Speaker 1: Bobby Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth
Speaker 1: and later molested while she was in foster care. She
Speaker 1: ran away from that horrible situation and tried to survive
Speaker 1: as a sex worker on the streets of New Orleans.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy seven, an antiquities dealer named Arthur Sampson
Speaker 1: was found dead at his Saint Charles Avenue shop. He
Speaker 1: had been shot once in the stomach with a thirty
Speaker 1: two caliber bullet, had stabbed over one hundred times. The
Speaker 1: store was ransacked and safe was missing about two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: A month after the murder, Bobby Jean was writing and
Speaker 1: what she did not know at the time was a
Speaker 1: stolen car with two men. When they were pulled over
Speaker 1: by the police for a traffic violation. One of the
Speaker 1: men stashed a knife, a thirty two caliber revolver, and
Speaker 1: Bobby Jean's purse. At eighteen years old, Bobby Jeane Johnson
Speaker 1: was brought in for a violent interrogation that would change
Speaker 1: the course of her already tragic and vulnerable life. This
Speaker 1: is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction today. I
Speaker 1: have a guest who is um one of the most
Speaker 1: extraordinary people with one of the most insane stories that
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. And she's also just a beautiful, beautiful person. Um. So,
Speaker 1: Bobby Jean Johnson, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. As I always say,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you're here and
Speaker 1: everyone will find out why. Um And with her is
Speaker 1: Kat Forrester, who is the communications director for the Instance
Speaker 1: Project of New Orleans, also known as Hypno and Cat.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. Thanks so much, happy to be here. So,
Speaker 1: Bobby Jean was freed from prison two thousand eighteen after
Speaker 1: serving forty one years in prison for a crime she
Speaker 1: didn't commit. And this case has so many of the
Speaker 1: hallmarks of the causes of wrongful victions that you know,
Speaker 1: it's almost a clean sweep, so to speak. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was misconduct, there was a false confession that you
Speaker 1: were tortured into making. Incompetent defense. It's not even that's
Speaker 1: not even strong enough of a word. And we're going
Speaker 1: to get into that all of that. But we're talking
Speaker 1: about the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, And this is
Speaker 1: an extremely violent crime. This was a white man who
Speaker 1: was an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who was shot
Speaker 1: and stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's a vicious,
Speaker 1: vicious crime. And just to paint a picture for people
Speaker 1: who are listening, how tall are you? You're five feet tall,
Speaker 1: and you're not a big one. Wasn't that big at
Speaker 1: the time. I was like ninety eight pounds, like and
Speaker 1: I wall size zero paints. I could go with my
Speaker 1: clothes out the children's section. So the whole thing makes
Speaker 1: no sense just on a purely physical level. And Mr Sampson,
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody deserves to die like he did. But
Speaker 1: he was a sort of a dicey character anyway. Right.
Speaker 1: He was known for bringing sex workers to his home,
Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why the logical suspect
Speaker 1: would have been this woman who was a sex worker
Speaker 1: who was the last person to see him alive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was the last person he was seen with by anyone. Right,
Speaker 1: So usually you know, we all watched those crime shows
Speaker 1: on TV, you know, you go down that path at
Speaker 1: least take a look, you know, but that's not what happened. Um,
Speaker 1: what year was this by you were an eighteen year
Speaker 1: old girl, yeah at the time, so what was going on?
Speaker 1: You were living in New Orleans at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was like on drugs and stuff, right. So
Speaker 1: one night we was riding in a call. It was
Speaker 1: me and two other dudes were running call and the cops,
Speaker 1: the police stopts for traffic of valation. Were you driving? No?
Speaker 1: I wasn't driving all right. And at the time when
Speaker 1: the police stopped us, that wanted the dudes that was
Speaker 1: in the call with me, do the knife in a
Speaker 1: gun in my person? So wouldn't because I know I
Speaker 1: didn't have no knife and gun in my purse. So
Speaker 1: when the police pulled all my stuff about my person,
Speaker 1: he said, oh, we got a knife and the gun.
Speaker 1: I said that it's not for me. But on they
Speaker 1: took us to homotide On Division and they put us
Speaker 1: in different rooms and kept question and I was in
Speaker 1: questions and I kept tell him I don't know nothing
Speaker 1: about I don't even know what his place is at.
