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Speaker 1: We have. We have a pretty disturbing classic episode tonight.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about this off air. Do you guys

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Speaker 1: remember the Order of the Nine Angles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of burned its way right into my memory.

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Speaker 2: We were just talking off Mike about it. It's involves

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Speaker 2: individuals claiming to be part of this satanic organization or

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Speaker 2: actually part of it.

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Speaker 3: But that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: The lines are very, very blurry, and it involves everything

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Speaker 2: from coerce to suicide to purported creation of like almost

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Speaker 2: what you might call snuff material.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, gets back to a lot of older movements. But

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Speaker 3: then I remember then there a guy named Miyatt or something.

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Speaker 1: Like that in this Yes, yeah, yeah, not Matt, but

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Speaker 1: yeah Mayatt. Mayatt just some evil stuff, right, similar to

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Speaker 1: later things we see in the Republic of Korea, right,

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Speaker 1: and online crime course innocent people into self harm. We

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Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of folks in the

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Speaker 1: crowd who consider ourselves Satanists, but not theistic Satanists. Theistic

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Speaker 1: Satanism is the idea that all the stuff you've read

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Speaker 1: about heaven and hell and good and evil is real,

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Speaker 1: and that you knowing that would choose to be on

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Speaker 1: the side of evil. That is maybe the best beginning

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Speaker 1: to the Order of Nine angles from UFOs to psychic

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Speaker 1: powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events.

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Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. A production of iHeart Radios

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is My

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Speaker 3: name is Nolan.

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Speaker 1: They call me Bed and we were joined as always

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Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Mission Control deck. And most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you. You are here and that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Quick check in

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Speaker 1: is we want to do recently? How are you guys?

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Speaker 3: Feeling feeling good? Did some traveling? Now I'm back. It's

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Speaker 3: good to be with you, guys.

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Speaker 2: Good to be with you, dude in the sacred space.

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Speaker 2: That is stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Hey, I got to know. None of you

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Speaker 3: will ever hear it, but I got to be on

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Speaker 3: an episode of Ridiculous History this weekend.

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Speaker 1: That's right. That's right.

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Speaker 2: And the reason that no one of us will ever

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Speaker 2: hear is because we forgot to record it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we recorded a version of it, that's true while

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Speaker 1: you were on Adventures, Matt.

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Speaker 3: Well, there we go. See. It was just an ephemeral

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Speaker 3: moment that occurred, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope

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Speaker 3: you guys did too. Oh gosh, you saved the show. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I don't accept your what you say, but it was

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Speaker 3: it was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's paint a picture real quick. Matt was the

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Speaker 2: voice of the super producer figure in the you know

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Speaker 2: scenario like super much like super Producer Paul mission Control Deck,

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Speaker 2: but he was super Producer Matt, the mad Man Frederick,

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Speaker 2: and he decided it would be fun, and it ended

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Speaker 2: up being very fun if he was off stage like

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Speaker 2: the voice of God, like the man behind the curtain,

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Speaker 2: and he chimed in with great quotes and did voices

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Speaker 2: and sound effects and it was just a delight.

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Speaker 3: Man. All I said were words written by mister Ben Bowlin.

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Speaker 1: Oh a lot of those were quotations from Richard Warren Sears.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, then big ups, Richard.

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Speaker 1: And you did some great re enactments, so we I

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Speaker 1: hope you will be able to join us for a

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Speaker 1: recorded episode of that show one day. You also, can

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Speaker 1: we mention this on air? You were in New Orleans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I went to Crime Con and just hung out

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Speaker 3: for a little bit, met a wonderful couple the last

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Speaker 3: names white and Black. They were they were really awesome.

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Speaker 3: And uh, I did some moderating of a panel. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was. It was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: We've been doing more and more of these paneled things recently. No, no, Paul,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know that despite trying to cajole you

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Speaker 1: into talking on the shows, it's not really your bag.

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Speaker 1: So maybe for a check in with you, we can

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Speaker 1: get a thumb up or a thumb down? Is this

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Speaker 1: a thumbs up or thumbs down?

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Speaker 3: Day?

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's a vigorous thumbs up.

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Speaker 2: As a specific follow up question, Paul, I saw you

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Speaker 2: at movies the other day going to see a film.

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Speaker 2: Was that thumbs up or thumbs down? Film? Double thumbs up?

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Speaker 2: You gotta remind me what it was called again, Diamentino.

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Speaker 2: And it seemed like a really kind of interesting, twisty

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Speaker 2: not sci fi, but kind of an interesting, absurdist, weird

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Speaker 2: kind of ride. I'm looking forward to checking it out.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, here we are again, folks, and we

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Speaker 1: hope that your check in with yourself has gone well.

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Speaker 1: Feel free to tell us about it. If you discovered

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Speaker 1: something especially strange. You can you don't have to wait.

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Speaker 1: You can just pause the episode and call us now

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Speaker 1: because we have a call in number.

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Speaker 3: That's right, We're one eight three to three cd wy All.

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Speaker 2: I was saying at once, make it more and.

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Speaker 3: Less intelligible more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun. People like rituals. Well, it feels like

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Speaker 2: a ritual. It feels like we're summoning something when we

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Speaker 2: say that.

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Speaker 1: And here we are again, folks, conspiracy realists, long time

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Speaker 1: and first time listeners, thank you for tuning in. We

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Speaker 1: have spent several recent episodes diving into the true crime

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Speaker 1: aspects of this show. Proven conspiracies, many horrifying or disquieting

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Speaker 1: things that were acts of mundane human beings, just kind

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Speaker 1: of crappy people who were self important and or had

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Speaker 1: power and wanted more of it. That's kind of how

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Speaker 1: this stuff goes often. But don't worry. We have never

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Speaker 1: forgotten about the supernatural side of this show, the world

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Speaker 1: of the occult, the world of the hidden, the esoteric,

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Speaker 1: the unknown. Today we are delving into the controversial world

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Speaker 1: of what is called theistic Satanism and the strange story

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Speaker 1: of something called the Order of nine angles. Angles not angels. Well,

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Speaker 1: what the heck is this thing? You might ask. The

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Speaker 1: best way to answer this question is to begin laying

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Speaker 1: down some groundwork first. So here are the facts. Most

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Speaker 1: people are cartoonishly wrong about Satanism. It's just true, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when you hear satanism, you probably think about some

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Speaker 3: of the imagery that I myself have placed into videos

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Speaker 3: about Satanism. Robed figures, bapphamets everywhere, horns of goats, yea,

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Speaker 3: and certainly pentagrams, pentacles, all of those kinds of things.

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Speaker 3: The chanting yes is definitely one and oh always almost

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Speaker 3: always black, like just black clothing with some hints of red,

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Speaker 3: or maybe all red with some hints of black, ahead

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Speaker 3: of a certainly heads.

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Speaker 1: Of goods, black goat with a thousand young.

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Speaker 3: Yes, sacrifices both animal and human right right.

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Speaker 1: The idea here is there's a secretive group of humans

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Speaker 1: and maybe some not quite humans, opposed to the more

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Speaker 1: publicly dominant narrative, ideology or religious movements of Christianity, Judaism, Islam.

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Speaker 1: The people of the book right and the people who

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Speaker 1: worshiped this monotheistic god who has in this entity's past

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Speaker 1: had a conflict with an adversary sometimes called Lucifer more

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Speaker 1: old scratch, the devil and Diablo. What are other good

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Speaker 1: devil names, like the actual devil not demons? Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: the one, yeah, and that the morning Star and the

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Speaker 1: morning Star, right, God's number two, the light Bringer.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good one.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it gets into that Promethean thing.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: So the idea here is for most people they think

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Speaker 1: of stereotypical Satan or devil worshipers, they're picturing people who

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Speaker 1: accept this sort of supernatural or religious narrative, right, that

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Speaker 1: there is a God and God had an adversary of

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Speaker 1: some sort who is known by these names. This was

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Speaker 1: once an angel, first among the angels, and then it

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Speaker 1: fell in rebellion and it took its fellow mutineers with it.

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Speaker 1: And now these people who worship this fallen angel seek

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Speaker 1: to spread this message and to transform this the mundane

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Speaker 1: world into something closer to his infernal vision. They also

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Speaker 1: seem to usually informally refer to Satan as a dude.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And it's almost it's interesting how it's seen

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Speaker 3: as And we actually talked to David Ike briefly about this,

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Speaker 3: how there are these two opposing forces a force of

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Speaker 3: light and of darkness essentially, or corruption on the other side,

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Speaker 3: like creation and corruption.

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Speaker 1: Some kind of duality bounces around in a lot of things, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and gnosticism as well, in Star Wars movies, Star Wars movies,

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Speaker 1: and some animistic beliefs.

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Speaker 3: I don't really know where I'm going with I'm just

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Speaker 3: to say like that that really is such an old

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Speaker 3: vision of how the universe functions within these sects or

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Speaker 3: within these groups.

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Speaker 1: So how accurate are these images that pop up when

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Speaker 1: we hear the word, you know, Satanism or Satan worshippers.

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Speaker 1: Luckily for us, they are not very accurate at all.

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Speaker 1: There are several well let's call them genres of Satanism, right,

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Speaker 1: and there are multiple interpretations of things that could be

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Speaker 1: called Satan in these genres, or there are people's interpretation

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Speaker 1: of what this thing called Satan actually means or represents.

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Speaker 1: And without getting too into the weeds on old Boys identity,

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Speaker 1: we'd like to refer you to our earlier video episode.

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Speaker 1: There's all about the origins of Satan in Near Eastern

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Speaker 1: and Western ideology.

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Speaker 3: Can we even have a show called Are there Real

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Speaker 3: Satan Worshippers? Or something? Oh? We do.

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Speaker 1: We do have that as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it dees into almost all the questions you

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Speaker 3: might have like at the beginning of this.

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Speaker 1: So we're skipping all of that. Yeah, So if you

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Speaker 1: pause today's episode to call us and leave us a

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Speaker 1: message telling us how you're doing, which, thank you by

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Speaker 1: the way. If you did, feel free to posit again

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Speaker 1: and watch those YouTube videos as long as you're not

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Speaker 1: you know, driving or flying a plane or something like that.

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Speaker 1: So let's assume you umposit it, and now you know

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Speaker 1: all about the origins of satan and whether they're real

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Speaker 1: Satan worshippers. As with any religion or religious movement, Satanism

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Speaker 1: has numerous branches. It's more of a convenient umbrella term

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Speaker 1: for some related beliefs rather than any specific dogma because

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Speaker 1: they they have vastly different opinions. But they do have

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Speaker 1: some commonalities, right they have They have a couple of

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Speaker 1: things that they all generally agree on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, largely an interest in magic that can be played

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Speaker 2: out in several ways, either like as some sort of psychodrama,

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Speaker 2: which to me is a ritualized kind of performative kind

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Speaker 2: of experience. Sure is that? Is there another way of

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Speaker 2: looking at that well.

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Speaker 1: It's uh, yeah, it's it's one in which the you know,

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Speaker 1: we get catharsis, which is why people watch and participate

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Speaker 1: in plays. So it's sort of an empowerment of Catharsis

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Speaker 1: or a leveraging of that. So now the person who

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Speaker 1: the person psychodramas everywhere, it's in Christianity, it's an innocuous

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Speaker 1: version of psychodrama. Would be the re enactment of the

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Speaker 1: birth of the Christ child, got it, which all the

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Speaker 1: kids do in church. But in this stuff, they're like,

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Speaker 1: I in this role, now am whatever.

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Speaker 3: Deity I see.

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Speaker 2: So really a performative ritual is kind of a good right.

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Speaker 2: Or there's another kind of ritual which is maybe less performative.

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Speaker 2: It would ascribe mystical events and much more of a

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Speaker 2: magical power kind of to these acts, as opposed to

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Speaker 2: the psychodrama, which to me maybe it implies that you're

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Speaker 2: embodying it, but it's more a catharsist rather than some

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Speaker 2: kind of like.

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Speaker 1: Spell the first or the second little psychodrama. Psychodrama, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because the mystical event that would.

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Speaker 3: Be that that is more of a spell.

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Speaker 2: That is more of like saying I am doing this

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Speaker 2: to create this effect, you know, in real time.

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Speaker 1: And we can we can also explore an instance of that,

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Speaker 1: but we would want people to know what's what's going

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Speaker 1: on first. But yeah, so that's that's one thing, Yes,

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Speaker 1: this interest in magic and the ritualized performance or inaction

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Speaker 1: of magic. But that's not it, right, there's other stuff.

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Speaker 2: There's also a sense of community, the creation of a

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Speaker 2: community that defines roles and a hierarchy, a relationship between

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Speaker 2: members somewhere between people who share a mystical pursuit to

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Speaker 2: those who live according to a set of religious belief doctrine.

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Speaker 3: And generally, when you're talking about a lot of this

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Speaker 3: stuff and how they're forming their community, you're talking about

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Speaker 3: people who really see this philosophy of a symbolic lucifer

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Speaker 3: or satan, which is more about yourself, your own like

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Speaker 3: the single member's nonconformity to society in almost every way

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Speaker 3: or as many ways as are achievable.

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Speaker 1: Right, philosophy thriving on They maybe instead of nonconformity, they

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Speaker 1: might say something like the benefits of being true to oneself.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And in that way, it's it's a lot of

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Speaker 3: times about breaking your chains from a lot of societal's.

