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Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Adamized Studios.

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Speaker 2: There is nothing better than a friend you love, falling

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Speaker 2: in love with someone you love. When my friend Salmon

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Speaker 2: Rushdie brought Eliza Griffiths into our lives, we were happy

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Speaker 2: for them and happy for us too. Eliza's smart, she's funny,

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Speaker 2: and she's kind. She's a beautiful poet. A photographer whose

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Speaker 2: black and white images evoked for me. Drothia Lang promises

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Speaker 2: her work of fiction just published, the Story of a Family,

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Speaker 2: the story of the Civil Rights movement, a story of

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Speaker 2: food at the table and food in the kitchen. For

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Speaker 2: food is important to Eliza, and today in the River Cafe,

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Speaker 2: we will talk together about friendship, memory, writing and love.

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Speaker 2: So thank you for being here, So.

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Speaker 3: Good to see you, So.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 2: And you've just been in the River Cafe kitchen and

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Speaker 2: what were you making?

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Speaker 5: I was making this wonderful dish with broad beans and

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Speaker 5: pasto and garlic bread and it was heaven.

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Speaker 4: It was so delicious.

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Speaker 5: I just want to go back to the kitchen and eat.

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Speaker 4: It looks so yummy right now. That's the color is so.

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Speaker 3: Pretty, really bright.

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Speaker 4: I love the green. It's good.

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Speaker 3: That should be enough.

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Speaker 6: Would you like to taste some at this point?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, I'm not shy about tasting anything.

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Speaker 3: It's a dish that we make when the broadbeans are

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Speaker 3: in season.

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Speaker 2: You can't really do it when they're kind of older

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Speaker 2: and more floury.

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Speaker 4: I like cooking by season.

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Speaker 5: There's something very special about what's available and what you

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Speaker 5: get to look forward to.

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Speaker 4: When the time comes.

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Speaker 5: And I'm used to cooking for like six people or

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Speaker 5: more in my family, so I love making, you know,

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Speaker 5: large pots of things and a lot of food. And

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Speaker 5: even now sometimes my husband is like, don't make so much.

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Speaker 5: We're going to eat this for five or six days.

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Speaker 6: Just cook for two.

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Speaker 3: Is that true? Someone?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, When when Eliza cooks dinner, when everybody's finished eating

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Speaker 8: a lot, it looks it looks like it hasn't been touched,

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Speaker 8: and then we have it for the next week.

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Speaker 3: Do you ever do you ever cook together?

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Speaker 8: I'm the eater.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the eater. Yeah, he's a good eater.

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Speaker 2: God yeah, yeah, yeah, you need a good eater.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, but yeah, she When when Eliza decides to cook,

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Speaker 8: which isn't always, but when she decides to do it,

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Speaker 8: it's always a treaty.

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Speaker 3: I imagine, do you go to market?

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Speaker 5: I used to go to markets more frequently. I used

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Speaker 5: to walk down to Union Square and go to the market,

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Speaker 5: and you know, walk to different places to get specific things.

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Speaker 5: And growing up with my mother, she had you know,

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Speaker 5: the butcher we went to, and then she went to

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Speaker 5: a different place for her flowers. And sometimes we go

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Speaker 5: as far as Philadelphia just for a certain spice sharp

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Speaker 5: to get spices. I have a lot of very vivid

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Speaker 5: memories of you know, you just don't go into one place.

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Speaker 5: You know, she would have neighbors who would bake bread,

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Speaker 5: and so she would put in her bread order or something.

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Speaker 6: So where was this?

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Speaker 3: Where did you grow up?

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Speaker 5: I I grew up in Wilmington, Delaware, between Wilmington, Delaware

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Speaker 5: and Washington, d C.

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Speaker 4: So in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 5: Of course, there's just so much culture and so many

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Speaker 5: kinds of food. You know, Ethiopian food, and you know

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Speaker 5: French and Italian. It's I mean, all of these different things.

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Speaker 5: And you know my mother's kitchen, she would really experiment

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Speaker 5: with cooking different types of food.

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Speaker 3: So tell me about her. Was she born in the

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Speaker 3: United States?

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Speaker 4: She was born in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 5: And she when she married my father, they moved to Wilmington,

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Speaker 5: and my mother I think, you know, one of her

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Speaker 5: her gifts as an artist was cooking.

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Speaker 4: I mean she.

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Speaker 5: You know, it was a classroom to be in her

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Speaker 5: you know kitchen, that would be the place.

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Speaker 4: Where so many things would happen.

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Speaker 5: But she would experiment with food, she would find recipes.

