1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what, Mary, what's that mango? Did you 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: know that Mark Twain absolutely hated Jane Austen? 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: Huh? 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 3: Let me guess he thought Elizabeth Bennett would have ditched 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 3: mister Darcy and gone rafting down the Thames. 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: I mean, that would have been an amazing book. But no, 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: he just thought Austin was a terrible writer. He wants 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: to hold a friend. Quote. Every time I read Pride 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: and Prejudice, I want to dig her up and beat 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: her over the skull with her own shin bone. 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know, right, yikes. But wait a minute, 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 3: Wait a minute. He read it multiple times, this book 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: that he hated so much. 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: I guess Mark Twain invented hate reading. I mean, it's 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: one of his lesser known accomplishments. But it got me 17 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: thinking about other crazy feuds. And then I realized, Twain 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: versus Austin isn't actually a feud at all. 19 00:00:57,960 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: What do you mean? 20 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: So? According to the Day Dictionary, a feud is quote 21 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: a mutual enmity or quarrel that is often prolonged and 22 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: Jane Austen died years before Mark Twain was born, so 23 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: there was nothing mutual about it. He was just being 24 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: snarky after her death. 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: Huh. 26 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 3: So rule number one a feuding make sure your opponent 27 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 3: is still alive. 28 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it is a good rule. But we've got 29 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: some actual feuds to talk about on today's episode, and 30 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: some of them are pretty wild. So let's get started. Hey, 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm mongas Shittigula, 32 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: and today I'm joined by my producer extraordinary Mary Philip Sandy. 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: And over there behind that soundproof glass sticking pins through 34 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: photos of his enemies, and he sure has a lot 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: of enemies. That's our producer, Dylan Fagan. I gotta say, 36 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: I did not expect Dylan to have beef with the 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: great character actor Judy Greer. 38 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, or Olympic figure skater Brian Boyce. Out what what 39 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: is happening? 40 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: Oh he's holding off a sign now it says Brian 41 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: and Judy know what they did? Good? 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: Ah, Okay, well it sort of makes sense now, I guess, 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 3: but I am curious. 44 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: You know, today's episode is all about feuds. Have you 45 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: ever had a feud of any sort? 46 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 3: I had a feud in first grade, and it was 47 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 3: very serious and should we bleep his name? 48 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: His name was Kenny lives in Still we can bleep that, 49 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: we can bleep that. 50 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 3: There was a competition to read books, and there were 51 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 3: paper ice cream cones put on the walls of the 52 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 3: classroom and every time you read a book, you had 53 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 3: a scoop out of your ice cream cone. Whoever had 54 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 3: the highest scoop at the end of the year was 55 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 3: going to get a prize. Kevin was reading little kid 56 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: books I'm talking bored books, and he was racking. I 57 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: was reading chapter books in first grade. I was reading 58 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 3: Little House on the Prairie. It's longer, it takes more time. 59 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: And I went to my first grade teacher, Missus Davis, 60 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 3: if you're listening, and I said, this isn't fair, and 61 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 3: she said, a book is a book and sat there 62 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 3: and laughed. 63 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: You know what I noticed. Yeah, we didn't have to 64 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: beat missus Davis's name out. 65 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: She's dead. 66 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 3: Oh no, well, miss David, Yes, I carry a grudge 67 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: about that to this day. I learned an important lesson 68 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: at age seven in first grade, and. 69 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: That's that life is very unfair. Yeah about you? How 70 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: about you? 71 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you know that scene I don't know if 72 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: you've seen it, but in the Bulls documentary where Michael 73 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: Jordan makes up that feud with someone and he's like, 74 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: and I took that personally, like it's an event that 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: never takes place. He makes it up in his mind, 76 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: so he plays better. I feel like I have a 77 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: lot of feuds with people don't know they're in fuds 78 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: with me. Huh, Okay, not a lot, but like when 79 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: we started Mental Flaws, there was another magazine that was 80 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,839 Speaker 1: so much shinier and so much prettier and so much 81 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: better made, and we had this like rivalry with them, 82 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: but it was so one sided and they never knew 83 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: about us, and so like, I feel like that type 84 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: of thing happened. 85 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: A well, maybe they're kicking themselves now looking back on it. 86 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know maybe. Anyway, let's talk about some real feuds. 87 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: Let's talk about some. 88 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 3: Real feuds that don't involve magazines or you know, cheating 89 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 3: seven year olds. Okay, well, here's a ninety four year 90 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: old literary feud that is still being debated today, and 91 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 3: it involves the authors Langston Hughes and Zora Neil Hurston. 92 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 3: So they met in New York during the Harlem Renaissance, 93 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: and they became close friends and really great supporters of 94 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: each other's work, which I think is probably the opposite 95 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: of a feud, right yeah, yeah, that was actually a 96 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 3: beautiful friendship. 