1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 2: So we're gonna do something a little different today. I'm 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: here with my co host Sarah Holder. Hey, Sarah, Hi, David. 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 2: Sarah doesn't just host the Big Take, She's also someone 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 2: who covers housing for Bloomberg and Sarah, you have written 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 2: a new story for Bloomberg Business Week. 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 3: Yes. Back in July, I took a trip down to Washington, 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 3: d C. To meet Scott Turner, who's the new Secretary 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: of the Department of Housing and Urban Development. I met 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 3: him in the agency's nearly sixty year old headquarters, and 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 3: one of the first things he showed me was this 12 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 3: big white cinder block that was on his office floor. 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: That brick right there, y'all see that break That break 14 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: fail right here where my closet is, and hit two 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: feet above. 16 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 3: My head while you were in the office. 17 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: Literally when I was walking out of my office to 18 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: brick fail. 19 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: This is one of the hazards I guess of working 20 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: for HUD. 21 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Turner has a lot of problems with this building. 22 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 3: It's got dim lighting, elevators that are often out of service, 23 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,919 Speaker 3: bad air quality. Hudstaffers too have complained about this building 24 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 3: for years. When I visited a sign over one of 25 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 3: the entrances said welcome to HUD, and it was missing 26 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:12,279 Speaker 3: the M. 27 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: Well, that is not a good look for the agency 28 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: that's responsible for enforcing housing standards in the US, is it. 29 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 3: Well, that's what Turner has been arguing. But rather than 30 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,639 Speaker 3: try to fix HUD's existing building, Turner has announced plans 31 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 3: to move out of the city entirely and into a 32 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: fancier office building in the suburbs of Alexandria, Virginia. It's 33 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 3: one that's currently occupied by the National Science Foundation, which 34 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: is facing drastic cuts from the Trump administration, and the 35 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 3: move is still a little bit in flux, but Turner 36 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 3: sees it as a symbolic win. He wants the new 37 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 3: building to help usher in a new golden age. As 38 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: he puts it, for the agency. 39 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: It's a culture shift, it's a paradigm shift. And so 40 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: that's what we mean, going from the old to the new, 41 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: gone from mediocre to excellence. 42 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 3: And David now would be a great time for HUD 43 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: to be excellent because the country is in the midst 44 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 3: of a historic housing crisis. The US has sky high 45 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 3: housing costs, record homelessness levels, and a nationwide shortage of 46 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 3: affordable housing, and HUD has an important role to play 47 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 3: in solving all that. 48 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 4: It's most pronounced program is housing Vouchers, which is the 49 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 4: direct support that HUD pays on behalf of tenants to 50 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 4: landlords for low income people for millions of households across 51 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 4: the country. 52 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg City Lab reporter Kristen Kapps, who wrote 53 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 3: and reported the story with me and who's an expert 54 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: on all things HUD. 55 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 4: It provides the support the financing for the many affordable 56 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 4: housing developers and the many nonprofits that build affordable housing 57 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 4: that provide services for homeless people across America. HUT does 58 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 4: a lot more things than that. 59 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: HUDD also enforces anti discrimination laws and provides mortgage insurance 60 00:02:58,240 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: for first time home buyers. 61 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: Bly HUT is in charge of making sure Americans have 62 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 2: a safe, affordable place to live. 63 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: Right but Turner is facing down this housing crisis with 64 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 3: a HUD that's nearly thirty percent smaller than it was 65 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 3: before Donald Trump took office, and with a budget that 66 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 3: the President had proposed cutting by more than forty percent. 67 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: Turner had supported those proposed budget HUTS, and he's also 68 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: pushing other policies that could shrink HUD's programs. 69 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: The budget doesn't have anything to do with the mission. 70 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: The mission remains the same. 71 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 3: I'm David Gera and I'm Sarah Holder. This is the 72 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: big take from Bloomberg News Today. 73 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: On the show, HUD's Secretary Scott Turner's mission to kick 74 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: off an affordable housing building spree, while he supports policies 75 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: that could kick millions of renters off of government housing aid. 76 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: What Turner's plan could mean for the US housing crisis. 77 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: Like many HUD secretaries before him, Scott Turner didn't come 78 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: into the role with much experience in housing policy, but 79 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: he told my co host Sarah Holder that hutt's mission 80 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: of serving low income communities is personal to him. 81 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: I've always had a heart for the hurting and a 82 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: heart for those who were downtrodden. 83 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 3: Secretary Turner grew up in the suburbs of Dallas in 84 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 3: a family that didn't have much money. 85 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: I understand struggle all too well. 86 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 3: His parents divorced when he was ten years old. He 87 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 3: talks about this a lot as sort of a pivotal 88 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 3: moment in his childhood. 