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Speaker 1: Welcome to a special one pm petition, a big group

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Speaker 1: kick off live right here on giants dot com. Pollttino,

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Speaker 1: John Schmilk. Why are we starting late? Well, it's simple,

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Speaker 1: I guess the two thous eighteen off season has officially

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Speaker 1: begun from a coverage perspective, because we had a chance

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Speaker 1: to meet with the Giants assistant coaches and coordinators today. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the first chance really to get up close and personal

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Speaker 1: with these guys, Paul and have a conversation with them,

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Speaker 1: learn about their ideas about football. Of course, given the

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Speaker 1: fact that the players haven't been back yet, are you

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Speaker 1: limited and what you can kinda ask these guys and

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Speaker 1: what they can talk about and what they know, but

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Speaker 1: still some good stuff. Will share that with you off

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Speaker 1: the top of the show. Then we'll have Bill ROBINOWITZI

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Speaker 1: covers Ohio State. He'll be joining us at one thirty

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Speaker 1: to disgust the buck eyes that are coming out in

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Speaker 1: this excuse me this year's draft, and I'll apologize ahead

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Speaker 1: of time. Folks them either fighting a cold or the

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Speaker 1: start of allergy season. I'm not quite sure which one

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Speaker 1: it is, but it's one of the two. So if

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Speaker 1: I happen to Hacker we'se or cough for sneeze on

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Speaker 1: the air. I apologize in advance. I will do my

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Speaker 1: best to use that cough button liberally. So Paul from

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Speaker 1: the assistant coaches today, UH, a couple of individual notes

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Speaker 1: for guys that I'll get to in a in a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but specifically, the thing that jumped out of

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Speaker 1: me in terms of a big picture, the thing that

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Speaker 1: was shared by all the coaches is that they're going

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Speaker 1: to allow what these players do well to dictate what

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Speaker 1: they do on both sides of the ball. Something James

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Speaker 1: Betcherff said. It's something how Hunter, the offensive line coach said,

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Speaker 1: it's something Mike Schula said. They're gonna use their players

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Speaker 1: skill set to determine what they do. And this will

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Speaker 1: be an offensive and defensive scheme that is based around

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Speaker 1: what the players show they're good at, not just in

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Speaker 1: the spring, but in training camp. So this will be

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Speaker 1: a work in progress as these coaches learn what the

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Speaker 1: players are gonna excel at well. The players don't get here,

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Speaker 1: Jie Monday. And that's part of why they're talking that way,

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Speaker 1: because they truly haven't met these guys. All they've done

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Speaker 1: is study film. I mean even even Mike Shula, who

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Speaker 1: is the new offensive coordinator, said he's looked at Davis

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Speaker 1: Webb's tape. He does know something about him, but there's

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Speaker 1: still very little there, and he's looking forward to getting

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Speaker 1: Davis in the building to where they can actually begin

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Speaker 1: the off season program and do things on the field

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Speaker 1: so he can really learn more about him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the problem when you have a new head

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Speaker 1: coaching staff. They're starting from square one. UM. I will

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Speaker 1: say this, I we agree much more with you on

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Speaker 1: the defensive side of the ball than the offensive side

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Speaker 1: of the ball. I do think you're absolutely right on defense.

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Speaker 1: It's clear that Betcher is going to run a very

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Speaker 1: fluid scheme. He said, you may see us line up

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Speaker 1: differently on every single snap because that's what he does.

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Speaker 1: We've tried to tell you this before, and so you're right.

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Speaker 1: There's no question. They got to see what these guys

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Speaker 1: do well, and that's how they're going to fit into

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Speaker 1: this fluid defense. Offensively, I don't know that. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that I got a real indicative feeling yet from

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Speaker 1: from Shula. I really don't. I think he still seems

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Speaker 1: to be very curious, and I don't know, if I

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Speaker 1: read that as deeply as you did, I suppose what

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Speaker 1: you said is possible. He certainly said Beckham is the

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Speaker 1: key element in the offense. He's the go to guy,

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Speaker 1: and you gotta get other guys the ball as well,

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Speaker 1: and you want to try to spread the field and

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Speaker 1: use all areas of the field to keep defenses guessing.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know that he gave me enough of

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Speaker 1: crumbs to delineate. Yeah, I didn't get that, you said.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get that so much from Shula. I got

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Speaker 1: that from how Hunter more the offensive line coach. And

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Speaker 1: we're actually eliminated in terms of who was there today.

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Speaker 1: Craig Johnsvan wasn't available, and tight Taylor wasn't available. So really,

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Speaker 1: of the offensive coaches, you'll len the Wells. You have

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Speaker 1: Ben Wilkerson, who was the assistant offensive line coach. I'll Hunter,

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Speaker 1: who's the offensive line coach that was there on the

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Speaker 1: offensive side of the ball. Remember, Mike Shula is not

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Speaker 1: just the offensive coordinator, is also the quarter the quasi

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks coaches. Well, so limited in terms of who was

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Speaker 1: there on offense. But you know how Hunter talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about using the power and the zone schemes,

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Speaker 1: and they're very flexible in terms of what they're gonna

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Speaker 1: use these a lot of different things. But he doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to assign positions the guys in the offensive line.

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Speaker 1: He wants to see when they come in and they

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Speaker 1: will play the best five guys and put them where

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Speaker 1: they fit in best on the offensive line. That is true.

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Speaker 1: But then once he finds out where they fit, he

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Speaker 1: was very specific about where my starters are. They're not

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Speaker 1: they're not gonna learn other positions. But the backups have

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Speaker 1: to be versatile. Yes, when you get to six, seven

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Speaker 1: and eight on your offensive line roster, those guys have

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Speaker 1: to know all the positions, he said, my starting five,

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Speaker 1: I want them to be aware of what everybody else

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Speaker 1: on the line is doing, but I want them working

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Speaker 1: exclusively at their spot. They don't need to be wasting

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Speaker 1: time working at other spots. That is something quite different

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Speaker 1: than what we've seen around here in recent years, where,

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Speaker 1: quite frankly, a lot of times starters like pew Or

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Speaker 1: like Fluker, like Brett Jones, like Western Richburg, you would

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Speaker 1: see these guys sometimes taking first team snaps, even though

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Speaker 1: it may not have been a whole lot, they would

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Speaker 1: take first team snaps at more than one position. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, in addition to that, going back

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Speaker 1: real quick um to the defensive side of the ball, Paul,

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Speaker 1: I think that's where we kind of got more of

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Speaker 1: the meat potatoes out of this day because they're more code,

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Speaker 1: more coaches there, and I think it's you know, a

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Speaker 1: little bit more of a transition. You know, Pat Schremer

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Speaker 1: such a close grip on this offense, and Mike Shila

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Speaker 1: made that point the press conference that he can talk

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Speaker 1: about it, but and he said this a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: he sees himself as the extension of the coach. So

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Speaker 1: make no mistake, you know, Mike Shila might not have

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Speaker 1: the title of offensive coordinator, he's the offensive coordinator in

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Speaker 1: terms of the guy that's really controlling the offense. What

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Speaker 1: did I say, said Mike, I'm sorry. Pat Schremer might

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Speaker 1: not have the title of offensive coordinator, he's the head coach,

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Speaker 1: but he in effect is the guy that's designing and

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Speaker 1: running this offense, and he will run it through. Mike

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Speaker 1: Shuler will take I think a lot of the responsibilities

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Speaker 1: in the the leg work, the dirty work, the blue

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Speaker 1: collar work, office plate. So he can also obviously execute

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Speaker 1: the role of head coach on the team, which is

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Speaker 1: a big part of it. But we already know he's

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Speaker 1: good a call plays. He made that point when he

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Speaker 1: got hired. I did expect telling a lot from Mike

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Speaker 1: Chuela today, just because Pat Shermer is the guy who's

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Speaker 1: going to run the show and it's gonna be his offense.

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Speaker 1: And quite frankly, to try to expand on any substance

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Speaker 1: that Shula gave us in as presser, I really couldn't

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Speaker 1: do it because there wasn't anything else there besides what

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Speaker 1: we've already talked about. Uh, there was certainly a lot

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Speaker 1: more there on the defensive side. I will say this though,

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Speaker 1: Um I don't think there's any doubt that bringing in

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Speaker 1: assistant coach Wilkinson to help out how Hunter on the

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Speaker 1: offensive line. I did get a feel from coach Wilkinson,

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Speaker 1: how he said in other spots where he's been his

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Speaker 1: playing experience was a very important conduit for him to

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Speaker 1: get guys to buy in to whatever it was that

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Speaker 1: the coaching staff was trying to get them to do. Now,

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Speaker 1: how Hunter, folks, if you've ever seen him, he's a

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Speaker 1: rather skinny, commutative man looks like he could be a

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Speaker 1: punt uh, Hunter could be could be uh the uncle

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Speaker 1: of Lance Meadow for that matter. In terms of physical stature,

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Speaker 1: it looks like a punter that he does an offensive

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Speaker 1: line Yeah so so quite honestly, Uh, I could understand

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Speaker 1: the believability. You know, if he's talking to some three

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Speaker 1: pound offensive lineman about how to block a blitzing linebacker,

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Speaker 1: I can see where they might WinCE in him and say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: how many weeties have you had this morning? You know,

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Speaker 1: I could get I'm just having a little fun here

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Speaker 1: with the perception. But coach Wilkinson is a big dude.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, He's a big, well built, big frame guy.

