1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from housetop dot com. 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to stop to blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: name is Robert Brown and I'm Christian Sager. Hey, Robert, 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: have you ever had like a warped or any kind 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: of I don't know, just weird growth. Um. Yeah, I've 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: had things of that nature. I had sort of like 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: an ingrown hair once that went to the dermatolgist about 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: and they're like sliced it out, and yeah, that's like, 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: I think, pretty common for most people. In fact, like 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: just recently, you know, I'm closing in on forty and 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: and just recently I went to the doctor and I 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: had like this weird growth and like I'm not gonna 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: detail where it was, but it was, you know, the 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: lower quadrant kind of uncomfortable and uh, did you have 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: eyes or amount? No eyes yet? It wasn't there yet, 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: but I was worried about eyes. And I said to 17 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: my doctor, what is this do I need to worry? 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: Is a cancer? And he was like, oh, that's a 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: skin tag. Those are super common, don't worry about it. 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: And then he like whipped out liquid nitrogen and right 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,639 Speaker 1: there just froze it off. My body and burned it off, 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I can imagine just having that 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 1: one little thing. I was like super freaked out of course, 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 1: Like the thought is just, oh, it's cancer, right. Uh. 25 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: But today we're gonna talk about a disease in which, 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: like we're not just talking about like warts or skin 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: tags here, but like people's entire bodies overgrow with these 28 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: bark like lesions to the point that they're referred to 29 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: as tree men. Yeah. They're kind of talking about some 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: of the well certainly rare, but also like worst case 31 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: um situations in which you have out of control growth 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: going on with your body and yet you were continuing 33 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: to live with it. Yeah, and so it's just it's 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: it's actually referred to the medical term, let's take it 35 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: slowly here, epidermo dysplasia verisiformists, and but most people call 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: it tree man disease. Yeah, and we may call it 37 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: e V. Yeah this episode, just to keep it simple, 38 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: but also maybe not refer to it, uh with this 39 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: more fantastic connotations. And those of you out there, you 40 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: have maybe seen pictures of guys like this before. It's 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: not just men. Actually I shouldn't say guys. There have 42 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: been women who have had the disease as well, but 43 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: it's incredibly rare, like super rare. So we're like, we 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: couldn't find any statistics on how rare it actually is. 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: There's only like three pretty well documented cases and those 46 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: are in the last like let's say, like twenty or 47 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: thirty years. Uh. And but what's particularly interesting about this 48 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: to me and I want to keep in mind as 49 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: like we're going forward and talking about this disease, which 50 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: is fascinating and the medical science curiosity that I think 51 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: is worthy of the show, but also that like there's 52 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: a what I call kind of elephant man syndrome thing 53 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: going on here with these with patients of tree man disease. Yeah, 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: where you get a little media outlets just swarm on 55 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: these people. Um and in particular, they will take a 56 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: lot of pictures of them, uh, follow them around. In 57 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: one case, there was a guy who I think he 58 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: was He was followed by at least two different TV 59 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: stations that were multiple documentaries made about him. One of 60 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: the TV channels UH paid for his medical surgeries because 61 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: there and we'll talk about it. There's treatment available for 62 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: people with tree Man disease or e V. But Um, 63 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: there's also just a weird kind of Yes, this is 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: a medical curiosity, but also like a sideshow barker kind 65 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: of gaze to it. Yeah, it is. It is a 66 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: weird area to get into because you know, we were 67 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: as as a population, we're kind of drawn to these 68 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: these examples. We we can't look away. There's a there 69 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: is a definite grotesque quality to these to these conditions, 70 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: and you know that, like I said that there they 71 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: can be nightmareck to behold, and so we're interested in them. 72 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: And then also we you know, everyone loves a story 73 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: of somebody overcoming a situation. Everybody loves a story in 74 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: which medical science is able to triumph over you know, 75 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 1: disfiguration and disease. And so yeah, we want we want 76 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: to document these stories. We want to see the stories. 77 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: We want to see that before and after that, you know, 78 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: the marvelous transformation. But on the other hand, yeah, there's 79 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: this exploitive aspect of it as well. I've been watching 80 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: that TV show Penny Dreadful lately. You know what that is. 81 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: It's like I watched the first season. Okay, yeah, so 82 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: there's like, you know, no spoilers here, but but it's 83 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: set in the late nineteenth century, and there's freak shows 84 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: are sort of a thing that are you know, are 85 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: talked about and and sort of alluded to in the show, 86 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: especially because some of the you know, some of the 87 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: characters are werewolves and Frankenstein and and vampires and stuff 88 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: like that. So there's there's that kind of alluding Asian 89 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: going on. And they even referenced John Merrick at one point. Uh. 90 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: But in It's so I guess maybe I'm hyper sensitive 91 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: to it because I'm watching that show. And then I 92 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: was doing the research on this, and I was just like, well, yeah, 93 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: a hundred hundred and fifty years ago, the only way 94 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: that these these guys with e V would have gotten 95 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: by is by being in some kind of quote unquote 96 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: freak show, you know. Uh. And then and even then, 97 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: there wouldn't have been any treatment for them. They probably 98 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: would have succumbed to the cause, or rather the symptoms 99 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: of the disease. Yeah, it's one of those situations where 100 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: that the disease does in fact seems so rare that 101 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: when when you look back through different myth cycles trying 102 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: to find examples of where it might have