1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Noah Bombeck's new film is Marriage Story. It's stunning. When 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: I first saw the film, I could barely find the 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: words to express my reaction. It felt that real, that honest. 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Bomb Beck is known for messy and realistic family dramas. 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: The Squid and the Whale chronicles divorce, Margot at the 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: Wedding explores the relationship between two sisters. The Myrowitz Stories 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: tells of three adult siblings, different mothers, same father, negotiating 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: resentment and love. But Marriage Story puts bomb Beck on 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: a plane with Woody Allen, Barry Levinson, and Mike Nichols. 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: In terms of directing talent. The writing, directing, and acting 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: come together perfectly. Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson and had 13 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: A Bombeck's words with exquisite performances of a couple coming 14 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: apart while parenting a young son. There have been plenty 15 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: of comparisons between Bombeck's own life and his movies, especially 16 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,279 Speaker 1: so with Marriage Story. Bomb Beck and actress Jennifer Jason 17 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: Lee divorced soon after they had a child. But bomb 18 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Beck is quick to say his films are not autobiographical, 19 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: they are personal. He admits that the process of turning 20 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: Beal life into films as part of how he copes 21 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: and makes sense of things. When hard things have happened 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: to be in my life, and I mean not only 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: hard things, but but certainly hard things have happened in 24 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: my life, there is a kind of comfort I think 25 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: in my mind of sort of what would this be 26 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: if we put it in a movie? Um, I think, 27 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: uh something, Um, did you get to know did you 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: know Mike Nichols much? I mean, you work with him, 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: but they worked with him and kept in touch with them. 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: You're so good a working girl though, you know with 31 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: he said when he I met him after Squid in 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: the Whale, and he said it reminded me of why 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: I got into the movie business in the first place, 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: which is revenge. And I thought, I know what he 35 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: means though, because again it's not revenge on a person. 36 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: It's almost like revenge on experience or or And from that, 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: with that movie, it was kind of childhood. It was 38 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: like a way for me to stand up from my 39 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: younger self as an adult now who had a voice 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: that that child didn't have. And I think I do 41 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: think of that sometimes in my life, not necessarily well 42 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: I'm going through it, but sort of maybe soon after. 43 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: If of that, there's a kind of soothing way of 44 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: like what would that be, whether or not it ever 45 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: becomes a scene in a movie or not. Um, I've 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: definitely had that in Like hospital situations were the movie 47 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: I made before the Myerwitz stories. Um, my father had 48 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: been in the hospital for a long time, and I 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: you're close to your dad, I was, yeah, And I mean, 50 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: if I'm imagine you've spent some time in hospitals, it's 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: sort of you know, it's such a I mean not 52 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: unlike the divorce system. It's like the ways you learn 53 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: to function only work in that environment. They don't have 54 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: any practical application outside of that environment, you know, like 55 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: how you work with a nurse or a doctor and 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: then the changing nurse and the knack doctors going on vacation. 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: And I didn't make a movie about it for many 58 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: years later, but I felt like, well, that was a 59 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: certain kind of reappropriating that situation and turning it into 60 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: something else. One of the things, among many things, I'm 61 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: reminded of when I saw your film, because I wrote 62 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: a book about my divorce, not necessarily because I changed 63 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: a lot of details, and I assigned a lot of 64 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: stories and ideas to fictitious characters that I made up 65 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: in in fictional oral histories, because I don't want to 66 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: say too much about specific people. But if your films 67 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: are are are personal but not auto biographical, I'm assuming 68 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: that when you do these films like Squid the Whale 69 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: in Marriage Story, there's a lot you leave out. Uh. 70 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: Is that a process for you of what stays in 71 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: and what doesn't go in? Yeah? It is. And and 72 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: with marriage Story, a lot of it was what I 73 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: discovered in writing it, or once I had a draft 74 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: of it, was that it worked best when I stayed 75 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: on the process and the story of the divorce itself, 76 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: because all the life stuff, as as in your book 77 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: you you write about this wonderfully too, is that the 78 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: life stuff doesn't stop for you to get divorce, even 79 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: though the divorce takes over your life and kind of 80 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: you gotta go to work. Yeah, you have to go 81 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: to work. You still have to be a parent, and 82 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: you have to be a parent, even if it's difficult 83 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: to be with your kid. You're you're now with your 84 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: kid and you're distracted by the divorce. And so I 85 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: felt like I I just have to acknowledge that and 86 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: tell that story and all of those life moments will 87 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: be there, because that is the movie too. And it 88 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: was these other scenes that were more sort of be 89 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: set piece scenes that were kind of just taking and 90 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: there were just other things they were and and so 91 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: I that was the stuff I really stripped away in 92 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: the script stage from marriage story. You wrote it yourself? 