1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Hey, This week we have a very special episode my 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: interview with Troy Carter at the Music Media Summit in 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Santa Barbara, California. Yes, today, Troy is director of Creative 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Services that Spotify, really spearheading change in the music business. 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: But before that he was a manager. He managed Lady Gaga, 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Broke Lady Gaga. What John legend Back has done so 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: many things with acts. You're gonna hear about his ops 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: and his downs. Troy is completely honest. I know you'll 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: love this. So, Troy, how did you get into this 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: crazy business? I started off just as a kid in 11 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: West Billy. Uh grew up loving hip hop music and 12 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: hip hop culture. Um. I wanted to be a rapper. 13 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to write graffiti. I wanted to be a breakdancer. 14 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: So anything that was immersive and hip hop culture, you know, 15 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: I just wanted to be around it. So you're not 16 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: a woman, I can ask this question. How old are 17 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: you today? Forty five? So when you get into it, 18 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: MTV ruled okay, But Philadelphia always had a heavy soul culture. 19 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: So how did you first get infected by music? But 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: we didn't we didn't have cable. We only had the 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: five channels and um, and we have Friday Night videos 22 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: and the USA Networkers on NBC. It was I forget 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: which network it was. It might have been NBC. David 24 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: Benjamin ran that I remember, but it was like, um, 25 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, it would come on late at night, and 26 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: it was before music was segregated, so you would watch 27 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: run Dy m C. You would watch Blondie, Michael Jackson, 28 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: Prince you know. So it was all types of music there. 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,639 Speaker 1: So it kind of exposed me to pop music, rock music. 30 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: But and you know, and and like I said, and 31 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: I love hip hop. So but it made me well 32 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: round it from from a music Was there music in 33 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: your house growing up? It's a ton of music in 34 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: my house growing up. So. Um. It was a station 35 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: in Philly called w d A S and UM, which 36 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: it was a local station. A guy named butter Ball 37 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: ran the station and um, but it was a lot 38 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: of the Philly International records, UM, a lot everything from Uh, 39 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: Marvin Gaye was big in our house. Earth Wind and 40 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: Fire was big. Um she Stevie Wonder. So I grew 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: up on a lot of souls. Did you play an 42 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: instrument growing up? Nope, didn't play an didn't play an instrument. Okay, 43 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: so you're listening to music and you're watching Friday Night videos. 44 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: At what point do you say I can do that? 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: You know what? My my, my brother and my cousin 46 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: they used to DJ and. Um, so I tried DJ 47 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: and I was terrible. And then I said, um, well, 48 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: maybe you know I'm gonna try to be a rapper. 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: So I so I started rapping. And in ninth grade, 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: me and my best friend had this idea. We met 51 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: in English class and we said, you know, if if 52 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: we ever meet Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince, they're gonna 53 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: give us a record deal. So we used to go 54 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: and and try to hang out at Jazzy Jeff's studio, 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: go down there almost every single day. Um, Jeff never 56 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: would let us into the studio. How many other people 57 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: were hanging out other than the two of you? It 58 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: just it was three. It was three of us. The 59 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: group was called too too many, and um we called 60 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: ourselves too too many because we only used to have 61 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: enough money for one of us. So so it was 62 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: three of us that used to hang out in front 63 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: of But when you were hanging out, uh where, there 64 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: are also a lot of other people want to be 65 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: hanging out at the studio. No, so they were all 66 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: inside the studio, so we were trying to get in, 67 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: so we would only want to bees and um so so, 68 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: and we sincerely had this idea like we were that 69 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: naive that we were gonna meet Jazzy Jeff and Fresh 70 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: Prince and they are going to give us a record deal. 71 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: And my best friend, he used to always say, thoughts 72 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: become things. You gotta think positive, you gotta think positive. 73 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: And one day they let us in and we auditioned 74 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: for him, and what happened. They gave us a record 75 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: deal with a lot of experience under your belt. This 76 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: is not the way the story usually goes. Do you 77 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: think you were deserving of a record deal? Yes, but 78 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: you know what, what we found out though that we sucked, 79 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: you know, so I think you know Will what Will? 80 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: We met Will Uh DJ, Jazzy Jeff and his manager 81 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: James Lasseter. It was like a whole crew of guys 82 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: hanging out in the studio and we popped in our 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: demo and you know, um and Will said, how are 84 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: you guys getting home? And we said we don't know. 85 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: So he said, okay, I'll give you guys a ride home, 86 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: and he drove drove us home that night, and he 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: told our families, you know, dropped us off, and he said, 88 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: you know I got them, and um, but we I 89 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: think more than anything else, more than even the music. 90 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: He was expected our hustle and you know, we were 91 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: silly kids, and you know so I think he liked us. 92 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: So what happened? Maybe you gave you a record deal? Yes, 93 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: and we signed. We signed the Jive Records through Will's 94 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: production company, and we put out a record and got dropped. 95 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: It was like all within like all within like a 96 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: year and a half is like the super this kind 97 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: of whirl and uh, oh my god, our dreams came 98 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: true to oh my god, this is the biggest disaster. 99 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: My life is over. Did you get an advance? Did 100 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: you get any money? Got in advance? I think we 101 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: we got in advance of about I think it was 102 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: like thirty five thousand dollars, which might have been thirty 103 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: five million dollars and um, you know, because we had 104 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: never gotten any money like you know before and um, 105 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: and we divided it up amongst the three of us. 106 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: And what did you do with your twelve grand I 107 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: went straight to the car dealership like every rapper and uh, 108 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: and I bought a used OUTI five thousand. That was 109 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: a stick shift and I had never driven a stick 110 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: shift before, but I wanted that car. And I think 111 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: I burned out the clutch by the time I got home. 112 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: So I burned through the money in the clutch within 113 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: like weeks, just because you told me the story, and 114 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to forget it. You do tell a 115 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: story of buying a Lexus use Lexus and getting stopped 116 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: for driving while black. How long after this was? That? 117 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: That was? That was after? That was? That was years later? 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: And um, I started promoting shows in Philadelphia, so I 119 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: would promote these concerts. Um so like Notorious b I, G. 120 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: Jay Z, Foxy Brown, a bunch of the New Woutang clan, 121 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of the New York rappers, and um and 122 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: I bought a car off of Foxy Brown's manager, a 123 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: guy named Don Poo and UM and you know, I 124 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: drove the car back to Philly and that next week, No, 125 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: with no exaggeration, within one week, I had gotten holed 126 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: over by the police six times within one week. But 127 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: you know it was one time. You know, it was 128 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: a Saturday afternoon, and um, I had bags like luggage 129 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: and the trunk and I pull up and up, um 130 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: and up at Derby and I get pulled over by 131 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: the police and they make me get out of the 132 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: car sit on the side of the curb while they 133 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: throw all of my stuff out on the street. And 134 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: so where I was at it was like a shopping district. 135 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: So it's a Saturday afternoon in front of the movie theater, 136 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: hundreds of people. You know, it was it was the 137 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: most it was probably one of the most belittling things. 