1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast contains spoilers for actually nothing this time, 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: but references to a Foundation season two airing now on 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Apple TV Plus. 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: Hello. 5 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: My name is Jason Cepcio and I'm Rosie Night and 6 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: welcome to Extra revision of the Crooked Media podcast, where 7 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: pop culture. 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 3: In this episode, Strike Watch. Then we're heading to previously 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 3: on for an SDCC scene report and a little talk 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 3: about that Barbenheimer box office. 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: In the Hive mind as an. 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 3: Interview with writer, producer director David Eskoya, and in the 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 3: Nerd Out, some thoughts on Indiana Jones coming up. 15 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: Strikewatch the historic double Strike continues, and some updates here. 16 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: Dwayne Johnson, who we have been tough on on this podcast, 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: has has come up big. We talked about in the 18 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: previous episode how important it is that the most powerful 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: and successful members of the WGA and SAG have been 20 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: support have been in this fight to support, you know, 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: some of the people who are in the lowest rungs 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: of the ladder. And here is Dwayn Johnson who has 23 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: come through with a historic seven figure donation to the 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: SAG Fund per variety during the COVID nineteen pandemic. The 25 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: sag after Foundation work to provide financial relief to many 26 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: unions one hundred and sixty thousand members via the foundation's 27 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: Emergency Financial Assistance Program, which will again be used during 28 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: the strike, and just in recent days it has been 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: that Dwayne made a truly historic donation to the fund. 30 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: I think like you made a great point when we 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 3: talked about the strike for the first time, which is like, 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: this is the thing that makes us love comic books. 34 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 3: It's like the people who are most powerful, who have 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 3: the power, looking after the people who don't. And in 36 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 3: this reporting there was something really interesting which I think 37 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: sums up the power of why a union like this 38 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: when it works like this is really really great. 39 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: Because it was saying that Courtney b. 40 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 3: Vance, who's the Sagafro Foundation President and executive director Sid Wilson, 41 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: actually wrote a letter to the twenty seven hundred of 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 3: the union's highest earning actors being like, look, we need money, 43 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 3: Like you're rich, give us money, And I'm like, that's 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 3: exactly how it should be. And I love that Dwayne 45 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: was the one who stepped up and was like, well, 46 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: I'm given seven figures, so who else wants to jump in, 47 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 3: So I'm ready to see more rich people giving money 48 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: to this, because, like you said, this is for the 49 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 3: workers who are going to be in a situation where 50 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 3: they're not going to make healthcare this year. The twenty 51 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 3: six thousand dollars that they need to make annually is 52 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 3: not going to happen. I could even be if they 53 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: were still working, that might have happened anyway, with the 54 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 3: way residuals are. 55 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: So it's really great this is happening. I love to 56 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: see it. 57 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 4: George R. R. 58 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: Martin, who our good friend, George R. Martin, has came 59 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: in on the strike the King. In his latest entry 60 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: on his not a Blog blog, he has weighed in 61 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: on the strike, calling it quote the most important of 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: my lifetime. He continues, no one can be certain where 63 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: we go from here, but I have a bad feeling 64 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: that this strike will be long and bitter. It may 65 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: get as bad as the infamous nineteen eighty five strike. 66 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 4: Though I hope not now. Of course. 67 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: George has been a member of the WGA since the 68 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: mid eighties, and he also continues with updates about How's 69 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: the Dragon quote How's the Dragon is shot? Mostly in London, 70 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: a little bit in Wales and Spain and various other locations, 71 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: which is why filming is continue. The actors are members 72 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: of the British union Equity, not SAG after and though 73 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: Equity strongly supports their American cousins, British law forbids them 74 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: from staging a sympathy strike. If they walk, they have 75 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: no protection from being fired, breach of contract or even sued. 76 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: That's terrible, terrible, terrible law. 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 3: It's really strange too because England has a history like 78 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: as George actually says in this blog, one of the 79 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 3: major two parties is called the Labor Party, is built 80 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 3: on the idea of protecting workers, but that has changed 81 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: as the parties moved more centrist. And it's really interesting 82 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 3: because the subways in England we call it the Tube, right, 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: they have an incredibly powerful union, the Transport Workers, and 84 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 3: that the fact that their union is so powerful has 85 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 3: kind of been used to turn union sentiment in the public. 86 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: To be like, oh, well, they're getting it and you're not. 87 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: When the big reminder that we all have about unions 88 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: is if you see someone in a job and you 89 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 3: see them getting good benefits and going on strike to 90 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 3: get better pay, and they get paid. 91 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: Better than you. 92 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: Don't ask why they're getting that, ask why you're not 93 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: going on strike to. 94 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: Get it, you know. 95 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 3: So it's kind of that thing. Yeah, I really I 96 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: was actually even shocked. Even though I knew the union 97 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: protections weren't strong, I didn't realize they were. You can 98 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: get fired and sued by HBO Max if you walk 99 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 3: not strong. 100 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely nuts. 101 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: Also, wait, I just want to say as well, because 102 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 3: this is a great This shows how scared the studios 103 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: are right now. 104 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 2: George R. 105 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: Martin, his overall deal with HBO was suspended. That's right 106 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 3: June first, which they're doing with a lot of people, 107 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: but you don't expect him to be one of them. 108 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: I think they're doing it, I will say, it seems 109 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: like they're doing it with everybody. They're taking the opportunity 110 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: to not pay people. Now there's a there's a significant 111 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: calendar date coming up in August sometime, which is the 112 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure of the exact day, but it will 113 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: be the point at which contractually the studios have the 114 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: opportunity to cancel some overall deals completely wow by claiming 115 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: force majures. This happened last time and you would back 116 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: them to do it this time. 117 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 4: You know. One of the talking points you. 118 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: Hear is, oh, so who actually likes this early part 119 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: of the strike because they want to save money, they 120 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: want to get rid of deals that aren't performing. 121 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 4: I'm sure George will not. 122 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: Be among those who are whose deals are canceled. But yeah, 123 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: I think everybody is not. Is everybody on an overall 124 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: is not that cost check Claire, and some of them 125 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: may be maybe done away with in the coming weeks. 126 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 4: SAG approval. 127 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: SAG has granted approval for thirty nine productions to continue 128 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: during the strike, including two films from the artistic Darling 129 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: studio A twenty four. The list includes two projects from 130 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: A twenty four's the independent production company. The titles are 131 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: Mother Mary starring Anne Hathaway and MICHAELA. Cole, and Death 132 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: of a Unicorn starring Paul Rudd and Jenny Ortega. So basically, 133 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: SAG has kind of signaled that indie projects that aren't 134 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: you know they were, they're going to like forensically look 135 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: through their accounting. But anybody that's not taking money from 136 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: the studios and not is not going to be distributed 137 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: by any of the major players. It's truly an indie movie. 138 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: And as in the case with A twenty four, studios 139 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: who agree tacitly to the WGA and SAG's demands and 140 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: says we'll go by, we'll go by what your proposals are. Now, 141 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: we'll just willingly do that are allowed to continue shooting. 142 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: So if a twenty question is if A twenty four 143 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: can do it, why can't the rest of them? Yeah, 144 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: we'll see where this goes. 145 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, what what's have you you been on the picket line? Obviously, 146 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 3: what's the feeling been on this, because I've seen it's 147 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 3: been quite controversial. Some people are like, yeah, A twenty 148 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: four are doing it, that's amazing. But some people are 149 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 3: also like, well, this is giving the biggest name actors 150 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: paid work when people are out on strike who are 151 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 3: kind of the lowest rung workers who are really need 152 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 3: that money. 153 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: It it's a little bit of a wait and see. 154 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: I think people, I think everybody understands the idea, which 155 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: is one, support the independent producers out there are truly 156 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: independent film number one, which is just a good thing 157 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: to do, and number two try and create these divisions 158 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: by saying, hey, if you if you agree to our proposals, 159 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: we can serve them and right away like who wants 160 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: to who else wants to come in? You know, that's 161 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: how they notably the agency campaign from a few years ago, 162 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: which I won't delve into, but part of how that 163 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: eventually resolved is you know, the studios one by one 164 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: saying okay, fine, we'll work with you if you were working, 165 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: if we end so, if they can peel off some 166 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: of the members of the AMPTP, that's all for the good. 167 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: That said, I think that there is there's also some Okay, well, 168 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: let's see how this goes, because I thought the idea 169 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: was we're not working, so we'll see. 170 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 5: Yeah. 171 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: The ampt released a twenty three page document a few 172 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: days ago. We're recording this on July twenty fifth. They 173 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: released this document on July twenty first, and it had 174 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: their version of the I guess last few negotiation rounds 175 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: with sag AFTRA, their proposals and counter proposals. You can 176 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: find that in various places, but the Hollywood Reporter had 177 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: a good write up of it. But there's one thing 178 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: that I wanted to So one of the things that 179 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: of course has been a sticking point is the the 180 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: issue of revenue sharing, you know, aka residuals, which is 181 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: how many writers and actors you know, keep the lights 182 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: on when they're not you know, in the months often 183 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, significant amount of months between jobs. And the 184 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: aptp's position is that they don't want. 185 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 4: To pay them exactly. 