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Speaker 1: Looks like we lost him.

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Speaker 2: So sorry, I don't know what happened. It's all good. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: another episode of Jews and technology. So there was a

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Speaker 2: thing there to close other tabs, so I did and

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Speaker 2: then I lost you. Should I close the others?

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Speaker 1: How they get you?

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Speaker 3: Welcome to off the Cup my anti anxiety antidote.

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Speaker 1: Really excited for today's guest.

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Speaker 3: I know people often think of me as like a

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Speaker 3: cable news personality. I guess like there's no getting around that.

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Speaker 3: I have been on cable news for two decades. But

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Speaker 3: at my core, I'm a writer. Many of you know

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Speaker 3: that I worked at my college newspaper. I wrote at

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Speaker 3: the New York Times for eight years. I've had a

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Speaker 3: weekly column for seventeen years, working on my third book.

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Speaker 3: I only came to television as a writer, and even

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Speaker 3: on television, I write all my scripts.

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Speaker 1: It's the thing I love to do more than anything else.

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Speaker 3: So when I get to interview writers, no matter the genre,

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Speaker 3: and we've had a bunch on the show, it's especially

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Speaker 3: fun because I would.

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Speaker 1: Write for anything, and I have.

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Speaker 3: I wrote for travel books, I wrote for food guides,

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Speaker 3: for financial papers, I had no business writing for. I

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Speaker 3: wrote for sports Illustrated for NASCAR, for Rolling Stone, for Oprah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I just love writing. I love talking to writers.

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Speaker 3: I want to know if they love writing, hate writing

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Speaker 3: the process. And I'm especially enamored of and impressed by

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Speaker 3: TV writers because I just think it sounds like so

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Speaker 3: much fun.

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Speaker 1: And I've been in a few writers rooms.

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Speaker 3: I consulted on Aaron Storkins the Newsroom and Apple TV's

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Speaker 3: The Morning Show, and the writer's room is so fun.

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Speaker 3: But TV writing, especially for sitcoms, it just seems like

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Speaker 3: a dream job. And we had Larry Wilmore on and

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Speaker 3: he talked about writing for Fresh Prince and Martin and

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Speaker 3: Carl Reiner.

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Speaker 2: Just incredible.

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Speaker 3: So today's guest is an acclaimed TV writer and producer.

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Speaker 1: He vote for the hit TV series Coach.

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Speaker 3: He was the creator, writer and DP of the hit

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Speaker 3: TV series Everybody Loves Raymond. He's also written, produced, and

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Speaker 3: starred an unscripted docuseriies like I'll Have What Phil's Having

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Speaker 3: on PBS and Somebody Feed Phil on Netflix. He's also

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Speaker 3: got a new book out with his daughter Lily called

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Speaker 3: Just Try It Someplace New. I like to think of

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Speaker 3: him as comedies Anthony Bourdain.

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Speaker 2: It's Phil Rosenthal. Welcome to Off the Cup. Hi Essie.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited you're here. Does it ring true to you? Comedies?

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Speaker 2: Anthony Bourdain, Here's how I sold Somebody Feed Phil And

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Speaker 2: I'm not kidding. I said one line, and this honestly

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Speaker 2: sold the show. This is the line. I'm exactly like

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Speaker 2: Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything. Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 3: I love that so much. I love Tony. You know

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Speaker 3: I got to know him a little bit when.

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Speaker 2: He was at CNN.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I got to meet him once.

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Speaker 2: I got to have dinner with him once. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 2: before I ever had the show. Yes, I just was

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Speaker 2: lucky enough to have dinner with him. What a guy,

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Speaker 2: superhero guy. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And you know what I love about him, And some

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Speaker 3: people don't know this. He didn't really want to be

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Speaker 3: a chef. He wanted to be a writer, and he

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Speaker 3: saw restaurants as a way to make money and get

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Speaker 3: material to write about.

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Speaker 1: And he was a brilliant writer.

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Speaker 2: But absolutely, I think that's what he was primarily.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's incredible to see someone who's so gifted

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Speaker 3: and both of those arenas. But he was like in

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Speaker 3: the moment the perfect person to drop into this to

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Speaker 3: do exactly what he and only he could.

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Speaker 2: Do, to reinvent an entire genre. Yes, every one of

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Speaker 2: us who does this, yeah, travel, food that we owe

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Speaker 2: everything to him.

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Speaker 1: Well, I totally agree.

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Speaker 3: And I love your fascination with food and called sure

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Speaker 3: I share it, and I love watching you eat and

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Speaker 3: talk about food.

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Speaker 1: You're really good at it. Tell me about Maxim Helens.

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Speaker 2: This is the apotheosis of my whole gestaff. This is

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Speaker 2: my own thing. It's all roads. We're leading to this,

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Speaker 2: the manifestation physically of everything I love in life. What's

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Speaker 2: that family, friends, food, travel, laughs, it's all in a place, yes,

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Speaker 2: And people say, what's it like? I have to be honest,

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Speaker 2: it's like having a hit show. Tell me, because think

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Speaker 2: about it. You build a set, Okay, in my case

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Speaker 2: for the diner, I said, I want it to look

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Speaker 2: like it's been here one hundred years. Yes, because the

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Speaker 2: neighborhood it's in is one hundred years old. We have

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Speaker 2: pictures on the walls of what Largchemont Boulevard looked like

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Speaker 2: one hundred years ago. Yeah. So when you come in,

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Speaker 2: all the aspects of it, the set, we'll call it

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Speaker 2: the set that design, the casting. Yes, the food, which

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Speaker 2: I would say is the scripts. These are recipes that

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Speaker 2: were written. Yes, these in a sitcom. The jokes have

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Speaker 2: to be good or no one's coming. Yes. At the diner,

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Speaker 2: the eggs have to be good, yes, or nobody's coming. Okay.

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Speaker 2: All these things conspire to give you a hug. Yes,

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Speaker 2: this is the feeling. That's why they call it comfort food. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and today I don't have to tell you maybe we

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Speaker 2: need a little comfort We do.

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Speaker 3: We do, but unlike unlike a hit TV show, you

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Speaker 3: get to watch people enjoying it.

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Speaker 2: No, I got to see it on Raymond. So Raymond

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Speaker 2: was a four camera sitcom. Oh yeah, you know you do,

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Speaker 2: Bill Mair. You see when the audience is there and

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Speaker 2: you get a.

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Speaker 1: Laugh the different thing, Yeah, beautiful thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the four camera sitcom that Desiarnez invented for

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Speaker 2: I Love Lucy. They had never done it before. Film

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Speaker 2: a TV show in front of a live owning its

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Speaker 2: meaning a sitcom. Yes, they had games and radio shows

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Speaker 2: and things like this, but film a sitcom. He used

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Speaker 2: three cameras. At the time. This revolutionized television. And this

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Speaker 2: form is gorgeous. Why because it's the perfect in between

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Speaker 2: theater and film. It's a marriage with the two. You

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Speaker 2: write it, rehearse it, present it as a play, and

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Speaker 2: then you have the flexibility meaning four camera angles, multiple takes, editing,

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Speaker 2: the flexibility, and then the permanence of film last forever.

