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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: A newborn baby girl found dumped.

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Speaker 1: Literally in a dumpster behind a Wally World Mini marked.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the baby is dead.

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Speaker 1: You know how many people would pay tens of thousands

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Speaker 1: of dollars to have a baby to love. But no,

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Speaker 1: let's just throw the baby in a dumpster to die

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Speaker 1: in a dumpster.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not a shrink, but even I know.

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Speaker 1: The meaning behind putting your child in trash. It's almost

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Speaker 1: more than I can take in. I mean, see, Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: here at Crime Stories and on Serious xem one eleven.

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Speaker 1: It is reminiscent of another case I recently covered. Listen,

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Speaker 1: hello name one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we just found the beating in the tracks

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Speaker 3: behind uh uh?

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Speaker 4: What is damn intent street?

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Speaker 3: The hob where?

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Speaker 4: Hey, gretfully?

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Speaker 5: Where we are.

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Speaker 2: Them all.

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Speaker 5: Behind set?

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Speaker 2: We're behind Hoggs. Mall. Okay, I'm showing you just un god, yes, ma'am, okay.

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Speaker 6: Them all behind them all?

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Speaker 7: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Is it clothes broken up?

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Speaker 8: Is it?

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Speaker 9: Does the baby have any clothes on?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 6: It is making noise?

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Speaker 3: Okay, do you have a blink? Here here's good boy

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Speaker 3: and he is still alive. I believe he lurks pretty good.

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Speaker 1: That baby lived, That little baby boy lived, and one

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Speaker 1: day he's going to be told that he was so

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Speaker 1: hated as a newborn, so unloved, the only thing anybody

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Speaker 1: could think to do is just throw him away in

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Speaker 1: the trash. He's going to know that inside the rest

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Speaker 1: of his life. This baby girl doesn't even have that opportunity.

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Speaker 2: She died.

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Speaker 8: Listen Indicator, Alabama, a newborn baby has been found in

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Speaker 8: a dumpster behind the wally World Mini mark. Police investigation

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Speaker 8: began with a tip called into police about possible human

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Speaker 8: remains in a dumpster. Decatered Police found the newborn baby

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Speaker 8: dead inside a bag in the bottom of the dumpster.

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Speaker 8: The body has been sent for autopsy determined the cause

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Speaker 8: of death. No arrest have been made.

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Speaker 1: This was at Point Mallard Drive at nine o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning. Joining me an all star panel makes sense

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Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But first I want

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Speaker 1: you to listen to more about what we know about

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Speaker 1: the location where the baby was dumped.

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Speaker 2: Take listen to our friend.

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Speaker 8: Dave mac wtvy is reporting that a baby was found

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Speaker 8: in a dumpster behind a convenience store into cater Alabama.

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Speaker 8: One employee of the store, Carry Hall, was shocked to

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Speaker 8: realize a baby had been thrown in the dumpster. Hall

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Speaker 8: is quoted as saying, consider that site, it's probably somebody

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Speaker 8: in the neighborhood, probably somebody close to just throw their

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Speaker 8: baby away and not care. Unquote. Police have not made

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Speaker 8: an arrest yet again.

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Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel makes sense of what

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Speaker 1: we know right now, but straight out to crimeonline dot

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Speaker 1: com to get a reporter, Nicole Parton, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: start with the narrow line of questioning regarding the discovery

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Speaker 1: of the baby.

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Speaker 2: Who, what, where and why explained.

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Speaker 6: So the local police department there received a tip that

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Speaker 6: they should check this dumpster behind this gas station, this

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Speaker 6: Wally World market. They went out and they dug through

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Speaker 6: the trash beneath the large trash bags that the convenience

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Speaker 6: store had put out from their pails of trash every

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Speaker 6: evening by the gas pump. They found a smaller white

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Speaker 6: trash bag, and in that trash bag they found this

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Speaker 6: beautiful baby girl, who unfortunately was already deceased.

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Speaker 1: Wally World, my understanding is kind of like Six Flags

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Speaker 1: or a Disney knockoff. I mean, it's a fun place,

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Speaker 1: and this was a wally World mini mart. Explained that

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Speaker 1: to me, Nicole Parton.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just a name that they used. It's actually

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Speaker 6: just a gas gas station. It's just a convenience store

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Speaker 6: there in kind of a rural area. Decatur has about

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Speaker 6: fifty thousand people who live there. This particular gas station

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Speaker 6: at Point Miller Drive is Point Mallard Drive is in

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Speaker 6: a rural area. It's kind of where you go get

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Speaker 6: your cup of coffee in the morning. And you know

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Speaker 6: the guy that you see in front of you because

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Speaker 6: you see him there every day. So this community is

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Speaker 6: shocked to think that someone in their area has placed

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Speaker 6: the baby girl outside in the dumpsters.

