1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 2: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. I 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 2: hope you've been enjoying the holiday season. I know I have, 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: or at least I've been trying to. It's difficult because 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: I keep getting distracted by this funny feeling like there's 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: something watching over me, up in the sky, something buzzing around, 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: And at first I thought this might just be Santa's sleigh, 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: but then I realized, no, no, no, no no, this 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: is actually a drone. And oh boy, am I not 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: the only one. Drone fever is just sweeping the nation 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: right now with the new Jersey drone panic, somehow making 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: headlines based on unconfirmed and very disputable reports. The new 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 2: Jersey drone thing isn't real. This is mass hysteria. Almost 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: all of these incidents of UFOs, UAPs or mysterious drones 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: are actually just like regular airplanes going to the airport, 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: airplanes that you can track online via flight radar. These 17 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: aren't nuclear scanning drones. These aren't secret government military projects. 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: These are either like legal, registered hobbyist drones in some cases, 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 2: but really just mostly airplanes. A few weeks ago, there 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 2: was a really cloudy day over the New Jersey coast, 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: and that day all of the drone sightings stopped because 22 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: you couldn't see up in the sky. You couldn't see 23 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: the airplanes. But yeah, the New Jersey drone panic isn't real. 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: The reason why there's blinking lights flying over LaGuardia is 25 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: that those are airplanes taking off and landing at an airport. 26 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: This whole panic was boosted by unconfirmed social media reports 27 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: and local news sites trying to gain clicks, and somehow 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: this just broke through into the national mainstream discourse. But 29 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: fears over invasive drones isn't necessarily unfounded though. The ones 30 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: that you should be worried about aren't UFOs or nuclear 31 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: scanning drones, but are actually police drones, which are becoming 32 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: all the more commonplace. More and more cities this year 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: have adopted police drone programs. So for this episode, I'm 34 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 2: going to rerun my episode from early in twenty twenty 35 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: four about police drones. Now, in the past year, there's 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: also been a great increase in the reporting on police drones, 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: including a fantastic Wired investigation titled the Age of the 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 2: Drone Police is Here. They analyzed nearly ten thousand individual 39 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: flight records from July twenty twenty one September of twenty 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: twenty three, containing more than twenty two point three million coordinates. 41 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: The investigation showed that poorer communities, especially working class and 42 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: immigrant communities, were disproportionately surveilled, with police drones in Chula 43 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 2: Vista flying over neighborhood blocks on the west side more 44 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 2: than ten times longer than blocks on the suburban east side. 45 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: And considering Trump's second term, fears over widespread police surveillance 46 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: are only more relevant, especially in immigrant communities and even 47 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: in instances where drones like this fly over places like 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: abortion clinics, and these fears are not unfounded. In twenty twenty, 49 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: the San Diego Union Tribune discovered that the Cheulavista Police 50 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: Department was sharing its license plate reader data directly with ICE. 51 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: Now it's still unclear how many drones Cheulavista PD currently has, 52 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: but as of twenty twenty two, they had thirty two 53 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: of these high definition camera mounted drones drones which have 54 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: now done over twenty thousand flights since twenty eighteen. All 55 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: of this will get discussed more in depth in the episode, 56 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: but for an update later, I discuss a court case 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: to secure the public's right to access drone footage, and 58 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: this case is still ongoing. Last spring, the city tried 59 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: to appeal to the Califor Furnia Supreme Court, who ultimately 60 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: declined to take up the case, basically reaffirming the lower 61 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: court's ruling against the police to withhold drone footage. This 62 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: case is once again back to trial court to finalize 63 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: details of how certain footage should be released. So, without 64 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: further ado, here's my episode from the twenty twenty four 65 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: Consumer Electronics Showcase Police Drones and you welcome to it 66 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. Now, last week I 67 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: spent a few days in Las Vegas for the Consumer 68 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: Electronics Showcase. Most of the time of the convention, I 69 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: was just walking around the show floor looking at various 70 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: new types of surveillance equipment, AI products, and various other 71 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: bullshit that was being peddled to the many, many industry 72 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: attendees of CEES. But I was also able to go 73 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: to a few panels. Now, panels are really interesting because 74 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: you get to hear people who are working inside industries 75 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: talk about stuff that they don't usually really publicly talk 76 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: about very much. And on the first day of the convention, 77 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 2: I went to a panel about drone technology. Half of 78 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 2: the panel was about how Walmart is launching new delivery 79 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: drones in Dallas, Texas. The other half was about police drones. 80 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: And that's what we're going to be talking about here today, 81 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 2: how the police are using drones, why they're using drones, 82 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: and how you can probably expect to be seeing a 83 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 2: lot more drones up in the sky piloted by either 84 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 2: an AI or a police officer. So let's get started. 