WEBVTT - Noah Baumbach Gets Personal in Marriage Story 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.480 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:14.520 Noah Bombeck's new film is Marriage Story. It's stunning. When 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.079 I first saw the film, I could barely find the 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.560 words to express my reaction. It felt that real, that honest. 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:26.400 Bomb Beck is known for messy and realistic family dramas. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.480 The Squid and the Whale chronicles divorce, Margot at the 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:35.239 Wedding explores the relationship between two sisters. The Myrowitz Stories 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:40.479 tells of three adult siblings, different mothers, same father, negotiating 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.479 resentment and love. But Marriage Story puts bomb Beck on 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:49.960 a plane with Woody Allen, Barry Levinson, and Mike Nichols. 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:54.800 In terms of directing talent. The writing, directing, and acting 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:59.880 come together perfectly. Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson and had 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:04.160 A Bombeck's words with exquisite performances of a couple coming 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:09.400 apart while parenting a young son. There have been plenty 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:14.240 of comparisons between Bombeck's own life and his movies, especially 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.279 so with Marriage Story. Bomb Beck and actress Jennifer Jason 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.679 Lee divorced soon after they had a child. But bomb 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.560 Beck is quick to say his films are not autobiographical, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.319 they are personal. He admits that the process of turning 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.600 Beal life into films as part of how he copes 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.000 and makes sense of things. When hard things have happened 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.360 to be in my life, and I mean not only 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.880 hard things, but but certainly hard things have happened in 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.600 my life, there is a kind of comfort I think 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.640 in my mind of sort of what would this be 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.200 if we put it in a movie? Um, I think, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.000 uh something, Um, did you get to know did you 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.280 know Mike Nichols much? I mean, you work with him, 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.240 but they worked with him and kept in touch with them. 0:01:58.240 --> 0:01:59.880 You're so good a working girl though, you know with 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.800 he said when he I met him after Squid in 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.840 the Whale, and he said it reminded me of why 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:09.880 I got into the movie business in the first place, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.960 which is revenge. And I thought, I know what he 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.720 means though, because again it's not revenge on a person. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.560 It's almost like revenge on experience or or And from that, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.560 with that movie, it was kind of childhood. It was 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.880 like a way for me to stand up from my 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.239 younger self as an adult now who had a voice 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.760 that that child didn't have. And I think I do 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.080 think of that sometimes in my life, not necessarily well 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.080 I'm going through it, but sort of maybe soon after. 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.799 If of that, there's a kind of soothing way of 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:41.960 like what would that be, whether or not it ever 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.240 becomes a scene in a movie or not. Um, I've 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.360 definitely had that in Like hospital situations were the movie 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.880 I made before the Myerwitz stories. Um, my father had 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.120 been in the hospital for a long time, and I 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:59.480 you're close to your dad, I was, yeah, And I mean, 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.320 if I'm imagine you've spent some time in hospitals, it's 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.800 sort of you know, it's such a I mean not 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.000 unlike the divorce system. It's like the ways you learn 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.919 to function only work in that environment. They don't have 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.840 any practical application outside of that environment, you know, like 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.799 how you work with a nurse or a doctor and 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.359 then the changing nurse and the knack doctors going on vacation. 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.720 And I didn't make a movie about it for many 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.760 years later, but I felt like, well, that was a 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.840 certain kind of reappropriating that situation and turning it into 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.560 something else. One of the things, among many things, I'm 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:32.600 reminded of when I saw your film, because I wrote 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.560 a book about my divorce, not necessarily because I changed 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:38.840 a lot of details, and I assigned a lot of 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.120 stories and ideas to fictitious characters that I made up 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.280 in in fictional oral histories, because I don't want to 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.320 say too much about specific people. But if your films 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:53.360 are are are personal but not auto biographical, I'm assuming 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.280 that when you do these films like Squid the Whale 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:00.000 in Marriage Story, there's a lot you leave out. Uh. 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:01.920 Is that a process for you of what stays in 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.720 and what doesn't go in? Yeah? It is. And and 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.360 with marriage Story, a lot of it was what I 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.120 discovered in writing it, or once I had a draft 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:17.800 of it, was that it worked best when I stayed 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.360 on the process and the story of the divorce itself, 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.600 because all the life stuff, as as in your book 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.080 you you write about this wonderfully too, is that the 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.440 life stuff doesn't stop for you to get divorce, even 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.840 though the divorce takes over your life and kind of 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:38.760 you gotta go to work. Yeah, you have to go 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.919 to work. You still have to be a parent, and 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:42.560 you have to be a parent, even if it's difficult 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.400 to be with your kid. You're you're now with your 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.360 kid and you're distracted by the divorce. And so I 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.120 felt like I I just have to acknowledge that and 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.760 tell that story and all of those life moments will 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.560 be there, because that is the movie too. And it 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.120 was these other scenes that were more sort of be 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.560 set piece scenes that were kind of just taking and 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:04.599 there were just other things they were and and so 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.520 I that was the stuff I really stripped away in 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.480 the script stage from marriage story. You wrote it yourself? 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.160 The screen put yeah, completely. Yeah. When you when you 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.200 write something, do you have people who counsel you that 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.479 you respect and you hand them drafts and they you 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.480 get notes from them and I guess from them many. Yeah. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:25.640 I show Greta Gerwig, who I lived with, um uh everything, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.160 and she also is a sounding board even early on 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:33.640 when I'm you're married, we're not technically we have a child? Yes, 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.640 so we so you have your current love of your 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.120 life and your child. She's the sounding board for the 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.280 movie about your divorce from your predum kidding, um, well, 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.440 but but just anything we'll say, any any ideas across 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.560 the board, across the board. And I have friends, uh, 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.640 director friends, writer friends who I who I might uh 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.839 certainly that I'll show early drafts to I bring my 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:02.240 editor Jen lame in always from early drafts because my 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.200 idea is that we should almost cut the script the 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.800 way we're going to cut the final movie. So I 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.920 um involved, Yeah, so like, let's shoot what we think 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.880 we're really going to use And why do you think 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:15.760 you do that as opposed to miss Some people don't 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.320 do that, most don't do that. Well. I feel like 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.760 for me, time is so important. Uh. I mean it's 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.839 important for every director, I imagine, but I want to 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.040 have time with these scenes and time for the actors 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:30.240 and be able. I like to do a lot of 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.480 takes and I want to I want to be able 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.680 to explore, not totally unlike you might in a play 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.280 or something, you know, be able to, you know, get 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.240 as much out of these scenes as we can get 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.000 and not feel like, oh I wish we want to 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.160 know in your heart really matters as opposed to yeah. 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.400 And I find also when I'm working with actors who 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.440 I love, who really when it's really clicking, they're always 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.039 giving me ideas while we're doing it. A lot of 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.000 my direction comes from things they do in a scene 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.160 that gives me an idea of how we could push 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.880 the scene in that direction. So I don't want to 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.160 shoot scenes or things that I'm not going to use 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:10.960 if I can avoid it. I mean, there's always stuff 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.400 you cut, but if if I can get the script 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.320 is close to what I think the movie is going 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.720 to be, I feel like all the better in the 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.480 movie is an amazing movie. It's an amazing movie. You 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.080 don't you know? You're an enormously talented director, You're a 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.360 enormously talented writer, and you also happen to get the 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.560 two actors that would be, in my mind, everyone's dream 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.320 to do a drama like that. I mean, he's at 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.880 the top of his game. Everybody the things, he's one 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.920 of the five most talented men alive today. And her 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.080 the same thing. She's almost on another planet in terms 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.400 of her range and things she's done. I'm wondering, what's 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.680 the path to them with you? Is it a formal 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:51.520 process through representation or is it like you're having dinner 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.200 with Barry Levinson and he says, I can call Adam. 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.000 You know what was it? Is it? Well, this is 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.160 my fourth movie with Adam, so I because I knew Madam, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.720 I knew Adam, I cast Adam in frances hat Off 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.680 an audition and it was before Girls had come out, 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.040 so I hadn't seen him in anything. He just came 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.760 in and I and so I've had a relationship with 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:16.880 him since then, and um, so it for us and 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.320 we become friends. And what was it about him that, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.840 if you can, well, he Adam described acting as benign 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.120 rebellion once it was we were doing an interview together 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.280 and he said it, and I just it was one 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.240 of the things where you're doing press, you're all saying 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.440 the same things over and over, and then he suddenly 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.320 said this. I hadn't heard this before, and I thought, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:38.560 what a what an interesting, great way to describe what 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.120 an actor does, and also very much what he does, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:47.839 which I do find. He's both in serving the material, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.480 the movie, the story always, but he's always looking for 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:59.840 true moments, spontaneous things that activate him. And so he 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.520 is pushing constantly, and so he'll and and he'll say 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.839 things to me like I think, I'm not going to 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.640 cross my legs in this take, And I know he 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.040 has a reason because it's going to change something for 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.840 him that might have great ripple effects for the scene. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.800 I may not even know why or hadn't even thought 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:21.560 about the fact that he was crossing his legs. I 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:27.400 was maybe thinking or watching something else. And that's he's 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.800 very aware and unaware at the same time. It's that 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:36.080 conscious unconscious thing that actors do, and it's my favorite 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:40.520 way to work. He's also he is. He loves rehearsing, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.320 he loves doing many takes. He knows every bit of 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.400 dialogue down to the ellipse, and he's thought about it 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.959 and he has the the the hesitation as it's scripted. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.920 He has found his way into it. I mean, it's 0:09:56.040 --> 0:10:00.240 it's um. It really is that thing for I have 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.560 said this, but someone said about poetry that it it 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.840 gives you your own thoughts back with added majesty. And 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.400 I find he gives me back my words and and 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.560 my have to make every film with him, then yeah, 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.040 I know, well I would like to. I mean, he's 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:21.640 really special. He's also um. He also is you know, 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.480 he's like you know, he's like this. He can talk. 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.959 We we talk about movies in general. It's not all 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.439 about just his performance or He's always very interested in 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.000 what the story is going to be, what the movie 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.440 as a whole. It's not it's not just about you know, 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.320 he's a real collaborator in in the bigger sense too. 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.400 I love that. But what's it like to approach someone 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.480 you've known him for a while now and you are 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.360 friends with him, to approach him as things with him 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.559 are at the boiling point now in terms of his career. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.440 Is it hard to get him to do you have 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.959 the kind of relationship where he turns to the rest 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.080 of the world and says, I'm talking to Noah on 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.480 the phone and he goes in your direction. Or is 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.320 tough to find a window in his this schedule? Well, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.280 he's things have to be planned now. He's more carefully, 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.199 but he will make the time because it's something he 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.560 feels strongly. And what about her? How did you approach her? 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.600 She I had known a little bit just over the years. 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.040 We had almost done a thing together, probably about ten 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.040 years ago or something, so I and I always sort 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.720 of felt like, at some point I'm gonna I'll have 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.360 something I feel is right for her, and Adam and 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.880 I talked about it. This was even before the script 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.200 was really written. We talked about, well, who would be 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.920 the right person, you know, for this movie? And she 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.200 was both of our first idea. So I reached out 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.040 to her. I just emailed her and and uh, and 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.400 said I think maybe I have something we could do together. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:53.680 And we met for lunch and then she arrived and said, sorry, 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.640 I'm late. I was on the phone with my lawyer. 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.240 I'm going through a divorce, and I thought Jesus, and 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.599 so I thought, well, then this is either going to 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:08.360 be a great or terrible disaster. To her credit, it was. 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.280 It was great. She she went in that direction. She 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:16.319 just saw it as a way too, you know, to 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.480 um to take it on. Yeah, her career is so varied. 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.920 I mean, she can she can convey innocence and a 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.400 sweetness and a vulnerability and and uh and uh and 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:32.920 and I kind of I don't want to I don't 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:34.640 know what the word is, kind of when she did 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.520 onto this kind of a deadness, kind of an emotional 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.920 neutrality that's like like she's from another planet. You know, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.840 there's an essence to her that she can manipulate. And 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.160 on screen, she she's one of the few actors that 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.160 I know that comes across a completely different people. When 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.520 she performed yeah, well there's there's a thing scripted. The 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:57.120 thing that was in the script Um, which I wrote 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:02.160 thinking about her because she's an actor. In the beginning there, 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.760 it's the closing night of their theater company and and 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.400 their home, and things are tense, and he can't help 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.560 but give her a note even though she's never gonna 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.080 play this part again, He's going to give her a 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:17.000 note on the on the on the final performance, and 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.400 she says that she has trouble crying on stage. You 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:27.120 know that What follows is she turns into sobbing in life, 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.160 in the movie, in life, and I felt she could 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.880 both convey the sort of that that that moment of 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:40.360 that sort of defensive moment of of and then turn 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.720 and just completely open up, you know, within it's it's 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.040 it's you know, it is literally in a turn, she 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:52.640 turns and starts crying, and that's, you know something Having 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.440 her in mind while I'm writing gives you the idea 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.200 for something like that. You grew up in Brooklyn out 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:02.640 and your parents got divorced when you were how old? 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.760 I was, uh fourteen when they when they finally my 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.760 father finally moved out. And what did your father do 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.200 for a living? He was a writer, He was a 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.240 teacher in Brooklyn College, and he teached. He he ran 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.520 the creative writing program for a PhD program at Brooklyn College, 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.520 and then he also was a He was a writer, 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:28.000 a novelist and short story writer. UM, but also did 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:29.960 film criticism. It was he was sort of that era 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:31.320 where you kind of did all that, you know, like 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.960 there was that kind of intellectual life where you did 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.000 many things. There was like a mom was a film 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.560 critic as well. My mom became a film critic. She 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.760 was a film critic I should, but but became for me. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.920 It was later in my life. It was it was 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:47.160 when I was really when I went to college. Um. 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.040 She also had written fiction and had some stories in 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.760 The New Yorker and had also taught And I mean 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:55.480 the way my brother and I always described it as 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.680 that art in our family was kind of like religion. 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.640 It was the highest, yeah, and the this sort of 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.000 thing to aim for now when you were growing up. 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.800 Because I asked practically everyone who works in film and 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.760 television and beyond, you know, or if they're in music, 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.240 I asked him regarding their early years in terms of 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.680 music appreciation, what was film and television in your childhood? 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.880 What was that like? Film was a big My parents 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.280 really loved movies, so they took me to a lot 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.120 of movies. Do you want to go see Sorrow in 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:29.560 the Pity when you were eight years? Well? Kind of, uh, 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:36.120 but they also were into what I was into. Also. 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.040 My father particularly made a real effort to go to 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:41.800 you know, I was born in sixty nine, so sort 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:43.800 of the the early eighties is when I was started 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.520 like really kind of branching out in terms of movies. 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.480 And uh, he would go with me really to anything. 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.160 I mean, we would just go to movies and yeah, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.480 and what does it matter? Yeah, if it sucks, then 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.560 we learned that. We learned that, and we could and 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.480 we would have you know, I remember seeing all these 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.480 Richard because you know, I love Richard Pryor, and we'd 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.880 go to all these just terrible Richard Pryor movies and 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.040 then he's clearly doing for paycheck. Silver Streak. Silver Streak 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.960 was a pretty good one. But but I remember this 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.840 one called some kind of Hero with Margot Kidder, which 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.400 is I remember we were both so baffled, we couldn't 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.560 believe how bad it was, and um, but that was 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:27.840 kind of almost as good as and yeah, exactly, and 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.400 just going and sitting and your religion. It was in 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.120 a sense, and he you know, and big he was 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.840 of you know, of the mind that we don't spend 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:37.920 the extra money on the concession. So it really was 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.120 just the movie. We Where did he grow up? Where 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.360 is he from? He's from Brooklyn to he um. His 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.560 father was a painter, and he grew up in Brooklyn. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.040 He went to Brooklyn College. He went to New you 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:51.920 Trick High School, and then he went to Brooklyn College. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.960 A painter like the painting hanging on the wall or 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.280 the wall it's self. Few paint like the one hanging 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.400 on the wall. And artist an artist. Ye, and your 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.160 mother My mother was her whole family from the South. 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.880 Her name is Georgia Brown. She was named after Georgia, 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:09.480 the place and h Her father worked for Coca Cola, 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:14.719 so they traveled a lot. Uh. And when I was older, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.719 her parents were living in Seattle, but they had all 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.480 started in the South. Did you know, I mean, I'm 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.440 from things. I've read them. Under the oppression, you knew 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.280 pretty early on where he were headed. I wanted it. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.640 I wanted to make movies very badly, but I never 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.439 I wasn't around anybody who made them, so I had 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.080 no even though my parents were so into movies, it 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.240 was our experience of movies was kind of like living 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.120 in Brooklyn. We felt both sort of around where things 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.119 were happening, but never it was never actually happening to us. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.600 And it was that feeling, always a feeling outside. And 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:47.840 and I think my father felt that quite a bit. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.240 He felt outside, he felt unrecognized as a writer, novelist, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.840 and uh, and there was always this feeling of like, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.760 not it's not happening here, it's over there. I went 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.199 to Vas. What would you study film? They didn't really 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:06.840 have much of a film program then. I mean they 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.200 had a film studies program. I'd watch movies, but I 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.480 was an English major. Uh, when you finished at Vaster, 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.240 what did you do? I wrote a script? But I've 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.840 never actually seen a script before. I was I like 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.640 printed out. I'd seen them like published, but I didn't 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.240 realize like those were often just transcripts they would retype 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.239 from the movie itself. And it was before any kind 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.440 of like final draft or any formatting programs. So I 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:38.200 was just I got so hung up. I'm pretty anal 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:39.919 about these things. So I was trying to get all 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.600 the tabs right on my typewriter and then on my computer, 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.359 you know. And uh so I was just writing a 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.080 page of months. Yea, my whole experiences tabs and and 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.600 trying to center everything and get them before they had 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.600 those the screenwriting programs. It was awful. And then you're 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.639 printed and realized one was off. And and I wrote 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.000 what became my first movie, uh called Kicking and Screaming. 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:03.639 How old were you Well, I guess I started writing it. 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:08.959 I guess when I was three. Well. I first after college, 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.760 I was a messenger at the New Yorker, which was 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.080 my summer job. And then after I got out of college, 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.480 I guess it was potentially my job. But then I 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.040 moved to Chicago because I had a lot of friends 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.600 are doing improv and theater in Chicago, and I wanted 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.520 to kind of just be around them, and um, he 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.040 needed some laughs. I needed some laughs. Yeah, it was, 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.280 and they moved to Chicago. I did improv a bit too. 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.000 I liked it wasn't that different from writing in a way. 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.719 It was how long were you there? I was there, Uh, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.440 not that long under a year? Um, and then but 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.479 I was writing this script and then I came back 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.000 to New York and set out trying to make it. 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.280 I had two friends from college, uh, Jeremy Kramer and 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:57.640 Jason Blum Jason, yes, And we had all lived together 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.600 in college, Jason and I lived together in Cargo, and 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.440 then we all sort of I said, why don't we, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.239 why don't you produce this, and let's try to make it. Um, 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.800 what was the budget, Well, we didn't even know what. 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:17.560 We still don't know. But when it ended up getting 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.560 made for a million dollars, which was way more than 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.359 I thought it would. But it was made in a 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.680 way that was unexpected, and after it had fallen through 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.520 many many times by this company Trimark, which is a 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.240 video company who wanted maybe to get into sort of 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:37.600 a Mirrormax kind of business. And yeah, and they made 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.200 it for for a million dollars, which again I felt like, 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.399 it's a lot of money for your first Yeah, in 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.320 a way, it was too much. It was it was now. 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.080 I always think about this now, and and I've heard 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.800 Jason said this too. I think now we would have 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.280 just made it because you could with cameras now, the 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.640 digitals cameras. Really, Yeah, I cut, I did cut on film. 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.800 That was I had on kicking, screaming with the UM. 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.320 I had the whole experience of cutting on film and uh, 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.359 all pre digital. It was just as it turned. I 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.119 just worked with a bunch of people, you know, my 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.920 my production company where I was, and it's a generation 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.000 of filmmakers who really don't know anything else. They do 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.439 it because they just don't know anything else. And they 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.480 shot this film for I can't remember, maybe it was 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:26.920 like twelve days, like to six to six day weeks 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.439 and they shoot the film for a hundred and seventy 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.560 five thousand dollars and he just got into Sundance. That's great, 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:35.800 but it's it's it's like, you see the way the 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.560 movie business now is like anything goes, you know, you 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:41.840 just get it up there. Well, there's more opportunity now 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:43.960 because of that that you can do. I mean, I 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.879 made frances Ha digitally with a crew of about seven 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:53.159