Speaker 1: My name is Alex, and I have a pretty hard
Speaker 1: time being present. Ah No, be all right, no alright, no,
Speaker 1: be alright forever, No be all right, lit alright, no,
Speaker 1: be al right. Ever, ever since I started working for me,
Speaker 1: it was at fifteen years old, being here in California,
Speaker 1: I've always focused so much on what's next, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I gotta do this tomorrow, or I have to do
Speaker 1: this next week, or man, this big project is due
Speaker 1: that day. And I think that's something that's pretty common
Speaker 1: with all of us. Uh. And I actually remember seeing
Speaker 1: an Instagram post and I thought it was not necessarily
Speaker 1: the full truth, but something that I thought was interesting. Um.
Speaker 1: And it was like an old ancient monk saying that said,
Speaker 1: if if you're anxious, you're worried about the future. If
Speaker 1: you're depressed, you're worried about the past. But if you're
Speaker 1: neither of those, then you are present. You are living
Speaker 1: in the now. And I really like that end. As
Speaker 1: somebody who deals with their own mental health, I don't
Speaker 1: think that covers the full spectrum of it all. But
Speaker 1: I read that and I realized that's totally me, you know,
Speaker 1: as somebody who my therapist has diagnosed me with anticipatory anxiety. UM,
Speaker 1: I very much so have a very hard time living present,
Speaker 1: being present. UM. I can stay focused on a task
Speaker 1: at hand, but I always have in my mind somewhere
Speaker 1: this worry of what's coming next, or a kind of like, uh,
Speaker 1: I forgot I have to do this next, or something
Speaker 1: that's even kind of the kid in class the last
Speaker 1: day of school before summer break where I'm like, come on,
Speaker 1: come on, come on, come on, I need this to happen,
Speaker 1: to need this to happen. And I've realized that that's
Speaker 1: also kind of ailed me in the sense of I
Speaker 1: don't really get to enjoy what's going on right there
Speaker 1: in front of me. Since my you know, fifteen year
Speaker 1: old start of working, you know, I've gotten into meditation.
Speaker 1: Every once in a while, I downloaded different apps from
Speaker 1: um Headspace to Calm to all of those different types
Speaker 1: of apps. I've obviously worked with a therapist. I've done yoga.
Speaker 1: My girlfriend got me into yoga, and so all of
Speaker 1: those things have definitely helped. But I do still think
Speaker 1: to this day that I have issues staying present and
Speaker 1: staying focused, enjoying the highs of a certain moment, to
Speaker 1: its fullest, you know, potential, and also working through the lows,
Speaker 1: the moments um that I'm that I'm dealing with at
Speaker 1: the time. And I started realizing as I was becoming
Speaker 1: more honest, whether it's through my album, whether it's through
Speaker 1: talking about you know, therapy, whether it's this podcast, that
Speaker 1: a lot of people have that issue, that a lot
Speaker 1: of people are stressed about what's coming next, or are
Speaker 1: thinking about the past so much, or you know, I
Speaker 1: have a lot of friends who have a d D
Speaker 1: and a d h D and have just problems focusing
Speaker 1: in general. And that's what really got me thinking, if
Speaker 1: we're not present mentally, then where are we? No? What's up, y'all?
Speaker 1: Welcome back to let's get into it. We are talking
Speaker 1: about just being and no better person to be president
Speaker 1: than somebody who has pretty much everything that that umbrella
Speaker 1: covers under the sun. This lady is an associate psychotherapist,
Speaker 1: a mindfulness coach, a yoga and meditation teacher, and in
Speaker 1: addition to that, she's the co host of the Cheaper
Speaker 1: Than Therapy podcast. My first guest Vanessa Bennett. How are you, Vanessa?
Speaker 1: I'm great? How are you, Alex? I'm so happy that
Speaker 1: you're here, and and I'm excited you You pretty much
Speaker 1: like I said, you cover every topic of mindfulness and
Speaker 1: being present that there is. So I'm excited to ask
Speaker 1: you a lot of questions. Oh yeah, I'm excited to
Speaker 1: answer what I can you. As my other guest, you
Speaker 1: already know her. This is the crazy thing. You already
Speaker 1: know her, but you don't know you know her. She
Speaker 1: is the Let's get into It producer Catherine Law. She's
Speaker 1: also a comedy writer, dog mom to one of my
Speaker 1: favorite just the Cutest pug. Her name is Mimsy. If
Speaker 1: you listen closely to some episodes, you might even hear
Speaker 1: her snoring in the background. She's also the co host
Speaker 1: of the podcast Driving to Disneyland Catherine Law. Katherine, how
Speaker 1: are you hi. I'm doing great. It's a beautiful day today,
Speaker 1: so just happy as can be. I am so happy
Speaker 1: that you're here. You're here for every podcast. I'm just
Speaker 1: excited that people get to hear you. Um, there's this
Speaker 1: funny joke that we have. I have to call you
Speaker 1: out that in between each segment. As soon as we finish,
Speaker 1: we call it the Katherine Yea because she shaped you.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're recording now, so I'm gonna do my
Speaker 1: best impression of it. This is as soon as we finish,
Speaker 1: as soon as we take a break. She was like this, yea,
Speaker 1: she does. She does the a S L movement that
Speaker 1: is that means applause and uh and and it's amazing.
Speaker 1: So Catherine has been an incredible and extremely vital part
Speaker 1: of this podcast, and I'm so excited to have you
Speaker 1: as a guest. Oh, I just feel so good about it.
Speaker 1: I'm just so happy. Well, listen, we're talking about being mindful,
Speaker 1: being present, and we have some really cool topics. First, Vanessa,
Speaker 1: you and I are gonna be talking about there's no
Speaker 1: time like the present. We're gonna take a break. Then
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to a conversation of me and Catherine
Speaker 1: talking about mindfulness and distraction. We're gonna take a break,
Speaker 1: and then lastly, the three of us are going to
Speaker 1: have an all out open conversation about next level mindfulness.
Speaker 1: We have some awesome topics, but before we get into them,
Speaker 1: I have a question that I ask every single one
Speaker 1: of my guests, and that question is what are you
Speaker 1: doing to improve yourself? This week? Um, We've had answers
Speaker 1: all over the board, from fitness things, people just giving
Speaker 1: themselves a break, people trying a new hobby, getting at
Speaker 1: a new skill. I'll give you both some time to think,
Speaker 1: and I'll go first. This week I decided that I
Speaker 1: wanted to help other people as much as I can. UM.
Speaker 1: For me, by growing up, it's always been a big
Speaker 1: deal to me, Like my father always said to you know,
Speaker 1: to serve others, help others, be a helping hand as
Speaker 1: much as you possibly can. And with quarantine, I've kind
Speaker 1: of slowed back on that because helping other people usually
Speaker 1: means being with other people, and being with other people
Speaker 1: is a no no for me at this point in
Speaker 1: my life. UM, So I've actually this week decided, you
Speaker 1: know what, I can still wear a mask and help
Speaker 1: other people. I can still help other people in other ways.
Speaker 1: And so, for instance, I help my girlfriend move a
Speaker 1: couch into her apartment this week, um I've gone shopping
Speaker 1: for groceries for some other people who can't do it.
Speaker 1: And it's really honestly um for me in my brain,
Speaker 1: it helps me feel a lot better about life, and
Speaker 1: and I feel like by doing a good thing, I
Speaker 1: can hopefully inspire other people to do good things, and
Speaker 1: and that That's what I've been doing this week to
Speaker 1: improve my life. Yeah, Catherine, you have an answer for me.
Speaker 1: You're also a vet. You hear this every time a
Speaker 1: nurse answer. I know. I actually like thought to myself
Speaker 1: last night, I was like, what am I doing to
Speaker 1: but um? And this actually feeds directly into what we're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking about today. Um. One thing that I've
Speaker 1: been doing for myself is giving myself a goal for
Speaker 1: like what time I want to be done with obligations
Speaker 1: during the day. And you know, we're going to talk
Speaker 1: a bit about distraction and all that good stuff. But
Speaker 1: for me, knowing what I need to be done is
Speaker 1: helping me to get started earlier, because what sometimes happens
Speaker 1: with me is like, Okay, I know I have to
Speaker 1: do X, Y and Z during the day, and I
Speaker 1: can tend to like put that off, especially with coronavirus stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I just have to read a couple
Speaker 1: of articles and then I just have to you know,
Speaker 1: I just have to educate myself and everything else that's
Speaker 1: going on. So the start time gets pushed later and
Speaker 1: later or later and I finished what I have to
Speaker 1: get finished. But it means I'm working super late, and
Speaker 1: then I'm sort of stressed about it all the morning
Speaker 1: and I don't really ever get that relaxation time in
Speaker 1: the evening. So I'm giving myself like an end point
Speaker 1: every day where like this is my goal, and then
Speaker 1: even if I will pass it by like an half
Speaker 1: hour or an hour, it's still like relatively what I
Speaker 1: want to be done. So then I have a relaxed evening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. All right, you got
Speaker 1: something for us, Vanessa, I do well. First off, I
Speaker 1: want to say that I was thinking, Alex when you
Speaker 1: were sharing yours, that that actually is something that's a
Speaker 1: great practice um in when we're working on I don't
Speaker 1: want to use the word treat, but treating depression is
Speaker 1: actually being in service to others. So it's actually been
Speaker 1: shown that a way to be present, um and pull
Speaker 1: yourself out of a depressive space is actually to help
Speaker 1: other people, um, who are less fortunate than you. So
Speaker 1: look at you. I didn't even realize there we go, Hey,
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I've been happier this right exactly? Um,
Speaker 1: I think for me, uh, and I'll say it's this
Speaker 1: week because it's been top of mind. But it is
Speaker 1: something that I try really hard to keep bringing back
Speaker 1: up is um asking for what I need? Yeah. So, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that I've done a
Speaker 1: lot of my own personal work on and that I
Speaker 1: actually teach a bunch of classes around is codependency. And
Speaker 1: one of the hallmarks of codependency is not being able
Speaker 1: to speak up and ask for what you need, um
Speaker 1: let alone actually sometimes be able to know what it
Speaker 1: is that your needs and wants are. Uh. So I've
Speaker 1: done a lot of work around it, and I think
Speaker 1: for me, now I know what my needs and wants are,
Speaker 1: have gotten to that point, and now it's actually just
Speaker 1: verbalizing it and speaking up for myself. Wow. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that. What a great way all three of us,
Speaker 1: What a great way to segue straight into this topic.
Speaker 1: So Catherine, as you know, we'll see you in a bit.
Speaker 1: Vanessa's time for us to go one on one, and
Speaker 1: we're talking about no time like the present. As I
Speaker 1: mentioned before, psychotherapist, mindfulness coach, you teach yoga, you teach meditation,
Speaker 1: So we're just going to dive straight into it. We
Speaker 1: want to talk about being present and uh, this thing
Speaker 1: that often happens where our bodies are in one place,
Speaker 1: but our minds are somewhere completely maybe on the other
Speaker 1: side of the world. Why is it so hard for
Speaker 1: people to exist in the present? Well, I think, first
Speaker 1: and foremost, we tend to overlook the fact that some
Speaker 1: of this is actually biological. Some of it's actually um
Speaker 1: a survival mechanism. A lot of our anxiety, for example,
Speaker 1: is actually triggered by our brain's way of thinking it
Speaker 1: needs to keep us safe. So we have what we
Speaker 1: call in therapy and negativity by us. That's the way
Speaker 1: that our brain works, And so we tend to be
Speaker 1: Why are to be looking out for danger at all times? Right?
Speaker 1: And so you can imagine a million years ago that
Speaker 1: might have looked like, is there a tiger in the bushes,
Speaker 1: It's going to jump out and eat me? Right, But
Speaker 1: our brains don't evolve that quickly, and so now here
Speaker 1: we are still scanning our environment for constant threats and
Speaker 1: constant danger and always being ten steps ahead looking out
Speaker 1: for this might happen, This could happen, And yet we
Speaker 1: don't have tigers in the bushes jumping out to eat
Speaker 1: us anymore. And so a lot of people don't realize
Speaker 1: that you're working against biology. I don't say that to like,
Speaker 1: you know, say it's impossible. I just say that almost
Speaker 1: rather to give you compassion for the fact that it's
Speaker 1: hard and it's hard for reason. Okay, okay, So that
Speaker 1: being said, mindfulness it's a word that you know, you're
Speaker 1: mindfulness coach. What does that mean in in contrast to
Speaker 1: this biological kind of battle that we're already battling. What
Speaker 1: is mindfulness and why is that kind of the term
Speaker 1: that we've we've coined for being present? Right? So the
Speaker 1: best definition of mindfulness is um one that John cabots
Speaker 1: In It really came up with. He's one of the
Speaker 1: leaders in the mindfulness field. Uh, And he says mindfulness
Speaker 1: is being aware of the present moment as what's going
Speaker 1: on right now at any given moment, and doing it
Speaker 1: without judgment. So it's not just enough to be aware
Speaker 1: and present with what's happening now, whether that's physically what's
Speaker 1: happening around you, whether that's the body sensations, whether that's
Speaker 1: the emotions, whether that's the thoughts, but it's also doing
Speaker 1: it without judgment. Oh okay, Okay. We were talking Catherine
Speaker 1: and I before, and we did I like to do
Speaker 1: a bit of research on on our guests that we have.
Speaker 1: And I saw you recently posted this this quote, dealing
Speaker 1: with the dropped shoe is less paralyzing apparently than waiting
Speaker 1: for the shoe to drop, um. And I was thinking
Speaker 1: of that as you were explaining the biological sense of
Speaker 1: back in the day, they were worried you had to
Speaker 1: look over your shoulder because there could be an absolute
Speaker 1: destruction of your whole life right behind you. Kind Of
Speaker 1: when I read it, that's what I kind of picked
Speaker 1: up on, is like, Yeah, now in today's world, we've
Speaker 1: worried so much. It's like, oh my gosh, what if
Speaker 1: I spilled that glass of water? What if I spill
Speaker 1: that glass of water? And it's often a bigger mess
Speaker 1: than cleaning up a spilled glass of water itself. Why
Speaker 1: do you think that is? And and what are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that old thing? Well, and I think that
Speaker 1: actually speaks to what you were saying earlier about anticipatory anxiety, right.
Speaker 1: And that quote is actually by Glenn and Doyle from
Speaker 1: her new book Untamed, which is phenomenal if you haven't
Speaker 1: read it. Um. And she talks about how for many
Speaker 1: of us, we work ourselves so much up, Like you
Speaker 1: were saying, what the glass of water that might get
Speaker 1: spilled that if I'm so worried that I'm going to
Speaker 1: spill this glass of water, I'm never going to actually
Speaker 1: drink the glass of water right and enjoy how amazingly
Speaker 1: refreshing that glass of water could actually be, right, because
Speaker 1: I'm terrified I'm going to spill it. And so if
Speaker 1: you think about it in that way, it's like, how
Speaker 1: many wonderful, amazing, scary, life giving, life affirming opportunities and
Speaker 1: experiences are we missing out on because we're so terrified
Speaker 1: of what could possibly happen that we don't even ever
Speaker 1: allow ourselves to experience those things. Okay, And I think
Speaker 1: the thing that's crazy to me is the one connection
Speaker 1: that I find, at least through all mental health issues,
Speaker 1: through all mental illnesses, is the lack of being present.
Speaker 1: You know, like I had said in that quote that said,
Speaker 1: you know, if if you're depressed, you're often living in
Speaker 1: the past, if you're anxious, you're often living in the future.
Speaker 1: But regardless, if you are dealing with any form of
Speaker 1: mental health issues, you know, one of the immediate side
Speaker 1: effects of that is the lack of being present. And
Speaker 1: that's in all things, that's it. That's not only in
Speaker 1: like the bad times, that's in the good times. You know.
Speaker 1: I remember my first panic attack ever. I had at
Speaker 1: Disney World with my family on a paid vacation with
Speaker 1: a Disney guide and like we were doing like it
Speaker 1: was an absolute dream vacation, and I had one of
Speaker 1: my worst panic attacks. And I think back on that
Speaker 1: a lot, especially as we're talking about being present and
Speaker 1: I was so not there? Why is it hard to
Speaker 1: stay present? Like? How how is it that hard even
Speaker 1: in the good times? Why is it? Why is it
Speaker 1: hard to escape even when you're happy and you're in
Speaker 1: a place where you should be enjoying life to the fullest. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that it's actually a little bit of that
Speaker 1: quote that you read from Glenn and Doyle that I posted.
Speaker 1: I think it's like this, When things are bad, we're
Speaker 1: hoping and wishing they were good. When things are good,
Speaker 1: we're waiting for the other shoe to drop and for
Speaker 1: them to be bad. Right, And so it's like we're
Speaker 1: always in this place of like what if, what if?
Speaker 1: What if? Um, and we're never actually just able to
Speaker 1: be in that moment of whatever is going on. Right.
Speaker 1: And I think the reality is for most of us,
Speaker 1: we you know, like I said, we do have a
Speaker 1: negativity bias that it's it's a neurobiological thing, but part
Speaker 1: of it is we are so uncomfortable with being uncomfortable, right,
Speaker 1: that we will do anything that we possibly can to
Speaker 1: not feel the fields, to not feel the anxiety, to
Speaker 1: not feel the sadness, the overwhelmed, the anger, all the
Speaker 1: things that we would say quote unquote or negative emotions, right,
Speaker 1: And so usually we're trying to push those away and
Speaker 1: we're trying to focus on something else. The problem is
Speaker 1: is that we cannot kind of selective numb or selectively
Speaker 1: drown out. So what I mean by that is when
Speaker 1: you think about let's say like alcohol, for example, if
Speaker 1: I'm drinking alcohol, I can't only numb the bad, I
Speaker 1: also numb the good. So it's similar in the way
Speaker 1: that we wire our brains. If I'm wiring my brain
Speaker 1: to always be I don't want to be in the negative.
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to pay attention to something else
Speaker 1: and not be present with what's going on. It feels yucky.
Speaker 1: It's gonna also kind of bite you in the ass.
Speaker 1: On the other side, too, because then you're also not
Speaker 1: going to be present in the positive as well. It's
Speaker 1: a muscle. You've got to strengthen it for good and bad.
Speaker 1: That sucks, I mean, like it's hard. Doesn't that suck?
Speaker 1: Like you can't just like there's not two off switches.
Speaker 1: There's like one off switch. You turn it all off
Speaker 1: or you turn it all on. And this is like, ah,
Speaker 1: but that's the that's the idea of being fully human, right, Like,
Speaker 1: you can't be fully human if you don't get both
Speaker 1: bad and good, light and dark, right cold and hot,
Speaker 1: Like you can't. You can't. I want to switch from
Speaker 1: wearing your psychologists had in your mindfulness coach had. I
Speaker 1: want to turn it into a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a human converse station. What got you into this? You know,
Speaker 1: like what led you here is that? Was it your
Speaker 1: own experiences? Was it seeing other people and trying to
Speaker 1: find a way to help tell me more about your
Speaker 1: own story? All of the above, really, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: for me it was through my own work. So up
Speaker 1: until it's not that therapy was ever taboo, and my
Speaker 1: family we just never really talked about mental health. I
Speaker 1: mean I definitely kind of grew up in a family
Speaker 1: and a town that was very like, you know, blue collar,
Speaker 1: pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: in a bad place, just get through it kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And when I moved to New York actually to be
Speaker 1: a TV producer when I was young, I was in
Speaker 1: my early twenties, I remember that I was just kind
Speaker 1: of angry and like piste off and agitated all the time.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even actually realize that until a good
Speaker 1: friend of mine kind of put the mirror up to
Speaker 1: me and called me out on it. And I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure why, and so I ended up actually taking her
Speaker 1: referral going to see her therapist and had this experience
Speaker 1: where I was ten minutes into meeting this woman for
Speaker 1: the first time, and she opened my eyes to something
Speaker 1: that was a relationship baseding that I had struggled with
Speaker 1: kind of my whole life, and it just melted me
Speaker 1: and changed my entire world. And I remember from that
Speaker 1: moment on just being insatiably curious about my inner workings,
Speaker 1: like how things you know, develop, childhood stuff like all
Speaker 1: the things. And I just fell down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: And so through that, I said, oh, I want to
Speaker 1: do what you do, but I hadn't gotten to that
Speaker 1: place yet. I went, Oh, I want to teach yoga,
Speaker 1: and so I got my teacher training and then I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I want to do yoga therapy, and
Speaker 1: so I did that, and then I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna take an attrition program. Oh I'm gonna take a
Speaker 1: mindfulness base kind into therapy. I basically was like collecting,
Speaker 1: you know, certifications like Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts, your kid,
Speaker 1: just collecting the badges over and over. And you know,
Speaker 1: it helped me so much because over those years of
Speaker 1: taking like collecting those badges, my whole life changed in
Speaker 1: the sense of I got more present, I got more calm,
Speaker 1: I became more grateful. I became just happier. And it's
Speaker 1: not like happy. I hate when we say this thing
Speaker 1: of like I want to be happy, as if happy
Speaker 1: is something that's like tangible on a shelf that I
Speaker 1: can reach for, right, But I knew that I was
Speaker 1: happier because I was I was more present in my life.
Speaker 1: I was more kind of aware of the good I was,
Speaker 1: you know, So it just it changed my entire being.
Speaker 1: And then through that I just said, you know what,
Speaker 1: I want to give this to other people. I want
Speaker 1: people to understand that, yes, it's it's tough work to
Speaker 1: be present constantly and ship nobody's good at it, not
Speaker 1: even me. Um, It's worth the work because it can
Speaker 1: alter your entire existence. And so from there I decided, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to grad school. And like
Speaker 1: my thirties, I left a relationship, moved across the country
Speaker 1: by myself, landed in l A, was going to school
Speaker 1: full time while working as a producer full time, and
Speaker 1: I just like did the grind and I made the
Speaker 1: I made the transition, and so wow, what a story.
Speaker 1: And I want to I just want to reiterate that
Speaker 1: one part though, where you gave in or you kind
Speaker 1: of said all right and you started seeing a therapist
Speaker 1: and that breakthrough moment like you had mentioned. I think
Speaker 1: anybody who's really committed you a therapy is something where
Speaker 1: you get what you give if you really do commit
Speaker 1: and give to it. I think all three of us
Speaker 1: here Um and I can speak for Catherine just because
Speaker 1: we've had some great conversations already about it. It is
Speaker 1: so worth it. And I want to be like, we
Speaker 1: can be the voice today if you need it, if
Speaker 1: you've been waiting for a sign or or somebody to
Speaker 1: tell you go see a therapist. Like I've had moments
Speaker 1: where like I was like, I don't know about therapy,
Speaker 1: and then I go to therapy and my therapist just
Speaker 1: says one thing and it like unlocks the water fountain
Speaker 1: that is directly behind my eyeballs, and I just like
Speaker 1: cry my eye Like it's so good and it's so freeing.
Speaker 1: And I do think that the reason why I'm bringing
Speaker 1: this up is because it is about being present and
Speaker 1: in my ability because I've only recently started seeing a therapist.
Speaker 1: Being able to openly speak to somebody and know that
Speaker 1: your secrets are safe with them and you can say
Speaker 1: what you feel and tell them everything. It just makes
Speaker 1: it more possible to be present and to be there. Um,
Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing your story. I love that
Speaker 1: I have a I have an the thought that I've
Speaker 1: had in my head, which was I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever heard that quote, like thoughts think themselves, like
Speaker 1: they just come into your brain. How do you feel
Speaker 1: about that quote? You believe that is that true? Is
Speaker 1: it partially true? Partially true? It's partially true in the
Speaker 1: sense that like that's what our brains are there for, right,
Speaker 1: Like they're meant to think um. And so that's partially
Speaker 1: why when I work with people and they do the
Speaker 1: whole like, you know, I'm a I can't meditate, I'm
Speaker 1: a bad meditator. I can't clear my mind. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that's not possible. So anybody that's telling you that meditation
Speaker 1: is you need to clear your mind doesn't actually understand
Speaker 1: meditation um. And So really what meditation is, really what
Speaker 1: mindfulness is, is just being aware of what comes up
Speaker 1: without attaching yourself to it right without without again judgment.
Speaker 1: Judgment can mean putting a positive or a negative label
Speaker 1: on something right, and so it's all about just seeing
Speaker 1: the thoughts come up and then allowing them to pass
Speaker 1: by without getting swept away in the story of them.
Speaker 1: Your thoughts are gonna think, your brain is gonna think,
Speaker 1: they're gonna pop up. You can't stop that. And I
Speaker 1: love that because when I if you download any of
Speaker 1: the meditation naps, the first thing that they teach you,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like watching cars on a freeway and
Speaker 1: you like let them common, you let them go. That
Speaker 1: being said, thoughts can often then lead to feelings, and
Speaker 1: a lot of people I think that there's like a
Speaker 1: pretty common concept of like control your feelings. You have
Speaker 1: control of your feelings, or you have control of your thoughts.
Speaker 1: Where do you stand in that giant mix? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean it is true that thoughts create feelings and
Speaker 1: then feelings create thoughts. So it actually is a cycle, right,
Speaker 1: And so once we get ourselves into this kind of loop,
Speaker 1: you can actually picture the circle of it just continuing
Speaker 1: to go. It's really hard to get out, right, So
Speaker 1: there is a little bit of in the mindfulness practice.
Speaker 1: It is the better you get, the stronger that muscle gets,
Speaker 1: that you being able to watch what's coming up, whether
Speaker 1: it's a thought or a feeling or a sensation in
Speaker 1: the body and kind of allowing it to pass through
Speaker 1: without attaching to it. Right, The stronger you make that muscle,
Speaker 1: the easier it actually becomes for you when you do
Speaker 1: get swept up, because you will we all do. Rather
Speaker 1: than being like an hour into like a session of
Speaker 1: like obsessing about something and all of a sudden being like,
Speaker 1: holy sh it, it's been an hour, you might do
Speaker 1: it twenty minutes into obsessing about something, or five minutes
Speaker 1: in or maybe eventually it's like in the moment you're like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not following that path, and you actually
Speaker 1: start to be able to in a in a sense,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of control your thoughts just because you're
Speaker 1: not allowing them to kind of take you for a ride.
Speaker 1: So it's more like it's more like a dog hurting
Speaker 1: cattle than it is like hurting kittens. Something like, yes,
Speaker 1: this is perfect. Um, So another thing I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: because we did our research, I actually have you saying
Speaker 1: that you can't grow and evolve if you can't notice
Speaker 1: and be aware. I think that that is something that
Speaker 1: definitely can debilitate your growth as a human if you
Speaker 1: are stuck and unable to be present. Um, And that's
Speaker 1: the first step, which is mindfulness. Why is it that
Speaker 1: being present is so integral to personal growth? I mean,
Speaker 1: what I would say to that is, if I can't
Speaker 1: be present with what's coming up for me. Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's say it's anxiety. If I can't be truly present
Speaker 1: to the anxiety, and I can't be truly present to, um,
Speaker 1: the sensations that the anxiety creates in my body and
Speaker 1: the thoughts that kind of then spring up from that
Speaker 1: feeling of anxiety. If I'm not able to sit back
Speaker 1: and watch what's going on and kind of dissect it
Speaker 1: in a way, I won't ever really be able to
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of what's creating and causing the anxiety. Right,
Speaker 1: So I'm always just going to be again along for
Speaker 1: the ride. You know. Part of this is I don't
Speaker 1: like to use the word control, right, but it is
Speaker 1: part of it. Like you do have to be able
Speaker 1: to understand what's underneath it, and then what's underneath that,
Speaker 1: and then what's underneath that. Right, So it's like backing
Speaker 1: yourself into every layer. Um, And if I don't know
Speaker 1: what this first layer is and I'm not present with
Speaker 1: that first layer, how the heck am I going to
Speaker 1: get to the layer underneath or the lay underneath that.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that makes so much sense. And I've never
Speaker 1: even heard anybody explain it like that, but it makes
Speaker 1: so much sense. I'm going to assume that you have
Speaker 1: some incredible tips and tricks and advice for people to
Speaker 1: get started. But I'm gonna make the listener wait, you
Speaker 1: gotta wait until we come back. We're gonna be back.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break, and at the very end
Speaker 1: of this, we're gonna have some advice from all three
Speaker 1: of us, but most importantly from Vanessa Bennett. Vanessa, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for all of your advice for telling
Speaker 1: your story. We're gonna be right back, and when I
Speaker 1: get back, I'll be talking with Catherine about mindfulness and distraction.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. All right, we are back. This is
Speaker 1: Let's Get into It. I'm alex Iono and we just
Speaker 1: had a great conversation Vanessa Bennett and I about what
Speaker 1: it means to be mindful and why it's important to
Speaker 1: be mindful. And now I have one of my very
Speaker 1: very good friends and the producer of Let's Get into It,
Speaker 1: Catherine Law here, and we're gonna be talking about mindfulness
Speaker 1: and distraction. But how are you, Katherine. I'm so good.
Speaker 1: I'm less distracted today. I've had my coffee, I'm on it,
Speaker 1: I'm in it. It's great. So when I love that.
Speaker 1: But when we talk about what episodes I wanted to do,
Speaker 1: you know, we had talked about, okay, the importance of
Speaker 1: being mindful. One that's about being present, and at first
Speaker 1: I kind of came from my view, which was having
Speaker 1: anxiety or having depression and dealing with it, but a
Speaker 1: part of that is not being present. It actually kind
Speaker 1: of unfolded, and we talked about other people who have
Speaker 1: other ailments that that lead to not being able to
Speaker 1: be present, including a d h D. And I was
Speaker 1: I asked you as like, do we know anybody who
Speaker 1: has a d h D. And I was like, and you,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's courageous the fact that you wanted
Speaker 1: to come out here and and talk. I thought it
Speaker 1: was so important to have that because it's true. I
Speaker 1: really do feel like the common denominator of the through
Speaker 1: line through all mental illnesses and mental health issues is
Speaker 1: that everybody is dealing with something that makes it so
Speaker 1: that they have a harder time being present. Can you
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your you know, how
Speaker 1: you realized or how you came to the conclusion or
Speaker 1: were diagnosed with a d h D. Well. I sort
Speaker 1: of like in high school, I would say, and as
Speaker 1: a kid sort of like had an inkling that that
Speaker 1: was something that was going on with me because my
Speaker 1: dad had been diagnosed, my little brother had been diagnosed
Speaker 1: as well, and just noticed like a lot of the
Speaker 1: same things going on with myself. Um distract ability and
Speaker 1: a lot of jumping from thought to thought, and as
Speaker 1: I got older, I really wasn't diagnosed until I was
Speaker 1: an adult. And one of the things that got me
Speaker 1: really interested in figuring out all the ways that this
Speaker 1: affected me was a Mastermind group that I was in
Speaker 1: back in my days of being a marketer UM. I
Speaker 1: was in a group with a lot of other super
Speaker 1: successful entrepreneurs. In that group of these like ultra successful
Speaker 1: people who are like all like geeks, breaks and weirdos,
Speaker 1: like a bunch of like very quirky personalities like them
Speaker 1: were like, oh yeah, I was diagnosed too. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I was diagnosed too. And so it sort of became
Speaker 1: like a celebratory thing in this group where it's like
Speaker 1: I finally got my diagnosis and already would be like, yeay,
Speaker 1: it's amazing, and so there, you know, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of good things and we'll talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about this too, but there are so many good things
Speaker 1: about it as well. It you have these moments of
Speaker 1: creativity and you get to be spontaneous and all kinds
Speaker 1: of good things like that. But that was sort of
Speaker 1: what led me to making it official, was being in
Speaker 1: this group where it was like, hey, we've all got
Speaker 1: a d h D. But we're like having a great
Speaker 1: time and you know, creative business people and whatever. So yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean I love that, and I think that's something
Speaker 1: that's in the biggest picture. A big goal of mine
Speaker 1: for this podcast is to help but continue normalizing mental
Speaker 1: health issues and even to the point, like you said, like,
Speaker 1: let's normalize it so much so that we celebrate the
Speaker 1: fact that we finally figured out what's going on with us.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like it's like if if your car
Speaker 1: was broken, you couldn't figure out what it was and
Speaker 1: you finally realized there's a nail in the tire. It
Speaker 1: sucks that there's a nail in the tire, but like
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, we can finally fix it. We know
Speaker 1: exactly how to fix it, exactly what to do. And
Speaker 1: like you had mentioned, there are still benefits Like there
Speaker 1: I saw a post on Instagram that was about like
Speaker 1: all of the positive things about having depression, and it
Speaker 1: was talking about you have a larger space to hold
Speaker 1: empathy and sympathy for others, and you can relate to
Speaker 1: people and you feel things a little bit more, and
Speaker 1: there are benefits to these things, especially once you can
Speaker 1: handle them, then it's truly it can get to a
Speaker 1: point where it's only benefits. Like you are, it's a superpower.
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say it, Like you
Speaker 1: have the ability to feel things in ways that others can't,
Speaker 1: And there's so many benefits having a d h D.
Speaker 1: What are the benefits that you see, Like you had
Speaker 1: mentioned spurts of of creativity or sponsor name. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean for me, I think I joke with my husband
Speaker 1: all the time that like he would be so bored
Speaker 1: in life if he wasn't married to me with a
Speaker 1: d h D because I'm spontaneous. Like the other day.
Speaker 1: The other day, I was like, can we just get
Speaker 1: like pizza and ice cream for dinner? And he was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we can, And so we like drove to our favorite
Speaker 1: pizza place. It's like thirty minutes away, but we drove
Speaker 1: to Pizzaan in West Hollywood, picked up like the most
Speaker 1: delicious pizza of all time, came back looped around by
Speaker 1: Jenny's ice Cream here and in Yeah, and I had
Speaker 1: pizza and ice But it's like, you know, we had
Speaker 1: some boring coronavirus pandemic night planned, and I was just like,
Speaker 1: let's make an adventure happen right now exactly. And I
Speaker 1: love that so much. I mean, I feel like it
Speaker 1: really is you have the you have the option, the
Speaker 1: opportunity to reach a level of instant spontane that instant creativity,
Speaker 1: that spark of like really like when people say, like
Speaker 1: the spark of inspiration, that's what it sounds like, and
Speaker 1: so um. There are definitely benefits of it, and I
Speaker 1: think that that it is something that we continue to normalize,
Speaker 1: and not only normalize, continue to celebrate going to see
Speaker 1: a doctor saying these are what's going on. Getting that
Speaker 1: solution as soon as my as soon as my therapist
Speaker 1: told me, hey, you have an anticipatory anxiety, I was
Speaker 1: like like I was literally like got it. I'm glad,
Speaker 1: like I know what's going on. Like it just made
Speaker 1: it easier for me to when I'm feeling something, when
Speaker 1: I'm feeling the bad part of it, like I getting
Speaker 1: just or I have an anxiety attack, at least know
Speaker 1: exactly what it is. I go, hey, this is anticipatory anxiety.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna knock it out right now. These are my
Speaker 1: tricks that I was told to do, and then you
Speaker 1: get it done and then you celebrate, like you really
Speaker 1: treat yourself to it. Yeah, And my dad always says
Speaker 1: you can't manage what you don't measure, and I feel like,
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's Mr Law. Mr Law. He's
Speaker 1: actually like a brilliant human um, but he always says
Speaker 1: you can't manage what you don't measure, and I feel
Speaker 1: like that's so much what we're talking about right now.
Speaker 1: It's like when you put a label on it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's not like you are like, oh cool, I have
Speaker 1: eight HD I'm gonna figure out how to deal with
Speaker 1: this and it's all great. No, you learn tools, and
Speaker 1: you have this process where you continually try to enact
Speaker 1: those tools and you get better with practice. It doesn't
Speaker 1: just happen overnight. But you know, like Vanessa was saying,
Speaker 1: with like, maybe you cut that time down from an
Speaker 1: hour to twenty minutes down to five minutes when you
Speaker 1: can react and and put your tools into place to
Speaker 1: keep it going on the right path. So in your
Speaker 1: own personal experience, since we are we, I do want
Speaker 1: to address the full realm of AD. Yeah, do you
Speaker 1: feel like you're able to be present since your mind
Speaker 1: is constantly racing around since your mind is shifting and
Speaker 1: it can change on it and you know, switch on
Speaker 1: the dime. Um, I would say yes and no, and
Speaker 1: this is why I'm going to say both of those.
Speaker 1: On the one hand, I feel like I'm super present
Speaker 1: a lot of the time because my brain is wherever
Speaker 1: my brain is right So even if my brain is
Speaker 1: skipping around, I'm like, okay, now, I'm like supert with
Speaker 1: this other, like part of the conversation I'm having, or
Speaker 1: this new topic that I'm bringing up. Like that's a
Speaker 1: lot of what happens is like let's switch topics now,
Speaker 1: But I'm following my own track and so I'm like
Speaker 1: super present with wherever I am right then, one thing
Speaker 1: that happens is that I can't like stay on that
Speaker 1: track for as long as I might like. So, for example,
Speaker 1: where that becomes problematic is like if I'm listening to
Speaker 1: instructions like I used to do in normal times, I
Speaker 1: used to do a lot of improv and if I
Speaker 1: was taking a class, I'd be super into it, so
Speaker 1: much fun, It's all great. The second that the instructor
Speaker 1: would start explaining a drill or an exercise that we're
Speaker 1: going to do, my brain would be somewhere else, right,
Speaker 1: so my brain and it wasn't like it's not a choice.
Speaker 1: It was just like the second those instructions start happening,
Speaker 1: my my brain is gone. It's out the window until
Speaker 1: the moment where they're like, okay, let's start the exercise
Speaker 1: and I have no idea what we're doing. And so
Speaker 1: for a long time, my coping mechanism was, Okay, you
Speaker 1: just aren't in the first pair of people out because
Speaker 1: you need to see what they're doing so you can
Speaker 1: try and figure out what you're supposed to be doing
Speaker 1: right now. And one of the tools I've learned to
Speaker 1: implement is just asking for what I need, just saying like, okay,
Speaker 1: can you like just repeat that in like two seconds?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, can you just give
Speaker 1: us like a one sentence version of what that is
Speaker 1: um or just like condense it, or just even verifying
Speaker 1: and clarifying and saying, okay, so we're doing X, Y,
Speaker 1: and Z. Now if I've sort of picked it up
Speaker 1: and and and it helps, and it helps a couple
Speaker 1: of other ways that it affects me is I'll have
Speaker 1: like little piles of things everywhere I'm I'm one of
Speaker 1: my things in quarantine as I'm trying to be more tidy,
Speaker 1: so that's been a little bit better, but I leave
Speaker 1: little piles of things everywhere, and it also manifests itself
Speaker 1: in like being fifteen minutes late anywhere I'm going. I
Speaker 1: really have a difficult time knowing how long things take.
Speaker 1: But you know, one of the other things, and this
Speaker 1: is sort of like a blessing and a curse that
Speaker 1: comes for me that comes along with my a d
Speaker 1: h D is hyper focus. So one thing that can
Speaker 1: happen is like, yes, you're hanging around, and it can
Speaker 1: be really hard to be present. But also like hyper
Speaker 1: focus is something that a lot of people with a
Speaker 1: d h D have as well, So it's like my
Speaker 1: brain goes in there and it can be like two
Speaker 1: three hours later and I have no idea how much
Speaker 1: time has gone by. It's difficult to get myself to
Speaker 1: the point where I start a project. But once I'm
Speaker 1: in the project, I mean like someone can be talking
Speaker 1: to me, other things can be going on around me,
Speaker 1: but I I'm I'm somewhere else, like I'm hyper hyper
Speaker 1: hyper focused. So it's it's really interesting to try and
Speaker 1: manage like getting into like forcing yourself to get into
Speaker 1: hyper focus when you have to get something done. Um.
Speaker 1: But then like it's also a really good tool for
Speaker 1: the most part to be able to get things done
Speaker 1: when you when you do crossover in a hyper focus. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to talk. I want to talk little bit
Speaker 1: about that in the sense of how that that little
Speaker 1: piles everywhere. And every time you said little piles everywhere,
Speaker 1: I just thought of little fires everywhere the show, and
Speaker 1: I just thought of like a whole parody of that
Speaker 1: exact thing. But it's just about and it's just it's
Speaker 1: just little piles everywhere. But the thing is they say
Speaker 1: that a d h D and anxiety actually go hand
Speaker 1: in hand, and when you're not on the nice side,
Speaker 1: when you're not on the hyper focus side or the
Speaker 1: positive side or the I'm so glad I got I
Speaker 1: figured out what's going on side. I think that you
Speaker 1: can build more thoughts and feelings of anxiety when you
Speaker 1: let the d h D kind of control you instead
Speaker 1: of you controlling that. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, I mean for me, the anxiety happens
Speaker 1: with its cyclical thinking is a huge one for me,
Speaker 1: it's a sort of thing where like I can be
Speaker 1: going throughout my day and if there's anything that I'm
Speaker 1: like worried about, my brain will be like, hey, remember
Speaker 1: this thing you should be worried about, and it's it's terrible,
Speaker 1: especially if it's like one of those things that feels
Speaker 1: like a gut punch, you know, you just like get
Speaker 1: that awful feeling in your stomach. And so for that specifically,
Speaker 1: one tool that works for me. It doesn't work for everybody,
Speaker 1: but it works for me is to like kind of
Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier, noticing the thought and letting
Speaker 1: it pass by. Um. But for me, one thing that
Speaker 1: helps is I noticed the thought. Okay, that's not something
Speaker 1: that I can do anything about right now. Thank the
Speaker 1: thought for coming. Saying like, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: I understand you're just trying to prepare me for whatever.
Speaker 1: Thing like if it's a meaning, if it's whatever, Um,
Speaker 1: a discussion you have to have with a friend like
Speaker 1: thank you for being here, thank you for stopping by.
Speaker 1: I don't need you right now, so I'm gonna put
Speaker 1: you in a little box. And I like, this is
Speaker 1: so goofy, But I literally envisioned myself like putting that
Speaker 1: thought into a box, closing the lid on the box,
Speaker 1: making the box tiny, and putting it on a shelf.
Speaker 1: So I have to do it, usually several times times,
Speaker 1: but it is one of those things that helps me
Speaker 1: sort of get rid of those cyclical thoughts or at
Speaker 1: least less in their effect, and be like cool, I
Speaker 1: can't help this situation right now, so I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: put it on a shelf until the time comes that
Speaker 1: I actually can deal with it. No, I love that,
Speaker 1: And again, like, we're going to save all of our
Speaker 1: tips and tricks, like all of our special ones, because
Speaker 1: I have a bunch, and I know that Vanessa has
Speaker 1: a bunch, and I know you have a bunch. We're
Speaker 1: gonna save that for the next segment. But before we
Speaker 1: take a break, um, I want you to address something specifically,
Speaker 1: just because you've mentioned it, that sometimes your brain can
Speaker 1: just fly boom boom boom a thousand miles per hour.
Speaker 1: You have a couple of tips and tricks that you
Speaker 1: regularly practice. What do you do when none of them work?
Speaker 1: When it's just I have done everything, I've tried meditation,
Speaker 1: I've tried my little box thing. When it's just nothing
Speaker 1: is working, What's what's your go to? Um? You can
Speaker 1: hear Mimsy parking in the background, by the way, she
Speaker 1: just got back from the vet. Um. Yeah, but uh,
Speaker 1: when nothing is working, especially with if I'm anxious about
Speaker 1: something or whatever, it's a little bit like, let's do
Speaker 1: a hard restart on this brain right now. One of
Speaker 1: the people from my my Mastermind group had said about
Speaker 1: specifically a d h D symptoms. He was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're going to find that you can spend all day
Speaker 1: worrying about the thing that has to happen, or worrying
Speaker 1: about the thing, whatever the thing is. You finally get
Speaker 1: the thing done at the last minute, or you deal
Speaker 1: with the thing at the last minute and you're actually
Speaker 1: are going to do your best work at the last
Speaker 1: minute because that's how your brain works. But until that time,
Speaker 1: you can either spend all day worrying about the thing,
Speaker 1: not dealing with the problem, whatever it may be. You
Speaker 1: might as well instead of spending all day blustering about
Speaker 1: it and fretting about it and getting anxiety about it, like,
Speaker 1: go take a nap, go do something else, go read
Speaker 1: a book for a while. Basically, go do a hard
Speaker 1: reason you're not going to do it until later. You're
Speaker 1: not going to deal with it until later anyway, and
Speaker 1: you're also going to do your best work when you
Speaker 1: deal with it later. So just go do something else
Speaker 1: and like take a load off and like live your life.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's what a nap helps. I love that.
Speaker 1: A nice, a nice little nap never does you wrong. Listen, guys,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be right back. When we get back. We
Speaker 1: got way more tips. We're talking about next level mindfulness.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, yo, what's up. It's alex Iono and
Speaker 1: I am here with Vanessa Bennett and Catherine Law and
Speaker 1: we're talking about next level mindfulness. I want to start
Speaker 1: off with this statistic that I found. According to a
Speaker 1: two thousand eight study, seventy eight percent of adults with
Speaker 1: a d h D noticed a reduction in symptoms when
Speaker 1: they practice mindfulness meditation and noticed a significant reduction in symptoms. Vanessa,
Speaker 1: how does that like track with what you've seen in
Speaker 1: your own clients when they start practicing mindfulness? Yes, I
Speaker 1: mean a thousand percent. Yes, So mindfulness is one of
Speaker 1: those things where I would say, like ten years ago,
Speaker 1: it kind of became like cool buzzword. Right, And UM,
Speaker 1: what I've been very grateful to see is that there
Speaker 1: have been a ton of studies in the psychology world
Speaker 1: of the benefits of kind of layering mindfulness on top
Speaker 1: of pretty much any other modality that you work with. UM.
Speaker 1: And and actually the research based like the backing that
Speaker 1: shows just how efficient it can be, UM and how
Speaker 1: it can actually level up anything that you're already doing.
Speaker 1: So we were saying it earlier actually when you were
Speaker 1: talking to Catherine. It's like it is one of those
Speaker 1: things that by not being present, you're exacerbating probably almost
Speaker 1: anything else going on for you. Right, So if we
Speaker 1: can get present even in trauma work, like not to
Speaker 1: totally throw that curveball in there, but you would think like, oh,
Speaker 1: this horrible thing happened. Right, Let's say I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm a veteran, I don't want to think about it,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be there. Well, mindfulness work actually
Speaker 1: is part of working through that traumatic experience, right. So, UM,
Speaker 1: you can see how being present and working with whatever
Speaker 1: comes up and allowing your body, by the way your body,
Speaker 1: your mind, whatever, to digest the thing that's coming up. Right,
Speaker 1: That's why it's so important, and that's why it does
Speaker 1: have two huge benefits. So with a d D, a
Speaker 1: d h D as well. Actually, I think Katherine said
Speaker 1: up about it being going hand in hand with anxiety.
Speaker 1: And so the way that I've actually seen and I've
Speaker 1: been trained, so my backgrounds in depth psychology, which is
Speaker 1: a little bit more based in the unconscious world, and
Speaker 1: what the way that we look at things like a
Speaker 1: d h D depression, anxiety, A lot of these are
Speaker 1: manifestations of something that's going on at more of a
Speaker 1: soul level. Right, So a d h D is actually
Speaker 1: a symptom of it's a byproduct of something else that's
Speaker 1: going on. Right. It's your body's where or your brain's
Speaker 1: way of again making a defense mechanism, right in order
Speaker 1: to help you get out of what ever is happening
Speaker 1: with you. Uh. And So for me, I would look
Speaker 1: at a d h D and I would say, okay,
Speaker 1: working mindfully right, let's get in, Let's figure out what's
Speaker 1: going on underneath it. Let's figure out why your brain
Speaker 1: is jumping from thought to thought to thought to thought,
Speaker 1: Like why does it not want to stay with this thought? That?
Speaker 1: That makes me think a lot about it makes me
Speaker 1: think a lot about the concept of controlling your mental
Speaker 1: health so that your mental health does not control you,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I have this issue, and
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have this issue. If not,
Speaker 1: then I'm just weird. But I have this issue where
Speaker 1: I can very often miss interpret staying focused and being
Speaker 1: present with doing something that that helps me relax or
Speaker 1: or gather myself, you know, reading a book or playing
Speaker 1: even a video game or watching a TV show, um,
Speaker 1: to relax, especially in a time like this. Uh. And
Speaker 1: and that kind of can be a distraction for me
Speaker 1: in a good way. Um, but I know that there's
Speaker 1: also distractions in a bad way and it can kind
Speaker 1: of knock you off the path more of diversions versus
Speaker 1: like good and healthy distractions. Where's the line? And this
Speaker 1: is open for for anybody to answer. What's the line?
Speaker 1: How can you have too much of a distraction? Can you?
Speaker 1: Can you kind of baby yourself a little bit too
Speaker 1: much and then you now your back off of being
Speaker 1: you know, being mindful, being present. What do you guys
Speaker 1: think For me? I sort of I get a little
Speaker 1: bit of a guilt complex if I'm like playing a
Speaker 1: video game or like a little stupid game on my phone.
Speaker 1: I love Two Dots. That's sort of, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: this checkers fun. But it's great, and like sometimes they
Speaker 1: have these little puzzles where you like fine things. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It's a dying game. Like there's literally like you can't
Speaker 1: shut the game down. There's one person playing and they
Speaker 1: live in low it's me. Yeah, they keep it open
Speaker 1: just for me. But I love Two Dots. I just
Speaker 1: like zen out and I listened to the like chill
Speaker 1: music and like the little bleeps and bloops For me.
Speaker 1: One of the things I liked about it in the
Speaker 1: very beginning was that like you could only play it
Speaker 1: for like ten minutes and then you would run out
Speaker 1: of lives. Well now they've sort of gotten around that
Speaker 1: because they realized they need to make money and have
Speaker 1: people keep playing their game. For me, it's like I
Speaker 1: have a little guilt around it sometimes and then I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I need to just like have a zen
Speaker 1: moment and like just think about nothing and just like
Speaker 1: do this stupid little thing that sort of relaxes me
Speaker 1: for a little bit what I'm trying to stop doing
Speaker 1: and what I'm working to like for me, the line
Speaker 1: is Okay, I'm walking my dog. I leave the apartment,
Speaker 1: I go to wait for the elevator, and what am
Speaker 1: I in the elevator for like ten seconds? Sometimes I'll
Speaker 1: find myself like opening that app or like opening Instagram
Speaker 1: or something, and I'm like, no, I don't need to
Speaker 1: just like distract myself for the ten seconds that it
Speaker 1: takes the elevator to go down to floor, you know whatever.
Speaker 1: So yeah, for me, that's the line, is am I
Speaker 1: using this as an escape or as something to change
Speaker 1: my mood? Because that's something that I find that I like,
Speaker 1: I'm like a little annoyed or something. I'll like turn
Speaker 1: it like open Instagram. I'm like okay, then I'm like
Speaker 1: thinking about something else. That for me is the line.
Speaker 1: Am I using this as like an escape from an
Speaker 1: emotion I'm feeling or just I need a shell for
Speaker 1: a minute? For a minute? Is fine? I like that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I've I've got a lot of thoughts I
Speaker 1: think swirling. But I think what you said Otherine is
Speaker 1: is pretty on point as far as like your line
Speaker 1: is being able to again, this takes awareness, right, Like
Speaker 1: what am I using it for? And you need to
Speaker 1: be able to be honest with yourself, right, Like if
Speaker 1: we're not going to be honest with ourselves and who
Speaker 1: is right? So it's like, if you know you're doing
Speaker 1: it to escape something, here's the thing. If you know that,
Speaker 1: and you can be honest about it, and you can say,
Speaker 1: I still want to do it for ten minutes because
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel this thing power to you
Speaker 1: do the thing right, and then in time minutes think
Speaker 1: about the thing as long as you're really being honest
Speaker 1: with what the reason is. Right, And I think, Alex,
Speaker 1: you actually said it earlier, this idea of something being
Speaker 1: your superpower. I always say that any of this stuff
Speaker 1: can be our superpower or kryptonite. It just depends on
Speaker 1: how you use it, right, Like what is that line?
Speaker 1: Is it controlling you or you controlling it? So to
Speaker 1: your point, Gathered, if you find yourself just automatically opening
Speaker 1: your phone, right to use scrolling as an apple because
Speaker 1: it's a great one that we all use nowadays, um
Speaker 1: without being mindful of the fact that you just whipped
Speaker 1: your phone out for no reason, you might want to
Speaker 1: stop and think about what you're doing right and and
Speaker 1: self care. To your point, Alex, it's like, look, sometimes
Speaker 1: sitting on the couch and like zoning out to TV.
Speaker 1: That can actually be self care, right, Sometimes we do
Speaker 1: just need to like turn it off, veg out, space out. Whatever.
Speaker 1: Would I call that being present? No, A thousand percent no,
Speaker 1: But what I still call it? Okay self care sometimes? Sure, Again,
Speaker 1: as long as it's not like controlling you, right, as
Speaker 1: long as you're still carving out the time to be
Speaker 1: present with what's going on, as long as you're being
Speaker 1: honest with yourself. You know, one of the things I
Speaker 1: tell clients actually is give it to yourself as a reward. So,
Speaker 1: especially with procrastination writer a D d UM, when I've
Speaker 1: worked the clients in the past, I'll say, set a
Speaker 1: timer on your phone for when you need to do
Speaker 1: homework or study or whatever it is. For let's say
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty minutes. When that timer goes off, no
Speaker 1: matter where you are in the process ding, you get
Speaker 1: five minutes or ten minutes of a reward, scrolling Instagram,
Speaker 1: getting up to get a snack, cleaning because for some
Speaker 1: people that's a good like anxiety burner, right, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: And then dang, when that five minutes is over, go
Speaker 1: back to doing what you gotta get done right. So
Speaker 1: sometimes these little things like zoning out can actually be
Speaker 1: a reward system for our brain too. I really like that.
Speaker 1: Now I want to shift it just a very little bit.
Speaker 1: We've spent this last hour talking about the importance of
Speaker 1: being present. We're also in the middle of a year
Speaker 1: that I think we all like to forget about and
Speaker 1: move on from as quickly as possible. Why should we
Speaker 1: be present right now? Mm hmm. Well, the first thing
Speaker 1: that came up for me is I don't want to
Speaker 1: miss it? Actually, how can we evolve into something better
Speaker 1: if we're not fully aware of the darkness of that
Speaker 1: yucky stuff, of that yucky side. Right. So in my
Speaker 1: world we call this the opposite of that spiritual bypassing
Speaker 1: m hm. So it's this idea that like positive vibes
Speaker 1: only I only like positive people in my life. I
Speaker 1: don't you know really what that is. It's like you
Speaker 1: can't I don't know if you guys saw. But the
Speaker 1: whole time that Va saying that she had just the
Speaker 1: most valley girl like l a blogger. That's why positive
Speaker 1: vibes only face. I just like channel my inner seventies,
Speaker 1: you know, hippie check, right, there um and and you know,
Speaker 1: while it's great to surround yourself with positive people and
Speaker 1: all the things, sometimes it is a way to bypass
Speaker 1: the work. It's a way to bypass the real real,
Speaker 1: which is like, actually every one of us has implicit bias.
Speaker 1: Actually this country was founded on racism. Actually, we all
Speaker 1: have bouts with depression, we all have negative thinking. We
Speaker 1: all whatever the thing is right, and you can't get
Speaker 1: away from that. And if you try to ignore it,
Speaker 1: like you're gonna miss it, right, And so, how do
Speaker 1: you learn your lessons? How do you integrate what you've
Speaker 1: learned if you just look away and skip over it
Speaker 1: and pretend like it's not there. I actually think there's
Speaker 1: so much value in being president with the yucky stuff. Wow,
Speaker 1: If that doesn't really get you to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I should start being present no matter what, then then
Speaker 1: I don't know what else we can say. I want
Speaker 1: to finally switch to this last I know everybody's been waiting.
Speaker 1: They want to know how to become more present. I
Speaker 1: want to start with my tip. I have one tip
Speaker 1: and I just do it all the time. I got
Speaker 1: it from my therapist and I share with everybody that
Speaker 1: I know. Um, but My tip to being present is
Speaker 1: every time I start thinking or catch myself not being
Speaker 1: president or worrying about something, I ask myself this question,
Speaker 1: Am I going to do something about it right now?
Speaker 1: Are you going to do something about like I really
Speaker 1: just has It's a real just kind of like like
Speaker 1: you said, Katherine, you just have those real questions you
Speaker 1: ask yourself and I just go, am I going to
Speaker 1: do something about it right now? And if my answer
Speaker 1: is yes, then I go, Okay, do it. And if
Speaker 1: my answer is no, then I go then stop then
Speaker 1: stop thinking about it, dealing with it later. And you
Speaker 1: kind of mentioned it, Katherine, you would say, hey, this
Speaker 1: is when it needs to be done, and you kind
Speaker 1: of put that schedule it together. I think that that's
Speaker 1: something that I do, UM and it really does help
Speaker 1: me be more present because I might be stressed about
Speaker 1: something that I have to do tomorrow or stressed about
Speaker 1: a podcast recording. I asked myself that question, and based
Speaker 1: off of the answer, I either move on from that
Speaker 1: thought and I try and focus or really enjoy whatever
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now UM or I or I do
Speaker 1: something about the thing that I'm worried about at the
Speaker 1: given moment. Katherine, you have any any tips? Two ones
Speaker 1: come to mind, and sort of to piggyback off of yours. Alex, like,
Speaker 1: there was one moment at the very beginning of the pandemic,
Speaker 1: and this is like before we were even wearing masks.
Speaker 1: It was like it was just walking Mimsie. I was depressed.
Speaker 1: It was like, what the hell is going on? I
Speaker 1: miss going to the office, I miss these you know,
Speaker 1: I miss my friends. I miss like just like bummed, right,
Speaker 1: hardcore bummed. And then I just had this moment of like,
Speaker 1: hold on a second, what's happening right now? I'm walking
Speaker 1: my dog, who I'm obsessed with. I am listening to
Speaker 1: a podcast. You know, this was part of like not
Speaker 1: being president was like distracted from what I was listening to,
Speaker 1: thinking of how sad I was. I'm walking my dog,
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast, and there's like a beautiful sunset happening.
Speaker 1: I'm literally doing all of my favorite things. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: okay right now, even if it sucks generally, maybe it's
Speaker 1: okay right now. So I guess like that tip is
Speaker 1: just being present, which is just do it, do it,
Speaker 1: just do it. Just the other the other tip I
Speaker 1: have Vanessa to go back to what you were saying
Speaker 1: about setting timers. That is something that I do of obsessively.
Speaker 1: Anytime an alarm goes off, my husband is like arbitrary alarm,
Speaker 1: because I set alarms for myself all day long. I
Speaker 1: gotta take the roast stud of the oven. I gotta
Speaker 1: do X, Y or Z, because I know I might
Speaker 1: get into that hyper focus or I might just like
Speaker 1: put water on the stove and then I forgot about it.
Speaker 1: So I always set an alarm. I always said, a timer,
Speaker 1: and something that actually helps me a lot with getting that,
Speaker 1: like a chunk of work done, or a chunk of
Speaker 1: something productive done, whether it's cleaning or working or whatever.
Speaker 1: There's an app called Forest. I think it's just called Forest.
Speaker 1: It's adorable. You go on there. You can set how
Speaker 1: long you want to set your time or for whether
Speaker 1: it's twenty five minutes, ninety minutes, whatever, and then it
Speaker 1: grows a little tree while you're being productive. You can't
Speaker 1: look at your phone or you kill the tree, which
Speaker 1: is a little bleak. I was like, and it only
Speaker 1: it kills that tree and every tree in the world. No,
Speaker 1: But then the nice thing is they actually go like
Speaker 1: like plant trees for you if you like earn enough
Speaker 1: coins like I r L plant trees in the world, so,
Speaker 1: which is great. And I have to like set my
Speaker 1: timer for longer than like the twenty five minutes because
Speaker 1: it takes me while. It's like get into that focus,
Speaker 1: and when I do, I need to keep it. So
Speaker 1: I do like a ninety minute often where I'll just
Speaker 1: be like okay, and then the bell rings and I
Speaker 1: get to go do something else for a while. I
Speaker 1: love that. I love that, Vanessa, You're obviously the expert here,
Speaker 1: So give us your tips. Take us home with some
Speaker 1: really fired Okay, Okay, I've got a couple of ones
Speaker 1: that are that are doable, right. So one of them,
Speaker 1: um this idea you know, you said Alex about like
Speaker 1: I'm kind of thinking about something I have to do tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Like I know a lot of people, It's like I
Speaker 1: can't get to sleep, I'm tossing and turning. I'm stressed
Speaker 1: out about this thing. Um. So, one of the tips
Speaker 1: that I have found helpful for myself and then I
Speaker 1: actually use with clients a lot is scheduling worry time.
Speaker 1: So when you find yourself being kind of overwhelmed by worry,
Speaker 1: maybe you're you know, tossing and turning at night. Whatever,
Speaker 1: get out of bed. If let's say it's happening before bed,
Speaker 1: get out of bed. Set five minutes on your timer,
Speaker 1: pull out your journal or a piece of paper, and
Speaker 1: talk to yourself literally, say to yourself, okay, brain, you've
Speaker 1: got five minutes to get it all out right. We
Speaker 1: can't do anything about it right now, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: let you have your moment right. Set the timer and
Speaker 1: give yourself five minutes and just write down all the
Speaker 1: things that are swirling and bouncing and keeping you awake.
Speaker 1: When that tim or goes off, it's you say to
Speaker 1: yourself again, Okay, you've had your five minutes. We'll worry
Speaker 1: about this tomorrow. The list is here, it's all out
Speaker 1: of my brain. Now it's time to sleep. And so
Speaker 1: there's this idea of scheduling worry time, and it could
Speaker 1: be really helpful when you find yourself overwhelmed with worry.
Speaker 1: So that's awesome. I love that. Okay, and you said
Speaker 1: five minutes, right, you said five, Okay, yeah, don't go
Speaker 1: over five, because I'm sure we could probably schedule, like
Speaker 1: I'm going to schedule three hours over worry time, come
Speaker 1: with me. Gutam um um. So the other one is
Speaker 1: when you're feeling really overwhelmed, so especially people who deal
Speaker 1: with like massive anxiety, where you find yourself, you know,
Speaker 1: the typical the heart palpitations, Oh god, I'm sweating. You know,
Speaker 1: my breath is really short and shallow. We do this
Speaker 1: thing called five senses. So when you catch yourself, do
Speaker 1: the thing. And Alex is nodding, So I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: probably heard this from your therapist. Run through your senses, right,
Speaker 1: So wherever you are, whenever you are look around, find
Speaker 1: something site that you can focus on, and I mean focus.
Speaker 1: So like for me, I'm looking at these like sheer
Speaker 1: white blinds, and I'm noticing the light actually coming through
Speaker 1: the blinds, and I'm noticing that there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of texture and there's like a little piece of fuzz
Speaker 1: on it. Like literally focus all of your site on
Speaker 1: this thing, right, and then do the same thing with
Speaker 1: all of your different senses, so your ears pick up something,
Speaker 1: really focusing on it, you know, smell, taste, all the things, touch,
Speaker 1: maybe I can feel my shirt on my skin, and
Speaker 1: really hone in and pay attention to it. It really
Speaker 1: helps you to just take yourself out of whatever it is,
Speaker 1: that feeling of hyper anxiety, hyper arousal, bring yourself back
Speaker 1: into your body in the present moment. And what it
Speaker 1: really does is it's you're actually resetting your nervous system.
Speaker 1: So you're telling your nervous system in that moment, there's
Speaker 1: no tiger, We're good, right, we're in this moment, We're
Speaker 1: in our body. Things are fine, and you can actually
Speaker 1: feel yourself regulate. So that's a really good any other one,
Speaker 1: I have one more good one. So if you're somebody
Speaker 1: who's new to mindfulness of meditation, right, I always say
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to look like you sitting in lotus
Speaker 1: position in you know, like a yogi for an hour
Speaker 1: a day. Ideally, if you can do it, great, but
Speaker 1: that's not what it has to look like. Um. A
Speaker 1: yoga teacher or a mindfulness teacher once said to me,
Speaker 1: next time you're in the shower, check and see if
Speaker 1: you're in the shower. So yeah, so what he what
Speaker 1: we we we learned. One of the things that we
Speaker 1: trained on is anything you're doing can be a practice
Speaker 1: of meditation or mindfulness if you're mindful while you're doing it. Right,
Speaker 1: So I always say, take something that you do every
Speaker 1: single day. So hopefully all of us brush our teeth
Speaker 1: every single morning, right, so take toothbrushing. Make that your
Speaker 1: meditation every day. So while you're brushing your teeth, right, So,
Speaker 1: actually picture yourself in your mind taking the toothpaste. You
Speaker 1: open it. You can smell the kind of peppermint. Right,
Speaker 1: you can see the ridges on the toothbrush. You actually
Speaker 1: squirt it out onto the toothbrush, You put it in
Speaker 1: your mouth. You're feeling the bristles on your gums. You're
Speaker 1: tasting the mintainus. You might feel the foaming. Right. Now,
Speaker 1: here's the thing your mind's gonna wander. Of course it is, right,
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, you're in like a meeting
Speaker 1: or your your podcast, the guess all the things. Oh ship,
Speaker 1: my brain's gone back to the minty flavor, back to
Speaker 1: the feeling of the thing on the gums. Right, and
Speaker 1: use that as the way to continually bring your mind
Speaker 1: over and over again back to the thing that you're doing.
Speaker 1: Just taken everyday thing that you know you're gonna do anyway,
Speaker 1: turn that into your mouth. I'm literally going to do
Speaker 1: that with brushing my teeth solely because I this is
Speaker 1: I want to be clear, I brush my teeth every morning,
Speaker 1: every night. But that being said, I hate it. I
Speaker 1: don't know why I hate brushing my teeth. I think
Speaker 1: it's like I'm just I wanted to be over as
Speaker 1: fast as I started, Like I just when I make
Speaker 1: sure my mouth is cleaned. You know what I mean
Speaker 1: is I don't like it. This is that's actually a
Speaker 1: great tip. I mean, obviously it's a great tip for
Speaker 1: being mindful, but it's also probably a great tip so
Speaker 1: that I stopped hating brushing my teeth so much. But
Speaker 1: those are I mean, those are just like what great
Speaker 1: tips and I want to I want to really hammer
Speaker 1: that in, like use these tips, and honestly, these tips
Speaker 1: aren't working. I also think that all three of us
Speaker 1: can full on be like a cheering section for you
Speaker 1: to like if you want to go and get help,
Speaker 1: or if you feel like you should get help, please
Speaker 1: go and get help, Like go and figure out what
Speaker 1: it is because it's cool. Like I'm like, it's in
Speaker 1: a weird way, like I like being like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: got anticipatory anxiety. It's kind of like there's another part
Speaker 1: of me, Like I said, hey, guys, I just got
Speaker 1: a new pair of shoes and I got anticipatory anxiety.
Speaker 1: It's cool, don't don't. I really want to This is
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a while since we've done an
Speaker 1: episode that's solely about mental health. Um, and that's why
Speaker 1: I think I've just been filled up with this thought
Speaker 1: of like, if you need help, go get help. Like
Speaker 1: it's cool to get help, Like that's the new thing.
Speaker 1: Like I know, you know, for the for the state
Speaker 1: of our country, for the state of humanity in general,
Speaker 1: we gotta keep normalizing it. So I really implore you
Speaker 1: to try these tips out. If these tips don't help
Speaker 1: what's going on, go and go and catch go and
Speaker 1: catch go and catch your local therapist, you know, and
Speaker 1: see you see if they can help out. But Vanessa
Speaker 1: Catherine think you both honestly so much for coming through.
Speaker 1: I love doing episodes about mental health, and Vanessa, hopefully
Speaker 1: you can come and be another guest for other mental
Speaker 1: health issues because you you really crushed it. Right now
Speaker 1: is a section that I like to call uh not
Speaker 1: so shameless promo, and it's basically where you just get
Speaker 1: to plug yourself, give yourself some give yourself some clout
Speaker 1: right here. So, Katherine, since you are you're very used
Speaker 1: to hearing what's not so shameless promo sounds like, so
Speaker 1: why don't you take it away? Yes? Well, you can
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram at cath Elizabeth. You can of
Speaker 1: course follow Mimsy on her Instagram. She is far more
Speaker 1: popular than I. But she's at mimsy Merbles like Marbles
Speaker 1: with an E or if you're a Parks and Wreck fan,
Speaker 1: she's actually named for dairy Merble's the NPR host on
Speaker 1: Parks and Wreck mimsy Merbles. Or you can check out
Speaker 1: we just started season two of my podcast Driving to Disneyland,
Speaker 1: so check that out. It's fantastic and we have a
Speaker 1: very fun Instagram full of colorful Disney items. I love
Speaker 1: it all right, Vanessa take it away? Um? Yeah, So
Speaker 1: you can follow me on Instagram as well. It's Vanessa S.
Speaker 1: Bennett H B E N N E T T. People
Speaker 1: will never seem to know how to spell that one. Um.
Speaker 1: And you can also hear my podcast as well. I
Speaker 1: do it with my dear soul sister Denay. It's called
Speaker 1: Cheaper than Therapy, um, and really it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: like the depth the side of the mental health world. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: we want to get in we want to destigmatize what
Speaker 1: goes on behind the closed doors of the therapy room,
Speaker 1: and so we bring on guests and have kind of
Speaker 1: like these conversations, right like, let's just be real about
Speaker 1: what it is that we're all going through. And so, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can check me out there. I love it. I
Speaker 1: fully expect to be a guest on cheaper than therapy. Now,
Speaker 1: don't worry. Don't worry, it's already our mind is already.
Speaker 1: You know, you can always find me at alex IONO
Speaker 1: everywhere A I O. N Oh. It's the beauty of
Speaker 1: having a weird last name. Uh. And I want to
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening today. If you have
Speaker 1: the time, please rate our podcast and subscribe. That is
Speaker 1: how we can grow, share it with the brand you
Speaker 1: already know. And I love you so much. Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to another episode of Let's Get Into It,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. We really want you
Speaker 1: to get the help you need, so if you need help,
Speaker 1: please seek independent advice from a competent healthcare or mental
Speaker 1: health professional. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
Speaker 1: are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating
Speaker 1: in the podcast and do not represent the opinions of
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia or its employees. This podcast should not be used
Speaker 1: as medical advice, mental health advice, counseling, or therapy. Listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast does not established doctor patient relationship with
Speaker 1: hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's Get Into It
Speaker 1: or I heart Media. No guarantee is given regarding the
Speaker 1: accuracy of any statements or opinions made on this podcast. Well,
Speaker 1: if that's a doozy