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Speaker 2: So it's this great thing. They don't do it much anymore,

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Speaker 2: I know. And you know what the studio exects. Blame

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Speaker 2: the form. It's not the form, it's the content.

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Speaker 1: It's the content. It's the material. Yes, I want to

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Speaker 1: talk more about TV.

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Speaker 3: But for people who didn't grow up on the East Coast,

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Speaker 3: and in particular in New York and New Jersey, what

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Speaker 3: about a diner is so special?

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Speaker 2: It's the most democratic of restaurants. D with a small D, yeah,

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Speaker 2: meaning rich and poor. We all like it. Rich and poor,

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Speaker 2: we all pretty much can afford it. There's always something

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Speaker 2: on the diner menu that anyone can afford. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: it's the food that we grew up with, its comfort

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Speaker 2: with a big sea. It's really just we know what

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Speaker 2: this is. It's also very makes it very hard to

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Speaker 2: make a great one. Why, because you're competing with people's

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Speaker 2: actual memories and feelings.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like that ratitui moment. Yeah, right, going for that,

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Speaker 2: you're going for when somebody bites into that bacon, egg

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Speaker 2: and cheese sandwich, that they're zoomed back to childhood because

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Speaker 2: this is the best one maybe they ever had. And

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Speaker 2: that's what triggered all the fields. Yeah, oh totally. So

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Speaker 2: that's why and diners disappear. Hearing from America, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a lot of restaurants it's so hard for them to

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Speaker 2: make it, but diners especially maybe because you know, they

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Speaker 2: can't make a lot of money at a diner, so

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Speaker 2: they go under. But you know this, these aren't the

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Speaker 2: centers of communities. Yes, look how the news goes when

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Speaker 2: there's a presidential election. Where to people? Where in the diner?

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Speaker 2: Why because that's where they congregate.

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Speaker 1: Naturally, absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: Religion, it's not a thing. It's just the neighborhood. It's

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Speaker 2: where we meet our neighbors. And it is a microcosm.

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Speaker 3: Yes, even you know if you go in New York City, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, and you go to a diner in New

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Speaker 3: York City, it's the bus boy could be eating there,

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Speaker 3: and the banker could be eating there. It is a

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Speaker 3: total microcosm of a community.

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Speaker 2: So what happens. If we lose these places, maybe we

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Speaker 2: lose the centers of our community, maybe we lose our community,

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Speaker 2: and then maybe we lose the country. So I'm going

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Speaker 2: to save every thing with my diner.

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Speaker 3: I love this. What's the best thing on the menu

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Speaker 3: at Max and Helen's.

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Speaker 2: There's so many things, but I'll tell you the most

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Speaker 2: popular things. The thing that everyone is on everyone's table.

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Speaker 2: A waffle.

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Speaker 1: Great.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you have Nancy Silverton, who's the executive chef,

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Speaker 2: she's one of the best chefs in the country, if

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Speaker 2: not the world. If she focuses that brain on something

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Speaker 2: as mundane as a waffle, I think she made the

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Speaker 2: best waffle I ever had. It's a sour dough waffle.

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Speaker 2: It's ferments for three days before and then a big

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Speaker 2: hunk of real maple syrup infused fresh butter. That's milk.

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Speaker 2: The thing you have to have this, So that's our

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Speaker 2: idea table. And then Lily's hot chocolate. Lily is my daughter.

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Speaker 2: She runs the diner with her husband Okay, back of

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Speaker 2: the house. He's a chef and director of operations, and

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Speaker 2: Lily's the creative director. Nancy. When she graduated Colin, she

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Speaker 2: went to Paris to learn more about pastry making. Yep,

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Speaker 2: she went to a place called Angelina. Do you have

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Speaker 2: you heard of this place? I have? Have you been there?

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Speaker 1: I haven't been there, but I've heard about it.

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Speaker 2: So when you go, I want you to get their

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Speaker 2: hot chocolate. It's like the most It's the greatest hot

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Speaker 2: chocolate in the world. Nancy's job after college was stirring

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Speaker 2: that hot chocolate all day, reducing it down and thickening

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Speaker 2: it and concentrating the flavor. This is the recipe. And

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Speaker 2: Lily said that when Mason, her husband, makes her this

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Speaker 2: hot chocolate at home, he makes marshmallow fluff homemade, Yes,

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Speaker 2: puts it on the lip of the cup, and then

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Speaker 2: torches it with a blowtorch. So what you have is

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Speaker 2: a cup of Paris with a big hunk of America

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Speaker 2: on top.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that sounds incredible.

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Speaker 2: Ah, the kids rip the waffle and dip it in the.

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Speaker 3: Hot Okay, I mean now you're just showing off. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that sounds amazing. Okay, next time I'm in La, I'm

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Speaker 3: taking you Max and Helens. I'm going. I'm going.

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Speaker 1: So we talked about Anthony Bourdain and.

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Speaker 3: How food was his vehicle to writing.

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Speaker 1: What drew you to writing?

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Speaker 2: I failed as an actor.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I know you're in your high school drama club

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Speaker 3: and all of that, so initially you wanted to be in.

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Speaker 2: Drama high school club. I was the biggest star in

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Speaker 2: high school, so big that they encouraged me to go

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Speaker 2: to college for this to waste my life to you know,

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Speaker 2: when you graduated from college, which with a BFA in theater,

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Speaker 2: you know, the whole world's open to you. I moved

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Speaker 2: into New York. No nothing, I can't do. Nobody called

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Speaker 2: New York to tell them what a big star I

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Speaker 2: was in high school. I was like, well, I go

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Speaker 2: into an audition, a cattle call. They're forty thousand people

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Speaker 2: going for a war part with no lines. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this is hell. I'm in hell. Yeah, I'm dead. Why

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Speaker 2: didn't you tell me? They only told me a million

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Speaker 2: times not to do this. It should have been two million.

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Speaker 2: But I struggled in New York and I had odd jobs,

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Speaker 2: crazy like I was a guard at the Metropom Museum

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Speaker 2: of Art. I was fired because I one night I

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Speaker 2: was working midnight date in the morning. I thought I

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Speaker 2: could do this because I was twenty one. Well, they

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Speaker 2: found me in an exhibit, a period room from the

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Speaker 2: seventeen hundred. Yes, asleep on a three hundred year old bed.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, absolutely, Humilia. You can't do that. Well,

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Speaker 2: they don't like you touching the art, let alone sleeping

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Speaker 2: on it, so they fire you. And if you get

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Speaker 2: fired at night from the museum, you know it's on

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Speaker 2: it's on Fifth Avenue, but the back of it is

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Speaker 2: Central Park. That's so imagine getting thrown out, not the

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Speaker 2: front door. You don't not have to go out the

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Speaker 2: front door, out the back door into Central Park at

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Speaker 2: two in the morning.

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Speaker 1: Yep, that's that's quite an indignity.

