1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, welcome to episode nine of Cardinal Territory. My 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: name's Katie who. I'm your host, and I am so 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: excited to have my very dear friend and very special guest, 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Chip Carrey, the voice of the Saint Louis Cardinals, here today. Chip, 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: how are you? Are you excited to be back in 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: Saint Louis. 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: Great to be back at baseball heaven, Katie, great to 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: see you. The winter warm up is upon us, and 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: I think we're all ready for some warmer weather, so 10 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: hopefully all of those things will be happening here in 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: the next forty eight hours. 12 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: Yes, Florida man, California girl. This is maybe the worst combination. 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: It was not good getting off the plane today. I 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: can tell you. 15 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: That no, I bought an ice craper for the first 16 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: time in my life, So yeah, that's ever. Well. I'm 17 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: thrilled to have you here. You're a very popular person, 18 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: highly recommended. And I'm not just saying that because you 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: agree to do this for free. I'm saying that because. 20 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,319 Speaker 2: Well, my name pronounced in she is cheap, so that 21 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: makes it easy for everybody. But I'm glad to be 22 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: with you. We'll have some fun, we'll talk a little 23 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 2: baseball and hopefully get people fired up for the season ahead. 24 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it. First of all, how have you, Ben? 25 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: How has your off season? Ben? It's been a quick 26 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: exit since that last Cardinals Giants game back at the 27 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: end of September. 28 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been busy. As you know, the ingress and 29 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: egress with family life is the hardest part of the job, 30 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 2: right You leave for six months and then you parachute 31 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: back in and you find out just how useless you 32 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: really are, except when you get the honeydew list. It's 33 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: as tall as the Gateway arch. But got that taking 34 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: care of My daughter got engaged, so that's exciting. She's 35 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 2: getting married next November. And she survived the wildfires in 36 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, so that's been kind of scary the last 37 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: couple of weeks. But all in all, it's been a 38 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: relatively normal off season for the Carry clan. And I 39 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: think we're getting to that point in the season where 40 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: the family saying, when's Oprey Day? Isn't it time for 41 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: you to go back to work? And I think all 42 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: of us once a calendar gives mid January, we all 43 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: start to feel the same way. And the baseball biz. 44 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: I say that a lot, and my parents also, I think, 45 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: had that same feeling around like my third week of 46 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: my home for the holidays, that were like, are you 47 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: gonna leave event eventually? But why because my mom, well 48 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: she's the best, best cook, right, I was just super comfortable. 49 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: Why would I leave? 50 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, you know, my kids are kind of 51 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 2: the same way. There's no space on the couch, there's 52 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 2: no space in the refrigerator. The laundry is piled up, 53 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: you know, to mountainous heights. The yard always needs to 54 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 2: get cut, and guess we gets to do it, dear 55 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: old mom and dad. So that part of it's always 56 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: fun dealing with the generation zeniers that are in our life. 57 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, not like I can relate at all 58 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: that you say that. When we get to mid January, 59 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: I usually feel that that that itch, right, like, Okay, 60 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: it's almost baseball season, and the event that gets me 61 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: there is winter warm up. And I was joking with 62 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: Trevor Rosenthal at our last show that this is like 63 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: the event of the off season because there really hasn't 64 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: been anything else going on. But I do get excited 65 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: for winter warm up. There it's you know, we're still 66 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: less less than a month now from spring training, but 67 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: we're getting closer, and to me, this is the unofficial 68 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: start to this twenty twenty five season. It's really nice 69 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: to talk to players, see what they've been up to 70 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: for the last three months, see where the organization stands. 