1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin Slater Kinney has long been a safe space for 2 00:00:22,716 --> 00:00:27,036 Speaker 1: band members Kerrie Brownstein and Koryn Tucker. What started as 3 00:00:27,036 --> 00:00:29,316 Speaker 1: a group born out of the feminist punk riot girl 4 00:00:29,396 --> 00:00:32,956 Speaker 1: scene in Olympia, Washington in the early nineties, has grown 5 00:00:33,196 --> 00:00:38,356 Speaker 1: into a life affirming artistic endeavor. In late twenty twenty two, 6 00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:41,956 Speaker 1: tragedy struck when Carrie's mother and stepfather were killed in 7 00:00:41,996 --> 00:00:46,236 Speaker 1: a car accident overseas. In the months after, Carrie found 8 00:00:46,276 --> 00:00:49,116 Speaker 1: respite from her men's grief by playing the guitar for 9 00:00:49,236 --> 00:00:53,596 Speaker 1: hours on end and writing new music. Slater Kenney's latest album, 10 00:00:53,716 --> 00:00:56,876 Speaker 1: Little Rope, is in part a meditation on Carrie's grief, 11 00:00:57,556 --> 00:01:00,476 Speaker 1: but it's also proven to be a triumph for the band. 12 00:01:01,116 --> 00:01:03,796 Speaker 1: Koryn Tucker, who handles the bulk of the singing for 13 00:01:03,836 --> 00:01:07,876 Speaker 1: the new album, has been racking up rave reviews, including 14 00:01:07,876 --> 00:01:10,956 Speaker 1: one from The New Yorker, who noted that Koran's performance 15 00:01:11,116 --> 00:01:16,516 Speaker 1: is the most dynamic inflexible of her career. On today's episode, 16 00:01:16,556 --> 00:01:20,236 Speaker 1: Bruce HEADLM talks to Carry Brownstein and Koran Tucker about 17 00:01:20,276 --> 00:01:25,036 Speaker 1: their intimate recording relationship and how there's sometimes opposing approaches 18 00:01:25,076 --> 00:01:28,956 Speaker 1: to creative work. Compliment one another. They also talk about 19 00:01:28,956 --> 00:01:31,996 Speaker 1: the matriarchal nature of the early Olympia music scene and 20 00:01:32,036 --> 00:01:35,276 Speaker 1: why they wanted their new album to sometimes sound gross 21 00:01:35,476 --> 00:01:41,716 Speaker 1: and obnoxious. This is broken record liner notes for the 22 00:01:41,756 --> 00:01:46,476 Speaker 1: digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Bruce Headlm's conversation with 23 00:01:46,556 --> 00:01:47,316 Speaker 1: Slater Kenny. 24 00:01:48,276 --> 00:01:50,436 Speaker 2: I think for some acts, and I think you might 25 00:01:50,476 --> 00:01:53,156 Speaker 2: be one of them, critics almost get in the way. 26 00:01:54,116 --> 00:01:56,116 Speaker 2: I think this is the first time I've been able 27 00:01:56,156 --> 00:01:59,956 Speaker 2: to listen to one of your new records without reading 28 00:01:59,996 --> 00:02:02,956 Speaker 2: sort of manifesto about what it meant from somebody, or 29 00:02:03,836 --> 00:02:05,956 Speaker 2: you know, hearing all the kind of is it wired? 30 00:02:05,956 --> 00:02:06,156 Speaker 3: Girl? 31 00:02:06,236 --> 00:02:06,396 Speaker 2: Is it? 32 00:02:06,436 --> 00:02:06,556 Speaker 3: This? 33 00:02:06,676 --> 00:02:09,676 Speaker 2: Is this? It was just pure pleasure listening to it. 34 00:02:09,716 --> 00:02:14,116 Speaker 2: Just a great album, and it also is it's incredibly lively. 35 00:02:14,276 --> 00:02:16,356 Speaker 2: Like We've done a lot of interviews with people who've 36 00:02:16,396 --> 00:02:19,036 Speaker 2: sort of been coming out of pandemic, and a lot 37 00:02:19,036 --> 00:02:20,996 Speaker 2: of this stuff feels tentative. This feels like it was 38 00:02:21,036 --> 00:02:23,396 Speaker 2: a shot out of a cannon. I want to know 39 00:02:23,916 --> 00:02:27,996 Speaker 2: from you how this album started and the kind of 40 00:02:28,036 --> 00:02:30,236 Speaker 2: world you were trying to create with this album to 41 00:02:30,316 --> 00:02:31,916 Speaker 2: invite people in. What was it? 42 00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:36,956 Speaker 3: I think because we did make a Pandemic album before 43 00:02:37,036 --> 00:02:45,116 Speaker 3: this one, perhaps we got that insular, isolating sound out 44 00:02:45,156 --> 00:02:50,876 Speaker 3: of the way this one, I think we were recommitting 45 00:02:51,836 --> 00:02:55,716 Speaker 3: to the band, which to me is almost an act 46 00:02:55,756 --> 00:03:01,036 Speaker 3: you have to do with each album is recommit to 47 00:03:01,796 --> 00:03:06,036 Speaker 3: the need, recommit to the making and doing of music 48 00:03:07,036 --> 00:03:12,236 Speaker 3: and find necessity in it and intention and purpose so 49 00:03:12,276 --> 00:03:16,636 Speaker 3: that it's not random or something you take for granted, 50 00:03:18,076 --> 00:03:21,356 Speaker 3: and then you get to the task of making it. 51 00:03:21,396 --> 00:03:25,836 Speaker 3: But I do think because of that, and perhaps feeling 52 00:03:25,996 --> 00:03:32,316 Speaker 3: slightly underestimated, that you know when you're on your eleventh album, 53 00:03:32,476 --> 00:03:37,036 Speaker 3: that people wonder what you have to say. I think 54 00:03:38,236 --> 00:03:41,196 Speaker 3: as we were writing, we knew we had something to say. 55 00:03:41,516 --> 00:03:46,116 Speaker 3: I think there was an urgency to it. There was 56 00:03:47,196 --> 00:03:51,436 Speaker 3: a deliberate, I guess nature in terms of songwriting and 57 00:03:51,516 --> 00:03:55,476 Speaker 3: the craft of it and approaching things in new ways, 58 00:03:56,196 --> 00:03:59,356 Speaker 3: but also returning to some of the methods that we 59 00:03:59,476 --> 00:04:01,636 Speaker 3: have used for almost thirty years, which is the two 60 00:04:01,676 --> 00:04:04,596 Speaker 3: of us in a room together with guitar and singing. 61 00:04:06,596 --> 00:04:09,916 Speaker 3: So yeah, I think interest in terms of when you 62 00:04:09,956 --> 00:04:12,636 Speaker 3: start writing a record and it's your eleventh album, you 63 00:04:12,836 --> 00:04:17,596 Speaker 3: have to know that you want this still, because otherwise 64 00:04:17,596 --> 00:04:22,876 Speaker 3: there's just a flattening of the whole experience in the 65 00:04:22,916 --> 00:04:25,276 Speaker 3: sonic nature of it as well, which we didn't want. 66 00:04:26,516 --> 00:04:28,796 Speaker 2: Was there something different you did sonically here? It's a 67 00:04:28,796 --> 00:04:31,916 Speaker 2: great sounding record. There's a couple tracks particularly I thought 68 00:04:32,036 --> 00:04:36,796 Speaker 2: just had a great sort of background sound. I think 69 00:04:37,636 --> 00:04:39,516 Speaker 2: Hunt You Down was one of them that really just 70 00:04:39,636 --> 00:04:42,036 Speaker 2: had a great sort of atmosphere. 71 00:04:42,596 --> 00:04:46,756 Speaker 4: I think that, you know, we really approached it with 72 00:04:46,876 --> 00:04:51,156 Speaker 4: wanting to have, you know, an album that was really bold, 73 00:04:52,036 --> 00:04:55,236 Speaker 4: and we were fortunate enough to work with John Congleton 74 00:04:55,916 --> 00:04:59,316 Speaker 4: as a producer on this album, and so we worked 75 00:04:59,356 --> 00:05:04,996 Speaker 4: really hard on finding sounds that were cutting edge, kind 76 00:05:04,996 --> 00:05:08,716 Speaker 4: of extra, that were loud and sometimes gross was a 77 00:05:08,756 --> 00:05:12,676 Speaker 4: word that we used a lot, and we wanted it 78 00:05:12,716 --> 00:05:16,316 Speaker 4: to be a little bit obnoxious at times. 79 00:05:17,196 --> 00:05:19,556 Speaker 3: Yeah, But I think, like with something that Hunt You Down, 80 00:05:20,556 --> 00:05:23,716 Speaker 3: we wanted to set moods. But I don't like music 81 00:05:23,716 --> 00:05:26,196 Speaker 3: that is just vibe. But I do like things that 82 00:05:26,236 --> 00:05:30,596 Speaker 3: are immersive that bring you into a world. And I 83 00:05:30,636 --> 00:05:35,476 Speaker 3: think we we thought with each song about the rhythm 84 00:05:35,596 --> 00:05:38,996 Speaker 3: and what tones work with the song, and about arrangement 85 00:05:39,036 --> 00:05:41,556 Speaker 3: a lot. We also do a lot of editing. You know, 86 00:05:41,756 --> 00:05:44,396 Speaker 3: when you start out as a band, a lot of 87 00:05:44,436 --> 00:05:47,316 Speaker 3: it is first idea, best idea, or it's a culmination 88 00:05:47,516 --> 00:05:52,076 Speaker 3: of everything you've been thinking about, everything that's been percolating 89 00:05:52,116 --> 00:05:55,036 Speaker 3: and building up for your entire life. And then the 90 00:05:55,116 --> 00:05:59,396 Speaker 3: first three records are kind of an extension of I 91 00:05:59,396 --> 00:06:04,396 Speaker 3: don't know, that sort of back catalog of ideas. But 92 00:06:04,436 --> 00:06:08,916 Speaker 3: then after that there is a searching and a seeking 93 00:06:09,196 --> 00:06:13,596 Speaker 3: and so we don't always trust first idea, best idea. 94 00:06:13,916 --> 00:06:15,796 Speaker 3: We sit with something for a while, hunt you down. 95 00:06:15,796 --> 00:06:18,276 Speaker 3: As a song that we wrote three or four choruses 96 00:06:18,276 --> 00:06:23,436 Speaker 3: for that we really made have elements come in in, 97 00:06:23,556 --> 00:06:26,116 Speaker 3: you know, guitar parts that come in just once to 98 00:06:26,236 --> 00:06:30,156 Speaker 3: just punctuate and accentuate a certain lyric. We really thought 99 00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:33,516 Speaker 3: about that song as a journey, I think, and we 100 00:06:33,556 --> 00:06:36,996 Speaker 3: did that with a lot of these songs, really sat 101 00:06:37,036 --> 00:06:40,356 Speaker 3: with them and wrestled with them over and over again 102 00:06:40,636 --> 00:06:44,396 Speaker 3: until we had sort of the perfect version of them. 103 00:06:45,076 --> 00:06:46,716 Speaker 3: And then, of course you try to throw that out 104 00:06:46,716 --> 00:06:51,116 Speaker 3: when you're recording and accentuate things that are imperfect or 105 00:06:51,156 --> 00:06:54,196 Speaker 3: things that are messy, or things that kind of teeter 106 00:06:54,556 --> 00:06:55,236 Speaker 3: on the edge. 107 00:06:56,596 --> 00:06:58,716 Speaker 2: Can you tell me a little more what that writing 108 00:06:58,796 --> 00:07:00,996 Speaker 2: is like. You mentioned that you guys have always just 109 00:07:01,036 --> 00:07:05,756 Speaker 2: sat in rooms with guitars, I assume facing each other 110 00:07:05,876 --> 00:07:09,036 Speaker 2: and writing. Is that what's it like for you? What's 111 00:07:09,236 --> 00:07:12,956 Speaker 2: the room like, what are you playing? How does that work? 112 00:07:13,716 --> 00:07:17,676 Speaker 3: For this album? I was actually using a friend's apartment. 