Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you are listening to Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a
Speaker 1: Grammy nominated musician whose records have topped the charts in
Speaker 1: the US, the UK, and Australia. He is also a
Speaker 1: world class photographer whose work has been exhibited in the
Speaker 1: US and abroad. He is also the son of one
Speaker 1: of the most famous musicians of all time. Julian Lenin's
Speaker 1: current photography work is on display in the recently published
Speaker 1: book Life's Fragile Moments. In addition, Lenin is the Chief
Speaker 1: Visionary Officer of the White Feather Foundation, which partners with
Speaker 1: philanthropists and charities around the world to support various humanitarian projects.
Speaker 1: Julian Lenin is kind, talented, and enormously generous, and despite
Speaker 1: growing up in an unimaginably famous family, Lenin has made
Speaker 1: a name for himself through his various creative and humanitarian endeavors.
Speaker 1: It's a career that demands an impressive work ethic.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty full on really when it comes to work,
Speaker 2: and you know, if I have started something, I have
Speaker 2: to finish it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's just it's just this driving purpose that I have
Speaker 2: inside to get things done, to two books like this, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it just makes me feel like I'm worthy of something,
Speaker 2: you know, And initially that's really to prove it to
Speaker 2: myself that I'm not just a lazy piece of shit,
Speaker 2: but that I have worth. And so doing all these
Speaker 2: things has been very, very even more important in my
Speaker 2: position because you know, I really felt like, especially over
Speaker 2: the last five ten years, that I needed to lay
Speaker 2: a foundation down of all the things that I'm interested
Speaker 2: in and all the work that I want to do
Speaker 2: where nobody could deny the fact that I've actually am
Speaker 2: capable of these projects, you know, from whether it's from
Speaker 2: the White Feather Foundation, whether it's from Yes, whether it's
Speaker 2: working on documentary projects, whether it's writing children's books, environmental
Speaker 2: humanitarian stuff, whether it's you know. Now, photography has been
Speaker 2: the main stay because I've just fallen in love with it.
Speaker 2: And also that thing of being behind the camera, which
Speaker 2: is I don't mind and I've said this before being
Speaker 2: a bit of a goof in front on occasion, but
Speaker 2: again I really get that anxiety being in.
Speaker 3: Front of the camera. Did you say, goof yeah, goofball.
Speaker 1: I wonder where that, if your personality comes from well, yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, certainly that was. He was a complete
Speaker 2: nut job, you know. I mean I'm so jealous of
Speaker 2: his days with Peter Sellers, you know, and obviously George
Speaker 2: with the Monty Python crew, because I mean I grew
Speaker 2: up on that stuff. You know, I absolutely adore and love.
Speaker 2: You know, that is number one for me, that kind
Speaker 2: of humor, that kind of twisted, slightly English, you know,
Speaker 2: left of field approach, and they were goofballs beyond the luck.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, among the best, Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 3: So I always say that's the difference.
Speaker 2: It's a pleasure to watch them in the old movies,
Speaker 2: you know, just the quirks, the comments, the wit, you know,
Speaker 2: the speed of that wit as well. From the old days.
Speaker 1: Lester knew he just like I mean, Lester. I always
Speaker 1: say that Lester was a genius. He just got out
Speaker 1: of their way, just film to put a camera on
Speaker 1: and do whatever the fuck they wanted to.
Speaker 3: But we don't like we'll throw out or we like.
Speaker 2: That's the best thing you can do.
Speaker 3: Now, I want to talk.
Speaker 1: About your mom, and I want to talk about her
Speaker 1: because of course you're raised by your mom. Your dad
Speaker 1: was off doing his thing, and your mom, who is
Speaker 1: always seems like this really really like beautiful, stoic figure.
Speaker 1: She was somebody who accepted how she was treated and
Speaker 1: how she was dealt with and moved on to raise
Speaker 1: you. You're only her only correct. She had one child and
Speaker 1: she raised you correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what was that like for you in terms
Speaker 1: of I don't want to say in a broad sense,
Speaker 1: but what was that like for you in terms of
Speaker 1: your life and the reverberance of this other valley over
Speaker 1: there of something else as well.
Speaker 2: No, reverberance didn't really affect me at all. I mean,
Speaker 2: that didn't exist in my life as a young kid.
Speaker 2: It really didn't know, not at all. I mean when
Speaker 2: Dad left when I was about three or four or whatever,
Speaker 2: it was apparently I used to have nightmares about it
Speaker 2: because obviously he was dad at that point in time.
Speaker 2: But once, you know, other people filled that void.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: My first stepfather, who was Italian, was like an older
Speaker 2: brother to me, another nutjob and someone who I looked
Speaker 2: up to massively, and we continued that relationship until his
Speaker 2: death about twenty years ago. But yeah, it was just
Speaker 2: Mom and I, you know, and I think I am
Speaker 2: the way I am truly because of her and because
Speaker 2: well how she dealt with the situation she was left
Speaker 2: in that she had no choice. You know, she could
Speaker 2: have screamed and shouted about it, but she didn't. I
Speaker 2: felt that she just had dignity and grace and moved
Speaker 2: on with her life as best she could, and you know,
Speaker 2: survived it pretty done well. And I carried that, and
Speaker 2: I definitely feel I carried that. And without question, this
Speaker 2: is one thing she said to me, and I certainly
Speaker 2: took it to heart when I was a bit more
Speaker 2: rough around the edges, which was that I was very
Speaker 2: much like Mum in the week and Dad at the weekends.
Speaker 2: So that the other way that was true to form
Speaker 2: back in the day, no question about that. Not so
Speaker 2: long ago, but long enough.