93 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: The screen put yeah, completely. Yeah. When you when you 94 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: write something, do you have people who counsel you that 95 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: you respect and you hand them drafts and they you 96 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: get notes from them and I guess from them many. Yeah. 97 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: I show Greta Gerwig, who I lived with, um uh everything, 98 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: and she also is a sounding board even early on 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: when I'm you're married, we're not technically we have a child? Yes, 100 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: so we so you have your current love of your 101 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: life and your child. She's the sounding board for the 102 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: movie about your divorce from your predum kidding, um, well, 103 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: but but just anything we'll say, any any ideas across 104 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: the board, across the board. And I have friends, uh, 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: director friends, writer friends who I who I might uh 106 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: certainly that I'll show early drafts to I bring my 107 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: editor Jen lame in always from early drafts because my 108 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: idea is that we should almost cut the script the 109 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: way we're going to cut the final movie. So I 110 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: um involved, Yeah, so like, let's shoot what we think 111 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: we're really going to use And why do you think 112 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: you do that as opposed to miss Some people don't 113 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: do that, most don't do that. Well. I feel like 114 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: for me, time is so important. Uh. I mean it's 115 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: important for every director, I imagine, but I want to 116 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: have time with these scenes and time for the actors 117 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: and be able. I like to do a lot of 118 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: takes and I want to I want to be able 119 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: to explore, not totally unlike you might in a play 120 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: or something, you know, be able to, you know, get 121 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: as much out of these scenes as we can get 122 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: and not feel like, oh I wish we want to 123 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: know in your heart really matters as opposed to yeah. 124 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: And I find also when I'm working with actors who 125 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: I love, who really when it's really clicking, they're always 126 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: giving me ideas while we're doing it. A lot of 127 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: my direction comes from things they do in a scene 128 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: that gives me an idea of how we could push 129 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: the scene in that direction. So I don't want to 130 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: shoot scenes or things that I'm not going to use 131 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: if I can avoid it. I mean, there's always stuff 132 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: you cut, but if if I can get the script 133 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: is close to what I think the movie is going 134 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: to be, I feel like all the better in the 135 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: movie is an amazing movie. It's an amazing movie. You 136 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: don't you know? You're an enormously talented director, You're a 137 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: enormously talented writer, and you also happen to get the 138 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: two actors that would be, in my mind, everyone's dream 139 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: to do a drama like that. I mean, he's at 140 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: the top of his game. Everybody the things, he's one 141 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: of the five most talented men alive today. And her 142 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: the same thing. She's almost on another planet in terms 143 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: of her range and things she's done. I'm wondering, what's 144 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: the path to them with you? Is it a formal 145 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: process through representation or is it like you're having dinner 146 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: with Barry Levinson and he says, I can call Adam. 147 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: You know what was it? Is it? Well, this is 148 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: my fourth movie with Adam, so I because I knew Madam, 149 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: I knew Adam, I cast Adam in frances hat Off 150 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: an audition and it was before Girls had come out, 151 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: so I hadn't seen him in anything. He just came 152 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: in and I and so I've had a relationship with 153 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: him since then, and um, so it for us and 154 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: we become friends. And what was it about him that, 155 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: if you can, well, he Adam described acting as benign 156 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: rebellion once it was we were doing an interview together 157 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: and he said it, and I just it was one 158 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: of the things where you're doing press, you're all saying 159 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: the same things over and over, and then he suddenly 160 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: said this. I hadn't heard this before, and I thought, 161 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: what a what an interesting, great way to describe what 162 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: an actor does, and also very much what he does, 163 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: which I do find. He's both in serving the material, 164 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: the movie, the story always, but he's always looking for 165 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: true moments, spontaneous things that activate him. And so he 166 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: is pushing constantly, and so he'll and and he'll say 167 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 1: things to me like I think, I'm not going to 168 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: cross my legs in this take, And I know he 169 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: has a reason because it's going to change something for 170 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: him that might have great ripple effects for the scene. 