113 00:07:18,156 --> 00:07:22,276 Speaker 3: He has an apartment downtown and that was kind of 114 00:07:22,396 --> 00:07:24,716 Speaker 3: nice because Corn and I, when we do write together, 115 00:07:24,876 --> 00:07:28,236 Speaker 3: it is often in our own homes or you know, 116 00:07:28,716 --> 00:07:31,716 Speaker 3: small rooms, whether it's been a basement, that's very often 117 00:07:31,796 --> 00:07:35,156 Speaker 3: a basement or an office or some kind of den. 118 00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:39,276 Speaker 3: But we were in a space that was more like 119 00:07:39,316 --> 00:07:42,676 Speaker 3: aloft in downtown, and neither of us live downtown. A 120 00:07:42,676 --> 00:07:45,116 Speaker 3: lot of people in Portland live on the east side 121 00:07:45,116 --> 00:07:47,036 Speaker 3: of town, so you're not kind of immersed in the 122 00:07:47,396 --> 00:07:50,796 Speaker 3: city of Portland. So we were on this sort of 123 00:07:50,876 --> 00:07:54,196 Speaker 3: upper floor able to kind of look out at the 124 00:07:54,276 --> 00:07:59,116 Speaker 3: river and see the skyline and you know, see the 125 00:08:00,196 --> 00:08:02,356 Speaker 3: sort of the mountains, you know, Mountain Hood in the 126 00:08:02,476 --> 00:08:06,436 Speaker 3: in the distance and Mount Tabor, and that was kind 127 00:08:06,476 --> 00:08:10,956 Speaker 3: of nice to build, to have this particular space that 128 00:08:10,996 --> 00:08:16,476 Speaker 3: we didn't necessarily know we're going to have that. We 129 00:08:16,596 --> 00:08:20,116 Speaker 3: only wrote music there. It wasn't anywhere that we did 130 00:08:21,396 --> 00:08:26,076 Speaker 3: any other living. We just went there and wrote and worked, 131 00:08:26,556 --> 00:08:30,556 Speaker 3: and I think that kind of insolarity can be good. 132 00:08:31,036 --> 00:08:34,036 Speaker 3: You know. Sometimes I like when you're writing and you're 133 00:08:34,036 --> 00:08:37,316 Speaker 3: sort of it's ambient and you're kind of eating and 134 00:08:37,356 --> 00:08:40,116 Speaker 3: breathing music and you can walk from your you know, 135 00:08:40,596 --> 00:08:42,756 Speaker 3: where your amplifier is, to the kitchen. But I also 136 00:08:42,876 --> 00:08:47,236 Speaker 3: just like getting in my car or walking and being 137 00:08:47,276 --> 00:08:49,276 Speaker 3: in the space where I know what I'm there to 138 00:08:49,356 --> 00:08:51,956 Speaker 3: do is write and work. And we had that with 139 00:08:52,036 --> 00:08:53,916 Speaker 3: this album, which we have not always had. 140 00:08:55,236 --> 00:09:00,436 Speaker 4: I think that we we give ourselves multiple avenues to 141 00:09:01,196 --> 00:09:05,916 Speaker 4: arrive upon a song, whether it's jamming on something or 142 00:09:06,476 --> 00:09:08,876 Speaker 4: working on a particular part of a song, trying to 143 00:09:08,876 --> 00:09:11,756 Speaker 4: crack a certain chorus of a song, you know. I 144 00:09:11,876 --> 00:09:18,636 Speaker 4: think that we allow ourselves to experiment with different ways 145 00:09:18,676 --> 00:09:23,316 Speaker 4: of writing in different places, different setups, so that we 146 00:09:23,356 --> 00:09:25,596 Speaker 4: can approach things from different angles. 147 00:09:26,196 --> 00:09:29,076 Speaker 3: We also sometimes send ideas back and forth, you know, 148 00:09:29,236 --> 00:09:34,676 Speaker 3: using software, you know, where we can really flush out 149 00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:36,996 Speaker 3: an entire demo of something, and then the other person 150 00:09:37,756 --> 00:09:39,596 Speaker 3: gets it and sits with it for a while and 151 00:09:39,636 --> 00:09:42,556 Speaker 3: maybe reharmonizes the chords underneath it, or works on a 152 00:09:42,596 --> 00:09:43,436 Speaker 3: top line melody. 153 00:09:44,996 --> 00:09:47,556 Speaker 2: Can you walk me through? I mean, lots of standouts 154 00:09:47,556 --> 00:09:50,636 Speaker 2: on this record, but Untidy Creature, which is the last track, 155 00:09:51,236 --> 00:09:52,956 Speaker 2: so I'm starting with the end, but I thought it 156 00:09:52,996 --> 00:09:56,356 Speaker 2: was such an outstanding song. How did that start? How 157 00:09:56,356 --> 00:09:57,876 Speaker 2: did that go back and forth between you? 158 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:01,876 Speaker 4: The funny thing about that song is it actually was 159 00:10:01,916 --> 00:10:04,756 Speaker 4: the first song we wrote for the album, and we 160 00:10:04,836 --> 00:10:12,276 Speaker 4: wrote it in was it twenty twenty one, beginning of 161 00:10:12,316 --> 00:10:16,876 Speaker 4: that year, and I think Carrie had this great riff 162 00:10:17,036 --> 00:10:21,716 Speaker 4: idea for a song, and I think we just started 163 00:10:21,796 --> 00:10:27,196 Speaker 4: jamming on that one and coming up with an idea 164 00:10:28,396 --> 00:10:31,996 Speaker 4: for the song. And I think it came together fairly 165 00:10:32,076 --> 00:10:37,116 Speaker 4: quickly in terms of the music of the song, but 166 00:10:37,156 --> 00:10:40,756 Speaker 4: the lyrics really changed over the year. You know, I 167 00:10:40,796 --> 00:10:45,636 Speaker 4: think that I wanted it to be a really personal story, 168 00:10:45,756 --> 00:10:52,116 Speaker 4: but it also definitely reflects what happened in the past 169 00:10:52,116 --> 00:10:54,916 Speaker 4: couple of years in terms of women's rights in this 170 00:10:54,996 --> 00:11:02,076 Speaker 4: country and in terms of feeling autonomous and feeling respected. 171 00:11:02,236 --> 00:11:05,116 Speaker 4: I think that, you know, it's meant to reflect that 172 00:11:05,436 --> 00:11:07,476 Speaker 4: experience and rebel against it. 173 00:11:09,196 --> 00:11:12,796 Speaker 2: Of that opening riff, it actually reminds me, it's like 174 00:11:12,836 --> 00:11:16,876 Speaker 2: a minor version to me of the Waterloo Sunset riff, 175 00:11:17,116 --> 00:11:20,756 Speaker 2: kind of the way that little figure just descends when 176 00:11:20,756 --> 00:11:23,596 Speaker 2: you work out the music for that, and did you 177 00:11:23,636 --> 00:11:27,676 Speaker 2: work out the music really solidly before the lyrical ideas 178 00:11:27,716 --> 00:11:31,676 Speaker 2: came yes, When do you guys kind of lock in 179 00:11:32,276 --> 00:11:34,596 Speaker 2: your guitar plank? Because I can't think of another band 180 00:11:34,756 --> 00:11:38,276 Speaker 2: that has an interaction between guitar players the way you 181 00:11:38,316 --> 00:11:41,036 Speaker 2: guys do. You don't have a bass player, but there's 182 00:11:41,036 --> 00:11:43,516 Speaker 2: something amazing about how you fill up the space with 183 00:11:43,556 --> 00:11:47,756 Speaker 2: your two guitars. How do you work that out? 184 00:11:48,316 --> 00:11:53,756 Speaker 3: That is a very ineffable thing, and it's a sonic 185 00:11:54,596 --> 00:11:59,516 Speaker 3: vernacular that we came to very early in this band, 186 00:12:00,316 --> 00:12:03,796 Speaker 3: and it is very instinctive in some ways in terms 187 00:12:03,836 --> 00:12:08,476 Speaker 3: of how we fill things out sonically. You know, neither 188 00:12:08,516 --> 00:12:12,716 Speaker 3: of us are trained musicians, so we are often approaching 189 00:12:12,796 --> 00:12:18,316 Speaker 3: things a little bit differently, probably not always doing what 190 00:12:18,436 --> 00:12:22,716 Speaker 3: is expected in terms of chord progression, no progression, kind 191 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:27,916 Speaker 3: of hybridizing scales and sliding into notes that might not be, 192 00:12:28,516 --> 00:12:32,956 Speaker 3: you know, the most comfortable for the listener, and I 193 00:12:32,996 --> 00:12:37,876 Speaker 3: think that then affects how Korn sings. We also dtuned 194 00:12:37,916 --> 00:12:42,796 Speaker 3: to C sharp, which always creates something that feels I 195 00:12:42,836 --> 00:12:49,076 Speaker 3: think a little bit scary and certainly a little bit sour. 196 00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:53,476 Speaker 3: Sometimes the tuning is slippery in C sharp. No matter 197 00:12:53,956 --> 00:13:01,116 