occurred, and 103 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: certainly it's possible cases of of e V occurred and 104 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: we're just misdiagnosed and something like leprosy or some other 105 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: duh deformity. But you don't, I mean, you see some 106 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: examples of people turning into trees, uh and then turning 107 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: into it two would in myth cycle and you know, 108 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: and in literature, I mean certainly that the example that 109 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: comes to my mind is the the wood of suicides 110 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: in Dante's Inferno, and uh, and there are a few 111 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: other cases as well, like there's um, you know, you 112 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: can look to the case that the art of Hieronymous Bosh. 113 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: You can see speaking trees in various myths. In some 114 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: strains of Authorian legend, Merlin is turned into a tree, 115 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: or he's imprisoned within a tree tree by the Lady 116 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: of the lake. It's but but for the most part, 117 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: you I mean, you have these other examples of petrification 118 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: occurring in myths, but not so much like people becoming 119 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: living trees. Which makes me wonder if like like that 120 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: just underlines how rare it is that they didn't even 121 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: really affect our our folklore and if it's a modern 122 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: condition too, because as we'll discuss, uh, you know, the 123 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: things that we that make it worse are somewhat industrial 124 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: in nature, but uh, I don't know. I think of 125 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: like D and D monsters, like dryads and things like 126 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: that at or like Tolkien obviously Tolkien's ends, right, but 127 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: those aren't even more than a hundred years old. I mean, 128 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: dryads obviously exist within within myth and fairy tales and 129 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: things like that, but uh, yeah, I don't know. There 130 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be a lot of precedent for this, 131 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: um And so that's one of the things that's really 132 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: fascinating about this condition is whether or not it's brand 133 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: new or if it's something that's just been hidden away 134 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: carefully throughout throughout history. But yeah, it's it's unpleasant. Um. 135 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: I guess let's get into like the details of just 136 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: like what it is exactly, so we're not just kind 137 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: of talking about, you know, the broad strokes of people 138 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: who have barked growing off their bodies. So it's a 139 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: condition in which your body becomes extremely suscepti susceptible to 140 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: the human papaloma virus otherwise known as HPV. And what 141 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: happens is you, you know, you take on that that 142 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: virus it causes branch or bark like skin growths to 143 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: develop across your entire body. And in most cases this 144 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: is on the hands and feet. Uh. And they're basically 145 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: malignant skin tumors. Uh. And when I'm saying, I mean, 146 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,679 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and you're trying to picture 147 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: it and you haven't seen it before we've posted about 148 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: it on social I'm sure that the thumbnail for this 149 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: episode will have some kind of image that will give 150 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: you an idea of what it looks like. There's there's 151 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: photos of two of the guys we're gonna talk about today. 152 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: But it's it goes beyond just like your skin turning 153 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: to bark. It's it literally looks like roots are growing 154 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 1: out of your hands and feet and just huge growths 155 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: to the point where, uh, these people can't function, they 156 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: can't have jobs, they must be in pain, I would assume, Yeah, 157 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's out of control growth. It looks 158 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: like it looks like some sort of a molding accident 159 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: with like a plastic figuring that sort of thing, you know, Yeah, yeah, um. 160 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: And what's also really interesting is some of the research basically, 161 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, they had come to a point where they 162 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: were like, well, this is a thing that usually happens 163 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: to people who are forty or older, but now most 164 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: of the examples we're seeing are actually happening to people 165 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: in the early years of life, which they think is 166 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:20,479 Speaker 1: because of a combination of uh, industrialized sort of ecosystems 167 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: that we live in and working outdoors, and we'll get 168 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: to that, but basically sunlight makes it worse, and also 169 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: renal transplant recipients and immunosuppressed patients have an increased risk 170 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: of developing these allegians that we're talking about here. Yeah, 171 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: and it's worth mentioning. So the immunosuppression here too. Obviously, 172 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: you know, it made me think of this and then 173 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: it does pop up in the literature. But it's a 174 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: lot like HIV in the in the sense that the 175 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the literature compares the lesion growths to 176 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: the same kind of lesions that some patients who have 177 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: HIV get um, but they don't grow as out of 178 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: control in HIV these case. Um. So, okay, we all 179 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: hear HPV get thrown around a lot. There's a lot 180 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: of like anti STD commercials on TV or at least 181 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: at least at least the TV I'm watching. I get 182 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: talked to about HPV all the time, but it's worth 183 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: probably revisiting, I think. Right. So, human papilloma virus this 184 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing. It's a sexually transmitted infection. 185 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: UH in the US. It belongs well, not just in 186 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: the US, UH, it belongs to a family of more 187 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: than a hundred and different strains of virus that can 188 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: cause warts on your toes and your fingers, are all 189 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: throughout your body. UM. Thirty in particular, of these hundred 190 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: different strains are spread as an STD. Those infections are 191 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: generally in the genital area, you know, for obvious reasons. 192 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: And you actually mentioned too that we've we've known about 193 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: hand plant are external and ano genital warts since antiquity, 194 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: but it's only in the last hundred thirty years we've 195 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: recognized laryn g awards and tream and disease as we're 196 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: discussing here, and only since the sixties and seventies that 197 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: we've made that connection to HPV. Yeah, And what's kind 198 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: of interesting here is is there's a lot of academic 199 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 1: research into this and it seems like they've pretty much 200 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: got it nailed down in terms of like what causes it, 201 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: why we why we get it, but that it's so 202 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: h incredibly rare that there aren't a lot of case 203 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: studies to operate with. Uh so, but with HPV, not 204 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: with e V. There's no cure, but there's preventative vaccines 205 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: and physicians can remove the infected tissue right probably the 206 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: same way like I described with the good old liquid 207 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: nitrogen being broken out. I had a wart on my 208 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: finger for the longest time, and they did the same 209 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: thing with that. They broke out the liquid nitrogen and 210 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: then they took like a scalpel and dug out some 211 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: of the stuff out of there. Afterwards, Um, yeah, my 212 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: thing I had removed is like was right in the 213 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: middle of my chest and like you can't even tell 214 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: that it was there now, but it was. It was 215 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: weird because that the like after I had it there 216 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: was I had to to like not swim or do 217 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: any kind of like yeah opening exercises, and every time 218 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: I would even imagine it, I would imagine just like 219 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: opening up my trip open, all my skin falling up. Yeah. Yeah, 220 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: it's weird, especially like it's one of those things where 221 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: it feels like your body is turning against you. And 222 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about these kind of like first world 223 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: little growths that that you know, I've experienced where it's 224 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: like I can't imagine just like your entire body just 225 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: growing out of control like this. Well, as you get older, 226 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: it's like your body changes his priorities where you know, 227 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: you're you're you're asking the body. You're saying, hey, body, 228 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: how about healing up this little you know, elbow injury 229 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: I sustained. Can we get some forces working on that? 230 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: And the bodies like, sorry, I gotta grow this nose 231 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: hair And you're like, how does that make over? Here? 232 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: This is more important? Well, you know, if if you 233 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: don't know a lot about HPV, and I'll be honest, 234 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: I didn't know a ton about it, but it's it's 235 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: actually a pretty common thing. Twenty million America have it. 236 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: That's why we see these commercials and such as a 237 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: lot of like health warnings about it of sexually active 238 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: people will get it at some point in their lives. 239 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: Six point two million Americans. That's way more than listen 240 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: to our show. But we'll like, we'd like to get 241 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: every person who has HPV to listen to the show. Uh, 242 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: they will get a new infection every year. And here's 243 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: the thing, most people who get it don't even know 244 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: it because they don't necessarily display the symptoms. They don't 245 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: all get these growths, right Uh. And in rare cases, 246 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: pregnant women who have HPV can pass it on to 247 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: their babies during birth. What often happens in that rare case, uh, 248 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: is the infants will get the growths in their throat 249 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: or on their voice box. Um. So that sounds unpleasant, 250 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: but but that's something that's fairly treatable. Like I said, 251 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: there's a vaccine. U e V or tree man disease 252 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: is basically like this gune totally haywire, just like the 253 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: extreme exam bowl. And again, we can't emphasize enough how 254 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: rare this is. So rare that it's only in our 255 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: modern Uh. It's only with our modern population and the 256 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: greatest population of humans ever and with our with our 257 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: media integration. Uh that we've been that that that it's 258 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: something that the average person might be aware of. Yeah, absolutely, uh. One. 259 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: Just like last comparison with HPV, so in HPV, the 260 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: growths are described as appearing as like soft cauliflower shaped lumps. 261 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: And there's been a strong connection found between HPV, HPV 262 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: and cervical cancer and women. So it is a major 263 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: health concern. Uh, and we know that smoking and recreational 264 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: drug use can make it worse because they suppress the 265 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: immune system. So there you go that that kind of 266 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: ties together with e V. Right, and that uh there's 267 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: that suppressed immune system causing the growth to be a little, 268 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: a little out of control. But also I wouldn't describe 269 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: the growths with e V as soft cauliflower from what 270 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: I've seen. Uh, there they look like bark, really looks 271 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: like And there's a lot of scientific terms that will 272 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: get into for like how how the different kinds of 273 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: growths are defined, but uh, yeah, it's it's something entirely 274 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: foreign to my experience. Okay. So one article that we 275 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: turned to in particular that was just sort of like 276 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: a a general overview of this disease is epidermisplasia varius, 277 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: aformist colon and early and unusual presentation by Emson and Caballer, 278 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: And they outline basically like a history of what we 279 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: know about this disease and sort of where where we've 280 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: gotten to with it. It was first described in ninety 281 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: two by scientists lou Lewin Dowski and Lutts, so sometimes 282 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: it's called Lewandowski and Lutts. Uh like dysplasia, I think, 283 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: um so if you're having like, if you're looking for 284 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: information about it, I found like obviously tree man disease 285 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,239 Speaker 1: pops up a lot of which is so does epidermis, 286 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: p blajia, verisa formist. But there's also different stuff that's 287 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: titled under the Lewandowski and Lutz heading as well. In 288 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: ninety nine, that's when we found out there there was 289 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: a relationship between it and high risk skin cancer, so 290 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: they kind of put the two together U E. V. 291 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: The way that it works is that there are mutations 292 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: on two of our genes in the people who get it, 293 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: ever one and ever two genes, and this is in 294 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: particular on chromosome chromosome seventeen Q two five. Now, there 295 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: was a lot of academic literature on the genetics behind this, 296 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: but it went way over my head and I felt 297 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: like it wouldn't be particularly useful to us or to 298 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: the audience. But just know there's a lot out there 299 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: if you're if you know your genetics and you want 300 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: to learn more about this, there's plenty to be found. Um, 301 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: what basically from what I could gather is that it 302 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: causes a defect of cell mediated community and this leads 303 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: the patients to be abnormally susceptible to the HPV uh. 304 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: And in some studies they said that it's specifically HPV 305 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: five and eight and then sometimes HPV fourteen, seventeen, twenty 306 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: and forty seven. Those are the ones that tend to 307 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: cause the bark growths. And these mutations have also been found. 308 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: There's a lot of research on this, but it was 309 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: also pretty impenetrable to me with my background. Uh. It's 310 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: found to inhibit and bote and complicate zinc distribution in 311 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: the human body, so that may also have something to 312 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: do with these weird growths as well. So the bark 313 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: here is described as an eruption of macules and papules 314 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: that are war like. So I guess this is where 315 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: like the soft color flower, it may look hard in 316 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: the pictures, but it's probably you know, war like in texture. Yeah. 317 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: And again, like in the in the research, there was 318 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: a lot of uh, just really in depth description of 319 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: the types of growths using words that I had no 320 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: idea what it or. Uh. So they'll they'll actually also 321 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: be other cutaneous lesions that form as well, and maybe 322 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: some of these are a bit harder. Uh, and these 323 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: are similar to what are found on AIDS patients as 324 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: as we've already mentioned scaly patches, etcetera. Now, these malignancies 325 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: don't usually manifest until at least forty years of age, 326 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: but because of more outdoor occupation and sun exposure. And 327 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: this is key because we may come back to this 328 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: with some related conditions. It's now beginning to showing younger people. 329 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: So because sun exposure can hasten the transformation, especially if 330 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: the patient is living at a high altitude. Yeah, that 331 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: seems to be another factor that they're concerned about. All Right, 332 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break and we come back. We're 333 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: going to discuss uh what we know about the treatment 334 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: of of e V. And we may also discuss just 335 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: a few related conditions that involve hardened skin growths. Okay, 336 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: so we're back. There have been many treatments that have 337 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: been tried on e V or tree man disease, and 338 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: I have to be honest that they have either been 339 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: ineffective or had only temporary results. So we've got oral 340 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: and topical retinoids that have been used interfere on immunotherapy, 341 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: electro desiccation. That sounds brutal. Yeah, this is uh basically 342 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: what this consists of. It's essentially like an electro cauterizing tool, 343 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: so you're you're you're destroying the tissue directly, uh, and 344 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: you're also preventing bleeding from from happening. Okay. That sounds 345 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: kind of like what I had with that war, Like 346 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: they scraped it off with a blade and then they 347 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: applied the liquid nitrogen like directly like open skin to 348 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: basically destroy the tissue. Yeah. Yeah, It's apparently a pretty 349 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: common dermatology technique. Okay. And the last one listed here 350 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: is cryrotherapy, which I imagine is what I had, uh 351 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: with using the liquid nitrogen. Okay. Some of the research indicates, however, 352 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: that if you apply radiotherapy to this, it may actually 353 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: cause the malignant transformations of skin lesions, so it makes 354 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: it worse. So that kind of goes in whether we're 355 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: talking about earlier with the exposure to the fun Yeah exactly, 356 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: And this is what led them to think like, oh, 357 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: maybe you know these people who have this genetic mutation 358 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: combined with working outdoors. Uh is somehow, you know, causing 359 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: these two to overgrow when they normally wouldn't UM. So, 360 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: the most effective thing that they have available right now 361 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: is surgical treatment, and it's basically doctors going in and 362 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: exercising the growths and then grafting other skin flaps over 363 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: them as a replacement um. And during surgery, these doctors 364 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: have to be really careful because they don't want to 365 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: hurt any major nerves or cause any other health issues. 366 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: But I mean, like again, like if you've seen the 367 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: photos of people who are afflicted with this, it's pretty 368 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: hard to tell what you would be carving into, you know. 369 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: I mean I imagine, like, let's take the hand just 370 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: as an example, like the structure of the skeletal structure 371 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: and the uh you know, blood and dermis and all 372 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: that that's in your hand would be there. But then 373 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: there's just this massive pounds and pounds of bark like 374 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: growths over it. So you've got to take it pretty slowly. Yeah, 375 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: I mean, in a sense, and this is simplifying, you're 376 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: kind of having to to carve the original form out 377 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: of the extra tissue. Yeah. So we have two examples 378 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: that we're going to touch on today, and these are 379 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: relatively recent during the last like ten years UM. And 380 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: from what I could find, other than these two guys, 381 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: there was like one other person that was a named 382 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: case study uh and he was in Romania. And then 383 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the other research referred to people that 384 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: they used as case studies. But I imagine that those 385 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: patients wanted their identities to be anonymous, so they didn't 386 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: use names, but they would say, like, for instance, like 387 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: one of the big case studies looked at a girl 388 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: who had worked on a farm at a high altitude, 389 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: worked outdoors, been exposed to a lot of sunlight. She 390 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: had tree man disease UH, and they were able to 391 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: they basically walked through like here's how it developed, here's 392 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: how the surgery went with her, YadA, YadA. But they 393 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: never named her. The two big ones that we know of, 394 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: the first is a guy named Abul Bajendra and he's 395 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: in Bangladesh and he uh this is relatively recently, slowly 396 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: lost his ability to work as these dozens of two 397 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: to three inch roots grew out of his hand uh. 398 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: And he was a bicycle puller. That was his job 399 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: and he had to stop doing it. I imagine that's 400 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 1: from my experiences in Southeast Asia. I imagine that's like 401 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: when you pull like a tuck tuck like carriage or 402 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah. Um. And then so what happened 403 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: was there was a team of surgeons at DOCA Medical 404 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: College Hospital that found out about his condition and they 405 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: offered to remove his growths, and the hospital itself way 406 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: of the costs. But it required multiple operations over time 407 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: to remove eleven pounds of growths from his hands and feet. 408 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: And there is an interview with his sister and she 409 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: said before that just hundreds of people would come and 410 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: visit his home over the years just to witness quote 411 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: unquote the tree man. Right. So there is a kind 412 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: of like mythical sort of I think, like uh, supernatural 413 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: quality to it, you know that that people probably are like, oh, 414 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: what is this thing? Yeah? I mean people would just 415 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: want to know why does this occur? Not only medically 416 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: but also teleologically. You know. In fact, when I was 417 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: doing some research for this one and trying to find 418 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: some some additional studies on it, like I found a 419 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: blog where where somebody's devoted entire blog to like disproving Christianity, 420 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: and this was one of their examples, they were like 421 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: this this exists, therefore there can be no God um, 422 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: which you know, I'm not going to get into the 423 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: particulars of that argument because I don't think it's quite 424 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: as simple as that, but but certainly, like that's the 425 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: kind of response people have, Like you see something like this, 426 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: and you have how does this fit into my worldview 427 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: that this is occurring? Uh? And then you know, how 428 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: does it fit into my worldview that this is how 429 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: we we treat these people and this is how some 430 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: of these people end up getting actual treatment for their condition. Yeah. 431 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: Based on a lot of like the stuff we've covered 432 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: in the past on the show, especially like thinking about 433 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, for instance, the history of witchcraft, I could 434 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: very easily see like something like this happening to somebody 435 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: in a village, doesn't matter where the village is, uh, 436 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: and the people in that society going, oh, they've been cursed. Yeah, 437 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: Like if I remember, someone is to blame, Yeah, if 438 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: I remember correctly. In Britain, one of the big witch 439 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: hunting tropes was that the witch would have a familiar, 440 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: which you know means hey, there's a straight cat in 441 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: that neighborhood or fields it's act like you virtually little 442 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: or nothing that you need to trump up that charge. 443 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: But then the additional charges that since it is some 444 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: sort of a demonic familiar she has an extra nipple 445 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: on her body, defeat it. And of course all you 446 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: need for that is just like the smallest skin tag 447 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: skin tag or award, and then yeah, that's all you need. Yeah, totally. 448 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: So Yeah, so this kind of thing I could see. 449 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: And this is this is what's particularly weird to us 450 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: about this is any time we've ever covered sort of 451 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: a medical curiosity like this, there is like a lineage, 452 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: like a trace throughout history of how it's been mythologized 453 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: or viewed by people. Tree man disease just doesn't seem 454 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: to pop up. Yeah, not specifically anyway. I mean, certainly 455 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: they're deformed characters throughout mythology and folklore, but but those 456 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: probably seem like different things. Like you know, we talked 457 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: about the elephant man at the top. Clearly that was 458 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: a very different condition. Yeah. Well, so there's the other 459 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: guy that's relatively I guess famous for having this disease. 460 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: He was in Indonesia's name was Day Day or d D. 461 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: Kaswara Uh and He had thirteen pounds or six kilograms 462 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: of these warts surgically removed from his body. He was 463 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: operated on at the Hassan Sadecan Hospital in West Java. 464 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Uh, he went through the surgery surgery 465 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: process and uh, even after the surgeries, they just kept returning. 466 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: You know, It's it's there right Like he he doesn't 467 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: have the genes for the to have an immune system 468 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: that will suppress HPV, so it's just continually going. Yeah, 469 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: and that's that's heartbreaking to think. I've imagine just going 470 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: through this, this tremendous surgery to rid yourself of these 471 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: growth and then they come back. Uh. And so this 472 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: was a guy that was highlighted in a lot of 473 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: Western media. Uh. He even appeared on our our old employers, 474 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: the Discovery Channel. I believe they had some kind of 475 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: a documentary or maybe a TV series episode about him. 476 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: So maybe some of you out there had seen something 477 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: like that. In fact, when I posted a picture not 478 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: of him, but of the guy from Bangladesh on on 479 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: Facebook yesterday, a lot of people said, oh, yeah, yeah, 480 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: I saw that on TV. I remember seeing this guy. Yeah, 481 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: and again it's it's weird. It puts me in a 482 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: weird place to to see that sort of thing, because 483 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: on one hand, it's great that, say, a TV production 484 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: company is going to pay for someone like this to 485 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: get the treatment they need. But on the other hand, 486 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: you get into that elephant man area right right to 487 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: what extent is this exploitation? Um? Yeah? And in fact, 488 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: Discovery paid for some of his medical bills for him 489 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: to have these multiple surgeries over and over again. Uh 490 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: so yeah, it is. It's a little I don't know, 491 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: it feels like there's an ethical quandary there, and I 492 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: don't know where I quite come down on it, right, So, 493 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: like thinking about it from our perspective, because obviously we 494 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: are part of the media. If you're listening to us 495 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: out there, you know, you're probably going, hey, Robert and Christian, 496 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: you guys are you know, being a little facetious here, 497 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: But we we recognize that, right. But it's sort of like, uh, 498 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: we wouldn't be able to fully cover and bring to 499 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: you the information about this disease if those these two 500 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: cases did Cassara and um Apple Gendre, if those weren't 501 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: thoroughly covered by the media. And that's where I first 502 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: found out about it, and then got the idea, let's 503 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: dig further into the academic literature. Otherwise, you know, I 504 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: wouldn't have known about it unless like I was a 505 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: genetic student or something like that, right, um. And yet 506 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 1: at the same time, it's sort of like, uh, it 507 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: feels a little gross the way that they are. I 508 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: don't know if exploited is the right word or not, 509 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: but but you know, like, so, so I'll give you 510 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: an example. And we may or may not use these 511 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: pictures for the thumbnails for the episode, but I think, well, 512 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: at the very least, we'll have at least have the 513 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: pictures of the condition on the landing page for the episode, 514 00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: so yeah, you know you'll be able to see speaking 515 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: see it there. In the case of Mr Bajendra, the photos, 516 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, there's something like I don't know in our 517 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: stock photo collection, like twenty photos of of him in 518 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: various angles, holding up his hands or holding up his 519 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: feet or sitting in an awkward position to showcase his disease. 520 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: And as I was looking at I was like, well, 521 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: this is useful because it gives us a visual representation 522 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: of it. But then at the same time, like I 523 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: could just see that this guy was uncomfortable, he felt 524 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: weird about it. Uh. He didn't quite know what to 525 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: do with himself, you know. And you could tell, like 526 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: off camera there was somebody who was like, Okay, can't you, 527 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, tilt your hand a little bit more this 528 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: way or whatever, and he just looks, you know, like 529 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: a deer in headlights, like he's scared, you know. Uh, 530 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: And so that that feels weird. But getting back to 531 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: kaskas Wara, Sorry I'm probably butchering these names. He very 532 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: first noticed his condition after he cut his knee when 533 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: he was a teen nature, which is interesting to me, Like, 534 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: I don't know how that connects, especially given like what 535 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: we know about high altitudes and sunlight and such and 536 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: and uh, but like maybe the way it healed, like yeah, um, 537 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: but it it ultimately led to ruin for him, you know, 538 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: as these growths grew out of control, he lost his job, 539 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: his wife left him, he was shunned by his family. Uh. 540 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: And then you know, the sad part of this is 541 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: is that even after getting all of these surgeries, just 542 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: recently in the last couple of months, he passed away. Uh. 543 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: And as far as I can tell, it was a 544 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: result of complications I don't know if it was necessarily 545 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: from e V, but he had complications with hepatitis, liver, 546 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: and gastric disorders. Uh, and so maybe the the e 547 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: V was somehow affecting those, or maybe it was just 548 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: another condition he had entirely. Yeah, I think a lot 549 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: of a lot of our fascination with it comes down 550 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: to the fact that this is kind of an extreme 551 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: and just overtly visual example of what so many of 552 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: our bodies eventually do. Our bodies eventually developed problems that 553 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: mess up our lives and in many cases in our lives. So, 554 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, we this is just kind of an outrageous 555 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: and arguably monstrous example of of of a of a 556 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: reality that we're all going to face. Yeah, it's especially 557 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: uh you know, like there's there's that kind of old trope, 558 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: especially in horror literature, which you out there know that 559 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: Robert and I are fond of, uh, the idea of 560 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: decaying beauty, right, Uh, and that especially in Western culture 561 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: that like we prize our good luck so much that 562 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: when they start to fade, will do anything to keep them. Uh. 563 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: The old Dorian Gray myth right, our story, it's not 564 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: really myth. Oscar Oscar Wilde wrote a story Penny Dreadful 565 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: Again during Crazy Character Yeah, uh and uh yeah, it 566 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: makes me think of I just started reading this comic 567 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: book that's kind of related. It's called The Beauty, and 568 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: the premise of the comic book is that there's a 569 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: there's a sexually transmitted disease called the Beauty, and if 570 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: you get it, you your body basically becomes beautiful, become 571 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: more sexually attractive. Like the side effects the symptoms of 572 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: the disease make you skinnier, make your skin look clearer. 573 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: Uh and and so you subsequently, subsequently you have people 574 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: walking around who all look like supermodels, and it seems 575 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: like from what I've read so far, at least in 576 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: the first issue, uh, they spontaneously combust after a while. 577 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: Oh well, you know, that's about how it goes. That 578 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: might be a problems. That's how it goes for beautiful 579 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: people in our world. And you just you go out 580 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: in a blaze of glory. But yeah, that's where the 581 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: fascination with this comes from. I think, right like, people 582 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: see this and they go, oh my god, that's my 583 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: worst nightmare. Because like I had a mole that I 584 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: had to have removed, whereas like you know this, these 585 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: these poorer guys can barely move their hands, they can't 586 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: operate tools, they can't do their jobs or wives leave 587 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: them all that stuff. It's rough, all right. So at 588 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: this point you're probably wondering, well, okay, this is this 589 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: is one extremely rare condition, But aren't there other conditions 590 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: that can petrify uh flesh that indeed may have informed 591 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: some of these myth cycles that we've alluded to. Well, yes, 592 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: there are, there are several conditions. We're gonna just run 593 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: through four known conditions that I think are good examples 594 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: of of the sort of thing happening elsewhere in the 595 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: world of disease. First of all, there's five row dysplacea 596 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: also funds Progress CIVA or fo P FOP. We actually 597 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: have a long detailed article about this at how stuff 598 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Uh, you just put FOP in there, 599 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: you will get to it. This is really it's not 600 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: just pictures of me um. Why do you have any 601 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: history with FOP or just or is that the palm 602 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,719 Speaker 1: age using it? Yeah, my foppish nature. So this condition 603 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the floppish nature or hair only. 604 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: It is an extremely rare connective tissue disease, and it 605 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: involves the ossification of fibrous tissue, including muscle, tendon and 606 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: ligaments due them due to mutation of the body's repair mechanisms. 607 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: So this sounds very similar. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the 608 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: body is like stuff that is not bone turns to 609 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: bone and it's you know, it's a horrible condition, but 610 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: it's a very real condition and it's extremely rare, but 611 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: more common than ev you know what this is reminding 612 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: me of from popular culture And I don't know if 613 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: he got if he cooked this up from from something 614 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: or if he just you know, made it up off 615 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: the top of his head. In Game of Thrones, there's 616 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: that disease gray scale that they get. I wonder if 617 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: that is something from like E V that he uh, 618 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: maybe read about, or maybe maybe from FOP from what 619 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: we were maybe. So I feel like there's like, definitely 620 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: that leprosy was definitely an influence on that condition. I'm 621 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: also reminded of one on the show Look Around You. 622 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: They had a condition called cobbles where it was, uh, 623 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: this is a look around You as a show that 624 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: some of our listeners might be familiar with. It was 625 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: a britt of brilliant British satire of educational films, and 626 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: the second season, which was kind of like a kid's 627 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 1: weird science kind of show like that was there there, 628 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: what they were parenting? They and they roll out this 629 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: character who has cobbles and so he's essentially just a 630 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: big pile of rocks, voiced by one of the actors 631 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 1: that went on to play a part in A Little Britain. 632 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: Oh really, okay, okay, yeah, you know it sounded familiar 633 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: and now I think that maybe why I've seen it. Yeah, 634 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: so maybe I don't know, maybe Cobbles was an influence 635 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: on George. Cobbles influenced gray scale and yeah, if I 636 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: remember correctly from the Lower and Game of Thrones, was 637 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: it like if you're touched by somebody with gray scale, 638 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: then you also get gray scale? I think so, like 639 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to contract and certainly seemed to to 640 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: to shadow leopardsy. Yeah, okay, so we've got some other 641 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: ones here. Yes, there's also Lifeopedean babies or stone babies. Uh. 642 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: These are formed when a fetus growing outside of the 643 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 1: uterus dies. They're too large for reabsorption, so they calcify 644 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: this is extremely rare. They're about three d known cases 645 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: and they generally occur with a topic pregnancy. So these 646 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: are embryo implants that occur somewhere other than the uterus, 647 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: you know what. I feel like I've seen an example 648 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: of this before. Uh. And I maybe talked about this 649 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: on this show before, and maybe I just talked to 650 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: you about it off air. Uh. Mrs In Jemmy, have 651 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: I talked to you about her before? She is a 652 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: pathologist or maybe she's a pathologist assistant who has an 653 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: Instagram account of all the stuff that comes through her 654 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: lab and it's fascinating. And she started doing a YouTube 655 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: series and someone brought in a fetus in a jar 656 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: that they had in like a curiosity shop or something 657 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: like that, and I want to say, and maybe misremembering this, 658 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: but that it had calcified. And she was like, Oh, 659 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: this is the stone baby thing. Is this related to 660 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: the Muti Museum? Uh? You know what? I because I 661 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: feel like I read that they have one of these. Yeah, 662 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: that might be it. I don't think that the version 663 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: that was brought to her was from the muter Museum. 664 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: But she's in I want to say, she's in New 665 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: York and muters in Philadelphia, right, so it's not that 666 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: far away from one another. Cool. Yeah, there's also a 667 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: there's also a really good Jezebel article about stone babies, 668 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: so I'll have to link to that on the landing 669 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: page for this episode. Al right. Next, of course there's 670 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: and this is another one that light tree man disease 671 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 1: has gained a lot of traction with just sort of 672 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: like look at this picture sharing on social media, and 673 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: that is cutaneous horns. So these are unusual, you know, 674 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: carroteen skin tumors. They may look like horns, they may 675 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: look like wood or even coral. Uh. And this in 676 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: one of the main causes here seems to be radiation 677 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: exposure to hands or face especially or they can also 678 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: emerge from burn wounds, but certainly exposure to the sun 679 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: can play a role in um, you in strengthening the effect. Yeah, 680 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: I could see those being especially tantalizing in the world 681 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: of social media, especially um when we did that article 682 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: and transdermal implants on how stuff works, that was a 683 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: huge hit, and that's people giving themselves horns. So I 684 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: imagine if if it's sort of a like uh uh disease, 685 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,720 Speaker 1: then it's it's going to attract some attention as well. Yeah, indeed, 686 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: and and with cutainous horns, you know, the treatment is 687 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: a little simpler and it also tends to be less 688 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: of a severe manifestation, you know. It's so it's it's 689 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: easier to deal with, but also rare. And then finally this, uh, 690 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: this last example is also thankfully very rare because it 691 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: concerns uh a few individuals of the of what are 692 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: known in Japan is the uh hyvakusha or the explosion 693 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: affected people UH. And this is an individuals who survived 694 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: the atomic bomb blast at the close of the Second 695 00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: World War. UM in particular, some Hiroshiama bombs of Iver's 696 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: apparently manifested strange rod shaped black nail growths. So essentially 697 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: what happened is they lost their nails and the explosion 698 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,760 Speaker 1: and they were horribly burnt. But then out of the wounds, 699 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: these black rods grew out and they weren't just typical 700 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: nails because they had active blood vessels inside them, so 701 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,919 Speaker 1: if they broke, they would bleed. Yeah, it's horrible, horrible situation. Say, 702 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: And like I say, luckily this is not something that 703 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: has occurred with the sort of regularity that would allow 704 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: it to be studied in. Yeah, it was almost gonna 705 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: make it. Well, yeah, I was going to make a 706 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: joke and now I'll metta tell you about the joke 707 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: I was going to make our colleague Josh Clark from 708 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: stuff you should know. I don't know what he did, 709 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: like maybe he slammed his fingernail into a door or 710 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: something like that, but he had a black fingernail for 711 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: a couple of months last year, and when we were 712 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: shooting video for series like brain Stuffer for this stuff 713 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: you should know video series, all the comments and YouTube, 714 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: they were just hyper fixated on the black fingernail and 715 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: we probably just had it was like blood, I think 716 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: that's what it was. Yeah, but you know, Josh like 717 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 1: he didn't want to respond or tell anybody what actually happened, 718 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: so we would just kind of mess with people after 719 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: a while. And uh so I was going to say, like, oh, well, 720 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: that black fingernails, that's what Josh has. Turns out it 721 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: is way worse. That is horrifying. Yeah. Yeah, and certainly 722 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: if you want more dis horrifying, not intern only in 723 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: terms of like this is a horrifying example of what 724 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: can happen to human body. But just like this is 725 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: a horrifying example of where humanity can go. Certainly there's 726 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: some other resources out there on the internet about the 727 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: explosion affected people. Okay, well that do we how do 728 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,439 Speaker 1: we dig our way out of that? That is really Yeah, 729 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: we've we've really given you a plethora of terrible diseases. 730 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: Uh to listen to us talk about uh and maybe 731 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: think some more about uh, you know, after you've listened 732 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I am, however, curious, because I know 733 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: a lot of scientists and grad students listen to this show. 734 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: If there's information out there about any of these things, 735 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: but in particular about tree man disease or e V 736 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: that we missed and that you you know, you want 737 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: to make sure that we get out there to our listeners, 738 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: please write in and tell us about it. We can 739 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: share that in a future episode. Yeah, and I would. 740 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: I would also challenge everybody that because pictures like this 741 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: that go around UH and and little sort of you know, 742 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: shallow news stories about individuals with the deformities of strange 743 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: medical con conditions, these are not going to go away. Dude. 744 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: This is just a part of being on the internet. 745 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: So I would just challenge everybody that, as these examples 746 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: come up in your Facebook feed or and you know, 747 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: your whatever, your news service of choices, Uh, look at 748 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: yourself a little bit, like do a little self reflection 749 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: and you know, ask yourself, why am I drawn to this? 750 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: Why can I not look away? What does this say 751 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: about the human condition? Was to say about me? And 752 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: then also you know, go a little deeper if possible, 753 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: if the material presents itself, to find out a little 754 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: more about who the person is and then what the 755 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: condition is. Well put, Yeah, I mean that's something that 756 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: we often try to do because it's work for us. 757 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,839 Speaker 1: It's our job. But so for instance, like I'll see 758 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: a link to something like a tree man photo on 759 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: like the Daily Mail or something like that, right, and 760 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: that maybe like a starting point, But for me, I'm like, well, 761 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: I want to dig deeper here. I want to find 762 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: out some more about this and also like what's going on? 763 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 1: Why is this something I'm attracted to? Right? So, like 764 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: we talked about in like our previous episodes about Wicked 765 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: Problems are also the Cargoism episode that we did, right, Like, 766 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: there's a little bit more participation that's available to us. 767 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: As citizens now in science, right, not just as consumers 768 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: of basically you know, just what would be like moderny 769 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: equivalent of of a freak show, right, Like like when 770 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: you click on that, it's the equivalent of paying a 771 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: nickel to walk through, uh, and to see the tree 772 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: man or whatever. Right, and and maybe give it a 773 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 1: little bit more thought than that. And also you know 774 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: what these poor individuals are going through. Indeed, now on 775 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 1: that high note, if you want to write to us 776 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: and tell us some more. Maybe you know more about this, 777 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: Maybe you're a geneticist, that would be great, and you 778 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: understand all the scientific jargon that I couldn't penetrate. Let 779 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,359 Speaker 1: us know the best ways to get in touch with us. First, 780 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: you can start on social media. We're on them, pretty much, 781 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: all of them were on Facebook, we're on Twitter, we're 782 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: on tumbler, and we are on Instagram. Now, uh and 783 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: where else? What's the good old fashioned way they can 784 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: reach out to Well, first of all, of course, there's 785 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind dot com and that's where 786 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: you'll find this podcast, all the other podcast blog post 787 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: videos links to those social media accounts. And also there 788 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: is a rumbling that the website will will become updated 789 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: in the months ahead. There's no definite timeline on that, 790 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,879 Speaker 1: but we're excited about seeing a facelift that happened there. 791 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: And then Yeah, the old old fashioned way is to 792 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: just shoot us an email, and you can do that 793 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: by writing us at Blow the Mind how stuff works 794 00:43:53,120 --> 00:44:04,760 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 795 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com. The big