Speaker 1: Call Zone Media. Hi friends, it's me James, and I
Speaker 1: just wanted to explain as you're listening to this. We
Speaker 1: recorded this around midnight on Friday, after having spent I
Speaker 1: think three days four nights in Minneapolis, and the tone
Speaker 1: of what we recorded here is hopeful. I remain hopeful
Speaker 1: and inspired by the people we met in Minneapolis, and
Speaker 1: I remained so proud of everything they've done. But about
Speaker 1: nine hours after we sent this off to our editors,
Speaker 1: Alex Pretty was killed by two Border Patrol agents, and
Speaker 1: the tone of this would have been different if we
Speaker 1: had recorded after that, And that's just the nature of
Speaker 1: the work we do. But we don't want anything in
Speaker 1: the hopeful tone here to suggest that we don't grieve
Speaker 1: his passing, that we aren't thinking of the people who
Speaker 1: loved him right now, because we understand that they're going
Speaker 1: through a very difficult time. But we still want you
Speaker 1: to learn from what's happening in Minneapolis and from what
Speaker 1: people are doing there, and we hope that you remember
Speaker 1: that as you did through this episode.
Speaker 2: And I think that, honestly, those two things that we
Speaker 2: have to balance just as we deal with the state
Speaker 2: of the world is just you know, everyone we talked to.
Speaker 2: This is so present on their minds. Is both an
Speaker 2: awareness of the beauty of the things that they are
Speaker 2: building and also an awareness of the darkness that has
Speaker 2: caused them to need to build these things. But anyway,
Speaker 2: we hope you enjoy these episodes and are following more
Speaker 2: closely with more current news about what's happening, and are
Speaker 2: talking to the people around you wherever you are about
Speaker 2: how you will keep yourself and your neighbors safe and yep, thank.
Speaker 1: You, Hello, and welcome to cool People could happen here
Speaker 1: it podcast, which is what happens when two podcasts love
Speaker 1: each other and go to Minneapolis to go on a
Speaker 1: trip to Minneapolis in the winter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where it is called.
Speaker 1: I am one of your hosts today. My name is
Speaker 1: James Stout and I'm very lucky to be joined by
Speaker 1: my friend Margaret Kiljoy.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to the thing that we're doing. M should
Speaker 2: we talking about today? We talked last time about some
Speaker 2: rapid response to mutual a and there's more to be
Speaker 2: said about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Today is the twenty third.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the past for you.
Speaker 1: All, but it's present for us. Yeah, it's amazing how
Speaker 1: podcasting work like that Today was.
Speaker 2: The second realish, real general strike I've been to in
Speaker 2: my life. Yeah, first one was in Oakland during Occupy Okay,
Speaker 2: so they pulled off a pretty serious general strike. Thousands
Speaker 2: of US shut down the ports. It was really beautiful.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was poss today, Lion, I had to
Speaker 1: shut shit down really, with the exception of the Federal building,
Speaker 1: which we will discuss. It's been remarkable. We've been here
Speaker 1: since Tuesday, it's Friday. How just the momentum has grown.
Speaker 1: Like seeing we went past someplace I think it was
Speaker 1: like a place that repaired like electronics of some description.
Speaker 1: They just had a little thing being like, attention, we're
Speaker 1: not opening on Friday. Like yeah, it's these businesses which
Speaker 1: have no reason, you know, like these outward facing reasons too.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not even businesses which rely on the
Speaker 1: community for business and have to signal the community that
Speaker 1: they're with them, right, it's just people who are being
Speaker 1: like yeah, nah, no, you know, like that seems shut. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's we got to do something. Let's all close down
Speaker 1: and go protest. One thing that I was sent and
Speaker 1: share this with you, Margaret, some unkind was a list
Speaker 1: of businesses that were like, yo, we will not be
Speaker 1: participating in like profit making today, but if you need X,
Speaker 1: that's what we do. Come by. Yeah, Like if you know,
Speaker 1: if you're hungry, if you're cold, if you need a
Speaker 1: cup of coffee, what if you need to bicycle fix
Speaker 1: whatever it is, Like if you want to screenprint abolish
Speaker 1: ice on a shirt? Yeah, swing my, Like we'll just
Speaker 1: be opened up for the community. Comes a high. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like we don't want your money, we just want your solidarity.
Speaker 1: Like I thought that was cool And.
Speaker 2: On some level it's been happening for a while to
Speaker 2: like to talk about how yesterday we went to power
Speaker 2: our Grounds.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, there is a indigenous own coffee shop called power Ground.
Speaker 2: They're actually worth donating directly too because of their mutual
Speaker 2: aid projects. That will probably be in the list of
Speaker 2: things that we include. And you go in and the
Speaker 2: coffee is free now, and you know, we were like, well,
Speaker 2: we want to pay you for tea, and they were like,
Speaker 2: you can pay us for tea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we were able to like put some money
Speaker 1: behind in case someone else came in and needed.
Speaker 2: Right, but the entire space has been taken over by
Speaker 2: a mutual aid organization. Yeah, And it's you know, indigenous run.
Speaker 2: We talked to someone from AIM American Indian Movement yea
Speaker 2: about the work they've been doing there, and you know
Speaker 2: which is that they've been you know, actually just turning
Speaker 2: it into like making sure everyone has everything they need.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: By creating these places that are good to hang out in,
Speaker 2: you make really good rapid response places. Yeah, we we
Speaker 2: you know, this is the first person we heard from
Speaker 2: about just like I was like, how does this work?
Speaker 2: How does the rapid response work? And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's more of us than there are them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we can keep showing up, like.
Speaker 2: And uh yeah, so like you know, people are people
Speaker 2: are hanging out there and so you know, and it's
Speaker 2: it's right in a place where Ice likes to fuck
Speaker 2: with people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well it's like for people who aren't familiar with
Speaker 1: that block, right, Like I've read a lot about AIM.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I'm interesting like that Franklin Avenue. I believe
Speaker 1: it's where AIM began. Right, Well, that's an understanding with
Speaker 1: Community Watch, which is what's happening now exactly, was doing
Speaker 1: patrols to keep their community safe. Yeah. So it's a
Speaker 1: cool little full circle movement. Yeah, this is a space
Speaker 1: which is obviously designed to like center and protect indigenous folks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they were just like, yeah, anyone who's out there
Speaker 1: doing the work, please come by. We got snack packs
Speaker 1: for you because it's we may. We've got four different soups,
Speaker 1: got a vegan soup, we got a gleam free soup.
Speaker 1: Like like, they were more than happy for folks to
Speaker 1: come by.
Speaker 2: Get fed, Yeah, get get warm. Yeah, big a big
Speaker 2: thing here, people, you know, sort of make light of.
Speaker 2: You know, there's the whole quip that Orally works on me,
Speaker 2: which is the like Ice made the classic Nazi mistake
Speaker 2: they invaded a winter people in winter, And that's true.
Speaker 2: But it is exceptionally cold right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like we last night, I think, due to an
Speaker 1: error on my part, were locked out of the place
Speaker 1: we are staying. Yeah, I think it's fairly clear that
Speaker 1: I fucked up there.
Speaker 2: That's fine.
Speaker 1: It becomes a risk to your well being pretty quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to put it in another way, how cold it is today.
Speaker 1: I took the battery out of Margaret's vehicle and blue
Speaker 1: hot air from a head ryer on it sometime so
Speaker 1: we could try and start it.
Speaker 2: So a jump would work because yeah, a jump wouldn't
Speaker 2: work without also heating up for the battery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the battery didn't have enough coal cranking.
Speaker 2: Yet to get Yeah, despite being a brand new battery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you need different times for your truck, You need
Speaker 1: different oil field vehicle, You need your battery to be warm. Yeah.
Speaker 2: People have engine block heaters for gas engines. I don't
Speaker 2: even have a diesel. Okay. So this morning we knew
Speaker 2: as the general strike, we went and got enough supplies
Speaker 2: to have enough food without having to go shopping today.
Speaker 2: And you know, we get up and we knew that
Speaker 2: there was going to be a direct action this morning
Speaker 2: at the Whipple building. And the Whipple Building is Oh
Speaker 2: I wish once this whole thing is scripted, you will
Speaker 2: understand all this better. But there is a building that
Speaker 2: used to be a fort and it was a fort
Speaker 2: in ye oldie even more murder of indigenous people times.
Speaker 2: And it was the fort from which they would go
Speaker 2: out and capture people. Yeah, and that is what it
Speaker 2: is again. It is the center of the ice operations here.