97 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: Is the technical death of what that was. 98 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 3: But it all began to fall apart in nineteen thirty 99 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 3: when they tried to write a play together. So it 100 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: was a comedy ostensibly based on one of Hurston's unpublished 101 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 3: short stories called The Bone of Contention Foreshadowing, which in 102 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: turn was based on a folk tale that she had 103 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 3: heard in her Florida hometown. And then here's where things 104 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 3: get murky. Hughes thought they would finish the play together, 105 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: but while she was away on a trip, Hurston rewrote 106 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 3: the script herself. She titled it Mule Bone and submitted 107 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 3: it for copyright registration in her name only. She also 108 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: sent her draft to the author Carl van Vechten, who 109 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 3: turned around and sent it to the Theater Guild, which 110 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: was an organization that produced plays on Broadway, including many 111 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 3: by well known authors at the time. 112 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: And so did herson know he was going to do 113 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: this like submit it to this group? 114 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: No, No, she had no idea he was going to 115 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 3: share it with anyone, But now all of a sudden 116 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 3: it's out there and people are talking about this play 117 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 3: and Langston Hughes is like, wait, what I mean? 118 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: I'm sure he said it more more eloquently than that, 119 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 2: because he's Likenston used that was. 120 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: The gist of it, right, And at first he said 121 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 3: he was just disappointed that the collaboration didn't continue. But 122 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 3: apparently he had stronger feelings than that, because next thing 123 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 3: you know, he has combined Hurston's second act of the 124 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: play with his versions of the first and the third acts. 125 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 3: And then he sent that whole thing off to the 126 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: copyright office again, this time with both of their names 127 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 3: on the cover. 128 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: So there are two versions of the same play now, 129 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: like both copyright. 130 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, exactly exactly, And then he hired a lawyer 131 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: and started commanding credit and royalty. Sure, and Hurston pointed 132 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 3: out that the story was her idea in the first place, 133 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: and Hughes hadn't participated in the rewrite that she had 134 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: done herself. She also added that he'd borrowed some of 135 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: her ideas for his novel Not Without Laughter, and she 136 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: hadn't been going around demanding credit. 137 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: And you know, looking back on. 138 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 3: It, some people today read this as Hurston being selfish 139 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 3: or petty. But if you look at the context and 140 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 3: you look at it another way, what she was doing 141 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 3: was fighting for control of her work, and that was 142 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 3: the struggle she knew all too well. 143 00:06:58,839 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: During her career. 144 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 3: She had this wealthy white patron named Charlotte Osgood Mason 145 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 3: who gave her a lot of money, but it came 146 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: with a lot of strings attached. She owned a lot 147 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 3: of the work that she did. And this guy, Carl 148 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: van Vechten, he gave her play draft to producers without 149 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 3: even asking if it was okay to do that. So 150 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: maybe this question of authorship was just kind of the 151 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 3: final straw. 152 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. But did the two of them 153 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: ever work it out? Like, did they conference? 154 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: Nope? That was the end of it. 155 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: The hol debacle ended their friendship, and many years later, 156 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: in the eighties, Henry Lewis Gates dug out the different 157 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: versions of Mulebone and combined them into a production script, 158 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 3: and the play made its debut in New York in 159 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one. 160 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: Huh, I feel like I've never heard of this was 161 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: any good? 162 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: Not really it. 163 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: Got very mixed reviews, and basically critics felt that this 164 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: Franken script didn't accurately reflect either Hurston or Hughes's real talent. 165 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: That is a shame. 166 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: What is it? 167 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: A camel? 168 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: Is a horse made by committee or something? Yeah, I 169 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: feel like maybe this is the camel of their play. 170 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that. But you know, the way I 171 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 3: see it, this story behind the play is the most 172 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: compelling drama of all. So I am hoping that someday 173 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 3: someone will turn that into a play and we can 174 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 3: see it on Broadway. 175 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: Someday. 176 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: I'm into it. Well, I've got another story of a 177 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: friendship gone wrong. This one takes us all the way 178 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: back to eighteenth century Europe and involves Jean Jacques Rousseau, 179 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: who is a philosopher from Geneva and wrote several popular novels, 180 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: but his radical views actually got him in trouble. For 181 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: one thing, he believed that all religions are equal, and 182 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: the Church obviously considered this heresy at the time, so 183 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: he was condemned by Genevan authorities and by many people 184 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: he'd consider friends. In fact, he actually had to skip 185 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: down to avoid being arrested. 186 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: So it was like the Enlightenment version of getting canceled. 187 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, cancel culture was so much worse back then. Meanwhile, 188 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: the Scottish philosopher David Hume heard about Rousseau's struggles and 189 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: he could actually relate. Hume was a religious skeptic and 190 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church had banned his books, but unlike Rousseau, 191 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: he wasn't ostracized by his establishment friends. So Hume decided 192 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: to use his connections to help Russeau relocate to England. 193 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: He actually convinced King George the Third to provide a 194 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: pension for him. He arranged lodgings and even met him 195 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: in Paris to travel to the UK, and at first 196 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: Rousseau was pretty grateful. I mean he settled in a 197 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: house in Staffordshire where he seemed, you know, pretty happy, 198 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: And that could have been the end of it, except 199 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: two things happen. So one Russeau has a notoriously bad 200 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: temper and two there's an ill advised prank letter that 201 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: gets into play. 202 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: A prank letter. 