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Speaker 5: She actually did classes for cooking. She had a whole

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Speaker 5: chef's uniform she would put on, and she had some

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Speaker 5: really wonderful her bread pudding recipes.

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Speaker 4: She won prizes for.

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Speaker 3: You know what it was. What did she put in

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Speaker 3: the bread pudding?

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Speaker 5: She put a special ingredient that only myself and my

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Speaker 5: three siblings can ever tell. So it was kind of lockdown.

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Speaker 5: Although I can't bear to eat bread pudding now because

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Speaker 5: in makes me think of her too much.

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Speaker 4: I've been spoiled by her bread.

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Speaker 5: Pudding, and so whenever I see it on the menu,

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Speaker 5: I just immediately see her face the saying no one's

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Speaker 5: bread pudding is as good as mine, and her pretty

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Speaker 5: much being right about that.

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Speaker 2: That's just so interesting that she had. I love the

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Speaker 2: idea that she had a chef's outfitted home. She did

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Speaker 2: because you know, when you put on a chef's out,

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Speaker 2: when you change.

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Speaker 3: We all change for work every day.

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Speaker 2: We come in here in our clothes and before we

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Speaker 2: write the menu, because we write the menu every day.

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Speaker 3: Even just sitting down and writing the menu.

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Speaker 2: You need to be wearing the clothes of cooking, you know,

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Speaker 2: and puts you into that world.

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Speaker 3: And she did that.

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Speaker 5: She was very meticulous about it and her her equipment

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Speaker 5: and materials and things that she began to acquire. Cooking

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Speaker 5: was very serious business for her. And yet it was

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Speaker 5: the place where, you know, you learned a lot of lessons,

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Speaker 5: but your hands are always And I loved that. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I felt like she was a real artist with color

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Speaker 5: and how the dishes would look in the flowers, and

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Speaker 5: it was just a whole kind of event, even if

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Speaker 5: you were making like a grilled cheese, like how is

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Speaker 5: this grilled cheese so amazing? You know?

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Speaker 4: And did she entertain?

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Speaker 3: Did you have?

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Speaker 9: She?

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Speaker 3: Did?

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Speaker 6: She did?

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Speaker 4: Growing up?

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Speaker 5: I mean, our home was a place where people in

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Speaker 5: our community, you know, if they knew that my mother

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Speaker 5: was cooking, they were not declining that invitation. And it

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Speaker 5: would just be a whole thing. And I remember I'd

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Speaker 5: have to like iron and starch the tablecloths and help

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Speaker 5: with the flowers and you know, polish the silver. And

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Speaker 5: it was just this whole kind of stage that she set,

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Speaker 5: even down to the music that might be on, and

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Speaker 5: it just there was so much joy about it. She

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Speaker 5: would keep, you know, trying different things, and she would

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Speaker 5: have her tasting spoon, and she wouldn't give up on

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Speaker 5: a recipe until she really got it, until she didn't

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Speaker 5: have to look at the book anymore.

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Speaker 4: And I think I think some of that.

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Speaker 5: Is probably involved in my process as a writer, Like

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Speaker 5: you can fail at your sentences, but you keep pushing

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Speaker 5: language until it gives and you think I hear it,

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Speaker 5: now I can see it. But my mother food is

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Speaker 5: one of the greatest gifts that she gave our family,

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Speaker 5: and certainly to me being the eldest daughter. You know,

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Speaker 5: I would I would be sous chef quite a bit

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Speaker 5: and it's made me a better person. And I love

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Speaker 5: cooking for my friends and my husband and my family.

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Speaker 3: Did you think that she was Did you have a career,

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Speaker 3: Did you have a job.

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Speaker 5: No, she mostly was at home. She had four children.

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Speaker 5: I'm the eldest, and we were young, and so she

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Speaker 5: was more of a homemaker. When she was older, she

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Speaker 5: went back to school and got a degree. She did

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Speaker 5: a lot of kind of things where I would kind

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Speaker 5: of call her like a kind of business woman of

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Speaker 5: her own, where she sometimes did real estate or she

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Speaker 5: would you know, literally be selling things that she cooked

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Speaker 5: to people in the community. Sometimes she actually would cater things.

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Speaker 5: And growing up, maybe when I was eleven or twelve,

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Speaker 5: she got diagnosed with kidney failure, and so her ability

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Speaker 5: to work maybe a more traditional job changed because she

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Speaker 5: was trying to raise for children, and then she had

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Speaker 5: this kind of chronic illness. And one of the most

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Speaker 5: beautiful things about her cooking was when she was in

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Speaker 5: the kitchen, it was like that was the cure.