Speaker 2: It is where everyone has taken both citizen and non
Speaker 2: citizen for processing. And there's like one way in and
Speaker 2: one way way out. And there have been people I
Speaker 2: keep talking about. We were talking about this hyper local
Speaker 2: rap and response. Yeah, there's been people at the Whipple Building,
Speaker 2: at this wrap of a place.
Speaker 1: With one way and then one way, these places a
Speaker 1: fortress ass building. Yeah, right where it's really easy to
Speaker 1: kidnap people because the kidnap place is right there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there have been people there are basically every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like just blatantly being like we are here to
Speaker 1: track you all anti ice people have been there every day. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there was a call to go to it this morning,
Speaker 2: and so we did and you know as press. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we did not get there on time because my
Speaker 2: car absolutely that start.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but multiple people came to rescue us.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like multiple people showed up to help out of
Speaker 2: towners who aren't even core of were We weren't there
Speaker 2: to get stuff done. We're just here to talk about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like someone came to or for us to jump.
Speaker 1: Someone else was like, hey, did you get a jump? Yes,
Speaker 1: someone was like do you want to ride? Do you
Speaker 1: need to borrow my vehicle? Yeah? And these weren't people
Speaker 1: we known very long, but yeah, the longest we've known
Speaker 1: these people was since Tuesday, it's Friday, and.
Speaker 2: So people come up, get the vehicle working, We drive there,
Speaker 2: and the whole time both of us are moderately outdoorsy people, right,
Speaker 2: put it mildly in your case and to be accurate
Speaker 2: in my case. Yeah, Like, and we spent the whole
Speaker 2: time be like do we have enough gear?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Do we enough winter gear? You know we both have
Speaker 2: these new insulated boots we got for this trip. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and like I live in the mountains. You were a
Speaker 2: literal sports person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I enjoyed to be in the mat Yeah. When
Speaker 1: I have time, I will go into the mountains and
Speaker 1: sleep outside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is cold.
Speaker 1: It was cold. You know there's a cold when your
Speaker 1: noseheads freeze when you breathe in and then yeah, then
Speaker 1: there's a cold when you're like my eyes are like
Speaker 1: actually icing over. Yeah, like this is alarmingly cold.
Speaker 2: Is the coldest day here since twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: is what we learned.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and you know, when I talked to my
Speaker 2: friend before I came, I was like, it's going to
Speaker 2: be horrendously cold. Are people still going to show up?
Speaker 2: And you know, my friend who lives here is like, well,
Speaker 2: we will Ice will be miserable. Yeah, and we saw
Speaker 2: probably ten thousand people outside today. Yeah, between the two protests,
Speaker 2: mostly the larger one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, so we roll up right and there is
Speaker 1: a small shield wall barricading one of the waves that
Speaker 1: Ice gets into the Whipple building to incarcerated people who
Speaker 1: they have snatched. Yeah, there are probably half a dozen
Speaker 1: shields and then two big corrugated steel which.
Speaker 2: Is the level of bravery of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that is audacious, Yeah, because there will maybe
Speaker 1: one hundred people in that whole formation, right, and the
Speaker 1: shield walls facing two ways. We check it out. As
Speaker 1: we arrive, we see what we later learn was an
Speaker 1: Italian camera operator there had been maceed in the face.
Speaker 1: I just want to like break down again, Like we
Speaker 1: we've made light of the cold, and it's funny that
Speaker 1: it's cold. You get maced, right, generally you want to
Speaker 1: pour water on your face. Right. The clock is ticking
Speaker 1: pretty quickly once you start pouring liquid on exposed skin.
Speaker 1: In these temperatures, the clock is ticking on exposing skin
Speaker 1: in these temperatures, any exposed skin is dangerous. I have
Speaker 1: this like basically balaklava that I like, I don't wear
Speaker 1: to protest.
Speaker 2: That's sketchy. Yeah, And then I'm like, oh no, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna like die if I don't wear this thing that
Speaker 2: covers every inch of my face.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I have a helmet with goggles, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't wearing the goggles for particularly, like I didn't think
Speaker 1: I was going to get a pepper ball in the eye.
Speaker 1: I needed the air not to touch my eyes. So
Speaker 1: like this, this is amazing, is serious, right? And I
Speaker 1: saw that and I saw them pouring water and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh shit, actually that's quite grave. And they
Speaker 1: actually did have a staged water truck the spray people.
Speaker 1: They didn't spray people with water, but yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: we heard where there was a water truck staged in
Speaker 1: the in the parking lot. To be clear, like that
Speaker 1: could have killed someone really easily. Yeah. So then that
Speaker 1: was one entrance. We were like, let's go to go
Speaker 1: back the other entrance. See what the whole scene is here.
Speaker 1: As we're walking, first of all, we come past someone
Speaker 1: with one of those like trolleys that people pull. They
Speaker 1: have the better part of like a thousand tans and
Speaker 1: foot toe warmers, and they are stoked to be given
Speaker 1: them out right, So we put handwarmers inside our gloves.
Speaker 1: Then we see someone who's pulled up in a mini van.
Speaker 1: That is the warming car. People do get cold, they
Speaker 1: get in there and they warm them up. We come around,
Speaker 1: someone has snacks. Someone's playing public enemy. As we come
Speaker 1: around further, we see this is the place that I
Speaker 1: are coming in with people, right, And so there are
Speaker 1: people who were there shouting at them. I saw a
Speaker 1: couple of like snowballs thrown and like, yeah, there were
Speaker 1: people who are throwing snowballs, right, But there were also
Speaker 1: folks who just turned out to be like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm more of a that's not my vibe. But if
Speaker 1: you would like a snack while you're throwing them, I'm
Speaker 1: here for you. No one was like, hey, don't do that.
Speaker 1: Everyone was showing up in their own way, and that
Speaker 1: was really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like one of the things that you know,
Speaker 2: I asked at one point, I was like, what's the
Speaker 2: like discourse like about you know, the usual thing that
Speaker 2: divides people about, like I'm going to use air quotes here.
Speaker 2: You can't see but violence and non violence yeh, which
Speaker 2: are like complicated age, right, you know, and you know,
Speaker 2: and there's obviously people like we've met people who've been
Speaker 2: like and we're non violent, and they're like really excited,
Speaker 2: and that's an important party.
Speaker 1: Who had yellow vests on being like peaceful observer, don't shoot.
Speaker 2: Right, And then there's also people who are like, we
Speaker 2: didn't see any of it, but there's graffiti all over town.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like fuck peace justice doesn't bring him back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like, what's the discourse like between
Speaker 2: these groups? And everyone we've talked to is like, there
Speaker 2: isn't time for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we go shit to be doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you know, even when people are discussing things,
Speaker 2: they'll try to start having a discussion and someone's like, hey,
Speaker 2: Ice is on that corner. Yeah, and not that these
Speaker 2: discussions aren't worth it. Well, I famously my pinned post
Speaker 2: on Blue Sky's discourse is the mind Killer. But like,
Speaker 2: and you can see se just like right here, right,
Speaker 2: because there's people who are like, when you show up
Speaker 2: with shields at a shield wall at blocking a federal
Speaker 2: agents from being somewhere, you're clearly being mildly antagonistic, right,
Speaker 2: it is as a rowdy thing to do. And you know,
Speaker 2: and at the same time, right, like we didn't make
Speaker 2: it to this because they were happening at the same
Speaker 2: time more or less, but not very far away at
Speaker 2: the airport. We're not the news in this particular case.
Speaker 2: It could happen here is a news show, but this
Speaker 2: is still not the news. We're reporting right now, like
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty clergy people were restless of all
Speaker 2: disobedience because the airport's being used to transport people away.
Speaker 2: Did real quick tangent about that. I think it's really
Speaker 2: beautiful because there's so much you know that the national
Speaker 2: presses of course, like these anti Christian people attack church,
Speaker 2: and like, you know, the churches are on our side,
Speaker 2: except like one or.
Speaker 1: Two if we were staying next to our church. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like we get up in the morning that first day,
Speaker 1: we heard the honking and we see like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: church has got a sign being like yeah, I've knowniced ice.
Speaker 1: It seems bad. Yeah, I think is not what Jesus
Speaker 1: would have done.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're at the thing and you know, we're like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is happening, and we start seeing the police getting
Speaker 2: ready to use munitions.
Speaker 1: Right, we come back from the first place to where
Speaker 1: the shield wall was, right, right, shield wall is no
Speaker 1: longer there, we think, huh, weird, no shield wall.
Speaker 2: And there's a line of police.
Speaker 1: Oh look at that. It's Hennepin County Sheriff Department. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean that's the thing is that it's
Speaker 2: always really sad when you come back and expect to
Speaker 2: see a shield wall and instead there's a line of police. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and they are yelling dispersal orders at the at the
Speaker 2: shield wall, which is already banked dispersed.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They're like they're they've been they've been pushed away. We
Speaker 2: can't hundred yards away. Yeah, like we we just like
Speaker 2: straight up can't see them. And we are told and
Speaker 2: no uncertain terms by some other folks who are standing.
Speaker 2: This is not a large crowd. The crowd has been
Speaker 2: moved and we're just kind of yeah, the crafts between
Speaker 2: us in our car.
Speaker 1: One, two, three, four, five, six of us. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: six of us. And I was I was counting people
Speaker 1: in my head. I can I can't stay sick.
Speaker 2: No, No, you're right, And two of the people were
Speaker 2: standing next to are like, yeah, if you cross this
Speaker 2: red line. They told us that if we crossed this
Speaker 2: red line, the National Guard will shoot us dead. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it we did not test that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure if they would A bit near
Speaker 1: young over song about it.
Speaker 2: Right, and we're not in Ohio would be fine.
Speaker 1: And minniesry to National Guard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they they are not letting us go.
Speaker 1: Yeah. To be clear, the red line would have signified
Speaker 1: we were entering into like a military area.
Speaker 2: Right, totally with no like barricades or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Just they had barricades further along, right, Yeah, to make
Speaker 1: vehicles weave yet drive straight up.
Speaker 2: It's the side of a public road where the light
Speaker 2: rail station. So there's the line of police and they're
Speaker 2: mostly facing away from us. There's about two people facing
Speaker 2: towards us. Are cars between them. We are marked press.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and wearing a bright red helmet with pressed to
Speaker 1: us on it. Blue helmet with presto because really black.
Speaker 1: The first the cops keep pushing the shield wall further
Speaker 1: away from us, and we hear them on the l rad.
Speaker 1: This has been declared an lawful assembly. I did hear
Speaker 1: somebody shout by who? That is a very good question, honestly. Yeah. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the Hennepin County Sheriff's Department were not very interested in
Speaker 1: answering questions. Yeah, and the way that we learned this
Speaker 1: is that a couple of people I would call them
Speaker 1: older folks just from looking at them from a distance.
Speaker 2: They weren't the young rowdies holding shields.
Speaker 1: They were absolutely not know. It was an older gentleman
Speaker 1: in a male presenting person in carharts right, who walked
Speaker 1: up coveralls, yeah, yeah, with hands up right, very clearly
Speaker 1: hands up and seemed to be asking or talking. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was like probably going up to being like, hey,
Speaker 2: what's happening? Yeah, like whatever, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Can I go over there? That person was arrested. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so was another person who was with them. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they were told they were arrested on the l rad.
Speaker 2: We could hear them. Yeah you are onto our.
Speaker 1: Ros Yeah yeah, that was very strange.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then a bus arrived, more cops got out, and those
Speaker 1: two people were put on the bus. Yeah, three people,
Speaker 1: there's three, three of them, three on the bus. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: the majority of the police in turn to face us, yeah.
Speaker 2: All six by now, there's probably twelve of us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because because other people are like, hey, my car's over
Speaker 2: there too, Yeah.
Speaker 1: They're there in between us and where we parked our cars.
Speaker 1: Right now. Yeah, And then they turn the l rad
Speaker 1: around right, and then they tell us that they have
Speaker 1: issued a dispersal order due to something about like a
Speaker 1: legal conduct, which again, we are standing on the platform
Speaker 1: with a light rail station at this point, and I've
Speaker 1: seen no one do anything other than stand around. I've
Speaker 1: seen someone through us noble up somewhere else we're in
Speaker 1: a different location. And then they say we have five
Speaker 1: minutes to disperse, and they they give us a cardinal direction.
Speaker 2: We have to disperse east onto a road that no
Speaker 2: one with us knew what was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all looking like we're in a kind of
Speaker 1: weird amazing. I had previously tried to walk up to
Speaker 1: this line and be like can we go through to
Speaker 1: our car please?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would like to disperse, Yeah, because at this
Speaker 2: point we're like this is just going bad. Yeah, we're
Speaker 2: pressed now.
Speaker 1: To be there, right. We're here to report and if
Speaker 1: we get arrested, we can't report and there's nothing to
Speaker 1: report on, yeah, because the cops have cattled us with
Speaker 1: two other press.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the rest of the Italian news crew who can't don't.
Speaker 1: Have a camera, but they're still trying to do reporting.
Speaker 2: But brave as hell yeah, because they're just still standing
Speaker 2: there and they're like, yeah, you know, fake Italian accents,
Speaker 2: and they're just like our camera person got made.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'll be fine, but they got made.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so the cops had very clearly indicated that they
Speaker 1: were not interested in that arrangement. So we went back
Speaker 1: to standing there wondering which way was east. I was
Speaker 1: trying to get under my last my watch, I could
Speaker 1: pull up a company.
Speaker 2: I had figured out which way was east. I even
Speaker 2: had a suspicion about how to go that, but I
Speaker 2: am willing. I believe I'm talking to other people who
Speaker 2: are elsewhere there that day, that day, today, this morning.
Speaker 2: It's been a long day. I don't normally drink caffeine.
Speaker 2: I am on caffeine. I believe that is where the
Speaker 2: other line of police was starting to kettle people from it.
Speaker 2: It seems like, so I actually believe they were not
Speaker 2: actually offering us away out at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, on the other hand, was readers. I couldn't
Speaker 1: get to my watch it was I knew it was
Speaker 1: before noon, so I was looking for where the sun
Speaker 1: was and I knew some celestial navigation, and at that
Speaker 1: point we saw well, actually at that point, we went
Speaker 1: to the train platform and a light rail train was
Speaker 1: going not towards our carpet away from it. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it didn't open the doors when it came to the platform. Yeah.
Speaker 2: We were like, we want to call though, I said.
Speaker 1: Margaret, We're fucked. Margaret said get ready to run. I
Speaker 1: guess yeah. And then as they were advancing towards us, comrade,
Speaker 1: light rail train arrived. Everyone got on.
Speaker 2: The train literally last minute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, scootle straight past the police line.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then we got off and commenced walking around to
Speaker 1: try and find a way back to our vehicle. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that was our morning. That was I mean, whatever,
Speaker 2: it's weird, the party is least affected, but to be
Speaker 2: like really just transparent about it. This is the coldest
Speaker 2: day of my life. I've experienced negative temperatures before. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I haven't experienced negative thirty something windchill.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like we were seeing people getting off the light rail.
Speaker 2: Everyone's eye lashes had frost in them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, just to just to keep hitting that point, well,
Speaker 2: like that was one.
Speaker 1: Of my concerns with detainment, right with like corps ledgendarily
Speaker 1: don't treat people in their custody very well, right, and
Speaker 1: I was very worried about right two, they did seem
Speaker 1: to be getting the people they arrested quickly on that bus. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like that was my worries, right. You get if
Speaker 1: you lose a glove when you're being handcuffed, that's not
Speaker 1: a that's you know, that's serious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like maybe you lose your fingers now at
Speaker 2: the end of that like, because it's like genuinely like
Speaker 2: a I know, we keep harping on it, but it's
Speaker 2: just it's a it's a present characteristic. Yeah, my car
Speaker 2: is a mess right now because we can't clean it
Speaker 2: because that involves standing outside in like negative eighteen or whatever.
Speaker 2: The fuck.
Speaker 1: All of these numbers have become meaningless to me at
Speaker 1: this point anyway. You know what keeps me warm, Margaret,
Speaker 1: the handwarmers we purchase with the money that we get
Speaker 1: from advertisements. Yeah. I was gonna say, thinking about thinking
Speaker 1: about how the products and services support the show love
Speaker 1: to support me and the work I do. But I
Speaker 1: don't think they actually know what I do and look.
Speaker 2: Listen to numbers to be honest, Yeah, I think they
Speaker 2: don't hear our transitions shit, and they don't And here
Speaker 2: they are.
Speaker 1: Enter back.
Speaker 2: So we we go to this and then we go
Speaker 2: to the clear highlight of the day, which is the
Speaker 2: ice call crashed and yeah, yeah, that is when we
Speaker 2: decided we got to we we received word that an
Speaker 2: ice vehicle had t boned telephone.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was doing a blue sky thread and I
Speaker 2: was like, Nope, that's a shorter thread.
Speaker 1: Because we gotta go. Yeah. I'm not as good as
Speaker 1: Margaret is at skating when I'm at things, so I'm
Speaker 1: so used to being in places where it would be
Speaker 1: a risky to everyone involved. Yeah, posted I was there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we yeah, we go, right, we park a few
Speaker 1: bucks away. Once we see flashing lights. Yeah, we start
Speaker 1: booging up the street at fast walk pace, which is
Speaker 1: about as fast as you're gonna go when it's an
Speaker 1: inch of ice on everything. Yeah, and we see this
Speaker 1: car that has faired. There's traffic coming roundabout that. Clearly
Speaker 1: they were not expecting to be there. It looks like
Speaker 1: they've they've been trying to go straight over to roundabout
Speaker 1: and have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just like the front of their car is
Speaker 2: just crashed in a fifteen mile per hour street.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, like a street where like you would expect
Speaker 1: a trial to be riding a bicycle in the summer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like it's one of those streets that's
Speaker 2: like cars on both sides one one lane that two
Speaker 2: cars have to pass each other by backing up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and they clearly just blew through it. They don't give
Speaker 2: a fuck. And that's like a thing we've heard over
Speaker 2: and over from the people who tail them is that
Speaker 2: they they drive erradically, they drive, they drive recklessly because
Speaker 2: they are they think they're immune to all consequences. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and they are. They are until someone like the only
Speaker 2: people giving them consequences are the people of the city,
Speaker 2: not in the city itself or the state.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the thing. Actually, I'll just I have
Speaker 1: spent more time than nearly everyone at the southern border
Speaker 1: of the United States, in more places right in California,
Speaker 1: in Texas, in New Mexico, in Arizona, ave been up
Speaker 1: and down the border. There is one thing that unites
Speaker 1: the border experience, be it on torn or Tumb Reservation
Speaker 1: in Arizona, be in San Diego being New Mexico, or
Speaker 1: in the Rio Grand Valley of Texas, and it is
Speaker 1: that border patrols driving is a risk to everyone, and
Speaker 1: you can hear the most straight up right wing people.
Speaker 1: I think. I love what they're doing. I don't want
Speaker 1: the Margarets in my country, but I wish they wouldn't
Speaker 1: drive like digs and like they've killed people on the
Speaker 1: Autumn reservation, right, Like this is serious and that what
Speaker 1: is happening once again is that the border is coming
Speaker 1: to a city and people are seeing this is not new,
Speaker 1: it's new here.
Speaker 2: The driving erratically is such a perfect though example of
Speaker 2: like what power does to people, Like you have an
Speaker 2: unaccountable force, and they will do horrible things. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: will do major horrible things like kidnapping people, and they'll
Speaker 2: do heady I don't care, I am just drunk on
Speaker 2: power things.
Speaker 1: Or they will leave the cars and drive when they
Speaker 1: pull them out right, like the second topic the park,
Speaker 1: or like yeah, in this case, they will case a
Speaker 1: telephone pole.
Speaker 2: Right anyway, So then we decide we're going to the
Speaker 2: big march downtown. Yeah, you know, because the general strike
Speaker 2: has a component that is a big march downtown. And
Speaker 2: the single most important thing about that to me was
Speaker 2: again to keep harping on it the cold because I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people who go to these sorts
Speaker 2: of marches, right, and these are the sorts of marches
Speaker 2: that a lot of people go to who don't necessarily
Speaker 2: do a ton of other political activity. Although here it
Speaker 2: probably feels a little different because a lot of the
Speaker 2: people go into that march who probably are the kind
Speaker 2: of sign holding going to the big march kind of
Speaker 2: people are also quite possibly at the very least showing
Speaker 2: up on air whistles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you doing the work right, the buying the groceries
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Yeah, like I think one thing I
Speaker 1: was started. So we're walking towards march, and it is
Speaker 1: one of the genies that you gets a lot when
Speaker 1: you're going to a big action, right, You feel like
Speaker 1: a salmon and everyone's just swimming up the swimming in
Speaker 1: the stream together or you know whatever, tuna and you're
Speaker 1: all going towards the same space. And that's cool. That's
Speaker 1: always nice to feel the size. And then we get
Speaker 1: there and it's big, like there's a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and it's cold, Like, I know, we keep popping on
Speaker 1: about the cold. It is cold as shit. Margaret's ear
Speaker 1: was a little bit out. We were both worried about
Speaker 1: Margaret's ear. Yeah, like it's you want to ensure it,
Speaker 1: like skin coverage in these temperatures. Yeah, we get there
Speaker 1: and like so they're meeting in like a big square
Speaker 1: and then they're marching through the street, right, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there are also people on like there are internal walkways
Speaker 1: between buildings above the street and all of them around
Speaker 1: with people with signs or cheering and stuff. And the
Speaker 1: thing I noticed as we got there was like immediately
Speaker 1: we set foot in that square, we're once again being
Speaker 1: offered hot cocoa handwarmers. There's a guy with like a
Speaker 1: you know, there's orange insulated containers. They use it like sports,
Speaker 1: like a gator. He's got soup in it. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: backpacking the supers. It's vegan and gluten free and he's
Speaker 1: handing out soup. There are multiple people who have just
Speaker 1: set up to care for people because it's cold and
Speaker 1: people might need caring for, right, Like, there are all
Speaker 1: kinds of facilities there to like look after folk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we received I have some hand warmers. I think you
Speaker 1: and I both took some hand warmers. And there wasn't
Speaker 1: at least where we were like a speaker, there was
Speaker 1: some chanting. Yeah, at this point, like I would love
Speaker 1: to include to be a role of chanting. Unfortunately it
Speaker 1: was so cold that both my voice recorders refused to work.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, one by one, every electronic device that James
Speaker 2: brought ate shit, and I like, you know, I'm much
Speaker 2: you'll listen to my shit. I'm much more of a
Speaker 2: ViBe's podcaster where I like just observe and then write
Speaker 2: everything down. James is a proper podcaster and journalist and like, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, as b roll of things, not.
Speaker 1: As much today yet, everybody, my voice recorder, which has
Speaker 1: been through the Darien Gap as it tended this Syrian
Speaker 1: civil war, it's been to the place where the US
Speaker 1: dropped a nuclear bomb. It didn't make it out of Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: It's gone to Valhalla now, yeah, which is sad. I
Speaker 1: even tried to record on my phone, but my phone
Speaker 1: just black screened.
Speaker 2: On me like this comedy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty funny when when the cell phone tied,
Speaker 1: it was like previously I had been painting a picture
Speaker 1: fuel using my nose to unlock the phone and then
Speaker 1: like actuate apps because I didn't want to take my
Speaker 1: glove off.
Speaker 2: We would we would take turns taking our hands out
Speaker 2: of gloves to touch buttons on things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or to like adjust you chose clothes, or like, yeah,
Speaker 1: someone watched me doing the phone thing and they gave
Speaker 1: me a nod like yeah doing the nose phone Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah totally, and like I don't know, I just I
Speaker 2: keep talking about how the sense of togetherness it's inspiring. Like,
Speaker 2: full disclosure, I'm not a big rally person. I'm much
Speaker 2: personally more interested in mutual aid and direct action. I'm
Speaker 2: disinterested in it when it seems like a way for
Speaker 2: people to check off that they've done their resistance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely if that feels like you're warm, fuzzy and
Speaker 1: that's all you want.
Speaker 2: But in this case, it was more I don't know
Speaker 2: for certain, it was more of a warm fuzzy for
Speaker 2: people who we were also just doing this hard thing
Speaker 2: day in and day out.
Speaker 1: It felt like when you and your friends, like, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're doing a hard, long, neutral aid thing, right,
Speaker 1: you know, like or let's say you're engaged in a
Speaker 1: project that feeds people every week and once a year
Speaker 1: you get together and have a dinner together. Right, it
Speaker 1: felt a bit like that, or like yeah, you know
Speaker 1: a little bit like when we were feeding people in
Speaker 1: the desert. We would sit down afterwards and talking about
Speaker 1: this with someone Today, we would like eat vegan MRIs
Speaker 1: out of the packets like people eat go goots, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because we were too tired to walk off food while
Speaker 1: we were hungry. But we would just spend a little
Speaker 1: bit of time in community and celebrate what we've done.
Speaker 1: What was cool though, was like sometimes after those big
Speaker 1: actions you feel a little lonely, but like it felt
Speaker 1: like that was just everyone going over there, but like
Speaker 1: there was also everyone elsewhere as you kind of went
Speaker 1: around the city, you know, right, Like it wasn't like
Speaker 1: that was the end of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was I was worried it would, you know,
Speaker 2: draw people away from other things. But you know, even
Speaker 2: this huge crowd was only a tiny portion of the
Speaker 2: people doing things in the city. People are still doing things.
Speaker 2: And at one point I was like, hey, it's maybe
Speaker 2: it's Thursday. We were like, hey, we still less people
Speaker 2: out today. Was that because the cold was starting to
Speaker 2: dry people inside? And we talked to someone and they're like, no,
Speaker 2: ice was less out today than it was yesterday. But
Speaker 2: if ice had come out, all of those people would
Speaker 2: have come out again. They were all staged and ready
Speaker 2: to go. And one of the things, actually, the warm
Speaker 2: fuzzy thing that feeling. One of the things that we
Speaker 2: talked to is that people are very aware that they're
Speaker 2: organizing for the long haul. Like yeah, you know, I again,
Speaker 2: I'm I don't have the news in front of me.
Speaker 2: But the word on the ground here is people being like,
Speaker 2: we think ice might be here till June, right, and
Speaker 2: so people are like, how do we do that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And one of the things is that, like there are
Speaker 2: people providing things to the people doing things, you know,
Speaker 2: the people whose job is to provide things for other
Speaker 2: people or having people provide things for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's this moment I think about all the time.
Speaker 2: I'll accidentally do like the you know. It was at
Speaker 2: this protest in the Netherlands and the cops try to
Speaker 2: grab my friend. Yeah, and they try to grab him
Speaker 2: because he's screaming the Netherlands as a police state, which
Speaker 2: they try to make their point by trying to grab him, right,
Speaker 2: So everyone holds on to him, So the cops start
Speaker 2: just beating the crap out of the people holding on
Speaker 2: to him. So people start grabbing onto the people who
Speaker 2: are holding on to the person they start trying to
Speaker 2: beat the people who are holding on to the people
Speaker 2: who a holding on to the people who are holding
Speaker 2: on to the people. By the time he gets to
Speaker 2: like four layers out, the cops are just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: fucking yeah, fuck this all right. The center person is
Speaker 2: never arrested, you know. And that's what solidarity is. But
Speaker 2: that's also a lot of the mutual aid stuff, like
Speaker 2: we're talking about to people who are like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: work day in and day out on this stuff, and
Speaker 2: other people are like massage therapists and regular therapists are
Speaker 2: talking with us, you know, and like people are building
Speaker 2: the infrastructure to try and make it sustainable and who knows,
Speaker 2: I don't know whether you can truly sustain what's happening here, right,
Speaker 2: but like they're going to fucking try.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The way I like to explain anarchism to people
Speaker 1: who's there's sometimes the confusion, right that people think anarchism
Speaker 1: is a predilection for chaos and violence, and that's not
Speaker 1: what it is. I like to explain the anarchism at
Speaker 1: its core is building ways of caring for one another
Speaker 1: that don't reinforce ways of controlling one another. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: that's what people are doing here, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, under any name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't mean the rest of it is really ephemeral.
Speaker 2: A lot of them are anarchists, but not not anywhere
Speaker 2: near the majority of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that we can use what Gym's
Speaker 1: got called the anarchist squint, right, and see, yes, people
Speaker 1: building networks here that make the state unnecessary. Yeah, irrelevant
Speaker 1: right now. Understand violence is still very much relevant, but others. Right,
Speaker 1: the Feds are going to cut funding. Yeah, they can
Speaker 1: cut foodstamps in Minnesota. Yeah, people are still going to
Speaker 1: get food to their neighbors. Right. They can cut education funding.
Speaker 1: We heard that there are schools which have a very
Speaker 1: diverse background. And by the diverse here, I don't just
Speaker 1: mean like people of different races, but also people of
Speaker 1: different income brackets, right, And the wealthier parents are like,
Speaker 1: which families aren't able to work? How do I help
Speaker 1: them make their rent? Yeah? Oh god.
Speaker 2: It was funny when yeah people were like, oh, you
Speaker 2: know the thing where like the rich parents are like
Speaker 2: really excited to help everyone and feed everyone. I was like, no, that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's how you realize that's not the stereotype like.
Speaker 1: It should be. Yeah, it should be. Well, I think
Speaker 1: folks are really like, huh, what do the world without
Speaker 1: these people look like worse? I don't want that? Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: what do I have that I can use to stop that?
Speaker 1: I have my time, I have my body, I have
Speaker 1: my money. Let me give them all of them? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought that was very cool. I think the the
Speaker 1: specific thing that has made people. I saw little signs
Speaker 1: they have the name for one of the guys from
Speaker 1: like Liam, the young, very very young kid, right, the
Speaker 1: five year old kid with the Superman but when it
Speaker 1: was yeah, grabbed the spider Man. Yeah, he was grabbed
Speaker 1: the other day. I saw a lot of people with
Speaker 1: science about.
Speaker 2: That, Like it made me want to cry. And just
Speaker 2: seeing the signs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, these little outrages continue to bring people out
Speaker 1: of their safe, warm comfort bubbles and be like no,
Speaker 1: like I am going to do whatever it takes, my money,
Speaker 1: my time, whatever, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know William van s Bronson. Yes, for people
Speaker 2: who are listening, there was a an IWW member named
Speaker 2: William von s Bronson who was killed by ice a
Speaker 2: number of years ago now because he decided that he
Speaker 2: would go and try to set some ice stuff on
Speaker 2: fire middle of the night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was buses, right, unoccupied buses to
Speaker 1: be clear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, middle of the night, empty buses, the buses that
Speaker 2: they're using to kidnap people, and the cops showed up
Speaker 2: and killed them.
Speaker 1: Yeah right.
Speaker 2: And he was seen as kind of this, this lone
Speaker 2: wing nut. Yeah, you know, and I'm watching it and
Speaker 2: I'm like, this man is going to be written about
Speaker 2: history books as like a guy actually started doing something
Speaker 2: early about this. And it is his statement that he wrote.
Speaker 2: I'm not telling people that this was a wise action
Speaker 2: for him to have taken, whatever, you know, But in
Speaker 2: his statement he wrote he wrote a line something like,
Speaker 2: I am off to fulfill my childhood promise to myself
Speaker 2: to be noble, and like he knew he was going
Speaker 2: to die doing that actually, right. That certainly seems to
Speaker 2: be the tone from the letter. But that line the
Speaker 2: idea of fulfilling your promise to yourself to be noble,
Speaker 2: And the thing that is beautiful here is that you
Speaker 2: can now do that with people and effectively. And I
Speaker 2: think that a lot of the things that stop people
Speaker 2: from taking action is a belief that it would be
Speaker 2: shot in the dark, it would be alone thing, it
Speaker 2: wouldn't it wouldn't accomplish anything, right, because most actions you
Speaker 2: can take yourself don't accomplish nearly as much. And to
Speaker 2: be clear that the people who built rapid response networks
Speaker 2: here they learn from other cities. They learn from Chicago,
Speaker 2: who learned from la Right, that is the lineage that
Speaker 2: I've heard presented, but they have developed and expanded because
Speaker 2: this is actually a bigger thing than operation on ices,
Speaker 2: part than either of those. But so people can do
Speaker 2: We've been put on this earth to do, which is
Speaker 2: be our best selves. And I think that there's even
Speaker 2: as hard as it is for people, I think that
Speaker 2: there's a dark beauty that they get to know who
Speaker 2: they are, and they get to know that they are
Speaker 2: people who will make sandwiches, you know, because that's the thing,
Speaker 2: and they will risk everything to make sandwiches. They will
Speaker 2: risk everything to follow ice vehicles. Imagine following a murderer
Speaker 2: down the street. This man's a murderer, yeah, mad right
Speaker 2: here shoots people.
Speaker 1: Well, not just that, right, this person has the power
Speaker 1: to kill me and not face consequences.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what they're shouting at people. Yeah, and everyone
Speaker 2: is shouting at at them. Yeah yeah, and it works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's people who you wouldn't expect the people
Speaker 1: he would expect, both together alongside each other. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think a lot about how like how much things have
Speaker 1: changed in this country in a year. Lots of it's bad, right,
Speaker 1: But like, abolish ice was a pretty niche position in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Let me tell you you didn't really hear it, right,
Speaker 1: Abolish ice is a compromise position.
Speaker 2: Now as the centrist position. Yeah, that is reform ice
Speaker 2: center right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I reform ice is in some parts of
Speaker 1: the Republican body right. Abolish ice is pretty much in
Speaker 1: between the two. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The political parties haven't caught up to this fact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they'd never do. They always take longer than
Speaker 1: everyone else. But let me tell you, there was you know,
Speaker 1: what would Ronald Reagan guy do when you've lost the
Speaker 1: what would Ronald Reagan guy do? You're in fucking trouble? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this country?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I love how it's like we talked to
Speaker 2: a lot of people with a lot of different political ideas.
Speaker 2: Most people didn't have. This is my political ideology expressed. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but like you know, people are like just blunt, like, well,
Speaker 2: it would be better if the politicians were doing it
Speaker 2: and they're not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this lady who Again, the lady said, oh,
Speaker 1: there's are local cops. You don't have to worry about them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A couple of days later it turned out. But she
Speaker 1: was like, it would be great about politicians are with us,
Speaker 1: but they're not. So we're gonna do it ourselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's all you need. The lady's done more anarchism than
Speaker 1: your your average internet anarchist who's out there fed posting
Speaker 1: every day. Yeah all right, Yeah that's really all you need.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we're gonna take one more ad break.
Speaker 1: That's all you really need is advertisements.
Speaker 2: And it goes a little something like this, and we're back.
Speaker 2: I feel warmed in my belly by those advertisements.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopere do you buy something that you don't need?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hopefully you skip past them.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, maybe double tap the old headphone button.
Speaker 1: It normally goes twenty seconds.
Speaker 2: See the problem is that I like, I don't usually
Speaker 2: I listen to a lot of podcasts, and I don't
Speaker 2: have cooler zone media because I have Android.
Speaker 1: Yeah so I have to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, so I the ads come home.
Speaker 1: Remember if you tag I write, Okay, if you have
Speaker 1: any issues regarding the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'll that will definitely work.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so sometimes when I'm like, because I listen to
Speaker 2: a lot of podcasts while I'm like doing like woodworking
Speaker 2: or like yeah yeah doing some of my hands. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so I like am like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: put down the saw in order.
Speaker 1: Yeahs, So I do it with my with my left
Speaker 1: earlone against my shoulder. It's how I skip them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I didn't have coolest own media either, but maybe
Speaker 1: you do, which you only a diversion about ship that
Speaker 1: doesn't bother you, Lucky, Lucky.
Speaker 2: We will have a lot more reporting. This isn't the
Speaker 2: end of the episode, but we'll have a lot more
Speaker 2: reporting about Minneapolis and the structures that people are building,
Speaker 2: and Minneapolis and Saint Paul and the outlying areas that
Speaker 2: someone kind of correctly checked me on the fact that
Speaker 2: I keep saying Minneapolis, it's just my day. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: things are different, but things are different blocked by block,
Speaker 2: but a lot of that we really want to kind
Speaker 2: of do right and we're going to write scripted, but
Speaker 2: we're just really kind of in it right now and
Speaker 2: really want to talk about this and what part of
Speaker 2: the reason we want to talk about this so soon
Speaker 2: because things happen really fast, and just that everyone we've
Speaker 2: talked to has told us that they they want people
Speaker 2: to know. You know, the horrors are getting out on
Speaker 2: some level, which is good. It is actually good that
Speaker 2: people are learning all these horrible things, but a lot
Speaker 2: of them, the scale of the resistance isn't getting out,
Speaker 2: and the efficacy of the resistance isn't getting out, And
Speaker 2: people want people to know because they want people to
Speaker 2: know that they can do it too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, so someone had like like a shocking these
Speaker 1: Someone had a stupid opinion on the internet. Someone had
Speaker 1: said that, like talking about this makes it dangerous cities people. No,
Speaker 1: first of all, I.
Speaker 2: Mean there are things that we don't know that we
Speaker 2: shouldn't we wouldn't say, but like sure there are things
Speaker 2: that yeah, yeah, there are things that we wouldn't ask
Speaker 2: about or that people wouldn't give us interviews about if
Speaker 2: you thought they were dangerous.
Speaker 1: Right, But like, what makes it safe is that everyone
Speaker 1: is doing it right. What makes us safe is that
Speaker 1: there are more of us and what people asked us
Speaker 1: to do with share this because they are safe for
Speaker 1: review do it too. Yeah, right, there are hens of
Speaker 1: millions of people who were just as outraged as that
Speaker 1: older lady that we met on the first day. And
Speaker 1: what keeps that lady safe and your neighbor safe and
Speaker 1: her neighbor safe, and people who you've never met safe
Speaker 1: and yourself? Yeah, and yourself is you doing it too? Right?
Speaker 1: Like if it stops here, if you can't grab migrants
Speaker 1: off the street here, then you can't grab dissidence off
Speaker 1: the street somewhere else, right, And.
Speaker 2: Like you know, we've seen all over graffiti and you know,
Speaker 2: we saw a huge piece of graffiti at the ice
Speaker 2: building base.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I read it into the mic. Actually it was
Speaker 1: my mic was working.
Speaker 3: First it came to the undocumented, and I said nothing
Speaker 3: because I wasn't undocumented. Then they came for the Somalis,
Speaker 3: and I said nothing because I was not Somali. Then
Speaker 3: they came for the activists, and I said nothing, for
Speaker 3: I was not an activist.
Speaker 1: Then they came for me.
Speaker 2: I am so grateful that we live in a generation
Speaker 2: that has read that poem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and seem to be taking it to harm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and more people have than I thought. And I
Speaker 2: think I think all the time about solidarity shocked to
Speaker 2: know this.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Obviously, the moment that makes me cry on the most
Speaker 2: regular basis is, of course, the charge of the Rohrom,
Speaker 2: when the riders of Rohan ride to Gondor to face
Speaker 2: the anyway, even though Gondor wasn't there for them. Where
Speaker 2: was Gondor? But part of the reason that I love
Speaker 2: solidarity so much is because, like I keep joking that
Speaker 2: I'm going to write the Misanthropic Introvert Guide to Socialism
Speaker 2: m hm, because like I misanthropic introvert at that heart, right,
Speaker 2: I also love people, right, yeah, and I most I
Speaker 2: love most people over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And I grew up not proud to say, pretty self interested, right,
Speaker 2: and I was like very lost in my own head
Speaker 2: and kind of selfish. And and I very quickly esuponed
Speaker 2: as meeting anarchists and meeting people who believed in responsibility
Speaker 2: and freedom was like, oh, I am safer and more
Speaker 2: free and more able to express my full self if
Speaker 2: I am part of a community of solidarity.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so even though in the immediate moment it is
Speaker 2: more dangerous, like there's the old joke about like you
Speaker 2: don't have to be faster than the barrier. You just
Speaker 2: have to be faster than your friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That is the single worst idea in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because then bandstart eating people.
Speaker 2: Right. So if there is a monster and you can
Speaker 2: outrun someone, so you think you're safe, you now have
Speaker 2: to be the fastest person.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, right, you're safe until you're not.
Speaker 2: To be part of a community that turns around and
Speaker 2: fights the monster might be more dangerous for yourself in
Speaker 2: the immediate sense. And being someone who stands up is that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it is that saying like, well, even though in the
Speaker 2: short term is more dangerous for me to stand up,
Speaker 2: by having been participated in a society where we stand
Speaker 2: up for each other, I am safer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so even if that means like my literal death,
Speaker 2: like I will have been safer, even if you get
Speaker 2: like weirdly utilitarian about.
Speaker 1: It, yeah, and aggregate, you are safer. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: is everyone else.
Speaker 2: And so it's not a it's not a charity, it's
Speaker 2: a it's a solidarity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, like solidarity is in a sense it's in
Speaker 1: your own self interest, because we want to live in
Speaker 1: a world where people will take care of each other, right,
Speaker 1: not just better, you know, like yeah, just in case
Speaker 1: we need to be taken care of. Right, But because
Speaker 1: I often think about that, I think it's John Stuart
Speaker 1: mill Right asked not for him the bell tolls, The
Speaker 1: bell tolls for thee. Like what he's saying there is
Speaker 1: not what's that bell ringing. What he's saying is I
Speaker 1: participate in humanity, and so when humanity is devalued in
Speaker 1: his case talking about bell unary bell, right, when humanity
Speaker 1: is devalued, my humanity is devalued. Yeah, And therefore, in
Speaker 1: this case where the bell is ringing for me, I
Speaker 1: am a human and when they undermine our common humanity,
Speaker 1: therefore they undermine this thing that I have. And I
Speaker 1: won't let them do that because I participate in humanity,
Speaker 1: and so, as it happens, does a person who's been
Speaker 1: subjected to inhuman violence. And so I will stand up
Speaker 1: for humanity, and in doing so, I will stand up
Speaker 1: for making a humanity that will stand up for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And like I think about a lot because John McCain
Speaker 1: wrote it in an obituary for the last American Yeah,
Speaker 1: Lincoln Brigade volunteer. And I don't agree with John McCain
Speaker 1: on anything really, yeah, right, but I do on that
Speaker 1: and like I was thinking about that today when I
Speaker 1: saw what would Ronald Reagan do?
Speaker 2: Guy. Yeah, because Joan mckaye is the man who believe something.
Speaker 2: He believed things I don't agree with.
Speaker 1: Yah, a lot of racist shit. Yeah. John McCain clearly
Speaker 1: thought that the Lincoln Brigadios were on the right side
Speaker 1: of history, right, right, And like Winston Churchill's nephew fort
Speaker 1: in the International Brigades, right, folks with whom I share
Speaker 1: very little in terms of politics. A lot of British
Speaker 1: upper class people fought in the International Brigades. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: probably weren't anarchists, but they were anti fascists. They were
Speaker 1: better anti fascists than the people who stayed at home.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you couldn't tweet in nineteen thirty six, but
Speaker 1: they would have been if they could. Yeah, right, because
Speaker 1: they were willing to put their bodies on the line. Yea.
Speaker 1: And many of them died. Many of them are buried
Speaker 1: in Smain, and Spanish people remember them fondly. Right. They
Speaker 1: have annual ceremonies to remember the sacrifice they made before
Speaker 1: any of the people who are attending those ceremonies are alive.
Speaker 1: And if more people had said, yeah, I'll go right
Speaker 1: like the bells ringing for me. Yeah, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to stand for a world where this happens. I'm going
Speaker 1: to fight for one where it doesn't. Then we might
Speaker 1: not have had the Holocaust, right, we might not have
Speaker 1: had the Second World War. We might not have had Stalingrad.
Speaker 2: And also all the people who found Stalingrad are the
Speaker 2: reasons that didn't get worse. Yeah, yeah, right, World War
Speaker 2: two could have been worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it would
Speaker 2: have been worse if people hadn't fought.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, we had stanning Gred, so the Holocaust
Speaker 1: wasn't more so that Western Europe doesn't speak German. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: Like every single one of those people who stood up
Speaker 1: to stop that probably wished that they'd stood up earlier,
Speaker 1: And every single one of those people who stood up
Speaker 1: earlier probably wish that more people had joined them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think about that a lot. It's not news to
Speaker 1: anyone who listened to this that I wrote my PhD
Speaker 1: understand a civil Warrant, think about it every day. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: If you wanted the non dramatic version of all this,
Speaker 2: you're listening to the wrong too podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, But I think a lot about like
Speaker 1: what we should learn from that? Right. I translated a
Speaker 1: piece for a zene as Strangers in the Tangled.
Speaker 2: Will Oh Yeah, it's a publishing collective that I work with.
Speaker 1: And I translated a piece by a Belgian anarchist who's
Speaker 1: referred to as a constellation of acronyms. Right, but Charles
Speaker 1: Riddle was his birth name. Louis mill A Vega was
Speaker 1: his name he lived with for most of his life.
Speaker 1: And he wrote this piece called Refuting the Legend, where
Speaker 1: he talks about like what he feels that he owes
Speaker 1: the people who died, right, And I think about that lot,
Speaker 1: Like the thing that he comes up with is that
Speaker 1: he owes the people who died the truth so that
Speaker 1: we can learn from it and do better. And he
Speaker 1: shouldn't just make them into heroes. He should make them
Speaker 1: into real people with flaws, so that people can understand
Speaker 1: their flaws and they can know what we can do better.
Speaker 1: And I think about that a lot. Right, so many
Speaker 1: people have gone before us, so many brave people have
Speaker 1: gone before us, and we owe it to them to learn, right,
Speaker 1: and I think we have. Like when I was thinking
Speaker 1: about this, when that older lady said to us, all,
Speaker 1: my father was in the Second World War, Like, and
Speaker 1: I think about it again when I saw the poem today,
Speaker 1: like we have to learn from that experience, right, and
Speaker 1: you'd have to stop it now, not when it comes
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the fact that we talked to multiple people, some
Speaker 2: of their families had survived the Holocaust.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the reason they were in America in many cases
Speaker 1: say grandparents have come here to feed the.
Speaker 2: Who are making comparisons to that? And you're like, they're
Speaker 2: they're not doing that lightly. And I feel like almost,
Speaker 2: you know, when we talk with the sort of grandiose things,
Speaker 2: I'm like I almost feel like I'm like, oh, we're
Speaker 2: talking about people with whistles. We're like, yeah, but we're not.
Speaker 2: I mean we are. We're talking about people with whistles.
Speaker 1: Let's hope it stops a whistles.
Speaker 2: Right, And that is what is effective right now? And
Speaker 2: it like is you know, it's spreading something and it
Speaker 2: it's going to be so interesting to see what comes
Speaker 2: of this. Everything will be changing, you know, there's no
Speaker 2: reason to specifically set up everything that you all do
Speaker 2: in whatever city or town you live in exactly the
Speaker 2: same as they do it here, but there's like so
Speaker 2: many things to learn from them, and more than anything else,
Speaker 2: the thing to learn from them is like you just
Speaker 2: show up. Yeah, it's not that every single person in
Speaker 2: the city has quit their job to do this full time, right,
Speaker 2: Obviously economies don't function like that. But you don't have
Speaker 2: to quit your job to walk outside your house when
Speaker 2: you hear someone yell help, which is what is happening
Speaker 2: with whistles and honking, right, and just spreading a culture
Speaker 2: of we take care of each other and neighborliness, right,
Speaker 2: And that is like, weirdly, fundamentally it is an American
Speaker 2: cultural idea. We're just bad at it. We've kind of
Speaker 2: forgotten a lot of it. Yeah, you know, it's like
Speaker 2: because obviously isolation is a big part of American individualism
Speaker 2: is a big part of it. But like everyone's a
Speaker 2: little bit happy when they get to like, oh, you
Speaker 2: need a you need a lawnmower, or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I get to fix my neighbor's truck, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, get out and give some moment
Speaker 1: a change.
Speaker 2: So and one of the things that we to to
Speaker 2: maybe kind of end on, and the thing that I
Speaker 2: want to end on, you know, we're asking people like
Speaker 2: what they wish other people knew, what other people could know.
Speaker 2: And there's a couple of things that people mentioned, and
Speaker 2: we'll write more about this and pup podcasts more about this.
Speaker 2: But one of the things that people mentioned is they
Speaker 2: wish they had started earlier about knowing their neighbors. Obviously
Speaker 2: it wasn't too late. It's the whole like like with
Speaker 2: any kind of preparedness, right, You're like, you wish you
Speaker 2: so heady, Yeah, but you know now is the best
Speaker 2: you know, yesterday is the best time, and today is
Speaker 2: the next best time. Yeah, right, And like just literally
Speaker 2: knowing them, not necessarily becoming their friends, Like a lot
Speaker 2: of people are like, no, I wasn't friends with them.
Speaker 2: I just sort of knew them, you know. And then
Speaker 2: also one of the other things that people just as
Speaker 2: another thing people mentioned that they wanted people to know
Speaker 2: is that when you build these networks, you need to
Speaker 2: build autonomy into them at every level. You need to
Speaker 2: build the idea that the person who is following Ice
Speaker 2: is at the end of the day in charge of
Speaker 2: how they do that. Yeah, Like even if you know,
Speaker 2: you know, people are like, oh Ice is over here,
Speaker 2: you can't say, everyone, go do this. You can someone
Speaker 2: can suggest that, yeah, right, But having built autonomy into
Speaker 2: these nets works makes them so much stronger, and in
Speaker 2: an interesting way, partly because it makes them less predictable
Speaker 2: to ice.
Speaker 1: Right, because you never know what someone's going to, what
Speaker 1: they're comfortable when they're not comfortable.
Speaker 2: With Yeah, So like that is basically a diversity of
Speaker 2: tactics makes movements strong. If they don't know how we
Speaker 2: are going to behave they can't you know, and not
Speaker 2: just like if everyone's rowdy, no, like, are going to
Speaker 2: be real combination and when the rowdy and non rowdy
Speaker 2: support people support each other. Anyway, those are the kind
Speaker 2: of last thoughts I have before I actually sit down
Speaker 2: and look at all my notes and write something real.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me, it's everyone here said that
Speaker 1: like that. It was funny when people were like, we
Speaker 1: were like, how do you start organizing? They were like,
Speaker 1: you know, last July we had a blog party and
Speaker 1: a potluck. Yeah, and it just seemed to be just
Speaker 1: a thing until it became the foundation of thing that
Speaker 1: exists now. Right. Yeah, if there's one thing you can do,
Speaker 1: it won't cost you any money. It will take you
Speaker 1: a little bit of time and it will probably make
Speaker 1: your life better. It is go out on your block
Speaker 1: and meet your neighbors. And I know that can be
Speaker 1: hard for people. Yeah, I know it can be scary.
Speaker 2: But we're talking like trans motherfuckers who are doing this too.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's people who who have more
Speaker 1: at stake than I do. Yeah, right, Like I'm the
Speaker 1: cisgender white man. For people listening, the best thing you
Speaker 1: can do is start to form community, and it could
Speaker 1: be in so many ways. One thing that I really
Speaker 1: like to do is like I have, throughout my life
Speaker 1: developed certain skills and certain hobbies, and I love to
Speaker 1: share those with people. You know, if there is someone
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood they've got a bike outside, they're trying
Speaker 1: to fix a puncha, I'm going to go help them
Speaker 1: because I've done that ten thousand times.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right. Whatever it is that is your thing that you
Speaker 1: like to talk about, that you're good at, that you
Speaker 1: know about, think of a way you could share that
Speaker 1: with people. Maybe you like to bake, maybe you like
Speaker 1: to knit, maybe whatever, it doesn't matter, It doesn't.
Speaker 2: Oh, there's people with like free hats and scarves at
Speaker 2: these things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could just be the person who
Speaker 1: knits the scarves. That's your way to contribute. If that's
Speaker 1: your way to meet your neighbors, right, put on a
Speaker 1: knitting circle, to put on a baking thing. I like
Speaker 1: to grow plants, so I'm always growing plants, and I'm
Speaker 1: stoked when my neighbors stop buy and say, hey, I
Speaker 1: really like your basil plant and I want to make
Speaker 1: which is how they pronounce it when they yes, they
Speaker 1: do yeah when they say to me, because otherwise I
Speaker 1: look at them and say, get out of my home,
Speaker 1: you know. And if they want to make something, I
Speaker 1: give them some, right, or if they say, hey, I
Speaker 1: just need a couple of tomatoes, and I noticed, of
Speaker 1: course I'm going to give them right. Whatever that is,
Speaker 1: your neighbors away for a couple of weeks. Hey, do
Speaker 1: you want me to look after the house? Your car
Speaker 1: won't start? Let me jump it, right. I have one
Speaker 1: of those little jumper packs. I love to use a
Speaker 1: little jumper pack.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you have a tool and someone needs
Speaker 2: to the tool, having a multi tool on you is
Speaker 2: the best way to feel good all the time because
Speaker 2: someone's like, oh I wish I had a rent, or
Speaker 2: I wish yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there you go like Superman. Yeah, do those
Speaker 1: things now. I know we have Margaret and I both
Speaker 1: hop on about this, but like, this is how you
Speaker 1: build a better world. It starts on your block. It
Speaker 1: starts by building a better neighborhood, building a better street,
Speaker 1: building a better apartment complex. Live in an apartment complex.
Speaker 1: It could be hard to see people in apartment complexes
Speaker 1: because people sort of get in the lift and put
Speaker 1: the look at the floor. But a little sign up
Speaker 1: just be like, hey, we're going to have a pot. Look, Hey,
Speaker 1: the little bit in between the pavement and the road's
Speaker 1: kind of fucked up. Anyone else want to help me
Speaker 1: put some plants in it this springtime? You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whatever it is that is your thing, start using that
Speaker 1: to build community, because it's community that's going to get
Speaker 1: you through this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's like, you know, I don't always like
Speaker 2: targeting people, but I just when I'm in a new place,
Speaker 2: I'm just like, hey, I just moved here. Nice to
Speaker 2: meet you. I'm so and so. Do you need my
Speaker 2: phone number? And I can do the kind of like,
Speaker 2: you know, I want you to have my phone number
Speaker 2: because I want to call me instead of the cops.
Speaker 2: I'm being too loud, right, But like you're going to
Speaker 2: make a little bit of a faux pas in certain
Speaker 2: communities by being like, hey, we should know each other. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but usually just to hey we should know each other
Speaker 2: isn't actually offending as many people as you think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I know a lot of people don't live
Speaker 1: in cities too, or some people were like I grew
Speaker 1: up very very rural. Yeah, but actually like we had
Speaker 1: to know each other because like there wasn't really anyone
Speaker 1: else you could go, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: In my mind, I'm like when I live rural, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's how you have to know people.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like I remember someone's horse fell in. Wealthy
Speaker 1: people had a swimming pool, Like yeah, I lifted the
Speaker 1: horse out by myself.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my neighbors pick out the pools walking out
Speaker 2: of my property. Yeah, it's not as big of a
Speaker 2: deal as lowers falling in, but just constantly my neighbors
Speaker 2: like my pig got out again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like like we there there are a million reasons
Speaker 1: why in rural areas, or I'd hope you were you
Speaker 1: would know people anyway. But again, like hey I'm so
Speaker 1: and so I just moved here. I just wanted to say, Hi,
Speaker 1: maybe you bake something whatever, take something go, but most
Speaker 1: people aren't going to be mad at you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well that's kind of our preliminary stuff and we're going
Speaker 2: to be doing so much more with it, but we
Speaker 2: just kind of wanted to get some ideas out while
Speaker 2: we were both in the same place in this shockingly
Speaker 2: beautiful city. Yeah, around people who are so fucking inspiring, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: everyone we talked to is so inspiring. And even if
Speaker 2: the like the tragedy of it, you know, I feel
Speaker 2: so weird being like, here's the hopeful stuff. When I'm
Speaker 2: like we're describing it very horrible land of kidnappers, We're like,
Speaker 2: it's just like literally kidnappers have descended upon the city
Speaker 2: and like to kidnap people.
Speaker 1: That will fund the kidnappings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for cool people to cool stuff. That's the core
Speaker 2: idea of the show is that when people, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the intro, it's when people are trying to do
Speaker 2: bad things, there's people trying to do good things. And
Speaker 2: so that's why, uh, it's taking a break from history
Speaker 2: content talk about something that's just fucking happening right now.
Speaker 2: It is cool people doing cool stuff up here and
Speaker 2: or maybe more than cool because it's freezing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, freezing people doing cool stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, feel free to workshop at home, Yeah, a better
Speaker 2: way to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm coming back from a
Speaker 1: place more hopeful than I left. I know, that's my
Speaker 1: my thing that I do. But like, I really believe
Speaker 1: that in the darkest times we can build beautiful things.
Speaker 1: And I don't believe that any less after being here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great thing about being a Goth. I'm beauty
Speaker 2: and the dark stuff. That's like. Anyway, we will talk
Speaker 2: to you all just for me next week and for
Speaker 2: James who knows, probably freaking tomorrow. Yeah, a couple of
Speaker 2: days here, yeah yeah, yeah, that my job was hard anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 2: good luck with everyone, and take care of your neighbors
Speaker 2: and fuck ice.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Thanks everyone for listening to all of this. And if
Speaker 2: at the end of this you are thinking that you
Speaker 2: would like to help some of the people who are
Speaker 2: on the ground, we ask people that we trusted on
Speaker 2: the ground to provide us with links to different fundraisers
Speaker 2: And basically I never share a fundraiser unless I can
Speaker 2: support it with my whole heart, and I would support
Speaker 2: it with my own wallet. The links themselves are going
Speaker 2: to be in the show notes, but there's a couple
Speaker 2: different ones. There's rent support for Neighbors and Phillips, which
Speaker 2: is a neighborhood rent support for neighbors in Central Rent
Speaker 2: support for Neighbors and Powderhorn Supplies for political art making,
Speaker 2: Protective gear for legal observers, diapers and menstrual supplies is
Speaker 2: another fundraiser. Abolish ice shirts including the shirt I am
Speaker 2: wearing right now as I record this, North Star, Frontline
Speaker 2: Street Medics and the Twin Cities swol A Tariot Aile
Speaker 2: Fund and they'll be links to both Venmo and cash
Speaker 2: app for that one. Anyway, Thank you to everyone and
Speaker 2: take care of each other.
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 2: foolzonmedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.