203 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: I did not see that coming. What happened. So this 204 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: letter began circulating in the British press. It was ostensibly 205 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: a message from Frederick to the Great, the King of Prussia, 206 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: and it offered Rousseau safe haven. But the whole thing 207 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: was just poking fun at the controversies. One of the 208 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: lines went quote, it is high time to grow prudent 209 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: and happy. You've made yourself sufficiently talked of for singularities 210 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: little becoming a truly great man. 211 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 2: The King of Prussia wrote that. 212 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: No, it was the English writer Horace Walpole, and he 213 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: was trying to be funny. Rousseau was furious by this, 214 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: but he also knew that Walpole and Hume were friends, 215 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: so he started with the accusations right now. Hume denied 216 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: knowing anything about this, but Rousseau was convinced he was involved, 217 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: and he got so mad he even refused to accept 218 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: the royal pension that Hume had arranged for him, which 219 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: you know, feels insane to me, but I guess he 220 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: was a man of principle anyway. After exchanging these scathing letters, 221 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: Rousseau accused Hume of plotting to destroy him. 222 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: That sounds a bit paranoid. 223 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, but remember he'd spent all those years being persecuted, 224 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: so I guess it'd become kind of had it by 225 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: this point to be that paranoid, but eventually Rousseau writes 226 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: a letter that's so angry Hume starts to think he's 227 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: really gone over the edge. His friends advise him to 228 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: let it go, but he ignores them, and in October 229 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy six, less than a year after their friendship 230 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: had begun, Hume publishes his account of the conflict, including 231 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: the letters, and it becomes this giant he said, he 232 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: said scandal, with rumors flying about who knew what and 233 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: who said what, and in the end Rousseau actually leaves 234 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: England and he and Hume never speak again. 235 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: Wow. 236 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: Wow. 237 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: You know, when I think of eighteenth century philosopher's juicy, 238 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 3: drama is not the first thing that comes to mind. 239 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 3: But I guess I've been wrong this whole time. Well, 240 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 3: from drama to comedy, although this comedy also involves drama. 241 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: Did you know that Abbott and Costello had an off 242 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 3: stage feud? 243 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: So the main thing I knew about abd and Costello 244 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: other than the Who's on first routine is that Leu 245 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: Costello was a kleptomaniac, really, and I remember this from 246 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: an old mental article, that he used to steal so 247 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: much furniture and so many props from sets that people 248 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: used to claim his house was furnished in early Universal 249 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: as in Universal Studios. But I knew they weren't exactly 250 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: the best of friends. 251 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 3: But tell me about this few Okay, So during their 252 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 3: heyday in the nineteen forties, Abbot and Costello they were 253 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 3: the most popular comedians in the country, in the highest paid, too. 254 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 3: But their act began as an accident. Luke Costello had 255 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 3: another partner who didn't show up for a performance one night. 256 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 3: So but Abbot stepped in to play the straight man 257 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: for him, and that's it. 258 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: The rest is history. 259 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: Abbot was actually considered one of the best straight men 260 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: of all time, and so for a while he took 261 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 3: sixty percent of the duo's earnings. Eventually, Costello demanded more, 262 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: and there's even a rumor that he tried to get 263 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 3: the order of their names reversed in the credits of movies. 264 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: That's amazing. First of all, it's amazing that like a 265 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: straight man could demand more money. You know, you don't 266 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: expect that. But also, Costello and Abbot just sounds wrong. 267 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why no one changed it. 268 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 3: I think if it had sounded right, we'd have heard 269 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 3: about it, but as their fame grew, their differences just 270 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 3: became more and more apparent. Abbot was kind of easy going, 271 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 3: he enjoyed the finer things in life. Costello was more 272 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 3: uptight and anxious. He sometimes worried that Abbot hadn't done 273 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 3: enough to prepare when they were rehearsing new material. And 274 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 3: it all came to a head in nineteen forty five, 275 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 3: but not because of anything showbiz related. Apparently, Costello fired 276 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: his maid and Abbot hired her. So I'm waiting for 277 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 3: a punchline yet, No, no, there isn't one. 278 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 2: That's all it was. I mean, believe me. 279 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 3: I tried to find out if there's anything else, but 280 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 3: I think that's all it is. They just had an 281 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: argument about a maid, and for some reason they couldn't 282 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 3: get past it. And they were about to start a 283 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 3: run at the Roxy here in New York, so Costello 284 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 3: tried to rebook himself as a solo act. Abbot gets 285 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 3: wind of this and shows up at the theater. So 286 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 3: the shows go on as planned, but they only speak 287 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 3: to each other when they're on stage. The tension continued 288 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 3: into the fifties as their popularity declined, and in nineteen 289 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 3: fifty seven, they split up for real. Costello said later 290 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 3: that they had just gotten tired of the act doing 291 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 3: the same thing, but there may have been more to it. 292 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 3: Legendary film star Errol Flynn wrote in his memoir that 293 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: he had invited Abbot, Costello and their families to his 294 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 3: house for dinner, very nice. Afterwards, he offered to show 295 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 3: them a whole movie, but instead of vacation scenes, the 296 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 3: real ended up being a blue film like pornography. Yes, 297 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 3: just imagine Abbott Costello, their families unstar Errol Flynn with 298 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 3: surprise pornography. So everyone is horrified. Everyone is like, what 299 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 3: is going on? Errol Flynn pretended he didn't know what happened? 