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Speaker 4: Like she would kind of dance around.

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Speaker 5: She put on like Smokey Robinson and Diana Ross and

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Speaker 5: the Supremes, and she suddenly wasn't a sick mother. She

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Speaker 5: was making things and being a creator, and you know,

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Speaker 5: having to kind of balance the day being in bed

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Speaker 5: on medications.

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Speaker 4: But then she would she.

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Speaker 5: Would rally and want to be in the kitchen and

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Speaker 5: make things for her children and her family and for

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Speaker 5: her friends.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that you draw the parallel of the artists,

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Speaker 2: because there was a great film about Christo building a

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Speaker 2: fence in California, and the whole objection by the ranchers

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Speaker 2: was that it wasn't art because it was temporary. And

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Speaker 2: a woman who actually was in favor of the fence

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Speaker 2: got up and said, you know, I make a cake

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Speaker 2: every night for my family, and I really think that

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Speaker 2: that cake is a work of art.

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Speaker 6: And then it gets heated.

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Speaker 2: You know, you think about that it is temper and

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Speaker 2: that your mother doing or you know, what she did,

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Speaker 2: and creating, as you said, like an artist, and then

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Speaker 2: feeding people she loved, is a part of the whole circle,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 5: I think it feels so special because you know you

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Speaker 5: have in that moment, whoever is there, whoever is present,

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Speaker 5: they have this kind of feast and then you can't be.

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Speaker 4: Precious about it. It's to be devoured.

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Speaker 5: It's to be savored, it's memorized, and you know, then

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Speaker 5: you go and boast and brag to other people. You

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Speaker 5: need to taste this, but then it will never be

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Speaker 5: the same, so you get a whole new experience. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's also so if it's art, it's also a performance

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Speaker 2: because absolutely, you know, we have an open kitchen in

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Speaker 2: the River Cafe, and I have an open kitchen at home,

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Speaker 2: and so you put the food down, and then you

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Speaker 2: want to see people's response, you know, and you see

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Speaker 2: I often look at the table and see if they're sharing,

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Speaker 2: if they're tasting, if.

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Speaker 6: They're shaking their head no, or shaking their.

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Speaker 2: Head yes, because it's an immediate response to what you've

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Speaker 2: just made, and you know they may be they may

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Speaker 2: be right if it isn't.

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Speaker 5: It isn't always of the open kitchen here, it's kind

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Speaker 5: of like that's where the excitement is kind.

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Speaker 3: Of look drama, and.

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Speaker 5: Everyone's excited, everyone's pleased, because you know, there's just something

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Speaker 5: about cooking. It's beyond the food. It's the whole kind

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Speaker 5: of sensation and experience of it. You're there with the

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Speaker 5: people you're with and whatever you might be talking about

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Speaker 5: and sharing stories or just how you feel your moods,

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Speaker 5: and then you're looking at the kitchen, you're watching the waiters,

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Speaker 5: you're looking at all the details. And I think too,

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Speaker 5: when you're on the page, it's different, but you as

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Speaker 5: the writer, bring attention to the details for your readers

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Speaker 5: of what you want them to look at in a

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Speaker 5: way which is a little bit similar with also being

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Speaker 5: a photographer. Here's what I want you to see, the light,

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Speaker 5: the atmosphere. Can I draw you into this, you know,

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Speaker 5: flat photograph, But in the kitchen everything's alive and it's

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Speaker 5: all connected with people.

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Speaker 2: When you left home, when you left this incredible home

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Speaker 2: of food and your mother expressing her love through food

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Speaker 2: and feeding her children and teaching her children and handing over,

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Speaker 2: handing over the reins to her children. And then you left,

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Speaker 2: you know what, eighteen years of every day having your

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Speaker 2: mother do this.

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Speaker 3: Where did you go?

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Speaker 6: What was your next step?

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Speaker 10: Well?

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Speaker 5: After going to college, I moved in.

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Speaker 3: Where did you go to college?

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Speaker 5: I went to the University of Delaware, And for graduate school,

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Speaker 5: I went to Sarah Lawrence College in New York.

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Speaker 6: You did you cook when you were in college?

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Speaker 3: What did you do?

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Speaker 6: Did you go in college?

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Speaker 5: I was the person doing the parties, big pots of

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Speaker 5: pasta and garlic bread, and I would drape scarves over

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Speaker 5: like the awful fluorescent academic you know, dorm dormitory lights.

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Speaker 5: And I would have candles everywhere and people will kind

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Speaker 5: of feel like, well, this is like home away from home.