171 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: I may not even know why or hadn't even thought 172 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: about the fact that he was crossing his legs. I 173 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: was maybe thinking or watching something else. And that's he's 174 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: very aware and unaware at the same time. It's that 175 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: conscious unconscious thing that actors do, and it's my favorite 176 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: way to work. He's also he is. He loves rehearsing, 177 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: he loves doing many takes. He knows every bit of 178 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: dialogue down to the ellipse, and he's thought about it 179 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: and he has the the the hesitation as it's scripted. 180 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: He has found his way into it. I mean, it's 181 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: it's um. It really is that thing for I have 182 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: said this, but someone said about poetry that it it 183 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: gives you your own thoughts back with added majesty. And 184 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: I find he gives me back my words and and 185 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: my have to make every film with him, then yeah, 186 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: I know, well I would like to. I mean, he's 187 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: really special. He's also um. He also is you know, 188 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: he's like you know, he's like this. He can talk. 189 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: We we talk about movies in general. It's not all 190 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: about just his performance or He's always very interested in 191 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: what the story is going to be, what the movie 192 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: as a whole. It's not it's not just about you know, 193 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: he's a real collaborator in in the bigger sense too. 194 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: I love that. But what's it like to approach someone 195 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: you've known him for a while now and you are 196 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: friends with him, to approach him as things with him 197 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: are at the boiling point now in terms of his career. 198 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: Is it hard to get him to do you have 199 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: the kind of relationship where he turns to the rest 200 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: of the world and says, I'm talking to Noah on 201 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: the phone and he goes in your direction. Or is 202 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: tough to find a window in his this schedule? Well, 203 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: he's things have to be planned now. He's more carefully, 204 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: but he will make the time because it's something he 205 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: feels strongly. And what about her? How did you approach her? 206 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: She I had known a little bit just over the years. 207 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: We had almost done a thing together, probably about ten 208 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: years ago or something, so I and I always sort 209 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: of felt like, at some point I'm gonna I'll have 210 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: something I feel is right for her, and Adam and 211 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: I talked about it. This was even before the script 212 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: was really written. We talked about, well, who would be 213 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: the right person, you know, for this movie? And she 214 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: was both of our first idea. So I reached out 215 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: to her. I just emailed her and and uh, and 216 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: said I think maybe I have something we could do together. 217 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: And we met for lunch and then she arrived and said, sorry, 218 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: I'm late. I was on the phone with my lawyer. 219 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: I'm going through a divorce, and I thought Jesus, and 220 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,599 Speaker 1: so I thought, well, then this is either going to 221 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: be a great or terrible disaster. To her credit, it was. 222 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: It was great. She she went in that direction. She 223 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: just saw it as a way too, you know, to 224 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: um to take it on. Yeah, her career is so varied. 225 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: I mean, she can she can convey innocence and a 226 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: sweetness and a vulnerability and and uh and uh and 227 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: and I kind of I don't want to I don't 228 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: know what the word is, kind of when she did 229 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: onto this kind of a deadness, kind of an emotional 230 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: neutrality that's like like she's from another planet. You know, 231 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: there's an essence to her that she can manipulate. And 232 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: on screen, she she's one of the few actors that 233 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: I know that comes across a completely different people. When 234 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: she performed yeah, well there's there's a thing scripted. The 235 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: thing that was in the script Um, which I wrote 236 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: thinking about her because she's an actor. In the beginning there, 237 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: it's the closing night of their theater company and and 238 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: their home, and things are tense, and he can't help 239 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: but give her a note even though she's never gonna 240 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: play this part again, He's going to give her a 241 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: note on the on the on the final performance, and 242 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: she says that she has trouble crying on stage. You 243 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: know that What follows is she turns into sobbing in life, 244 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: in the movie, in life, and I felt she could 245 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: both convey the sort of that that that moment of 246 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: that sort of defensive moment of of and then turn 247 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: and just completely open up, you know, within it's it's 248 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: it's you know, it is literally in a turn, she 249 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: turns and starts crying, and that's, you know something Having 250 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: her in mind while I'm writing gives you the idea 251 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: for something like that. You grew up in Brooklyn out 252 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: and your parents got divorced when you were how old? 253 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: I was, uh fourteen when they when they finally my 254 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: father finally moved out. And what did your father do 255 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: for a living? He was a writer, He was a 256 