Speaker 3: You run.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I had a few runs, and I had
Speaker 2: runs in Europe. I had runs in New York, runs
Speaker 2: in LA runs back in Europe. But now you know,
Speaker 2: I actually likely and I like waking up feeling good.
Speaker 2: I like working, I like all the projects that I do,
Speaker 2: and I enjoy life, you know, and I do everything
Speaker 2: now that I possibly can to maintain and live a
Speaker 2: longer and better and healthier and happier life.
Speaker 1: Well, I say to people, I said, I realized that
Speaker 1: drugs are like a toy, like when you're a kid.
Speaker 3: But eventually you got to put it down like other toys.
Speaker 3: And I'm glad, I you know, for me, I just
Speaker 3: had to put it down. Now.
Speaker 1: The thing that I'm think again about your mom is that,
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing has seeped in more lore and bullshit
Speaker 1: than your whole family and the whole situation.
Speaker 3: No, but I mean people making up shit. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: we have the fact.
Speaker 1: But I remember this story somebody tell me, were like,
Speaker 1: they're all running to get on a train, You're left behind.
Speaker 1: That was a metaphor for the whole thing. They're all
Speaker 1: going where they're going, and I'm not going with them.
Speaker 3: That was real.
Speaker 2: That is real, absolutely real. She was left on the
Speaker 2: stage train station. Oh yeah. And it was only after
Speaker 2: the train gone that she was you know that they realized,
Speaker 2: or site Brian realized, really because he kind of took
Speaker 2: care of mom as best as he could, you know,
Speaker 2: because obviously she was not supposed to be around either.
Speaker 2: You know, back in those days, none of the boys
Speaker 2: were supposed to be married or had girlfriends, you know,
Speaker 2: kids or kids. Thank you very much out of here.
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, so, yeah, she was left on this train.
Speaker 2: There's actually a picture of her standing on that train
Speaker 2: station on her own after the train left the station.
Speaker 2: You want to talk about representation, Yeah, well that's it
Speaker 2: right there.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: The thing I find interesting when you talk about it
Speaker 1: or this is my take, so forgive me if i'm
Speaker 1: and that is one of the things that was lost
Speaker 1: in his life, your father, because of his success, because
Speaker 1: of his preternatural no one lived that life before them,
Speaker 1: and because of all that shit with your father, what
Speaker 1: was robed from him was a chance to be something
Speaker 1: I think he would have been pretty good at, which
Speaker 1: was a dad.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. He began to be that with
Speaker 2: Sean for years and during Sean's upbringing as well. And
Speaker 2: that's why I love him so much. And because of
Speaker 2: what I went through, I don't want to see him,
Speaker 2: you know, go through the same kind of crap that
Speaker 2: I did. And you know, he's certainly gone through what
Speaker 2: I did, and if not worse, you know, having me
Speaker 2: as another element to contend with. But he's made his
Speaker 2: way through. He's a talented mofo. And yeah, I saw
Speaker 2: him the last two nights and we rarely get to
Speaker 2: see each other, but we just hang and we order
Speaker 2: in and we just talk about life and where we're
Speaker 2: at and how we're doing, and we're still here thankfully,
Speaker 2: and that we love each other, and that's the most
Speaker 2: important thing in the world, regardless of our positions or
Speaker 2: where we ended up.
Speaker 1: When you were a child, you picked up musical instruments
Speaker 1: to play them, at least within a thought of being
Speaker 1: serious about it. You know, one thing to be three
Speaker 1: years old, But another thing, when did it really start
Speaker 1: to kick in for you?
Speaker 3: When you were How old your music? Well?
Speaker 2: I well, the thing was, I think I started playing
Speaker 2: a little bit in school about the age of eleven
Speaker 2: or two of thirteen. And it was actually my best friend,
Speaker 2: Justin Clayton, who's still my best friends from since we
Speaker 2: were eleven years old and I still work with him
Speaker 2: to this day. He co produced the last album Dude
Speaker 2: with Me and co wrote a lot of stuff. It
Speaker 2: was actually him that would go to these guitar lessons
Speaker 2: to learn how to play rock and roll with the
Speaker 2: guitar teacher who had one of those da haircuts. Sorry,
Speaker 2: he was a gym teacher. He was a pe teacher
Speaker 2: who had a da you know, ducks on grease back haircuts,
Speaker 2: and whenever there were breaks, Justin would go and I'm going,
Speaker 2: where are you going? What are you doing? And you know,
Speaker 2: he'd be there with a few other friends learning puff
Speaker 2: the Magic Dragon at first, but then Johnny be Good
Speaker 2: and I started getting interested in that. I started playing that,
Speaker 2: and then Dad heard about that, and so when I
Speaker 2: actually went to visit him in New York when I
Speaker 2: was about eleven, I think it was about that time.
Speaker 2: You know, he would start teaching me a couple of
Speaker 2: basic chords on guitar too. But I actually had an
Speaker 2: interest in acting, I believe it. I know I was
Speaker 2: going to get before that. Before yeah, before I got
Speaker 2: a serious interest in music. Yeah, because I did a
Speaker 2: fair amount of I did the year end plays that's
Speaker 2: in school, and I had an offer for the Shakespeare Company.
Speaker 2: They were scouting and I was picked out as one
Speaker 2: of the potentials. But then I learned how to play
Speaker 2: four chords and the girls got up and screamed at.
Speaker 3: You for you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was the end of it, you know,
Speaker 2: But I guess I really got closer and closer to it.