Speaker 1: And I heard this man and so I wanted the
Speaker 1: dudes to do they put the gun in and I
Speaker 1: didn't make a statement and said, app when y'all stopped this,
Speaker 1: I put that knife in the gun. And Bob jeans,
Speaker 1: that's not hos I did it. And he made a statement,
Speaker 1: they just ignored a statement. I mean, cat, do you
Speaker 1: think they knew at the time that they had the
Speaker 1: wrong person, but they just wanted to clean up the
Speaker 1: case and that was what was really going on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, I think they had a
Speaker 1: pretty viable suspect and they didn't follow any of the
Speaker 1: leads and that other suspects case. UM. And I think
Speaker 1: that so often, particularly you know, back in the seventies, eighties,
Speaker 1: nineties in New Orleans. UM, particularly with black folks. I
Speaker 1: think that they, you know, the cops got tunnel vision
Speaker 1: and you know, when they found somebody and it seemed
Speaker 1: easy enough to pin it on that person, you know,
Speaker 1: even if all the evidence in the world pointed to
Speaker 1: someone else. So often they just got tunnel vision and
Speaker 1: um focused on one person and you know, force their
Speaker 1: theory of the case to fit to that person. So
Speaker 1: they knew, they knew that this guy had come forward
Speaker 1: who admitted that he had a classy guy. By the way,
Speaker 1: it's a cops coming. He's putting his his knife and
Speaker 1: he's going to be your purse. I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: hell of a thing. And when you were arrested and
Speaker 1: if you're okay, even talking about it. I mean what
Speaker 1: I've read about the interrogation that you went through, this
Speaker 1: is like something out of you know, a bad movie,
Speaker 1: or out of the torture that you read about in
Speaker 1: in a foreign country or Abu grab, you know, something
Speaker 1: like that. But I mean you went to the police
Speaker 1: station and what happened, and then they put it in
Speaker 1: separate rooms, and uh they kept throwing pictures in front
Speaker 1: me and they say, uses him him. I said, well,
Speaker 1: I've never seen that man before, the dead guy. You
Speaker 1: had a dead man all the samson and then uh
Speaker 1: one he had me in my face. He said, no,
Speaker 1: listake or to the other room. So when they took
Speaker 1: me to the other room, they still was asking me.
Speaker 1: So when I kept saying I don't know. I can't
Speaker 1: tell you nothing. I don't know, he said, oh, you're
Speaker 1: gonna know, and he called me a black bee and
Speaker 1: he put my hand, got me to the back behind
Speaker 1: his like wooden chair and put a plastic bag over
Speaker 1: my head. The chair fell back and they started kicking
Speaker 1: me in my ribs and all over and hit me.
Speaker 1: And he kept saying, black bee, Yeah, you're gonna tell
Speaker 1: us because we know, you know, we know you know
Speaker 1: he's said, because let me tell you, he said, ain't
Speaker 1: number of police officers in this in the station right here,
Speaker 1: and we could kill you and your family would never
Speaker 1: know nothing about you. So I'm scared to that. And
Speaker 1: so he said, come on, we're going bagging there by
Speaker 1: the time, he said, you're gonna put on and if
Speaker 1: you don't, you get some more. And I was scared
Speaker 1: of that. I was crying and everything. I had five
Speaker 1: police officers standing up behind me and one sitting down
Speaker 1: who had the table carter and um, he said, now
Speaker 1: you're ready, I said, I haint, I don't know that
Speaker 1: he said. He turned the tape off and he said,
Speaker 1: you're gonna repeat what I said, yeah, until minute. So
Speaker 1: I was so scared. I did everything that was telling
Speaker 1: me to put on put on, but it was a lie.