Speaker 3: how many people intonate these guitars, it definitely creates some 198 00:13:01,236 --> 00:13:05,116 Speaker 3: dissonance there that we like, you know, we like creating 199 00:13:05,156 --> 00:13:10,036 Speaker 3: a sonic landscape that isn't just something that you can 200 00:13:10,076 --> 00:13:13,116 Speaker 3: sort of relax into it, because then when it does, 201 00:13:13,276 --> 00:13:16,676 Speaker 3: when all the notes align, it's very satisfying. But there's 202 00:13:16,716 --> 00:13:19,716 Speaker 3: a lot of times where the notes are misaligning, you know, 203 00:13:19,756 --> 00:13:22,436 Speaker 3: when it's it's just right on the edge of not 204 00:13:22,596 --> 00:13:26,036 Speaker 3: being right. So I think we're aware of that as 205 00:13:26,036 --> 00:13:30,316 Speaker 3: we are putting the guitar parts together and we utilize 206 00:13:30,956 --> 00:13:35,356 Speaker 3: that discord, we seek it out a little bit and 207 00:13:35,436 --> 00:13:40,316 Speaker 3: we toy with it. And then we can also contrast 208 00:13:40,356 --> 00:13:43,836 Speaker 3: that really well with something pretty like Untidy Creature starts 209 00:13:43,836 --> 00:13:47,556 Speaker 3: out with that big riff and then it breaks down 210 00:13:47,596 --> 00:13:52,916 Speaker 3: into a very beautiful, catchy verse, has much more classic 211 00:13:53,116 --> 00:13:57,036 Speaker 3: like chord, you know, structures. And then the other interesting 212 00:13:57,116 --> 00:14:02,276 Speaker 3: thing about that song is that because we didn't record it, 213 00:14:02,596 --> 00:14:06,956 Speaker 3: Korin misremembered the chord she played under my riff, so 214 00:14:06,996 --> 00:14:12,636 Speaker 3: she ended up writing two different chord progressions. And when 215 00:14:12,676 --> 00:14:15,276 Speaker 3: I remembered that she had written two different ones, I thought, well, 216 00:14:15,356 --> 00:14:19,076 Speaker 3: let's use both. So at the end of the song 217 00:14:20,396 --> 00:14:23,756 Speaker 3: it switches. She just her guitar switches. I'm still playing 218 00:14:23,796 --> 00:14:28,636 Speaker 3: that riff and her part switches. And I think we 219 00:14:28,676 --> 00:14:31,516 Speaker 3: are conscious of the ways that that can really change something. 220 00:14:31,556 --> 00:14:35,596 Speaker 3: It can make something go from minor to major, or 221 00:14:35,676 --> 00:14:38,156 Speaker 3: even something a little more subtle than that. And it's 222 00:14:38,316 --> 00:14:41,956 Speaker 3: very satisfying. We are such a guitar bassed band. That 223 00:14:42,116 --> 00:14:45,156 Speaker 3: is such a tool for us in terms of how 224 00:14:45,196 --> 00:14:52,716 Speaker 3: we express, you know, the emotion in our song. And so, yeah, 225 00:14:52,756 --> 00:14:56,076 Speaker 3: we are we are very particular about it, but mostly 226 00:14:56,116 --> 00:14:59,756 Speaker 3: it's instinctive. But we also, I think have gotten better 227 00:15:00,356 --> 00:15:02,036 Speaker 3: at utilizing it effectively. 228 00:15:03,316 --> 00:15:06,196 Speaker 2: Just so I understand, are you using standard tuning and 229 00:15:06,196 --> 00:15:10,676 Speaker 2: then tuning everything down three se It's not a it's 230 00:15:10,676 --> 00:15:11,956 Speaker 2: not an alteration. 231 00:15:11,956 --> 00:15:14,716 Speaker 3: That would be even more insane. Yes, And in fact, 232 00:15:14,756 --> 00:15:17,156 Speaker 3: sometimes when we've had people come into the studio or 233 00:15:17,316 --> 00:15:21,836 Speaker 3: join us live and we say, see sharp, they're imagining 234 00:15:21,916 --> 00:15:25,476 Speaker 3: some real jazzy, crazy tuning and really no, it's just 235 00:15:25,516 --> 00:15:28,236 Speaker 3: basically standard but dropped you know, a step and a 236 00:15:28,276 --> 00:15:28,756 Speaker 3: half there. 237 00:15:29,956 --> 00:15:33,316 Speaker 2: And was this just something you started doing early or it. 238 00:15:33,236 --> 00:15:34,116 Speaker 3: Was such an accident? 239 00:15:34,236 --> 00:15:37,476 Speaker 4: Great corn, Yeah, it really was an accident and was 240 00:15:37,956 --> 00:15:41,076 Speaker 4: I think when we first started playing together, I had 241 00:15:41,156 --> 00:15:45,356 Speaker 4: detuned my guitar for my former band, I was the 242 00:15:45,436 --> 00:15:49,396 Speaker 4: only player. I was the only instrument player, and I 243 00:15:49,596 --> 00:15:54,476 Speaker 4: liked singing with a slightly dropped tuning because it made 244 00:15:54,476 --> 00:15:57,876 Speaker 4: my voice. It just gave like a drama to my 245 00:15:57,996 --> 00:16:01,676 Speaker 4: voice that I liked. And so when Kary and I 246 00:16:01,716 --> 00:16:06,316 Speaker 4: started playing together, when we finally tuned our guitars to 247 00:16:06,396 --> 00:16:09,116 Speaker 4: each other, it happened to be C sharp, and we're like, great, 248 00:16:09,756 --> 00:16:10,356 Speaker 4: that's what it is. 249 00:16:10,436 --> 00:16:12,476 Speaker 3: Yes, it could have been D at that, you know, 250 00:16:12,556 --> 00:16:14,276 Speaker 3: I mean, it could have been it could have been 251 00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:17,316 Speaker 3: E flat, could have been d Literally the moment we 252 00:16:17,396 --> 00:16:21,916 Speaker 3: decided to codify it, it was C sharp, and for 253 00:16:21,956 --> 00:16:26,956 Speaker 3: some reason, we still only tune to that. It is 254 00:16:27,836 --> 00:16:31,196 Speaker 3: the language of this band. It's like you step into 255 00:16:31,196 --> 00:16:33,876 Speaker 3: the land of Slater Kenny and everybody speaks C sharp. 256 00:16:34,116 --> 00:16:36,196 Speaker 3: That's just it's one of the only rules. 257 00:16:38,076 --> 00:16:40,236 Speaker 1: After a quick break, we'll be back with more from 258 00:16:40,316 --> 00:16:47,276 Speaker 1: Slater Kenny. We're back with more from Bruce Hedlam and 259 00:16:47,316 --> 00:16:48,076 Speaker 1: Slater Kenny. 260 00:16:48,796 --> 00:16:52,836 Speaker 2: So did the lyrical idea? Does it grow naturally out 261 00:16:52,836 --> 00:16:56,476 Speaker 2: of the music or you're just hearing it and you think, well, no, 262 00:16:56,556 --> 00:16:58,556 Speaker 2: I have this, I have a lyrical idea I can 263 00:16:58,596 --> 00:17:00,876 Speaker 2: apply it to this or are you listening to it 264 00:17:00,916 --> 00:17:02,916 Speaker 2: saying it's got to be this, this is where it's 265 00:17:02,956 --> 00:17:03,356 Speaker 2: leading me. 266 00:17:05,036 --> 00:17:06,396 Speaker 5: I think it depends on the song. 267 00:17:07,716 --> 00:17:13,596 Speaker 4: I think for a tidy creature, that one had some 268 00:17:13,756 --> 00:17:17,956 Speaker 4: lyrics that came very naturally while I was singing, but 269 00:17:18,036 --> 00:17:22,916 Speaker 4: I really wanted to develop a story in that song 270 00:17:23,196 --> 00:17:27,676 Speaker 4: that you know, was about one particular experience that was 271 00:17:27,716 --> 00:17:31,356 Speaker 4: about being inside of a world instead of a moment 272 00:17:31,916 --> 00:17:32,956 Speaker 4: inside of a feeling. 273 00:17:33,956 --> 00:17:37,596 Speaker 5: And so that involved a lot of. 274 00:17:38,236 --> 00:17:42,236 Speaker 4: Writing and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting those lyrics, but 275 00:17:42,356 --> 00:17:46,796 Speaker 4: it was the music had come first in that particular song. 276 00:17:47,076 --> 00:17:49,996 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like both of us. But I definitely 277 00:17:50,356 --> 00:17:52,516 Speaker 3: write things down all the time, either in my notes 278 00:17:52,516 --> 00:17:55,556 Speaker 3: app or on an actual you know, in an actual 279 00:17:55,596 --> 00:18:01,756 Speaker 3: notebook lyric ideas, but I can't always be certain that 280 00:18:01,836 --> 00:18:04,076 Speaker 3: they will fit with the song. You know, a song 281 00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:07,356 Speaker 3: like Needlessly Wild or the verses of Hunt You Down. 282 00:18:09,356 --> 00:18:14,596 Speaker 3: It's like the music compels me to sing a certain 283 00:18:14,596 --> 00:18:17,036 Speaker 3: way or to sing certain words, and often we will 284 00:18:17,036 --> 00:18:21,156 Speaker 3: have placeholders and it's almost like a feeling like the 285 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:24,116 Speaker 3: word has to sound a certain way in your mouth. 286 00:18:24,516 --> 00:18:29,196 Speaker 3: You can't shoehorn some new set of consonants in there, 287 00:18:30,076 --> 00:18:34,156 Speaker 3: or you know, or it has to be this way syllabically, 288 00:18:34,276 --> 00:18:37,396 Speaker 3: like it does inform things. You want it to be 289 00:18:37,476 --> 00:18:43,516 Speaker 3: singable and not, you know, sort of clumsy. So sometimes 290 00:18:44,076 --> 00:18:48,156 Speaker 3: the melody a little bit dictates the lyrics, not every obviously, 291 00:18:48,196 --> 00:18:50,756 Speaker 3: you know you hear certain when I listen to a 292 00:18:50,756 --> 00:18:52,756 Speaker 3: band like The National, I think there's no way that 293 00:18:52,796 --> 00:18:56,396 Speaker 3: you know, Matt beren Journey must be almost telling a 294 00:18:56,396 --> 00:19:00,676 Speaker 3: short story here. But for us, I think, and especially 295 00:19:00,756 --> 00:19:05,196 Speaker 3: Korin with her capabilities as a singer, she can convey 296 00:19:05,356 --> 00:19:10,076 Speaker 3: a lot with very few words, but they still have 297 00:19:10,156 --> 00:19:13,316 Speaker 3: to be the right words. But I do think the 298 00:19:13,476 --> 00:19:17,156 Speaker 3: music can kind of inform what we end up singing about, 299 00:19:17,436 --> 00:19:21,156 Speaker 3: because it's a feeling, and if you put the wrong 300 00:19:21,236 --> 00:19:25,156 Speaker 3: lyrics over there over it, you can really tell, you know. 301 00:19:25,236 --> 00:19:26,956 Speaker 3: Sometimes those are the songs that don't end up on 302 00:19:26,996 --> 00:19:32,956 Speaker 3: the album because they just don't feel connected in that way. 303 00:19:33,236 --> 00:19:37,116 Speaker 3: The relationship is muddy between music and lyrics. 