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Speaker 5: I do not like doing the dishes so people would

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Speaker 5: volunteer that part.

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Speaker 2: But where did you find this kitchen in college that

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Speaker 2: you could cook and ever your own apartment or did

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Speaker 2: you know?

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Speaker 5: I was in the dormitory, but I would just take

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Speaker 5: the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: You cooked for everyone. And then when you graduated, did

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Speaker 2: you live a domestic life where.

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Speaker 4: You can you know?

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Speaker 5: When I'm in two thousand and three, when I moved

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Speaker 5: to New York, I kind of it was that moment.

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Speaker 5: I think many writers have them and have many moments

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Speaker 5: where I just thought, I need to live in New York.

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Speaker 4: I'm a writer.

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Speaker 5: I want to see what I'm made of. Can I

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Speaker 5: make it? And you know, reading so many books about

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Speaker 5: you know, the writers and the poets, and you know

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Speaker 5: they're in the village and they're all over Manhattan, and

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Speaker 5: I thought, well that that should be a good place

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Speaker 5: for me to go and see if I'm like cut

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Speaker 5: out for this life. And you know, I worked every

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Speaker 5: kind of job and then I finally thought, you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm going to go back to grad school and just

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Speaker 5: so I'll be able to feed myself if the writing

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Speaker 5: doesn't work out. And during those years I taught at college.

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Speaker 4: I was a nanny.

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Speaker 5: At one point I was a waitress for about an hour.

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Speaker 3: Did you have to cook for the children?

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Speaker 5: No, it was a very small baby, so you know,

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Speaker 5: we spent a lot of time with me reading bad

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Speaker 5: poetry to the baby in Central Park.

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Speaker 4: But I got to.

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Speaker 5: Kind of get into the rhythm of the city.

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Speaker 3: Because you read out, you discover restaurants.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I loved finding little places, and you know, New

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Speaker 5: York is such a feast of little places and well

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Speaker 5: known places, and it was just wonderful to kind of

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Speaker 5: have these discoveries of things and also to go to

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Speaker 5: restaurants that you'd read about. You know, as you're wanting

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Speaker 5: to become a writer, suddenly you're going to.

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Speaker 3: A restaurants where they do.

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Speaker 5: You remember I loved Cafe Dante in the West Village

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Speaker 5: and you know little places or the Romanian pastry shop

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Speaker 5: up in Columbia that's just divine. And then you know,

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Speaker 5: going to you know, No host Star or I feel

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Speaker 5: like the diner situation was really great for me to

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Speaker 5: just sit in a diner and write and write and write.

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Speaker 3: So do you write?

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Speaker 2: How do you combine working and writing and doing your

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Speaker 2: work with food? Do you I often ask actors if

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Speaker 2: they eat before the play or after the play, or

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Speaker 2: artists who feel that, you know, they live such a

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Speaker 2: solitary life that they only want to go out to parties,

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Speaker 2: and film directors who basically don't want to stop for

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Speaker 2: lunch because it ruins the rhythm.

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Speaker 3: What is your writing and food day?

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Speaker 5: Like, I won't really have that much food in the morning.

311
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Speaker 5: I'm someone who with wellness things I'll have like my

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Speaker 5: green Mucky drink, which is delicious, or I'll have just

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Speaker 5: some poached eggs or something like that, which I like

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Speaker 5: with a little spinach. And it depends what I'm doing.

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Speaker 5: If I'm out in the field working on photographs, then

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Speaker 5: I probably don't eat. I'll just have like some fresh

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Speaker 5: squeeze juice and then I'm out because I need to.

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Speaker 4: Follow the light very carefully.

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Speaker 5: If I'm writing, I can write for long periods of

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Speaker 5: time and a lot of tea. In New York, you know,

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Speaker 5: going to friends homes to eat is a thing that

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Speaker 5: we enjoy, and going out to really lovely restaurants. We

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Speaker 5: both my husband and I both have an appreciation for

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Speaker 5: wonderful cooking and food and kind of the imagination. So

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Speaker 5: we'll kind of work all day and then perhaps we'll

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Speaker 5: go out to a restaurant to meet a friend, or

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Speaker 5: we'll just go together. These days were more inside. We

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Speaker 5: love to have, you know, Indian food delivered.

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Speaker 2: Have you thought, Eliza more about Indian food, because I

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Speaker 2: know that you are passionate and grew up with it,

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Speaker 2: and we talked about Indian food.

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Speaker 8: Well, New York used to be not good at.

