1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: Disgraceland is a production of Double Elvis. This is a 2 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: story about heartbreakers. It's about a hotel room and a 3 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: body on the floor. It's about corporate rock dreams and 4 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: punk junkie nightmares and the distance between the two. It's 5 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: also a story about conspiracy theories and rock and roll myths, 6 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: about self fulfilling prophecies and stacks of missing cash. This 7 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: is a story about Johnny Thunders, which means it's a 8 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: story about great music, some of the greatest and most 9 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: authentic music to come out of the punk era and beyond. 10 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: Unlike that clip I played for you at the top 11 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: of the show that wasn't great music. That was a 12 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: preset loop for my melotron called second Line Stompbox MK. 13 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 2: Two. 14 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: I played you that loop because I can afford the 15 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: rights to You're in Love by Wilson Phillips. And why 16 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: would I play you that specific slice of Nepo Cheese? 17 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: Could I afford it? Because that was the number one 18 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: song in America on April twenty third, nineteen ninety one, 19 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: And that was the day that Johnny Thunders was found 20 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: dead in a New Orleans hotel, his money, guitars, and 21 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: clothes gone and the rest of the story already beginning 22 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: to write itself. On this episode rock and Roll myths, 23 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecies, Heartbreakers, Junkies, and Johnny Thunders. 24 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: I'm Jake Brennan. 25 00:01:50,000 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: In this this disgrace slant. When you think of a 26 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: musical icon who was the walking, talking definition of how 27 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: rock and roll looks and sounds and feels, which is 28 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: to say, raw, switchblade sharp and effortlessly cool, and who 29 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: also possessed both street tough swagger and deep vulnerability, you 30 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: think of Johnny Thunders. He's your favorite rock and rollers, 31 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: favorite rock and roller, whether you're down with Joe Strummer, 32 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: Nikki six, Paul Westerberg, the Cults, Billy duffy Ear, social distortions, 33 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: Mike Ness first in The New York Dolls and later 34 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: in The Heartbreakers. In his own solo career, Johnny Thunder's 35 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: distilled rebellion attitude and god given musicality down to a 36 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: high I proof red hot essence. But one of the 37 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: reasons that Johnny Thunders was this mythic avatar was because 38 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: he embodied the whole package of rock and roll, the good, 39 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly. He was an addict he 40 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: was self destructive, and at the age of thirty eight, 41 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: he was dead. Chapter one. The body in Room thirty seven. 42 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: The Saint Peter House hotel, these days known as the 43 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: Inn on Saint Peter sits on the corner of Saint 44 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: Peter in Burgundy Streets, in the heart of the French 45 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: Quarter in New Orleans. Built in the year eighteen oh five, 46 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: it's a quintessential Crescent City building with Spanish style architecture 47 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: and a wrap around second floor balcony. It was here 48 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: on the afternoon of Tuesday, April twenty third, nineteen ninety one, 49 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: that housekeeper Mildred Coleman was going from room to room 50 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: making her usual rounds, swapping out towels and trash bags 51 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: and so on. At three point thirty she arrived in 52 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: Room thirty seven. She knocked on the door. There was 53 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: no answer. The room number stuck out in her mind 54 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 1: because earlier that morning, at around eight am, the front 55 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: desk clerk had called Room thirty seven after a series 56 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: of loud, disturbing noises. The occupant had answered and the 57 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: noises had ceased, But now there was an absence of 58 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: sound coming from inside the room. Mildred knocked again and nothing. Now, 59 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: this wasn't unusual. Hotel guests were in and out at 60 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: all times of the day and night. So she pulled 61 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: a key from her pocket, slid it into the lock, 62 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: turned the handle, and pushed the door open. The rank 63 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: smell of sweat hit her nose first, and there was 64 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: something else too, something rancid, but she couldn't put her 65 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: finger on it. The room was a mess, the sheet's 66 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: been ripped for the and what appeared to be empty 67 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: prescription pill bottles were strewn across the floor. And then 68 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: Mildred saw him, the occupant of Room thirty seven one, 69 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: John Gonzale aka Johnny Thunders. He was lying on the floor, 70 