85 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 2: Cheula Vista is the southernmost kind of medium sized city 86 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 2: in California, with the population of two hundred and seventy 87 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 2: eight thousand people. Chula Vista has a police force of 88 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty nine sworn officers as well as 89 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty civilian employees. On top of their 90 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: nearly three hundred officers, they operate a drone fleet ten 91 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: hours a day, seven days a week, launching high depf 92 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 2: camera mounted drones from four locations throughout their small city. 93 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: I'm going to quote from an article from the MIT 94 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: Technology Review, which did a deep dive onto Cheulavista's police 95 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: drones back in February of twenty twenty three quote. Cheulavista 96 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: uses these drones to extend the power of its workforce 97 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: in a number of ways. For example, if only one 98 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: officer is available, when two calls come in, one foreign 99 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: armed suspect and another for shoplifting, an officer will respond 100 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: to the first one. But now cvpd's Public Information Officer, 101 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: Sergeant Anthony Molina, says that dispatchers can send drone to 102 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 2: surreptitiously trail the suspected shoplifter unquote. And this really gets 103 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: at the heart of how these drones are going to 104 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 2: get used. They exist to funnel more people into the 105 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: criminal justice system. Instead of having to choose between two calls, 106 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: one of which actually could relate to saving someone's life, 107 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: the other just a petty crime, now the police can 108 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 2: easily follow someone doing a petty crime while responding to 109 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: other calls and eventually catch up. It's a way to 110 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: just expand the amount of people that can be arrested 111 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 2: and thrown into jail. Nowadays, drones are pretty common tools 112 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: for police. Over one thy five hundred departments currently use drones, 113 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: usually for special occasions though, like search and rescue, crime 114 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: scene documentation, protest surveillance and sometimes tracking suspects, But at 115 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: the moment, only about a dozen police departments regularly dispatch 116 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: drones in response to nine to one one calls, the 117 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: first of which was Chew La Vista PD, who launched 118 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: their quote drone as first responder program back in twenty eighteen. 119 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: Would the goal of having an unmanned aerial system or 120 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: drone be proactively deployed before an officer is on scene. 121 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: Now we'll hear from Chief Roxanna Kennedy of the Cheu 122 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: La Vista Police Department talking on the drone at Technology 123 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: panel at CES. 124 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: We are seven miles from. 125 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 4: The Mexico border and we are the second largest city 126 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 4: in San Diego Counties. 127 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: We have about two hundred. 128 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 4: And ninety officers and we serve a community of about 129 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 4: three hundred thousand. Because of the close proximity to the door, 130 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 4: we have a lot of people that have traveled back 131 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 4: and forth. We have a drone program that I'm awfully 132 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 4: proud of. We are responding proactively to calls for service 133 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 4: in our community and so we have drone station from 134 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 4: four diferent locations throughout our city. We have pilots in 135 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 4: command that are on the rooftop, and then we have 136 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 4: a operation center where we have sworn officers that are 137 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 4: part one of seven pilots that fly the drones. So 138 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 4: we are responding now to calls for service on average, 139 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 4: an officer on scene, a drone penant on scene that's 140 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 4: sharing information with our officers lights, streaming that information on 141 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 4: our cell phones or in our computers that we're siving 142 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 4: information about the call. 143 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: Within ninety seconds on a average. 144 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 4: And so what it's doing for us in sual Vista 145 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 4: and for our community is we are providing information rapidly, 146 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 4: real time information to officers so that they can make 147 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 4: better decisions so that everyone goes home safely. We say 148 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 4: that community safer, the officers are safer, and the subjects 149 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 4: that we encounter are safer. 150 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 3: So we're only proud of what we're doing. 151 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: The way police are able to deploy drones used to 152 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: be a lot more limited. The use of drones is 153 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: regulated by the FFA, the Federal Aviation Administration. In most cases, 154 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: the FFA requires that both hobbyists and police departments only 155 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: fly drones within the operator's own line of sight, but 156 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: starting back in twenty nineteen, agencies and vendors can start 157 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: applying for a beyond visual line of sight or BEV 158 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: loss waiver from the FFA to fly drones remotely, allowing 159 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: for much longer flights in restricted airspace. Chula Vistaped was 160 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 2: the first department to get a BEV lost waiver. The 161 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: MIT Tech Review estimated last year that roughly two hundred 162 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: and twenty five more departments now have one as well. 163 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 3: Another thing that. 164 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 4: I always talk about because I think it's critical is 165 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 4: the concept of why they're using drones, what the benefit 166 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 4: is to the community with the use of our drones. 167 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 4: And I truly believe that when my officers can pick 168 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 4: up their cell phone before they even respond to the 169 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 4: call and they can look and see the scene. 170 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 3: What's happening where the individual is. 171 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 4: If the person's pacing in the middle of the park, 172 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 4: there are no children around, and there are. 173 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 3: No body, there's nobody that's within. 174 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 4: The reach of this individual harming, you might not have 175 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 4: to rush into that scene so quickly officers can de escalate, 176 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 4: make better decisions. And I mean, this is just a 177 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 4: game changer for law enforcement. 178 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: And right now, you. 179 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 4: Know, we were the first into agency to be involved 180 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 4: in the Integrated Pilot program with the FAA. 181 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 3: We're very proud of that that they. 182 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 4: Trusted us enough for us to be the organization that 183 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 4: brought forward all these ideas that are now being utilized 184 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 4: in law enforcements. Now. 185 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: I've watched a lot of videos of police talking about 186 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 2: why they're using drones, of drone training companies talking about 187 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: why police drones are so important. In one video on 188 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: their website, this guy from Skyfire Consulting was talking about 189 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 2: how police may not have had to kill Tame or 190 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: Rice if they simply had a drone watching beforehand so 191 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: they could see that it was a toy gun, which 192 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: is a ridiculous thing to say, because in the nine 193 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: one one call that jump started this entire police interaction, 194 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: it was expressed that the caller thought the gun was 195 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: probably a toy. And this notion that is simply if 196 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: police have more ability to surveil, they'll be able to 197 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: respond safer and apply less deadly force, I think is 198 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 2: a pretty suspect premise. Yes, now, the effectiveness of drone 199 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: technology and law enforcement is challenging to verify and quantify. 