WEBVTT - Yolk with Doak 26: Houston Open Redux 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.119 Today's podcast is brought to you by our friends over 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.080 at b dratty. If you're on the hunt for the 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:15.600 perfect stocking stuffer, we cannot recommend the b Dratty Richard 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:21.800 Boxer enough. Using the same peruvium PMA cotton from their Polos, 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.280 they remove the seam down the back to prevent riding 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:30.319 up nobody likes a natural wedgie, and added details like 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.040 the button fly to make the most comfortable pair of 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.160 boxers we've ever worn. 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:37.560 Not convinced. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.640 They're running forty percent off their site right now using 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:48.360 the code Gift forty through Wednesday, September second, So that's today. 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.879 If you're listening today, I would use that code. It's 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:53.960 forty percent off. 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:54.680 Now. 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.680 If you are not listening today, we have another code 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.400 TFE twenty five t f E twenty five and that'll 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:04.680 get you twenty five percent off. So if you're listening 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.520 to this after Wednesday the second, that code will get 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:12.400 you discount. So with the discount of mind, snag a pair, 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:13.280 try them out. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.080 I love these things. I wear them to sleep a lot. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:16.840 I don't want to. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.520 Talk much more about my boxers but let's get to 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.360 Tom Dok. Today's episode is the latest edition of The 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.959 Yoke with Dok. Tom is back from a month long 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.160 road trip. He went all over the United States. We 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.920 just got set up with remote recording equipment so we 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.679 can do these a little bit more seamlessly and safely. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.720 And Tom, we didn't get the the We didn't get 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.319 the mic dialed in for this episode, so it'll be 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.480 like a normal interview audio, but the next episode will 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:54.320 be that crisp like in person audio. But Tom talks 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.600 on this episode primarily about his experience at the Houston 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.960 opening Memorial Park, which debuted on the PGA tour, his 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.600 uh redesign of Memorial Park in Houston. We talk a 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:12.200 lot about that, and without further ado, here is Tom Dope. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.079 I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.200 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.760 And when I find my ball in a egg Frida 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:24.359 egg and Frida egg Frida egg bride egg Lie, I'm 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:25.680 about ready to run off of the. 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:35.320 Well. 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:40.080 Jaeger Kovich has pestered me about this one for for 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.720 months now, and he even has his wife asked on 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.200 on the life's call for questions. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.840 I didn't give any invitation or anything. 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.960 Okay, she she asked. She wants to hear a travel story. 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:57.120 She wants to know about traveling, leaving the country without 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:02.560 a passport, forgetting your wallet on different occasions. She wants 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.880 to hote these travel stories, these alleged travel stories. 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.799 Okay, well, I should be saving these for a future book, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.560 but I don't really have any inclination to write that 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.160 book right now. I have never left the country without 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.640 a passport. That would be a really bad idea, however, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.359 you know, and in fact, I always keep my passport 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.880 in either my briefcase or now it's a backpack that 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.040 I always travel with. So that's the one thing I 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.760 know that I'm going to have if I forget ship 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.520 when I leave the house. But sure enough, one time 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.280 I was going on a trip where I was going 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.880 to China and then to Spain. This was like two 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.280 thousand and eight, two thousand and seven, when we were 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.520 looking at a project in Spain. So I was going 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:53.160 to China, then to Spain and maybe somewhere else in 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.040 Europe and then home. And I went out the door 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.680 without my wallet or any credit cards or any money 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:04.000 or any any form of payment at all, and you know, 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:05.480 and I was like, you know, it was one of 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.040 those six thirty am flights. So I get to the 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.080 airport at five point forty five in the morning or 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.280 something and realize I don't have that stuff and it's 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.160 too late for my wife to run it to me. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:19.520 I'm like, well, I never need any money or anything 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.920 in China. You know, the client always just picks me 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:26.760 up and like takes me everywhere, and you know, so, 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.400 so I don't really need any of that stuff in China. 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.159 I'll just need it when I get to Spain and 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.480 Brian Schneider is going to meet me in Spain. So 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.719 instead of trying to ship it to China, which I 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.359 figured it was pretty sure it would get lost, I 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.040 just told my wife just send that stuff to Brian 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.240 Schneider and I'll meet him when I get to Madrid. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.880 So I did travel from home to China to Madrid 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.719 without any money or any form of payment at all, 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.440 and it worked. But you know, you would only do 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.719 that once you have the confidence of your of travel 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:05.400 behind you. But mostly too, you know, I'm privileged now. 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:10.080 When I'm traveling somewhere, there's somebody on the other end 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.760 to take care of me and pick me up from 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.960 the airport when I'm in a strange place and doing 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.640 all that kind of stuff. So I really had, you know, 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.920 I've traveled a lot of pretty you know, a lot 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.599 of places where I couldn't get around on my own, 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:31.159 especially for the confidential guide going to the Philippines or 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.880 Sri Lanka and India and those places. If I was 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.279 trying to make those trips on my own without any help, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.880 I'd be I'd never get out the door here because 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.839 it's so hard to make all the arrangements. But the 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.039 great thing about it at this point is like even 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:53.120 those places, you know, there's somebody in golf that will 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.800 help me, you know, and it's sort of you know, 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:02.240 they get to spend three or four days telling stories 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.400 back and forth with me while we go around and 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.120 see places, and I've got the security of knowing that, Okay, 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.839 I can get here and this won't be a disaster 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.680 and it'll work out. And you know, like India was 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.120 a great example of that. So when I when I 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.279 said I wanted to travel there, a couple of different 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.560 people reached out to me with somebody they knew in India. 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.760 But the one, the one who I connected with was 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:32.760 an architect there, a golf course architect there in vidget Nandra, 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:37.480 a jog. He's a he's a great player, and you know, 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.320 that's how people get in the golf architecture business and 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.800 countries that don't have a thriving business. A good player, 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.240 you know, whose opinion is respected. But he's actually taken 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.839 time to learn about construction and he's got a little 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.400 crew of guys that help him build stuff. He doesn't 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.919 get much new work at all. Most of it's consulting 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:02.840 at older golf courses and they're doing you know, they're 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.360 doing it without a hell of a lot of resources, 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:07.280 and they certainly don't spend the kind of money that 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.360 we spend in the States building stuff. But you know, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.040 I said him a really complicated thing. You know, I 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.680 wanted to see like eight or nine golf courses in 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.000 all different parts of India, you know, the most. It 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.120 couldn't have been more complicated. And we managed to do it. 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.120 And you know, he went along for some of the 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.400 stops and then you know, found a driver for me 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:29.360 to take me to some of the other places. When 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.640 he had commitments and couldn't go. And the only the 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.640 only hard part was I went to Sri Lanka for 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.600 four days too, and he had no contacts there at all. 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.200 So that's really the only place I've gone where I 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:46.240 just found a driver like online, and you know, so 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.440 I get to the airport. I was kind of one 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.880 with a friend, David Lee. We get to the airport 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.520 in Colombo and there's no driver waiting for us with 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.960 a sign and I'm like, uh, we don't have a 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.440 backup play in here. And then like forty five you know, 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.400 I'm trying to email somebody to sort it out. Like 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.560 forty five minutes later, these two guys show up and 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.800 they're like, sorry, we're late. And then you know, we 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.840 get in the car and start out and you know, 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:17.880 I don't know much about Sri Lanka, but I've seen 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.160 a map of where we're going, and you know, we're 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:25.200 our first stop is east into the center of the country, 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:29.400 and we start out north and I'm like, oh, what 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.400 are we doing here? And the guys are like, oh, 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.040 the traffic going east is just terrible. We have to go, 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.559 you know. So we went like fully an hour and 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.640 a half, like out of the way to the north 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.600 to avoid the traffic coming from the east, which I 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.920 saw two days later. I'm like, okay, that made sense, 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.240 but it sure was scary at the time, just getting 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.720 in a car with two guys you don't know taking 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.120 you to some place they've never been and hoping that 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:57.400 you get there in one piece. 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.520 Yeah, wait, your time talking about the guy being a 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.040 good player. And that's how I got a golf course 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.000 architecture that sounds a lot like the way America was 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:07.719 early on. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.760 That's the way everything, that's the way it's always been. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.800 I mean, you know, I am I'm one of the 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.439 few guys that didn't get into it that way. That's 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.920 how he Died got into it. He was just the 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.240 best amateur player around. And you know people. You know, 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.160 a friend of his asked him to find an architect 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.079 for the golf course, and he couldn't get Robert tren 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.280 Jones to do it, and he couldn't get Dick Wilson 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.520 to even look at it. And he finally, you know, 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.200 he went back to the guy and said, I struck 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.880 out with those guys, and the clients said, why do 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:37.840 you do it? 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:44.560 Yeah, So your road trip is you were all over 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.720 the place. Anybody that follows you on Instagram knows that 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.840 you you cover some serious ground. The latest place that 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:56.720 you were was Baroreial Park, which was hosting the Houston Open, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.920 which you redesigned the golf course. Every got to see it, 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:05.320 I think, you know, from general public opinion was positive 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.640 about it. It sounded like the players really liked it. But 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.560 Jason Long would love to know what your thoughts were, 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.559 And a number of people asked about this, but what 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:19.480 your thoughts were on how Memorial Park played and you know, 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.880 what you would like to see be done differently for 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.160 years to come, or you know what they did well 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.400 and if you're surprised at anything. Lots of questions, but 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.480 you know, just general Memorial Park thoughts. 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.640 That was a really fun week. You know, when we're 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.480 building a golf course, the one thing that we can't 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:43.000 do is test it. You know, we spend Brian Slonik, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.600 you know, shapes greens for me and shapes other things. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.920 He always talks about you. You're imagining what the ball 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.640 is going to do when out lands. Well, you know, 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.280 if I went back to Memorial Park on my own 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.480 and played golf for a week and watched the public 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.680 play the golf course. I might go a whole week 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.920 sitting by the fifteenth green waiting for somebody to land 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:09.400 a ball right where I don't want to see what 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.120 happens to it and never see it. You know, that's 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.120 we're not that accurate. The best players in the world 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.040 are that accurate. So spending a week kind of inside 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.360 the ropes getting to see where the ball's landing and 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.960 what happens to it is perfect. I mean, I wish 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:29.959 I could do that with all of my golf courses. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.160 You know, I don't I don't care if they're shooting 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.679 sixty four or seventy four. That doesn't really happen, you know, 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.760 I just want to see does this work the way 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.640 I wanted it to work. And there is no better 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.000 way to do that than watch the PGAH or play there. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.959 Even though I understand as well as anybody not everybody's 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.280 like that, but you know, I can visualize how it's 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.679 going to work for myself, you know, to see how 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.880 it works for them, and you know, there's when we 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.400 started that project, I sort of said to some friends, well, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.280 you know, we're going to take on Mission impossible, that 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.120 that cliche about design and a golf course that will 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.680 that can host to be a public course for sixty 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.400 thousand people a year and host the PGA Tour event. 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.839 Those are the two, like furthest the part things that 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.760 you can do. And everybody always says that's what they're 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.559 trying to do, is is will fill both ends of 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.000 the spectrum. But it's it's you know, I kind of 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.679 went into it thinking, well, it's almost impossible to do that. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.079 You know, We're just we're gonna do it by not 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.160 worrying about what the winning score is for the tournament. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.800 But as it turned out, most of the players thought 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.079 it was a pretty hard golf course, and that has 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.040 everything to do with Bermuda grass rough. You know, it 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.160 doesn't have to be really long. I think they had 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.959 the rough mode at like somewhere between an inch and 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.280 a half and two inches. They let it grow all summer, 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.640 and I'd heard, you know, in the build up to 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.600 the event, like six weeks before the event, the feedback was, oh, 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.600 the rough is brutal and they're having a hard time 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.920 finding balls, And I was like, cut it, you know, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.000 you don't need guys losing balls the tour event. That'll 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:11.760 just be a freaking disaster, just. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.400 Quick way to get on their side. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.120 It's no kidding, but you know an inch and a 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.520 half or two inches, you're not going to lose the ball, 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.240 but it sits down and you can't spin it, and 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.079 that's all you have. That's the only penalty those guys need. 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.520 It's super unpredictable too. You don't know when it's gonna 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:35.760 nose dive, you don't know when it's gonna fly. 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:37.240 It comes out. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.480 Berma rough is the just the most difficult rough to 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.480 play out of it and it is short. It doesn't 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.920 look like a lot, but you never have any clue 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.520 how the ball. You're almost guessing how it's going to 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:49.520 come out right. 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.079 I actually, I mean those guys make it look pretty easy. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.720 And I went I went out one night during the tournament. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.360 You know, they were playing early in the day on 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.600 the weekend to like avoid compete with football and TV time, 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.079 so late in the afternoon on Saturday, I went out 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.920 and hit some shots and I just threw three or 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.120 four balls in the rough and tried to hit the shots, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:11.920 and I was just hitting them all over the place, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.200 like you know, it wouldn't come out straight at all. 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.199 They have shanked a couple of them, and you know, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:23.080 I had no appreciation for just how squirrely the ball 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.840 does come out of that kind of rough from watching 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:28.840 those guys. I had to hit a couple of shots 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.200 to realize how hard it is. But you know, I 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.960 didn't grow up in Bermuda grass, so I don't really 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.760 have that experience. That's one of the first things when, 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.080 you know, when I got together with Brooks Kopka to 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.120 talk about the golf course, that was one of the 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.760 first things that he said, actually that you know, the 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:50.680 hardest shots on a Bermuda grass golf course or shots 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:55.160 out of the rough from not a perfect flat stance. 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.160 He's like, you just don't know where it's going to go. 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.240 You know, you know you going to have trouble stop 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:06.720 in it. So you start you start thinking about, you know, 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.000 where do I want to miss around the green? And 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.360 you know, where is there a backstop that I can 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.880 aim at so this won't get away from you completely? 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.680 And sure enough, you know, I had dinner one night 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.360 during the tournament with a couple of young players, including 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:26.080 Victor Oland, who's a great young golfer, and he said 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.240 the same thing. He said, you know, when I walk 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.040 up to the ball and it's two yards in the 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:36.960 rough instead of in the fairway, I just totally think differently. 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.040 And you know, now I've got to think about where 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.920 can I get around the green. I'm not thinking about 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:44.200 any close to the hole at all. 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:50.080 Yeah, that makes sense. So what anything else stand out 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.480 to you? I think everybody loved, you know, that closing stretch, 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.120 the short part four. That was a fun hole to 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.760 watch where we saw some players playing ping pong. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.240 I needed. I didn't actually witness anybody play ping pong 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.880 on that hole. You know. Thursday morning, I woke up 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:10.280 and there was like a hole in one on the 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.760 second hole at the front pin blazement, like the first 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.480 hour of the tournament, and you know, they were afraid 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.120 there were going to be a half a dozen of them, 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.720 but that didn't happen. And then like while they were 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.560 worried about that, twenty minutes later, somebody made ten at 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.280 thirteen going back and forth across the green and I 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.960 was like, ooh, you don't see you don't see either 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:36.120 one or ten on tour that often. Yeah, I mean 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:42.680 the finishing stretch held up really well. You know, we 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:51.760 thought of it as well. I mean, one of the 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.160 reasons the scoring wasn't lower is they took two holes 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.440 that are normally part five for the tournament and turn 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.360 them into part fours. Yeah, the first hole, which we 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.000 thought they would do it that way, but also the 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.840 fourteenth hole, which we thought they would still call a 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.720 part five, you know, And if they called fourteen a 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.480 part five, then I guarantee you that, you know, with 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.760 thirteen being a short four and fifteen being a short 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.280 part three and sixteen being a reachable par five, that 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.359 you know, the guy in the club house wouldn't stand 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.640 a chance against the guys still out of the golf course. 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.879 But just change in par on fourteen from five to 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.200 four kind of balances that out more and also takes 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.479 four shots off the winning score, you know, when you're 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.160 thinking of it in terms of under par. I mean, 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.000 you know, Dustin Johnson was twenty under part of the Masters, 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:52.840 Carlos Artiz was thirteen under winning at Memorial Park. But 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.159 they shot almost exactly the same score. It's just to 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.320 call par different. You could easily do the same thing 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.359 for Augusta and call two of those parts five is 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.439 part fours, because they're you know, most of them are 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:04.560 going for the green most of the time. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.639 Yeah, you could easily say that two and thirteen are 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.080 part fours with the way these guys hit it. I mean, 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.600 if they hit good drives on either of those holes, 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.720 most guys have irons in their hands. 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:23.200 Yeah, yeah, you know they're I mean, those greens of 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.560 Augusta are a little tougher, you know, calling those part 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:30.359 those would be really hard Part four horse, but but 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.800 they are, you know they you know, the pros have 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.840 an expectation on pretty much every part five. I mean 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.960 the one long hold of Memorial Park number eight. You know, 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.240 we one of the things I changed in the routing 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.240 was the the ninth hole. The original ninth holeup Memorial 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.960 Park was like kind of a layoup par four to 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.360 the end of the fairway and then a shot across 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.760 that little canal to the green. And I just hated 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.440 the key shot. And you know, it was possible that 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.560 somebody would try to go for the green, but we 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.399 couldn't clear the trees in the creek, so they'd be 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.359 going for a kind of blind and dangerous to agree 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.200 with a lot of people around it. So that was out. 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.880 So you know, I turned that hole into a part three, 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.400 and then lengthened the previous hall from a really short 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.920 par five to a really long one. It's six ten 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.320 from the back or something like that. And even so, 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:26.520 you know, if guys hit it in the fairway, they're 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.639 ripping driver off the deck or three wood to get 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.239 it up there close to the green, and a lot 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:32.960 of them are getting close to the green or on 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.320 the green. It's kind of insane to watch. 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.640 Yeah, yeah, I mean it's you build it longer, they're 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.879 just going to hit it further. That's there farther. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:42.280 You know. 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.879 That's like the kind of addage of the tour at 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:52.800 this point. With with regards to Kopka, Allen Mazroll wanted 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.960 to ask if there were any interesting differences between his 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.880 thoughts in twenty nine team and Nicholas Is at Sabonic 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.680 when you guys were designing that golf course together. He's 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.720 essentially looking for comparing players perspectives from different errors. 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.280 You know, Well, the relationship with Jack was entirely different. 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.960 I mean, you know, he had done so many golf 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.520 courses and you know, you know, we're sort of trying 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:24.840 to be equals, even though it's hard to be at 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.520 the same cable with Jack Nicholas would be considered an equal. 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.639 But but you know, Jack didn't spend a lot of 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.800 time telling me how he thought about design. He assumed. 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:37.800 I knew most of that from having seen a lot 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.640 of his golf courses. You know, the one the one 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:46.240 thing that I remember the most that Jack talked about 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.040 from a playing perspective. You know, it was funny because 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.199 it didn't happen until like the opening of the tournament. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.280 When we were playing on opening day, he hit a 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:01.400 shot on well, he looked at hitting a shot going 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.480 for the green on the thirteenth hold with his second shot, 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.760 and then he laid up instead to the left and 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.320 hit a little pitch in and he said, as we 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.359 were walking up, he said, you know, that was about 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.080 an eighty percent shot. And I said, what do you 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.760 mean And he said, he said, well, you know, I 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.960 figured if I tried, I could maybe get to the 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.320 green about eighty percent of the time. And I said, 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.960 when you were playing on tour, what percentage did you 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:31.879 did it have to be for you to go for it? 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:33.680 And he looked at me like I had rocks in 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:37.200 my head and said one hundred percent. You know, he 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.439 he was like, you know, I'm not going to hit 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.840 the shot one hundred percent of the time. But if 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.040 I'm not one hundred percent sure I can hit it, 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.040 if I hit a good shot, I'm not. I was 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.560 never trying. And that's certainly a different approach to what 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:54.760 these guys do today. It's just like we were talking 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.520 about on the longer part five. You know, they're just 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.399 if they can't make it, they're happy getting up there 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.800 as close as they can. They're not thinking about, you know, 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:06.879 what's the most strategic place to lay up to. They 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.680