WEBVTT - Where's the Beef? 9 of History's Greatest Feuds 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.519 You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:14.200 and iHeartRadio. Guess what, Mary, what's that mango? Did you 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.760 know that Mark Twain absolutely hated Jane Austen? 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:18.480 Huh? 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.000 Let me guess he thought Elizabeth Bennett would have ditched 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:23.000 mister Darcy and gone rafting down the Thames. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.880 I mean, that would have been an amazing book. But no, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.760 he just thought Austin was a terrible writer. He wants 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.680 to hold a friend. Quote. Every time I read Pride 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.400 and Prejudice, I want to dig her up and beat 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.040 her over the skull with her own shin bone. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.880 Oh my god, I know, right, yikes. But wait a minute, 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.040 Wait a minute. He read it multiple times, this book 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:44.040 that he hated so much. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.400 I guess Mark Twain invented hate reading. I mean, it's 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.280 one of his lesser known accomplishments. But it got me 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.800 thinking about other crazy feuds. And then I realized, Twain 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.720 versus Austin isn't actually a feud at all. 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:58.560 What do you mean? 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.120 So? According to the Day Dictionary, a feud is quote 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.240 a mutual enmity or quarrel that is often prolonged and 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.399 Jane Austen died years before Mark Twain was born, so 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.160 there was nothing mutual about it. He was just being 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:13.360 snarky after her death. 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:14.040 Huh. 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.320 So rule number one a feuding make sure your opponent 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:17.320 is still alive. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.800 I mean, it is a good rule. But we've got 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.759 some actual feuds to talk about on today's episode, and 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:47.400 some of them are pretty wild. So let's get started. Hey, 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.640 their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm mongas Shittigula, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:55.080 and today I'm joined by my producer extraordinary Mary Philip Sandy. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.920 And over there behind that soundproof glass sticking pins through 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.640 photos of his enemies, and he sure has a lot 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.920 of enemies. That's our producer, Dylan Fagan. I gotta say, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.360 I did not expect Dylan to have beef with the 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.200 great character actor Judy Greer. 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.240 Yeah, or Olympic figure skater Brian Boyce. Out what what 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:15.160 is happening? 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.320 Oh he's holding off a sign now it says Brian 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.519 and Judy know what they did? Good? 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.760 Ah, Okay, well it sort of makes sense now, I guess, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:25.800 but I am curious. 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.200 You know, today's episode is all about feuds. Have you 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:29.840 ever had a feud of any sort? 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.480 I had a feud in first grade, and it was 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.079 very serious and should we bleep his name? 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:40.040 His name was Kenny lives in Still we can bleep that, 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:40.760 we can bleep that. 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.280 There was a competition to read books, and there were 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:45.600 paper ice cream cones put on the walls of the 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.359 classroom and every time you read a book, you had 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.400 a scoop out of your ice cream cone. Whoever had 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.799 the highest scoop at the end of the year was 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.280 going to get a prize. Kevin was reading little kid 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.840 books I'm talking bored books, and he was racking. I 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.320 was reading chapter books in first grade. I was reading 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.239 Little House on the Prairie. It's longer, it takes more time. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.720 And I went to my first grade teacher, Missus Davis, 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.240 if you're listening, and I said, this isn't fair, and 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.679 she said, a book is a book and sat there 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:16.600 and laughed. 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:18.960 You know what I noticed. Yeah, we didn't have to 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:20.519 beat missus Davis's name out. 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:21.880 She's dead. 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:31.840 Oh no, well, miss David, Yes, I carry a grudge 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.440 about that to this day. I learned an important lesson 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.400 at age seven in first grade, and. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:40.040 That's that life is very unfair. Yeah about you? How 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:40.480 about you? 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.920 I mean, you know that scene I don't know if 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.840 you've seen it, but in the Bulls documentary where Michael 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.080 Jordan makes up that feud with someone and he's like, 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.800 and I took that personally, like it's an event that 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.400 never takes place. He makes it up in his mind, 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.640 so he plays better. I feel like I have a 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.200 lot of feuds with people don't know they're in fuds 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.080 with me. Huh, Okay, not a lot, but like when 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.160 we started Mental Flaws, there was another magazine that was 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.839 so much shinier and so much prettier and so much 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:15.280 better made, and we had this like rivalry with them, 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.080 but it was so one sided and they never knew 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.240 about us, and so like, I feel like that type 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:22.159 of thing happened. 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.840 A well, maybe they're kicking themselves now looking back on it. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:32.239 Yeah, you know maybe. Anyway, let's talk about some real feuds. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:33.240 Let's talk about some. 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.159 Real feuds that don't involve magazines or you know, cheating 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.200 seven year olds. Okay, well, here's a ninety four year 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.080 old literary feud that is still being debated today, and 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.880 it involves the authors Langston Hughes and Zora Neil Hurston. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:49.920 So they met in New York during the Harlem Renaissance, 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.880 and they became close friends and really great supporters of 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.000 each other's work, which I think is probably the opposite 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:57.800 of a feud, right yeah, yeah, that was actually a 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:58.719 beautiful friendship. 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.040 Is the technical death of what that was. 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.760 But it all began to fall apart in nineteen thirty 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.840 when they tried to write a play together. So it 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.640 was a comedy ostensibly based on one of Hurston's unpublished 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.760 short stories called The Bone of Contention Foreshadowing, which in 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:17.440 turn was based on a folk tale that she had 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.040 heard in her Florida hometown. And then here's where things 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.159 get murky. Hughes thought they would finish the play together, 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.040 but while she was away on a trip, Hurston rewrote 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:29.720 the script herself. She titled it Mule Bone and submitted 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.720 it for copyright registration in her name only. She also 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.680 sent her draft to the author Carl van Vechten, who 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:38.800 turned around and sent it to the Theater Guild, which 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.200 was an organization that produced plays on Broadway, including many 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:43.560 by well known authors at the time. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.359 And so did herson know he was going to do 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.720 this like submit it to this group? 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.400 No, No, she had no idea he was going to 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.359 share it with anyone, But now all of a sudden 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.560 it's out there and people are talking about this play 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:56.520 and Langston Hughes is like, wait, what I mean? 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.800 I'm sure he said it more more eloquently than that, 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:00.359 because he's Likenston used that was. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.760 The gist of it, right, And at first he said 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.479 he was just disappointed that the collaboration didn't continue. But 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.520 apparently he had stronger feelings than that, because next thing 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.479 you know, he has combined Hurston's second act of the 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.440 play with his versions of the first and the third acts. 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:16.880 And then he sent that whole thing off to the 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.960 copyright office again, this time with both of their names 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:20.520 on the cover. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.360 So there are two versions of the same play now, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:25.600 like both copyright. 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.920 Now, Yeah, exactly exactly, And then he hired a lawyer 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.080 and started commanding credit and royalty. Sure, and Hurston pointed 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.320 out that the story was her idea in the first place, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.200 and Hughes hadn't participated in the rewrite that she had 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.080 done herself. She also added that he'd borrowed some of 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.560 her ideas for his novel Not Without Laughter, and she 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.200 hadn't been going around demanding credit. 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:46.000 And you know, looking back on. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.240 It, some people today read this as Hurston being selfish 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.839 or petty. But if you look at the context and 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.320 you look at it another way, what she was doing 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.279 was fighting for control of her work, and that was 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.200 the struggle she knew all too well. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:06:59.520 During her career. 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.800 She had this wealthy white patron named Charlotte Osgood Mason 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:04.839 who gave her a lot of money, but it came 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.000 with a lot of strings attached. She owned a lot 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.400 of the work that she did. And this guy, Carl 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.440 van Vechten, he gave her play draft to producers without 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:14.560 even asking if it was okay to do that. So 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.800 maybe this question of authorship was just kind of the 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:18.480 final straw. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.640 Yeah, that makes sense. But did the two of them 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.600 ever work it out? Like, did they conference? 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:24.680 Nope? That was the end of it. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.840 The hol debacle ended their friendship, and many years later, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.240 in the eighties, Henry Lewis Gates dug out the different 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.720 versions of Mulebone and combined them into a production script, 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.560 and the play made its debut in New York in 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:36.480 nineteen ninety one. 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:38.880 Huh, I feel like I've never heard of this was 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:39.680 any good? 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:41.280 Not really it. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.920 Got very mixed reviews, and basically critics felt that this 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:50.400 Franken script didn't accurately reflect either Hurston or Hughes's real talent. 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:51.280 That is a shame. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:51.720 What is it? 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:52.360 A camel? 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.200 Is a horse made by committee or something? Yeah, I 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.360 feel like maybe this is the camel of their play. 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.480 Yeah, something like that. But you know, the way I 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.840 see it, this story behind the play is the most 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.600 compelling drama of all. So I am hoping that someday 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.120 someone will turn that into a play and we can 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:08.120 see it on Broadway. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:09.400 Someday. 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.400 I'm into it. Well, I've got another story of a 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.160 friendship gone wrong. This one takes us all the way 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:19.400 back to eighteenth century Europe and involves Jean Jacques Rousseau, 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.480 who is a philosopher from Geneva and wrote several popular novels, 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.520 but his radical views actually got him in trouble. For 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.200 one thing, he believed that all religions are equal, and 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.560 the Church obviously considered this heresy at the time, so 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.520 he was condemned by Genevan authorities and by many people 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.360 he'd consider friends. In fact, he actually had to skip 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.240 down to avoid being arrested. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.880 So it was like the Enlightenment version of getting canceled. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.800 Yeah, I mean, cancel culture was so much worse back then. Meanwhile, 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.719 the Scottish philosopher David Hume heard about Rousseau's struggles and 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.280 he could actually relate. Hume was a religious skeptic and 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.720 the Catholic Church had banned his books, but unlike Rousseau, 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.560 he wasn't ostracized by his establishment friends. So Hume decided 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.960 to use his connections to help Russeau relocate to England. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.000 He actually convinced King George the Third to provide a 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.680 pension for him. He arranged lodgings and even met him 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.600 in Paris to travel to the UK, and at first 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.640 Rousseau was pretty grateful. I mean he settled in a 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.920 house in Staffordshire where he seemed, you know, pretty happy, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.520 And that could have been the end of it, except 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:31.000 two things happen. So one Russeau has a notoriously bad 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:35.400 temper and two there's an ill advised prank letter that 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:36.160 gets into play. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:37.040 A prank letter. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.560 I did not see that coming. What happened. So this 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.880 letter began circulating in the British press. It was ostensibly 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.920 a message from Frederick to the Great, the King of Prussia, 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.920 and it offered Rousseau safe haven. But the whole thing 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.520 was just poking fun at the controversies. One of the 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.400 lines went quote, it is high time to grow prudent 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.960 and happy. You've made yourself sufficiently talked of for singularities 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.360 little becoming a truly great man. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.199 The King of Prussia wrote that. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.120 No, it was the English writer Horace Walpole, and he 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.920 was trying to be funny. Rousseau was furious by this, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.079 but he also knew that Walpole and Hume were friends, 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.240 so he started with the accusations right now. Hume denied 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.560 knowing anything about this, but Rousseau was convinced he was involved, 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.040 and he got so mad he even refused to accept 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.160 the royal pension that Hume had arranged for him, which 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.320 you know, feels insane to me, but I guess he 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.559 was a man of principle anyway. After exchanging these scathing letters, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.840 Rousseau accused Hume of plotting to destroy him. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.000 That sounds a bit paranoid. 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.000 Yeah, but remember he'd spent all those years being persecuted, 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.280 so I guess it'd become kind of had it by 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.839 this point to be that paranoid, but eventually Rousseau writes 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.040 a letter that's so angry Hume starts to think he's 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.839 really gone over the edge. His friends advise him to 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.600 let it go, but he ignores them, and in October 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.600 seventeen seventy six, less than a year after their friendship 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.199 had begun, Hume publishes his account of the conflict, including 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.080 the letters, and it becomes this giant he said, he 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.160 said scandal, with rumors flying about who knew what and 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.199 who said what, and in the end Rousseau actually leaves 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.480 England and he and Hume never speak again. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:20.520 Wow. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:21.439 Wow. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.080 You know, when I think of eighteenth century philosopher's juicy, 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.640 drama is not the first thing that comes to mind. 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.560 But I guess I've been wrong this whole time. Well, 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.560 from drama to comedy, although this comedy also involves drama. 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.400 Did you know that Abbott and Costello had an off 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:36.080 stage feud? 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.480 So the main thing I knew about abd and Costello 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.200 other than the Who's on first routine is that Leu 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.040 Costello was a kleptomaniac, really, and I remember this from 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.280 an old mental article, that he used to steal so 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.920 much furniture and so many props from sets that people 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.920 used to claim his house was furnished in early Universal 0:11:55.080 --> 0:12:01.040 as in Universal Studios. But I knew they weren't exactly 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:01.680 the best of friends. 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.560 But tell me about this few Okay, So during their 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.120 heyday in the nineteen forties, Abbot and Costello they were 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:09.080 the most popular comedians in the country, in the highest paid, too. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.320 But their act began as an accident. Luke Costello had 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.839 another partner who didn't show up for a performance one night. 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.079 So but Abbot stepped in to play the straight man 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.200 for him, and that's it. 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:19.120 The rest is history. 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.160 Abbot was actually considered one of the best straight men 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.720 of all time, and so for a while he took 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.080 sixty percent of the duo's earnings. Eventually, Costello demanded more, 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.840 and there's even a rumor that he tried to get 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.079 the order of their names reversed in the credits of movies. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.320 That's amazing. First of all, it's amazing that like a 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.920 straight man could demand more money. You know, you don't 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.560 expect that. But also, Costello and Abbot just sounds wrong. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:45.240 Yeah, that's why no one changed it. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.760 I think if it had sounded right, we'd have heard 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.680 about it, but as their fame grew, their differences just 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.920 became more and more apparent. Abbot was kind of easy going, 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.960 he enjoyed the finer things in life. Costello was more 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.880 uptight and anxious. He sometimes worried that Abbot hadn't done 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.840 enough to prepare when they were rehearsing new material. And 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:05.880 it all came to a head in nineteen forty five, 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:10.040 but not because of anything showbiz related. Apparently, Costello fired 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:14.800 his maid and Abbot hired her. So I'm waiting for 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.800 a punchline yet, No, no, there isn't one. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.120 That's all it was. I mean, believe me. 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.240 I tried to find out if there's anything else, but 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.319 I think that's all it is. They just had an 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.400 argument about a maid, and for some reason they couldn't 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.400 get past it. And they were about to start a 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.880 run at the Roxy here in New York, so Costello 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.120 tried to rebook himself as a solo act. Abbot gets 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:35.800 wind of this and shows up at the theater. So 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.880 the shows go on as planned, but they only speak 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.400 to each other when they're on stage. The tension continued 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.320 into the fifties as their popularity declined, and in nineteen 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.480 fifty seven, they split up for real. Costello said later 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:50.880 that they had just gotten tired of the act doing 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.319 the same thing, but there may have been more to it. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.520 Legendary film star Errol Flynn wrote in his memoir that 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.280 he had invited Abbot, Costello and their families to his 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.439 house for dinner, very nice. Afterwards, he offered to show 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.520 them a whole movie, but instead of vacation scenes, the 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:12.240 real ended up being a blue film like pornography. Yes, 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:20.240 just imagine Abbott Costello, their families unstar Errol Flynn with 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.520 surprise pornography. So everyone is horrified. Everyone is like, what 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.400 is going on? Errol Flynn pretended he didn't know what happened? 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.040 How did that get there? And so Abin and Costello 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.920 ended up blaming each other for the prank, the first 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.120 the maid thing and then the poor Yeah he was 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.960 the old one. Two made. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.320 Such a weird way to end a business partnership. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.080 Yeah, and it's not even a very creative prank if 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:47.840 you think about it. 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.680 Well, speaking of creativity, you know what it is creative 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.560 is painting your rival space into a famous fresco. 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.920 That actually sounds more like a compliment to me. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.320 Yeah, I mean, I guess it could be, but when 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.000 it came to Michelangelo and Rafael and obligatory note here 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.200 for our listeners, I am not referring to the Ninja turtles. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:13.000 Okay, okay, okay, so the actual not teenage Renaissance artists. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:18.280 Okay, So yeah, no martial arts here. Now. Michlangelo was 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.240 a legend in his own time, but he was not 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.800 an easygoing guy. He actually had these intense rivalries with 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.240 many other artists, including Leonardo da Vinci, and he was 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.000 known for being difficult and ill tempered. But Rafael, who 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.800 was nearly a decade younger, really really got under his skin. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.160 So in fifteen oh eight, Pope Julius the Second chose 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.720 Rafael to paint a fresco in his private library. And 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.840 not only was Michelangelo offended that he didn't get the gig, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.880 he then had to hear everyone praising Rafael's work, and 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.200 there were some people who said Rafael was the better artist, 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.320 even though they knew Michelangelo was one of his biggest influences. So, 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.480 according to one biographer, Michlangelo lashed out, making the younger 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:04.000 man quote bear the brunt of his unrelenting envy, contempt, 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:05.040 and anger. 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:06.520 So how did Raphael take this? 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.400 Not lying down? So, in one of his frescoes for 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:14.640 Pope Julius, Rafael painted Michelangelo's face onto the body of Heraclitis, 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.520 an ancient Greek philosopher who he depicted in a gathering 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.800 with Socrates, Aristotle, and Plato. 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.640 That still sounds like a compliment, though. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.760 Except hera Clitis was widely known as a bitter and 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.160 arrogant misanthrowt. 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.080 Okay okay, okay, I get it now. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.880 But it turns out this was a real two way feud. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:38.080 So Raphael snuck into the Cystinine Chapel before Michelangelo finished 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.600 the famous ceilings so he could see what his rival 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.240 was up to. And it said that the muscular figures 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.120 of God and Adam inspired Rafael to actually beef up 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.520 his own subjects. And the conflict grew as Rafael won 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.080 more and more commissions. And unlike Michelangelo, he was just 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.280 well liked and social. He's really good at old timey 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.800 schmoozing with patrons and important people in the clergy. And 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.080 in fifteen fifteen, just a few years after Michelangelo finished 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:08.160 the Sistine frescoes. Rafael was actually asked to design elaborate 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.560 tapestries for the chapel's walls. Now, some of them have 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.400 since been damaged or loss, but back then the complete tapestries, 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.720 which were woven with real gold and silver thread, were 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.640 probably the most eye catching art in the Cistine Chapel, 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.280 not the ceiling. Wow is actually hard to imagine, right, 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.919 but it is true anyway. It's safe to assume the 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.679 feud would have continued if Rafael hadn't died suddenly in 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.600 fifteen twenty. Of course, Michelangelo was not one to let 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.800 things go, and he summed up Rafael's life by writing, quote, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.359 what he had of art he had for me? 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.159 Wow? Way to get the last word in. 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.160 Well, that's actually the perfect lead into our next feud 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.880 between the famous author Edgar Allan Poe and the much 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:51.880 less famous editor Rufus Griswold. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:53.040 Which one of them? Have you heard of? 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:54.879 The first? 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:55.560 Okay? 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.280 So they met in eighteen forty one, and apparently they 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.080 never really liked each other very much. Griswold, who came 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.600 from a religious New England family, looked down on Poe 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.960 as an immoral social climber whose talent didn't match his reputation, 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.800 and although he occasionally complimented his work, Poe thought Griswold 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.120 was just way too full of himself, which he kind 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.560 of was. But they kept up a polite appearance. They 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.239 moved in the same circles. They could be nice if 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.840 they had to, and Griswold even included some of Poe's 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.359 work in an anthology he published called The Poets and 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.000 Poetry of America. So Griswold was really into this idea 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.520 of defining a national literature, and of course he felt 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.000 he was the best person to do that. But Poe 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.359 was unimpressed, asking a friend, quote, have you seen Griswold's 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.920 book of poetry? It is a most outrageous humbug. 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.600 So there's only one problem here, right, Like, this is 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.840 the anthology that Poe himself is in. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.360 Yeah, but he just disagreed with Griswold's other editorial choices. 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.679 And weirdly, despite knowing this, Griswald paid Poe to write 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.880 a review of the anthology, and then, perhaps because there 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.800 was money involved, Poe's review was a lot less harsh 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.360 than his private comments about the book, but a few 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.439 months later, another review of the anthology appeared in a 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.119 Philadelphia magazine. This one was anonymous, and in addition to 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.280 calling Griswold's book quote nonsense, it called Griswold himself a 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.840 toady who was destined to sink into oblivion. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.159 I love all these old time insults, right, like a 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.880 humbug tody sink into oblivion. Yeah, and so I leve 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.760 you guess was this Poe as well? Not exactly. That 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:25.720 vicious review turned out to have been written by a 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.080 guy named Henry B. Hurst, who was one of Poe's friends. 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.159 Griswold definitely thought Poe was behind it, and in a 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.399 way it might have been right. Hurst was probably repeating 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.440 a lot of things that Poe had told him. So 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.119 does Poe try to patch things up here? No? 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:40.040