WEBVTT - Christopher vs Ickstopher? 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:04.240 I am all in. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:14.560 You. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.640 I am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast. 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.880 Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in podcast. iHeartRadio, 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.200 R Heart Media, I Heart Podcast, one eleven Productions, one 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:34.959 eleven Podcasts, one eleven Media. There's so many companies to name. Hi, Michelle, 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:40.200 Welcome to the podcast. You're joined by the trepid crew 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.280 of Daniel Romo, Terras, Dude, Amy Sugarman, Suzanne French. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.120 And this is an episode of Point Counterpoint, with the 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:51.599 topic being Christopher akak Stiffer and I'm here for it. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.120 I like Christopher, say. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.400 You guys, So Michelle, you tell how we connect. But 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.680 I will say I didn't know until this very moment 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.840 where she stood on the Christopher versus Xtiffer. So nobody 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.320 write us and say I selected. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:14.480 Well. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:19.520 My brother in law grew up in southern LA and 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.760 he's one of those people that just kind of knows everybody. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.520 And I asked him one day because I really wanted 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.080 to get on the podcast. I said, do you happen 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.240 to know somebody named Amy Sugarman? And he said, yeah, 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:37.399 she was my sister's roommate in college. His sister is 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:42.520 JJ Martin and then he said his friend was actually 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.800 going to your house for around Thanksgiving. 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.640 So you guys, like, this is completely unbeknownst to me 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.080 that Michelle just randomly lobbed out how did I get 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:54.120 on this podcast? 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.760 And then her rando brother in law was like, well. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.240 In fact, I actually know her. 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.000 Yeah, JJ Martin a shout out. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.120 So, JJ Martin is a sorority sister of mine who 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:10.760 has gone on to literally have this fancy, fancy, amazing 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:15.200 designer clothing line and it's called Law Double J. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.120 So shout out to our connection. Yeah. 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.360 Yeah, she's amazing. She lives in Italy and she's in 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.400 Vogue all the time. I had no idea she was 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:25.400 like such a celebrity. 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.360 Yeah, she's like a legit full baller. But that's not 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:33.960 why we're here. Yeah, we're here to debate. Suzanne get 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:40.480 ready got spired up Christopher versus xtaper. 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:42.480 Michelle, you have the floor. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.560 I happened to really like Christopher. I feel like he 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:52.480 is that high school sweetheart of Rory's. I love that 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.280 they had the young love and that connection. I feel 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.440 he's a better match for her in the middle of 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:06.440 the seasons for rather than Luke. Although I do feel. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.960 That for me? 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:16.280 For me, but I feel towards season six and season 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.160 seventh at the end, after you know, she leaves Christopher, 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.520 that Luke is the better match. But the only thing 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.240 I don't really like about him is the way he 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:30.160 was a father to to Rory, being absent in her life. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.440 But I feel like he really stepped it up. So 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.760 I'm a fan. Scott. 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:36.640 Would you like to rebut first or would you like 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.800 me to just ask my questions? Oh, Scott froze, which 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:47.280 I think, Oh my god, Scott. 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.880 Okay, first, Okay, my question is how does an absent 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.480 father for the entire life of a child have any 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:57.720 redeeming qualities? 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.960 So was he actual absent? I mean, I think he 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.480 bothered from a distance, but he wasn't completely out of 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.200 our life. He still had a relationship with her. It 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.840 just wasn't that, you know. He was more of the 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:20.360 Disneyland dad, which I can relate to as well. Yeah. So, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.240 and I think he stepped it up once he got money. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.920 Yeah, and he was sort of dipping his toe in. Okay, 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.960 So here's our first question for you, and Suzanne's gathering 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.480 her fixed to her thoughts to him. Do you think 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.159 they have chemistry, because this was a big debate for 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.000 us in the episode we just did. Do you think 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.200 Lorelai and Christopher have chemistry? 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:52.000 I think they almost had like a brother sister chemistry 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.839 going on like in season one in season two with 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:59.800 the bickering and the little kid jokes and all of that, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.920 but I think it developed into a real world man. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.600 But in the end, she always wanted Luke deep down, 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.440 which I don't necessarily agree with fully, but. 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.000 Yeah, yeah, they have. 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.919 Like you kind of alluded to this, they do have 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:23.240 chemistry in that high school college ye way right, the 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.960 way you kind of do with like your first boyfriend 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:29.159 or your prom date. Like, they do have that, and 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.800 it is I think Suzanne sort of alluded to this 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:36.719 earlier this week when she said they revert back, and 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.120 I do think that that is accurate, Like they really 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.600 kind of go back to their younger days. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.760 And I think, Okay, I'm gonna throw this out there. 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.360 When something major happens in your life, typically trauma, which 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.080 you could just say a teen pregnancy is a bit traumatic, 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.720 you can be frozen in that age. So they do 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.599 go back to that sixteen year old age. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.800 I think they'll always have that no matter what, like 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.520 whether we like Christopher or we don't, you can't deny 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:12.719 that they are bonded and had have a relationship. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.120 And I'll never go away. I agree with you. I 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:15.800 think he's cute. 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.480 Michelle, what do you think of David slash Christopher? 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:26.360 Just like physically, I think he's okay. I think Luke 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.200 was much more handsome in the in the show, not 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.839 just saying that because he's on here, but Christopher's not 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:34.720 my type. I'll say that. 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.680 Wait, Susanne, you don't, You're not You don't think, Susanne 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:39.000 wiyh in. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:40.400 I don't want to put words in your mouth. You 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.239 give it. What is your thought on Christopher. 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.479 The actor or the character? 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:53.520 The character, but the physicality of David Sutcliffe, Well, I 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.720 think in a shocking turn here, I don't know. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.680 I think Christopher always has kind of a weird grin 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.720 on his face, and and he always, like when he's 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.040 looking at Lorla, he gets this like really intense, like 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.640 weird stare. And I don't so, I don't know if 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.880 that's an acting thing or if that's just how he 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:17.360 really is. 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:17.800 I don't know. 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.520 I'm I agree that they have like a friendship kind 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.960 of chemistry. I don't feel like a lot of romantic 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.200 kind of chemistry. I don't feel like Christopher is her 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.520 soulmate at all. I think he's just the boyfriend that 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.840 happened to get her pregnant in high school. And I 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.640 do agree with what you were saying, Tara, that they 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.040 because they that unexpected pregnancy did happen, Like that's always 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.840 going to connect them. They're always going to have a 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.720 bond for better or worse, They're always going to be 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:51.000 tied together in that way. But I think that they 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.800 really go back to, you know, and like I said 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.880 in the in the recap episode, they really are trying 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.280 to recapture whatever it was that they had as teenagers. 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.400 I don't think that they have really that much in 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.080 common as adults in their current place in life. And 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.680 they they you know, their banter, it goes back to 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.000 kind of a junior high kind of feel and the 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:17.280 clove cigarettes and. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.000 Just ribbing each other kind of the way you do 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.280 with your high school like boyfriend, the kind of like 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.120 ribbing each other. Wait, so Scott, I have a question 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:26.640 for you, but you need to take a deep breath 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.080 before I ask it. 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.280 Oh, I've been exhaling. 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:37.440 Okay, is there so try try to remove yourself and 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:38.800 being luke from this. 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:41.400 Is there anything redeeming? 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.599 No, I'm reacting as a fan as well. Okay, being objected? 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:46.439 Okay, fair? 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.880 Is there anything redeeming you can find in Christopher and 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.040 possibly Christopher and lorealize relationship? 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:56.800 Sure? 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:57.280 Yeah? 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:04.080 I mean listen, if somebody is that big of a 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.840 loser and they get their act together and they you know, 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:11.000 they have a moral crisis, and they realize that the 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.559 right thing to do is to come back into their 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.720 daughter's life, I think that is redeeming. I don't know 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:19.960 that it's one hundred percent redeeming, but that's a good 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:24.760 quality to have. Okay. And now the fact that he 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:31.720 has money, I think if you really love somebody, there's 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:36.560 there's that part of love loving somebody that means you 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.400 let them go so that they can be happy. Like 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.839 you had your shot. He had his shot, Yeah, and 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:50.120 it was like he had thirty five years of his shot. Sorry, 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.360 not so twenty years of it. Yeah, and it's like 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.960 here she is in a relationship and she's happy with 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.360 this guy. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.600 So since we kicked Danielle out, Suzanne Tara and Michelle 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:14.360 because Scott won't totally know. Don't you think finally in 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:20.160 the movies, we really see that that ship has sailed 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:21.080 with Christopher. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.040 Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:26.880 I mean I think we see it in season seven, 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.920 you know, when she finally does, you know, break it 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.720 off and just seal that, you know, put it behind 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.400 the cement wall and steel it off. Like I think 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.680 they both realized, Okay, this wasn't meant to happen. It 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:47.880 was just too forced. It wasn't smooth enough, it wasn't 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:51.440 easy enough, it didn't flow. And I think that I 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.120 think we saw that even in season seven. 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.920 Christopher looks so sad in the movies though, I mean 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:04.640 he is not committing in relationships. He looked like he 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:09.640 had just not been happy over the last ten years. 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.640 So maybe he still wanted Laura Lai when he has 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.319 that conversation with Rory in his office and when she 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.079 starts questioning him why he wasn't around as much as 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.400 he could have been, and he just seems sad. But 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.520 Laura Lai seems really happy with Luke and she's where 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:25.440 she's supposed to be. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.000 I think when you have a child, it just changes 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.560 the whole atmosphere. I mean, that's that's. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.959 Your kid, and I'm talking about Rory or. 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:41.439 I'm talking about I'm talking about Rory. I'm talking about Yeah. 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:47.400 And it's like it's better that somebody sees the light 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:52.400 and steps up, as Michelle is talking about and makes 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.800 an effort. But on the dad's side to his daughter 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:05.679 to really get involved and almost a reckless way in 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.400 her romantic life and to want to really have everything 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:16.319 back one hundred percent, I think I think it's just selfish. 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.360 I think a better person would realize that, hey, I 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.360 can be a great dad to my daughter Rory, be 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:30.679 in her life and be a friend with Laurlai and 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.199 be there when she needs me, and then I can 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.760 tend to my own daughter, Gigi. I mean, it's like, 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.760 what is this guy doing. He's like all over the place, 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:39.480 He's a mess. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.280 Is your thought like that he's finally rebuilding the relationship 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:48.880 with Rory right, and this like intent, you know, feelings 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.360 he has towards Loralai and continuing to try that is 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.400 actually harming what he's repaired with Rory. And I don't 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:58.840 want to put words in your mouth, but is that right? 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.640 I mean, it's like at a certain when you've had 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.080 a twenty year shot and you've blown it, let's just 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:08.040 repair one thing so that Rory can have her dad 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:09.839 for the rest of her life or the rest of 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:14.560 Christopher's life, natural life. And I think that's noble, and 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:19.679 I think he I think the character lacks nobility, and 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:25.119 that's that's really his tragic flaw. I think Luke possesses 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:30.040 all of the nobility that one can possess in his 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:36.040 kind of blue collarish way. So that's really all I'm 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:37.839 trying to say. I think I think it's great. I 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:43.800 think he always steps too far right. He doesn't prioritize 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.160 the relationship with his daughter, and he never did, and 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.000 now he's not doing it again. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.120 He's Yeah, to me, he's just like a teenager. He's 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.760 just like a young soul that's just here trying to 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.720 figure it out and has made a lot of mistakes 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:57.320 along the way. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.400 Right, this guy's never doing the right things in his 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:01.199 teenage years. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:06.560 Yeah, and he's just convinced that Lorelai is his true love, right, 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.839 and he cannot let it go. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.400 But don't you see so much growth with him and 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.840 his parenting skills with Gigi? I mean he's a completely 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:17.560 different father to Gigi than he was. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.720 True, well, yeah, the only parent she has right now. 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.240 Mm hmm, yeah no. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.800 But but I also don't I don't really agree because 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.640 he didn't know how to control Gigi like she was 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.840 a terror when she was giving her everything she wants. Yeah, 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:34.960 so I don't even I don't think he tried. I 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.800 mean maybe now where we're watching right now, we haven't 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.200 seen Gigi, but maybe it's better. But I don't think 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.960 that he was still parenting her the way a dad 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:46.520 should have. 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.760 I think he was probably so overwhelmed with it. Wasn't 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.240 he having a very contentious relationship with the baby mama? 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.680 Yeah she bailed him, Yeah, she bails and now she's 0:14:58.680 --> 0:14:59.720 off in parents. 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:05.840 And he and he's got a million, you know, entrepreneurial goals, 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.000 and the potential revenue streams that he's trying to set 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.960 up in half of them are fail doing. Okay, so 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.720 he's all over the place, and he's not spending the 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.040 time reading the books or talking to the psychologists, talking 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:22.160 to pediatricians about parenting skills. 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:23.960 But now we think he's got always. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:25.960 Seems to be the last priority for him, because he's 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:27.440 such a mess, right. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.360 I do see your point, Michelle. I think he did 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:36.320 develop a sense of responsibility more than he's ever had. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.000 And I think he also developed sort of an appreciation 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.760 for what Loralai had been going through all those years 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:47.480 that he was flitting around California and kind of, you know, 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.360 understood what she went through at a much younger age 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.800 than when he was going through it. But at the 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.520 same time, he is, like you were just saying, Scott, 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.280 the parenting is still a lower priority, like the he's 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.480 always taking mom's house or like we don't see her 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.480 that often because she's with his mom, and and you know, 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.120 that's a whole other thing about how his parents or 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.520 his mom likes Gigi but never liked Rory. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.800 Like that's a whole different look. With Christopher. There's remorse, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:24.800 there's consciousness of guilt, and there's an attempt to step up. Yeah, 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.200 the problem is is he's just so bad at it 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.920 and he's always screwing it up, and something in his 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.640 life is always sabotaging even his own efforts. And then 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.200 he comes off on the other hand, like you know, 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.840 Dirk Diggler, and here he comes in for the you know, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.600 the big romantic stuff and take me seriously. And it's like, 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.680 how supposed to take this guy seriously as a character 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.160 when he can't even get the little stuff right with 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.880 his own daughter, their daughter, and now we're supposed to 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.360 sort of respect him as a man who's good enough 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.800 for Laura. It's a it's a hard leak to. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:05.439 Make, but I have to give Christopher some whatever the 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:06.520 term is. 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.960 Great. Of course, his dad was horrible. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.440 He has one of the meanest dads. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.920 My dad was, but you guys see him. Hang on 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.879 a second, how old is christ How old is Christopher 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:20.280 right now? 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.800 He's a thirty five? 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.320 Yeah, okay, you can't. You can't whine about your daddy. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:29.360 Yeah you can, because his. 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.639 Dad is well after twenty five, you can. 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:33.879 That's not a rule. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:35.000 Is a rule. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.080 There's plenty of people in therapy, therapy at fifty talking 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:39.000 about their parents. 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.480 Fine, but they don't sit around and let it sabotage 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.400 their lives and they don't. 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.240 Well, what I'm asking you, guys, is, don't I mean. 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.320 We saw that episode where Christopher's dad was so. 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:52.320 Horrible terrible? 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.760 Yeah, so don't I mean, like, I don't blame you 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:57.159 feel like. 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.040 He's turned out better than he could have sunlight. I 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.040 don't know, Michelle, what are your final thoughts on it? 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.719 Well, you guys have kind of swayed my opinions a 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:10.200 little bit. 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.119 I don't. I don't. I don't like, I don't like. 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.600 I don't like fathers that abandon their kids. There's no 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.640 excuse for it. I do not. I detest people like that, 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.480 moms that abandon their kids, dads abandon their kids. It 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:27.600 really should. 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:32.919 Definitely dislike Sherry because it's the saale Gigi completely. 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.879 Doesn't mean that Christopher has to run around screwing up 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.920 everybody's lives at the right. Yeah, doesn't. That's no excuse. 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.520 Yeah, Like, my husband was a teenage parent, you know, 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.280 and so he was seventeen with a baby and involved 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:50.359 in her life in. 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:52.440 Every possible way, fantastical. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.600 So being young is not an excuse. 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.879 It is not an excuse. It's still yeah, it's an 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.000 absolutely yes, it is a choice. You wake up in 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:04.680 the morning and you make a choice. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.199 I do think that he wanted to make that choice, 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:13.240 and Laurel I rejected that choice for him. So I'm 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.080 not saying he shouldn't have wrong. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:16.359 Well, no, she did. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.520 She definitely did there's courts. No, he could have he 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.159 could have been present in Rory's life through the courts. 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.199 He could have fought for his own daughter to be 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.280 in her life, and he chose not to. He chose 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.640 to go away because he's a weak person, well, who 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.520 is always looking for an excuse and a way out. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:41.440 There's there's several instances of various evidence throughout the show 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.040 that that was a choice that he made to stay away. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.879 Not Laura, I if you in the episode, well, the 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.040 episode where he comes back to town first of all, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.040 and then the episode where uh oh, when Rory has 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:58.119 the debutante ball and she's trying to get Christopher to 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.240 come back. It's they the dialogue, they make it very 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.320 clear that it was Christopher's choice to stay away, and 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.720 they she tells Rory, Oh, he's one hundred percent for 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.520 sure going to be there, and then Rory's like, oh, 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.359 so there's a fifty to fifty chance, Like it's clear 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.560 that it's he's like the deadbeat. 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.200 Well, I don't, I don't sure. I don't know. 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.919 Part of me though, knows that in some way, I 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.439 do think he was sort of honoring and everybody can 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:30.960 yell at me, what Laura Lai wanted Laura la He 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.080 wanted to marry her. He was going to move in 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.920 with the Gilmours and work for the you know, either 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.560 Richard or his dad, and he wanted to be he 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.280 was going to marry Lorlai and she said, no. 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:47.720 La, it's not Laureli's decision to make on how often 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.960 he can see his own daughter. He didn't do anything 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.560 so horrible, right, What what did he do that was 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:58.440 so horrible? He wasn't abusive to either one of them. 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.920 We would have gotten that door in the backstory thus far. 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:04.359 He was just a flake and he didn't he didn't 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.080 fight for his own daughter, He didn't fight for his 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:06.679 own family. 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.000 Characters a little bit more benefit of the doubt than 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.000 maybe others. And that's okay, I'm giving him a little 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:14.879 bit of So you're. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.919 Saying as as a teenager and as a guy in 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.240 his twenties, and how many times he tried to come 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.040 back to Rory's life. Every single time Rory convinced him 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.760 that you're please stay away. The best, the best thing 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.640 you can do is stay away because you're so weak, 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:31.880 and he goes, yeah, you're right, I am, so I'm 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:36.359 not saying that find myself. Well, that's basically what you're saying. 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.080 He never stepped up and fought for his own daughter. 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:41.720 I agree with that. 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:46.480 You you these kinds of people deserve zero respect in 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:47.200 my book. 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.640 Well, I also think it comes back. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.400 Even if they're on television, it comes back, and they 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.200 have great haircuts, and they wear nice clothes and they 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:56.800 smile real nice. 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.639 It kind of comes back, lying, Yeah, it kind of 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:04.280 comes back to right now, how like Christopher will do 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.439 anything Laurel I says, like we literally talked about this 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.440 in the episode we just recapped, and yeah, puppy dog 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:18.000 and so like it actually checks out because he's consistent, 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.760 Like he's consistently done whatever she is. 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:25.919 That's a good point talk, you know, like stay away 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.400 from what she suggests, stay. 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.399 Away from me and Rory. Okay, I will come around 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:33.639 for her birthday. Okay, I will if you want to 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:36.440 pay for school, okay. You know, like he's just he's 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:40.080 just a yes man for whatever Laura I wants. Because 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.239 I think in the end, he wants Laura I, and 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.600 so he'll do whatever she wants. 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.480 Yeah, yeah, I think. 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:51.600 For him, Laurel I has always been more of a 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:53.040 priority than Rory. 0:22:53.440 --> 0:23:04.679 Yes, yeah, I agree with that. I don't know if 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:08.000 we solved the mystery of christ. 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.360 It's not a mystery, it's it's it's the least complicated 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:15.520 thing in the world. He's just a deadbeat, That's all 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:16.200