71 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: Usually we have things like moves to talk about. Not 72 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: this year, but I still think it'll be fun. Nonetheless, 73 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: and you are in Saint Louis. We're recording Thursday for 74 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: our Friday episode. You're here now because you and your 75 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: partner in crime, Brad Thompson, are going on a caravan trip. 76 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: Correct we are. 77 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: We leave tomorrow morning, our Friday morning, I should say, 78 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: for our trip down to Memphis. Brad Thompson and I 79 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: will be on the bus to Memphis with let me 80 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: think about this, Zach Thompson, Jordan Walker, and the rest 81 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: escapes me. But I'll figure that out in time for 82 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: the bus ride at eight o'clock. And I'll probably forget 83 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: their names at some point while we're on the bus trip. 84 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: But anytime you can spend time with Brad's blast as 85 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: you know, and I think you hit it on the head. 86 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: K The winner warm up is so much fun because 87 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: you're running too. The fans who are so passionate and 88 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: care so much about what the Cardinals do or don't do. 89 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: I mean, that's a life blow to the franchise obviously, 90 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: people that really care about it the same way that 91 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: we do, and we are in this at least I am. 92 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 2: It's a people industry, right. You care about the people 93 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: you spend six months with, or so spend six months 94 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: watching do their thing on the baseball field and behind 95 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: the scenes, and get a chance to catch up with 96 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: them after being away and separating from your baseball family. 97 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: It is, as you said, the start of a new year. 98 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: There's hope, there's optimism. Everybody's undefeated and everybody looks forward 99 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: to seeing what's going to unfold. And Jupiter on February tenth, is. 100 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: There hope and optimism. No, you are the ray of 101 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: sunshine and this group for sure. That's part of the 102 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: reason why I like to talk to you is because 103 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: you keep me sane. You let me see that there 104 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: is another side to all of this, and hopefully we'll 105 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: get to see that. My favorite thing about Winter Warm 106 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: Up Weekend is just the amount of interviews that we 107 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: do and in the moment, because we're doing like probably 108 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: close to forty forty five. You're just trying to get 109 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: through them and make sure that you know you're staying 110 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: up to do on your deadlines, that your stories are written. 111 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: But I like to go back and I like to 112 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: listen to a bunch of them, And there are a 113 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: ton of players that I'm excited to hear from just 114 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: because I think they will be so prominent for next 115 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: year's team. And the big thing that we've talked about 116 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: a lot for the twenty twenty five Cardinals is their 117 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: youth movement. Now as we sit here on January sixteenth, 118 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: recording this episode, the Cardinals have done a lot of 119 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: advertising about their youth movement and reinvesting in player development 120 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: on the minor league side. They have done a great 121 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: job in that Heim Bloom, that's been his project, that's 122 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: his baby, right. Cardinals have four new player directors in 123 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: their player development system. They are completely revamping that program. 124 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: It's been a long time coming. Lots of stuff on 125 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: the Athletic about it. If you're unfamiliar with maybe how 126 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: far the Cardinals have fallen in player development, and that's 127 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: a little concerning when you think about their background and history. 128 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: Is being like a leader in this in this part 129 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: of the game. When it gets to the major league side, however, 130 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: not a lot of movement there. If the Cardinals started 131 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: the season today, they would have a starting lineup very 132 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: similar to last year's, both position playing wise and in 133 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: the rotation. The only path, I think where there's true 134 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: room to see some of these younger guys is in 135 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: the bullpen. So ask you this, how can the Cardinals 136 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: make this youth movement work? If indeed Nolan Arnado is 137 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: here for pitches and catchers, you already know Wilson Contreras 138 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: is at first base, and you have again this, if 139 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: this roster does not change at all, four major league 140 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: veterans in your rotation, how can how can the Cardinals 141 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: get creative? 142 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that's that's the sixty four million or 143 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: sixty seven million dollar question. Right? How does it work? 144 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 2: What it works best if the Cardinals can find a 145 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: trade partner with Nolan Aaron, because that clears your log 146 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: jam on the infield, It allows you to put guys 147 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: in position that they're used to playing, and it frees 148 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: up playing time for the Donovans, the Jcs and the 149 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: newt Bars. Right if Nolan's still here, Well, then Nolan 150 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: Goren probably is going to be back at second base. Well, 151 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: if he's at second base, what do you do with 152 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: s JC, what do you do with Donovan? Well, if 153 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: Donovan's then left, that means Nutbar goes to center, where 154 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: he's better off as a corner out theater. You know 155 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: Walker is going to play right, and you've got Contraras 156 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: at first base. We'll probably play there with with Alec Burlison. 157 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: So look, the lynchpin move for the Cardinals is what 158 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 2: can they do if anything with Nolan Arenado. I no 159 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: Mo has tried. I know he thought he had to 160 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: deal with Houston that went by the boards. But as 161 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: of now, if I were to grade what Saint Louis 162 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: has done at the major league level, I'd give him 163 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: an incomplete what most said he wanted to accomplish, he 164 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: has not been able to yet. But if he is 165 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: able to do that, I think the runway that they 166 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: keep talking about giving these guys Katie is going to 167 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: be something very important. You know, you've been around these guys. 168 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: If you go for FOURIG and you're in your first 169 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: or second year in the major league, you wonder am 170 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: I going to be back in the lineup tomorrow or 171 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: am I one phone call away or one zero for 172 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: four from going back to double triple. And I think 173 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: knowing for these guys that they're going to be able 174 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: to play extended game reps is going to help their 175 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: performance on the field. I think it's going to help 176 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: them psychologically, and I really think it's going to be instrumentally, 177 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: hugely important, I should say, for their professional growth as 178 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: major league players. Cardinals are going to find out if 179 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: they think what they have is what they have and 180 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 2: if the players are well, then we're going to see 181 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: the basis for the next great Cardinal teams. If they're not, 182 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: they're going to know that too. And either way, you 183 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: have concrete answers instead of a great deal of unknowns, 184 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: which serves nobody well. 185 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: I think I agree, And I think that's why if 186 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: I'm a Cardinals fan or just looking at this team 187 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: from the outside perspective, I'm a little antsy because right 188 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: now there are so many unknowns and there's really no 189 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: way to know if these problems are going to be solved. Because, 190 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: like you said, I like how you described the Ronado 191 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: trade or no trade is the Linchpin here like, are 192 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: the Cardinals preparing for us snario in which he returns? Yes, 193 00:08:58,400 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: of course at this point you have to be prepared for. 194 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: That's in no way saying that he will. But at 195 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: January sixteenth, virtually no traction since the ill fated Astros 196 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: trade attempt. This is a reality that John Mozelok and 197 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: his crew will be considering. And mo has been very 198 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: candid in what the plan for twenty twenty five is, 199 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: and he's used the word runway so many times because 200 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: that's what he wants to give to these guys. And 201 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: I love the point that you make about players knowing 202 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: that they have guaranteed playing time regardless of individual results 203 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: or team results. That's so important when you think of 204 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: a guy like Nolan Morman or Jordan Walker. And I 205 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: think we've talked about this before. These are guys that 206 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: have come up, struggled and have had to be sent 207 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: down because the Cardinals are trying to contend and trying 208 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: to keep a top the Nlcentral this year. What the 209 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: Cardinals are saying is it's okay if they struggle, We're 210 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: going to throw them in there every day and they're 211 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: going to get the chance to work through it so 212 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: we know what kind of players they are. That's going 213 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: to really help I think overall confidence. Where you kind 214 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: of draw into question on if that can happen or 215 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: not is if there's enough playing time to go around. 216 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: We know the guys that are locks for playing time. 217 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: Jordan Walker is going to start in my field almost 218 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: every day. Nolan Gorman MO has said it before. Five 219 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: hundred to six hundred plaint appearances. That's the goal they'd like. 220 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: If Lars Newpark can stay healthy, that's a big concern. 221 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: He's gonna be there every day. Can he play center field? 222 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: I know in years past there's been I don't want 223 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: to say the Cardinals don't want him to play center field. 224 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: They're certainly comfortable doing that if they need to. But 225 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: he just profiles much stronger as a corner outfielder. Is 226 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: this the year that they try to see if he 227 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: can learn to play center on the fly. Yes. They 228 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: have Mike Sianni, who I think is an elite defender. 229 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: You have Victor Scott, a very exciting prospect. So how 230 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: do you balance that playing time? If Nolan Arnott is 231 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: at third base and Nolan Gorman's playing second Brendan Donovan 232 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: is still a super utility, which is helpful, but it 233 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: doesn't really alleviate the playing time for Alec Burlison or 234 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: Thomas Jace. You go down the list and that's not 235 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: even getting into the pitching side. So I don't know 236 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: if the Cardinals can can pull off their self proclaimed 237 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: youth movement right now. The current notation Sonny Gray, Miles Michaelis, 238 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: Eric Betty, Stephen Matts, Andre Polante. Okay, so there's one 239 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: guy out of five that is under thirty and someone 240 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: that you can maybe plan for years and years to 241 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: come and some of these issues problems if you will 242 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: come from contracts. Right, the Cardinals gave Sonny Gray no 243 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: trade clause. They gave Wilson contrasts and no trade clause. 244 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: They did not give Nolan Arnatto one. They inherited one. 245 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: But these are still things they have to work around. 246 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: Miles michaelis no trade clause. Well, I think it's great 247 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: that both Gray and Contrarasts expressed their preference to stay. 248 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: I think that does a lot for a fan base, 249 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: and I think it puts some belief in the young 250 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: guys that these two guys, which are so accomplished in 251 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: their individual careers want to be a part of this 252 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: next movement. I think that's great. It's still to me 253 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: makes me wonder how the Cardinals can promote their internal pitching, 254 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: their young pitching, because they do have a lot of 255 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: exciting guys. It just seems like no place to put 256 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: them except the bullpen, and I don't know if that's 257 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: a route still want to keep going down. You've seen it, yeah, and. 258 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: I think a lot of it depends on, as you said, 259 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: the Aren Auto deals a lynch bit. If you can't 260 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: move him, well, then maybe you move guys that have 261 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: big salaries in your starting rotation to give opportunities to 262 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: the Michael McGreevey's, the Gordon brissepos, maybe Queen Matthews, tink 263 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 2: Kents to co Robi, Sam Roversa and guys like that 264 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: that are already here and in the organizations. That's a 265 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,599 Speaker 2: conversation between you and Dusty. I know you speak to 266 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 2: him a lot about the pitching plans and what the 267 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: Cardinals want to try to do. But I think the 268 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: optimistic side of me says the following about the young guys. 269 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: I think this group as a whole is going to 270 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 2: be extremely motivated to prove the naysayers wrong that the 271 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: bad years that some of those guys had last year 272 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: or an aborration that the upward trajectory of their career 273 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: is ready to start with consistent playing time. I really 274 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: think that they're going to be motivated to be the 275 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: next group that gets the Cardinals into the playoffs, that 276 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: wins playoffs series. It becomes cornerstone pieces here. The obligation 277 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: for the veterans and the pitching staff is, well, what 278 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 2: Ken Sonny Gray, what Ken Miles Michaelas teach, the Quinn 279 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 2: Matthews as the tin Kenses and the Michael mcgreevies who 280 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: are here or on their way. That's their job too, 281 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: not just going out and pitching every fifth day. And 282 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: those are guys that have had major leagu's success. And 283 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 2: I think there are a couple of bounce back candidates. 284 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: Do you think Miles Michaelis wants to try to five 285 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 2: Era out there again for the Cardinals in the last 286 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 2: year of his deal. No, you talked to Miles a lot. 287 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: I can't think of a guy that works harder, that's 288 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: more motivated to be great than he may not be. 289 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 2: But I don't think there's any question in my mind 290 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: that he, as he said so nicely the other day, 291 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: he doesn't want to be a guy that's a good 292 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: riddance player when his contract ends. He wants to leave 293 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 2: with a positive memory burnished in the minds of Cardinal fans. 294 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: And this guy pitched hard, he pitched his heart out, 295 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 2: and he pitched well at times for Saint Louis. And 296 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 2: we're really proud of the contributions that he made here. 297 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 2: And I think that's going to be a very big, 298 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: in my opinion, from the outside looking and motivating factor 299 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: for not just the old guys, but the young guys 300 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: on this team this year. 301 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: Agreed. I really like that story done by Derek Gold. 302 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: In the Saint Louis Post dispatch, Miles Michaeliss was very 303 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: candid and he said this line stock out to me 304 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: or stood out to me. It was he owes the 305 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: fans of Saint Louis better baseball, and that kind of 306 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: mentality when you're a young player, very multiple is so important. 307 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: Sonny Gray really embraces that kind of leadership job, a 308 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: leadership role, I should say. He likes being the guy 309 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: that young kids come to. And you may not think 310 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: that because Sonny is such a he's a pitcher, right, 311 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: He's a picture a very very serious competitor, very quirky 312 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: about the way that he does things, but it works 313 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: for him. He really likes being a guy that someone 314 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: can lean on, and that's going to be part of 315 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: his job. Not only is it going to be his 316 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: job to lead the rotation performance on the field, he's 317 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: also going to be leading the next form, the next 318 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: rotation off the field as well. And there are some 319 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: exciting guys. I really liked what we saw to Mike 320 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: McGreevey came up three starts. He was really good. And 321 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: I know, small sample size, I understand, and the Cardinals 322 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: didn't really have much to lose in September at that point, 323 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: but not to McGreevy. McGreevy I thought was really impressive. 324 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: The way he carried himself, the way that he prepared, 325 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: and also how he pitched. There's no fear in that guy. 326 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: And when you're a guy that's coming up and you 327 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: know that that end of the twenty twenty four season 328 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: was probably an early audition for a potential rotation spot 329 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: come twenty twenty five, there could be some nerves there. 330 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: You could be in your head not McGreevy. You just 331 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: went out there and pitched like he's been doing his 332 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: whole life, and I thought that was exciting. We've talked 333 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: about Polonte a lot on the show, obviously, someone that 334 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: we're going to see. What I don't want is I 335 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: would hate for the Cardinals to have all of these young, 336 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: impressionable starting pitching caliber pitchers and force them into the 337 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: bullpen just to get them experience. Because as we've seen, 338 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: let's go down the list, Polante, Matthew Liberatore, Kyle or not. 339 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: Who am I thinking of? Zach Thompson. I don't know 340 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: why I was going to say Kyle Gibson, he did not. 341 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: It just you go down the list of prominent starting 342 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: pitching prospects that have come up as relievers and have 343 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: been kind of bounced around. And I understand it's the 344 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: big leagues. When you get an assignment, you take it 345 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: and you run with it. But I think it has 346 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: really stalled some of the development, especially for a guy 347 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: like Zach Thompson, who a former first round pick, has 348 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: not really yet been able to figure it out. Matthew 349 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: Libertor has been very candid about how tough that experience 350 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: was Polonte as well. I would hate for like the 351 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: next wave of guys to come up and some of 352 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: them might turn into really good believers like Libby did. 353 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: But let's not pretend like that was a like, you know, 354 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: done deal. That was a lot of trial and error 355 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of gripe that Libby had to figure 356 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: out in real time. So I would really hope that 357 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: the Cardinals maybe straight from that approach and see what 358 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: happens when you develop starting pitching prospects as starting pitchers. 359 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: But again, it's the big leagues, so you take the 360 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: opportunity when you get it. 361 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think for the Cardinals to get where 362 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: they want to go, Katie, I think we've seen it 363 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 2: all around baseball, right, how do you win? If you pitch, 364 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 2: you have a chance to win. If you don't, you don't. 365 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: It's really simple. I think we tend to over complicate 366 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: a pretty simple game. And the Cardinals have really struggled 367 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 2: to develop homegrown, dominant starting pitching for a long long 368 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 2: time and that's got to change. And I think they 369 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 2: feel like they have some guys in the pipeline that 370 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: have a chance to come up and be more than 371 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: serviceable major league starting pitchers. And look, we can debate 372 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: till the cows come home about the importance of the 373 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: starting pitcher. Right, just give me five, give me six innings, 374 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: get out of the game. Just don't lose the game. 375 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: Give me a chance to win it with an overpowering bullpen. 376 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: I think the Cardinals have some of those pieces in 377 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 2: place that can do that. But when you think about 378 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: the growth that Andre Polante experienced last year, use that 379 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 2: as a template for all of the young players, position players, 380 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 2: pitchers alike. What the Cardinals could accomplish. Look at Alec 381 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: Berlason in the playing time he got. Yes, he faded 382 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: in the second half of the season, but look at 383 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: what he did with his four hundred plus at bats. 384 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: He was arguably the Cardinals' best hitter for two and 385 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: a half months last year. If that can translate to 386 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: other guys on this pitching staff, the Ryan Fernandez is 387 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: who will be on the caravan with me? Oh yeah, 388 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: I think the Cardinals have a chance to have a 389 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 2: very fun and exciting year. Look, as fans, we all 390 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 2: get terrified about the unknown. What's gonna happen? We don't know. Well, 391 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: that's why you play number one, But number two that's 392 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: the excitement of it. Right when you see a young 393 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: guy come in that you don't know what he's capable of, 394 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: go out and do well, then all of a sudden, 395 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: your perspective on him and the entire team changes. Right, 396 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 2: Wait a minute. These guys are pretty fun, they're exciting 397 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 2: to watch. They're not going to win every game, but 398 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: they play hard, they represent the front of the uniform great, 399 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: they represent our city great, and they care. And I 400 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 2: think that's a player that anybody and a team like 401 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: that can and will get behind. And so my message 402 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: to the fans would be very simply, I don't know 403 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 2: what's going to happen in twenty twenty five. I don't 404 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 2: know if this refresh is going to bear fruit quickly 405 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: or slowly. I know it will at some point, but 406 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: come grow along with us, Come watch these guys, come 407 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: support them, because there's a pretty good chance that these 408 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 2: guys are going to have a breakout year. And as 409 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: I said before, nobody expects them to do it. And 410 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: when that happens, when you're good and nobody expects you 411 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 2: to be those are the most magical years that nobody 412 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: ever ever forgets. 413 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: It's a great point and I think to your point 414 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: here that Cardinals fans will show up if you have 415 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: the group of the future. This is a very loyal 416 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: fan base. I mean, they're they're not afraid to voice 417 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: their opinion, nor should they. They are absolutely instrumental to 418 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: the city of Saint Louis, not just Cardinals baseball. And 419 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: I think where the fan frustration is is there's not 420 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity yet to see that new era 421 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: of baseball. It seems it seems very similar the roster 422 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: to last year and Cardinals. You know, do they really 423 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: want to go out there and see a bunch of 424 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: guys playing out the end of their contracts and are 425 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: delaying new talents. I mean you think of like what 426 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: a guy like Ting Hens or Quinn Matthews can do 427 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: if he comes out they either of them come out 428 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: there and perform, Well, you think fans are going to 429 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: get behind that. Look how quickly they got behind Mason Wynn. 430 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: They're still supporting Jordan Walker. They love themselves. Malc Gurlison, like, 431 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: if you give this fan base something to invest in, 432 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: they will. I think the frustration right now is they 433 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: just feel like there hasn't been a lot of change yet. 434 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: And all of this. You know, one text, I could 435 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: get one text, one call right now, a move has 436 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: been made, it hasn't, and it would change this entire conversation. 437 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: But I think fans are so frustrated by the organization 438 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: staying somewhat stagnant and rolling out the same roster, the 439 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: same plan for another year. That's what's frustrating. I think 440 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: fans want to see that next era. You think, like 441 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: developing starting pitching is so important, especially considering the astronomical 442 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: prices of the starting pitching market, which we know the 443 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: Cardinals are not really going to be invested in. That's 444 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: just what they' that's what history tells us. So if 445 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: you're a Cardinals fan, you're paying attention to the game, 446 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you see tink Hens come 447 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: out makers major league debut next year in twenty five 448 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: and he shoves, or you see McGreevy figure it out, 449 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: or Polante figure it out. All of a sudden you 450 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: start to buy in, like, oh, is this the next 451 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: Cardinals pitcher? Like they don't have to go out and 452 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: find one on the market. Last year the Cardinals rotation 453 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: five free agent starters or trades like these are all 454 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: they that had to go get that's not sustainable, right, 455 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: So that's what I think fans are looking for. They're 456 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: looking for the opportunity to see the next wave of baseball, 457 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: and as we stand today, it doesn't look like it's 458 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: a necessarily a seamless fit. 459 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I think to be fair, you know, 460 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 2: we all talk about the farm system and developing our players. Right, 461 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: if you think about it, look at it pretty fairly. 462 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: I think you'd have to say that all the Cardinals 463 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 2: youngsters are already here, and maybe their ETA was was 464 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: pushed forward a year or maybe two years sooner than 465 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 2: it should have been out of necessity, right, Herrera and 466 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: PAHs homegrown guys, uh s Jac they acquired in trade 467 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 2: down of a homegrown guy, Mason Wynn, homegrown guy, newtbar 468 00:21:54,440 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: homegrown guy, Victor Scott, Jordan Walker, homegrown guys. That's pretty impressive. 469 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 2: In today's era of Major League Baseball, where there's so 470 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 2: much player movement, there are a lot of guys that 471 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 2: they have invested a lot of high draft picks, time 472 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: and money in getting to the major leagues. Now it's 473 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: time for them to develop up here and figure it out. 474 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 2: And I think once they do that. If they do that, 475 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 2: or even if they don't, then fans can get rid 476 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: of that that. I don't know what's going to happen mentality, right, 477 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 2: fans want certainty. I want to come see I want 478 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 2: to pay my money to go see a star. Who's 479 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 2: the next Cardinals star going to be? Is it Brenda Donovan, 480 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: is it Mason Win? Is it Jordan Walker? Well, we're 481 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 2: going to find out among the position players. They're going 482 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 2: to get a great chance to see those guys get 483 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 2: their five hundred and six hundred bats, and we're going 484 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 2: to know a heck of a lot more about them 485 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: as players, about the standing of the Cardinals team as 486 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 2: a whole, by the time we get to August first. 487 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: And that's what matters here. We know baseball Heaven. It 488 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: feels a lot more like baseball purgatory lately because there 489 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: is just no definitive direction, and the Cardinals have said 490 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: multiple times what they'd like their direction to be. Now 491 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: it's just a matter of getting there. They have four 492 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: weeks and then six weeks of spring training, so we'll see. 493 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm not throwing in the towel yet. I just under 494 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: I do understand the fan thanks about the situation. It's 495 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: the January. The team looks exactly the same, minus the 496 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: free agents that they knew were going to walk away anyway. 497 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: And that's a good point, if I can interrupt. You know, 498 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,719 Speaker 2: there's a team that won eighty three games last year 499 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 2: with a terrible offense. 500 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: Yes, and I. 501 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 2: Think it's a fair it's a fair point to make that. 502 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 2: You've got to expect that a full season of Wilson 503 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: Contreras is going to make this offense better. Mason went 504 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: with a full year under his belt, may be better 505 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: than he was. If Arnatto states, you know, he's going 506 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: to be extremely motivated to be a heck of a 507 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 2: lot better. If neut Bar can play one hundred and 508 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: twenty games, he should be better. You hope, And I 509 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 2: know we're selling hope in the old you know, hope 510 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 2: in one hand, something else in the other which fills 511 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: up first. But you've got to hope and believe that 512 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: Jordan Walker is going to figure out is an He's 513 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 2: an intelligent He's an intelligent kid who gets it and 514 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: wants to be great. If all of those things happen, well, 515 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: then we're talking about a team that could very easily 516 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: be in the mid eighties in wins from an offensive standpoint, 517 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 2: and then you think a whole lot differently about your 518 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: club come trade deadline in twenty twenty five. So me, 519 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: I tend to be a little more optimistic than most, 520 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: but I can afford to be. I don't have to 521 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: live and die with the outcome of the games. I 522 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: don't put the team together, nor to you, but I 523 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 2: think it's safe to say I'm rooting for these kids. 524 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: I'm really excited for them to get this opportunity, and 525 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 2: many other markets and many other organizations they wouldn't or 526 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: they would have been moved on. I think it takes 527 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 2: a lot of courage to have patience, as Clint Hurtle 528 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: once said, and the Cardinals are doing that with their 529 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: young players because I don't think they want to repeat 530 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: some of the mistakes they've made in decades past where 531 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: they've gotten rid of guys too early as opposed to 532 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: too late. So it's going to be a fascinating year 533 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 2: on many, many different levels come opening day March twenty eight. 534 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: I like this because I would hate coming to pitchers 535 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: and catchers and feeling pessimistic. And I do think to 536 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: make a great point that the Cardinals on eighty three 537 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: games in a busmal offense last year. Wilson contraras bookmark. 538 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: This is going to take off playing first base. He's 539 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: going to go crazy. I had a conversation with a 540 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: couple of writers today at our Baseball Writer's dinner that 541 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, that's our pick to click for the offense. 542 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: There are reasons to believe in this team. Just right now, 543 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like a very positive time for the 544 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: history of the organization. But that's how we leave baseball, 545 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: and that's why all of us keep coming back. 546 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's kind of symbolizes our city, doesn't it, right. 547 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: I mean people kind of count out Saint Louis. Yeah, 548 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 2: does a city have a lot of problems. There are 549 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: a lot of things that we would like to see 550 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 2: improve and be better. Yeah, And I think people all 551 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 2: around our nation kind of kick Saint Louis to the 552 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: curve and sort of dismiss us. I think that we 553 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: have a right to have a little bit of a 554 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: chip on our should. It's a great place to live 555 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: and work, it's a great franchise. It's been a terrific team. 556 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: There are people that really really care and are motivated 557 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: to put their best foot forward for the people that 558 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: are paying their harder and money to come out and 559 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: watch and play at Bush Stadium. And I really think 560 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 2: that that's going to be a subconscious motivating factor for 561 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 2: a lot of these teams. Dismiss this club at your 562 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: own peril. I think. I'm not saying they're going to 563 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: get to the World Series. I'm not saying they're gonna 564 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 2: win the Division. But I can promise you this, Ollie 565 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: and his staff are going to have these guys playing 566 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 2: hard one hundred and sixty two times a year, and 567 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: for that, I hope fans will be very, very proud 568 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 2: of that effort. 569 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: Love it my last one for you before we get 570 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: out of here. We have plenty of things to prepare for, 571 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: like you can figuring out the names on your caravan. Yeah, 572 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: you got why. I like this question. I asked it 573 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: a lot because I think it's fascinating, and also because 574 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: there are so many options to choose. Who take all 575 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: the players in the organization that you think have a 576 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: chance to perform at the major league level in twenty 577 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: twenty five? Who is the player you're most excited to 578 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: see next year? 579 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: Player I'm most excited to see next year. I'm gonna 580 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: say Jordan Walker. Yes, Jordan Walker, because he, fairly or not, 581 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: is such using the term lynchpin again like what we 582 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 2: did with Arnatto. I think he is such a lynch 583 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: into what the Cardinals organization wants to be. It's been 584 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: two decades since they've developed their own homegrown middle of 585 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 2: the order back think about that. I mean you got 586 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 2: to go back to Deliver Poole's right, that's pretty much 587 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 2: the last impact offensive player that was born and raised 588 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 2: a Cardinal, got to the show, became the star, and 589 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,239 Speaker 2: eventually a superstar. I think Jordan Walker has all the 590 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: tools in the world to be that kind of player. 591 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: And look, you know, we are fortunate enough to get 592 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 2: a chance to talk to Jordan as a human being. 593 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 2: Forget the baseball player part. I can't think of a 594 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 2: younger player that cares more about what he's supposed to do, 595 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: what he wants to do, and what he believes he 596 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 2: can do than he and so I think he has 597 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: a chance to really really be a special player if 598 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 2: we give him the time to figure it out. This 599 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: is such a hard game. And yeah, I know they 600 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 2: get paid thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, all that stuff. 601 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: I get that he's a twenty three year old kid 602 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: trying to make his way in a very very difficult 603 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: business with not all of safety net or runway. Well, 604 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: all those things, as we said, have been taken away 605 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 2: from him. I just wanted to relax, go out and killut. 606 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 2: And if he does that, look out, because we'll have 607 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 2: a monster on our hands. I think love that. 608 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: I would love nothing more than that, and I would 609 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: love very much to be reunited with you soon. So 610 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: luckily that will happen this weekend. Everyone's favorite event of 611 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: the year, Winter warm Up. Let's go, Oh my gosh, 612 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: what a time that's doom. From us on car Territory. 613 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: Trevor Rosendel's back with us on Tuesday. Most likely. I 614 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: think he might be actually flying back from Winter warm Up, 615 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: So we'll have two episodes next week. Just keep you 616 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: posted on the days you guys don't have this podcast works. 617 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: We're figuring it out day by day. You can follow 618 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at card Territory, Like and subscribe to 619 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: our page on YouTube, find us on Spotify, Apple, wherever 620 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Chip Carry, Thank you so much. 621 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: For keep up the great work at the Athletic. 622 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: We'll see you. Thank you. I will definitely see you soon. 623 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: All right, We'll talk to you guys next week. See ya.