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: teacher in Brooklyn College, and he teached. He he ran 257 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: the creative writing program for a PhD program at Brooklyn College, 258 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: and then he also was a He was a writer, 259 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: a novelist and short story writer. UM, but also did 260 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: film criticism. It was he was sort of that era 261 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: where you kind of did all that, you know, like 262 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: there was that kind of intellectual life where you did 263 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: many things. There was like a mom was a film 264 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: critic as well. My mom became a film critic. She 265 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: was a film critic I should, but but became for me. 266 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: It was later in my life. It was it was 267 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: when I was really when I went to college. Um. 268 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: She also had written fiction and had some stories in 269 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: The New Yorker and had also taught And I mean 270 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: the way my brother and I always described it as 271 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: that art in our family was kind of like religion. 272 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: It was the highest, yeah, and the this sort of 273 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: thing to aim for now when you were growing up. 274 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: Because I asked practically everyone who works in film and 275 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: television and beyond, you know, or if they're in music, 276 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: I asked him regarding their early years in terms of 277 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: music appreciation, what was film and television in your childhood? 278 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: What was that like? Film was a big My parents 279 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: really loved movies, so they took me to a lot 280 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: of movies. Do you want to go see Sorrow in 281 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: the Pity when you were eight years? Well? Kind of, uh, 282 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: but they also were into what I was into. Also. 283 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: My father particularly made a real effort to go to 284 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: you know, I was born in sixty nine, so sort 285 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: of the the early eighties is when I was started 286 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: like really kind of branching out in terms of movies. 287 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: And uh, he would go with me really to anything. 288 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean, we would just go to movies and yeah, 289 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: and what does it matter? Yeah, if it sucks, then 290 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: we learned that. We learned that, and we could and 291 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: we would have you know, I remember seeing all these 292 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: Richard because you know, I love Richard Pryor, and we'd 293 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: go to all these just terrible Richard Pryor movies and 294 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: then he's clearly doing for paycheck. Silver Streak. Silver Streak 295 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: was a pretty good one. But but I remember this 296 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: one called some kind of Hero with Margot Kidder, which 297 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: is I remember we were both so baffled, we couldn't 298 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: believe how bad it was, and um, but that was 299 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: kind of almost as good as and yeah, exactly, and 300 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: just going and sitting and your religion. It was in 301 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: a sense, and he you know, and big he was 302 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: of you know, of the mind that we don't spend 303 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: the extra money on the concession. So it really was 304 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: just the movie. We Where did he grow up? Where 305 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: is he from? He's from Brooklyn to he um. His 306 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: father was a painter, and he grew up in Brooklyn. 307 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: He went to Brooklyn College. He went to New you 308 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: Trick High School, and then he went to Brooklyn College. 309 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: A painter like the painting hanging on the wall or 310 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: the wall it's self. Few paint like the one hanging 311 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: on the wall. And artist an artist. Ye, and your 312 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: mother My mother was her whole family from the South. 313 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: Her name is Georgia Brown. She was named after Georgia, 314 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: the place and h Her father worked for Coca Cola, 315 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 1: so they traveled a lot. Uh. And when I was older, 316 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: her parents were living in Seattle, but they had all 317 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: started in the South. Did you know, I mean, I'm 318 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: from things. I've read them. Under the oppression, you knew 319 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: pretty early on where he were headed. I wanted it. 320 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to make movies very badly, but I never 321 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: I wasn't around anybody who made them, so I had 322 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: no even though my parents were so into movies, it 323 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: was our experience of movies was kind of like living 324 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. We felt both sort of around where things 325 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: were happening, but never it was never actually happening to us. 326 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: And it was that feeling, always a feeling outside. And 327 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: and I think my father felt that quite a bit. 328 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: He felt outside, he felt unrecognized as a writer, novelist, 329 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: and uh, and there was always this feeling of like, 330 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: not it's not happening here, it's over there. I went 331 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: to Vas. What would you study film? They didn't really 332 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: have much of a film program then. I mean they 333 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: had a film studies program. I'd watch movies, but I 334 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: was an English major. Uh, when you finished at Vaster, 335 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: what did you do? I wrote a script? But I've 336 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: never actually seen a script before. I was I like 337 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: printed out. I'd seen them like published, but I didn't 338 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: realize like those were often just transcripts they would retype 339 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,239 Speaker 1: from the movie itself. And it was before any kind 340 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: of like final draft or any formatting programs. So I 341 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: was just I got so hung up. I'm pretty anal 342 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: about these things. So I was trying to get all 343 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: the tabs right on my typewriter and then on my computer, 344 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: you know. And uh so I was just writing a 345 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: page of months. Yea, my whole experiences tabs and and 346 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: trying to center everything and get them before they had 347 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: those the screenwriting programs. It was awful. And then you're 348 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: printed and realized one was off. And and I wrote 349 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: what became my first movie, uh called Kicking and Screaming. 