WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Police Drones and You

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I

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<v Speaker 2>hope you've been enjoying the holiday season. I know I have,

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<v Speaker 2>or at least I've been trying to. It's difficult because

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<v Speaker 2>I keep getting distracted by this funny feeling like there's

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<v Speaker 2>something watching over me, up in the sky, something buzzing around,

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<v Speaker 2>And at first I thought this might just be Santa's sleigh,

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<v Speaker 2>but then I realized, no, no, no, no no, this

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<v Speaker 2>is actually a drone. And oh boy, am I not

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<v Speaker 2>the only one. Drone fever is just sweeping the nation

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<v Speaker 2>right now with the new Jersey drone panic, somehow making

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<v Speaker 2>headlines based on unconfirmed and very disputable reports. The new

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<v Speaker 2>Jersey drone thing isn't real. This is mass hysteria. Almost

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<v Speaker 2>all of these incidents of UFOs, UAPs or mysterious drones

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<v Speaker 2>are actually just like regular airplanes going to the airport,

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<v Speaker 2>airplanes that you can track online via flight radar. These

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<v Speaker 2>aren't nuclear scanning drones. These aren't secret government military projects.

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<v Speaker 2>These are either like legal, registered hobbyist drones in some cases,

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<v Speaker 2>but really just mostly airplanes. A few weeks ago, there

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<v Speaker 2>was a really cloudy day over the New Jersey coast,

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<v Speaker 2>and that day all of the drone sightings stopped because

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<v Speaker 2>you couldn't see up in the sky. You couldn't see

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<v Speaker 2>the airplanes. But yeah, the New Jersey drone panic isn't real.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason why there's blinking lights flying over LaGuardia is

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<v Speaker 2>that those are airplanes taking off and landing at an airport.

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<v Speaker 2>This whole panic was boosted by unconfirmed social media reports

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<v Speaker 2>and local news sites trying to gain clicks, and somehow

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<v Speaker 2>this just broke through into the national mainstream discourse. But

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<v Speaker 2>fears over invasive drones isn't necessarily unfounded though. The ones

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<v Speaker 2>that you should be worried about aren't UFOs or nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>scanning drones, but are actually police drones, which are becoming

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<v Speaker 2>all the more commonplace. More and more cities this year

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<v Speaker 2>have adopted police drone programs. So for this episode, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to rerun my episode from early in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>four about police drones. Now, in the past year, there's

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<v Speaker 2>also been a great increase in the reporting on police drones,

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<v Speaker 2>including a fantastic Wired investigation titled the Age of the

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<v Speaker 2>Drone Police is Here. They analyzed nearly ten thousand individual

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<v Speaker 2>flight records from July twenty twenty one September of twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty three, containing more than twenty two point three million coordinates.

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<v Speaker 2>The investigation showed that poorer communities, especially working class and

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<v Speaker 2>immigrant communities, were disproportionately surveilled, with police drones in Chula

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<v Speaker 2>Vista flying over neighborhood blocks on the west side more

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<v Speaker 2>than ten times longer than blocks on the suburban east side.

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<v Speaker 2>And considering Trump's second term, fears over widespread police surveillance

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<v Speaker 2>are only more relevant, especially in immigrant communities and even

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<v Speaker 2>in instances where drones like this fly over places like

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<v Speaker 2>abortion clinics, and these fears are not unfounded. In twenty twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>the San Diego Union Tribune discovered that the Cheulavista Police

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<v Speaker 2>Department was sharing its license plate reader data directly with ICE.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it's still unclear how many drones Cheulavista PD currently has,

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<v Speaker 2>but as of twenty twenty two, they had thirty two

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<v Speaker 2>of these high definition camera mounted drones drones which have

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<v Speaker 2>now done over twenty thousand flights since twenty eighteen. All

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<v Speaker 2>of this will get discussed more in depth in the episode,

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<v Speaker 2>but for an update later, I discuss a court case

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<v Speaker 2>to secure the public's right to access drone footage, and

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<v Speaker 2>this case is still ongoing. Last spring, the city tried

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<v Speaker 2>to appeal to the Califor Furnia Supreme Court, who ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>declined to take up the case, basically reaffirming the lower

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<v Speaker 2>court's ruling against the police to withhold drone footage. This

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<v Speaker 2>case is once again back to trial court to finalize

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<v Speaker 2>details of how certain footage should be released. So, without

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<v Speaker 2>further ado, here's my episode from the twenty twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>Consumer Electronics Showcase Police Drones and you welcome to it

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<v Speaker 2>could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. Now, last week I

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<v Speaker 2>spent a few days in Las Vegas for the Consumer

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<v Speaker 2>Electronics Showcase. Most of the time of the convention, I

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<v Speaker 2>was just walking around the show floor looking at various

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<v Speaker 2>new types of surveillance equipment, AI products, and various other

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<v Speaker 2>bullshit that was being peddled to the many, many industry

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<v Speaker 2>attendees of CEES. But I was also able to go

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<v Speaker 2>to a few panels. Now, panels are really interesting because

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<v Speaker 2>you get to hear people who are working inside industries

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<v Speaker 2>talk about stuff that they don't usually really publicly talk

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<v Speaker 2>about very much. And on the first day of the convention,

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<v Speaker 2>I went to a panel about drone technology. Half of

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<v Speaker 2>the panel was about how Walmart is launching new delivery

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<v Speaker 2>drones in Dallas, Texas. The other half was about police drones.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what we're going to be talking about here today,

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<v Speaker 2>how the police are using drones, why they're using drones,

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<v Speaker 2>and how you can probably expect to be seeing a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more drones up in the sky piloted by either

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<v Speaker 2>an AI or a police officer. So let's get started.

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<v Speaker 2>Cheula Vista is the southernmost kind of medium sized city

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<v Speaker 2>in California, with the population of two hundred and seventy

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<v Speaker 2>eight thousand people. Chula Vista has a police force of

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and eighty nine sworn officers as well as

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and twenty civilian employees. On top of their

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<v Speaker 2>nearly three hundred officers, they operate a drone fleet ten

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<v Speaker 2>hours a day, seven days a week, launching high depf

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<v Speaker 2>camera mounted drones from four locations throughout their small city.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to quote from an article from the MIT

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<v Speaker 2>Technology Review, which did a deep dive onto Cheulavista's police

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<v Speaker 2>drones back in February of twenty twenty three quote. Cheulavista

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<v Speaker 2>uses these drones to extend the power of its workforce

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<v Speaker 2>in a number of ways. For example, if only one

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<v Speaker 2>officer is available, when two calls come in, one foreign

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<v Speaker 2>armed suspect and another for shoplifting, an officer will respond

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<v Speaker 2>to the first one. But now cvpd's Public Information Officer,

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<v Speaker 2>Sergeant Anthony Molina, says that dispatchers can send drone to

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<v Speaker 2>surreptitiously trail the suspected shoplifter unquote. And this really gets

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<v Speaker 2>at the heart of how these drones are going to

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<v Speaker 2>get used. They exist to funnel more people into the

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<v Speaker 2>criminal justice system. Instead of having to choose between two calls,

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<v Speaker 2>one of which actually could relate to saving someone's life,

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<v Speaker 2>the other just a petty crime, now the police can

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<v Speaker 2>easily follow someone doing a petty crime while responding to

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<v Speaker 2>other calls and eventually catch up. It's a way to

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<v Speaker 2>just expand the amount of people that can be arrested

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<v Speaker 2>and thrown into jail. Nowadays, drones are pretty common tools

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<v Speaker 2>for police. Over one thy five hundred departments currently use drones,

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<v Speaker 2>usually for special occasions though, like search and rescue, crime

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<v Speaker 2>scene documentation, protest surveillance and sometimes tracking suspects, But at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment, only about a dozen police departments regularly dispatch

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<v Speaker 2>drones in response to nine to one one calls, the

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<v Speaker 2>first of which was Chew La Vista PD, who launched

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<v Speaker 2>their quote drone as first responder program back in twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Would the goal of having an unmanned aerial system or

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<v Speaker 2>drone be proactively deployed before an officer is on scene.

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<v Speaker 2>Now we'll hear from Chief Roxanna Kennedy of the Cheu

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<v Speaker 2>La Vista Police Department talking on the drone at Technology

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<v Speaker 2>panel at CES.

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<v Speaker 3>We are seven miles from.

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<v Speaker 4>The Mexico border and we are the second largest city

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<v Speaker 4>in San Diego Counties.

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<v Speaker 3>We have about two hundred.

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<v Speaker 4>And ninety officers and we serve a community of about

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<v Speaker 4>three hundred thousand. Because of the close proximity to the door,

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<v Speaker 4>we have a lot of people that have traveled back

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<v Speaker 4>and forth. We have a drone program that I'm awfully

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<v Speaker 4>proud of. We are responding proactively to calls for service

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<v Speaker 4>in our community and so we have drone station from

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<v Speaker 4>four diferent locations throughout our city. We have pilots in

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<v Speaker 4>command that are on the rooftop, and then we have

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<v Speaker 4>a operation center where we have sworn officers that are

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<v Speaker 4>part one of seven pilots that fly the drones. So

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<v Speaker 4>we are responding now to calls for service on average,

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<v Speaker 4>an officer on scene, a drone penant on scene that's

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<v Speaker 4>sharing information with our officers lights, streaming that information on

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<v Speaker 4>our cell phones or in our computers that we're siving

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<v Speaker 4>information about the call.

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<v Speaker 3>Within ninety seconds on a average.

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<v Speaker 4>And so what it's doing for us in sual Vista

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<v Speaker 4>and for our community is we are providing information rapidly,

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<v Speaker 4>real time information to officers so that they can make

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<v Speaker 4>better decisions so that everyone goes home safely. We say

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<v Speaker 4>that community safer, the officers are safer, and the subjects

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<v Speaker 4>that we encounter are safer.

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<v Speaker 3>So we're only proud of what we're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>The way police are able to deploy drones used to

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<v Speaker 2>be a lot more limited. The use of drones is

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<v Speaker 2>regulated by the FFA, the Federal Aviation Administration. In most cases,

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<v Speaker 2>the FFA requires that both hobbyists and police departments only

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<v Speaker 2>fly drones within the operator's own line of sight, but

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<v Speaker 2>starting back in twenty nineteen, agencies and vendors can start

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<v Speaker 2>applying for a beyond visual line of sight or BEV

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<v Speaker 2>loss waiver from the FFA to fly drones remotely, allowing

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<v Speaker 2>for much longer flights in restricted airspace. Chula Vistaped was

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<v Speaker 2>the first department to get a BEV lost waiver. The

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<v Speaker 2>MIT Tech Review estimated last year that roughly two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty five more departments now have one as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Another thing that.

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<v Speaker 4>I always talk about because I think it's critical is

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<v Speaker 4>the concept of why they're using drones, what the benefit

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<v Speaker 4>is to the community with the use of our drones.

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<v Speaker 4>And I truly believe that when my officers can pick

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<v Speaker 4>up their cell phone before they even respond to the

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<v Speaker 4>call and they can look and see the scene.

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<v Speaker 3>What's happening where the individual is.

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<v Speaker 4>If the person's pacing in the middle of the park,

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<v Speaker 4>there are no children around, and there are.

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<v Speaker 3>No body, there's nobody that's within.

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<v Speaker 4>The reach of this individual harming, you might not have

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<v Speaker 4>to rush into that scene so quickly officers can de escalate,

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<v Speaker 4>make better decisions. And I mean, this is just a

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<v Speaker 4>game changer for law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 3>And right now, you.

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<v Speaker 4>Know, we were the first into agency to be involved

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<v Speaker 4>in the Integrated Pilot program with the FAA.

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<v Speaker 3>We're very proud of that that they.

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<v Speaker 4>Trusted us enough for us to be the organization that

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<v Speaker 4>brought forward all these ideas that are now being utilized

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<v Speaker 4>in law enforcements. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I've watched a lot of videos of police talking about

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<v Speaker 2>why they're using drones, of drone training companies talking about

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<v Speaker 2>why police drones are so important. In one video on

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<v Speaker 2>their website, this guy from Skyfire Consulting was talking about

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<v Speaker 2>how police may not have had to kill Tame or

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<v Speaker 2>Rice if they simply had a drone watching beforehand so

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<v Speaker 2>they could see that it was a toy gun, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a ridiculous thing to say, because in the nine

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<v Speaker 2>one one call that jump started this entire police interaction,

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<v Speaker 2>it was expressed that the caller thought the gun was

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<v Speaker 2>probably a toy. And this notion that is simply if

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<v Speaker 2>police have more ability to surveil, they'll be able to

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<v Speaker 2>respond safer and apply less deadly force, I think is

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<v Speaker 2>a pretty suspect premise. Yes, now, the effectiveness of drone

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<v Speaker 2>technology and law enforcement is challenging to verify and quantify.

