WEBVTT - #103 Jason Flom with Bobbie Jean Johnson 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.360 Bobby Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.880 and later molested while she was in foster care. She 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.719 ran away from that horrible situation and tried to survive 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.000 as a sex worker on the streets of New Orleans. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.440 In nineteen seventy seven, an antiquities dealer named Arthur Sampson 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.159 was found dead at his Saint Charles Avenue shop. He 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:23.919 had been shot once in the stomach with a thirty 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.240 two caliber bullet and stabbed over one hundred times. The 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.560 store was ransacked and safe was missing about two thousand dollars. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.559 A month after the murder, Bobby Jean was writing in 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.239 what she did not know at the time was a 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.720 stolen car with two men. When they were pulled over 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.239 by the police for a traffic violation. One of the 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.760 men stashed a knife and a thirty two caliber revolver 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:47.120 in Bobby Jean's purse. At eighteen years old, Bobby Jean 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.120 Johnson was brought in for a violent interrogation that would 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.760 change the course of her already tragic and vulnerable life. 0:00:54.600 --> 0:01:08.200 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction today. 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.920 I have a guest who is one of the most 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.759 extraordinary people with one of the most insane stories that 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:23.000 I've ever heard. And she's also just a beautiful, beautiful person. So, 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:28.040 Bobby Jean Johnson, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. As I always say, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.040 I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you're here and 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.840 everyone will find out why. And with her is Kat Forrester, 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.360 who is the communications director for the Unists Project of 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.959 New Orleans, also known as IPNO. And Kat, welcome to 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:41.800 Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:43.080 Thanks so much, happy to be here. 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:49.279 So Bobby Jean was freed from prison twenty eighteen after 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.640 serving forty one years in prison for a crime she 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:57.280 didn't commit. And this case has so many of the 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:02.320 hallmarks of the causes of wrongfulctions that you know, it's 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.640 almost a clean sweep, so to speak. I mean, there 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.120 was misconduct, there was a false confession that you were 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.760 tortured into making, incompetent defense, it's not even that's not 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:13.720 even strong enough of a word. And we're going to 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.639 get into that all of that. But we're talking about 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:17.920 the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, and this is an 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.120 extremely violent crime. This was a white man who was 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:25.160 an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who was shot and 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:29.400 stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's a vicious, vicious crime. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.079 And just to paint a picture for people who are listening, 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:32.760 how tall are you? 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:34.000 I'm five feet tall. 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.440 You're five feet tall, and you're not a big one. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.520 I wasn't that big at the time. I was like 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.639 ninety eight pounds, like and I will size zero pains. 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.120 I could google my clothes out the children's section. 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:48.080 So the whole thing makes no sense just on a 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:52.400 purely physical level. And mister Sampson, I mean, nobody deserves 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:54.440 to die like he did. But he was a sort 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.120 of a dicey character anyway. Right, he was known for 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.360 bringing sex workers to his home, which is one of 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.120 the reasons why the logical suspect would have been this 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.080 woman who was a sex worker, who was the last 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.240 person to see him alive. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.239 Yeah, she was the last person he was seen with 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:10.040 by anyone. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.920 Right, So usually, you know, we all watch those crime 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.760 shows on TV, you know, you go down that path 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.000 at least take a look, you know, but that's not 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.680 what happened. What year was this by me? 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.079 In nineteen seventy seven? 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:24.600 You were an eighteen year old girl. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:25.519 Yeah, at the time. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.800 So what was going on? You were living in New 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:28.600 Orleans at the time. 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.200 Yeah, and I was like on drugs and stuff. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:32.200 Right. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.520 So one night we was riding in a call. It 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.720 was me and two other dudes were riding a call 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.119 in the cops. The police stoptors for a traffic violation. 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:44.360 Were you were you driving? 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:48.000 No? I wasn't driving right. And at the time when 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.320 the police stopped us, one of the dudes that was 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.840 in the call with me thro the knife in a 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.040 gun in my person. So wouldn't book because I know 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:56.800 I didn't have no knife and gun in my purse. 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:59.920 So when the police pulled all my stuff out my person, 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:01.960 he said, oh, we got a knife and a gun. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.040 I said, that is not for me. But they took 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.360 us to Homoicide Division and they put us in different 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.280 rooms and kept questions and I wasn't questions and I 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:12.800 kept telling him I don't know nothing about it. I 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:14.240 don't even know what his place is at. And I 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.400 heard his man and so one of the dudes, the 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:20.039 dude they put the gun in it, and I didn't 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.080 make a statement. Is said, when y'all stopped this, I 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.400 put that knife in that gun and Bibi. Jeez, that's 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.279 not whos I did that, and he made a statement. 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:28.560 They just ignored a statement. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.240 I mean, Kat, do you think they knew at the 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.160 time that they had the wrong person, but they just 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.039 wanted to clean up the case and that was what 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.000 was really going on. Yeah, I think so. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.320 I mean, I think they had a pretty viable suspect 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.479 and they didn't follow any of the leads in that 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:46.480 other suspects case. And I think that so often, particularly 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.440 you know, back in the seventies, eighties, nineties in New Orleans, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.039 particularly with black folks. I think that they, you know, 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.400 the cops got tunnel vision and you know, when they 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.000 found somebody and it seemed easy enough to pin it 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.760 on that person, you know, even if all the evidence 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.320 in the world pointed to someone else. So often they 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:10.280 just got tunnel vision and focused on one person and 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.640 you know, force their theory of the case to fit 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:15.040 to that person. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.920 So they knew, they knew that this guy had come 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.320 forward who admitted that he had a classy guy. By 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.599 the way the cops coming, he's putting his knife and 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.560 he's gun in your purse. I mean, that's a hell 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.520 of a thing. And when you were arrested, and if 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.920 you're okay even talking about it, I mean, what I've 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.200 read about the interrogation that you went through this is 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.240 like something out of a you know, a bad movie, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.440 or out of the torture that you read about in 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.559 a foreign country or abu grabe, you know, or something 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.760 like that. But I mean, you went to the police 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:44.760 station and what happened. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.520 And then they put us in separate rooms. And they 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.960 kept throwing pictures in front me and they say, this 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:52.880 is him him. I said, well, I've never. 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.599 Seen that man before, the dead guy. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.680 Ye had a dead man all the samson and then 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.479 one in my face. He said, no, let's take her 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.440 to the other room. So when they took me to 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.480 the other room, they still was asking me. So when 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:09.520 I kept saying I don't know. I can't tell you nothing. 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:11.120 I don't know, he said, oh, you're gonna know, and 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.760 he called me a black bee and he put my hand, 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.520 got me to the back behind his like wooden chair, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.279 and put a plastic bag over my head. The chair 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.760 fell backwards and they started kicking me in my ribs 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.120 and all over and hit me, and he kept saying, 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.200 black b Yeah, you're gonna tell us because we know 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.240 you know, we know you know, he said, because let 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.400 me tell you, he said, ain't number of police officers 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.880 in this in the station right here, and we could 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.080 kill you and your family would never know nothing about you. 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.240 So I'm scattered at that, and so he said, come on, 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:41.839 we're going back in there by the time, he said, 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:43.200 and you're gonna put it on and if you don't, 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.440 you'll get some more. And I was scattered that I 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.719 was crying and everything. I had five police officers standing 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.359 up behind me and one sitting down who had the 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.400 tape recorder and he said, now you ready, I said, 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:56.520 I I don't know now he said. He turned the 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:58.800 tape off and he said, you're gonna repeat what I say. 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:00.000 He turned the tape of corder. 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.039 Yeah, and sold mad. So I was so scared. I 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.320 did everything they was telling me to put on. But 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.600 it was a lie. I did it because I was scared. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.600 Well, yeah, you had a very good reason to be scared. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.920 I mean, that was hurting everywhere, and even after the 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:20.920 JF fell back with they was kicking me in my 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:21.960 ribs and everything. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.040 It was horrible, and Jason, I just wanted to say that, 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.200 like the world had not been kind to Bobby Jean 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:33.000 before this all happened. You know, she had had a 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.120 really tough up upbringing, and it makes so much sense 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.040 that she would do anything to kind of survive, right this, 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.760 this brutal police interrogation and beating. 