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Speaker 3: Did you read There was a book written by a

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Speaker 3: night guard at the Met. He was a banker and

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Speaker 3: he quit his banking job on Wall Street to work

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Speaker 3: at the Met to find beauty, and then he wrote

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Speaker 3: a book called All the Beautiful Things in the World

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Speaker 3: something like that. It came out a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 3: It's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: I heard about that book, and I have to tell you, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I got some education when when I wasn't defiling the arc.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were sleeping on Mary Antoinette's couch, when.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't sleeping with the art. I was. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you go to museum, you don't have time to

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Speaker 2: read all the things on the side. You can't. You

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Speaker 2: don't have time. There's people in the way and this

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Speaker 2: that you got stuff to do. I have all day,

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Speaker 2: all night alone with the vote with the world's greatest art. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I learned so much. It was gorge I loved every

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Speaker 2: aspect of it except getting fired. Sure, But cut to

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Speaker 2: nine years later, I come to Hollywood. Somebody saw me

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Speaker 2: in a play and said, if you come to Hollywood,

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Speaker 2: you will never stop working as an actor. So I

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Speaker 2: packed a bag and moved to Hollywood. And I never

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Speaker 2: started working, isn't it. But I wrote some specscripts with

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Speaker 2: a partner sitcoms because I watched way too much television

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Speaker 2: as a child, and I, you know, I got the

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Speaker 2: Malcolm Gladwell's ten Thousand Hours. I got it. I got it.

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Speaker 2: It just somehow it got in there. So we wrote,

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Speaker 2: what are we going to write about? I said, how

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Speaker 2: about a Roseanne? This was the show of the time,

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty Yeah, what should we write? What if the

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Speaker 2: dad they need extra money and he gets an extra

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Speaker 2: job at night at the local museum and he falls

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Speaker 2: asleep on a three hundred year old bed, And we

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Speaker 2: sent this around and all the agents said, what an imagination.

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Speaker 2: So you never know where your break's gonna come from,

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Speaker 2: and you never know what life experience you have that

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Speaker 2: may serve you later. So the most humiliating moment of

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Speaker 2: my life getting fired from the Metro music part for

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Speaker 2: being an idiot. That was my ticket, yeah to writing,

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Speaker 2: and I can hired right away on a show nothing

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Speaker 2: you ever heard of. But I went from show to

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Speaker 2: show to show, and then I did get to work

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Speaker 2: on Coach for three seasons. And on the third season

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Speaker 2: that I was working there, I got a video casset

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Speaker 2: of a comedian they were trying to pair up with

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Speaker 2: a writer to create a show for this Ray Romano guy.

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Speaker 2: And is it right?

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Speaker 1: You had written a spec script for Frasier.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, right for people who.

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Speaker 3: Don't understand that what that means a sample, right, like unsolicited?

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Speaker 2: Exactly right.

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Speaker 3: So you know you're a writer in Hollywood and you're

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Speaker 3: going to write a script kind of out of just

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Speaker 3: your head based on the show that exists, right.

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Speaker 2: So exactly a show.

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Speaker 3: You think good work, Because these shows take scripts from

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Speaker 3: all kinds of places.

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Speaker 2: They mostly stick with their staff, but I think there's

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Speaker 2: a writer's build rule. They have to take one a

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Speaker 2: year from an outside source that keeps the pond fresh.

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Speaker 2: I guess it's very difficult if you're not in that

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Speaker 2: writer's room to get a script on there. But if

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Speaker 2: the script is good, even if they're listen, we did

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Speaker 2: something like that, or we have something coming up like

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Speaker 2: that already, or the story is going this way and

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Speaker 2: you went that way. But if it's good enough, it

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Speaker 2: serves as your audition, right, and other people can see

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Speaker 2: it and say, oh, this guy can write. Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: Ray Romano take that meeting with this guy. Yep, But

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Speaker 2: I Ray said, but I want someone from friends that's

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Speaker 2: the cool show. But that guy wasn't available, so I

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Speaker 2: got the job. Well, and how do you? How do you?

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Speaker 3: I don't know if he needed convincing, but like, how

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Speaker 3: did that the back and forth you two meet?

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Speaker 1: I think you met it? You met at arts Delta?

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yep? That's all good things happen at diners and Deli's like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I agree, And like what is that back and

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Speaker 3: forth where you guys are feeling each other out?

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Speaker 2: I ask him tell me about yourself, Justice, I would

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Speaker 2: ask you, if I'm going to write a show for you,

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Speaker 2: tell me about yourself. He said. I got twin boys

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Speaker 2: and an older daughter. My parents lived close by. They

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Speaker 2: were always bothering me, and my brother's a police sergeant.

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Speaker 2: He lives with them. He touches every bite of food

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Speaker 2: to his gym before he eats it. He's very jealous

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Speaker 2: of me. He once saw an award I won for

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Speaker 2: stand up, but he said, it never ends for Raymond.

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Speaker 2: Every buddy loves rape. Yeah, And I said, well, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem like there's anything there. We can use nothing.

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Speaker 2: But I thought that was a good starting point because

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Speaker 2: he never acted before, So why not make him something

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Speaker 2: that that's close to him that he can relate to. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And what I didn't know about their personalities, I filled

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Speaker 2: in with the personalities from my family.

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Speaker 3: So I was going to ask, because you know this

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Speaker 3: was going to be largely biographical, you had a kind

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Speaker 3: of source material in Ray's stand up and his background,

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Speaker 3: So where do you find the creative opportunity in writing

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Speaker 3: and producing this show.

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Speaker 2: It has to be relatable to me as well. Right away,

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Speaker 2: I got I got, I got it. The metaphor is

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Speaker 2: your parents, no matter how far away they are, are

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Speaker 2: in your life. Yeah. Yeah, the metaphor of them living

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Speaker 2: right across the street, which wasn't the case in Ray's life,

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Speaker 2: but they lived in Queens. You know, he lived in Queens.

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Speaker 2: It didn't have to be my parents. I'm living in

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles. They are in New York.

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Speaker 1: They're still ines capable, of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as there's a phone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're in your business.

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Speaker 2: They're in my business, and they were in my life.

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Speaker 2: And you you know, the bottom line is you want

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Speaker 2: them in your life. Yeah, as big a pain in

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Speaker 2: the ass as they are and you are to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is this is the most beautiful thing. So I

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Speaker 2: knew that with that underneath. He honestly he didn't. He

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Speaker 2: didn't see it. He didn't know it. Who thinks their

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Speaker 2: life is worth anything that's not TV worthy? Well, it

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Speaker 2: turns out it's very low concept. The idea guy and

359
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 2: his family live across the street from experience. Who cares? Then, no,

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Speaker 2: but it's not sexy. It's not hip and edgy, which

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Speaker 2: is all they want, hipp and edgy, hip and edgy.