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Speaker 1: Norms depending on the type of Satanists.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, right.

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Speaker 1: Because you know, there can be conformity with there can

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Speaker 1: be internal conformity strictly enforced in groups that are externally nonconforming,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a little.

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Speaker 1: Bit of a securitiest way to put that point, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right. The more there's some that focus a

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Speaker 3: lot on individual like the individuality, others on like the

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Speaker 3: actual sect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course the last commonality not a big spoiler,

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Speaker 1: some sort of reference to Satan, if not worship of

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Speaker 1: a singular entity. And there there are many many Satanist groups,

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Speaker 1: the best known of which are today are probably the

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Speaker 1: Church of Satan Anton Leavey right, and the spin off

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Speaker 1: of that the I almost called it the sequel of Set,

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Speaker 1: the Temple of Set. It's sort of like how Golden

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Speaker 1: Girls was a spinoff of Maud, but with Satan. That's

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Speaker 1: a deep cut for Golden Girls fans. So the Church

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Speaker 1: of Satan and the Temple of Set have this sort

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Speaker 1: of low level hierarchical leadership and kind of a loosely

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Speaker 1: agreed upon thing. We agree these following things and then

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Speaker 1: do as they'll wilt. So I want to be very

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Speaker 1: careful not to seem disrespectful of anyone's personal religious beliefs.

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Speaker 1: If you were listening to this, odds are you are

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Speaker 1: probably not in the Church of Satan, just because there

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Speaker 1: are so many other religions with so many other adherents

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Speaker 1: out there. But your personal beliefs are your own, as

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Speaker 1: long as you're not inflicting them on anyone else, you know,

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Speaker 1: or harming someone. It's our opinion that you can do

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Speaker 1: what you want, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely agreed.

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Speaker 1: So with that all in mind, here are some just

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Speaker 1: a few different types of Satanism, right, there's one that

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Speaker 1: I think you were you're probably alluding to directly. They're

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Speaker 1: matt rational Satanism. It's secularized. It comes about in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. It's atheistic, meaning that there's not really a God,

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Speaker 1: there's not They calling it Satanism is sort of using

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Speaker 1: Satan as a stand in for something else. This was

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Speaker 1: under the direction of the famous Anton Levey, an author

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Speaker 1: and occultist based in The States, who you can find

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Speaker 1: audio and video recordings of his voice. Sounds far less

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Speaker 1: sinister than one would initially, you know, assume.

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Speaker 3: It really does, and I will never understand why he

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Speaker 3: didn't begin going like exclusively by Xander Levy because his

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Speaker 3: I mean having s Zander totally has a middle name

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Speaker 3: that's powerful.

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Speaker 2: I just thought he looked like Ming the Merciless from

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Speaker 2: the Flash Gordon movie.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, hm, wow, he really does interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well, Western society as a thing with bald

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Speaker 1: or shaved head guys and goatee's.

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Speaker 2: It's a very pointy goateee. It's a particular type of goatee.

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Speaker 2: It's like that super angled kind of one.

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Speaker 3: Yes and uh. And this this gentleman, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 3: call him Xander. Yeah, go for it, man, or do

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Speaker 3: as thou wilt see that. That's the whole of the law.

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Speaker 3: He created the Satanic Bible. It still to this day

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Speaker 3: remains available. You can find it. It's one of the

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Speaker 3: most at least most available books that you can find

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Speaker 3: about Satanism or the Satanic religion. And he formed this

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Speaker 3: thing known as the Church of Satan that we've already mentioned.

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Speaker 3: It is by far the most well known. It's the

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Speaker 3: thing that is mentioned. Oh what's the what is that show?

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, why can't I think of it? It's on

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Speaker 3: HBO it's a comedy about nerds. It's awesome, dead wood

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Speaker 3: freaking No, what is it? What's it called, Paul, It's

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Speaker 3: the Silicon.

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Speaker 1: Valley, Jesus Silicon Valley.

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Speaker 3: You'll see it mentioned or at least referenced heavily in

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Speaker 3: Silicon Valley where there's a Satanist character who talks about

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Speaker 3: Anthon Levey all the time. And again, as you said,

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Speaker 3: it's it's all about atheism, it's about the individual essentially

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Speaker 3: being empowered. And it really does have this nice symbolic

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Speaker 3: mirror going on between you know, satan rebelling against God

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Speaker 3: or whatever the large God is and then the Satanist

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Speaker 3: rebelling against mainstream culture or mainstream religion.

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Speaker 1: Right right, there is a nice symmetry to the structure

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Speaker 1: of the philosophy. Right And it's exactly as you said.

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Speaker 1: According to Levy, neither God nor Satan are actual beings,

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Speaker 1: and this is heretical to many people who believe otherwise,

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Speaker 1: even some Satanists or people who consider themselves such. The

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Speaker 1: only God in this sort of Satanism is the person themselves,

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Speaker 1: the individual. So Satan quote unquote, Satan is a symbol

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Speaker 1: representing the qualities that Satanists embrace. So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like they took a character that they thought was cool

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Speaker 1: and didn't think was real, like Superman or something, and

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Speaker 1: they said, that's it. Those are the things you want

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Speaker 1: to aspire to be. So invoking the name of Satan

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Speaker 1: and other infernal names is a tool in the rituals

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Speaker 1: to focus one's mind on the manifestation of those qualities

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Speaker 1: and those workings.

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Speaker 3: Tipping the hat to Alistair c of course.

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Speaker 1: No, right, yeah, yeah, he's still in play.

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Speaker 2: Have you guys seen Good Omens? Yeah, then you TV adaptation.

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Speaker 1: I preferred it to the book. I found the book

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Speaker 1: whimsical in a way that didn't really speak to me.

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Speaker 1: But I know I'm gonna get some heat for that.

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Speaker 2: I found that about the show. I couldn't make it

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Speaker 2: through episode one. I thought it was a little too keatsy,

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Speaker 2: and the CGI I really called too much attention to itself.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna give another shot, though.

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Speaker 4: But Crowley is the name of the demon character, which

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Speaker 4: is based on the self styled most evil or wicked

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Speaker 4: man in the world, Alistair Crowley, famous famous sexual predator,

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Speaker 4: heroin addict, and egomaniac.

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Speaker 3: There you go, doing yeah to have it parties doing

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Speaker 3: rituals in the middle of the Great Pyramid with his wife.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, that's that's true. I am being I am

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Speaker 1: being a bit flippant about that because I think that

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Speaker 1: guy gets more credit than he deserves. But but in

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Speaker 1: some circles he is considered a pioneer.