200 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 2: The MIT Tech Review cannot find any third party studies 201 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 2: showing that drones reduce crime, even after interviewing CVPD officers 202 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: as well as drone vendors and researchers quote, nor could 203 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: anyone provide statistics on how many additional arrests or convictions 204 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: came from using drone technology. I was able to find 205 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 2: some data on cvpd's website talking about how many drone 206 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: initiated interactions resulted in arrests, but quantifying additional arrests seems 207 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: to be a little challenging. Now, if you look at 208 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: Chula Vista PD's own drone responses stats, the vast majority 209 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: of deployments I estimate around seventy percent are for what 210 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: the director of investigations for the privacy rights group the 211 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: Electronic Frontier Foundation refers to as quote crimes of poverty unquote, 212 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: which he believes will be the target of most drone 213 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: policing as opposed to violent crime. Nearly thirty percent of 214 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: Tuela Vista's drone deployments are for what's categorized as disturbances. 215 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 2: Almost fifteen percent are for psychological evaluations, ten percent are 216 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: for quote, check the area and information, over seven percent 217 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: are for welfare checks, six point five percent is for 218 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: quote unknown problem, and over six percent is for suspicious 219 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: person and another six percent for traffic accidents. Now, some 220 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 2: drone of deployments do result in patrol units not having 221 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: to be dispatched, but CVPD also says that drones have 222 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: assisted in thousands of arrests. And I'm really not sure 223 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 2: if having a drone following someone around is the best 224 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: thing for a fifty one to fifty psych evaluation. The 225 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: presence of a police officer doesn't always make the situations 226 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: better either, but I don't see having a drone be 227 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: a really calming presence if you think someone needs mental help. 228 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 2: Funding a whole fleet of heavy duty surveillance drones and 229 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: paying dedicated operators costs money. Now it's unclear to me 230 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: how many drones to Levista PD currently has, and on 231 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: their website they list ten different drone models currently being 232 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: in their fleet, most of them really expensive DGI drones 233 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: like the DGI Matrix, the DGI Inspire, the DGA Phantom, 234 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 2: the dj Maverick, as well as drones from a few 235 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: other random companies. But nevertheless, Chief Kennedy is very grateful 236 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: for their local Police Foundation for heading up the funding 237 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: for their DFR drone first Responder program. Let's hear from 238 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: her I don't. 239 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 4: Know if anyone here is in law enforcement that many 240 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 4: agencies use drones and they're all different types of drones 241 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 4: that are available. I call them reactive drums or ones 242 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 4: that are like the tactical drunes that you can use 243 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 4: to go in on a hostage situation or a missing 244 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 4: person to check in the canyon areas, or you know, 245 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 4: interior drones. 246 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 3: We have drones of grow underneath beds, go inside addicts, 247 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:20,119 Speaker 3: all types. 248 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 4: Of different drones, and many organizations have drones like that, 249 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 4: but a da of our drone is very unique and different. 250 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 4: Because these drones are flying as you can imagine, eighteen 251 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 4: thousand missions. It puts a lot of wear and tear 252 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 4: on them. But that is one of the biggest challenges 253 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 4: beyond the fact of funding. So we don't have huge 254 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 4: budgets that are allotted for drune programs, and so we've 255 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 4: had to be very, very creative in our police department, 256 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 4: and we were very blessed to have a police Foundation 257 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 4: that has taken on the responsibility to help us really 258 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 4: start our drone program and continue going forward. So funding 259 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 4: is always going to be a challenge and dependent upon the. 260 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: Drone that you use. There are some drones that. 261 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 4: You can't get any as you can't use for assets 262 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 4: seizure funding, nor can you get grants for because sometimes 263 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 4: when it comes to foreign drones there are many challenges 264 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 4: as well. So you have to think of that and 265 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 4: then we deal with legislation. Right now, that's the new 266 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 4: challenge that we all have. We kind of bite some valves. 267 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 4: Like I said, I'm agnostic. I want to use what's 268 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 4: the best drone out there and protect the information and 269 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 4: we do that with encrypted software programs that are on 270 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 4: private servers. But you'll see that there's a lot of 271 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 4: discussion about drones and what drones we should. 