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Speaker 1: And and he did say that he thought it was

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Speaker 1: advantageous that he had played the game, and guys seemed

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Speaker 1: to really relate to that. So I think the combination

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Speaker 1: of the smarts of coach Hunter and and the experience

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Speaker 1: of coach Wilkinson and how he will relate to players

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Speaker 1: will be very important. And and specifically, Eric Flower was

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot, as you could imagine making the

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Speaker 1: adjustment from left tackle to right tackle, and Hunter's comment

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Speaker 1: was he thinks that Flowers is athletic enough to make

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Speaker 1: that adjustment. Obviously it's going to be in adjustment. It

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Speaker 1: will be a process too. He made it it will big,

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Speaker 1: He made it very clear. But he did say I

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Speaker 1: think he is athletic enough to do what needs to

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Speaker 1: be done on that side of the line. And that's

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Speaker 1: pretty much, uh, the extent of the most significant offensive

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Speaker 1: line talk that we had. Yeah, and he said I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what he said. He spoke Dereic Flowers on

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Speaker 1: the phone. Didn't want us to share the details of

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Speaker 1: those conversations, which is understandable. But yeah, that move is

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's gonna be tough and it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a challenge. And he made the point now too that

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Speaker 1: there's really no difference in the difficulty between the left

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Speaker 1: and the right side and the type of assignments you have.

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Speaker 1: It's just a matter of changing your footwork and changing

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Speaker 1: your hands and that sort of stuff. Now onto the

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Speaker 1: defensive side of the ball. Uh, got to a couple

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Speaker 1: of details I thought with um Gary Emmanuel, who I

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Speaker 1: think he gave some good stuff on the defensive line.

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Speaker 1: But first on Betcher, we mentioned a couple of things

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Speaker 1: over he Um He talked about, you know, he wants

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Speaker 1: his defense is to be fast, physical and smart. I

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Speaker 1: think all coordinators want their defenses to be fast, physical

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Speaker 1: and smart. Hope. So he said he will he'll mold

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Speaker 1: his defense to what the players do. Um. So, I

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Speaker 1: don't think there was anything new and special, at least

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Speaker 1: from what I could see from better I grab my

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Speaker 1: wrong notebooks on my notes in front of it. Did

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Speaker 1: anything else come up to you? Paul? And and that, uh,

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Speaker 1: that really caught your ear? Um, A couple of things

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Speaker 1: actually want is um. He's talking about the style of

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Speaker 1: players that were brought in and obviously the Cardinals that

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Speaker 1: they have brought in, led by Martin and and Morrow

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Speaker 1: uh significant and that those guys absolutely positively already understand

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Speaker 1: what it is he wants to do and they will

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Speaker 1: help spread the word through the locker room, at least

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Speaker 1: on the defensive side of the ball. And he said,

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Speaker 1: even more than knowing the scheme, it's the importance of

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Speaker 1: understanding the culture that you want to have in the

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Speaker 1: lost room. And he kind of really emphasized that because

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Speaker 1: he was asked about the scheme knowledge and he kind

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Speaker 1: of took the question and turned over. He said, well,

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Speaker 1: those are the type of guys we want that are smart,

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Speaker 1: that are hard workers, that can send an example for

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Speaker 1: the rest of the guys. And he focused on that

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Speaker 1: a lot more than he did the whole scheme knowledge

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Speaker 1: that I thought he made it very clear that he

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Speaker 1: does not view himself as Houdini. He's not a magician

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Speaker 1: coming in here, and he's going to scheme the Giants

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Speaker 1: to being a better defense. And that was this quote

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Speaker 1: he said, We're not gonna hang our hat on our scheme.

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Speaker 1: We're going to hang our hat on our players. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's very significant because what did we

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Speaker 1: learn from Dave Gettleman and Pat Shermer during the offseason, John,

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Speaker 1: We learned that those guys wanted certain types of players.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't just their talent, their ability, their skill set,

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Speaker 1: it was also they want certain kinds of guys who

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Speaker 1: are going to provide the correct attitude, the correct teamwork,

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Speaker 1: the correct leadership, the correct effort on the field that

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Speaker 1: encompasses a winning ball club. And I think you can

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Speaker 1: see that thread go right from Gettleman to Shermer, to

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Speaker 1: the assistant coaches and specifically Betcher. It's very obvious with

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Speaker 1: him the way he talked about having guys who want

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Speaker 1: to do whatever it takes. And it's not about necessarily,

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Speaker 1: you know, constructing a blueprint on the field of xs

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Speaker 1: and ohs to win the game. It's about all the

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Speaker 1: kinds of things that you have to do to provide

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Speaker 1: the right atmosphere and environment a couple other things. I thought, John,

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Speaker 1: as long as I have my notes in front of me,

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Speaker 1: he mentioned Eli Apple scouted him when he was coming

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Speaker 1: out of Ohio State, loves his skill set. It is

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Speaker 1: quite clear he loves Eli Apple's skill set. Clean slate.

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Speaker 1: As we've heard again from other Giants front office people,

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Speaker 1: Eli Apple has a clean slate. Day one starts when

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Speaker 1: he gets here on Monday. But he was very excited

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Speaker 1: to talk about what Elie Apple's skills are and secondary

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Speaker 1: coach and Muro said the same exact thing. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: that you know, so moving forward, unless something changes, you

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Speaker 1: can pretty much count on Apple be in a big

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Speaker 1: part of that secondary. And then I thought the other

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Speaker 1: thing was Landed Collins. Uh, it was better that that.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was a good quote, good call on that.

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Speaker 1: Very clear to me that that Betcher views Landing Collins

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Speaker 1: if not the heart of this defense. He's gonna be

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Speaker 1: one of the main arteries. But he's not Deon Bichanon though,

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Speaker 1: and he was pretty clear about that. He's going to

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Speaker 1: be the safety. He's not gonna be the linebacker. No,

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Speaker 1: he is not a linebacker. But they're gonna ask him

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Speaker 1: to play single high too high box man to man

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Speaker 1: on the on on the tight end. He made the

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Speaker 1: point that that type of versatile player is what gives

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Speaker 1: offense is trouble. So expectancy landon Collins all over the

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Speaker 1: place on the field this year, I think, I think,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna have to see more in training camp

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Speaker 1: John when they start to practice. I think he's gonna

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Speaker 1: be more utilized as intrallo role was later in Roles

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Speaker 1: career with the Giants, probably not as much in the

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Speaker 1: slot though probably not as much, but he'll be I

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Speaker 1: think what we'll see not so much in the slot,

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Speaker 1: but we'll see him covering tight ends in that role.

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Speaker 1: But he'll be high, he'll be low, as you said,

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Speaker 1: and and in that regard, I think that's what we're

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Speaker 1: gonna see. We're not going to see a pseudo linebacker

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Speaker 1: out of Collins. I suspect. I suspect based on what

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Speaker 1: we saw with Arizona. He probably has that in mind

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Speaker 1: for maybe the third safety. Whoever the third safety is

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Speaker 1: going to be, that might wind up being the pseudo linebacker.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't be Andrew Adams. Maybe it could be he's physical,

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Speaker 1: he's tough, He's a draft be a draft pick, could

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Speaker 1: be even be a free agent that still comes down

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Speaker 1: the pike. But I got the feeling because I don't

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Speaker 1: think that position is going away. I think he's going

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Speaker 1: to keep the position. It's not gonna be Collins. And

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Speaker 1: he used Tony Jefferson as a compassion for how he

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Speaker 1: wanted to use landon Collins. And Jefferson was an All

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Speaker 1: Pro or at least a Pro bowler. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if he was an All pronoun but he's at least

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Speaker 1: a Pro bowler when he was in Arizona. So he

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Speaker 1: talked about that um talking to UH coach Mac, the

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Speaker 1: linebackers coach. He talked about how Alikoglu obviously be a

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Speaker 1: three down linebacker, but finding that other three down nickel

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Speaker 1: off the ball linebacker is a competition and b J.

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Speaker 1: Goodson it would be the next step in the progression

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Speaker 1: for him, but he has to win that job and

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Speaker 1: prove he can do that. Um, and then I take

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Speaker 1: a chance out to Gary Emmanuel and I thought it

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Speaker 1: was interesting. And we've kind of talked about this a

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Speaker 1: little bit already, Paul, and he confirmed it for me.