Speaker 1: I did it because I was scared. Well, yeah, you
Speaker 1: had a very good reason to be scared. I mean
Speaker 1: that was certain everywhere and even after the j F
Speaker 1: fail back with they was kicking me in my rooms
Speaker 1: and everything. It was horrible and Jason, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to say that, like the world had not been kind
Speaker 1: to Bobby Jean before this all happened. You know, she
Speaker 1: had had a really tough up upbringing, and it makes
Speaker 1: so much sense that she would do anything to kind
Speaker 1: of survive, right this, this brutal police interrogation and beating.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bobby. Um. Yeah, I just feel like the
Speaker 1: world had not been kind to her, had not offered
Speaker 1: her a lot of hope. Um. And I you know,
Speaker 1: I think because I was I was given away with
Speaker 1: my mama had me and I had to go on
Speaker 1: like that. It was like I was scared, Oh world,
Speaker 1: am I shoulder? So I just got out there and
Speaker 1: I just wanted about it. Loved me and I just
Speaker 1: wanted to be accepting and stuff. So whenever it took
Speaker 1: for me to do that, I did it. And she
Speaker 1: was she was a young a young girl, as you
Speaker 1: keep kind of pointing out, you know, who was doing
Speaker 1: the best she could with what she had. Um. And
Speaker 1: then and then this thing happened to her, right yeah,
Speaker 1: then this thing happened. This is you know, there's been
Speaker 1: too many of these cases where we've learned that the
Speaker 1: officers have threatened to kill the person unless they confess.
Speaker 1: Johnny and CAPI A is one thing of a year,
Speaker 1: I guess in Texas. There's too many of these. And
Speaker 1: you know, Johnny says to me, he was on the
Speaker 1: podcast and he said, um, he ask me, why would
Speaker 1: I confess? And he was eighteen like you were, And uh,
Speaker 1: he says, why wouldn't I confess? He goes, I wanted
Speaker 1: to live? You know what I want? I just want
Speaker 1: I wanted to live. I was a young girl eighteen.
Speaker 1: You're really more of a child than a woman. I
Speaker 1: mean at that point, you know, I mean, we know
Speaker 1: that the adolescent brain doesn't fully develop until you and
Speaker 1: here you are not just a younger but a little girl,
Speaker 1: right um pounds like you said, in a room full
Speaker 1: of big, tough guys who you would want to think
Speaker 1: are gonna protect you, right, um. And in fact, they're
Speaker 1: threatening in a very real way. Right. It's not like
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like an empty threat when they're putting
Speaker 1: a plastic bag over and beating you and kicking you.
Speaker 1: I mean, so, I don't think there's any question. And
Speaker 1: I think it's so important that you're here, and I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you. I know it's difficult for you. I
Speaker 1: can see how difficult it is, but it's so important
Speaker 1: for the public to understand that these false confessions happen
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. Not everybody's tortured, but a
Speaker 1: lot of people are psychologically coerced or their trad or
Speaker 1: they're you know, confused. So yeah, in your situation, I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone would probably behave any differently than you did.
Speaker 1: But then what a difficult thing to live with. Two
Speaker 1: Because knowing as you're going to prison for the rest
Speaker 1: of your life that you are in a certain way
Speaker 1: responsible because you you know, you admitted something that you
Speaker 1: didn't do. But but her confession didn't match the facts
Speaker 1: of the case anyway. No, she I mean she got
Speaker 1: a lot of of it wrong. Um, I mean she
Speaker 1: didn't get much of it right actually, And that's also
Speaker 1: a typical thing in these false confession cases. After torturing
Speaker 1: her for hours, the police were able to extract the
Speaker 1: taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies. According to that
Speaker 1: false confession, Bobby Jeane and a woman named Kimberly Legan
Speaker 1: had met Sampson in the French Quarter. Legan solicited him
Speaker 1: for sex, then when he brought them back to his store,
Speaker 1: and again back to the false narrative that she created
Speaker 1: just to make the torture stop. She said, Bobby herself
Speaker 1: at him once in the chest and once in the head,
Speaker 1: and then her friend Legan stabbed him over one hundred times.