272 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 3: Be using right now. 273 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: We'll get back to the chief's offhanded mention of legal 274 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: battles in a bit here, but Tulavista's budgetary situation may 275 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: not be as dire as the chief makes it out 276 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: to be on top of their current fifty five million 277 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 2: dollar operating budget. Back in twenty twenty, a Prenza newspaper 278 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 2: revealed that departments in San Diego County had secretly been 279 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 2: getting hundreds of millions of dollars in high tech police equipment, 280 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 2: including armored vehicles, facial recognition and phone braking software, license 281 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 2: plate readers, drones, riagear, among other miscellaneous technology as a 282 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: part of a DHS grant program due to their close 283 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: proximity to the US Mexico border. Chula Vista was one 284 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 2: such department, and as of twenty twenty, so four years ago, 285 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: they had already received over one million dollars in grant 286 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: funds from this DHS program, titled the quote Urban Area 287 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 2: Security Initiative. Considering Chief Kennedy's budgetary concerns, drones actually have 288 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: a lot of upsides financially, as they are often a 289 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: lot cheaper than alternative surveillance methods, as well as being 290 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: relatively easy to deploy remotely, either with a joystick or 291 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 2: just by clicking a point on a map from a 292 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 2: comfy office building. Issues around this ease of use was 293 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: pointed out by Dave Moss, the director of investigations for 294 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: the privacy rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who was 295 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: quoted in the MIT article saying, quote, up until the 296 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: last like five to ten years, there was this unspoken 297 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 2: check and balance on law enforcement power money. You cannot 298 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 2: have a police officer standing on every corner of every street. 299 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: You can't have a helicopter flying twenty four seven because 300 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 2: of fuel and insurance is really expensive. But with all 301 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 2: these new technologies, we don't have that check and balance anymore. 302 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: That's just going to result in more people being pulled 303 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: through the criminal justice system unquote. 304 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 4: My officers constantly are on the air now is UAS 305 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 4: one available? 306 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: Is UAS one available? 307 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 4: Because it's getting them more information. Think about the fact 308 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 4: that you can look at your cell phone. I could 309 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 4: be anywhere in the world and I can. 310 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 3: Look at kit lets me know whenever there's. 311 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 4: A drune fly and I can walk, I can have 312 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: visual awareness, aial overlay of what's happening in my community, 313 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 4: no matter where I am. 314 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 2: Advancements in technology are leading to further normalization of police surveillance. 315 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: Ten years ago, would people react to news of a 316 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: twenty four hour police drone program the same way they 317 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: would now? What was once the threat of big Brother 318 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: has since become a very sought after, unfetishized nanny state. 319 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 2: In the v for Veneta graphic novel, anarchist writer Alan 320 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 2: Moore imagined a fascist Britain characterized by surveillance cameras around 321 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: every corner, and now cities around the country are setting 322 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: up their own street mounted cameras linked to private security 323 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 2: cameras and ring doorbell cameras to create a network of 324 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: life coverage around a whole city which is instantly accessible 325 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 2: to police. The more widespread consumer adoption of new technologies 326 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 2: like small camera mounted drones and doorbell cameras, the more 327 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 2: acceptable it seems for police to add such technology to 328 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 2: their arsenal of surveillance tools. It almost becomes expected. Two 329 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: of US TPD has routinely declined to answer why their 330 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: drones are always recording, both to and from the scene, 331 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,959 Speaker 2: and the department has put in a lot of effort 332 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 2: into managing the backlash against their expanding drone program. 333 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: And I'll tell you one thing. 334 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 4: Even some of the activists, they were very concerned about 335 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 4: drones in the sense of privacy. 336 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 3: What are you doing with these drones? 337 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: As you're responding, you're trying to gather data and information 338 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 4: to spy on us, right, And we have had to 339 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 4: go to a lot of detail and explaining that as 340 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 4: our drone LIFs off, it is immediately it is recording, 341 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 4: because that's the information gatherer for us. As that drone responds, 342 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 4: the camera is already going almost three miles down the 343 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 4: road to where the scene is and giving us vital 344 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 4: information as the officers are responding. But one of the 345 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 4: criticism was going on the way back, is your drone 346 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 4: just going in my backyard? What if we're spoking marijuana backyard? 347 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 4: And I said, you're in California, doesn't really matter. But 348 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 4: way right that, we said, okay, we gave you your concern. 349 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 4: And so what we did was we worked with the 350 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 4: software company that we were with and they created an 351 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 4: automatic so that as a drone returns, it automatically tilts to. 352 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 3: The horizon, so we're not recording anything. 353 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 4: If another call came out, we can immediately we'll go 354 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 4: back in it or like map it for us and 355 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 4: share that information later on. But the goal is to 356 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 4: listen to your community as well. 357 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: Chief Kennedy's claim here is difficult to back up because 358 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: CVPD have refused to show the public any of the 359 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 2: drone footage they routinely collect. But if we take the 360 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 2: chief at her word here anyway, she admits that the 361 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: drone goes back to recording at street level as soon 362 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 2: as there's another nine one one call, as they record 363 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 2: everything on the way to a scene and the way 364 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: she phrases this whole tilt feature is quite misleading because 365 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: the camera never actually stops recording. She just claims that 366 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: it tilts slightly upwards in between nine one one calls, 367 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: but it's still capturing footage up to three miles away 368 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 2: the entire time it's in the air. Police in Cheulavista 369 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 2: have flown over eighteen thousand missions with their drowns. That's 370 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 2: a lot of footage. When talking about the privacy concerns 371 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: had by some residents of Cheulavista, Chief Kennedy really emphasized 372 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 2: how much her and the department really care about listening 373 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: to community feedback and how data transparency is so important 374 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 2: to CVPD. 375 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 4: Community engagement is essential, especially in law enforcement, because there 376 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 4: are so many challenges when it comes to misinformation that's 377 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 4: out there, and whenever you're a part of what's deemed 378 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 4: as a government, everyone thinks that you have some ulterior 379 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 4: motive when you're involved with. 380 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 3: Any type of technology, and so we have worked. 