WEBVTT - Can a Smaller HUD Fix the Housing Crisis?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're gonna do something a little different today. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>here with my co host Sarah Holder. Hey, Sarah, Hi, David.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah doesn't just host the Big Take, She's also someone

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<v Speaker 2>who covers housing for Bloomberg and Sarah, you have written

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<v Speaker 2>a new story for Bloomberg Business Week.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes. Back in July, I took a trip down to Washington,

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<v Speaker 3>d C. To meet Scott Turner, who's the new Secretary

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<v Speaker 3>of the Department of Housing and Urban Development. I met

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<v Speaker 3>him in the agency's nearly sixty year old headquarters, and

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<v Speaker 3>one of the first things he showed me was this

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<v Speaker 3>big white cinder block that was on his office floor.

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<v Speaker 1>That brick right there, y'all see that break That break

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<v Speaker 1>fail right here where my closet is, and hit two

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<v Speaker 1>feet above.

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<v Speaker 3>My head while you were in the office.

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<v Speaker 1>Literally when I was walking out of my office to

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<v Speaker 1>brick fail.

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<v Speaker 2>This is one of the hazards I guess of working

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<v Speaker 2>for HUD.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Turner has a lot of problems with this building.

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<v Speaker 3>It's got dim lighting, elevators that are often out of service,

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<v Speaker 3>bad air quality. Hudstaffers too have complained about this building

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<v Speaker 3>for years. When I visited a sign over one of

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<v Speaker 3>the entrances said welcome to HUD, and it was missing

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<v Speaker 3>the M.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that is not a good look for the agency

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<v Speaker 2>that's responsible for enforcing housing standards in the US, is it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's what Turner has been arguing. But rather than

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<v Speaker 3>try to fix HUD's existing building, Turner has announced plans

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<v Speaker 3>to move out of the city entirely and into a

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<v Speaker 3>fancier office building in the suburbs of Alexandria, Virginia. It's

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<v Speaker 3>one that's currently occupied by the National Science Foundation, which

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<v Speaker 3>is facing drastic cuts from the Trump administration, and the

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<v Speaker 3>move is still a little bit in flux, but Turner

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<v Speaker 3>sees it as a symbolic win. He wants the new

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<v Speaker 3>building to help usher in a new golden age. As

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<v Speaker 3>he puts it, for the agency.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a culture shift, it's a paradigm shift. And so

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<v Speaker 1>that's what we mean, going from the old to the new,

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<v Speaker 1>gone from mediocre to excellence.

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<v Speaker 3>And David now would be a great time for HUD

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<v Speaker 3>to be excellent because the country is in the midst

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<v Speaker 3>of a historic housing crisis. The US has sky high

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<v Speaker 3>housing costs, record homelessness levels, and a nationwide shortage of

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<v Speaker 3>affordable housing, and HUD has an important role to play

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<v Speaker 3>in solving all that.

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<v Speaker 4>It's most pronounced program is housing Vouchers, which is the

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<v Speaker 4>direct support that HUD pays on behalf of tenants to

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<v Speaker 4>landlords for low income people for millions of households across

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<v Speaker 4>the country.

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<v Speaker 3>This is Bloomberg City Lab reporter Kristen Kapps, who wrote

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<v Speaker 3>and reported the story with me and who's an expert

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<v Speaker 3>on all things HUD.

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<v Speaker 4>It provides the support the financing for the many affordable

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<v Speaker 4>housing developers and the many nonprofits that build affordable housing

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<v Speaker 4>that provide services for homeless people across America. HUT does

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<v Speaker 4>a lot more things than that.

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<v Speaker 3>HUDD also enforces anti discrimination laws and provides mortgage insurance

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<v Speaker 3>for first time home buyers.

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<v Speaker 2>Bly HUT is in charge of making sure Americans have

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<v Speaker 2>a safe, affordable place to live.

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<v Speaker 3>Right but Turner is facing down this housing crisis with

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<v Speaker 3>a HUD that's nearly thirty percent smaller than it was

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<v Speaker 3>before Donald Trump took office, and with a budget that

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<v Speaker 3>the President had proposed cutting by more than forty percent.

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<v Speaker 3>Turner had supported those proposed budget HUTS, and he's also

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<v Speaker 3>pushing other policies that could shrink HUD's programs.