Speaker 1: Then they robbed his store and sped off in a
Speaker 1: stolen Pontiac grhand Prix. Now for the actual facts, Arthur
Speaker 1: Sampson was shot only once in the stomach. Bobby Jean
Speaker 1: described Sampson as being twenty years younger and a half
Speaker 1: foot taller than he was. And lastly, the Pontiac grhand
Speaker 1: Prix would not have made a good getaway car, as
Speaker 1: it was not stolen until hours after the murder. The
Speaker 1: man who had stashed the thirty two caliber revolver and
Speaker 1: knife her person made a statement admitting to just that,
Speaker 1: but that fact was inconvenient to the prosecution's narrative and
Speaker 1: was therefore hidden from the defense. All of this could
Speaker 1: have been brought up during trial if Bobby Jean had
Speaker 1: adequate counsel. However, with no family and no backup whatsoever,
Speaker 1: Bobby Jean didn't have a chance in help. Now you're
Speaker 1: taking to jail. How long did you have to wait
Speaker 1: for your trial? Eighteen months? Eighteen months in jail? And
Speaker 1: I know how bad that must have been, because jails,
Speaker 1: I mean, anywhere terrible, but in New Orleans. Um, it's infamous,
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, your trial was. Um, it was like
Speaker 1: the combination of a bad dream and a bad joke
Speaker 1: because the people who were supposed to be defending you
Speaker 1: did nothing of the sort. And can you talk about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah again, Um doing my trial, Um, my lawyer wouldn't
Speaker 1: let me get understanding and talking my own defense. He
Speaker 1: fell asleep through the trial. The lawyer was asleep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he fell asleep on the trial. I had to wake
Speaker 1: him up. And he didn't do no opening um statements,
Speaker 1: no opening statements, and no clue was in statements. And um.
Speaker 1: One of the jewels stood up and state told the Joys,
Speaker 1: I cannot give miss Johnson a fair trial because I
Speaker 1: had a relationship with this man. The judic said, be
Speaker 1: seated with the victim. Yeah, and he Um, Now I
Speaker 1: know because when I was in prison, I took fairly
Speaker 1: and I graduated from it. But my lawyers should have
Speaker 1: called a mistrial. When that Jews stood up and he
Speaker 1: didn't say not a wound, and the judge said, just
Speaker 1: let's let's please proceed. I mean I've been doing this
Speaker 1: work for over twenty five years, and I've heard a
Speaker 1: lot of stories. I've never heard that before. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've heard stories of yours that had but I never
Speaker 1: heard a juror actually stand up and admit to you.
Speaker 1: She raised her hand and she said, yeah, can I
Speaker 1: get this lady a bit trial? Because I had a
Speaker 1: relationship with Mr Samson, and so your lawyer was asleep,
Speaker 1: you're waking him up. He made no opening statement, he
Speaker 1: made no closing statement, and he didn't object didn't call
Speaker 1: him miss trial. He made one objection throughout the trial,
Speaker 1: to the admission of a photograph um. He has a
Speaker 1: total of eight cross examination questions, the majority of which
Speaker 1: dealt with the ballistics of the gun. No opening and
Speaker 1: no closing, and he presented no case theory. He essentially
Speaker 1: did nothing except Jake and ned. Yeah. I mean, he
Speaker 1: didn't defend you so much as process you. Right when
Speaker 1: I was in jail, when they appeared him to me,
Speaker 1: he never came seeing me. Only time I seen him
Speaker 1: was at court and sometimes when they would have court
Speaker 1: days for me, but he wouldn't be there, so they
Speaker 1: would postpone it so another day. Oh so that's why
Speaker 1: I took eighteen months again to trial because he wouldn't
Speaker 1: show up. He wouldn't show up. Did at any point
Speaker 1: did you request a different lawyer? Did you even know
Speaker 1: that you? I didn't know. I was young and I
Speaker 1: didn't know, and you probably. I mean, I would think
Speaker 1: in that situation, you know nothing about alone, right And
Speaker 1: I would think again in that situation that you would
Speaker 1: be worried if you did request when then you can
Speaker 1: upset the only guy who's on your side right now?
Speaker 1: Did you have any family in the courtroom with you
Speaker 1: or anything like that? Nobody? Did you? All alone? Jesus
Speaker 1: Christ took them less than an hour to come back
Speaker 1: with a guilty verdict. Yeah. So when I got there,
Speaker 1: at first, I wasn't because I was angry. I was
Speaker 1: angry and I was hurt because when I was I
Speaker 1: started fighting all this it didn't matter no more because
Speaker 1: I had it was like, well, Baptine, you got a
Speaker 1: life sentence, now, it's nothing you could do. You to
Speaker 1: go on to die in this prison. But then I
Speaker 1: started praying and praying and praying and won't. The last
Speaker 1: fight I had, I remember, I was in the cell.
Speaker 1: I just felt to my knees and I said, God,
Speaker 1: just take my life. I'm I'm tired of living like this.