350 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: How old were you Well, I guess I started writing it. 351 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: I guess when I was three. Well. I first after college, 352 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: I was a messenger at the New Yorker, which was 353 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: my summer job. And then after I got out of college, 354 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: I guess it was potentially my job. But then I 355 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: moved to Chicago because I had a lot of friends 356 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: are doing improv and theater in Chicago, and I wanted 357 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: to kind of just be around them, and um, he 358 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: needed some laughs. I needed some laughs. Yeah, it was, 359 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: and they moved to Chicago. I did improv a bit too. 360 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: I liked it wasn't that different from writing in a way. 361 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,719 Speaker 1: It was how long were you there? I was there, Uh, 362 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: not that long under a year? Um, and then but 363 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: I was writing this script and then I came back 364 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: to New York and set out trying to make it. 365 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: I had two friends from college, uh, Jeremy Kramer and 366 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: Jason Blum Jason, yes, And we had all lived together 367 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: in college, Jason and I lived together in Cargo, and 368 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: then we all sort of I said, why don't we, 369 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,239 Speaker 1: why don't you produce this, and let's try to make it. Um, 370 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: what was the budget, Well, we didn't even know what. 371 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: We still don't know. But when it ended up getting 372 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: made for a million dollars, which was way more than 373 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: I thought it would. But it was made in a 374 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: way that was unexpected, and after it had fallen through 375 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: many many times by this company Trimark, which is a 376 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: video company who wanted maybe to get into sort of 377 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: a Mirrormax kind of business. And yeah, and they made 378 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: it for for a million dollars, which again I felt like, 379 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: it's a lot of money for your first Yeah, in 380 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: a way, it was too much. It was it was now. 381 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: I always think about this now, and and I've heard 382 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: Jason said this too. I think now we would have 383 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: just made it because you could with cameras now, the 384 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: digitals cameras. Really, Yeah, I cut, I did cut on film. 385 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: That was I had on kicking, screaming with the UM. 386 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: I had the whole experience of cutting on film and uh, 387 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: all pre digital. It was just as it turned. I 388 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: just worked with a bunch of people, you know, my 389 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: my production company where I was, and it's a generation 390 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: of filmmakers who really don't know anything else. They do 391 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: it because they just don't know anything else. And they 392 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: shot this film for I can't remember, maybe it was 393 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: like twelve days, like to six to six day weeks 394 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: and they shoot the film for a hundred and seventy 395 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars and he just got into Sundance. That's great, 396 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's like, you see the way the 397 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: movie business now is like anything goes, you know, you 398 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: just get it up there. Well, there's more opportunity now 399 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: because of that that you can do. I mean, I 400 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: made frances Ha digitally with a crew of about seven 401 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: people because I felt like, in a sense, it was 402 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: like making a first movie I never made. And but 403 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: I thought, also, why didn't I do it now with 404 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: everything I know and and that I've learned, UM and 405 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: use the the fact that we're kind of under the 406 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: radar as uh, there would be certain limitations, but the 407 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: days there would be freedoms. Well, what I did is 408 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: I shot for sixty days because I because it was 409 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: so much less to shoot. It's like the film version 410 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: of like if you dig down, you'll into the earth, 411 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: you'll end up in China, you know, like it was. 412 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: It was it was like, we'll actually have more freedom 413 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: in certain ways because nobody knows we're doing this and 414 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: we're so small and um and we shot on consumer 415 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: digital camera. We shot on the five D. It was 416 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: black and white. And it was great. I mean and 417 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: and you know it was. And my feeling was, I'm 418 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: not going to do this to make it like a 419 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: B side. I'm gonna do this because it's I think 420 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: this is the best thing for this movie and will 421 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: be the best version of this movie lower bomb Beck 422 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: co wrote Francis ha with his partner Greta Gerwig. She 423 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: also start in the movie. Bomb Beck is known for 424 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: wanting a lot of takes from his actors. To hear 425 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: from one of those actors, take a listen to my 426 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: conversation with Jeff Daniels. I gotta create. I gotta create. 