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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys putting.

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Speaker 2: On here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in armed now?

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Speaker 4: No, Look, we're going to do this thing.

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Speaker 5: We're going to have a.

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Speaker 2: Conversation from Chicago. This is Film Spotting celebrating our twentieth year.

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Speaker 2: I'm Adam Kempenar.

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Speaker 6: You feel this hope and possibility of a time, you

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Speaker 6: know where people really felt like they could make a

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Speaker 6: difference by the spaces they created, and I just thought,

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Speaker 6: I have to make a film here because there's such

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Speaker 6: a story.

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Speaker 2: That's director Cooganada, who went on to make that film

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Speaker 2: his first, twenty seventeen's Columbus, which is set in Columbus, Indiana,

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Speaker 2: a mecca for modernist architecture. We screened the film earlier

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Speaker 2: this year as part of Film Spotting Fest, and Cooganada

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Speaker 2: was kind enough to join us. We'll share our post

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Speaker 2: screening Q and A also from Film Spotting Fest, Slate's

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Speaker 2: Dana Stevens on Satugit raised Pather Panchali, that and more

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Speaker 2: ahead on Film Spotting. Welcome to Film Spotting. Adam flying

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Speaker 2: solo this week with Josh's big move back. In March

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Speaker 2: of this year, we celebrated twenty years of film Spotting

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Speaker 2: with the first ever Film Spotting Fest six films over

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Speaker 2: three days at two great Chicago film institutions, the Gene

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Speaker 2: Sisco Film Center and the Music Box. Ryan Johnson joined

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Speaker 2: us for a screening of his debut film Brick. Some

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Speaker 2: critic friends joined us for screenings of Sean Baker's Tangerine,

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Speaker 2: Jeff Nichols Take Shelter, and Richard Linklater's Before Sunrise, and

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Speaker 2: Slate Culture Gabfest critic and longtime friend of the show

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Speaker 2: Dana Stevens joined us for one of the great directing

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Speaker 2: debuts of all time, sat Jit raised Pather Panchali. We'll

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Speaker 2: share her conversation about the film with Josh later in

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Speaker 2: the show. But first, Coganada, the director's latest film, A Big, Bold,

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Speaker 2: Beautiful Journey with Colin Farrell and Margot Robbie, comes to

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Speaker 2: theaters later this month. But his first film, twenty seventeen's Columbus,

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Speaker 2: made a huge impression on us. We gave it our

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Speaker 2: Golden Brick Award, which goes to our favorite film of

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Speaker 2: the year by a new or emerging filmmaker. Set in

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Speaker 2: the modernist, architecture rich city of Columbus, Indiana, John Cho

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Speaker 2: plays Jin the estranged son of an ailing architecture scholar.

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Speaker 2: He connects with Hailey lou Richardson's casey, a recent high

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Speaker 2: school grad and modernist architecture appreciator trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: her life. I've had a chance to interview Coganata twice.

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Speaker 2: He's one of the most thoughtful and insightful interview subjects

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Speaker 2: I've had the pleasure of talking to. We were obviously

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Speaker 2: thrilled when he agreed to join us at Film Spotting Fest.

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Speaker 2: We spoke with him in front of an audience after

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Speaker 2: a screening of Columbus. Here's that conversation, ladies and gentlemen. Coganata,

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Speaker 2: thank you, guys, thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and congratulations, thank you so thank you A big

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Speaker 6: deal of twenty years. I actually have a story, just

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Speaker 6: finish a sound mix for my next film and Toronto

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Speaker 6: and the sound designer. After I had left, he texted

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Speaker 6: me and he said, I know what you're going to

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Speaker 6: do this weekend. And he's like, because I listened to

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Speaker 6: Film Spotting he said, I didn't want to tell you

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Speaker 6: this while working, but he said, I hope you tell

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Speaker 6: Josh and Adam. But he's like, I watched after Yang,

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Speaker 6: because I've listened to film spotting and they had recommended it,

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Speaker 6: and then he said, and then it made me watch Columbus,

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Speaker 6: And then all these years later, you know, I'm doing it.

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Speaker 6: When when I got a call about you being a

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Speaker 6: sound designer, I was just like, He's like, but I

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Speaker 6: just want them to know that I would not have

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Speaker 6: discovered that without you know, listening to film spottings.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a great story. I hope the collaboration was

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Speaker 2: a fruitful one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, he's incredible. Yeah yeah, yeah, he's a incredible sounder.

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Speaker 6: He did Priscilla and did Aronofsky's so you know work,

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Speaker 6: so so he's incredible.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, okay, a professional in otherwise, So, how are

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Speaker 2: you about watching your work? When was the last time

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Speaker 2: you saw Columbus.

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Speaker 6: It's been a minute, and it's like, wow, it was

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Speaker 6: such a flood of memories, and you know, having some distance,

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Speaker 6: there's there's so many personal things there. But it's a

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Speaker 6: good distance, you know, because you're immediately you know, you

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Speaker 6: always just kind of see all the you know, you're

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Speaker 6: too close to it. But it was great. It's great

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Speaker 6: seeing it here. You know, I have such memories of

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Speaker 6: the Cisco Center. You know, when I lived in Chicago,

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Speaker 6: I had I remember when I was, you know, a

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Speaker 6: young centophile, and they were doing a Zoo retrospective here

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Speaker 6: and it was a whole week. And this is before

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Speaker 6: you could watch O Zoo, you know. I remember like

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Speaker 6: ordering you know, DVD from like Singapore, and I was

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Speaker 6: just reading about these movies that I wanted to see

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Speaker 6: and they weren't it wasn't a Criterion channel. And then

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Speaker 6: suddenly they had a retrospective here and I was like

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Speaker 6: so excited, and I came to every screening and there

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Speaker 6: was just like a group of us who was just

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Speaker 6: watching it all and I I was too shy to

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Speaker 6: say anything to anyone, but I felt so close to everyone,

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Speaker 6: you know. I was like, oh, this is my family,

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Speaker 6: you know, and not a religious person, but it felt

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Speaker 6: so sacred that week, you know. I I just have

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Speaker 6: such a deep memory of it. But I also remember

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Speaker 6: that I was telling one of my friends, I was like,

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Speaker 6: you have to come see Ozoo with me. I don't

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Speaker 6: know what it is, but it's life changing, I can't,

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Speaker 6: you know, but just come to one of these and

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Speaker 6: he finally came. But I had been going to all

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Speaker 6: of them and he came one night and then I

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Speaker 6: was like exhausted, and I like fell asleep, you know

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Speaker 6: while I was watching it. And he to this day

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Speaker 6: ridicules me. He's like, you said it was life changing,

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Speaker 6: but you're asleep, you know. I was like, I probably

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Speaker 6: see was. So if any of you guys fell asleep,

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Speaker 6: I'm like, no problem, right, because I know some of

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Speaker 6: you guys have been watching everything, and you know Curiustami,

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Speaker 6: it's always a compliment, he says when people fall asleep

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Speaker 6: in his films, So you know, so yeah, Can I.

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Speaker 4: Ask you a question about the art of location scouting

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Speaker 4: because it's a particular aspect of filmmaking that isn't always

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Speaker 4: discussed but clearly extra crucial for Columbus. And I imagine

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Speaker 4: when you're approaching that for this movie, you have this

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Speaker 4: city that is is a treasure trove. So maybe the

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Speaker 4: instinct is to think, well, that makes it easy. You

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Speaker 4: show up and you have all of these options. So

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Speaker 4: what was that process like was it going through? Did

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Speaker 4: you take a tour and just as you're on the

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Speaker 4: tour think oh, we'll film here, we'll film here. Did

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Speaker 4: you have a list of the you know, the main character,

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Speaker 4: like Cassid. Did you have a list of favorites you

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Speaker 4: wanted to include. Did you write with places in mind

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Speaker 4: or did you get there and the places inspired some

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Speaker 4: of the writing. How did location scouting work on this film?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think it was everything in some ways.

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Speaker 6: I had just read about Columbus and a New York

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Speaker 6: Times article, and you know, I was living in Chicago.

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Speaker 6: My family was in Indiana at that time, so I

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Speaker 6: was always driving and I passed Columbus all the time.

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Speaker 6: But I had no idea that it had all this

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Speaker 6: architecture and I had interest in it, and I was

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Speaker 6: just like, couldn't believe I was passing it. So I

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Speaker 6: just I just stopped there one day to or maybe

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Speaker 6: at that time, I was in New York and I

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Speaker 6: was visiting my family. Anyways, I just knew suddenly I

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Speaker 6: was like, I have to visit this place. And I

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Speaker 6: wasn't thinking about a film or anything, you know, and

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Speaker 6: I and had such an impact, you know, just the

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Speaker 6: space and really like I felt such melanchol like this,

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Speaker 6: you know, you feel this hope and possibility of a time,

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Speaker 6: you know, where people really felt like they could make

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Speaker 6: a difference by the spaces they created and I just

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Speaker 6: after I left, I had thought, or even in the moment,

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Speaker 6: I thought, I have to make a film here because

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Speaker 6: there's such a story that exists in the city. And

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Speaker 6: at the time, I was starting to think about parental

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Speaker 6: like this, this relationship between children and parents, and yeah,

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Speaker 6: and then so I went back and started talking to

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Speaker 6: some people about it, and you know, I've talked to

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Speaker 6: some people who are like, oh, people don't know any

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Speaker 6: you know, and all of that kind of thing. And then, yeah,

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Speaker 6: I started visiting. I didn't take a tour. I just

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Speaker 6: started visiting places and I read about it, and I was,

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Speaker 6: you know, struggling about and kind of working through things

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Speaker 6: as I was sort of writing it. So it had

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Speaker 6: really the writing came from the space itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: During the last Q and A, I was trying to

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Speaker 2: make some connections between the films we've been watching here today.