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Speaker 2: I said, well, you got the right guy. I missed

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Speaker 2: the hip and Edgy. I only can do what I

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Speaker 2: can do. I only have the sensibility that I have

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Speaker 2: ye thanks to Max and Helen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

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Speaker 2: I draw from them. In fact, in the pilot episode

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Speaker 2: of the show, I need a scene that illustrates how

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Speaker 2: crazy raised parents are and what he's going to be

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Speaker 2: up against in every episode. And then I remembered this

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Speaker 2: thing that happened to me in real life. I sent

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Speaker 2: my parents for Hanukkah Fruit of the Month club. You

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Speaker 2: have this, do you know it? Yes? Yes, some people

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Speaker 2: don't know what it is. It's very simple. A nice

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Speaker 2: box of fruit comes to the house and it's a

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Speaker 2: subscription and get you get them nice beautiful fruits from

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Speaker 2: around the world. So the very first box that came,

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Speaker 2: I get a phone call from my mother in New York. Philip.

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Speaker 2: The gift came, did you know? Was a box of pears?

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Speaker 2: I said, yeah, Ma, you like it? She says, oh, oh,

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Speaker 2: they're very nice. Sure, but there's so many pairs. What

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Speaker 2: am I going to do with all these pears? I said,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. You eat them, give them to dead.

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Speaker 2: How many pairs can you find? Do me a favorite?

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Speaker 2: Don't ever send me any more food again. I said, well,

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Speaker 2: another box is coming next month, and she said, what

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Speaker 2: more pairs? And I said no, no, different box every month.

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Speaker 2: Every month. Maxie got us in some kind of cult

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Speaker 2: fruit gult. Yeah, why did you do this to me?

390
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Speaker 2: I said, I'm sorry. She goes, I can't talk anymore.

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Speaker 2: There's too much fruit. So I put that almost verbatim

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Speaker 2: into the pilot. Now I thought that was a good scene,

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Speaker 2: and the audience would say, ha ha, look how crazy

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Speaker 2: raised parents are, right right, Better than that, your parents

395
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Speaker 2: are crazy too, right right, I get letters. Still, the

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Speaker 2: same thing happened to me with my parents with Through

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Speaker 2: the Month club. But even without that, yeah, I stumbled

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Speaker 2: upon some universal truth. You can't give your parents a

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Speaker 2: gift without a blowing up in your face.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, good deed, Yeah right, yeah, yeah it happens.

401
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: So what's the magic word in all these shows, whether

402
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Speaker 2: it's drama or comedy. Relatability? Yes, yes, yes, it has

403
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: to be funny, But the magic hook is relatability. Yeah,

404
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 2: we identify. So what does that mean? It has to

405
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 2: be believable that it could happen in real life. That

406
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: was our rule in the writer's room. Could this happen. Yeah,

407
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 2: only rule if it We all know the shows where

408
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Speaker 2: reality or believability goes out the window for the sake

409
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Speaker 2: of the joke.

410
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Speaker 1: Yep.

411
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Speaker 2: And then you're hearing the writer and not the character,

412
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Speaker 2: and then you're only as good as your last joke.

413
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Speaker 2: There's one exception to this rule that I found in sitcoms,

414
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 2: and that's thirty Rock, where the jokes are so good

415
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 2: and so fast and furious and from a genius. You

416
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 2: don't care that it's not life, that it's not believable.

417
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Speaker 2: You understand that it's just the hair above an SNL sketch.

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Speaker 2: But the folks are tremendous.

419
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Speaker 3: That's so interesting, I I think for me, you know,

420
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Speaker 3: my favorite genre of television comedy is the sort of

421
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: like British Office Larry Sanders curb right, love love that, Yeah,

422
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 3: and I know what you mean. Like they're achingly painfully relatable,

423
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: which is why they're so funny, because it fetishizes the

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Speaker 3: awkward moments of life, which they do brilliantly.

425
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Speaker 2: But nothing cringe, right, which they forgot one thing the comedy. Yes,

426
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Speaker 2: yes you have.

427
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Speaker 1: To, that's exactly right.

428
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Speaker 3: No, So the jokes, the jokes are so important to

429
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Speaker 3: those shows, because otherwise they would just be uncomfortable.

430
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 2: Nobody watching. If it's if it's it doesn't matter, you know, Yes,

431
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 2: what's the most important thing in a sitcom? Unfortunately? Everything?

432
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: I love that.

433
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 3: Oh god, this is why I love talking to writers,

434
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 3: because I mean, this is so good.

435
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 1: You're telling me so much.

436
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 2: We had Brad.

437
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: Garrett on and he's so wonderful.

438
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, adore one of the funniest people on

439
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: the earth.

440
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: And it just doesn't get said enough, so I'll say it.

441
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 3: One of the kindest. He is so kind and thoughtful,

442
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 3: and he's been so wonderful to us.

443
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: He sent my he he wouldn't know from talking to him,

444
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 2: but because he's Don Rickles, he is.

445
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: But but you know, I've got.

446
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: To know him. Generous, generous, generous, soul, so generous.

447
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 3: He sent my kid a box of l e Oh

448
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: toys and stuff because he was He voiced in Eloh,

449
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 3: which came out maybe last year, and my son was

450
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 3: really excited to see it when he when he heard

451
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: that he sent a box of all this merch. I mean,

452
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 3: just so so nice. Anyway, we talked to him about

453
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 3: what a time it was to be on a hit

454
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: network sitcom in the nineties. I mean not only was

455
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: there something for everyone, but like the hit shows were

456
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 3: so good, from Raymond to Fraser to Friends to Seinfeld.

457
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: I mean it was such an era.

458
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 3: Do you, of course, do you feel like there was

459
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: a better time for sitcoms than the nineties.

460
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: That was the peak. That was the peak. Great, I say,

461
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 2: we were so lucky to get in and out of

462
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 2: that business at the peak of the business. Incredible. Yeah,

463
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: we were treated like royalty. I bet we were treated

464
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: I mean it was that that this ship has sailed.

465
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: There's this you know, streamers came along and the Internet

466
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: and now there's a billion, literally a billion choices fighting

467
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: for your attention. Our attention span has been decimated. Yes, uh,

468
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: it's I heard this not from a streamer. Somebody told

469
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: me this, like writing a show for a big streamer.

470
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: They got these notes, don't put outstanding moments in the show.

471
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: I said, what, what the hell? It's all we do

472
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 2: is writers is try to write the outstanding moment. As actors,

473
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 2: we try to find an outstanding moment that we can

474
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 2: show our stuff, or as directors an outstanding No, they

475
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 2: don't want it. Why because they're tracking us and if

476
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: you have an outstanding moment, you call your friend or

477
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 2: you text your friend and say, she jumps out the

478
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 2: window at twenty two thirty seven. They zoomed to that.

479
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: They watch that maybe over and over. They can't track you,

480
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: so that's important to them because at the end of

481
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: the day, they're kind of data collecting, and that's where

482
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: the money's coming from. I don't I don't understand it.

483
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: I don't like it. I don't want to get it

484
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: so distilled. A second note, here's the second note. It

485
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: ties in with the first note. Make shows for second screeners.

486
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: What does that mean? What's the first screen in everyone's life? TV? Phone? Yeah,

487
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: the phone? So in other words, everyone's on their phone.