138 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: And then once everything checked out, you know, the cops said, 139 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, put your ship back in the car, and 140 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: just you know, they put they pull off and I'm 141 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: left putting my underwear and everything else back into the 142 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, into into the into into my car. So 143 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's so you have an experience like that 144 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: where many experiences like and that's right, was going but 145 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: that was a experienced before I was gonna ask you 146 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: about previous growing up. How does that what where does 147 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: that leave your viewpoint in terms of race relations. Um, 148 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: you know it's complicated, right, because I think you know, 149 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: I think you got so it was more police relations 150 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: than race relations, where where where I grew up because 151 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: it was only black people who where where I grew up. 152 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: So it wasn't really any real racial issues. But we're 153 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: the cops black or white both, so blue is what 154 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: they were, right and um and and so we were 155 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: harassed and and and profiled and we didn't have It 156 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: wasn't a thing where when things happened in your neighborhood 157 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: you called the police, you know, so um and that 158 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: and that was the that was the relationship and um 159 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: so So I didn't really learn about race relations until 160 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: I really started traveling to a lot of places, you know, 161 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: through through out throughout the country, and um and then 162 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: that that's when I really started, you know, seeing Philly 163 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: is very segregated, but it was very segregated, gated by 164 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: the way. So Italians lived in a certain area, Blacks 165 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: lived in a certain area, Puerto Ricans lived in a 166 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: certain area, Jews lived in a certain area, and it 167 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: wasn't a thing where it was any real I never 168 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: felt that sort of tension because everybody stayed in their 169 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: own pockets for the most part, almost kind of like 170 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: l a Alas racially segregated too. But when you were 171 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: making the deal with dj Jazzy Jeff and Will Smith. 172 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: Are you still in high school? Yeah? I dropped out 173 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: of high school and then, um, I dropped out in 174 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: eleventh grade and my mom she put me in a 175 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: program called job Corps, which is like jail meets college 176 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: and uh and it's and it was important to posit 177 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: in Maryland. So basically she said, if you want to 178 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: do this music thing, you better come home with a 179 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: piece of paper. And you know, because I just wanted 180 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: to pursue music. And at eleventh grade, I quit school. 181 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: Just stopping there for a second. You quit school because 182 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: you were that excited about music, or you're also a 183 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: poor student or an attentive student. It was I just 184 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: was bored, Like I would I would go to school, 185 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: check in with my advisor, hang out with my friends, 186 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: and then we would go on these adventures you know, 187 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: sometimes like for me is crazy. I would end up. 188 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: I would end up at a library some days and 189 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: just studying subjects that I wanted to study. We would 190 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: have or we would have hooky parties, you know until 191 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: my mom got home from work and then we would 192 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: clear the house out and um, but we every day 193 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: was this sort of adventure. But school I just I 194 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: was curious about learning, but not what they would teach 195 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: me in school. So how long did the job Corps 196 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: program last? I stayed in AP Corps for a little. 197 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: I got my I got my g D and record time. 198 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: It was like I was trying to get out of 199 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: this place as fast as you could. How fast did 200 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: you get the GD? Probably? I think a little under 201 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: a year maybe, And it was like, because it's the worst, 202 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: this is where the courts a point juvenile delinquents, so Virginia, 203 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: New York, d C. You know, so they just put 204 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: you all in one place essentially, and um, and you 205 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: want to get out as fast as you can. But 206 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: isn't that the place that would tend you know, their 207 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: theory on jail is you got to jail you to 208 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: learn how to become a criminal. When you're in this program, 209 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 1: did you learn how to act bad? Yes? So so 210 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: job Corps it was, um, it was. It was definitely 211 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: a place where you had it was many sort of 212 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: many criminal imprise enterprises and clicks built around and it. 213 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: You know, you had gang members on campus from different gangs, 214 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: you know, through throughout uh, you know, the Northeast corridor 215 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: and I think because I was always small, you know, 216 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: and and you know, and I didn't get caught up 217 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: and being just with the guys from Philly. So I 218 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: would hang out with the New York guys, the Virginia 219 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: guys and kind of stay away from any sort of 220 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: the the the warring factions with with within within within 221 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 1: job corps. And so how long were you in job 222 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: Corps overall? For for almost a year? Okay, So when 223 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: you got your g D you were out. I was out. 224 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: And the deal, the record deal was after you. That 225 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: was after Okay, So the act fails, you've blown the money, 226 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: then what? UM? You know, I remember being at my 227 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: grandmother's house when I got the call that they were 228 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: dropping us from from the record label and UM and 229 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: I and I was in her in my grandmother's room, 230 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: and because I was on the phone, I got the 231 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: call and it broke my heart because, you know, it 232 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: was something I felt like we worked really hard for. UM. 233 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: I really didn't have a plan B of what I 234 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: was gonna do. I was embarrassed that, you know, we 235 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: had gotten this far and and and now you know, 236 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: how do we tell people this? UM? And from there, 237 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: I just I started I learned a lot about the 238 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: business from that from that experience, and UM, and I 239 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: asked James Lasseter, who was Will Smith's manager, UM, could 240 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: I start working with him? And I started working at 241 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: the recording studio and I was his assistant. Was it 242 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 1: pretty much just that fast? It was probably over, if 243 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: I had to guess, maybe over a six month time 244 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: period where I sort of transitioned into more of the business, 245 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: because we ever have a straight job working at the supermarket? 246 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: Any of that? Did I while I was a kid? No, 247 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: while in this interim between h getting dropped from the 248 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: label and going to work for the management, I had 249 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: one period where I couldn't find It was that sort 250 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: of And I don't know if I even if I 251 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,479 Speaker 1: ever told this this story before, but UM, I remember 252 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: I couldn't find a job, and I didn't have any money. 253 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: I had kind of given up on on the on 254 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: the record business. And at one point I've filed for 255 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: UH for for welfare and I got I had gotten 256 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: one check, and I remember giving the money from my 257 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: check to my aunt because my younger cousin had just 258 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: gotten killed, and you know, they were doing this funeral 259 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: or whatever. And then I'm like, it's just uh that 260 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: was It was just like a low point and I'm like, 261 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: this isn't what I want my my life to be. 262 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: And um, but as a kid, I worked at McDonald's, 263 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: I worked at Burger King, I worked at um uh 264 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: Olga's kitchen, which was like a restaurant, and so I 265 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: had all types of odd jobs here, here and there. 266 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: And so you go to work in the record eating 267 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: studio and for your the manager lasseter, what are you doing? 268 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: Um everything car getting car wash, booking sessions for DJ 269 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: Jazz Jeff, carrying records for Jazz Jeff. Um. But you know, 270 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: with James, when I was James's assistant, the best part 271 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: of it was I used to have to run his 272 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: phone calls. So I had to listen in on every 273 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: phone call that he did by rolling his calls. So 274 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: it kind of taught me the sort of vernacular and 275 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: and sort of cadence how people talk to each other 276 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: on on the phone, you know. And I think one 277 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: of the biggest things was, you know, I thought everything 278 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: was all business with people, but you know, just hearing 279 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: them talk about people's families and kids and you know, 280 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: people they would talk for ten fifteen minutes about everything 281 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: else before they kind of got into this. I think 282 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: people you're so hungry when you get into the business, 283 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: you have meetings, immediately started the sales pitch. They don't 284 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: really people want to know who are you, what's going on? 285 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: You are reasonable person. So so that that was good 286 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: for me to learn very lead because um and and 287 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: James and he and are still really really close to 288 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: this day. But he he was a guy who we 289 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: grew up eight blocks away from each other, like and 290 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: what we didn't know My mom and his mom used 291 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: to catch the bus together, and you know, he had 292 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: become Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince's manager because he was 293 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: the only guy in the neighborhood with a car, like 294 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, because because back back then you used to 295 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: have to put you know, turntables and everything and load 296 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: the cars up or whatever. He was the only guy 297 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: with a car. So um So seeing a guy who 298 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: grew up, you know, right in our neighborhood, it kind 299 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: of showed me like, okay, if James can do it 300 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: and talk to like studio executives and record company heads, 301 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: and it just made it less than a little less 302 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: in timidity and for for me, And so what was 303 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: your breakthrough from being assistent gopher to the next level. Um, James, 304 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: uh So, so like in between that time, you know, 305 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: I was promoting these shows and and Philly and okay, 306 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: just a little bit slow. You're promoting him yourself or 307 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: with James. So so James h ended up moving to 308 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: l A and he was doing he started doing Fresh 309 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: Prince of bel Air. I had come out to l 310 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: A for a little bit. I went back to Philly 311 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: and I was from promoting. I started off promoting like clubs, 312 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: and then I would get acts to performing in the 313 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: clubs and um, and I would collect money from guys 314 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: and my neighborhood essentially, so it would be guys who 315 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: have money. I said, you know, at that time, I 316 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: didn't know it was called money laundering because guys would 317 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: give me money like hey, this is great. And so 318 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: in reality you were money laundering. You were just unaware. 