1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Bobby Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: and later molested while she was in foster care. She 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: ran away from that horrible situation and tried to survive 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: as a sex worker on the streets of New Orleans. 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy seven, an antiquities dealer named Arthur Sampson 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: was found dead at his Saint Charles Avenue shop. He 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: had been shot once in the stomach with a thirty 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: two caliber bullet and stabbed over one hundred times. The 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: store was ransacked and safe was missing about two thousand dollars. 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: A month after the murder, Bobby Jean was writing in 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: what she did not know at the time was a 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: stolen car with two men. When they were pulled over 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: by the police for a traffic violation. One of the 14 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: men stashed a knife and a thirty two caliber revolver 15 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: in Bobby Jean's purse. At eighteen years old, Bobby Jean 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Johnson was brought in for a violent interrogation that would 17 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: change the course of her already tragic and vulnerable life. 18 00:00:54,600 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction today. 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: I have a guest who is one of the most 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: extraordinary people with one of the most insane stories that 21 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: I've ever heard. And she's also just a beautiful, beautiful person. So, 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: Bobby Jean Johnson, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. As I always say, 23 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you're here and 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: everyone will find out why. And with her is Kat Forrester, 25 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: who is the communications director for the Unists Project of 26 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: New Orleans, also known as IPNO. And Kat, welcome to 27 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. 28 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, happy to be here. 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:49,279 Speaker 1: So Bobby Jean was freed from prison twenty eighteen after 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: serving forty one years in prison for a crime she 31 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: didn't commit. And this case has so many of the 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: hallmarks of the causes of wrongfulctions that you know, it's 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: almost a clean sweep, so to speak. I mean, there 34 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: was misconduct, there was a false confession that you were 35 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: tortured into making, incompetent defense, it's not even that's not 36 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: even strong enough of a word. And we're going to 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: get into that all of that. But we're talking about 38 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, and this is an 39 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: extremely violent crime. This was a white man who was 40 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who was shot and 41 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's a vicious, vicious crime. 42 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: And just to paint a picture for people who are listening, 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: how tall are you? 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: I'm five feet tall. 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: You're five feet tall, and you're not a big one. 46 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 3: I wasn't that big at the time. I was like 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 3: ninety eight pounds, like and I will size zero pains. 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 3: I could google my clothes out the children's section. 49 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: So the whole thing makes no sense just on a 50 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: purely physical level. And mister Sampson, I mean, nobody deserves 51 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: to die like he did. But he was a sort 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: of a dicey character anyway. Right, he was known for 53 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: bringing sex workers to his home, which is one of 54 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: the reasons why the logical suspect would have been this 55 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: woman who was a sex worker, who was the last 56 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: person to see him alive. 57 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was the last person he was seen with 58 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: by anyone. 59 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: Right, So usually, you know, we all watch those crime 60 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: shows on TV, you know, you go down that path 61 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: at least take a look, you know, but that's not 62 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: what happened. What year was this by me? 63 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy seven? 64 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: You were an eighteen year old girl. 65 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, at the time. 66 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: So what was going on? You were living in New 67 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: Orleans at the time. 68 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was like on drugs and stuff. 69 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: Right. 70 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 3: So one night we was riding in a call. It 71 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 3: was me and two other dudes were riding a call 72 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 3: in the cops. The police stoptors for a traffic violation. 73 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: Were you were you driving? 74 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 3: No? I wasn't driving right. And at the time when 75 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: the police stopped us, one of the dudes that was 76 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 3: in the call with me thro the knife in a 77 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: gun in my person. So wouldn't book because I know 78 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: I didn't have no knife and gun in my purse. 79 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 3: So when the police pulled all my stuff out my person, 80 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: he said, oh, we got a knife and a gun. 81 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: I said, that is not for me. But they took 82 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 3: us to Homoicide Division and they put us in different 83 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: rooms and kept questions and I wasn't questions and I 84 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 3: kept telling him I don't know nothing about it. I 85 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: don't even know what his place is at. And I 86 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 3: heard his man and so one of the dudes, the 87 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 3: dude they put the gun in it, and I didn't 88 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 3: make a statement. Is said, when y'all stopped this, I 89 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: put that knife in that gun and Bibi. Jeez, that's 90 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 3: not whos I did that, and he made a statement. 91 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: They just ignored a statement. 92 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Kat, do you think they knew at the 93 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: time that they had the wrong person, but they just 94 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: wanted to clean up the case and that was what 95 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: was really going on. Yeah, I think so. 96 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 4: I mean, I think they had a pretty viable suspect 97 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 4: and they didn't follow any of the leads in that 98 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 4: other suspects case. And I think that so often, particularly 99 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 4: you know, back in the seventies, eighties, nineties in New Orleans, 100 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 4: particularly with black folks. I think that they, you know, 101 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 4: the cops got tunnel vision and you know, when they 102 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 4: found somebody and it seemed easy enough to pin it 103 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: on that person, you know, even if all the evidence 104 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 4: in the world pointed to someone else. So often they 105 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 4: just got tunnel vision and focused on one person and 106 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 4: you know, force their theory of the case to fit 107 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 4: to that person. 108 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: So they knew, they knew that this guy had come 109 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: forward who admitted that he had a classy guy. By 110 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: the way the cops coming, he's putting his knife and 111 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: he's gun in your purse. I mean, that's a hell 112 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: of a thing. And when you were arrested, and if 113 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: you're okay even talking about it, I mean, what I've 114 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: read about the interrogation that you went through this is 115 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: like something out of a you know, a bad movie, 116 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: or out of the torture that you read about in 117 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 1: a foreign country or abu grabe, you know, or something 118 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: like that. But I mean, you went to the police 119 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: station and what happened. 120 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: And then they put us in separate rooms. And they 121 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: kept throwing pictures in front me and they say, this 122 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: is him him. I said, well, I've never. 123 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: Seen that man before, the dead guy. 124 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: Ye had a dead man all the samson and then 125 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 3: one in my face. He said, no, let's take her 126 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 3: to the other room. So when they took me to 127 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 3: the other room, they still was asking me. So when 128 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 3: I kept saying I don't know. I can't tell you nothing. 129 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: I don't know, he said, oh, you're gonna know, and 130 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 3: he called me a black bee and he put my hand, 131 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: got me to the back behind his like wooden chair, 132 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 3: and put a plastic bag over my head. The chair 133 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 3: fell backwards and they started kicking me in my ribs 134 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 3: and all over and hit me, and he kept saying, 135 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: black b Yeah, you're gonna tell us because we know 136 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 3: you know, we know you know, he said, because let 137 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 3: me tell you, he said, ain't number of police officers 138 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: in this in the station right here, and we could 139 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: kill you and your family would never know nothing about you. 140 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: So I'm scattered at that, and so he said, come on, 141 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: we're going back in there by the time, he said, 142 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 3: and you're gonna put it on and if you don't, 143 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: you'll get some more. And I was scattered that I 144 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 3: was crying and everything. I had five police officers standing 145 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 3: up behind me and one sitting down who had the 146 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: tape recorder and he said, now you ready, I said, 147 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 3: I I don't know now he said. He turned the 148 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 3: tape off and he said, you're gonna repeat what I say. 149 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: He turned the tape of corder. 150 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, and sold mad. So I was so scared. I 151 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 3: did everything they was telling me to put on. But 152 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 3: it was a lie. I did it because I was scared. 153 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you had a very good reason to be scared. 154 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: I mean, that was hurting everywhere, and even after the 155 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 3: JF fell back with they was kicking me in my 156 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: ribs and everything. 157 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 4: It was horrible, and Jason, I just wanted to say that, 158 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: like the world had not been kind to Bobby Jean 159 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 4: before this all happened. You know, she had had a 160 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 4: really tough up upbringing, and it makes so much sense 161 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 4: that she would do anything to kind of survive, right this, 162 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 4: this brutal police interrogation and beating. 163 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: Thank you, Bobby Geen. 164 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just feel like the world had not been 165 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 4: kind to her, had not offered her a lot of hope. 166 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: And I, you know, I think. 167 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 3: Because I was I was given away when my mama 168 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: had me and I had to go home like that. 169 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 5: It was like I was scaring the whole world of 170 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 5: my shoulders. So I just got out there and I 171 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 5: just wanted somebody to love me, and I just wanted 172 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 5: to be accepting itself. So whatever it took for me 173 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 5: to do that, I did it. 174 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 4: And she was she was a young a young girl, 175 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 4: as you keep kind of pointing out, you know, who 176 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 4: was doing the best she could with what she had. 177 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: And then and then this thing happened to her, right. 178 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, then this thing happened. This is you know, there's 179 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: been too many of these cases where we've learned that 180 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: the officers have threatened to kill the person unless they confess. 181 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: Johnny and caapier is one thing of viyegas in Texas. 182 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: There's too many of these. And you know, Johnny says 183 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: to me, he was on the podcast and he said, 184 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: ask me, why would I confess? And he was eighteen, 185 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: like you were, and he says, why wouldn't I confess? 186 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: He goes, I wanted to live? You know what I want? 187 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: I just want I want to be if I was. 188 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: A young girl eighteen. You're really more of a child 189 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: than a woman. I mean at that point, you know, 190 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: I mean, we know that the adolescent brain doesn't fully 191 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: develop until you're twenty five. And here you are not 192 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: just a young girl, but a little girl, right, ninety 193 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: eight pounds, like you said, in a room full of big, 194 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: tough guys who you would want to think are going 195 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: to protect you, right, And in fact they're threatening in 196 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: a very real way. Right. It's not like it doesn't 197 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: sound like an empty threat when they're putting a plastic 198 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: bag over her and beating you and kicking you. I mean, 199 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: so I don't think there's any question. And I think 200 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: it's so important that you're here, and I really appreciate you. 201 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: I know it's difficult for you. I can see how 202 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: difficult it is. But it's so important for the public 203 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: to understand that these false confessions happen for a variety 204 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: of reasons. Not everybody's tortured, but a lot of people 205 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: are psychologically coerced, or they're or they're you know, confused. 206 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, in your situation, I don't think anyone would 207 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: probably behave any differently than you did. But then what 208 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: a difficult thing to live with too, because knowing as 209 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: you're going to prison for the rest of your life 210 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: that you are in a certain way responsible because you know, 211 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: you admitted something that you didn't do. But her confession 212 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: didn't match the facts of the case anyway. 213 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: No, she I mean she got a lot of it wrong. 214 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: I mean she didn't get much of it right actually, 215 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: and that's also a typical thing in these false confession cases. 216 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: After torturing her for hours, the police were able to 217 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: extract the taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies. According 218 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: to that false confession, Bobby Gene and a woman named 219 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: Kimberly Leagun had met Samson in the French Quarter. Legun 220 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: solicited him for sex. Then when he brought them back 221 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: to his store and again back to the false narrative 222 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: that she created just to make the torture stop. She 223 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: said Bobby herself got him once in the chest and 224 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: once in the head, and then her friend Legan stabbed 225 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: him over one hundred times. Then they robbed his store 226 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: and sped off in a stolen Pontiac Graham Prix. Now 227 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: for the actual facts, Arthur Sampson was shot only once 228 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: in the stomach, Bobby Jean described Sampson as being twenty 229 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: years younger and a half foot taller than he was. 230 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: And lastly, the Pontiac Grand Prix would not have made 231 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: a good getaway car, as it was not stolen until 232 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: hours after the murder. The man who had stashed a 233 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: thirty two caliber Revolver a Knight for her person had 234 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: made a statement admitting to just that, but that fact 235 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: was inconvenient to the prosecution's narrative and was therefore hidden 236 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: from the defense. All of this could have been brought 237 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: up during trial if Bobby Jean had adequate counsel. However, 238 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: with no family and no backup whatsoever, Bobby Jean didn't 239 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: have a chance in help. Now you're taking to jail, Yeah, 240 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: how long did you have to wait? For your trial 241 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: eighteen months, eighteen months in jail. Yeah, and I know 242 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: how bad that must have been, because jail's, I mean, 243 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: anywhere were terrible, but in New Orleans it's infamous. It is. Yeah, 244 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: your trial was. It was like a combination of a 245 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: bad dream and a bad joke. It was because the 246 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: people who are supposed to be defending you did nothing 247 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: of the sort. Yeap, And can you talk about that? Yeah? 248 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,719 Speaker 3: I can. Doing my trial, my lawyer wouldn't let me 249 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 3: get onder standing and talking my own defense. He fell 250 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 3: asleep drough the trial. 251 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: Your lawyer was asleep, Yeah. 252 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 3: He fell asleep during the I had to wake him up. 253 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 3: And he didn't do no opening statements. 254 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: No opening statement, and no clue in statements. 255 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 3: And one of the jurors stood up in state totally 256 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 3: d I cannot give miss Johnson a fair trial because 257 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 3: I had a relationship with this man. The judge said, 258 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 3: be seated with the victim. Yeah, and he And now 259 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 3: I know because when I was in prison, I took 260 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 3: fair leave and I graduated from it. But my lawyer 261 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 3: should have called a mistrial when that jurors stood up 262 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 3: and he didn't say not a word, and. 263 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 2: The judge said, just let's let's please proceed. 264 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've been doing this work for over 265 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: twenty five years, and I've heard a lot of stories. 266 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: I've never heard that before. I mean, I've heard stories 267 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: of yourors that had but I never heard a duror 268 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: actually stand up in. 269 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: A mid She she raised a hand and she said, 270 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 3: I can I get this lady at petrial because I 271 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: had a relationship with mister. 272 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: Samson, and so your lawyer was asleep, You're waking him up. 273 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: He made no opening statement, he made no closing statement, 274 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: and he didn't object to the last didn't call him 275 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: miss trial. 276 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 4: He made one objection throughout the trial to the admission 277 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 4: of a photograph. He asked a total of eight cross 278 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 4: examination questions, the majority of which dealt with the ballistics 279 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 4: of the gun. No opening and no closing, and he 280 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 4: presented no case theory. 281 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: He essentially did nothing except. 282 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 3: Jake a nap and sid do. 283 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, he didn't defend you so much as 284 00:13:58,400 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: process you. 285 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 3: Right when I was in jail, when they occurring him 286 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: to me, he never came seeing me. The only time 287 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: I seen him was at court and sometimes when they 288 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 3: would have court dates. For me, but he wouldn't be there, 289 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 3: so they would postpone it to another day. 290 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: Oh so that's why I took eighteen months to get 291 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: to trial. Yeah, because he wouldn't show up. 292 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 3: He wouldn't show up. 293 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: Did at any point did you request a different lawyer? 294 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: Did you even know that you? 295 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 3: I didn't know. I was young and I didn't know, 296 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: and you probably. 297 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I would think in that situation, you know 298 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: nothing about the law, right, And I would think again 299 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: in that situation, that you would be worried if you 300 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: did request, Well, then you're going to upset the only 301 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: guy who's on your side right now. Did you have 302 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: any family in the courtroom with you or anything like that? No, nobody, 303 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: just you all alone. Yeah, Jesus Christ. 304 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: Took them less than an hour to come back with 305 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: a guilty verdict. 306 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 307 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: So when I got there, so at first I wasn't 308 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 3: because I was angry. I was angry and I was hurt. 309 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: That's when I was starting I started fighting, and all 310 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 3: this it didn't matter no more because I had at 311 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: It was like, well, Baptigi, you got a life sentence. 312 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: Now, it's nothing you could do. 313 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: You're going to die in this prison. 314 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 6: But then I started praying and praying and praying. And 315 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 6: one of the last fight I had, I remember, I 316 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 6: was in that cell. I just fell to my knees 317 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 6: and I said, God, just take my life. I'm I'm 318 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 6: tired of living like this. Take my life and do 319 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 6: what you want to do with it. And from that 320 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 6: day to this one, I ain't been the same. I 321 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 6: grew up, I got more mature, and I did everything. 322 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: I could do. Was they was offering the GED. So 323 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: I know I had been out of school a few 324 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 3: months and stuff, and I got in this trouble because 325 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: I know I was a small girl. I had just 326 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 3: I hadn't graduated. I dropped out at the eleventh grade. 327 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: And so I took the GED and I passed the GED. 328 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 3: It was giving grants off of introduction to business, payroll 329 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 3: accountant and pay league. First, I took the pay of 330 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: legal on and I passed with a full PARANORL yeah wow. 331 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 3: And I studied hard or I studied hard because I 332 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 3: wanted it and I wanted I did everything I could 333 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 3: to rehabilitate myself in every kind of way. It was 334 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 3: nothing I didn't do positive in jail. I had fights 335 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 3: in jail because I was small, and they thought I 336 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 3: was scared of him, but I wasn't. And I had 337 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 3: fights with quite a few people. But I grew and 338 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: I matured. I did everything I know to do right. 339 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 3: I was a law curder and all this in the prison. 340 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 6: When I got into the old the law library, I 341 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 6: started writing to. 342 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 3: Everybody to try to help me. One day, my sister, 343 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: theyd just sent me all your pavots I'm gonna bring 344 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 3: into Innocent project. And when I sent them all to it, 345 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 3: they got them and they started working on my case immediately. 346 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 3: Every two weeks they would be up there to see 347 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 3: week and they tell me how the case was going 348 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 3: on whatever. And then the day, oh, I went to 349 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 3: court on the seven. I didn't even know I had 350 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: a court or the deal. Oh, they said, Jen Johnson, 351 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: get ready, you got a court trip. 352 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 7: I said, a court trip? Downt y'all have never taken 353 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 7: me back to court, so I didn't know what was 354 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 7: going on. So I said okay, And when I got dressed, 355 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 7: they brought me to courthouse and all them was in the. 356 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 3: Court room for me, all lawyers, yes, but all my 357 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 3: lawyers walked up with me to the podium when I 358 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 3: had to do the plea and everything. 359 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: For many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative 360 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: and the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on 361 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: Bobby Jane's case, investigating leads, studying the evidence, and identifying 362 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: the inconsistencies in her violently coursed false confession to eventually 363 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: force the District Attorney's office to offer a plea deal. 364 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: The deal was this, her first degree murder conviction and 365 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: life sentence would be vacated, but Bobby Jean had to 366 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: plead guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to 367 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: be recent sentence to time served. Her attorneys also had 368 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: to drop any claims that the DA's office did not 369 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome the 370 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: Day or anyone who cared about Bobby jan had hoped for, 371 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: but it was the only one that would set her free. 372 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this 373 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: case is the fact that even after all these years, 374 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: and even after it's been proven that you had nothing 375 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake, 376 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want 377 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So 378 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: the DA's office in New Orleans forced you to take 379 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: a plea just to sort. 380 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 3: Of could be free, as that was the only way 381 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 3: say you take this, flee or you stay in prison. 382 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: Right, I think anybody would do what you did. And 383 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: kat I want you to jump in here anytime, because 384 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: I know you're intimately familiar with this case, and I 385 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: know how proud you are of the work that as 386 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: I am as a supporter of Innis's Project New Orleans, 387 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: I'm so proud of the work that they did, and 388 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: I'm so happy. I mean, I saw those pictures and 389 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: I posted on my Instagram, which is at It's Jason 390 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: Flamm as people know, but I posted the pictures of 391 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: Bobby Jean walking out of prison that day, and I 392 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: just my heart was breaking or floating. I was breaking. 393 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air, 394 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine 395 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: some light on this cat because this case is bizarre 396 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: even by our standards. 397 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so. It was a case that we worked 398 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 4: on for several years. One of the attorneys in our office, 399 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 4: Schrell Arnold, worked on it for a long time, and 400 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 4: it ended up being the Promise of Justice Initiative, an 401 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 4: incredible organization in New Orleans who ended up freeing Bobby 402 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 4: Jean and walking her out of prison. But we were 403 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 4: there because she was, you know, the first. 404 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 2: Female client who we'd really worked on her. 405 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 4: Case for for a long time and had a really 406 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 4: good lead. And part of that is because, as you know, Jason, 407 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 4: I'm sure sure you know, women aren't often sentenced to 408 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 4: life in prison or long prison sentences, which is what 409 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 4: HYPNO does is free innocent life sentence prisoners, and women 410 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 4: so often are caught up in things that men do 411 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 4: right there, or they harm or kill their domestic abusers. 412 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 4: And so this was you know, really exciting for us, 413 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 4: I think because it was the first time that we'd 414 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 4: worked with a woman for a number of years, and 415 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 4: of course Bobby Cheen is just incredible, and you know, 416 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 4: I think having her come home. 417 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 2: I actually came and hung out with her in Atlanta when. 418 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 4: She got home, and we went to the aquarium and 419 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 4: started learning how to use a cell phone. That's as 420 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 4: I think we showed you some pictures and it was 421 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 4: a really incredible moment. I you know, can't imagine being 422 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 4: incarcerated for forty one years. 423 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: No, I mean when you put that in context, that's 424 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: I mean, you were only eighteen at the time, so 425 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: that's twice as long as you had been alive, plus 426 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: another five years. I mean, it's it's impossible, I think 427 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: for anybody to comprehend who hasn't been through it. Jesus, 428 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: who was president when you went to prison? 429 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: I don't remember. I don't know. 430 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: We have to look. Jimmy Carter was president. That's got Yeah. 431 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's a long time. Most of the people 432 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: who are listening to the show weren't born yet, and 433 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: everything was different, and then you come out into a 434 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: world where everybody's walking around typing on their phones, going everywhere, 435 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: like there's just everything is different. 436 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 3: When I am my first phone in my hand, I 437 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 3: was like, oh my god. Cat. She had to assume 438 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 3: me everything, how to turn it on and everything. 439 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 2: First thing she wanted was an Instagram account. 440 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what is your Instagram account? 441 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 3: I don't know. 442 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 2: She doesn't know Bobby Jean twenty eighteen. 443 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: So you walk out, I mean, what a difference you 444 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: You go as a scared, brutalized, young nineteen twenty year 445 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: old woman by the time eighteen when you went to 446 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: jail and you come out as an accomplished, mature, fifty 447 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:19,479 Speaker 1: nine year old woman. You walk out into a world 448 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: that looks almost nothing like it did when you went. 449 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 3: In, because New Orleans don't look nothing like it did 450 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 3: when I went in. I mean I almost forgot the 451 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 3: names of the streets that I definitely looked at. 452 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,719 Speaker 8: To me, Yeah, I had five, five of my lords 453 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 8: with me, and it was just, I don't know, it 454 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 8: was a feeling I never had before. 455 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 3: I used to pray every night, God, you my only witness, 456 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 3: and you know I didn't kill nobody, just open these 457 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: doors and help me. Every night I prayed that in 458 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 3: my robe. It was so hard for me. 459 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: Here we are at the Innocence Network conference. By the way, 460 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: how about this conference, Bobby, It's amazing. Yeah. So we're 461 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: here at the Innocence Never Conference with about two hundred 462 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: exgonnarees and six hundred people activists, social workers, civilians who 463 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: want to get involved. Two of them are in the 464 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: room with us right now. We have lawyers here, we 465 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: have experts on everything from you know, false confessions to uh, 466 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: you name it, and uh. It's an awesome awesome thing. 467 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: I mean people are connecting and strategizing and coming up 468 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: with best practices and helping each other. And yeah, I 469 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: mean we have we have thirty five new exouneries here 470 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: that were on stage last night singing and dancing and 471 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: it was some crazy scene. Man, it's amazing, including you. Yeah, yeah, 472 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: you're up there. 473 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 2: How to feel to be up there? 474 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 3: It was a feel good you feel. 475 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: Good for you to connect with the other exigneries. What 476 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: is that experience? 477 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 3: Like, it's just like because I just thought, I said, 478 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 3: I know that many people there's both convictions, and it 479 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 3: made me feel good to know that I was. 480 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 1: I was. 481 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 9: I wasn't only one. Oh no, hell no, but I 482 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 9: didn't know at the time. But it really feel good 483 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 9: and to know that much loved it. We showed to 484 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 9: each other. 485 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, we ain't done yet. We're going to 486 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: be loving on you for the well for the rest 487 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: of the time, but especially the LASS next twenty four 488 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: hours and we're all going to be here together. It's 489 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: going to be amazing. And I know that people are 490 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: are so glad that you're here. 491 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 3: It's amazing. 492 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: It's amazing, right, Yes, yeah, I mean I'm so honored 493 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: to be here and be a part of this movement. 494 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: I will tell anybody who's listening that, you know, I 495 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: call it selfish altruism because I can consider it a 496 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: privilege and an honor to get to be around people 497 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: like yourself and to be able to make some small 498 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: difference is you know, it's the most rewarding thing in 499 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: my life. I mean, you know, obviously you know I'm 500 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: a father and that's a tremendously important thing to me. 501 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: But beyond that, it's the most important work that I 502 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: can imagine being involved with. And you're a living proof 503 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: of it. And here we are celebrating you and celebrating 504 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: freedom and working on getting the next people out and 505 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: and so now you're living in Georgia. In Georgia, yes, 506 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: and what gives you joy? Now? Do you have any 507 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: joy in your life? Now? 508 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 3: I have to enjoy my life now because it's like 509 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 3: living where I live. I can come and go with 510 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 3: exact please. Anybody could come get me and like take 511 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 3: me wherever they want to save me, Like if they 512 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 3: want to take me out there or whatever, I could 513 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 3: do it. And they have a lot of activities because 514 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 3: I'm because I'm because of my age. They have a 515 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 3: lot of activities for old and I always attended. They 516 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 3: have church service. I always attended and they treat me good. 517 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: And what is it that you do once a month, 518 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 2: Bobby Jean. 519 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 3: Oh, I'll go to George's Innocent Project. I'm a men 520 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: of the George's Innocent Project and I never missed a meeting. 521 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 3: I'm always there. 522 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 523 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 4: They've really lovingly taken her into the exonery meetings that 524 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 4: happen once a month there so she gets to hang 525 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 4: out with other wrongfully incarcerated to people who live in Georgia. 526 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: I see you got the shirt on Georgia, said Mabby. 527 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 3: Do you go w a Jeorjia Innocent Project shirt? I say, yeah, 528 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 3: I don't have one for all ipn wear the judge one. 529 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: I need to get you a just a shirt. 530 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: I know, don't have a justice sir. 531 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: I think we can arrange that. So, okay, you got 532 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: that one. I got it. Okay. Perfect teamwork makes the 533 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: dream work. So this is the part of the show 534 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: that is my favorite part because this is the part 535 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: of the show where I get to first of all, 536 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: I thank. 537 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 3: You, thank you for having me. 538 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: Bobby Jean Johnson and Kat Forrester, thank you for coming 539 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: and share especially you Bobby obviously Bobby Jeene for I 540 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: know how difficult it is to talk about these things, 541 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: and it's so important that you're here, so, you know, 542 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: thank you on behalf of me and all my listeners 543 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: and everybody in the Innocence Network. And then this is 544 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: the part where I get to stop talking, and I 545 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: turned it over to YouTube fabulous ladies for final closing thoughts, 546 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: and I think we should we should finish with you, Bobby, 547 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: because I want to hear anything you have to say, 548 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: any anything at all about any subject. But first, Kat, 549 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: what what are your closing thoughts. 550 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: I'm just so glad that we helped get her home. 551 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 4: And I was thinking about it because were at the 552 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 4: aquarium last night for the Innocence Network dinner, and we 553 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 4: went to the aquarium right after she got out, and 554 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 4: to see the joy on her face, you know, at 555 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 4: like you know, seeing very cool. 556 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: Fash was just unparalleled. 557 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 4: And I'm just so glad to have been able to 558 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 4: experience that with her and to see, you know, how 559 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 4: many new things she gets to explore in this life 560 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 4: now that she's a free, a free woman. 561 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was amazing to me because the a Quirum 562 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 3: I would always see that they showed on TV. I 563 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: used to say, I want to go there. I want 564 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 3: to go there. So when Kat had me, she said, 565 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 3: you want to go to the Querrum. And when she 566 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 3: did it, it was like a a lot of joy just 567 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 3: jumped on my face. 568 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 10: I said, yeah, I want to go. I want to 569 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 10: go Cat, I want to go see him. And when 570 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 10: I came in, it was so beautiful. I just it 571 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 10: was so amazing out here. But Kat led me all 572 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 10: the way through and she was there. Yp Noel's been 573 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 10: there for me. 574 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: I could call him at any given time or whenever, 575 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 3: and if it's a problem I have, they would do 576 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 3: their best to fix it. Or if I like sometimes 577 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 3: I used to get depressed and stuff and I used 578 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 3: to call them and talk. And Angelique has been marvelous. 579 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: Oh my god, she has been. 580 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: Great client services specialists. 581 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 3: Yes, she has been great. No matter what, if she 582 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 3: can't call me back at the time, she'll text me 583 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: back and say I'll call you in a few minutes, 584 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: just hold on and but then it has been great 585 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 3: and it's and I'm happy to be home. 586 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm happy. 587 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 3: I'm happy more happy. 588 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: Now than I've ever been in my life. I didn't 589 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: I never. 590 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 11: Knew so much love and stuff, but no, I do. 591 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 11: And it's it's great. It's this that they took a 592 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 11: lot of away from me. They took everything away from 593 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 11: me for nothing but something I didn't even do. 594 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: I lost everything, all my youth was gone, and I 595 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 3: just want to thank you Jason for having me. 596 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to be here for you too. You 597 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: have a whole new family now. You've got eight hundred 598 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: family members here now, and you've got a lot more 599 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: that are listening to the show. And so you're a 600 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: brave and strong and amazing woman and we're gonna support 601 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: you in every way we can. So so again, thank 602 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: you for being here. Thanks again for listening. I'm going 603 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: to go try to recover. That's what I'm gonna do, 604 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: and and we'll see you next week. I'm wrong for conviction. 605 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: I have some devastating news to share. Bobby Jean Johnson, 606 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: who I recorded this amazing, haunting episode with, passed away. 607 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: It was unexpected. I'm no doctor, but I can say 608 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: that she died of the abuse and neglect that she 609 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: suffered at the hands of the State of Louisiana during 610 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: her forty one years of wrongful incarceration. Bobby was an 611 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: angel on earth. She was just a beautiful, damaged soul 612 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: who wanted nothing but to be loved and to help others. 613 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: And she was out less than eighteen months when she died. 614 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: And I bring that up because it's a sort of 615 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: a hidden and horrible truth. I don't know the statistics nationally, 616 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: but in the state of Louisiana, approximately twenty percent of 617 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: xanneries die within eighteen months of their release from prison. 618 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: It's really hard for me to process this one. We 619 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: were planning Bobby's birthday party when we got the news. 620 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: She had called me and said that she called me 621 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: mister Jay. She called me, she called me mister Jay. 622 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: He goes, you know, my birthday's coming up, and she said, 623 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: I've in her little voice because you know, she's only 624 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: about ninety something pounds, and she said, you know, I've 625 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: never had a happy birthday. And you know, that really 626 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: just messed my head up, as you can imagine. So 627 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: we began planning myself. Stacy Ryan, who mentored her hero 628 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: of the band, a wonderful rock and roll band that 629 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,719 Speaker 1: I work with from Atlanta. We all were putting our 630 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: resources together and planning a big, beautiful birthday celebration for 631 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: her in Atlanta, and you know, just a week before 632 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: it was supposed to happen, and got the news that 633 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: she was gone. So Bobby Jean, You're gone, but never forgotten. 634 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: Rest in power, don't forget to give us a fantastic 635 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps. And 636 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: I'm a proud donor to the Ennocence Project and I 637 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important 638 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to 639 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 1: Innocence Project dot orgorg to learn how to donate and 640 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor 641 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is 642 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure 643 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on 644 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm 645 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association 646 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number one