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: stuffed halfway under the dresser. His body was bent into 71 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: a shape like the letter U. Mildred gasped instinctively, throwing 72 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: her hand up to cover her mouth, and the next 73 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: thing she knew, she was screaming. Across the street from 74 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: the Saint Peter House, singer songwriter Willie Deville, formerly of 75 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: CBGB Mainstay's mate, Deville, sat on a stoop outside his apartment, 76 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: strumming an acoustic guitar. Just one year prior, Willy had 77 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: beaten Johnny to his dream of coming to New Orleans 78 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: making an R and B record with local musicians. But 79 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: now it was Johnny's turn to beat Willie. Johnny Thunders 80 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: over here, burning out while Willie Deville merely faded away. 81 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: Willie watched as police cars began flooding the corner outside 82 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: the hotel. A short while later, the cops carried Johnny's 83 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: body out. Willie had seen a lot of things, but 84 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: he'd never seen a body contorted into a shape like 85 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: a pretzel before. It was so undignified. But Willy knew 86 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: his friend deserved more, and he also knew that rock 87 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: and roll was nothing without its myths. So when the 88 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: local press started to sniff around when they asked questions, 89 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: Willie Deville lied and told them that Johnny had died 90 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: with his guitar in his hands. In reality, though Johnny 91 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: Thunder's guitar was gone, Johnny had been robbed blind, so 92 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: it appeared. But New Orleans PD they didn't care about 93 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: a dead junkie's missing stuff. All they were interested in 94 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: was closing the case and closing it fast. 95 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: So that's what they did. 96 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: Six days later, on April twenty ninth, the City Corners 97 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: Office investigator John Gagliano told the Associated Press that Johnny 98 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: Thunders had died of an overdose due to the quantity 99 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: of methadone and cocaine found in his body. In their eyes, 100 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: it was open and shut. A drug fiend is as 101 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: a drug fiend does, and all of that, and some 102 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: of Johnny's friends, like Willie Deville across the street with 103 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: his guitar, weren't all that surprised. For others, however, not 104 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: only was the CoP's conclusion wrong, it had all the 105 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: signs of a cover up. And that's when the truth 106 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: came calling. Dede Ramone picked up the phone while scratching 107 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: away at his BedHead. His bleary eyes could hardly make 108 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: out the time of the clock. Yeah, he snarled into 109 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: the receiver. Dede. A voice was saying, it's Stevie. At 110 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: this Dede Ramone sobered up a bit enough to comprehend 111 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: what Stevie was about. 112 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: To tell him. 113 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: Stevie was the other guitarist in Johnny Thunder's a touring 114 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: band at the time of Johnny's death, and Deede knew 115 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: he was hurting. Dede, for one, had his own complicated 116 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: relationship with Johnny thunders over the years. Years ago, that 117 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: little shit had stolen d De's song Chinese Rocks, made 118 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: it his own, and then when he was deep into 119 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: the throes of junkie addiction, Johnny thunders well, he reverted 120 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: to junkie compulsions like stealing Dde's shit so that he 121 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: could sell it for more drugs. And at some point 122 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: d d Ramone had just had enough, so he poured 123 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: Dreno or chlorox or some chemical cleaning agent he couldn't 124 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: exactly remember. He poured it all over Johnny's stuff, and 125 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: then he pissed on Johnny's clothes, and then the piece 126 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: there was the stalls. He took Johnny's guitar, one of 127 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: those cheap less Paul Juniors that he loved so much, 128 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: and he broke that fucker in half. These were the 129 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: thoughts running through d de Ramon's head as Stevie was 130 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: telling him all about what had happened at the hotel 131 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: in New Orleans. That when the cops got to Johnny's room, 132 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: all they found were empty bottles of methadone and a 133 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: single syringe floating in the toilet. Everything else was gone, 134 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: his guitars, those nice silk suits that he bought on 135 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: the road, his drugs, his passport, and here was the 136 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: real kicker. Thousands of dollars in cash just disappeared. We're 137 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: talking ten, maybe twenty thousand dollars total. And the pieces 138 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: of trash who stole all those things, These vultures, disguised 139 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: as so called friends. They made Johnny Thunders their mark. 140 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: As soon as he rolled into town wearing those nice threads, 141 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: his pockets lined with money, they took him out, stroked 142 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: his ego, This punk poet laureate who never really got 143 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: his due, especially here in the States, but he got 144 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: it that night. And once they gave it to him. 145 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: Once they lulled him into a doped up complacency with 146 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: hero worship and drugs, that's when they went in for 147 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: the kill. It was true what the cops said. Johnny 148 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: did die of an overdose, but the overdose wasn't delivered 149 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: by his own hand, and he was given a hot 150 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: shot by some thieving degenerates. To put it plainly, Johnny 151 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: Thunders was murdered. Chapter two, Born to Lose, Tom Petty 152 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: and the Heartbreakers. Who the fuck are those guys? Were 153 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: the heartbreakers? Jerry Nolan, one of Johnny's closest friends and 154 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: his drummer, first in the New York Dolls and now 155 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: a member of Johnny's new band, the Heartbreakers. The original 156 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: Heartbreakers that is not that big toothy Tom Petty, his 157 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: so called Heartbreakers. Jerry Nolan. He was reading all about 158 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: this Tom Petty character in the paper and getting more 159 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: and more pissed off with every word. It was nineteen 160 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: seventy six. Johnny Thunder's Heartbreakers were everything that Tom Petty's 161 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: Heartbreakers were not. 162 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 2: Tom Petty was. 163 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: The corporate rock dream. Johnny Thunders was the punk junkie nightmare. 164 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: No one wanted to sign Johnny Thunders and his band. 165 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: They were dopers and dropouts and weren't to be trusted. 166 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: They missed shows, they shot heroin. Never mind, they were 167 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: playing some of the most thrilling rock and roll in 168 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: the world at the time. As one critic wrote in 169 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: the UK after seeing a Heartbreakers show, quote, the band 170 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: plays rock and roll like guns, fire bullets, like steamrollers, 171 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: flat and tarmac like thunder, rolls like trees, fall like 172 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: hell like you've never heard before. Unquote. It's ironic because 173 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: besides the music, all the other things that made Johnny 174 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: Thunders and the Heartbreakers super authentic were the same things 175 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: that made them a bad investment. They were, as Johnny 176 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: sang in one of his trademark songs, born to Lose, 177 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: Tom Petty clearly could not relate Tom Petty, Jerry Nolan said, 178 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: was born to be punched. Fuck it, Johnny said, let's 179 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: call ourselves the junkies instead. Are you fucking kidding man? 180 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: We'll never get airplay with a name like that. Who 181 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: needs airplay? Johnny left, I'd rather get a reaction, getting 182 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: a reaction, getting attention. That was the true meaning of 183 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: rock and roll in the eyes of Johnny Thunders. And 184 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: when attention finally came, it didn't come from America, but 185 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: instead from across the pond, first in the form of 186 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: the Sex Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren, who got the Heartbreakers 187 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: booked on a tour with The Pistols and The Clash, 188 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: and then via Chris Stamp and Kim Lambert, the Who's 189 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: former managers who signed the Heartbreakers to their labeled track records. 190 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: Johnny and Jerry, along with guitarist Walter Lore and bassist 191 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: Billy Rath, who'd replaced original member Richard Hell, soon found 192 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: them in a London recording studio making a record. That record, LAMF, 193 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: which was a notorious New York City graffiti tag that 194 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: Warren gangs used to scare each other off with and 195 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: which stood for like a motherfucker, which is also permanently 196 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: inked on my arm. But I digress. LAMF should have 197 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: been one of the biggest records of the newly emerging 198 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: punk rock movement when it was released in nineteen seventy seven. 199 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: I mean it is one of the greatest, but it's 200 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: not as ubiquitous as records by the Ramones, the Clash 201 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: and the Pistols. And there are a few reasons for 202 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: this one. The band wrestled over how the record should sound, 203 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: which resulted in a really muddy mix when it was 204 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: first pressed two LAMF never got a US release. In fact, 205 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't issued stateside until just a few years ago. 206 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: In three Track Records went bankrupt shortly after the album 207 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: hit store shelves. Unlike Tom Petty's Heartbreakers, Johnny Thunder's Heartbreakers 208 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: did not survive. They were over before Tom's second album 209 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: even dropped, and so Johnny Gonzale, a one time teenage 210 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: baseball prodigy from queens who gave the cold shoulder to 211 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: Major league scouts so that he could court a life 212 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: out on the skids, where self sabotage was a badge 213 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: of honor, a boy who re christened himself Johnny Thunders, 214 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: anome de rock stolen either from a DC Comics character 215 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: or a Kink song, depending on which version of the 216 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: story speaks to you today. The Great Johnny Thunders made 217 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: his equally great solo debut album, So Alone, in nineteen 218 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: seventy eight, at the age of twenty five. So Alone 219 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: is tremendous stuff. It's got instant classic original songs like 220 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: you Can't Put your Arms Around a Memory. It's got 221 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: covers of tunes by surf and girl groups like the 222 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: Chantas and the Shangri Las, and it's got supporting performances 223 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: by who's who of rockers at the time, the Pretender's 224 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: Chrissy Hine, the Sexpistols, Steve Jones and Paul Cook, Did 225 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: Lizzie's Phil Linet, and Steve Marriott from The Small Faces 226 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: in Humble Pie. But like Lamf before it, So Alone 227 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: never got released in the States, and despite the noise 228 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: being made out on the margins by punks like Johnny 229 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: Thunders nineteen seventy eight was actually ruled by the Beg's 230 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: Saturday Night Fever in Billy Joel's fifty second Street, at 231 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: least in America. Whatever America could have its Tom Petty, 232 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: it's Billy fucking Joel, and it could have John Travolta 233 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: peacocking down the streets of Brooklyn. Johnny Thunders meanwhile, went 234 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: looking for action in a part of the world that 235 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: paid him some well deserved respect, and that paid him 236 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: in cash. And it was there that Johnny wasn't just 237 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: a hot ticket, he was a front page news nineteen 238 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: eighty two, Stockholm suite. Johnny Thunders tried to ration out 239 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: the dope so that it would last him three four 240 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: days at least. But this time, just like every other time, 241 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: he couldn't help himself. He did it all, and doing 242 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: it all doesn't mean he to too much. He knew 243 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: what he could tolerate, exactly how much would get him 244 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: off without taking him too far over the edge. But 245 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: now as the plane hit the tarmac, he was no 246 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: longer holding, and none of the other guys in the 247 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: band were either. He downed the last of the methadone 248 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: like a cold cherry coke. And speaking of coke, coke, 249 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: the powdered kind that was gone too. Someone had told 250 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: him that Sweden put little stashes of valume in the 251 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: medical emergency boxes on airplanes. So now he and his 252 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: bass player at the moment, Luigi Scortia, were trying to 253 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: break open the little red box like a couple of 254 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: dope sit prospectors at the head of a rumored gold mine. 255 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: And they were doing this despite the very loud and 256 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: urgent protesting of the stewardesses who were reminding Johnny and 257 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: Luigi and broken English, the passengers were not allowed to 258 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: tamper with the emergency kits. The stewardess has figured something 259 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: like this would happen. Johnny Thunders had been in the 260 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: country for only a few days and already he was 261 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: the talk of the town, as they say, but not 262 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: in a good way. The local papers set it all 263 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: A drugged human wreck, read one such headline, and stark 264 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: black faunt and another simply said burnt out wasted. Just 265 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: days earlier, Johnny had performed on a popular primetime Swedish 266 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: television show. 267 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: He showed up three hours late to. 268 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: The taping, only to stumble around the stage, slithering, slouching, 269 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: sliding into the audience and slurring his words. And there 270 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: was a tinge of resentment, and every single word he 271 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: spoke and every movie made as if he'd forgotten that 272 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: this country, this show, this packed house, unlike some other 273 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: places back home, they all actually wanted him there. It 274 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: was like he looked out at the crowd and suddenly 275 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: was somewhere else. The punk junkie nightmare was never ending, 276 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: and now here was Johnny Thunders, the villain and the victim, 277 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: stepping off the plane in Stockholm, thinking he was about 278 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: to go play another show, only to walk into the 279 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: arms of several impatient police officers who had been no 280 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: id ahead of time by the concerned stewardesses. Johnny had 281 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: no dope, not even that elusive, fabled stash of value, 282 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: and if they were taking him away, then the tour 283 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: was canceled for sure, which meant Lesto coming in. All while, 284 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: that other more famous heartbreaker, Tom Petty, was writing a 285 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: big video hit on the Idiot Box with his song 286 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: you Got Lucky. Johnny laughed just thinking about it. He 287 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: had Tom, You're one lucky fuck one lucky MTV approved 288 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: fuck and Johnny Johnny was born to lose. That wasn't 289 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: just a song or a manifesto. It was a prophecy, 290 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: but was it a self fulfilling one? As the weeks 291 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: and months and years rolled on. That's what audiences wanted 292 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: to know, and that's what drew them to the shows. 293 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: More than Johnny's talent, or his legend or any of it. 294 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 1: They wanted to be there when it happened, watching it 295 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: like a car wreck in slow motion, Watched Johnny Lou's control, 296 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: watched Johnny fall down, Watch Johnny die, We'll be right 297 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: back after this. We're We're, We're Chapter three, Hard Times 298 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: and the Big Easy. Johnny Thunders was in Japan, but 299 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: he was dreaming of New Orleans. He was playing his 300 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: friend Willie Deville's latest album, Victory Mixture on repeat on 301 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: the tour bus. Willy made the record in New Orleans 302 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: with local legends like Doctor John Alan Hussaint and the Meters. 303 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: You never know that the guy singing these tunes got 304 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: to start playing grimy New York institutions like Maxis Kansas City. 305 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: Willy sounded like the real article, and what he created 306 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: with this record was a exactly the sort of thing 307 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: that Johnny had wanted to do for some time now, 308 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: but Johnny had no time at the present. He was 309 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: preparing to record an album of sixties cover songs with 310 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: some Japanese musicians, and he had plans for an acoustic 311 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: album as well. He continued to use but once again 312 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: as supply had run out and he became so dope 313 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: sick that he had to be checked into a hospital 314 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: in Tokyo. If doctors there saw the lump on his neck, 315 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: they didn't say anything. People were used to seeing all 316 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: kinds of abnormalities on Johnny's skin. Heartbreaker Walter Lore once 317 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: said that Johnny's arms and legs were covered in so 318 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: many track marks that they looked like pizza slices, which 319 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: means that some strange new lump was going to have 320 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: to work overtime to really stand out as a problem. Besides, 321 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: Johnny had other problems like this need for a fix. 322 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: He hopped a. 323 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: Plane to London, picked up a prescription of methadone that 324 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: was waiting for him, and then it was on to Germany, 325 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: where he was booked for a couple of shows. When 326 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: all was said and done, he had a decent amount 327 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: of cash on his person, somewhere between ten and twenty grand, 328 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: and he also had a little time off, and as 329 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: the musical Gumbo of Willie Deville played once more on 330 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: the tour bus's stereo, Johnny knew exactly where he was 331 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: going to go next. By the time Johnny Thunders arrived 332 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: in New Orleans for what would be the last night 333 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: of his life, the evening of April twenty second, nineteen 334 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 1: ninety one, he was both everywhere and nowhere. His style, 335 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: his swagger, even just the way he held the guitar 336 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: was reflected across the entirety of the rock spectrum, from 337 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: Guns n' roses is he straddling to Johnny Marv the 338 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: Smiths to a veritable Rogues gallery of big hair having 339 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: charp mainstays like Motley Crue and Bon Jovi. But although 340 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: his influence ran deep, it ran silent too. Few knew 341 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: that Johnny Thunders was such an inspiration on nineteen eighties 342 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: and nineteen nineties rock and roll, and fewer still knew 343 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: his name. It wasn't for lack of trying. At one 344 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: point he formed a new group called Gang War with 345 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: Wayne Kramer, the MC five, who was fresh out of 346 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: federal prison at the time, and later he assembled another 347 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: group called Kosinostra with a few of his former heartbreakers, 348 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: and neither band lasted. The simple reason this brother Wayne Kramer, 349 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: once put it was due to the fact that quote 350 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: Johnny was impossible to work with because he had another 351 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: job that was more important Unquote. Then that other job 352 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: was his dope habit. It kept him scrambling from playing 353 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: to plane, gig to gig, one cash payment to the next, 354 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: always cash. It kept him ignoring the sores, the lumps, 355 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: the pains that had at this point become commonplace. And 356 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: when the money stopped coming in for a spell, when 357 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: he blew it all on another cold, sweaty palmful of 358 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: handshake drugs, he got desperate, and desperation made him ugly. 359 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: It's been alleged that he once hunted down as a 360 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: strange wife Julie, who had long since bailed with their 361 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: two kids and who was also pregnant with a third, 362 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: and when he found her, he beat her up and 363 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: stole her welfare money. 364 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: That's how low. 365 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: His other job made him go, and tonight Johnny was 366 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: going even lower. Tonight he was going to find out 367 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,239 Speaker 1: that there really was a bottom, and when he hit it, 368 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: there was no coming back. Johnny thunder Is bellied up 369 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: to the bar and ordered a brandy. He could hear 370 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: someone singing outside, some random reveler out there in the 371 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: middle of the street. From elsewhere. The strains of a 372 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: Dixieland jazz band floated on in the wind. That's what 373 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: he loved about this town. Music ran through New Orleans's blood. 374 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: New York was similar, but his hometown had become hazardous 375 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: to his health. He knew all the right places to 376 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: get all the wrong things in New York, and he 377 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: knew exactly who to talk to for a bendal of 378 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: this or a vial of that. Here in New Orleans, 379 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: like in Japan in Germany, the temptation wasn't so easy 380 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: to locate, or so went the magical thinking of the 381 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: punk junkie nightmare. Because temptation vice bad decisions of all kinds. 382 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: Johnny attracted these things like a magnet. The all black 383 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: city was wearing only emphasized his ghastly white skin, and 384 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: the sweat running down the sides of his gaunt face 385 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: told a story of desire, submission, and detachment. He turned 386 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: to his left, and then to his right, and here 387 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: was temptation and vice sitting on either side of him 388 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: at the bar. Here were two brothers, Mark and Michael Rix, 389 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: two locals Johnny had met when he checked into the 390 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: Saint Peter House Hotel. Two guys now getting shit faced 391 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: with the flush, Johnny thunders they weren't alone. The brother's friend, Stacy, 392 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: Michael's X, came along to see where the knight would 393 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: take them. She had seventy bucks burning a hole in 394 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: her pocket from turning tricks earlier that day on the 395 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 1: seatier side of the French Corner, the same side they 396 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: were all on. Now, decide where you could get whatever 397 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: you wanted for a couple of bucks, For a few 398 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: bucks more, you could get more than you ever thought possible. 399 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: Johnny knocked back the rest of his brandy, slammed the 400 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: glass down on the dirty bar in front of him, 401 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: and turned to his new friends. Where to next Pat 402 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: O'Brien's Kagan's. The night was young. In fact, in Johnny's 403 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: line of work, there was only night. Hours later, once 404 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: the sun had come up and the shadows of temptation 405 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: advice had disappeared for yet another day, Johnny Thunders was 406 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: dead almost immediately. There was pushback on the official party 407 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: line provided by New Orleans police that, based on the 408 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: amount of methadone and cocaine and Johnny's body, it was 409 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: a clear overdose, which is what the City Corner's Office 410 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: investigator John Gagliano told the public at a press conference 411 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: six days after Johnny's death. For many in Johnny's circle, 412 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: including his one time guitarist Stevie Clayson, who allegedly called 413 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: did Ramon shortly after Johnny's body was found, the cops 414 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: were full of shit. Reported sightings of the Ricks brothers, 415 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: Mark and Michael walking around New Orleans wearing Johnny's clothes 416 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: only fueled the going theory that Johnny had been given 417 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: a hot shot by low level street criminals so that 418 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: they could rob him. But Mark and Michael Rix have 419 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: been interviewed by the police and were subsequently released from custody. 420 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: In The Times, Picky un stated in an article the 421 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: contrary to the word on the street, not everything was 422 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: taken from Johnny's room. In fact, some of his guitars, 423 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: as well as some of his cash, were still there. 424 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: Weeks later. However, on May eighteenth, the City of New 425 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: Orleans released their full autopsy in toxicology results, and what 426 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: was found turned the whole thing upside down. Now, those 427 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: official results did prove that Johnny had tested positive for 428 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: methadone and kociine, but the revelation here was that there 429 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: were only small amounts of both, nowhere near the levels 430 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: that would have been necessary to kill him. By releasing 431 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: the full results, the city had effectively contradicted itself, rendering 432 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: John Gagliano's conclusion of overdose to be nothing short of impossible. 433 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: So if it wasn't a hot shot, then how was 434 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: Johnny thunders murdered. LSD say he was drunk, a little 435 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: fucked up on methadone and coke and then was knowingly 436 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: or unknowingly given a dose of acid. The interaction between 437 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: the drugs could have caused him to panic, his heart 438 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: to race, triggering some sort of cardiovascular stress that pushed 439 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: him over the edge again. According to De d Ramone, 440 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: the LSD hot shot, for lack of a better term, 441 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: is what Stevie Classen told him had been administered to 442 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: Johnny that night, and this theory was stoked when just 443 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: a short while later, in early nineteen ninety two New 444 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: Orleans cops picked up Michael Rix, who was charged and 445 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: convicted a first degree robbery after he pulled a gun 446 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: on some Taurus in the French Quarter who had refused 447 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: to buy drugs offer. And what exactly was Michael Rix 448 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: pushing at the time of his arrest? 449 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: LSD all Right, guys. 450 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: Earlier in this episode, I briefly mentioned Gang War, the 451 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: doom punk slash rock and roll hybrid band that Johnny 452 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: Thunders formed with Wayne Kramer, the MC five. We didn't 453 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: have enough time here in this full episode to get 454 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: into the story of Gang War, how they came to be, 455 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: why they burned out so fast, and why they had 456 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: to be escorted by police out of the city of Boston. 457 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: And just why on earth the guy like Wayne Kramer 458 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: who had just gotten out of prison and was looking 459 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: for a second chance, Just why would he hang that 460 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: second chance around a gun that so many could see 461 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: was already gone. You can hear all about this in 462 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: this week's brand new mini episode of Disgray Sand, but 463 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: to do that, you have to be an all Access member. 464 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: Just go to disgrayslandpod dot com to learn more and 465 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: to sign up and start listening right now. All right, 466 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: let's get back to our story on Johnny Thunders. 467 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: Chapter four, Pirate Love. 468 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: When he died, Johnny Thunders was still the living embodiment 469 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: of the rock and roller, only now, instead of representing 470 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: the promise of rebellion and liberation that lie at the 471 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: core of the rock and roll heart, he was the 472 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: flip side of that particular coin. He was the haggard, 473 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: pitiful result of all the rebelliousness, the inevitable tragedy, the 474 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: very thing that every teenager's mother feared would come to 475 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: pass when their boy ran off to join a band 476 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: on the Lower East Side or wherever, a cautionary tale 477 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: dumped on the doorstep of history by the addictions at Plate. 478 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: But there was more to Johnny Thunders than that, and 479 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: there it was in his autopsy. Specifically, the autopsy report 480 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: revealed that Johnny had been suffering from cirrhosis from lymphoma, 481 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: a pulmonary edema, and leukemia. The fact that Johnny Thunders 482 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: had leukemia was later confirmed by one of his final girlfriends, 483 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: a Swedish hairdresser named Suzanne Blonquist. Johnny and Suzanne had 484 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: one daughter together, and shortly after her birth in nineteen 485 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: eighty seven, Suzanne said that Johnny was diagnosed with the 486 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: deadly disease. This would explain the lump on his neck, 487 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: and honestly, it explains what happened in room thirty seven 488 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: of the Saint Peter House Hotel in New Orleans. Johnny's body, 489 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: his immune system had been systematically weakened by illness, by cancer, 490 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: and by chronic hard drug use, and so the most 491 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: likely scenario is not that he was given a debilitating 492 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: dose of LSD that led to his death, but simply 493 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: that his body finally gave out, helped along by non 494 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: lee full amounts of methadone and cocaine. Was he hanging 495 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: out with certain members of the New Orleans underworld who 496 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: may have stolen from a memphro who took his last breath? Yes? 497 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: Did the cops use the overdose angle to investigate a 498 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: little less than they should have? Probably, But was Johnny 499 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: Thunders murdered? No? Johnny Thunders was consumed by his lifestyle, 500 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: the bad and the good, walking the walk, walking that 501 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: razor's edge between self mythology and self destruction. That's where 502 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: he lived and what he sang about in songs like 503 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: One Track Mind and pirate love, which next to born 504 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: to Lose was the unofficial Johnny Thunder's anthem for those 505 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: who refused to compromise themselves creatively or authentically. The conspiracy 506 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: theories that said he was murdered only proved that others 507 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: expected him to go out in a blaze, a knife, 508 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: a needle, a gun, a hotshot, something dramatic and something 509 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: befitting the punk junkie nightmare he turned his life into. 510 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: The truth, however, is much quieter than all that, and 511 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: it's much sadder too. His body just couldn't carry the 512 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: weight of his myth any longer. And in the end, 513 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: that's the part that couldn't be stolen, Like his clothes 514 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: and his guitars and his money. Johnny Thunders died in 515 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: Room thirty seven, in disgrace and so alone. But the 516 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: myth he created walk right out the door like a. 517 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 3: Motherfucker' Jake Brennan, and this his disgraceland. 518 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: All right, guys, thanks for riding along with us and 519 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: Johnny Thunder's here. 520 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 2: This is a weird story. 521 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: From just one of the greatest eras of rock and roll, 522 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: the first era. 523 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: Of punk rock. 524 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: You can only listen to one generation punk rock band 525 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: on the next road trip you take. Who's it gonna be? 526 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: Is it gonna be Johnny Thunders and the New York Dolls? 527 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: Is it gonna be the Sex Pistols? Is it gonna 528 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: be The Clash? Who else? 529 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 2: Television talking heads? 530 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: Those seventies sort of first wave punk rock groups. Which 531 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: one do you ride hardist? For? Give me call six 532 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: one seven nine oh six six sixty three eight. Let 533 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: me know which first generation punk artists you love the 534 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: most and why? Hit me up voicemail and text email 535 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: at Disgrace lamb pod. Guys, you want more Disgrace and 536 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: you want to add free Disgraceland. You want those extra 537 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: mini episodes like this story we have on Johnny and 538 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: Wayne Cramer coming up. Gotta get the mini episode content. 539 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: Gotta go to Patreon, Gotta go to Apple Podcast. To 540 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: become an all access member of Disgraceland. You get ad 541 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,479 Speaker 1: free listening, you get extra exclusive content. Go to disgrace 542 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: lampod dot com sign up. All right here comes from credits. 543 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly and is produced in 544 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: partnership with Double Elvis. Credits for this episode can be 545 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: found on the show notes page at disgracelampod dot dot com, 546 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: Rate and review the show, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, 547 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: and Facebook at disgracelantpod and on YouTube at YouTube dot com, 548 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: slash at Disgracelandpod, rock a Rolla, He's 549 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 3: A bad down man.