1 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: Lutefuls. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to self up Radio, special operations, military news 3 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: and straight talk with the guys and the community. Hey, 4 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: what's going on? This is rad your host for Software 5 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: Radio bringing you another awesome episode today. My guest joining 6 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: me is author John Wynn Miller. Okay, and that's w 7 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: I N. I want to point that out, John Wynn Miller, 8 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: and he has written the book the novel the World 9 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: War Two epic that's out right now that you can 10 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: go and purchase on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, and 11 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: it's called The for the Peggy c. Welcome to the show, Joe. Thanks. 12 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here, happy to be anywhere actually, 13 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: but the year Well to our listeners. You're an author, 14 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: you're an investigative journalist. You have background in research and studying. 15 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: What is it that made you just want to write 16 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: and become an author? Is this your first endeavor? Is 17 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: my first novel? Um? I became a journalist more than 18 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: thirty years ago, let's say, because I wanted to write 19 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: the great American novel. Unfortunately, I didn't know how to 20 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: write and I had nothing to write about it. I've 21 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: had no exciting experiences. So I became a journalist, ended 22 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: up being an investigative reporter. It's a Pulitzer finalist. Then 23 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: I was a foreign correspondent based in Italy for almost 24 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: five years for the AP in the Wall Street Journal 25 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: covered politics, and when I've retired the first time, I 26 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: took a buyout because the newspaper industry was collapsing. I 27 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: was determined that I was going to learn how to 28 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: write screenplays. And the idea had actually occurred to me 29 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: years before this true story. It's it's strange. I had 30 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: been watching a movie, a really bad movie that I 31 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: can't remember the name, with my daughter Alison, and the 32 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: whole time I kept saying, I know I can write 33 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: a better script than this. I didn't know it. And 34 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: that night I had a dream, and when I woke up, 35 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: I knew the first scene, and I knew the last 36 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: scene of the screenplay, and I knew the name of 37 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: the ship, the Peggy c Where that came from? I 38 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: have no idea, And so years later, when I decided 39 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: to write a screenplay, I read books and watched videos 40 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: and went to conferences and finally wrote the script in 41 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: actually got some interest in Hollywood not great. Obviously, I 42 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: didn't sell it, and then when COVID hit, I decided, 43 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's about time that I write that novel. 44 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to start writing forty years ago or so. 45 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: I just started writing again. I took some online courses, 46 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: I read books. I had the advantage that by this 47 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: point I know how to write. I can write clearly. 48 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: Doing screenplays taught me how to create dramatic scenes and 49 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: how to build character arcs. So I felt kind of ready, 50 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: and I've surprised myself and finished it in about seven months, 51 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: and then got a publisher, Bancroft Press, which I sent 52 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: out fifty Yeah, it's huge. And then the publishing process 53 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: it takes eighteen months to get a book out. So 54 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: I sold this eighteen months ago and now it's appearing 55 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: on your book shelves anyway. So that's the reason why 56 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to write. I'd always wanted to do it, 57 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: and I've decided to look, I may as well just 58 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: do it. So now you need to go have another 59 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: dream tonight and decide on your next path tomorrow morning. 60 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: I believe it or not, I enjoyed writing the book 61 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: so much that and I love the characters so much 62 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: that immediately turned around and started writing a sequel. My 63 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: publisher said, you need to keep writing, So I did, 64 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: and I finished the sequel and a few months ago, 65 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: and now I'm into the third volume, which may or 66 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: may not be the last volume in this series, but 67 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: using a lot of the same characters, all during World 68 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: War two, different phases. So it's been fun. Yeah, I 69 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: love that. That's a great backdrop World War Two, you know, 70 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: and you boats and studying, you know, the movements that 71 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: you had researched about U boats, Right, You've were studying 72 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: logs and just reading everything and just soaking it all up. Right, 73 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: That's the disadvantage I had. They always say, right, what 74 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: you know? Well, I know nothing about U boats. I've 75 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: never been on one. I know nothing about tramp steamers, 76 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: never been online. I'm not Jewish, although I have Ashkenazi 77 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: blood and Jewish relatives. So I had to do a 78 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: ton of research because I wanted what I wrote to 79 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: be historically accurate and to get the technology accurately. So 80 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: when you finish my book, you will pretty much know 81 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: what it's like to live on a U boat or 82 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 1: a tramp steamer. You'll know how to drive a U boat, 83 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: which took me forever to figure out. And there are 84 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: some really cool websites that are devoted to data on 85 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: U boats. There's one where I was able to as 86 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned, I was able to read the logs of 87 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: every U boat captain during the war, and I used 88 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: that because I wanted to know what the phases of 89 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: the moon were each stage of my chase. This the 90 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: book is. It's a World War two thriller, but it's 91 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: about an American smuggler kind of a dark past who 92 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: rescues the Jewish family from Amsterdam and put some sneaks 93 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: them out on his rusty cargo ship, which really upsets 94 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: his crew of misfits because they didn't know he was 95 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: going to do something so dangerous and ends up sparking 96 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: a chase, almost three thousand mile chase by a U 97 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: boat captain bent on revenge. So I had to research 98 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: each piece of that in significant detail. So I did 99 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: want to just say, you know, they had a submachine gun, 100 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: what kind of sub machine gun? What's an MP forty? 101 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: How many exactly? I was gonna say, you didn't even 102 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: have like where they using, you know, the luger, what was, Well, 103 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: the that's one thing I had to be careful about 104 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: because if I were just to go on what the 105 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: movies show or what you think, you would think they 106 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: all had lugers. Well, the Navy actually used mausers. They 107 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: used the M nineteen thirty four pistol, so which is 108 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: used by Han Solo in Star Wars. That's right, it is. 109 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: I just want to point that out. Okay, So the 110 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: mauser you're talking about for my listener, if you are like, 111 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: what does that gun look like? Right, if you're listening, 112 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: if you can think of Star Wars and Han Solo 113 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: has it and shoots a laser, but they just flared 114 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: out the end with a new muzzle brake, right and 115 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: put a scope on it. That's right. Well, I mean 116 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: the guns play a significant role because different people had 117 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: different kinds of guns. So, for instance, the captain of 118 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: my ship, Jake Rogers, he has an old cult M 119 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, which um was sort of a blue steel, 120 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: walnut checkered handle World War One pistol that he kept 121 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: locked up in his cabin in case he needed it 122 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: to deal with his crew, which he appreciate did but 123 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: that it was that kind of detail that I wanted 124 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: people like you to bread and say, oh right, I 125 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: know what that is. That's the right weapon, or that's 126 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: the type of uniform he would wear. That's what the 127 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: insignias were. On submarines, for instance, U boats generally did 128 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: not have like you to on them because they didn't 129 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: want the allies to be able to track them. So 130 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: most of them had emblems on them like a leaping 131 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: frog or jumping dolphin or a snorting goal. And so 132 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: I had to be careful with how I described U 133 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: boats that I didn't put something on them that typically 134 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: wasn't there. But so again that was a lot of fun. 135 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: And some of these websites, there was one called you 136 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: boat Yeah, Yeah, you boat dot Net that I can 137 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: look at the history of every single U boat, every 138 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: captain that was on it, ships that they sank, when, 139 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: and where. A lot of articles about the technology aboard 140 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: you boats. Not so much on tramp steamers. It was 141 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: a little harder for me to research them because they 142 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: weren't quite as romantic. I guess as uh you know 143 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: you you boat captains who many of them wrote memoirs. 144 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: Not many merchant ship captains were memoirs, so they're just 145 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: the captain. Yeah, yeah, hey, I've already yeah started three 146 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: seven six, you know, it's like get going, Yeah, And 147 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: so I get into a lot of how tough it 148 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: was to sail. My story starts in Amsterdam and they 149 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: end up going through the English Channel, the Straight of Gibraltar, 150 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: through the Mediterranean and almost to Palestine to put it 151 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: that way, which is why it's a three thousand mile chase, 152 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: which you kind of allude to. And and then you 153 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: have all these days that go along with three thousand miles, right, 154 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: all these different scenarios that have to take place over 155 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: three thousand miles of traversing the ocean with different types 156 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: of you know, currents, and again moon cycles, like you know, 157 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: is the moon always shining on the water or is 158 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: it completely pitch black out? You know, it's like right, well, 159 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: and I had to make sure and so you're when 160 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: I started, I can't remember if it was a full 161 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: moon or not the first night, And so I had 162 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: to go through the faces of the moon as the 163 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: trip went along, you know, and go to you know, 164 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: half moon, gibious, waning moon, and and but I had 165 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: to make sure that those were accurate as I went along, 166 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: and I Also I had to understand the ocean currents. 167 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: For instance, again a sub money the U boat, you know, 168 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: they just don't sink and drive along. It's they've got 169 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: two guys they're manning either electronic buttons or wheels, the 170 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: helmsman trying to or the planesman who are trying to 171 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,239 Speaker 1: keep the boat level because if they're the water temperature 172 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: will impact them. The salinity of the water impacts them, 173 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: so they're constantly trying to keep the boat trim in. 174 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: The whole buoyancy is like, uh, they're trying to stay 175 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: afloat instead of sinking the heavy machine to the bottom 176 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: of the ocean. They run what kind of engine was it? 177 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: Was it a diesel was actually diesel engines. They had 178 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: an A E G. Two diesel engines, and then when 179 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: they were submerged, the diesels had to have oxygen, and 180 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: they were submerged they ran electric motors and which was cool, 181 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: but they didn't last that long. You know. The charges. 182 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: The whole bottom of the U boat was lined with 183 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: batteries which were charged by the diesel engine when they 184 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: were on the surface, and then when they went under 185 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: they were they lost their charge after maybe a day 186 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: or so so it also impacted the speed of the 187 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: U boat. Traditionally. You know, again if you look in 188 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: the movies, you'll see the U boat captain at the 189 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: periscope doing this and then they're shooting. But in most 190 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: cases they the U boat captains preferred to be on 191 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: the surface and attacking, either with their torpedoes or with 192 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: they at an eight point eight centimeter gun I would 193 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: call it a cannon, but on the deck that they 194 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: would use to attack. And on the surface they could 195 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: do seventeen knots, and underneath and beneath they could barely 196 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: do seven knots. So a typical envoy was moving it 197 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: maybe ten knots, and so they couldn't keep up with 198 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: the convoys if they were underwater, um, and they would 199 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: run out of oxygen pretty quickly, or they would run 200 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: out of electricity to power them so they have their 201 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: battery supply. Yeah, it was so they'd have to be 202 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: forced to resurface to run their diesel engines so that 203 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: they could breathe so they could get going again. And honestly, 204 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: it seems like what you're explaining is that the captain, 205 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: if it was me, it would be like, all right, 206 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: let's just stay, you know, military crest in the water, 207 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, just right up above where you know, if 208 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: we have to get out, we can get out, but 209 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: we can also engage with our weaponry against other ships 210 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: or anything on the shore. They're low slung except for 211 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: the conning tower, which would stick up. And I described 212 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: the conning towers looking like from the front, it looks 213 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: like a rook and chest, and from the side it 214 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: actually looks like a boot because there's a back, not 215 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: a patio, but platform, uh that deck area on the back. 216 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: So they would prefer to be up above the water 217 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: level because they could see better. The periscopes are actually 218 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: two periscopes and something else I learned on U boats 219 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: and on most submarines and the you the periscope you 220 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: see most often on TV or in movies down in 221 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: the control room again with captain doing this or the 222 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: first officer, first watch officer, that is the observation periscope. 223 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: It's used mainly to look for planes and scout out 224 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: for ships. It's it can be used for firing, but 225 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: typically the shooting or the firing it takes place in 226 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: the conning tower where the captain, the number one who's 227 00:14:54,360 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: the boatswain and then the helmsman are in there on 228 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: a periscope that does not go up and down again 229 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: like you've seen the movie. It goes around, and the 230 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: captain is sitting like on a bicycle seat holding the handles, 231 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: and he's got pedals that he'll push the turn left 232 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: or right. He can't go up or down. It's that's 233 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: where it is. It is where it's already. It's already 234 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: static at that point, so it's going to stay there. 235 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: So even when they die, it's still static like that. 236 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: They can raise the end, but the handles don't go 237 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: up and down inside of it. Yeah, you know that's 238 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: I guess that's so you have to maneuver around that 239 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: on the ship, right, So I mean, like if you're 240 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: the captain or you're driving it in the front and 241 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: you've got to get back to wherever, you gotta go 242 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: around this hanging down piece in a cramped area and 243 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: try to maneuver around everything. And yeah, it's got to 244 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: be men with like hardened souls to go inside of 245 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: a submarine and become a submary in any military Okay, whatever, 246 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: the fact is that these guys are putting themselves in 247 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: these Uh, it could be water coffins exactly. Uh, you know, 248 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: the metal coffins, or and for U voters, the survival 249 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: rate was the lowest of all military branches. It's like 250 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: two thirds to three quarters of everybody who served in 251 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: on U boats died, So it was really hard service. 252 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: But to compensate for that, the commander of all U 253 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: boats was Vice Admiral Carl Donnants, who made sure that 254 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: all U boat officers and men were paid almost twice 255 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: what other branches were paid. And when they returned from 256 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: a mission, they would usually get several weeks off and 257 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: there was a special train that would take them back 258 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: to Berlin or to some of the resorts that were 259 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: reserved just for U boat personnel as sort of a 260 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: reward for the horrible conditions that they've lived in in 261 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: the danger that they had. So even on board the 262 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: ship or boat, uh, they had the best food available. 263 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: They ate very well, although fresh food only lasted for 264 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: about two weeks, so they had a lot of canned food, 265 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: a lot of meats that dried meats, but they still 266 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: they ate much better than the average soldier. They made 267 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: more money, they were more likely to die the soldiers, 268 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: so uh, and I can't. It's just unbelievably claustrophobic to 269 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: think about. You know, you're stuck in this this tube 270 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: where there's barely enough room to stand up and it's 271 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: jam packed. At the beginning of a mission, they put food, 272 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: cans of food or vegetables or anywhere they can. In fact, 273 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: there's two heads on a submarine, two bathrooms. At the 274 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: beginning of the mission. One of the heads is completely 275 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: full of cans, so you can't use it. So you've 276 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: got forty five men who are going to have to 277 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: use one toilet. And if it's below the surface too 278 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,719 Speaker 1: deep where the water pressure won't allow you to flush 279 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: the toilet, they have to use buckets. And the buckets 280 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: are traditionally work kept around in the diesel engine room. Now, 281 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: and you know, you've got a corridor through the middle 282 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: that maybe three ft wide, so it's um very difficult, 283 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: and they have hanging above them. They'll have um hams 284 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: and sausages and dark bread. Uh, you know, it looks 285 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: like a cave. And they'll also have chains in the 286 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: forward torpedo room, which is where most of the enlisted 287 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: men would sleep. Um and they were hot bunked and 288 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: you know, they got they had to share bunks, so 289 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: but they would have these changes that were used for 290 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: moving torpedoes and things like that that made it look 291 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: like stalagontites and stalagmite. So you really felt like you 292 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: were in a cave. So oh yeah, just like you 293 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: barely have. You were just part of the whole machine. 294 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: You're just a cog and its wheel. You're just like 295 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, as you're the human element to keeping it going. 296 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: And that's simple e put you know, yeah, that's crazy, 297 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: and you've all got what would what would they? You 298 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: know that I would rather stay on the surface. Well, 299 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: even that could be dangerous because when they did come 300 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: up on the surface, traditionally typically the captain, the first 301 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: watch officer, and four other um watchman would come up 302 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: and the watchman would have to station them else at 303 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: noon twelve I mean twelve, three, six and nine with 304 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: the binoculars and not move. You know, they couldn't if 305 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: something blew up behind them, if they turned around and look, 306 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: they were subject to court martial. So they set up there. 307 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: Now it sounds like fun, Okay, I'm in the clear air, 308 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: but when you have thirty and forty ft waves coming 309 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: at you, the ice cold North Atlantic. You know, you've 310 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: got clothes on that are never dry um and they're 311 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: supposed to be waterproof, their leather or oil skin. And 312 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: then I you know, if you get hammered by waves like, 313 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: they don't stay dry very long. And so you're there, 314 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: you're fighting that and the cold. You're up there for 315 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: two to four hours. And there was one case that 316 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: I mentioned in the novel where it was clear weather, 317 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: but there were really rough seas and maybe you know 318 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: thirty forty ft waves, big waves, and the watch crew 319 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: went up onto the conning tower and they was so 320 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: clear they were afraid to put on their safety straps 321 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: and and normally they would have this leather strap that 322 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: they would strap to the conning tower, but they didn't 323 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: do it. So this conversion of unfortunate circumstances happened where 324 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: the the U boat was heading uh in a following sea, 325 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: meaning that the sea was they were going in the 326 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: direction the sea that came to a huge wave and 327 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: they were going up the wave, and before they got cressed, 328 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: another forty ft wave came over behind them took all 329 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: four of the watch crew and they were never seen again. 330 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: So even if and the reason they didn't put there, 331 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: so the surface, yeah, the and they didn't so the 332 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: extra pay though, right yeah, Well, and there was a 333 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: realists free decor among you voters. I mean, when you're 334 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: in that much danger all the time, you really think 335 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: you're something special. Um. And I kind of make a 336 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: little fun of that where my hero, Captain Rodgers is 337 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: a real cynic. He Uh. Rumor has it that he 338 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: fled America as a young man because he killed somebody. 339 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: And he's tough, he's gruff, he's um. You're never sure 340 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: when his temper is going to explode. But so it's 341 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: uh and I've completely lost where I was going with 342 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: that story. But uh oh no, well that's okay because 343 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: the wave came up and then it crashed down on 344 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: him and then I was like, that's extra pay, you know. Yeah. 345 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: And then the captain that's going to mention is that 346 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: the reason they didn't have their safety belts on, um 347 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: is that they were afraid that the planes because it 348 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: was so clear that they could be attacked by British 349 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: Walruses or Sutherland's and uh wouldn't be able to get 350 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: back into the ship one time. So it's just a 351 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: stupid mistake. But there and now in the now and 352 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: now in the book, you rescue a Jewish family from Amsterdam, 353 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: or the characters are involved and rescue during the World 354 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: War two. Uh you know war. Now where did that? 355 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Where did that? You know? I know where it came 356 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: from because that happened in the war all the time. 357 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: But these characters that you picked out, one of them's 358 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: name is Miriam right. Um, yeah, let's tell us a 359 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: little bit about the adventure. So, uh, Captain Rodgers is 360 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: a smuggler basically, and he goes from port to port 361 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: um transporting things that are legal and maybe less than legal. 362 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: And this takes place right before America enters the war. 363 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,479 Speaker 1: And he's on an American flagship, so they're neutral so 364 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,959 Speaker 1: they can go to a lot of the ports in 365 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: theory and not get sunk. So when Rogers in the 366 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: Peggy c doc in Amsterdam because he's bringing um something 367 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: for a Nazi official that they want to transport. It Uh, 368 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: not a weapon, just some some prize. Um anyway, he Uh. 369 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: The way tramp steamers work, as the Captain gets there, 370 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: normally there there's an agent that helps them find more 371 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: stores or things to ship. Well, his agent is gone, 372 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: so he has to go looking for cargo, and he 373 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: goes to Um, one of the men he has worked 374 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: with before, and he gives him an said, I will 375 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: pay you more than you can earn in five lifetimes 376 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: to transport this pack, this boxed cargo, and then once 377 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: they get it on the ship, he does it for money. 378 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: And then they discover that there h a family of 379 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: Jews hidden in the box and including Miriam, who's the 380 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: oldest daughter of the family, and they the crew gets 381 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: really upset because you know, they point out, you know, 382 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: if you smuggle booze or cigarettes, the Germans don't care, 383 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: they'll just take their taste, but if you're smuggling Jews, 384 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: they will kill you. And unfortunately, they get stopped by 385 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: a U boat for inspection, which was not unusual, and 386 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: they had hidden the Jews away in a secret compartment 387 00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: which the German boarding party quickly finds in. So Rodgers 388 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: has to use his brains and he tricks the U 389 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: boat in two go on a bad place so they 390 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: can't chase him, and so that's where the chase begins. 391 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: So then he's got this family of Jews that he 392 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: gradually becomes really enchanted with because of the warm family relationships, 393 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: something he's never had, came from a broken family. Um, 394 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the rituals are so comforting, uh 395 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: in the joy and the even in terrible situations. And Miriam, 396 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: like him, is a reads voraciously and that's what makes 397 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: this Captain Rogers a little unusual, is that he reads voraciously. 398 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: And they have turned out that they've read a lot 399 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: of the same books, like Ivanhoe or other adventure books, 400 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: and that plays a key role later on because of 401 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: that shared dolledge. Anyway, they graduate, fall in love and 402 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: and she go get the book, can't too much. Yeah, 403 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: I don't want you to tell everything about it. I 404 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: just know that, uh, you know, there's a fondness for Miriam. 405 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: And you know, even like what you just mentioned, it's 406 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: World War two. They're being persecuted for just being alive 407 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: on the planet Earth, for who they are, no rhyme 408 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: of reason to it, and uh, he still sees family 409 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: love between them and dire needs of being bordered by 410 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: the U boats. Like you know, they're still trying to 411 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: keep a positive outlook on life. But you know, you're 412 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: being chased and hunted just because of and he he liked. 413 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: Most Americans had no idea how bad it was for 414 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: the Jews in Amsterdam or anywhere in Europe, and what 415 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: he saw when he was there appaulleding. But then um, 416 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: she one night she starts talking to him about what 417 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: it was like to live in Amsterdam under the Nazis. 418 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: Because you know, it's almost like the story of the 419 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: the apocryphal story probably of the boiling frog. Now you 420 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: put a frog and water and slowly turned the heat 421 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: up and he won't jump out until he's boiled. Well, 422 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: that's what the Nazis did. It was so insidious. Um. 423 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: At first they didn't do anything other than while you 424 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: have to everybody has to register, and you have to 425 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: tell us your religion, okay, and then you have to 426 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: give us your address. Then uh, now you're gonna have 427 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: to carry a special passport with JA for jew on it. Oh, 428 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: by the way, now you can't go to any public parks, 429 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: and you're fired from any job you had in government. 430 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: So it gradually gets worse and worse, and then just 431 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: even more insidious as they forced the Jews to appoint 432 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: a Jewish council that is going to enforce all of 433 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: their rules. Now, those poor guys who are on that council, 434 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: rabbis and you know, prominent citizens. They believe that if 435 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: we can just control the protests and make sure that 436 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: no one is breaking the law, that it can't get 437 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: any worse. Well, of course, it gets worse, and it 438 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: gets worse in worderse and Miriam's monterrey is why don't 439 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: we ever fight back, and that the answer was because 440 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: it will only get worse. And um there there there's 441 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: a scene where there's this great irony of the Netherlands, 442 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: very liberal country, but Jews were protected and then abandoned. 443 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: So in early in the war nineteen in February, the 444 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: entire country went on strike against the Nazis for their 445 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: treat of Jews um for three days, the whole country 446 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: was most of the country was shot shut down until 447 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: the Germans suppressed the protests with guns and grenades and 448 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: they ended up arresting a bunch of people and send 449 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: them off to concentration camp. So there were no more 450 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: major protests. But that so that was one side of 451 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: the Dutch. You know, they're the only country that had 452 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: a nationwide protests about the Nazis treatment of Jews Um. 453 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: And then they also became the country that had the 454 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: highest percentage of Jews who were killed, and so it's 455 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: just irony, and Miriam goes into a lot of that, 456 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: so you get to see just no, it's just how 457 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: terrible it is. And it also adds at tension to 458 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: the escape because you know what is going to happen 459 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: to them, uh. And they can't just drop off in England, 460 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: for instance, because they were accepted. America won't accept them, 461 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: Cuba won't accept them. Uh, France, you know, all the 462 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: countries that surround Holland were uh Nazi occupied or Nazi sympathizers. 463 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: The only country in Europe that actually did something about 464 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: it was Denmark. Again, one of the things that was 465 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: fun about this book was every time started in research, 466 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: I stumbled on something said what I had no idea 467 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: that happened. You know, I've never heard of this. So 468 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: I was mentioning Denmark. When the Germans took over, they 469 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: didn't do anything with the Jews at first. Then they 470 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: passed an ordinance saying that we're gonna round them up. 471 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: The Danish kid every Jew there were about eight thousand 472 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: in Denmark, snuck them across the water into neutral Sweden. 473 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: So fewer than only a few hundred Jews ever were 474 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: rounded up by the Germans in Denmark. Uh, it's remarkable. 475 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: I mean it was a little easier because the border, 476 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's a small waterway between Denmark and sweet 477 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: But so there was a lot of fascinating little tidbits 478 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: of history that I kept running into that we're I 479 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: think we'll make the novel fun for people who really 480 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: have read a lot about history of World War two. 481 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: I think you'll be surprised at some of the things. 482 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: Hopefully you'll be pleased with the accuracy of the technology 483 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: and the history. Um. So it's uh, it's been a 484 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: real labor of love in dread. You're dealing with some 485 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: of that harm. Well, well, there's uh you have a 486 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: a website, right is it? Uh? Is your website John 487 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: Wynn Miller? Is that? How do you? What is the 488 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: j O H N W I N N M I 489 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: L L E R John Wynn Miller. It's on my book. 490 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: Uh that you can that and you can read more 491 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: about me. You can read about the book. You can 492 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: download the first chapter if you want. You can also 493 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: order it because it's available everywhere you get your books 494 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: on Amazon, Audible, Barnes and Noble, Walmart and many local books. 495 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: You haven't narrated, it's to do your own narration or 496 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: have you heard my accent? Well, I'm actually just loving it. 497 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: I have no problem, you know, Actually I was. I 498 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: did a lot of drama in high school and had 499 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: to learn, and I did broadcasting because for a p 500 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: when you file the story, you would also have to 501 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: do a one minute broadcast you recorded, and so I 502 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: had to go through training to learn the difference between 503 00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: saying five and five five and five. Uh. Anyway, So yeah, 504 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: so I did not narrate the book. Uh. We ended 505 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: up the publisher hired an actor who ironically had graduated 506 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: from the same college I did, the University of Kentucky 507 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 1: many years ago. Um. He does a wonderful job because yes, 508 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: I have so many foreign words and titles in there 509 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: that he had to learn how to pronounce correctly, and 510 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: it was just the work he put into it. So 511 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: it's fun to listen to if I do say something myself. 512 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: So you can read the book. You can download your 513 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: book on Audioble and and listen to it if you're 514 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, on the road and or like to listen 515 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: and Uh, you know, I think that that would be 516 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: a good Christmas gift. Everybody loves uh you know it. 517 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: And it's not just a war story that it's really uh, 518 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of lovely loved story that's wrapped into an 519 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: action adventure. I mean there's lots of act and but 520 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: it's ultimately it's about what they learned about each other. 521 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: How Rogers the captain. His character arc, as they would 522 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: say in movies, is that he goes from the cynic 523 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 1: who thinks um soldiers are suckers and uh, that people 524 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: who talk about honor and duty are just their fools, 525 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: and that he talks about Napoleon what Napoleon said, that 526 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: it's amazing what people will do for little pieces of 527 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: colored ribbons, and so he's always making fun of them 528 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: for wanting to get those colored ribbons. Um. And by 529 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: the end he he sees that there are things worth 530 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: fighting for. Um. I liken it to uh if I 531 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: when I was pitching it as a movie, I would 532 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: say it's a Casablanca meets dost Boot because of the 533 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: love story U Senate called Rick by the end does 534 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: the noble thing, and so it's it's a book for 535 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: hope for most people would like it. It's an adventure story, 536 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: it's a love story, it's a war story, but it's 537 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,720 Speaker 1: really about people and love which right, and just seeing 538 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: each other for who they are and not having any 539 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: You don't think we're just people bleeding the same red blood. 540 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: I said on a lot of my episodes, you know, 541 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: with a lot of my guests, and we all seem 542 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: to agree that we're all just humans living on this 543 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: earth together, and uh, you know we should just keep 544 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: it that way. Yea. Even even I was careful, Um, 545 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: I didn't want to do caricature. So even the Nazi, 546 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: the U boat captain who kind of goes crazy, I 547 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: mean Victor Brower, who's based on a number of real 548 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: U boat captains, both good ones and bad ones, and 549 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: who did smart things and evil things. But he tried 550 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: not to make him a aricature. He really believes in 551 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,479 Speaker 1: what he's doing. He's doing his duty. He thinks he's 552 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: doing God's will, um, and that you know, he's got 553 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: to be tough to do tough things. Um. He thinks 554 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: the Americans and the Allies are hypocrites because they you know, 555 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: they complain about U boats making uh sneak attacks and 556 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: he said, well, they do the same thing, which in 557 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: fact they did. Um so, and you learn a lot 558 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: about his background, about his family. He's a self made 559 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: man who had to work his way through. He was 560 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: a merchant marine and worked his way through law school. Uh, 561 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: and then became a U boat captain through some kind 562 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: of slammy things. But um, but he's he's a real person. 563 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 1: He's not just evil, although he ends up being pretty evil. 564 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy that we're talking about this. I 565 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: have to go back to this time when I was 566 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: younger and I was with my father and we were 567 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin and he's like, you know, let's go take 568 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: a look at something while we're visiting my dad. And 569 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: I was like, all right. We left Grandpa's house and 570 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: he took me over to a submarine and there was 571 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: a submarine that's docked in manat Wauk, Wisconsin. And I 572 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: got to go on. Yeah, and it's an old diesel 573 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: style and I don't think it's a U, but I 574 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: think it's US. But it's there and it's yeah, I'm 575 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: pretty sure it's a US boat. And uh, I mean 576 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: that's my submarine. I've been on it, you know, I 577 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: went down into it. And so when you're talking about 578 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: these three foot you know ways and how cramped these 579 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: places are, go on a go on a submarine, Go 580 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: check one out that's possibly like a museum that you 581 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: can go walk on and you'll see exactly that. There clusterhone, 582 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: there's a real live You boat and that was captured 583 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: a whole. I think it's You five O five in 584 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: the museum there, which again because of COVID, I couldn't 585 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: go up and go through it. So I watched videos 586 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: of it, and uh, we've got a lot of description. 587 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 1: But the thing you don't get necessarily when you walk 588 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: through a museum quality ship is you don't get the 589 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: the smell, you know, the bodies that have been in 590 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: there for weeks without really they don't wash because they 591 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: can't waste the water. They generally don't shave. You've got 592 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: diesel fuel fumes, you've got cooking fumes. You've got sometimes 593 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: the batteries get damaged, and so you've got chlorine gas, 594 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: which is can be is poisonous and enough level and 595 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: so and you've got moldy clothes that never dry um 596 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: and you're sharing beds. Uh, you're you're sleeping on the 597 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: floor and uh, it just and you can't get to 598 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: the bathroom. You've got to use a bucket, so that 599 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: adds to the smell. So and it's just talking about quarantine, 600 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: and it's it can be free using cold and they're 601 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: they have heaters, but when they submerge and they're being chased, 602 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: they turned the heaters off so they don't make any noise. 603 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: So it you know, there's condensation dripping all over the place. 604 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: It's freezing cold. Um, no matter how many jackets they 605 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: put on, they're just shivering underneath the water. And one 606 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: of the ironies again, something I learned is that uh, 607 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: Admiral Donat's that the head of you boats he described that. 608 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: He said, you know, you boats really aren't underwater vessels. 609 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: They're diving vessels. They're uh they if they were just underwater, 610 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 1: they would be like a squid or something that rates 611 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: and weights in the rocks for the prey to crawl 612 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 1: into your mouth. And you can't do that. So they 613 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: spend most of their time or as much time as possible, 614 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: on the surface, and they dive when they have to 615 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: um because they've become even more vulnerable. Then now that 616 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: the Allies at the beginning did not have a sonar 617 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: or something to attract him, but they did develop it's 618 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: called a stick And if you ask me what stands for, 619 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you. I know, but I can't remember UH. 620 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: And it was a primitive type of sonar, so they 621 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: could generally locate uh U boats UM. And it became 622 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: more sophisticated as the war went on. So when you 623 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: submerge and you're being chased by a bunch of Allied destroyers, 624 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: you're trying to be deathly silent. They turn everything off. 625 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: They turned the heaters off. They have a gyro compass 626 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: that UH spins around that They turned that off because 627 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: they don't want any boys UH the sound, no sound. 628 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 1: They'll put mattresses on the floor and socks on their uh, 629 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: take their boots off off UM only whisper and UH. 630 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: In most cases, they just have to stay in their 631 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: beds or at their battle stations and wait. And as 632 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: they wait, they can hear the sort of the you know, 633 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: the egg beater motors going around them, getting closer and closer, 634 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: and then they can hear that pop and then a 635 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: whosh and then bubbles and then at and then that's 636 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: when the bombs they they detonate, and they may be 637 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: close to you that they may not blow you up 638 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,760 Speaker 1: right away, but they'll knock out your lights. Uh, they'll 639 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: be stuck in the dark with water shooting everywhere. Again, 640 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: the terror of all that, I just can't imagine. Um. 641 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 1: But when you said as when when you said that, 642 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: I said, the Aztec it's a s d I C 643 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: right real quickly and says later. Known as sonar, was 644 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: a secret device for locating submerged submarines by using sound waves. 645 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: It was named after the Anti Submarine Detection Investigation Committee, 646 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: So that's where it gets its name, those four words. 647 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: And it consisted of electronic sound transmitter and receiver and 648 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: was housed in a metal dome beneath the ship's hull. 649 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,800 Speaker 1: So that's you know, they're trying to get onto capturing 650 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: these boats and uh sonar, you know one peing down bubble. Yes, 651 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: And so they that's why most U boats didn't survive. 652 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: And another sort of vibrantic thing is that fairly early 653 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: in the war, UM, because of Ultra they they broke 654 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: the code for submarines and they that was helpful, But 655 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: what really helped him a strength that the the Enigma 656 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: was the name of the machine that the boat's wing 657 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 1: to hear it, and you know, it's a machine with 658 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: three or four wheels that generate random letters. And you 659 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: have a document that on water soluble pink paper that 660 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: you can look up. I here's today's date, here's what 661 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: we start each UH one of these four or three 662 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: or four UH rotaries that creates seventeen thousand possible combinations. 663 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 1: So they considered it unbreakable. UM. What they didn't know 664 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: was that fairly early in the war the Americans captured UM. 665 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: Not the Americans, the Brits captured the submarine intact and 666 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: got the Enigma machine, got a lot of the code books, 667 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: and it was top secret. No one knew until long 668 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: after the war was is over. But even without that, 669 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,879 Speaker 1: the strength of the U boats is that they were 670 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: coordinated from Donuts, basically from the headquarters in Laurent, France 671 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: on the Bay of bis Day. And but the way 672 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: they were controlled is that Donuts insisted that the U 673 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: boat captains call in several times a day, and he 674 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: would send them radio messages several times a day. Because 675 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,720 Speaker 1: the way they operated is they would have a line 676 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,839 Speaker 1: of U boats several hundred miles apart, and once one 677 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: U boat spotted a convoy, then headquarters would coordinate bringing 678 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: the wolf pack together to attack that very unfortunately. What 679 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: it also does is the Allies had figured out that 680 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: out and had created radio monitoring systems where they could 681 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,799 Speaker 1: triangulate where the U boats were, so they were able 682 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: to move the convoys around the way, and so for 683 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: a part of the war that the Germans were just befuddled. 684 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,439 Speaker 1: We can't find anything, we know they're coming through. Um. 685 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: So the strength was actually a weakness for them, which 686 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: was true on a lot of things, and actually kind 687 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: of used that principle in the novel. How do you 688 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 1: turn an enemy's strength into a weakness. It's just like 689 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: you jiu jitsu um and my like their own ego. 690 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:37,240 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. And so my my captain, my hero, captain Rogers, 691 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: big burly guy, but he uses his brains more than 692 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:45,479 Speaker 1: his his braun um. The fact that he's read so much, 693 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: it's and he's a deep thinker about things helps him 694 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:59,719 Speaker 1: pull off some hopefully believable escapes. No, that's the I'm 695 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: looking forward to finishing it and the whole nine yards, 696 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 1: So don't even don't even stress that I'm excited. I'm 697 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: excited for the success of your beak. I really want 698 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: to see you know, uh people talking about it and 699 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: just enjoying it and uh having it on their shelf 700 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: like you have these books on yourself behind you, you 701 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: know something in their core memory Like hey, people ask me, hey, 702 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: rad what's the book that really resonates with you? And 703 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 1: I have to go back to the Babe Ruth story 704 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,359 Speaker 1: from seventh grade. Couldn't put it down and walked through 705 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,360 Speaker 1: the halls, was flipping the pages. A young kid loved baseball. 706 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: You know that's me And those are core memories that 707 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,959 Speaker 1: I feel like impact. Did you ever read Roger Kahn? 708 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: He wrote The Boys of Summer and Um, he wrote 709 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: a profile of Babe Ruth in my One of my 710 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,879 Speaker 1: favorite lines of any sportswriter was when he said that 711 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,439 Speaker 1: when when Babe Ruth moved center stage, moved with him. 712 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's just it was brilliant because he was 713 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: he was like super superhero. Uh, you know the Michael 714 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 1: Jordan's of his time or the Tiger Woods combined. Probably 715 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: he still is of our time today. It's Babe Ruth. 716 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: I mean he's living this legacy even a hundred years later. Really, 717 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's like here he is and we're talking 718 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:24,239 Speaker 1: about him because his book, that book seventh grade. A 719 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: little rat in seventh grade just obsessed with baseball. I 720 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,640 Speaker 1: wanted to go pro. Really, the teachers like you have. 721 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: Everybody's like you have to pick a book out of 722 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 1: the library and read it. And I was like, man, babe, 723 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,919 Speaker 1: Ruth done so. Actually, one of the screenplays that wrote 724 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: involves a one time pro baseball player who in his 725 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: first pro game, uh, gets beamed in the back of 726 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 1: the head. And this, based on a true story. Was 727 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 1: one player that got being and could never play again 728 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:03,320 Speaker 1: because he had benign vertigo. It was nine positional vertigo, 729 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,880 Speaker 1: which means that out of nowhere, all of a sudden, 730 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,280 Speaker 1: you're spinning and spinning, spinning around. So this player gets 731 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: involved in being suspected of a murder and he's trying 732 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,680 Speaker 1: to get away and prove he's innocent, and every time 733 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:23,080 Speaker 1: he gets into a crisis, his vertigo hits and so uh, anyway, 734 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,480 Speaker 1: but I love it. I love it. And he the 735 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,839 Speaker 1: way he coaches, he's a high school coach. The way 736 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 1: he coaches, he has baseball cards and he'll he'll pull 737 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,720 Speaker 1: him out to illustrate a point with the kids. Uh. 738 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: I forget the name spen so long since of Red 739 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: Mown screenplay, but there was one. I think it was 740 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,279 Speaker 1: a Yankee picture that only had one hand. Um, Jimbo Yeah, 741 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: Jim Abbot, thank you, Yes and so Yeah, you're welcome. 742 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 1: But one of his players is very Uh. One of 743 00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 1: his kids pictures has really upset about how bad things 744 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: are going. He said, things are great for you. Look 745 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,319 Speaker 1: at Jim Abbott. You know you could be him. Yeah, 746 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: look at Jim Abbot. Dude one arm, Yeah, rocks's glove 747 00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: on his fist. Okay, and then switches it and throws 748 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,279 Speaker 1: the ball. I have his rookie card. You're a kid, 749 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 1: let's go. No, I'm not funny thing. I love baseball. 750 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 1: I know nothing about baseball. But I was doing research 751 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,400 Speaker 1: because I knew who this character was, and so I 752 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,680 Speaker 1: had to do all this research on all these different 753 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,840 Speaker 1: players I had. Uh. Gene Hodges. Uh. The name of 754 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,960 Speaker 1: the screenplay is The Losing Streak, and it's the story 755 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,480 Speaker 1: that Scott love it. Gene Hodges went to like forty 756 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,320 Speaker 1: straight games without a hit and including in the World 757 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,760 Speaker 1: series and they would hold masses just for him, praying 758 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 1: for him. Hey, I could play a coach in the movie, 759 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 1: no problem, put me in. I'm ready to play, you 760 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,320 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Any we could just say I 761 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:55,640 Speaker 1: have been out of the league for a while, grew 762 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: my hair out. You know, it's like run the basis kids. 763 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,680 Speaker 1: So I just love doing the research and in uh, 764 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,759 Speaker 1: learning things that I knew nothing about and trying to 765 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,320 Speaker 1: write for repatively about them and uh, you know, write 766 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: something that you learn something while you're being entertained in. Uh. 767 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,239 Speaker 1: That's that's kind of what I try to do with 768 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:24,240 Speaker 1: this book. I mean it entertained me pertained. So well, 769 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 1: you're a dream chaser, uh, you know, John, and you 770 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,439 Speaker 1: went to bed and woke up and said I can 771 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,799 Speaker 1: do this, and you've pursued it, and it took you 772 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,760 Speaker 1: eighteen months to go from you know this getting signed 773 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,760 Speaker 1: with an agent to launching it out there. So anybody 774 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,520 Speaker 1: listening who has the thoughts of becoming a talent and 775 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 1: writing and getting your book out there, it's a process, right, 776 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,360 Speaker 1: and you just to stay the course for it and 777 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: uh and keep dreaming it, right, Because that's why I'm 778 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing. That's why John's doing. I'm sure 779 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: what John's doing is we're chasing what makes us happy, right, 780 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,560 Speaker 1: We're going after those types of um. Um, I guess 781 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 1: verifications in life. It's what am I looking for? I 782 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,279 Speaker 1: don't know. Affirmation happy, I'm happy? Yeah, affirmation yeah, thank 783 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,280 Speaker 1: you yeah exactly. Now, John, I've had you for almost 784 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 1: an hour. We've listened to you talk so well about 785 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,759 Speaker 1: the youth, U boats and your book, and I hate 786 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,200 Speaker 1: to wind it down, but I'm gonna let you go 787 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,520 Speaker 1: and if there's anything that you would like to close with, 788 00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,680 Speaker 1: I'll let you have a minute to say. Go ahead, 789 00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: if there's a website or anything you want to say, 790 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,239 Speaker 1: thank you very much. This has been a lot of fun. 791 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,680 Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed it. Uh. Yeah, I have my website 792 00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,799 Speaker 1: John Wynn Miller dot com where you can read more 793 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,040 Speaker 1: about me, about the book. Um, you can read about 794 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:45,200 Speaker 1: my lovely daughter Alison Miller, who's a star on ABC's 795 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,920 Speaker 1: a Million Little Things on the TV show. So I 796 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 1: dropped her name all the time. I jout out shout 797 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,920 Speaker 1: out joke when when I was growing up, I was 798 00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,680 Speaker 1: known as my father's son, and now I'm known as 799 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:05,960 Speaker 1: my daughter's father. So anyways, I hope you'll enjoy I 800 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: hope you'll read the book uh and find it Uh 801 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:15,600 Speaker 1: it's fun and entertaining, educational and also thought provoking about 802 00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,759 Speaker 1: what happens in in when when we stopped being tolerant, 803 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: in when ideology trump's honor and decency. So I think 804 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,759 Speaker 1: you'll have a good time if you read it. Well. 805 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: I can't end it on a better word than tolerance 806 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,640 Speaker 1: and uh decency with one another here. So as we 807 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: have been on the show, I appreciate that time with you. 808 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,839 Speaker 1: You've been eloquent and you're speaking and I'm sure on 809 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:47,880 Speaker 1: behalf of myself, the Soft Rep family community, Brandon Webb, 810 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,719 Speaker 1: everybody that's involved with this whole website. I just want 811 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,800 Speaker 1: to say thank you so much for being on the show. 812 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,920 Speaker 1: We'll talk about when it goes to movie next time, okay, 813 00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,320 Speaker 1: because I'm looking forward to being your coach. Whatever you need, Okay, 814 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,640 Speaker 1: you just let me know. But wonderful around. I hope 815 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,759 Speaker 1: you much success. Okay, thank you, John. And what that said, 816 00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,400 Speaker 1: this is rad your host on Soft Rep saying peace. 817 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,200 Speaker 1: Use them listening to self rep Lydia