304 00:19:38,436 --> 00:19:40,636 Speaker 2: You mentioned the singing on this song, and I would 305 00:19:40,636 --> 00:19:44,276 Speaker 2: say the whole album, it's fantastic. I'm not sure you've 306 00:19:45,516 --> 00:19:49,476 Speaker 2: sounded better. In fact, Kryn, are there things you can 307 00:19:49,516 --> 00:19:52,076 Speaker 2: do with your voice now you feel you that you 308 00:19:52,116 --> 00:19:52,996 Speaker 2: couldn't do before? 309 00:19:54,476 --> 00:19:55,116 Speaker 5: Yeah? 310 00:19:55,356 --> 00:20:00,196 Speaker 4: Weirdly, yes, Over the years, I have started taking better 311 00:20:00,236 --> 00:20:04,196 Speaker 4: care of my voice, and I did start working with 312 00:20:04,596 --> 00:20:08,956 Speaker 4: a voice coach in Portland who helped me work on 313 00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:13,156 Speaker 4: and maintaining my voice on tour, and I think he 314 00:20:14,076 --> 00:20:18,956 Speaker 4: taught me a bunch about singing. He taught me how 315 00:20:18,996 --> 00:20:24,436 Speaker 4: to work through different parts of my voice and control 316 00:20:24,476 --> 00:20:27,476 Speaker 4: them a bit better. And so I think kind of 317 00:20:27,556 --> 00:20:31,236 Speaker 4: unconsciously that came out on this album because it was 318 00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:35,076 Speaker 4: it was a very emotional album, but it also has 319 00:20:35,116 --> 00:20:38,596 Speaker 4: a complexity to it that I think sort of really 320 00:20:38,876 --> 00:20:41,716 Speaker 4: speaks to where we are in our lives right now, 321 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:45,756 Speaker 4: and I wanted to be able to convey that with 322 00:20:45,836 --> 00:20:46,956 Speaker 4: the singing as well. 323 00:20:48,316 --> 00:20:53,436 Speaker 2: Carrie, did you find her singing on this album different? Yeah? 324 00:20:53,676 --> 00:20:56,116 Speaker 3: I think it is some of Korin's best singing. I 325 00:20:56,196 --> 00:20:58,316 Speaker 3: go back and listen to something like dig Me Out 326 00:20:58,396 --> 00:21:02,356 Speaker 3: or The Woods, which are two albums that Sleader Kinney 327 00:21:02,396 --> 00:21:05,756 Speaker 3: are sort of known for, and Korn's voice is incredible 328 00:21:05,876 --> 00:21:09,956 Speaker 3: on both of those albums. But the control role on 329 00:21:09,996 --> 00:21:16,436 Speaker 3: this album, the nuance, the diversity of sounds and voicings. 330 00:21:17,236 --> 00:21:22,116 Speaker 3: A song like Small Finds, there are three distinct vocal 331 00:21:22,116 --> 00:21:23,156 Speaker 3: styles on that song. 332 00:21:24,276 --> 00:21:24,476 Speaker 1: You know. 333 00:21:24,516 --> 00:21:28,236 Speaker 3: The verse has kind of a tossed off ensutionient, almost 334 00:21:28,316 --> 00:21:31,796 Speaker 3: Kim Gordon feel, and then the chorus is this big 335 00:21:31,876 --> 00:21:35,876 Speaker 3: rock voice, and then the coda, which takes you out 336 00:21:35,956 --> 00:21:41,596 Speaker 3: of the song, has this whole other, almost Jim Morrison 337 00:21:41,716 --> 00:21:45,396 Speaker 3: doors vibe. It's sounding to me, you know. And then 338 00:21:45,436 --> 00:21:50,076 Speaker 3: of course there's something like the choruses of Hell, which, yes, 339 00:21:50,156 --> 00:21:52,036 Speaker 3: you can maybe imagine that on dig Me Out, but 340 00:21:52,116 --> 00:21:54,836 Speaker 3: not with that control, and not with the verses being 341 00:21:54,916 --> 00:22:02,516 Speaker 3: so pretty and melodic. So yeah, I'm very impressed. And 342 00:22:02,556 --> 00:22:06,196 Speaker 3: I really needed quarant to sing more on this record 343 00:22:06,196 --> 00:22:10,556 Speaker 3: because I had just gone through loss in my life 344 00:22:10,596 --> 00:22:13,996 Speaker 3: and was grieving and didn't really think that my strength 345 00:22:14,036 --> 00:22:16,436 Speaker 3: was going to be in singing on this album, and 346 00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:21,516 Speaker 3: so Koran really stepped up, and it's probably the most 347 00:22:21,556 --> 00:22:24,636 Speaker 3: singing she's done since very very early Slater Kinney. 348 00:22:25,796 --> 00:22:29,836 Speaker 2: So, Koran was your voice your first instrument growing up? 349 00:22:31,036 --> 00:22:34,996 Speaker 4: My dad is he was like a hobby musician. He 350 00:22:35,436 --> 00:22:39,196 Speaker 4: played folk music in the sixties. He opened for Pete 351 00:22:39,236 --> 00:22:44,556 Speaker 4: Seeger once yeah, And he was always playing music when 352 00:22:44,556 --> 00:22:48,076 Speaker 4: I was little. I remember being two or three years 353 00:22:48,076 --> 00:22:50,876 Speaker 4: old and singing folk songs with him, and he would 354 00:22:50,916 --> 00:22:53,596 Speaker 4: play guitar and be like, sing this one, you know, 355 00:22:53,636 --> 00:22:57,276 Speaker 4: And I just thought that was what kids did growing up, 356 00:22:57,556 --> 00:23:00,156 Speaker 4: was learning folk songs. 357 00:23:00,716 --> 00:23:02,156 Speaker 5: I was wanted to sing. 358 00:23:02,356 --> 00:23:06,636 Speaker 4: I think I got really anxious as a teenager. I 359 00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:09,636 Speaker 4: didn't feel comfortable pursuing it because I I was just 360 00:23:11,156 --> 00:23:15,756 Speaker 4: I didn't have the self confidence. But when I arrived 361 00:23:15,796 --> 00:23:18,996 Speaker 4: in Olympia and I connected with the music scene there, 362 00:23:19,756 --> 00:23:24,516 Speaker 4: it was so supportive and so wide open in terms 363 00:23:24,516 --> 00:23:27,876 Speaker 4: of what a band could be, what a singer could be, 364 00:23:28,636 --> 00:23:31,916 Speaker 4: that I wanted to start my own band. I was 365 00:23:31,956 --> 00:23:34,996 Speaker 4: so inspired by other women in bands that I wanted 366 00:23:34,996 --> 00:23:37,756 Speaker 4: to do it myself. And so I started a band 367 00:23:37,796 --> 00:23:42,196 Speaker 4: right away and started singing in it and performing with 368 00:23:43,036 --> 00:23:45,956 Speaker 4: no real training and no real idea what I was doing. 369 00:23:47,796 --> 00:23:52,436 Speaker 2: Was there a particular song, a moment that made you 370 00:23:53,596 --> 00:23:54,956 Speaker 2: feel that you wanted to do this. 371 00:23:58,076 --> 00:24:01,556 Speaker 5: I think there was a moment. 372 00:24:01,636 --> 00:24:05,676 Speaker 4: It was February fourteenth, nineteen ninety one, and it was 373 00:24:05,996 --> 00:24:11,076 Speaker 4: a Valentine's Stay show with Bikini Kell and Bratmobile two 374 00:24:11,196 --> 00:24:16,596 Speaker 4: bands that I was extremely inspired by, and I think 375 00:24:17,196 --> 00:24:21,516 Speaker 4: Feels Blind by Bikini Kel was probably one of the 376 00:24:21,516 --> 00:24:26,356 Speaker 4: most inspirational songs. It hit me so hard at that age. 377 00:24:26,476 --> 00:24:30,516 Speaker 4: I was eighteen and I saw what they did as 378 00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:35,076 Speaker 4: a band. It was so impactful. It wasn't professional, it 379 00:24:35,156 --> 00:24:40,796 Speaker 4: wasn't polished, but it just really dared people to do 380 00:24:40,876 --> 00:24:44,836 Speaker 4: something different with our lives. And I felt like it 381 00:24:44,876 --> 00:24:48,436 Speaker 4: was a calling for me as well to start singing 382 00:24:48,436 --> 00:24:49,276 Speaker 4: and do my own band. 383 00:24:49,996 --> 00:24:51,716 Speaker 2: Carrie, what was it for you? 384 00:24:53,516 --> 00:25:00,236 Speaker 3: Gosh, A single moment. I think for me, it was 385 00:25:00,276 --> 00:25:02,996 Speaker 3: definitely in high school when I started actually going to shows. 386 00:25:03,036 --> 00:25:06,116 Speaker 3: You know, I had grown up listening to a lot 387 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:09,596 Speaker 3: of pop music in the eighties and watching MTV. I 388 00:25:09,636 --> 00:25:15,036 Speaker 3: could never decode how or what people were playing. There 389 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:20,836 Speaker 3: was a lot of spectacle surrounding that music. You couldn't 390 00:25:20,836 --> 00:25:25,436 Speaker 3: really permeate the artifice of it. But I started going 391 00:25:25,476 --> 00:25:29,196 Speaker 3: to shows in high school and I remember seeing hammer Box. 392 00:25:29,396 --> 00:25:33,276 Speaker 3: They were a band from Seattle, The Fastbacks Beat Happening, 393 00:25:33,876 --> 00:25:37,996 Speaker 3: and I would just watch these people play, like Kim 394 00:25:38,036 --> 00:25:41,036 Speaker 3: Warnick or Kurk Block from the Fastbacks, and I could 395 00:25:41,076 --> 00:25:45,476 Speaker 3: actually see what they were doing I could see what 396 00:25:45,516 --> 00:25:49,396 Speaker 3: the pedals, the guitar effects pedals look like. I saw 397 00:25:49,436 --> 00:25:51,756 Speaker 3: that there was a quarter inch cable going from an 398 00:25:51,756 --> 00:25:55,476 Speaker 3: amp to a pedal to maybe a tuner if we 399 00:25:55,476 --> 00:26:00,076 Speaker 3: were lucky, And I could see how their fingers moved 400 00:26:00,076 --> 00:26:03,516 Speaker 3: across the fretboard. I could see that there were monitors 401 00:26:03,596 --> 00:26:09,836 Speaker 3: like that. Whole machinery was demystified for me, and music 402 00:26:09,916 --> 00:26:15,676 Speaker 3: was something that was made. It wasn't just packaged or produced. 