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Speaker 2: And not only is Pather Panchali, which you were here

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Speaker 2: for earlier and you heard the great Q and A

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Speaker 2: that Josh and Dana did. Not only is that a

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Speaker 2: film very much about the relationship between parents and children,

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Speaker 2: but I was thinking about the line the mother says

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Speaker 2: near the end about how she she suddenly doesn't feel

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Speaker 2: like she has any connection to this place that she lived,

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Speaker 2: and this ancestral home is no longer connecting with her.

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Speaker 2: And there's a line similar actually in this, you know,

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Speaker 2: along the lines of like I no longer it's Jin's

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Speaker 2: line about people you can grow up around a space

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Speaker 2: and basically, you know, take it for granted. Your line's

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Speaker 2: more eloquent than my paraphrase. I apologize, but you know,

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Speaker 2: and then in the end the decision to ultimately move

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Speaker 2: on or stay put and embrace. In a way, I'm

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Speaker 2: making a connection that Jin is someone who, even though

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Speaker 2: this is not his ancestral home, by choosing to stay

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Speaker 2: at the end, coming to that conclusion as long as

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Speaker 2: he's needed there, he is embracing his heritage. He's embracing

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Speaker 2: his past in a way that he didn't come to

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Speaker 2: town expecting to do that. I guess my question for

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Speaker 2: you is, did any of that as you were watching

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Speaker 2: pother pun Joli resonate and has it previously when it

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Speaker 2: comes to satutaries work.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I love Ray and I had not seen that

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Speaker 6: film in a long time, but yeah, I felt resonance

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Speaker 6: and the conversation Josh that you were having with Dana

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Speaker 6: about modernity, and you know, I was, yeah, I was

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Speaker 6: very much thinking about that, you know, because I think

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Speaker 6: it is the crisis of modernity is ongoing, you know,

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Speaker 6: to try to understand it. But I love it. I

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Speaker 6: love that people are trying to find meaning in the

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Speaker 6: context of the modern you know, and that is outside.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: Part of the thing about modernity is you're letting go

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Speaker 6: of tradition and religion, and but we still crave meaning,

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Speaker 6: right and there's still that search. And I was thinking

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Speaker 6: when I saw it today, you know, when she's walking

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Speaker 6: down something very simple of like trying to get a job,

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Speaker 6: you know, and she's at the New Republic, and I

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Speaker 6: was just thinking about when you're young, at that age,

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Speaker 6: you know, you're just trying to figure out what you're

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Speaker 6: going to do, and you're just craving a sense of

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Speaker 6: purpose and meaning. And that is again like what it

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Speaker 6: means to be modern beings. And I don't necessarily want

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Speaker 6: it to you know, like harken back to tradition, which

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Speaker 6: is never not necessarily kind with to people of color

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Speaker 6: or if you're a woman, or something like that. You know,

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Speaker 6: but you still there's still that absence and void and

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Speaker 6: I was just thinking about that. You know, she's walking

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Speaker 6: to get a job, but then the space itself is

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Speaker 6: trying to create me. And that's the thing about the

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Speaker 6: modern movement was there was a period of time where

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Speaker 6: people thought they could create something that really could change

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Speaker 6: the world or could heal and I long for that.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 6: The truth is, you know, like the absence of that

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Speaker 6: just creating something for reaction or something. But you know,

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Speaker 6: I still, you know, want to believe that art, that

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Speaker 6: there's something there that we can discover.

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Speaker 2: Saying I've seen this film I think at least three

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Speaker 2: times before tonight, and never really paid close attention or

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Speaker 2: gave much meaning to the discussion of marginalia. But as

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Speaker 2: you're talking about finding meaning, doesn't marginalia it it begs you,

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Speaker 2: It forces you to try to find meaning in it,

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Speaker 2: because I mean it's a mystery, right Like you're you're

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Speaker 2: trying to piece together the contextual clues, and they're just

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Speaker 2: like later in the film, we see them talking about

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Speaker 2: what is what his dad wrote? What does it actually mean?

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Speaker 6: Isn't that?

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Speaker 2: Isn't that the that's like architecture to the building doesn't

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Speaker 2: tell you how to feel about it, right or what

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Speaker 2: to think about it. You have to decide what context

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Speaker 2: matters and what it'll ultimately means to you. But even

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Speaker 2: what we're doing here tonight and talking about film, trying

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Speaker 2: to make film, isn't it all just about trying to

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Speaker 2: find meaning?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I my existence is a struggle, right,

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Speaker 6: I'm trying to diveit. And so for me, it is

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Speaker 6: like so much of this I look at it and think, oh,

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Speaker 6: at the time, I thought maybe this is the only

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Speaker 6: thing I'll ever make. And I had young kids, and

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Speaker 6: I was just like what you know, and so yeah,

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Speaker 6: and I think that's right. I think that that's you know,

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Speaker 6: any opportunity that we all have, you know, in this world.

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Speaker 6: You know, we're we're always kind of trying to figure

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Speaker 6: that out. And Marginal Yeah, I mean I was obsessed

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Speaker 6: with Marginelli at the time. You know, I was a

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Speaker 6: real nerdy person who like, if I saw it, I

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Speaker 6: was like, oh, there's some you know, this is going

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Speaker 6: to help me like figure out my life unlock. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 6: that's right. And I used to write things that were

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Speaker 6: just like, you know, like the Serial Killers. I would

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Speaker 6: just write little lines of things like nothing and you know,

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Speaker 6: and I just thought of anyone ever found that.

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Speaker 2: They were just like, what is you know, why is

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Speaker 2: he my notes tonight from novie that I can't even

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Speaker 2: read now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, there's a Did anyone recognize the

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Speaker 6: pen that she was using? Anyway? What kind of pen

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Speaker 6: is it? Say? There we go my nerve, my fellow,

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So I put all these study

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Speaker 6: you know, I used to carry this one notebook. I

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Speaker 6: just like it's embarrassing, but I loved it.

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Speaker 4: So you've briefly talked about your feelings outside of your

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Speaker 4: ray and Powler Pancholie. I love hearing filmmakers talk about

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Speaker 4: the work of other filmmakers. So I want to take

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Speaker 4: this opportunity because it's fresh on my mind with Bang

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Speaker 4: Juno having a new movie coming out next week. Mickey seventeen.

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Speaker 4: I finally took the time to watch the last two

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Speaker 4: features of his I hadn't seen so Barking Dogs Never

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Speaker 4: Bite and then Mother Actually I had not seen yet.

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Speaker 6: So did that complete it?

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Speaker 4: You're the features for the features? Yeah, so it's yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm processing still. It was just a few few days ago,

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Speaker 4: but yeah, what what do you make of his? His films?

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Speaker 4: And you know, thinking whether you have a favorite or

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Speaker 4: you have some I imagine you don't have any holes

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Speaker 4: you need to film.

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Speaker 6: No, no, no, I mean yeah, I mean I just

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Speaker 6: can't wait to watch his new film. I think Memories

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Speaker 6: of a Murder is probably the film that I love.

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Speaker 6: But I you know, I just recently watched Parasite again,

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Speaker 6: you know, and it's just you know, my son and

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Speaker 6: I were talking about it and I said, just like that,

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Speaker 6: I think that's a flawless as far as like the

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Speaker 6: execution and every shot. And I was like, I think

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Speaker 6: the only flaw might be that it is flawless, you

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Speaker 6: know that it has you know that maybe I want

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Speaker 6: a little bit because it just feels like such a

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Speaker 6: perfectly constructed film, you know, like I it's you know,

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Speaker 6: so but I like Memories of Murder because you know,

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Speaker 6: and I love first films, you know, and I and

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Speaker 6: you know, I probably you know, maybe I'll never make

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Speaker 6: a film, you know, in some ways, I mean, this

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Speaker 6: is so perfect or whatever. But I you know, if

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Speaker 6: people ask me what's your favorite Wes Anderson, I will

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Speaker 6: like say Bottle Rockets or Rushmore, because there is something

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Speaker 6: about that that first film that is to me always

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Speaker 6: stays with me, you know, you know, and like I

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Speaker 6: like Sydney or Hard Aid and all of that kind

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Speaker 6: of stuff, you know that there is something and so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Actually I mentioned this last night, I think,

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Speaker 2: just out at the bar as we were having a conversation.