Speaker 2: Justin and I we got heavily you know, as kids
Speaker 2: to teenagers, do you start listening to stuff that you love,
Speaker 2: whether it's the Beatles or led Zeppelin or a CDC
Speaker 2: or Peter Frampton or Keith Jarrett. You know, so steely Dan,
Speaker 2: You know, I really fell in love with music in
Speaker 2: that regard. And again after learning how to play a
Speaker 2: couple of chords and starting to sing a little bit,
Speaker 2: that's really where that kind of took off. And he
Speaker 2: just in a nice I died writing songs about fifteen
Speaker 2: sixteen seventeen.
Speaker 3: Was the acting before that week? Yeah? The was before then?
Speaker 3: Why didn't the acting last?
Speaker 2: I mean I did enjoy it, and I always thought
Speaker 2: I'd be an actor later on in life. Still do
Speaker 2: still did well, I don't know about do because I
Speaker 2: always loved the older actors like Albert Finney, you know,
Speaker 2: that deep emotional dark side of acting.
Speaker 3: Do you did it for that brief period then you
Speaker 3: walked away because of music? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just fell head over heels for the music. Also,
Speaker 2: one of one of the problems that I still endured
Speaker 2: to this day is that I have a terrible memory.
Speaker 2: So remembering lines was a big thing for me, and
Speaker 2: even remembering lyrics and songs these days as a problem
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: When you started to make your music, were you just
Speaker 1: really conscious of just doing what you wanted to do
Speaker 1: when you're what you felt, let the echoes fall where
Speaker 1: they may, and you didn't really care exactly right?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I cared, you know. I was concerned
Speaker 2: about the responses I was going to get. But it
Speaker 2: was just a question of enjoying the moment and going
Speaker 2: through it and plowing on. And that's what I did,
Speaker 2: you know, And.
Speaker 1: Did you have your George Martin, somebody who said with
Speaker 1: you and saying do this, don't do this, this is better,
Speaker 1: this is weaker.
Speaker 2: I would have to say that a lot of the
Speaker 2: earlier stuff was being pushed around a lot. I mean,
Speaker 2: I you know, I went with the flow, but I
Speaker 2: did follow the rules back then. I think it was
Speaker 2: when I started not following the rules that I was.
Speaker 2: I became a diva and the difficult one, and I
Speaker 2: started getting dropped by management, dropped by record companies.
Speaker 3: Because you wanted to do what you want to do.
Speaker 2: Now, I just didn't want to do that what they
Speaker 2: wanted me to do anymore, and I just said no,
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, I feel for the kids these days,
Speaker 2: because I mean, if we thought we had a lot
Speaker 2: to do on the promotional front back in the day,
Speaker 2: there's you know, one hundred gazillion times more things to
Speaker 2: be done these days. You know, where you can't even breathe, you.
Speaker 3: Want Johnny Carson when you were twenty one years old?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that was fabulous.
Speaker 3: I mean, Jesus Christ, how much more pressure can you have?
Speaker 3: Twenty one?
Speaker 2: But I know it was all a bit of fun
Speaker 2: back there, you know, I mean, no, yes, anxiety, but
Speaker 2: it was you know, I was with the band. I
Speaker 2: always considered that I was with the band because that's
Speaker 2: where I felt comfortable. It's like a lot of the
Speaker 2: TV shows that I ended up doing throughout Europe and
Speaker 2: America too, that they'd always want to put me on
Speaker 2: this podium or platform way in front of the band
Speaker 2: and the band behind me. I'm going, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no. You're lining me up with the band so
Speaker 2: I can react with the other players that I'm singing
Speaker 2: and playing with. I want that, I need that. I
Speaker 2: don't feel like this solo artist that should be just
Speaker 2: standalone way up in the front there. Although there were
Speaker 2: occasions that I had no control over. But for the
Speaker 2: most part, I would always try to have the band
Speaker 2: be inclusive of whatever scenario I was going through, because
Speaker 2: that was the camaraderie. That's where I felt a little
Speaker 2: safe for part of a part of and where the
Speaker 2: boys joke around. You know. It was a familiarity to
Speaker 2: what I'd seen, you know, in the Beatles films and
Speaker 2: all of that stuff, where you know, it was this
Speaker 2: the lads having a bit of fun, you know. But
Speaker 2: don't get me being solo, you know, on your own
Speaker 2: in front of all that, with the rest of that
Speaker 2: kept away from you. There were a few occasions like
Speaker 2: that that with the management. I just I can't be
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: Julian Lennon and the Hurricanes.
Speaker 2: I know, I had to be in it, you know,
Speaker 2: in it with the boys.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Musician, photographer, and philanthropist Julian Lennon. If you enjoy conversations
Speaker 1: with the most creative minds in music, check out my
Speaker 1: episode with radio Heads Tom York.
Speaker 4: There's always really exciting music being made. It's never not
Speaker 4: being made. It's a question of whether you're going to
Speaker 4: get to hear it or not. I mean, I kind
Speaker 4: of knew the game was up a few years ago
Speaker 4: when one of our sort of team of people came
Speaker 4: in saying, Nokia wants to offer you, did it are
Speaker 4: millions of pounds because they want content for their phones?
Speaker 4: And this is like in two thousand, I don't know,
Speaker 4: early two thousands, and you're like content, what you know? Content?
Speaker 4: What do you mean music?
Speaker 1: Yes to hear more of my conversation with Tom Yorke,
Speaker 1: go to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break,
Speaker 1: Julian Lennon shares his thoughts on the music industry today
Speaker 1: and what he enjoys listening to in his downtime. I'm
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Julian
Speaker 1: Lenin has released seven albums of his own music since
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four. He's an artist with a rich and
Speaker 1: diverse background of life experiences to draw inspiration from. I
Speaker 1: was curious about Lennon's thoughts on current music and what
Speaker 1: the son of a beatle and enjoys listening to in
Speaker 1: his free time.
Speaker 2: There's a few new artists that I love out there
Speaker 2: that are fusion and jazz orientated. There's a band called
Speaker 2: Snarky Puppy. I don't know if you know those down
Speaker 2: Snarky Puppy. They can be between up to at least
Speaker 2: twenty people in the band, and they're all soloists in
Speaker 2: their own right. They have their own albums and they
Speaker 2: do their own tours independently, but they also work as trios,
Speaker 2: quartets and as this kind of eighteen twenty piece group,
Speaker 2: and they come together several times a year to do
Speaker 2: an album or two and they tour all together as well.
Speaker 2: A friend of mine who actually played on this album.
Speaker 2: Two of the founding members of Snarky Puppy, Michael leegh
Speaker 2: is an incredible multi instrumentalist bass player, and Bill Lawrence,
Speaker 2: who did some piano with me. And we've written a
Speaker 2: few things that will come out down the road. But
Speaker 2: there's a couple of radiotions I listened to in particular
Speaker 2: that play independent stream interesting. Yeah that while I'm while
Speaker 2: I'm editing photos, I'm doing stuff like that, or just
Speaker 2: working in general, I'll have that music on in the background,
Speaker 2: and every time I catch something I like, I'll you know,
Speaker 2: shizam it and put it in.
Speaker 3: A standing on chairs and restaurants.
Speaker 2: But I'll just be able to you know then and there,
Speaker 2: put my phone up and go and I'll have a
Speaker 2: Shazam playlist, which is about two or three hundred songs
Speaker 2: now that I'll just rotate in between listening to one
Speaker 2: or two of those radio stations.
Speaker 1: In my mind in the way that we experience music,
Speaker 1: all the music that goes into your brain in your youth,
Speaker 1: and the things that helped to shape you in terms
Speaker 1: of your emotional fragility. Like I run out the door
Speaker 1: and I see to myself. I got to make as
Speaker 1: much money as I can. My father had no money, right,
Speaker 1: Having no money destroyed my father. He died when he
Speaker 1: was fifty five years old. He had cancer, rabid form
Speaker 1: of cancer. And I look at my dad and I
Speaker 1: go my father working as hard as he did, not
Speaker 1: having any money as were killed him.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: He had six kids, no money, his school teacher, and
Speaker 1: I said, I can't. I mean, I remember like walking
Speaker 1: around LA when I was first. Don't end up like dad.
Speaker 1: Don't end up like that. Don't end up like dad.
Speaker 1: I started working when I was twelve, So as you
Speaker 1: get older, I can only listen to that music to
Speaker 1: soothe me.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's my music.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a safety in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a part of me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I agree. I fell in love with
Speaker 2: that kind of all the variations of that kind of
Speaker 2: music back in the day, and they and half of
Speaker 2: the stuff that I still listened to was certainly at
Speaker 2: a relatively relevant point in my life, different moments in
Speaker 2: my life that I went through where I was growing
Speaker 2: up that I can go, you know very much, or
Speaker 2: a reminder of a time and a place which I
Speaker 2: don't today's music necessarily does, and the same manner at all.
Speaker 2: You know, there's certainly a level of emotion that's disappeared
Speaker 2: and depth of quality.
Speaker 1: No, but I mean you're like, you sit there and
Speaker 1: you go father Mackenzie wiping the dirt from his hands
Speaker 1: as he walks from the grave.
Speaker 3: No one was saved. You sit there and go, who
Speaker 3: the fuck's going to write that? Now?
Speaker 2: Maybe Tom York, Maybe Tom New York.
Speaker 3: He did our show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know he did. I listened to the show
Speaker 2: that's why. Yeah, that's what made me want to come
Speaker 2: on that and I went, yeah, that was a great show.
Speaker 2: So actually one of the first times I've actually heard
Speaker 2: him speak and be comfortable and natural on the show.
Speaker 3: We've been people in here. We just really love them.
Speaker 1: Now since you're twenty one years old, officer, even before
Speaker 1: you're surfing in between. In terms of music, you have
Speaker 1: a music career and you start making films. You made films,
Speaker 1: directed and produced.
Speaker 2: Well, no, what happened was now, and this was much
Speaker 2: later in life. It was over twenty five years ago,
Speaker 2: that's for sure. But I had a song called salt Wa,
Speaker 2: which was an environmental and humanitarian song that pretty much
Speaker 2: was top ten, top five worldwide except for America, where
Speaker 2: I had a really shitty record company that did no
Speaker 2: promotion whatsoever. But I was number one in Australia. So
Speaker 2: I went over there and I was touring, doing promo
Speaker 2: tour and playing live at the same time, and I
Speaker 2: was this was the birth of the White Feather Foundation
Speaker 2: as well. We were number one in Australia. I was
Speaker 2: hosting all kinds of shows. Saltwater was playing all over
Speaker 2: the place. I was invited by the hotel down to
Speaker 2: the lobby who said, you know, we've got an indigenous
Speaker 2: drive down here that want to talk to you. And
Speaker 2: I said, You've got to be kidding, right, You know,
Speaker 2: on the road you get these pranks people have played.