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:44.680 Thank you, Bobby Geen. 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.600 Yeah, I just feel like the world had not been 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.720 kind to her, had not offered her a lot of hope. 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.080 And I, you know, I think. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.960 Because I was I was given away when my mama 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.760 had me and I had to go home like that. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.520 It was like I was scaring the whole world of 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.360 my shoulders. So I just got out there and I 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.640 just wanted somebody to love me, and I just wanted 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.920 to be accepting itself. So whatever it took for me 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:15.960 to do that, I did it. 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.920 And she was she was a young a young girl, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.160 as you keep kind of pointing out, you know, who 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:29.760 was doing the best she could with what she had. 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.360 And then and then this thing happened to her, right. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:41.720 Yeah, then this thing happened. This is you know, there's 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.480 been too many of these cases where we've learned that 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.480 the officers have threatened to kill the person unless they confess. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.600 Johnny and caapier is one thing of viyegas in Texas. 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.000 There's too many of these. And you know, Johnny says 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.560 to me, he was on the podcast and he said, 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.079 ask me, why would I confess? And he was eighteen, 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.560 like you were, and he says, why wouldn't I confess? 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.640 He goes, I wanted to live? You know what I want? 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:10.400 I just want I want to be if I was. 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.400 A young girl eighteen. You're really more of a child 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:15.600 than a woman. I mean at that point, you know, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.199 I mean, we know that the adolescent brain doesn't fully 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.040 develop until you're twenty five. And here you are not 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.000 just a young girl, but a little girl, right, ninety 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.400 eight pounds, like you said, in a room full of big, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.400 tough guys who you would want to think are going 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.640 to protect you, right, And in fact they're threatening in 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.439 a very real way. Right. It's not like it doesn't 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.120 sound like an empty threat when they're putting a plastic 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.480 bag over her and beating you and kicking you. I mean, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.240 so I don't think there's any question. And I think 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.839 it's so important that you're here, and I really appreciate you. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:46.679 I know it's difficult for you. I can see how 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.080 difficult it is. But it's so important for the public 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:54.640 to understand that these false confessions happen for a variety 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.400 of reasons. Not everybody's tortured, but a lot of people 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:02.760 are psychologically coerced, or they're or they're you know, confused. 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.280 So yeah, in your situation, I don't think anyone would 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.640 probably behave any differently than you did. But then what 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.040 a difficult thing to live with too, because knowing as 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:11.800 you're going to prison for the rest of your life 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.600 that you are in a certain way responsible because you know, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.040 you admitted something that you didn't do. But her confession 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.760 didn't match the facts of the case anyway. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.880 No, she I mean she got a lot of it wrong. 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:31.840 I mean she didn't get much of it right actually, 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.320 and that's also a typical thing in these false confession cases. 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.079 After torturing her for hours, the police were able to 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:45.360 extract the taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies. According 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.559 to that false confession, Bobby Gene and a woman named 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.520 Kimberly Leagun had met Samson in the French Quarter. Legun 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.040 solicited him for sex. Then when he brought them back 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.920 to his store and again back to the false narrative 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.440 that she created just to make the torture stop. She 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.240 said Bobby herself got him once in the chest and 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.600 once in the head, and then her friend Legan stabbed 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.480 him over one hundred times. Then they robbed his store 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.920 and sped off in a stolen Pontiac Graham Prix. Now 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.320 for the actual facts, Arthur Sampson was shot only once 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.160 in the stomach, Bobby Jean described Sampson as being twenty 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.160 years younger and a half foot taller than he was. 