381 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 4: Really hard to build very strong relationships with every aspect 382 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 4: of our community. So it was about in twenty fifteen 383 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 4: when we started talking about the concept and the possibility 384 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 4: of drones, and I laughed the chance and said, George Jensen, 385 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 4: because that's my story that I used to and I 386 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 4: love it because I made fun of my guys. When 387 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 4: they said that we want to fly drunes, I said, oh, 388 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 4: come on, now, what are we going to be? George 389 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 4: jetson flying around the cars? 390 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 3: And then I saw today they talked about a blind car. 391 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 3: So it happens. It happens, all right. 392 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 4: And so with the community, we started having these conversations. 393 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 4: We created a working group, we started doing community forums. 394 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 3: We started asking the. 395 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 4: Community about what would you think if we were able 396 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 4: to do something like this. We even went to some 397 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 4: of the organizations that may not always. 398 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 3: Be so supportive of these types of groups. 399 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 4: We worked with the ASL you and asked for their 400 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 4: input on our policy. So before we ever flew the drone, 401 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 4: we call it the Krawl Walk Run Base. 402 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 3: We're still own at the. 403 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 2: Very end of brawl. 404 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 4: We're not into lock yet and we've been doing it 405 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 4: again also for five years. So you have to make 406 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 4: certain that you're transparent, and we provided all types of 407 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 4: information that are available. If you go to children, all 408 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 4: you put in is jos face drones and it'll come 409 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 4: up with us and you can look at all the 410 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 4: things that we do, all the information that we share, 411 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 4: the flight maps that we share. I mean, it's just 412 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 4: super important to have those community forums. 413 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 3: Every year. 414 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 4: We do a community forum twice a year where we 415 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 4: ask for input from our community. 416 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: Later on in the panel, Chief Kennedy said that CVPD 417 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: is quote unquote extremely transparent about their flight data and 418 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: quote unquote have nothing to hide relating to their use 419 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 2: of surveillance drones, which is a curious claim considering the 420 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: fact that CVPD has historically kept all drone footage hidden 421 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: from the public and has fought in court to do so. 422 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: Despite the chief's emphasis on the police's commitment to transparency 423 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: and the importance of listening to community feedback, even going 424 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: as far as to consult the ACLU when developing their 425 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: drone program, for years now, the Cheulvista Police Department has 426 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: denied all FOYA and public records requests for any drone footage. 427 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: In response aar turnro Castnares, a Cheulvista resident and owner 428 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 2: of the local bilingual newspaper Loprenza, filed a lawsuit against 429 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: the city. CVPD argued that all drone footage should be 430 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: categorically exempt from the public records requests on the basis 431 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: that the footage could be used for a future investigation. 432 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 2: Just last December, only a few weeks before CEES, the 433 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: California Fourth District Court of Appeals ruled that this blanket 434 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: exemption is invalid and that not all drone first responder 435 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 2: footage could be classified as part of appending or ongoing 436 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: criminal investigation, pointing to examples such as nine one one 437 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 2: calls about a roaming mountain lion or a stranded motorist. 438 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 2: And police were not happy about this ruling. I'll talk 439 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 2: about their reaction at the end of the episode, but 440 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 2: controlling the narrative about the drone first Responder program has 441 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 2: been of the utmost importance to Truellavista Police, as the 442 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: chief herself expressed at the panel, and we're real. 443 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 3: Good about telling our story. 444 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 4: If you don't tell your own story in law enforcement, 445 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 4: other people will tell it for it and it might 446 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 4: not be the right story. So we've gotten really good 447 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 4: at sharing on our social media and through YouTube channels 448 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 4: and everything success stories of what we're doing. 449 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: That is quite the claim there. To paraphrase, the Electronic 450 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: Frontier Foundation, without public access to their drone footage. It 451 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: makes it very difficult to assess how much privacy you 452 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 2: have Vista and whether police are even following their own 453 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 2: rules about when and whether they record sensitive places like 454 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: people's homes, backyards, or public protests. And that's why this 455 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: recent ruling and the legal precedent it sets is a 456 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 2: huge win for actual transparency and marks the first step 457 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 2: towards the public finally getting a look at how these 458 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: drones are being used in Scheula Vista, with drone first 459 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 2: Responder programs is spreading to police departments across the country 460 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 2: modeled after the one in Cheula Vista. Combined with the 461 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 2: increasing presence of stationary street level cameras, the ability for 462 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 2: police to be watching everywhere without the need for on 463 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: the ground officers creates what the EFF refers to as 464 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 2: quote a fundamental change in strategy with police respecting to 465 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 2: a much much larger number of situations with drones, resulting 466 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 2: in pervasive, if not persistent, surveillance of communities unquote. Speaking 467 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 2: of persistent surveillance, near the end of the panel, the 468 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 2: chief announced that two of us tapd is planning to 469 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 2: expand their ten hour a day drone first responder program 470 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 2: to a constant, twenty four hour a day drone surveillance program. 