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<v Speaker 1>The budget doesn't have anything to do with the mission.

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<v Speaker 1>The mission remains the same.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm David Gera and I'm Sarah Holder. This is the

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<v Speaker 3>big take from Bloomberg News Today.

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<v Speaker 2>On the show, HUD's Secretary Scott Turner's mission to kick

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<v Speaker 2>off an affordable housing building spree, while he supports policies

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<v Speaker 2>that could kick millions of renters off of government housing aid.

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<v Speaker 2>What Turner's plan could mean for the US housing crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>Like many HUD secretaries before him, Scott Turner didn't come

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<v Speaker 2>into the role with much experience in housing policy, but

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<v Speaker 2>he told my co host Sarah Holder that hutt's mission

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<v Speaker 2>of serving low income communities is personal to him.

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<v Speaker 1>I've always had a heart for the hurting and a

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<v Speaker 1>heart for those who were downtrodden.

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<v Speaker 3>Secretary Turner grew up in the suburbs of Dallas in

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<v Speaker 3>a family that didn't have much money.

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<v Speaker 1>I understand struggle all too well.

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<v Speaker 3>His parents divorced when he was ten years old. He

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<v Speaker 3>talks about this a lot as sort of a pivotal

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<v Speaker 3>moment in his childhood.

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<v Speaker 1>Growing up in the home where your parents are not

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<v Speaker 1>always at peace. When there's confusion and chaos and arguments

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<v Speaker 1>and at times violence, it makes it very hard for

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<v Speaker 1>a child. And so the early years of my life,

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<v Speaker 1>that was what my home was like.

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<v Speaker 3>His parents weren't on any federal housing assistance, but other

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<v Speaker 3>members of his family were. His wife, Robin, was on

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<v Speaker 3>Section eight growing up.

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<v Speaker 2>Turner ended up getting a full ride to play football

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<v Speaker 2>in college and played nine seasons as a cornerback in

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<v Speaker 2>the National Football League. After he retired from the NFL,

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<v Speaker 2>he dabbled in politics, starting in twenty twelve. He served

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<v Speaker 2>two terms in the Texas House of Representatives, and Bloomberg's

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<v Speaker 2>Kristen Capps, who worked on this story with Sarah says

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<v Speaker 2>housing didn't appear to be high on the list of

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<v Speaker 2>Turner's political priorities back then.

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<v Speaker 4>He doesn't have a strong record of passing any kind

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<v Speaker 4>of housing bills.

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<v Speaker 2>But in twenty eighteen, Turner landed a job in the

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<v Speaker 2>first Trump administration.

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<v Speaker 3>He becomes the head of the White House's Council on

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<v Speaker 3>Opportunity Zones under the first Trump administration, and so the

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<v Speaker 3>Opportunity Zone program was basically a tax break for developers

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<v Speaker 3>to develop in distressed neighborhoods in the country, and so

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<v Speaker 3>Scott Turner used his experience in politics as experience in

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<v Speaker 3>public speaking to kind of helm that council, where he

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<v Speaker 3>traveled around the country basically preaching the gospel of opportunity zones,

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<v Speaker 3>talking to low income communities across the country about what

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<v Speaker 3>this sort of tax break for developers program could do

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<v Speaker 3>for them. So that's kind of the first time that

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<v Speaker 3>we see him intersect with the Trump administration.

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<v Speaker 2>The Opportunity Zone program ended up being a controversial one.

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<v Speaker 2>It attracted more than one hundred billion dollars in investment,

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<v Speaker 2>far more than anticipated, but research suggests the program poured

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<v Speaker 2>money into areas already primed for development, and jobs mostly

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<v Speaker 2>went to outside workers. Under President Biden, opportunity zones went

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<v Speaker 2>on the back burner and Turner went back to Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>He became an associate pastor for a Dallas area Baptist

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<v Speaker 2>megachurch and chief visionary officer for a multi family real

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<v Speaker 2>estate developer. Then, when Trump was reelected, he tapped Turner

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<v Speaker 2>to run HUD.

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<v Speaker 5>It's a pleasure to be here today to introduce my

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<v Speaker 5>friend and fellow Texan Scott Turner to be the next

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<v Speaker 5>Secretary of the US Housing Department of Housing and Urban Development,

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>What are his ideas and vision for HUD, What does

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<v Speaker 2>he want to see it turn into under his leadership.

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<v Speaker 3>So one of the big things that housing advocates sort

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<v Speaker 3>of noticed about Scott Turner in his confirmation hearing was

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<v Speaker 3>he really emphasizes the importance of building affordable housing.

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<v Speaker 6>We have a housing crisis in our country. We have

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<v Speaker 6>the American people and families that are struggling every day.

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<v Speaker 3>Which is something a lot of people across the space

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<v Speaker 3>agree on as one of the ways to get America

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<v Speaker 3>out of this housing crisis. We have a housing shortage

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<v Speaker 3>of four point seven million homes, as much as seven

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<v Speaker 3>million affordable ones.

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<v Speaker 6>We need millions of homes, all kinds of home, multifamily,

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<v Speaker 6>single family, duplex, condo, manufacturing, housing, you name it.

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<v Speaker 3>But he's also someone who really distrusts the social safety net,

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<v Speaker 3>And as we mentioned earlier, part of Hudd's main role

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<v Speaker 3>in this country is propping up the social safety net

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<v Speaker 3>with vouchers that they disperse to nine million tenants across

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<v Speaker 3>the country and their landlord. So he's really focused on

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<v Speaker 3>supply and he's really really distrustful of the voucher program.

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<v Speaker 2>In his confirmation hearing, Turner talked about slashing red tape

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<v Speaker 2>and said it's time for the federal government and for

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<v Speaker 2>the Housing Agency to do more with less. Here's a

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<v Speaker 2>telling exchange between Turner and Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren.

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<v Speaker 7>Do you support additional federal investment in programs so that

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<v Speaker 7>we can lower the cost of building affordable housing?

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Sanda Wall. What I do support is maximize

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<v Speaker 1>in the budget that we do have and making sure

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<v Speaker 1>that the money.

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<v Speaker 7>So he said, a no to additional investments.

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<v Speaker 1>Is a yes to maximize in the investment that we have.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, how the Trump administration is shrinking HUD

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<v Speaker 2>and what it means for affordable housing, fair housing protections,

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<v Speaker 2>and homelessness in the US, HUDD started the year with

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<v Speaker 2>over eight thousand staffers, but after a few rounds of

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<v Speaker 2>buyouts led by the Department of Government Efficiency, Bloomberg's Kristen

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<v Speaker 2>Kapp says around twenty three hundred of those staffers left,

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<v Speaker 2>and HUD is now thirty percent smaller.

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<v Speaker 4>There was already within the administration during the election conversations

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<v Speaker 4>about cutting back programs. That's certainly been a talking point

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<v Speaker 4>for Republican administrations before Donald Trump in his first term.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think that HUD expected to see things like

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<v Speaker 4>cuts to voucher programs.

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<v Speaker 2>But Kristin says what they didn't expect was to lose

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<v Speaker 2>so many staff. Turner made it clear to Sarah in

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<v Speaker 2>their interview that he didn't fire all these people.

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<v Speaker 3>When I asked Turner about those numbers, he was very

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<v Speaker 3>very clear that these were people who wanted to leave voluntarily.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll know you all, Bloomberg, You and other media outlets

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<v Speaker 1>have reported about these dark, deep cuts going on at HUT.

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<v Speaker 1>None of that is true. Tell me, we had twenty

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<v Speaker 1>three hundred people who opted to take a different path,

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<v Speaker 1>but we haven't had deep cuts.

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<v Speaker 2>However you describe these departures, Kristen says, they're already taking

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<v Speaker 2>their toll on several of HUD's key offices.

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<v Speaker 4>The office that distributes billions of dollars in community level

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<v Speaker 4>block grants has shed forty percent of its staff. The

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<v Speaker 4>office that oversees the housing vouchers have shed something like

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<v Speaker 4>thirty percent of staff. The Federal Housing Administration, which is

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<v Speaker 4>this agency that backs mortgage insurance for you know, many

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<v Speaker 4>first time home buyers across the country, and this is

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<v Speaker 4>a program that generates billions of dollars for the Treasury,

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<v Speaker 4>and that office has lost something like twenty five percent

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<v Speaker 4>of its staff.

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<v Speaker 2>Turner has said that HUD has enough staff to fulfill

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<v Speaker 2>its mission critical functions, and in a statement, HUD declined

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<v Speaker 2>to comment on specific staffing changes, but current and former staffers,

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<v Speaker 2>along with affordable housing advocates, told Sarah and Kristen that

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<v Speaker 2>the changes at HUD have hurt its ability to carry

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<v Speaker 2>out one of its most important mandates, preventing housing discrimination.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the duties for HUD from when it was

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<v Speaker 4>very first established was to enforce fair housing. To enforce

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<v Speaker 4>the provisions of the Fair Housing Act of nineteen sixty eight.

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<v Speaker 4>You know that meant that a person you know could

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<v Speaker 4>not be refused a home, could not be refused to rent,

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<v Speaker 4>could not be refused the opportunity to buy based on

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<v Speaker 4>their race, based on their religion. HUD has always been

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<v Speaker 4>on the forefront of enforcing these laws.

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<v Speaker 2>According to a HUDD union leader, the number of attorneys

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<v Speaker 2>who now work on fair housing cases at the agency

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<v Speaker 2>is down from around twenty to single digits.

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<v Speaker 3>When I asked Gott Turner about the level of fair

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<v Speaker 3>housing enforcement that's going on country right now. He said

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<v Speaker 3>the law will be followed, discrimination will be rooted out.

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<v Speaker 2>But HUT staffers say the agency is closing major discrimination

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<v Speaker 2>lawsuits and reopening cases where it already secured settlements. HUD

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<v Speaker 2>declined to comment on this. One advocate told Sarah that

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<v Speaker 2>HUDD has stopped pursuing cases involving allegations of discrimination on

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<v Speaker 2>the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. A HUD

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<v Speaker 2>spokesperson said the agency can't comment on the status of

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<v Speaker 2>specific cases that have not been made public, and said

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<v Speaker 2>that they were upholding the president's executive order. That order

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<v Speaker 2>recognizes only two sexes and refutes the existence of trans people.

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<v Speaker 2>Turner has cut some of the red tape he promised.

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<v Speaker 2>He's pushed lawmakers to remove a federal regulation on manufactured

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<v Speaker 2>housing that could help unlock more factory build homes, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's also pulled back a range of information gathering requirements

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<v Speaker 2>for mortgage lenders in an effort to cut housing costs.

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<v Speaker 2>But Turner has advocated for funding changes that critics say

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<v Speaker 2>threatened to undermine the agency's core mission.

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 3>Trump's proposed budget calls for cutting HUD's overall budget by

0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.560
<v Speaker 3>more than forty percent. It also calls for consolidating the

0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.840
<v Speaker 3>voucher program we've talked about and moving it to the

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:18.199
<v Speaker 3>states and cutting its funding significantly as well. It also

0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.520
<v Speaker 3>proposed two year time limits on vouchers, which would mean

0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 3>that folks who have maybe lived in public housing for

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.959
<v Speaker 3>six years even while working and can't afford a market

0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.480
<v Speaker 3>rent would be picked out of the program.

0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.440
<v Speaker 2>N YU researchers estimate that nearly one point four million

0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:39.320
<v Speaker 2>households could be impacted by such time limits. But Turner

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.000
<v Speaker 2>has defended the cuts President Trump has proposed.

0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.000
<v Speaker 3>He's really re emphasized the idea of being efficient and effective,

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 3>and he said that, you know, we have record numbers

0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 3>of people experiencing homelessness, sleeping on the streets, and HUD's

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.200
<v Speaker 3>budget is more than seventy billion dollars, and so his

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.080
<v Speaker 3>logic is that we're spent so much money and not

0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.320
<v Speaker 3>seeing results, like we should stop spending money. And members

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.280
<v Speaker 3>of Congress have said they don't understand that logic, that

0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 3>if the problem is so grave and so deep, part

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 3>of the issue is that HUD has been underfunded for

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 3>decades and they want to see more targeted investments and

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 3>they don't want to see millions of tenants being evicted

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.560
<v Speaker 3>overnight from their residences because they say that that is

0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 3>really the thing that could increase homelessness in this country.

0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Lawmakers have since proposed their own more generous spending plans

0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:32.760
<v Speaker 2>for HUD.

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 3>So the House and the Senate have submitted their own

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.200
<v Speaker 3>budgets which restore a lot of that voucher funding, which

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 3>restore a lot of that affordable housing production funding.

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Congress has until September thirtieth to pass a final budget,

0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.280
<v Speaker 2>a budget that housing advocates hope won't look much like

0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 2>the one the President has proposed, but Sarah says that

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean the voucher program is safe. Putting time limits

0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 2>on vouchers is still on Turner's priority list, and he's

0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 2>also signaled he wants to add more work requirements to

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 2>rental aid.

0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Social safety and nets were never meant to be a hammock,

0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 1>but instead they should be a trampoline. They were never

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>meant to be a resting place, but instead a place

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 1>to where you can get on your feet and then

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>to be projected out to live a life of self sustainability.

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.280
<v Speaker 3>And so the concern is even without cutting the budget

0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 3>by forty percent, you could still sort of reduce the

0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.640
<v Speaker 3>size and the importance and the significance of the voucher

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 3>program through these other sort of legislative changes.

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Instead, Turner wants HUD to focus on getting as many

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.520
<v Speaker 2>new homes built as possible.

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:35.400
<v Speaker 3>Do you have a number.

0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a number. The number that really sticks

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 1>out of my head every day is seven million, because

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 1>that's the need that we have. But I believe by

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 1>taking down these burdens and regulations, by building public private partnerships,

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 1>by being very active with our state and local partners,

0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 1>that we can and the President obviously is very in

0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 1>tune to this and has made it a priority that

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 1>we can build many housand units, neighborhoods and projects in

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 1>the years that we have here. But one day at

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 1>a time.

0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>The problem is building anywhere close to seven million homes

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 2>will take a while.

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.760
<v Speaker 3>There are millions of Americans who need help from HUD

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.720
<v Speaker 3>to pay the rent today, thousands of landlords who rely

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.000
<v Speaker 3>on rental aid to make their mortgages today, and a

0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 3>whole network of affordable developers who use HUD money to

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.240
<v Speaker 3>break ground on new projects today.

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Sarah, I want to wrap up by returning to something

0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.520
<v Speaker 2>you said, which is Scott Turner, the secretary of HUD,

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 2>is somebody who acknowledges the housing crisis, believes fervently in

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 2>the need to build more housing, and at the same

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 2>time he's very skeptical of a lot of the social

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.200
<v Speaker 2>safety net programs. How hard is it for him to

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 2>hold both of those things at once, hold both of

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 2>those beliefs at once.

0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 3>A lot of the people I've spoken to have told

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 3>me it's really hard to do both of those things

0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 3>at once, because in its current at least, the affordable

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.960
<v Speaker 3>housing ecosystem in the United States really depends on money

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 3>from HUT. It depends on the voucher program. It depends

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 3>on the work of people who are ensuring that folks

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.439
<v Speaker 3>who can't afford to move when they're being discriminated against,

0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 3>have protections. So if cuts to the voucher program go through,

0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 3>even in the future, if HUD is no longer able

0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 3>to defend tenants' rights in the same way, there could be,

0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.680
<v Speaker 3>sources say, even more homelessness, because what happens to folks

0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 3>who are evicted from their public housing after two years

0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.440
<v Speaker 3>if time limits are to go into effect, what happens

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.159
<v Speaker 3>to people who can't work who are caregivers for their family.

0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.440
<v Speaker 3>If work requirements were to go into effect, the market

0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 3>rents right now are not affordable for broad swaths of

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.760
<v Speaker 3>this country, and many affordable developers can't afford to build

0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.719
<v Speaker 3>affordable housing at a profit without those subsidies from HUT.

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:55.320
<v Speaker 3>So if they cut these fundamental programs that HUD has

0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 3>provided for decades, Turner could make it a lot harder

0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.119
<v Speaker 3>to address some of the underlying causes of the housing

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.320
<v Speaker 3>crisis that he says he cares about so deeply.

0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.160
<v Speaker 2>This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. To get

0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.520
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0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.920
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<v Speaker 2>to podcasts. It helps people find the show. Thanks for listening.

0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back tomorrow.