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.640 And lastly, the Pontiac Grand Prix would not have made 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.160 a good getaway car, as it was not stolen until 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.679 hours after the murder. The man who had stashed a 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.680 thirty two caliber Revolver a Knight for her person had 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.800 made a statement admitting to just that, but that fact 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.160 was inconvenient to the prosecution's narrative and was therefore hidden 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.319 from the defense. All of this could have been brought 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.920 up during trial if Bobby Jean had adequate counsel. However, 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.480 with no family and no backup whatsoever, Bobby Jean didn't 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:49.040 have a chance in help. Now you're taking to jail, Yeah, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.160 how long did you have to wait? For your trial 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.480 eighteen months, eighteen months in jail. Yeah, and I know 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.080 how bad that must have been, because jail's, I mean, 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:04.439 anywhere were terrible, but in New Orleans it's infamous. It is. Yeah, 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.680 your trial was. It was like a combination of a 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.040 bad dream and a bad joke. It was because the 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.400 people who are supposed to be defending you did nothing 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.640 of the sort. Yeap, And can you talk about that? Yeah? 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.719 I can. Doing my trial, my lawyer wouldn't let me 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.800 get onder standing and talking my own defense. He fell 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.040 asleep drough the trial. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:29.640 Your lawyer was asleep, Yeah. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.160 He fell asleep during the I had to wake him up. 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.520 And he didn't do no opening statements. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.280 No opening statement, and no clue in statements. 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.559 And one of the jurors stood up in state totally 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.360 d I cannot give miss Johnson a fair trial because 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.520 I had a relationship with this man. The judge said, 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:52.080 be seated with the victim. Yeah, and he And now 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:53.800 I know because when I was in prison, I took 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.800 fair leave and I graduated from it. But my lawyer 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.240 should have called a mistrial when that jurors stood up 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.040 and he didn't say not a word, and. 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.320 The judge said, just let's let's please proceed. 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.600 I mean, I've I've been doing this work for over 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.240 twenty five years, and I've heard a lot of stories. 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:12.840 I've never heard that before. I mean, I've heard stories 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:14.480 of yourors that had but I never heard a duror 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:15.319 actually stand up in. 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.400 A mid She she raised a hand and she said, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.880 I can I get this lady at petrial because I 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.280 had a relationship with mister. 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:27.800 Samson, and so your lawyer was asleep, You're waking him up. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:29.960 He made no opening statement, he made no closing statement, 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.920 and he didn't object to the last didn't call him 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:35.400 miss trial. 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.959 He made one objection throughout the trial to the admission 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.200 of a photograph. He asked a total of eight cross 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.920 examination questions, the majority of which dealt with the ballistics 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.840 of the gun. No opening and no closing, and he 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.240 presented no case theory. 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.679 He essentially did nothing except. 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:53.960 Jake a nap and sid do. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.319 Yeah. I mean, he didn't defend you so much as 0:13:58.400 --> 0:13:59.280 process you. 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.440 Right when I was in jail, when they occurring him 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.280 to me, he never came seeing me. The only time 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.440 I seen him was at court and sometimes when they 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.840 would have court dates. For me, but he wouldn't be there, 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.200 so they would postpone it to another day. 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:14.480 Oh so that's why I took eighteen months to get 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.160 to trial. Yeah, because he wouldn't show up. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:16.920 He wouldn't show up. 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.720 Did at any point did you request a different lawyer? 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:20.720 Did you even know that you? 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:22.680 I didn't know. I was young and I didn't know, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:24.360 and you probably. 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.440 I mean, I would think in that situation, you know 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.760 nothing about the law, right, And I would think again 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.840 in that situation, that you would be worried if you 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.720 did request, Well, then you're going to upset the only 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.400 guy who's on your side right now. Did you have 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.880 any family in the courtroom with you or anything like that? No, nobody, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.400 just you all alone. Yeah, Jesus Christ. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.120 Took them less than an hour to come back with 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:46.960 a guilty verdict. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:58.520 Yeah. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.360 So when I got there, so at first I wasn't 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.680 because I was angry. I was angry and I was hurt. 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.320 That's when I was starting I started fighting, and all 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.040 this it didn't matter no more because I had at 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.920 It was like, well, Baptigi, you got a life sentence. 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:15.200 Now, it's nothing you could do. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:16.840 You're going to die in this prison. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.720 But then I started praying and praying and praying. And 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.680 one of the last fight I had, I remember, I 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.640 was in that cell. I just fell to my knees 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.360 and I said, God, just take my life. I'm I'm 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.520 tired of living like this. Take my life and do 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.800 what you want to do with it. And from that 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.240 day to this one, I ain't been the same. I 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:39.040 grew up, I got more mature, and I did everything. 