403 00:26:16,236 --> 00:26:20,916 Speaker 3: There was sweat and effort, and I really just needed 404 00:26:20,916 --> 00:26:22,876 Speaker 3: to kind of press myself to the front of those 405 00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:28,476 Speaker 3: stages and watch and decode. And so I think more 406 00:26:28,516 --> 00:26:32,916 Speaker 3: than a single moment, but just being in rooms every 407 00:26:32,916 --> 00:26:38,516 Speaker 3: weekend and understanding that this was something that wasn't happening 408 00:26:39,516 --> 00:26:42,516 Speaker 3: in New York or la or London, but happening in 409 00:26:42,556 --> 00:26:45,276 Speaker 3: the suburbs of Seattle and in Seattle and in all 410 00:26:45,276 --> 00:26:48,636 Speaker 3: these places that I inhabited with people that were just 411 00:26:48,676 --> 00:26:51,716 Speaker 3: a little bit older than me, and that I had 412 00:26:51,756 --> 00:26:54,796 Speaker 3: access to it, that I could if I got a guitar, 413 00:26:54,996 --> 00:26:59,076 Speaker 3: that I could play this. It wasn't foreign. 414 00:26:59,636 --> 00:27:01,436 Speaker 2: You know, I've asked that question of so many people, 415 00:27:02,036 --> 00:27:05,836 Speaker 2: and you're the first two have mentioned live music, not 416 00:27:05,916 --> 00:27:10,276 Speaker 2: recorded music. For so many people, it's you know, under 417 00:27:10,276 --> 00:27:14,236 Speaker 2: the covers with my radio hearing love Me Do for 418 00:27:14,276 --> 00:27:17,796 Speaker 2: the first time or whatever it is. It's amazing, that's 419 00:27:17,836 --> 00:27:19,556 Speaker 2: what you reacted to so strongly. 420 00:27:20,236 --> 00:27:23,396 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, of course we both have all those 421 00:27:23,436 --> 00:27:28,116 Speaker 3: moments of recorded music, but you know, we came up 422 00:27:28,956 --> 00:27:34,876 Speaker 3: with such community, and I think that idea of conveying 423 00:27:34,916 --> 00:27:38,756 Speaker 3: something live and being able to do that, to me, 424 00:27:38,876 --> 00:27:42,716 Speaker 3: it was not just an oral experience. There was something 425 00:27:43,276 --> 00:27:47,356 Speaker 3: more than just listening involved. It was ritual. 426 00:27:47,876 --> 00:27:51,716 Speaker 2: Your experience in Olympia is really interesting. People know the 427 00:27:51,796 --> 00:27:56,276 Speaker 2: Seattle scene from that era. Tell me how it was different, 428 00:27:56,356 --> 00:27:57,396 Speaker 2: or maybe it wasn't different. 429 00:27:58,236 --> 00:28:02,836 Speaker 4: I think it was different in terms of the diversity 430 00:28:03,036 --> 00:28:09,516 Speaker 4: of bands in Olympia and the kind of support there 431 00:28:09,676 --> 00:28:13,476 Speaker 4: was immediately for young women playing music. 432 00:28:13,636 --> 00:28:15,956 Speaker 5: And you know, I think that. 433 00:28:17,516 --> 00:28:20,956 Speaker 4: There was a space there for hearing about women's stories 434 00:28:21,076 --> 00:28:22,676 Speaker 4: and women's experiences. 435 00:28:23,396 --> 00:28:26,676 Speaker 5: That was super important. You know, there was a radio. 436 00:28:26,476 --> 00:28:34,596 Speaker 4: Station from the College at Evergreen that Diana Aaron's and 437 00:28:34,796 --> 00:28:39,116 Speaker 4: other friends DJ'ed at that would have our bands play 438 00:28:39,156 --> 00:28:45,276 Speaker 4: on them. There was multiple recording opportunities. I think for 439 00:28:45,516 --> 00:28:48,036 Speaker 4: bands it didn't cost any money. I mean my first 440 00:28:48,076 --> 00:28:53,756 Speaker 4: recording was Molly Newman renting a task tape recorder and 441 00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:58,476 Speaker 4: we made our first single off of recording. You know, 442 00:28:58,556 --> 00:29:02,716 Speaker 4: that was free, and so having those kinds of resources 443 00:29:02,716 --> 00:29:07,356 Speaker 4: and those opportunities available, I think, you know, it just 444 00:29:07,476 --> 00:29:12,116 Speaker 4: kind of eliminated of those barriers to have really interesting 445 00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:15,196 Speaker 4: already and female fronted bands happen. 446 00:29:16,236 --> 00:29:19,116 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was almost matriarchal compared to Seattle, and it 447 00:29:19,156 --> 00:29:21,916 Speaker 3: had an avant garde element. It had a real art 448 00:29:22,196 --> 00:29:26,756 Speaker 3: slant to it. In Olympia, there were bands were minimal. 449 00:29:27,276 --> 00:29:30,716 Speaker 3: There were a lot of two pieces, you know, like 450 00:29:30,756 --> 00:29:33,836 Speaker 3: sort of White Stripes were the first band that got 451 00:29:33,876 --> 00:29:36,756 Speaker 3: big as a two piece, but Olympia had twenty two 452 00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:40,076 Speaker 3: piece bands. A lot of bands didn't have bass. Just 453 00:29:41,036 --> 00:29:45,916 Speaker 3: convention was really done away with, and you could form 454 00:29:45,956 --> 00:29:47,916 Speaker 3: a band on a Monday and play a show on 455 00:29:47,956 --> 00:29:53,476 Speaker 3: a Friday. This notion of professionalism was very much deconstructed, 456 00:29:53,516 --> 00:29:57,276 Speaker 3: almost frowned upon, you know, which of course was endemic 457 00:29:57,316 --> 00:29:59,756 Speaker 3: to punk in general. And punk was you know, sort 458 00:29:59,756 --> 00:30:03,036 Speaker 3: of turning its nose up at a lot of those conventions, 459 00:30:03,036 --> 00:30:06,756 Speaker 3: but particularly in a scene like Olympia, you know, there 460 00:30:06,836 --> 00:30:09,956 Speaker 3: was a real i don't know, just sort of celebrating 461 00:30:10,796 --> 00:30:13,156 Speaker 3: of the amateur, and then of course eventually you want 462 00:30:13,196 --> 00:30:16,116 Speaker 3: to get better, and bands did, and they watched each 463 00:30:16,156 --> 00:30:20,756 Speaker 3: other and tried to best their last thing. But in 464 00:30:20,796 --> 00:30:25,316 Speaker 3: the spirit of it was definitely something that felt kind 465 00:30:25,356 --> 00:30:31,036 Speaker 3: of anti commercial, anti professional, and very much pro art, 466 00:30:31,516 --> 00:30:32,156 Speaker 3: pro weird. 467 00:30:33,916 --> 00:30:35,996 Speaker 2: I've always wondered if there's a flip side to that 468 00:30:36,076 --> 00:30:39,276 Speaker 2: kind of experience, which is it seems like a very 469 00:30:39,556 --> 00:30:42,876 Speaker 2: intense place and people are very intense about their art, 470 00:30:43,636 --> 00:30:48,956 Speaker 2: and sometimes intense fans can be punishing ones. There are 471 00:30:48,996 --> 00:30:52,116 Speaker 2: not a lot of casual fans of your band. There 472 00:30:52,156 --> 00:30:56,396 Speaker 2: are super fans, and their people say I've never really 473 00:30:56,396 --> 00:30:59,596 Speaker 2: listened to them, and super fans kind of scare me 474 00:30:59,676 --> 00:31:03,196 Speaker 2: a little bit. You know. I'm thinking of someone I 475 00:31:03,196 --> 00:31:06,036 Speaker 2: really admired, Liz Fair, who put out one record that 476 00:31:06,636 --> 00:31:10,156 Speaker 2: people didn't like and it was like a war crime 477 00:31:10,276 --> 00:31:14,316 Speaker 2: or something. Maybe it's worse for women, like you know, 478 00:31:14,396 --> 00:31:17,756 Speaker 2: Lou Reid can do a whole album of guitar feedback, 479 00:31:18,076 --> 00:31:20,556 Speaker 2: and then Joni Mitchell does Mingus and people are like 480 00:31:20,916 --> 00:31:24,716 Speaker 2: furious with her when you're making records. Are you kind 481 00:31:24,756 --> 00:31:27,396 Speaker 2: of conscious of that core fan? Are you worried, well, 482 00:31:27,476 --> 00:31:29,236 Speaker 2: are they going to feel betrayed by this if we 483 00:31:29,316 --> 00:31:32,876 Speaker 2: do this? What's your relationship to those kinds of fans. 484 00:31:34,436 --> 00:31:38,756 Speaker 4: I think that we try and first and foremost make 485 00:31:38,876 --> 00:31:43,516 Speaker 4: a record for us, for ourselves that we're enjoying, that 486 00:31:43,596 --> 00:31:49,556 Speaker 4: we feel like we're doing something new when we write music. 487 00:31:50,956 --> 00:31:54,916 Speaker 4: I wouldn't say that we're totally unconscious of our fans 488 00:31:54,996 --> 00:31:56,956 Speaker 4: and what people enjoy about the band. 489 00:31:57,236 --> 00:31:59,316 Speaker 5: I think that would be dishonest. 490 00:31:59,356 --> 00:32:03,116 Speaker 4: I think we do think about what people might enjoy, 491 00:32:03,276 --> 00:32:05,956 Speaker 4: but I think that you try and put that on 492 00:32:05,996 --> 00:32:10,396 Speaker 4: the back burner, and the front burner is stretching and 493 00:32:10,516 --> 00:32:14,796 Speaker 4: doing something interesting, because otherwise I think it's so easy 494 00:32:14,836 --> 00:32:16,596 Speaker 4: to feel stale in a band. 495 00:32:18,316 --> 00:32:20,596 Speaker 1: All right, one last quick break and then we'll be 496 00:32:20,676 --> 00:32:24,156 Speaker 1: back with the rest of Bruce Hedlam's conversation with Slater Kenny. 497 00:32:28,556 --> 00:32:31,876 Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of our conversation with Slater Kenny. 498 00:32:32,996 --> 00:32:36,476 Speaker 2: What do you do to make sure you don't go stale? 499 00:32:36,556 --> 00:32:39,236 Speaker 2: I mean, when you're younger, you're still learning to play, 500 00:32:39,316 --> 00:32:43,596 Speaker 2: you're still feeling your way out. You guys are very experienced. Now, 501 00:32:44,076 --> 00:32:45,916 Speaker 2: are there barriers you put up for yourself or the 502 00:32:45,996 --> 00:32:47,716 Speaker 2: things you feel now we got to get over this. 503 00:32:48,316 --> 00:32:51,916 Speaker 2: Is there a way of making it hard, making it 504 00:32:51,956 --> 00:32:53,076 Speaker 2: more rewarding. 505 00:32:54,636 --> 00:32:58,796 Speaker 3: I mean, that's the goal. I think it doesn't always 506 00:32:58,836 --> 00:33:01,636 Speaker 3: come easy to make it hard, if that makes sense, 507 00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:06,836 Speaker 3: But we try to avoid the facile or something that's 508 00:33:07,716 --> 00:33:13,156 Speaker 3: repetitive of Well, that's an avenue we've explored before. This 509 00:33:13,996 --> 00:33:16,516 Speaker 3: is you know, it's very easy for Korin and I 510 00:33:16,676 --> 00:33:21,876 Speaker 3: to have kind of these sort of angular terst guitar 511 00:33:21,996 --> 00:33:25,996 Speaker 3: parts intertwining and a certain kind of vocal. But we 512 00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:29,316 Speaker 3: allow ourselves now to kind of work through that process. 513 00:33:29,396 --> 00:33:33,036 Speaker 3: We will take every idea and sort of run with 514 00:33:33,116 --> 00:33:36,836 Speaker 3: it and exhaust it, because I think that's part of 515 00:33:36,836 --> 00:33:38,876 Speaker 3: the process. I think for a while, when we would 516 00:33:38,956 --> 00:33:41,876 Speaker 3: land upon an idea that felt too familiar, we would 517 00:33:41,876 --> 00:33:46,996 Speaker 3: discard it immediately. I think one methodology we've learned is 518 00:33:47,996 --> 00:33:50,756 Speaker 3: or one thing we've incorporated in our writing is patients 519 00:33:51,356 --> 00:33:55,476 Speaker 3: to sort of see something through until we know that 520 00:33:55,956 --> 00:33:58,996 Speaker 3: it's not working or that having faith that it will 521 00:33:59,036 --> 00:34:03,316 Speaker 3: transform into something that is working. But those parameters I 522 00:34:03,316 --> 00:34:06,036 Speaker 3: think are good, and there are ways that you can 523 00:34:06,196 --> 00:34:09,756 Speaker 3: have parameters. One is just setting time limits. You know, 524 00:34:09,916 --> 00:34:13,396 Speaker 3: those very few records are great when someone spends five 525 00:34:13,476 --> 00:34:17,756 Speaker 3: years recording them in the lap of luxury in paradise, 526 00:34:18,116 --> 00:34:21,756 Speaker 3: that's not like the best way to make great music. 527 00:34:21,876 --> 00:34:25,196 Speaker 3: But if you say, you know, we recorded Call the 528 00:34:25,276 --> 00:34:27,196 Speaker 3: Doctor in five days, and we recorded Dig Me Out 529 00:34:27,236 --> 00:34:30,836 Speaker 3: in ten, and we recorded The Woods in three weeks, 530 00:34:31,516 --> 00:34:36,076 Speaker 3: so you know we recorded this album in probably fifteen 531 00:34:36,876 --> 00:34:39,956 Speaker 3: to seventeen days, right, Quorna, You know that is a parameter. 532 00:34:40,116 --> 00:34:43,436 Speaker 3: That is a limitation. Now we'd already done the writing 533 00:34:43,476 --> 00:34:47,636 Speaker 3: on it. But I think having something some where it 534 00:34:48,356 --> 00:34:52,116 Speaker 3: feels like you're pushing against something that is you can't 535 00:34:52,116 --> 00:34:55,916 Speaker 3: really manufacture that, but I think you can trick yourself 536 00:34:56,196 --> 00:34:59,156 Speaker 3: a little bit into into having something to push against. 537 00:34:59,596 --> 00:35:02,756 Speaker 3: And that's important because then you have to justify. You 538 00:35:02,796 --> 00:35:07,556 Speaker 3: have to, Okay, can I justify this part or this length, 539 00:35:07,676 --> 00:35:11,636 Speaker 3: like what you know, test me on, like someone's sort 540 00:35:11,676 --> 00:35:14,396 Speaker 3: of testing you, someone's pushing back, and you say, like, no, 541 00:35:15,276 --> 00:35:18,036 Speaker 3: I'm going to affirm this thing. That that is helpful. 542 00:35:18,956 --> 00:35:23,116 Speaker 3: But each album kind of has its own world to it, 543 00:35:23,236 --> 00:35:26,236 Speaker 3: and sometimes the worlds of a Slater tiny record have 544 00:35:26,316 --> 00:35:29,716 Speaker 3: really high stakes, and this one did. And it's not 545 00:35:29,756 --> 00:35:32,236 Speaker 3: an experience we would I would ever want to live 546 00:35:32,276 --> 00:35:34,876 Speaker 3: through again. I'm talking about the death of two people 547 00:35:34,916 --> 00:35:37,076 Speaker 3: in my family that occurred when we were making this record. 548 00:35:37,436 --> 00:35:39,396 Speaker 3: You know, I would I never want to live through 549 00:35:39,396 --> 00:35:42,076 Speaker 3: that again. But it certainly raised the stakes and it 550 00:35:42,196 --> 00:35:51,036 Speaker 3: created an absolute, like ontological like shift in this band, 551 00:35:51,556 --> 00:35:56,476 Speaker 3: and that that doesn't always happen. And short of that, 552 00:35:56,516 --> 00:35:59,396 Speaker 3: you have to create a way for there to be 553 00:36:00,716 --> 00:36:06,236 Speaker 3: stakes and necessity and parameters. Life doesn't always bring you that, 554 00:36:06,356 --> 00:36:09,716 Speaker 3: and I wouldn't wish those parameters brought onto any now. 555 00:36:09,756 --> 00:36:12,596 Speaker 2: For a lot of people, that would be a reason 556 00:36:12,796 --> 00:36:18,956 Speaker 2: to stop making the record. Did you consider that, No. 557 00:36:19,556 --> 00:36:25,676 Speaker 3: I needed music more after the death of my mom 558 00:36:26,036 --> 00:36:31,276 Speaker 3: and stepfather. I needed the choreography of playing guitar. I 559 00:36:31,316 --> 00:36:38,996 Speaker 3: needed to feel something almost prayerful. And that's what music 560 00:36:39,116 --> 00:36:41,996 Speaker 3: is for me. It's a version of that. It's a 561 00:36:42,116 --> 00:36:47,156 Speaker 3: version of placing myself in a room communing with something 562 00:36:47,236 --> 00:36:51,316 Speaker 3: bigger than me, putting my fingers on the neck of 563 00:36:51,356 --> 00:36:56,716 Speaker 3: the guitar. I played and wrote over and over again 564 00:36:56,796 --> 00:36:59,196 Speaker 3: for eight hours a day, sometimes, which I hadn't really 565 00:36:59,236 --> 00:37:01,316 Speaker 3: done since I was in high school or in the 566 00:37:01,356 --> 00:37:06,036 Speaker 3: early years of Slater Kindney. It was it became an 567 00:37:06,076 --> 00:37:12,116 Speaker 3: absolute need for me, and I think we just we 568 00:37:12,196 --> 00:37:14,716 Speaker 3: just kept going. I also needed the songs to be 569 00:37:15,356 --> 00:37:19,436 Speaker 3: what I couldn't be. You know, I felt incoherent, I 570 00:37:19,516 --> 00:37:25,716 Speaker 3: felt weak, I felt despondent, and I needed the songs 571 00:37:25,756 --> 00:37:27,596 Speaker 3: to be the opposite of those things. I needed the 572 00:37:27,636 --> 00:37:33,036 Speaker 3: songs to be coherent and vibrant and strong and make 573 00:37:33,076 --> 00:37:36,756 Speaker 3: noise in a way where I felt mute. So we 574 00:37:36,836 --> 00:37:40,316 Speaker 3: just channeled all all of that into into the into 575 00:37:40,356 --> 00:37:42,116 Speaker 3: the songs, and even the songs we had already written 576 00:37:42,196 --> 00:37:44,556 Speaker 3: and we had recorded a handful of them, were sort 577 00:37:44,596 --> 00:37:46,716 Speaker 3: of dragged into this new reality. 578 00:37:48,076 --> 00:37:52,636 Speaker 2: Your book, which is excellent, you write about being a kid, 579 00:37:53,676 --> 00:37:57,636 Speaker 2: and by virtue of your parents' relationship, you were very 580 00:37:57,636 --> 00:38:04,916 Speaker 2: early dragged into the adult world of complications and complex feelings. 581 00:38:06,756 --> 00:38:10,436 Speaker 2: You know, one thing I really love about this album, 582 00:38:10,596 --> 00:38:13,996 Speaker 2: or all your albums, but this one is seeing people 583 00:38:14,076 --> 00:38:17,716 Speaker 2: try and figure out those complexities almost on the run. 584 00:38:18,516 --> 00:38:20,916 Speaker 2: In the relationship songs like say It Like You Mean 585 00:38:20,956 --> 00:38:25,996 Speaker 2: It Certainly and Dress Yourself Untidy Creature. Actually probably the 586 00:38:25,996 --> 00:38:30,196 Speaker 2: whole album. It's this sort of collision of polemical and 587 00:38:30,276 --> 00:38:34,836 Speaker 2: personal ideas. I'm wondering if that's a pretty common experience 588 00:38:35,396 --> 00:38:38,916 Speaker 2: for artists that as kids they're pulled into that kind 589 00:38:38,916 --> 00:38:41,276 Speaker 2: of adult world and they spend a lot of time 590 00:38:41,316 --> 00:38:43,716 Speaker 2: trying to figure that stuff out. Do you think that 591 00:38:43,756 --> 00:38:45,276 Speaker 2: relates to your writing. 592 00:38:47,076 --> 00:38:48,556 Speaker 3: I mean it's true for me, but I don't know 593 00:38:48,556 --> 00:38:52,596 Speaker 3: if it's true for everyone. I mean, obviously you hear 594 00:38:52,716 --> 00:38:56,036 Speaker 3: that a lot when you listen to someone talk about 595 00:38:56,596 --> 00:39:02,076 Speaker 3: what compelled them to create art, to drive them towards something, 596 00:39:02,556 --> 00:39:08,636 Speaker 3: to be driven to have grit, to yearn for something 597 00:39:08,716 --> 00:39:12,196 Speaker 3: that's helps them make sense of a situation that they 598 00:39:12,276 --> 00:39:16,516 Speaker 3: might not be able to do with words, with language 599 00:39:16,556 --> 00:39:19,676 Speaker 3: that they don't have. They channel that into something that 600 00:39:21,476 --> 00:39:27,236 Speaker 3: is artistic or physical, or involves a knowing without knowing, 601 00:39:27,636 --> 00:39:30,796 Speaker 3: you know, that kind of just an awareness with it 602 00:39:30,956 --> 00:39:35,596 Speaker 3: before you have the language. I think that was true 603 00:39:35,796 --> 00:39:39,716 Speaker 3: for me. I do think that our band, even though 604 00:39:39,756 --> 00:39:44,836 Speaker 3: obviously we are adults now and can express ourselves mostly eloquently, 605 00:39:45,796 --> 00:39:47,436 Speaker 3: I think there is a lot of Slater Kidney that 606 00:39:47,476 --> 00:39:54,476 Speaker 3: operates in that dual space of the conscious and unconscious, 607 00:39:55,036 --> 00:39:59,636 Speaker 3: where you have something that's concrete but also intangible. I 608 00:39:59,636 --> 00:40:02,236 Speaker 3: think we aim for that in our songs. You know 609 00:40:02,276 --> 00:40:06,596 Speaker 3: that there's something sort of ineffable and hard to grasp, 610 00:40:06,676 --> 00:40:10,316 Speaker 3: but also something very grounded. And that's kind of the 611 00:40:10,316 --> 00:40:14,036 Speaker 3: sweet spot with our band lyrically or musically, that it 612 00:40:14,036 --> 00:40:20,396 Speaker 3: feels very tethered to experience, tethered to honesty and integrity, 613 00:40:20,436 --> 00:40:24,556 Speaker 3: but also reaching for something that might transcend those things 614 00:40:24,636 --> 00:40:29,916 Speaker 3: or get you away from those concrete ideas, gives you 615 00:40:29,956 --> 00:40:35,756 Speaker 3: an allowance to escape from some of the hard truths. 616 00:40:35,796 --> 00:40:39,156 Speaker 2: I think you mentioned that you really needed the band 617 00:40:39,196 --> 00:40:44,836 Speaker 2: at that point, and does that explain in part why 618 00:40:44,836 --> 00:40:47,956 Speaker 2: there's so much short of energy in this record. You 619 00:40:47,996 --> 00:40:50,956 Speaker 2: always have energetic records, but you're kind of at the 620 00:40:50,996 --> 00:40:56,236 Speaker 2: stages in your career where a lot of songwriters and 621 00:40:56,276 --> 00:40:58,876 Speaker 2: people I love. The first thing that goes is the 622 00:40:58,876 --> 00:41:00,796 Speaker 2: fast song. I don't know if you've ever noticed that. 623 00:41:01,036 --> 00:41:03,196 Speaker 2: You know, they kind of they can do the mid 624 00:41:03,236 --> 00:41:06,836 Speaker 2: tempo song. They can do even better slow songs, but 625 00:41:07,956 --> 00:41:10,396 Speaker 2: they kind of lose something off fastball, and nobody wants 626 00:41:10,436 --> 00:41:13,636 Speaker 2: to admit it, but it's kind of there, not you, guys, 627 00:41:13,676 --> 00:41:19,036 Speaker 2: because this album just it just has such velocity. I 628 00:41:19,036 --> 00:41:21,836 Speaker 2: guess I would call it rhythm's great beats. It's all 629 00:41:21,916 --> 00:41:24,356 Speaker 2: kinds of things, but it just has such energy all 630 00:41:24,396 --> 00:41:25,036 Speaker 2: the way through it. 631 00:41:25,636 --> 00:41:28,316 Speaker 4: We were conscious of that and that we worked on 632 00:41:29,116 --> 00:41:32,276 Speaker 4: having fast songs. I think at one point we went 633 00:41:32,356 --> 00:41:34,676 Speaker 4: through the tempos of the different songs and we're like, 634 00:41:34,996 --> 00:41:35,836 Speaker 4: that's too slow. 635 00:41:36,196 --> 00:41:37,636 Speaker 5: That's too slow. We need to at. 636 00:41:37,596 --> 00:41:41,836 Speaker 4: Least have one song that's I don't know, one forty 637 00:41:41,876 --> 00:41:42,916 Speaker 4: tempo or above. 638 00:41:44,436 --> 00:41:46,076 Speaker 2: Really well, yeah. 639 00:41:47,116 --> 00:41:51,356 Speaker 3: I think it was helpful to record a batch of 640 00:41:51,396 --> 00:41:57,396 Speaker 3: the songs in August and to get a sense of 641 00:41:57,436 --> 00:42:00,636 Speaker 3: the album as a whole, like what did those songs represent? 642 00:42:01,716 --> 00:42:05,636 Speaker 3: Did they have enough variety in terms of rhythm and tempo. 643 00:42:06,036 --> 00:42:09,516 Speaker 3: We did intentionally write some fast songs, but we also 644 00:42:09,956 --> 00:42:12,396 Speaker 3: I think there was just a propulsion at that point, 645 00:42:13,116 --> 00:42:17,676 Speaker 3: like sometimes when you feel out of control or things 646 00:42:17,716 --> 00:42:22,836 Speaker 3: feel chaotic, you need something to match that, And so 647 00:42:23,676 --> 00:42:29,116 Speaker 3: we were able very naturally, very organically to come up 648 00:42:29,156 --> 00:42:33,356 Speaker 3: with fast songs. It wasn't I think there's something honest 649 00:42:33,396 --> 00:42:36,276 Speaker 3: when people write their mid and slow tempo songs. It's 650 00:42:36,316 --> 00:42:39,156 Speaker 3: because if they write the fast song, it feels like 651 00:42:39,876 --> 00:42:42,876 Speaker 3: they're quote writing the fast song, which I feel also 652 00:42:42,956 --> 00:42:45,516 Speaker 3: wary of, like, don't forget we can still do a 653 00:42:45,556 --> 00:42:47,796 Speaker 3: fast one, which is not what you want. You'd rather 654 00:42:47,836 --> 00:42:49,796 Speaker 3: have someone do a great mid tempo song if they're 655 00:42:49,796 --> 00:42:54,236 Speaker 3: not feeling the fast ones, but we I think we're 656 00:42:54,636 --> 00:43:02,476 Speaker 3: just there was a real sense of like tumult and yeah, 657 00:43:02,516 --> 00:43:07,396 Speaker 3: that we were able to last of those faster ones 658 00:43:07,436 --> 00:43:10,436 Speaker 3: and have them feel innate and that they belonged on 659 00:43:10,476 --> 00:43:14,316 Speaker 3: this record, and so we definitely ended up with a 660 00:43:14,316 --> 00:43:15,516 Speaker 3: handful of them. 661 00:43:16,116 --> 00:43:22,156 Speaker 5: I think a song like Small Finds, though, was it was. 662 00:43:23,796 --> 00:43:26,636 Speaker 4: Kind of a question mark going into the studio with 663 00:43:26,636 --> 00:43:29,556 Speaker 4: that one. I think John was really puzzled by that song. 664 00:43:30,396 --> 00:43:33,156 Speaker 4: And I loved that because I loved that we were 665 00:43:33,196 --> 00:43:35,436 Speaker 4: trying things that were a little bit of a stretch 666 00:43:35,996 --> 00:43:38,716 Speaker 4: and still a little bit avant garde, and that I 667 00:43:38,796 --> 00:43:41,036 Speaker 4: was trying this vocal thing with it, which John was like, 668 00:43:41,156 --> 00:43:44,716 Speaker 4: this is bizarre, and I was like, just wait, just wait, 669 00:43:44,756 --> 00:43:46,516 Speaker 4: just give me, give me five more minutes, let me 670 00:43:46,556 --> 00:43:47,556 Speaker 4: try this one thing, you know. 671 00:43:47,596 --> 00:43:50,396 Speaker 5: And and I think that we just in the end, 672 00:43:50,676 --> 00:43:51,356 Speaker 5: like it. 673 00:43:51,396 --> 00:43:54,036 Speaker 4: Kind of stipped together at the last minute, you know, 674 00:43:54,236 --> 00:43:56,996 Speaker 4: it kind of came together as this interesting flavor for 675 00:43:57,036 --> 00:44:00,156 Speaker 4: the album that was unlike any of the other songs. 676 00:44:00,236 --> 00:44:03,556 Speaker 4: And I think that's that's the joy of having the 677 00:44:03,636 --> 00:44:07,596 Speaker 4: patience and having that language with each other to say like, 678 00:44:07,716 --> 00:44:09,276 Speaker 4: just give me five more minutes, let me try this 679 00:44:09,316 --> 00:44:11,756 Speaker 4: one other thing with it. And sometimes that's what you 680 00:44:11,876 --> 00:44:15,396 Speaker 4: need in order to make something that's unique for the album. 681 00:44:16,596 --> 00:44:18,156 Speaker 2: I also want to ask you. I would like to 682 00:44:18,196 --> 00:44:20,596 Speaker 2: ask you about all the songs, but I'll tick one more, 683 00:44:20,636 --> 00:44:23,516 Speaker 2: which is say it like you mean it. Can tell 684 00:44:23,516 --> 00:44:24,396 Speaker 2: me about that one. 685 00:44:24,796 --> 00:44:28,316 Speaker 4: So that one I had this idea for. I had 686 00:44:28,316 --> 00:44:30,796 Speaker 4: the chorus for it, and I had this weird guitar 687 00:44:30,916 --> 00:44:33,636 Speaker 4: line for the verse. And I had a really hard 688 00:44:33,676 --> 00:44:38,236 Speaker 4: time finding a verse for that song. And Carrie was like, 689 00:44:38,316 --> 00:44:40,436 Speaker 4: this is great. You should keep working on it, you 690 00:44:40,436 --> 00:44:44,356 Speaker 4: should finish it, and you know, she helped kind of 691 00:44:44,636 --> 00:44:48,876 Speaker 4: work on the music for the verses, and I came 692 00:44:48,956 --> 00:44:53,676 Speaker 4: up with, you know, an idea. I started singing it 693 00:44:53,756 --> 00:45:00,116 Speaker 4: and I did a first take of it, and John said, no, 694 00:45:01,356 --> 00:45:06,116 Speaker 4: that's that's not really interesting enough. And it was very frustrating, 695 00:45:06,916 --> 00:45:10,076 Speaker 4: and I was like, okay, right, and I kind of 696 00:45:10,076 --> 00:45:14,156 Speaker 4: sat down on the couch, just like boiling inside. I 697 00:45:14,196 --> 00:45:16,196 Speaker 4: was like, just give me, just give me a minute, 698 00:45:16,316 --> 00:45:19,636 Speaker 4: give me some time with us one then, and I 699 00:45:19,716 --> 00:45:22,756 Speaker 4: went home that night and I went to bed and 700 00:45:22,796 --> 00:45:25,196 Speaker 4: I woke up in the middle of the night, and 701 00:45:25,276 --> 00:45:27,476 Speaker 4: I had this other idea for the vocal melody, and 702 00:45:27,516 --> 00:45:30,396 Speaker 4: I sang it to my phone and I came back 703 00:45:30,436 --> 00:45:34,116 Speaker 4: the next day and I rewrote the whole vocal melody 704 00:45:34,116 --> 00:45:37,956 Speaker 4: for the song. And when I started singing it, John 705 00:45:38,036 --> 00:45:41,596 Speaker 4: was like, Okay, yeah, yes, start there and then we 706 00:45:41,636 --> 00:45:43,316 Speaker 4: can go to this place in the chorus. And he 707 00:45:43,396 --> 00:45:48,116 Speaker 4: knew he knew where to go with that song when 708 00:45:48,156 --> 00:45:51,556 Speaker 4: I started it in a different place that was more vulnerable, 709 00:45:51,836 --> 00:45:54,596 Speaker 4: and then he pushed really hard on the chorus to 710 00:45:54,676 --> 00:45:58,996 Speaker 4: make it sort of have a range of feelings of 711 00:45:59,156 --> 00:46:02,516 Speaker 4: not just sad, but also you know, there's a bed 712 00:46:02,556 --> 00:46:06,116 Speaker 4: of anger on it and regret, and you know, I 713 00:46:06,236 --> 00:46:10,516 Speaker 4: think it was another song that evolved kind of at 714 00:46:10,556 --> 00:46:13,836 Speaker 4: the very last minute. You know, I'm so glad that 715 00:46:13,876 --> 00:46:16,316 Speaker 4: we had the patience to keep working on it. 716 00:46:17,516 --> 00:46:22,076 Speaker 2: I've noticed in other interviews that you Koran, sometimes the 717 00:46:22,156 --> 00:46:26,596 Speaker 2: relationship seems to be You're sometimes a little worried about 718 00:46:26,636 --> 00:46:30,316 Speaker 2: going too far with the song, and then Carrie is like, no, 719 00:46:30,516 --> 00:46:32,196 Speaker 2: I want you to go too far with this song. 720 00:46:32,676 --> 00:46:35,076 Speaker 2: Do I have that right? Is that the dynamic between you? 721 00:46:35,516 --> 00:46:37,916 Speaker 3: Yes, I think it is. I mean, that's kind of 722 00:46:37,956 --> 00:46:42,316 Speaker 3: our dynamic in general, like I'm like a speedboat and 723 00:46:42,396 --> 00:46:44,676 Speaker 3: Korn's like an oil tinker, and I'm like doing a 724 00:46:44,716 --> 00:46:48,756 Speaker 3: million like turns, and then Korin will slowly turn and 725 00:46:48,796 --> 00:46:51,276 Speaker 3: then when she's turned, it's like, oh my god, Whoop's okay? 726 00:46:51,316 --> 00:46:55,156 Speaker 3: Now this is It's like she's there and it is 727 00:46:55,196 --> 00:46:58,436 Speaker 3: like no going back with Koran, and I love that. 728 00:46:59,156 --> 00:47:01,436 Speaker 3: I love that we temper each other because Korn's like, 729 00:47:01,476 --> 00:47:03,356 Speaker 3: would you just slow down? This is like this is 730 00:47:03,396 --> 00:47:08,956 Speaker 3: so garrulous, this is just too many ideas, too many melodies, 731 00:47:09,516 --> 00:47:14,076 Speaker 3: and Koran is very, very steady and very commanding. 732 00:47:14,836 --> 00:47:17,756 Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's that old line that perfection is 733 00:47:17,796 --> 00:47:21,436 Speaker 2: the right combination of opposites. Are you opposites in other 734 00:47:21,476 --> 00:47:22,236 Speaker 2: ways as well? 735 00:47:25,876 --> 00:47:28,596 Speaker 4: I think we're more similar than we are different. I 736 00:47:28,636 --> 00:47:32,516 Speaker 4: think that, you know, we both really are disciplined about 737 00:47:32,596 --> 00:47:36,996 Speaker 4: art and think it's really important. Carrie's brain operates on 738 00:47:37,116 --> 00:47:39,916 Speaker 4: like a different level though for sure, like She's, she 739 00:47:40,116 --> 00:47:48,556 Speaker 4: has just a very high capability for composing and working 740 00:47:48,596 --> 00:47:52,036 Speaker 4: on things. And I would definitely say that I'm a 741 00:47:52,156 --> 00:47:57,356 Speaker 4: much more subconscious writer and that sometimes I have to 742 00:47:57,396 --> 00:47:59,756 Speaker 4: not think about something to find the answer for it. 743 00:47:59,836 --> 00:48:01,396 Speaker 4: I have to walk away, or I have to do 744 00:48:01,476 --> 00:48:07,236 Speaker 4: something else and it will need to hit me emotionally 745 00:48:07,436 --> 00:48:08,756 Speaker 4: for it to be the right answer. 746 00:48:10,036 --> 00:48:12,556 Speaker 2: Has that relationship changed over the years. Do you think 747 00:48:12,756 --> 00:48:16,036 Speaker 2: have you taken on some of your each other's characteristics? 748 00:48:17,156 --> 00:48:21,796 Speaker 3: Probably no, Corn saying no. Now, Corn's too stubborn for that. 749 00:48:21,996 --> 00:48:24,756 Speaker 3: Corn is so stubborn. Korn's way more stubborn than I am. 750 00:48:25,556 --> 00:48:29,916 Speaker 3: I'm impulsive and Corn is stubborn. I would have said yes, 751 00:48:29,916 --> 00:48:33,836 Speaker 3: but Corn saying no, and then I just default and say. 752 00:48:33,796 --> 00:48:37,116 Speaker 2: Korn's right, Well, she is the oil. 753 00:48:37,516 --> 00:48:39,836 Speaker 3: So there's yeah, you just you don't mess with that. 754 00:48:40,756 --> 00:48:42,796 Speaker 2: You'd a great You used a phrase a couple of 755 00:48:42,796 --> 00:48:44,956 Speaker 2: times in your book, but the one I remember was 756 00:48:45,956 --> 00:48:48,036 Speaker 2: I described boldness. She was bold. 757 00:48:48,876 --> 00:48:52,276 Speaker 3: Yes, that is very much us. Like I am such 758 00:48:52,316 --> 00:48:58,396 Speaker 3: a meta person. I feel like I'm always dancing around it, circumlocutionary. 759 00:48:58,676 --> 00:49:02,756 Speaker 3: Korn's just right there, She's right at the center of it. 760 00:49:02,836 --> 00:49:05,276 Speaker 3: I think. Also in my book, an example is when 761 00:49:05,316 --> 00:49:09,716 Speaker 3: we were coming up with titles for The Wood and 762 00:49:09,796 --> 00:49:13,236 Speaker 3: I had a list of like fifteen and Korn just said, 763 00:49:13,676 --> 00:49:17,436 Speaker 3: let's just call the Woods. And I was like, yeah, right, okay, 764 00:49:17,516 --> 00:49:20,036 Speaker 3: that's of course. Why are we trying to do something 765 00:49:20,316 --> 00:49:22,396 Speaker 3: other than that. It's just that's the right. 766 00:49:22,276 --> 00:49:25,636 Speaker 2: Answer, and it's the final answer. 767 00:49:25,796 --> 00:49:26,956 Speaker 3: Final answer. Yep. 768 00:49:27,996 --> 00:49:31,436 Speaker 2: Well, the right combination of opposite is perfection. I think 769 00:49:31,476 --> 00:49:34,636 Speaker 2: this album is the right combination of opposites. I think 770 00:49:34,636 --> 00:49:37,676 Speaker 2: it's just fabulous. So thank you so much for taking 771 00:49:37,716 --> 00:49:38,516 Speaker 2: all this time. 772 00:49:38,636 --> 00:49:39,636 Speaker 3: Thanks for having us on. 773 00:49:42,716 --> 00:49:46,236 Speaker 1: Thanks to Carry Brownstein and Coreyn Tucker of Slater Kenny, 774 00:49:46,716 --> 00:49:49,076 Speaker 1: their new album Little Rope, along with all of our 775 00:49:49,156 --> 00:49:51,916 Speaker 1: other favorite Slater Kenny songs, are streaming on a playlist 776 00:49:52,036 --> 00:49:56,156 Speaker 1: be made at broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to 777 00:49:56,156 --> 00:49:59,636 Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, 778 00:49:59,676 --> 00:50:02,796 Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You 779 00:50:02,796 --> 00:50:06,196 Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record 780 00:50:06,236 --> 00:50:09,116 Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing health 781 00:50:09,236 --> 00:50:13,036 Speaker 1: from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. 782 00:50:13,716 --> 00:50:17,236 Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you 783 00:50:17,276 --> 00:50:20,556 Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to 784 00:50:20,716 --> 00:50:24,676 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers 785 00:50:24,676 --> 00:50:27,796 Speaker 1: bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine 786 00:50:27,836 --> 00:50:31,796 Speaker 1: a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast subscriptions, 787 00:50:32,596 --> 00:50:35,196 Speaker 1: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, 788 00:50:35,276 --> 00:50:38,076 Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app Our theme music's 789 00:50:38,076 --> 00:50:40,156 Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.