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Speaker 1: Wallyworld was a name used later in a National Lampoon movie,

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Speaker 1: and it was based on a short story named Vacation

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Speaker 1: fifty eight where the stars of the story were trying

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Speaker 1: to make a trek to an amusement park. So the

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Speaker 1: irony behind the name of this Wallyworld Mini mark. You

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Speaker 1: think about children having fun and being with their families,

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Speaker 1: and now you're at a wally World mini mart and

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Speaker 1: behind it in the trash in a dumpster, left to

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Speaker 1: die or already did, is a beautiful baby girl.

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Speaker 2: Now you are hearing and I'm one call earlier regarding the.

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Speaker 1: Case of Alexis Villa, and I'm always stunned that this

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Speaker 1: doesn't end. It goes on and on and on. Baby's

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Speaker 1: thrown in dumpsters like their trash. I mean, I need

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Speaker 1: a shrink.

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Speaker 2: Doctor. Angela Arnold is joining me.

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Speaker 1: We're now a psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You

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Speaker 1: can find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Angela,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer. You'll have to explain to me,

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Speaker 1: not the symbolism, but the psychopathy behind putting your baby

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Speaker 1: in a you know.

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Speaker 2: What a dumpster?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, because you've never looked for evidence

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Speaker 1: in a dumpster as I have. It was a dumpster

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Speaker 1: behind a restaurant and it smelled to high heaven. I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine putting a baby in there with the flies

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Speaker 1: and those big green flies that bite, and maggots.

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Speaker 2: And worms and rotting.

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Speaker 1: Food and everything out of the bathroom, the bathroom trash,

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Speaker 1: and you put the baby in there.

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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, I believe that that speaks more to an

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Speaker 6: act of desperation by someone who is either not attached

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Speaker 6: to the baby through the pregnancy and or scared to

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Speaker 6: death of what this means for their life. So they've

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Speaker 6: not formed an attachment to this baby that has been

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Speaker 6: growing inside of them for nine months that they've probably

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Speaker 6: they've probably tried to hide this pregnancy for the whole time.

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Speaker 6: So instead of becoming joyous over bringing a baby into

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Speaker 6: the world, these people are scared and they do not

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Speaker 6: know what alternatives they have.

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Speaker 1: James shell Nut is joining me renowned lawyer with the

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Speaker 1: shell Nut Firm, and what I like about him is

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Speaker 1: he did twenty seven years in Metro major case. He's

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Speaker 1: also a detective, former swat, former judge, former municipal prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: and you can find him now shell Nut Law Firm

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Speaker 1: dot com. James, Doctor Angie Arnold sounds suspiciously close to

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Speaker 1: defending the mother that we believe put this baby dead

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Speaker 1: in the dumpster, or put the baby in the dumpster

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Speaker 1: to die with all the bathroom trash and the refuse

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Speaker 1: and the rotting food and the flies and the larva.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, seemingly is defending the mother.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I agree, and nothing against doctor Anne Jarnal. I'm

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Speaker 5: a general fan, but I will tell you I adamantly

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Speaker 5: disagree with this.

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Speaker 2: I was a fan until about two minutes ago.

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Speaker 5: Go ahead, well, I will.

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Speaker 3: Tell you why.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you look at just the mere fact

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Speaker 5: of where this child was discarded, like you said a

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Speaker 5: minute ago, like a piece of trash. This child wasn't

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Speaker 5: placed somewhere on a doorstep. It wasn't dropped off at

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Speaker 5: some hospital, it wasn't dropped off at some family home.

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Speaker 5: It was thrown where you would throw trash that you

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Speaker 5: never want to see again and never remember again. And

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Speaker 5: to me as a detective, that looks like a person

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Speaker 5: who is selfish, who is self absorbed, and has no

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Speaker 5: concern whatsoever for the human life of this innocent child.

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Speaker 1: And you know another thing. I'm not saying abortion is

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Speaker 1: right or wrong, but if you don't want a baby,

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Speaker 1: why do you wait until you give birth and then

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Speaker 1: you kill the baby.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand that thinking.

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Speaker 1: And also shell nutt there are safe haven spots all

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Speaker 1: over the country where you can take the baby. You

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Speaker 1: can take the baby to hospitals, to law enforcement, to family,

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Speaker 1: you know, But to kill the baby, that's murder of

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Speaker 1: a defenseless infant, the tiniest, the most helpless in our societies.

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Speaker 2: That is murder shall Nut.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know it's concerning, and you know, I don't

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Speaker 5: know what the excuse will be as far as to

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Speaker 5: why this person did this.

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Speaker 1: Oh, dear Lord in heaven, are you asking me to

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Speaker 1: prove motive? Do I need to prove motive?

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Speaker 2: Why does anybody do anything? Why does Scott Peterson kill

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Speaker 2: Lacey because he.

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Speaker 1: Wanted to be free? He want to be married anymore?

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Speaker 1: What does anybody do anything?

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Speaker 5: Well, I will tell you. You know, in Alabama, which

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Speaker 5: is where this happened at, Alabama has some interesting laws.

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Speaker 5: One of the laws Alabama has is a chemical endangerment

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Speaker 5: that causes the death of a child. Now, I don't

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Speaker 5: know what the autops you will show with.

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Speaker 1: So basically you're lit your ear, flapping your wings into

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Speaker 1: a flight of fancy because you have no idea whether

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Speaker 1: there was any drugs or alcohol involved. And ps voluntary

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Speaker 1: use when drugs are alcohol is not a defense.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I agree with you. My point, just trying to

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Speaker 5: save their own She could be trying to save her

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Speaker 5: own skin because at some point this child is going

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Speaker 5: to be zerologically tested. This child is going to be

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Speaker 5: looked at for any signs of physical abuse, and under

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Speaker 5: Alabama law, if there is any type of controlled substance

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Speaker 5: in this baby system, then now this turns into a

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Speaker 5: Class A felony for the death of this child.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greace. Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me

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Speaker 1: not just a medical examiner, but chief medical examiner. You

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Speaker 1: know how hard it is to become chief medical examiner.

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Speaker 1: You can't have a single complaint from any of your

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Speaker 1: clients ever. Oops, sorry, you don't have any clients that

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Speaker 1: can speak. You're the medical examiner, they're all already dead.

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Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner, Charrant County fort Worth. But joking aside,

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Speaker 1: you have to climb up the ladder perform thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of autopsies to become the chief medical Examiner and

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Speaker 1: Trant County Lecturer University Texas Austin and Texas Christian University

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Speaker 1: Medical School.

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Speaker 2: So I defer to you, doctor Kendall, how go ahead.

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Speaker 4: The discussion of whether the mom is using a chemical

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Speaker 4: or something like that. If she placed a breathing baby

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Speaker 4: into a trash bag, that's a six year So I

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Speaker 4: think that you're dealing with a homicide. Not only have

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Speaker 4: you placed a kid in a trash bag where they

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Speaker 4: cannot breathe, but then jettison them into a trash can.

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Speaker 4: So I'm unsure of why there be even a question

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Speaker 4: of whether the mom was intoxicated or not.

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Speaker 1: Okay, before I get off into whether the mom had

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Speaker 1: a cocktail before the baby was thrown in the dumpster.

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Speaker 1: Joining us right now, a very special guest from National

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Speaker 1: Programs for Child Help at Childhelp dot org and child

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Speaker 1: Help Hotline dot org. They are an establishment that I

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Speaker 1: really believe in. They truly care about children. When you

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Speaker 1: donate to them, your money is going to help children,

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Speaker 1: not to the president and the vice president and the

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Speaker 1: vice vice president. It goes to help children. Childhelp dot Org.

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Speaker 1: Michelle Fingerman with us. Michelle, when will it.

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Speaker 2: End when we quit finding babies in dumpsters?

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Speaker 9: We talk about it all the time, Nancy. I mean,

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Speaker 9: we hear this time and time again, and we're devastated

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Speaker 9: each and every time another innocent life lost. So we

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Speaker 9: talk a lot about how can we prevent this from happening?

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Speaker 9: What resources? There's no defending the action. There's a baby

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Speaker 9: that's dead now because of these actions, but what can

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Speaker 9: we look at to prevent these from occurring in the future.

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Speaker 9: And that's part of the role that we play here

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Speaker 9: on the hotline is talking to people that may be

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Speaker 9: in crisis, talking to family members when they have concern

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Speaker 9: about somebody, what options do they have so we can

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Speaker 9: intervene before something.

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Speaker 7: Like this happened.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking back on John David and Lucy, who

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, are about to turn sixteen. It's

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Speaker 1: been the best sixteen years of my life. They were

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Speaker 1: extremely premature. They were both in the nick Neo Natal

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Speaker 1: intensive care unit for weeks. Lucy was born at two

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Speaker 1: pounds two pounds, too smaller than a kitten. And that

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Speaker 1: little thing lying in the incubator at the hospital would

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Speaker 1: hold up a one arm in the power sign and

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Speaker 1: she would lay there like that. And oh, of course

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Speaker 1: they were both in incubators. We would sing to them,

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Speaker 1: we would stand there, we would watch them. They had

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Speaker 1: so many tubes going in and out of their bodies,

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Speaker 1: and they were so fragile. And I'm thinking about this

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Speaker 1: little baby in a ster covered in trash, either dead

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Speaker 1: when she's thrown in there, or dying there not understanding

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Speaker 1: what was happening around her. Nobody holding her, nobody loving her,

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Speaker 1: nobody feeding her.

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Speaker 2: Or short little time on earth. Just awful and I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out too, doctor Kendall Crowns.

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Speaker 1: How do you look at a baby and determine its age?

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Speaker 1: How many days, how many weeks, how many hours old?

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Speaker 3: It is?

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Speaker 4: So there's actually a number of measurements that have been

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Speaker 4: put together over time. One of them is foot length.

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Speaker 4: You can use a foot length to determine the gestational

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Speaker 4: age of the baby and get pretty accurate from.

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Speaker 2: It foot length. What else?

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Speaker 4: I believe hand length is another one, and then overall

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Speaker 4: length of a baby, although that one isn't as as

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Speaker 4: specific as to foot length.

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Speaker 2: Of Doctor Kendall Crowns. Do you have children?

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Speaker 7: I do.

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Speaker 4: I have five children.

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Speaker 1: Well, you do remember what they looked like when they

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Speaker 1: were first born, don't you?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so do you remember what they looked like a

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Speaker 1: month later when they started to get a little baby

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Speaker 1: fat on them and they were rounding out and they're

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Speaker 1: no longer.

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Speaker 2: That pinkish reddish color.

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Speaker 1: When they're born and they're starting to get hair and

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Speaker 1: their eyes are focusing, their eyes look different.

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Speaker 2: When they're first born.

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Speaker 1: You can tell they can't really see, they're looking around,

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Speaker 1: they can't really see. But in a week or two

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Speaker 1: you can tell the eyes are focusing. The eyes actually

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Speaker 1: physically look different. Would you agree with all of that?

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Speaker 1: But you're telling me the only way that you are

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Speaker 1: renowned physician with thousands of autopsies under your belt, lecturer

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Speaker 1: at two fantastic universities. The only way I can tell

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Speaker 1: how old a baby is by the foot, in the

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Speaker 1: hand length.

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Speaker 4: And overall length with the body.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they look different, doctor, I mean I'm a jade

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Speaker 1: he not an empty But I know a newborn baby

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Speaker 1: from a baby a week old or six months old.

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Speaker 2: You can look at.

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Speaker 4: Them and tell sure, are we talking about gestational age

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Speaker 4: once you've been born and then you've aged over time,

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Speaker 4: or are you talking about a child that has died

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Speaker 4: in utero and has come into the office.

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Speaker 2: Now, baby in the dumpster?

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Speaker 1: That baby? Why would I be talking about a baby

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Speaker 1: in utero? That's not even a topic today.

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Speaker 4: Often with these dumpster babies, they are born prematurely and

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Speaker 4: die at the time of birth, so you have to

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Speaker 4: get an idea of what gestational age they were at

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Speaker 4: to move forward with a determining cause of manner.

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Speaker 2: I know what you're doing. Doctor.

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Speaker 1: You're using all of your fancy medical jargon on me

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Speaker 1: because you know I don't understand it.

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Speaker 4: No, No, that's not my goal.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it true?

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Speaker 1: You can look at a baby and tell if it's neborn,

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Speaker 1: just born, or three weeks.

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Speaker 4: Old newborn just born or three weeks so newborn and

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Speaker 4: just born would to me be the same. Yes, you

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Speaker 4: can tell that they're or had a survival time period.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And that, James Shell not is why you never

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Speaker 1: put a doctor on the stand unless you really have to,

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Speaker 1: because they will out thank you if you ask them

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Speaker 1: any medical question, just you know, forget about it.

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Speaker 2: Would you agree with that unless you really have to? Oh?

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Speaker 5: I think you say within your specialty for sure. When

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Speaker 5: you don't what, you get exposed.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I've been exposed as I'm not an obgyn.

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Speaker 2: There I said it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to get back to this baby and

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Speaker 1: what the h E double L happened. But I'm just

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Speaker 1: thinking about what we just talked about to doctor Angel Arnold.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out which one is really worse.

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Speaker 1: To leave your baby to die in a dumpster just

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Speaker 1: after you've had the baby just given birth, or you

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Speaker 1: have it around for two or three weeks and you

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Speaker 1: take care the baby. And I assume you would get

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Speaker 1: attached to the baby and then throw it out. They're

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Speaker 1: both horrible or Oh, are you going to defend the

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Speaker 1: perfect again?

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Speaker 6: No, I'm not. But you know, Nancy, when you talk

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Speaker 6: about and I do believe it's worse to keep the

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Speaker 6: baby around for a couple of weeks and then kill it.

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Speaker 6: But I also think it might be two different disease processes.

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Speaker 6: So the first one when you get rid of a

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Speaker 6: baby when it's just been born and it comes out

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Speaker 6: of you, I do believe that it has to do

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Speaker 6: with number one, a lack of attachment and number two,

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Speaker 6: some sort of feeling that that there's that there's trouble

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Speaker 6: and she's not going to be able to take care

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Speaker 6: of the baby two to three weeks later. If a

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Speaker 6: baby is disposed of, that has more to do with

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Speaker 6: some sort of post partum depression episode.

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Speaker 2: Depression is not a defense.

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Speaker 6: But okay, but I'm just telling you as a doctor,

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Speaker 6: as a psychiatrist who practices, who takes care of these

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Speaker 6: women all the time, there is a difference.

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Speaker 2: I'm depressed. Can I just go ahead and see Jackie

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 6: No, And Nancy, I don't believe you're depressed, Okay, but

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Speaker 6: when you take care of people who truly are depressed, Nancy,

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Speaker 6: it is they can't see their way out of it.

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Speaker 6: You can't you can't shake them out of it. They

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Speaker 6: literally can't see their way out of it. Okay, So, yes,

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Speaker 6: there is a difference in getting rid of a baby

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Speaker 6: at those two different times in the babies in the

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Speaker 6: baby's life.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, You're not the only baby specialist

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Speaker 2: on today, because we've got Nicole Parton, who is mother

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Speaker 2: of ten, yes, one, zero, ten, and she did it willingly.

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Speaker 1: It's not like I accidentally got pregnant. She adopted many

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Speaker 1: of these children, and many of them have learning disabilities

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Speaker 1: and all sorts of issues they're trying to overcome. So,

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Speaker 1: Nicole Parton, I can't say enough what a hero you

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Speaker 1: are to so many. But you have taken in children

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Speaker 1: and adopted them that have been abandoned by as their parents.

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Speaker 1: How has that affected them?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely? I can speak firsthand. I'm raising four beautiful little

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Speaker 6: girls who were abandoned by their mothers, and even after

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Speaker 6: being in a loving home where I adore them, I

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Speaker 6: have a daughter who's been with me for seven years now,

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Speaker 6: and she still is traumatized remembering the day that her

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Speaker 6: biological mom left her to die. And she's still on

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Speaker 6: days when she's feeling less than or having a hard day,

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Speaker 6: will say, Mamma, you're not going to leave me, are you.

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Speaker 6: You're not just going to give me away? Are you?

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Speaker 6: Even after therapy, even after seven years of love in

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Speaker 6: a stable home, these children suffer tremendously knowing that the

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Speaker 6: mother who burst them, the person who's supposed to protect them,

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Speaker 6: just threw them away, or set them aside, or left

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Speaker 6: them to die. It's tragic and even though we do

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Speaker 6: everything we can to help them overcome, it is a

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Speaker 6: struggle that they deal with sadly. Sadly, these biological parents

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Speaker 6: who do this, I don't even know if they have

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Speaker 6: any clue what they're doing to their children.

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Speaker 2: So who is the perp who did this?

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Speaker 1: And not just throwing the baby into the trash, but

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Speaker 1: stuck quote according to the cops, stuffed in the bottom

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Speaker 1: of the dumpster under several other large bags of trash.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut six from Crime Online.

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Speaker 8: Police Indicator Alabama. We're contacted about doing a well being

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Speaker 8: check on thirty six year old Cindy Crow. According to WAFF,

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Speaker 8: a family member believe Sidney Crow was a month's pregnant,

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Speaker 8: but when she saw her, it looked like she had

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Speaker 8: lost a lot of weight overnight. Her sister believed she'd

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Speaker 8: given birth and was concerned about where the baby was

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Speaker 8: before calling police to check on her sister. The family

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Speaker 8: member said that as Cindy was leaving her home, she

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Speaker 8: noticed a large white trash bag in the back floor

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Speaker 8: of warrior of the car she was driving. When the

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Speaker 8: family member tried to look in the bag, Crow refused

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Speaker 8: to let her. Crow then left headed to their ant's house.

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Speaker 8: While Crow was gone, her sister looked into some other

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Speaker 8: trash in the house and found bloody feminine products. When

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Speaker 8: she arrived at her ant's house, she noticed the trash

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Speaker 8: bag was no longer in the car.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that is a lot of information from crimeonline dot com.

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Speaker 1: The family noticed that suddenly, this woman, Cindy Nicole Crow,

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Speaker 1: had lost a lot of weight, disturbing amount of weight. Then,

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Speaker 1: when asked to look in a white trash bag in

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Speaker 1: the back floorboard of her car, she wouldn't let her.

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Speaker 1: There are some real indicators right there, but there's more listen.

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Speaker 8: Police followed up by contacting Cindy Crow at her job.

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Speaker 8: They were able to convince Crow to go to the

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Speaker 8: hospital and prove that she was not pregnant. WAFF forty

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Speaker 8: eight reports. While waiting for the test results, Crowe gave

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Speaker 8: an officer consent to search her cell phone. A Decator

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Speaker 8: detective found that Crowe had Life three point sixty on

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Speaker 8: her phone. That app allowed the detective to trace the

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Speaker 8: route Sidney Crow took when she left her home on

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Speaker 8: Monday to go to her aunt's house.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now. IRV.

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Speaker 1: Brandt, Senior Inspector, US Marshall Service, International Investigations Branch, Chief

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Speaker 1: Inspector DOJ Department of Justice, Office of International Affairs. Author

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Speaker 1: of multiple books, including Solo Shot, Curse to the Bluestone,

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Speaker 1: Flying Solo, Top of the World on Amazon and inspired

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Speaker 1: by all of his trips around the world investigating cases

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Speaker 1: and tracking down fugitives.

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Speaker 2: IRV.

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Speaker 1: Brandt, that's a lot of police work that is actually

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Speaker 1: gone into this case. And it all started herb with

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Speaker 1: family members asking for a welfare check on a relative

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Speaker 1: that had lost a ton of weight.

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Speaker 2: A ton of.

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Speaker 1: Weight, and I don't mean over a period of months,

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Speaker 1: so if they're on a zipic or something or we gov,

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Speaker 1: but a drastic amount of weight just gone.

445
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 2: Then they get.

446
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: Suspicious of a white trash bag in the back of

447
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: their car. I'm suspicious about them being suspicious. If I

448
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: see a white trash bag in somebody's car, I don't

449
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: really think anything about it.

450
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 2: I certainly don't want to look into it.

451
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: So something must have made them very suspicious about that

452
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: trash bag or Brant.

453
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: I agree, Nancy. And from the way the facts that

454
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 3: we know about the case right now, it appears that

455
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 3: these family members suspected this all along. That's why they

456
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 3: called the police. And when the police started to investigate,

457
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 3: and probably in the initial interviews of her, you know,

458
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 3: decided that there was something very very wrong.

459
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: Yes she's lying that.

460
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly that she's lying. Then when they got consent

461
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 3: to go into her phone, that investigator was looking for

462
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 3: something very specific and what.

463
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: Would that be, or Brandt looking for what her movements

464
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: explain how LI three sixty works.

465
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 4: The app I love it.

466
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 3: By the way, parents love to use it, put it

467
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 3: in their children's funds. There's a lot of different uses

468
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 3: for these apps. And that police officer, that investigator had

469
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: something specific in mind to track her movements if they

470
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: possibly thought that this maybe had been disposed of in

471
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 3: another location, which ultimately it turned out that it was.

472
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: Now doctor Angela Arnold joining me or an own psychiatrist

473
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Now, remember, to be a psychiatrist,

474
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: you have to get.

475
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: Your medical degree and then you go on after that.

476
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: So we're talking let's say four years of undergrad three

477
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: or four years in medical school, and then more then

478
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: you get your specialty in psychiatry. Now, doctor Angela Arnold

479
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: tried to tune up earlier about this poor young maybe

480
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: a teen girl that had gotten rid of her baby

481
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: because she didn't know what to do.

482
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: Okay, bs, the woman's thirty six years old. I think

483
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: she knows what's happening.

484
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 6: Doctor Angie, I completely completely agree with you. So it's

485
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 6: a completely different story. And why was she hiding the

486
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 6: pregnancy from her family? My other question is, which I imagine

487
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 6: many of your viewers have also, is was she denying

488
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 6: help from the family. Did the family try to help

489
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 6: her through this or were they all just sitting back

490
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 6: from afar going I think she's pregnant, but nobody was

491
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 6: helping her, because that could have been the case also,

492
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 6: or was she denying help from her family? And by

493
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 6: the way, that baby didn't get there on its own.

494
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 6: Where was the father in all of us?

495
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: Yes? Where is the father in all of this?

496
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: And remember at the hospital she took that pregnancy test

497
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: to take a listen to our friend.

498
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 8: Dave max WAFFTV reports the test results for Crow came

499
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 8: back positive for pregnancy. Staff at the hospital said Crow

500
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 8: was seen at the hospital in February twenty twenty three

501
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 8: and she was six weeks pregnant at that time, her

502
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 8: due date October thirteenth. With this information, Crow agreed to

503
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 8: go back to the Decatured police department, where she was

504
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 8: interviewed by the detective. Crow told the detective that she

505
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 8: was at the hospital in February and she was pregnant

506
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 8: at that time. Crow then told the detective that she

507
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 8: had a miscarriage not long after the hospital visit.

508
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: Okay, I almost said wow on one of the cops

509
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: felt bad about, you know, aggressively questioning a woman that

510
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 1: apparently had just given birth and chose to throw her

511
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: baby in the trash.

512
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: What was going on in her mind?

513
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, she has the wherewithal to lie.

514
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: She's lying, Oh, yeah, I had a miscarriage a while back.

515
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: Because help me out, doctor Crown's and doctor Arnold. Why

516
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: would you still be testing positive for pregnancy if you

517
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: had the miscarriage a couple of months before, I.

518
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 4: Don't know, if a couple of months, if you had

519
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 4: the baby a couple months before, if you would still

520
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 4: be hilling the hormones that would give a positive pregnancy test.

521
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 2: February twenty twenty three. She said she had a miscarriage

522
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: shortly after the hospital visit in feb twenty twenty three.

523
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: Those are months months before. Why would you still have

524
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: pregnancy hormones.

525
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 4: It wouldn't make sense that the pregnancy hormones would be

526
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 4: still be there months later that I can't give you

527
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: good explanation for.

528
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: So that's a lie.

529
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 4: I would think it would be.

530
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: That she still had pregnancy hormones and her miscarriage, according

531
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: to her, had been seven to eight months before.

532
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: Okay, but then we learn more. Listen.

533
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 8: Cindy Crow agreed to speak to the detective and was

534
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 8: taken to the Decatur Police Department. Way and thirty one

535
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 8: reports that during the interview, Crow confirmed the hospital February

536
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 8: twenty twenty three, hospital visit and that she was pregnant

537
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 8: at that time. She claims that she had a miscarriage

538
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 8: shortly thereafter. She then admitted that she did have a

539
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 8: white trash bag, but claimed that it contained trash from

540
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 8: the car she was driving. When the detective asked where

541
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 8: the trash bag was, Crow provided multiple locations that were

542
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 8: all determined to be false.

543
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: Oh what a tangled web we weave when first reepracticed

544
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: to deceive. Didn't anybody learn anything from Watergate? The cover

545
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: up was much worse than the crime. For Pete's sake,

546
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: here we're We've got a horrible crime and now a

547
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: cover up lying about it. All the locations she gives

548
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: about the trash bag are false, her fake miscarriage is false.

549
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: Everything is false, and she has the wherewithal to lie.

550
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: In other words, she's not insane, She's not having.

551
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: A break from reality. She knows enough to lie and

552
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: lie very well. Crime stories with Nancy Grace to doctor

553
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, how can you tell when you look at

554
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: a baby if the baby was still born or if

555
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: the baby lived and was then killed.

556
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 4: So one of the things you can do is what

557
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 4: we call the float test, where you take the lungs

558
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 4: from the baby and placed them in a jar of water,

559
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 4: and if the lungs float, then the baby took a

560
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: breath and survived the birthing process. They sink to the

561
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 4: bottom them and the baby was more than likely a stillborn.

562
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: The unfortunate thing with the float tests is if there

563
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 4: is any decomposition, because especially with these dumpster babies, they're

564
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 4: not often found right away, and the decomposition process starts,

565
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 4: bacteria starts producing gases, and the gases and that make

566
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 4: the lungs actually float, so that can throw that test off.

567
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 4: The other thing you can look for is is phologically

568
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 4: looking for expansion of the airspaces and the lungs, which

569
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 4: again can show that the baby possibly took a breath,

570
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 4: But if any CPR was done, that can disrupt that

571
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 4: test as well. So there aren't a lot of good

572
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 4: tests to determine whether the baby was alive at the

573
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 4: time of birth or not. We just have a few

574
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 4: that we can use to brand.

575
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: How do you go about proving this case other than

576
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: you've already caught the mom in a lie, a couple

577
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: of lies.

578
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: Well, that's going to be mostly with a homicide investigation.

579
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: Once it starts comes offside investigation. The suspect Crowe has

580
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: already given statements. That's, like you said earlier, a weave

581
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 3: of lies, and it's going to come down to her admitting,

582
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 3: and it's going to be an admission on her part.

583
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 3: It almost always is in cases like this, when confronted

584
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: with the evidence, when confronted with the lies that she told,

585
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: she's going to end up admitting to what she has done.

586
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: And there's also the issue of following her trail. Does

587
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: lie three.

588
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: Sixty show that she went to the dumpster site? Does

589
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: her nap system in her car show she went to

590
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: the dumpster site?

591
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: Do surveillance videos.

592
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: Behind or around Wally World's show her pulling in and leaving?

593
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: If so, what day?

594
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: She obviously is not going to have a mental defect

595
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: defense because she knows enough to lie to her family,

596
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: to go to a location, put the baby in a dumpster,

597
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: to lie to police about where she's been, about her miscarriage,

598
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: about the white trash bag. Her lies are becoming intricate

599
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: and they're very hard to keep straight once you start

600
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: a tangle of lies. I was speaking earlier to Michelle Fingerman,

601
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: VP of National Programs for child help at childhelp dot Org.

602
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: I can't really stress child help dot org enough. It

603
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: never seems to end. Take a listen to our cut fifteen.

604
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: Another example, this one out of Florida.

605
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 10: This is the dumpster where the baby girl was found

606
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 10: on Wednesday. Her apartment is just beyond in that back corner.

607
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 10: She told investigator she didn't think the baby was breathing

608
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 10: and put.

609
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 2: Her in the dumpster.

610
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 10: Investigators released new details about a newborn babygirl found inside

611
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 10: this dumpster at a Westboca apartment complex.

612
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: The arrest report.

613
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 10: Says the baby had a plastic bag around her head

614
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 10: and was placed inside another plastic bag. Investigators dug through

615
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 10: the trash and found a matching plastic bag with a

616
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 10: receipt to Fantastic Beauty Supply.

617
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 4: We found her like that.

618
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 10: Jessica Raya says she was working the day detectives came

619
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 10: in and remembers the suspect, Rafaela Sosuck, coming in the

620
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 10: store on Tuesday. Employees were able to help investigators because

621
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 10: their computer system stores clients names and phone numbers.

622
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 9: We have to put in the client's information in order

623
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 9: for us to process the order for them.

624
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 10: The arrest report shows Sosa told deputy she thought her

625
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 10: baby wasn't breathing and took the baby to the dumpster.

626
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,959
Speaker 2: Why not have a funeral for Pete's sake?

627
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: And that's the Florida baby, and what about the Vegas baby?

628
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: Take a listener, cut sixteenth.

629
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 11: Do you want you guys to take a look.

630
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 12: Neighbors who know nothing about this baby are out here

631
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 12: leaving flowers and candles because it's just such a devastating situation.

632
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 12: I did spend the day out here, and neighbors told

633
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 12: me a man who lives in this area found the

634
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 12: baby's body inside one of these dumpsters, inside a duffel bag.

635
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 11: He tried to lift the buck, but it was heavy.

636
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 12: This woman didn't want to share her name, but told

637
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 12: me what happened Sunday morning in the alley behind her apartment.

638
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: Neighbor who lived to buildings away from here, who was

639
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: looking on for the dobls and he thought a ruffel

640
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: repped buck.

641
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 12: Her neighbor couldn't lift the bag, so she told me

642
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 12: he unzipped it and sold the baby.

643
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 11: She says he called nine one one North. Las Vegas.

644
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 11: Police haven't stopped investigating sin And.

645
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: There's the Delaware baby and our cut eighteen.

646
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 8: The lead line in Newsweek said they were the perfect teens.

647
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 8: Then she got pregnant, They got scared. Amy Grosberg and

648
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 8: Brian Peterson brutalized and discarded in a dumpster. The victim

649
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 8: of Amy and Brian was their unnamed newborn child. It

650
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 8: was November of ninety six, and Grosberg had hidden her

651
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 8: pregnancy from her parents before moving to Newark to attend

652
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 8: the University of Delaware. Peterson was attending college in Pennsylvania,

653
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 8: but rushed to Newark when Grosberg's water broke and checked

654
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 8: them into the comfort in. Conflicting stories have made the

655
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 8: subsequent events a mystery to anyone except the couple, But

656
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 8: Peterson and Grosburg claim they believed the infant to be

657
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 8: still born, wrapped him in a garbage bag, and disposed

658
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 8: of him in a dumpster.

659
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: If they believe the child was still born, why was

660
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: it brutally beaten dead? But in this case, doctor Angie Arnold,

661
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: the mom is a thirty six year old grown woman.

662
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 6: Right, So Nancy, we all know that that means that

663
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 6: she knows better. But you know, but Nancy, I agree,

664
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 6: what's going to happen is what she's going to find

665
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 6: out is that there's so much information that's going to

666
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 6: tie her to this that there's no way she's going

667
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 6: to get out of it. She's going to have to

668
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 6: admit to this. It's a very and I also believe Nancy.

669
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 6: You know the fact that as you were talking about

670
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 6: the dumpster and the fact that she literally dug under

671
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 6: the trash in the dumpster to put the baby, she

672
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 6: did know what she was doing. She didn't want that

673
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 6: baby to be found, and she dug under all of

674
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 6: the trash and put the baby under the trash.

675
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: Michelle Fingerman joining me VP National Programs Childhelp dot Org. Michelle,

676
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: what are alternatives from others that don't want the baby?

677
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: Listen, I don't understand. I can't relate to that.

678
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: I wanted a family so badly, and again, these have

679
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: been the best sixteen years of my whole life, or

680
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: the time I've had with John, David and Lucy, my children.

681
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: But for moms that don't feel that way, what are

682
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: the alternatives? What can they do? Michelle Fingerman?

683
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 6: There's choices.

684
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 7: There's obviously positive choices that don't have to result in

685
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 7: babies dying. There are adoptions we have safe haven laws.

686
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 7: You know there's free confidential help or somebody in the

687
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 7: situation can pick up a phone or send a chatter

688
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 7: text and understand what options that they have that will

689
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 7: give this baby a chance in life.

690
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: What alternatives? When you say safe havens, could you explain

691
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: that place?

692
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 9: Yes, So, taking babies in Alabama their safe haven laws

693
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 9: taking babies to emergency room departments recently passed the law

694
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 9: where they're going to expand that where you can take

695
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,439
Speaker 9: babies within so many days three days. I think that's

696
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 9: expanding to forty five days in Alabama where they can

697
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 9: go to a fire station and take the baby there.

698
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 9: So from there the professionals can handle it to make

699
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 9: sure that this baby gets the medical attention that this

700
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 9: girl needed can be on the pathway to finding a

701
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 9: family that wants wanted to raise her.

702
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: If you or someone you know doesn't want the baby,

703
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: dial toll free to childhelp dot org. They will help

704
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 1: you find a save haven to take the baby and.

705
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 2: You won't get in trouble.

706
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: There will be no prosecution, there'll be no judging, no shaming,

707
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: and the baby will live. The number is eight hundred

708
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: four two two four four five three repeat eight hundred

709
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: four two two four four five three. You can find

710
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: all the information at childhelp dot org. And as for

711
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: Cindy Nicole crow Booker, Goodbye frid