319 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: I just was unaware. Now, no statue and all those 320 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: guys are probably in jail. Um. But I would do 321 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: these do these shows with all of the rappers. And 322 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: this is before it was Live Nation and all of 323 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: the big conglomerate it's and it was a local guy 324 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: in Philly. Named Larry Maggott who used to promote the 325 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: concerts in Philly if their spectrum where the roof blew exactly, 326 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: and but they didn't do hip hop because hip hop shows, 327 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: you know, and then fights and shootings and couldn't get 328 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: insured and um, and I was one of the crazy 329 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: guys who would do it. And I've started meeting all 330 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: of these people through these relationships, and I met Puffy 331 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: through promoteing a notorious b I bit slower. Being a 332 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: promoter is a license to go out of business. Okay, 333 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: people usually like even Leor, he had one successful gig 334 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: and then he lost all that money and more on 335 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: the next gig. So in your a particular case, every 336 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: gig I didn't think would be in the black. No, 337 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, you had really really really great nights 338 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: and you had some really really really bad nights, and 339 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: you know it was it was. I remember it was 340 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: a rap group on Jive called foos Chnickens and um 341 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: and I used to love their music, and I think 342 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: I might have been the only person that loved the 343 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: music because literally, no exaggeration, I had five people show up, 344 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: but I still paid him a hundred percent of the 345 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: money built the relationship. It was bad shows where we 346 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: were down, but every single act got paid. So but 347 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: wasn't it the money of the so called criminals that 348 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: was paying them? Yeah, and what of the criminals? What 349 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: are the criminals say when they were losing money? They 350 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: were happy to be there. It's like you're hanging out 351 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: with Biggie, Okay. So it's like hanging you're hanging out. 352 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: So so everybody, everybody, and and was funny about hip 353 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: hop as the streets and music. We were all contemporaries, 354 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: So j and Dame and their whole crew. They were 355 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: street guys from New York coming to hang out with 356 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: us Big and Don Poo and Mark Pitts and all 357 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: of those guys. They were street guys coming out to 358 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: hang with us. Wu Tang from Staten Island. So it 359 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: was it was a thing where everybody felt it was 360 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: everybody was really respectful of of of each other in 361 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: that way because we knew what it took to get there. 362 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: And and it was almost a thing where you couldn't 363 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: go out the back door. It's just, you know, just 364 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: from a street code perspective, you can't leave out of 365 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: the back door. So you got these guys to come. 366 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: And this is before it was like bank wiring and 367 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: all of that stuff. So you would pay them that 368 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: money up front, the front up front, but when they 369 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: showed up, you better have you know, you had to 370 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: have the rest of that. You're talking about the street 371 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, cred and the similarity. But getting people from 372 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: different communities, was there also friction? Never mind the money, 373 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: you know what, most of the most of the friction 374 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: sort of came from just the nature of the beast 375 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: of doing these type of shows and these type of neighborhoods. Right, 376 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: so it's you got rival factions that are gonna are 377 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: gonna show up, and um, it could be a bad 378 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: night when somebody steps on somebody's shoe and they don't say, 379 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, excuse me or I'm sorry, and that could 380 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: end up in something or it might have been something 381 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: that happened weeks before that. You know, people just happened 382 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: to to to see each other, so you and um, 383 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: it's par for the course. Okay, So we didn't know, 384 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,479 Speaker 1: to be honest though, we didn't know any different. So 385 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, sort of and it wasn't strange. 386 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: It wasn't like it's kind of like that movie Hoop 387 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: Dreams when they celebrate the kids sixteenth birthday and they said, 388 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: we're thrilled he just made it to sixteen. And when 389 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,719 Speaker 1: when I said, it took to me eighteen and twenty 390 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: one in my mind with what were the ages in 391 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: my mind that that I made it to eight teen, 392 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: and that that I made it the one and my 393 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: closest cousin. He and I grew up together and we 394 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: were like this. Um, he got killed when he was 395 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: when he was seventeen years seventeen. What was what precipitated 396 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: his death? He was out at the Chinese restaurant, Chinese Takeout, 397 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: getting chicken wings, and somebody decided that they were going 398 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: to rob the restaurant, drobed the guys who were at 399 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: the restaurant that night, and I ended up The guy 400 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: who killed them was a guy who I grew up 401 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: with and we went to school with and everything else. 402 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: He didn't even know it was my cousin. So um 403 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: and yeah, ended up killing him. Did that guy go 404 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: to jail? Yeah, they went to jail. Okay, So in 405 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 1: your pursuits you meet Puffy and how do you maximize 406 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: that relationship? Well, Puff, um, it was. It was a 407 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: concert that I was throwing with Notorious b I g 408 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: Um and Wootang and a few other acts on Penn's 409 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: campus and um, and I got a call that Notoria, 410 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: Notorious b I g was Um, he wasn't gonna make 411 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: it down in time for the show because he was 412 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: shooting the video for Big Papa at that time. And 413 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: I get into an argument with Mark Pitts on the 414 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: phone that turns into an argument with Puffy on the 415 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: phone and um, and but yet they still came down. 416 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: The show was over. You know, we had the refund 417 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: a few people, but he didn't make it and um, 418 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: but they told Biggs manager make sure Troy gets his 419 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: money back. Um, we'll give you another show. And we 420 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: were hanging out that night. I was having an after 421 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: party and Puff was holding court and you know, v 422 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: I p section and you know, I'm talking and I said, 423 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: you know what, you know, I want to come work 424 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: for you, And he said, all right, well your first 425 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: job is get me that girl from behind the bar. 426 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: And um, and I got puffed the girl from behind 427 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: the bar. And then a couple of weeks later, I 428 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: was interning that bad boy. Then you moved to New York. No, 429 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: I commute three days a week. I would commute on 430 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: peter Pan trailways, um seven I think it was seven 431 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: dollars each way peter Pan Trailways from Philly to uh 432 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: to uh To to New York. And so you're interning, 433 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: you're obviously, you know, doing your best to do a 434 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: good job. What's your break a bad Boy? You know, 435 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: I didn't get a break at Bad Boy, um, you know, 436 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: but what I did get was an education you know 437 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: Puff and even still to this day, you get a 438 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: sort of master class and hustle and just seeing this 439 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: guy operate that company just off of like I would 440 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: see Puff at the club at night, and then I 441 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: would see Puff in the office in the morning, and 442 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: then at he had his recording studio called Daddy's House 443 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: where he you know, would be where he would make records. 