89 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: Growing up in the home where your parents are not 90 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: always at peace. When there's confusion and chaos and arguments 91 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: and at times violence, it makes it very hard for 92 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: a child. And so the early years of my life, 93 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: that was what my home was like. 94 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: His parents weren't on any federal housing assistance, but other 95 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 3: members of his family were. His wife, Robin, was on 96 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: Section eight growing up. 97 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: Turner ended up getting a full ride to play football 98 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: in college and played nine seasons as a cornerback in 99 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: the National Football League. After he retired from the NFL, 100 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 2: he dabbled in politics, starting in twenty twelve. He served 101 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: two terms in the Texas House of Representatives, and Bloomberg's 102 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: Kristen Capps, who worked on this story with Sarah says 103 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: housing didn't appear to be high on the list of 104 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: Turner's political priorities back then. 105 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 4: He doesn't have a strong record of passing any kind 106 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 4: of housing bills. 107 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: But in twenty eighteen, Turner landed a job in the 108 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: first Trump administration. 109 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: He becomes the head of the White House's Council on 110 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: Opportunity Zones under the first Trump administration, and so the 111 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: Opportunity Zone program was basically a tax break for developers 112 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: to develop in distressed neighborhoods in the country, and so 113 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 3: Scott Turner used his experience in politics as experience in 114 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 3: public speaking to kind of helm that council, where he 115 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: traveled around the country basically preaching the gospel of opportunity zones, 116 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: talking to low income communities across the country about what 117 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 3: this sort of tax break for developers program could do 118 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: for them. So that's kind of the first time that 119 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 3: we see him intersect with the Trump administration. 120 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: The Opportunity Zone program ended up being a controversial one. 121 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: It attracted more than one hundred billion dollars in investment, 122 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: far more than anticipated, but research suggests the program poured 123 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: money into areas already primed for development, and jobs mostly 124 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: went to outside workers. Under President Biden, opportunity zones went 125 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: on the back burner and Turner went back to Texas. 126 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: He became an associate pastor for a Dallas area Baptist 127 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 2: megachurch and chief visionary officer for a multi family real 128 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,679 Speaker 2: estate developer. Then, when Trump was reelected, he tapped Turner 129 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: to run HUD. 130 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 5: It's a pleasure to be here today to introduce my 131 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 5: friend and fellow Texan Scott Turner to be the next 132 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 5: Secretary of the US Housing Department of Housing and Urban Development, 133 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 5: Thank you. 134 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: What are his ideas and vision for HUD, What does 135 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: he want to see it turn into under his leadership. 136 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: So one of the big things that housing advocates sort 137 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: of noticed about Scott Turner in his confirmation hearing was 138 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 3: he really emphasizes the importance of building affordable housing. 139 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 6: We have a housing crisis in our country. We have 140 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 6: the American people and families that are struggling every day. 141 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 3: Which is something a lot of people across the space 142 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: agree on as one of the ways to get America 143 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: out of this housing crisis. We have a housing shortage 144 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: of four point seven million homes, as much as seven 145 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: million affordable ones. 146 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 6: We need millions of homes, all kinds of home, multifamily, 147 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 6: single family, duplex, condo, manufacturing, housing, you name it. 148 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 3: But he's also someone who really distrusts the social safety net, 149 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:54,119 Speaker 3: And as we mentioned earlier, part of Hudd's main role 150 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: in this country is propping up the social safety net 151 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 3: with vouchers that they disperse to nine million tenants across 152 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 3: the country and their landlord. So he's really focused on 153 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 3: supply and he's really really distrustful of the voucher program. 154 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: In his confirmation hearing, Turner talked about slashing red tape 155 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: and said it's time for the federal government and for 156 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: the Housing Agency to do more with less. Here's a 157 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: telling exchange between Turner and Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. 158 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 7: Do you support additional federal investment in programs so that 159 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 7: we can lower the cost of building affordable housing? 160 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, Sanda Wall. What I do support is maximize 161 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: in the budget that we do have and making sure 162 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: that the money. 163 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 7: So he said, a no to additional investments. 164 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: Is a yes to maximize in the investment that we have. 165 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: After the break, how the Trump administration is shrinking HUD 166 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: and what it means for affordable housing, fair housing protections, 167 00:08:54,000 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: and homelessness in the US, HUDD started the year with 168 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: over eight thousand staffers, but after a few rounds of 169 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: buyouts led by the Department of Government Efficiency, Bloomberg's Kristen 170 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: Kapp says around twenty three hundred of those staffers left, 171 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: and HUD is now thirty percent smaller. 