Speaker 1: Take my life and do what you want to do
Speaker 1: with it. And from that data this was I ain't
Speaker 1: been the same. I grew up, I got more mature,
Speaker 1: and I did everything I could do. They was they
Speaker 1: was offering on the g D. So I know I
Speaker 1: had been on the school a few months and stuff,
Speaker 1: and I got in this trouble because I know I
Speaker 1: was a small girl. I had just I hadn't graduated.
Speaker 1: I dropped out at the eleventh grade. And um, so
Speaker 1: I took the g D and I passed the g D.
Speaker 1: It was giving grand self for introduction in the business
Speaker 1: payroll accountant and pay league. First I took the pair
Speaker 1: or legal one and I passed with a four partower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I studied hard or I started hard because I
Speaker 1: wanted it and I wanted I did everything I could
Speaker 1: to rehabilitate myself in every kind of way. It was
Speaker 1: nothing I didn't do positive in jail. I had fights
Speaker 1: in jail because I was small, and they thought I
Speaker 1: was scared of it, but I wasn't. And I had
Speaker 1: fights with quite a few people. But I grew and amateure.
Speaker 1: I did everything I know to do right. I was
Speaker 1: a law curtin and all this in the prison. When
Speaker 1: I got into the oh, the lord librry, I started
Speaker 1: writing to everybody to try to help me. One day
Speaker 1: my sister said, just sent me all your pavoits and
Speaker 1: my British Innocent Project. And when I sent them all
Speaker 1: to it, they got him and they started working on
Speaker 1: my case immediately. Every two weeks they would be update
Speaker 1: to see me and it tell me how the case
Speaker 1: was going on. And then the day oh, I went
Speaker 1: to quote on the sailing. I didn't even know I
Speaker 1: had a quote on the day. Oh, it's it's if
Speaker 1: having to get ready. You got a culture, I said,
Speaker 1: a court rebound. You all. I have never taken me
Speaker 1: back to court, so I didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 1: So I said, okay. When I got drissed, it brought
Speaker 1: me to call house and all my all Liam was
Speaker 1: in the court room for me. A lawyers, yes, but
Speaker 1: all my lawyers walked up with me to the podium
Speaker 1: when I had to do the bleed in everything for
Speaker 1: many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative and
Speaker 1: the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on Bobby
Speaker 1: Jeane's case, investigating leads, studying the evidence, and identifying the
Speaker 1: inconsistencies in her violently courced false confession to eventually force
Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office to offer a plea deal. The
Speaker 1: deal was this her first degree murder conviction and life
Speaker 1: sentence would be vacated, but Bobby Jean had to plead
Speaker 1: guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to be
Speaker 1: re sentence to time served. Her attorneys also had to
Speaker 1: drop any claims that the d a's office did not
Speaker 1: turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome that
Speaker 1: day or anyone who cared about Bobby Jean had hoped for,
Speaker 1: but it was the only one that would set her free.
Speaker 1: It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this
Speaker 1: case is the fact that even after all these years,
Speaker 1: and even after it's been proven that you had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake,
Speaker 1: right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want
Speaker 1: to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So
Speaker 1: the d A's office in New Orleans forced you to
Speaker 1: take a plea just to sort of could be free,
Speaker 1: as that was the only way that you take this
Speaker 1: flee or you stay in for its right. I think
Speaker 1: anybody would do what you did. And and Cat, I
Speaker 1: want you to jump in here anytime, because I know
Speaker 1: you're intimately familiar with this case, and I know how
Speaker 1: proud you are of the work that as I am
Speaker 1: as a supporter of Innocence Project New Orleans, I'm so
Speaker 1: proud of the work that they did. And I'm so happy.
Speaker 1: I mean, I saw those pictures when and I posted
Speaker 1: on my Instagram, UM, which is at it's Jason Flam
Speaker 1: as people know, but I posted the pictures of Bobby
Speaker 1: Jean walking out of prison that day, and just my
Speaker 1: heart was breaking or or or floated. I was breaking,
Speaker 1: My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air,
Speaker 1: and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine
Speaker 1: some light on this, Cat, because this this case is
Speaker 1: bizarre even by our standards. Yeah. Absolutely so. It was
Speaker 1: a case that we worked on for for several years. UM.
Speaker 1: One of the attorneys in our office, Shrell Arnold, worked
Speaker 1: on it for a long time and it ended up
Speaker 1: being UM the Promise of Justice Initiative, incredible organization in
Speaker 1: New Orleans who ended up freeing Bobby Jean and walking
Speaker 1: her out of prison. But we were there because she was,
Speaker 1: you know, the first female client who we had really
Speaker 1: worked on her case for for for a long time
Speaker 1: and had a really good lead and and and part
Speaker 1: of that is because, as you know, Jason, I'm or
Speaker 1: you know, women aren't often sentenced to life in prison
Speaker 1: or long prison sentences, which is what HYPNO does is
Speaker 1: free innocent life sentence prisoners. UM. And and women so
Speaker 1: often are caught up in things that men do right there,
Speaker 1: or they harm or kill their domestic abusers. UM. And
Speaker 1: so this was you know, really exciting for us, I
Speaker 1: think because it was the first time that we'd worked
Speaker 1: with a woman, UM for a number of years. UM.
Speaker 1: And of course Bobby Cheen is just incredible, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think having her come home, UM, I actually came
Speaker 1: and hung out with her in Atlanta when she got home,
Speaker 1: and we went to the aquarium and UM started learning
Speaker 1: how to use a cell phone and as as I think,
Speaker 1: we showed you some pictures and UM, it was a
Speaker 1: really incredible moment. I you know, can't imagine being incarcerated
Speaker 1: for forty one years, no I mean, when you put
Speaker 1: that in context, that's I mean, you were only eighteen
Speaker 1: at the time, so that's twice as long as you
Speaker 1: had been alive, plus another five years. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's impossible, I think for anybody to comprehend who hasn't
Speaker 1: been through it. Jesus, who was president when you went
Speaker 1: to prison? I don't remember. I don't know Jimmy Carter
Speaker 1: was president. That's god. Yeah, I mean it's a low time.
Speaker 1: Most of the people who are listening to the show
Speaker 1: weren't born yet. Um, and everything was different. Um. And
Speaker 1: then you come out into a world where everybody's walking
Speaker 1: around typing on their phones, cross's going everywhere, like there's
Speaker 1: just everything is different. When I at my first phone
Speaker 1: in my hand, was like, oh my god. Kay. She
Speaker 1: had to show me everything, had to turn it on
Speaker 1: and everything. First thing she wanted was an Instagram account. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what is it? What is your Instagram account? I don't know.
Speaker 1: She doesn't know, Bobby. So you walk out, I mean,
Speaker 1: what what the difference? You? You go win as it's scared, brutalized,
Speaker 1: young nineteen twenty year old woman, but eighteen when you
Speaker 1: went to jail, um, and you come out as a
Speaker 1: an accomplished, mature, fifty nine year old woman. You walk
Speaker 1: out into a world that looks almost nothing like it
Speaker 1: did when you went in. Its New Orleans don't look
Speaker 1: nothing like it did when I went in. I mean
Speaker 1: I almost forgot the names of the streets. That's how
Speaker 1: definitely looked at me. Yeah. I had five five my
Speaker 1: lowers with me, and it was just, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it was a feeling I never had before. I used
Speaker 1: to pray every night, God, you might only witness and
Speaker 1: you know I didn't kill nobody, just open these doors
Speaker 1: and help me. Every night I prayed that in my room.
Speaker 1: It was so aw for me. Here we are at
Speaker 1: the Innocence Network conference. By the way, how about this conference, Bobby,
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Yeah. So we're here at the Innsence Never
Speaker 1: Conference with about two hundred exonrees and six hundred UM
Speaker 1: people activists, social workers, UM, civilians who want to get involved.
Speaker 1: Two of them are in the room with us right now. UM.
Speaker 1: We have lawyers here, we have experts on everything from
Speaker 1: you know, false confessions to uh, you name it, and
Speaker 1: uh it's an awesome, awesome thing. I mean, people are
Speaker 1: connecting and strategizing and coming up with best practices and
Speaker 1: helping each other. And yeah, I mean we have we
Speaker 1: have thirty five new Exonorees here that we're on stage
Speaker 1: last night saying and dancing and it was some crazy
Speaker 1: scene and it's amazing, including you. Yeah, yeah, I are
Speaker 1: you up there? How to feel to be up there?
Speaker 1: Bobby Jane? It was it feel good? It felt good
Speaker 1: for you to connect with the other axonorees. What is
Speaker 1: that experience like? It's just like because I just don't
Speaker 1: I said, I knowing it that many people there is
Speaker 1: both convincious and it made me feel good to know
Speaker 1: that I was. I was. I wasn't the only one.