444 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: So you know, it just it was this sort of 445 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: NonStop thing, but this sort of masterful dance of being 446 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: able to navigate sort of hip hop culture in the 447 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: streets with corporate America and uh so that it just 448 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: was that master class. So I didn't get a break 449 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: in terms of uh, you know, I made it. It 450 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: was you got cursed out. You got um worked to 451 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: death and you just wanted more of it, like you know, 452 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: I just I couldn't get enough of it? And what 453 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: was your next journey after that? Um? Afterwards, I started, UM. 454 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: I went back to work for James Lasseter in in 455 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: l A. And UM, he and Will started a movie 456 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: production company called Overbrook Entertainment and UM, so I was 457 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: James's assistant and I did that and UM and James 458 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: ended up firing me. I think after like a year 459 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: and a half, he ended up firing me and UM 460 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: sending me back to Philly. And then that's when that 461 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: was my big break. When he fired you because you've 462 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: done a good job. I didn't he do or he said, 463 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm colding you back, keeping you here. Um, I wish 464 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: I wish he was holding me back, keeping me here. 465 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: I was arrogant as you can you could get. UM. 466 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: I thought I knew everything and James like it was 467 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: no humility. And I remember, you know, I didn't have 468 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: a I didn't have a car when I living in 469 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,479 Speaker 1: l A. And if you live in l A, you 470 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: know how hard it is not to have a car. 471 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: And UM, and at one point I was dating this 472 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: girl and Um and I would take the car service 473 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: to go visit this girl. But and at the end 474 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: of the week, I would just pay the general manager 475 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: of the company when I got my check, here's the 476 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: car service, you know, here's the money for the car service. 477 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: And for some reason she told James Troy's been using 478 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: the car service. And he came in the office and 479 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: aired me out and you know, in front of everybody, 480 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: and told me, you know, he kicked me out of California. 481 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: And he said, you know, he fired me on the spot, 482 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: kicked me out of California. Me and him get into 483 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: this huge shouting match in his office, and Will and 484 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: Jada actually walked in like right after and Um and 485 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: Will said, you know what, go back to Philly. You know, 486 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: we'll give you a severance, but go back to Philly 487 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: and you know, get get yourself together. And I went 488 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: back to Philly with my tail between my legs. And 489 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: what would would you start up in Philly? UM? I 490 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: started up UM. It was. It was a company called 491 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: Black Friday that guys from my neighborhood that I knew. 492 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: They basically UM started this management company. It was like 493 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: a management production company. And they asked if I would 494 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: come and basically run the company for him. Can I could? 495 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: I could? I build it and started up for him, 496 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: and Eve was even Beanie Seagull where the client there. 497 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: And it was a hot mess, and I ended up, 498 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: you know, after a while, I'm like, I can't do 499 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: this anymore. It was a lot of disorganization. One one client, 500 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: UM came into the office. One day. I got a 501 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: call that the client got into an argument with one 502 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: of the guys who owned the company and start shooting 503 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: at him in the office. And that was it for 504 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: me and I and I ended up that and I 505 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: left at that point, and Eve was leaving and she 506 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,239 Speaker 1: had enough, and she asked if I would help her 507 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: find the manager. I took her to meet with Chris 508 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: Lighty a few other managers, and then she asked if 509 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: I would do it. Okay, so you do it and 510 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: tell me how you ultimately get to there to making 511 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: your deal with Sanctuary. So I started managing Eve UM. 512 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: I ended up signing a few other clients. Me m 513 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: up my partner at that time, Jay Irving. We built 514 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: company called Irving Wonder in Philadelphia, which was like you know, 515 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: boutique management company and UM and we got a call 516 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: from Matthew Knowles one day and Matthew asked if we 517 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: would I want to sell our company to Sanctuary. He 518 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: had just sold this company to Sanctuary. They were looking 519 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:23,959 Speaker 1: to build their urban music division and U and he 520 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: basically told me how much money? And I said, when 521 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 1: where do I sign? Because I never, like, I had 522 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: never seen that type of money in my life. So, 523 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: you know, without asking, I'm like, let's go, let's get 524 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: this done. And how did it end with Sanctuary? Terrible? 525 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: But you kept on money, right, Yeah? But you know 526 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: the thing is what I what I learned about Sanctuary, 527 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: Like with the Sanctuary situation, I was so focused on 528 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: the exit and the money that I was that it 529 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: blinded me from all of the red flags that I 530 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: should have noticed as they were doing their diligence on us. 531 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: We should have been on our diligence on them, on 532 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: them and um and it just wasn't that. We went 533 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: from a really cool culture at our company, like actually 534 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: Jay Irvan and and his wife, Um, that's who I'm 535 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: up here in Santa Barbara with this weekend. You know, 536 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: it was me and my best friend we built this company. 537 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: We hung out every day. We hung out with our employees, 538 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: we hung out with our artists, and then we sold 539 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: this company the Sanctuary and the culture it just with. 540 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: The culture was terrible and um, and the leadership wasn't great. 541 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: Um and I'm just being honesty. They were terrible people. 542 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: The you know, the guy running the company was a 543 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: terrible person, and he ended up we you know, we 544 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: were trying to buy our company back. And because you know, I, 545 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: like I said, I grew up like I love the 546 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: music business. I love what I do. Um, I grew 547 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: up loving this business. I grew up loving the music. 548 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: And then it felt like I didn't want to go 549 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: to work in the morning. I didn't want to go 550 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: into the office, and I wanted to buy the company back. 551 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: And so I started this negotiation to buy the company back, 552 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,239 Speaker 1: and we couldn't reach a deal. And then somebody told me, 553 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: who works in finance, They said, hold out for a 554 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: little bit longer, because if you hold out, I don't 555 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: even think they're gonna be able to make salary. They're 556 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: not even gonna make your your your uh your paycheck. 557 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: So I'm walking into a restaurant and I never forget 558 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: it's on my birthday. I'm walking into a restaurant and 559 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: my attorney at that time, David Landy, calls me up 560 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, are you by yourself? I 561 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: said no, but I can walk out. I said, what's up? 562 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: He said, Sanctuary. I just got a facts from Sanctuary 563 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: and they're suing you and Jay for calls. I said, 564 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: what's the cause? He said, they don't have a cause. 565 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: And what we found out was the cause was they 566 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: couldn't make our page checks and they didn't want to 567 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: pay us out. And and you know, our business is 568 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: very rare when anybody in our business gets suit for calls. 569 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: And to have that on the front cover of a variety, 570 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, magazine or whatever, and to know that like 571 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: it just was they just with terrible people, and we 572 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: ended up being able to you know, they ended up 573 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: having to pay us out, and you know, I you know, 574 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: I ended up starting a new company. But it was 575 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: a valuable lesson and culture and people and that the 576 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 1: new company is atom Factory, right, Adom Factory until the audience, 577 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: Why you named it atom factory? Um? The idea where 578 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,959 Speaker 1: Adam Factory was you know thinking about it was something 579 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to do, something small but yet powerful. And 580 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, and and and the name Adam just kind 581 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: of some summarized it for me, like you know, um, 582 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, because I never wanted, you know, talent roster 583 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: with a hundred people on the roster. But how can 584 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: I build a small company but that still has some 585 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: gravitizing importance? So how do you sign leading gaga? UM? 586 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: Got guy I met got got through a guy named 587 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: Vincent Herbert. And Vincent Um I had known since I 588 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: was coming up in the business. And he caught me 589 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: up one day and he said, I got this girl 590 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: who you have to meet. Um, I'm flying her from 591 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: New York tomorrow and I'm gonna bring aodbye. And you know, 592 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: he showed up and she walked in with you know, 593 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: these big sunglasses on and you know, no pants and 594 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: fishnet stockings and played hit after hit. Um it was 595 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: what what I loved. What I loved was it looked 596 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: like she landed from another planet, but she owned it. 597 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: And I told Vince, I said, you gotta bring her back, Like, 598 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: just promise me you'll you'll bring her back. And a 599 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: few months later he he actually he lived up to 600 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: that promise and he bought her back. Now, when you 601 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: signed or did anybody else want her? No, she had 602 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: she had just gotten dropped from deaf Jam. Um, probably 603 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: a few months prior toized meeting, she had gotten dropped 604 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: from deaf Jam. And UM, you know she kind of 605 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: I went to West Virginia for a while and like 606 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: spent some time with a grandmother and um. And so 607 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: she was like, you know, it was one of those 608 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: things with where you had nothing to lose, like you 609 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 1: know I had. I was going through a terrible time financially. 610 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: You know, this was like two thousand and seven when 611 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: we met, going like so right, you know, I had 612 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: invested everything into this new company, even fired me right 613 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: before that. And um, and you know my wife and I, 614 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: you know, we were losing our house. You know, her 615 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: and my mother in law literally pawned their wedding rings 616 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: to save our house. They Um, you know, our kids 617 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: were getting kicked, you know, like we couldn't pay school 618 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: tuition or anything like that. So financially I was completely wiped. 619 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: Um and when Gaga came, that was like the only 620 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: thing I had to work on essentially, And she had 621 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: just gotten dropped. And I think it was one of 622 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: those things where is you have nothing to lose and 623 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: like you gotta make it work. And we both really 624 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: really had to make it work. And what did you 625 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: tell her to get her to sign with you? You know, 626 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: I took her to a fancy restaurant called Spaghetti Warehouse. 627 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: We went to Spaghetti Warehouse, I swear to you, and 628 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: um and uh, and we just talked. I think we 629 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: spent like a couple of hours together. And then I 630 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: remember I think it was I think it was. Wasn't 631 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: it Layla's birthday? Baby? Yeah, and because I remember it 632 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: was my daughter's birthday and um, and it's and I 633 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: had to stop for cupcakes on the way home. So 634 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: it's literally me and Gaga standing on um little Santa 635 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: Monica at like Sprinkles cupcakes. Remember it used to be 636 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: like a line outside the door, and like you know, 637 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: she's you know, looking like Gaga on like in front 638 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: at Sprinkles and we're but we hit it off right away, 639 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: like we like it was we got each other right away. 640 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: And um, I believed in in her vision and she 641 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: trusted me with everything and we we you know, and 642 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: and but a few things like this is what's interesting, 643 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: Like like a lot of times, you know, you you 644 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: you hear, you know, the sort of romantic stories about 645 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: you know, how everything happened or whatever. But you know, 646 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: Vincent Herbert had just walked away from his record label 647 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: UM that he had with a guy, Barry Hankerson. So 648 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: Vincent kind of left his record label behind. So this 649 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: was his new thing and Goga was the only thing 650 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: he had. Jimmy was in the middle of his divorce 651 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: at that time, UM, and you know, Interscope was probably 652 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: this was probably one of Interscope's tough as years, you know, 653 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: during during that time period or whatever, and so Jimmy 654 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: was kind of doing his thing and left us alone 655 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: on the guy got projects, so basically kind of gave 656 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: us carte blanche. So we were kind of running doing 657 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: our own thing. So she was making these records and 658 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: he was focused on Pussycat Dolls. So every record that 659 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: she would make, Jimmy was taking the records, like you know, 660 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: and she would give records to Pussycat Dolls or Rodney Jerkins. 661 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: I remember one record that you know, uh, she had 662 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: written with Rodney Jerkins and she wanted it for herself 663 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: and Rodney's like, no, she's a new artist, I'm not 664 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,439 Speaker 1: giving her this record. I need to get this record 665 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: to Britney Spears. Brittany is you know, she's a superstar. 666 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: We're giving this record the Britney Spears and Goga was pissed. 667 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: Um the record was called Telephone, so of course, you know, 668 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: Gaga becomes gay gay and Brittney recorded the record as 669 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: a demo and she's like, nope, get that record back. 670 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: And she put Beyonce on that record, and that record became, 671 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: you know, a number one hit. But she couldn't keep 672 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: a record because everybody would take it because she wasn't 673 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: a big star. But I started keeping making sure we 674 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 1: could keep those records. So just Dance we kept, which 675 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: became a number one record. Um, Love Game we kept, 676 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: became a number one run record. Poker Face we kept 677 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: that one became a number one record, and um so 678 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: it just was really fighting and so did a block 679 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: in and tackling. We'll take a quick break and come 680 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: back with more of my conversation with Director of Creative 681 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: Services and Spotify, Troy Carter, recorded live at the Music 682 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: Media Summit in Santa Barbara, California. This week. I'm speaking 683 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: with Troy Carter. Recently, I interviewed Brian Fogel, who created 684 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: Oscar winning documentary Chous. Be the first to hear next 685 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: week's episode by subscribing to the podcast I'm tuned in 686 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast or your podcast Apple Troice. While you're there, 687 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: be sure to rate and review the podcast. Okay, let's 688 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: get back to my conversation with Troy Carter. Now. The 689 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,439 Speaker 1: story is she was making dance music at a time 690 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: dance music was not on the chart or on the radio, 691 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: and the interscope went to the wall for you. Is 692 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: that true? Yeah, it was. We were getting a lot 693 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: of push back from Top forty radio because they thought 694 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: that it was too electronic because it was sort of 695 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: four on the floor and read one who was the 696 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: music producer was just um, you know, he came out 697 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: of Sweden, so it was you know, sort of Swedish 698 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: sound at that time. And we didn't take no for 699 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: an answer, but neither did Brenda Romano, who was working 700 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: Top forty radio at that time, and so she just 701 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: kept knocking on those doors. And but the Internet and 702 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: being able to kind of build that story and come 703 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: back to radio was really important. So we were building 704 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: audiences um on YouTube and you know, and building this 705 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: sort of international following on YouTube. We were doing the 706 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: same thing on Twitter, We were doing the same thing, 707 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 1: um on a couple other platforms. And then NAT started 708 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: translating into call out at radio, so they would put 709 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: the record on and kids already knew the record. You know, 710 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 1: the radio was late at that time because kids were 711 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: already familiar with the sort of what's happening with Spotify now. 712 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: But saving that for a little bit later. Okay, Gaga 713 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: blows up. It must be an amazing learning experience for you. Yeah, 714 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's It's what I realized was, you know, 715 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: it's levels you know, and the business and its levels 716 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,879 Speaker 1: in life. You know, um, because with Eve, Eve had 717 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: a wildly successful career for hip hop artists, you know, 718 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: and and even you know, we did her TV show 719 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: and it lasted for you know, a few years, but 720 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: you know that was primarily you know, it was African 721 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: American audiences that was consuming you know, the the TV show. 722 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: So we weren't we didn't have that level of pop 723 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: exposure at at at that time. So and I had 724 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 1: glimpses of it through Sanctuary because Destiny's Child was you know, 725 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: managed by Sanctuary and a few other pop acts. But 726 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't personally exposed to it. So with Gaga, only 727 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: had experience as a hip hop manager, so I kind 728 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: of managed her like a hip hop act. So we 729 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: were doing three shows a night. Um, you know, the 730 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: sound was terrible half the time. You know, you know rappers, 731 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,320 Speaker 1: you know they're holding the micro like this or whatever, 732 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: and um, so we didn't know sound, and um, you know, 733 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: Jimmy Iveen. She was opening for New Kids on the Block. 734 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: And I remember Jimmy pulling me to the side after 735 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: the first show at Staples Center and he said, the 736 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: show was great, sound was terrible. This is what you 737 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: need to do to fix the sound. You know, this 738 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: is the guy you need to call to fix the sound. 739 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: And he taught me, you know, sort of sonically with 740 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: pop acts as supposed to sound like. And then I 741 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: met Arthur Fogel and Michael Rapino and they taught me 742 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: what pop acts as supposed to tour like. You know, 743 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: So it was it was I was I felt like 744 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: I was in school learning a lot of this stuff. 745 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: So where I knew this sort of basic um fundamentals 746 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,919 Speaker 1: of protect your client with everything you have, and so 747 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,359 Speaker 1: my instincts were worked, you know, in terms of of 748 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: protecting a client, but in terms of global touring and 749 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,320 Speaker 1: making and building a global superstar. I've gone to countries 750 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: I had never gone to, and you know, it just 751 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: was a whole new experience. And at any time in 752 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 1: the height of her career did another manager try to 753 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: steal your act all the time? You know, I remember 754 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: I remember getting a call from um just this is 755 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: as she was really this is as the first single 756 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: was taken off, and her lawyer, Um, her first lawyer, 757 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 1: called up and and said, um, uh, I'm not even 758 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: gonna mention him. Uh. Big, big, big manager calls calls 759 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: up and he wants to take a meeting uh with 760 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: with with Uh. This is why I love her. By 761 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 1: the way, big manager called up the lawyer tried to 762 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: set the meeting up and and like around me and 763 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: she called me. She called me and she said fire 764 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: him the lawyer. Yeah, that's great. But eventually it does 765 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: end with Stephanie. Now we've talked about that. But for 766 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: people who don't know the story in retrospect, I know 767 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: there was an issue she had to do boyfriend, etcetera. 768 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: Did you see it coming? No, you know, I don't 769 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: think you ever see that ce ce ce that type 770 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 1: of thing coming and um and you know, and and 771 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: of course you know I can't get into any of 772 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: the specifics or anything like that, you know, Um, but 773 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: and I and I don't want to sit here and 774 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: bullsit you and and and you know, say any sort 775 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: of fake story. But you know the reality is, you know, 776 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: she and I had an incredible relationship, like and even 777 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: to this day, I still I still love her despite 778 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: anything that's happened with her. Uh No, we don't we 779 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,920 Speaker 1: know contact with her right now. And um, but you know, 780 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: I think it's hard to go through that sort of 781 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: period of time and and where you're pretty much living 782 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,720 Speaker 1: on a bus together. You know, you're traveling the world together, 783 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, um, just down to like you know, birth 784 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: of kids and you know everything. So where and and 785 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: it's not like I had a big roster, you know, 786 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 1: for the first when I was managing Goga, I think 787 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 1: for the at least for the first couple of years, 788 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: she was really the only client that I was that 789 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: I was focused on. So she and I were really tight, 790 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: So I wouldn't so when when it when it comes, 791 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 1: I don't think you ever prepared for word, you know, 792 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,840 Speaker 1: so and and it's emotional. You go through the sort 793 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: of the emotions of hurt and anger, and and and 794 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,680 Speaker 1: and everything else or whatever. But the reality is, you know, 795 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: I wouldn't I wouldn't give it back for the world 796 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: because I think it was an incredible experience. She helped 797 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 1: my career just as much as I helped her career. 798 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,240 Speaker 1: We both came up in and and and the business 799 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: together and m and life happens, man like you know, 800 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: life life happening. Now since you've managed her, stop manager, 801 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,919 Speaker 1: she has not had a hit. She's had very successful 802 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: road business. First with Tony Bennet, she's brought If you 803 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 1: were to manage her again, what do you think she 804 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: should do to sustain and build her career. The The 805 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 1: good thing is, you know we're talking about and I'm 806 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: not just saying this, she's probably one of the most 807 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 1: and when I say one of the most, I'm not 808 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 1: even saying broadly. I'm talking, you know, top five most 809 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:10,720 Speaker 1: talented artists and in the business. And it's very hard, 810 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, probably you know, when you look at her 811 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: live show, it's probably only a couple of artists you 812 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: know that that is up on that level in terms 813 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: of live live concert performances, playing like piano is you know, 814 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: it's vocalists like you know, performance artists, top top top, top, 815 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: top level find it's just getting the records. That's all 816 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: it boils down to. It's like you know, if, if, 817 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: who who are you collaborating with and and the reality 818 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: is finding making making great records with superstars is hard 819 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: and it's a villain because you have to have incredibly 820 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:12,120 Speaker 1: strong producers in the room who can push back. You 821 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,959 Speaker 1: have to have an incredibly strong person at the top 822 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,600 Speaker 1: of that record label because Jimmy, basically Jimmy was tough, 823 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 1: Like you know, you bring records in. Jimmy's a record producer, 824 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,720 Speaker 1: so Jimmy's gonna tell you how that record sounds or whatever. 825 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,919 Speaker 1: Vincent was a record producer and a songwriter, so Vince 826 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,320 Speaker 1: is gonna tell you how to how that record sounds 827 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,919 Speaker 1: or whatever. And so it's a filter that it goes through. 828 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 1: So it's not just the people in the room that 829 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: are that are collaborating and you put the record out, 830 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: you gotta beat you gotta beat that record up, and 831 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,719 Speaker 1: you gotta be tough on tough on that record. But 832 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,759 Speaker 1: I think she I'm not worried about her. To be 833 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: honest with you, it's like, you know, artists like she 834 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: She's just one of those artists. She's gonna be around 835 00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:01,280 Speaker 1: for fifty years. Certainly. See was like that. So while 836 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 1: she's at the peak of her success, you meet a 837 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 1: guy who guides you into the investment tech world. Can 838 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 1: you tell the simple multitude about that? Yeah, it was um. 839 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: You know, we were doing we were doing a lot 840 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 1: of experimenting, um with social media and I and I've 841 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 1: always been curious around other businesses, you know, so that's 842 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,280 Speaker 1: been a thing where I just want to learn everything 843 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,239 Speaker 1: I can about what you do. Like so if I'm curious, 844 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: I'm going down the rabbit hole. And um, and we started. 845 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,320 Speaker 1: I remember I got invited to do a day trip 846 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: to Silicon Valley and I never gone to the valley before, 847 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,480 Speaker 1: and never gone to Palo Altoo before. And um, and 848 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: I flew in in the morning and my first meeting 849 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,959 Speaker 1: was with I think it was David simmon off from Yahoo, 850 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 1: a like at a coffee shop at like eight o'clock 851 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 1: in the morning, and you know, and just he's telling 852 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 1: me about the valley and you know, and just his 853 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: history and everything and very very interesting. And then my 854 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 1: second meeting was at Palentteer and UM and if you 855 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:17,720 Speaker 1: if if Palanteer is probably the most sophisticated technology company 856 00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and it was founded by a guy 857 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 1: named Joe Lonsdale who was Peter Tiels like you know protege, 858 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, as Peter was coming out of PayPal, and 859 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, I go into their offices and it's like 860 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 1: the TV show twenty four And what Palentteer basically does 861 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 1: is they track um, terroristic algorithms on the internet. So 862 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: and so when after nine eleven, when the FBI was 863 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,520 Speaker 1: building air thing and c i A was building an 864 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,479 Speaker 1: air thing, the d A was building air thing, none 865 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: of the technology talked to each other and you know, 866 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: and really worked in a way, and Palatiner figured it out. 867 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,879 Speaker 1: So I'm seeing this with my own I'm like, am 868 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: I even you know, it's like, you know, some serious stuff. 869 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: And then we went to Facebook and all of these 870 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,440 Speaker 1: companies and then and that night they threw me a 871 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:19,520 Speaker 1: barbecue at Joe Linsdale's house and UM, and I'm talking 872 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,359 Speaker 1: to all of these guys and you know, people could 873 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,800 Speaker 1: barely look you in the face and you know, there's 874 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 1: like as Berger's Convention. I told my wife, I'm like, 875 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm doing this wrong in l A right now, and 876 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: like it's like everybody's driving I'm driving a Rolls Royce 877 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: and these billionaires are driving prius Is and uh and 878 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,479 Speaker 1: this is revenge in the nerds and the nerds one 879 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 1: big and um. And then they started inviting me into 880 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,200 Speaker 1: into deals and said, you know, you want to invest here, 881 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:59,920 Speaker 1: And I started investing here and then investing there. Look 882 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 1: it into my conversation with director of Creative Services at Spotify, 883 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,840 Speaker 1: Troy Carter, recorded live at the Music Media Summit in 884 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 1: Santa Barbara, California. I hope you're enjoying listening to this 885 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: episode of the Bob Left Sets podcast. If you want 886 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,479 Speaker 1: to listen to sound bites from the interviews and see 887 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: some of my guests, check it out. It at tuned 888 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,440 Speaker 1: in on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Now we're of my 889 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: conversation with the director of Creative Services at Spotify, Troy Carter, 890 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,719 Speaker 1: on The Bob Left Sets Podcast. You were pretty much 891 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,000 Speaker 1: the first person, certainly in the music business who was 892 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: investing you know what, because I went in and I 893 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,800 Speaker 1: would probably go to the valley at least twice a week. 894 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 1: So I would be in l A three days a week, 895 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,920 Speaker 1: and I'd be in San Francisco and Palo Alto two 896 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,520 Speaker 1: days a week, and I would start parking myself and 897 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,719 Speaker 1: people's offices and setting up shop in their offices during 898 00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: the day. And um, and then when I remembered it 899 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,880 Speaker 1: was um. One of the guys I met was it 900 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:08,160 Speaker 1: was a guy named Shervin Pishevar and Shervin Um. He 901 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 1: had just sold his business and he started um investing 902 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,120 Speaker 1: at a firm called Menlo. And he caught me up 903 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: and he said, I want to do this thing like 904 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,759 Speaker 1: this sort of uh, we're gonna be like this, this 905 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,320 Speaker 1: sort of Jedi investment group, and I just want you 906 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 1: to be one of the Jedies. And um, and he 907 00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: caught me up about I think Warby Parker was one 908 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,560 Speaker 1: of the Was it the first deal that Shervin Um 909 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,160 Speaker 1: asked me about? And then um the second deal was 910 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,759 Speaker 1: was uber. But then he said, well, you know I 911 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: want to do. I want to start putting l A 912 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,319 Speaker 1: people into into the deals. Can you help introduce me 913 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 1: to some people in in l A? And UM, so 914 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,120 Speaker 1: I started introducing them to to some people in l A. 915 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,280 Speaker 1: And we put some l A people into the Uber 916 00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,960 Speaker 1: deal and then kind of started building this thing that 917 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,440 Speaker 1: sort of bridge between San Francisco and and in l A. 918 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 1: Did you get compensated were establishing those relationships? Uh, just 919 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,759 Speaker 1: as an investor. So so just for my my my 920 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:13,279 Speaker 1: compensation was Shervan would put me into people would put 921 00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,600 Speaker 1: me into more deals, and then the way. And this 922 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,759 Speaker 1: is the other thing I loved about the valley that 923 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,560 Speaker 1: was so different from the music business. The music business 924 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,200 Speaker 1: is zero sum. It's like some in order for you 925 00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: to win, somebody has to lose. And then when and 926 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:34,680 Speaker 1: then the structure of a record label, um, whenever there's 927 00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 1: sort of a windfall, only the people at the very 928 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,840 Speaker 1: very top of the pyramid get get wealthy and nobody 929 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,480 Speaker 1: else gets gets wealthy essentially, and um and in technology 930 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,799 Speaker 1: and an investment, the way it works is the opposite, 931 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,120 Speaker 1: because you you you want the healthiest syndicate around the 932 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: deal so that the entrepreneur and the company has the 933 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:04,480 Speaker 1: best chance of success. So if I know that this 934 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,239 Speaker 1: person here and this person here and this person here 935 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,000 Speaker 1: could be very helpful, I want them, then I want 936 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,000 Speaker 1: them in the deal because I'm gonna do better. And 937 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,480 Speaker 1: so that's how that's how this sort of is a 938 00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,319 Speaker 1: network effect. So like you know, Rocking, I would put 939 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 1: rock Nation into deals, then they would put me into deals. Um, 940 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, Scooter and I start putting each other into deals. Gayo, 941 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 1: Siri and I started putting each other into deals. Um, 942 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,400 Speaker 1: you know. I remember is funny enough one of our companies, 943 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,440 Speaker 1: one of the first companies I invested in UM. It 944 00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:38,759 Speaker 1: was a company called zim Ride that came to my 945 00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,359 Speaker 1: office and we invested and they would calm work out 946 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:47,640 Speaker 1: of our offices in l A and then UM after 947 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,400 Speaker 1: Uber launch, the founder caught me up and he's and 948 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,400 Speaker 1: he said, I want to see can you connect me 949 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,680 Speaker 1: with Live Nation because they have these festivals and we 950 00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,839 Speaker 1: have this our car pooling business. I want to see 951 00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,759 Speaker 1: if we can car pool people back and forth. So 952 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,560 Speaker 1: I called up microL Rapino. UM, Michael was great. He 953 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: did the deal, and Michael put you know, put some 954 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,319 Speaker 1: money into the company. And fast forward, that company went 955 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,120 Speaker 1: from zim Ride to become in Lift. So you know, 956 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,040 Speaker 1: and this is eight years ago. So in terms of 957 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:21,280 Speaker 1: that that sort of value at that particular time, seven 958 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,839 Speaker 1: or eight years ago and when it becomes now that's 959 00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,719 Speaker 1: how you That's so when you say the compensation, is 960 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 1: that sort of flow that that that that happens. But 961 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,440 Speaker 1: I'm not asking anybody for money or anything in return. 962 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 1: In your office, you have a whole wall of the 963 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,200 Speaker 1: companies you've invested in at this point in time. How 964 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,600 Speaker 1: many companies do you think you've invested in? Um is 965 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,400 Speaker 1: probably about a hundred and twenty. And of a hundred 966 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:50,640 Speaker 1: and twenty, how many went completely bust? Uh, completely bust? 967 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 1: Probably thirty or forty? Probably third about thirty I would say, 968 00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:04,959 Speaker 1: are completely bust? How many winners? Probably forty? I would 969 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 1: put him in in and a third, a third and 970 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,960 Speaker 1: a third. You got you got winner, you got winners, 971 00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: neutral and and dogs. Okay, so you're doing this. You're 972 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:20,680 Speaker 1: done with Gaga and then he's like record label. I 973 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,600 Speaker 1: might just have a record label, right, and then you 974 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,560 Speaker 1: have Making Trainer. Okay. The interesting thing from the outside observer, 975 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,960 Speaker 1: when you're involved with Making Trainer, she's everywhere and successful, 976 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,080 Speaker 1: and since you've been gone, she has not achieved that 977 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,480 Speaker 1: level of success, showing that your ability. But at what 978 00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,360 Speaker 1: point do you you were an investor in Spotify, At 979 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,640 Speaker 1: what point do you wake up and say I'm gonna 980 00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,640 Speaker 1: cross the street from being a manager to working for Spotify. 981 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,480 Speaker 1: So I invested in Spotify, and I think it was 982 00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,200 Speaker 1: like two thousand and eleven, two thousand eleven, and UM 983 00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:01,200 Speaker 1: and Daniel and I we we ended up. We we 984 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,919 Speaker 1: didn't initially meet when I invested, and then I think 985 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,760 Speaker 1: it had to be about six or seven months later. 986 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,560 Speaker 1: UM as a group called called Charity Water out of 987 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,800 Speaker 1: New York, a guy named Scott Harrison. He put together 988 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,960 Speaker 1: a group of probably fifteen or twenty founders to go 989 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:22,600 Speaker 1: to spend a week and a half in Ethiopia and 990 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:28,080 Speaker 1: UM and basically you build UM wells and different villages 991 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:32,440 Speaker 1: through throughout Ethiopia. And Daniel was on that trip. And 992 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:40,760 Speaker 1: when you when you're in uh and and suv for 993 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,920 Speaker 1: four hours with somebody going through villages and you know 994 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:49,360 Speaker 1: you're you're seeing you know some you know, it's it's 995 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,200 Speaker 1: it's incredible. It is very emotional, you know, kind of 996 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,440 Speaker 1: visiting these different places like just in but like if 997 00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,680 Speaker 1: not even in a sad way, it's like the people 998 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,600 Speaker 1: they are fantastic. But he and I didn't meet. Sitting 999 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,240 Speaker 1: across the desk from each other. And I think that 1000 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,760 Speaker 1: connected us in a way where we got to know 1001 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:17,040 Speaker 1: each other personally before we did any sort of business together. 1002 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 1: And so when Spotify was, you know, had come to America, 1003 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,080 Speaker 1: I would, you know, he and I would talk strategy, 1004 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,880 Speaker 1: whether it was people who were holding back albums from 1005 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, from the from the service, you know, some 1006 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:35,960 Speaker 1: communication strategy, you know, some introductions to managers and things 1007 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,480 Speaker 1: like that. But every time he would come to l A, 1008 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,440 Speaker 1: he and I would spend a bunch of time together. 1009 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,040 Speaker 1: And he had just become one of my favorite, my 1010 00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,160 Speaker 1: favorite people. And then you know, a couple of years ago, 1011 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,520 Speaker 1: you know, I was, I was so burned out from 1012 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,360 Speaker 1: being a manager. And I've done it. I've done it 1013 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,760 Speaker 1: for seventeen years and um and like you said, you know, 1014 00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,120 Speaker 1: Megan Trainer, Charlie Pooth and a few other clients you 1015 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,240 Speaker 1: know where like my my the last clients on the roster. 