172 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 4: There was already within the administration during the election conversations 173 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 4: about cutting back programs. That's certainly been a talking point 174 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 4: for Republican administrations before Donald Trump in his first term. 175 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 4: So I think that HUD expected to see things like 176 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 4: cuts to voucher programs. 177 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 2: But Kristin says what they didn't expect was to lose 178 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 2: so many staff. Turner made it clear to Sarah in 179 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 2: their interview that he didn't fire all these people. 180 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 3: When I asked Turner about those numbers, he was very 181 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,599 Speaker 3: very clear that these were people who wanted to leave voluntarily. 182 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: I'll know you all, Bloomberg, You and other media outlets 183 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: have reported about these dark, deep cuts going on at HUT. 184 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: None of that is true. Tell me, we had twenty 185 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: three hundred people who opted to take a different path, 186 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: but we haven't had deep cuts. 187 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: However you describe these departures, Kristen says, they're already taking 188 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: their toll on several of HUD's key offices. 189 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 4: The office that distributes billions of dollars in community level 190 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 4: block grants has shed forty percent of its staff. The 191 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 4: office that oversees the housing vouchers have shed something like 192 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 4: thirty percent of staff. The Federal Housing Administration, which is 193 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 4: this agency that backs mortgage insurance for you know, many 194 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 4: first time home buyers across the country, and this is 195 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 4: a program that generates billions of dollars for the Treasury, 196 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 4: and that office has lost something like twenty five percent 197 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 4: of its staff. 198 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: Turner has said that HUD has enough staff to fulfill 199 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: its mission critical functions, and in a statement, HUD declined 200 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 2: to comment on specific staffing changes, but current and former staffers, 201 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 2: along with affordable housing advocates, told Sarah and Kristen that 202 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: the changes at HUD have hurt its ability to carry 203 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: out one of its most important mandates, preventing housing discrimination. 204 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 4: One of the duties for HUD from when it was 205 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 4: very first established was to enforce fair housing. To enforce 206 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: the provisions of the Fair Housing Act of nineteen sixty eight. 207 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 4: You know that meant that a person you know could 208 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 4: not be refused a home, could not be refused to rent, 209 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 4: could not be refused the opportunity to buy based on 210 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 4: their race, based on their religion. HUD has always been 211 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 4: on the forefront of enforcing these laws. 212 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: According to a HUDD union leader, the number of attorneys 213 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: who now work on fair housing cases at the agency 214 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: is down from around twenty to single digits. 215 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 3: When I asked Gott Turner about the level of fair 216 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: housing enforcement that's going on country right now. He said 217 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 3: the law will be followed, discrimination will be rooted out. 218 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: But HUT staffers say the agency is closing major discrimination 219 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 2: lawsuits and reopening cases where it already secured settlements. HUD 220 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: declined to comment on this. One advocate told Sarah that 221 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: HUDD has stopped pursuing cases involving allegations of discrimination on 222 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. A HUD 223 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: spokesperson said the agency can't comment on the status of 224 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: specific cases that have not been made public, and said 225 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 2: that they were upholding the president's executive order. That order 226 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: recognizes only two sexes and refutes the existence of trans people. 227 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: Turner has cut some of the red tape he promised. 228 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: He's pushed lawmakers to remove a federal regulation on manufactured 229 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: housing that could help unlock more factory build homes, and 230 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: he's also pulled back a range of information gathering requirements 231 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 2: for mortgage lenders in an effort to cut housing costs. 232 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: But Turner has advocated for funding changes that critics say 233 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: threatened to undermine the agency's core mission. 234 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 3: Trump's proposed budget calls for cutting HUD's overall budget by 235 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 3: more than forty percent. It also calls for consolidating the 236 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: voucher program we've talked about and moving it to the 237 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 3: states and cutting its funding significantly as well. It also 238 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 3: proposed two year time limits on vouchers, which would mean 239 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: that folks who have maybe lived in public housing for 240 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 3: six years even while working and can't afford a market 241 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: rent would be picked out of the program. 242 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 2: N YU researchers estimate that nearly one point four million 243 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: households could be impacted by such time limits. But Turner 244 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: has defended the cuts President Trump has proposed. 245 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 3: He's really re emphasized the idea of being efficient and effective, 246 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 3: and he said that, you know, we have record numbers 247 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 3: of people experiencing homelessness, sleeping on the streets, and HUD's 248 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: budget is more than seventy billion dollars, and so his 249 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 3: logic is that we're spent so much money and not 250 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 3: seeing results, like we should stop spending money. And members 251 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: of Congress have said they don't understand that logic, that 252 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: if the problem is so grave and so deep, part 253 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 3: of the issue is that HUD has been underfunded for 254 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 3: decades and they want to see more targeted investments and 255 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 3: they don't want to see millions of tenants being evicted 256 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 3: overnight from their residences because they say that that is 257 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 3: really the thing that could increase homelessness in this country. 258 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: Lawmakers have since proposed their own more generous spending plans 259 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: for HUD. 260 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: So the House and the Senate have submitted their own 261 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 3: budgets which restore a lot of that voucher funding, which 262 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 3: restore a lot of that affordable housing production funding. 263 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: Congress has until September thirtieth to pass a final budget, 264 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: a budget that housing advocates hope won't look much like 265 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: the one the President has proposed, but Sarah says that 266 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 2: doesn't mean the voucher program is safe. Putting time limits 267 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: on vouchers is still on Turner's priority list, and he's 268 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: also signaled he wants to add more work requirements to 269 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 2: rental aid. 270 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: Social safety and nets were never meant to be a hammock, 271 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: but instead they should be a trampoline. They were never 272 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: meant to be a resting place, but instead a place 273 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: to where you can get on your feet and then 274 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: to be projected out to live a life of self sustainability. 275 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 3: And so the concern is even without cutting the budget 276 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 3: by forty percent, you could still sort of reduce the 277 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: size and the importance and the significance of the voucher 278 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 3: program through these other sort of legislative changes. 279 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: Instead, Turner wants HUD to focus on getting as many 280 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: new homes built as possible. 281 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 3: Do you have a number. 282 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: I don't have a number. The number that really sticks 283 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: out of my head every day is seven million, because 284 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: that's the need that we have. But I believe by 285 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: taking down these burdens and regulations, by building public private partnerships, 286 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: by being very active with our state and local partners, 287 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: that we can and the President obviously is very in 288 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: tune to this and has made it a priority that 289 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: we can build many housand units, neighborhoods and projects in 290 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: the years that we have here. But one day at 291 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: a time. 292 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: The problem is building anywhere close to seven million homes 293 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: will take a while. 294 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: There are millions of Americans who need help from HUD 295 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 3: to pay the rent today, thousands of landlords who rely 296 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 3: on rental aid to make their mortgages today, and a 297 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 3: whole network of affordable developers who use HUD money to 298 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 3: break ground on new projects today. 299 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: Sarah, I want to wrap up by returning to something 300 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: you said, which is Scott Turner, the secretary of HUD, 301 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: is somebody who acknowledges the housing crisis, believes fervently in 302 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: the need to build more housing, and at the same 303 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: time he's very skeptical of a lot of the social 304 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: safety net programs. How hard is it for him to 305 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: hold both of those things at once, hold both of 306 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 2: those beliefs at once. 307 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: A lot of the people I've spoken to have told 308 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: me it's really hard to do both of those things 309 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: at once, because in its current at least, the affordable 310 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 3: housing ecosystem in the United States really depends on money 311 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 3: from HUT. It depends on the voucher program. It depends 312 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 3: on the work of people who are ensuring that folks 313 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 3: who can't afford to move when they're being discriminated against, 314 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 3: have protections. So if cuts to the voucher program go through, 315 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 3: even in the future, if HUD is no longer able 316 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 3: to defend tenants' rights in the same way, there could be, 317 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 3: sources say, even more homelessness, because what happens to folks 318 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 3: who are evicted from their public housing after two years 319 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: if time limits are to go into effect, what happens 320 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 3: to people who can't work who are caregivers for their family. 321 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 3: If work requirements were to go into effect, the market 322 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: rents right now are not affordable for broad swaths of 323 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 3: this country, and many affordable developers can't afford to build 324 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 3: affordable housing at a profit without those subsidies from HUT. 325 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 3: So if they cut these fundamental programs that HUD has 326 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 3: provided for decades, Turner could make it a lot harder 327 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 3: to address some of the underlying causes of the housing 328 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 3: crisis that he says he cares about so deeply. 329 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 2: This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. 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