Speaker 1: Oh no, hell no, but I didn't know it at
Speaker 1: the time. But it really feel good. And to know
Speaker 1: how much love this we show to each other. Mm hmm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we ain't done yet. We're gonna be loving on you
Speaker 1: for the well for the rest of the time, but
Speaker 1: especially the less next twenty four hours, and we're all
Speaker 1: gonna be here together. It's gonna be amazing. Um. And
Speaker 1: I know that people are are so glad that you're here.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, right, Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm so honored
Speaker 1: to be here and be a part of this movement. Um.
Speaker 1: I will tell anybody who's listening that, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I call it selfish altruism because I could cosider it
Speaker 1: a privilege and an honor to get to be around
Speaker 1: people like yourself and to be able to make some
Speaker 1: small difference is uh, you know, it's the most rewarding
Speaker 1: thing in my life. I mean, you know, obviously you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a father and that's a tremendously important thing to me.
Speaker 1: But beyond that, it's the most important work that I
Speaker 1: can imagine being involved with. And you're a living proof
Speaker 1: of it. And here we are celebrating you and celebrating
Speaker 1: freedom and working on getting the next people out. And
Speaker 1: and so now you're living in Georgia, in Georgia the
Speaker 1: cat and what gives you join? Now? Do you have
Speaker 1: any joy in your life now? I have to enjoy
Speaker 1: in my life now because it's like living where I live.
Speaker 1: I can come and go with exact please. Anybody could
Speaker 1: come get me and like take me wherever they want,
Speaker 1: seem like, if they want to take me out did
Speaker 1: or whatever, I could do it. And they have a
Speaker 1: lot of activities because I'm because I'm because of my age.
Speaker 1: They have a lot of activities for all and I
Speaker 1: always attended. They have the church service. I always attended
Speaker 1: and they treat me good. And what is it thing
Speaker 1: you do once a month, Bobby Jean, Oh, I'll go
Speaker 1: to George's Innocent Project. I'm a man of the George's
Speaker 1: Innocent Project and I never missed a meeting. I'm always there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They've really lovingly taken her into the agonary meetings that
Speaker 1: happened once a month there so she gets to hang
Speaker 1: out with other wrongfully incrstor to people who live in Georgia.
Speaker 1: I see you got the shirt on Georgia. You go,
Speaker 1: what did Geogia Innocent Project shirt? I say, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't have one for all if no where, I need
Speaker 1: to get you a justice shirt. I know I have
Speaker 1: a justice I think we can arrange that you got
Speaker 1: that one. I got it, Okay. Perfect teamwork makes the
Speaker 1: dream work. Um. So this is the part of the
Speaker 1: show that is my favorite part because this is the
Speaker 1: part of the show where I get to First of all,
Speaker 1: I thank you well, thank you for having me, Bobby,
Speaker 1: Geene Johnson and cat Forrester, thank you for coming and
Speaker 1: sh especially Bobby obviously Bobby Team, for I know how
Speaker 1: difficult it is to talk about these things, and it's
Speaker 1: so important that you're here. UM, So you know, thank
Speaker 1: you on behalf of me and all my listeners and
Speaker 1: everybody in the Innocence Network. And then this is the
Speaker 1: part where I get to stop talking, and UM, I
Speaker 1: turned it over to you two fabulous ladies for final
Speaker 1: closing thoughts. UM, and I think we should we should
Speaker 1: finish with you Bobby, because UM, I want to hear
Speaker 1: anything you have to say, any anything at all about
Speaker 1: any subject. But first, Cat, what what are your closing thoughts.
Speaker 1: I'm just so glad that we helped get her home.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about it because we're at the
Speaker 1: aquarium last night for the Innocence Network dinner, and we
Speaker 1: went to the aquarium right after she got out, and
Speaker 1: to see the joy on her face, you know, at
Speaker 1: like you know, seeing very cool fit um was just unparalleled. UM.
Speaker 1: And I'm just so glad to have been able to
Speaker 1: experience that with her and just see, you know, how
Speaker 1: many new things she gets to explore in this life
Speaker 1: now that she's a free, a free woman. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was amazing to me because the Querum. I would always
Speaker 1: say that the short on't teel how I used to say,
Speaker 1: I want to go there. I want to go there.
Speaker 1: So when Cat him and she said, you want to
Speaker 1: go to the Quirre. And when she did, it was
Speaker 1: like a joy. A lot of George just jumped on
Speaker 1: my face. I said, yeah, I want to go. I
Speaker 1: wanna go Cat, I want to go see him. And
Speaker 1: when I came seeing it was so beautiful. I just
Speaker 1: it was so amazing out here. But Cat led me
Speaker 1: all the way through and she was there, you have
Speaker 1: nowhere has been there for me. I could call him
Speaker 1: in any given time or whenever, and if it's a
Speaker 1: problem I have, they would do their best to fix
Speaker 1: or if I like sometimes I used to get depressed
Speaker 1: and stuff and I used to call him me. It's tall.
Speaker 1: And Angelique has been marvelous. Oh my gosh, she has
Speaker 1: been great. She client services specialist. Yes, she has been great.
Speaker 1: No matter what. If she can't call me back at
Speaker 1: the time, she takes me back and say I'll call
Speaker 1: you in a few minutes. Just hold long and um.
Speaker 1: But it has been great and it's and I'm happy
Speaker 1: to be home. I'm happy. I'm happy more happy now
Speaker 1: than I've ever been in my life. I didn't I
Speaker 1: never knew so much love and stuff, but now I do,
Speaker 1: and it's it's great. It's just that they took a
Speaker 1: lot of away from me. They took everything away from
Speaker 1: me for nothing but something I didn't even do. I
Speaker 1: lost everything. Oh, my youth was gone. And I just
Speaker 1: want to thank you Jason for having me. Wow, We're
Speaker 1: gonna be here for you too. Um, you have a
Speaker 1: whole new family now. You got family members here now,
Speaker 1: and you've got a lot more that are listening to
Speaker 1: the show. And so um you're You're a brave and
Speaker 1: strong and amazing woman and we're gonna support you in
Speaker 1: every way we can. So um, so again, thank you
Speaker 1: for being here, Thanks again for listening. Um, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go try to recover. That's what I'm gonna do. And
Speaker 1: uh and and we'll see you next week. I'm wrong
Speaker 1: for conviction. I have some devastating news to share. Um.
Speaker 1: Bobby Jane Johnson, who I recorded this amazing, haunting episode with,
Speaker 1: passed away. Um. It was unexpected. I'm no doctor, but
Speaker 1: I can say that she died of the abuse and
Speaker 1: neglect that she suffered at the hands of the State
Speaker 1: of Louisiana during her forty one years of wrongful incarceration.
Speaker 1: Bobby was an angel on earth. She was just a beautiful,
Speaker 1: damaged soul who wanted nothing but to be loved and
Speaker 1: to help others. And she was out less than eighteen
Speaker 1: months when she died. And I bring that up because
Speaker 1: it's a sort of a hidden and horrible truth. I
Speaker 1: don't know the statistics nationally, but in the state of Louisiana,
Speaker 1: approximately of axonorees die within eighteen months of their release
Speaker 1: from prison. It's really hard for me to process this one.
Speaker 1: We were planning Bobby's birthday party when we got the news.
Speaker 1: She had called me and said that she called me,
Speaker 1: Mr j She called me. She called me, she says,
Speaker 1: mr Ja. She goes, you know, my birthday is coming up.
Speaker 1: And she said in her little voice, because you know,
Speaker 1: she's only about nineties something pounds, and she said, you know,
Speaker 1: I've never had a happy birthday. And you know, that
Speaker 1: really just messed my head up, as you can imagine.
Speaker 1: So we began planning myself. Stacy Ryan, who mentored her
Speaker 1: hero the band Um wonderful rock and roll band that
Speaker 1: I work with from Atlanta. We all were putting our
Speaker 1: resources together and planning a big, beautiful birthday celebration for
Speaker 1: her in Atlanta, and you know, just a week before
Speaker 1: it was supposed to happen, we got the news that
Speaker 1: she was gone. So um, Bobby Jean, You're gone, but
Speaker 1: never forgotten. Rest in power. Don't forget to give us
Speaker 1: a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps.
Speaker 1: And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and
Speaker 1: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
Speaker 1: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go
Speaker 1: to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate
Speaker 1: and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team,
Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kevin Awards. The music in the show
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason
Speaker 1: Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one