471 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: More than doubling the department's capacity to have eyes in 472 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 2: the sky would mean a lot more work hours for 473 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: drone operators, as well as a large increase in the 474 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: amount of video files being stored indefinitely, but Chief Kennedy 475 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 2: claimed that they're looking into offsetting costs by replacing some 476 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: of the drone piloting team with AI assisted piloting and 477 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: autonomous devices. 478 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 3: You've clearly been a leader with thrones's first responder and technology. 479 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 3: Looking forward, what is the future hole for the department? 480 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: I asume you're spending a lot of time telling others 481 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: about the program edition using runs, but beyond that, what's. 482 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 4: It a Well, my hope is that we'll be moving 483 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 4: towards twenty four hour operations. 484 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 3: Right now, we're from sunrise to sunset. 485 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 4: We go till close to ten o'clock at night, which 486 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 4: goes a little bit beyond that. And then one of 487 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 4: the challenges, and I know you're only getting like a 488 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 4: little piece of the information about exactly how we're doing this, 489 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,479 Speaker 4: but from the four different locations that we fly on 490 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 4: each of the rooftops we have what's called the piloting command, 491 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 4: and that piloting command is contracted through a company and 492 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 4: we and they just have visual awareness of the sky 493 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 4: and they work in coordination with our drone pilot that's 494 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 4: inside our operations center. But that's a huge expense for 495 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 4: us to pay lead for each site. 496 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 3: Right now, with the operations that we have. 497 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 4: We're paying about one hundred thousand dollars per year, So 498 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 4: that's four hundred thousand dollars for four locations beyond all 499 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 4: the other proces associate and so I can get expensive. 500 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 4: My hope is that and we keep hearing about if 501 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 4: you've seen some of the testing and we've been testing 502 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 4: it as well in our area, or what's called drawn 503 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 4: in the box, or there's some of the systems that 504 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 4: are out there right now that organizations are using that 505 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 4: our autonomous and so we're getting there, but we're not 506 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 4: quite there because it's very different when you're dealing with 507 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 4: flying over people and you're flying into areas where the 508 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 4: drone was to drop out of the sky and harm 509 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 4: people in our community. That could create tremendous challenges. So 510 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 4: we're very as I mentioned. 511 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 2: The crawl phase, so to explain how these AI autonomous 512 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: drones would work. It's essentially this box about the size 513 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 2: of a truck bed that can either be mounted in 514 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: like a police pickup truck or be stored on various 515 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 2: rooftops around the city, and someone just needs to point 516 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: at a place on a map and the drone will 517 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: fly and pilot itself around obstacles and basically circle around 518 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 2: an area to do surveillance, and you can call it 519 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 2: back when done. This would require a whole bunch of 520 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 2: drones to just be launching and being piloted by themselves. 521 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: You wouldn't have to train random police officers to become 522 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: FAA licensed pilots, and you could just have the whole 523 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 2: thing in the box, like it's called drone in the box. 524 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: And these are only going to become more common and cheaper. 525 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: Imagine having ten of these throughout a city, launching from 526 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: like ten different rooftops, being able to fly around by themselves, 527 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: constantly going around communities, constantly going to GPS coordinates linked 528 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: to the nine one one calls, creating a whole wealth 529 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 2: of footage instantly available to police, live streamed from the air. 530 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: Matt Sloane, the founder of Skyfire Consulting, a company here 531 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 2: in Atlanta that trains law enforcement agencies on the use 532 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: of drones and DFR programs, thinks that we'll start seeing 533 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: autonomous deployment of police drones within the next year or two, 534 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 2: as police budgets increase and become allocated for unmanned aerial systems. 535 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: He referred to the state of drone use by police 536 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 2: as quote rapidly escalating. Chula Vista likes to market itself 537 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 2: as a pioneer of the smart city movement, which consequently 538 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 2: makes them able to receive a whole bunch of grant funding. Now, 539 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: the idea of the smart city is built around having 540 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: a massive amount of data to automate certain city services. 541 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: So for this idea to work, there needs to be 542 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 2: a way to collect that data, and these drones are 543 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 2: a major part of that. The website for the City 544 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: of Chula Vista also lists projects like electronic transportation, adaptive 545 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 2: traffic signals in app for non emergency city services, as 546 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 2: well as quote crime mapping and police dispatch modernization unquote 547 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 2: as also being smart city initiatives. 548 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 4: We have what's called five ninety one one one, and 549 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 4: that allows my officers to hear incoming nine more one 550 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 4: calls before dispatch even. 551 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 3: Puts it into the system. 552 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,239 Speaker 4: They can hear what's going on there, and that is 553 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 4: tremendousent and valuable to them. We have so many different 554 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 4: layers of technology that have really showcase. 555 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: The value Live nine one one is a new piece 556 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 2: of software that allows patrol officers to listen to live 557 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: stream to nine one one calls directly and pinpoints the 558 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: location of the caller via GPS. Now, I don't even 559 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: have time to get into the many reasons that this 560 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 2: could be a bad idea, but simply put, police do 561 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: not need to respond to every call that goes into 562 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 2: nine one one, let alone be giving random cops this 563 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 2: ability to self dispatch on their own. It just seems 564 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 2: like that could have many, many consequences. But anyway, back 565 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 2: to drones. According to a twenty twenty article in the 566 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: newspaper Loprenza, cities in San Diego County like Chula Vista, 567 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 2: have received equipment such as tethered drones used for stationary surveillance, 568 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 2: poll cameras, license plate readers, and cell phone cracking technology 569 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 2: used to circumvent passwords from the Urban Area Security Initiative 570 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 2: DHS grant program. A lot of these technologies have use 571 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 2: in the Smart City Idyllic plan for data collection to 572 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 2: automate city services. After the drone panel was over and 573 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: I was walking around the show floor at CEES, I 574 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: couldn't help but notice all of the smart cameras and 575 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 2: AI image recognition systems being advertised for law enforcement applications. 576 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: Software that can almost instantaneously scan through a wealth of 577 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 2: footage and track people's movements, run facial recognition, and identify 578 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 2: every article of clothing. Versions of this type of software 579 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 2: are already in use by many police departments, and they 580 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 2: will only get better, cheaper, and more common. In effect, 581 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 2: what this does is remove a lot of the detective legwork. 582 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 2: Instead of having to manually map someone's movements and track 583 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 2: down what niche etsy shirt someone's wearing, these aisystems can 584 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: now do this all automatically. To quote the MIT Tech 585 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 2: Review article on cvpd's DFR drone program quote. As the 586 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 2: technology continues to spread, privacy and civil liberty groups are 587 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: raising the question of what happens when drones are combined 588 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 2: with license plate readers, networks of fixed cameras, and new 589 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 2: real time command centers that digest and sort through video evidence. 590 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 2: This digital dragnet could dramatically expand surveillance capabilities and lead 591 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 2: to even more police interactions with demographics that have historically 592 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 2: suffered from over policing. Unquote. Pedro Rios, a human rights 593 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 2: advocate with the American Friends Service Committee and a member 594 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 2: of Chula Vista's Community Tech Council, was quoted in the 595 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 2: MIT article saying, quote people in the community have no 596 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: awareness of what images are captured, how the footage is retained, 597 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 2: and who has access. It's a big red flag for 598 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 2: a city that says it's at the forefront of the 599 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: smart city movement. 600 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 3: These dramas they're revolutionizing the world. 601 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 4: I mean people who are not taking drone seriously right now, 602 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 4: who will be left behind. We have flown eighteen one 603 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 4: hundred and fifty missions. You can go on our web page. 604 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 4: You can see the flight data. We're extremely transparent. We 605 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 4: share all that with our community. We have no need 606 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 4: to hide. We are in the business of saving wise 607 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 4: and I believe drones are one of the best estories. 608 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 2: She told us them if they truly have nothing to 609 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 2: hide and are extremely transparent about the use of their 610 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 2: camera mounted drones, I wonder why they've spent years in 611 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 2: court fighting to keep every second of drone footage from 612 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 2: being seen by the public. Luckily, after Chief Kennedy talked 613 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 2: for like thirty minutes about how much they care about 614 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: community engagement and how transparent they are with their flight data, 615 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 2: I was able to ask the Chief how their commitment 616 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 2: to transparency relates to the recent lawsuit she just lost 617 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 2: over hiding drone footage. And I also threw in a 618 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 2: question about owns at protests. Let's take a listen. Yeah, 619 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 2: a question for the chief. 620 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: So, I know you talked about the importance of like 621 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: listening to the community and community engagement, and I'm not 622 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: sure this is the case for your department, but other 623 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: departments who've kind of followed suit for for your example, 624 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: have been using drones to like surveil First Amendment activity stuff. 625 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: And I know you recently lost a court case regarding 626 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: the availability of drone footage, So I'm curious about the 627 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: kind of what the rationale for that footage is and 628 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: how that plays into this idea of trying to be 629 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: transparent with the community for how these drones are being used. 630 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 4: That's kind of going to be a little bit difficult 631 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 4: for me to answer because the court case is still 632 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 4: moving forward. 633 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 3: It's an active case. If you read it, we didn't 634 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 3: lose the case. 635 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 4: It was recommended to go to a lower court to 636 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 4: go back for some clarification under three categories. 637 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 2: Now this is either a straight upply or a huge 638 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 2: cope and a most mischaracterization. But more on that in 639 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 2: a sec I think. 640 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 3: It's really important. 641 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 4: As I mentioned, there are ethics involved in the ethical 642 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 4: responsibility that you have as a law enforcement. 643 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 3: Agency is super important. 644 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 4: So how you utilize your drones and how you do 645 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 4: outreach with your community is fundamentally important, and so we 646 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 4: don't use our drones for if there was a protest, 647 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 4: We would not use our drones if there was if 648 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 4: it turned into a riot. So if people were out 649 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 4: there and they have the ability to to speak freely, 650 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 4: to share their concerns, and if it's in opposition, our 651 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 4: goal is to make sure that we keep it safe 652 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 4: for all parties involved on either side. 653 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,479 Speaker 3: So my hope is that other people look at it. 654 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 4: The same way that we do, and hopefully I've been 655 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 4: able to answer it as much as I leave. 656 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 3: I'm dying to give you more than I can't. Okay, 657 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 3: thank you for those questions. Folks were out of time. 658 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 3: Maybe there could be questions after the session. 659 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 2: So yeah, there were no more questions after mine. I 660 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 2: kind of shut down that possibility anyway. Okay. So first 661 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 2: of all, the line between a protest and a riot 662 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 2: is meaningless. Police can declare a riot for any reason 663 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 2: they see fit, including people being in a road marching. 664 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 2: I've seen this happen dozens of times, nearly hundreds of 665 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 2: times actually, So moving on from that immediately, let's go 666 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 2: back to the court case. The City of true Livista 667 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 2: did lose the argument that they were trying to make. 668 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 2: They did lose the case. The Fourth District Court of 669 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 2: Appeals ruled that claiming exemption from the Public Records Act 670 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: was unlawful and sent in the case back to trial 671 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 2: court to hammer out the details of how much footage 672 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 2: is subject to public disclosure and figure out a process 673 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 2: for standardizing the release of the footage. 674 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: Now. 675 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 2: The same day I attended this panel in Las Vegas, 676 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 2: January ninth, the city of Chula Vista requested an appeal 677 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 2: to the California Supreme Court to prevent the release of 678 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 2: their aerial video footage. There is a sixty day waiting 679 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 2: period where the High Court will decide whether or not 680 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 2: to take the case, and if they decline finally, it 681 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 2: will go back to trial court to decide on the 682 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 2: process of how selected drone footage shall be made publicly available. 683 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 2: The police are now currently claiming that making DFR footage 684 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 2: adhere to the Public Records Act would violate the privacy 685 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 2: of Chula Vista residents captured in the videos, which perhaps 686 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 2: demonstrates that the aerial videos should have never been captured 687 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 2: in the first place. I'm going to read a press 688 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 2: release from the city's communication manager. Quote the city declined 689 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 2: to provide the copies because doing so might have violated 690 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 2: individual privacy rights. The city would have to manually review 691 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 2: and redact every video record to protect information considered personal, 692 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 2: such as the images of faces, license plates, backyards, and more. Unquote, 693 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 2: So the city is both trying to argue that having 694 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 2: to manually review each requested file to determine if the 695 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 2: video in question is related to appending investigation, as well 696 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 2: as redacting personal information captured on camera, would be way 697 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 2: too costly and time consuming. City officials claim that reviewing 698 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 2: and redacting videos from one month to obscure faces, license plates, 699 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 2: and backyards would take a full time employee around two 700 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty days. I'm going to read a little 701 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 2: bit more from the city's recent statement. Quote. While the 702 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 2: city takes very seriously it's obligation to provide the public 703 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 2: access to public records, the city is concerned that the 704 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 2: Court of Appeal's opinion may compromise significant privacy concerns of 705 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 2: members of the public in this case or in future requests. Unquote. 706 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 2: Somehow the city has missed the point that this is 707 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 2: the very reason the drone footage is being requested to 708 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 2: learn the actual nature of this highly influential drone first 709 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 2: responder program that's being adopted across the country. If the 710 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 2: existence of this footage is such a massive privacy violation, 711 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 2: that implies that the recording of said footage itself implicitly 712 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 2: violates people's privacy, and the harder police fight to hide 713 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 2: their sweeping collection of aerial footage, all the more suspicious 714 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 2: this entire program seems. 715 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 3: So. 716 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 2: That is what I have to say about Chula Vista's 717 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 2: drone first responder program. In about a month and a half, 718 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court of California will make their decision on 719 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,839 Speaker 2: whether or not they're going to hear this case. If 720 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 2: they decline, then the president will be set statewide against 721 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,280 Speaker 2: this exemption of the Public Records Act by hiding drone footage, 722 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,160 Speaker 2: So that will be really cool, And then hopefully within 723 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 2: the next year, we'll finally be able to see what 724 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 2: some of this footage actually looks like, how good their 725 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 2: cameras are, how much they can zoom in, all of 726 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,240 Speaker 2: the details of how much of the city they're capturing, 727 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 2: all this kind of stuff, how often the drones are 728 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 2: in the air, all of those types of things that 729 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 2: it will be easier to highlight once we can actually 730 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 2: take a look at the footage. And I assume that 731 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 2: going through and releasing requested files for one month will 732 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 2: probably end up not taking two one hundred and thirty days. 733 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 2: But I do know how the police love to love 734 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 2: to stretch out these public records requests for as long 735 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,959 Speaker 2: as they can. As the request that this lawsuit stems from, 736 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 2: it's all the way back to April of twenty twenty one, 737 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 2: so hopefully, hopefully more than three years later, we'll finally 738 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 2: get a look. Special thanks to Loprenza for starting this 739 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 2: lawsuit and doing all of the hard work to actually 740 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 2: force the police to be transparent. And if you want 741 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 2: to read more, I'd recommend checking out the website to 742 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,479 Speaker 2: Loprenza dot org as well as the MIT tech review piece, 743 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 2: which provided some really releaseful information to fill in the 744 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,959 Speaker 2: gaps between my own research. So yeah, thank you for listening. 745 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 2: Could happen here. It certainly could happen here in terms 746 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 2: of seeing more of these little fuckers flying around in 747 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 2: the air, It could happen here as a production of 748 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,479 Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 749 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,399 Speaker 2: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com or check us out 750 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 751 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,319 Speaker 2: to podcasts. You can find sources for it could happen here, 752 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,840 Speaker 2: updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. 753 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.