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<v Speaker 2>The MIT Tech Review cannot find any third party studies

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<v Speaker 2>showing that drones reduce crime, even after interviewing CVPD officers

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<v Speaker 2>as well as drone vendors and researchers quote, nor could

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<v Speaker 2>anyone provide statistics on how many additional arrests or convictions

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<v Speaker 2>came from using drone technology. I was able to find

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<v Speaker 2>some data on cvpd's website talking about how many drone

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<v Speaker 2>initiated interactions resulted in arrests, but quantifying additional arrests seems

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<v Speaker 2>to be a little challenging. Now, if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>Chula Vista PD's own drone responses stats, the vast majority

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<v Speaker 2>of deployments I estimate around seventy percent are for what

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<v Speaker 2>the director of investigations for the privacy rights group the

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<v Speaker 2>Electronic Frontier Foundation refers to as quote crimes of poverty unquote,

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<v Speaker 2>which he believes will be the target of most drone

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<v Speaker 2>policing as opposed to violent crime. Nearly thirty percent of

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<v Speaker 2>Tuela Vista's drone deployments are for what's categorized as disturbances.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost fifteen percent are for psychological evaluations, ten percent are

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<v Speaker 2>for quote, check the area and information, over seven percent

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<v Speaker 2>are for welfare checks, six point five percent is for

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<v Speaker 2>quote unknown problem, and over six percent is for suspicious

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<v Speaker 2>person and another six percent for traffic accidents. Now, some

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<v Speaker 2>drone of deployments do result in patrol units not having

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<v Speaker 2>to be dispatched, but CVPD also says that drones have

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<v Speaker 2>assisted in thousands of arrests. And I'm really not sure

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<v Speaker 2>if having a drone following someone around is the best

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<v Speaker 2>thing for a fifty one to fifty psych evaluation. The

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<v Speaker 2>presence of a police officer doesn't always make the situations

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<v Speaker 2>better either, but I don't see having a drone be

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<v Speaker 2>a really calming presence if you think someone needs mental help.

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<v Speaker 2>Funding a whole fleet of heavy duty surveillance drones and

0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 2>paying dedicated operators costs money. Now it's unclear to me

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 2>how many drones to Levista PD currently has, and on

0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 2>their website they list ten different drone models currently being

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.600
<v Speaker 2>in their fleet, most of them really expensive DGI drones

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>like the DGI Matrix, the DGI Inspire, the DGA Phantom,

0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 2>the dj Maverick, as well as drones from a few

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:45.040
<v Speaker 2>other random companies. But nevertheless, Chief Kennedy is very grateful

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 2>for their local Police Foundation for heading up the funding

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 2>for their DFR drone first Responder program. Let's hear from

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 2>her I don't.

0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 4>Know if anyone here is in law enforcement that many

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 4>agencies use drones and they're all different types of drones

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.560
<v Speaker 4>that are available. I call them reactive drums or ones

0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.120
<v Speaker 4>that are like the tactical drunes that you can use

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.160
<v Speaker 4>to go in on a hostage situation or a missing

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:15.000
<v Speaker 4>person to check in the canyon areas, or you know,

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 4>interior drones.

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 3>We have drones of grow underneath beds, go inside addicts,

0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:20.119
<v Speaker 3>all types.

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 4>Of different drones, and many organizations have drones like that,

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 4>but a da of our drone is very unique and different.

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 4>Because these drones are flying as you can imagine, eighteen

0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.080
<v Speaker 4>thousand missions. It puts a lot of wear and tear

0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 4>on them. But that is one of the biggest challenges

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.400
<v Speaker 4>beyond the fact of funding. So we don't have huge

0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 4>budgets that are allotted for drune programs, and so we've

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.920
<v Speaker 4>had to be very, very creative in our police department,

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 4>and we were very blessed to have a police Foundation

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.080
<v Speaker 4>that has taken on the responsibility to help us really

0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.440
<v Speaker 4>start our drone program and continue going forward. So funding

0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.480
<v Speaker 4>is always going to be a challenge and dependent upon the.

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 3>Drone that you use. There are some drones that.

0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 4>You can't get any as you can't use for assets

0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 4>seizure funding, nor can you get grants for because sometimes

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 4>when it comes to foreign drones there are many challenges

0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 4>as well. So you have to think of that and

0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 4>then we deal with legislation. Right now, that's the new

0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:24.360
<v Speaker 4>challenge that we all have. We kind of bite some valves.

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 4>Like I said, I'm agnostic. I want to use what's

0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.680
<v Speaker 4>the best drone out there and protect the information and

0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 4>we do that with encrypted software programs that are on

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.880
<v Speaker 4>private servers. But you'll see that there's a lot of

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 4>discussion about drones and what drones we should.

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:42.080
<v Speaker 3>Be using right now.

0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 2>We'll get back to the chief's offhanded mention of legal

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.760
<v Speaker 2>battles in a bit here, but Tulavista's budgetary situation may

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 2>not be as dire as the chief makes it out

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 2>to be on top of their current fifty five million

0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 2>dollar operating budget. Back in twenty twenty, a Prenza newspaper

0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.479
<v Speaker 2>revealed that departments in San Diego County had secretly been

0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:08.440
<v Speaker 2>getting hundreds of millions of dollars in high tech police equipment,

0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:13.680
<v Speaker 2>including armored vehicles, facial recognition and phone braking software, license

0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:18.800
<v Speaker 2>plate readers, drones, riagear, among other miscellaneous technology as a

0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 2>part of a DHS grant program due to their close

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:26.480
<v Speaker 2>proximity to the US Mexico border. Chula Vista was one

0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 2>such department, and as of twenty twenty, so four years ago,

0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 2>they had already received over one million dollars in grant

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 2>funds from this DHS program, titled the quote Urban Area

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:44.199
<v Speaker 2>Security Initiative. Considering Chief Kennedy's budgetary concerns, drones actually have

0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.639
<v Speaker 2>a lot of upsides financially, as they are often a

0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.520
<v Speaker 2>lot cheaper than alternative surveillance methods, as well as being

0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.560
<v Speaker 2>relatively easy to deploy remotely, either with a joystick or

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.719
<v Speaker 2>just by clicking a point on a map from a

0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:01.359
<v Speaker 2>comfy office building. Issues around this ease of use was

0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 2>pointed out by Dave Moss, the director of investigations for

0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 2>the privacy rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who was

0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 2>quoted in the MIT article saying, quote, up until the

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 2>last like five to ten years, there was this unspoken

0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.679
<v Speaker 2>check and balance on law enforcement power money. You cannot

0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.920
<v Speaker 2>have a police officer standing on every corner of every street.

0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.639
<v Speaker 2>You can't have a helicopter flying twenty four seven because

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.200
<v Speaker 2>of fuel and insurance is really expensive. But with all

0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.880
<v Speaker 2>these new technologies, we don't have that check and balance anymore.

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.560
<v Speaker 2>That's just going to result in more people being pulled

0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 2>through the criminal justice system unquote.

0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 4>My officers constantly are on the air now is UAS

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 4>one available?

0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:42.359
<v Speaker 3>Is UAS one available?

0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 4>Because it's getting them more information. Think about the fact

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 4>that you can look at your cell phone. I could

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.919
<v Speaker 4>be anywhere in the world and I can.

0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Look at kit lets me know whenever there's.

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.080
<v Speaker 4>A drune fly and I can walk, I can have

0:18:54.880 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 4>visual awareness, aial overlay of what's happening in my community,

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 4>no matter where I am.

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Advancements in technology are leading to further normalization of police surveillance.

0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Ten years ago, would people react to news of a

0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty four hour police drone program the same way they

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 2>would now? What was once the threat of big Brother

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.760
<v Speaker 2>has since become a very sought after, unfetishized nanny state.

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 2>In the v for Veneta graphic novel, anarchist writer Alan

0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Moore imagined a fascist Britain characterized by surveillance cameras around

0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 2>every corner, and now cities around the country are setting

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 2>up their own street mounted cameras linked to private security

0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.399
<v Speaker 2>cameras and ring doorbell cameras to create a network of

0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>life coverage around a whole city which is instantly accessible

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 2>to police. The more widespread consumer adoption of new technologies

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.720
<v Speaker 2>like small camera mounted drones and doorbell cameras, the more

0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.840
<v Speaker 2>acceptable it seems for police to add such technology to

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:05.160
<v Speaker 2>their arsenal of surveillance tools. It almost becomes expected. Two

0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.720
<v Speaker 2>of US TPD has routinely declined to answer why their

0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.200
<v Speaker 2>drones are always recording, both to and from the scene,

0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:14.959
<v Speaker 2>and the department has put in a lot of effort

0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:19.119
<v Speaker 2>into managing the backlash against their expanding drone program.

0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 3>And I'll tell you one thing.

0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.160
<v Speaker 4>Even some of the activists, they were very concerned about

0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.240
<v Speaker 4>drones in the sense of privacy.

0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:27.360
<v Speaker 3>What are you doing with these drones?

0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.280
<v Speaker 4>As you're responding, you're trying to gather data and information

0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 4>to spy on us, right, And we have had to

0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.320
<v Speaker 4>go to a lot of detail and explaining that as

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.840
<v Speaker 4>our drone LIFs off, it is immediately it is recording,

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 4>because that's the information gatherer for us. As that drone responds,

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.480
<v Speaker 4>the camera is already going almost three miles down the

0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.639
<v Speaker 4>road to where the scene is and giving us vital

0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.119
<v Speaker 4>information as the officers are responding. But one of the

0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.160
<v Speaker 4>criticism was going on the way back, is your drone

0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.680
<v Speaker 4>just going in my backyard? What if we're spoking marijuana backyard?

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:03.200
<v Speaker 4>And I said, you're in California, doesn't really matter. But

0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:09.320
<v Speaker 4>way right that, we said, okay, we gave you your concern.

0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 4>And so what we did was we worked with the

0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:17.159
<v Speaker 4>software company that we were with and they created an

0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:22.120
<v Speaker 4>automatic so that as a drone returns, it automatically tilts to.

0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:24.760
<v Speaker 3>The horizon, so we're not recording anything.

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.960
<v Speaker 4>If another call came out, we can immediately we'll go

0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.119
<v Speaker 4>back in it or like map it for us and

0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.159
<v Speaker 4>share that information later on. But the goal is to

0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 4>listen to your community as well.

0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.359
<v Speaker 2>Chief Kennedy's claim here is difficult to back up because

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.680
<v Speaker 2>CVPD have refused to show the public any of the

0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 2>drone footage they routinely collect. But if we take the

0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.800
<v Speaker 2>chief at her word here anyway, she admits that the

0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 2>drone goes back to recording at street level as soon

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.120
<v Speaker 2>as there's another nine one one call, as they record

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.160
<v Speaker 2>everything on the way to a scene and the way

0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.520
<v Speaker 2>she phrases this whole tilt feature is quite misleading because

0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.280
<v Speaker 2>the camera never actually stops recording. She just claims that

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.600
<v Speaker 2>it tilts slightly upwards in between nine one one calls,

0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's still capturing footage up to three miles away

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:18.240
<v Speaker 2>the entire time it's in the air. Police in Cheulavista

0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.680
<v Speaker 2>have flown over eighteen thousand missions with their drowns. That's

0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot of footage. When talking about the privacy concerns

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>had by some residents of Cheulavista, Chief Kennedy really emphasized

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.040
<v Speaker 2>how much her and the department really care about listening

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to community feedback and how data transparency is so important

0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:38.920
<v Speaker 2>to CVPD.

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:45.360
<v Speaker 4>Community engagement is essential, especially in law enforcement, because there

0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:49.440
<v Speaker 4>are so many challenges when it comes to misinformation that's

0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.639
<v Speaker 4>out there, and whenever you're a part of what's deemed

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.080
<v Speaker 4>as a government, everyone thinks that you have some ulterior

0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:56.760
<v Speaker 4>motive when you're involved with.

0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Any type of technology, and so we have worked.

0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:03.840
<v Speaker 4>Really hard to build very strong relationships with every aspect

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.120
<v Speaker 4>of our community. So it was about in twenty fifteen

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.320
<v Speaker 4>when we started talking about the concept and the possibility

0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.080
<v Speaker 4>of drones, and I laughed the chance and said, George Jensen,

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.000
<v Speaker 4>because that's my story that I used to and I

0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:17.600
<v Speaker 4>love it because I made fun of my guys. When

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.760
<v Speaker 4>they said that we want to fly drunes, I said, oh,

0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.240
<v Speaker 4>come on, now, what are we going to be? George

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 4>jetson flying around the cars?

0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.360
<v Speaker 3>And then I saw today they talked about a blind car.

0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 3>So it happens. It happens, all right.

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:32.480
<v Speaker 4>And so with the community, we started having these conversations.

0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:36.359
<v Speaker 4>We created a working group, we started doing community forums.

0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:37.440
<v Speaker 3>We started asking the.

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:39.840
<v Speaker 4>Community about what would you think if we were able

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:42.719
<v Speaker 4>to do something like this. We even went to some

0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:46.880
<v Speaker 4>of the organizations that may not always.

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Be so supportive of these types of groups.

0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 4>We worked with the ASL you and asked for their

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.800
<v Speaker 4>input on our policy. So before we ever flew the drone,

0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 4>we call it the Krawl Walk Run Base.

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 3>We're still own at the.

0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:01.639
<v Speaker 2>Very end of brawl.

0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 4>We're not into lock yet and we've been doing it

0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:08.720
<v Speaker 4>again also for five years. So you have to make

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:12.600
<v Speaker 4>certain that you're transparent, and we provided all types of

0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:15.960
<v Speaker 4>information that are available. If you go to children, all

0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 4>you put in is jos face drones and it'll come

0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:21.720
<v Speaker 4>up with us and you can look at all the

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:23.879
<v Speaker 4>things that we do, all the information that we share,

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 4>the flight maps that we share. I mean, it's just

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:31.080
<v Speaker 4>super important to have those community forums.

0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 3>Every year.

0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 4>We do a community forum twice a year where we

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:35.960
<v Speaker 4>ask for input from our community.

0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Later on in the panel, Chief Kennedy said that CVPD

0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:44.480
<v Speaker 2>is quote unquote extremely transparent about their flight data and

0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote have nothing to hide relating to their use

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 2>of surveillance drones, which is a curious claim considering the

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:58.800
<v Speaker 2>fact that CVPD has historically kept all drone footage hidden

0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:02.040
<v Speaker 2>from the public and has fought in court to do so.

0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Despite the chief's emphasis on the police's commitment to transparency

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:11.600
<v Speaker 2>and the importance of listening to community feedback, even going

0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:15.480
<v Speaker 2>as far as to consult the ACLU when developing their

0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.840
<v Speaker 2>drone program, for years now, the Cheulvista Police Department has

0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 2>denied all FOYA and public records requests for any drone footage.

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:28.800
<v Speaker 2>In response aar turnro Castnares, a Cheulvista resident and owner

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:33.479
<v Speaker 2>of the local bilingual newspaper Loprenza, filed a lawsuit against

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>the city. CVPD argued that all drone footage should be

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 2>categorically exempt from the public records requests on the basis

0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:44.440
<v Speaker 2>that the footage could be used for a future investigation.

0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Just last December, only a few weeks before CEES, the

0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:52.720
<v Speaker 2>California Fourth District Court of Appeals ruled that this blanket

0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:57.480
<v Speaker 2>exemption is invalid and that not all drone first responder

0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:01.119
<v Speaker 2>footage could be classified as part of appending or ongoing

0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:04.600
<v Speaker 2>criminal investigation, pointing to examples such as nine one one

0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:07.840
<v Speaker 2>calls about a roaming mountain lion or a stranded motorist.

0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.440
<v Speaker 2>And police were not happy about this ruling. I'll talk

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:15.159
<v Speaker 2>about their reaction at the end of the episode, but

0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:20.120
<v Speaker 2>controlling the narrative about the drone first Responder program has

0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:24.560
<v Speaker 2>been of the utmost importance to Truellavista Police, as the

0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:28.600
<v Speaker 2>chief herself expressed at the panel, and we're real.

0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Good about telling our story.

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:32.880
<v Speaker 4>If you don't tell your own story in law enforcement,

0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:34.680
<v Speaker 4>other people will tell it for it and it might

0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 4>not be the right story. So we've gotten really good

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:44.280
<v Speaker 4>at sharing on our social media and through YouTube channels

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 4>and everything success stories of what we're doing.

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:51.399
<v Speaker 2>That is quite the claim there. To paraphrase, the Electronic

0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:56.119
<v Speaker 2>Frontier Foundation, without public access to their drone footage. It

0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:59.359
<v Speaker 2>makes it very difficult to assess how much privacy you

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:03.360
<v Speaker 2>have Vista and whether police are even following their own

0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 2>rules about when and whether they record sensitive places like

0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:12.760
<v Speaker 2>people's homes, backyards, or public protests. And that's why this

0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:15.720
<v Speaker 2>recent ruling and the legal precedent it sets is a

0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:19.560
<v Speaker 2>huge win for actual transparency and marks the first step

0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:22.400
<v Speaker 2>towards the public finally getting a look at how these

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:38.840
<v Speaker 2>drones are being used in Scheula Vista, with drone first

0:27:38.840 --> 0:27:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Responder programs is spreading to police departments across the country

0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:45.880
<v Speaker 2>modeled after the one in Cheula Vista. Combined with the

0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:50.399
<v Speaker 2>increasing presence of stationary street level cameras, the ability for

0:27:50.480 --> 0:27:52.879
<v Speaker 2>police to be watching everywhere without the need for on

0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 2>the ground officers creates what the EFF refers to as

0:27:56.720 --> 0:28:00.439
<v Speaker 2>quote a fundamental change in strategy with police respecting to

0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:04.679
<v Speaker 2>a much much larger number of situations with drones, resulting

0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:10.879
<v Speaker 2>in pervasive, if not persistent, surveillance of communities unquote. Speaking

0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:14.720
<v Speaker 2>of persistent surveillance, near the end of the panel, the

0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:17.480
<v Speaker 2>chief announced that two of us tapd is planning to

0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:21.760
<v Speaker 2>expand their ten hour a day drone first responder program

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 2>to a constant, twenty four hour a day drone surveillance program.

0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 2>More than doubling the department's capacity to have eyes in

0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:31.840
<v Speaker 2>the sky would mean a lot more work hours for

0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:34.520
<v Speaker 2>drone operators, as well as a large increase in the

0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:38.600
<v Speaker 2>amount of video files being stored indefinitely, but Chief Kennedy

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 2>claimed that they're looking into offsetting costs by replacing some

0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:46.120
<v Speaker 2>of the drone piloting team with AI assisted piloting and

0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:47.760
<v Speaker 2>autonomous devices.

0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:53.040
<v Speaker 3>You've clearly been a leader with thrones's first responder and technology.

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:56.240
<v Speaker 3>Looking forward, what is the future hole for the department?

0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 1>I asume you're spending a lot of time telling others

0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:03.400
<v Speaker 1>about the program edition using runs, but beyond that, what's.

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 4>It a Well, my hope is that we'll be moving

0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:09.120
<v Speaker 4>towards twenty four hour operations.

0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:12.160
<v Speaker 3>Right now, we're from sunrise to sunset.

0:29:12.320 --> 0:29:14.560
<v Speaker 4>We go till close to ten o'clock at night, which

0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:17.440
<v Speaker 4>goes a little bit beyond that. And then one of

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 4>the challenges, and I know you're only getting like a

0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:23.440
<v Speaker 4>little piece of the information about exactly how we're doing this,

0:29:23.560 --> 0:29:26.479
<v Speaker 4>but from the four different locations that we fly on

0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:29.080
<v Speaker 4>each of the rooftops we have what's called the piloting command,

0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:33.440
<v Speaker 4>and that piloting command is contracted through a company and

0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:37.640
<v Speaker 4>we and they just have visual awareness of the sky

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 4>and they work in coordination with our drone pilot that's

0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:44.880
<v Speaker 4>inside our operations center. But that's a huge expense for

0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:47.520
<v Speaker 4>us to pay lead for each site.

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:49.520
<v Speaker 3>Right now, with the operations that we have.

0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:51.880
<v Speaker 4>We're paying about one hundred thousand dollars per year, So

0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:56.240
<v Speaker 4>that's four hundred thousand dollars for four locations beyond all

0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.840
<v Speaker 4>the other proces associate and so I can get expensive.

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:01.520
<v Speaker 4>My hope is that and we keep hearing about if

0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:04.720
<v Speaker 4>you've seen some of the testing and we've been testing

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:08.480
<v Speaker 4>it as well in our area, or what's called drawn

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:11.000
<v Speaker 4>in the box, or there's some of the systems that

0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:14.720
<v Speaker 4>are out there right now that organizations are using that

0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:17.480
<v Speaker 4>our autonomous and so we're getting there, but we're not

0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:21.000
<v Speaker 4>quite there because it's very different when you're dealing with

0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:25.480
<v Speaker 4>flying over people and you're flying into areas where the

0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:28.080
<v Speaker 4>drone was to drop out of the sky and harm

0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:31.800
<v Speaker 4>people in our community. That could create tremendous challenges. So

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:34.120
<v Speaker 4>we're very as I mentioned.

0:30:33.840 --> 0:30:37.720
<v Speaker 2>The crawl phase, so to explain how these AI autonomous

0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 2>drones would work. It's essentially this box about the size

0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:44.040
<v Speaker 2>of a truck bed that can either be mounted in

0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:47.360
<v Speaker 2>like a police pickup truck or be stored on various

0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:50.440
<v Speaker 2>rooftops around the city, and someone just needs to point

0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:52.840
<v Speaker 2>at a place on a map and the drone will

0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:56.960
<v Speaker 2>fly and pilot itself around obstacles and basically circle around

0:30:56.960 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 2>an area to do surveillance, and you can call it

0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:02.920
<v Speaker 2>back when done. This would require a whole bunch of

0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:06.240
<v Speaker 2>drones to just be launching and being piloted by themselves.

0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 2>You wouldn't have to train random police officers to become

0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:12.000
<v Speaker 2>FAA licensed pilots, and you could just have the whole

0:31:12.000 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 2>thing in the box, like it's called drone in the box.

0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 2>And these are only going to become more common and cheaper.

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Imagine having ten of these throughout a city, launching from

0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 2>like ten different rooftops, being able to fly around by themselves,

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:31.000
<v Speaker 2>constantly going around communities, constantly going to GPS coordinates linked

0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:33.640
<v Speaker 2>to the nine one one calls, creating a whole wealth

0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:37.200
<v Speaker 2>of footage instantly available to police, live streamed from the air.

0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Matt Sloane, the founder of Skyfire Consulting, a company here

0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:44.120
<v Speaker 2>in Atlanta that trains law enforcement agencies on the use

0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 2>of drones and DFR programs, thinks that we'll start seeing

0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.920
<v Speaker 2>autonomous deployment of police drones within the next year or two,

0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 2>as police budgets increase and become allocated for unmanned aerial systems.

0:31:56.840 --> 0:31:59.200
<v Speaker 2>He referred to the state of drone use by police

0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:04.760
<v Speaker 2>as quote rapidly escalating. Chula Vista likes to market itself

0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:09.200
<v Speaker 2>as a pioneer of the smart city movement, which consequently

0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:13.400
<v Speaker 2>makes them able to receive a whole bunch of grant funding. Now,

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:17.080
<v Speaker 2>the idea of the smart city is built around having

0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:21.200
<v Speaker 2>a massive amount of data to automate certain city services.

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:24.120
<v Speaker 2>So for this idea to work, there needs to be

0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:27.320
<v Speaker 2>a way to collect that data, and these drones are

0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:30.600
<v Speaker 2>a major part of that. The website for the City

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 2>of Chula Vista also lists projects like electronic transportation, adaptive

0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:39.360
<v Speaker 2>traffic signals in app for non emergency city services, as

0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:44.320
<v Speaker 2>well as quote crime mapping and police dispatch modernization unquote

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:48.240
<v Speaker 2>as also being smart city initiatives.

0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 4>We have what's called five ninety one one one, and

0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:55.120
<v Speaker 4>that allows my officers to hear incoming nine more one

0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 4>calls before dispatch even.

0:32:57.120 --> 0:32:58.120
<v Speaker 3>Puts it into the system.

0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:01.239
<v Speaker 4>They can hear what's going on there, and that is

0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:06.360
<v Speaker 4>tremendousent and valuable to them. We have so many different

0:33:06.400 --> 0:33:10.520
<v Speaker 4>layers of technology that have really showcase.

0:33:10.040 --> 0:33:12.760
<v Speaker 2>The value Live nine one one is a new piece

0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 2>of software that allows patrol officers to listen to live

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.160
<v Speaker 2>stream to nine one one calls directly and pinpoints the

0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:23.280
<v Speaker 2>location of the caller via GPS. Now, I don't even

0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:25.800
<v Speaker 2>have time to get into the many reasons that this

0:33:25.840 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 2>could be a bad idea, but simply put, police do

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:31.520
<v Speaker 2>not need to respond to every call that goes into

0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:35.200
<v Speaker 2>nine one one, let alone be giving random cops this

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:38.840
<v Speaker 2>ability to self dispatch on their own. It just seems

0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:42.760
<v Speaker 2>like that could have many, many consequences. But anyway, back

0:33:42.800 --> 0:33:45.800
<v Speaker 2>to drones. According to a twenty twenty article in the

0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:50.560
<v Speaker 2>newspaper Loprenza, cities in San Diego County like Chula Vista,

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:54.480
<v Speaker 2>have received equipment such as tethered drones used for stationary surveillance,

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:58.200
<v Speaker 2>poll cameras, license plate readers, and cell phone cracking technology

0:33:58.440 --> 0:34:02.560
<v Speaker 2>used to circumvent passwords from the Urban Area Security Initiative

0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:07.000
<v Speaker 2>DHS grant program. A lot of these technologies have use

0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:11.360
<v Speaker 2>in the Smart City Idyllic plan for data collection to

0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:15.400
<v Speaker 2>automate city services. After the drone panel was over and

0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:18.600
<v Speaker 2>I was walking around the show floor at CEES, I

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:22.000
<v Speaker 2>couldn't help but notice all of the smart cameras and

0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:26.840
<v Speaker 2>AI image recognition systems being advertised for law enforcement applications.

0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Software that can almost instantaneously scan through a wealth of

0:34:31.719 --> 0:34:35.960
<v Speaker 2>footage and track people's movements, run facial recognition, and identify

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:40.360
<v Speaker 2>every article of clothing. Versions of this type of software

0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:43.440
<v Speaker 2>are already in use by many police departments, and they

0:34:43.440 --> 0:34:47.320
<v Speaker 2>will only get better, cheaper, and more common. In effect,

0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:50.840
<v Speaker 2>what this does is remove a lot of the detective legwork.

0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:53.919
<v Speaker 2>Instead of having to manually map someone's movements and track

0:34:53.960 --> 0:34:58.359
<v Speaker 2>down what niche etsy shirt someone's wearing, these aisystems can

0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:02.040
<v Speaker 2>now do this all automatically. To quote the MIT Tech

0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Review article on cvpd's DFR drone program quote. As the

0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.520
<v Speaker 2>technology continues to spread, privacy and civil liberty groups are

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:13.440
<v Speaker 2>raising the question of what happens when drones are combined

0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:17.160
<v Speaker 2>with license plate readers, networks of fixed cameras, and new

0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:20.720
<v Speaker 2>real time command centers that digest and sort through video evidence.

0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:26.480
<v Speaker 2>This digital dragnet could dramatically expand surveillance capabilities and lead

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:29.920
<v Speaker 2>to even more police interactions with demographics that have historically

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:34.399
<v Speaker 2>suffered from over policing. Unquote. Pedro Rios, a human rights

0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:37.400
<v Speaker 2>advocate with the American Friends Service Committee and a member

0:35:37.440 --> 0:35:40.840
<v Speaker 2>of Chula Vista's Community Tech Council, was quoted in the

0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:44.960
<v Speaker 2>MIT article saying, quote people in the community have no

0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:48.440
<v Speaker 2>awareness of what images are captured, how the footage is retained,

0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:51.640
<v Speaker 2>and who has access. It's a big red flag for

0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:53.799
<v Speaker 2>a city that says it's at the forefront of the

0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 2>smart city movement.

0:35:56.480 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 3>These dramas they're revolutionizing the world.

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:06.399
<v Speaker 4>I mean people who are not taking drone seriously right now,

0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:09.560
<v Speaker 4>who will be left behind. We have flown eighteen one

0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:12.920
<v Speaker 4>hundred and fifty missions. You can go on our web page.

0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:16.279
<v Speaker 4>You can see the flight data. We're extremely transparent. We

0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:18.080
<v Speaker 4>share all that with our community. We have no need

0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:21.440
<v Speaker 4>to hide. We are in the business of saving wise

0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:24.040
<v Speaker 4>and I believe drones are one of the best estories.

0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:27.200
<v Speaker 2>She told us them if they truly have nothing to

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:31.239
<v Speaker 2>hide and are extremely transparent about the use of their

0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:35.040
<v Speaker 2>camera mounted drones, I wonder why they've spent years in

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:38.480
<v Speaker 2>court fighting to keep every second of drone footage from

0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:42.880
<v Speaker 2>being seen by the public. Luckily, after Chief Kennedy talked

0:36:42.880 --> 0:36:45.839
<v Speaker 2>for like thirty minutes about how much they care about

0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:49.120
<v Speaker 2>community engagement and how transparent they are with their flight data,

0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:52.400
<v Speaker 2>I was able to ask the Chief how their commitment

0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:56.280
<v Speaker 2>to transparency relates to the recent lawsuit she just lost

0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:59.080
<v Speaker 2>over hiding drone footage. And I also threw in a

0:36:59.200 --> 0:37:03.600
<v Speaker 2>question about owns at protests. Let's take a listen. Yeah,

0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:04.600
<v Speaker 2>a question for the chief.

0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 1>So, I know you talked about the importance of like

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:09.360
<v Speaker 1>listening to the community and community engagement, and I'm not

0:37:09.360 --> 0:37:11.319
<v Speaker 1>sure this is the case for your department, but other

0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:14.080
<v Speaker 1>departments who've kind of followed suit for for your example,

0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:17.520
<v Speaker 1>have been using drones to like surveil First Amendment activity stuff.

0:37:18.280 --> 0:37:21.560
<v Speaker 1>And I know you recently lost a court case regarding

0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the availability of drone footage, So I'm curious about the

0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:30.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of what the rationale for that footage is and

0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:32.319
<v Speaker 1>how that plays into this idea of trying to be

0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:35.000
<v Speaker 1>transparent with the community for how these drones are being used.

0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:38.640
<v Speaker 4>That's kind of going to be a little bit difficult

0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:40.800
<v Speaker 4>for me to answer because the court case is still

0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:42.480
<v Speaker 4>moving forward.

0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:47.000
<v Speaker 3>It's an active case. If you read it, we didn't

0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:48.040
<v Speaker 3>lose the case.

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:51.840
<v Speaker 4>It was recommended to go to a lower court to

0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:54.759
<v Speaker 4>go back for some clarification under three categories.

0:37:55.400 --> 0:37:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Now this is either a straight upply or a huge

0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:02.840
<v Speaker 2>cope and a most mischaracterization. But more on that in

0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:04.080
<v Speaker 2>a sec I think.

0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 3>It's really important.

0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:11.120
<v Speaker 4>As I mentioned, there are ethics involved in the ethical

0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:14.080
<v Speaker 4>responsibility that you have as a law enforcement.

0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Agency is super important.

0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:18.880
<v Speaker 4>So how you utilize your drones and how you do

0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:24.680
<v Speaker 4>outreach with your community is fundamentally important, and so we

0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:29.279
<v Speaker 4>don't use our drones for if there was a protest,

0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 4>We would not use our drones if there was if

0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:38.120
<v Speaker 4>it turned into a riot. So if people were out

0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:42.400
<v Speaker 4>there and they have the ability to to speak freely,

0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:46.719
<v Speaker 4>to share their concerns, and if it's in opposition, our

0:38:46.760 --> 0:38:48.680
<v Speaker 4>goal is to make sure that we keep it safe

0:38:48.719 --> 0:38:50.880
<v Speaker 4>for all parties involved on either side.

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:54.479
<v Speaker 3>So my hope is that other people look at it.

0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:58.160
<v Speaker 4>The same way that we do, and hopefully I've been

0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:00.279
<v Speaker 4>able to answer it as much as I leave.

0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 3>I'm dying to give you more than I can't. Okay,

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:07.359
<v Speaker 3>thank you for those questions. Folks were out of time.

0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:10.120
<v Speaker 3>Maybe there could be questions after the session.

0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:12.640
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, there were no more questions after mine. I

0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:17.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of shut down that possibility anyway. Okay. So first

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:20.280
<v Speaker 2>of all, the line between a protest and a riot

0:39:20.560 --> 0:39:23.520
<v Speaker 2>is meaningless. Police can declare a riot for any reason

0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:26.760
<v Speaker 2>they see fit, including people being in a road marching.

0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:30.640
<v Speaker 2>I've seen this happen dozens of times, nearly hundreds of

0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:34.759
<v Speaker 2>times actually, So moving on from that immediately, let's go

0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:37.760
<v Speaker 2>back to the court case. The City of true Livista

0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:40.440
<v Speaker 2>did lose the argument that they were trying to make.

0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:43.080
<v Speaker 2>They did lose the case. The Fourth District Court of

0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Appeals ruled that claiming exemption from the Public Records Act

0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 2>was unlawful and sent in the case back to trial

0:39:50.040 --> 0:39:53.200
<v Speaker 2>court to hammer out the details of how much footage

0:39:53.280 --> 0:39:56.360
<v Speaker 2>is subject to public disclosure and figure out a process

0:39:56.480 --> 0:39:59.120
<v Speaker 2>for standardizing the release of the footage.

0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:00.279
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:03.400
<v Speaker 2>The same day I attended this panel in Las Vegas,

0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:07.360
<v Speaker 2>January ninth, the city of Chula Vista requested an appeal

0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:11.279
<v Speaker 2>to the California Supreme Court to prevent the release of

0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:15.040
<v Speaker 2>their aerial video footage. There is a sixty day waiting

0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 2>period where the High Court will decide whether or not

0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:20.680
<v Speaker 2>to take the case, and if they decline finally, it

0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:22.759
<v Speaker 2>will go back to trial court to decide on the

0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:27.040
<v Speaker 2>process of how selected drone footage shall be made publicly available.

0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:31.480
<v Speaker 2>The police are now currently claiming that making DFR footage

0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:35.360
<v Speaker 2>adhere to the Public Records Act would violate the privacy

0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:40.360
<v Speaker 2>of Chula Vista residents captured in the videos, which perhaps

0:40:40.400 --> 0:40:44.400
<v Speaker 2>demonstrates that the aerial videos should have never been captured

0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:47.040
<v Speaker 2>in the first place. I'm going to read a press

0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:51.560
<v Speaker 2>release from the city's communication manager. Quote the city declined

0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:54.640
<v Speaker 2>to provide the copies because doing so might have violated

0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:58.360
<v Speaker 2>individual privacy rights. The city would have to manually review

0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.880
<v Speaker 2>and redact every video record to protect information considered personal,

0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:06.640
<v Speaker 2>such as the images of faces, license plates, backyards, and more. Unquote,

0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 2>So the city is both trying to argue that having

0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:13.440
<v Speaker 2>to manually review each requested file to determine if the

0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:17.000
<v Speaker 2>video in question is related to appending investigation, as well

0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:21.399
<v Speaker 2>as redacting personal information captured on camera, would be way

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:25.640
<v Speaker 2>too costly and time consuming. City officials claim that reviewing

0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:29.320
<v Speaker 2>and redacting videos from one month to obscure faces, license plates,

0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.799
<v Speaker 2>and backyards would take a full time employee around two

0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:36.200
<v Speaker 2>hundred and thirty days. I'm going to read a little

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:39.080
<v Speaker 2>bit more from the city's recent statement. Quote. While the

0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:42.960
<v Speaker 2>city takes very seriously it's obligation to provide the public

0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:46.799
<v Speaker 2>access to public records, the city is concerned that the

0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Court of Appeal's opinion may compromise significant privacy concerns of

0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:57.719
<v Speaker 2>members of the public in this case or in future requests. Unquote.

0:41:57.840 --> 0:42:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Somehow the city has missed the point that this is

0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:05.840
<v Speaker 2>the very reason the drone footage is being requested to

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:09.719
<v Speaker 2>learn the actual nature of this highly influential drone first

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:13.400
<v Speaker 2>responder program that's being adopted across the country. If the

0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:16.920
<v Speaker 2>existence of this footage is such a massive privacy violation,

0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:21.440
<v Speaker 2>that implies that the recording of said footage itself implicitly

0:42:21.560 --> 0:42:26.320
<v Speaker 2>violates people's privacy, and the harder police fight to hide

0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:30.040
<v Speaker 2>their sweeping collection of aerial footage, all the more suspicious

0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 2>this entire program seems.

0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:32.680
<v Speaker 3>So.

0:42:32.880 --> 0:42:35.320
<v Speaker 2>That is what I have to say about Chula Vista's

0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:39.320
<v Speaker 2>drone first responder program. In about a month and a half,

0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:42.680
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court of California will make their decision on

0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:44.839
<v Speaker 2>whether or not they're going to hear this case. If

0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:48.400
<v Speaker 2>they decline, then the president will be set statewide against

0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:52.280
<v Speaker 2>this exemption of the Public Records Act by hiding drone footage,

0:42:52.640 --> 0:42:56.160
<v Speaker 2>So that will be really cool, And then hopefully within

0:42:56.200 --> 0:42:58.480
<v Speaker 2>the next year, we'll finally be able to see what

0:42:58.560 --> 0:43:01.040
<v Speaker 2>some of this footage actually looks like, how good their

0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:02.840
<v Speaker 2>cameras are, how much they can zoom in, all of

0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:05.240
<v Speaker 2>the details of how much of the city they're capturing,

0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:07.279
<v Speaker 2>all this kind of stuff, how often the drones are

0:43:07.320 --> 0:43:09.799
<v Speaker 2>in the air, all of those types of things that

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 2>it will be easier to highlight once we can actually

0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:15.359
<v Speaker 2>take a look at the footage. And I assume that

0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:19.560
<v Speaker 2>going through and releasing requested files for one month will

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.160
<v Speaker 2>probably end up not taking two one hundred and thirty days.

0:43:22.200 --> 0:43:24.879
<v Speaker 2>But I do know how the police love to love

0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:27.600
<v Speaker 2>to stretch out these public records requests for as long

0:43:27.640 --> 0:43:30.959
<v Speaker 2>as they can. As the request that this lawsuit stems from,

0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:33.719
<v Speaker 2>it's all the way back to April of twenty twenty one,

0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:38.160
<v Speaker 2>so hopefully, hopefully more than three years later, we'll finally

0:43:38.200 --> 0:43:42.920
<v Speaker 2>get a look. Special thanks to Loprenza for starting this

0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:46.120
<v Speaker 2>lawsuit and doing all of the hard work to actually

0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:48.400
<v Speaker 2>force the police to be transparent. And if you want

0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:50.160
<v Speaker 2>to read more, I'd recommend checking out the website to

0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:53.479
<v Speaker 2>Loprenza dot org as well as the MIT tech review piece,

0:43:53.680 --> 0:43:56.960
<v Speaker 2>which provided some really releaseful information to fill in the

0:43:57.000 --> 0:43:59.959
<v Speaker 2>gaps between my own research. So yeah, thank you for listening.

0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Could happen here. It certainly could happen here in terms

0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:06.000
<v Speaker 2>of seeing more of these little fuckers flying around in

0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the air, It could happen here as a production of

0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:13.479
<v Speaker 2>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:16.399
<v Speaker 2>visit our website coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:19.319
<v Speaker 2>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:44:19.400 --> 0:44:22.319
<v Speaker 2>to podcasts. You can find sources for it could happen here,

0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:25.840
<v Speaker 2>updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources.

0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.