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking, yeah, sure, sure, going to be hanging
Speaker 2: out in the lobby, but they were and with several
Speaker 2: news crews, and so I went downstairs. Elevator door opened,
Speaker 2: and I don't know thirty forty fifty, I couldn't tell
Speaker 2: how many people, you know, It was a bit fuzzy
Speaker 2: on the outside of the vision, and there was this
Speaker 2: little platform and I stepped up and Indigenous people there,
Speaker 2: and this woman who is the elder called Iris sadly
Speaker 2: passed a year or two ago from quite possibly the
Speaker 2: oldest Indigenous you know, group of people survives in the world,
Speaker 2: you know. And she walks up to me in the
Speaker 2: middle of the semicircle, hands me this male swan's white
Speaker 2: feather and says, you know, can you help us? You
Speaker 2: have a voice, can you help us? And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, do I just continue to be a rock
Speaker 2: and roller or do I kind of step up to
Speaker 2: the plate. I mean, you know, the song, which is
Speaker 2: number one, is about humanitarian and environmental issues. But he's
Speaker 2: clincher on this one. And I've told this many times before,
Speaker 2: but every time it still affects me too that Dad
Speaker 2: had told me that at some point in my life.
Speaker 2: And I cannot tell you when or where, but it happened,
Speaker 2: and I thought it was peculiar at the time because
Speaker 2: I thought this is a weird thing to say to me.
Speaker 2: But he said, if something happens to me, the way
Speaker 2: that I'll let you know that I'm going to be
Speaker 2: okay or that everything's going to be okay will be
Speaker 2: in the form of a white feather. So when they elder,
Speaker 2: this woman from the oldest indigenous tribe on the planet
Speaker 2: hands me a white feather, you know, the goose. I
Speaker 2: get goosebumps every time I'm going I'm sorry. Whatever you
Speaker 2: believe in, this is undeniable, absolutely undeniable spiritual connection. And
Speaker 2: so I went, okay, right, that's it, step up, get
Speaker 2: on with it. So I spent ten years with the
Speaker 2: director Kim Kindersley as a dear friend of mine, making
Speaker 2: a documentary about them, called Whale Dreamers. Not only about
Speaker 2: the Moaning Tribe, eighty other tribes, indigenous tribes around the
Speaker 2: world who were suffering the same fate, the same plight
Speaker 2: as the indigenous in Australia and being thrown off their
Speaker 2: land for nuclear testing da da dada onto warring tribes
Speaker 2: lands and ongoing you know, the lands had been stolen
Speaker 2: from them. We're still fighting with them now to get
Speaker 2: their land back, you know, and we're winning at the moment,
Speaker 2: So knock on wood, that continues again. We weren't supported,
Speaker 2: we didn't have backers. It was just a little independent film.
Speaker 2: We won eight International Independent Film Awards, so we did
Speaker 2: quite well. But with the advent of the Internet, I
Speaker 2: decided to put a website together so I could sell
Speaker 2: the film because I said that, you know, if this
Speaker 2: film makes any money in any way, shape or form,
Speaker 2: I wanted to go back to the Morning people, the
Speaker 2: Mirning tribe m I R N I.
Speaker 3: N G mourning, Mourning, urning.
Speaker 2: But the only way I was told that that point
Speaker 2: in time to be able to do that was to
Speaker 2: start a foundation. So henceforth, the White Feather Foundation was
Speaker 2: born purely as a vehicle to get money from the
Speaker 2: sales of the film to the Morning Tribe. Then, over
Speaker 2: the course of time, I'd start getting these emails going, well,
Speaker 2: can you help us? And can you help us? And
Speaker 2: I'm going, well, listen, I'm not really a foundation as such,
Speaker 2: you know. But then I thought, you know, I am
Speaker 2: in a position to try and help. So I started
Speaker 2: looking at things that personally I would like to help
Speaker 2: with that affected me obviously, indigenous cultures around the world.
Speaker 2: That was number one on the list, with you know,
Speaker 2: buying back their land and preserving their land and their
Speaker 2: culture and their heritage.
Speaker 3: And then you.
Speaker 2: Know, there are many many organizations out there that deal
Speaker 2: with clean water, but that's still a necessity. So we
Speaker 2: still you know, and I guess you could say how
Speaker 2: we are. We're a small group. There's only a few
Speaker 2: people in fact, me, you know, to do others. But
Speaker 2: we live on donations by the public. So it's public
Speaker 2: that really help us help them, you know. And I
Speaker 2: guess our position, or at least what I've felt about it,
Speaker 2: is that we're trying to catch the ones who fall
Speaker 2: between the cracks of the big organizations that can't take
Speaker 2: care of everybody. So it's the little people and the
Speaker 2: little problems that happen here, there and everywhere that we
Speaker 2: try and save and help.
Speaker 3: So apart from.
Speaker 2: That, the other elements are health and education for girls.
Speaker 2: And I started a scholarship in my mother's name after
Speaker 2: she passed because I felt it was a wait to
Speaker 2: honor her, you know. So it's the Cynthia Lennon scholarship
Speaker 2: for girls.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm proud of that. We've helped a lot
Speaker 2: of girls go through the college and university to come
Speaker 2: back again and protect their families and their towns and
Speaker 2: their people, yeah, their cultures. So I'm very proud of that.
Speaker 3: Have you done many benefit by performances.
Speaker 2: We did one gala once. It was in Monaco, actually,
Speaker 2: but the stress and the cost of putting it on
Speaker 2: was more than it was worth at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, to be honest with you, and walked away
Speaker 2: exactly exactly. So that's my preference. It's just you know,
Speaker 2: I'll keep shaking hands and trying to get some donations
Speaker 2: brought in, but the whole gala thing, I mean, I
Speaker 2: myself became a little sick and tired of going to
Speaker 2: those kind of things. You know. What happens in my
Speaker 2: circumstance is that with everything that I do, whatever hat
Speaker 2: I'm wearing, a good proportion of what I earn goes
Speaker 2: to the White Feather Foundation. Whether it's from the books,
Speaker 2: whether it's from music, whether it's from the documentaries or
Speaker 2: you name it.
Speaker 1: Now, you lived in places in the United States for
Speaker 1: periods of time, Yeah, New York and La, I would imagine,
Speaker 1: and you were different for years.
Speaker 2: I was in New York in the late eighties and
Speaker 2: I thought I might die here because the party scene
Speaker 2: back then in the late eighties was quite serious, robust.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the Limelight Arena and you know, and everybody
Speaker 2: was out, I mean everybody was on the town every night,
Speaker 2: you know. And then I went out to LA and
Speaker 2: a friend of mine picked me up in an old
Speaker 2: convertible and drove me along Mulholland and I went, ah,
Speaker 2: this is nice. And then of course, you know, most
Speaker 2: bars close up, you know, the last orders at one
Speaker 2: thirty two o'clock, and you think you're safe. No, you're
Speaker 2: not safe, because that's when everybody goes back to everybody
Speaker 2: houses and it's worse than New York and so you know, a.
Speaker 3: Chef that makes dinner everything right there.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, No, it was very I mean I
Speaker 2: did enjoy it. I had one of the best times
Speaker 2: of my life in LA because I became part of
Speaker 2: a brat pack biker crew, you know, with Harley's and
Speaker 2: you know the likes of me and Billie Idol, and
Speaker 2: every sun day, regardless of our condition, we'd be off
Speaker 2: bike riding down the Angelus Crest and oh yeah, but
Speaker 2: it was a fabulous time, an enjoyable time back in
Speaker 2: the day. I had a good probably five six years there,
Speaker 2: and then the seventh and eighth year I became a
Speaker 2: little numb, and that's that's when I ended up back
Speaker 2: in Europe. I actually went back to see a film,
Speaker 2: the film premiere of Backbeat, which is about the Beatles
Speaker 2: early days in Hamburg, and I met a friend of
Speaker 2: a friend who was a line producer, and he said
Speaker 2: to me, you've ever been to Monico before? And I
Speaker 2: said no, And he said do you like the Grand Prix?
Speaker 2: Do you like Grand Prix? I said, I don't really
Speaker 2: care one way or the other. He said, well, what
Speaker 2: are you doing this weekend? I said, well, going back
Speaker 2: to La to be numb. Why he said, well, listen,
Speaker 2: you know I've got a spare room apartment down in Monaco.
Speaker 2: I know everybody'd been living there for years. Why don't
Speaker 2: you come down. I'll take care of you. Daddy, Daddy da.
Speaker 2: So we go down and I find myself on the
Speaker 2: very famous Rascass Corner, which is where they come shooting
Speaker 2: down after the tunnel coming at you at about one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty miles an hour while you're eating a
Speaker 2: shrimp cocktail and all you've got is chicken wire fencing
Speaker 2: between you and the car, and I'm going, this is great,
Speaker 2: you know. So I spent the summer there and again
Speaker 2: it was one of those moments. I had one of
Speaker 2: the best times of my life. And I just I
Speaker 2: had a little bungalow up on Mulholland and Cold Water,
Speaker 2: and I had a caretaker, and I just said, pack
Speaker 2: up the house, I'm not coming back. And I just
Speaker 2: lived in what I call a Miami vice apartment in Monaco,
Speaker 2: which was just this bare room that was kind of white,
Speaker 2: marble mirrors, yeah, yeah, yeah, with a little TV on
Speaker 2: a chest, a trunk, a couch from the floor, in habitat,
Speaker 2: a mattress on the floor. And I lived like that
Speaker 2: for a couple of years until I figured out what
Speaker 2: I was doing. Again, and you're still there, I'm actually well,
Speaker 2: the thing was, I didn't become a resident at that point,
Speaker 2: so I do now. I became a resident. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I work with Prince Albert and his foundation with White
Speaker 2: Feather as well. We've were looking at a few projects.
Speaker 2: So but yeah, I find it. I just it's a listener.
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful location. Italy's twenty minutes away, you know,
Speaker 2: and I love Italy because of my Italian stepfather, Roberto Bassanini.
Speaker 2: And you know, France is beautiful too, Spain's just down
Speaker 2: the road for me. Location, location, location, It's just And
Speaker 2: I'm a biker now still, So whether it's in a convertible,
Speaker 2: little mini or Catholic, is that so?
Speaker 3: Yeah? You come back?
Speaker 2: So yeah, when I have time, I get on the
Speaker 2: bike and I go and that countryside throughout Europe is
Speaker 2: just jaw dropping and I, you know, forever in love
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 3: Julian Lennon.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be
Speaker 1: sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back.
Speaker 1: The Story of the Real Life Princess on the cover
Speaker 1: of Julian Lennon's new photography book, Life's Fragile Moments. I'm
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Over
Speaker 1: the past two decades, Julian Lennon has amassed and impressive
Speaker 1: portfolio of work behind the camera, looking through his recent
Speaker 1: book of photography. I was so moved by the images
Speaker 1: he captured. I was curious about when he first began
Speaker 1: pursuing photography and what inspired him to start taking it
Speaker 1: seriously as an art form.
Speaker 2: When I actually came to see Dad when I was
Speaker 2: about eleven again and maybe even earlier than that, he
Speaker 2: had this camera called the Polaroid ssex seventy lamp camera,
Speaker 2: the ones that flipped up, folded, and I love those.
Speaker 2: I was just fascinated, more so because of the instant
Speaker 2: gratification of having the pictures come alive right in front
Speaker 2: of you like it is now. Yeah. So I tried
Speaker 2: being a real photographer with film, but I made mistakes
Speaker 2: all the time and screwed the film bah blah blah.
Speaker 2: So I kind of gave it a rest until digital
Speaker 2: photography really came into play. And then when it did,
Speaker 2: I vowed to myself. I said, well, well I would
Speaker 2: like to do and I'm self taught all the way
Speaker 2: down the line music, photography, whatever, documentaries, you know, children's books.
Speaker 2: You know, I just want to do the best that
Speaker 2: I can do, and so I challenged myself to try
Speaker 2: to make the digital photography as good as film photography.
Speaker 2: And what happened was I did an exhibition in Amsterdam
Speaker 2: ten years ago maybe where it was all brit pop
Speaker 2: kind of thing. Couple of photographers and musicians doing this exhibition,
Speaker 2: and I was cornered by this elderly American photography critic.
Speaker 2: And I'm quite shy and quite reserved most of the time,
Speaker 2: and I can be quite shut off, and she had
Speaker 2: me in the corner I couldn't get out and yes, okay,
Speaker 2: and I was trying to be as polite as possible.
Speaker 2: And then at the very end of it, she said,
Speaker 2: so tell me do you shoot with film or is
Speaker 2: it digital? I went, you tell me and that was it.
Speaker 2: That's when I went, all right, I'm doing a good job.
Speaker 2: And I think I'm doing a good job from and
Speaker 2: that's when I just went, yeah, all right. But how
Speaker 2: a lot of this came about was when I went
Speaker 2: on journeys on behalf of the White Feather Foundation to
Speaker 2: Ethiopia with a charity, Water, Scott Harrison Charity Water, who
Speaker 2: were an incredible organization. I think they provided more fresh
Speaker 2: water to people worldwide than any other. He invited me
Speaker 2: to go along to Ethiopia and I it was my
Speaker 2: first trip to Africa, and it was mind blowing, and
Speaker 2: so I thought, you know, take my camera, you know,
Speaker 2: just purely as the point of cataloging and making note
Speaker 2: of the moments and times I was going through, not
Speaker 2: as a professional photographer by any means. That same trip,
Speaker 2: I'd gone to Kenya to schools and health clinics and
Speaker 2: a few other things like that. That's where a lot
Speaker 2: of the White Feather stuff was born, out of visiting
Speaker 2: these places trying to help these plans. That's very importantiation, right, yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: absolutely absolutely. So anyway, I started taking a lot of
Speaker 2: pictures of all of that stuff, and then when I
Speaker 2: had a few moments back home, I put him on
Speaker 2: a big screen and I'd start looking at stuff and go, well,
Speaker 2: this is really quite beautiful or quite poignant, or quite
Speaker 2: you know, deep and dark, and you know, maybe people
Speaker 2: should see some of this stuff, you know, or even
Speaker 2: the happiest stuff, or just the landscapes.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: And so I started just editing that kind of stuff
Speaker 2: and putting it all together into these little collections, and
Speaker 2: so that's how that kind of began. But on the
Speaker 2: other side, there's another side to it too, which is
Speaker 2: when I used to go on the road and do
Speaker 2: world tours and all that, you know, back in the
Speaker 2: day on TWA and the big old Boeing seven for seven,
Speaker 2: so you know, you used to we're talking forty years ago. Whenever,
Speaker 2: you know, they'd have a projector of one film if
Speaker 2: you were lucky, and then you have a bite to
Speaker 2: eat and go to sleep on these long hauls flights,
Speaker 2: and I could never go to sleep, so I'd always
Speaker 2: be staring out the window. And I just became fascinated
Speaker 2: with clouds. I mean, the first my first exhibition was
Speaker 2: initially just going to be because I fell in love
Speaker 2: with them. I fell in love with the shape, the color,
Speaker 2: their form, sunsets, sunrise, and it became a moment where
Speaker 2: I'd look out the window and I'd go I'd either
Speaker 2: think of nothing at all, just empty my mind and
Speaker 2: just be in the moment, or I think about everything,
Speaker 2: and I just noticed that the clouds only lasted a moment,
Speaker 2: or the light or the shape only lasted a moment.
Speaker 2: So it was all fleeting, really fleeting, And so I
Speaker 2: started relating that to my life and what was going
Speaker 2: on and everything else. And so that's what became important
Speaker 2: about photography for me is just trying to catch those
Speaker 2: moments that are not set up, that are not lit properly,
Speaker 2: that are not you know, and there you go.
Speaker 1: I love these pictures, thank you. And I'm a photography freak.
Speaker 1: I love books of photographs, but a lot.
Speaker 2: O well, I certainly take that very kindly, sir. That's
Speaker 2: Charlene Whitstock, who became Princess Charlene of Monarica. I was
Speaker 2: ten minutes before she was getting married. There's a whole
Speaker 2: story behind that.
Speaker 3: Tell me, okay, all right.
Speaker 2: So mutual friend calls me up the day before the
Speaker 2: wedding and goes, listen, Charlie likes your photographs. I'd met
Speaker 2: her once or twice and she just liked what I did,
Speaker 2: she said, He said, she wants you to come and
Speaker 2: shoot just before the you know, behind the scenes, before
Speaker 2: she gets married tomorrow.
Speaker 3: I'll go.
Speaker 2: Really not my kind of thing. Really, I didn't really
Speaker 2: know what I was in for. So I say, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, I'll do it. I'll break through the fear.
Speaker 3: Go.
Speaker 2: So there's about three or four security checkpoints to get in.
Speaker 2: That was a nightmare to start with. Then finally get
Speaker 2: to the hotel where she is. She's got all her
Speaker 2: friends dancing around like lunatics.