186 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: They don't want to those anymore. You know, they say, well, 187 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: the business has changed, you know, tech has come in Netflix, 188 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: Apple and Amazon, and they have different cultures. Their culture 189 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: is based on secrecy. They don't want to give up 190 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: the streaming numbers. Any kind of revenue sharing sharing and 191 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: the success of a project would necessarily involve the sharing 192 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: of the viewership numbers, and they don't want to do that. 193 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: So in their kind of counter to SAG's revenue sharing proposal, 194 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: the AMPTP statement says, quote, the union is proposing that 195 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: performers share in the rewards of a successful show without 196 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: bearing any of the risk. The union proposes to share 197 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: in success, but not in failure. That is not sharing one. 198 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: This is the way it's been done in the yes, 199 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: of course, like the actors are not putting up their 200 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: own money and mortgaging their houses so that like, you know, 201 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: the project can go through that said throughout the entire 202 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: history of TV, this is basically how it's been done. 203 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 4: It's been understood. 204 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: Yes, of course the studios are making the capital investment, 205 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: but anything that succeeds beyond a certain set point, then 206 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: it's time to share in the wealth. And the AMPTPI 207 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: now says, well, that's the old thinking, We're not going 208 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: to do that anymore. I don't think that the unions 209 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: should accept that. But number two, this idea that because 210 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: the actors are not taking on a form of like 211 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: scaled capital risk is actually completely wrongheaded. First of all, 212 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: a lot of this is a fight for actors and 213 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: writers to be able to one make their year, which 214 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: has been which is something that's gotten harder and harder. 215 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: Making the year essentially means making enough money through the 216 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: guild through guilt work to qualify for health insurance. Anybody 217 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: who has struggled to figure out, like, where's my health 218 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: insurance coming from? How am I going to get it? 219 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: Can I keep it? 220 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 4: What am I going to do? 221 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: Understands that like living in a world in which one 222 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: you're trying to make it as either an actor or 223 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: a writer, and two trying to figure out, okay, do 224 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: I need to get some kind of straight job in 225 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: order to get benefits. You're taking a risk in your 226 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: life just going out of the house without health insurance 227 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: and trying to get it one. Two the amount of 228 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: A large part of this struggle is about the amount 229 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: of free work that goes on in this industry, whether 230 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: it's actors spending their own money and time to send 231 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: in a self tape, which you know, part of the 232 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: complaints that actors have is these self tapes are becoming 233 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: more and more intricate with like lighting and like scenes, 234 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: and now it's like not everybody has the resources to 235 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: do this. All of which is to say actors and 236 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: writers take on significant risk. It's not capital risk in 237 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: the same way that the studios do, but they take 238 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: on plenty of risk, and they should absolutely share in 239 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: the success of a project when it succeeds. 240 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, completely. And also I mean that you talk about 241 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 3: self tapes. I also saw that there's been a movement 242 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 3: for people to get paid for auditions because legally and 243 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 3: contractually you are supposed to be paid for an audition already, 244 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 3: but that hasn't been happening for a really long time. 245 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 3: So even these base protections that you would hope these 246 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: actors are getting for this alleged small investment of time 247 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 3: that they're giving. 248 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 2: The studios haven't been paying them anyway. 249 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 4: That's right. 250 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: Well, the strike continues and we'll be covering here on 251 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: Extra Vision up next. Previously on. 252 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: It was SDCC just gone, our first SDCC since Twilight 253 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 3: took over hall H and invented hall H culture. That 254 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: there hasn't been a major studio presence inside the convention 255 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 3: because I will say, when you go to San Diego, 256 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 3: they always have activations, they have things that people can 257 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 3: do without tickets. You can sign up online, and there 258 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: were still a few of those. I believe FX turned up. 259 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 3: I believe Hulu turned up with that kind of stuff. 260 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 3: But inside there were no major hall H panels. There 261 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 3: was no DC movies, there were no Marvel movies. There 262 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: weren't even any big TV panels aside from a couple 263 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: of little premieres where there wasn't any talent apart from 264 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 3: maybe a director who was able to turn up. But 265 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 3: I have to say San Diego was bumping. It was 266 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,239 Speaker 3: incredibly busy. Tiffany Babb, who's an incredible pop culture journalist 267 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: and comic book journalist at pop Verse did a great 268 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 3: write up about how she spoke to lots of different retailers. 269 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: Yeah I read that, Yeah great, like Silver Sprocket, one 270 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 3: of our favorite indie publishers. They said they had their 271 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 3: biggest preview night ever, and preview nights usually a pretty 272 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: quiet night, mostly. 273 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: For industry folks. 274 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 3: I spoke to multiple different exhibitors who said it was 275 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 3: the biggest year they'd had. Qu Bok was also quoted 276 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 3: in pop Verse, So basically what happened. 277 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 4: Funk oh, I believe historic. 278 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: Also the Marvel booth. 279 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 3: They had like a Marvel merch booth there that apparently 280 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 3: did really really well. Basically what happened was because people 281 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: were not in the whole h Q lines and there 282 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: were not six rounds and people they were. They were 283 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: on the show floor, and you know what I have 284 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 3: to say, they were also in the panel rooms. I 285 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 3: did three panels, all of which were busier than most 286 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: panels I've ever done, but the one that really stuck 287 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 3: out to me, and I think this is representative of 288 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: a lot of people's experience. I did a panel with 289 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: Webtoon called a Golden Age for Women in Comics and 290 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 3: the idea is was to highlight that women have always 291 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: been making comics, but they've just been raised from the 292 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 3: narrative and now thanks to webtoon, thanks to incredible indie 293 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: publishers like Black Jerse Press. The publisher Jimmie Larrouser was 294 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 3: on the panel, women are being recognized for making comics 295 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: even though they've always been here. That is the kind 296 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: of panel I've done at San Diego before about like 297 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: disability or about different aspects of representation. You get an 298 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 3: eager crowd, but not a necessarily packed room, right. Those 299 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 3: rooms can hold like two three hundred people. Our Golden 300 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: Ajor Women in Comics panel, which did feature Rachel Smythe 301 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 3: who makes Laura Lympus, who is arguably one of the 302 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: most famous cartoonists in the world, so I'm giving her 303 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: credit for how many people came as well. But that 304 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 3: was a one in, one out panel. It was standing 305 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 3: room only and they had a Q outside. 306 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: To let people in. 307 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 3: And I started to hear that other people there was 308 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 3: a Queer Horror panel and that was the same thing 309 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: where they had a Q outside. So what happened with 310 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 3: haul h not being there is it drove people into 311 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: the show floor. It drove people into the convention center, 312 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 3: and the coolest thing is people. 313 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: Just were excited. The vibes were great. 314 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 3: I didn't see anyone who was disappointed or who wasn't 315 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 3: prepared for the fact this was going to be comics focused, 316 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 3: and it was just a really wonderful experience. Also, I 317 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: will say there was a lot of great strike support. 318 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: There was lots of cosplayers with strike signs. Actually, like 319 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 3: Duncan Crabtree Island came on Saturday to speak on a 320 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: panel about AI and voice acting and kind of advocate 321 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 3: for the voice actors, and there were people giving I know, 322 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 3: Danny Fernandez, one of our friends of the Pods, she 323 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 3: was giving out a lot of strike pins. And one 324 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 3: of the coolest things was they had these signs that 325 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 3: were like SAG signs, and they said support the strike, 326 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 3: carry this sign, and people would just hand them off 327 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 3: to each other, so you'd see like Deadpool carrying it, 328 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 3: and you'd see and it really kind of opened my 329 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 3: eyes to the fact we obviously care about this stuff, 330 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 3: like deeply, not just because we're involved in it, but 331 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 3: because it's something. 332 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: That we care about. 333 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 3: We care about it because we love comics. We care 334 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 3: about it because we love TV and movies. We want 335 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 3: people to get paid. I don't think the studios realize 336 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: how widespread that mentality is. That you can have a 337 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 3: kid in a comics accurate Deadpool cosplay because there was 338 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: a lot of comic accurate cosplay, because people didn't want 339 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: to do movie cosplay because they felt like they were 340 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 3: supporting Struck studios. It was really heartening, not only to 341 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 3: see the love for comics, but also to see people 342 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 3: recognizing that they understood why this SDCC was different. It 343 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: was really cool, and I would say if I was 344 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 3: in charge of SDCC, I'd be having very different meetings 345 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 3: with the studios next year, like how can you help 346 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 3: us if you want this platform, we don't need it, 347 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 3: But if you want the platform of being on hall Ah, 348 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 3: how much are you going to invest in the convention? 349 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: How much can we use this your resources to make 350 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 3: this an even better place for comics, for the museum, 351 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: for artists who can't afford an artists Alli table. Because 352 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 3: the truth is hall H not being there did not 353 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 3: impact how that show was aside from positively for smaller 354 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 3: press and artists ali people who felt like they especially 355 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 3: by the end of the weekend. I heard that Saturday 356 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 3: and Sunday, it was almost like on the first two 357 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 3: days folks were walking around kind of being like, Okay, 358 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 3: I've never really been on the show floor. What am 359 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 3: I going to buy? Like budgeting out you kind of do. 360 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 3: And apparently Saturday and Sunday those sales just went absolutely crazy. 361 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: That's great, that's great, and it's you know, it's interesting. 362 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: Now I'm kind of reflecting on the fact that certainly 363 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: in the hall H era, I have never never once 364 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: heard someone talk about the kind of hall Ah culture 365 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: and immense lines and what it takes to get in 366 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: there with any kind of warmth. 367 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 3: No, you know, it's like I don't want to queue 368 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 3: out that for two nights. 369 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is only complaints about the slow, whole rigamarole 370 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: of getting through that. And it's nice to see that 371 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: there was almost like a turn of the clock back 372 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: moment of uh, this the energy and the community is 373 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: still here. It's not going anywhere. And to your point, 374 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: maybe there is a conversation about like what the relationship 375 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: will be in the future between the studios in comic Con, 376 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: and hopefully that conversation can make the experience of comic 377 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: Con kind of just better. 378 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you make a great point, because I think 379 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 3: something that was really special. So Dorian Parks is really 380 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 3: great who's a host and a kind of journalist in 381 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 3: the same space to us. He moderated the Spider Man 382 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 3: two panel, which was about the video game, right. But 383 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 3: what was really interesting was so many it was in 384 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 3: hallh and so many people who would never have got 385 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 3: to experience hall Ah got to experience it because that 386 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 3: wasn't necessarily the. 387 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: Two day wait. So I think there's a lot of 388 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 2: lessons to be learned. 389 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 3: And the thing that made me the happiest was my 390 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 3: worst case scenario was like people won't come, or they 391 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 3: will come and they'll be really mad, and it will 392 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: affect the people who've invested thousands of dollars, who are 393 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 3: indy cartoonists, who know that this is the time that 394 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 3: they can make they can make the bag that we 395 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 3: can that can be the one show you do that 396 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: really makes you money. And it turns out it was 397 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 3: the complete opposite. And it was just an absolute delight 398 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 3: to be there. And because people were on the show 399 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 3: floor and there weren't Hallah lines, San. 400 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 2: Diego was actually p a chill to walk around. So yeah, 401 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 2: it was. 402 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 3: It was overall just wonderful, and I'm hoping that we 403 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 3: learn a lot of great lessons and kind of see 404 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 3: them come into play more as we go. 405 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: Ahead. 406 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: Up next, let's quickly talk about the insane Barbenheimer Weekend. 407 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 3: Wild. 408 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so barbon Heimer Weekend has come and gone. Barbie 409 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: is currently at one hundred and sixty plus million and climbing. 410 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: Oppenheimer as well as around eighty million ish and climbing. 411 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: Both movies are handily beating their projections, and the movies 412 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: are back. 413 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 4: Folks. 414 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: Here's my manager, Kenny, who you know has been endlessly 415 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: roasting me because I was not able to get into 416 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: eger movie. 417 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 4: I was not I try, I really tried. 418 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: My Usually my usual move is Friday morning or Saturday 419 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: or Sunday morning, I'll take in a Matt nae whatever 420 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: the new nostalgia, nice Matt wonderful matinee for whatever the 421 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: new movie is. I tried every movie time for both movies, 422 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: and there was like nothing except for like the front 423 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: row seats at at Imax, where you're sitting basically. 424 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: You can see one foot of the screen. 425 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: And you're my fucking vertebrae will snap in half because 426 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: like my head is completely like looking up at the 427 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: top of the screen, and I just couldn't do it. 428 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: But two huge movies obviously a marketing bonanza and one 429 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: of those things a counterprogramming coup in which both projects 430 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: have been burnished by this entire scheme, part of which 431 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: is just like the overall pettiness of Warner Brothers. So 432 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that has happened in 433 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: the past that led up to this is Christopher Nolan, 434 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: among many filmmakers, was upset with Warner Brothers move to 435 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: take movies out of theaters, only give them a short 436 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: run in theaters and then put them right on Max. 437 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 3: Right. 438 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: He's a lover of movies. He wants movies to be 439 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: seen in the movie theater, and evedn't like that, so 440 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: he left his longtime home Warner Brothers, and as a 441 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: kind of like pettiness, I guess they were like, oh, yeah, well, 442 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna have our movie a Barbie Open opposite Oppenheimer 443 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: when you do Oppenheimer at your new place. And guess 444 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: what happened. Both movies are succeeding through this because the 445 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: Barbenheimer phenomenon has become a thing. 446 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's I read a really interesting interview 447 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: with like the head of global marketing from Warner Brothers, 448 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 3: and it used sometimes I'd never really heard of. So 449 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 3: there's like, you know, obviously paid advertising, right, which is 450 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 3: paid marketing, which I have to say, Warner Brothers did 451 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: an unbelievable job of Like they did the weirdest, coolest shit, 452 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 3: like the they did an architectural Digest video tour of 453 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: the Malibu dream. 454 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: Hat like Barbie Dreamhouse, Like they. 455 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 3: Just did really weird stuff that kind of hit in 456 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 3: the ship post era of the Internet that we're really in. 457 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 3: But he also talked about earned marketing, and that's essentially 458 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: what Barbenheimer comes under the umbrella of which is an 459 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 3: organic Internet like fun like people getting excited. And I mean, 460 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 3: this is one of those wild moments where like neither 461 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 3: of the studios saw this coming. Warner Brothers had it 462 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 3: Barbie tracking, They had Barbie tracking at seventy five mil, 463 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 3: and Oppenheimer was tracking for Universal at. 464 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: Like fifty milt. 465 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 3: These movies made five hundred million dollars globally over this week. 466 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 2: I was half a billion dollars. 467 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 3: That doesn't exist without all the people online who made memes. 468 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 3: It doesn't exist with people like without people like super 469 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 3: Yuky making t shirts in the Barbie font that say 470 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 3: do you guys ever think about dying? It doesn't exist 471 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 3: without it. Incredible artists who made Barbenheimer mash up posters, 472 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 3: like one of our Discord fans and friends, like Rodrigo. 473 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 3: He runs this film magazine called Layered Butter, and they 474 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 3: did a Barbenheimer poster that went totally viral and it's 475 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: now basically used as almost as if it was an 476 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 3: original official piece of art that both the studios made. 477 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: They didn't. 478 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 3: Neither of them could ever have imagined that these two 479 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 3: ridiculously juxtaposed movies would create this fandom. But I also 480 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 3: think that that comes from Nolan being an auta, Gerwig 481 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 3: being an auta. Yeah, and this kind of hilarious dichotomy 482 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 3: between like this serious talkie three hour biopic which I 483 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 3: always should never have been able to make eighty million, 484 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 3: that's a superhero movie cat truly insane. 485 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 2: And then Barbie Witz should be. 486 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 3: A flop that later finds a cult following, kind of 487 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 3: like you Know Gem and the you Know Gem and 488 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 3: the Hologram. 489 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: So that has found less of. 490 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 3: A cult following, but something like Josie and the Pussycats, right, 491 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 3: like that's kind of where people expected Barbie to land. 492 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 3: So Barbie is now the biggest opening weekend of the year, 493 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 3: beating Super Mario, which by the way, had a ridiculous 494 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 3: opening weekend, also beating Guardians of the Galaxy one three also 495 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 3: now the biggest opening weekend ever for a female director, 496 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 3: beating both Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, so beating two 497 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 3: superhero movies. Also in the international box office, Barbie almost 498 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 3: made two hundred million dollars over this weekend. And I 499 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 3: have yet to see Barbie because try seeing that in 500 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 3: San Diego on SDCC weekend. People were not busy at 501 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 3: SDCC and today obviously bargain day at AMC. Good tip 502 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 3: there if you want to save some money seven dollars. 503 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: A team of I looked going with friends from who 504 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 3: work in the OC, and I looked from every theater 505 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 3: from like Irvine down to la and it was almost 506 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 3: impossible to find a ticket that was not in the 507 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 3: front like three rows. Like this movie's going to keep 508 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 3: making money. The drop for Barbie from Saturday to Sunday 509 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: was nine percent, which is basically unheard of, and Oppenheimer's 510 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 3: was also really low by my understanding. So I think 511 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 3: that the Barbenheimer weekend is over, but the Barbenheimer summer 512 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 3: is not over. Like sorry to the Haunted Mansion, but 513 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 3: you're not touching either of these movies this weekend. 514 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: You know, you just know that right now there is 515 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: an entire floor of people, yeah, who work for like 516 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: Apple Studios marketing, who are trying to figure out who 517 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: Napoleon's Barbie is exactly. 518 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 3: This is what I'm saying, we too, How upset do 519 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 3: you think every studio is right now that they can't 520 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 3: be on the phone to like every screenwriter and every 521 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 3: director being like, so do you want to do like 522 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 3: Street Sharks? 523 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 4: Is it like the way? 524 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: Can you think of like an A twenty four take 525 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: on like Street Sharks? Those meetings would be happening if 526 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 3: the strike was not on, And I know they're all 527 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 3: sitting there stewing in their juices, writing things like Gritty 528 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 3: Polly Pocket like trying to find ways that they can 529 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 3: do this. I love that what is Napoleon is Barbie? 530 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: We can we Russian Indie, Carmen san Diego. 531 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 3: You know, I feel like those conversations are happening, and 532 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 3: you know, this is one of those things where the 533 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 3: real truth is. 534 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: Is there really a lesson here? 535 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 3: It's hard to know because counter programming has always worked. 536 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 2: This is organic. You can't really replicate it. 537 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 3: But the lesson that studios are gonna learn is like 538 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 3: toy movies, but with like an auto director and also 539 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 3: like I guess, biopics can make a lot of money 540 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 3: now if they're programmed against something like that. 541 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: So, yeah, I did see. 542 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 3: I don't think it was a coincidence that yesterday they 543 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 3: announced that Ryan Reynolds is rebooting Biker Mice from Mars. 544 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 2: So I think we're gonna see that. 545 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 3: What we've been seeing as the IP rush for comics, 546 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 3: I think we're gonna see that moving back to toys, 547 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 3: which it hasn't been for quite a long time. 548 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 2: So that'll be interesting. 549 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 3: I'm sure we're gonna get many terrible toy movies, but 550 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: maybe some good ones too. Yeah. 551 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: I made listen. T re Formers is out here. G 552 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: I Joe has been out here, Lego has been out here. 553 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: The toy movies have been doing well. 554 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: It'll be interesting, but this is the first one that's coming. 555 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 4: This is a culture. Culture. 556 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 3: This isn't the top fourth opening weekend of all time, 557 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: only beaten by the Force, Awakens, Infinity War and Ending Game. 558 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: So now toys are in that. They're in that superhero. 559 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 3: Movie space and it beat Transformers. Dark of the Moon 560 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 3: is the biggest movie based on a toy. So yeah, 561 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 3: toy movies are back, baby for. 562 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 2: Better or for us? 563 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: Up next to our interview with David Escort. 564 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Hive Mind, where we explore topics with 565 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 3: an expert guest. Today, we're thrilled to welcome writer, showrunner, 566 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 3: and director David Eskoya to discuss his career, creative process, 567 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: and foundation. 568 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 4: David, thanks for joining us. 569 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 5: My pleasure. I'm I'm a fan and I was happy 570 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 5: to return the favor because you co hosts that other 571 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 5: podcast you and I did, and it is. 572 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 4: A delight to do it. So how is your summer going? 573 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 5: Well? You know, I was I was filming something and 574 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 5: we got shut down because of SAG and I was 575 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 5: over in Europe and we got shut down early Saturday morning, 576 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 5: and then I booked a flight on my phone right 577 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 5: there and went back to my hotel and packed. Had 578 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 5: got on a plane about five hours later, and then 579 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 5: I picketed in La yesterday in ninety five degree. But 580 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 5: I'm look, it's that it's a crazy, once in a 581 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 5: lifetime situation and completely justifiable. But I'm also you know, 582 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 5: after spending the bulk of my last four years over 583 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 5: in Europe, I'm really grateful to have this time with 584 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 5: my family and not during a pandemic. So that's this 585 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 5: over lining for me. 586 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, tell it. 587 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: Could you tell us about that? Obviously, this this strike 588 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: is a is another bit of complexity and challenge on 589 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: top of everything that's and it impacts everyone industry wide. 590 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 4: But like what the show that. 591 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: You were making is so grand and complicated. You just 592 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: mentioned that you were in Europe for a lot of 593 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Tell us about some of 594 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: the challenges that you went through producing that. 595 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 5: I mean, it foundations the most complicated project I've ever 596 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 5: worked on. And don't we don't film it in sort 597 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 5: of a volume of VFX box like some of the 598 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 5: shows out there. We film more than half the show 599 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 5: on location. In season one filmed in six different countries. 600 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 5: I think season two filmed in five different countries. We 601 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 5: do what we call crossboarding, meeting like the schedule gets 602 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 5: we don't film one episode and then another. Everything gets 603 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 5: put in a blender. It's incredibly difficult, and it would 604 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 5: have been difficult even without a pandemic and multiple strikes. 605 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 5: But it's it's just we just keep you know, we 606 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 5: had the initial lockdown and then season two lockdown wasn't happening. 607 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 5: But we actually had many more delays because of COVID 608 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 5: than in season one because in season one everyone was 609 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 5: in a bubble, so called bubble. We would take over 610 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 5: hotels and we would charter flights and it's just like 611 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 5: the hits keep coming and coming and coming and coming, 612 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 5: and it's it's awesome. It's crazy because it's the shows 613 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 5: so weildly ambitious and and I'm so grateful to have 614 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 5: made the first two seasons. But all of the changes, 615 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 5: the seismic changes that are happening in your industry are like, 616 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 5: I worry there the very things that will make a 617 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 5: show like ours not possible anymore. 618 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 3: So who knows, you know, Yeah, I mean there's lots 619 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 3: of things that from basically from the very inception of 620 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 3: adapting foundation, you're in a situation where it's going to 621 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 3: be a challenge because there's many things over the years 622 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 3: that have been called unfilmable, but this is probably like 623 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 3: one of the most unfilmable US unfilmable things. So like, 624 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 3: what was the origin of you wanting to adapt it 625 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 3: or what was your origin with Asmov's foundation and kind 626 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 3: of how this came to become a TV show? 627 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 5: Okay, I'll answer that, but I I should qualify I'm 628 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 5: speaking to you in the capacity as a director, and 629 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 5: because I've directed episodes two and three of the show, 630 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 5: and not only am I allowed to promote in that capacity, 631 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 5: I've been encouraged to promote by one of the two 632 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 5: guilds I'm involved in. But what was it like? I mean, 633 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 5: I was given the book by myn'er do well father 634 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 5: when he was thirteen or I was thirteen, not him, 635 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 5: he was thirteen. He said, this is the greatest science 636 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 5: fiction book of all time. You should read it, And 637 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 5: I didn't read it because I was angry at him. 638 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 5: And I think I read it in my twenty my twenties, 639 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 5: and I got some of it, didn't understand what the 640 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 5: big deal was. We read it in my thirties and 641 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 5: then over the years because for the first two decades 642 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 5: of my career is writing almost exclusively features. I was 643 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 5: offered the opportunity to adapt it a couple of times, 644 00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 5: once with Warner Brothers and once with Sony. Even then 645 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 5: I just thought, oh, people were thinking, oh, we want 646 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 5: to do a trilogy of films, and I just didn't 647 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 5: think it was possible to condense all of that. It's 648 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 5: anthological in nature. A lot of the stuff's been strip mined, 649 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 5: you know, by Star Wars and Dune, and how do 650 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 5: you make it new again? And so I said no 651 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 5: a couple of times, and over the years, just like everyone, 652 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 5: i'd hear, oh, this person or that person is trying 653 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 5: to adapt it. And also I'm not sure I was 654 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 5: a sophisticated enough writer to have adapted it earlier on 655 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 5: in my career. But then maybe I don't know. Five 656 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 5: years ago, streaming had started and people were suddenly tackling 657 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 5: these big novelistic projects and saying, okay, now you've got 658 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 5: at least ten hours or twenty or thirty. And then 659 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 5: it seemed like it might be possible. And I'd had 660 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,439 Speaker 5: enough weighty adaptations under my belt to be crazy enough 661 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 5: to try. But what was crazy was I was I 662 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 5: was waiting into adapting foundation at the same time, I 663 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 5: was waiting into adapting Sandman, but another famous lady, and 664 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 5: I just thought it was just so surreal. And I 665 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 5: flirted with Sandman for more than a decade as well, 666 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 5: and it was they both sort of came together at 667 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 5: the exact same time. And then it just was a race. 668 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 5: I was meant to run either one of them, and 669 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 5: it was just a racist to which one was going 670 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 5: to be Greenland first and Foundation was so then after 671 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 5: working the initial adaptation with Neil and then Alan Heimbury, 672 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 5: allen Heimberg took over that. But I don't know did 673 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 5: that answer your question? I got lost in my answer, 674 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 5: by the way. I heard you Rosie describe me as 675 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 5: a friend of the pod on one of your podcasts 676 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 5: the other day, and I'm I'm honored to be considered 677 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 5: a friend of the problem, although you and I have 678 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 5: never spoken prior to this. 679 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 2: So you know what Jason's friends my friends friends. 680 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 4: Yeah. 681 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned that you didn't think that maybe you 682 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 1: were a sophisticated enough writer. 683 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 4: Yeah when you first. 684 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 5: Some people would argue, I'm still. 685 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: Not, by the way, but what do you what what 686 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: is it about your writing evolution that you think is 687 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: it made you able to take on that project at 688 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: that particular time. 689 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 4: What it changed, what you learned? 690 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 5: I think that you know, I guess over my career 691 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 5: I started to become the sort of one of the 692 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 5: go to guys to adapt to take on like weighty 693 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 5: IP or complicated IP, and and I just remember I 694 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 5: think one of the things that changed was when Kris 695 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 5: Nolan and I were working on Batman Begins, and we 696 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 5: we had this very methodical approach to Batman in which 697 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 5: we would try to we would just before we came 698 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 5: up with a story, we spent weeks just talking about 699 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 5: what makes Batman Batman and so writing lists of the 700 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 5: things that we felt were like essential Batman tropes and 701 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 5: then things that don't make Batman Batman. And then this 702 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 5: was crazy at the time, but we flew to New 703 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 5: York and we met with all the editors of DC 704 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 5: for three days and we asked them the same questions 705 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 5: and they said, no one in all the decades prior 706 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 5: to that had ever even asked d C what made 707 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 5: Batman Batman? And we just thought it was a no 708 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 5: brainer to do it. And so so then we before 709 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 5: we even came up with the story, we just thought, Okay, 710 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 5: have we identified the core DNA of this thing, do 711 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 5: we have it right? And the editors at d C, 712 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 5: you know, Paul Levitt and people like that. At the time, 713 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 5: even Neil Adams, who we talked to, felt that we 714 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 5: had gotten it right, and then we started building our story. 715 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 5: And so what's amazing to me is how many people 716 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 5: don't do that. And so that is an approach that 717 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 5: I've just applied and everything I've worked on over the 718 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 5: last two decades is just try to figure out, can I, 719 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 5: you know, what makes this thing unique? And can I 720 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 5: tell a story that doesn't betray those elements? And it 721 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 5: sounds simple, but it's amazing. You know, I've talked about 722 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 5: this before, but like I had this feeling like with 723 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 5: a lot of superhero adaptations that they'll think about, Okay, 724 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 5: what villain are we going to use and then build 725 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 5: a story around it, as opposed to figuring out what 726 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 5: makes you know, you know, superhero X superhero X and 727 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 5: then figuring out what's the right villain to tell that story. 728 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 5: So Chris and I did not decide we were going 729 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,919 Speaker 5: to start with rajah Ghul or the Scarecrow. We were 730 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 5: going to tell this story about Batman overcoming his fears 731 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 5: or bris Wa and overcoming us fears and having all 732 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 5: these daddy issues, and so fear led to Scarecrow, and 733 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 5: daddy issues led to Raja goal was you know, one 734 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 5: of the only villains. Yeah, that was like more parental 735 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 5: and so I guess the approach was just very holistic 736 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 5: in that way. And we applied the same things to Salman. 737 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 5: And in the case of sam Man, we had gaming 738 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 5: with us and and Alan and I said, we spent 739 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 5: like three or four days just saying, Okay, you know 740 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 5: what makes sam Man Samman? What do you think? And 741 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 5: I did something similar with Robin Asmav Isaac's daughter on Foundation. 742 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I was gonna ask, that's really interesting that 743 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 3: you brought out because I feel like, often as comic 744 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 3: book fans, people who love this stuff, comics have been 745 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 3: seen since you know, they first in the eighteen hundreds 746 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 3: when it was strip comics or whatever, to you know, 747 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 3: the Worthm Trials, they're seen as like low brow and 748 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 3: disposable that for kids, you know, that's still something people see. 749 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 3: So it's kind of incredible to you talking about how 750 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 3: adapting comics taught you how to adapt these kind of 751 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 3: huge epic sci fi stories for prestige. Were there any 752 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 3: other kind of things that you learned from adapting so 753 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 3: many superho stories and comic books that helped you when 754 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,959 Speaker 3: it came to adapting something like this that takes place 755 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 3: over thousands of years, the way that comics kind of 756 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 3: have that modern mythology of going over many many centuries. 757 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 5: Do you think, Yeah, I do think that it's funny 758 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 5: if you go to classic comic book storytelling, right, I 759 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 5: think comic books are the closest to serialized TV storytelling 760 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 5: is almost any other art form, right, because you've got 761 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 5: the individual episodes which are akin to the individual issues, 762 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 5: and then you've got these arcs which would be akin 763 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 5: to like the season, and then you've got like the 764 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 5: super arc, right, you know. Yeah, And so because I 765 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 5: spent so much Si'm reading comics as a kid, that's 766 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 5: that's just the way structurally, I think. So with regards 767 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 5: to sam Man and Foundation, we definitely think about, Okay, 768 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 5: this is a serialized story, but is each episode? Can 769 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 5: each episode be a complete meal? And then how does 770 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,760 Speaker 5: it fit within the season, and is there a beginning 771 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 5: and middle and end to the season, And then how 772 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 5: does it fit with a superstory, and that's definitely something 773 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 5: I picked up from, you know, Dennie O'Neill or Chris 774 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 5: Claremont or you know, Frank Miller or something like that. 775 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: Can I ask you about the there anything, Jason. 776 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 5: We'll see whether or not. 777 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: Well, since we're on the subject of comics, A few 778 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: years ago a letter that you wrote to editor and 779 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: writer at Marvel, Mark Runwald, who's then in charge of 780 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: the Captain America book, emerged and it was you basically, uh, 781 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 1: giving notes on on a particular storyline and the challenges 782 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: the character faced in that particular era mid eighties, you know, 783 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: Reagan and the White House. Did you always take comics 784 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: that seriously? And were you was it in your mind 785 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: to be a writer at that point, because surely, I 786 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: mean it's not very many people write a like seven 787 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: hundred word letter to the editor to Marvel Comics. 788 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 5: Yes, and yes, Tom those questions. I mean. I also 789 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,720 Speaker 5: have a letter in the Alan Moore run of swamp 790 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 5: Thing American Gothic, which y, yeah, in which I incorrectly 791 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,959 Speaker 5: guessed at what was behind like all the various sub 792 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 5: monsters that were growing out a swamping. But yeah, I've 793 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 5: probably got about I mean, I will say this, every 794 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 5: letter I wrote up printed, I probably have about seven. 795 00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 3: Wow. 796 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 2: Wow, that's a solid run. 797 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, but I was I was, you know, growing 798 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 5: up in Michigan going to my local comic book store, 799 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 5: and and I I, you know, I don't know, from 800 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 5: the time I was about fourth or fifth grade, I 801 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 5: thought about, you know, right, becoming a comic book writer 802 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 5: first and foremost. And the idea that I would become 803 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 5: a screenwriter was just crazy. We didn't know anything anyone 804 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 5: in Hollywood, but comic writer felt like attainable possibly, And yeah, 805 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 5: I revered them. I just thought because I was coming 806 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 5: up in the you know, teen Titans when that when 807 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 5: that started, and I was I was reading you know, 808 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 5: Burn and Claremont's uncunning X Men while that art was 809 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 5: happening like in real time, and it was when it 810 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 5: was I think it was bi monthly, and that was 811 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 5: just blowing my mind. That was that was one of 812 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 5: the first ones that really blew my mid mine was 813 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 5: what was happening with X Men? And I just thought 814 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 5: it was amazing. 815 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I will say there is a grand tradition 816 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 3: one of my favorite things. I have a lot of 817 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 3: back issues and one of my favorite things to do 818 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 3: is read the letters page, because you actually see a 819 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 3: lot of letters from people who had gone to write comics. 820 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 4: For sure, Martin. 821 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 3: You can go in there and you will find letters 822 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 3: from like big name people, and you're like. 823 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:25,800 Speaker 2: Okay, you are the fans. 824 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,839 Speaker 3: So what was it like to then go from being 825 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 3: one of those fans and then continue that tradition of 826 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 3: actually getting to write comics. 827 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 5: Well, the funny thing is I wrote movies before I 828 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 5: wrote comics. Like a lot of people, yeah yeah, and 829 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 5: they go. And then I was so I had already 830 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 5: you know, it was making a healthy living. I'd already 831 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 5: had Blade come out. And then randomly I was introduced 832 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,839 Speaker 5: to James Robinson, who was on the Starman Run at 833 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 5: the time, and and we met and we had dinner 834 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 5: one night, and he confessed to me that he had 835 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 5: writer's block and he was trying to figure out where 836 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,760 Speaker 5: to go and what to do. And I started pitching 837 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 5: some ideas for him and he said, that's a really 838 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 5: good idea. Do you mind if I use that? I said, no, 839 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 5: go ahead, And then we had dinner a couple weeks 840 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 5: later and he said, you got any more ideas? And 841 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 5: then he just said, do you want to start co 842 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,399 Speaker 5: plotting it with me? Because I feel bad I'm using 843 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 5: so many of these ideas. And so then I did, 844 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,800 Speaker 5: and I co plotted it with him for a while, 845 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 5: and then he said, hey, DC wants to revive the 846 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 5: Justice Society. Do you want to just co write it 847 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 5: with me? And I said, sure, that sounds great, and 848 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 5: irony there was. James bailed in the second issue. His 849 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 5: name is still on like like five more issues, but 850 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 5: he bailed. He had this sort of crisis of conscience 851 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 5: and I literally I'd only written like two full scripts 852 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 5: and these he said, well, do you want to keep writing? 853 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 5: We like it? And I said sure, sure, but I 854 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 5: need help. And so here's what's really crazy at the 855 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 5: time was I was also friendly with Geoff Johns, who 856 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,359 Speaker 5: had just written I think he was still like Richard 857 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,399 Speaker 5: Donner's assistant and had just written like I don't even 858 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 5: know if Stargirl had come out, but he'd like written 859 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 5: a proposal for something. And I said, hey, Jeff, do 860 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 5: you want to write this with me? And DC wouldn't. 861 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:33,839 Speaker 5: I had like really pressure them to approve him to change. 862 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 5: But Jeff started on JSA with me as like the 863 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,400 Speaker 5: second issue, and then obviously he became Geoff John's, you know, 864 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 5: with a capital G and a capital J. But I 865 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,359 Speaker 5: backed into comics and you know, just a really weird way, 866 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 5: and then, you know, we kept it up for about 867 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 5: four years and and then it became too unwilly for me. 868 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 5: But that was I loved doing it. I would still 869 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 5: go back and write comic at some point. I really 870 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 5: really enjoyed doing it. I didn't do the Marvel method 871 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 5: though we wrote full script. 872 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, bad to do it in the full part way. 873 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 4: So how did you break into screenwriting? Then? 874 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,880 Speaker 1: You know, I remember I've told you this story before, 875 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 1: but in ninety eight I worked in a movie theater. 876 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: So I said, every single movie that came out in 877 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 1: ninety every single movie that came out that year I 878 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,360 Speaker 1: saw in the theaters, including Blade and Dark City. 879 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 5: To which movie. 880 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 2: Crazy? 881 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 4: So how did how did that happen? 882 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 5: I broke in two movies. Well, basically, the short version 883 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 5: is I didn't know anyone in Hollywood couldn't figure out 884 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 5: how to make a path into writing. So I was 885 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 5: going to become a cop in Michigan. I was going 886 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 5: to become a homicide detective. I was going to get 887 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 5: a degree in police administration go to Michigan State University. 888 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,479 Speaker 5: And then my high school teachers said, oh my god, 889 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 5: you can't do that. You got to write, which I 890 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,680 Speaker 5: wanted to, but I had a single mom. We didn't 891 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,760 Speaker 5: have much money, and they kind of staged in an intervention. 892 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,799 Speaker 5: They came over to our house for coffee and said you. 893 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,879 Speaker 5: They suggested I applied to USC screenwriting, and my mom 894 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,920 Speaker 5: said we cannot afford it, and they said, just we 895 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 5: think he can get in and just get scholarships and whatnot. 896 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,680 Speaker 5: And so we had enough money with financial aid for 897 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 5: me to attend one semester. Wow, and I got in 898 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 5: and this was an undergraduate degree. And then every semester 899 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,920 Speaker 5: was sketchy. It's like whether or not I could keep going. 900 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,040 Speaker 5: So I worked two or three jobs and I would 901 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,400 Speaker 5: apply for all these grants. But I made it and 902 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 5: I busted my ass, and I in the program. You 903 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 5: were meant to come out with one screenplay, and I 904 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 5: had three by the time I was done. And in 905 00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 5: my last semester, I thought, oh, I'm going to get 906 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 5: an agent. And I remember reading about this particular a 907 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,359 Speaker 5: agent who'd become an agent. I believe at ICEM at 908 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 5: the time, which is one of the Yeah, I think 909 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,360 Speaker 5: they're defunct now right. 910 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 4: No, no longer with it. 911 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, they'd been absorbed by one of the other mega agencies. 912 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:17,200 Speaker 5: And I read about this guy who had he'd gone 913 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 5: through Berkeley in like two and a half years and 914 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 5: become an agent at twenty three, and I thought, oh, 915 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 5: that guy seems like a real, you know, firecracker. I'm 916 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 5: going to I'm going to have that guy be my agent. 917 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 5: So I started cold calling his office from my dorm 918 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 5: room and I called I think it was forty two 919 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,760 Speaker 5: business days, but I would say, hey, this is David Goyer. 920 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 5: You know he talked to so and so. Finally, on 921 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 5: like the forty second day, it became a joke. I 922 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,320 Speaker 5: was just but I was in my dorm room. I 923 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 5: was like, what do I want? Yeah, And finally the 924 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,480 Speaker 5: assistant he jumps on the line and says, who the 925 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 5: fuck are you and why you keep calling me? And 926 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,840 Speaker 5: I realized I forgot like thirty seconds, and I said, listen, 927 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,200 Speaker 5: I'm about to graduate USC film School. I'm going to 928 00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,360 Speaker 5: be a giant filmmaker one day. You should represent me. 929 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 5: You're going to kick yourself if you don't. And there 930 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,640 Speaker 5: was this pause and he said, Okay, send me your script, 931 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,239 Speaker 5: but don't fucking call me every day. It's going to 932 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,920 Speaker 5: take me a while. And by the way, I had, 933 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 5: I had nothing to lose. I was in my dorm 934 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:26,520 Speaker 5: room in my underwear and so and I waited two weeks, 935 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,240 Speaker 5: and then I started calling him again and for another 936 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,839 Speaker 5: couple of weeks. Finally he answered, and he said, I'm 937 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 5: going to sign you. So I got an agent before 938 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 5: I even graduated. And but what was interesting is he 939 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 5: said in your script's really good. But I decided I 940 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 5: was going to sign you even before I read it. 941 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 5: And I said why, And he's because you were so 942 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 5: damned tenacious that I just thought this kid's going to succeed. 943 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,000 Speaker 5: And then I graduated and I got a job as 944 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 5: a production assistant on a studio and it was my 945 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 5: job to deliver mail ord on the lot and also 946 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,759 Speaker 5: snacks like I had like a hand card with, you know, 947 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 5: And and I did that for about four months. And 948 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,520 Speaker 5: at the time he said, I thought it was gonna 949 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,760 Speaker 5: write funny, sort of like American Werewolf in London movies, 950 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,879 Speaker 5: And he said, can you write I think Diehard had 951 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:23,120 Speaker 5: just come out, and he said, can you write an 952 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 5: action movie? And so I studied some and I wrote one, 953 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,879 Speaker 5: and after four months he said, I think I can. 954 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 5: I can sell this, and like two days later he 955 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,560 Speaker 5: sold it and he sold us to MGM, and he 956 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 5: sold it for more than ten times what I was 957 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,440 Speaker 5: making as my yearly salary as a PA. And he 958 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:49,959 Speaker 5: sold it to Jean Claude van dam And who had 959 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 5: just come out with Cyborg. And I hadn't watched any 960 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,440 Speaker 5: movies and there I remember that this. He called me 961 00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 5: at work, this before cell phones, and he said, Jean 962 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,560 Speaker 5: Claude Vandam wants to buy your script. Do you know who? 963 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:02,960 Speaker 3: No? 964 00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,719 Speaker 5: And and I could hear. I could hear him like 965 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,279 Speaker 5: unfolding the newspaper, and he said, there's a there's a 966 00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,640 Speaker 5: there's a show at like one forty five at the 967 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 5: Chinese Theater on Hollywood Boulevard. Go see it and meet 968 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 5: with him at like five o'clock. So I feigned sickness. 969 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,520 Speaker 5: I saw this movie, which is terrible. Then then I 970 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 5: met with them, and I met with him, but he 971 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,160 Speaker 5: was you know, say what you will about him, but 972 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,960 Speaker 5: he was effusive, and he said, you're a great writer. 973 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,000 Speaker 5: And I remember I can't do a Belgian accent. But 974 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,239 Speaker 5: he said, I will protect He said, Hollywood will try 975 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,320 Speaker 5: to destroy you, but I will protect you like an eagle. 976 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,759 Speaker 5: And he and they made the moviet like like two 977 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,600 Speaker 5: months later. I was on the set. So I was 978 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,879 Speaker 5: I was twenty two and it was four or five 979 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,120 Speaker 5: months out of school. And then I kicked around and 980 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 5: did some other Jean Claudi movies for a while, and 981 00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,719 Speaker 5: then eventually I got the gig to write Blade. And 982 00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,480 Speaker 5: that was the first time that I Mike Delugo, who 983 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,000 Speaker 5: is running New Line at the time and now it's 984 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,000 Speaker 5: running Warner Brothers, just let me write what I want 985 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,840 Speaker 5: to write and just didn't give me notes. And so 986 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,280 Speaker 5: you know, I guess the proof is in the pudding. 987 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,720 Speaker 5: With that another long answer, Well. 988 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,680 Speaker 2: I was gonna it was a great one, one great answer. 989 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,399 Speaker 2: And I love that gen carelled Vandamn story. 990 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 3: It makes me very happy as someone who is a 991 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,560 Speaker 3: huge fan of his spincare. 992 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,960 Speaker 2: I mean, that's the most gen cole Van Damn thing 993 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,200 Speaker 2: I've ever heard. He's going to protect you like an eagle. 994 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,920 Speaker 3: Okay, so let's talk about Blade, because a it's like 995 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:38,040 Speaker 3: a fucking masterpiece and b that essentially establishes the superhero 996 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 3: genre for the next you know, still now it's still 997 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 3: going on. 998 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,160 Speaker 5: But yeah, people cite x Men the first one, which 999 00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:45,640 Speaker 5: was great. 1000 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,319 Speaker 3: But Blade, Yeah, but it's Blade and Studios. You know, 1001 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,520 Speaker 3: you have this, So could you talk a little bit 1002 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,960 Speaker 3: about Blade, Like, was that a character you'd come across before? 1003 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,479 Speaker 3: Did you go back and read the black and White 1004 00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,319 Speaker 3: stuff or was this just a story? I mean, it's 1005 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,800 Speaker 3: such a cool concept that you were just like, I immediately 1006 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,360 Speaker 3: know what this is going to be. 1007 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,440 Speaker 5: Well, I was a giant comic book geek anyway, so 1008 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,720 Speaker 5: there was almost no Marvel ordazy character that I wasn't 1009 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,319 Speaker 5: familiar with. So I had read all of Too Madracula, 1010 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,160 Speaker 5: and I'd read the black and white yeah, sort of 1011 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 5: more mature and magazine stories, and I was so I 1012 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 5: was completely familiar with with Blade. And I had heard 1013 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,200 Speaker 5: that Newline wanted to make they had had some success 1014 00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,239 Speaker 5: with House Party and Deep Cover like so called urban movies. Uh, 1015 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,600 Speaker 5: And I'd heard that they wanted to do a black 1016 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:39,520 Speaker 5: superhero and so they were thinking Marvel and at the 1017 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,640 Speaker 5: time it was Luke Cage, it was Blade, or it 1018 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:48,440 Speaker 5: was Black Panther, And I thought Blade could potentially be 1019 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,280 Speaker 5: made for a price because it was a horror film, 1020 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:56,280 Speaker 5: you know, action horror film. And I was also really 1021 00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,040 Speaker 5: I was watching a lot of Hong Kong action films 1022 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,240 Speaker 5: at the time, you know, way before they became in vogue, 1023 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,840 Speaker 5: and so I had this, yeah, crazy idea, like movies 1024 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,680 Speaker 5: like Bride with White Hair and stuff like that. I 1025 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:15,000 Speaker 5: had this crazy idea to fuse like Hong Kong action 1026 00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:20,400 Speaker 5: films with you know, vampire movies with it was just like, 1027 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,040 Speaker 5: I don't know why it came up with it, and 1028 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,719 Speaker 5: I pitched it, and I and I pitched a trilogy. 1029 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,560 Speaker 5: I remember to de Luca and I said, I'm going 1030 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,640 Speaker 5: to pitch you the Star Wars of Vampire films and 1031 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,360 Speaker 5: he said they and at the time they wanted to 1032 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,759 Speaker 5: make it for six to eight million dollars and they 1033 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,839 Speaker 5: liked the pitch and he just let me write. So 1034 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 5: the movie that got made is largely the one that 1035 00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,799 Speaker 5: I wrote. But the funny thing is he said six 1036 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,400 Speaker 5: to eight million, and my first draft came in and 1037 00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,879 Speaker 5: they budgeted it and it came in at forty five 1038 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 5: million and it was R rated. And the crazy thing 1039 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:57,319 Speaker 5: is DeLuca who took these huge risks at the time, 1040 00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,719 Speaker 5: just said screw it, We're gonna make it. And then 1041 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,640 Speaker 5: actually the budget even escalated fifty five million, and people 1042 00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:08,640 Speaker 5: were I spawned come out, and people were just making 1043 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,680 Speaker 5: fun of the movie before it came out. I remember 1044 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,319 Speaker 5: reading early chatter even on like ain't it cool way 1045 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:13,719 Speaker 5: back when? 1046 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:14,480 Speaker 3: You know? 1047 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,240 Speaker 5: But I knew what we'd made and I knew we 1048 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,320 Speaker 5: had the goods and it was amazing being in those 1049 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:26,160 Speaker 5: first couple of audience previews because you could just feel 1050 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,760 Speaker 5: the audience like, oh my god, this is something. Yeah, yeah, 1051 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 5: see me before it was cool. 1052 00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,560 Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, I just need Jason, I know, we a 1053 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:35,120 Speaker 2: film about it. 1054 00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 3: I need to know about the blood rave because it 1055 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,080 Speaker 3: is like one of the most iconic sequences ever and 1056 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:45,320 Speaker 3: is now like constantly spoken of it. And also it's like, 1057 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,920 Speaker 3: you know the Batman, there's definitely like they have the 1058 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,960 Speaker 3: rave sequence there and it's like definitely red and very 1059 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,400 Speaker 3: thing that could you just talk about that, like, because 1060 00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,240 Speaker 3: did you know that that was going to become like 1061 00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:57,800 Speaker 3: such an iconic moment. 1062 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,960 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, look that was in my pitch. Was 1063 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,240 Speaker 5: that opening? I mean I pitched that scene in the 1064 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 5: old because I was trying to reinvent vampire movies in 1065 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:13,560 Speaker 5: vampire stories, and and and I just thought, what's the 1066 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,760 Speaker 5: most decadent, you know, thing I can possibly think of, 1067 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,480 Speaker 5: you know, a kind of vampire let them eat cake 1068 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,920 Speaker 5: or something like that. And so that was in the 1069 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,000 Speaker 5: first pitch. And then you know, Steve Norington did an 1070 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:33,080 Speaker 5: incredible job shooting it. It was it was completely miserable. 1071 00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,520 Speaker 5: We shot it in Los Angeles, and we shot it 1072 00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,560 Speaker 5: over the course of like I can't remember how many days. 1073 00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,360 Speaker 5: But it was hot, it was summer, and the crew 1074 00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,400 Speaker 5: had to wear those sort of like white hasmat suits, 1075 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,240 Speaker 5: you know, like breaking bad clean suits. Yeah, and it 1076 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,240 Speaker 5: was all this fake blood and the floor was really 1077 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:55,200 Speaker 5: sticky and it smelled awful, I mean just awful. And 1078 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,240 Speaker 5: you couldn't walk around without your like your feet sticking 1079 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,600 Speaker 5: to things, and and it was I mean, it was 1080 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:06,960 Speaker 5: a miserable sequence to film. But I don't know, it's 1081 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 5: it's like we're talking about something that I wrote twenty 1082 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,240 Speaker 5: more than twenty twenty seven years ago, Like where did 1083 00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:14,720 Speaker 5: I come up with the idea? But I was just 1084 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 5: trying to come up with breaking down the conventions. I 1085 00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,400 Speaker 5: was trying, Look, don't get me wrong. I love Hammer 1086 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,520 Speaker 5: House of Horror films, but I was trying to come 1087 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:30,080 Speaker 5: up with like the anti you know, Hammer vampire story. Yeah, 1088 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,360 Speaker 5: and also tip into black exploitation and all of those things. 1089 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,760 Speaker 5: It's it's crazy that it worked, yeah, you know, because 1090 00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 5: we're sort of fusing so many different elements. 1091 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:46,000 Speaker 1: Sarah writer For a number of years increasingly successful writer, 1092 00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,600 Speaker 1: you become the go to guy for adaptation, comic adaptation 1093 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,200 Speaker 1: IP stuff. As you noted, how do you then make 1094 00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,840 Speaker 1: the transition to director and showrunner? 1095 00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,560 Speaker 4: And how hard is that to do? 1096 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,400 Speaker 5: Good question? Well, at the time when I started to 1097 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,680 Speaker 5: do it, it was very hard because I built up 1098 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,520 Speaker 5: ahead of steam as a screenwriter back in the days 1099 01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,200 Speaker 5: when one could make a good living as a screenwriter 1100 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:15,920 Speaker 5: as opposed to what's happening right now. And I was 1101 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,680 Speaker 5: a fast screenwriter, so I could write four feature scripts 1102 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,440 Speaker 5: a year, and I was making a really good living, 1103 01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:28,520 Speaker 5: and I had had the fortunate well, I would say 1104 01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,000 Speaker 5: with Blade in Dark City, those were the first times 1105 01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 5: I'd worked with, you know, genuinely good directors, and I'd 1106 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,040 Speaker 5: worked with some not so good directors prior to that, 1107 01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,439 Speaker 5: and i'd seen one of the things that's hard as 1108 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:45,160 Speaker 5: a screenwriter is you can have your name on a 1109 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:50,560 Speaker 5: movie or a teleplay and up to thirty percent of 1110 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,320 Speaker 5: it could be rewritten by other people, but they won't 1111 01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,720 Speaker 5: get credit, their names won't appear, but you get the 1112 01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:01,640 Speaker 5: blame they massively altered. So I'd had this experience of 1113 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:06,959 Speaker 5: just either being rewritten by people or worked with some 1114 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:13,720 Speaker 5: mediocre or bad directors, and I wanted to retain more control. 1115 01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:18,560 Speaker 5: So I wanted to start producing and then eventually directing, 1116 01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,760 Speaker 5: and I thought, well, I can, I can at least 1117 01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:26,360 Speaker 5: be a mediocre director. I mean, you know, maybe at 1118 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,560 Speaker 5: the beginning I was. I think I got better at it, 1119 01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,680 Speaker 5: and it's it's the whole ten thousand hour thing. But 1120 01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,560 Speaker 5: it's hard because my agents did not want me to 1121 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,640 Speaker 5: do it, and we're making money off of me and Dave. 1122 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,360 Speaker 4: We got a good thing going yeah and. 1123 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,920 Speaker 5: So, and people don't want to give a FIRSTI director 1124 01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,560 Speaker 5: a shot. So I adapted a book called Zigzag that 1125 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,960 Speaker 5: I had a budget for two point eight million dollars, 1126 01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:00,600 Speaker 5: and I Wesley agreed to do a cameo. He worked 1127 01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,280 Speaker 5: on it for six days. He was like the anchor. 1128 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,400 Speaker 5: And then I got some other people like Oliver Platten, 1129 01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:10,400 Speaker 5: Natasha Leone and John Leguizamo and I worked in that 1130 01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 5: movie for a year, and I took what's called scale, 1131 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:19,120 Speaker 5: so I can't even remember what I made to write it, 1132 01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,800 Speaker 5: something like eighteen thousand dollars and to direct it forty 1133 01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,480 Speaker 5: thousand and fifty eight thousand seems like a lot, but 1134 01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:27,640 Speaker 5: I was making far more than that as a writer, 1135 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:32,720 Speaker 5: and my agents were not happy with me making the shift. 1136 01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,320 Speaker 1: And how much more complicated because obviously you've been in 1137 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,560 Speaker 1: this business now so long and seen so many changes, 1138 01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,920 Speaker 1: and now you've got productions on TV slash streaming that 1139 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:50,720 Speaker 1: are essentially multi episode movies. How did you put you know, 1140 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,080 Speaker 1: it seems like a very daunting task to try and 1141 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,040 Speaker 1: put all those tools together and say, now I'm going 1142 01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:01,360 Speaker 1: to manage a multi episode, multi season movie that takes 1143 01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:06,840 Speaker 1: place on you know, one continent, but across the continent 1144 01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 1: and multiple time zones at once. 1145 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,400 Speaker 4: You know what, what were the things that you. 1146 01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,040 Speaker 1: Encountered that you were like, well, I'm glad that I 1147 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,680 Speaker 1: had been through these other experiences to let me know 1148 01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:18,480 Speaker 1: how to do this. 1149 01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:22,880 Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I mean, it is daunting. It 1150 01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:27,800 Speaker 5: is really hard. It's there are times when I I, 1151 01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,920 Speaker 5: you know, wish I could work on a show that 1152 01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,040 Speaker 5: just took place in one city, that you know, one 1153 01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:37,520 Speaker 5: time zone, that didn't have a ton of visual effects 1154 01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:41,240 Speaker 5: or things like that. But I but it was also 1155 01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,720 Speaker 5: kind of bit by bit by bit by bit over 1156 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,800 Speaker 5: the course of twenty years. So it's just building upon 1157 01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,320 Speaker 5: what I learned before. And I had, you know, the 1158 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,640 Speaker 5: first show that really made some waves was a show 1159 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:59,280 Speaker 5: that I had co created called flash Forward Way Back 1160 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,040 Speaker 5: on ABC at the time, and I directed the first 1161 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,280 Speaker 5: two episodes of that, And then I had another show 1162 01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,760 Speaker 5: on Stars called Da Vinci's Demons, which was a little 1163 01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,080 Speaker 5: more ambitious. It's sort of each one was successfully a 1164 01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:16,400 Speaker 5: little more ambitious, and it's it's just building upon you know, look, 1165 01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,640 Speaker 5: you look at a lot of people, a lot of filmmakers, 1166 01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:25,479 Speaker 5: and Chris Nolan started out with you know, following, which 1167 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,320 Speaker 5: is most people I've me even seen or heard of, 1168 01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:35,280 Speaker 5: and and and then why am I blanking on Momento? Memento? Yeah, 1169 01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,640 Speaker 5: then Memento and then Insomnia and then you know it 1170 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,760 Speaker 5: just he didn't start He was incredibly talented, but he 1171 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,240 Speaker 5: didn't start out with inception. 1172 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:42,919 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1173 01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:47,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so with something that's also like, you talk 1174 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,720 Speaker 3: about ambition, and you've already set up this kind of 1175 01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:54,480 Speaker 3: huge challenge for yourself, and then coming into the second season, 1176 01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,280 Speaker 3: you arguably switch everything up, yeah, and kind of go 1177 01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,680 Speaker 3: one hundred years in the future and change like one 1178 01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,120 Speaker 3: hundred plus and change like a lot of the major costs. 1179 01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,200 Speaker 3: Could you talk about those kind of choices and challenges 1180 01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 3: and how that adds to the ambition and the storytelling. 1181 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,800 Speaker 5: Well, when I pitched Foundation to Apple, I said, this 1182 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:17,920 Speaker 5: is going to be a crazy hybrid because it's it's 1183 01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:20,760 Speaker 5: going to be a cross between a serial ie show 1184 01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,439 Speaker 5: and kind of a seasonal anthology. And so I said, 1185 01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,200 Speaker 5: we're going to have, like, you know, a complete story, 1186 01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,720 Speaker 5: and they're going to be a handful of characters that 1187 01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,080 Speaker 5: are going to continue from season to season that are 1188 01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:34,440 Speaker 5: through the various trusts of science fiction, they are going 1189 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:38,240 Speaker 5: to be effectively immortal. And then we're going to introduce 1190 01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,400 Speaker 5: new characters each season and they're going to have a 1191 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:46,280 Speaker 5: complete story and then you know, either succeed or die 1192 01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,880 Speaker 5: or whatnot, and then they won't come back. And I 1193 01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,760 Speaker 5: just I couldn't really think of a show that had 1194 01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,680 Speaker 5: pursued that format before, and I thought it would be 1195 01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,520 Speaker 5: an interesting way to kind of tackle some of the 1196 01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:05,160 Speaker 5: more theological aspects of Foundation. And I guess Apple was 1197 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,520 Speaker 5: crazy enough to go for it. You know, Normally, normally, 1198 01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:12,720 Speaker 5: when you pitch something that just like breaks all the 1199 01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,040 Speaker 5: conventional rules of storytelling or storytelling as it's known on streaming, 1200 01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,600 Speaker 5: you're like, oh, you're crazy. That'll never fly, and on 1201 01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:24,160 Speaker 5: top of it be hugely expensive. But there were some 1202 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:30,000 Speaker 5: fans at Apple of Foundation and and and that helped. 1203 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,880 Speaker 5: And I, you know, at the time, I created it 1204 01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:38,160 Speaker 5: with Josh Friedman, who left after the third episode or so. 1205 01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,320 Speaker 5: But we spent a lot of time on that pitch, 1206 01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,840 Speaker 5: and each of us had, you know, had a certain 1207 01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,320 Speaker 5: body of work that we worked on prior to that 1208 01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:52,680 Speaker 5: that I guess they, you know, bought our crazy pitch, 1209 01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,240 Speaker 5: you know, I think that the in terms of changing 1210 01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:02,080 Speaker 5: it up, I I I think, on one hand, what 1211 01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:06,520 Speaker 5: we did with season two, you could say you're crazy 1212 01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,919 Speaker 5: to have attempted that, like why not continue what you know, 1213 01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,000 Speaker 5: why are you just doing a refresh on everything? But 1214 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:19,280 Speaker 5: people seem to have really, you know, gone nuts for it, 1215 01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,000 Speaker 5: And so I just felt like it would be boring 1216 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,840 Speaker 5: if we repeated ourselves or boring if we just I 1217 01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,640 Speaker 5: just wanted to try something really bold and challenging. And 1218 01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,040 Speaker 5: I'm kind of amazed at how well Season two has 1219 01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:37,160 Speaker 5: been received. I thought more people would be freaked out 1220 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,960 Speaker 5: by the fact that we're just we're just jumping forward 1221 01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,400 Speaker 5: one hundred and thirty years and just introducing a whole 1222 01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:44,520 Speaker 5: slew of new characters, and even many of the characters 1223 01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:50,280 Speaker 5: that you know are are you know, we're perceiving them 1224 01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,400 Speaker 5: in a different way. And I love how we just 1225 01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,600 Speaker 5: start with the first episode and we just plunk you 1226 01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:56,760 Speaker 5: in the middle of this black and white film, you know, 1227 01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,600 Speaker 5: with Harry Seldon, and we just say you got to 1228 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,680 Speaker 5: catch up. Sorry, you know, I don't know. That excited 1229 01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:09,880 Speaker 5: me and I am amazed though that it didn't throw 1230 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:10,520 Speaker 5: more people. 1231 01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:15,360 Speaker 1: I will say that opening scene where Harry is trying 1232 01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,760 Speaker 1: to knit his mind back together, Yeah, how much of 1233 01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:20,680 Speaker 1: that was written? How much of that is Jared just 1234 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:21,800 Speaker 1: kind of going. 1235 01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:26,360 Speaker 5: About half So, so we wrote some stuff. I will 1236 01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:30,120 Speaker 5: say this, It's it's not all random. Well, because you've 1237 01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,160 Speaker 5: seen this season, like some of some of the some 1238 01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,919 Speaker 5: of the stuff that he says loops back around. People go, oh, interesting. 1239 01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,400 Speaker 5: Jared's a really smart, shrewd guy, and we talked about 1240 01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,479 Speaker 5: the themes of things that he could talk about, so 1241 01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,000 Speaker 5: he said everything that was scripted, and then it was 1242 01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,800 Speaker 5: just kind of an open mic letter rip stream of consciousness. 1243 01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,720 Speaker 5: I mean, honestly, I would have gone on longer. But 1244 01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,920 Speaker 5: those that stuff is also really expensive because whether it's 1245 01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:02,719 Speaker 5: whether it's the black and white stuff where we're trying 1246 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,640 Speaker 5: to erase things, or whether it's the stuff in the 1247 01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:09,200 Speaker 5: prime ratio in itself where we're trying to erase crew reflections. 1248 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,760 Speaker 5: It's but he's we used there were times when he 1249 01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 5: said a bunch of stuff and he said, oh, you're 1250 01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:16,599 Speaker 5: not gonna use that. You're not gonna use that. You're 1251 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,240 Speaker 5: not gonna use it. And we then ended up using 1252 01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:19,599 Speaker 5: a lot of course. 1253 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:23,320 Speaker 3: And then you get that juxtaposition with that like incredible 1254 01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:27,599 Speaker 3: action sequence, Oh my dealy naked fighting the assassins, and 1255 01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,680 Speaker 3: that's like a very different tone shift too. Could you 1256 01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:31,360 Speaker 3: talk a little bit about that because the action is 1257 01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:31,920 Speaker 3: so great. 1258 01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,479 Speaker 5: You know, I loved juxtaposing those two scenes together though, 1259 01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,719 Speaker 5: because there's like one is as heady, kind of hard filmy, 1260 01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,160 Speaker 5: you know, THHX eleven thirty is you can get and 1261 01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,040 Speaker 5: then the other one is just kind of a Game 1262 01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:50,000 Speaker 5: of Thrones action sequence. But I I again, I wanted 1263 01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:55,000 Speaker 5: to challenge the audience and challenge people's expectations of what 1264 01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,360 Speaker 5: if they'd seen season one, or even if they hadn't 1265 01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,519 Speaker 5: seen season one and then heard about it, what kind 1266 01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:04,559 Speaker 5: of scenes we could take on in the show, because 1267 01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:07,360 Speaker 5: I think there was some people had heard about it, 1268 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,000 Speaker 5: but maybe there was a barrier to entry because they 1269 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,920 Speaker 5: thought it was like too highbrow or too heady or 1270 01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:17,840 Speaker 5: exactly exactly, and it is still cerebral, but I thought 1271 01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,080 Speaker 5: it's a big tent and we can embody a bunch 1272 01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:24,439 Speaker 5: of scenes. And I'm excited with you know, I don't 1273 01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:27,280 Speaker 5: know when this episode's going to drop, but episode two 1274 01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:34,320 Speaker 5: will drop the twenty first, and we also start to 1275 01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:38,320 Speaker 5: introduce some more elements and some more dry humor as 1276 01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:42,000 Speaker 5: of episode two and particularly with episode three, and once again, 1277 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:46,920 Speaker 5: I'm excited for the audience to you know, on the 1278 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,120 Speaker 5: surface of it, it feels like it wouldn't work, but 1279 01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,559 Speaker 5: it does work, and you realize it's such a foundation, 1280 01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:57,000 Speaker 5: is so serious that it's good to have some characters 1281 01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:02,679 Speaker 5: that don't take psychohistories seriously or the Empire. It's good 1282 01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:04,920 Speaker 5: to have characters like that kind of in your quiver. 1283 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:09,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, David, this has been such a fun conversation. 1284 01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:11,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. 1285 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:12,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much. 1286 01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,920 Speaker 5: My pleasure. And if I can do a tiny plug. 1287 01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:16,200 Speaker 4: Yes, please please. 1288 01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,400 Speaker 5: I've got a little website that i've I've neglected for 1289 01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,519 Speaker 5: a while, but I've also because of the striking stuff 1290 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:26,439 Speaker 5: Davidescory dot com. I'm doing show notes as episodes drop, 1291 01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,160 Speaker 5: and I'm also including kind of behind the scenes making 1292 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,000 Speaker 5: of photos and things. And so if people want to 1293 01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:35,720 Speaker 5: log onto there and I'm going to put together a 1294 01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,960 Speaker 5: mailing list, they can get some more sort of fun 1295 01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:42,920 Speaker 5: behind the scenes details. And that's all I got. 1296 01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:47,000 Speaker 4: Cool, that's awesome. Thanks again, David, my pleasure. Up next, 1297 01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:47,439 Speaker 4: nerd Out. 1298 01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:57,160 Speaker 2: In today's not Out way, you tell us what you 1299 01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,600 Speaker 2: love them why, a theory or excited chat or a 1300 01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,800 Speaker 2: quick question we can answer. Matt offers a thought on 1301 01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:06,920 Speaker 2: Indiana Jones. Matt begins with some kind words towards us. 1302 01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,000 Speaker 2: Thank you, Matt. I won't make everybody listen to them, 1303 01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,200 Speaker 2: but we appreciate. 1304 01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:13,479 Speaker 3: You, Matt says, with Indiana Jones back in the limelight, 1305 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,000 Speaker 3: I wanted to share a realization I had during the 1306 01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,479 Speaker 3: last time I watched Traders of the Lost Arc throughout 1307 01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:22,679 Speaker 3: the introductory sequence, walking through the Peruvian woods, encountering bats, 1308 01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:27,320 Speaker 3: double crossing aids, outsmarting traps, shrugging off scary wildlife, even 1309 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:31,040 Speaker 3: taking a gorgeous relic and surviving a collapsing tomb. Many 1310 01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,080 Speaker 3: excamation points there is not so much as a hint 1311 01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:37,400 Speaker 3: of the legendary John Williams theme. It's only when Indy 1312 01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:40,080 Speaker 3: grabs the vine to swing into the water and escape 1313 01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,960 Speaker 3: his pursuers that we hear those trumpets blare out his motif. 1314 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,559 Speaker 3: That got me reflecting on how the heart of Indy 1315 01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,760 Speaker 3: is truly the escape. He doesn't get to keep the 1316 01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,439 Speaker 3: Arc at the end of Raiders, or the Shankara stones 1317 01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:54,160 Speaker 3: at the end of Temple of the Doom, or the 1318 01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,679 Speaker 3: grail at the end of the Crusade, or the skull 1319 01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:58,800 Speaker 3: at the end of Kingdom. I haven't seen Dile of 1320 01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:00,479 Speaker 3: Destiny yet, but I kind of hope it keeps to 1321 01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:03,400 Speaker 3: this tradition of Indy getting into something way over his 1322 01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:05,960 Speaker 3: hat and just making out by the skin of his teeth, 1323 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,720 Speaker 3: because that's who Indiana Jones is. The oh I'm up 1324 01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:13,360 Speaker 3: fuck around him. Find out here. Thank you for indulging 1325 01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:16,519 Speaker 3: my observation, sending you all the love in this nutsp map. 1326 01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,760 Speaker 2: Thank you, Matt. I think that's true. I think it's 1327 01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:19,719 Speaker 2: all about the escape. 1328 01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:22,439 Speaker 4: I think that's true. It's about the close calls. It 1329 01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:23,439 Speaker 4: is about that. 1330 01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:26,240 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about something we talked about during our 1331 01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:30,599 Speaker 1: conversation about Indy, and that's how in the final act 1332 01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:38,080 Speaker 1: of most of these movies, the agency goes to a 1333 01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,920 Speaker 1: higher power, God, aliens, whatever, and it's actually not Indy 1334 01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:44,560 Speaker 1: kind of doing whatever the big thing is at the 1335 01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,240 Speaker 1: very end of the movie. And I was thinking about it, 1336 01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,639 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, to Matt's point, not only 1337 01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:54,040 Speaker 1: is it about the escape, but what makes Indy the 1338 01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:56,880 Speaker 1: hero in these stories is the fact that he has 1339 01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:02,360 Speaker 1: he is able to put uh whatever the object and 1340 01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:07,240 Speaker 1: the power behind the object is in the correct framing. 1341 01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:10,400 Speaker 1: He understands like I'm just a man. I'm not I 1342 01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,320 Speaker 1: don't I'm not going to fuck around with God, Like 1343 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna interro I'm not gonna mess with 1344 01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:19,080 Speaker 1: that right like he has that respect. And all the 1345 01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 1: other villains of our various pieces, mostly Nazis never do right. 1346 01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:25,320 Speaker 1: They always want to say, Wow, I want to seize 1347 01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,320 Speaker 1: God's or an alien's power for myself. Indy never does that. 1348 01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,720 Speaker 1: And number two, uh, you know, kind of attaching this 1349 01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:36,880 Speaker 1: observation to Matt's observation. Part of the reason it's about 1350 01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:40,000 Speaker 1: the escape for Indy is, think about it. He can 1351 01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:44,439 Speaker 1: only he can only go for objects that he can 1352 01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:46,800 Speaker 1: carry out in a medium sized duffel bag. 1353 01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,479 Speaker 2: That's it. 1354 01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:53,880 Speaker 4: It's not or it's not happening, folks. 1355 01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:56,320 Speaker 1: He's got to be able to tuck it into like 1356 01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:02,160 Speaker 1: a postman's bag and climb out. So it is often 1357 01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:06,280 Speaker 1: about the escape because he was gonna help him carry 1358 01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,360 Speaker 1: the thing out of there. How is he gonna like, 1359 01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:13,080 Speaker 1: how is he gonna get the arc like out of 1360 01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,960 Speaker 1: tennis and out of the building, Like I guess they 1361 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:17,360 Speaker 1: were gonna have a truck or something. 1362 01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:18,479 Speaker 5: But there was come on, there was. 1363 01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:19,240 Speaker 2: No gonna happen. 1364 01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:21,000 Speaker 1: No, it was never gonna happen. 1365 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:22,400 Speaker 2: Thanks Matt. 1366 01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:24,840 Speaker 3: If you have theories, passions, or quick questions you want 1367 01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:27,559 Speaker 3: to share, hit us up at extra at crooked dot com. 1368 01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:29,200 Speaker 2: Instructions in the show notes. 1369 01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,880 Speaker 1: A huge thanks to David Eskoyer for being so generous 1370 01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:38,639 Speaker 1: with his time this episode, and that's it for us 1371 01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,360 Speaker 1: this episode Rosie and he plugs. 1372 01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:45,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm gonna plug mutual aid. It's very hot out there. 1373 01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:48,519 Speaker 3: So on Saturday, when I was leaving San Diego, I 1374 01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,760 Speaker 3: went CVS. I bought twenty eight dollars of water, which 1375 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:53,880 Speaker 3: was like six big cases of water, and I just 1376 01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:55,439 Speaker 3: handed it out to all the folks who live in 1377 01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:57,839 Speaker 3: San Diego year round. If you were at San Diego, 1378 01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:01,960 Speaker 3: there are loads of great mutual aid organizations there that 1379 01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:03,800 Speaker 3: you can donate to if you weren't able to be 1380 01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,519 Speaker 3: there and help out the folks when you were actually 1381 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,320 Speaker 3: at the con because you were busy. There's a great 1382 01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:12,719 Speaker 3: one called we All We Got SD that's their Instagram handle. Also, 1383 01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:14,840 Speaker 3: if you have a freezer that is big and you 1384 01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,240 Speaker 3: live in America, maybe because a lot of the freezers 1385 01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,080 Speaker 3: here are really big, put a case of water in 1386 01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,280 Speaker 3: your freezer. Then when you're driving around, if you see 1387 01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,479 Speaker 3: anyone just sitting out in the sun, you just give them. 1388 01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:26,320 Speaker 2: An icy bottle of water. Cold water saves people's lives 1389 01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:27,160 Speaker 2: in these heat waves. 1390 01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,640 Speaker 3: And if you can't and don't have the time, we 1391 01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:34,160 Speaker 3: aren't physically able, there's loads of great spaces, homymade meals, 1392 01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:35,120 Speaker 3: community fridges. 1393 01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:36,640 Speaker 2: There's loads of different places that you can do it. 1394 01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:38,640 Speaker 3: But right now it's really hot and being outside is 1395 01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,040 Speaker 3: really dangerous, so cold water is a great thing to 1396 01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,080 Speaker 3: having a fridge, or just throw some throw some crash 1397 01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,479 Speaker 3: to one of the mutual aid orcs in your area. 1398 01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:47,479 Speaker 4: Well said. 1399 01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,880 Speaker 1: Catch the next episode of x ray Vision Friday, July 1400 01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,439 Speaker 1: twenty eighth for the finale of Secret Invasion. 1401 01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:56,719 Speaker 4: We'll be there. 1402 01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:01,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Secret Invasion. It's the final finale, final episode. It's time, 1403 01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:01,839 Speaker 2: It's happened. 1404 01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:05,160 Speaker 3: Can You can watch full episodes of the podcast on 1405 01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,000 Speaker 3: YouTube and check out our Twitter at xr V pod 1406 01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:10,400 Speaker 3: and our discord hang out with all those core fans 1407 01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:11,240 Speaker 3: are always talking. 1408 01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,400 Speaker 4: About five star ratings, five star reviews. We need and 1409 01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:15,960 Speaker 4: we gotta have them. You gotta give them to us. 1410 01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,000 Speaker 4: Here is five from ash. 1411 01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:22,160 Speaker 1: It's the only podcast I prioritize listening to. Wow, if 1412 01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:23,920 Speaker 1: you care about any nerd stuff at all, this is 1413 01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:26,360 Speaker 1: the podcast for you. I've been a loyal listener since 1414 01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,240 Speaker 1: episode one and I love the show so much I 1415 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,920 Speaker 1: even joined the discord, something I'd never done before. 1416 01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,160 Speaker 2: Welcome and yeah, thanks for joining us. 1417 01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:35,640 Speaker 1: Extra Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is 1418 01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,160 Speaker 1: produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rumin and executive produced 1419 01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,840 Speaker 1: by me Jason Concepcio and our editing at sound design 1420 01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:44,880 Speaker 1: is by Facillis Fatopoulos. Video production by Delon Villanueva and 1421 01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:49,280 Speaker 1: Rachel guy Eski. Social media by Awa Oglatti and Caroline Dunfie. 1422 01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:51,559 Speaker 1: Thank you to Brian Basquez for our theme music. 1423 01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:52,880 Speaker 4: See you next time. 1424 01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:54,320 Speaker 5: Bye,