300 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: How did that get there? And so Abin and Costello 301 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: ended up blaming each other for the prank, the first 302 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 3: the maid thing and then the poor Yeah he was 303 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: the old one. Two made. 304 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: Such a weird way to end a business partnership. 305 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not even a very creative prank if 306 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: you think about it. 307 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: Well, speaking of creativity, you know what it is creative 308 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: is painting your rival space into a famous fresco. 309 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 3: That actually sounds more like a compliment to me. 310 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess it could be, but when 311 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: it came to Michelangelo and Rafael and obligatory note here 312 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: for our listeners, I am not referring to the Ninja turtles. 313 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, okay, so the actual not teenage Renaissance artists. 314 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: Okay, So yeah, no martial arts here. Now. Michlangelo was 315 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: a legend in his own time, but he was not 316 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: an easygoing guy. He actually had these intense rivalries with 317 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: many other artists, including Leonardo da Vinci, and he was 318 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: known for being difficult and ill tempered. But Rafael, who 319 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: was nearly a decade younger, really really got under his skin. 320 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: So in fifteen oh eight, Pope Julius the Second chose 321 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: Rafael to paint a fresco in his private library. And 322 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: not only was Michelangelo offended that he didn't get the gig, 323 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: he then had to hear everyone praising Rafael's work, and 324 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: there were some people who said Rafael was the better artist, 325 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: even though they knew Michelangelo was one of his biggest influences. So, 326 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: according to one biographer, Michlangelo lashed out, making the younger 327 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: man quote bear the brunt of his unrelenting envy, contempt, 328 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: and anger. 329 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 2: So how did Raphael take this? 330 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: Not lying down? So, in one of his frescoes for 331 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: Pope Julius, Rafael painted Michelangelo's face onto the body of Heraclitis, 332 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: an ancient Greek philosopher who he depicted in a gathering 333 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: with Socrates, Aristotle, and Plato. 334 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: That still sounds like a compliment, though. 335 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: Except hera Clitis was widely known as a bitter and 336 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: arrogant misanthrowt. 337 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: Okay okay, okay, I get it now. 338 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: But it turns out this was a real two way feud. 339 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: So Raphael snuck into the Cystinine Chapel before Michelangelo finished 340 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: the famous ceilings so he could see what his rival 341 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: was up to. And it said that the muscular figures 342 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: of God and Adam inspired Rafael to actually beef up 343 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: his own subjects. And the conflict grew as Rafael won 344 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: more and more commissions. And unlike Michelangelo, he was just 345 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: well liked and social. He's really good at old timey 346 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: schmoozing with patrons and important people in the clergy. And 347 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: in fifteen fifteen, just a few years after Michelangelo finished 348 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: the Sistine frescoes. Rafael was actually asked to design elaborate 349 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: tapestries for the chapel's walls. Now, some of them have 350 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: since been damaged or loss, but back then the complete tapestries, 351 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: which were woven with real gold and silver thread, were 352 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: probably the most eye catching art in the Cistine Chapel, 353 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: not the ceiling. Wow is actually hard to imagine, right, 354 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: but it is true anyway. It's safe to assume the 355 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: feud would have continued if Rafael hadn't died suddenly in 356 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty. Of course, Michelangelo was not one to let 357 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: things go, and he summed up Rafael's life by writing, quote, 358 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: what he had of art he had for me? 359 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 2: Wow? Way to get the last word in. 360 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 3: Well, that's actually the perfect lead into our next feud 361 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 3: between the famous author Edgar Allan Poe and the much 362 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 3: less famous editor Rufus Griswold. 363 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: Which one of them? Have you heard of? 364 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: The first? 365 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: Okay? 366 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: So they met in eighteen forty one, and apparently they 367 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: never really liked each other very much. Griswold, who came 368 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 3: from a religious New England family, looked down on Poe 369 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 3: as an immoral social climber whose talent didn't match his reputation, 370 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: and although he occasionally complimented his work, Poe thought Griswold 371 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 3: was just way too full of himself, which he kind 372 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 3: of was. But they kept up a polite appearance. They 373 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 3: moved in the same circles. They could be nice if 374 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 3: they had to, and Griswold even included some of Poe's 375 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 3: work in an anthology he published called The Poets and 376 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: Poetry of America. So Griswold was really into this idea 377 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 3: of defining a national literature, and of course he felt 378 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: he was the best person to do that. But Poe 379 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 3: was unimpressed, asking a friend, quote, have you seen Griswold's 380 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 3: book of poetry? It is a most outrageous humbug. 381 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: So there's only one problem here, right, Like, this is 382 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: the anthology that Poe himself is in. 383 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, but he just disagreed with Griswold's other editorial choices. 384 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 3: And weirdly, despite knowing this, Griswald paid Poe to write 385 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 3: a review of the anthology, and then, perhaps because there 386 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 3: was money involved, Poe's review was a lot less harsh 387 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 3: than his private comments about the book, but a few 388 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 3: months later, another review of the anthology appeared in a 389 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 3: Philadelphia magazine. This one was anonymous, and in addition to 390 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 3: calling Griswold's book quote nonsense, it called Griswold himself a 391 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 3: toady who was destined to sink into oblivion. 