488
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: Yeah right, okay, so they're not really watching. So again,

489
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: don't have outstanding moments. What does that? So just have

490
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: almost like a wallpaper, so that when Susie texts her

491
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 2: friend Sally, what are you doing? I'm watching so and so,

492
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: but you're not watching. You're texting your friend.

493
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: Right, But the thing is just like in the background.

494
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: And then that now we're able to collect the data

495
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: on you because it's on. It's going to stay on

496
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: because you're not really watching. So that's why when you

497
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: watch a thing, you're like, why is this story? So so,

498
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 2: why is there no story? What's going on? Purpose? Oh

499
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 2: my god, it's the end of everything.

500
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: It's the end of everything.

501
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 3: Yes, I remember, because I develop as well. I remember

502
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 3: some years ago I was taught like quibi was going

503
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 3: to be the big thing, and I was told, yes,

504
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: to write for five minutes, five minute chunks of time,

505
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 3: so that a college kid walking in between classes could

506
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: ingest an episode in the span of five to ten minutes.

507
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't, well, I don't know. I

508
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 3: don't know how to do that. I don't know how

509
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 3: to write that way.

510
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: The truth is the truth is this is now a thing?

511
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah I was years ago, right, Yes, now it's called.

512
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: A vertical yep, exactly right.

513
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: But at the time I met with those people, they

514
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 2: met with everybody. Would you like to write for Quibian?

515
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: They explained the whole thing to me, and I said,

516
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this is subscriptions of it, yes, uh and

517
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: only on the phone. Yes, I'm sorry. Isn't there a

518
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: thing called YouTube yep, yep, right, which is free? Right?

519
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: So that's why it didn't work, of course, Yeah, who's

520
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: that for nobody, and now the verticals are free.

521
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: Now, yep, because they had to be. Yeah, it's it's a.

522
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 3: TV and you know, I'm on I'm in a certain

523
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 3: uh you know, space of TV. But like I said,

524
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: I develop as well, some some nonscripted and you know,

525
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: I I wrote, I wrote a scripted sitcom set in

526
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 3: a newsroom at one point that maybe I'll do something

527
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 3: with one day. But you know, it's such a frustrating

528
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: business because there's a lot of rejection and even when

529
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: projects get picked up, it still feels like there's five

530
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: hundred places.

531
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: For it to die along the way before it gets

532
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: to air.

533
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, it's.

534
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: It's always been that way.

535
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 3: How do you How did you deal with the nature

536
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 3: of the business as you were coming up in it,

537
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: moving through it, and just like the the the rejection,

538
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: the churn, the green light that turns into a project

539
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: that's gone.

540
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: Like, it's very frustrating.

541
00:29:54,200 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: Very easy. Got depressed. I don't mean to laugh, but

542
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: I'm glad my mental affliction.

543
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: This is a mental podcast. So I love that you

544
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: said that, say more.

545
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: What else can you do? Yeah, it's why I had

546
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: to give up acting because I couldn't take all the rejection,

547
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: I was a little less rejected as a writer. Yeah, yeah,

548
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: I still am. Do you know after Raymond, I wrote

549
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: another sitcom. That's what people expected of me. I expected

550
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: of myself after a nine year run on that a

551
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: hit show. Yeah, nobody wanted it. Why it wasn't hip

552
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: and Edgie. They said that in the nine years that

553
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: you've been doing Raymond, the world change changed. Raymond had

554
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: trouble getting on the year it got up. Yeah, right,

555
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: m hm. We were never on the cover of the

556
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: magazines that was for Sex in the City, Yeah, BENDEGI. Yeah,

557
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: friends hit BENDEGI. So all people wanted was those kinds

558
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: of shows, which I'm not putting down. It's just not

559
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: what I do. Yeah. So after a couple of years

560
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: of striking out after having this hit show, I thought

561
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: what would I love to do? And I thought of

562
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 2: the travel show? Yeah, because I love travel, change my life,

563
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: most mind expanding thing we can do in life. Agree,

564
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: From the time Raymond was over to the time the

565
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: first iteration of that show, I'll have what Phil's Having

566
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:44,239
Speaker 2: is on PBS yep, ten years jeez. The lesson was,

567
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: I guess if you make something a priority in your life.

568
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: You won't stop until it happens.

569
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: And I imagine too like and we've talked about this

570
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 3: on this show too, because we again we talk about

571
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 3: mental health, we talk about career arcs and these pivot moments.

572
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: If you want something to happen enough, sometimes you have

573
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: to do it yourself.

574
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

575
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: And I'm sure it took you ten years to get

576
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 3: to the place where you, Yes, got.

577
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: That and almost and almost ten years after college before

578
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: I got work as an actor. You know how, some

579
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: friends of mine and I wrote a show for ourselves

580
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: to be in. Yes, you're literally writing your own ticket.

581
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: That same year, another friend of mine, he was a writer.

582
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: He said, we're going to write a screenplay. I said,

583
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do that. He said, I

584
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: know the structure. You're funny. Let's write a screenplay about

585
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: a suburban detective. Okay, we write it. We sell it

586
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: like that to HBO for seventy thousand dollars in nineteen

587
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: eighty eight. It was like I was making billions of that.

588
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. I was now a thousand years

589
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: and now I could eat and any diner you wanted

590
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: to instead of as an actor tuna fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

591
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: so that. I mean sometimes life presents you with what

592
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be. Well, I love that, to be

593
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: attuned to it. Don't be an idiot, but wait, I'm

594
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: not an actor, so what You're in the business, but

595
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: it's now look at me.

596
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: I get to be.

597
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: It's so I met you know, I mentioned I wrote

598
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: this sitcom, and and only only to say so, I

599
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 3: had I had been asked to consult on Aaron Sorkin's

600
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: The Newsroom, which was a beautifully written show about my business,

601
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: and obviously it treated the news very seriously.

602
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: It was a drama.

603
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: Yes.

604
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: When I was asked to come into the writers to

605
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 3: consult on the morning show, I saw Reese and Jen

606
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 3: and Steve Carell attached and I thought, oh good, this

607
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: is a comedy about my business and we deserve to

608
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: be skewered, okay. And so I got an that room,

609
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: and you know, we had some fun, but it became

610
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: a drama as well. And so I remember saying after that,

611
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 3: and I love both of those shows. Gosh, I can't

612
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: wait until someone writes a comedy about the news so

613
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 3: I can consult on that. And this really gnawed at

614
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 3: me for a while, and eventually I was like, why

615
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: am I waiting for someone to do the thing and

616
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: then hire me to consult on it when I could

617
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: write it myself? And so I have no business writing

618
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 3: a sitcom. This isn't my world, and I don't, you know,

619
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: know if anything will happen to it. But like I

620
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 3: was scared to leave the bubble of news and what

621
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 3: I am known for doing. It's not always as simple

622
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 3: as go off and do it yourself, Like, how did

623
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 3: you get the courage to not just do it but

624
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: then show it to people?

625
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: Easy desperation, hunger bills, Yes, I'd like to eat. We're

626
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: having a baby, Yeah, to take care of the baby,

627
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: I wrote a pilot called Everybody Loves Raymond? What that comes?

628
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: Did you grow up on? Oh my god? When I

629
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 2: was I was born in nineteen sixty, so the Honeymooners

630
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 2: had already been on, so but they were on every

631
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 2: day in reruns. Yeah, that was my absolute favorite as

632
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: a three year old. As a four year old, I

633
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: would imitate Ralph and Norton in the house. Yeah. I

634
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: loved it. I loved that. I love Lucy. I loved everything.

635
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: I loved anything that was remotely funny that came on TV.

636
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: And because there were only three channels, yes, very old.

637
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 2: I watched everything, whether I liked it or not. Why

638
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: because they were on, right, Because they were there? Yeah,

639
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: because they were there. Yeah. And then later on the

640
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 2: Dick Van Dyke Show, All the Family, the Odd Couple Taxi, Uh,

641
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: the Mary Tyler Moore Show, the greatest thing to talk

642
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: about a show set in a newsroom, right, maybe the

643
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: gold standard of sitcoms? Yeah, yeah, great, absolutely great? Uh.

644
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 2: You know there have been classic, amazing sitcoms. The building

645
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: block of TV networks happens to be the family sitcom,

646
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: which they said wasn't cool.

647
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but now network sitcoms are very much like what

648
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 3: you were talking about, Like, they're not edgy, they're for

649
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: They're for middle American families.

650
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: It feels like, are you talking about maybe something like

651
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 2: Leanne that's on uh.

652
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, or or the one thousand to Malan projects that

653
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: you know, Yes, they've they've done on recently Network since

654
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 3: Home Improvement. It seems like they figured out there's a

655
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: market for the non hip, non edgy, all American family.

656
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: I think so, but I don't think they would admit

657
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: it really to this day. Yes, do you know that

658
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: after Raymond went off, there wouldn't be another family sitcom

659
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 2: for five years, A modern family. Oh, it took that lot,

660
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: and it had to be modern. It had to be

661
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: single camera. Yeah, it had to have right, interracial, it

662
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: had to have day, it had to have all the

663
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: motto topical modern topics of the day. They did it

664
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: fantastically well. That pilot is one of the all time

665
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: greatest pilots I've ever seen in my life. Do you

666
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: remember that pilot?

667
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah.

668
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: You think you're seeing three disparate stories about three different

669
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: families and at the end they all gather for dinner

670
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: and it's one family.

671
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

672
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 2: Genius.

673
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

674
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: So even today with the that we can see on

675
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: network in prime time, yeah, they're still saying they're not

676
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 3: They're still they would still say they.

677
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: Want hip and edgy.

678
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, Wow, they want high concept. Okay, high concept

679
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: is we're from Mars and we live in the neighborhood

680
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: and we have to pretend that we're not from Mars. Yeah,

681
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: they're right to find out we're Every show though, that

682
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: you write, every episode has to serve that premise. So

683
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: what happens after a year or so you run out

684
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: of shows because it's so repetitive. Yes, right, and it's

685
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: the same plot every that's how you have to service

686
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 2: a high concept show, so it can only run a

687
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: little while. You know, it runs for nine years. Guy

688
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: lives across the street from the spirit.

689
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,919
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, speaking of nine year it's hard to sell.

690
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to sell because it's not nobody's jumping

691
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: up and down. Oh my god, we have to have

692
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 2: that sexy joke.

693
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: No, about the guy that lives across the street from

694
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:57,479
Speaker 1: his parents.

695
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it turns out to be the stuff of life.

696
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 3: But speaking speak of nine years, you know, I was

697
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 3: a big fan of the British Office and Ricky Gervais

698
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 3: and Stephen Merchant decided they wanted to end that series

699
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: after just two seasons plus a Christmas special, and they

700
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 3: did the same fantastic. They did the same with their

701
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 3: follow up extras, talk about deciding to end Raymond when

702
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 3: you guys did.

703
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 2: Oh, we started to run out of ideas and I

704
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: wanted to get off the air before somebody said, hey,

705
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: you should get off the air.

706
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: This is tired.

707
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah you want to leave when we all know the

708
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: shows that stay too long, Yes, we do where it gets.

709
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: You know, you can see they're running on fumes and

710
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: they did it for the money. Yeah. I never did

711
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: anything for money after I can feed myself nothing for money.

712
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: I quit Raymond twice before it got on the air

713
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: because I didn't think it was going to be right. Wow.

714
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 3: But you have other influences as an EP, as a

715
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: show runner because other people are making money and you

716
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 3: know you're employing lots.

717
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: And lots of people. So what kind of us or

718
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: did you face a lot?

719
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? I bet everyone. Everyone wants to continue, including my family,

720
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: my parents. What are you doing where you're gonna get

721
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: another job?

722
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, god that You're like, I'm okay it please,

723
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 3: I'm gonna hit show.

724
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,959
Speaker 2: I think I'm okay. It wasn't about that, but thank god,

725
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: by the way, Ray Romano felt the same way, because

726
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: the network literally said, you can go Phil as long

727
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: as we have Ray, we don't care if they read

728
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: the phone book. Wow. And so that's how much writers

729
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: are value.

730
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, right right, But he was ready to.

731
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 2: It's it's not that we were tired of doing it.

732
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 2: We just felt it started. You know, in the writer's room.

733
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: Have we done that before? It seems a little similar

734
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: to this one, because why we did two hundred and

735
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: ten right episodes about this family at this time in

736
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: their lives. There's only you know, we can't fast forward

737
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: to you know now they're grandparents, right right, right, So

738
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 2: there's a limited number I think of anything, and you

739
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 2: want to get off the stage before somebody says, hey,

740
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: you get off the stay. And I also such a

741
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: student of TV. I thought, if you can keep it

742
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: good till the end, you might have lasting value. And

743
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: so this year we're celebrating our thirtieth year of being

744
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: on television. Wow. Yeah, that's what you're saying on somewhere

745
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: in the world every minute.

746
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: That's incredible.

747
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 2: So that's that's called trying to make a legacy, trying

748
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: to make something of lasting value. The other thing you

749
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 2: do to make sure that happens is and I would

750
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: warn you, even though you didn't ask, if you're doing

751
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 2: the news show, it's going to be pretty hard to

752
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: do it without topical jokes. Yeah yeah, but we avoided them.

753
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: M that thirty years you could still laugh at the

754
00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 2: universal things.

755
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: So I would tell you, I see what you mean.

756
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: Yes, even though you're going to have topical jokes it's

757
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: a new show. The number one thing are the characters

758
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,959
Speaker 2: in their relationships, right, so that like all the Family,

759
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: they had some topical jokes. But people love that show

760
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: because Archie and Edith and Archie and Meathead.

761
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, not the.

762
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: More races, the seventies jokes.

763
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah right right. Yeah, Oh that's good advice. I will

764
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: take that.

765
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: I want to talk about Just Try It Someplace New,

766
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 3: which you wrote with your daughter Lily. This feels like

767
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: a book that's like, at.

768
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: Its core, ultimately about anxiety.

769
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: You got it. Yeah, So here's the thing. We all

770
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: have a fear of the unknown.

771
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

772
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: And when is that most pronounced? When you're a little kid?

773
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: Right.

774
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: So the first book was Just Try It. It was

775
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: just called just Try It. Yeah. It was about food.

776
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: Dad who eats everything. I don't know how we got

777
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: this idea and this little girl who won't eat any

778
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 2: yeah and how. And it became a New York Times

779
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: bestseller because people used it as like a self help

780
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 2: book for little kids. Yeah, they wanted to try why

781
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: because Lily in the book is trying it and she

782
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: doesn't die? Right? He likes it all? Right. Now, We've

783
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: got a series of book deals with Simon Schuster. I thought, well,

784
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: it could be just about foods of the world, but

785
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: that's a little boring to me. Just try. It applies

786
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 2: to everything in life that a kid has to try

787
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: for the first time. So let's say we're talking about travel. Yeah,

788
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: where's the first place a kid goes in their life.

789
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 1: Grandma's house. Yeah yeah, grandma's house.

790
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: Just try it someplace new. Lily is going to sleep

791
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: over at grandma's. What if her bed, What if the

792
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: bed isn't my I love my bed, I have all

793
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 2: my things. What if her neighbor what if she's old?

794
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: What if it's all like broccoli is the only thing

795
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: to eat. If it's just you know, old people food

796
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 2: and old people things, I'm gonna hate it. So Dad

797
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 2: goes with her and it's a nice I think these

798
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 2: are nice. Here's have you ever written a kid's book?

799
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 2: I haven't yet.

800
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: It's something I'd like to do.

801
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: You have kids, I do I wanted to do. Lily

802
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: suggested that I write a kid's book because kids like

803
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 2: my show and I love kids in the show. And

804
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: I said, I'd do it if you do it with me.

805
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: So that was really sweet to do. But I think

806
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: we discovered that the key to a good kid's book

807
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: is that it transcends being about the kids. Okay, how

808
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: many grown ups do we know who won't try new things?

809
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 3: Oh?

810
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, exactly, yes.

811
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: And the thing I picked up on was because I've

812
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,439
Speaker 3: talked very openly about my anxiety, which is a specific thing,

813
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 3: but I've also talked about my son, my son anxiety,

814
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: and he's very much averse to trying new things. And

815
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 3: that could be food, but it's also just like you know,

816
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: anything new, yeah, is scary to him. And it's so

817
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 3: funny because I'm he's experienced no big changes in his life,

818
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: none right by by his age, I had been through

819
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 3: my parents' divorce, I had moved five or six times.

820
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: I had been to six or seven schools.

821
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: The only constant in my life was change, and he's

822
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 3: experienced none.

823
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: And so I was trying to like figure out.

824
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 3: I was asking him, like trying to figure out is

825
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 3: he so change a verse as a reaction to some

826
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 3: kind of trauma he had that I'm unaware of.

827
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: So I asked him, once.

828
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 3: Jack, what what do you think the biggest change you

829
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 3: have experienced in your life has been?

830
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: And he was like ten at the time.

831
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 3: And he thought real hard and he took a deep

832
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: breath and he goes, when we got the new.

833
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: Couch, Oh, that's awesome.

834
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, can we trade childhoods? Because your

835
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 3: sounds awesome if the biggest change in your life was

836
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: the new couch. But you don't have to know why.

837
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 3: Some people are just very anxious around change. And so

838
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 3: the universality of this theme is right on. I mean

839
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 3: I picked up on it as an adult, you know,

840
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 3: And the utility of this message for like anybody, but

841
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 3: especially kids.

842
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: They're little self help books, I think, and you know

843
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,919
Speaker 2: you have to I always go back to Mary Poppins. Yeah.

844
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 2: Mary Poppins is the most genius entertainment maybe ever written.

845
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: Why when you're a little kid, that movie's about the

846
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: little kids who have a magical nanny com and make

847
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: their life really fun and great. Yeah, when you're grown

848
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 2: up and you watch it with your kids, you cry

849
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: because you realize it's about the dead. It's about the

850
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 2: old movie is really about the dead. It works on

851
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,280
Speaker 2: that level. Mary comes not to change the kids life,

852
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 2: but to change the dad. The dad revises at the

853
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 2: end that he should be more of a dad and

854
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 2: less of a banker.

855
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: Oh, Lex listen to music similarly, yeah.

856
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: Of course, and so yeah same either way.

857
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 3: Same lady, right right, Oh, I've not thought about it

858
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 3: that way.

859
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so beautiful. M So if you can, if

860
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: you can reach the parents, well, how many parents? How

861
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 2: many grown ups do we know who won't try new

862
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: foods or new ideas or just having anxiety about all

863
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 2: kinds of things. Yeah, of course our biggest fear is

864
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 2: the unknown? Yes, right, So you know my joke about

865
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: being Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of everything, that

866
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: was actually true. But now that I did the unknown things,

867
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 2: and I have a terrible brother who is our producer

868
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 2: and pushes me to do awful.

869
00:47:52,560 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 4: Things, I am not as afraid anymore because I faced

870
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 4: the unknown and.

871
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: It didn't kill me. Mm hmm, it's not it's not

872
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 2: made me stronger. No, it's just that I'm not. I mean,

873
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: even if the like jumping in the cold water off

874
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 2: right Ireland, which I've done now yeah, not doing it again.

875
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: No, but you know, won't kill you. It's a data point.

876
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: It's a data point.

877
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 2: It won't create if if somebody you know said you're

878
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: going I would say, well, I lived through it once,

879
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: I could do it again. I'm not afraid. I'm not

880
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: definitely afraid.

881
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oh god, I could talk to you forever

882
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 3: about so many things.

883
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 2: But going to we're going to go to the diner.

884
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,479
Speaker 3: We are going to go to the diner, that's for sure.

885
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 3: But let's just end with a little lightning round. That's

886
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:52,919
Speaker 3: really fun.

887
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: Oh okay, what's the.

888
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: Thing in your career that you've not done yet but

889
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: would like to?

890
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 2: I should sing more? Oh do you have a good voice?

891
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: Phil?

892
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: I used to. I don't know at at this age

893
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 2: if it's still there, but I always liked it. I'd

894
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 2: love to sing and act more. I think like that.

895
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: When I was I was, I didn't have the stomach

896
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 2: for the auditions and stuff. But now having been on

897
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 2: this side of it as a showrunner and a director

898
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 2: and being on my own show where I get to

899
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 2: be me, but it's still somewhat of a performance in

900
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: that you still have to be the best version of yourself. Right.

901
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 2: If I went back to acting now, i'd be unstoppable.

902
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: I love this for you, Let's manifest it.

903
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: Yes, I do get Some people do ask me to

904
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 2: be on their shows once in a while like I

905
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 2: did Curb.

906
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: I know you did.

907
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah that was really fun.

908
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean why do you turn people down when

909
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 3: they ask you to be on their shows.

910
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 2: If I don't have time, but I yeah, if I

911
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: like the show, I sometimes I'll ask them. I just

912
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: love that.

913
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 3: Oh well, okay, I hope we see a lot more

914
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: of you and hear a lot more of you. I'm singing,

915
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 3: what was the hardest know you ever got?

916
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 2: There's so many, you know. I was shocked after Raymond

917
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: that they didn't want the spin off of Raymond. Okay,

918
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: yeah with bred Garrett. Yeap, he was. He was married

919
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: to someone who I thought was a great actress, my

920
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 2: wife right in the show.

921
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: Yep, she was.

922
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 2: Monica was his wife on the show. So it's going

923
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 2: to be their fan. They're gonna move to Pennsylvania where

924
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: her family lives. Now. These people had been on the

925
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 2: show thirty times. Who were they? Georgia Engel, Fred Willard

926
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 2: and Chris Elliott. It'd confect thirty times. They were proven.

927
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: You know what they said, everyone's over forty, we're trying

928
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 2: to be more hip and Deedgie.

929
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, that must have gutted you.

930
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it.

931
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are hard, but we always learned something.

932
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: What's the best East Coast diner?

933
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: Oh? The one that inspired me, the one in Biddeford, Maine,

934
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: The Palace Diner. Go. Everyone should go. You can see

935
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: it in the main episode of Somebody Feedfill. You can

936
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 2: see it, and when you see it, you will go. Okay.

937
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 2: Favorite restaurant for a date night, Oh, I would say

938
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: Max and Helen's. We've had people. Oh, I got to

939
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: tell you this. There's a counter, which is probably the

940
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: most democratic thing in the world. Why. Yeah, because everyone's

941
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 2: equal and the curve of a counter might be the

942
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: greatest social lubricant in the world. Yes, because you're looking

943
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 2: at a stranger when you didn't mean to. Yes, you

944
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: just sat at the counter. But right away, here's the

945
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: person is here. Right, you can avoid them, maybe next

946
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: to you, but when they're here and you're looking right

947
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: at them, even though you don't book a table for two. Right.

948
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 2: A guy comes in with flowers one day at the

949
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 2: diner and gives them to us, beautiful flowers. Why said,

950
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 2: you sat me at the counter the other night about

951
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: a month ago. At the counter is alone, and then

952
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 2: you sat a lady who was alone next to me.

953
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 2: We're dating and in lone. I love that. Doesn't get

954
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: more romantic than that. How's your meat loaf? Great? How's

955
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 2: your chocolate shake? Great? Now you're fifteen again? At the

956
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 2: you know, at the shop. You've got a shop? Oh god,

957
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: how great is that?

958
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: Okay? I asked Andrew Zimmer this and he hates this.

959
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: Great.

960
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,240
Speaker 3: I love him, Yeah, he is great. He hates this question,

961
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 3: but we're friends, so I got away with it. What's

962
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 3: your favorite food destination?

963
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:05,760
Speaker 2: There's so many?

964
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he says. He's like, this is a

965
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: terrible question.

966
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 2: It's anywhere. There's so many and the food is so

967
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: great all over the place. I tell you, the first

968
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: thing that popped in my head that that that I

969
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: recently in my life within the first Japan, Yes you've been, No,

970
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: I'm dying.

971
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: That's the number one on my food destination list is Japan.

972
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: Okay. I told you to watch the main show, watch

973
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: the Kyoto.

974
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 3: Yep, okay, yep, you're going to go. Oh, I can't

975
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: wait to go. I mean it's been on our bucket

976
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 3: list for a long time.

977
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 2: Serenely beautiful place on earth and great you go to Japan?

978
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 2: It's just a way to be. You go to Japan,

979
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 2: you go to the pharmacy, you buy a pack of gum,

980
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: They wrap it for you as if it's for your

981
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: hundredth perth. Yeah. Yeah, little kids are on the street

982
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 2: there there, and let's say, in Tokyo, the busiest city

983
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: in the world, they've got backpacks on. There's even shows

984
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: about this. Three years old, four years old doing errands

985
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: for their parents alone. I said, how do you let

986
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: this happen? You know what they said? The community cares

987
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 2: for the children.

988
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: It's incredible.

989
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: The community cares for the children. Yeah, you could cry

990
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 2: thinking about it totally. At opportunities not taken, lessons not learned,

991
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 2: ways to.

992
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: Be that we have decided not to be.

993
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've long wanted to go for all

994
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 3: of those reasons.

995
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: I will. Okay, what's your favorite movie?

996
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,439
Speaker 2: Mary Poppins is one of them? Jaws, The Godfather, One End, two.

997
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: I go through my life pretending there was no three. Yeah, yep,

998
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: I have a lot love. I love movies. We have

999
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 2: movie night here at the house. You'll come.

1000
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: I love movie night.

1001
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: That's great.

1002
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, this is the final question. It's very important

1003
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 3: to me. We ask it at the end of every podcast.

1004
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 3: When is it iced coffee season?

1005
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: Phil?

1006
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 2: As soon as it gets warm?

1007
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so for you, it's tied to a temperature.

1008
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: Temperature, Yeah, okay, that's answer. I'll tell you what. It's

1009
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: never season. Pumpkin in your coffee.

1010
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: Oh, I agree totally.

1011
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 2: Who thought of this? Who needs? That's some crappy coffee

1012
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: if you need to put pumpkin in it? I agree.

1013
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 3: And we say this all the time because we have

1014
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 3: another podcast called Talking Coffee, where like, you don't like

1015
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 3: the taste of coffee if you're putting stuff like pumpkin

1016
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 3: and crazy creamers in it?

1017
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: Like, coffee is the best flavor in the world.

1018
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 2: You got it. And what I've learned in all my

1019
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 2: travels is the difference between good and bad coffee is

1020
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 2: good coffee doesn't need anything in it. Nothing.

1021
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: That's so true. That's so true.

1022
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 3: Well it's the incorrect answer. Ice coffee season is year round.

1023
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 3: But that's okay. I'm just glad you love coffee as

1024
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 3: much as we do. This was such a joy. Thank

1025
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: you so much for joining us.

1026
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 2: I really love combat. I love that one's very fast.

1027
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: And now I'm going to go eat lunch. At the diner.

1028
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 3: Enjoy and I will give you a ring when I'm

1029
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: out in La So maybe we can go to Max

1030
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: and Helens together.

1031
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 2: Do we have a connection? Do we do? We have

1032
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: a thing? You know how to get me? I think

1033
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 2: I do.

1034
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: I think I do. Yes, I can get you.

1035
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you.

1036
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 3: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1037
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 3: part of the Reason Choice Network.

1038
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:31,879
Speaker 2: If you want more, check out the.

1039
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 3: Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native

1040
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 3: Land pod. For Off the Cup, I am your host,

1041
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 3: Si Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our

1042
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 3: executive producers are me Si Coup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman.

1043
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 3: Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Follow or

1044
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 3: subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.