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Speaker 2: John Irving, the writer talks about the importance of first

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Speaker 2: novels and says they're always the best because they've been

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Speaker 2: working their whole life up to that point on it, right,

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Speaker 2: whether they knew it or consciously were doing it.

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Speaker 4: And Ryan Johnson even mentioned after Brick, I think he

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Speaker 4: called out once or twice Coen Brothers Miller's Croftsing, which

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Speaker 4: again not a first film, but in that early period

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Speaker 4: where you could I think it falls into that category

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Speaker 4: with Rush Marrett.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember if I've mentioned this too or not,

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Speaker 2: but last fall I taught I'm going to teach it again,

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Speaker 2: but I was teaching a new class producing film criticism

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Speaker 2: at the University of Bio when the journalism school and

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Speaker 2: the students were journalism students, not film students. So that

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Speaker 2: was part of the fun, is getting to talk to

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Speaker 2: them about film language and getting into shots, selection and

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Speaker 2: angles and you know, editing the whole thing and the

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Speaker 2: film that I made them watch first in the class

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Speaker 2: to then show me that they could apply their understanding

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Speaker 2: of those formal techniques was Columbus. I felt like it

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Speaker 2: was perfect for that also because I thought, as college students,

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Speaker 2: they could potentially relate, you know, very much to Casey's

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Speaker 2: situation and a line that we gave a lot of

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Speaker 2: attention to, so it'd be funny if now you tell us, no,

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean anything significant behind it whatsoever. But I

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Speaker 2: loved the conversation early in the film between Casey and

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Speaker 2: her mom when her mother is critiquing the soup that

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Speaker 2: she made and she she feels like it doesn't quite

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Speaker 2: have enough flavor, needs a little bit more spice, and

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Speaker 2: she says, you know, I was going for something more nuanced, right,

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Speaker 2: feels to me a little bit like a perfect summation

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Speaker 2: of the the understanding and a good artist probably has

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Speaker 2: about their their relationship to their audience that that they

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Speaker 2: may be trying to go for something that they think

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Speaker 2: is very nuanced, and they want those those flavors to linger,

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Speaker 2: and and they've put all this deliberation into how it's

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Speaker 2: going to go, and some people are just going to say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wanted more spice.

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Speaker 6: Right, yeah, yeah, it's planned. Yeah, Now there was nothing significant, No,

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Speaker 6: there was a very yeah. You know, at the time,

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Speaker 6: I was working on a dissertation about o Zoo and

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Speaker 6: and you know Ozoo talks about aftertaste all the time,

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Speaker 6: you know, and and you know he used to always say, oh,

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Speaker 6: I'm just making tofu and and I never finished my dissertation.

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Speaker 6: You know. I was just like had all this stuff

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Speaker 6: in my head about graduate school, like yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 6: see it again. It is like I heard him say that.

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Speaker 6: I was like, anyone else quit graduate school? Like is

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Speaker 6: there any no no good good?

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 6: The I like how he reacted to like, that's not

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Speaker 6: you know, that's exactly I was feeling to, you know,

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Speaker 6: and that I think about that all the time, you know,

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Speaker 6: because Ozo was in such a he he was making

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Speaker 6: I think it meant and his writer it meant a lot.

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Speaker 6: They were trying to figure that out a little bit.

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Speaker 6: And uh, you know, and he's often accused of being

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Speaker 6: bland if it doesn't resonate with you, but he was

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Speaker 6: like really in search of that, you know, and I

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Speaker 6: I just you know, and we're living at a certain

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Speaker 6: moment political moment I just wanted to say too. I mean,

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Speaker 6: in Dana, if you're here, I apologize that I'm going

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Speaker 6: to talk about is Dana here, Hi, Dana. I'm gonna

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Speaker 6: talk about Oz a little bit. But there is a

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Speaker 6: like his films. Really, if I was still an acadedemic,

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Speaker 6: I would write something about like the politics of Tofu

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Speaker 6: because his films are never explicitly political. I say that

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Speaker 6: because you know, we're living in certain times, but in

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Speaker 6: some ways his films are like a Saja ray or

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Speaker 6: a Karistami who they don't ever like, They're not like

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Speaker 6: I'm making a political movie. But there was something about

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Speaker 6: their taste for humanity that has had more profound political

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Speaker 6: impact in me than anything than the ones that are

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Speaker 6: very political, because it deepened my sense, you know, I

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Speaker 6: think I just became more you know, you know, liberal,

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Speaker 6: more connected, more like there was a deep like taste

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Speaker 6: for humanity and difference. And I just say that because

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Speaker 6: in our time things are going to you know whatever.

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Speaker 6: But there is in the realm of art this need,

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Speaker 6: I think, for things to exist that may not be

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Speaker 6: explicitly political, but we have to retain a taste of

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Speaker 6: humanity in a time in which you just want to

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Speaker 6: vilify and dehumanize the whatever, you know, And so there

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Speaker 6: was something I just remember that all of that was

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Speaker 6: in my head, you know a little bit.

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Speaker 4: I think that's why Tangerine, which we started our day out,

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Speaker 4: I frame in political terms, even though it is not

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Speaker 4: a very overtly political movie. But I think it isn't

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Speaker 4: exactly the way you're talking about the common humanity, the

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Speaker 4: recognition of difference, and yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, eber like to have empathy, like a

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Speaker 6: cinema of empathy is has such profound impact, you know.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I don't know if there was any political

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Speaker 4: motivation behind this particular choice in Columbus, but the recurring

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Speaker 4: decision to observe characters from a room away, so it's

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Speaker 4: often there will be a doorway and we may not

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Speaker 4: even see them in their entirety, or they'll come in

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Speaker 4: and out, but we're often in the next room. What

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Speaker 4: was the sort of reasoning the logic? Was it strictly

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Speaker 4: esthetic because it provides nice framing? Yeah, what were you

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Speaker 4: thinking about in having that be a constant?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I just let me just say this about film spotting, Okay,

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Speaker 6: because you guys are such good viewers and again, the

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Speaker 6: things that you champion and the way it's just like

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Speaker 6: really important. I think. I think the other thing about

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Speaker 6: being Chicago's I just remember that there was this rhythm

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Speaker 6: you guys were a part of it, right of watching

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Speaker 6: films and talking about films, and it was like Fridays,

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Speaker 6: all the reviews came out. I would read the Reader

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Speaker 6: and the Tribune and then you, and there was like

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Speaker 6: this feeling that you were a part of some larger conversation,

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Speaker 6: which I do feel like is sort of missing. But

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Speaker 6: I think like the film spottings the blank checks, that

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Speaker 6: that kind of the letterbox is kind of creating this

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Speaker 6: desperate conversation. So anyways, thank you for being such an

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Speaker 6: insightful viewer and asking area. I mean, really, I think

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Speaker 6: is so vital to kind of keep this this medium alive,

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Speaker 6: which I feel encouraged by just by seeing everybody here.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, for me, if you're trying to struggle to

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Speaker 6: find meaning in a modern world, the context of that

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Speaker 6: is absence, right, You're trying to understand it in this

433
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 6: sort of knowing that how do we deal with absence?

434
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 3: Right?

435
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,719
Speaker 6: And the big death in this film, I knew that

436
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 6: the dad was going to sort of represent big death,

437
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,959
Speaker 6: but really the story was going to be about this

438
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 6: small death, which is any goodbye you have to say

439
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 6: to anyone who you love and is not the final goodbye.

440
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,400
Speaker 6: And I just like when children leave their parents, there's

441
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 6: something both beautiful, like it's necessary and at the end

442
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 6: of something, you know. And I just knew that that

443
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 6: echo would be throughout because I wanted to constantly play

444
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 6: this relationship between spaces that are both filled with people

445
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 6: and absent of people. And you know, I think that's

446
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 6: the other thing about first films is like I was

447
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 6: just so new. I just thought I was allowed, you know,

448
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 6: and I did, you know, because now I would, you know,

449
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 6: it didn't cost a lot of money to make the film,

450
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 6: but I was just like, oh, yeah, you know. Nowadays

451
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 6: you get just noted to death, like well, how cover

452
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 6: we don't see people and all of that, you know,

453
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 6: and I have to fight for it. But back then,

454
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 6: I just was like, Yeah, they're just going to talk

455
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 6: to someone and you're never going to see them or

456
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 6: that you're not going to hear their voices and you're

457
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 6: not going to see what they see. And it just

458
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 6: was so thrilling for me, you know, And I didn't

459
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 6: know any better, and I just thought, I'm gonna make

460
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 6: it if no one want, you know, so, but yeah,

461
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 6: that felt really important, that relationship.

462
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 2: I can't believe we only have a couple of minutes left,

463
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: but I did want to at least get this out there.

464
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 2: And we're talking about parents and children. So I'm very

465
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 2: happy to have my daughter Sophie here, Tony. Do you

466
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: get a chance to meet you know, she's oh Sophie, Yeah,

467
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: round of applause, Jill, that one inflater ego at all.

468
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 2: But as you know, big fan of your work, big

469
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 2: fan of this film was whereas as well as after

470
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 2: Yang and so I said, you know, what's the thing

471
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 2: you'd got to know? I'll pose it to him. I

472
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: know somebody I'll ask him the question I said, And

473
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 2: so here is her question. How do you think your

474
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: time as a critic and academic has impacted your creative process?

475
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: Did you always know you wanted to create and that

476
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: you had the capacity for it, and then did you

477
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 2: ever feel inhibited by it? You devoted great video essays

478
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 2: and dissected the work and the meaning and in the

479
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 2: emotion and everything that you love about o Zoo and

480
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: Wesa and Brassan. I think that's what she's getting at

481
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 2: when asking about feeling inhibited. Ever ever feel like, well,

482
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 2: how can I compete with these filmmakers?

483
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 6: Oh? Yeah, one hundred percent? You know, yeah, I mean

484
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 6: it never feels like, uh yeah, yeah, the answer is yes.

485
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 6: I think I feel, you know, uh, like that's unattainable.

486
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 6: And but I enjoyed the pursuit of it. But I

487
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 6: don't think I'll ever attain all the people that really

488
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 6: have had I don't, you know, I think I am

489
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 6: my best. I'm just trying to pursue something that had,

490
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 6: you know, that whatever they were chasing after, I want

491
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 6: to chase after it, even how imperfectly. But you know,

492
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 6: it is a part like I don't like critics, and

493
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 6: you know, I'm so excited to meet Dana because I've

494
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 6: been reading her forever, you know, and you guys can

495
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 6: hate my films in the future and stuff I don't like.

496
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 6: I don't not trying to flatter you guys to get

497
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 6: good red, because you guys can genuinely hate it. But

498
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 6: I do feel like that's like a part of a

499
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,479
Speaker 6: like that you you know, like, as a critic, you

500
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 6: are writing about it. I think or you're interacting with

501
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 6: it because you love it or you want to love it,

502
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 6: or you want it think you know. And so even

503
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 6: as a filmmaker, I still feel that side of it.

504
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 6: But you know, there's that side of like gen and

505
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 6: I think when I was writing about it, part of

506
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 6: the reason why I'm so glad to actually be making

507
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 6: it is I was getting you can also get really

508
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 6: cynical when it becomes a kind of you know, the

509
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 6: academia was kind of killing it. For me, to be honest,

510
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 6: I found myself like having to dissect a zoo in

511
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 6: a way that I felt like I was killing it.

512
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 6: And that's a lot of that. The gen part of

513
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 6: it that was, you know, like I was putting a

514
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 6: conversation between young me who was like coming alive to

515
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,479
Speaker 6: art and it was changing me and this me that

516
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 6: I was like writing about and I was trying to

517
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 6: understand you know that too. That was a bit of

518
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 6: a conversation that I was having.

519
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, looking to head to where you know your

520
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 4: work might go, and thinking still about locations or even

521
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 4: just space because I think in after Yang the sense

522
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 4: of space is so crucial as well. Is there a

523
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: place you would like to like a dream place you'd

524
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 4: like to film. You may not even know what the

525
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 4: story is yet, and maybe it's a building, maybe it's

526
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 4: a city or a region, and yeah, have you have

527
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 4: you been somewhere sometime? I like to make something.

528
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 6: You know, I've just finished making maybe the biggest one'll

529
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 6: over make and it's like a you know, it's whatever.

530
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 6: And I just have such a taste to make something

531
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 6: really small again, you know. And my cinematographer and I

532
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 6: were just talking about this very thing, like let's just

533
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 6: do something that's not a part of the machine and

534
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 6: get back to it. And all we're talking about right

535
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 6: now is like a place, like what is the place

536
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 6: that we want to shoot? So we're actually literally having

537
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 6: that discussion. But I will mention something that's not like I,

538
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 6: you know, I I've often wanted to shoot in Taipei

539
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 6: when I was there, it's like such a mix of

540
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 6: the ancient and the mod You can go down an

541
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 6: alley that feels like a thousand years old and then

542
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 6: turn around the corner and just be you know so,

543
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 6: and then it's like ye, you know Edward Jang, So

544
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 6: just like, oh god, I would love to shoot and

545
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 6: type I'd love to shoot in Hong Kong. But we're

546
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 6: going to really answer that because we're like looking at

547
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 6: cities right now to do something really independent, small encounter. What, Yeah, do.

548
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 2: You want to take a moment here as we wind

549
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: down to thank Rebecca Fons and Emily Long and Jack

550
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: and Blair and everybody here the Gene Siskel Film Center,

551
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 2: who's just made this day so wonderful.

552
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 4: Thank you so much day.

553
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: And you know you were you were just talking about

554
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: as critics, you know, wanting to love films, And I'll

555
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 2: go back to what we've been talking about. Yes, that's true,

556
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 2: but it's also I think even more than that, about

557
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: trying to find meaning and trying to find meeting in

558
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: your response to the film. Ultimately, I think is what

559
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: really drives us and I think a lot of critics.

560
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: So this has been part of that process tonight. And

561
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 2: I just twenty years. Twenty years.

562
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 4: That's amazing, And I can tell you.

563
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 2: How humbled and honored and grateful we are to have

564
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: you take your time to be part of it.

565
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 6: Think we've got to rush up a king answer. I

566
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 6: was thinking about a question for you, which is like,

567
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 6: what was the like you started this before people knew

568
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 6: what podcasts were. Can you just quickly tell me what

569
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 6: with the spark of like there's any thing?

570
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: Sure? Well, Sam out there. We wanted to talk about

571
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: films together. We needed an outlet, we needed an excuse

572
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: and as Sam has said recently, everyone film spotting listeners

573
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 2: will love this. We needed some mistakes. You know, it

574
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 2: couldn't it couldn't just be us talking in a vacuum.

575
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: We wanted to be judged. We wanted other people to

576
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: listen to it. We we had to be on the

577
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 2: hook for you know, seeing something every week and processing

578
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: it and talking about it with each other and delivering

579
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: the show every week. You know, that was what it was,

580
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 2: and so we committed to that. We didn't know we'd

581
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 2: be sitting here twenty years later with the likes the

582
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 2: likes of you, but like that was it. It was.

583
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: We just loved having conversations with each other about film

584
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: and the fact that we still get to do this

585
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: today with Sam, with Josh, of course, it's it's special.

586
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: This whole fest so far has been really wonderful. Thank

587
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 2: you to all of you who have many happened.

588
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's great, that's good.

589
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:08,719
Speaker 2: Coganada. Everyone our heartfelt thanks to Coganada again for joining

590
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: us at Film Spotting Fest back in March. Columbus is

591
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: available VOD on most platforms and you can probably get

592
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: it via Canopy through your library. His new film, A Big, Bold,

593
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: Beautiful Journey hits theaters on September nineteenth.

594
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through

595
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 3: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton

596
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 3: Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real

597
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Speaker 3: time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize

598
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Speaker 3: your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your

599
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Speaker 3: goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, to

600
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Speaker 3: push and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training tread

601
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: Plus at one Peloton dot com.

602
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: As far back as I can remember, I always wanted

603
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: to be a gangster Fild. That's from What Else Goodfellas,

604
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: which celebrates it's thirty fifth anniversary this month. Next week,

605
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: Josh and I will give it the Pantheon Project Treatment,

606
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: an in depth review of Scorsese's beloved nineteen ninety film,

607
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: which has been in the Film Spotting Pantheon are eccentrically

608
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: assembled Movie Hall of Fame since two thousand and seven.

609
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: Along with that, we may have thoughts on a few

610
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: more new and recent releases and results from the current

611
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: deeply flawed Film Spotting poll asking you to choose one

612
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: and only one animation Studio Pixar or Studio Jubilee, Buzzanwooty

613
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: or your neighbor Totoro. Vote in that poll and leave

614
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: a comment at filmspotting dot net. Now playing on our

615
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, looking at Cinemas Present

616
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: via its Past. It's a good one, Part two of

617
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: their The Kids Are Not Alright Pairing Weapons and Adam

618
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: mcgoian's nineteen ninety eight Oscar nominee and one of my

619
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: favorite films and books, The Sweet Hereafter. New episodes of

620
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday wherever you get

621
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: your podcasts. A bit of Rabbi Shankar score for Satage

622
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: It raised landmark nineteen fifty five film Pather Panchali Raised.

623
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 2: Film was part of the Saturday lineup at the Cisco

624
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: Film Center at Film Spotting Fest. Earlier this year, Film

625
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: Spotting Fest was our three day, six film celebration of

626
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: twenty years of this show, and Saturday was a marathon.

627
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: We appreciate everybody who toughed it out, all of the films,

628
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: all three films that were part of that day, and

629
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: all the Q and a's actually four films that day,

630
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: starting with an eleven AM screening of Sean Baker's Tangerine

631
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: that was followed by a conversation about the movie with

632
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: Vulture critic Alison Wilmore. We shared the audio from that

633
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: Q and A that discussion on episode ten ten earlier

634
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: this year. Then it was Jeff nichols twenty eleven film

635
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: Take Shelter. Allison's former podcast partner Matt Singer joined us

636
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: for a very per conversation about that one. We're going

637
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: to share that later this year. Up next was Pather

638
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: Ponschali raised masterpiece right out of the gate debut film

639
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: and the first film and what became the Appu Trilogy,

640
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: which traced the life of Bengali boy from real childhood

641
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: to school and love and work in the city. After

642
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: that screening, Josh welcomed Slate Culture Gabfest critic Dana Stevens

643
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: to the stage. Here's their chat.

644
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 4: Dana of Slate, of course and the veteran of many

645
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 4: film spotting live shows. We were trying to figure out

646
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 4: four or five. Is that what we thought?

647
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe.

648
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 5: So we've done one in New York and we've done

649
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 5: three here.

650
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 4: So and you were a listener well before.

651
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I was thinking about the chronology you started

652
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 5: in two thousand and.

653
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: Five, that's right, Yeah, I was.

654
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 5: I was not yet a film critic then. I actually

655
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 5: became Slate film critic the following year. I was doing

656
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 5: some work and freelancing for Slate and things like that,

657
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 5: but I became a film critic almost exactly when your

658
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 5: podcast began.

659
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: So we kind of grew up together.

660
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. And I was reading you from the beginning

661
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 4: on Slate and just following your career.

662
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: Well, I was listening from the beginning, so.

663
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 4: It works well. And yeah, as a matter of fact,

664
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 4: so I joined the show twenty twelve, and not long

665
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 4: after that is when we'll see if you remember this,

666
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: we did Film Spotting four hundred live here with Michael

667
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: Phillips from the Chicago Tribune. Do you remember what our

668
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 4: top five was for that show? No, I forget the

669
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 4: top fives myself. We did top five things we learned

670
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 4: from the movie. So I wanted to share one of

671
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: your picks here that you did from back then, and

672
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 4: I think it's applicable to our current state of affairs.

673
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 4: You said one thing you learned from the movies is

674
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 4: keep on going no matter what, drawn from Buster Keaton's

675
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 4: One Week, which of course makes sense. You also joined

676
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 4: us in twenty twenty two to promote your book on

677
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 4: Keaton Cameraman, and we screened wonderful book. If you don't

678
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 4: have it, check it out. We screened Cameraman there and yeah,

679
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 4: talked about it afterwards. So thanks for sticking with us

680
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 4: all these years.

681
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's a pleasure to be asked back. You know.

682
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 5: It's funny because both of those things that you just

683
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 5: mentioned relate back to this film in a way. First

684
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 5: of all, satur Diibray was a huge fan of Buster

685
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 5: Keaton and grew up watching Keaton and Chaplin and Lloyd

686
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 5: and lots of Western cinema, probably more than he watched

687
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 5: Indian cinema and that, so that was a big part

688
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 5: of his formation. And also, what is the message of

689
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 5: the end of this film if not keep on going

690
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 5: no matter what?

691
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, no doubt. So we're going to get to Poler

692
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 4: Punchali for sure. But I did given that sort of

693
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 4: shared history we've had. I did want to start with

694
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 4: a general podcasting question, if you don't mind, So I

695
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 4: you know, started listening to Slate Culture gab Fest as well.

696
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 4: So we both have a somewhat similar path in that

697
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 4: we started as critics as writers and thought about what

698
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: the craft was in that way, and then shifted to

699
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 4: this podcast format. So can you talk a little bit

700
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: about how that shift went for you? And if you

701
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 4: think how you think about the two differently, you still

702
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 4: do both. I continue to write, and what's that switch

703
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 4: like when you flip het or you do not feel

704
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 4: like it's a switchrest.

705
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: It's definitely a switch, okay.

706
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 5: And then often I'll write and podcast on the same film,

707
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 5: which is a good chance to go back and revisit

708
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 5: in whichever comes second, right, what you didn't get to

709
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 5: the first time around.

710
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: I mean, not at all to integrate what.

711
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 5: We do as podcasters, but I will say that podcasting.

712
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: On a movie is much much easier than writing on it.

713
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 5: I mean, if you think about it, I think, if

714
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 5: after you see a movie and you were sitting with

715
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 5: a friend, would you rather talk about it into a

716
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 5: mic for fifteen minutes? Which is what I do on

717
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 5: the podcast, or sit and painfully try to create express

718
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 5: in words how you felt about it for you know,

719
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 5: six to ten hours. I mean, it's just it's more

720
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 5: labor intensive to write about something.

721
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 4: So what is your preparation for going on culture app Fest?

722
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 4: If you know, let's say it's a movie you haven't

723
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 4: written about. What sort of prep do you go through?

724
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 4: Do you have notes down? Have you written like a

725
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,720
Speaker 4: rough draft review that's not necessarily going to be published

726
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: tech in notes?

727
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 5: Because I feel like when you're sitting behind a mic,

728
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 5: and I'm sure you guys, because how spontaneous you sound,

729
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 5: you don't. You may bring in notes, but you don't

730
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 5: script anything about what you say, right. That is what

731
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 5: makes it a free flowing conversation. Now, I just try

732
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 5: to be as reasonably prepared as I can. I mean

733
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 5: it's never enough. You always feel like, oh, I should

734
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 5: have seen more films by this director. If it's something

735
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 5: that you really need to have seen, like the prequel, right,

736
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 5: or the prior thing in the series, or sometimes if

737
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 5: it's based on a really really well known popular book,

738
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 5: I'll try to read at least some of the book, right.

739
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 5: If it's it's the kind of movie that most people

740
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 5: seeing it would have read the book that I want

741
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 5: to come in with a little knowledge of the book too.

742
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think the same as you. I'm probably

743
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 5: just cramming as fast as I can to try to

744
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 5: have something to say.

745
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 4: A lot of cramming, and I think I've found the

746
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 4: sort of the magic trick is to yes, sound that

747
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 4: sort of casual and spontaneous and certainly genuinely bring a

748
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 4: lot of that. But at least I found I have

749
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 4: to like have a lot of preparation to build on

750
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 4: or to rely upon, or to have that somewhere in

751
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 4: the background.

752
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I.

753
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 5: Mean you have to have you know, I'll often print

754
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 5: out the cast list or you know, if it's an

755
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 5: older film, I'll sort of learn something about the production history,

756
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 5: as I did for this, because you don't want to

757
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 5: go in there just saying here's a movie.

758
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: I saw it lasted two hours, because.

759
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 5: That movie obviously comes from a whole history of other movies.

760
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: And that creator's other work and so.

761
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 4: Forth, let's start with that production history, because I know,

762
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 4: being a researcher as you are, that you did take

763
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 4: the time to look into some of that beyond what

764
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 4: you already knew for powtherer Punchali, So yeah, can you

765
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 4: share some of that with us? You already alluded to

766
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 4: Ray being a fan of Keaton. I know that he

767
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 4: was very influenced by Western cinema. But maybe what's some

768
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 4: other production history stuff or time of release stuff that

769
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 4: might be good?

770
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 5: Yeah here, But I mean for this film in particular,

771
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 5: it really I think helps you. It enriches your understanding

772
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 5: of the movie and it also just makes your jaw

773
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 5: drop to the ground to hear some of the production

774
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 5: history of this movie, because first of all, it's his

775
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 5: debut film, right like Satigira had never made a film before.

776
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 5: Not only that, his cinematographer who he had just met.

777
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,919
Speaker 5: I'll tell you how they met in a second whose

778
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 5: name is and I wrote it down so I don't

779
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 5: get all of these Indian names mixed up. Subrata Mitra

780
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 5: who remained his DP for quite a while. He did

781
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 5: all three of the Apu film for example, but Subartimitra

782
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 5: had never picked up a.

783
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: Film camera before.

784
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 5: He had worked as an assistant with Genre Noir who

785
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 5: came to India to make the movie The River. And

786
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 5: this was how Satigit Ray part of how SATIGITRAI decided

787
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 5: that he wanted to become a filmmaker. Is that in

788
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 5: Calcutta where he lived, the great French filmmaker geenre Noir

789
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 5: came to make a movie called The River that's about

790
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 5: colonialist It is about an English colonial family in India

791
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 5: and it's one of Martin Scorsesei's film favorite films actually.

792
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: Which I didn't know.

793
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 5: And satigit Ray, who was about twenty nine thirty at

794
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 5: the time a huge film fan, sort of hung out

795
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 5: and watched some of the filming and became friends with

796
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 5: Jean Renir and just sat around and talked to him

797
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 5: about a movie he would like to make, which eventually

798
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 5: became Pather Panchali. And it was on that set that

799
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 5: he met this young man twenty years old who was

800
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 5: handling the camera and sort of production assistant stuff, and

801
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 5: that was Sumatra Miitra, who became his cinematographer. So all

802
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 5: of this came together in a very kind.

803
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: Of diy way.

804
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 5: Satigit Ray was a graphic designer at the time and

805
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 5: a book illustrator, you know, basically worked in commercial art

806
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 5: and had illustrated the novel that Pather Panchali is based

807
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 5: on and you can look at his illustrations and some

808
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 5: of them become actual images.

809
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: In the movie.

810
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 5: That moment when Dorga and Apu are sitting under the

811
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 5: monsoon and she's wrapping him in her shawl looks almost

812
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: exactly like an illustration that he made for the book.

813
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: So he storyboarded it.

814
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 5: He had it all in his brain, but it took

815
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 5: a really long time for him to raise the money

816
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 5: to make it, including during filming. So it took I

817
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 5: think about two and a half years to film this

818
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 5: because they had to keep breaking off because they ran

819
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 5: out of money. They got some money from the Bengali government,

820
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 5: and they got some money from different investors, but they

821
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 5: would run out and he would have to go back

822
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 5: to his graphic design job and keep working. At one

823
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 5: point he tells the story that they want they needed

824
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 5: to film the monsoon and they missed monsoon season because

825
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 5: they didn't have money at that time, so they had

826
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 5: to wait for the next year in order to film that.

827
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 4: And do you know much about the release? I mean,

828
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: we think of it now as this world cinema classic.

829
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 4: Was that a reputation that took a while to get

830
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 4: other Was it fairly immediate after the release. Do you

831
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 4: have much of that?

832
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that brings up a whole wider fact

833
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 5: about film history, which is sort of the whole idea

834
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 5: of an international success was pretty new at this moment,

835
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 5: Like Rashaman.

836
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: At least the Western release.

837
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 5: Of Rashamon, I think was nineteen fifty, the Kurosawa movie

838
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 5: that you know, sort of broke through. It sort of

839
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 5: brought Asian cinema to the West in a big way,

840
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 5: and so I think it was only it only would

841
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 5: have been after nineteen fifty that anybody would have even

842
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 5: thought about bringing an Indian film to the West, and

843
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 5: certainly kind of indie where you could consider this an

844
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 5: indie film in a way, it's not any part of

845
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 5: the studio.

846
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,479
Speaker 1: System itself financed, et cetera.

847
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 5: For that to break through is even more unusual, and

848
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 5: I think in a way the long production history helped

849
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 5: with that because during this period that he was agonizingly

850
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 5: raising funds and his wife sold her jewelry and you know,

851
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 5: they did all these things to get the film made.

852
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: A lot of people saw the footage.

853
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 5: He was showing bits of it to different investors to

854
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 5: try to get interest in it, and that included some

855
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 5: Western people, so Renoir.

856
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: Was one of them.

857
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 5: And there was a guy from New York from MoMA,

858
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 5: I think, who came to India to do some research

859
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 5: and saw some of it, and then MoMA ended up

860
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 5: giving him some money to finish filming it. In fact,

861
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 5: this was seen in New York before it was ever

862
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 5: seen in India. They brought it for some kind of

863
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 5: Indian festival at MoMA, sort of an art display or

864
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 5: something like that, and it was considered enough of a

865
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: splash there that then it came back to Calcutta and

866
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 5: started to be seen.

867
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: So it was a bit of a slow rollout.

868
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 5: But Pauline Kle wrote about it, you know, people, lots

869
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 5: of people at the time did. Actually Paulin Kle would

870
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 5: have been a bit later than that. But Bosley Crowther

871
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 5: of The New York Times wrote a sort of strangely

872
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 5: exoticizing and racist review of it. He did like the movie,

873
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 5: but I actually wrote down a couple of the things

874
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 5: he said, because it gives you a bit of an

875
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 5: idea of what the mainstream press sounded like when talking

876
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 5: about Asian film. He said that it was a baffling

877
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 5: mosaic of candid and crude domestic scenes, and he wrapped

878
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 5: it up saying, as we say, it is quite.

879
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: Exotic, you know.

880
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 5: So he kind of regarded it as this exotic curiosity

881
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 5: very slow. He thought it was way too slow, but

882
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 5: it did slowly start to make an impression, and by

883
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 5: the late fifties it was a beloved film.

884
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 4: All right, Well, let's let's hear from a better critic

885
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 4: you about how how you interact with this movie, your

886
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 4: personal history with it, if you have much, or like

887
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 4: when you first saw it, what you made of it

888
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 4: after screening it today. The word that kept popping into

889
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: my mind this afternoon was purity. And I don't mean

890
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 4: that in the moral sense. I mean like an elemental sense,

891
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 4: like if maybe if there was a cinematic periodic table,

892
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 4: Pather Panchali would have to be on it. All right,

893
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 4: I don't know what I mean by that, but it's

894
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 4: just like it's so it's basic elemental.

895
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what you mean.

896
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: So that was my impression today. But what Yeah, when

897
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 4: did you remember when you first saw it? And yeah,

898
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 4: if your feelings about it have changed over time and

899
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 4: where they were at.

900
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: Today, I do.

901
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 5: I'm I know that this is the first Ray film

902
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 5: that I saw, and I believe I probably saw it

903
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 5: at the Pacific Film Archive in Berkeley, where I was

904
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 5: a grad student in the I and it was one

905
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 5: of the places of my film education.

906
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: Is there a PFA fan.

907
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 5: Out there, Yes, And it's the kind of thing that

908
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 5: they would have brought in. I'm sure I must have

909
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 5: seen the trilogy at that time, but this is the

910
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 5: one that struck me that I remember, you know, being

911
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 5: sort of transformed by. And I've seen it many times

912
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 5: since then. I wrote on it for Slate in twenty

913
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 5: fifteen when Criterion restored it, and the restoration story has

914
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 5: kind of insane too, because the negative had burned and melted,

915
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 5: and you know, they just they had to do so

916
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 5: much to get this movie.

917
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 4: Back to how it looks incredible.

918
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 5: So pristine looks fantastic. And so I wrote on the

919
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 5: whole trilogy for Slay then, And I actually wanted to

920
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 5: read another quote which appears in that piece from Coursawa,

921
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 5: which you may have heard. This is a very famous

922
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 5: quote about about Ray. I think it may be the

923
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 5: most perfect criticism of him that there could be. It's

924
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 5: so condensed, there's nothing to add but Kurusawa in nineteen

925
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 5: seventy five, so twenty years after the movie came out,

926
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 5: said not to have seen the films of Satijit Ray

927
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 5: means existing in the world without ever having seen.

928
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: The sun and the moon, which is so beautiful element.

929
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 5: And it speaks to what you were saying that this

930
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 5: even though I just told you what this production history

931
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 5: that was so patchy, it has this organic feeling like

932
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 5: it just grew out of the ground like that. You know.

933
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 5: It just feels like this force of nature that just

934
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 5: surged up.

935
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 4: To get some of the nature scenery here from yeah,

936
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 4: first time filmmaker, first time cinematographer. The reeds and the

937
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 4: way the sunlight touches them, the clouds, the water, I mean,

938
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 4: it's it's just unbelievable. And yeah, we saw, you know,

939
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 4: the beginning was the history of the restoration and as

940
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: you mentioned that what they were working with to be

941
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 4: able to build it up to this. We're just really

942
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 4: fortunate to have it. I know. One of the things

943
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 4: that you mentioned we should probably touch on as this

944
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 4: idea of transitions in the film, So because we do

945
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 4: go through periods of time rather large periods of time

946
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 4: in subtle ways, I feel like slippery ways maybe. So, yeah,

947
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 4: what did you notice this time in terms of the

948
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 4: film's transition.

949
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I sent Josh that note last night. Transitions

950
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 5: we have to them, because it really really struck me

951
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 5: watching this again that almost every scene transition is a dissolve,

952
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 5: which is really unusual. Right, There's lots and lots and

953
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 5: lots of dissolves, and then there's occasionally fades to black

954
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 5: and only within scenes. Of course, there's normal cutting in

955
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 5: between shots, but there's this. There's just a real insistence

956
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 5: on making images flow into one another, and of course

957
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 5: flow and flowing water is this recurring image. I mean,

958
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 5: water is so important, right and ought to me all

959
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 5: the memorable images of this film that you take away

960
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 5: involve water. The incredible upside down shot when they're following

961
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 5: the sweet cellar near the beginning and you see them

962
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 5: reflected upside down in the pond, or I want to

963
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 5: talk more about this later closer to the ending, that

964
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 5: great transitional montage with the water skimmers moving over the

965
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 5: water and the rain drops beginning, and it's really long,

966
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 5: it's really extensive, and you kind of feel like we're

967
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 5: moving into a different chapter. And sure enough, it's a

968
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 5: different chapter because what happens as a result of that rainstorm,

969
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 5: we lose Dorga, you know. But the idea that this

970
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 5: movie is kind of a flowing river, which is something

971
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 5: else Khorsaw was said about it. I don't even know

972
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 5: he had said that till doing this research.

973
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: But when I watch it, I always feel like you're

974
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: caught up in the river of the film.

975
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 6: You know.

976
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 5: It's like the camera's flowing along, the water is flowing,

977
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 5: and all those transitions that are so fluid just move

978
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 5: you from one time to the next. But there's a

979
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 5: mystery how much time passes during this movie, right, and

980
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 5: it's hard to figure out. A few times that time

981
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 5: is mentioned, like Dorga says to her friend who's getting married,

982
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 5: it's a month and two days until your wedding. And

983
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 5: there's the letter from the traveling Fathers and she says

984
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 5: he's been gone.

985
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: For five months.

986
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 5: But we don't know how long those months are separated by,

987
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 5: or how long the auntie was away when she went away,

988
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 5: but there's this sense of repetition. I think my theory

989
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 5: about the dissolved transitions is that they're almost like if

990
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 5: you speak a romance language, they're like an imperfect tense

991
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 5: compared to a perfect tense. You know, it's like a

992
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 5: continued action in the past compared to a thing that

993
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 5: happens just one time. Because to me, the transition seemed

994
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 5: to suggest the repetitive cycle of life in the village.

995
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 5: You know, these things have happened many times, like when

996
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 5: the band comes to play, or the different festivals.

997
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: It's like this cyclical life.

998
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 5: And the temporal marks in the movie somehow communicate that

999
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 5: so perfectly.

1000
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a poeticism to that, but there's also as

1001
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 4: you're describing it, it makes me think of the mother's experience.

1002
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 4: So the mother played by Karuna Energy, how she seems

1003
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 4: to exist in this loop, this cycle, but out of time,

1004
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: especially as grief becomes more something heavier to bear for her,

1005
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 4: where she's almost in her own time and space. And

1006
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 4: when her husband returns, it's especially striking how he's could

1007
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 4: be a ghost to her as far as she's concerned

1008
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 4: at first when he arrives. So, yeah, it's playing with

1009
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 4: time in so many slippery ways. We've been talking a

1010
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 4: lot about water, nature images and settings, but we get

1011
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 4: little bursts of modernity in this film, and I think

1012
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 4: they're key. I think that's one of the crucial things

1013
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 4: this movie is exploring, you know, a village like this

1014
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 4: which is stuck in time in some ways, and the

1015
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 4: intrusions of modernity. So the train that we hear first

1016
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 4: right that one night with the family is just quietly

1017
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 4: owing about their business and then the train intrudes. Or

1018
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 4: when brother and sister go out to the fields and

1019
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 4: they're looking at the electrical towers and there's an intrusion

1020
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 4: right in they're planted in the latter in nature there.

1021
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 4: So I'm curious what you made of kind of that element,

1022
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 4: which is as I was watching it now after we've

1023
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 4: seen The Wonderful All we imagine is Light another Indian

1024
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 4: film from this year, and that concludes with some characters

1025
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 4: returning to a village, an ancestral village in a way

1026
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 4: that that dynamic is still in contemporary India, a thing

1027
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 4: I thought was interesting. But yeah, in terms of how

1028
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 4: it plays out in Pather Panchali, this modernity and tradition tension,

1029
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 4: what do you make of that?

1030
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 5: It's really sophisticated because it's not a nostalgic movie. It

1031
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 5: was accused at the time by some of being in

1032
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 5: a estat you know that it idealized or sort of

1033
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 5: romanticized poverty, or that it was looking back at a

1034
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 5: village past and sort of a frightened of modernity. There

1035
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 5: is very unsettling music when you see those towers. You

1036
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 5: know the music, which, by the way, is by Robbie Shankar,

1037
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 5: the great sitar player. Amazing, you know who taught George

1038
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 5: Harrison to play sitar. It's an unbelievable score that completely

1039
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 5: stands on its own. You can just listen to the

1040
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 5: soundtrack as an album. But yeah, the music gets modern

1041
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 5: there and strange when they're looking at the electrical towers.

1042
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 5: I mean, this kind of brings up the placement of

1043
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 5: this movie. Is it a movie about the India's past

1044
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 5: or about India's future? And the fact that it was

1045
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 5: made right after the partition of India and Pakistan, right

1046
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 5: after the decolonization of India and the creation of basically

1047
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 5: taking Bengal, which is where this takes place. It's a

1048
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 5: Bengali movie in Bengali language, and Bengal had just been

1049
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 5: divided between West and East. And I'm not going to

1050
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 5: know my history well enough to get every detail right,

1051
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 5: but essentially I think it is safe to say that

1052
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 5: the Muslims in the Hindus had sort of been split up,

1053
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 5: you know, the ethnicity of Bengal had been turned into

1054
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 5: two different regions. And so this movie isn't a way

1055
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 5: looking back at a time when there was a village

1056
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 5: life that was simpler than that. But I would not

1057
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 5: say at all, especially given the end and the fact

1058
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 5: that they leave the ancestral home, that it's idealizing that time.

1059
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 5: And then if you keep on watching the trilogy, the

1060
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 5: next section they're in Binars where they move to at

1061
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 5: the end of this film, and then finally a pu

1062
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 5: as an adult, moved to Calcutta, the big city. So

1063
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 5: nostalgic or not, it is a movie about forward movement

1064
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 5: into a series, rather about forward movement into the modern age.

1065
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 4: If anyone here has not seen the other two films

1066
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 4: in the trilogy, hopefully this will move you to do that.

1067
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 4: It is one complete story. It's a life, it's a

1068
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 4: full life, expert, it's such.

1069
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: A complete character.

1070
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know about you all, but I

1071
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 5: almost always have a problem in films where a new

1072
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 5: actor comes in to play someone as.

1073
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 1: They grow up.

1074
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 5: You know, it's so rare that it actually seems like

1075
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 5: an older version of that person. It was something that

1076
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 5: the recent Brazilian movie I'm Still Here had a very

1077
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 5: clever card up at sleeve where the older woman version

1078
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 5: of the main character is played by her own mother.

1079
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: He was also a great Brazilian actress.

1080
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 5: And you know, you don't often you're not lucky enough

1081
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 5: to just say, oh, here's an actress who you know

1082
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 5: looks exactly like that person but is much older. But

1083
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 5: even though the three up who's don't really resemble each

1084
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 5: other physically, you completely believe it's the same boy because

1085
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,959
Speaker 5: the film has just showed you so clearly.

1086
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: Who he is.

1087
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, quickly on the modernity thing, watching especially, I think

1088
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 4: that scene with the electrical towers, but even regarding the

1089
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 4: train or listening to the train, I think the reason

1090
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 4: you can't identify this as nostalgic or progressive towards the future,

1091
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 4: but really existing the tension is that it gives both

1092
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 4: siblings distinct relationships to the potential change. So I think

1093
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 4: of O who when you first hear the train, he

1094
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 4: looks up. The rest of the family doesn't engage with it,

1095
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 4: and you even the first time I saw it I

1096
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 4: felt like, oh, he's gone. He's not gonna live here forever.

1097
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 4: Because when he hears that train, he's excited by it.

1098
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 4: And when they go to the electrical towers, you'll notice

1099
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 4: it's more subtle O, who is curious, not quite as excited.

1100
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 4: But as they both take turns listening to that hum

1101
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 4: which the music you know, captures, you notice how she

1102
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 4: is a little bit more of a frown in that moment,

1103
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 4: like what are these is this dangerous? Whereas Opu is

1104
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,879
Speaker 4: more of this curiosity. He's not, he's not afraid of it.

1105
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 4: And I think that echoes where he'll go, as you said,

1106
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 4: the rest of his life.

1107
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, think of the first time you see Upho

1108
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 5: as as when he's not a little baby.

1109
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 1: Is his eye just his bright eye.

1110
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 5: Coming through that little hole in the blanket when she

1111
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 5: opens it up. It's just one of the great character

1112
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 5: alternads of all And you know so much about him

1113
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 5: from that and from the incredible boy they found Suberbanajee

1114
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 5: who plays him, who was unprofessional, you know, just a

1115
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 5: kid actually, just that the director's wife spotted in Calcutta

1116
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 5: and said, this is your this is your Upho.

1117
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: He had been trying to cast the right kid.

1118
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 5: But yeah, something about focusing on his eye and his curiosity.

1119
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 5: You just know that he's a boy who's whose mind

1120
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 5: is going places.

1121
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the performances a little bit while we

1122
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 4: still have some time here. So as you said, saber

1123
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 4: bonergiez Opu Durga sister when she's older, Uma Dasgupta, how

1124
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 4: did these register to you? Because they're a combination of

1125
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 4: very natural, almost without much experience in the case of Ophu,

1126
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 4: but also, you know, more theatrical in some scenes is

1127
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 4: the grieving scene we saw when the father learns what

1128
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 4: has happened to his daughter. So yeah, how do you

1129
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 4: kind of gauge performances in a film like this?

1130
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 5: I mean, I know that Saji Shiray didn't want to

1131
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 5: have known professionals. I think the father was the most known.

1132
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 5: I think he had done some films before and would

1133
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 5: have been familiar, but not a star. The woman who

1134
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 5: plays the mother had only done sort of local regional theater,

1135
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 5: but she had acted a little bit.

1136
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: Uma Dasgupta, who plays.

1137
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 5: The teenage Doorga, had again acted a little bit but

1138
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 5: was not famous. Suber Banerjie was just a kid from

1139
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 5: the street that they found. By the way, just as

1140
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 5: a note, three or four of the people in this

1141
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 5: movie you're named Banerjee, but they're not related. I think

1142
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 5: it's just a very very common name. But they all

1143
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 5: seem to be at They seem there's not any sense

1144
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 5: of inconsistency among their acting styles, right, I mean to me,

1145
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 5: they all feel like like found actors in the sense

1146
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 5: that nobody is theatrical.

1147
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 1: But I will say that the way the mother.

1148
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 5: Plays many scenes when she's you know, trying to refill

1149
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 5: the rice and you know, her scenes of grief, I

1150
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 5: feel like she belongs in a tradition of melodrama. You know.

1151
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: She makes me think of.

1152
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 5: Annamanyani or actresses who play you know, just grand operatic

1153
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 5: emotions so beautifully.

1154
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right. We should mention the father Kanu Bonerji

1155
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 4: tier Point and the last name. And I was struck,

1156
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 4: how up? Who has to be his kid in real life?

1157
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 4: I'm thinking there their smiles, right, they both share that

1158
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 4: enthusiasm we've been talking about, maybe misguided a bit on

1159
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 4: the father's part, you know. And then also Auntie, we

1160
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 4: need to mention Chunabala Devi as this just kind of

1161
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 4: mysterious figure, like where she exists in the village, where

1162
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 4: she exists in the household? Where does her joy come from?

1163
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 4: To to go back to your you know that the

1164
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 4: top five choice you made about carrying on and moving on,

1165
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 4: she's the one who carries on repeat to a new home.

1166
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 4: But yet such an elemental figure in the film.

1167
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, well, that actress had been around since

1168
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 5: the silent era, and I think basically they went looking

1169
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 5: for her, like is she still around? And she was

1170
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 5: living in the red light district.

1171
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: Of Calcutta and was very old.

1172
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 5: And during that period of two and a half years

1173
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 5: that they're trying to get.

1174
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: Funding and they have to keep pausing.

1175
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 5: Their big fear was is this actress going to die

1176
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 5: and we're not going to be able to finish it.

1177
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 5: But she made it through, and that was what Ry

1178
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 5: was so grateful for that she lived in time to

1179
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 5: finish the film. And also the kids didn't grow so

1180
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 5: fast that you know, they seem to be roughly within

1181
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 5: the same year.

1182
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 4: When you talked about the extended production, I was thinking,

1183
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 4: how did those kids not just sprout up?

1184
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 5: But I presume that they must have filmed it in order,

1185
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 5: you know, or at least tried to film it in

1186
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 5: order so that it would seem natural that they were

1187
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 5: growing up. But yeah, you don't really see them changing

1188
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 5: a lot.

1189
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 4: I think we have to wrap up pretty quickly. Here

1190
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 4: is are any last thoughts you had about I.

1191
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 5: Hate a question for you, and I don't know if

1192
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 5: you'll have time to answer, but just in you know,

1193
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 5: regarding your book and your interest in faith and re film.

1194
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: Just what you thought of this movie's.

1195
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 5: Representation of faith in prayer, because that's a complicated thing,

1196
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 5: I think for right, I mean, he was not a

1197
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 5: pious man himself, but he made a lot of films

1198
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 5: about devotion and piety.

1199
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 4: There's a ton there, and I don't have the background

1200
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 4: in what the many prayers we see in this film

1201
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 4: mean in that context. And clearly there's also an economic element.

1202
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 4: I mean, his livelihood is tied to this identity as

1203
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 4: a priest. So so yeah, I would love to actually

1204
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 4: read something that talks about what those prayers are and

1205
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 4: what they might mean for this family. For my book project,

1206
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 4: it was more looking at categories of Christian prayer than

1207
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 4: looking at films like this and saying what might it

1208
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 4: mirror echo for me? And so Interestingly enough, the world

1209
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 4: of Opho is the one I wrote about in the book,

1210
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 4: because one of the categories of prayer I write about

1211
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 4: prayers of joy and world of oup. Who Adam's favorite is,

1212
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 4: you know, partially this marital relationship, and it's where Opho

1213
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,919
Speaker 4: ends up. And there's loss and heart sec there too,

1214
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 4: but a very joyful film. I'm watching Powther Punchali again

1215
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 4: today and thinking this is a joyful film as well.

1216
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 4: I don't think I included it immediately because of the

1217
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 4: deaths obviously, and the family leaves, and it seems silly

1218
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 4: to say, as it just ended, But if you think

1219
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 4: about all the moments in that movie where there is

1220
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 4: joy expressed, a gratefulness, of gratitude for sun, for play,

1221
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 4: for fruit, for life, for just being alive, And maybe

1222
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 4: it takes a family living on the edge this close

1223
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 4: to truly appreciate that. As you'll hear some people say,

1224
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 4: who are in dire situations, thankful to be awake today.

1225
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 4: I'm grateful to be alive today. This is a family

1226
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 4: that experiences that. So yeah, I didn't write a lot

1227
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 4: about Powther Punchalli. I've focused more in the world of

1228
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 4: Opepoo but I think I could have after watching it

1229
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 4: again today, So thanks Presking, Thank you.

1230
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 2: Deane has been one of our favorite guests over the

1231
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 2: years of doing this show and it was a thrill

1232
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 2: to have her in person at film Spottingest, and I

1233
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: know that was a highlight conversation for many of our attendees.

1234
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 2: Our thanks again to Dana. You can find her work

1235
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: over at slate dot com. For more about film Spotting Fest,

1236
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 2: you can visit film Spottingfest dot com. That's our show.

1237
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 2: You can find me and the show at Instagram, Facebook,

1238
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 2: letterboxed at film Spotting. Also find us at YouTube at

1239
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 2: film Spotting. Josh is at Larsen on Film on most

1240
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,479
Speaker 2: of those platforms as well and over on Blue Sky.

1241
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is independently produced and listeners supported. Support the

1242
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,439
Speaker 2: show by joining the film Spotting Family at film Spottingfamily

1243
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: dot com. You can listen early in ad free, plus

1244
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 2: get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and access to

1245
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: the entire show archive. For show t shirts and other

1246
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 2: merch go to film spotting dot net slash shop. In

1247
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: that archive, you can find Coconauta interviews about Columbus episode

1248
00:57:55,960 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 2: six fifty and after Yang episode eight sixty eight. Our

1249
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: Satagate ray marathon from twenty fifteen included conversations about Pather,

1250
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: Panchali Aparajito. That was The Unvanquished as it is also known,

1251
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 2: Opera Sansar, The World of Oppoo, The Music Room, The

1252
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 2: Big City, The Lonely Wife. It was one of our

1253
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: favorite marathons ever. Out now streaming in VOD A movie

1254
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: we kind of loved reviewed last week on The Show

1255
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: ten twenty nine, Highest to Lowest. The new Spike Lee

1256
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: is now out on Apple TV plus Angel Headed Hipster,

1257
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: the documentary about Mark Bolan, which I talked about a

1258
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: little bit on episode ten twenty six. That's also out

1259
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 2: VOD in limited release. A new film starring Andre Holland

1260
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 2: as a writer navigating complicated relationships in a rapidly changing Brooklyn.

1261
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: It's a directing debut. The premiered at this year's Sun

1262
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 2: Dance called Love Brooklyn Preparation for the Next Life, directed

1263
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 2: by Bing Lou, another Golden Brick winner like Cogonata who

1264
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 2: made the great documentary Minding the Gap, this is a

1265
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 2: film about a weager woman who migrates to New York

1266
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: City and meets and falls in love with an Army

1267
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 2: Bet played by Fred Heckinger, who has just returned from

1268
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 2: three tours in the Middle East. Also out in limited release,

1269
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 2: The Threesome, directed by Chad Hartigan, who made Morris from

1270
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 2: America and Little Fish. It stars Zoe Deutsch and Ruby

1271
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 2: Cruz and Jonah Hoyer King as the titular Threesome. Katie

1272
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 2: Walsh says, when you order a sex farce and get

1273
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 2: a suite affecting nuanced exploration of modern relationships instead anchored

1274
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 2: by incredible performances in cinematography, that's the Chad Hartigan promise. Okay,

1275
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 2: who knew out wide? The Conjuring Last, writes Hamilton, a

1276
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 2: tenth anniversary theatrical release of the musical Twinless. Two young

1277
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: men meet in a twin bereavement support group and form

1278
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 2: an unlikely romance. Next week it is our Pantheon Project

1279
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 2: review of Goodfellas at thirty five. We'll see what else

1280
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: we can get up to, and we will hear from

1281
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 2: Josh Larsen in his new abode in Scotland. Film Spotting

1282
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: is produced by Golden Joe Toso and Sam van Holgren.

1283
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: Without Sam and Golden Joe, the show wouldn't go Our

1284
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: production assistant is Sophie Kempinar, and special thanks to everyone

1285
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 2: at wb e Z Chicago. More information is available at

1286
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 2: wbe z dot org for film spotting, I'm Adam Kempinar.

1287
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

1288
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 5: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

1289
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 3: The burn.

1290
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

1291
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