392 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: I love all these old time insults, right, like a 393 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: humbug tody sink into oblivion. Yeah, and so I leve 394 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: you guess was this Poe as well? Not exactly. That 395 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: vicious review turned out to have been written by a 396 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: guy named Henry B. Hurst, who was one of Poe's friends. 397 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: Griswold definitely thought Poe was behind it, and in a 398 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: way it might have been right. Hurst was probably repeating 399 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: a lot of things that Poe had told him. So 400 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: does Poe try to patch things up here? No? 401 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: He did the opposite. 402 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: No. 403 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: He went on to criticize Griswold and his anthology at 404 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 3: every possible opportunity, Like anytime he was giving a lecture, anything, 405 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 3: he was sure to get in how bad Griswold and 406 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 3: his taste was. But there may have been a romantic 407 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 3: rivalry a play here too. 408 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: Let me guess it was at Costello's maid. 409 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 3: No, no, God, that would have been perfect. But no, 410 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 3: both men had relationships with a poet named Francis sargent Osgoode, 411 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: who was separated from her husband. 412 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: And I know we said earlier. 413 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 3: That a feud involves two living parties, but this one 414 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 3: continued long after Pos's death in eighteen forty nine. 415 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: Is that tell me about it? 416 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 3: So, days after Poe died, an obituary appeared in the 417 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 3: New York Tribune. It was attributed to someone named Ludwig, 418 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 3: but it did not read like a normal, respectful obituary. 419 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 3: What it said was, quote, Edgar Allan Poe is dead. 420 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 3: He died in Baltimore the day before yesterday. This announcement 421 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 3: will startle many, but few will be grieved by it. 422 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 3: Oh Griswold, Yeah, yeah, yeah. The pseudonym did not fool anyone. 423 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 3: And from that point on, Griswold leaned into his role 424 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 3: of the world's number one Edgar Allan Poe hater, and 425 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 3: through some backhanded deals with Poe's mother in law, Griswold 426 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: actually managed to get the rights to some of his work, 427 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: and he published a posthumous collection in three volumes. He 428 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: claimed that sales of the books would benefit Pos's family, 429 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 3: but he kept the proceeds for himself. No, No, it 430 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 3: gets worse. Griswold and included in this collection a wildly 431 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 3: inaccurate biography of Poe titled Memoir of the Author, and 432 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 3: in it he depicted Poe as a raving lunatic who 433 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 3: was hopelessly addicted to drugs and alcohol. Weirdest of all, 434 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 3: he included a bunch of forged letters allegedly from Poe 435 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 3: to support his own lies. Others who knew Poe crazy, 436 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 3: Others who knew Poe tried to defend him in the press, 437 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 3: but Griswold's smear campaign was just incredibly effective and wide reaching. 438 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: His facts air quote. 439 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 3: About Poe influenced the way people saw him for years, 440 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 3: and it wasn't until decades later that other biographers came 441 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: along and started to correct the record. 442 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: That is so funny, you know, I'd always heard that 443 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: Poe was an alcoholic, and there's this weird story about 444 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: him that I've seen written in a lot of books, 445 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: actually about him as a West Point cadet. Have you 446 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: heard this? 447 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 3: I don't, I mean, listen, he did drink, but no, 448 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 3: I don't think so. Tell me about West Point. 449 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: So apparently he was really unhappy there, So when the 450 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: cadets were ordered to show up to a parade in 451 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: some fancy belts, he showed up in nothing but the 452 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: belt and Tom got himself kicked out. But you know, 453 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: now I'm wondering if Griswold actually might have been behind 454 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: that story as well. Anyway, we are going to transfer 455 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: from the world of American letters to the world of 456 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: German grocery stores now, because our next feud begins in Essen, 457 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: Germany in the nineteen twenties. This is where a working 458 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: class family called the Albrechts ran a small grocery store. 459 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: They had two sons, Carl and Theodore, and they stood 460 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: out from other local shops by keeping prices as low 461 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: as possible. Now, Carl and Theo were conscripted during World 462 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: War Two. They were captured early on and survived as 463 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: prisoners and Allied pow camps. But when they got home 464 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: they take over the family business. They had no money, 465 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: and in a post war Germany there were constant food shorges. 466 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 3: Sounds like this was not the best time to go 467 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 3: into the grocery business. 468 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: Then, yeah, except it kind of was. So the Albrets 469 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: had no choice but to stock basics like noodles and soap, 470 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: and they developed a focus on cutting cops. So one 471 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: of the first things they did was to get rid 472 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: of counter clerks. Back then, you'd go up to a counter, 473 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: you tell a clerk what you wanted. They'd go back 474 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: on the shelves and bring it out to you. But 475 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: the Albrecks adopted the American self service approach to shopping, 476 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: and fewer employees meant a lower cost of business, and 477 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: I guess higher unemployment in the counter clerk demographic, but 478 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: I guess that wasn't really their concern. 479 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 3: You know, if those self checkout machines had existed back then, 480 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 3: I guarantee the Albrech brothers would have been all over. 481 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: It, definitely, And thanks to their capitalist savvy, the Allbreck's 482 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: business takes off right By the nineteen fifties, they owned 483 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: over a dozen stores. The enterprise continues to grow even 484 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: though they refused to spend money on advertising, and by 485 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty they had hundreds of stores throughout Germany, and 486 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: they changed the name to ALDI, which is an abbreviation 487 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: of Albrech Discount or Allbrech Discount. But in nineteen sixty 488 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: one this grocery empire nearly collapses when the two brothers 489 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: have a falling out over cigarette. Apparently, THEO thought they 490 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: should carry them, and Carl said absolutely nine. Wow, So was. 491 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 3: Carl just like way ahead of his time in terms 492 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 3: of knowing about the dangers of smoking. 493 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: No, he thought that cigarettes would actually attract shoplifters. Okay, 494 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: this debate actually splits the brothers and the company they 495 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: had built split apart. But in true Allbrech spirit, let's 496 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: focus on our own business for a minute and throw 497 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: to an ad break, and I'll tell you the rest 498 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: of the story right after. Welcome back to part time Genius, 499 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: where we're talking about a few of history's most fascinating feuds. 500 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 3: Okay, and before the break, you were telling me about 501 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 3: the Albreched brothers and their disagreement about selling cigarettes in 502 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: their grocery stores. 503 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: So okay, what happens, Well, Carl and THEO never come 504 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: to an agreement, so they split the business in half. 505 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: Literally like they took a map and drew a line 506 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: through Germany, using their hometown of Essen as the boundary, 507 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: and THEO took all the stores north of the line, 508 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: calling them Aldi Nord and Carl takes the one south 509 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: of the line, Aldi Sud. From then on they operate 510 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: completely separately. The brothers developed different logos carry different products, 511 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: both under the name Aldi, but many believed the cigarettes 512 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: weren't the only reason for the split. Apparently, THEO was 513 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: a real micromanager and Carl, on the other hand, was 514 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: more laid back. He liked to delegate and he enjoyed 515 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: spending time with his own family. 516 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see how that would cause friction. But still, 517 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 3: I mean they're brothers, right, So did they ever repair 518 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 3: the rift? 519 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: I mean, they don't end up working together, but they 520 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: are on friendly terms. There was even a crazy situation 521 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one where THEO got kidnapped and held 522 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: for ransom and Carl Yeah, I mean Karl pays millions 523 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: of Deutsche marks to secure his release. But to this day, 524 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: Aldia's two separate businesses. Both haves operate in Germany, but 525 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,959 Speaker 1: elsewhere it's divided by country. So if you live in 526 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: Italy or the UK, you shop Aldi Sud. In France 527 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: and Spain, that's Aldi Nord. 528 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 3: Well, not to make everything about America, but what about America. 529 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: Well, if you're shopping in an Aldi in the States. 530 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: Aldi Sud expanded into the US in nineteen seventy six, 531 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: but not to be outdone, Aldi Nord actually purchased the 532 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: Trader Joe's chain in nineteen seventy nine to gain its 533 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: own foothold here. What. 534 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I had no idea a German supermarket chain owned 535 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 3: Trader Joe's. 536 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's all because a guy named Carl was 537 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: worried about shoplifters. 538 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 3: He should have been worried about someone kidnapping his brothers. 539 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 3: What he should have been worried about. Well, anyway, that 540 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 3: is incredible. Okay, So I want to tell you about 541 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 3: a disk track that made history by setting off hip 542 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 3: hop's first recorded feud. And it all began in Queens 543 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 3: in the early eighties, where a young girl named Chante 544 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 3: Gooden heard people rhyming and holding impromptu rap battles. So 545 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 3: she started free styling too, and it turned out she 546 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 3: was a natural talent. Even as a middle schooler. She 547 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 3: was going out and winning battles at local clubs, beating 548 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 3: men twice her age. 549 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: That's amazing and I can see how that might start 550 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: some funing. 551 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 3: Well, actually, this feud that I'm talking about began in 552 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four when a Brooklyn hip hop group called 553 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 3: UTFO released a single called Hanging Out, which flopped, but 554 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,959 Speaker 3: the B side was a song called Roxanne Roxanne, and 555 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 3: it started getting a lot of radio play. In that song, 556 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: a woman named Roxanne gives the rappers her number, only 557 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 3: to stand them up at the end. So it's kind 558 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 3: of a twist. You know, they're not bragging about getting 559 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 3: the girl, they're explaining how they didn't. But with their 560 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 3: popularity growing, UTFO hottest ticket in town. They agreed to 561 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 3: perform at a concert promoted by Mister Magic, who's a 562 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 3: famous New York DJ with a radio show called Rap Attack, 563 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 3: and coincidentally, Chante Gooden's neighbor, Marlon Williams also worked on 564 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 3: Rap Attack and he and mister Magic were counting on 565 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 3: this concert to bring in some money. But then at 566 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 3: the last minute, UTFO cancel. I don't know. Chante happened 567 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 3: to hear Williams bemoaning the situation and just offered to 568 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 3: retaliate with the dis track. 569 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: They recorded a song together. 570 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 2: Well, at first. 571 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 3: Williams was like, what are you talking about, kid, Just like, 572 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: let me record a distrack to make off rest situation. 573 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 3: This kid comes by, but he changed his mind. He said, 574 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 3: you know what, all right, kid, come up to my apartment. 575 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 3: We'll record a song, and he played the beat from Roxanne. 576 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 3: Roxanne and Chante freestyled over it, absolutely destroying the three 577 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 3: members of UTFO. And she did it from the perspective 578 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 3: of Roxanne, right, the woman in their song. And Williams, 579 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 3: who went by the name Marley Marl, called the song 580 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 3: Roxanne's Revenge, and he played the tape on Rap Attack. 581 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 3: It was an overnight sensation. 582 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: First of all, that sounds so literary, like I'm going 583 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: to do it from the perspective of Roxanne and also 584 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: disalterate guy. It's amazing that she just went up there 585 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: and freestyled it. 586 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 3: Well, she came from the world of rap battles, right, 587 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 3: and so she said later quote in battles, I was 588 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: rhyming for thirty to forty minutes, so four minutes was 589 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 3: nothing for me. And this DIY track sent shockwaves through 590 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 3: the hip hop community. As Williams put it later, nobody 591 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 3: had ever heard a girl rap like that before. So 592 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 3: does UTFO answer back to oh, of course, of course, 593 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 3: what are you gonna do? Not respond? So one of 594 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 3: the members. The rapper Kengl Kid told Billboard magazine years 595 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 3: later that their first reaction to Roxane's revenge was, You're 596 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 3: not even the girl we were talking about. She doesn't 597 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 3: even exist. They just made up this character, right. The 598 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 3: problem was that Shante attacked the UTFO members by name, 599 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 3: and she does. She calls them out by name, one 600 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 3: by one, and as kennggl Kid put it, we do exist. 601 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 3: So we took that personally. So they went out and 602 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 3: found another female MC to record a response called the 603 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 3: Real ro Sand And people just couldn't get enough of 604 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: this feud. All the songs are climbing the charts and 605 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 3: responses start to pour in. It's like every rapper wants 606 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: to have a say in the Roxane wars. So there 607 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 3: are songs like Roxy Parenthesis, Roxanne's Sister, The Parents of 608 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 3: roxand and my personal favorite, the final word, no More 609 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 3: Roxanne Please, which includes this great line quote, don't you 610 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 3: know all the DJs are going insane because they're tired 611 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: of hearing that same old name. 612 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: I love that people have a feud with this feud. 613 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: So what actually happens to a chante. 614 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: Well, she blew up. 615 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 3: I mean she became famous and she started performing under 616 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 3: the stage name Roxanne Chante. She even went on tour. 617 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 3: Of course, listen, you got to ride it right. You 618 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 3: can't let an opportunity like that go. So she even 619 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: started touring and sharing a bill with UTFO because promoters 620 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 3: knew the feud would sell tickets. She and UTFO never 621 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 3: spoke backstage, and according to Kangole Kid, there were quote 622 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 3: lots of glares and snarls. She went on to release 623 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 3: a couple albums in the early nineties, but then her 624 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 3: career faded. She went through some really tough times. She 625 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 3: survived in an abusive relationship, and there were financial problems 626 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: caused by managers who she had trusted. I mean, remember 627 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 3: she was so young. But in recent years she's been 628 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 3: back in the spotlight. She released a few new singles, 629 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 3: and she's hosting a serious XM show called Have an 630 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 3: Eye Stay. And in just a few weeks she will 631 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 3: receive the Lifetime Achievement Award at the twenty twenty five Grammys, 632 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 3: alongside Prince and the Clash. 633 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: That is amazing and not bad company. 634 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 2: Well deserved, well deserved. 635 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: So for our final feud, I want to make sure 636 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: we get a sports rivalry in here, and there are 637 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: so many sports feuds it is hard to choose just one, 638 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: but I decided to go with a feud between Andrea 639 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: Agassy and Pete Saprez. So I'm sure anyone who's our 640 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: age really knows. They dominated the men's tennis circuit in 641 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, and they couldn't have been more different, right. 642 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: Agasy was flashy and aggressive, both in his playing style 643 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: and his wardrobe. He pushed the boundaries by wearing neon 644 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: and acid washed denin schwartz on the court. He also 645 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: kept his hair in a shaggy mullet that he held back 646 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: with this bandana. 647 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,479 Speaker 3: Hey yeah, no, no, no, I know we all made fashion 648 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 3: mistakes in the nineties. 649 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: But people obviously loved it. And Pete Sampras meanwhile, had 650 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: this clean cut image. He stuck to traditionalness whites and 651 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: played with incredible precision, and while Agaze liked to win 652 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: by hitting powerful returns from the baseline, Sampress was known 653 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,959 Speaker 1: for his punishing serve, which earned them the nickname Pistol Pete. Anyway, 654 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: they played each other for the first time in nineteen 655 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: ninety and went on to compete thirty four times until 656 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: they retired in the early two thousands, but while they 657 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: were active, sports writers described their relationship as a friendly 658 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: feud based on competition, not on personal grudges. In nineteen 659 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: ninety five, Sampress told a journalist that's just how Americans 660 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: perceive sports. He said, quote, I think people like to 661 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: see contrasts like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. 662 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 3: That's a very astute comment. But this also doesn't sound 663 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 3: like a very exciting feud. It's just sports competition, right. 664 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're right, right, Like when they play 665 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: each other, it's something to watch. But it wasn't much 666 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: to it off the courts. That is until two thousand 667 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: and nine when Agassie publishes his memoir Open, which is 668 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: one of my favorite books, and in it he had 669 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: harsh words for Sampress, calling him quote more robotic than parrot. 670 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: I actually have to read you this other quote because 671 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: it is so incredible. Quote. I envy Pete's dullness. I 672 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: wish I could emulate his spectacular lack of inspiration and 673 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: his peculiar lack of need for inspiration. 674 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: Geez, tell what you really think, you know? 675 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: So Agassi also called Sampras's stingy relating a story about 676 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: him tipping a valet a single dollar, and when reporters 677 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: asked Sampriss about it, he said he wanted to meet 678 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: with Agasy quote men to men. Now, this doesn't actually happen, 679 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: and in twenty ten, the feud really blows up. Sampras 680 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: and Agasy meet for a charity match in California. It's 681 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: this doubles game. Sapris is paired with Roger Fetter, Agassy 682 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: with Raphael and Nadal, and the players wear microphone headsets 683 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: so the crowd can hear their banter. And even though 684 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: it's just a charity match, Sampriss starts bashing his serves, 685 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: so Agassi starts teasing him, saying, quote, you always have 686 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: to get serious, and Sampress yells back, quote, I'll joke 687 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: around a little bit. I'll imitate you. 688 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 2: Wow. 689 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: Whoever decided to put MIC's on these guys was either 690 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 3: panicking or cheering in that moment, like they were either 691 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 3: super excited or super terrified. 692 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: So if you watch the tape, the audience is laughing 693 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: like they think this is all in great fun. But 694 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: Sampress starts doing this exaggerated pigeon tooe walk like if 695 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: you've ever seen an xy walk. He his feet are 696 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: turned in and he sort of walks that way, and 697 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: so Aggasi retaliates by pulling out the empty pockets of 698 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: his pants and whining, I don't have any money. Oh 699 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: no weight, I've got a dollar. 700 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 2: Was this a roaster a tennis match? 701 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: Both apparently, so fetter and a doll are just standing 702 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: there awkwardly waiting for Sampris to serve. He's kind of chuckling, 703 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: but you can tell he's mad, and Agassi taunson. So 704 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: Sampress unleashes his serf, but not to Nadal, who's on 705 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: the receiving side, but directly at Agassy jumps out of 706 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: the way just in time. 707 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know. 708 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: And he's got a real bl of a serve right, 709 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: So this is incredible. Agassie just keeps going. He makes 710 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: another crack about Sampress and the valet before everyone calms 711 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: down and finishes the game, which Sampress and Feeder end 712 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: up winning. But luckily, this feud has a happy ending. 713 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: So the next day, Agassie tells ESPN that his jokes 714 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: were quote out of line, and he adds that he 715 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: had texted Sampras and has to apologize in person. It's 716 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: not clear if that happened, but a year later they 717 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: meet again for an exhibition match at Madison Square Garden. 718 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: Everyone was waiting for another outburst, but they were cordial. 719 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: They were even joking around together, like actually joking around 720 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: this time, and super friendly. 721 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 2: I no one got hit with a serf. 722 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. 723 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 3: Okay, getting hit with a Sampras serve would have been 724 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 3: god terrifying. 725 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's great. 726 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 3: You know what. 727 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 2: I like that story so much. 728 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 3: I would be willing to give you today's trophy, except 729 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 3: you're the one who started this whole episode about feuds 730 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 3: by telling me about a thing that actually wasn't really 731 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 3: a feud. 732 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: Well, I had a feeling you might say that, so 733 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,959 Speaker 1: I came with a backup fact, this one that comes 734 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty six. It's about the author Alice Hoffman, 735 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: who reviewed Richard Ford's novel The Sportswriter for the New 736 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: York Times and long story short, she didn't think it 737 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: was all that great. In response, Ford takes a copy 738 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: of one of Hoffman's novels into his backyard and shoots 739 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: a hole in it, and then mails it to her, 740 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: it became the stuff of literary legend, but Ford shrugged 741 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: it off, telling the Guardian, well, it's not like I 742 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: shot her. Oh my god. 743 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay. 744 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 3: That is a trophy worthy feud for sure, So congratulations, 745 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 3: it is all yours. 746 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: Well, I feel like we should end this on the 747 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: best of terms and share this week's trophy arguing about it. 748 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: But that is it for today's episode. Remember you can 749 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at the handle part time Genius, 750 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: and you can still write Will's mom and my mom 751 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: at pggenius moms at gmail dot com. Seriously, it is 752 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 1: a brand new year and they are waiting for your mail. 753 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: But from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary, and myself, thank you 754 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: so much for listening. Part Time Genius is a production 755 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 1: of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted by Will 756 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: Pearson and me Mongaystikler, and research by our goodpal Mary 757 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered and produced by the 758 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,240 Speaker 1: wonderful Dylan Fagan with support from Tyler Klang. The show 759 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: is executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, 760 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: with social media support from Sasha Gay trustee Dara Potts 761 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: and buy Me Shorey. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, 762 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 763 00:37:53,120 --> 00:38:05,359 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.