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Speaker 3: Indian food, unlike Britain.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, it's getting much better. You know. They now

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Speaker 8: are like half a dozen really good Indian places in

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Speaker 8: New York. So that that feels great because it felt

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Speaker 8: like a real you know, in this city which has

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Speaker 8: every kind of cuisine. Indian food was a kind of absence.

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Speaker 2: But now why do you think that is not many?

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Speaker 8: I think Americans hadn't discovered India, yeah somehow, but now

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Speaker 8: they have. And you know, my view about eating and

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Speaker 8: working is that I've always thought work hungry.

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Speaker 3: You work hungry, you do eat later.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Interesting?

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Speaker 2: Are you as a writer, are you attempted to get

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Speaker 2: to get up and down? You get up and go

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Speaker 2: look in the fridge and then close the door.

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Speaker 8: Will you go into the kitchen? I think one of

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Speaker 8: the important things about writing is to stay. Sitting down.

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Speaker 3: Helps New York. I always think that it is interesting.

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Speaker 2: This is a diversion that Britain British food, which is

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Speaker 2: so I could say, quite bland and you know, unadventurous, and.

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Speaker 3: People cook the traditional food they grew up with.

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Speaker 2: But except for when I came to London, I couldn't

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Speaker 2: believe it how Indian culture had. You know, everybody can

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Speaker 2: make a curry, you know, or you know whether it's

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Speaker 2: a good curry or not. But then you'd go to

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Speaker 2: a small town outside of Britain will be an Indian restaurant.

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Speaker 2: You know, there would be people selling all sorts of

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Speaker 2: chilis in the market.

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Speaker 6: Now it's it's so interesting, but we.

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Speaker 8: Know why to do with an empire?

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Speaker 3: Just to do with an.

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Speaker 2: Not a very hard question to answer, but it was

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Speaker 2: to do with an empire. Then coming back I guess

367
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Speaker 2: and saying this is I had this fabulous food and

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Speaker 2: we have to learn.

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Speaker 5: Things I love to do when we come to London

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Speaker 5: is to sit at Salmon's sisters table Samine. Her cookbook

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Speaker 5: is amazing, but it's such a treat that she usually

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Speaker 5: cooks when we come to visit, and so everything she

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Speaker 5: makes is so delicious, and she'll have the chutney, and

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Speaker 5: she'll have the sauce and the somosas, or she's oh,

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Speaker 5: I just put something together and it's like the best

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Speaker 5: thing you've ever tasted, and it's so good. And so

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Speaker 5: when I've kind of flipped through her her cookbook and

378
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 5: I look at the spices and things, I kind of

379
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 5: just feel so overwhelmed. But I know sooner or later

380
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Speaker 5: I need to be able to kind of get a

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Speaker 5: proper curry in my skill set.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel the same way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then can we talk about the food in your

385
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Speaker 2: book and how you integrated and brought food in to

386
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Speaker 2: tell a story, a complex story?

387
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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 5: So, you know, one of the things I've always loved

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Speaker 5: when reading novels is food and how it's kind of

390
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Speaker 5: you know, how it's introduced to the reader and the

391
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Speaker 5: presence of it, Or novels where no one's eating you

392
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Speaker 5: kind of noticed, well, what were they eating? What exactly

393
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Speaker 5: are they drinking? Where are they what's in season? I think,

394
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Speaker 5: I promise the two Black sisters who are the central

395
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 5: characters of the novel their coming of age in nineteen

396
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Speaker 5: fifty seven in a remote sea village in Maine, and

397
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Speaker 5: in that space which is very spare and bleak and

398
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 5: suddenly kind of hostile to them. The shelter of their

399
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,400
Speaker 5: home and the relationship that their mother as a nurturer

400
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 5: has provided for them one of the things that is

401
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 5: most important, as you know, how to feed the children,

402
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,719
Speaker 5: what's available, what's in season, in a kind of place

403
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 5: like that. And the kitchen is a kind of classroom too,

404
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 5: as they're coming of age, and so, you know, to

405
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 5: grow up to have a mother who has her rules

406
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 5: and her recipes, and that in the space of the

407
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 5: kitchen they're all safe, whereas elsewhere outside of their home

408
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 5: things are beginning to become quite unsafe for them.

409
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Speaker 4: And so there's something in the.

410
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Speaker 11: Girls that they have their kind of authority and imagination

411
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Speaker 11: and respect for their mother's stature in the kitchen and

412
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Speaker 11: in the home.

413
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Speaker 5: You know, their mother cooks them a kind of special

414
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 5: the day, you know, before the first day of school meal,

415
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 5: and that's almost as important as Christmas dinner for them,

416
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Speaker 5: and that there are these different moments through the food

417
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 5: that certain things about each character is revealed, and how

418
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 5: they feel about the kitchen or what they're eating, and

419
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 5: the kind of comfort that food offers them in a

420
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 5: place that is really starting to shift as different things

421
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 5: are happening elsewhere in America. So, you know, I think

422
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 5: a lot of my own upbringing is transmitted into the

423
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 5: space of food and thinking about food and just you know,

424
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Speaker 5: if I were to expand outward and think about Black

425
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 5: American families in America and the real trajectory and storylines

426
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 5: and stories of food and recipes and things being handed,

427
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 5: it's real kind of delicious lineage that is important to

428
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 5: survival and to joy and to having a place where

429
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 5: different family members live on through the foods they made,

430
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 5: the foods they invented. You know, there were visions of

431
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 5: a recipe, secret recipes. I find all of that really

432
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 5: lovely and magical.

433
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: Families can be victims of racism, or victims of poverty,

434
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: or people who've just immigrated from another country. It's so

435
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 2: interesting to me that many people who've emigrated from one

436
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 2: country to another bring the food with them, or the

437
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 2: grandmothers bring the food with them. They talk more about

438
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: their grandmother's food than their mother's because the grandmothers actually

439
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 2: bring the food. The mother might be trying to adapt

440
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 2: and the children kind of throw it out, but they

441
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: go back to the grandmother to experience what those memories

442
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: she's brought with them, very often just being the food.

443
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I've read many accounts were enslaved people,

444
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 5: you know, will come over and have stitched into the

445
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 5: hems of their clothes seeds from their country of origin,

446
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 5: and that they would try to literally bring kind of

447
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 5: pieces from the homeland or the motherland with them to

448
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 5: try and grow it, you know, wherever they were being

449
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 5: taken against their will.

450
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 4: And so there's such a power in that.

451
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 5: But also I love stories about, you know, one I'm

452
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 5: thinking in African American families, you know, taking something that

453
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 5: was the scrap and then making it into something that

454
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 5: then finds itself in the mainstream of American culture, you know,

455
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 5: and how things can you know, transform and become these

456
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 5: other things even though they were supposed to be the

457
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 5: food of the poor or this is all that was available,

458
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 5: and then it becomes this thing that everyone's like, what

459
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 5: is that. There's a politics to it. There's also this

460
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 5: really wonderful humanity of like we all need to eat

461
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 5: and how we eat as as important as what we eat,

462
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 5: what we can afford to eat, what we can afford

463
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 5: not to eat, and you know, for Promise, which takes

464
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 5: place in nineteen fifty seven fifty eight, that would have

465
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 5: been an issue of where black people could go to

466
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 5: eat versus other places and what that means. And you know,

467
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 5: it's it's so powerful to to really think about that.

468
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 5: But in my research, you know, I would look at

469
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 5: advertisements and read different things and watch films and you know,

470
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 5: colors only or they can't see at this hotel, or

471
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 5: they can't stop on the road to get gasoline at

472
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 5: this place.

473
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 4: It all is.

474
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 2: So do you see those sized photographs of Gordon Parks.

475
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: I love He's one of those favorite too, and those

476
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 2: ones that particularly take place in the drinking fountains or

477
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: the outside and a diner outside of a place of food,

478
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: and you see the separation. It's they're they're painfully beautiful.

479
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 5: Photography is just sounding. It's heartbreaking, but then it's also

480
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 5: like beautiful the way that he shows the distance. And

481
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 5: yet there's a beauty and a dignity. Dignity absolutely agree.

482
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 8: Hi.

483
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 10: My name is Sophia and I'm a cheh at the

484
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 10: River Cafe. Today we're making brusquetta with smash broad beans

485
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 10: and ball of Montsorella.

486
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 4: So for the smash broad beans. Here we have some

487
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 4: potted broad beans.

488
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 10: You want to choose the smaller ones if you can

489
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 10: get them, because they're not so starchy, so a bit sweeter.

490
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 10: Put them in a food processor.

491
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 7: Give that big clip.

492
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 10: You don't want it, you know, to be blitzed too much.

493
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 10: You want it the texture. And into that a little

494
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 10: little bit of crush garlic, bit of roughly chopped.

495
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 6: Basil and mint.

496
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 3: It's fantastic. Give that another list.

497
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 10: In with the herbs this point, a bit of salt,

498
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 10: bit of pepper because people will be adding cheese.

499
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 4: You don't want too much.

500
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 10: And now it's a fun pot.

501
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: We get to put quite a lot of the.

502
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 6: Oil in it.

503
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: We were talking about creating food and making food and

504
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: your mother making food, and just before we came into

505
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: this room, you were in the kitchen with a chef

506
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: from the River Cafe. You made smash broad beans to

507
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: serve with mozzarella.

508
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 5: Yes, with mozzarella and warm tasty garlic bread.

509
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So would you like to read the recipe.

510
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 5: Smashed broad beans with mozzarella. We only make this when

511
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 5: the first broad beans are in season and when they

512
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 5: are small and sweet. Three hundred grams potted broad beans,

513
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 5: extra virgin olive oil, and when we say extra, we

514
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 5: mean extra one hundred and fifty grams of freshly grated parmesan,

515
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 5: ten basil leaves, very very green, ten mint leaves, half

516
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 5: a clove of garlic, the stinkiest garlic you can find,

517
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 5: one large ball of mozzarella, and sour dough bread. Put

518
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 5: the broad beans in a blender with the olive oil, parmesan, basil, mint,

519
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 5: and half clove of garlic.

520
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 4: Then roughly pure.

521
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 5: Because you want to keep some of the texture. Don't

522
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 5: over pure.

523
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 4: Trust me. Season with salt and pepper.

524
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 5: Lightly tear the mozzarella with your hands, which is fun,

525
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 5: and place onto a plate. Place a spoonful of the

526
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 5: pure next to the mozzarella. Grill the bread until browned.

527
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 5: Rub the bruschetta generously with the remains garlic.

528
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 4: Finish with a.

529
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 5: Drizzle of extra extra extra virgin olive oil, and serve

530
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 5: with delight.

531
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 3: An extra extra extra happiness. What was it like seeing this? Smell?

532
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 4: Sophia is wonderful.

533
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 5: I mean when she was making this, the bright green

534
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 5: and the smell of the garlic and the mint and

535
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 5: the basil, it was like better nearly as good as

536
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 5: having a really strong cup of coffee, because the smell

537
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 5: suddenly brought you kind of into the world. And then

538
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 5: of course the warm bread and the cheese. It's like

539
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 5: everything you love. So I was very happy to be

540
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 5: in the kitchen and to have a little taste.

541
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 6: Maybe you'll make it, oh for sure.

542
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, what did you think?

543
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 8: I couldn't believe how much olive oil. That's a serious

544
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 8: amount of olive oil.

545
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 4: Really really go for it.

546
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: It's a good thing. Yeah, it's good.

547
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 10: Final blitz. And then you want to add the cheese

548
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 10: at the end. You don't want it to become gummy

549
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 10: in the mixture. Same with the broad beans. If you

550
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 10: ever pure it. It's the texture isn't as nice.

551
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 4: Texture is very important.

552
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: M that is good.

553
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 10: I think more oil still, it's quite a lot, you know.

554
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: It's more herbs.

555
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 8: Okay, I think.

556
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 9: That that would be perfect.

557
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 10: And then you put this mix on a brusqutter.

558
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 9: Let's have garlic and salt on it, rubbed on onto

559
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 9: the bread. A bit more oil, and then we've got

560
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 9: a ball of mozzarella. You can either cut it in

561
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 9: half or rip it on the plate with your brusqutter.

562
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 9: A bit more oil.

563
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, fantastic. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. Fun. Yeah,

564
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 4: I'm very welcome. Thank you.

565
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: We always ask one question of everyone, which is that

566
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: if food is alleviates hunger, and if food expresses sharing,

567
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: and the food expresses of course love, and it can

568
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: be something that you turn to whenever you need to

569
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: be fed because you're hungry, or you need to be loved.

570
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: It's also comfort and so one of the questions that

571
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: I'd like to ask you before we end this interview

572
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: is if you have a food that you turn to

573
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: for comfort, do you know what that would be?

574
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 5: I think when I think of comfort and food, I'd

575
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 5: probably make something my mother made for me. She had

576
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 5: some wonderful soups that I met. I can make them,

577
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 5: but there was nothing like coming into the house and

578
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 5: having one of those days or things are you're blue,

579
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 5: you're a little bit blue, and you could immediately smell

580
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 5: that she was making a soup.

581
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 4: And I love to read and have soup.

582
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: So is there a soup that you particularly like or

583
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 2: does it depend on the season.

584
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 5: I think it depends on the season for me because

585
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 5: I love chilled soups too, So you know, a soup

586
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 5: that has meant, or a soup that is gospato, or

587
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 5: you know a New England clum child, or they're all

588
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 5: different seasons. And in the autumn, I love a squash soup.

589
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 5: It's so nice and comforting carrot soups. So I think

590
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 5: when I need comfort, I will I look at the

591
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 5: kind of traditional, kind of really nice soup or stew.

592
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

593
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of stew, would you like to read a

594
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: section from your book?

595
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 8: Sure?

596
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 3: Because I'd love that.

597
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: And there's a reference to the stew, and I thought

598
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 2: you could perhaps tell us what that is.

599
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 4: This is from promise.

600
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 5: Miss Irene ask us to set the table with her

601
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 5: special wooden dishes and spoons. She'd made a healing stew,

602
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 5: she said, filled with nutrients to replenish and restore our

603
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 5: self esteem. I'd been so afraid of what miss Irene

604
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 5: was going to say to us. I hadn't noticed the

605
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 5: rich scent of the stock simmering on the stove. This

606
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 5: has potatoes and peaches in it, she said, having no

607
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 5: idea really what she was talking about. We only nodded

608
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 5: and went around the table, quickly arranging bowls and spoons

609
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 5: and cups.

610
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 4: Before our father would arrive. To take us home beautiful.

611
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: I love many things about this paragraph. I love the

612
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: idea that nutrients can give you self esteem. Yes, I

613
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: like that would be saying that we hear, especially with

614
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: this generation, that self esteem, self esteem and self esteem.

615
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 6: But who knew that peaches and a healing stew could

616
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 6: do that? So we have to.

617
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: And I was also very intrigued by the idea of

618
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: having a stew with peaches in it. That's almost Moroccan,

619
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: isn't it, the way they do Tajeans with fruit.

620
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 6: Did you have a stew with peaches or did?

621
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 5: I think sometime in the past I probably had a

622
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 5: stew that had fruit in it, but I don't know

623
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 5: if it would necessarily have been peaches. I think, you know,

624
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 5: thinking about in August and it's kind of end of

625
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 5: summer and peaches and last chance peaches and all the

626
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 5: different types of peaches and loving to have them grilled

627
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 5: or loving to have them like cobbler or something like that. Like,

628
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 5: I'm sure there must be a stew somewhere that has pea.

629
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying, you know that's I don't know if

630
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: you've been to Morocco, but they do these Tajeans if

631
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: you're somm would have maize and apricots and lamb and

632
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 2: prunes and chicken and lemons, and it's really using everything

633
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: in there.

634
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think miss Irene who is the mother and

635
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 5: the family that they are very close to her people

636
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 5: kind of come in my mind from like Caribbean or diaspora,

637
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 5: and so they might have a different bit of a

638
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 5: different palette than Cynthia and her sister. And so these

639
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 5: kind of hardy stews where they're wondering where she gets

640
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 5: these ingredients and things and puts them together, and that

641
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 5: this is something their own mother can't make, but they

642
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 5: get the motherhood of miss Irene. And so you know

643
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 5: the certain things that you know, maybe you eat them

644
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 5: to feel confident or strong or they make you feel good,

645
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 5: and that there's a way of putting that love into

646
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 5: a dish and telling the girls to kind of you know,

647
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 5: be strong and be confident and keep their heads up high,

648
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 5: and that they're beautiful young girls and that their appetites matter.

649
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 3: You know.

650
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: I mean, I think this has been I have to say,

651
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: one must be full. Interviews we've done, the talks, we've

652
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: done in conversations because you know, we know that.

653
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 6: Food is memory and is food is family.

654
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: Food is an expression of comfort, time together and just

655
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 2: having this time together for two of us with someone

656
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: to talk about that is.

657
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 6: Something that I'd love to do more of. And I

658
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 6: feel so grateful to you for coming.

659
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 4: I'm grateful for you too.

660
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 5: It's lovely, it was lovely for all of us to

661
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 5: talk about food.

662
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 4: I can't stop smiling right now. I just want to

663
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 4: go eat it. Thank you so much.

664
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: And as I said, you know, there's nothing better than someone.

665
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 6: You love being with someone you love. Thank you good.

666
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: The River Cafe Look Book is now available in bookshops

667
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: and online. It has over one hundred recipes, beautifully illustrated

668
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: with photographs from the renowned photographer Matthew Donaldson. The book

669
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: has fifty delicious and easy to prepare recipes, including a

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Speaker 1: host of River Cafe classics that have been specially adapted

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Speaker 1: for new cooks. The River Cafe Lookbook Recipes for cooks

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Speaker 1: of all ages. Ruthie's Table four is a production of

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows,