Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies these episodes are based on.
Speaker 1: These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done.
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up an sv podcast. We're coming to
Speaker 2: you here. My name is Lisa, I'm.
Speaker 1: Kara, and we are in the same state, but we're
Speaker 1: in separate cities right now.
Speaker 4: This is our podcast about Law and Order SVU.
Speaker 1: We talk about true crime that the episodes are based on,
Speaker 1: and then we talked to an interesting talented actor from
Speaker 1: the episode and today's no different. I'm very excited about
Speaker 1: today's guest, but before that we got to chat it up.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: But the episode is gonna be the first one we've
Speaker 2: ever recorded in studio together. Yeah, but this intro won't
Speaker 2: be I wonder how it will all sound if they
Speaker 2: could tell the difference.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Let us know if you.
Speaker 4: Know, if you can recognize the difference.
Speaker 1: It's because one right now we're at our I'm in
Speaker 1: my garage and leasas in a hotel, and then in
Speaker 1: a moment we're gonna be in a high class, state
Speaker 1: of the art studio, so we might sound a little
Speaker 1: bit different.
Speaker 4: My garage is great, but it's really not been.
Speaker 1: It's it's not a box within a box the way
Speaker 1: that the studio is.
Speaker 2: But this Maria has a fridge that was so loud.
Speaker 2: I unplugged it. I hope that's okay. You could just
Speaker 2: unplug a fridge right for a little while. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: stuff will start to melt. But I don't what's in there.
Speaker 2: There's like there's meat.
Speaker 1: In there now.
Speaker 2: No, No, there's not loose meat from the previous guest.
Speaker 2: Oh so last week I talked about my lift situation.
Speaker 2: You know, I had the driver that was like Holocaust
Speaker 2: gays in your I mean, yeah, you're you're a Jew.
Speaker 2: You should hate gay people. I don't want my brother
Speaker 2: to be trans YadA, YadA. I was like, I got
Speaker 2: to get out of this car. Yesterday, I'm on one
Speaker 2: of my flights. I get charged eighty dollars for violence
Speaker 2: and damage to the car.
Speaker 4: Wait, what the fuck this bitch? So I am livid.
Speaker 2: I'm oh my god, and I am messaging and I
Speaker 2: am messaging with Lyft and every time they're like, we
Speaker 2: looked at the evidence and we stand by the charge.
Speaker 1: You're not. We're not taking it off.
Speaker 2: I go, but I know I didn't do anything, So
Speaker 2: can you at least show me the evidence? Like what
Speaker 2: is she saying I did? And I'm like, I took
Speaker 2: a video of it. I talked about on the pod.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you, she is lying. I did nothing to
Speaker 2: that car but get out after I asked to get
Speaker 2: out at a red light? Like what could she have
Speaker 2: possibly said? You know, remember that one guy spilled coffee
Speaker 2: in his car. I ended up in a car wash
Speaker 2: with him. Yeah, yeah, a lot, a couple locations and errands.
Speaker 2: Like I kept being like, I've been a customer for years.
Speaker 2: I've never had an issue.
Speaker 1: Like what are responsibility for my damage to the vehicles
Speaker 1: in the past, and this is not what happened. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So it was like they just wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I couldn't talk to a person, they wouldn't send me
Speaker 2: the evidence.
Speaker 1: I'm so mad for you right now. I'm so furious.
Speaker 1: I was about to delead it.
Speaker 2: I DM I DMed them and they apologized and took
Speaker 2: it off. I think it's because I have a blue
Speaker 2: check mark, but like if I didn't, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you have.
Speaker 1: A big following, like, honestly, that's fucked up, though, like
Speaker 1: going around charging people for throwing up, charging people for
Speaker 1: for this and that, Like she's oh no, I said,
Speaker 1: I have a podcast with many listeners, and I will
Speaker 1: be updating the listeners on what happened that woman?
Speaker 4: What a psycho?
Speaker 2: I go, this woman's unwell, I go, are you telling
Speaker 2: me you're standing behind a homophobic maniac? Like it's like
Speaker 2: a weird choice as a company to just blindly believe
Speaker 2: this driver. When I did report right away, I gave
Speaker 2: her a one star review, it wasn't like it's clearly retaliation.
Speaker 4: But also I want to know what the proof is?
Speaker 4: Is this an old photo?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: Did someone did something else happen that day?
Speaker 1: Like how did they like?
Speaker 4: Was her car? Was her car nice when you got it in?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: Or it was a Tesla? What did she say? You
Speaker 1: did that fucking test? They won't tell me and they
Speaker 1: won't email me.
Speaker 2: And now that I got the eighty dollars back, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like, I guess that's it. Because I was
Speaker 2: about to delete the full app.
Speaker 1: I was about to be like.
Speaker 2: I don't need this in my life at all. But
Speaker 2: you know, the Delta points. We gotta do it double
Speaker 2: points for airport. But I was like, I was ready
Speaker 2: to delete it, and then it said if I deleted
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to get any credits or communication again.
Speaker 2: So I was like, just be patient. And then because
Speaker 2: I DMed and explained everything again, I go, this is
Speaker 2: my six or seventh time explaining everything.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I've been in the chat. I've been in
Speaker 4: multiple things.
Speaker 2: I go, I can't believe after everything that you guys
Speaker 2: took in, you decided to charge me eighty dollars.
Speaker 4: Like that's crazy. Oh my god, I go.
Speaker 2: I felt so uncomfortable that I ended up walking home.
Speaker 2: She made me so upset. I'm like, what what do you?
Speaker 2: But I want to know what proof she had? Like
Speaker 2: I am so curious. I m DM still and be like, listen,
Speaker 2: I'm glad I got the refund, but I want to
Speaker 2: know what damning evidence she had that you guys were
Speaker 2: right to stand behind her.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Like these there need to be like
Speaker 1: fucking back wellness checks for these fucking drivers sometimes, I think.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, we hear about people being assaulted, kidnapped,
Speaker 2: and these apps don't do anything.
Speaker 4: So like I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I would think they would be like so gung ho,
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't think i'd be charged. Like I didn't
Speaker 2: even ask for a refund. I paid for my ride. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just like this lay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't even ask for a refund and you
Speaker 1: got out halfway through.
Speaker 4: Do you have to give another ride?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: I walked home forty minutes. I didn't want to get
Speaker 2: in another car. I was like really annoyed. I was
Speaker 2: like upset. I was like fuming.
Speaker 1: You know when you're like fuming.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I was already on Santa Monica, like on the street.
Speaker 2: So I was like, whatever, it's a straight shot. I'll
Speaker 2: just walk forty minutes.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 2: I'll look at the gaze that's fine. Wow, I'll look
Speaker 2: at like cuties walking around. So whatever. I'm glad I
Speaker 2: got the money back. But I was shocked. I couldn't
Speaker 2: believe it. I mean, you can imagine the rage I had.
Speaker 4: I can.
Speaker 1: I can very well well imagine it. That's wild. Fuck yeah,
Speaker 1: you know me. But I'm actually in a good mood.
Speaker 1: If any of you are wondering.
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, I just did her Miami like the start yesterday,
Speaker 2: New reputation body suit huge.
Speaker 4: Huge, huge day. Okay, new bodysuit.
Speaker 1: Michelle Visage would not be a fan of Taylor's eras
Speaker 1: too many bodysuits, No, but I think she.
Speaker 2: Would like this one because the snake like wraps around
Speaker 2: all the way down to the boot and it's like
Speaker 2: gold it.
Speaker 4: It is cool, It is.
Speaker 1: Cool, exciting. Yes, someone I went to high school with
Speaker 1: just posted that I think they were at it. But damn,
Speaker 1: Taylor season is back on everybody. It's back brat, Summer
Speaker 1: is over, Taylor Fall is back happening eras fall.
Speaker 2: But my Instagram just keeps showing me Sabrina Carpenter's tour
Speaker 2: and I like her, but I'm like, please stop. I
Speaker 2: don't need this anymore. I don't need her little towel
Speaker 2: like I can't anymore. Wait, what's her little towel? She
Speaker 2: has like a sparkly towel, you know, and then she
Speaker 2: like opens it up and there's an outfit like she
Speaker 2: has like a cute like fake towel, kitch.
Speaker 1: A little reveal cute, cute, he's getting out of the
Speaker 1: shower cute. I went to Bridger's birthday party. Another exactly
Speaker 1: right person. I said no gifts the podcast. I went
Speaker 1: to his birthday party last night. People were telling hilarious
Speaker 1: rumors about celebrities that I was dying. Like. One guy
Speaker 1: was like I heard, like I heard from this friend
Speaker 1: of a friend that this girl was dating Robert de
Speaker 1: Niro and this was twenty five years ago, like because
Speaker 1: when I found out the eight when I found out
Speaker 1: the story, I was like, wait what And then they
Speaker 1: were like, okay, turns out he was fifty five and
Speaker 1: he's like eighty one now, so this was twenty five
Speaker 1: years ago at least, and he was dating some model.
Speaker 1: They go to some hotel, she goes to take your shower.
Speaker 1: When she comes out of the room, Robert de Niro
Speaker 1: is giving himself a blowjob, is what is said. I
Speaker 1: was laughing, So.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's limber enough. I exactly.
Speaker 1: And then my friend Mano is there and he goes, no,
Speaker 1: when you're old, you lose all your collagen, so you're
Speaker 1: more flexible, Like well, there's no fucking way, because I
Speaker 1: didn't know the time the timeline, so I was like,
Speaker 1: he's like eighty what are you talking about? And then
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, it's from when he was fifty five.
Speaker 1: I'm like, now I believe it even less though, because
Speaker 1: we're talking about fifty five Collagen. I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: I don't buy he can suck his own d I can't.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't. I know someone that hasn't done that. And
Speaker 2: there's really a weirder body shape. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were like Robert de Niro spine can't go
Speaker 1: into a circle. Like it was just a funny conversation.
Speaker 1: What were the other ones? What were the other rumors?
Speaker 1: Everybody was truly like cracking up, trying to like think
Speaker 1: of the most ridiculous like rumor they've heard, Like another
Speaker 1: one was this.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think historically, I would say the the
Speaker 2: wildest celebri rumor that is persevered for decades is Richard
Speaker 2: gear putting gerbils up.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, number nothing touches that, And it's like so
Speaker 1: pervasive that it's like there's got to be like I
Speaker 1: don't know if he does it all the time.
Speaker 4: I think he definitely did it one time. It's like
Speaker 4: just so in the.
Speaker 2: Culture, I just don't think it's a thing that happens.
Speaker 2: But maybe I'm being naive. It just seems dangerous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you put them in like a bag, but
Speaker 1: they can gnaw through a bag. They can nibble through it.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But also what would stop them from dying of lack
Speaker 2: of I don't know. I just but now I know
Speaker 2: why it's not a hamster. Why gerbils have tails? You
Speaker 2: could pull them out?
Speaker 1: Oh wow, didn't even think about that. Yeah, Like gerbils
Speaker 1: are nature's tampon. That's true, they have a little string.
Speaker 2: Did you see the video of the two girls that
Speaker 2: get swallowed by a big blue whale and then he
Speaker 2: spit them out? What they were like in a canoe?
Speaker 2: I mean maybe it's ai, I don't know, but.
Speaker 1: Pinocchio, that is nuts. Okay, wait, I'll tell you the
Speaker 1: other one. Somebody said, And then if you guys think
Speaker 1: it's inappropriate, we can cut it out. But because I
Speaker 1: don't know if you should just like perpetuate rumors that
Speaker 1: you hear at parties. Robert de Niro's never gonna hear it,
Speaker 1: so I don't care, but not that this person will.
Speaker 1: But okay, so somebody, this girl, this guy was saying, like, oh,
Speaker 1: this girl that he knew, like met a guy on
Speaker 1: an airplane when she was headed to a wedding, they
Speaker 1: kind of kicked hit it off. They met up in
Speaker 1: the city that they were both in, and they hooked up,
Speaker 1: and I guess at one point like her dirty laundry
Speaker 1: was on the bed and they kind of like hooked
Speaker 1: up on top of their dirty laundry or something like whatever.
Speaker 1: Then like later they both go back to their lives,
Speaker 1: and like she sends him a hair of like dirty underwras,
Speaker 1: like a cute like nod to their night together, and
Speaker 1: he calls her and is like, how could you do this?
Speaker 1: Like I'm married, Like I can't believe you you would
Speaker 1: do this and like send me this underwear or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then it turns out his wife is Malala.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, And.
Speaker 1: I go, you're cheating on Malala.
Speaker 4: Hasn't she been through enough?
Speaker 1: And the guy goes, well, apparently they're open, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: Malala is open?
Speaker 4: Oh my god. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, Milala's probably forward thinking, you know, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I was dying. I don't know. I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is appropriate to be perpetuating a rumor like this
Speaker 1: about a plow, but.
Speaker 2: That's funny, activist. But I just hope Malala is open
Speaker 2: and not getting cheated on.
Speaker 4: You're right, yeah, that would.
Speaker 2: Be, but that I honestly, men have no depths to
Speaker 2: their say there's a prophetic behavior.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Property.
Speaker 2: I am watching a really crazy documentary right now. I'm
Speaker 2: in the middle of it's called Anatomy of Lies.
Speaker 4: You're just gonna say, is an anatomy of lie? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I have read the longest articles about that whole story.
Speaker 2: It is fucking crazy. Is it is crazy. I'm in
Speaker 2: the middle of the third episode. I don't know how
Speaker 2: many there are, but I think, like also with the
Speaker 2: woman she married, like the drama there. I mean, I
Speaker 2: kind of don't even want to get into it. I
Speaker 2: think because I didn't know much. It's like, Okay, it's
Speaker 2: a liar people lie, but it's a really well done
Speaker 2: and it's interesting and engaging, and I have a lot
Speaker 2: of work to do, and it's like it's just in
Speaker 2: the background.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, I.
Speaker 4: Know, I know, it's so the story is so wild.
Speaker 1: And I remember hearing that it was going to become
Speaker 1: a documentary and I was like, ooh, I gotta check
Speaker 1: it out. And then I've been seeing it advertised to
Speaker 1: me because I forget who it was, like vanity fair
Speaker 1: or somebody did like one of those turned to page
Speaker 1: twenty eight, like turn you know, like where it continues
Speaker 1: on for pages in the end, like long article detailing
Speaker 1: that whole saga. If you'd have no idea what we're
Speaker 1: talking about, it's the Gray's Anatomy writer, Like I'll just
Speaker 1: say that, like, there is a Gray's Anatomy writer who
Speaker 1: got caught lying a lot. And that's like the gist.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of twists and turns could be
Speaker 1: I mean, could be at SVU truly if they yes.
Speaker 2: No, they didn't add it. There is there is, oh,
Speaker 2: there is. She marries a woman they meet at a
Speaker 2: PTSD retreat like rehabitess, and that woman had a lot
Speaker 2: of trauma. Yeah yeah, yeah, and this this other woman
Speaker 2: added a lot to I mean, to prey on someone
Speaker 2: like that is truly to lie to your coworkers one
Speaker 2: thing to ruin kids life, I mean, it is. It's
Speaker 2: just scary. Yeah, I guess it's scary. You don't know
Speaker 2: what's uh, like what's up? And people get addicted. She
Speaker 2: got addicted. She got addicted to the attention.
Speaker 1: And then she gets in You get in too deep.
Speaker 1: You don't know how to get out of these lies.
Speaker 1: You can't un coil from them, you know. It's like wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love hearing about all the coworkers. The
Speaker 2: thing that slipped my mind that I remembered I saw
Speaker 2: an article about Michelle Vassage's open marriage, and I guess
Speaker 2: I assumed it because all the jokes are about how
Speaker 2: she's a whore and a slut and under a bridge
Speaker 2: and like giving hand jobs. But I didn't marry for
Speaker 2: thirty years, and so now it all makes sense.
Speaker 1: I've met the article. He's hot, they're both really hot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: her husband, they're a hot couple, and their kids are beautiful.
Speaker 1: But I was confused why there was all these slut
Speaker 1: jokes when she's been married for three decades. And then
Speaker 1: this one article was like, Michelle Vissage says open marriage
Speaker 1: brings them closer together.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, I never heard that before. It makes sense.
Speaker 2: I mean it could be just a you know, a gossip,
Speaker 2: yeah or whatever. Yeah, but it just makes sense how
Speaker 2: she could be a married whore, you know, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: the joke's never made sense to me. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: My opener is this guy named Tony from Arizona.
Speaker 1: I love him.
Speaker 2: He's open for me in Sacramento, Arizona. If you've seen me,
Speaker 2: you've seen him. But him and his boyfriend got their
Speaker 2: white dog dyed purple and rainbow colored with vegetable dyes.
Speaker 4: Guess how much it costs? Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Two thousand dollars?
Speaker 2: No, all right, nine hundred Okay, well, I have no
Speaker 2: idea how much any of that costs.
Speaker 1: But like I always assume dog grooming and stuff is
Speaker 1: so expensive, but nine hundred dollars is crazy.
Speaker 2: But he yeah, he showed me the purple and rainbow
Speaker 2: dog and it's really funny.
Speaker 1: Does the dog like it? I mean, can you tell
Speaker 1: if the dog's like, hey, I used to be white
Speaker 1: and now my fur is a different color.
Speaker 4: Do you think the dog cares?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I know they have feelings, but I don't know if
Speaker 2: they have like a self realization.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Because they leap poop, they'll like lick peop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't know if he's like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be purple, and I don't even think they
Speaker 2: see collor and it's vegetable die like that's what's important
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, of course. I mean Nicole dies
Speaker 1: her dog's like tail purple, but I don't know about
Speaker 1: the whole body is is Wow, that's a real choice, funny. Well,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I just liked seeing a purple and rainbow
Speaker 1: dog because this dog is so it's like a Bejean freeze,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like a white fucking.
Speaker 4: Oh it's a little tiny guy. Oh, like a tiny
Speaker 4: little guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, are how are you getting closer to
Speaker 1: getting the family dog or you're still waiting till Rosie is?
Speaker 1: What eight ten?
Speaker 4: What are we doing?
Speaker 1: Well, we told them seven years when she's twelve and
Speaker 1: he's ten.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but we already decided that that's too long
Speaker 2: because then she'll go to high college.
Speaker 4: She needs more time with the dog.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so maybe five years when she's ten. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna sneak up on us. You know, it's already
Speaker 1: four and a half. I mean she's five and a
Speaker 1: half now, so it's four and a half years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, I get to the point where
Speaker 1: I'm smooth sailing. The kids are getting themselves dressed in
Speaker 1: the morning, they're sleeping to a normal But I think
Speaker 1: and then I'm like gotta get up and fucking take
Speaker 1: a dog for a walk and clean fleas out of
Speaker 1: its face and whatever.
Speaker 2: No, I think you should rescue a dog that's a
Speaker 2: few years old, that's got that's like got its shit together.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's down to play, knows how to go to
Speaker 4: the back.
Speaker 1: You're not going to be training a puppy, you know,
Speaker 1: a yard like a dog that gets it.
Speaker 4: You can get a dog that gets it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other day, I was on Instagram, by the way,
Speaker 1: and I saw this like sponsored video of Catherine Heigel.
Speaker 1: I don't follow her, but I for some reason was
Speaker 1: drawn into watching it. And it was like her talking
Speaker 1: about dogs and like dogs get older and their body
Speaker 1: changes and their need for food gets different, and I'm
Speaker 1: like okay, And then suddenly there's just an image of
Speaker 1: a cue tip cleaning out a dog's butthole, and I
Speaker 1: was like, why is this on Instagram? Assaulting me out
Speaker 1: of nowhere? It was so gross. I feel like like
Speaker 1: jar on my phone.
Speaker 4: I feel like.
Speaker 2: Jared is doing that on purpose, so you guys don't
Speaker 2: get one.
Speaker 4: He's like feeding your feed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, total with things that would disgust you totally.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Oh.
Speaker 2: Wait, not that, you know, the Q tip butt whole story.
Speaker 4: I can't keep on it, but shout out.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Right now we're in the middle of our tour, but
Speaker 2: Denver really showed out with the costume contest and we
Speaker 2: all got out one particular person that made us a
Speaker 2: Guess who an SVU Guess Who, and it was so
Speaker 2: fun to play.
Speaker 4: It's amazing.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's not like there's a picture of
Speaker 1: Olivia taped to like a card that says Frank or whatever.
Speaker 1: Like the cards are custom made. The cards like that
Speaker 1: you choose are custom made, like like a box laminated
Speaker 1: the box. It's really really awesome. I posted a photo
Speaker 1: of it. I'll post another one when this episode comes out.
Speaker 1: I posted it in our stories. But it's like, really
Speaker 1: big shout out to the girl who came dressed as
Speaker 1: Rawlins and gave us that, because that's a it's an heirloom.
Speaker 1: It's an heirloom item.
Speaker 2: And if you're still looking for your TEAMU Police Radio,
Speaker 2: I have it.
Speaker 1: I told you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you got home and you were like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: where is it? You left it behind? Girl, you left
Speaker 2: it behind and I snatched it. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2: It's been in my purse. I've been taking it out
Speaker 2: and wearing it like I love it. She'll be wearing
Speaker 2: at the rest of the tour.
Speaker 4: I'm sure.
Speaker 2: So you did a good deed by leaving it behind.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we'd got multiple gifts in that way. But
Speaker 2: the costumes were awesome, like Barbara Barbara, that was amazing.
Speaker 2: Four people came in overhead bandages and parties of two
Speaker 2: didn't know each other.
Speaker 4: Now they're friends.
Speaker 1: They're friends, I mean, and all the way around the
Speaker 1: head bandage so good. Somebody came as a mom, like
Speaker 1: a mom, and then Juice, so they were Mother's juice
Speaker 1: from Bully, which is like one of my favorite references.
Speaker 1: There was people, two people, a few people dressed as
Speaker 1: us and they had three D printed little microphones and
Speaker 1: they they're hair and like we're wearing glasses.
Speaker 4: They looked like us in the graphic from the podcast.
Speaker 4: It was great. It was great.
Speaker 1: And then the sex Crimes tease. Everybody showed up and
Speaker 1: showed out and we loved it. And I can't wait
Speaker 1: to see what people do at the other places. A
Speaker 1: couple I've gotten a couple of messages saying I can't
Speaker 1: wait for you to see my costume. So I'm excited
Speaker 1: what everyone's doing.
Speaker 2: And then in Denver, yeah, I was like twelve people
Speaker 2: dressed up and it was awesome. And then in Denver
Speaker 2: it was one woman, but Melinda Warner in Phoenix.
Speaker 1: In Phoenix it was one one where did I say,
Speaker 1: you said Denver, But yeah, in Phoenix it was one woman,
Speaker 1: but she really showed up.
Speaker 4: She was Melinda Warner and I loved her. She was great.
Speaker 1: All Right, we should we should stop because Casey's giving
Speaker 1: us the twenty minutes and this is a double episode
Speaker 1: so long, and we had the interview.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we gotta get going. We can't talk about.
Speaker 1: Funny because I can't talk about a buttholes for one
Speaker 1: minute longer.
Speaker 4: Sorry everyone, But I'll.
Speaker 2: Meet people at the live show and they'll say, like,
Speaker 2: I listen to you guys every day, and I believe
Speaker 2: it because our episodes are so long. If you're just
Speaker 2: if you're just driving to work and back and listening,
Speaker 2: like it can last you a fucking while. So that
Speaker 2: makes Yeah, you're getting a lot of we're the costco
Speaker 2: of podcasts.
Speaker 4: Keep it going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you might have to throw it away, but you
Speaker 1: know it might not. But you can't buy a palette.
Speaker 1: Oh we're fresh, We're fresh, We're fresh. And today's election day.
Speaker 1: Hopefully all of you have voted, did vote. Hopefully it
Speaker 1: is a safe election. Hopefully it goes the way of
Speaker 1: justice and freedom and democracy, and hopefully there's not violent mobs.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I'm fascism. We really need
Speaker 1: a Harris when I mean, listen, Marishka just came out,
Speaker 1: uh for Harris. And I know there are some republic
Speaker 1: people that listen to this podcast, and that's totally fine,
Speaker 1: but we have to remember what they did with the
Speaker 1: amount of justices they had on the Supreme Court, how
Speaker 1: they struck down Row versus Wade, and how if he wins,
Speaker 1: it is two more conservative judges are going to retire
Speaker 1: and he's going to appoint them, and then five out
Speaker 1: of nine Supreme Court justices will have been appointed by
Speaker 1: a game show host. I'm just saying, we cannot have that.
Speaker 1: You guys like imagine they he keeps saying he's not
Speaker 1: going to do a federal ban.
Speaker 4: I don't know why we would trust that.
Speaker 1: So for the sake of women, women's reproductive rights, if
Speaker 1: nothing else, please go cast your vote, and please cast
Speaker 1: it for the the person that's not going to dismantle
Speaker 1: women's healthcare.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, like Heraldo Rivera just came for Harris,
Speaker 2: like like endorsed Harris.
Speaker 4: Yeah, even the Looney Tunes are switching.
Speaker 2: And so even if you're you know, a Republican who
Speaker 2: sure you hate gay people and freedom, but maybe just
Speaker 2: this one time, you can sacrifice those beliefs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, guys, let's get the episode started, all right, Guys,
Speaker 1: today we are doing a double episode. We are doing
Speaker 1: Devil's Dissections and Criminal Pathology, which are the first two
Speaker 1: episodes of season seventeen. If you're watching on Hulu, they
Speaker 1: jam him into one episode, so it's like watching a
Speaker 1: little SVU mini movie. So this is a two part
Speaker 1: Season seventeen premiere. Season sixteen, if you'll remember, ended with
Speaker 1: Johnny Dee's dramatic courtroom shooting and then Benson officially adopting Noah.
Speaker 1: And this season is starting out with a recap of
Speaker 1: like the whole Gregory Yates saga, which we did cover
Speaker 1: the episode Daydream Believer. It's episode eighty six of our
Speaker 1: podcast if you want to go back and refresh your memory,
Speaker 1: and we did interview Yates himself, the very talented Dallas Roberts.
Speaker 1: We loved him and so, as you'll recall, he killed
Speaker 1: a ton of women, buried them on a beach in
Speaker 1: Long Island, and then he was convicted sent to prison.
Speaker 1: And very interesting that in between the little recap and
Speaker 1: the in the criminal justice system sexually based defenses, they
Speaker 1: are throwing us the card about how this is a
Speaker 1: fictional story, and I feel like that usually comes in
Speaker 1: a different place, like they really want you to know.
Speaker 1: And I think they're only doing this because it's like
Speaker 1: one hundred percent based on her true crime that was
Speaker 1: popping off at the time. But I'm going to leave
Speaker 1: that for Lisa. It is undeniable in these episodes, of course,
Speaker 1: So the cold open, it's just a woman's decomposing body
Speaker 1: sloshing around in the ocean and literally the close captioning
Speaker 1: said like water slashing, and then you just look and
Speaker 1: it's like this very gross image of this woman's body
Speaker 1: that clearly been in the water.
Speaker 4: For a while. We're at the beach.
Speaker 1: The cops are pulling out like this woman's torso and
Speaker 1: then like delivering it to Rollins and Creasy Careese says,
Speaker 1: what We're all thinking, was she dismembered before she went
Speaker 1: in the water or did she come apart in the water?
Speaker 1: The age old question, you know. And DNA tech Susan
Speaker 1: Chung is there. Friend of the pod Karen Senley, who
Speaker 1: has done our podcast, who says that there are cutting marks.
Speaker 1: But it seems like so it does seem like it's
Speaker 1: the first option. Creesy like somebody caught her up before
Speaker 1: she went into the water. Finn and Benson roll up.
Speaker 1: They all think this is Yates. They must have missed
Speaker 1: a body. Creasey says, oh, some skinny dipping teens cutting
Speaker 1: class kicked up the body. And I'm like, what a
Speaker 1: confidence to skip class and skinny dip middle of the day.
Speaker 4: Bright.
Speaker 1: Most of my skinny dipping has been at night. I
Speaker 1: don't know about you. I'm not really like a daytime.
Speaker 1: As a teen and a twenty something, I was not
Speaker 1: daytime skinny dipping to be like, what's up, let's all
Speaker 1: party daytime, freezing cold on the beach, and then you
Speaker 1: find a dead body. That's a pretty hot day for
Speaker 1: a teen.
Speaker 4: I would say.
Speaker 1: So this is weird because Yates buries his victims.
Speaker 4: This one was floating in the water.
Speaker 1: Benson's like yeah, and we covered the whole island, And
Speaker 1: Creasey's like, I just don't believe it would be a coincidence,
Speaker 1: and Rollins is like, yeah, but the dude didn't have
Speaker 1: the time for all of this. Like there was the
Speaker 1: victim from the sh Chicago Pete who he killed, comes
Speaker 1: out here, buries her, goes back into the city, like,
Speaker 1: assaults two flight attendants, murdering one of them that has
Speaker 1: a meal with his wife. When does he have time
Speaker 1: to murder this random woman? And also she's a redhead
Speaker 1: and he liked Brunette's So Benson's like, well, there's two options.
Speaker 1: Either we missed a body, or there's a Yates copycat
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 4: Dun du du du d d duh.
Speaker 1: So okay, we're hopping into the show at the Morgue.
Speaker 1: Doctor Carl Rudnik has on a full gamer headset, you know,
Speaker 1: and he's recording his notes as he examines the body.
Speaker 1: I just don't feel like we've ever I think we've
Speaker 1: seen Melinda talk out loud to a tape recorder, but
Speaker 1: I've never seen her with like a little headset on,
Speaker 1: like you know, Rhythm Nation style. He can't definitively rule
Speaker 1: out that this was Yates or say that it was Yates,
Speaker 1: but some of his findings are consistent with the Yates MO,
Speaker 1: including signs of sexual assault. Rollins is, like you can
Speaker 1: tell that after all the time in the water, Like
Speaker 1: how could you even tell? And like, also, this boy
Speaker 1: was dismembered, so that's not his MO at all. Rollins
Speaker 1: is like really not feeling the Yates connection here, and
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe that's because Yates is her best buddy.
Speaker 1: Rudnick says the cuts were made by someone with surgical training,
Speaker 1: and he found microscopic traces of green nail polish, which,
Speaker 1: if you recall, is a Yates kink, Like he loved
Speaker 1: this nail polish that was green. That was like I
Speaker 1: think he put it on all of his victims. Careesi
Speaker 1: is ribbing Rollins like you still think it's a coincidence,
Speaker 1: Like after the nail polish comment, so you know they've
Speaker 1: got tension, the two of them at Greenhaven Correctional. Yates
Speaker 1: is looking over the disgusting photos of this mutilated body
Speaker 1: that's been in the water for god knows how long,
Speaker 1: and he's barely able to contain his boner, Like he
Speaker 1: is so excited and he's talking to his best buddy
Speaker 1: Rollins and he's like, so you guys think I did this,
Speaker 1: And he's like, we had a saying in medical school.
Speaker 1: If you hear hoof beats, think horses, not Zebras, which
Speaker 1: is literally a saying before yes and the Zebra's episode exactly.
Speaker 1: It's like what the Zebras episode is named after. So
Speaker 1: someone at someone who writes for that show has a
Speaker 1: boner for that turn of phrase. She brings up the
Speaker 1: green nail polish and he basically comes in his pants
Speaker 1: and just like he's like, uh, like he's so excited
Speaker 1: about the green nail polish. And then he's like someone
Speaker 1: is trying to frame me. And then he says gingers
Speaker 1: are anathema to me, which is I don't know, the
Speaker 1: sentence stuck out to me, like he does not like gingers.
Speaker 1: They are not part of his profile. And he's like, babe,
Speaker 1: you know I love brunettes and I would never dismember
Speaker 1: a body. It's barbaric. I mean, this is a man
Speaker 1: who bashed a flight attendant's head in you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And he's like, that's disgusting. I would not
Speaker 1: cut up a body. He tells Rollins he needs a
Speaker 1: couple of days to think about it and if she
Speaker 1: comes back, he might have some ideas for her. And
Speaker 1: then oh, now I was actually incorrect. Now it's the credits.
Speaker 1: Now it's the done done. At the precinct, Rollins is
Speaker 1: in a walk and talk with Live, trying to convince
Speaker 1: her that this does not fit the Aights profile, and
Speaker 1: she thinks she's Clarice Starling over here. She's like, I'm
Speaker 1: cultivating a source. Benson is pissed. She's like, you shouldn't
Speaker 1: have gone there without clearing it with me, like and
Speaker 1: going alone. Nobody wants Rawlins to go by herself to
Speaker 1: go talk to Yates. Finn thinks Yates is a psycho
Speaker 1: who is playing Rollins, and then Careese busts in and
Speaker 1: is like, we got a DNA match and it's from
Speaker 1: someone in the military. Brook Groves twenty eight rotc at
Speaker 1: sunny Plattsburgh, So all right, Cariese's like, let's head to
Speaker 1: her last known address and Rollins wants to go too,
Speaker 1: but lives like stay here. So she's in the doghouse. Baby,
Speaker 1: She's getting punished. Finn and Rollins at the vending machines
Speaker 1: are now talking about tomorrow. She's like, cause he's just left.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow's just pieced out. He's happy. He's doing pet in
Speaker 1: Laguna Beach, and he's got a lead in the US
Speaker 1: park Police. So this is obviously a stopover profession for
Speaker 1: tomorrow before he becomes a DNA geneticist or whatever he
Speaker 1: ends up becoming in the more recent seasons, so that
Speaker 1: he might.
Speaker 4: Do park play.
Speaker 1: Then she's pissed. Benson's like, why is Benson grounding me?
Speaker 4: This sucks?
Speaker 1: Like I know how Yates thinks I can get inside
Speaker 1: his head, and he's like, your fing goes. You're good
Speaker 1: at getting inside these guys heads. Don't let them get
Speaker 1: inside yours. You know, Ice cold facts, Ice cold fin facts.
Speaker 1: Also at Brooke Groves's house in Westchester, there's bikes and toys.
Speaker 4: Careesy is very sad that the victim might be a mom.
Speaker 1: And the woman who answers the door is the redhead
Speaker 1: from the DNA picture that they got, and so what
Speaker 1: the fuck is going on? And her name I actually
Speaker 1: know her. Her name is Cody Lindquist, and I know
Speaker 1: her from UCB days. She is married to a guy
Speaker 1: named Charlie Todd who started improv everywhere. They would do
Speaker 1: that thing where like three hundred people would all go
Speaker 1: to a best Buy dressed in a best Buy employee outfit,
Speaker 1: like big sort of like very Robin Williams.
Speaker 4: Crank type things.
Speaker 1: Yesact exactly, very improv every like. I honestly think improv
Speaker 1: Everywhere is the ones that did the stop thing at
Speaker 1: Grant Central that is in that episode. I'm almost positive
Speaker 1: they are. And so anyway, that's Cody Linquist. She's a
Speaker 1: talented improviser. And she's like, what's up, I'm Broot Groves.
Speaker 1: And then she sends her sons Bobby and Tommy write
Speaker 1: that down on the list to our listener, who's keeping
Speaker 1: a list of all the Tommy's in this show. Go
Speaker 1: play iPad and then she gets out on the porch
Speaker 1: she's like, did something happen to my husband? And they're like, no,
Speaker 1: we're thinking there's like a mix up here. We've got
Speaker 1: a body in the morgue. And then she immediately looks devastated,
Speaker 1: and that's right, it's Rachel, her identical twin sister. Classic SVU.
Speaker 1: For there to be somebody with the exact same DNA
Speaker 1: she's a strange from her sister. Her husband said she
Speaker 1: couldn't come around anymore. After the kids were born, the
Speaker 1: sister kind of fell apart after their mom died, got
Speaker 1: into drinking in drugs. She's like, I'd give her money sometimes,
Speaker 1: but then you know, her husband said, you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to talk to your sister who's obviously troubled.
Speaker 4: Which I don't love.
Speaker 1: And then a few months ago she called really high
Speaker 1: and my sister, and I told her I was done
Speaker 1: enabling her, and then she wants to know, like what happened.
Speaker 1: So now we're back at the Morgue with Rudnick, who,
Speaker 1: by the way, is played by Jefferson Mays, a prolific
Speaker 1: character director. I've seen him in tons of stuff aside
Speaker 1: from this, like Perry Mason and I Am the Night.
Speaker 1: He's in a lot of stuff, and Rudnick is leading
Speaker 1: Brooke to identify the body behind glass. I do not
Speaker 1: see why this is necessary, Like if the DNA is
Speaker 1: a match, close it out, Like why would you want
Speaker 1: the image of your sister's like water logged, cut up
Speaker 1: torso in your mind for the end of time. I
Speaker 1: just don't think I would go in there for that idea.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, you have the like IDs I thought
Speaker 1: were kind of like in the absence of DNA matches.
Speaker 2: Well, I think some I mean I think some people
Speaker 2: also want to see their person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it's like pretty horrific. Anyway, the blinds
Speaker 1: go up and she's like, that's Rachel and she falls
Speaker 1: into Rudnick's arms and she's sobbing. So now we're at
Speaker 1: Midtown Mission and an employee there says that, yeah, Rachel
Speaker 1: stayed here on and off. She was troubled, but I
Speaker 1: was so happy when her mother came for her. This
Speaker 1: woman remembers, like every SVU classic character, she remembers three
Speaker 1: months ago exactly who came for Rachel and what she
Speaker 1: was wearing. So they're like, let's go check the cameras.
Speaker 1: And this mission has gorgeous color, like four K footage
Speaker 1: of the outside of their place, and we see footage
Speaker 1: of Rachel leaving the mission with this older lady, but
Speaker 1: you can't really see her face. The timecode is all
Speaker 1: fucked up, and they're going to have to take it
Speaker 1: to Taru for a little look.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 1: Rollins tells Benson that Yates has called twice, and he
Speaker 1: says he's got more info and insists on only talking
Speaker 1: to Rollins, and Benson's like, fine, you can go see
Speaker 1: your psychopath boyfriend, but you cannot go by yourself. So
Speaker 1: now Finn is there with her when they leave, Yates
Speaker 1: in like. Yates doesn't love that, but he's willing to
Speaker 1: talk to Rowins. So Yates tells him, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a long shot, but the red hair. It kind of
Speaker 1: reminded me of this incident that happened when I was
Speaker 1: in medical school fifteen years ago, two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: when a senior resident asked me to come over and
Speaker 1: get him stitches. He didn't want to go to the
Speaker 1: hospital because he was embarrassed. He had bruising and cuts
Speaker 1: and human bitemarks on his inner thigh and scrotum, and
Speaker 1: he said it was a sex game gone wrong.
Speaker 4: Ou la la.
Speaker 1: So Yates asks if the partner had split like the
Speaker 1: woman in the sex game, but he could tell that
Speaker 1: she was still in the townhouse. He saw a clump
Speaker 1: of red hair on the floor and he could smell her.
Speaker 1: And this is gross, but he's like, not even like
Speaker 1: the sex or like the smell of like a woman,
Speaker 1: just he could smell her fear, and he says to him,
Speaker 1: fear smells like ammonia. Ugh Rollins wants a name, and
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm not giving you a name, but it
Speaker 1: was Convent Avenue in Harlem. So now he remembers again
Speaker 1: this address perfectly from fifteen years earlier. They're at the townhouse.
Speaker 1: Kriese said. The house was bought by the Changs four
Speaker 1: years ago, renovated after it had fallen into disrepair by
Speaker 1: the previous owner named Manon Favreau, who died in two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, and she was a widow. Just as
Speaker 1: Carisie is telling Benson like, what are the chances were
Speaker 1: gonna find anything in there, Rollins emerges and is like,
Speaker 1: come look at what we found in here, which is
Speaker 1: I love when that happens. CSU techs found something using
Speaker 1: GPR ground penetrating radar and the wall used to be
Speaker 1: a chimney. There's a wall in there that used to
Speaker 1: be a chimney and there's something in it. So they
Speaker 1: cut into the damn wall and they find a suitcase
Speaker 1: and when they open that baby up, what is inside
Speaker 1: but a blanket surrounding the mummified dead body of a woman.
Speaker 1: Huge first act Benson is now downloading Barbara, they're getting DNA.
Speaker 1: Barba's like, Babe, it's Yates, Like come on, Like everybody
Speaker 1: keeps being like Awkham's Razor, it's Yates, it's Yates. Benson's like,
Speaker 1: Rollins says, he swears he didn't do it, and Barba's like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe this shit, Like wow, we're like taking
Speaker 1: a serial killer's word for it. So now we're at
Speaker 1: the morgue with Rudnik and the body was cut up
Speaker 1: into pieces bio medical professional, just like Rachel's body was.
Speaker 1: And Rollins does look like she's about to throw up,
Speaker 1: and Benson and Barbara roll In and want the four
Speaker 1: to one one from Redd. This woman was a white
Speaker 1: female twenty five. He believes cause of death is strangulation
Speaker 1: and that the smoke from the chimney and the heat
Speaker 1: mummified the body.
Speaker 4: Interesting who knew? Who knew?
Speaker 1: He's found no DNA of the killer, and he's basically
Speaker 1: telling them he thinks this is a Yates job without
Speaker 1: saying it, like he keeps like sort of heavily hinting
Speaker 1: at it. And because he's like this high up emmy,
Speaker 1: They're all like you hear what he's saying. He's saying
Speaker 1: it's Yates. Rollins is walking and talking with Benson and
Speaker 1: Barba and is like, guys, he's appealing his conviction. Why
Speaker 1: would he tip us off to another body? Like he's sick,
Speaker 1: He's not an idiot. So now Benson and Rollins go
Speaker 1: talk to Yates and he's like, I know who the
Speaker 1: girl is and who killed her.
Speaker 4: And it's like, ask not what your psychopath.
Speaker 1: Tererial killer can do for you, but what you can
Speaker 1: do for your psycho pat serial killer. He wants a deal,
Speaker 1: you know, he was like, what are you gonna do
Speaker 1: for me? So they bring it to Barbara. Yeates wants
Speaker 1: to fuck. This is what he wants. He wants a
Speaker 1: conjugal visit with his fiance Susie Frame and we met
Speaker 1: her in the past the Daydream Believer episode. Well, and
Speaker 1: Barbara is pissed, like this is going to look so
Speaker 1: bad if it gets out, like letting a psycho trade
Speaker 1: like tips for Tits basically, and Barbara caves and it's like, fuck,
Speaker 1: I love it Nips for Tits program.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Barba's like, fine, let him fuck, but you better be
Speaker 1: right about this Rollins. So they're letting a lot of
Speaker 1: this ride on Rollins, this intuition and her you know,
Speaker 1: sudden ability to just really get in the minds of
Speaker 1: serial killers. Benson and Rollins are outside of a trailer
Speaker 1: listening to the sound of Yates and his fiance boning.
Speaker 1: It's nasty. Benson's like, are we good? And then like
Speaker 1: a uniformed officer goes in to like break it up.
Speaker 1: Susie comes out, followed by Yates, who's just in his
Speaker 1: fucking boxers and a button down, like he doesn't not
Speaker 1: put pants on. They need to question Susie and she's like,
Speaker 1: I didn't know about this, and he's like, it's okay, baby,
Speaker 1: just go like answer their questions. He asks Benson and
Speaker 1: Rollins to come into his nasty sex trailer because they'll
Speaker 1: have privacy in there so that he can deliver on
Speaker 1: his part of the deal. Meanwhile, Susie is like, well,
Speaker 1: now that you found these other bodies, you better release
Speaker 1: Greg immediately, like because you know clearly this other person
Speaker 1: did all of the crimes that he's accused of as well.
Speaker 1: She thinks he's innocent and framed. I mean, this woman
Speaker 1: is the mayor of De Lulu Town. She tells them
Speaker 1: that the girl in the wall is named Lena Grunwald
Speaker 1: and that they were all friends. She thought Lena went
Speaker 1: home to Switzerland, but it looks like she never left
Speaker 1: the States. Back in the sex trailer, Yates is also
Speaker 1: talking about Lena and her fiance. She says his name
Speaker 1: was Carl. He was a strange man, delicate and pale,
Speaker 1: kept to himself. His last name is Rutnick, Doctor Carl Rutnick.
Speaker 1: It's like, I know we all know this, but I
Speaker 1: remember when this first happened. I was when I first
Speaker 1: watched this episode. I was like, what the fuck like,
Speaker 1: cause it's like, besides Stucky, is there another time where
Speaker 1: like oh, and I guess Stucky. Josh peis like, there
Speaker 1: are other times where it's somebody with visum. All the
Speaker 1: judges or whatever.
Speaker 2: D FBI, because remember their offices have been bugged, yeah, exploded.
Speaker 2: So I feel like the FBI people have yeah with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, because Marsha gay Harden. You know, Star,
Speaker 2: that's true, Star was guilty of a crow. I'm not
Speaker 2: inside inside, but pretty inside.
Speaker 1: But also the people that do the forensics, because that's
Speaker 1: so I guess whatever, it's just as easy to plant
Speaker 1: for forensics, as it is to analyze forensics. So it's
Speaker 1: bad no matter who is framing people up. But you
Speaker 1: like to we can trust Melinda, you know. So Benson's like,
Speaker 1: all right, shut it down. She walks out of the
Speaker 1: sex trailer. Rolin is like, Rowlands is like, fuck you, dude.
Speaker 1: I went out on a limb for you. I let
Speaker 1: you get some ass. I now you're playing games and
Speaker 1: you're going so far upstate you're not even gonna believe
Speaker 1: it. It's just like, what what did I say? Like he's
Speaker 1: truly he's gagged. He doesn't know what's going on. Rollins
Speaker 1: is like doctor Carl Rudnick, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: is a serial killer, and he's like, wait, Carl became
Speaker 1: an emmy, Like do you think he knows or this
Speaker 1: is an act? He seemed really surprised and excited, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. I yeah, because like it's like if
Speaker 1: he knew, he could have brought that up at his trial.
Speaker 1: Like the emmy that you've let examine my case is
Speaker 1: exactly someone I know and hasn't recused himself. So they've met. Well,
Speaker 1: that's true. He might not even know that he worked
Speaker 1: on his cases. No, unless he saw the case and
Speaker 1: then he testified, but then this wouldn't have been Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, Maybe I don't think he knew because I
Speaker 1: don't think they keep in touch, right because we see
Speaker 1: them in you know later, and it's not like they're
Speaker 1: they love each other right right, right, right right? Okay,
Speaker 1: like competitive people. Yeah, I agree, I agree he didn't know.
Speaker 1: He didn't know. And he's like, that makes so much sense.
Speaker 1: He never liked people, but he loved cutting. That's not
Speaker 1: a great description of something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I like when people go to med school
Speaker 2: and then realize they don't have any bedside Matt, like,
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be a doctor, yeah, with patients and they
Speaker 2: should do research or whatever.
Speaker 1: Like that's totally totally And he's like, wait, did he
Speaker 1: work on any of the bodies of the women you
Speaker 1: found on the beach aka his victims? That could have
Speaker 1: triggered him, That would have turned him on and made
Speaker 1: him go want to go do a murder for himself.
Speaker 1: So did Rudnick do the Pelham bagrel optopsy two? Have
Speaker 1: them check again? I bet he cut her up while
Speaker 1: she was still alive. Oh horrible. Barbara is furious now
Speaker 1: top of back three of this episode, he is like,
Speaker 1: this guy worked your asses. Rollins apologizes, She's like, I
Speaker 1: got played. But Carisi said there was Alena Grunwald who
Speaker 1: never graduated from Columbia and just vanished in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two. So we got to rule this out so
Speaker 1: that Yeates doesn't win his appeal and everyone's Cariese points
Speaker 1: that out and everyone's like, yeah, Carise's actually right, like
Speaker 1: we have to run down this lead. You know, how
Speaker 1: well do you guys know Rudnick and Benson's like, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 4: He got here right before you did.
Speaker 1: He came out of Miami Dade, Dexter, everyone and everyone
Speaker 1: that works in forensics in Miami is a serial killer.
Speaker 1: Rudnick never mentioned that he went to school with Yates,
Speaker 1: and he should have recused himself on the case, like,
Speaker 1: go check if he has a connect to the townhouse
Speaker 1: or to Lena at Susie Frain's house. She is very
Speaker 1: much proving that there is a connect, showing them delightful
Speaker 1: little New Year's pictures of Yates, Lena, Rudnick, and Susie
Speaker 1: all like cheersing on a New Year's in two thousand
Speaker 1: and one in Montreal. She said they went on European
Speaker 1: vacations together a bunch of times, and she really liked Lena.
Speaker 4: She was worldly and spoke.
Speaker 1: Other languages, she was fun to, a fun travel buddy,
Speaker 1: and that her relationship with Carl was drunk and rowdy.
Speaker 1: Lena told her if anything ever happened to her, it
Speaker 1: was Carl. I mean, who knows what Susie says. She's
Speaker 1: also thinks fucking Yates is innocent. So when Susie didn't
Speaker 1: hear anything from Lena, she was going to go to
Speaker 1: the police. But then she got a note from Lena
Speaker 1: with a photo of herself in her village of Grindwald,
Speaker 1: and it said sorry, had to get away, And She's like,
Speaker 1: I might have the note somewhere. This woman like a
Speaker 1: memento hoarder, which I will say, I also have pretty
Speaker 1: much every note or letter anyone's ever sent to me,
Speaker 1: so I'd probably be able to find it if you
Speaker 1: gave me a few days. At the precinct, Rollins is
Speaker 1: still working the case. She finds the cable bill from
Speaker 1: the townhouse where Lena was found and guess whose name
Speaker 1: is on it? Karl rudnick manon Fevreau, the widow who
Speaker 1: died and owned that townhouse, Karl Rudnick's great aunt. Now
Speaker 1: that's a pretty huge coincidence. So Rudnick also didn't disclose
Speaker 1: that the body he just autopsied was from his aunt's
Speaker 1: house where he lived when it got plastered into the wall,
Speaker 1: Like he was a resident at the time in two
Speaker 1: thousand and two, So he could have autopsied his own
Speaker 1: fiance thirteen years after killing her. Oh my Godcha, quite
Speaker 1: a twist. They got to bring in the big guns.
Speaker 1: They got to bring in Melinda to redo all of
Speaker 1: these autopsies. So now Warner is in the morgue listening
Speaker 1: to the notes and find something immediately that is like incorrect.
Speaker 1: She's like, well, the time of death is way off.
Speaker 1: Like if the body went into the water in April,
Speaker 1: the fish would have nibbled at it to a certain degree,
Speaker 1: so it must have gone in in May. And then
Speaker 1: Warner is pretty shocked. She's like, Rudnick is meticulous. He's
Speaker 1: one of the top Emmys in the country. He works
Speaker 1: six days a week, never takes overtime. We all talk
Speaker 1: about how he has family money, and I was like,
Speaker 1: it's nice to know that in other professions. They're always
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how people have their money, because
Speaker 1: I am. I'm always trying to be like, how can
Speaker 1: you afford your life? You know.
Speaker 4: Benson is trying to make.
Speaker 1: Excuses like maybe he's just overworked, and Warner is like, well,
Speaker 1: his notes also fail to mention that all of the
Speaker 1: dismemberment took place anti mortem, meaning the victim was alive
Speaker 1: when they.
Speaker 4: Were cut up.
Speaker 1: Horrible, horrible, It's like so awful. Melinda wants to know
Speaker 1: what's up, and they're like, we can't tell you, babe,
Speaker 1: active investigation. And then Finn, a real one, tells Melinda
Speaker 1: just watch your back with Rudnick.
Speaker 4: So good.
Speaker 1: Someone told her like, don't be alone in here with
Speaker 1: him if he's off duty yet or whatever, Like they
Speaker 1: haven't take him into custody for questioning at least. I
Speaker 1: just can't believe he's just like on the loose right now.
Speaker 1: But Rollins is showing Barbara some Swiss dentistry that confirms
Speaker 1: that the body in the wall is Lena. So they
Speaker 1: have TSA records of Lena returning to Switzerland, but never
Speaker 1: of her coming back to the US. So Cariese's like,
Speaker 1: what about this. What about if Rudnick went to Europe
Speaker 1: with Lena's passport and came back with his own passport. Damn,
Speaker 1: And Barba goes, here's suggesting he was able to pass
Speaker 1: as a woman post nine to eleven, because it would
Speaker 1: have been two, you know, right after nine to eleven.
Speaker 1: So also Rachel was seen leaving the mission with an
Speaker 1: older woman. They're checking facial recognition on that video. Live
Speaker 1: is checking with one PP about bringing him in for questioning,
Speaker 1: and Barba's like, call her off. We can ask for
Speaker 1: forgiveness later. Right now, I'll just find a way to
Speaker 1: get him to my office. And Rollins is like, how
Speaker 1: about a warrant? And she is like horny for this warrant.
Speaker 1: She's like knives dresses, who knows what we'll find? And
Speaker 1: Barbara like gives her a nod, like go get it.
Speaker 1: And so Barbara brings Rudnick in and reminds him that
Speaker 1: the room is being recorded and that Yates is appealing
Speaker 1: his conviction, so this conversation could be discoverable. Rudnick al says, oh,
Speaker 1: I also record everything, so interesting flag for follow up,
Speaker 1: As my friend Lizzie Cooperman would say, Benson arrives and
Speaker 1: shows Rudnick the autopsy file on what he called the
Speaker 1: Yates victim, Like, so he's already he's planting it everywhere. Oh,
Speaker 1: you mean that Yeates victim. It's like, no one has
Speaker 1: proved it's a Yates victim yet, but he's saying that.
Speaker 1: She points out the address and he's like, wow, how bizarre.
Speaker 1: I never noticed. It's my great aunt's house where I
Speaker 1: lived for several years. Did not clock that. Meanwhile, Cariese
Speaker 1: and Finn are at Rudnick's home and they find autopsy
Speaker 1: photos next to his bed ill. Then they show him
Speaker 1: a photo of Lena and he's like, yep, that's my
Speaker 1: old flame. And then they tell him, well, we think
Speaker 1: the body that we found in your aunt's house is Lena,
Speaker 1: And again, how are we not arresting this man? Like,
Speaker 1: I just I don't understand why this is not enough
Speaker 1: to arrest him. And he says, the last time I
Speaker 1: saw her she was at the airport and heading back
Speaker 1: to Switzerland. She must have come back to New York
Speaker 1: and then fallen in with Yates and Barbara's like, and
Speaker 1: then took her to your aunt's house and killed her
Speaker 1: and entombed.
Speaker 4: Her in the wall and you didn't know about it.
Speaker 1: That's that's a walk, buddy, And Rudnick's like, yep, makes
Speaker 1: perfect sense. He also doesn't think it's weird that he
Speaker 1: never disclosed that he knew Rudnick Yates in med school,
Speaker 1: Like he's not. He doesn't think that's like a weird thing.
Speaker 1: He's trying to pin this all on Yates and he
Speaker 1: realizes that they suspect him, and he's like, oh, heavens no,
Speaker 1: you don't think I have something to do with this.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, the gang is at his
Speaker 1: apartment and they discover his extensive worn wardrobe of fem
Speaker 1: leaning clothes and wigs, and Rodnick is like, I better
Speaker 1: lawyer up. So that ends that. Now Benson and Barbara
Speaker 1: are freaking out that if this guy is guilty, it
Speaker 1: taints every case he's been a part of, which is
Speaker 1: fucked up. I remember in this staircase, the blood spatter
Speaker 1: guy that they had like was totally wrong and they
Speaker 1: had to go back and like examine like every one
Speaker 1: of his cases again. So well, yeah, and that's happened.
Speaker 2: There was the documentary of like the medical examiner or
Speaker 2: the testing people getting addicted to drugs.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then all of her stuff had to be rechecked.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that really fucks a lot of cases and
Speaker 1: could let a lot of like very you know, could
Speaker 1: let a lot of dangerous people go free. And then
Speaker 1: up walks Rita Calhoun, you know, Carl Rodneck's lawyer, the
Speaker 1: amazing Elizabeth Marvel, who say this, Yeah, this guy is
Speaker 1: beyond for it. We know this guy's got the cash. Okay,
Speaker 1: She's like, Carl is leaving and he's done talking to you.
Speaker 1: So that Benson gets a text with a picture of
Speaker 1: the closet of women's clothing and shows it to Barbara
Speaker 1: and he goes, no, actually he's not going anywhere. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's the smoking gun that's gonna keep running concustody.
Speaker 4: Like that's it.
Speaker 1: Never mind, have you seen this closet of dresses? Like
Speaker 1: how about it was his girlfriend? He was living at
Speaker 1: the house talking to the murder. There's so many way
Speaker 1: reasons to suspect him. But they're like the clothing, that's
Speaker 1: what does it for us. Anyway, they all walk in
Speaker 1: and Benson arrests Rudnick with cuffs. It's the whole thing.
Speaker 1: They take them away in court, Rita is requesting roar,
Speaker 1: but Barbara is ready for that shit. Rudnick is accused
Speaker 1: of horrible crimes, covering shit up plus being a rich
Speaker 1: bitch so he can flee whenever, and they believe he's
Speaker 1: traveled internationally with a victim's passport. So the judge is like, agree,
Speaker 1: I'm surrender. He needs to surrender his passport and bail
Speaker 1: is two million dollars. That's a high bail. In the
Speaker 1: next scene, Finn tells us up top that Rudnick posted
Speaker 1: that bail like no problem immediately. The Rodneck stories all
Speaker 1: over the news. There's daily News and like the New
Speaker 1: York Post, like all of these like things have like
Speaker 1: you know, I thought I wrote it down somewhere like
Speaker 1: bad bad doctor or whatever, like murdering doc or something,
Speaker 1: murdering medic, something like that, murdering Emmy. Benson is sending
Speaker 1: Noah off with you know, full time nanny Luis.
Speaker 4: She works around the clock.
Speaker 1: The facial recognition of the Lena Tsa photo isn't enough.
Speaker 1: They need that photo that she allegedly sent to Susie,
Speaker 1: but no one can reach Susie right now. And when
Speaker 1: they talk to Yates, he was concerned because she missed
Speaker 1: a phone date with him, and she would never miss
Speaker 1: a phone day with Yates. So they talked the night
Speaker 1: before and she said she found the photo and it
Speaker 1: looked like Rudnick in drag and she'd never noticed that
Speaker 1: it wasn't her beautiful friend who was a twenty five
Speaker 1: year old woman, it was instead a man in his forties. So,
Speaker 1: uh oh, is Rodnick still in custody? No, he made bail,
Speaker 1: so this is bad news. Cut to Susie's house. It
Speaker 1: is a wreck. Everything is tossed, blood is splattered and
Speaker 1: smeared everywhere, and a uni is like, hey, sarge, we
Speaker 1: got freshly cut body parts coming in with the tide.
Speaker 1: So this is all happening very fast. Now they're back
Speaker 1: at the beach. They're putting the pieces together of the body.
Speaker 1: There's a leg and arm. Then they find her head
Speaker 1: and they're like, okay, it's Susie. Here's her head, and
Speaker 1: poor Yates is fiance. She is like lying on the
Speaker 1: beach like a jigsaw puzzle person. And at Rodneck's house
Speaker 1: they're about to drill the door open when Rita arrives
Speaker 1: and she's like, you don't have a warrant and Benson
Speaker 1: is like trying to use yesterday's warren, which is kind
Speaker 1: of funny because Benson's usually so by the book and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, we had one yesterday and Rita's like yeah,
Speaker 1: but like, no, you can't use that. Warrants aren't like
Speaker 1: you know, they don't cross over to other days, and
Speaker 1: they're like, Rita, babe, this guy killed someone. And Benson's
Speaker 1: going back and forth arguing with her, like while the
Speaker 1: camera flips back and forth to the beach where Rollins
Speaker 1: is just like staring at Susie's puzzle piece body and
Speaker 1: Rodneck's car is missing. He's not answering his phone, and
Speaker 1: Rita's like, get a warrant, and this guy's in the
Speaker 1: wind back at the Susie scene, Rollins has to run
Speaker 1: and puke, So that's interesting. She's been looking squeamish the
Speaker 1: whole time, and normally she's fine with that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So Barba is furious. He's like, this guy gets out
Speaker 1: on bail and now a prosecution witness is washing up
Speaker 1: in the tide, like where.
Speaker 4: The fuck is this guy? He's tweaking out.
Speaker 1: Then he gets a call on his phone and he goes, yes,
Speaker 1: I'll hold for the governor and it's like, wow, a
Speaker 1: lot of stress. I can't imagine, you know, the governor's
Speaker 1: calling you to basically shit on your your police work
Speaker 1: and your department's police work.
Speaker 4: So greasy.
Speaker 1: Benson and Rollins are now talking about the photo. It's
Speaker 1: nowhere at Susie's house. So maybe she called Roudnick to
Speaker 1: tell him she had it to blackmail him, and she
Speaker 1: wouldn't have thought that up on her own. Like, we
Speaker 1: got to talk to Yates, and Rollins wants to go alone,
Speaker 1: but Benson's like, no, not happening. So at green Haven,
Speaker 1: the prison, Benson and Rollins are now talking to Yates.
Speaker 1: He wants to see the body. He wants to see
Speaker 1: Susie's body like he's sick as hell, and he wants
Speaker 1: the Emmy to also check Susie's hCG levels. He wants
Speaker 1: to know if she was pregnant, he said, I think
Speaker 1: like basically they had sex in the Daydream Believer episode,
Speaker 1: like that was you know earlier, a few months earlier
Speaker 1: in the timeline of the show, and now he wants
Speaker 1: to know if she's pregnant because when they had their
Speaker 1: conjugal recently, she agreed to take a pregnancy test. He
Speaker 1: was maybe going to be a father, and Rudnick took
Speaker 1: that from me and it fades to black on Yeates
Speaker 1: is like a psycho face, and I think this feels
Speaker 1: like the beginning of the next episode. I think it is,
Speaker 1: but I can't be sure. Benson is in a new
Speaker 1: outfit and blowout, so that's why I think, Okay, it's
Speaker 1: a new day, it's a new down, it's a new episode.
Speaker 1: She walks into the precinct and they're on the hunt
Speaker 1: for Rudnick. They're searching his credit cards, you know, checking
Speaker 1: planes and everything nothing. Rudnick has been wiring money to
Speaker 1: four different people and one of them named One of
Speaker 1: them is named Terry Fish, and Rollins finds a Teresa
Speaker 1: Fish in his caseload and on the DMV site, they
Speaker 1: pull up Teresa Fish and it's fucking Rudnick in a
Speaker 1: long blonde wig on the license photo. Which you gotta
Speaker 1: love this guy's commitment to the bit. He's really like
Speaker 1: everything's planned out. He's got multiple personalities, multiple bank accounts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would love to see you and him send some
Speaker 1: Google callin loving each other.
Speaker 4: I'm loving the logistics.
Speaker 1: It's like seems like a really fun like, okay, well
Speaker 1: today Teresa's got to be at this apartment.
Speaker 2: Well you know Jared, uh, you know, not your husband,
Speaker 2: but we've become closer throughout recent time, and just last
Speaker 2: week he looked at me, he goes, so you get
Speaker 2: really riled and stressed out logistics, Like, yes, that is me.
Speaker 1: It's like funny to see people learn your inner workings.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we were just going and he was being
Speaker 2: late and I was so bro I'm like, I'm just leaving,
Speaker 2: I'll meet you there, like I can't do.
Speaker 1: And he was like, you're usually just so chill about
Speaker 1: things and not care and like.
Speaker 4: Go half your things.
Speaker 2: But he just because in the car I was being
Speaker 2: crazy too, and he goes, wow, love that tone you've chosen,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, he learned.
Speaker 1: He learned I love love that tone you've chosen. That's
Speaker 1: really funny. Oh my god. So like a plan changed
Speaker 1: really quickly, and I was in the car be like, oh,
Speaker 1: so she's invite ourselves and then change the restaurant and
Speaker 1: then I go, I'm actually fine, sorry about that, and
Speaker 1: it's fine. He's just starting to see the cracks of
Speaker 1: my personality, but he's sticking with me. It's worth it.
Speaker 1: It's worth sticking through. Wait, I tell you this, you're
Speaker 1: gonna love this.
Speaker 2: So or maybe I didn't tell you, but I did
Speaker 2: his podcast and he's like, oh, tell me how to
Speaker 2: say sorry?
Speaker 4: What in Russian?
Speaker 1: Ah?
Speaker 2: So I'm like teaching him how to say it? And
Speaker 2: then I go, why do you want me to teach
Speaker 2: you to say that? He goes, it's the name of
Speaker 2: the podcast.
Speaker 1: I knew that I did because I remember, like when
Speaker 1: I saw it, I was like, that's perfect for him
Speaker 1: because that sound it's like sorry what Like that sounds
Speaker 1: like something Jared would say. I know, But why do
Speaker 1: you want me to teach you how to say that?
Speaker 1: That's so funny? Oh my god, No, I don't. Can
Speaker 1: you say that's messed up in Russian? Or does that
Speaker 1: not really translate because it's like so colloquial. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: think about it, and but that just means that ain't right.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like that that shit ain't right. Okay, maybe that's
Speaker 1: new merch is that's messed up in Russian? And I
Speaker 1: don't know cyrillic letters. Would you guys wear a sweatshirt?
Speaker 1: Let's do it cyrillic? Is it that the letters in Russian? Sure? I, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong. Somebody tell me Casey Google. I don't
Speaker 1: want to get canceled. So anyway, Rudnick's got a fucking
Speaker 1: lot of personalities bouncing around here. So we they're like,
Speaker 1: get to that apartment of Teresa Fish. Maybe Rudnick's hiding there.
Speaker 1: Carees checks with Rowlins if she's okay, because he's like,
Speaker 1: you're always like ten steps ahead of me and you're
Speaker 1: pukin and what's going on? And She's like, I had
Speaker 1: a bad bagel, And I'm like, is that a thing?
Speaker 1: Like a bad bagel? I had a bad I mean
Speaker 1: it's like I had a bad piece of fish, Like
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say, well, maybe there was like salmon, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, or the cream cheese was off.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And she's like I'm fine, and so yeah, she's classic
Speaker 1: blowing Careesy or anyone that's concerned with her off.
Speaker 4: You really just said blow without the off for a while.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you said she's really blowing creasy off. Didn't
Speaker 1: even realize wishful thinking for greasy am I right, uh,
Speaker 1: But this landlord at this apartment building is.
Speaker 4: Like classic New York neighbor. She's like, I haven't seen
Speaker 4: Terry around. I miss her.
Speaker 1: She's a perfect tenant, you know. She's given them all
Speaker 1: the scoop and they're like, oh, have you talked to
Speaker 1: her lately?
Speaker 4: And they're like, what is that? She goes, what is
Speaker 4: that a joke?
Speaker 1: Terry's mute and deaf, So she lets them in the floor.
Speaker 1: There's a part of the floor in the apartment that's
Speaker 1: been like newly laid with like linoleum tiles and people
Speaker 1: don't fuck with yeah, yeah, and it just looks well.
Speaker 1: First of all, there's also another closet of wigs. And
Speaker 1: then also Amanda peels up the tile like without like
Speaker 1: any kind of tool. She just peels it up like
Speaker 1: it's just been like laid there and not really like
Speaker 1: glued down. And there's the first piece she pulls up.
Speaker 1: She can see red strands of hair and cutting marks
Speaker 1: on the original wood floor, so kind of looking like
Speaker 1: something really fucked up went down in that little apartment
Speaker 1: and that old lady was not hearing it. Back at
Speaker 1: the Morgue, Warner's helping them find more of ruck at
Speaker 1: the more.
Speaker 4: At the more, Warner's.
Speaker 1: Helping them find more Rudnick Sketchiness, a fifty year old
Speaker 1: on housewoman who died a few months back. Rudnick says
Speaker 1: there's no match for her fingerprints or DNA, but Warner
Speaker 1: got a match and her name is Teresa Fish, so
Speaker 1: he obviously chose this woman's identity, said she was unidentified
Speaker 1: so that he could send her to like what's that
Speaker 1: field called. There's like a field where they send all
Speaker 1: the unidentified victims.
Speaker 4: In New York.
Speaker 1: And Warner's like identity thief, rapist, murderer. The damage he's
Speaker 1: done to the Emmy's office, she is really pissed. She's like,
Speaker 1: not my office, Like this is my integrity, this is
Speaker 1: my profession.
Speaker 4: She's mad, mad mad.
Speaker 1: We also find out that Rudnick beat out Warner for
Speaker 1: this job. Benson's like, you should reapply, and it's like,
Speaker 1: why don't guys just give it to her? Why don't
Speaker 1: you just not do another application?
Speaker 2: Even how good is Rudnick that they wouldn't have picked Melinda,
Speaker 2: Like she's so good at her job, and.
Speaker 1: I know I have to believe it's like tim Ortuoni
Speaker 1: was doing like a movie or like right or like.
Speaker 2: To me, I was like, of course, it's racism. Of course,
Speaker 2: Melinda's more qualified for the job, and they gave it
Speaker 2: to a white rich man.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: Also, I guess if Warren ltt knew he was going
Speaker 1: to do this kind of storyline, he wasn't going to
Speaker 1: have Melinda do that.
Speaker 4: That would honestly be the worst thing.
Speaker 2: If any showrunner or anyone decides to come in and
Speaker 2: make Melinda Warner evil.
Speaker 1: I would actually commit a great make her do anything wrong,
Speaker 1: make her like run a test without saying like, I mean,
Speaker 1: she's got she's by the book. Well, she's done some
Speaker 1: favorites for Benson. She ran her HIV test privately. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: but then the brother DNA but then she was pissed
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah yeah, don't put me in that possession. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I got the.
Speaker 4: Secret AIDS test.
Speaker 1: She has to rerun the Prince and the DNA on
Speaker 1: every case that called runn has touched. So she's not
Speaker 1: happy and she does all that work. Well, why don't
Speaker 1: we just give her the fucking promotion? Huh. So Rollins
Speaker 1: is at the Teresa Fish apartment now with CSU technician
Speaker 1: Colin Bennett. He's the British. There's so many CSU techs
Speaker 1: in this episode, Colin Bennett's the British one who's been
Speaker 1: in like four episodes. That's the character's name, The British one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's I remember him being like, oh yes, a piece
Speaker 1: of rupe. Like he's just like he's like the only
Speaker 1: British one I think we've ever had. And he and
Speaker 1: Rollins dig into some more linoleum and underneath dried blood.
Speaker 1: So he did not clean up very well. He just
Speaker 1: decided to lay littoleum instead of bleaching.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: But then Careese shows up to whisker off to beautiful Syracuse.
Speaker 1: Rodnick just got picked up for shoplifting. When they get
Speaker 1: there to the police apartment in Syracuse, they've let rutne
Speaker 1: It go.
Speaker 4: They're like, he was crying that his mom was dying.
Speaker 1: He said he had a flight to catch and he
Speaker 1: stole a box of coffee nips, Like we didn't, you know.
Speaker 1: So they tracked down a bus that's headed for Buffalo,
Speaker 1: and they meet it when it arrives because I guess
Speaker 1: they figure that's like the only way out of Syracuse,
Speaker 1: and he's obviously trying to get to camp up even
Speaker 1: though he doesn't have a passport. And especially after nine
Speaker 1: to eleven, you do need a passport to get into Canada.
Speaker 1: But she spots Rudnick getting off the bus in drag
Speaker 1: pink floral pink cardigan, you know, and he's got a
Speaker 1: little bouncy, curly brunette wig on, So yet another one
Speaker 1: of his personalities that he probably wires money to. At
Speaker 1: Buffalo PD, the head guy there goes, so, you got
Speaker 1: a cross dressing rapist murder in your emmy's office, you
Speaker 1: New York You guys down in New York City really
Speaker 1: are progressive, which I.
Speaker 4: Thought was really funny.
Speaker 1: Like they didn't hire him because they knew he was
Speaker 1: a cross dressing murderer. When they found Rudnick, he had
Speaker 1: sixty four thousand dollars of cash on him. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: why is he shoplifting coffee nips?
Speaker 4: Like that is wild?
Speaker 1: Like you're on the run, dog, Like why do you
Speaker 1: feel the need to get like the rush of shoplifting
Speaker 1: and be rich?
Speaker 4: People don't think the rules apply to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Rudnick is in a holding cell and they
Speaker 1: have made him remove his wig or he has done
Speaker 1: it by choice, but he is no longer wearing his
Speaker 1: well because I think would be.
Speaker 2: More respectful of this was someone that felt better in
Speaker 2: women's clothes.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't trus He's not doing it because
Speaker 4: of his identity.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, he's doing it, so we don't have
Speaker 1: to respect him. Yeah, exactly, he can say his wig
Speaker 1: is bad. Exactly, he is wearing that way. He's not
Speaker 1: on a journey of identity. In the Morgue, Warner has
Speaker 1: finished the autopsy on Susie Frayin and she says the
Speaker 1: cause of death is exanguination. But for her, he did
Speaker 1: dismember her post mortem, and she probably died from damage
Speaker 1: to the federal artery because she can't find the wound,
Speaker 1: and the upper thigh where the federal artery is is
Speaker 1: like the only piece that's missing from her body. So
Speaker 1: she also confirms twist Susie was pregnant. There was about
Speaker 1: to be a little Gregory Yates running around. Maybe Yates
Speaker 1: maybe running kind of did us a favor there. We
Speaker 1: don't need a baby Yates. This delusional woman and Yates
Speaker 1: making a baby together. That's nobody's society needs. So now
Speaker 1: we cut to a hilarious road trip movie which is
Speaker 1: Careese at Rolins and Rudnick in the backseat like it's
Speaker 1: fully Crossroads but SVU style. I'm loving it. Rudnick can't
Speaker 1: believe they're driving back to Manhattan and they're like, dog,
Speaker 1: didn't you just take the bus here? And they're like,
Speaker 1: we can't believe you skipped out on a two million
Speaker 1: dollar bail And he's like, I can't believe they let
Speaker 1: me go after accusing me of two murders. But if
Speaker 1: I was out on bail, why wouldn't I run? And
Speaker 1: then they're like, well, we found your car, and he goes,
Speaker 1: We'll give yourself a gold star, Like I really love
Speaker 1: the way this guy plays Rudnick, Like every line is
Speaker 1: he's so good. Yeah, he's so good, and he's not
Speaker 1: scared and yeah, and there is like I mean Coreese
Speaker 1: says it later, there is something almost like charming about him,
Speaker 1: like you can't imagine that he's this like six zero
Speaker 1: killer that, by the way, killed people, cut people up
Speaker 1: while they were alive, like horrible. Meanwhile, they find Rudnick's
Speaker 1: burnt out car and they find a little bit of
Speaker 1: blood in it, and now the Crossroads gang has stopped
Speaker 1: at a diner. Rudnick is hard judging rawlins and carees
Speaker 1: because they're eating like full American brack, like bacon, eggs,
Speaker 1: hash browns, probably like a waffle or pancakes are on there.
Speaker 4: I couldn't make it out.
Speaker 1: So he nibbles on toast while they're just like fully
Speaker 1: chowing down on this like breakfast. And I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: sure they drove all night to get to, like driving
Speaker 1: around to Syracuse Buffalo.
Speaker 4: They're hungry. I don't like let them meet what they want.
Speaker 1: He asks to use you know, the little boy's room,
Speaker 1: and he's in there for a while. So then Careesy
Speaker 1: goes in. Normally I would think, oh, he's escaped, he's
Speaker 1: gone out of a window, and they're gonna find him, like,
Speaker 1: you know, running in his little dress down the street.
Speaker 1: But Rudnik is actually just in there talking to himself,
Speaker 1: and he's like going, they think I killed that woman
Speaker 1: and cut her up? Oh terrible quiet doctor good Man,
Speaker 1: Like he's saying all this weird, just like talking to himself,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't say anything incriminating. Rita shows up at
Speaker 1: Barbara's and she's got an excuse for everything. Rachel's hair
Speaker 1: is in the apartment because he did the autopsy. Susie's
Speaker 1: blood is in the car because he gave her a
Speaker 1: ride and she got a paper cut. They were friends,
Speaker 1: but she's really there to a wheel and deal, and
Speaker 1: she's it's like, your bosses do not want a big trial,
Speaker 1: and Emmy being accused of being a serial killer, like
Speaker 1: that's a bad look. He'll plead to one count of
Speaker 1: tampering with evidence and one count of unlawful disposal of
Speaker 1: a body and this all goes away, and Barbara's like misdemeanors, Babe,
Speaker 1: he killed three women, and two of them he cut
Speaker 1: up when.
Speaker 4: They were alive.
Speaker 1: He goes, I can offer manslaughter twenty years for each
Speaker 1: count served concurrently, which is still not enough. You'd get
Speaker 1: out in twenty years. Yeah, So Rita lays it out
Speaker 1: a public defender could get him that, and he's paying
Speaker 1: for more than that, which is really she's truly laying
Speaker 1: out like the truth about everything with the law and crimes,
Speaker 1: like the criminal justice system, like if you pay for more,
Speaker 1: if you have enough money, you truly, I think, can
Speaker 1: appeal and appeal and appeal until like at the very
Speaker 1: least your sentence gets reduced if you don't just get
Speaker 1: fully off because of a technicality that they find on
Speaker 1: like Trial five.
Speaker 4: You know it's wild.
Speaker 1: Money. Money does make the fucking legal world go round,
Speaker 1: for sure, and Barbara says, well, I hope there's I
Speaker 1: hope there's enough money in the world, Rita. He tries
Speaker 1: to give her like an ethical, you know, guilt trip,
Speaker 1: and Rita says, all of your cases are fucked if
Speaker 1: you get a conviction, starting with all of Yates's. And
Speaker 1: that's true. Barbara calls Rollins and wants her to defy
Speaker 1: live and go see Yates by herself. We need his
Speaker 1: help to put Carl Rudnick away. So now Yates is
Speaker 1: telling Rollins that he was worried about Susie. He says,
Speaker 1: Susie believed that she could blackmail Rudnick with the photo,
Speaker 1: so he'd work to free Greg. And Yates knew it
Speaker 1: was dangerous, but she wouldn't listen this plant plan. I
Speaker 1: don't believe. I don't believe Susie came up with all this.
Speaker 1: I believe he told her to do it. He knew
Speaker 1: she was pregnant. She had a slightly different scent, kind
Speaker 1: of like you do. How far along are you? And
Speaker 1: Rollins looks grossed out, And you know, whenever I see
Speaker 1: anybody puking and there's not kind of like a definitive
Speaker 1: answer about it. You can always assume they're pregnant. I
Speaker 1: pretty much guessed did at every show I've ever watched.
Speaker 1: So we got to this very quick scene at the
Speaker 1: DAPA Bag three, which is Rollin's just at home with
Speaker 1: two positive pregnan and see tests and she's like, huh, well,
Speaker 1: that's something I am for sure pregnant. And as we know,
Speaker 1: she's recently been in sort of like a quick fling
Speaker 1: with Nicka Morrow.
Speaker 4: We don't really know what's going on.
Speaker 1: At arraignment, Barbara is adding Susie Frain's murder to the charges,
Speaker 1: and then who barges in? But you can in not
Speaker 1: this crazy psycho affording the two biggest shark lawyers in
Speaker 1: New York City, I mean dream team. Honestly, getting either
Speaker 1: one of them is like a ton, and he's like, sorry, Rita,
Speaker 1: the state doubled down, so I thought fit to do
Speaker 1: so myself or whatever. So he's got now two Sharks
Speaker 1: on his team. The judge revokes bail because obviously this
Speaker 1: dude does not respect bail, and both lawyers try to
Speaker 1: file motions at the same time to separate the charges,
Speaker 1: and it is kind of like slapsticky, like they both
Speaker 1: hold up their.
Speaker 4: Little blue papers.
Speaker 1: Then they look at each other like me too, like
Speaker 1: they're both trying to do it at the same time.
Speaker 1: So in the squadroom vending machine area again, Carees calls
Speaker 1: Rollin's out on being pregnant and is like, so have
Speaker 1: you told anyone yet, like cause I don't know Rollin's
Speaker 1: has Like I mean, Carees has a bunch of sisters,
Speaker 1: so I guess he just knows when people are pregnant.
Speaker 1: And she says, it's not your business, but it's not Nicks. Okay,
Speaker 1: so very important to let everybody know it's not Nicks,
Speaker 1: but we don't know whose it is. At a bar,
Speaker 1: Barba is pounding whiskey when Benson joins and Rudnick's team
Speaker 1: was able to separate the charges, which is not good.
Speaker 1: They want it to seem like he's a serial killer,
Speaker 1: not that she like he killed one person. He says
Speaker 1: they need the thigh, but it's gone, and they're like,
Speaker 1: let's go with Susie. That's the strongest case because I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: one's twelve years old, fifteen years old, the other one's
Speaker 1: the body was so washed up like that. This is
Speaker 1: probably the one that has the most evidence in it
Speaker 1: cuts a court. Benson's on the stand, b Canon, you
Speaker 1: know our pal Delaney Williams, friend of the pod. He's
Speaker 1: trying to act like Susie was framing Rudnick to try
Speaker 1: to get Greg Yates out, and that they plotted it
Speaker 1: all out during this conjugal visit. So uh oh, word
Speaker 1: of the conjugal visit is out and dramatic music slow
Speaker 1: pushed in on Benson at the end of this scene.
Speaker 1: That kind of symbolizes like fuck is Rudnick winning? Like
Speaker 1: what's happening now? Rollins is on the stand and she's
Speaker 1: explaining how Susie was helping with the investigation, and Buchanan
Speaker 1: is trying some shit but Barbara's not having it. And
Speaker 1: then Rita gets on her about visiting Yates in prison
Speaker 1: so much like is that common practice for a female detective?
Speaker 1: And it's like Rita, not very feminist of you, Like
Speaker 1: why couldn't a female detective go visit a suspect alone?
Speaker 1: I mean, Clarice Starling's been doing it since nineteen ninety one. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I have to bring up silence of the lambs as
Speaker 1: much as I can. It's like in my contract, she's
Speaker 1: trying to make it seem like Rollins was getting played
Speaker 1: by Yates all along, and that Yates is behind all
Speaker 1: of this. Outside the courthouse, Benson checks in on Rollins,
Speaker 1: and Rollins, you know, drops the bomb that she's pregnant
Speaker 1: and it's not Nick's. She wants everyone to know I
Speaker 1: am not carrying a tiny, swarthy baby in my womb.
Speaker 1: Benson looks shocked. Rollins begs to work as long as possible,
Speaker 1: like you know we always talk about it's like, girl,
Speaker 1: take a fucking break, Like you know, she's like eight
Speaker 1: months pregnant, Like let me get to that crime scene.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think we all know this storyline
Speaker 1: is happening because Kelly Gettish is pregnant in real life.
Speaker 4: So she's like, please let me work.
Speaker 1: Like, don't report it because Benson's like, girl, they're going
Speaker 1: to put you on desk duty. And then they just
Speaker 1: have a little chat about how single momming is hard,
Speaker 1: because you know, Benson's been a single mom for like
Speaker 1: a few months, and she's you know, just telling Rollin's
Speaker 1: that she's going to need help, and she's like well,
Speaker 1: my mom might be moving into the city, and you know,
Speaker 1: spoiler alert, that does not work out so well for her.
Speaker 1: Back on trial, Melinda is on the stand now and
Speaker 1: she's explaining how Susie Frain died and how the thigh
Speaker 1: that is missing is likely where the fatal injury occurred.
Speaker 1: Rudnick had defensive wounds on his hands, but Melinda can't
Speaker 1: say how those happened, and Buchanan is trying to argue that, well,
Speaker 1: you can't explain how Susie Frain got her injuries either,
Speaker 1: and Melinda.
Speaker 4: Is heated, like, well, two people walked.
Speaker 1: Into that house and he walked out and she did not,
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm not an idiot. Then Buchan, in
Speaker 1: this piece of shit, tries to frame it that Melinda
Speaker 1: is mad because Rudnick got the job over her, and
Speaker 1: it's like, how dare you? How dare you question Melinda's
Speaker 1: integrity and that she might have that she might be
Speaker 1: testifying against him because he beat her out for a job.
Speaker 1: That is not our girl, Melinda. And Barbara then plants
Speaker 1: the scene with the jury that Rudnick's wounds could very
Speaker 1: well have been self inflicted, like not that hard to
Speaker 1: just slit yourself on the hand a couple of times
Speaker 1: and on the arms. In the elevator, Caresy is kissing
Speaker 1: Barba's ass, but Barba is worried, like something is coming.
Speaker 1: He's like, I've never seen a defense so cocky. Rudnick
Speaker 1: is so calm, and Careese's like, wow, there's no way
Speaker 1: in hell Rudnick's going.
Speaker 4: To take the stand, and like it's a pattern this
Speaker 4: whole episode.
Speaker 1: Carizik's being like, well, it's this and it's never that,
Speaker 1: Like we're not gonna find anything in this townhouse.
Speaker 4: Come check out what we found in the townhouse.
Speaker 1: Like so that he goes, there's no way blind in
Speaker 1: because they had cute banter. I know, yeah, there's no
Speaker 1: way that let Dnick take the stand. Oops, look what
Speaker 1: you accidentally manifested? Crazy, Look what you made me do.
Speaker 1: Back in court, Defense calls call Rudnick to the stand.
Speaker 1: So he is taking the stand and he tells the
Speaker 1: jury that what happened was Susie attacked him with a
Speaker 1: kitchen knife and he killed her in self defense. Yates
Speaker 1: had brainwashed Susie into thinking that Rudnick was framing him.
Speaker 1: She accused Rudnick of tampering with all the autopsies. So
Speaker 1: he made the mistake of laughing, and she went crazy
Speaker 1: and attacked him with a huge kitchen knife, and Rita
Speaker 1: was like, what'd your mind? Stepping down and demonstrating what happened,
Speaker 1: and then he has this like long process of removing
Speaker 1: his jacket, rolling up the sleeves, and then Benson clocks
Speaker 1: a bunch of like cuts on his arms. Rudnick re
Speaker 1: enacts what happened, and you know, he gets very emotional.
Speaker 1: He's like shaking, and it's a performance for the jury.
Speaker 1: It feels like he's like like recalling the moment that
Speaker 1: he took a life. And it's like, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't buy it, but he wants the jury too, really bad.
Speaker 1: Then he says, when he saw the blood, he knew
Speaker 1: he'd hit the femeral artery. He blacked out. How convenient
Speaker 1: And when he came to it was too late to
Speaker 1: save her. What a convenient blackout? It just happened over
Speaker 1: the course of the time that she was bleeding out.
Speaker 1: And then and also, what would make you blackout blood?
Speaker 1: You're an emmy? Like why you know, it's not like
Speaker 1: I faint when I see blood, you know, so he
Speaker 1: didn't go to the hospital because he knew no one
Speaker 1: would believe him, so he just tried to get rid
Speaker 1: of the body because he felt that the system was
Speaker 1: already against him. He went on the run as a
Speaker 1: woman because he said everyone was looking for Karl, no
Speaker 1: one was looking for Carla. But it's like, that doesn't
Speaker 1: really explain why you have house multiple apartments in different
Speaker 1: women's names.
Speaker 4: But anyway, Barba's turn.
Speaker 1: He's like, but you would also know how to mimic
Speaker 1: defensive wounds and cut up and dispose of a body,
Speaker 1: and Carl's like, yes, unfortunately, those skills come with my job.
Speaker 1: But then Barbara has the receipts home depot where Rudnick
Speaker 1: bought a saw and bolt cutters to chop up Susie
Speaker 1: at eleven fifty on the night she was murdered. Iley
Speaker 1: can't believe how close all this is to the real crime. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they really took a lot, but then they yeah a lot, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure people loved because you're going to get
Speaker 1: into it. But the crime you talk about was like
Speaker 1: the thing everyone was talking about at this time.
Speaker 4: Everything you know.
Speaker 1: So Rudnick goes, yes, luckily I was able to make
Speaker 1: it there before closing time. Like, he's not denying that
Speaker 1: after his blackout he calmly went to home depot and
Speaker 1: bought the tools to dismember a body.
Speaker 4: And he's very.
Speaker 1: Like, no, no, no, I was just chopping down a tree. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's for the city. Yeah, he's audacious, this man. But
Speaker 1: then Rudnick is like, it is my most fervent wish
Speaker 1: that we would find the thigh because that would prove
Speaker 1: my claims are true. That would prove you know, the
Speaker 1: angle and everything would prove like his story about her
Speaker 1: attacking him first is true. He admits to cutting her up,
Speaker 1: but maintains that the murder was self defense. So outside
Speaker 1: the courthouse, Oh, I love this look. It's like a
Speaker 1: chilly New York early evening, wet streets, like maybe after
Speaker 1: a little rain shower, And I'm loving that. It looks
Speaker 1: like they all just got out of work and then
Speaker 1: maybe all going to go get a little drink. And
Speaker 1: I really I can like smell what that scene smells like.
Speaker 1: Careesi again is trying to pump up Barba. He's always like,
Speaker 1: you did great in there, Baba, Like he's like Barba's
Speaker 1: number one cheer litter and he thinks Barba's like I
Speaker 1: bombed actually, And Careese and Rollins are telling them how
Speaker 1: Rudnick talks to himself all the time and he records
Speaker 1: all his autopsies. Maybe it's worth going to listen to
Speaker 1: them and see if he slipped up somewhere and like
Speaker 1: said something weird. So Careese's like, hey, Rollins, let's make
Speaker 1: a date of it, and like, let's go listen to
Speaker 1: some creepy tapes together. So at the tape date, Rollins
Speaker 1: is listening to Rudnick explained that redheads are less susceptible
Speaker 1: to anesthesia.
Speaker 4: Have we talked about this before?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I googled it and it
Speaker 1: is a thing. That's the National Institute of Health says quote.
Speaker 1: Research has shown that people with red hair perceive pain
Speaker 1: differently than others. They may be more sensitive to certain
Speaker 1: types of pain and can require higher doses of some
Speaker 1: pain killing medications. However, studies suggest that their general pain
Speaker 1: tolerance may be higher.
Speaker 4: That's interesting. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: It's like people that are trying to be like gingers
Speaker 1: or other.
Speaker 3: Like I know.
Speaker 1: Wild, I've never I guess I'm trying to think of, Like,
Speaker 1: any I guess next time I see Bridger, I'll be like,
Speaker 1: I'll slash them with a knife and see if he cries.
Speaker 1: But hold on, Careesy has got something on one of
Speaker 1: these tapes. So now we are watching video. Remember what
Speaker 1: we flagged for follow up that Barbara was barb I
Speaker 1: just called it Barbara. I heard that Barbara was questioning
Speaker 1: Rudnick and saying, oh, just a reminder, everything in here
Speaker 1: is being taped.
Speaker 4: After he lawyered up.
Speaker 1: Barba leaves the room and Rudnick is alone and completely
Speaker 1: forgets that he was told five seconds ago that the
Speaker 1: whole room's being taped. He's talking to himself and he's
Speaker 1: saying Rachel was a crackhore with green nail polish and
Speaker 1: a proximity to Yates as victims, Lena, no one will
Speaker 1: believe Yates. Susie is my only problem and she's a
Speaker 1: dumb ass, basically, is what he's saying in her in
Speaker 1: his in this little confession that they're catching not only
Speaker 1: on tape but on video, like they're catching him saying
Speaker 1: all this, and then there's they cut to a shot
Speaker 1: of Rudnik watching this and oof Rita and Buchanan are
Speaker 1: positioned right behind him, and you just see them turn
Speaker 1: their heads towards each other, look at each other, and
Speaker 1: they're both.
Speaker 4: Kind of like, well, I help the check. I help
Speaker 4: the check clears, you know.
Speaker 1: And Rudnick goes on to say in the video that
Speaker 1: he'll have to kill Susie just like the others, kill
Speaker 1: them all, Carl, whatever it takes.
Speaker 4: So that's what he says. Pretty fucked.
Speaker 1: Uh, you wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened in
Speaker 1: focking real life.
Speaker 4: They're all watching this in the judges chamber, but.
Speaker 2: You know this happens probably on movie sets and TV
Speaker 2: show Oh yeah, like you really have to be so.
Speaker 1: On it and know what's up totally totally. People are listening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I remember I've worked on shows where people
Speaker 1: just go to the bathroom and like pee with their
Speaker 1: MIC's on, and like the producers can like hear them pissing. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of hot mic moments, but
Speaker 1: but you know, Meredith's ahoor she's fucked up in New
Speaker 1: York City another iconic hot mic moment. I would say
Speaker 1: that goes right up there with the hot like moment
Speaker 1: that you're gonna talk about. So they're all watching this
Speaker 1: in the judges chambers, and Buchanan tries to argue it's inadmissible,
Speaker 1: and the judge is like, I bet you'd love that.
Speaker 4: To be true.
Speaker 1: And he's like, what walk me through the chain of custody,
Speaker 1: like how did you find that? And Buchan's trying to
Speaker 1: argue like, well, this is Brady like this. If this
Speaker 1: was available, it should have been turned over to us.
Speaker 1: And Barba's like, dog, you had this tape the whole time.
Speaker 1: You just stopped watching. We just kept watching, and the
Speaker 1: judge agrees, and Carl is this is where you see
Speaker 1: Carl's mad side.
Speaker 4: He's pissed.
Speaker 1: He's like, you had the recording the entire time and
Speaker 1: you didn't know. And then he moves for new council.
Speaker 1: But the judge is like, whatever you want, dude, but
Speaker 1: this is admissible no matter who was representing you. So
Speaker 1: now in Rudnick is changing his plea, oh, he's changing
Speaker 1: it to guilty, and Susie Frame's murder on Rachel's murder,
Speaker 1: he goes, I'm afraid I'm guilty on that one as well,
Speaker 1: like she just has such a funny little way of talking.
Speaker 1: And then Barbara, Oh my god, I did it again.
Speaker 1: Barbara withdraws the charge for Lena, and I'm not sure why.
Speaker 1: I guess maybe they don't have enough evidence because it
Speaker 1: could have been him Mary Yates and it was fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago. But I wish there was justice for Lena,
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure her family in Switzerland wants to know
Speaker 1: what the fuck happened to her. Her mom. Also, it's like,
Speaker 1: get with it. I just feel like no one cares. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one. The letters like, yeah one, no one reported
Speaker 1: her missing. Like I guess our relationships different times in
Speaker 1: our s view or yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: I guess family dynamics are different. But it was like, right,
Speaker 2: I guess just a letter's all it took. I don't
Speaker 2: know totally. So, but there's a new catfishing thing coming
Speaker 2: out on NETFLI I watched the trailer and this girls
Speaker 2: catfish for like ten years or something.
Speaker 4: Sweet Bobby, Oh, okay, I listened to the popcast. I
Speaker 4: listened to the podcast.
Speaker 2: Okay, but it's like a woman, a cool woman, and
Speaker 2: it ruined her life and yeah, in England or something.
Speaker 1: It's wild. But again, it's kind of like you were
Speaker 1: dating somebody for ten years that you didn't ever meet
Speaker 1: in person.
Speaker 4: That's so crazy.
Speaker 1: I know, you know, like I I understand she seems
Speaker 1: like a normal person, so you're kind of like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: but then even then nothing like, I don't know, it's.
Speaker 4: It's it's truly wild.
Speaker 1: But Yates back at prison, so this will be after
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Lina stuff. Back in prison, Yates
Speaker 1: is also pissed. He's like, so he just gets to
Speaker 1: get away with Lina's murder and Rollins is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's getting twenty five to life for the other two,
Speaker 1: so you two might be roomies. One day, he's telling
Speaker 1: her strangulation was the cause of death and so maybe
Speaker 1: that's why they couldn't do Lina's case because like cause
Speaker 1: of death wasn't clear because Rollins brings up that there
Speaker 1: was also a skull fracture and Yates very confidently goes,
Speaker 1: the skull fracture was post mortem, and he goes, I
Speaker 1: would think maybe it was his first time he screwed up.
Speaker 1: He had to call someone more experienced to help. And
Speaker 1: then Rollins is like, what did this person tell him
Speaker 1: to do? It's really creepy. This is very doctor Lecter,
Speaker 1: and I wrote, this is so fucked very silence of
Speaker 1: the Lambs. That's what I wrote in my notes. He goes, well,
Speaker 1: the person probably would have advised him to keep Lena
Speaker 1: alive as long as possible. Such a waste to have
Speaker 1: her die so quickly. And then he believes when one
Speaker 1: life ends, another begins. So just like she's bringing a
Speaker 1: life into this world and he lost his fiance and child,
Speaker 1: and he feels a connection with Rowlins. It's like, ew
Speaker 1: are you trying to tell Rollins that maybe like the
Speaker 1: spirit of your murdered baby is like going into Rollins's
Speaker 1: new baby, because yuck. That for Rollins, this is a
Speaker 1: bridge too far. She leaves and he's like you'll be
Speaker 1: back and I'll be here. And the last scene is,
Speaker 1: I mean, they really give it to us. It's so funny.
Speaker 1: The last scene is Yates sitting alone in the prison
Speaker 1: cafeteria because I bet even the other prisoners are like, no,
Speaker 1: not that guy, like the Long Island serial killer. I'm
Speaker 1: good and up while his old pal Rudnik and he's like,
Speaker 1: may I join you? And he's like, Rudnick is like,
Speaker 1: we have a lot to catch up on and that's
Speaker 1: Dick wolf.
Speaker 2: Baby, and not even the end of the series. I
Speaker 2: think we're gonna keep closing this out. I know, wait,
Speaker 2: a double episode.
Speaker 1: It Yeah, I hope that didn't take too too long, Guys.
Speaker 1: I tried to be a little bit brief. I didn't
Speaker 1: include every single piece of dialogue because I was trying
Speaker 1: to get through two. Uh no, you got all the creeps,
Speaker 1: the yeah, the creepy highlights. Well let's go. Let's go
Speaker 1: to the most famous case of our generation. All right,
Speaker 1: So this is obviously Robert Durst. I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it changed everything, and I feel like, I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's lots of different en elements, but this is what
Speaker 2: I think pushed a true crime documentary series. Everyone's chasing
Speaker 2: this high and that's why they stretch them out, like
Speaker 2: they're just stretching them out, hoping like maybe, well maybe
Speaker 2: there'll be an end. And most of them pale short
Speaker 2: in comparison, or yeah, they paale like comparison. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: come up short. Both both work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're pale and short. Yeah, just like
Speaker 1: Carl Rudnick, a delicate pale man. They just like I
Speaker 1: bet you knew, like crime docs now are like hiring
Speaker 1: people that specifically listen to like every single second of tape,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like because this is a
Speaker 1: wild one. It is and I feel like everyone wants
Speaker 1: to catch someone on camera.
Speaker 4: It's so bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, you know, the Jinks was huge and
Speaker 2: now the Jinks too just came out this year.
Speaker 4: Oh I got to watch there's a whole new sere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have not watched yet, but it's about like
Speaker 2: try like trial posts, all the jail stuff kind of
Speaker 2: and I am so it's so funny that he another
Speaker 2: one happened.
Speaker 4: But if you're wondering, like why did this?
Speaker 2: So for those who don't know, Robert or is like
Speaker 2: comes from a billionaire real estate scion New York family,
Speaker 2: like billions eight billion dollars. I think the family was
Speaker 2: worth who So to me, it's like, all right, you've
Speaker 2: you've murdered all these people, You've gotten away with it.
Speaker 2: You're on the lamb. But like, why are you agreeing
Speaker 2: to this doc? Like why would you agree to this
Speaker 2: doc at all? You've gotten away with You've gotten away.
Speaker 2: I'll get into details.
Speaker 1: So the reason he did the documentary is because in
Speaker 1: twenty ten, I don't know if you know this. But
Speaker 1: Ryan Gosling played a fictionalized version of Durst with Kristen
Speaker 1: Dunst plays Kathy his you know, uh sadly murdered wife.
Speaker 4: And I watched part of it on a plane. Crazy.
Speaker 4: I didn't even heard of it.
Speaker 1: It was yeah, it was like I it like I
Speaker 1: landed before it was over. But like I watched part
Speaker 1: of it on a plane and was like, oh interesting.
Speaker 1: So then so the movie, so it's them, and it's
Speaker 1: Mark and Katie in it, but it's like it's clearly
Speaker 1: Kathy and like Robert Durst, and so he wanted to
Speaker 1: get his point of the story.
Speaker 2: He didn't like it, so he didn't like the Hollywood
Speaker 2: got to tell his story. There's too It's like People
Speaker 2: Magazine said that he didn't like the way he came off,
Speaker 2: so he was like, I need to do this doc
Speaker 2: But according to New York New York Times, he actually
Speaker 2: liked the movie and he reached out to the same director.
Speaker 2: So Andrew Jureki, who directed this Gostling thing, did the documentaries.
Speaker 2: So Robert Durst reached out to him, And.
Speaker 1: The two sources right are.
Speaker 2: It's either he didn't like his portrayal and was like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna set things straight, or he's like I like
Speaker 2: this guy, I like what he did here.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna tell my story and set things straight. Like I'm
Speaker 2: not really sure, and this is gonna be a precedent.
Speaker 2: Like I was really nervous to kind of dive into
Speaker 2: this because it's such a huge case. There's so much
Speaker 2: information and none of you know, he's the dates are tough,
Speaker 2: everything's intertwined and all the sources are like it happened
Speaker 2: on Octube B eight, the no October ninth or this
Speaker 2: and not. So there's just like a lot of inconsistencies
Speaker 2: and just.
Speaker 4: Changing itself and you know a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's tough to like kind of report on
Speaker 2: something that a lot of you probably Yeah, I have
Speaker 2: already seen the part two of the Jinks.
Speaker 1: Yes, we want to hear the way you tell it, though,
Speaker 1: you know, because like, honestly, we don't have a six
Speaker 1: hour documentary time to go through this case or we
Speaker 1: would give you that information.
Speaker 4: We got to cut this shit down.
Speaker 2: I know, it was like, but it's just, you know,
Speaker 2: it's intimidating and overwhelming, and I you know, like to
Speaker 2: do a good job.
Speaker 4: But I'm not basing any of this on the jinks.
Speaker 2: I did all research, like okay, but research because anyone
Speaker 2: can go watch that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and so.
Speaker 2: But Robert Durst gave this documentary crew everything, access to
Speaker 2: his private papers. He urged friends to talk to the
Speaker 2: crew and gave them more than twenty hours of filmed interviews.
Speaker 2: He actually even for the movie with Ryan Gosling. He
Speaker 2: offered a commentary track on the DVD release.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And he doesn't confess, but he goes he he like,
Speaker 2: he goes, oh, yeah, we did get into a fight
Speaker 2: that night. I dragged her by her hair and hit
Speaker 2: her and she left, but I didn't kill her. Like
Speaker 2: he agrees to some that's happening.
Speaker 4: Oh my god. He admits to.
Speaker 1: Like being a bad guy but not being a killer. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he did a DVD thing. So we're going
Speaker 1: all the way a way. You can get a DVD
Speaker 1: of All Good Things and you can hear commentary by
Speaker 1: Robert Durs.
Speaker 4: Maybe we can find it that's he recorded it in.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's wild, okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in this case, it's just like it's so sad,
Speaker 2: it was so long ago. Okay, So January thirty first,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, Kathy McCormick vanishes at the age of
Speaker 2: twenty nine. And this is the night that she attended
Speaker 2: a party at her friend's house GILBERTA great name, GILBERTA
Speaker 2: and a Jimmy okay, and she said something chilling to
Speaker 2: her friend before she drove home in her Mercedes Benz.
Speaker 2: She said, promise me, Gilberta, if something happens, you will
Speaker 2: check it out. I'm afraid of what Bobby will do.
Speaker 2: And that's according to the New York Times, and that's
Speaker 2: nothing new. I feel like women are always like, if
Speaker 2: something happens, it's him, and.
Speaker 3: They have that.
Speaker 1: In an episode, Lena goes, if something happens to me,
Speaker 1: Carl did it borrowing a lot?
Speaker 4: So I mean so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But because I see Rudnick as such a like
Speaker 1: favorite character, I forget that it is that like I
Speaker 1: always kind of lose sight of it until you were
Speaker 1: like telling it directly to me and I'm.
Speaker 4: Like, oh fuck, this is exact.
Speaker 2: So once she disappears, all eyes are on the husband,
Speaker 2: this Robert Durst, and they own all these skyscrapers.
Speaker 4: Rich guy, rich guy.
Speaker 2: He works for his family for twenty years, but left
Speaker 2: the company in nineteen ninety four when it became clear
Speaker 2: that his younger brother Douglas would take over. Robert's the oldest.
Speaker 2: And this is very Succession as well.
Speaker 1: Like I know people say it's the Murdos, but I
Speaker 1: feel like this family was also an inspiration for Succession. Okay,
Speaker 1: and also the red Stones too, don't they in a
Speaker 1: red Stone I feel like they were in spo for
Speaker 1: it all as wellll which I covered on this podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty positive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He ate really crazy,
Speaker 1: That's what I remember that people I called him the monster,
Speaker 1: and he like just like was a disgusting eater.
Speaker 4: That's what I think about.
Speaker 2: They were married Kathy and Robert for nine years after
Speaker 2: meeting in the fall of nineteen seventy one and moving
Speaker 2: in together quickly January of nineteen seventy two, already moved in.
Speaker 2: And this is another thing with rich people, there's less consequences,
Speaker 2: so divorce doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Like you can get married quick.
Speaker 2: And that's again shown in Succession with Rory Culkins character
Speaker 2: or Karen my bad.
Speaker 4: I know all the Culkins.
Speaker 2: So she was from a lower middle class family on
Speaker 2: Long Island. He's like a richie rich and they had
Speaker 2: a luxurious life, but he also was kind of cheap
Speaker 2: and like didn't live that extravagantly. He also did for
Speaker 2: sort of an abortion, and that's when the marriage descended
Speaker 2: into fighting, affairs and violence, and he said they got
Speaker 2: into an argument and she left their country home for
Speaker 2: their New York City apartment. So that's things. She came
Speaker 2: to the country home, she wanted to be in the city.
Speaker 2: They fight, she leaves five days later is when he
Speaker 2: reports her missing, and the investigators obviously fuck up because
Speaker 2: they only searched Manhattan because he was like, oh, she
Speaker 2: went back to Manhattan and disappeared, so they never even
Speaker 2: searched their country home, so he could have cleared, like
Speaker 2: there could have been evidence in that home, and no
Speaker 2: one searched it. They just like are like, oh, I
Speaker 2: guess she disappeared from her apartment.
Speaker 4: It was sad.
Speaker 2: She was months away from graduating medical school. And he eventually,
Speaker 2: did you know, like I said, admitted that the fight
Speaker 2: got physical. He pushed and shoved her, but did not
Speaker 2: kill her. Their marriage was crumbling and so like divorce
Speaker 2: lawyers were reached out to the marriage is flopping.
Speaker 1: Things aren't doing well, marriages, flopping court records and for
Speaker 1: seeing there's like, you know, who's going to get control
Speaker 1: of real estate?
Speaker 4: And friends and family said that, you know, he did beat.
Speaker 2: Her, and three weeks before she disappeared, he punched her
Speaker 2: and she didn't trust the husband and two friends told
Speaker 2: investigators that she had given them confidential information about Durst
Speaker 2: holdings for safe keeping during the estrangement. Those files were
Speaker 2: later stolen from those people's homes and robberies that occurred
Speaker 2: within a year of the disappearance.
Speaker 1: Whoa like, he's on it, dude. Her neighbor Ruth C.
Speaker 2: Mayer told The New York Times she was gorgeous, smart,
Speaker 2: very sweet, and everybody loved her on the block. And yeah,
Speaker 2: very very sad, and we'll talk more about everything.
Speaker 1: So then he.
Speaker 2: Remarried a woman named Deborah Lee Sheraton, and she was
Speaker 2: a real estate broker and she was with.
Speaker 1: Him until the end.
Speaker 4: Whow all the way till the end.
Speaker 2: So now this next person, So in two thousand, Durst's
Speaker 2: best friend was found.
Speaker 1: Do you think about Fred Durst every time I say Durst, yep, yep,
Speaker 1: And every time I try to talk about this case,
Speaker 1: sometimes I say Fred Durst. People are like, oh really, dude,
Speaker 1: h corn is it corn biscuit? Yeah, like corn lumbiscuit
Speaker 1: committed a crime. And I'm like, okay, I'm sorry Robert Durst. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she did it all for the NIKI.
Speaker 2: In two thousands, best friend was found dead, and of
Speaker 2: course Robert is a suspect, so Susan Berman is his
Speaker 2: longtime friend. And actually it was like this helper folks person,
Speaker 2: an accomplice to Kathy's fucking missing and murder.
Speaker 4: She's she's a pick me, she's about her. I bet
Speaker 4: she was in love with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sorry, like I so anyways, like to the point where
Speaker 2: Robert Durst gave this woman away at her wedding in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four. Key, that's how fucking close they were.
Speaker 2: He gave her thousands of dollars whenever she needed it.
Speaker 2: And she was found dead on Christmas Eve two thousand
Speaker 2: after having been shot execution.
Speaker 4: Style in her la home.
Speaker 2: And like Beverly Hills, her neighbor reported the to authorities
Speaker 2: that her dogs were loose in the yard, the door
Speaker 2: was open, and when the police arrived, they were like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's no fourth century or signs of ransacking or a struggle,
Speaker 2: her purses here, her id, her cash was sitting on
Speaker 2: the kitchen counter, Like, this is not a stranger.
Speaker 1: She let this person in. There's not a struggle, there's
Speaker 1: not a five.
Speaker 2: Like, there was nothing leading it, so you can assume
Speaker 2: it's someone that she knew. Possible motive was that the
Speaker 2: police were planning to speak to Berman about her knowledge
Speaker 2: in Kathy's disappearance. So like Kathy's family never gave up
Speaker 2: on because her body has never been found ever, and
Speaker 2: that's why he's such a monster, like being caught and
Speaker 2: everything obviously is a monster, is a murderer, but also
Speaker 2: just like tell.
Speaker 1: Us where the body is, Yeah, but a lot of
Speaker 1: woods out in Westchester.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, it's been so many decades, it's sad.
Speaker 2: So like her family, though, never gave up on it.
Speaker 2: He was always a suspect. And so they were getting
Speaker 2: more and more evidence and they were going to talk
Speaker 2: to Berman. And so the prosecution believes that Berman helped
Speaker 2: Durst cover up Kathy's death by posing as the dead
Speaker 2: woman on a phone call and calling out of class
Speaker 2: like she missed class, she missed medical school. She was
Speaker 2: finishing up medical school, and so someone came back to
Speaker 2: that apartment in Manhattan that night and made the call
Speaker 2: saying she's not going to make it to class, and they.
Speaker 1: Believe it's burta set her up back in the city
Speaker 1: so that he's totally off. Yeah, and so then he
Speaker 1: killed her to make sure the secret didn't get out.
Speaker 4: And she's just such a pick me.
Speaker 1: I bet there.
Speaker 4: I guess their friendship wasn't that.
Speaker 1: I mean, like if he gave her away all this stuff, like,
Speaker 1: why would he think she would.
Speaker 4: Give it out? Give it up?
Speaker 1: You just want to be sure, Yeah, yeah, we just
Speaker 1: don't care. He doesn't.
Speaker 2: Actually, you can't be You're right, you can't be friends
Speaker 2: with associated. Yeah yeah, yeah, you're totally right. Like I
Speaker 2: bet she thought they were real friend She put her
Speaker 2: life on the line until she opened the door that day. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so her endorsed arranged interviews and told police and
Speaker 2: reporters around the city after Kathy disappeared that she's a
Speaker 2: drug addict, she's flunking out of medical school like all
Speaker 2: these lives, But school officials and academic records say that's
Speaker 2: not true, Like she was doing great at school. She
Speaker 2: also pretended to be her so it's not just calls,
Speaker 2: but like the elevator operator was like, oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: saw Kathy that day and then was like, wait, that
Speaker 2: wasn't Kathy. So this woman went to the building with
Speaker 2: like you know, sublass whatever and.
Speaker 1: Pretended to be Kathy.
Speaker 2: And this is sort of prosecution like this is according
Speaker 2: to the prosecution.
Speaker 4: This has not been yeah proven in core.
Speaker 2: I mean she's dead, So dr'st defense attorney's like this
Speaker 2: is bullshit. This is all taken from this fictional movie.
Speaker 2: This is all speculation, bad investigation. This is Hollywood, Like
Speaker 2: this isn't real, but I'm sorry. Like, like an article said,
Speaker 2: so you watched this movie, you reached out to the director,
Speaker 2: you did commentary, you made a documentary, and now the
Speaker 2: lawyers are saying it's all hollywood and made up, like
Speaker 2: you chased this, you know, Like I okay, but his
Speaker 2: lawyers really knew how to dance, you know, tap dance.
Speaker 2: So his name is Dick de Gourin, and to the
Speaker 2: New York Times, he said that the documentary was really
Speaker 2: an effort to trap Bob into saying something that would
Speaker 2: seem to incriminate him. Okay, like these lawyers when he
Speaker 2: reached out, it's like the BTK.
Speaker 1: He could have been he'd still be out. They were
Speaker 1: not going to find BTK. He wrote a letter to
Speaker 1: the police, and that's how they found him. Like these
Speaker 1: guys are cocky, they have kubris, you know. So.
Speaker 2: But on December twenty third, two thousand, because she was
Speaker 2: found on Christmas Eve. But on the twenty third, somebody
Speaker 2: mailed the Beverly Hills Police department a single sheet of
Speaker 2: spiral notebook paper and across it it had like an
Speaker 2: address and in big block letters that said cadaver and
Speaker 2: so the and the address belonged to Susan Berman, who
Speaker 2: was shot and killed in her home, you know, the
Speaker 2: same day the note was sent. So the police then
Speaker 2: found the body the next day. And in the Jings documentary,
Speaker 2: he said that the note. According to The New York Times,
Speaker 2: he quotes said the writer of the note had taken
Speaker 2: a big risk because it was something that only the
Speaker 2: killer could have written.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and somebody that I know, we do think he's
Speaker 1: a sociopath, but maybe had some kind of care for her,
Speaker 1: because you wanted that body found quickly. Yeah, he didn't
Speaker 1: want her.
Speaker 4: To like rot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't want the dogs to get She was single.
Speaker 1: And living alone, Like, yes, she would have been found
Speaker 1: not for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean Christmas break, people are on vacation.
Speaker 2: You assume people are out. It's the dog, I mean
Speaker 2: the dogs help.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But then also the neighbors did call authorities some kind
Speaker 2: of confused.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like as that's what I mean. There's just like
Speaker 1: a lot of inconsistencies when there's so much information. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, the dogs are loose, we'll get to it.
Speaker 1: And then they get the cadaver and they're like, let's
Speaker 1: head over there, you know, like that sort of seems
Speaker 1: that is true. It is the lapd right, it's La
Speaker 1: right yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Beverly Hills, and I feel like Beverly Hills,
Speaker 2: they're a Beverly Hills police. Well no, So I went
Speaker 2: to my friends showing Beverly Hills and it is just
Speaker 2: like it feels so Republican. It's like so separate from
Speaker 2: all of LA Like it is such a different vibe.
Speaker 1: My friend at Drag Race was telling me how he
Speaker 1: was in his apartment in Beverly Hills. He's lived there
Speaker 1: for years, like in an apartment building, and he's like
Speaker 1: I woke up in the night and there was a
Speaker 1: guy in my apartment and he was like, I was panicked,
Speaker 1: but like I think he just thought the guy was
Speaker 1: there to rob him and didn't realize he was home,
Speaker 1: so he kind of was like hey, and the guy
Speaker 1: ran or whatever. He called the police and said that
Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills police were so nice. They made sure
Speaker 1: he was okay, they followed up with him all the time.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's what money gets you, Like the
Speaker 1: taxpayers of Beverly Hills are paying for that police department,
Speaker 1: you know, Like he was like they are. But then like,
Speaker 1: my friend just got robbed in Larchmont. She said the
Speaker 1: policemen really great in helping her. And I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: but large one is rich too. Yeah, I know, but
Speaker 1: like I don't think it works yell because remember and
Speaker 1: also if you're well known, you're gonna talk shit about
Speaker 1: the police.
Speaker 2: Oh but also with SVU, we're always like, how do
Speaker 2: all the rich people how are they all friends with
Speaker 2: the police commissioner? And this is why it's like I
Speaker 2: have all these assets, are like I need us close
Speaker 2: my street down from my daughter's bought mitzv or whatever
Speaker 2: valet I want to do at any time but like
Speaker 2: all of their events, their houses, their security, they're if
Speaker 2: someone gets married, they're hiring all their dominating to like
Speaker 2: the pals. So it totally makes sense because we've always
Speaker 2: been like why how does every rich person friend at
Speaker 2: the police. But it makes sense because even in succession,
Speaker 2: someone commits a crime in the family and covered up,
Speaker 2: covered up immediately. That's there's not even a question. They're
Speaker 2: not even like nervous a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: Nuts, but like and then the perfect couple. It's like
Speaker 2: there's an old Michael Beach plays like a cop who's
Speaker 2: been on the island forever, and he's like, you have
Speaker 2: to treat the rich people like they're your friends and buddies,
Speaker 2: or they'll start like putting their guards up and like
Speaker 2: not like they'll fuck with us because the newer cop
Speaker 2: wants to, like, you know, really push around, and he's like,
Speaker 2: that's not how this town works, Like you have to
Speaker 2: canoodle with the rich. So they participate because they want
Speaker 2: they like feeling like, oh, this is my buddy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like I'm a regular girl or whatever. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'll call my friend at the precinct.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's always like, don't make me call the police commissioner,
Speaker 1: Captain Craigan. You know, that's always what's going on on
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So back to this letter. So for a
Speaker 2: while they were like, deny, deny, deny.
Speaker 1: He didn't write it.
Speaker 2: And then finally on Christmas Eve, for some reason, the
Speaker 2: lawyers are still working and they they let the document
Speaker 2: in his evidence, and they did say that he was
Speaker 2: the author of it, and the producers of the doc
Speaker 2: found even more evidence.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So a letter he wrote to Burman in nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: he misspelled Beverly Hills. He added e y at the end,
Speaker 2: and the letter he wrote to the police department he did.
Speaker 4: E y with the Beverly Hills cadab or not.
Speaker 1: So that's you know, circumstantial, but pretty good, pretty good.
Speaker 1: And his friends anonymously told The New York Times that
Speaker 1: he told them that he went to her house on
Speaker 1: the twenty third, saw her dead body, didn't want the
Speaker 1: dogs to gnaw on her. But he knew no one
Speaker 1: would think that it was like he was being innocent,
Speaker 1: so he couldn't.
Speaker 2: Actually like have called and been there, but he just
Speaker 2: saw that she was dead Jesus. But they also did
Speaker 2: end up finding a nine millimeter handgun in his car
Speaker 2: and it's the same caliber used to shoot Berman.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he couldn't ditch the gun. It's like
Speaker 1: he's the stupidest rich person alive.
Speaker 2: Well you just think nothing, like get the gun, grab
Speaker 2: the purse, make it look like an accident.
Speaker 1: Throw the person a dumpster somewhere, you know, like make
Speaker 1: it look like a robbery, is what I meant to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but also like yeah, whatever, so cut too.
Speaker 2: So that's two thousand whatever, nothing ever happens, like always,
Speaker 2: time goes by.
Speaker 1: So then in two thousand and one, he's living in
Speaker 1: Texas wildly right, and his neighbor in this in Galveston
Speaker 1: is found drifting.
Speaker 2: So body parts of this neighbor. The head was never found,
Speaker 2: but bunches of this guy was floating in the Galveston Bay.
Speaker 2: A thirteen year old boy was fishing in the bay
Speaker 2: and discovered the headless Torso on September twenty eighth, two
Speaker 2: thousand and one.
Speaker 4: And well, I.
Speaker 1: Wonder if this is also another reason we didn't hear
Speaker 1: about this at the time, another nine to eleven shadow crime.
Speaker 1: You know, it was like two weeks ten days after
Speaker 1: nine a art like you know, eleven.
Speaker 2: And the body was found in pieces on September thirtieth,
Speaker 2: two thousand and one, at and the guy was seventy
Speaker 2: one years old.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Well that's so interesting because I wonder if it's like
Speaker 2: with Trump or like New Yorkers knew these people and
Speaker 2: hated them, like New Yorkers knew they were troublemakers.
Speaker 4: And it was New York News but not other places.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this guy didn't seem like even though he
Speaker 1: was very rich, like he wasn't running in those circles
Speaker 1: and like he wasn't kouth, you know, he didn't have
Speaker 1: the manners and like the charm.
Speaker 2: No, and he's he was cheap, like they lived in
Speaker 2: smaller Like he wasn't extravagant.
Speaker 4: It's not like he was flashy. So the police in.
Speaker 2: Like in his car or whatever, they found receipts from
Speaker 2: a hardware store where he bought a bosaw and other
Speaker 2: items and like just a bunch of stuff and a
Speaker 2: newspaper and a gun, okay so, and then in the
Speaker 2: trash can behind the house on Avenue k And in Texas,
Speaker 2: they found a twenty two caliber handgun which Durst purchased
Speaker 2: at a sporting goods store in Houston on August thirtieth.
Speaker 2: There was also blood in the hallway of the apartments,
Speaker 2: and inside Durst's apartment there was blood and a bloody knife.
Speaker 2: The neighbors sold police that he was seen loading bags
Speaker 2: into the back of a silver car. So the police
Speaker 2: zeroed in on the like so they the body parts
Speaker 2: and they're zeroing in on this neighbor that like, you know,
Speaker 2: the trash bags are happening, the bloods, like they have
Speaker 2: to find who this person is. And people said that
Speaker 2: they were like fighting all the time, what's going on?
Speaker 2: And then they realized that the neighbor Durst, is living
Speaker 2: undercover as a mute woman. Yeah, so he's using a
Speaker 2: name of an old classmate, Dorothy's signer to rent the apartment.
Speaker 2: And like I said, this guy is an air to
Speaker 2: like billions of dollars and he's living in a three
Speaker 2: hundred dollars a month apartment next to this other guy,
Speaker 2: like really really cheap, cheaply. But to get these apartments
Speaker 2: with all these aliases and like all these games he
Speaker 2: was playing because he had places all over he would
Speaker 2: pay like six months in advance a you're in advance,
Speaker 2: like it beant nothing.
Speaker 4: And I have actually.
Speaker 2: Wildly did this once too, because sometimes real estate people
Speaker 2: don't trust you if you don't have a regular job.
Speaker 2: So you're like, I'll pay six months. Yeah, but this
Speaker 2: ended up being my carbon monoxide home. But like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I like paid it off and then it ended up
Speaker 2: being a nightmare because you have no leverage when they
Speaker 2: don't do things right because they have all the money.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 2: I was just like I'd never gotten in a part
Speaker 2: like I think LA was the first time I got
Speaker 2: a normal apartment, Like I've always just been in a
Speaker 2: shady situation. So they have to find him, and he's
Speaker 2: like all over the place. There's lots of calls, like
Speaker 2: he has places in San Francisco, he has luxury buildings
Speaker 2: in Dallas, like he could truly go anywhere.
Speaker 4: But he ended up getting arrested.
Speaker 2: So he got arrested on October ninth of that year,
Speaker 2: and he was able to post the two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars bond and he was found in a
Speaker 2: Holiday and Express in Texas using a fake name. So
Speaker 2: so he leaves and the thing is Texas just said
Speaker 2: that they didn't realize that he came from money like
Speaker 2: that it was a mistake and they didn't realize he
Speaker 2: was wealthy.
Speaker 4: Okay, But then later.
Speaker 2: When they made the bail like four billion dollars, the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court or something said it was unlawful and it
Speaker 2: was not appropriate and they had to lower it. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, but why is he getting bond or bailife?
Speaker 2: Why I just say no bail than do four billions?
Speaker 2: He's chopping up, But he won in court. They were like,
Speaker 2: this is not fair, and they like had to lower
Speaker 2: the cost. So it's like they either it's like two
Speaker 2: hundred fifty grand and he can pay for it and
Speaker 2: it's fine, or it was like illegal to be as
Speaker 2: much as it was. But I don't understand. There's body
Speaker 2: parts floating in a river, he's dressed as a woman,
Speaker 2: there's aliases. I don't understand why he would have to
Speaker 2: be released at all.
Speaker 1: This is it's one of the wildest stories of all time,
Speaker 1: it really is.
Speaker 2: But it's just money, right, Yeah. Like So anyway, so
Speaker 2: he leaves bond and he's on the lamb for two months.
Speaker 2: He's not found for forty five fucking days, and so
Speaker 2: the next court date he was supposed to be in
Speaker 2: was October sixteenth, and so like press comes people, media photographers,
Speaker 2: everyone's gathered up at court to see if he's going
Speaker 2: to show up. People came from New York, California. He's
Speaker 2: wanted everywhere. There's a murder everywhere by this man. And yeah,
Speaker 2: he didn't show up. So he didn't show up. So
Speaker 2: now you know, a manhunt needed to happen, and it
Speaker 2: had to be wide because he has all this property
Speaker 2: everywhere and money and assets and planes, and like my
Speaker 2: thing is, why don't.
Speaker 4: You take a jet to a different country? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, where they don't extra date?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It feels like, give you this guy kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to be caught in a way I don't know. But
Speaker 1: he's obviously aloner. Like why wouldn't you just get a plane,
Speaker 1: I know, get a plane and leave. Yeah, where do
Speaker 1: they not extra dte plenty of places? Who care?
Speaker 2: They wouldn't have been able to find him. He could
Speaker 2: have gone somewhere and then like went lived off of
Speaker 2: cash for the road. Yeah, Like I don't understand you're
Speaker 2: doing all of this, but it's still like like he
Speaker 2: went to Atlantic City, Like it's just like what so anyway,
Speaker 2: so he's zooming away and when they ended up finding him,
Speaker 2: he did have, you know, his murdered neighbors driver's license
Speaker 2: with them in medicare card, hit his medicare card. So
Speaker 2: he's going all over the place. It's a nationwide manhunt.
Speaker 4: Like I said.
Speaker 2: And he ended up driving to like New Orleans and Alabama,
Speaker 2: and then he went to old haunts so like Connecticut,
Speaker 2: places that he met his wife, college, Atlantic City, like
Speaker 2: he was just kind of taking a road trip. So
Speaker 2: then in Pennsylvania he's finally caught up because he was
Speaker 2: stealing a sandwich and that's when he was charged with
Speaker 2: blacks murder. This was at a Wegmans off Route five
Speaker 2: twelve near Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. He got a chicken salad hero
Speaker 2: sandwich with roasted peppers for five ninety nine, stole it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you know every time I think of Wegmans,
Speaker 1: I think of this because Wegmans like wasn't in my light.
Speaker 1: My sister loved Wegmans in college. And then when this
Speaker 1: came out, I was like Robert Durst at a Wegmans,
Speaker 1: like Caitlin, we were like we were obsessed. And then
Speaker 1: now It's like when whenever you're like, oh I went
Speaker 1: to Wegmans, I'm like Robert Durst there, like I always
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 4: It's late forever for me.
Speaker 2: Well, the reason the employee was tipped was he the
Speaker 2: employees saw him take one band aid out of a
Speaker 2: box of band aids and use it, and so he
Speaker 2: followed him around. So he took a newspaper and a sandwich,
Speaker 2: was just going to walk out, so they fucking.
Speaker 1: Got his ass. So makes no sense. I know, it's confusing.
Speaker 1: You have all these shady behavior. It's throw twenty dollars
Speaker 1: on the ground and walk out like you could have
Speaker 1: gotten away with that.
Speaker 2: It's wild. But you know sometimes peoplen' think of it,
Speaker 2: you know, they like they don't. They just walk around
Speaker 2: like nothing matters in any way.
Speaker 1: So that's how they fucking finally got him and brought
Speaker 1: him back down to do the trial.
Speaker 4: But guess what, he's acquitted. Of course, he's acquidted.
Speaker 2: He's found with this man's ID Medicare card, he's dressed
Speaker 2: like a woman next to him, like there's blood in
Speaker 2: his apartment, all of this stuff, and he's fucking acquitted.
Speaker 2: The Texas jury believed Durst's claims that he killed this
Speaker 2: guy in self defense and disposed of the body in
Speaker 2: a panic, and there's no specifics, like, it's just they
Speaker 2: both reached for the gun, like that is it. And
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, we both reached for the gun after
Speaker 2: a fight and it blew off his head and that's that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And the jury's like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, No,
Speaker 2: he didn't kill him, He just dismembered his body. I
Speaker 2: think it's fine, right, this man's safe to be out
Speaker 2: and about, like self defense for what. He had four
Speaker 2: hours of testimony at the Galveston County Courthouse, and according
Speaker 2: to The New York Times, he said, and I kept
Speaker 2: going over the situation in my mind, Morris was shot
Speaker 2: in the face with my gun in my apartment that
Speaker 2: I rented, disguised as a woman. I just didn't think
Speaker 2: that anyone would ever believe me. Well they did, They
Speaker 2: somehow fucking did. Over the next eighteen hours, he testified
Speaker 2: that he sought off mister Black's head, arm legs, wrapped
Speaker 2: the torsto and body parts and plastic bags, drove down
Speaker 2: to the pier, admitted to all of this that like
Speaker 2: he dumped it. He said everything and he was just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just didn't know what to do. And Prosecution's like,
Speaker 2: this is bullshit. He's way more cold and calculated. He
Speaker 2: took very shrewd steps to evade detection. It was a
Speaker 2: forty five day nationwide man high, Like this guy isn't
Speaker 2: just like a bumbling idiot who accidentally shot this guy's
Speaker 2: head off.
Speaker 1: And then it's like most people, I would say most
Speaker 1: people that would just like, you accidentally kill someone and
Speaker 1: you're like, they're never gonna believe me. You like wrap
Speaker 1: the body up in a carpet, you try to go
Speaker 1: bury it somewhere. You're not dismembering it into small parts.
Speaker 4: I would not be able to to do that.
Speaker 1: I would rather go to jail than do that, to
Speaker 1: be honest, than to chop up a body. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: we also learned from Breaking Bad. You could use the acid, sure,
Speaker 1: but the acid fell through the apartment below.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's because he didn't listen to the directions
Speaker 2: that Brian Cranston gave him. He said to do it
Speaker 2: in a rubber maid, and he didn't listen and did
Speaker 2: it in the tub. And like their science, Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: the chemistry teacher. Someone was telling her part that Breaking
Speaker 2: Bad is so accurate because Vince Gilligan was like he
Speaker 2: didn't want any fucking nerds to be like, well, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, everything was proven, so he'd be like, actually, no,
Speaker 2: and they had experiments and they had just like all
Speaker 2: of this evidence for anything, so no fucking nerd can
Speaker 2: like poke a hole in all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good for you. He's like, no one's gonna actually me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But he did plead guilty to bond jumping and evidence
Speaker 2: tampering and to the disposal of the body, so he
Speaker 2: got so he pled guilty to tampering with the dead body,
Speaker 2: but not.
Speaker 1: The murder, killing the body, so dismembering him. But he
Speaker 1: got five years. You got something. And there's literally no
Speaker 1: other leads on anyone else that could do this, Like
Speaker 1: no one has access to the apartment, no one else's
Speaker 1: DNA or hair was found.
Speaker 4: Like this is it's it's so crazy.
Speaker 2: So when the HBO docuseries started, like the goal an
Speaker 2: effort was to uncover his connection to these crimes, like
Speaker 2: everyone thought he was guilty and that was it. So
Speaker 2: it starts airing February of twenty fifteen, and you know
Speaker 2: that is the famous confession the last episode over a
Speaker 2: hot Mike. What the hell did I? So he goes
Speaker 2: he's in the bathroom. He's like, Washington, I don't remember
Speaker 2: where he was in the bathroom at this point, but
Speaker 2: he still makes up. And that's what fucked, because when
Speaker 2: you go to the bathroom, the mike wire does move
Speaker 2: and it's going. I was listening to an interview with
Speaker 2: Sidney Sweeney talking about all her like costumes throughout all
Speaker 2: the shows she's done, and I think it was for
Speaker 2: Handmaid's Tale or it was the Covenant one. But the
Speaker 2: costume director is so amazing the costume designer that she
Speaker 2: sews in wires into all of the outfits in the
Speaker 2: seam with a pocket, so you just have to put
Speaker 2: a battery in and plug it and that's it.
Speaker 4: The wire is so into the garment. So smart.
Speaker 2: That's one of this, like, hey, I do mind if
Speaker 2: I get in there? Like no, you have to have
Speaker 2: it in between your thoughts or hanging or whatever. Like
Speaker 2: it's just in the clothes. And that is why more
Speaker 2: women need to be in charge of stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah smart, Like every sound guy is just like digging
Speaker 1: into your body, your tights and like what the fuck
Speaker 1: when you could, in theory be sewing the wires in
Speaker 1: the costumes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So he has this cool you know the mic
Speaker 2: on he goes, what the hell did I do?
Speaker 1: Killed them? All?
Speaker 2: Of course changed everything. So March fourteenth, twenty fifteen, he's
Speaker 2: arrested for Burman's murder. And this was the night before
Speaker 2: the finale of The Jinx aired on March fifteenth, twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1: I remember this. I mean it was like the internet
Speaker 1: was on fire. But did you watch Chimp Crazy? Oh?
Speaker 1: Not yet?
Speaker 4: I started. I started it and then something.
Speaker 1: No, it's fine. They're just like ethics in terms of like,
Speaker 1: so something's going on, and they're like, what are the
Speaker 1: ethics involved of us continuing the documentary versus us having
Speaker 1: to tell the authorities what's happening?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I am curious about this, like did they
Speaker 2: film it all and tell them right away?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Because you got to like did they tell him on
Speaker 2: the thirteenth? Like I want to know the when the
Speaker 2: documentarians let the police in on the evidence.
Speaker 4: I think they must have let them know before this aired.
Speaker 2: Sure, but not but before the first episode aired or
Speaker 2: before the last episode aired.
Speaker 1: With the confession. It must have been done when it
Speaker 1: started airing, right, sure, But they didn't arrest the until
Speaker 1: the day before the finale aired. So where was he?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like what what are what? What? You
Speaker 1: just let a killer run around town?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I remember reading about this though, like they didn't find
Speaker 1: they didn't find it. They like added it in to
Speaker 1: the final episode or something. So I think they told
Speaker 1: the police as soon as possible. I don't think they
Speaker 1: were sketchy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but girl, it's been edited fully, Like why would
Speaker 2: you arrest the day before it comes out they knew
Speaker 2: before then?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Or did the cops just want to do it for fun?
Speaker 2: Like I just don't get it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but whatever.
Speaker 2: Charged with first degree murder, the prosecutors alleged that he
Speaker 2: killed Berman for knowing too much about the disappearance of
Speaker 2: his wife. She helped conceal the truth for all those years,
Speaker 2: and over one hundred people testified during that trial for decades.
Speaker 2: You know, Durris lied and said he wasn't in La
Speaker 2: at the time, but finally the.
Speaker 4: Attorney admitted that he was in La.
Speaker 2: He spent the holidays with her, but he found her
Speaker 2: dead and that Bob showed up and you know panicked
Speaker 2: and wrote the anonymous letter because he did care about her.
Speaker 1: But none of this matter.
Speaker 2: September seventeenth, twenty twenty one, Durst is convicted of Bermant's
Speaker 2: deaths more than two decades after, so on October fourteenth,
Speaker 2: he is sentenced to life in prison at seventy eight
Speaker 2: years old.
Speaker 1: So he really got away with a lot of murders. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for many decades.
Speaker 2: He was sentenced to life, and he tested positive for
Speaker 2: COVID and died like days after, like a few days after.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, dead, he wins. Oh, and this billionaire
Speaker 2: guy wins even in death. In California, when a defendant
Speaker 2: dies and the case is on appeal, the conviction is vacated. So,
Speaker 2: despite being convicted by a jury because of his death,
Speaker 2: Durst's conviction in the murder of Berman was vacated and
Speaker 2: no longer stands, according to ABC News. So who's old
Speaker 2: died of COVID in appeals and none of this is
Speaker 2: on his leg. I mean he's a killer, and we
Speaker 2: all know it's yeah, yeah, we all know he's a killer,
Speaker 2: whether the law says it or not.
Speaker 1: And her family gets closure or whatever, But that is
Speaker 1: that is why why you don't want to take someone's
Speaker 1: reputation after death, just vacate and yeah, so but forth, Yeah,
Speaker 1: body never found poor Kathy, but anyways, he's dead. He
Speaker 1: killed all these people, and it was an electric time,
Speaker 1: the Jinks time. Oh my god, we were all really
Speaker 1: like just a little Google search though, which by the way,
Speaker 1: all the top results now are AI, So I never
Speaker 1: have any idea if anything's right or not. But it
Speaker 1: seems like the Jinks people gave some evidence to the police,
Speaker 1: it says twenty thirteen. But some people do think that
Speaker 1: they held evidence to make the show more dramatic. They
Speaker 1: withheld them were like, I mean, I guess they could
Speaker 1: always just say like, oh, we didn't we didn't know,
Speaker 1: we just we just found out here take it, and
Speaker 1: then they could say that they were sliding the scene
Speaker 1: into the finale because the timing is wild. The day before,
Speaker 1: I remember the weekend was like running around in New
Speaker 1: York and was like this, could not wait to get
Speaker 1: home and watch the finale of the Jinks. Oh god,
Speaker 1: I'm sick. We're all sick. We love watching this kind
Speaker 1: of shit, but this the sickest. I mean, I want
Speaker 1: to rewatch everything. I'm gonna watch Jinks Part two.
Speaker 3: Me.
Speaker 4: I'm early like I got to relive all of this.
Speaker 1: Honestly, let's watch Jinks Part two and chat about which
Speaker 1: I think that's what this podcast is supposed to be
Speaker 1: reliving it.
Speaker 4: But it's a busy time in our lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's get onto the interview because it's
Speaker 1: a good one. Our guest today is a distinguished actor
Speaker 1: who won a Best Actor Tony in two thousand and
Speaker 1: four for the play I Am My Own Wife. He
Speaker 1: was recently in Perry Mason and I Am the Knight.
Speaker 1: But you know him if you're me, you know him
Speaker 1: forever and always as the medical examiner turned serial killer
Speaker 1: doctor Carl Rudnick. Please enjoy our conversation with the amazing
Speaker 1: Jefferson mays Hi Jello.
Speaker 6: Hello, Cara, you're there. Oh there, you're visible.
Speaker 4: Love It so nice to meet you.
Speaker 6: It's lovely to meet you.
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled you look sharp. Is this how you regularly dress?
Speaker 6: I always dress up for podcasts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it's amazing. Well, we're thrilled to have
Speaker 1: you here. Your character is unique.
Speaker 2: You know, we've we've never had anyone to be flipped
Speaker 2: from the inside, and I don't know. So when you
Speaker 2: got hired in season sixteen, did you know your full arc?
Speaker 1: Did you know how it was all going to end?
Speaker 1: Or was that a surprise?
Speaker 6: That was a complete surprise to me, because I you
Speaker 6: know i'd make done. I think I'd done a couple
Speaker 6: of the derivatives, you know, the mothership and criminal intent,
Speaker 6: you know, playing a hapless attorney, but I guess they're
Speaker 6: all happless attorneys on't because they have to lose, and
Speaker 6: and a head master of a public school. But this
Speaker 6: is the first time I was approached by Warren Light
Speaker 6: who asked me to come and be the duty emmy.
Speaker 6: And I was in a state of euphoria. I thought,
Speaker 6: my ship could find me, come in. This will be
Speaker 6: years of work, episode upon episode. Some people have been
Speaker 6: out it for like two hundred and sixty four episodes,
Speaker 6: and I thought, my God traded Joe's for years and
Speaker 6: a trip to Tuloom. And so I was thrilled, of course,
Speaker 6: and I said, yes, I'll do it, and you know,
Speaker 6: just a couple of do an expert testimony and an
Speaker 6: autopsy and you're done. And so I did the first
Speaker 6: two episodes, and I thought seems to be going well,
Speaker 6: and Warren came sidling up to me and took me
Speaker 6: by the elbow and said, can I talk to you
Speaker 6: about your character? And I immediately felt the worst, being
Speaker 6: an insecure actor, and he ushered me into a disused
Speaker 6: chord or on the set and says, we've been thinking
Speaker 6: about the arc and we think he might be a
Speaker 6: serial killer. And this just hit me out of the blue,
Speaker 6: and I thought part of me thought this is fantastic.
Speaker 6: I love villains. But then the other part of me says, well,
Speaker 6: this is going to be lived, because surely I can't
Speaker 6: be killing people for five years. No, I'm discovered, So
Speaker 6: I knew it was all coming to an end. And
Speaker 6: then I tossed in turn that by thinking what sort
Speaker 6: of vibe must I have been emanating in my first
Speaker 6: two episodes? Because I thought I'm being an upstanding, hard
Speaker 6: working public servant, But evidently I must have been exuding
Speaker 6: some sort of some sort of malevolent, various vibe that
Speaker 6: they picked up on and said let's let's get rid
Speaker 6: of him. And then and then you said, have you
Speaker 6: seen the Jinx, Yes, which is of course the documentary
Speaker 6: about Robert Durst and all of his murderous antics. He
Speaker 6: and I said, no, I'm aware of Robert Durst. And
Speaker 6: you said, go home and watch the Jinks and then we'll,
Speaker 6: you know, talk later. So that's how it began.
Speaker 1: Okay, So then when you watch the Jinks, what did
Speaker 1: you think? Because that was a wild moment in television
Speaker 1: that was happening.
Speaker 6: That was that was indeed, it was a compelling view.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I remember my wife and I sort of lay in
Speaker 6: bed and watched the entire thing and and I said, oh,
Speaker 6: I don't I don't think I look like Robert Durrist.
Speaker 6: I can be a simulate room of that. And it
Speaker 6: was a fascinating tale. And as you know, they took
Speaker 6: bits of it for the episode. I think there was
Speaker 6: a scene of me sort of mumbling my confession into
Speaker 6: a microphone on camera. Yes, that's how they that's how
Speaker 6: they caught both of us.
Speaker 1: And the cross dressing, of course, of course, was the
Speaker 1: cross dressing.
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, And I don't think I looked any better
Speaker 6: in women's clothes than he did. I was. That was
Speaker 6: a revelation. I looked very homely in my various drag outfits.
Speaker 6: I could send them to you do you want to see.
Speaker 6: Can I send pictures of that?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, we'd loved.
Speaker 6: I could send you an email or a text. Yeah,
Speaker 6: I have them up here. But anyway, you've done it.
Speaker 4: You've done a ton of theater, You've done a ton
Speaker 4: of acting. Had you ever dressed as a woman before
Speaker 4: I had?
Speaker 6: I had. I spent over a year on Broadway as
Speaker 6: a sixty five year old gay East German trans person. Oh,
Speaker 6: Charlotte von Mahlsdorf and a one person show, so maybe
Speaker 6: they got into that. Actually, that was my first Law
Speaker 6: and Order audition ever, which was probably the most hideous
Speaker 6: audition I ever had for anything, in which I was
Speaker 6: called in to portray a share impersonator early in this century,
Speaker 6: and if you look at me, I don't exactly radiate shareness.
Speaker 6: And I went in. I was on my way to
Speaker 6: a garden party, an engagement party in Westchester a friend,
Speaker 6: and I was in a linen suit with a straw boater,
Speaker 6: and I thought, I'll just stop vibe appears on my
Speaker 6: way and do the audition and go up state. And
Speaker 6: I walked into the room and of course everyone just
Speaker 6: looked at me Ashman and said in the producer I
Speaker 6: think said is this some sort of joke. I said, no,
Speaker 6: I'm here to read for Sharonburs And then I read it,
Speaker 6: and as with most traumatic experiences in my life, I
Speaker 6: sort of went into a blackout state. So I don't
Speaker 6: remember much about it. I just remember coming to drinking
Speaker 6: gin and tonics up in Westchester.
Speaker 1: Well that's a pretty way to add, that's a pretty
Speaker 1: good way to come out of a blackout. I would say, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, are you having a martini right now?
Speaker 6: I am not having a martini. This is a little
Speaker 6: silvillen Blanc left over from lunch, a very very small glass.
Speaker 6: It's one o'clock here. My martini arrives in three hours.
Speaker 4: Did you meet Warren through theater stuff or just.
Speaker 6: I knew him through the theater? Yes, he's just an
Speaker 6: extraordinary playwright in his own right. I remember just encountering
Speaker 6: and at Williamstown and various regional theaters where our paths crossed.
Speaker 6: But that's that's one of the many splendid things, as
Speaker 6: you know about law and orders, that they employed theater actors.
Speaker 6: I think I'd go so far to say that support
Speaker 6: us in our expensive habits. But they've been you know,
Speaker 6: it's wonderful I don't think you can be a New
Speaker 6: York theater actor and not appear on Law and Order
Speaker 6: at some point, so de riguer I think they take
Speaker 6: your cards away if you don't do it. A lot
Speaker 6: of people have. A friend of mine had an idea
Speaker 6: for their final season's finale just having under over the
Speaker 6: credits with the credits at the last episode, like a
Speaker 6: helicopter shot of all the actors who have never been
Speaker 6: in a Law and Order running to the end of
Speaker 6: the twenty third Street peer holding their head shots and
Speaker 6: resumes and saying, wait, don't.
Speaker 4: Go, don't close.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so funny. I was gonna say
Speaker 1: rednecks iconic.
Speaker 2: You know, there's not very many serial killers on SVU.
Speaker 2: It's usually one and done's do you get recognized around
Speaker 2: New York?
Speaker 1: Do people really? I do? Yeah?
Speaker 6: And beyond New York. Yeah, it's probably the thing that
Speaker 6: I'm most recognized for in very specific places, always like
Speaker 6: airport bars. It seems to always happen.
Speaker 2: Well, I bet it's people that travel for work and
Speaker 2: they watch it in hotels all the day.
Speaker 6: They just saw me five minutes, Yeah, on the back
Speaker 6: of the seat in front of them, and yeah, and
Speaker 6: then and ts a checkpoints, you know, which is always unsettling.
Speaker 6: You know when they when a cup quasi cop brings
Speaker 6: it up. Uh. And then there are and then there's
Speaker 6: horrible moments, uh, like as the doors close on the
Speaker 6: Uptown one train, someone screams murderer, you know, as the
Speaker 6: train takes off. But but it's but it's it's kind
Speaker 6: of it's kind of nice. And I always try to
Speaker 6: tell people a much nicer life.
Speaker 1: Well, I've seen you, and I've seen you in other things.
Speaker 1: I watched you in season one of Perry Mason, and
Speaker 1: I've seen you in other things. But every time I
Speaker 1: see you, I always just go, oh my god, there's Rudnick.
Speaker 1: You know, I write, that's right.
Speaker 6: I was playing another medical examiner. Yes, in Perry Mason.
Speaker 6: I seem to get that a lot. I'm always in
Speaker 6: a white coat with a bone saw.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: And then I noticed that also you were in. So
Speaker 1: I didn't actually watched this show I am the Knight,
Speaker 1: but I watched the Company. I listened to the accompanying
Speaker 1: podcast called The Root of Evil that was all about
Speaker 1: doctor George Hodell, who you play. That's right in this
Speaker 1: in this TNT limited series, I think yes, and he's
Speaker 1: another like doctor who might be a serial killer.
Speaker 6: That's right, I'm sensing a pattern here. Yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 6: are They're hard roles to play. I mean you always
Speaker 6: have to say, you know, words like exanguination, you know,
Speaker 6: subarrachnoid hemorrhage of the right cerebrum, and I always have
Speaker 6: a hard time committing those to memory.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So if I'm very stressful to be trying to handle
Speaker 6: a bone saw and take pictures of corps and then
Speaker 6: rattle off what is to my nonsense scientific mind, utter gibberish,
Speaker 6: you know, trying to make sense of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that body, those body parts were intricate, I
Speaker 2: feel in one of your Episodeseah, it's like she was
Speaker 2: all hacked up and.
Speaker 6: Right member m h Yeah. My friend, my friend married Bacon,
Speaker 6: bless her heart. It's always you always run into people
Speaker 6: you know or have worked with either on the slab.
Speaker 6: But yes, we had a bit of fun. I you know,
Speaker 6: the whole arc of this character sort of blurs into
Speaker 6: one long, complicated episode. I have a hard time thinking
Speaker 6: of scenes and any sort of separately. But I found
Speaker 6: Mary Bacon's severed head in the prompts departments, and then
Speaker 6: I brought it on set with me and had it.
Speaker 6: I was in the hospital bed recovering from my doctor
Speaker 6: yates and flicted wounds, and I had her sort of
Speaker 6: cuddled under my chin and rocking. I sent a picture
Speaker 6: of it to Marry and she never wrote backs. I'm
Speaker 6: not sure how it went, how it went down?
Speaker 1: Oh my god?
Speaker 4: And did you know Dallas Roberts.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, I've known Dallas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys have a nice little creepy dynamic frenemies.
Speaker 6: Yes, you cannot have anything but a creepy dynamic with
Speaker 6: Dallas Roberts.
Speaker 4: We had him on the podcast.
Speaker 1: We loved really.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's gorgeous. Yeah, he's wonderful, wonderful after and it
Speaker 6: was fun to be with him in prison.
Speaker 1: I think it was, yeah, bringing you back because like
Speaker 1: after yours, you know, you could have been gone forever
Speaker 1: after they catch you, but then they have your prison
Speaker 1: escape and you guys are unlikely likely sort of prison buddies,
Speaker 1: but also an evil.
Speaker 4: Who do you think is more danger? He's probably he's worse.
Speaker 6: Than obviously one. Yeah, I think, yes, I think I
Speaker 6: think Rudnick, for all of his evils, has a clickering
Speaker 6: of the soul of some kind and yeah, but but
Speaker 6: as I recall, Dallas beat me almost to death with
Speaker 6: a hammer or something. I don't know. I just remember
Speaker 6: my legs shattered, lying in the bilge of a of
Speaker 6: a cabin cruiser in the dead of winter. I think
Speaker 6: that's how they found me.
Speaker 4: You got to do a lot of you. You know,
Speaker 4: they set it up in the in the.
Speaker 1: Sort of the two episode arc they had, they set
Speaker 1: up you and Peter Scanavino's character really kind of hitting
Speaker 1: it off, like he's like he's like he's like, even
Speaker 1: after I transported the guy all the way back to
Speaker 1: New York, I kind of miss him, like he misses
Speaker 1: your character.
Speaker 6: Though, I think that that was intentional they I mean,
Speaker 6: he's such a lovely fellow, Peter, Peter and Kelly's a
Speaker 6: lovely fellow. Yeah, but you know, Warren said, we wanted
Speaker 6: to echo or pay homage to that film Midnight Run.
Speaker 6: Do you remember that with Charles Groden, Yeah, and Robert
Speaker 6: de Niro, And they're an unlikely pair. I think Robert
Speaker 6: de Niro is a bounty hunter bringing Charles Groden in
Speaker 6: and char and there's a sweet scene in a restaurant
Speaker 6: I think where Charles Groden is worried about Robert de
Speaker 6: Niro's eating habits and says, you really better lay off.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, red meat. It's just maybe a sweater in
Speaker 6: your colon. Yeah. So so that was a little echo
Speaker 6: to that lovely film.
Speaker 4: Oh interesting, that's cute. I also you have one of
Speaker 4: the things that I feel as lucky.
Speaker 2: There's like newspaper articles about you, and you're on the
Speaker 2: cover of all the newspapers. Did you steal any of
Speaker 2: them with your photos?
Speaker 1: Oh damn it.
Speaker 6: No, someone sent one to me, you know, a New
Speaker 6: York Post with me on the cover, And no, I never.
Speaker 6: I didn't get that far into the props department. I
Speaker 6: think I found Mary Bacon severed head. Yeah, and you
Speaker 6: went running.
Speaker 1: Yeah did you?
Speaker 2: And you did photo shoots for that, and like your
Speaker 2: mugshot and stuff.
Speaker 6: Is that fine? Yes? Yes it was. And I did
Speaker 6: lots of drag.
Speaker 1: Shoots to yes, because your license and everything. Didn't you
Speaker 1: have like a like a license where you had to be.
Speaker 6: Yes, oh yeah all that? Oh the yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: you're you're a little badge. And I didn't steal that either.
Speaker 6: I didn't steal anything, not even a floral print.
Speaker 4: Frog or a week, a little dress, a little.
Speaker 2: Numbers are there behind the scenes tidbits you feel we
Speaker 2: would enjoy hearing from your time on set or our listeners.
Speaker 5: Oh gosh, I find my time in front of the
Speaker 5: camera rather intense, you know, I, and it sort of
Speaker 5: absorbs all of my concentration, especially getting those damn latex
Speaker 5: gloves on and off.
Speaker 6: I think that they should have like a two week
Speaker 6: workshop for every law and order medical examiner, because it's
Speaker 6: extremely hard. I don't know if you have latex gloves
Speaker 6: at home and you want to try it, but getting
Speaker 6: them off in the medically approved way where you don't
Speaker 6: want to bring the latex glove in contact with the skin,
Speaker 6: you know, sort of have to pull it out gingerly
Speaker 6: halfway down, bring the other one halfway down, work the
Speaker 6: other one off. And doing that while selling gibberish is
Speaker 6: just one of the greatest challenges I've ever faced in
Speaker 6: my life. Mercifully, you don't have to put them on.
Speaker 6: I tried that in a scene a couple of times,
Speaker 6: and you invariably end with certain little flappy latex bits
Speaker 6: at the end of your fingers. But yeah, it seems
Speaker 6: that every scene begins with strip off a pair of
Speaker 6: gloves and throw the throwing them into the bin, and
Speaker 6: then you launch into incomprehensible, incomprehensible passage of medical gibb Bridge.
Speaker 6: But back scenes. No, the Mary Bacon Sarah Head story
Speaker 6: is the one that pops to mind. But uh, but uh,
Speaker 6: but but no, I'm so sorry, because.
Speaker 2: Well it's it's totally okay, but it's really cool because
Speaker 2: you know, you're on the stand for some you're a
Speaker 2: get to be in the morgue, you're on the run,
Speaker 2: and you really get to be everywhere, everywhere.
Speaker 6: I remember one in which, because you know, I was
Speaker 6: still determined to get the lines correct, I had my
Speaker 6: lines written on little index cards. I brought some sticky
Speaker 6: tape and I put them inside the dock. So I'm
Speaker 6: doing expert testimony, and every now and then my eye
Speaker 6: can sort of maybe flick it down and I can
Speaker 6: see the word that eludes me and come up with
Speaker 6: it at the proper time. And then of course when
Speaker 6: we do the turnaround, you know, the DP or cameraman
Speaker 6: came up and said, you know, all of his little index.
Speaker 1: Cards, you can see them.
Speaker 6: So yeah, so I had to move them lower and mercifully,
Speaker 6: I guess the cameras over my shoulders, so I was
Speaker 6: able to get away with that little hack. But I
Speaker 6: heard Sam Waterston did the same thing, uh of by
Speaker 6: putting index cards on the backs of the busts and
Speaker 6: or down on his desk, And I completely understand. I uh,
Speaker 6: I think the clipboard is the medical examiner's friend because
Speaker 6: you can write you know that that you know chest
Speaker 6: wall of grasion and contusion on it and read it,
Speaker 6: or you know, you have the confidence to know it's
Speaker 6: there if you need it, so you always have a clip.
Speaker 4: In real life.
Speaker 1: I'm sure if you go to a medical examiner and
Speaker 1: you say what happened you, no one is expecting them
Speaker 1: to say it off the top of their head. I'm
Speaker 1: sure they're all looking at a piece of paper and
Speaker 1: reading off of them.
Speaker 6: Arah, I wish i'd told me that, heart, But I
Speaker 6: think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: I understand like the actor, because we've also spoken to Tamratuni,
Speaker 1: who and a lot on that show for you know,
Speaker 1: a decade three years, and she was saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: she was like very interested in science and so she
Speaker 1: knew a lot of like she you know, but I
Speaker 1: still think rattling off a lot of findings off the
Speaker 1: top of your head, it's impressive, but it certainly I
Speaker 1: don't know if we I don't know if what's.
Speaker 4: What's going to happen in real life.
Speaker 2: No, but now I'm always gonna notice that I've always seen,
Speaker 2: starting with the gloves being thrown.
Speaker 1: Yes, right now that you mentioned, I'm like.
Speaker 6: Oh, my punctuation latex. Glove throwing is punctuation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I am now done with my examining
Speaker 1: and ready to speak. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Right, But I do not possess camera's scientific mind. I'm
Speaker 6: not concrete sequential, so I would have to do these
Speaker 6: stupid elaborate things like like like sub irachnoid. I'd see
Speaker 6: the Beatle's yellow submarine arachnoid iraknd spider anoid spider like
Speaker 6: humanoid a rack the lighter robot spider on top of
Speaker 6: the Beatles yellow submarine hemorrhage with a black eye, you know.
Speaker 6: So that would be the image in my mind when
Speaker 6: I was saying the line.
Speaker 1: These little mnemonics that we come up.
Speaker 6: Yes, I'm so glad to share. Speaking of dead bodies,
Speaker 6: I remember that I had a humble experience doing It's
Speaker 6: not really a funny story at all. I was on
Speaker 6: my way to set to do you know, to play
Speaker 6: Rhynic before they discovered him, I think, and I got
Speaker 6: word in the car that my dad had died, and
Speaker 6: I just arrived, as you can imagine, utterly shaken and
Speaker 6: bless his heart. Warren was just coming out and I
Speaker 6: told him and he said, oh God, I'm so sorry
Speaker 6: that let us know if there's anything we can do,
Speaker 6: and I said thank you, And then I realized I
Speaker 6: was spending the day in the morgue doing all tops
Speaker 6: by dead bodies, and I don't remember much about that.
Speaker 6: I think I did get the lines out, although I
Speaker 6: think I did have to leave a post it wedged
Speaker 6: under a body at one point. But but that was
Speaker 6: that was. That was a strange day. But everyone on
Speaker 6: the set, I remember, Raoul Asparza was just particularly lovely
Speaker 6: to me. And yeah, they all carried me through and
Speaker 6: put me in a car and sent me to the airport.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, always, whenever I think about that, I think about
Speaker 2: Vanessa Hudgens. Her dad died and then she had to
Speaker 2: do Grease Live and so whenever, God, whatever I wanted
Speaker 2: to answer, I think about that, and now I will
Speaker 2: think about it.
Speaker 6: Yes, well, thank you for the folks. But yeah, no,
Speaker 6: but everyone was just gorgeous.
Speaker 2: This is one of our classic questions, and we actually
Speaker 2: have not asked it in months, but I feel compelled.
Speaker 4: What are your go to craft service snacks?
Speaker 6: My favorite pepperish farm. She had a goldfish. Oh, although
Speaker 6: they get you know, they can interfere with your respiratory system,
Speaker 6: the crumminess, the crumbiness of them, But I don't know,
Speaker 6: I find those very very satisfying.
Speaker 1: Well, you'd love my house. I have two children and
Speaker 1: I'm flushed with all times.
Speaker 6: Jars of and I also like one I have and
Speaker 6: I love Cheetos, but they don't have Cheetos because of course,
Speaker 6: wardrobe is complain because the people get especially with white
Speaker 6: lab coats. Ye's a horrible thing. But every now and
Speaker 6: then you'll find that. But actually, one other thing that
Speaker 6: comes to mind. I was on Darbis set and Vicodin
Speaker 6: from a lot of my work on lawn Order because
Speaker 6: I had I was recovering from a herniate. I was
Speaker 6: doing a very vigorous Broadway musical at the time and
Speaker 6: I had herniated a disc between cervical vertebrae six and seven. See,
Speaker 6: I'm a medical examiner and I can say things like that,
Speaker 6: And I was on pain killers to this great degree,
Speaker 6: and I was worried about the lines. And again I
Speaker 6: remember taking the second idea aside and saying, don't you
Speaker 6: think you should make some of these big cards or
Speaker 6: maybe in the case, and he said, yes, we can,
Speaker 6: we can easily do that. But miraculously I was able
Speaker 6: to get through despite doing it through a drug induced haage.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have known it, you were. Your character is
Speaker 1: very sharp. I feel you didn't you didn't notice that
Speaker 1: at all. And funny, you're so great.
Speaker 6: That's a great great because you.
Speaker 1: Know these are newer seasons.
Speaker 2: During the first decade or so of SV there was
Speaker 2: a little bit of silliness with the darkness, and I
Speaker 2: feel like, you know, your character really brings the laughs,
Speaker 2: even though it's like killing I.
Speaker 6: Haven't seen it. I haven't. I haven't watched it myself.
Speaker 6: It's unbearable for me to watch myself. Oh really on
Speaker 6: television or film. Yeah, Yates.
Speaker 1: Yates's character was really just so creepy, and I think
Speaker 1: to just add another serial killer in with him that's matched.
Speaker 1: His creepiness would have just been like too much, and
Speaker 1: your your character was just such a different vibe of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you were almost charming even though you just chopped someone
Speaker 1: into pieces, Like you know.
Speaker 6: That's the loveliest thing anyone said to me for weeks.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 6: And they let me wear some of my own clothes too,
Speaker 6: which is nice. I sort of I showed up for
Speaker 6: my costume fitting and they looked at me and said,
Speaker 6: you know, you could just go out there right now.
Speaker 6: And I don't think it came to that. I think
Speaker 6: they gave me sort of clothes that are like ones
Speaker 6: that I own. I was able to wear a Panama hat.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's your IMTB phone that I.
Speaker 6: That's that's my Panama hat that I wore in in
Speaker 6: this particular episode. Yeah, when I'm being arranged or something.
Speaker 1: This is why people are yelling murderer at you on
Speaker 1: the subway is because you kind of you.
Speaker 6: Know, I know, if I were a baseball cat, you know,
Speaker 6: and a bomber jacket, this wouldn't happen.
Speaker 4: Exactly. What are you working on now?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Are you doing theater school or yeah?
Speaker 6: Well I'm about I've been working away. I do this
Speaker 6: one person version of a Christmas Carol that my wife,
Speaker 6: Michael Arden, and I adapted, and I'm about to do
Speaker 6: it again at the Old Globe Theater in San Diego.
Speaker 6: I did it on Broadway a couple of years ago,
Speaker 6: and we did a film of it at the United
Speaker 6: Palace Theater up in Washington Heights, and I did at
Speaker 6: the Geffen Theater here. This that was a much more
Speaker 6: elaborate production. And this is essentially me on stage by myself,
Speaker 6: without any sort of technical support, telling the story of
Speaker 6: a Christmas Carol and embodying all the characters. And I'm
Speaker 6: kind of terrified of it. It's going to be in
Speaker 6: the round.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So I just I hope.
Speaker 6: That I don't, you know, make myself in the audience queasy,
Speaker 6: like whirling center stage like a Dickens spouting dervish. But
Speaker 6: I'm very excited to be doing it. It's one of
Speaker 6: my favorite stories. And yeah, so that's what's next up
Speaker 6: for me.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Thank you so much for taking
Speaker 4: the time to talk to us.
Speaker 6: I mean, such a pleasure. I admire your admire your
Speaker 6: work and your and your obsessions.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: He's got style, he's got class. He's Miss United States?
Speaker 2: Is that I fucked that up?
Speaker 1: Didn't that?
Speaker 2: I don't know that it's for Miss congenial Yeah, she's
Speaker 2: Miss United States.
Speaker 4: I think that might be it.
Speaker 2: I saw a video on the internet where it's like
Speaker 2: a millennial got married and all the friends did the
Speaker 2: whole Miss Congeniality dance. But I was like, I love
Speaker 2: that movie. I've seen it hundreds of times, Like, I
Speaker 2: don't know if it would have clicked for me right away.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I've seen that about times obscure and yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but you know, impressive, impressive. No.
Speaker 4: I love Jefferson. He sent us extra photos.
Speaker 1: We'll share photos of him in bed with like Susie
Speaker 1: Frain's head prop like yeah, that and more drag photos
Speaker 1: of him. I mean, what a great what a great
Speaker 1: guy and a very talented actor.
Speaker 4: I mean money, having a nice little wine, you know.
Speaker 1: The only serial killer on SVU that I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Maybe i'd hang out with him for a drink,
Speaker 1: you know, like William Lewis Yates. Those guys make my
Speaker 1: skin crawl. Rudnick, I'm kind of like, well, if I
Speaker 1: can forget about the fact that you were cutting people
Speaker 1: up alive while they were still a lot like.
Speaker 4: You know, then I can.
Speaker 1: Uh. I don't know, kind of a kind of a
Speaker 1: charming guy, as Cariese says, But have you heard of
Speaker 1: this movie A Nora? Yeah, we got to see it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's great. I like that actress a lot. She's from Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously we both watch Better Things, but she's
Speaker 1: also from she.
Speaker 4: Was in one of those Freewood Yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Screams she's killing.
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna be a here a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this for sure because it won the Big Sun Dance
Speaker 2: Word But Frex's friend Sebastian is a truck driver in it,
Speaker 2: and he told me was it. He's like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: a small part, but he's on the carpet cheese in
Speaker 2: and people are like writing him in the reviews that
Speaker 2: he killed it. So I'm kind of I feel cool
Speaker 2: that I know someone in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just got invited to a screening, but you
Speaker 1: gotta go. But it's like it's like when we're gone,
Speaker 1: but I really want to. I really want to see it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go see it for sure.
Speaker 2: I can't wait and I you know, I think there's
Speaker 2: a Russian storyline. I there there's gonna be some Russian
Speaker 2: in it, So I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I'm just excited. I just feel like
Speaker 1: we're back.
Speaker 2: We have four housewife franchises airing at the same time,
Speaker 2: we have movies that we want to go rush.
Speaker 1: The new season of SVU is yeah. I have even
Speaker 1: seen the first two episodes and season A found Yes,
Speaker 1: season Found. Yeah, there's a lot going on and I'm excited.
Speaker 4: Uh I got a TV person. It's just yeah.
Speaker 2: But that's like my biggest flaw is like, I mean,
Speaker 2: I have a few but no matter how busy, no
Speaker 2: matter how many tasks, no matter how stressed and overwhelmed
Speaker 2: I am, I'm watching.
Speaker 1: My shows, getting your shows, get your shows done.
Speaker 2: But how do I not like this addiction is so real,
Speaker 2: Like I'm sitting panicked of like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be up till five am. I know I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be up till five am working This is a nightmare,
Speaker 2: but I'll I'll still watch my shows like I have
Speaker 2: to do it. And I wish I was someone that
Speaker 2: like after my you know, I did two standards. I
Speaker 2: wish I could go back home and just get No,
Speaker 2: I'm watching anatomy a life, you know, like I'm trying
Speaker 2: to highlight. I'm always trying to do another thing while
Speaker 2: I do it. But I just I really prioritize my shows.
Speaker 2: It's important. I mean, oh, go and go see good
Speaker 2: Rich at the movie theaters. I mean, oh, yeah, Lisa's
Speaker 2: in a movie called good Rich. Everybody it's out with
Speaker 2: Michael Clinton. Maybe I'll post my Michael Keaton photo today,
Speaker 2: but yeah.
Speaker 4: I've been it's been coming up in my Instagram.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: Well, someone I came to the show in San Diego.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I just saw you.
Speaker 2: I saw good Rich today and I didn't even know
Speaker 2: you were going to be in it, and now I'm
Speaker 2: here and I was like, well, why'd you go see it?
Speaker 1: And she said the paper had a really good article
Speaker 1: about it. So that's really exciting. Oh that's good. So
Speaker 1: it's getting good reviews. Yeah, yeah, is really talented. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I hope you mentioned and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I wonder if you'll mention it or
Speaker 2: I'll be beetle juice, beetle juice, beetle juice, Beetle Juice.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's like that's like done,
Speaker 1: it's that's coming gone. We're in good Llweenridge time now,
Speaker 1: we're in good Rich season. I just don't know if
Speaker 1: Beetle Juice Beetles is even still in the theaters, even
Speaker 1: though I know it's Halloween season, Like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's still out. Movies are in the theater now
Speaker 1: for three seconds. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I want to see here it say. Hopefully I'll be
Speaker 2: able to do a nice review of that. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: is cool. A lot of people that like our podcast
Speaker 2: like Ruined and it makes me happy.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah Ruined. Oh my god, I really
Speaker 1: I don't want to it's gonna be passed when this happens.
Speaker 1: But I really want to try to go to that
Speaker 1: live show. But I got my kids tickets to the
Speaker 1: Bob Baker's boot Tacul. You know how we are. But
Speaker 1: we're a Bob Baker family.
Speaker 2: Do they have memberships or you always just have to
Speaker 2: be on the edge of your seat every new show announced,
Speaker 2: rushing to get tickets.
Speaker 1: Rushing to get tickets, and like they're always like gone.
Speaker 1: Whenever I go like I have to get like three,
Speaker 1: Like I get three, but we always sit crisscross apple
Speaker 1: sauce on the ground and like it's a lot. But
Speaker 1: then people are always on the mom groups going why
Speaker 1: are there no tickets?
Speaker 4: Like you have to like rush to get everything. It's
Speaker 4: crazy they.
Speaker 2: Really, I mean, if they're this popular, they need to
Speaker 2: get it together.
Speaker 1: Well, they just got a marquee and they just had
Speaker 1: a big Bob Baker Day to celebrate the fact that
Speaker 1: they I think we're able to drive, yes, and I
Speaker 1: think that I think they were maybe somehow able to
Speaker 1: buy the building or something. But they're they are staying
Speaker 1: in La. Casey might know more than me, but like
Speaker 1: they're staying in LA. And that was like they had
Speaker 1: a big Bob Baker Day thing to like celebrate we're
Speaker 1: staying in LA. They have a big Neon marquee. That's
Speaker 1: really cool. Next time you come to town you'll see it.
Speaker 1: I passed it last night driving home and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it looks really good at night, like it's all lit up.
Speaker 1: So go Bob Baker. That's my shout out for puppets
Speaker 1: right now. Anyway, let's get into our what would sister
Speaker 1: Peg do are if.
Speaker 2: We didn't even touch on the episode, let's just at
Speaker 2: least say one thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know, I don't want a victim blame,
Speaker 1: but Susie Frain, you got involved with the wrong group
Speaker 1: of guys. So you got involved with the wrong two dudes.
Speaker 1: But don't ever quietly confess anything to yourself. Keep your
Speaker 1: confessions in your brain. You never know when someone's listening,
Speaker 1: someone's recording you, like honestly confess in your brain or
Speaker 1: to a priest, like.
Speaker 4: Don't do it.
Speaker 1: Don't do it, Like I don't know they fucking told
Speaker 1: you the camera was on, they were being recorded, dumb dump.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you're murdering, you gotta keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 1: And like I think it's just when like your research
Speaker 1: of the crime, it's like it's just another example of
Speaker 1: the hubris of these guys. It's like they want their
Speaker 1: story to be told the way they want it to
Speaker 1: be told, and even if it gets them caught.
Speaker 2: You know, it happened to be TK, happened to Durst.
Speaker 2: It also is Yeah, money, money is awesome. Yeah, money
Speaker 2: really helps you murder for decades. Yeah, he got to
Speaker 2: jail and died like almost immediately you know what I mean, like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: he couldn't survive the I mean, how good of lawyers
Speaker 2: did you hire that the jury believed you just put
Speaker 2: butchered the body but didn't murder.
Speaker 1: It's it's wild. Yeah, I don't understand it. It is wild,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I bet you that the lawyers they had,
Speaker 1: he had people in Galveston, Texas had never seen anything
Speaker 1: like them. Like if you're bringing a Rita and a
Speaker 1: Buchanan down to Galveston, Texas, they're getting you out, you know,
Speaker 1: damn it's nuts. But anyway, let's move on to our
Speaker 1: what would Sister Peg do? This is our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we give you a link to a you know,
Speaker 1: an organization or a doc or something to give you
Speaker 1: more info on today's episode. And I think obviously we
Speaker 1: want to point you to The Jinks and to there's
Speaker 1: now two parts of it. There's a second part, so
Speaker 1: you can watch that now on Max and you can
Speaker 1: learn all about the crazy crimes and the murders of
Speaker 1: Robert Durst and sort of put faces to the names.
Speaker 1: If you never watched The Jinks and you just listen
Speaker 1: to Lisa's crime recap, you cannot see all the drama
Speaker 1: unfold because it clearly was.
Speaker 4: The cliff Notes recap. Yes, it really.
Speaker 1: The jinx was like a fucking moment in time television wise,
Speaker 1: and I don't want anyone to not have seen it.
Speaker 4: So check out the jinks. I've got to go watch
Speaker 4: the second one.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that so and that'll be posted, you know,
Speaker 1: in our stories the day this episode comes.
Speaker 2: Out always, and next week we will be doing tunnel
Speaker 2: Blind Okay, season twenty five, episode one, so catch on
Speaker 2: up with the new seasons. Thanks everyone that came to
Speaker 2: see us live on tour, and I hope all of
Speaker 2: your voting went amazing.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening. We love all of you.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 4: Thank you so.
Speaker 2: Much to our senior producer, Casey O'Brien and our associate producer,
Speaker 2: Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media dot dun