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Speaker 3: I've never done that.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I would be surprised if you had. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's just we can do an episode on that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I need to be more fair and come to

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Speaker 1: terms with it. So the problem. The problem is that

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Speaker 1: at certain points in Crowley's life, and this is a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a soapbox for me, at certain points

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Speaker 1: in Crowley's life he demonstrably functions more as a con

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Speaker 1: artist than a true believer in someone's thing. Noh, if

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Speaker 1: you're not. If you are a true believer in something

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Speaker 1: and you're not hurting people, it doesn't matter what someone

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Speaker 1: else believes about it, you know what I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: your decision. But if you are an acting harm on

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Speaker 1: people who you know I've not agreed to be in

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Speaker 1: your shenanigans, or if you are pretending to believe something

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Speaker 1: that you do not believe for the purpose of bilking

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Speaker 1: the credulous. Then what are you? You're not You're not

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Speaker 1: a leader of people. You're not you're not a holy being.

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Speaker 1: You're You're the same as anybody playing a crooked game

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Speaker 1: of three card Monti.

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Speaker 2: And just for the record, Ming the Merciless and Out

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Speaker 2: they look exactly the same. I just want to point

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Speaker 2: that out.

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Speaker 1: So Knowle's holding this. Yeah, I've got comics from The Merciless.

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Speaker 2: Look that's them. That's that's Levey and Ming the Merciless.

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Speaker 1: Right, they modeled it after after being but several other ones. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because there there are other characters that appear in Oh,

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Speaker 1: what's that Flash Gordon comics? Do you guys remember Flash

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Speaker 1: Gordon comics.

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Speaker 2: That's who Ming the Merciless is from.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but there's there's a predecess. Then maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of someone else because I swear there's a predecessor. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: so my Encyclopedia of super Villains.

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Speaker 2: I'm just talking about the movie and the you know

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Speaker 2: with the Queen soundtrack fresh Oh Master of a University.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's good stuff.

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Speaker 1: So in comparison to or in contrast rather uh to

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Speaker 1: the Church of say philosophy, there are theistic Satanists. These

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Speaker 1: are what we think about, right, if we're the average person,

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Speaker 1: we're thinking about what.

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Speaker 3: A Satanist is.

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Speaker 1: To members of this branch, Satan is not just some symbol,

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Speaker 1: nor some clever useful metaphor. Instead, Satan is a genuine,

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Speaker 1: actual entity.

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Speaker 2: These are the ones that you could refer to as

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Speaker 2: devil worshippers.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, yeah, they might worship associated demons as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Different groups of theistic Satanists may have differing interpretations about

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Speaker 1: the nature of this being, but they all agree it's real.

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Speaker 1: It's similar in a way to the processed Church of

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Speaker 1: the Final Judgment. How they would have some Lucifers and

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Speaker 1: then they would have some what are they Sets or Satanists,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember, but they some worship this sort of

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Speaker 1: light bringer Promethean aspect, and others worship this punishment and

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Speaker 1: fascist aspect. So examples of this include things like the

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Speaker 1: Temple of Set, the Golden Girls to the mad of

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Speaker 1: Church of Satan, and then something called the Order of

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Speaker 1: Nine Angles also known as o NA or nine A,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the and a lot of these

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Speaker 1: sorts of self styled organizations just like scientology or just

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Speaker 1: like federal government agencies. There's a huge emphasis placed on

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Speaker 1: the on initialisms and acronyms.

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Speaker 3: So let's talk about how they were founded. But let's

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Speaker 3: do that after a quick word from our sponsor. All Right,

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Speaker 3: we're back. Let's talk about the Order of the Nine Angles.

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Speaker 3: So according to you know, one of the I guess

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Speaker 3: the common story that you can see people within the

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Speaker 3: Order of the Nine Angles, which are we We're gonna

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Speaker 3: get into it later. It's a bit hard as an

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Speaker 3: outsider to discern what is what, as we'll find later

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Speaker 3: in the episode within the Order of the Nine Angles.

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Speaker 3: But of the things that are publicly facing in the

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Speaker 3: virtual world, the common story is that the organization itself

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Speaker 3: was founded sometime in the nineteen sixties, and then as

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Speaker 3: it continued along, it started to gain more and more attention,

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Speaker 3: especially in the nineteen eighties, and a lot of it

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Speaker 3: had to do with activism, specifically neo Nazi activism, which

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Speaker 3: tied this group into its self described traditional Satanism.

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Speaker 1: Right at times. The Order of the Nine Angles has

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Speaker 1: been described as one of the world's most extremist and

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Speaker 1: dangerous of Satanic groups, and it's known for its support

435
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: of far right militant movements overwhelmingly racially or religiously motivated.

436
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: Wece called it the most secret of Satanic groups as well,

437
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: claiming that it advocates for animal sacrifice, human sacrifice, and

438
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: reshaping the world entire to one's will. So what is

439
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: the true story? Where does the order of nine angles

440
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: come from? And how do the rumors stack up to

441
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: the facts. Here's where it gets crazy. First version, according

442
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: to their story, it's very much like you said, man.

443
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: First version, it's established in the nineteen sixties by this

444
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: shady lady who's usually called not an intentional rhyme, usually

445
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: called lady Master, and she had previously, according to the

446
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: story the tale they spend, been involved in a quote

447
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: secretive pre Christian tradition that survived in the Welsh marches

448
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: of Western England. So before the time or the rise

449
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: of Christian ideology, there was this secret mystery religion and

450
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: this person inherited the secrets passed down through ritual, through

451
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: oral folklore, through rites and passages, unbeknownst to the greater

452
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: world and the the nine to a or Ona believe

453
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: that Satan is one of two a causual beings. A

454
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: causual being something that is not dependent upon cause for

455
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: it to exist, something that sort of prefigures the if

456
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: then reality of human existence. These eternal beings are there

457
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: are two of them, going back to thinking about duality, right,

458
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: One is Bathomet, was female in their mind, and one

459
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: is Satan, who is male in their mind. And then

460
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, a guy calling himself Anton Long

461
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: was initiated into this group, eventually attaining the title of

462
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 1: Grand Master, and he really popularized the group with other

463
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: groups because he was quite prolific. He was the Alexander

464
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: Hamilton of his group. He wrote to wrote and wrote

465
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: and wrote Man the Kid is NonStop, et cetera, other

466
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: quotes from the Hamilton Broadway Show. Because of this, you'll

467
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: hear a lot of people say that he was really

468
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: the de facto founder. It suspected that the person was

469
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: the original. They called her the Lady. Master eventually had

470
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: a child with the person calling themselves Anton Long and

471
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: relocated to Australia, at which point Long began running the

472
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: show There you go.

473
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll you'll find you'll find different versions of it.

474
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 3: One in this website called a cult study dot Org

475
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: talks about how it was Anton Long who actually, and

476
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 3: again this is probably likely from whoever is calling themselves,

477
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 3: like you said, Ben anton Long, from the own his

478
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 3: own writings essentially where he brought together three different groups,

479
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: essentially three different secret orders. What is it Nocturllian's the

480
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: Temple of the Sun and the Kamlad tradition, that this

481
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: guy brought them all together and created this thing called

482
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 3: O nine A. And again you'll find very versions of

483
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 3: it throughout the internet.

484
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: Right. They expanded on the order's concepts and their ideas

485
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: in all these publications which we'll get into, and they

486
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: tied it into some oh what should we call it,

487
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: some contemporary politics of their time. There in nineteen eighty

488
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: eight they made their journal fin Rear, which was another

489
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: was another sort of rung in the ladder of walking

490
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: up to public prominence, which is what they always wanted.

491
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: With each publication, this group sought to establish links with

492
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: other neo Nazi Satanist groups, which are totally a thing,

493
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: and there are more than you might imagine. And by

494
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: that I mean not just not just people who are

495
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: being profiled because they're fans of metal, but yeah, people

496
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: honestly do consider themselves Satanists.

497
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is where we get into the full

498
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: society some of the strange occult beliefs and actions of

499
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: portions of the Nazi Party, or at least some of

500
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: the upper echelon of the Nazi Party.

501
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you mentioned that, because the Order

502
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: at times has preferred to describe its ideology as Nazi occult.

503
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: And it's strange the way these things become ephemeral. Right,

504
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: the names can be worn and discarded like old jackets, yeah.

505
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: Or reused and reshaped, and now it means something completely.

506
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: Different, redefined, right, yeah, like you know that. I mean,

507
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: that's also just a human thing, that's just a mundane thing.

508
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: There is some magical power and names for people who

509
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: are adherents of those belief systems. But take the term

510
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: neoliberal versus liberal. Liberal means something very different in an

511
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: international sphere than it does here. And the leading conservative

512
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: party in Australia, for instance, Australia just had an election

513
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: as we're recording this. The leading conservative party is the

514
00:29:59,040 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: Liberal Party.

515
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: Believe there you go.

516
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: I don't know names, what are they? Maybe they are

517
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: all old jackets.

518
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: So the Order prefers to describe itself it's ideology rather

519
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: as Nazi occult. So that's promoting a supernatural system of

520
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:21,719
Speaker 2: thought that condemns liberal Judeo Christian society and longs for

521
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: a new imperial age created by a sub Nietzschean superman

522
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: figure called the Index. And that is not Windex pronounced

523
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: with a German accent. It's the Index, the v that's right.

524
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: They that's true.

525
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, here it is, and they anton long to do that.

526
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: Right, and ultimately the idea is to expand to the

527
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: stars and to bring this ideology outside of the terrestrial sphere.

528
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: Woo.

529
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's it's an ambitious belief system.

530
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: It sounds like they want to be stormtroopers, you know

531
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: what I mean, like full on the whatever the New

532
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 3: Order is in the new Star Wars systems. It feels

533
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 3: like that to me.

534
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: And they also did some really disturbing stuff the way

535
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: it's tied up in this kind of love of fascism

536
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: and this again I don't know how sincere it is,

537
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: this worship of characters like Adolf Hitler. So that's the

538
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: first version. The second version's a little different, and it

539
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: dives into more mundane matters according to observers and commentators,

540
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: and you'll find a surprising amount of literature on this.

541
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: There is no real Anton Long. This is a pseudonym

542
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: used by a British former Neo Nazi named David Mayat.

543
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: I think it's Mayat M. Yatt who either used this

544
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: organization to further his own ends or created an elaborate

545
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: hoax out of whole cloth. Yeah. He's known in Britain

546
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: for being a hardline national socialist or neo Nazi, advocating

547
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: national socialism as well as violence. In the past, he's

548
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: been implicated in physical beatings of people. And usually when

549
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: these sorts of characters are implicated in violence, they attack

550
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: in packs, you know what I mean. So like a

551
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: group of people jumping a single person the nine to

552
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: a grab national attention and the global war on terror

553
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: when the organization was second or even third hand associated

554
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: with series of murders.

555
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: So then this order wanted to you know, move up,

556
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: get some more things like not really infiltrate, just bring

557
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: in other groups to grow their own ranks, right, So

558
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 3: they attempted to infiltrate some of these non Satanic Nazi

559
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 3: groups or neo Nazi movements such as there's one specifically

560
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 3: just mentioned in several publications called the Waffen Division, which

561
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: is often ATAM whatever it is Atom Waffen, and it's

562
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: a US based organization. And this group, at least its

563
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: affiliates killed five people in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen.

564
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: So this is recent. This is very recent, and it

565
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 3: is a real group. It's just sounds it sounds odd.

566
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: So from the law enforcement side of things, the all

567
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: this esoterica and a cult ritual doesn't really matter anymore

568
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: than say, like a gang initiation or some kind of

569
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: really heavy hazing.

570
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, exactly, because they're not going to It's useful

571
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: in that it can identify members of an organization, but

572
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: to then, you know, imagine, if your job is to

573
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: stop organized crime and gang killings, you want to learn

574
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: about these groups so that you can to some degree

575
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: predict and prevent, predict their behavior and prevent further criminal acts.

576
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: But you're not you know, odds are if you're if

577
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: you're in the FBI or something, You're not going to

578
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: stay up at night worrying that these people may curse you.

579
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: You're more concerned about whether they have access to firearms

580
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: and explosives. It's a you know, it's it's kind of

581
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: a more grounded or mundane look at this. However, do

582
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: you have to stay on a side note. I did

583
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: find two Freedom of Information Act request to the FBI

584
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: about this order of nine angles, and in both cases

585
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: the FBI responded by saying that they searched and they

586
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: didn't have anything there you go, So maybe they're not

587
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: a big deal. I don't know. Mayat, for his own

588
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: his own right, has also, in addition to nine things

589
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: like the Holocaust, denied that he ever went by the

590
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: name Anton Long. He also went through iterations where he

591
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: practiced as a Buddhist monk, and then he embraced radical Islam,

592
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: praising al Kahi and attempting to unite Nazis and Islamic terrorists.

593
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 3: That's nightmare material.

594
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: That's an odd couple, isn't it. Yeah, it seems strange, right,

595
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: But so so we already see in the origins of

596
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: this thing there is a bit of duplicity. The question

597
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: is whether it's purposeful or whether it's just kind of bungling,

598
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? How much of this is

599
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: meant to be taken seriously? How much of it is

600
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: meant to be believed? I think we mentioned a little

601
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: bit about their process, and you mentioned vendex. What about

602
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: the the rest of their beliefs? What's their plan?

603
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they believe that civilization has to be destroyed

604
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 2: from within, completely undermined and disassembled, dismantled. So the adherents

605
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: are actually encouraged to be pretty awful people, like, as

606
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: you know, part of their whole prescribed course of making

607
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: this happen. So that includes things like committing crimes, random

608
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: acts of violence, actual assaults, and even this whole like

609
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: genocide kind of idea, calling human victims.

610
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: They also embrace magic. They do share that same commonality

611
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: that we had mentioned at the.

612
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 3: Top, right.

613
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: But when we talk about their magic, what are we

614
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: talking about? I guess that's part of why they're called

615
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 1: the Order of the Nine Angles.

616
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 3: All right, you ready for this? I got this from

617
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: nine a dot org and it's just a post there,

618
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 3: and it's talking about what the nine angles actually represent.

619
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: So it says, quote, their nine angles refer to the

620
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 3: nine combinations of the three basic alchemical substances mercury, sulfur, salt.

621
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: And these nine angles slash combinations were first outlined in

622
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: this text. It's from nineteen seventy four. It's called emanations

623
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 3: of Urania, Urania, Urania who knows, And these nine combinations

624
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: can be used to symbolize how the causal and a

625
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 3: causal are manifest to us, as for instance, in our

626
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 3: psyche the nexion of causal, a causal that we are

627
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 3: via archetypes, personality types. And it just goes on with

628
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 3: stuff that I honestly am struggling to understand.

629
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: And a lot of this, a lot of writing in

630
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: this sphere, whether it's howking left hand path or right

631
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: hand path, stuff does tend to be a little bit obtuse.

632
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: They also practice something that they call the sevenfold Way.

633
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: So the sevenfold Way is a series of steps meant

634
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: to make someone a practical master of all forms of

635
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: sorcery physically mentally fit in this way is divided into

636
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: these seven stages. The stages are neophyte, initiate, external adept,

637
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: internal adept, master of temple or mistress of earth, a

638
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: grand master or grand mistress, and of course immortal. Sometimes

639
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: initiates are described or called novices, and adepts are called

640
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: priests or priestess. It goes on mais majastrap.

641
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: It's also known as heb hebdomedry Hm. Is that our

642
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 3: word for today, matt Hebdomedry? Well, the sevenfold way? How

643
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: does it? How's it spelled? H G B d O

644
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 3: m A d r y all right? Uh?

645
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: Someone used that in a sentence and call us.

646
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: Uh.

647
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: So it's strange when we look at this, because what

648
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: what we're seeing quickly becomes a rabbit hole of accult

649
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: philosophy and working again tied in very much like the

650
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: Thule Society or Tule Society.

651
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 3: To these.

652
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: To these race based beliefs. Uh. And what what we

653
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: pointed out, however, should already be pretty disturbing. The purpose

654
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: here for the members of this society, by their own statements,

655
00:38:54,400 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: are to destroy what we know of as civilization and

656
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: up to and including human sacrifice, which they do talk

657
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: about at length, and which differentiates them from a lot

658
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: of other Satanic groups. Let's let's pause for a moment

659
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsors, and then, assuming that

660
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: we have not been killed via magical means, let's explore

661
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: a little bit more about their work.

662
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 3: We made it. We're still here. Yes, no one has

663
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 3: gotten us by magical, psychic or more traditional means. So

664
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 3: that's good.

665
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 1: Let's check on Paul.

666
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 3: Yep, Oh, he's there. He's intact, all right, good.

667
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: I don't know when his eyes turned all black.

668
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 2: But you know it's it's it's it's just called the Monday.

669
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: It's a Monday, a cosmetic thing. Yeah, yeah, these kids

670
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: these days, so they're not this group. The Order of

671
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: Nine Angles is not known for subtlety, especially so they

672
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: have a book called The Black Book of Satan, comes

673
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: in three volumes. These are considered so extreme that they're

674
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: kept in a special section of the British Library. They're

675
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: not available to the general public. You have to ask

676
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: for the metacounter research purposes kind of thing. That's because

677
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: these books repeatedly talk about the idea of calling committee

678
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: acts of violence and destabilization up to an including terrorism

679
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: and with active culling. What's fascinating is one of the

680
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: steps that they're told to do is to groom someone

681
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: to voluntarily submit to being sacrificed. That's the ultimate, the

682
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: ultimate coup there. And they also have an interesting work

683
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: study program for lack of a better term, that they

684
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: send their members on Would.

685
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: You believe I had looked up The Black Book of

686
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: Satan on Amazon and there is one paperback available used

687
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,280
Speaker 2: for eight hundred and sixty four dollars.

688
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would believe that. I guess they're hard to

689
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 3: get a hold of.

690
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: That happens with a lot of occult books. Yeah, I

691
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: mean it maybe's too that someone has someone is either

692
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: like bilking someone or they have multiple copies and they're

693
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: just putting them out one at a time. I saw

694
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: that before, you know, I wonder if anybody does have

695
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: a copy of the Black Book of Satan.

696
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: I found a free download pdf on a cultboards dot com.

697
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's the real deal.

698
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: I don't know.

699
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 3: Hah, yeah, right, getting a PDF of the Black Book

700
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: of Satan. I laugh at the that's fair. So let's

701
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 3: get into what is required of ONA members who were

702
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 3: going along that sevenfold path trying to get into one

703
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 3: of the noxioms or whatever they're called.

704
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that work study, I was mentioning.

705
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: Exactly one of these, one of these cells essentially, so

706
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 3: they they want people to spend six months either just

707
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 3: traveling like hitchhiking the way you would a traditional traveler

708
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 3: along that path, working as either a burglar, maybe working

709
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 3: even as a police officer, or infiltrating some version of

710
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 3: an extremist political group where you're just kind of roaming

711
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 3: and in working inside one of these other organizations.

712
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: Two things that connect with this. This is very inspiring

713
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: for any of us horror writers in the audience. There

714
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: used to be a television show maybe in the nineties

715
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: early two thousands that was sort of this scary anthology

716
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: show called The Hitchhiker. Yeah, remember that and the Hitchhiker.

717
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: The frame was that someone picks up the hitch hiker

718
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: and terrible stuff happens, which was gold. But it makes me,

719
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: it makes me see how appealing this could be to

720
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: people who are fearmongers in the nineteen eighties nineteen nineties

721
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: satanic panic scare here in the United States. Could say

722
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: Satanists are all around you. They're low level criminals, they're hitchhikers,

723
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: they're living off the grid. You know, they're going to

724
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: rainbow gatherings or you know, they're hopping trains. They're avoiding

725
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: the spotlight of mainstream America. And with the fact that

726
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: you know that seems like that seems like just some

727
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: something people would say to us sell headlines right or

728
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: get people to tune into sixty minutes or something. But

729
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: here we have a real group saying yes, go do

730
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: this for six months.

731
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. Especially what baffles me is thinking that, at least

732
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: on this list where it was mentioned saying a police

733
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 3: officer would be a good route for this. And I

734
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 3: guess it's because you're you're essentially practicing power over others.

735
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 3: I guess there are reasons that a police officer would

736
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 3: be I think on that list.

737
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, in in one passage they said, do something that

738
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: is far outside your previous life experience, but working and

739
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: law enforcement will give you Liam Neeson esque certain set

740
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: of skills. There you go, you know, for physical altercation,

741
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: tactical thinking.

742
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 3: Well that yeah, and that's something we kind of talked

743
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 3: about before in this when we're mentioning that sevenfold path

744
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 3: that you go down to join this group. It is

745
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 3: about the psychological, it's about the empowering that, it's about

746
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: empowering you psychically, it's about empowering you physically and all

747
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: these things. So I guess a police officer would be

748
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 3: a really good way to get there.

749
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: And from their literature, this has a this is weird.

750
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: I want to say, you guys think of this. So

751
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 1: from their literature they attempt to quote, undertake the role

752
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: of extreme political activists and so champion heretical views by

753
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: e g. Becoming involved in extreme right wing activism. They

754
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: demand this. In one of their introductory books, they say,

755
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: quote the aim is to express fanaticism and act x

756
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: and be seen by all right thinking people as extremists

757
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: and dangerous. So they want to be the people who

758
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 1: are I don't know, it feels to me like they're

759
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: talking about edginess for the sake of edginess. You know,

760
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: like they're gonna bust into an alt right meeting and

761
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: someone's gonna say, well, you know, I just I just

762
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: don't think we should. They're gonna bust into a tea

763
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: party meeting. Maybe let's make it even more innocuous, and

764
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: then they'll say I don't think we should pay taxes

765
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, additionally we should burn all the money.

766
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and everybody's like, oh, those guys are dangerous.

767
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: So so they've they've kind of got this idea of

768
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: again very very motivated by racism. They've kind of got

769
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: this idea similar to Joker in the Dark Night, where

770
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: they the heath Ledger Joker the good One, where they

771
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 1: want to just so chaos indiscriminately. But unlike the Joker,

772
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: who it was a fictional character and exists only to

773
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: spread chaos for the sake of chaos itself, this group

774
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: seeks to spread chaos to make it easier to propagate

775
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: their twisted world and cosmic view. So we see that's strange,

776
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: tragically not necessarily alien marriage of ideology. Here, the Nazis

777
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: and the so called Satanists uniteen to pursue goals that

778
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: are at least non mutually exclusive.

779
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 2: So for the nine to a fascism is actually seen

780
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: as a means to an end rather than an end

781
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: in and of itself, particularly this idea of a sinister

782
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 2: dialect that's the key to the aonic evolution of human

783
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 2: civilization into a higher form. But the Meijian Nazarene distortion,

784
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: also known as the Christians and the Jews, is holding

785
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: back Western civilization, according to this doctrine, from reaching its

786
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: final all step, some sort of evolutionary step, and must

787
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: be overthrown if humanity is to advance.

788
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 5: So holy war or unholy war, absolutely, yeah, And the

789
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 5: vision here goes to that thing that you mentioned earlier,

790
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 5: been that y index, yes.

791
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: Right, being led by index deep into the cosmos where

792
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: where we mentioned though, establish a galactic reich to champion

793
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: and make known our unique human destiny of galactic exploration

794
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: and the colonization of outer space. This is from the

795
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: Drekkian Way d R E C C I A. And

796
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: we're not recommending that you check out these books. We're

797
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: just letting you know that these are These are the

798
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: the tenets, the goals, and the aims as self described

799
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: by this by this uh organization.

800
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and they really do want to you know,

801
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: it's this concept at least of creating a sinister world.

802
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 3: But here's the thing. In order to have the world

803
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: be sinister, you got to make the people that are

804
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 3: living in that world or controlling and running that world sinister.

805
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 3: So they think this can happen through what they call

806
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 3: the practice of genuine modern heresies. I like that. I

807
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 3: don't mean to poke fun at it, but genuine modern heresies.

808
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: And this is you know, again taking yourself, the individual

809
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 3: person through all of these mental and physical trials that

810
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 3: you know, well, you're going through mental and physical trials

811
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: and at the same time you're also practicing magic with

812
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 3: a k so ritualizations things you're you're basically, I don't know,

813
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 3: you're you're honing yourself on all possible fronts to become evil.

814
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 3: I guess in a way, or maybe not, the word

815
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 3: evil is correct here, but to do the things that

816
00:48:58,480 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: the group wants to do. Well, here's a question.

817
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: Do you think people that are adherent to this kind

818
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: of belief system do they see themselves as evil?

819
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: That's interesting in some In some cases there would be

820
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: people associating with this because they want to they want

821
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: to be seen as evil.

822
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: But don't they just think that the path of satan

823
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: is the better path?

824
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: Many probably do.

825
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm just wondering if if good and evil

826
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: even enters into it at this point when when it

827
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 2: comes to your thinking behind getting behind something like this.

828
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: I guess that's why I was hesitant to use the term.

829
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 3: I guess I'm what I mean is adversarial to the

830
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 3: status quo and or the the ways in which society

831
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 3: are set up, in the institutions that hold that society up.

832
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: I'm just getting all big picture about it in my head,

833
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 2: and it's just interesting to think about the nature of

834
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: good and evil and this. Does true evil really see

835
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 2: itself that way? Or do they just believe that they're

836
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: actually doing what's best.

837
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: It's an interesting question because in many cases, yeah, in

838
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: many cases, all great villains are the heroes of their

839
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: own stories. Right, then say I'm doing terrible things, but

840
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: I'm doing it for a greater reason, right and there

841
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: you know, people have to die, but the world will

842
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: be better, et cetera, et cetera. The thing that's interesting

843
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: about some theistic satanism and why it can be so

844
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: attractive to people who are already involved in something that

845
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: puts the bulk of its emphasis on violence in the

846
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: short term is that there's not too much of a

847
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: leap to go to something else like this. And one

848
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: thing that's interesting about the question about regarding seeing oneself

849
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: as good or evil is that you can get a

850
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: little bit of a sense, not a reliable, not a

851
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,959
Speaker 1: one hundred percent reliable sense. You can get a little

852
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: bit of a sense of how someone sees themselves by

853
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: what emphasis they place on things. Do they place the

854
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: emphasis on their ultimate end goal? Vision? Is that like

855
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: seventy percent of this, you know, like most many religions

856
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: spend seventy percent or so of their time talking about

857
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: how to be a decent person now, right, or do

858
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: they spend the majority of their time talking about the

859
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: violet things they will do to get a vaguely explained

860
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: thing in the past, right or sorry, in the future. Yes, yes, yeah,

861
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: I mean that's to me. It's tough because it probably

862
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: varies case by case. But I'm sure in Satanism there

863
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: are a few people who think I am evil, I

864
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: embrace it, I'm the son of the beasts or whatever,

865
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 1: and they probably really believe it. Maybe they're misled.

866
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 2: You know, whatever does it for you is what I say.

867
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: Like we're talking about the beginning of the show. If

868
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 2: you can use religion and maybe not ritualistically murder people,

869
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: but if this does it for you, you know, being

870
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 2: evil or the idea of being evil, and you're not gonna,

871
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: you know, call an entire population, then I say, more

872
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: power to you. But unfortunately, this particular idea involved a

873
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 2: lot of these random acts of murder and rape and violence,

874
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: stuff doing unto the innocent. So can't get behind the

875
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 2: can't get behind the O nine A here, guys, I'm sorry,

876
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: I cannot throw my endorsement at this order.

877
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: Which is weird because it was your pitch, I know, sure,

878
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: and I think it was interesting because I had never

879
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: heard of this, and this leads us to maybe one

880
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: of our bigger questions which we always have to ask

881
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: with these sorts of groups. Is it a case of

882
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,760
Speaker 1: Satan's military, a Satanic army, or is it a case

883
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: more of internet bravery? You know? Like the Order has

884
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: been referred to as Satan's military, but it seems more

885
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: accurate to say that the Order or the people who

886
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: claim to be involved with it, because we can't verify

887
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people, seems accurate to say that

888
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: they are maybe militant in attitude more than organized and

889
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: violent in person, because the crimes that can be reasonably

890
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: traced to nine A affiliates and partner organizations seem to

891
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 1: be crimes that were sort of egged on by the group,

892
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: but not enacted by the group directly. And the nine

893
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: A was also once dismissed by other occultists as the

894
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: Order of no members because this one guy, David Mayat

895
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: and I think another guy named Malt appeared to be

896
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: the only visible figures within the organization. So how much

897
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: of it is just them writing prolifically under different names,

898
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

899
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 3: The pseudonym aspect I can see at work here. But again,

900
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: we did point this out already a little bit. But

901
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 3: we have noticed, and it's been documented that their growth,

902
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 3: this nine A growth, has been right alongside other like

903
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 3: I guess what we would call right wing extremist.

904
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: Groups, sure, yeah, yeah, supremacist organizations would be a big one.

905
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: Neo Nazi organizations. And this has led to a couple

906
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: of really strange conspiratorial thoughts, one being there was actually

907
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: some infighting between members of white supreme see groups and

908
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: members of this nine A thing, because there were people saying, look, guys,

909
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,959
Speaker 1: I'm just here because I'm a white supremacist. I don't

910
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: like all this weird hocus pocus stuff. I'm we've lost,

911
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: We've lost our way out of the game. And everyone's like, oh, well,

912
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: that guy doesn't get it. And then someone else said,

913
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like I also fought more on

914
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: the supremacy now side, and like the magic stuff's cool. Like,

915
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, dude, I love metal or whatever.

916
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not knocking metal. I am knocking racist,

917
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: but I'm not knocking metal.

918
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 3: It does make me feel a little bit sad for

919
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 3: the people who joined up because they were all about

920
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 3: that magic and all about the that stuff, and they realized, oh,

921
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 3: this is a separatist group.

922
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: Yeah right. There are other people who said, I thought

923
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: we were just doing rituals.

924
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

925
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm down for our infernal Lord and Master,

926
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: but I feel like our Infernal Lord and Master should

927
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: be an equal opportunity employer.

928
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 3: There you go.

929
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: So, I mean, we're making a little bit of light

930
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: of this, but it's a dangerous thing when we see

931
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: this connection of ideologies and these people are conspiring in secret.

932
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: We don't know. We don't know how much of it

933
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: is just bluff and bluster on the nine A part.

934
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: We don't know how much of it, even to some degree,

935
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: is taken seriously by all the people. Is it an

936
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: elaborate hoax. There's a lot of writing out there, but

937
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: again it's not as if there is a center that

938
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: you can visit. You know, there's not a power structure

939
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: that is readily apparent to a lot of people, and

940
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: perhaps that's they've just kept it internal. We do know

941
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: that at this point the organization is still considered to

942
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 1: be out there, but the views it espouses have have

943
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: mainly caught the attention of law enforcement and governments because

944
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 1: of the actions of its affiliates white supremacist hard right

945
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: wing terror groups terrorist groups. At a two thousand and

946
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 1: three UNESCO conference in Paris concerning the growth of anti

947
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: Semitism in Europe and abroad, they stated, David Mayat, the

948
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: leading hardline Nazi intellectual in Britain since the sixties, who

949
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: maybe what is it Anton Long has converted to Islam.

950
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: This was true at the time. He praised Bin Laden

951
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: and al Qaeda. He called the nine to eleven tax

952
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: and active heroism. He urged for the killing of all

953
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: like all Jewish people, and he also he used another name,

954
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: Abdullah ziz Ibin Mayat, he supported suicide missions. He has

955
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 1: one of the most thorough English language defenses of that.

956
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: He urged young Muslims to take up violent jihad, which

957
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: is not Any actual Muslim will tell you that the

958
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: kind of thing he's calling jihad is not jihad. Observers

959
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: warned that he's a dangerous man. But since two thousen

960
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 1: he claims to have changed. He says, I've rejected Islam.

961
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 1: My extremists passed, and guys, it's all about loving each other. Yeah,

962
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: that's what he says now, but the extremism seems to

963
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: carry on. The question now is whether it's legitimate, whether

964
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: the people who claim to believe it online actually practice

965
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: it in person or some have proposed is the entire

966
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: thing a hoax? Is it a government front to monitor

967
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: right wing groups? Let us know what you think.

968
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 3: That's the most promising for me, or the most silver

969
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 3: lining answer for me. It's a front group of some

970
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 3: sort that's trying to stop some of these other organizations.

971
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: But people still got killed, so they must not be

972
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: doing that great of a job.

973
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you're probably right.

974
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

975
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts.

976
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 3: It's right.

977
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: Let us know what you think. You can reach to

978
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 2: the Hammle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on Facebook x

979
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 2: and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok work Conspiracy Stuff Show.

980
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 3: If you want to call us dial one eight three

981
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: three STDWYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes.

982
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 3: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

983
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 3: we can use your name and message on the air.

984
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 3: If you got more to say than can fit in

985
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 3: that voicemail why not instead send us a good old

986
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 3: fashioned email.

987
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: We are the entities to read every single piece of

988
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

989
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

990
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

991
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,480
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992
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,760
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