427 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: You can't ever make the job. I can't once you 428 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: start to understand, you're creating a character in a musical 429 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: in a community theater or college or whatever. In Boom Boom, 430 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: you start to go down that road, it's like the sharks. 431 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: You gotta keep moving. My full conversation with Jeff Daniels 432 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: is that here's the Thing, dot Org. He starred in bombs, 433 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: The Squid and the Whale. More on that film coming up. 434 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 435 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: Thing promoting marriage story. Noah bomb Beck has been deflecting 436 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: questions about his own personal life. When The Squid and 437 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: the Whale came out, a story about a Brooklyn family 438 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: and what happens when the parents divorced, Bombeck had to 439 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: deal with the reaction of his own parents. They knew 440 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: it was coming. I mean it was again because it 441 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: was different. It wasn't our situations, but but there were 442 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: a few of it in there. The milia was was familiar, 443 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: and they were good sports about it. I mean they 444 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: I think one thing that was hard for them, which 445 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: I didn't anticipate, and I was that people would assume 446 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: then that things that were in the movie were true 447 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: and talk to them about it as if they were 448 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: true things. So I I guess I hadn't thought of 449 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: it that way, that, oh, well, this will all be 450 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: perceived is true in their lives from other people, So 451 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: that could be a drag. I was. I'm sure friends dinner. Yeah, 452 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: like all we didn't know that was going on in 453 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: the house and it's well, it wasn't really or that 454 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: I didn't. Uh, I guess I didn't anticipate when I 455 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: when I when I was working on it. Now, let 456 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: me say, you know, your ex is one of my 457 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: favorite actresses I had, like, she's one of my top 458 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: three fantastic I had one of the greatest experiences of 459 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: my life. I've always said that working with her, she 460 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: was just so free and inventive. Miami Blues, Yeah, I mean, 461 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: I'll do that movie with her and I learned from her, 462 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: which I thought to myself, I wasn't. I wasn't prepared 463 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: for that when I was working back then. But what 464 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: are the pitfalls for you of you of your primary 465 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: of your roommate wife would have you your loved one 466 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: being an actress, senior director, what would you warn other 467 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: directors about that? Well, I mean in both the Jennifer 468 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: and Grada they're both wonderful actors, and they're also they're 469 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: both filmmakers. I mean the Jennifer when I had met Jennifer, 470 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: she just made the Anniversary Party she had directed with 471 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: Alan Cumming, which is is a really great movie. They 472 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: both have a kind of incredible ability of being very present, 473 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: as you're saying, like free and present as actors, um, 474 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: but also their storytellers. I guess in that way, you know, 475 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: and um and gret as amazing director and writer and 476 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: and so I guess I never thought of it so 477 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: much as like director actor in that in the window 478 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: I always wondering. I always think of it in terms of, 479 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, how great to be if you're going to 480 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: be with an actress, it's great to be with and 481 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: you can't always pick them this way. One is very talented. Yeah, 482 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: I found it. But an increasing number of people they 483 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: just they realized, not that this was either good or bad, 484 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: It just it just occurred. Was they discovered they like 485 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: directing more than acting, and the acting can sort of 486 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: be less and less and less defined material to access 487 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: material that is worthwhile, you know, Dustin Hoffman said to 488 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: me in a meeting one so a million years ago 489 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: he said to me, Alec, we're all in line. Some 490 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: of us are just in a shorter line to get 491 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: that good script and that good material. Well, yeah, and 492 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: I think in both cases they both have written things 493 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: that they've acted in to give themselves that that opportunity. 494 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: It's um uh, it's actually as you were saying that, 495 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: I realized you've acted with both of them. Yeah, we 496 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: did what we did. What He's a movie. But I 497 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: remember I love doing them. I love Woody and I 498 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: love working with him. And it was always like and 499 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: what a treat to work with younger actors who I've 500 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: always so Keena. But while I still have you and 501 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: want to ask you, so you know, in my life 502 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: I have worked with great directors, sometimes very small roles, 503 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: and you come in and they know very well what 504 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: your function in the pieces. They know the whole panoply 505 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: of the whole thing. And I'm not somebody who's ever 506 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: been a big enough movie star in the old school 507 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: way to walk in and go we need to fire Bob. 508 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: You just get rid of the director. But my point 509 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: is is, when I'm sitting down with you in the 510 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: earliest stages, do you think that that's one for you 511 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: is to help that person to understand what you want. Yeah, 512 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: I think, well, I'm often interested in how the actor 513 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: first comes at it without me saying anything. I mean, 514 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: because I think a lot of it is in the 515 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: rhythm of the lines, and it's very dialogical musicality of 516 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: the lines, and and I think that helps the actor 517 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: find it. I find usually when actors are having trouble 518 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: with a scene, it's because they have the line wrong, 519 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: or they've dropped a line, or they've inverted words. It 520 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: falls flat, and I'll even sometimes forget what the real 521 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: line is and be trying to figure it out, and 522 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: then I'll look at the script and I'll realize, oh, 523 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: it's inverted. Yeah, you're doing And I find uh, I 524 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: find it helps them and me then to kind of 525 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: hear the scene properly. There's a lot of blocking and 526 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: physical stuff that I also find can help him. It's 527 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: like what Elia Kazan would say. He was a prop director, 528 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: you know that they ask him, you know about how 529 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: we how we directed, and he said, I just come 530 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: up with a lot of good props and then the actors. 531 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: I find that takes care of a lot for the actors. 532 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: Um But unless it's absolutely wrong for the story. Um, 533 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: I want the actor to suggest in what they're doing, 534 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: suggests life beyond this scene, so that there's in a 535 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: different movie, in the Altman version or whatever we might 536 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: go with that person, and that that that wouldn't be 537 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: so surprised. Yeah, because you know, particularly if you have 538 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: you know, really interesting actor doing a smaller role, it's 539 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: you want all that stuff, you know, And I mean 540 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: it's not right for say, the evaluator who comes and 541 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: watches a marriage story of the woman who comes to 542 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: see observe Charlie and Henry have dinner and in his apartment. 543 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: The whole idea of that is there's no life suggested 544 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 1: beyond that scene. You know, it's it's it's it's she's inscrutable. Um. 545 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: But I wanted that from alan Alda ray Leota that 546 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: I mean in a sense that you know, there they nailed. 547 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: When I see Reagan, I'm gonna go, you know, ray 548 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: with all the things you've done with guns and shovels 549 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: and horrible things you've done to people in movies, you know, 550 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: legendary movies, I go, but I think this is probably 551 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: your most terrified. I mean, he reminded me so much 552 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: of this. My first lawyer who I fired in my book, 553 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: Bob Kaufman. I'm going to say his name. He terrified me. 554 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: We go into a conference and as I would recite 555 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: my story, said, well then they she did this, and 556 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: he literally, I mean that, you never saw a man seethe. 557 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: He looked at his two guys. Next, I think Jesus crushed, 558 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: like everything I said was like another log on the 559 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: fire of his battle scene. He was gonna go and 560 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: to cleave these people, you know. And i'mber saying to myself, 561 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: he's I don't think I could be around this guy 562 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: too much. So I fired Ray and I hired Allan 563 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: the other way with the female Alan Alda. But but 564 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: the reason I say this to you is because this 565 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: is something where do you see? And maybe I'm projecting 566 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: or i'm or I'm I'm in laying a lot of 567 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,479 Speaker 1: my own personal things, like I made films. I did 568 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: this film, The Edge, with Tony Hopkins and Lee Tamahori 569 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: was the director. We had David nat screenplay. I was 570 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: so excited to go do this movie, and Tammahori was 571 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: somebody who didn't understand really the psychologics of Mammot's writing. 572 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: It was rather baroque. It was very memedy, and and 573 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: whenever he'd come across something he didn't understand, he'd cut it. 574 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: So he saw he was he was a key wee. 575 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: I'll do my bad dialector. He'd say, David does tend 576 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: to go on a bit hit ye twenty one, althought 577 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,239 Speaker 1: we cut these first full speeches, and I thought to myself, well, 578 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: the way that David tends to go on in these 579 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: speeches is the very reason I'm here is to play 580 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: the kind of weirdness these guys are in it like 581 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: a weird zone. Everyone's taken something maybe and we're all weird. 582 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: And I like that. Well, we did that movie and 583 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: he takes it, makes it sevent psychological thriller and thirty 584 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: percent action adventure from and flips it in the cutting room. 585 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: But one moment was we're there and again this was 586 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: really one of the most painful moments of my life. 587 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: Is I've got to sell Tony on the idea of 588 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: what I think the scenes about, because he's not going 589 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: to say it. He's turning into us, going, men, what 590 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: do you think he's going on here? He wanted us 591 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: to direct the scene. But the point is is when 592 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: I come to work with you, I want so maybe 593 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: this is wrong, the nature of actors becoming so self directing. 594 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: I want to come in and I want you to 595 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: tell me. I want you to tell me. Do you 596 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: think that that's wrong? You want the actors to tell 597 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: you also what they know I want. I think that's 598 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: that's what I would hope actors come in. Uh. It 599 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're not gonna have ideas, you know, 600 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: it's but I think you hope they would well it 601 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: wanted to decipher what you want to do. Yes, yeah, um, 602 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: but I Cada is almost like creating sort of not 603 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: unlike we're saying about Rob Ryan or what we're saying 604 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: about Kasan. It's like create a kind of structure around them, 605 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: which is both in the dialogue and knowing your lines 606 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: and and like I said, having the lines down, uh, 607 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: and you know blocking that's very specific, and then then 608 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about that stuff. You can 609 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: be free within those parameters, and that it actually opens 610 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: you up because you're not carrying, you're not trying to 611 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: figure out how to make it work, that you're going 612 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: with it. It doesn't mean of course if an actor, 613 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: if somebody doesn't work for an actor, you know, I 614 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: don't feel I wouldn't get up on this line. I 615 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: want to stay. You know that, that of course should 616 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: be I mean I listened always to that because it's 617 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you have to believe it. How much do 618 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: you luxuriate in terms of composition and shooting or you 619 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: differ very often to your cinematographer. How much of it 620 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: that to you? And how much is that as them? Um? 621 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it is a collaboration. I mean 622 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: I I the way I generally do it is I um, 623 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, and if it's somebody I've worked with before, 624 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: we might have a shorthand and you know, sort of 625 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: going into it. But I we kind of take the 626 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: script and I go through every scene together in prep storyboard. 627 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: I don't I do sometimes, but I'm such a bad 628 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: drawer that I it frustrates me. So I end up 629 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: more shot listing um and doing little drawings and like 630 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, things like like football players or things. And 631 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: but but what I do is, in some ways I 632 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: describe how I'm pictured the scene, and so I will 633 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: give a kind of first pass on maybe he gets 634 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: up here, he goes over there, this is the and 635 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: and then he'll respond Robbie Ryan in the case of 636 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: Meerwitz and marriage story, and he'll have his own take 637 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: and say, but what if this or or he'll say 638 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: that sounds right to me your um, And we'll kind 639 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: of do a first pass going through the movie that way, 640 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: but I will give my first sort of interpretation visual 641 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: interpretation of every scene, and then we'll do a second 642 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: pass now with our notes of the whole movie and 643 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: see we still agree with what we did the first time, 644 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: which also will accompany then having locations and knowing now 645 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: what the locations are, and things can will always change 646 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: or or can change. Sometimes you find the location that 647 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: matches your you know what was in your head, but 648 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: often you find a location that gives you new ideas 649 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: or uh. And then then I will have him in 650 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: the rehearsal with me, often even shooting it on video, 651 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: so that way when we're working with the actors and 652 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: and to sending the actors, that will also then. So 653 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: usually by the time we're shooting, we've done at least 654 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: three passes of the whole movie, a kind of visual storyboard. 655 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: Do you miss film? I shot on film. I shot 656 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: up through green Burg, I shot everything on film. Then 657 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: Francis Mistress America and while we're young, I shot all digitally. 658 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: Marriage Story. Marriage Story is thirty. Yeah that's great. Um, 659 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: you have many pots on the stove, you know, kind 660 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: of other things you want to do? Or does it 661 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: come at you out of nowhere? I you, I would say, 662 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: up for the last sense, from squid to marriage story, 663 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: I would say, I've always had there's always a thing 664 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: in the queue that's just finding its way. You know, 665 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: as I'm finishing a movie, I'm just starting to think 666 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: about the next thing. And this is the first time 667 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: I've I've got nothing. I'm depleted. Going out on a 668 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: good note, though, I'm depleted. So you want a marriage story. 669 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: You've had a great career. I mean it's my tenth movie. 670 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: I think that's a good way. That's a good round. 671 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: I'll just keep announcing my retirement and then on retiring. 672 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: But you don't have anything like but yeah, this cigarette 673 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: is I actually stubbed this one out and I didn't 674 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: really like the other one. So I'm going to have 675 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: to two sticks together. Yes, figure it out. Yeah, noah, bomback, 676 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: whatever comes next? I'll be there. Marriage Story is in 677 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: theaters and on Netflix. This is Alec Baldwin and you're 678 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: listening to here's the Thing.