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:43.960 I could do. Was they was offering the GED. So 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:45.560 I know I had been out of school a few 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.000 months and stuff, and I got in this trouble because 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:49.560 I know I was a small girl. I had just 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.320 I hadn't graduated. I dropped out at the eleventh grade. 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.000 And so I took the GED and I passed the GED. 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.520 It was giving grants off of introduction to business, payroll 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.320 accountant and pay league. First, I took the pay of 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:07.920 legal on and I passed with a full PARANORL yeah wow. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.160 And I studied hard or I studied hard because I 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.880 wanted it and I wanted I did everything I could 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.480 to rehabilitate myself in every kind of way. It was 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.320 nothing I didn't do positive in jail. I had fights 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.240 in jail because I was small, and they thought I 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.960 was scared of him, but I wasn't. And I had 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:31.600 fights with quite a few people. But I grew and 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:36.480 I matured. I did everything I know to do right. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.280 I was a law curder and all this in the prison. 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.520 When I got into the old the law library, I 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:44.320 started writing to. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.760 Everybody to try to help me. One day, my sister, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.800 theyd just sent me all your pavots I'm gonna bring 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.200 into Innocent project. And when I sent them all to it, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.280 they got them and they started working on my case immediately. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:16:59.760 Every two weeks they would be up there to see 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.200 week and they tell me how the case was going 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.560 on whatever. And then the day, oh, I went to 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.880 court on the seven. I didn't even know I had 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.560 a court or the deal. Oh, they said, Jen Johnson, 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:12.840 get ready, you got a court trip. 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.560 I said, a court trip? Downt y'all have never taken 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.600 me back to court, so I didn't know what was 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.800 going on. So I said okay, And when I got dressed, 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.160 they brought me to courthouse and all them was in the. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:28.200 Court room for me, all lawyers, yes, but all my 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.480 lawyers walked up with me to the podium when I 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.000 had to do the plea and everything. 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.520 For many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.240 and the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.560 Bobby Jane's case, investigating leads, studying the evidence, and identifying 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.560 the inconsistencies in her violently coursed false confession to eventually 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.080 force the District Attorney's office to offer a plea deal. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.200 The deal was this, her first degree murder conviction and 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.359 life sentence would be vacated, but Bobby Jean had to 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.560 plead guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.280 be recent sentence to time served. Her attorneys also had 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.679 to drop any claims that the DA's office did not 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.720 turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome the 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.199 Day or anyone who cared about Bobby jan had hoped for, 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.240 but it was the only one that would set her free. 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.639 It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.000 case is the fact that even after all these years, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.280 and even after it's been proven that you had nothing 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:33.120 to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake, 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.360 right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.879 to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.400 the DA's office in New Orleans forced you to take 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.720 a plea just to sort. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.080 Of could be free, as that was the only way 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.080 say you take this, flee or you stay in prison. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.840 Right, I think anybody would do what you did. And 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.359 kat I want you to jump in here anytime, because 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.119 I know you're intimately familiar with this case, and I 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.440 know how proud you are of the work that as 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.920 I am as a supporter of Innis's Project New Orleans, 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:05.399 I'm so proud of the work that they did, and 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.159 I'm so happy. I mean, I saw those pictures and 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.160 I posted on my Instagram, which is at It's Jason 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.480 Flamm as people know, but I posted the pictures of 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.520 Bobby Jean walking out of prison that day, and I 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.240 just my heart was breaking or floating. I was breaking. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.200 My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air, 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.800 and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.520 some light on this cat because this case is bizarre 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:28.520 even by our standards. 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.920 Yeah, absolutely so. It was a case that we worked 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.879 on for several years. One of the attorneys in our office, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:36.960 Schrell Arnold, worked on it for a long time, and 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:41.520 it ended up being the Promise of Justice Initiative, an 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.359