Speaker 3: Backpack.
Speaker 2: I arrive at the hotel before I see them, and
Speaker 2: I'm in the lobby just there with my little backpack.
Speaker 2: And then walks you know, Patrick to my Shelly a
Speaker 2: with the hotel trolley's with equipment after equipment. I'm going,
Speaker 2: I'm screwed. How am I going to even anyway?
Speaker 3: So I go in.
Speaker 2: I'm the only one allowed in the inner sanctum, which
Speaker 2: is great. So I'm in a room probably about the
Speaker 2: sides of the studio. She's in front of the mirror.
Speaker 2: You got the hairdresser, the hairdresser's assistance, the assistant's assistants,
Speaker 2: the makeup, twenty people in a tiny little room and
Speaker 2: she's just looking forward, numb, staring into the mirror and
Speaker 2: she's going, jewels. I don't know if I can do this.
Speaker 2: And I'm going, what are you talking about? And she said, no,
Speaker 2: I can't do these photographs. So I don't think. I
Speaker 2: said I'm here. I said, listen, I'm really. This is
Speaker 2: a this is historic, this is a You're going to
Speaker 2: become a princess for me too. This is a magical
Speaker 2: moment to capture I said, listen, I don't know what
Speaker 2: I'm going to get, not a bloody clue. But at
Speaker 2: least i'll be a fly on the wall. I'll be
Speaker 2: out of everybody's way. We've only got eight minutes left, literally,
Speaker 2: and so I shoot as much as I can. I
Speaker 2: don't even know what I'm getting not getting. You know nothing,
Speaker 2: I don't have a clue. I get a message from
Speaker 2: Vogue dot com. They want a picture from de Machellier,
Speaker 2: they want a picture from me to go online. Immediately
Speaker 2: after she's where did? And so I go back to
Speaker 2: my place, put all the pictures up on a screen,
Speaker 2: and I look at them and I go.
Speaker 3: I've got nothing. I've got nothing.
Speaker 2: This looks like crap.
Speaker 3: It looks like shit.
Speaker 2: The one thing Vogue said, we want to see her smiling.
Speaker 2: I had two pictures with her smiling. One of them
Speaker 2: was the one you pointed out. But the one thing
Speaker 2: that she said to me before the shooting was that,
Speaker 2: by the way, whatever you do, do not have a
Speaker 2: picture of me with a cigarette or alcohol in my hand.
Speaker 2: I'm going and I find that one picture that you
Speaker 2: pointed out, and I'm going, oh, here we go.
Speaker 3: I'm screwed.
Speaker 2: Now I'm not a photo show kind of guy, but
Speaker 2: I managed to remove the cigarette, and I'm looking at
Speaker 2: the picture, going, well, how am I going to deal
Speaker 2: with the with the champagne? And I think, okay. With
Speaker 2: every collection I do, it has its own version of
Speaker 2: a desaturation. So it's never black and white. As you know,
Speaker 2: people say that's black and white. No it's not. It's
Speaker 2: a level of desaturation and jews and I work and tones.
Speaker 3: You can see the gold.
Speaker 2: So first I convert the picture to black desaturated too,
Speaker 2: a close to black and white, and then I crop
Speaker 2: it a little differently, and I look at it and
Speaker 2: I go, oh, my god, Princess Grace. You know, the thirties, forties,
Speaker 2: fifties black and white, classic high contrast, edited in such
Speaker 2: a way like you know, like a Time magazine or
Speaker 2: Life magazine, you know, photo shoot. And so I began
Speaker 2: to crop all of the pictures like that, and that
Speaker 2: was my saving grace. It changed everything. And now that
Speaker 2: i'm they're probably some of my most faith pictures of
Speaker 2: anybody that I've shot. And the fact that she let
Speaker 2: me have the cover of her, with that last glimpse
Speaker 2: of her looking at herself before the wedding on the
Speaker 2: front of the of the book, you know, forever thankful
Speaker 2: for that. One of the really important things that happened
Speaker 2: to me in my relationship with photography and the images
Speaker 2: was that I would I would have people write to me,
Speaker 2: which I really didn't consider or think about earlier at all.
Speaker 2: Was that you'd have people that couldn't financially afford to
Speaker 2: travel the world or go anywhere, couldn't or were disabled
Speaker 2: and couldn't travel the world or go anywhere. And what
Speaker 2: they had all said to me is that you bring
Speaker 2: these stories to us, You bring the truth, You bring
Speaker 2: life to us of cultures that we would never necessarily
Speaker 2: know anything about. You do it in such a way,
Speaker 2: without an agenda, without just laying it on, just putting
Speaker 2: it in front and showing you what is, what exists.
Speaker 1: Take people to the world that they can't see.
Speaker 2: And I tried to do that in music as well.
Speaker 2: I tried to do the same thing, but photography really
Speaker 2: does allow me to do that. I have empathy for
Speaker 2: people on the other side of the world that you'll
Speaker 2: never ever meet, but you'll at least have some understanding
Speaker 2: of what their life is and what they went through
Speaker 2: or are still going.
Speaker 1: Through my thanks to musician, photographer, and philanthropist Julian Lennon.
Speaker 1: You can learn more about his humanitarian work at Whitefeatherfoundation
Speaker 1: dot com. His photography book Life's Fragile Moments is now
Speaker 1: available for purchase, and his most recent album, Jude, is
Speaker 1: streaming on Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes, Amazon and YouTube. This
Speaker 1: episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City.
Speaker 1: Were produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin.
Speaker 1: Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is
Speaker 1: Danielle Gingrich. Here's the Thing, as brought to you by
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio