Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and
Speaker 2: Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. Well, it is the five
Speaker 2: year anniversary of George Floyd's killing that happens this Sunday.
Speaker 2: That's the anniversary. Hard to believe that since then we've
Speaker 2: seen a pendulum. I think it's fair to say swing
Speaker 2: back and forth when it comes to the way companies
Speaker 2: talk publicly about race, when it comes to the way
Speaker 2: that we hear administrations talk about it.
Speaker 3: The National Urban.
Speaker 2: League is out with a new report, and we're joined
Speaker 2: by Markmrioal, President and CEO of the National Urban League.
Speaker 2: It calls itself quote, the nation's largest historic civil rights
Speaker 2: and urban advocacy organization, devoted to empowering communities and changing
Speaker 2: lives since nineteen ten. Mark joins us here in the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio. Mark welcome.
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm glad to be here, and you know, I
Speaker 1: want to take a minute if you will talk about
Speaker 1: US steel please, because we took a position against this transaction,
Speaker 1: and I think people should be reminded that both Biden
Speaker 1: and Trump during the election cycle oppose what in it
Speaker 1: sent in effect, was an acquisition by Nipon Steel of
Speaker 1: US steel. Cleveland Cliffs wanted to buy US steel. Both
Speaker 1: Biden and Trump opposed it on the theory that it
Speaker 1: would lead to the loss of American jobs, the fear
Speaker 1: being that Nippon would close American plans transfer production to Japan.
Speaker 1: So now with this iteration, you asked the right question,
Speaker 1: is this a partnership or is that a public relations move?
Speaker 1: Is it still the original deal, which really was an acquisition,
Speaker 1: and what protections are going to be there? We took
Speaker 1: a position from a job's perspective, So.
Speaker 4: You were justerned about some of the black communities there right, economic.
Speaker 1: Places and steal and we're in a conversation where we're
Speaker 1: talking about manufacturing. So the real impact question is will
Speaker 1: this protect American steel jobs or will it potentially lead
Speaker 1: to the transfer production to Japan.
Speaker 2: Well, I will say the President said that it would
Speaker 2: create at least seventy thousand jobs and AD fourteen billion
Speaker 2: to the US economy. But as we did just here
Speaker 2: from Richard Bork, he has a hard time imagining that
Speaker 2: after investing fourteen billion dollars, then Nippon stee would at
Speaker 2: an additional fourteen billion dollars to the US economy.
Speaker 1: And the question is are there any guarantees? And I
Speaker 1: think we all need to watch for the details, understand
Speaker 1: the specifics because those jobs and those communities have been
Speaker 1: heavily dependent on those types of.
Speaker 2: Well, just to contextualize the seventy thousand, that's just a
Speaker 2: massive number of jobs, especially for the steel industry. US
Speaker 2: steel only has twenty two thousand employees right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I hope it's not a lot of hype,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that we owe it to
Speaker 1: look at the transaction and see what impact it or
Speaker 1: what guarantees are going to be there for American workers,
Speaker 1: And what are the guarantees that five years from now,
Speaker 1: there's not a decision made, a reversal and the jobs
Speaker 1: moved to Japan or they move abroad for some reason.
Speaker 1: So that's really what, if you will, handcuffs and guardrails
Speaker 1: are going to be placed on this transaction until we
Speaker 1: see what they file, until we see what they promise,
Speaker 1: it's hard to know.
Speaker 3: But I'm just it's.
Speaker 1: Interesting that the president opposed it as a candidate. Biden
Speaker 1: opposed it as a candidate, the union opposed it at
Speaker 1: a as a candidate, Union opposed it last year, and
Speaker 1: there was an American suitor for US Steel Cleveland Cliffs, Right.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot to unpack here, and I just
Speaker 1: you know, we work hard on the issue of jobs,
Speaker 1: and we're very focused on transactions to determine whether it's
Speaker 1: going to have a positive or negative impact on the
Speaker 1: communities we serve.
Speaker 3: Well, look, yeah, you George Floyd, wait, I want do.
Speaker 2: You want to in a minute?
Speaker 4: Ye?
Speaker 2: I want to stay on economic development and stand jobs
Speaker 2: because as somebody who's been involved in government for so
Speaker 2: long there of New Orleans serving in the Louisiana State Senate,
Speaker 2: you understand this stuff when it comes to economic development.
Speaker 3: Take a big picture.
Speaker 2: Approach to what you view as the economic policy of
Speaker 2: the Trump administration and its effects on American jobs. Because
Speaker 2: the President and the administration would say, hey, we are
Speaker 2: imposing tariffs to protect US jobs.
Speaker 1: I think a tariff approach without an industrial policy, which
Speaker 1: says what specific industries are you trying to grow it
Speaker 1: appears to be a scattershot approach designed to leverage some deals.
Speaker 3: Without any specificity. So we're talking about iPhones, automobiles, blue jeans.
Speaker 1: Toys, what specific so I can buy the selective use
Speaker 1: of tariffs, the selective use of trying to rebuild an
Speaker 1: American industry. But you need an industrial or economic development
Speaker 1: policy that matches the tariffs in order to give certainty
Speaker 1: to American business and consumers.
Speaker 4: So I am curious, you know, Mark, when the President
Speaker 4: putting pressure on a company like Apple to kind of
Speaker 4: increase its investment here. And we've talked a lot with
Speaker 4: our reporters who cover it and our team that covers it,
Speaker 4: that they say, you know, it's going to be a
Speaker 4: while before we can do it. That maybe there isn't
Speaker 4: the skill of the workers, the type of automation, so
Speaker 4: on and so forth. But is that the kind of
Speaker 4: thing that you think would create jobs that would actually
Speaker 4: benefit black communities, middle class communities, which we have just
Speaker 4: kind of carved out in a big way.
Speaker 1: Look, we the outsourcing of jobs that took place in
Speaker 1: the eighties and the nineties to really Reagan era free
Speaker 1: trade policies, which will continued in the Bush and the
Speaker 1: Clinton era.
Speaker 4: The Republicans Democrats are.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, communities, right, they did damage community. The benefit
Speaker 1: was cheaper goods on the consumer side, right, So there
Speaker 1: were some benefits, but it hurts. The issue today is
Speaker 1: what jobs are the jobs.
Speaker 3: Of the future.
Speaker 1: Is it rebuilding automobile component parts. I would say that
Speaker 1: what people have not paid attention to is the disinvestment
Speaker 1: through the NIH cuts in biomedical research and technology where
Speaker 1: we do have a bit of a competitive advantage. Where
Speaker 1: we do have, we ought to be pouring more investments
Speaker 1: into that.
Speaker 4: What's the impact of that from your view, Well, the.
Speaker 1: Impact of that is long term damaging because what happens
Speaker 1: is the scientists and the investments go abroad, and once
Speaker 1: they go abroad, just like manufacturing, you can't get them back.
Speaker 1: So our economic policy ought to be focused on where
Speaker 1: do we have a bit of some tailwinds and how
Speaker 1: can we grow it?
Speaker 3: But then on manufacturing.
Speaker 1: I agree with the notion that we are to try
Speaker 1: to rebuild.
Speaker 3: Manufacturing, but we need to be more specific about it.
Speaker 1: If someone said I want to bring jobs to Detroit, Newark, Gary,
Speaker 1: New Orleans, Atlanta, I'm all for it, but I need
Speaker 1: some specificity as to how this policy is going to
Speaker 1: generate that type of response.
Speaker 4: Are you getting time at the White House, We've.
Speaker 1: Not been in any direct discussions with anyone in the administration,
Speaker 1: but as always, if it's about the benefit for the community,
Speaker 1: I'm open to discussions with anyone.
Speaker 2: Is that different than other administrations? Do you typically have
Speaker 2: a direct line to the White House?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: In the Clinton, the Bush, the Obama administrations. Of Biden administrations,
Speaker 1: I think there was a much more candid, open working
Speaker 1: relationship with civil rights leaders, with African American leaders, and
Speaker 1: they were frank and candid, and they were not performative.
Speaker 3: You see I meetings. Many of these meetings took.
Speaker 1: Place without cameras, without press, without performance, without posturing. So
Speaker 1: I mean my view of meetings is I want to
Speaker 1: talk business. I don't want to play games.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is that the communities that you represent at
Speaker 2: the National Urban League in the last election move further
Speaker 2: to the right for the most part. And I don't
Speaker 2: want to paint every.
Speaker 1: Conduction, and many didn't vote, and there was a cynicism
Speaker 1: about whether government.
Speaker 3: Can make a difference. And why was that.
Speaker 1: I think that people's objective economic conditions, the difficulty of COVID,
Speaker 1: the depression of wages, inflation, a whole host of factors,
Speaker 1: and the idea that politicians come and go and make
Speaker 1: promises and never keep them.
Speaker 2: So how does the Democratic Party get these voters back.
Speaker 1: It's going to be up to a specific candidate. I
Speaker 1: think people will rally around the right person. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's so much about a party. I think
Speaker 1: Trump right, Trump remade quote unquote the Republican Party. I
Speaker 1: think the Democratic Party is the Democratic Coalition is poise
Speaker 1: for a makeover. It's poised for a group of people
Speaker 1: who are gonna come and talk about how they're going
Speaker 1: to change and disrupt.
Speaker 3: But bill a vision for the future.
Speaker 2: So who are some names that I would on your mind.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't offer any names now because right now the
Speaker 1: horses have not gotten out of the stable.
Speaker 3: So we got to see him on the practice track.
Speaker 4: Was Kamala Harris the wrong candidate at the wrong time.
Speaker 3: Oh, she was a good candidate.
Speaker 1: She was given a tough a tough lane to run
Speaker 1: in sixty to ninety days to get known amongst American people. Remember,
Speaker 1: she came within one point of defeating someone who was
Speaker 1: on their third run for president. So we got to
Speaker 1: remember there was no landslide, there was no mandate, but
Speaker 1: there was a victory for Donald Trump.
Speaker 4: So I would love to say, speaking of victories, that
Speaker 4: we've made a lot of progress in the last five years.
Speaker 4: Considering the tragic killing of George Floyd, and I think
Speaker 4: you know it was COVID.
Speaker 3: We were all home.
Speaker 4: We had a lot of conversation, really frank and real
Speaker 4: with CEOs and leaders about the importance and the racism
Speaker 4: that still is in this country and blacks being targeted
Speaker 4: around the country and just the injustices. And I feel
Speaker 4: like we've slip slided back.
Speaker 1: Tell me how you saw five steps forward and three
Speaker 1: steps back on two issues we cover in this report.
Speaker 3: I encourage people to go to in UK to report
Speaker 3: out yes on policing. Many communities, many police departments, many.
Speaker 1: Cities, supported by the Civil Rights Division of the Justice
Speaker 1: Department made strides. We didn't pass a comprehensive federal law
Speaker 1: that George Floyd Law did not pass, but one hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty police officers were in fact convicted. Dozens of
Speaker 1: police departments ended up in agreements to reform themselves. A
Speaker 1: number of states, like Maryland, passed statewide police reform measures.
Speaker 3: That was good. Now what's the obstacle?
Speaker 1: Now the current administration has walked in and said we're
Speaker 1: freezing all civil rights investigations, regardless of merit, regardless of
Speaker 1: the basis of those that puts headwinds into this effort
Speaker 1: to continue to do reform. On the other hand, there
Speaker 1: were these incredible commitments by many great American institutions, businesses, philanthropies, etc.
Speaker 1: And now some are walking them back. And they're three categories.
Speaker 1: Those that have just abandoned them, some who've held firm
Speaker 1: and those that are making cosmetic changes because they know
Speaker 1: they need to be committed, but they're under the pressure
Speaker 1: of the administration, which is using its regulatory power to
Speaker 1: force their hand.
Speaker 2: Do you think which one do you think happened more?
Speaker 2: Do you think these are just cosmetic changes and they're
Speaker 2: committed to these so called DEI policies, or do you
Speaker 2: think they are actually making fundamental changes in moving away
Speaker 2: from them and American.
Speaker 1: Business to them straight a sense of courage. And the
Speaker 1: reason why that courage is important is to recognize the
Speaker 1: marketplace for both employees and customers of the future, which
Speaker 1: is becoming far more diverse, black, brown Asian women. That's
Speaker 1: the workplace of the future, the customers of the future.
Speaker 3: I mean, you've seen.
Speaker 1: Target get really really hammered, right and they had an
Speaker 1: incredible record. They've walked it back now they'll tell you no,
Speaker 1: the changes we made were.
Speaker 3: Really around the edges.
Speaker 1: But people today, if you look at D E and
Speaker 1: I diversity, equity and inclusion, equal opportunity, and you poll it,
Speaker 1: the lowest polling numbers I've seen in any any publicly available.
Speaker 3: Poll is fifty percent.
Speaker 1: See, the American people are not on the side of
Speaker 1: the loud anti voices. American businesusiness knows deep in their soul,
Speaker 1: they know and they understand. But they're being I think pressured,
Speaker 1: they're being intimidated, and I think that's just the reality
Speaker 1: of today.
Speaker 4: We're squeeze for time twenty five seconds. Are you surprised
Speaker 4: by the fear of corporate leaders to speak out? And
Speaker 4: I apologize that it needs to be quick, I am.
Speaker 1: But their exceptions Jamie Diamond, Roger Goodell, two people with
Speaker 1: whom I've spoken, and two people who've made important statements,
Speaker 1: and I think others should do the same thing.
Speaker 2: Are you done with public service?
Speaker 3: Never done with public service? So are you?
Speaker 2: Is there a chance you would run for something else?
Speaker 3: There's always a chance. But I love my job. I
Speaker 3: love what I do.
Speaker 4: But there's always a chance, like what, Stay tuned all right, TVD,
Speaker 4: We'll come back and tell us you can break it. Mark,
Speaker 4: thank you so much. He's, of course, president and chief
Speaker 4: executive officer of the National Urban League, joining us in studio, Mark,
Speaker 4: thank you. Yeah,