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Speaker 1: This is not gonna be as big as an adjustment

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Speaker 1: for these guys going from the fourth three to the

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Speaker 1: three fours. A lot of people are making it out

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Speaker 1: to be because this is not your dad's three or

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Speaker 1: four defense where you're asking your three defensive lineman two

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Speaker 1: gap people and take up lockers. I literally asked them

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Speaker 1: straight up. So you're telling these guys, even in your

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Speaker 1: three four based defense, you want your three defensive lineman

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Speaker 1: to get into a gap and get up the field

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Speaker 1: and attack. He goes, absolutely, we want them to be

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Speaker 1: an instinctual football player, get up the field and try

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Speaker 1: to make the play. That's the exact type of thing

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Speaker 1: they asked for from the guys in the four three.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think that's going to be as big

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Speaker 1: of a transition as some people have made it out today.

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Speaker 1: I think I think one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: gleaned from from talking to all of them, and I

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Speaker 1: kind of I'm gonna meet Loaf this statement together. The

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Speaker 1: Giants defensive players are not going to be learning traditional positions.

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Speaker 1: For example, the defensive ends who are going to be

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Speaker 1: uh part of the linebacking slash defensive end pass rushing

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Speaker 1: edge rushing type of scheme will guess what they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be with the defensive line guys the first few days

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Speaker 1: of the week, and then when they get to the

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Speaker 1: sub package in the third down packages, they're gonna go

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Speaker 1: to the linebackers. And I actually asked, um, who do

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Speaker 1: I think? I asked Gary Emanuel that I said, how

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Speaker 1: you gonna work this? Because bet youer said specifically, Crean

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Speaker 1: Martin is gonna be in the line back room. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, hold on a second. When I looked at

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Speaker 1: the cards those tape, he had his hand in the

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Speaker 1: dirt more than he stood up. So I actually, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure. I'm not sure if you were staying there

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Speaker 1: or not. But I went to Gary Manuel and I said, coach,

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Speaker 1: I got a question, and this is I honestly, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. He said, cream as a linebacker, Yes, back

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Speaker 1: dude in his hand that dirt all the time? How

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Speaker 1: you know, how does that work? How didn't work? Then

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Speaker 1: he said, look the first two days of the week

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Speaker 1: of practice, you'll be with the linebackers. Then when we

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Speaker 1: do our sub package day on Friday, whatever day it

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Speaker 1: happens to be this year, we're gonna have the off

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Speaker 1: the bowl linebackers in one room, and then you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have your edge rushers, which will include some guys that

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Speaker 1: are traditionally in the linebacker room in a separate group.

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Speaker 1: So these guys are gonna move back and forth. You're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, yes, and you know, to be honest with you, um.

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Speaker 1: One of the concepts or the base core of what

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Speaker 1: one of the assistants told me, and I can't remember

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Speaker 1: now which one it was because I talked to several

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Speaker 1: of them, but one of one of the core concepts

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Speaker 1: for this Giant's defense is going to be once they

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Speaker 1: proved to the coaching staff that they understand what it

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Speaker 1: is that they're supposed to do, they're gonna be given

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Speaker 1: the freedom, at least some of the players will. Olivier

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Speaker 1: Vernon will be one of them to do some of

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Speaker 1: his own pre snap motion. He will be allowed to

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Speaker 1: improvise because what he will be told on a certain

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Speaker 1: play is this is how we're gonna line it up

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Speaker 1: and this is what you're supposed to do at the snap.

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Speaker 1: It's okay if you want to do a few things

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Speaker 1: to show something in pre snap motion. And frankly, we

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Speaker 1: saw that from Chandler Jones on tape last year. Yes,

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Speaker 1: do it on your own if you want to, but

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Speaker 1: just make sure when the ball is snapped, you're in

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Speaker 1: the right position, in the right formation, in the right stance,

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Speaker 1: and that you're prepared to do what it is we've

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Speaker 1: asked you to do. But but pre snap, if you

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Speaker 1: want to be a little funky and you want to

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Speaker 1: do And I even said to one of the coaches,

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Speaker 1: I said, so, basically what Peyton Manning used to do

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Speaker 1: on offense, you watch some of your veteran defensive players

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Speaker 1: to do on defense. Bluffing basically, that's what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of bluffs, it's a lot of looks,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of trickery, a lot of deception. And

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Speaker 1: that was like, yeah, once they get it, some of

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Speaker 1: these guys are gonna be given the freedom, like Chandler

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Speaker 1: Jones was, to show different bluffs. Ultimately, though, he needs

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Speaker 1: to be in the spot they want him when they

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Speaker 1: snapped the ball. By the way, folks, we have ten

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Speaker 1: minutes before our college guests, so if you want to

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Speaker 1: get in, we'll take a couple of calls between now

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Speaker 1: and then two O one four five one three. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're not used to having us on in one, so

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Speaker 1: we have a couple of open lines, so feel free

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Speaker 1: to squeeze in at two one, five on three. Just

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Speaker 1: want to add on the Vernon thing, because he was asked,

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Speaker 1: is it an adjustment for Vernon to go from the

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Speaker 1: four three d N to three four outside linebacker? Um,

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Speaker 1: he said no and basically intimated that, look, we're not stupid.

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Speaker 1: We're not gonna ask Olivia. Vernon will cover people. We

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Speaker 1: wanted to do what he does best. What you said

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Speaker 1: that what I said, You didn't identify which code that's

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Speaker 1: you said that we're not stupid. He didn't say we're not,

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Speaker 1: but that, but that's what he intimated. He hinted that

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Speaker 1: O vivi A. Vernon is gonna be rushing the past. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's what they wanted to do. That's what he's best at.

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Speaker 1: And even though he's gonna be a three or four

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Speaker 1: outside linebacker. And I could tell all the defensive coaches

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Speaker 1: do not like this. Oh, we play at three four,

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Speaker 1: it's not a four three. They all humor the people

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Speaker 1: that asked the questions, and I asked the question too,

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Speaker 1: so I was humored. But they don't like to be

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Speaker 1: pigeonholed into that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no no.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be a As I've said it before,

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Speaker 1: it's a fluid defense. It's not in a maib defense

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Speaker 1: that that Rex Ryan used to run, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's a fluid defense, and it's quite clear. And I

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Speaker 1: go back to the comment Betcher made, and I think

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Speaker 1: I said it earlier in the show. Betcher said, we

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Speaker 1: may line up differently on every single snap, and that's

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Speaker 1: just the way it's going to be. And all the

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Speaker 1: different concepts that are in the three four and the

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Speaker 1: four three are going to rear their heads during the

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Speaker 1: Giants games. That's it. And Paul, here's the thing. And

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Speaker 1: this is the last thing I'll say, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: get to your calls before we get Bill Rabinowitz from

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Speaker 1: the Columbus Dispatch, whose covers Ohio State. Um Betcher said,

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Speaker 1: even as a coaching staff, we are not gonna know

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Speaker 1: what our defense is, identity is until the end of

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Speaker 1: training camp because, as he said, we're playing basketball on

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Speaker 1: turf in the spring. He can't hit anybody. So basically,

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Speaker 1: he's gonna see during camp, once you get the pads

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Speaker 1: on what his guys are good at, and he is

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Speaker 1: then going to call his defense and put his defense

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Speaker 1: together based around that. So, guys, this is gonna be fluid.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have fun watching this defense and see what

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Speaker 1: they're good at and see what they decide to stick

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Speaker 1: with once they get to the regular season. But it's

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Speaker 1: gonna take some time. He's going to destroy my tape work. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be pointless. He will destroy me. He will

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Speaker 1: destroy me. One of the things I do, folks, usually

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Speaker 1: when I when I go back and I review a

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Speaker 1: Giant game on Monday or Tuesday every week, is I

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Speaker 1: go back and I look at specifically what the defense

428
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: did on each and every play, What was the front

429
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: who blitzed, how many times they blitzed, how many guys

430
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: they sent You know what, I know. No, it's not

431
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 1: happening this year. You've been happening. You bet have your

432
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 1: rewind ready on that happening. I'm not gonna have enough

433
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: hours in the day to keep track of all the

434
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: different kinds of things, because you know, then I put

435
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: together a chart, well, guess what, there will be no

436
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: chart because the chart will be as big as a

437
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: piece of wallpaper perty columns. You can't do it. Can't

438
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: do it. And by the way, it was the same

439
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 1: thing watching the Cardinals last year. It was when I

440
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: watched the Cardinals last year going into the Giants game,

441
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this and I'm like, Okay, they're all

442
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 1: over the places. This one defense down defensive lineman or

443
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: two down defensive lineman. Here's the thing, folks, Um the

444
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 1: Giant clearly have decided with the makeup of of this

445
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: coaching staff by going to betcher Um and and the

446
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: rest of the defensive guys, they have basically decided that

447
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 1: they're going to become a very athletic team, and they're

448
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: going to become a very unpredictable team. They're not gonna

449
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,959
Speaker 1: be And look, I love Steve Spagnola. You guys know

450
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 1: that I'm a huge fan of SPACs and Spags was

451
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: great at improvising on the fly and even during the

452
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: middle of games, especially in the middle of a series

453
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: or in the middle of a quarter. He'd be drawing

454
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: stuff there on the right in front of the bench.

455
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: But guy, what do you want to do? Guys, let's

456
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 1: try this, and he'd become making stuff up. He was great,

457
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: great improvision improvisation. But but it always came out of

458
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: a certain look or certain scheme or certain systems. That

459
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: was was the foundation was there, There was, there was

460
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: building blocks of this is where it's coming from. There's

461
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: no spine to this defense. There's none. There's no spine, John,

462
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: Everybody is fluid, everybody's all over the place. There's no

463
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: there's no um what's the word of Lincoln locks connecting

464
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: the dots for this defense. So that's it's obvious that's

465
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: where they're going. There's no main frame. No there there

466
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: isn't there isn't. You know when you know when you're

467
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: building the house that you have the beams going up,

468
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: you don't have that's the steel beams. There are no

469
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: steel beams in this defense. All right, lett it call

470
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: me in Maryland, Len, you know, be our only call

471
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 1: before we get to our what's going on? Found the

472
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: show and I'm glad um listen. It was interesting listening

473
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: to the you know, coordinator or reading some of the

474
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: things that he had to say, um those videos, and

475
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: he kept it, kept it pretty simple, you know, uh,

476
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: not too much emphasis on scheme. Like you know, I

477
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: kind of like that, you know three four or four

478
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: three will Sam's uh nicole, you know all that kind

479
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: of stuff. Um more um towards what you guys when

480
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: we were all younger learned in the schoolyard. And he

481
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: used the word relentless, find the guy who's got the ball,

482
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: jump on top of him and throw him on the ground.

483
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's pretty it's it's it's schoolyard football.

484
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: But you know what, at its at its core, it's

485
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: really what it's all about. And he said that too,

486
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 1: he said, this is really what it's all about. It's

487
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: not scheme, it's being relent and that's finding the ball,

488
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 1: jumping on top of the guy and throw him on

489
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: the ground. And uh, I like that. That was refreshing.

490
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: And you know here, yeah, I'm gonna throw out a

491
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: kudu here to coach coach McAdoo um. One of his

492
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: phrases that always resonated with me. And it's along the

493
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: same lines, guys, I'm not going in a different direction here.

494
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: He always talked about getting the guy on the ground.

495
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: Do you do you do you remember that you remember

496
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: him saying that. I like that because you know, at

497
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: the core that's really what it's all about. The guy

498
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: who's got the ball to get him on the ground,

499
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: on the defensive persuasive. So hey, he um, this guy

500
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: resonated with me, you know, first first listen or first read,

501
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: and um, hey, I think it's gonna be fun. I

502
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be fun. Um, let me let me

503
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: go to the draft for a second if I may.

504
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: And then unless you get to your guests. By the way,

505
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: the guests have been great, and and and John the

506
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: show last Friday. I guess you did it on Thursday,

507
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: played it on Friday. That that was a treat, So

508
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that. Yeah, um, you know, on the draft,

509
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: it seems to me we're talking about two players in

510
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: terms of generational players. The two players where that comes

511
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 1: up the most seems to me to be Barkley and Nelson.

512
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: And then real quick, I think people over use the

513
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: term generational player Florence player. These guys they're they're both

514
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: all let's call this, they're all pro caliber players, which

515
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: I think is a very generous description. But to call

516
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: it generational means that no one can come close to

517
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: comparing these guys the last, which is nonsense. And and

518
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: and the league is still looking for the next lt

519
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: by the way, exactly and by the way exactly true.

520
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: But let me let me let me kind of use

521
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: that reference, if I may try to try to make

522
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: a point. It seems like the two players are Barkley

523
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: and Nelson, and those of the guys will come up

524
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: who that term has been a play um, And I

525
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: understand it may not work out and things like that,

526
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: but I guess my bottom line is, why don't we

527
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: just pick one you can and one of them? One

528
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: of them is going to be there you can. That's

529
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: definitely an option, you know, I mean, um again, both

530
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: of them are three down players, and Paul, you know,

531
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: I like that they're they're plug in guys lead. But

532
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: what if they've got they've got a bright future in

533
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: front of them where people are talking about him in

534
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: different terms than we're talking about otherwise, my photos, just

535
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: let's just pick one of those guys. But what if

536
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: you can trade down three spots, get two extra picks

537
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: and then pick one of them? Anyway, wouldn't that even better? Well, well,

538
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: well maybe I am getting the generational players and slides.

539
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: Don't you know when you got that number two pick,

540
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: this is this is a classic pick. And let me

541
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: ask you this as a as the kind of a

542
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: follow on. But last question I promised, it's this upcoming draft.

543
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: It seems to me this upcoming draft is as important

544
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: a draft for the Giants as I can ever remember.

545
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: I think it's the it's the most important drafts I've

546
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: been working here since two thousand and six. Yeah, and

547
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: I pauled, you, do you think it goes it goes

548
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: well beyond that, I think it does. I think I

549
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: think the Ey draft would be the would be the

550
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: comparison four. Two thousand seven was also incredibly important because,

551
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: quite frankly, going into that season, there were people who

552
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: aren't sure that Eli was going to ascend to the

553
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: level that he did. Yeah, but there were questions about him.

554
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: That whole team and every one of the everyone, every

555
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: one of those draft picks wound up contributing to that

556
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Check. Yeah, but I don't think the draft

557
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: unmusch you do with Eli. I mean no, but in

558
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: terms of the team, that's true. You know the Giants

559
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: were the crossroads there. There were people who were doubting

560
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: maybe how good Tom Coughlin was gonna be. I agree

561
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: with that, and doubting how good Eli Manning was. The

562
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: funny was this team on the right track? The long

563
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: term impact of the O seven draft class, wasn't that pick?

564
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: A lot of those guys helped that first year. It

565
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: flamed out for various reasons, whether it's the Smith injury,

566
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: Kevin Moss injury, j Alfred injury. It's true, you know,

567
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: brad Shaw was a big deal, and you know brad

568
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: Shaw got the two rings. I know, I know, I know.

569
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: But without that, without that class doing what it did

570
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: in two thousand seven and getting in that ring, I'm

571
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: not so sure that the Giants would have had the

572
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: patience with that group of guys. I think that's fair,

573
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: and that patience, even with the veterans more so than

574
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: with the rookie class, did allow them to win another

575
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: one in eleven. All right, let's get bull in the

576
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: line with the naytime. Jay and Philly will be our

577
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: second call. What's up, Jay? Hey? How ya doing? Man?

578
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: What's up? Hello? Yes? Can you hear me? Yeah? Yeah, Man?

579
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Kwan Barkley? Man, you think

580
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: we can pull that off? Y call the Browns and

581
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: make sure they don't take them. How about I think

582
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: the Giants will successively be able to fill out their

583
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: card with Tae Kwon Barkley's name if if they decide

584
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: that's who they want to pick it too. Is he? Uh?

585
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: Is he in um New York right now? Not? As

586
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: far as I understand, I don't. I don't know. I

587
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: don't know where we're He does have he does have

588
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: some workouts planned with with teams, private sessions if you will.

589
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: I don't know where he's going, what day he's going,

590
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: but look, any team of the top ten is going

591
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: to have him in for a visit and getting that

592
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: Craig Johnson, the runnings back coaches in here, guessing the

593
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: running back prize in here working out the day, the

594
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 1: running back coaches in the building. Heyn with who the line,

595
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: the lot, the defense to end? We got tomorrow? Yes?

596
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: Can you hear me? Yeah? Jamie got you in and

597
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: thanks for the call. Um. Yeah, Look he's here. He

598
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: got a four game suspension and he'll be back. He

599
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: will participate in camp and in the preseason because the

600
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: suspension doesn't take place until the actual game, and now

601
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: is a performance enhancing deal based on his statement he

602
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: said on someone over the counter product, which happens sometimes. Um,

603
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate the team was aware of it when they

604
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: signed them. Not the first player and not the last

605
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: will not exactly. So that's the deal, all right. Now

606
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: we're joe him by our guest. He's Bill re Benwitz.

607
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: He's from the Clumbus Dispatch. He's been our go to

608
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: Ohio State football reporter. UH covers the team does a

609
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: great job. Author of a couple of books as well. Bill,

610
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: you got johnsh Malcolm Paul to Tino here in NEAs Weatherford,

611
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Thanks for the time today. Now you've got

612
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: spring football going on. We appreciate the time happen to

613
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: be with. We're doing great and as usual, Bill, you

614
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: guys have a slew of people from Ohio State heading

615
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: into the NFL draft. Uh. You guys are basically a

616
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: prep school for the NFL at this point. So let's

617
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: start on the offensive side of the ball, only because

618
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: there aren't quite as many guys on offense that are

619
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: making the jump this year. And then we'll hit your

620
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: basically half your starting defense. Yeah, that's probably gonna get

621
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: drafted in a few weeks. Let's start Billy Price. Um,

622
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: have you heard anything about his rehab from that torn peck,

623
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, heading into the Combine. To me, he was,

624
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, a late first early second round type of pick.

625
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: I gotta imagine he's probably still gonna go somewhere around there.

626
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: Have you heard anything just from around town from guys

627
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: that know Billie, how that rehab with him is going. Yeah,

628
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: he had a high favored their pro day and it

629
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: was March twenty second. He was there. He had a

630
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: swing on his arm, on the shoulder, he had a

631
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: partisanally touring peck. He said that he'll be ready by

632
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: the start of training camp. I think he said June

633
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,239
Speaker 1: was kind of the target day. So he doesn't even

634
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: think it all afect him. Um, the irony of of

635
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: him and getting hurt lifting at the Combine. And first

636
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: of all, he set up the record for most stars

637
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: in a highest career fifty if forget the number fifty

638
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: two or something. Uh, and never missed the game obviously.

639
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: And the other thing was he was gonna put on

640
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: a show at the Combine with the with the bench press,

641
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: because he would have been at least mid thirties, and

642
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: here it is the third rap, something he's done a

643
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: million times, and he te pick it was like, you

644
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: gotta be kidding, So but yeah, I would. I would

645
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: say that he would be at worst early to mid

646
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: second round pick, even with the injury. Straight starts by

647
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: the way, would it was in Ohio? Yeah, you know, plee,

648
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: I have not gotten to the offensive lineman in my

649
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: film work yet. So I'm going to ask you to

650
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: give me an indication as to what he does very

651
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: well that will make him a plug and play starter

652
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: in the NFL, because if you're gonna draft him as

653
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: high as the second round, then he's got a chance

654
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: to be a starter right away. Yeah. Well, first of allways, Versa,

655
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: he played guard for the first three years of his

656
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: career before switching the center. He's extremely intelligent, he graduated

657
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: from a graduate honors um. Just a really bright guy,

658
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: very passionate. Uh, incredibly strong. You know alluded to that

659
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: with the bench press. He's just a really you know,

660
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: physically strong person. It was interesting is on the Ohio

661
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: state championship teams two thousands fourteen, he was the young guy.

662
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: He was the guy that there was like the little

663
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: brother that everyone picked on, and it was hard for him.

664
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: I mean, there were certain linemates on that team that

665
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 1: that we're not you know, it wasn't general love, it

666
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: was tough love. And then he I think took that

667
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: to heart and has really been a mentor to a

668
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: lot of the Ohio State players that came after him.

669
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: So you'll you will find anybody here that will have

670
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: anything but very nice things to say the price. Yeah,

671
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: and he's a guy that played left guard, he played

672
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: right guard, that he moved to center, and that seems

673
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: to kind of be the Ohio State away, right. They'll

674
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: start to you guys at a guard, then they'll see you,

675
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: They'll they'll they'll kind of put him at center, and

676
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: he's a leader of that line. Where do you think

677
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: he's best What do you think his best spot is

678
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: at the next level in the NFL. Yeah, that's a

679
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: good question. I mean, you know, I haven't covered the

680
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: NFL as a full time beaten more than ten years,

681
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure how the league is involved. I

682
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: think he would be fined either way. He's more experienced

683
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: at guard. I know there's there's been some speculation than

684
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: that Minnesota might take him. And obviously Minnesota has pet

685
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: alf Line and he's the one who started the trend

686
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: of guard the center. And if that's the case, he said,

687
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: Price said, he'll all be happy to play guard. Um,

688
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: I think center is probably a more you know of glamorous,

689
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: is that the right word? You know, that's probably where

690
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: he'd prefer to play. But I don't think it matters

691
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: to him very much. All You've got another lineman they

692
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: named Jamaco Jones, who a lot of people seem to

693
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: think he could be as high as a third round pick,

694
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 1: which would make him a late second day selection. How

695
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: close do you think he is to being a legitimate

696
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: NFL prospect, because obviously if you're going to draft him

697
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: there again, you're going to think he's going to compete

698
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: for a job. Yeah, I think he will. He did

699
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: not have did not post great numbers at the combine.

700
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: I mean, but that's not the kind of player he is.

701
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: He's a very steady guy, doesn't draw a lot of

702
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: attention to himself, a smart guy. Played played very well.

703
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: In fact, when he was probably ready to start earlier

704
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: than he got a chance to start. He started for

705
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: two years and his early in his career, players would

706
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: tell us, uh, if somebody gets hurt, to Marco's the

707
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: guy and he'll be fine. But nobody did. It was amazing,

708
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: incredibly durable as they saw offensive lineman of men. Last

709
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: year they lost a player of Brandon Bowen. It was

710
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: the first significant injury they've had to any offensive lineman

711
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: under Ruban Meyer, which just kind of defies the laws

712
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: of a football I mean, it's just amazing. It's to

713
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: think that guys would be as durable playing that position.

714
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: Um So, Jamarco Jones just a very solid guy. Not flashy.

715
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: You know, he's a left tackle. You don't want him

716
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: to be slashy. I mean he's not gonna, I'm not

717
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: gonna like jump off the tape at you. But his

718
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: guy's very seldom get to the quarterback, which is what

719
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: you want at the very least. Do you see him

720
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: as being a potential swing tackle? Does he have enough

721
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: power in addition to the technique that he could play

722
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: some right tackle if he was asked to. He could,

723
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: But I think he is much more of a left tackle.

724
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to call him a finesse player.

725
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: That's not really fair to him, but he's he's not

726
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: one of these kind of road greater Mall earners that

727
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: you think about for right tackle. Um. You know, he

728
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: could certainly do it in the pinch that there wouldn't

729
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: be a problem, but I think his long term home

730
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: is that left tackle. Yeah. It's funny you know to

731
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: be watching him on TAPO and had a chance to

732
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: watch him a little bit, yes in the afternoon and

733
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: this morning. He's just so steady. You know, he's out

734
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: there and they don't have to help him a lot.

735
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: You rarely see him get beat around the edge. Maybe

736
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: some guys will push him a little bit with the bullrush,

737
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: but no one beats him, you know, around the edge

738
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: with this size. How much do you think, if at all,

739
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: the Ohio state offensive scheme maybe helped him or was

740
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: he asked to protect on five seven step drops where

741
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: he had to go one on one with the speed

742
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: rusher and really hold his own on that side? Yeah

743
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: they did. I mean, this is not a free step

744
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: drop team all the time, and J. C. Barrett certainly

745
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: did some of that, and um, but those are there

746
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: are also times when J. C. Barrett would would stay

747
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: in the pocket and wait for things to to you know,

748
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: wait for thinking to develop, and he had to hold

749
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: his block longer than than a typical left tackle. Um,

750
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: I think the word that you said that that is

751
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: perfect for Jamaco's steady. You know, he just he's not

752
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: gonna just be a guy who dazzled here, but he

753
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: just he doesn't get beat very often. And and he's

754
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: a really steady person. Just his personality. He doesn't get

755
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: too high, doesn't get too low here, very very pleas

756
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: than die. Uh just not real excitable. Which again, if

757
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: if you're not looking for dramas, which I don't think

758
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: most people are all that go on and I got

759
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: to imagine, you know, you don't have many you know,

760
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: senior starters in Ohio State, especially on defense, guys tend

761
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: to leave early. What does it say about these two

762
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: guys that both of them are coming out after their

763
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: senior years in terms of the amount of experience they've

764
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: been able to earn it Ohio State for both guys,

765
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: their intelligence and and really just what they've been all

766
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: to pick up from being a part of the program

767
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: for as long as they have. Yeah, I mean, first

768
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: of all, those guys went against studs of practice for

769
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: their entire career. You know, both posts as they lined

770
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: up against both posts, uh Pai Kwon Lewis Jaalen Holmes.

771
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 1: I mean they've they've been put to their ringer at practice,

772
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: we had alone games. So I think they're given their

773
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: experience at Olive State, they're gonna be as prepared as

774
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: you can possibly be, uh, coming from a college program.

775
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: John and I have talked since we were at the

776
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: combine for three days about how this is a very

777
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: healthy cornerback group in the draft. There are just so

778
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: many legit pro prospects, but a lot of them seem

779
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: to be better suited to slot coverage in the National

780
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: Football League. Denzel Ward ran in the four threes. Okay,

781
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: I mean you're talking about lightning quick. But again, he's

782
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: one of those sub six footers who a lot of

783
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: people might think, you know, is gonna be somewhat suited

784
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: to the slot at least to start his NFL career

785
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: and then maybe move outside later on. What are some

786
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: of your thoughts on him, because everyone seems to believe

787
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: he's one of the top two or three corners in

788
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: this draft and a certain first round pick. Yeah. I

789
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: think it's he's certainly a top half of the first

790
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: round pick, maybe even top I've seen his high I

791
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 1: think seven. I think I saw one mock draft. He's

792
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 1: not the biggest guy, as you said, he's not small,

793
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,439
Speaker 1: he's you know, a little lean, which again rather I'd

794
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: rather have a lean cornerback than a thick one. Um.

795
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: But the thing that that really struck me watching Denzel

796
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: Ward and it seemed to me like I never asked

797
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: getting carry combs, like halfway through the year, is he

798
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: playing as well? If I think he's playing? Because you know,

799
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: hid the State's had all these guys that have come

800
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: out first round pick Sparks On Latimore, Garry and Connolly,

801
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: Bradley Rode. We just had to stand them. And honestly,

802
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: I thought that Denzel Award played as well or better

803
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: than any of those guys as college players. He just,

804
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, the word that they used this traps mirrored,

805
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: I mean, he mirrored these guys. They would go in addrestion.

806
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: He was right there with them, and he's just kept

807
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: throwing at him And I thought, why why don't I

808
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 1: keep doing this? That doesn't work? Throw us the other guys,

809
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: I mean, the other guys are kind of you know,

810
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: they're good, but they're you can you can complete passes

811
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: on him. Denzel Award. I don't remember the staff that

812
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: one of the one of those websites that does this stuff.

813
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: It was just a remarkable number of the opposing quarterback

814
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: passer rating against when they threw at Denzel Award. Um

815
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: great hands in terms of you know, being able to

816
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: deflect pass his great positioning. He was almost never in

817
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: the wrong spot. Obviously, he's very fast, very quick, uh,

818
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: and good instincts too. Because there are a lot of

819
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: guys and there are some guys on the Colonel Heyst

820
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: roster have all the skills, have all the speed. They

821
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: don't turn to meet the ball, they don't all these things.

822
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: You go, well, you know they were in position to

823
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: make the play, but they didn't make the play. Denza

824
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: Award was in position and he made the play. And

825
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: he's got the speed at the rare times when when

826
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: he's out of position to to make up round. So

827
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: I think he's about a sure pick as there is

828
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: in the draft, at least among the guys that I'm

829
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: familiar with. Yeah, I'm watching him. It seemed like that

830
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: that he's pretty scheme versatile. I saw him play some

831
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: Cover three stuff where he would come out of his

832
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: own and and kind of make a play a tight

833
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: end going down the seam. Um. I saw him play

834
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: off man and then ironically in his press man because

835
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: I guess it's because of his size, he doesn't really

836
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: rough up the guy the line of scrimmage, but like

837
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: you said, he gets so close to him, yet at

838
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: the same time he doesn't allow any separation. I think

839
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: it's a real unique skill set. And you see him outside,

840
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: even though he's just five ten, five eleven, he's able

841
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: to go up there against hole a wide receivers and

842
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: knocked the ball the way. I think it's the really

843
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: unique versatile skill set that lets him to do multiple

844
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: scheme things. He played inside, he played outside, he played

845
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: left corner, he played right corner. To me, he's a

846
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 1: guy that if you're a defensive coordina in the NFL,

847
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: you could use him in a lot of different ways

848
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: and he'd be a good player for you. Yeah. I

849
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. And and his you know great as

850
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: rush On a Lotimore Wards last year with New Orleans.

851
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Denzel Ward is certainly in that category.

852
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: And I'm not predicting he's gonna win up to the year.

853
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: You know that there are a lot of factors to

854
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: go into it. But I think you draft him and

855
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: you don't worry about that that position for a while. Well,

856
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, Jerome Baker is another guy I'm a little

857
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: curious about because I've seen things all over the map

858
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: with him. As as you know, some people think he

859
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: could be as high as a third round of some

860
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: people think he's a fifth rounder. I guess it depends

861
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: on your taste and your point of view. What do

862
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 1: you like about his skill set? What could help him,

863
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: what could hurt him in the draft? Well, what will

864
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: help him is just his physical ability, and he's extremely

865
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: fast for a guy at his size. Uh. You know,

866
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: if you're gonna draw a prototype linebacker, you'd come pretty

867
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: close to describing Jerome Baker. The issue with him is

868
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: the production and the consistency did not always match the

869
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: physical skills against Iowa, for example, and I was I

870
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: see Ohio State. You know, I always a four bitter

871
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: war drives date. After what happened last year, Um, Jerome

872
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: Baker was one of the people who was victimized. There's

873
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: no getting around it. Against Oklahoma, he struggled, as did

874
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: all the linebackers. Um at times, he was the kind

875
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: of player that you thought he would be. He did

876
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: a great job against Penn State. Pennce Date tried to

877
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: isolate take Kwon Barkley on Baker, and Baker held his own.

878
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: You know, he that was a game. He thought, Okay,

879
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: that's the Joran Baker I think I'm gonna see all

880
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: the time. You didn't see that all the time, and

881
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: he admitted it. I mean, Jerome Baker is a very

882
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: engaging guy. I mean he's a very honest guy. He said,

883
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't I didn't play great all the time.

884
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 1: And so a team, I think he'll go probably earlier

885
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: rather than later, because a team out of thirty two

886
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: is going to say we can get the best out

887
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: of this guy, and the best out of this guy's

888
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: be really good. Um, so I'd be surprised that he

889
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: goes beyond let's say the third round, uh, you know,

890
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: fourth round. I would say it's the worst case scenario

891
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: because I just think that his physical skills are too

892
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: enticing for for everybody to bypass him. Paul, and it's

893
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: funny and then Paul, you can ask you the next question.

894
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: But I have Dame Brugler's draft guide in front of me,

895
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: and here is his summary. At the end, Bill, he

896
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: is a project at this point in his development, lacking

897
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: take on skills, but his athletic profile will have him overdrafted,

898
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: which is basically exactly what you just said, where the

899
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: physical ability will overcome the lack of productive There are

900
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 1: reasons why a guy can be inconsistent. It can be

901
00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: either his his mental awareness, his instinctiveness. Uh, he doesn't

902
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: have the heart of the physicality. Perhaps he played hurt

903
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: and people weren't aware that he played hurt, and that

904
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: hurt his production. What do you think the primary reason

905
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: is for his lack of consistency? You know, I don't know.

906
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: I mean I I don't think he was hurt. I

907
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: don't think that was an issue. And and the and

908
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: the thing is the thing about football is you can

909
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: play great for sixty plays and you blow two of

910
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: them and it makes it look like a terrible game.

911
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: And and that's kind of what happened. And certainly against Iowa.

912
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: And I'm not painting all of the high estates problems

913
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: on Andron Baker. Certainly there was a team wide thing.

914
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: But when you get beat, it looks bad. And there

915
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: were times, especially a guy with those skills, you you

916
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: expect him to just fly around the field making all

917
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: kinds of players that make it go wow. And at

918
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: times he would do that, but it wasn't as consistent.

919
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 1: So you know why that was. Sometimes you're thinking more

920
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: than reacting. I can't get inside his head. And then again,

921
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: the thing about football is tricky about evaluating is you

922
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what the scheme is on any giving

923
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: Play's not gonna sit there, Coaches aren't gonna sit down

924
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: with you explain well, this guy's got this guy and

925
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: this guy is doing this. You just don't know, you know,

926
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: to my layman's eyes, which hopefully will slightly better than

927
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: the average layman. So that's what I saw. But you know,

928
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: I'm not going to portray myself as like some some

929
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: guys sits in front of film all day, and I mean,

930
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: I've got a newspaper right for I don't. I can't

931
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: do that. But that those are my general impressions about

932
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: about John Baker and I and real quick laste on

933
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: Baker at at six on two thirty. He's more like

934
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: you're running hit in space. Let him run in chase

935
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: type of linebacker are um, Yeah, absolutely, that's what I think.

936
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: All right. Uh now, obviously you have a big portion

937
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: of the Ohio State quote unquote rushman package that are

938
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 1: coming out in this year's draft. Let's go to Sam

939
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: Hubbard first, and to me, he kind of smells like

940
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: a poor man's Joey Bosa. And let me explain in

941
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: that he's pretty good at everything. He's not gonna wire

942
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: you with that, you know, with this crazy athleticism. He

943
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: doesn't bend off the edge, but he stops to run.

944
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: He's a he does a hard work, he's relentless, and

945
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: he'll eventually get the job done for you. I agree,

946
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: But I would also say that he's a better athlete

947
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: than a lot of people get him credit for it.

948
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: And and uh, he's a former lacrosse player. Most people

949
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,919
Speaker 1: know the story former lacrosse player Urban Meyer discovered playing

950
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: dodge ball at as high school. And and so you know,

951
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: he started out at Ohio State is in safety, so

952
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: he's still kind of growing into that body. He's an

953
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: extremely intelligent guy. Graduated with honors from the Fisher School

954
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: of Business, which is a really tough school. So he's

955
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, he's the kind of guy that you want

956
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: your daughter to marry. I mean, you know, he's just

957
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: he's just kind of that kind of guy. And well, yeah,

958
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: well you can marry him. You can your daughter can

959
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: marry him because they'll be wealthy. How's that? There? You go?

960
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: I like it, like it, um, but a nice kid

961
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: to a very very personal a guy. It's very earnest,

962
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: wants to please, wants to do well. Um. But I

963
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: do think there's athleticism does get overlooked. I just I just,

964
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, for whatever reason that it does. But I think, uh,

965
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, is he Joey Bosa, No, but very few

966
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 1: players at Joey Bosa not, you know, not too far behind.

967
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: I need to ask you about Jalen Holmes because that's

968
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: also a guy who has certainly been uh getting a

969
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: lot of attention over the course of his career there

970
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: and again not a guy who's going to be a

971
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 1: first rounder, but another guy who's intriguing and some people

972
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: might find him a little bit more attractive than others.

973
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: I'm not actually doing a draft series with him. I've

974
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: done a couple of ponents already and and so you know,

975
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: I know Jalen pretty well, interesting guy, very very thoughtful,

976
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: very into community service. Uh, kind of loud in a

977
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: good way. You know, he's just out there. He just

978
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, he's not advisive, but he is. He is

979
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: uh and outspoken, not even the right word. He's just

980
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: more you know, he cares about the world around him.

981
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 1: And some people just want football players just care about football,

982
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: but he cares about more than just football. Um As

983
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: a player, he was a guy who was overlooked a

984
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: lot because he didn't pile up crazy staff. I was

985
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: on the conference call with him al Kaiper last week,

986
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: and and I asked him about higher state players or

987
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: he's maybe after asked him for somebody else asked him

988
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: and he and he said that he was disappointed with

989
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: the production of the Higo States defensive liignement. And I

990
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: thought that's funny because they were dominant last year. Now, individually,

991
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: they didn't put a huge numbers because they rotated. I mean,

992
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: it wasn't like Nick Bosa played eighty STAPs. They all

993
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 1: played about forty snaps the game. Well, you're playing forty

994
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: snaps the game and say you're okay, twenty of those

995
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: are runs. How many opportunities. Do you really have to

996
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,479
Speaker 1: get facts? You know? Not much? And so jellen Holmes

997
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: had two sacks last year, well, he had two sacks

998
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: in the senior ball. He played inside in their rushman package.

999
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: He's in the natural defensive and who played tack really

1000
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: nose guard uh in their rushman package. And they put

1001
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: four defensive ends on the fiord at one time, so

1002
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: he can play the run. He can. He's a better

1003
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: pass rusher than people give him credit for. I think

1004
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: he'll be a successful, solid pro. And Tae Kwon Lewis

1005
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: is the same thing. Taekwon Lewis at Pro Day put

1006
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,959
Speaker 1: up some crazy numbers. He was in the four sixes. Yeah,

1007
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: that's that's pretty stunning. And he's a guy people talk

1008
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: about his athleticism or lack thereof, and I'm like, I'm

1009
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: not sure what they're watching if they think that that

1010
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: a guy a defensive end with a thick body in

1011
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: Taekwon Lewis is a thick body. Um can run a

1012
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: four six four six and and you know not be

1013
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: a great athlete. It's kind of stunts me. Yeah, you know,

1014
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 1: here's the thing too, And and even I guess Hubbard

1015
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: to a to a certain extent when when you take

1016
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: a look at these guys, there aren't these like small

1017
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: lies to stand up, you know, bend the edge guys.

1018
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: I mean Hubbard's to seventy, Jalen Holmes is six five

1019
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: to eight at defensive end. Those guys just don't exist anymore.

1020
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: And so I called Lewis is six to seventy. So

1021
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 1: I feel like the way Ohio State runs their program,

1022
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 1: they don't want these guys that are just gonna pin

1023
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: their ears back and get after the quarterback. They want

1024
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: guys that can stop the run too. And it seems

1025
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: like that's what you're getting. You're not just getting guys

1026
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: gonna rush the quarterback, rush to the quarterback, rushed the quarterback.

1027
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: These are guys that understand both parts of their responsibility.

1028
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: On the defensive one, you know, the beauty of it.

1029
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: Much like me, Ohio State is allergic to Tweeners, and

1030
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 1: I really like big Boy, and I like that because

1031
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: I don't big tweeners very much. I think that maybe

1032
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: one of the worst things that happened to two defensive

1033
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: ends or defensive lineman is the facts that I think

1034
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: the facts that can be so overrated because it's so

1035
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: it's how many times do you actually see a guy

1036
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: just beat a guy and get a fact. Usually a

1037
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: sack is because this guy flushes this guy that flushes

1038
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: the quarterback into somebody else, or to coverage stack or

1039
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: situational thing where everyone knows he's gonna be rushing to

1040
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: pass her and and four guys converge and one guy

1041
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: gets there first. I mean a legitimate pass, uh, you know,

1042
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 1: pass rusher who can get backs like Laurence Taylor could. Yeah,

1043
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: those guys are worth their wing and old. There are

1044
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: very very few of those guys. So much of the time,

1045
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: the guys who get credit with the stacks may not

1046
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: be the guy who's actually responsible for getting the stack

1047
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: on the first place. He just kind of cleans up

1048
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: the garbage sometimes. And so you know, I feel for

1049
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: these guys who bust their butts every play. Are very

1050
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: good against the run, which Ohio State guys were in

1051
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: terms of maintaining leverage and and all that stuff. Family however,

1052
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: was great at that last year, for example, and yet

1053
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: all people talk about, well, you know, Jalen Holmes only

1054
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: had two sacks. Well, there's a lot more that goes

1055
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: into it than than you know, Jalen Holmes truly being

1056
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: responsible for two sacks real quick just because of their size.

1057
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 1: How versatile all these defense of lineman are they gonna

1058
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: move in and out? Where Hubbard and Lewis pretty much ends?

1059
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned Holmes did move inside at the

1060
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: Pastor's package. How about Lewis and Hubbard? Can those guys

1061
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: play either side of the line? Are they more right

1062
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: left specific? And did they even move it into play

1063
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: any three technique? Yeah? I think they're both defensive ends.

1064
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: I think in a pinch they could move inside probably

1065
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: more uh Taekwon Lewis and Hubbard. I think Hubbard's pretty

1066
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: much if anything, Hubbard could be used as a a

1067
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 1: three ford outside linebacker. UM kind of a stand up guy,

1068
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: and I mean I can see him doing that. He's

1069
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: got the athletics as the universitility to do something like that.

1070
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: The other guys are more pure defensive ends or you

1071
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: know again Lewis at Holmes, you know, in a pension

1072
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: to get play inside. Final one from me and and

1073
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,959
Speaker 1: you know Bill, we talked about this every single time

1074
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: we get close to the draft. We talk about how

1075
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: because the CBA in the NFL is so limiting, to

1076
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: these rookies that it's really hard for a number of

1077
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: them to contribute right away. But because of the programs

1078
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: they come out of, some of them all much more

1079
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: pro ready. And to me, that's just the way it

1080
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: is in buck Eyeville. It just seems as though they

1081
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: get their guys a step ahead of so many other programs.

1082
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: Alabama does the same thing, you know, the power programs

1083
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about. What is it about? What is it

1084
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 1: about what they do at Ohio State that just doesn't

1085
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 1: make them a great college program, but also a program

1086
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: that gets ready, gets guys ready for the NFL. I

1087
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: just thought about this as you're asking a question. I

1088
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: haven't gone through the entire list, but I think almost

1089
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: every one of their coaches, with one major exception, has

1090
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: NFL experience. In the NFL coach he doesn't have it

1091
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: is Urban Meyer. Yeah, Jana was an NFL head coach.

1092
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: Bill Davis was a defensive coordinator. Um, you know, I

1093
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: mean you go down from Larry Johnson was Vctoria. Johnson

1094
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: has put so many guys into the NFL and nobody

1095
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: questions his creditrial they have. They have great coaches And

1096
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Recruit the very best and they develop them.

1097
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: So when you get great athletes and they develop, you

1098
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: get NFL players, and it's the Highest State is a

1099
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: football factory. I mean Ohio State and Alabama and you

1100
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: can put Clemson in that in that group. Now, yeah, Georgia,

1101
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,439
Speaker 1: I mean george is always that great players. They haven't

1102
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: you know, until last year. They never really did it

1103
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: as a team. But you know, there was never a

1104
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 1: question about the Georgia as talent nottin Oklahoma certain years,

1105
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: the USC certain years. But Ohio State and Alabama and

1106
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: Clemson I think right now are the three best programs

1107
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: in the country. And you know, Alabama's number one because

1108
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: they wanted, But I don't think the others are far behind.

1109
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: And uh and Georgia's you know, given what they did

1110
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: last year, I think they're right up there too now.

1111
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: But um, they they pushed these guys. Highest State is

1112
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,479
Speaker 1: a difficult program to play in because you get there,

1113
00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: you come into the four or five star guy and

1114
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: you start off at the part and you look up

1115
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 1: at the depth chart and you go, oh my god,

1116
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: I've got Nick Bosem, and you go, I better bust line.

1117
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: But to have any chance of seeing the field, and

1118
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: they make you play the way you're in your spot

1119
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: on downs is to excel on special teams, you have

1120
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: to find your way earn your way onto a special

1121
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: teams unit. And obviously that's the first steps of the

1122
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: gateway to playing in the NFL as well. So they

1123
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: have a background. So an NFL team who looks at

1124
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: the guy from Ohio State and wanted, okay, is he

1125
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: from kind of prima donic and he plays special teams? Well, yeah,

1126
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: because they had to. That's the way you get on

1127
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 1: the field. I mean certain conditions more than other's a

1128
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 1: defensive end, you know, as you're gonna be on the

1129
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: kickoff coverage team, but but you know, linebackers, wide receivers,

1130
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: running backs, that that kind of stuff. And Zekiel Elliott

1131
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: played special teams his freshman year and that's how he

1132
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: got kind of knowe. Yeah. Dan Salamone, who's our local

1133
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: who's are one of the writers for our website, he's

1134
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: an Ohiose State alumni. He sent me a couple of

1135
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 1: weeks ago, Ezekiel Elliott's big tackle on a kickoff, which

1136
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: is like he's kind of exactly which was kind of

1137
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: his like, and I'm like they actually had a Zekieli

1138
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: to play cops. And then you guys basically had the

1139
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: best defensive back every year, but all he started for

1140
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: one year because they had the best defensive back for

1141
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: the prior draft class starting ahead of the year before.

1142
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: And it's just funny to see. And we thought Dan

1143
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: was just full of proper game exactly the pre new play.

1144
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: I think I've been one of my books. I think

1145
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: it's I think they playing. It's just like, okay, who

1146
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: is this guy Ryan Shades here? I remember Ryan SHARE's

1147
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: ear to make these hits on special teams, you know,

1148
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: the spring game, the spring game. Now you know technique,

1149
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: tacting technique to hit some work as unfortunately, um but

1150
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: he was like shout out of a cannon. You know

1151
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: who was that? But it was on special teams if

1152
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: they first made their names. Built two real quickies for me.

1153
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to shore change the other four guys

1154
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: that are eligible. Can you just give me a very

1155
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: quick index card on Chris Worley, Damon Webb, Marcus Ball,

1156
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: and J. T. Barrett, Just real quick, sure, sure, I

1157
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: think Damian Webb is gonna surprise people. He really improved

1158
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: last year. He proved his range. Uh, you know, under

1159
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: the radar for most of his career. But I think

1160
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: he's a guy late round pick that could be a steal. Uh.

1161
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: Marcus Ball, the guy who looks the part. He made

1162
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: some huge plays. He's got to be much more consistent

1163
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: his hands. You can make the hard catch and drop

1164
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: the easy one. So he's a bit of an enigma,

1165
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: but has the talent can certainly stick. Um. Uh, let

1166
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: me think who are the other ones? Chris Well really,

1167
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a fan of Chris Worley as a person.

1168
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: He's overcome a lot. Um doesn't wow you with physical

1169
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: skillsong special teams. I think he'd be a good guy.

1170
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: He's a good guy in the locker room. I think,

1171
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, I think he can play. Not the fastest guy,

1172
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: but pretty good instincts. Better as a as an outside

1173
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: linebacker last year than as a middle linebacker. Kind of

1174
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: took one for the team playing in the middle, and

1175
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: it was better on the outside. You know, j T.

1176
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure what else gonna be said

1177
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: about j T. He's it was a great college quarterback.

1178
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: He's got to prove that he can make the NFL

1179
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: throws and being the out patterns and those kind of

1180
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: things and be able to to go through his reads

1181
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: quickly and accurately and throw accurately. You know, he has

1182
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: all the intangibles. He'd be he's a great guy to

1183
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: have on your team. He will, he will never embarrass you,

1184
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: he will work hard, he will all those things. He

1185
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: just has to be able to prove that he has

1186
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: the NFL skills and does he You know, I don't

1187
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: presume to judge that. I'll let people who actually study

1188
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: and really know the NFL game better than I do

1189
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: right now to judge that. I think he's got a

1190
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: lot to prove. I think that JT is a guy

1191
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: who's always thrived on on being the underdog and and

1192
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: being the leader, and if he gets a chance, he

1193
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: might surprise people. The question is it's not really a

1194
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: developmental league anymore. It's it's you know, you don't you

1195
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: don't have some sutter backs on the roster now, right,

1196
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: So he's a guy who probably have to bounce around

1197
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: a little bit, but he could find a home and

1198
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: surprise people. Final question, Um, I want to ask you

1199
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: about Eli Apple. You covered in in Ohio state, so

1200
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: you maybe have a unique perspective on him. Obviously his

1201
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: issues last year were well documented. Um did a lot

1202
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: of that stuff surprise you based on what you knew

1203
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: about Eli from you know, come out of college as

1204
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: any of this stuff kind of tripled trickled back, uh

1205
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: to Ohio State and anything you've kind of heard about him,

1206
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. I mean I know both Eli and his

1207
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: and his mom, and he quite well and probably any

1208
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: better than anyone I honestly, Um, and that whole story

1209
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: was his bizarre. I I don't I'm not investigated at myself.

1210
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: I don't have any inside information. Uh. Eli was well

1211
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: thought of that Ohio State. He was a very young player.

1212
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: He came into a high state I think he was

1213
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: seventeen year old. And and Carrie Columbs I remember he

1214
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: was kind of a whipping boy for Carrie Comes. He

1215
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: could do nothing right, and carry was always yelling at

1216
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: him and practice and stuffing a few practices we could see.

1217
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: But then he developed and and he had this this

1218
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: iron deficiency that was under tech it for way too long.

1219
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: And they finally got that straightened out. And you know,

1220
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 1: did I think he was a little bit overdrafted? It

1221
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: will be ten that is that? How really win. I

1222
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: forget what the number was. I think, okay, okay, but

1223
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: I thought that was a little high, and I thought

1224
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 1: he was a first round talent. Um. I don't know

1225
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: what happened last year. I read on Twitter and read

1226
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: things you know, and it bappled me, honest for you,

1227
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 1: but no, there was no like red flags that I'm

1228
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: aware of about you Apple, coming out of a litive

1229
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 1: State built great stuff. We appreciate the time of your

1230
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: go to a house State guy. You always do a

1231
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: fantastic job. We appreciate it. Anything you want to promote

1232
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: for us, um before we take goodbye. I don't have

1233
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: another book coming out, but the Chase and Buckeye Rebirth

1234
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: are still available. If anyone wants to know what really

1235
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: happened to State. I think I think Dan Solomon are

1236
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: our giants. Dot com writer has about ten copies. Man,

1237
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: Thank you Bill, thank you Bell alright, appreciate it was

1238
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: us a great job for the club. End of outstanding stuff, John,

1239
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: you know. And and again you're talking about a program

1240
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: that is a perennial powerhouse, and they don't just want

1241
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: to win and get into the BCS playoffs. They do,

1242
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: they do. But the other thing they do, which not

1243
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: every terrific winning college program does, is literally get guys ready.

1244
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: They are a minor league team, especially especially defense. They

1245
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: are they specially defensively, and that's just a fact. Great job, everybody,

1246
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: thanks so much. Tomorrow we had a couple of guests.

1247
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: We have Matt Miller Um and we have Eric Hanson

1248
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: talking about Notre Dame prospects. It will be a fun show.

1249
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: Two offensive linemen to talk about. Matt Miller nowon, then

1250
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,439
Speaker 1: Eric Hanson equality, and we'll try to squeeze and calls

1251
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 1: in between. It might be tough, but it should be

1252
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: good information. Nonetheless, for Balttino, I'm John Schamall. Thanks for Johnny.

1253
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: Us will see tomorrow on Giants dot Com show Return

1254
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: to Dude. We'll see you that