1016 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,320 Speaker 1: And I saw, you know, I get I get signs 1017 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,240 Speaker 1: in my life. It's almost like gott to pull the 1018 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,120 Speaker 1: rug up from under me sometimes, like you know, but 1019 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, if if I don't want to make the 1020 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:19,280 Speaker 1: decision myself, and I saw I started to see some 1021 01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 1: of the cracks and Adam Factory's business. UM I started 1022 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,600 Speaker 1: to look at the future of like the management business 1023 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,760 Speaker 1: for myself. And I I wasn't getting up in the 1024 01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 1: morning excited. Um and you know, to to the amount 1025 01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:42,680 Speaker 1: of I don't I don't phone it in, Like I 1026 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:44,720 Speaker 1: just don't have the thing where I can phone it in. 1027 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:49,080 Speaker 1: And if I'm working for a client, I'm putting my 1028 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,280 Speaker 1: soul into it. And when you put your soul into something, 1029 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,400 Speaker 1: and you know, you get punched in the gut and 1030 01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,680 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you're not appreciated, and you know, 1031 01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,440 Speaker 1: it's like you know sometimes you know some clients, you 1032 01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,920 Speaker 1: know you you you got to drag them across the 1033 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,400 Speaker 1: finish line and you gotta explain to him why should 1034 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,720 Speaker 1: you shouldn't cancel a show, or you should you should 1035 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,200 Speaker 1: show up one time, or you should do that. I 1036 01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,440 Speaker 1: just was ready to do something different. And Daniel and 1037 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,880 Speaker 1: I started having these conversations. And I remember I was 1038 01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,360 Speaker 1: sitting at the Soho house. He and I were working 1039 01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,880 Speaker 1: on a project together. Um I was. I was testing 1040 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,160 Speaker 1: something out for him on on the Spotify platform, and 1041 01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,920 Speaker 1: we were at the Soho house and we started talking 1042 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,680 Speaker 1: about what this sort of creator services thing would look 1043 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,800 Speaker 1: would look like, you know, sort of from the outside end. 1044 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,040 Speaker 1: And um, and we started having one of those what 1045 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:53,400 Speaker 1: ifs conversations and I remember, you know, I talked to 1046 01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,880 Speaker 1: my wife about it. I got cold feet. Like I 1047 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,120 Speaker 1: had agreed to it, then I got cold feet and 1048 01:01:58,160 --> 01:01:59,640 Speaker 1: I told him, you know, I don't think I'm gonna 1049 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,920 Speaker 1: do it. And you know, we went back and forth 1050 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:07,360 Speaker 1: and no exaggeration. Within a six week period, I had 1051 01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:13,240 Speaker 1: wound you know, I wound down Atom Factory and was 1052 01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,400 Speaker 1: in Spotify about six six I've lived with you through 1053 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,760 Speaker 1: a lot of challenges is Spotify, but now streaming is one. 1054 01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,680 Speaker 1: Revenues are up. What you are the major challenges you're 1055 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:28,320 Speaker 1: facing now? Um. You know, I think so you know 1056 01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,360 Speaker 1: this the streaming business. I think we're still in its 1057 01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 1: infancy right now. So you know, I think you have 1058 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,520 Speaker 1: some markets that are mature, like Sweden's very like a 1059 01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:43,040 Speaker 1: very mature market. Um. America to me is still a 1060 01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:47,560 Speaker 1: young streaming market. UM. You look at places like India 1061 01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:50,640 Speaker 1: that's still you know, young, and what's gonna happen in 1062 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 1: and so to Africa. UM, and you know some of 1063 01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,240 Speaker 1: the other markets as well. I think it's I think 1064 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,080 Speaker 1: in terms, I think what we this is more of 1065 01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:10,080 Speaker 1: an industry thing. It's sort of defining as companies what 1066 01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,920 Speaker 1: our relationship is with the rest of the with with 1067 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,600 Speaker 1: the rest of the industry, because I, you know, I 1068 01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:22,200 Speaker 1: definitely foresee you know what, what what all of our 1069 01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:26,480 Speaker 1: roles are right now are gonna look much much different 1070 01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,320 Speaker 1: over the next ten years, meaning what it is to 1071 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,920 Speaker 1: be a record label, what it is to be a 1072 01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,600 Speaker 1: talent manager, what it means to be a promoter, you know, 1073 01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,440 Speaker 1: and what it means to be an artist by the way, 1074 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,920 Speaker 1: so all of this is gonna look different. So I 1075 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:48,720 Speaker 1: think just the thing is being able to um get 1076 01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:50,920 Speaker 1: who gets to the future, Who gets to the future 1077 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:56,640 Speaker 1: the fastest? Okay, um I got a number of questions. 1078 01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,040 Speaker 1: Let me think of the one. Let's go to the 1079 01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,880 Speaker 1: one that everybody is concerned about. Playlists. What are we 1080 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,280 Speaker 1: here on the street. We hear the individual playlist or 1081 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,000 Speaker 1: is being squeezed out by the major labels. We hear that, 1082 01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:11,480 Speaker 1: what do you mean by that when you say that 1083 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,560 Speaker 1: they were saying that, you know that it's the major 1084 01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,680 Speaker 1: label playlists who are major labels playlists and the Spotify 1085 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:22,640 Speaker 1: playlists are getting most of the streams, and that the 1086 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:27,320 Speaker 1: the major labels have power on Spotify akin to their 1087 01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:31,600 Speaker 1: power at radio with their promotion teams. I don't, I don't. 1088 01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't agree at all, because you know, I think 1089 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that this is my point. That is 1090 01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,800 Speaker 1: what people say, yeah, yeah, and which I which I don't, 1091 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't agree, And um, you know, and I talked 1092 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:44,400 Speaker 1: to the indie labels all the time, and you know, 1093 01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,920 Speaker 1: it's it's funny because you know, the indies like people 1094 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,600 Speaker 1: that have this sort of big narrative out there. And 1095 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,840 Speaker 1: then you know, and then I asked him a simple question, 1096 01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,760 Speaker 1: are the indie labels doing better, you know now that 1097 01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,320 Speaker 1: that Spotify is here? And then they were but four 1098 01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:04,560 Speaker 1: and and uh unanimously the answers, yes, you know, because 1099 01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:08,000 Speaker 1: the Indians are doing are doing much better now, Um, 1100 01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,040 Speaker 1: I think. And as as far as playlists are concerned, 1101 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:18,440 Speaker 1: so just we we have forty playlists owned and operated 1102 01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:24,680 Speaker 1: by Spotify, all different types of niche like niche playlists 1103 01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,240 Speaker 1: as well, So we do have the sort of flagships 1104 01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,680 Speaker 1: to you know, today's top pits, Hot Country, Viva Latino, Rap, 1105 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,560 Speaker 1: Caviare R and B like all of those flagships, But 1106 01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,160 Speaker 1: then you've got a ton of other sort of mid 1107 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:45,800 Speaker 1: tier and feeder playlists that kind of feed up into them. 1108 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,040 Speaker 1: For most of the artists that that that we're talking about, 1109 01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about artists who will who would never get 1110 01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,640 Speaker 1: on radio. By the way, like we know how top 1111 01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,920 Speaker 1: forty works, You better have a huge budget if you 1112 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,600 Speaker 1: want to get if you want to a can record 1113 01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,760 Speaker 1: all formats, be prepared to have a half a half 1114 01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,440 Speaker 1: a million dollars to to go all formats to get 1115 01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:10,240 Speaker 1: a top ten record at radio UM and so, and 1116 01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,360 Speaker 1: you need you need a real system to be to 1117 01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:14,840 Speaker 1: be able to be able to to to to do that, 1118 01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:17,240 Speaker 1: and then you have to have a certain type of 1119 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,040 Speaker 1: record with a certain type of sound. And so if 1120 01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:26,560 Speaker 1: you're looking at top forties specifically, you figure it's let's 1121 01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,280 Speaker 1: call it twenty five slots, and then let's call it 1122 01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,000 Speaker 1: twenty artists that are gonna fulfill those those twenty those 1123 01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,600 Speaker 1: twenty slots. And you know, because of the artists who 1124 01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,840 Speaker 1: are gonna have multiple songs and those slots, so you 1125 01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:45,200 Speaker 1: got uh uh one tenth of a percent, and then 1126 01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,680 Speaker 1: you got the one percent, and you know then then 1127 01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,200 Speaker 1: then it kind of breaks down from there. So I 1128 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,440 Speaker 1: think the sort of ecosystem of our playlist gives a 1129 01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:58,680 Speaker 1: fair shot to the entire industry at that at that point. 1130 01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,520 Speaker 1: And what what The one thing I like, what I 1131 01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:06,760 Speaker 1: love about you know, Spotify is that people can't figure 1132 01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:11,400 Speaker 1: it out. You can't. It's no, it's no hype. So 1133 01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,360 Speaker 1: it's not you can't come in there and and and 1134 01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,720 Speaker 1: sort of hype your record to get us to put 1135 01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:21,520 Speaker 1: it on on on on a playlist. The data doesn't lie, 1136 01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,400 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, okay, but if you talk 1137 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,080 Speaker 1: to like Daniel Glass, he comes to l A, you'll 1138 01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:28,360 Speaker 1: hang out at Apple Music, it'll go to Spotify. To 1139 01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:33,120 Speaker 1: what degree is the personal relationship important? Per Personal relationships 1140 01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,680 Speaker 1: are always going to be important, right, but they're only 1141 01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:40,120 Speaker 1: gonna be important to a certain extent because as much 1142 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,640 Speaker 1: as I love Daniel, and if Daniel doesn't walk in 1143 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,280 Speaker 1: the door with a great record, Daniel's record is gonna 1144 01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:50,320 Speaker 1: be treated like everybody else's record essentially lucky enough, you know, 1145 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,480 Speaker 1: Daniel walks in with Jade Bird and she becomes one 1146 01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,640 Speaker 1: of my favorite artists and we're carrying a jay Bird 1147 01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:59,600 Speaker 1: flag throughout throughout the building or whatever. But would that 1148 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:04,320 Speaker 1: being said, a lot of the stuff that major labels 1149 01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:08,600 Speaker 1: are signing right now aren't coming through any label. They're 1150 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:13,560 Speaker 1: coming through Spotify. So it's we were it's between our editors, 1151 01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:18,760 Speaker 1: um sort of looking at blogs, living on SoundCloud, you know, 1152 01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,240 Speaker 1: sort of digging in the crates, kind of finding new 1153 01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,439 Speaker 1: stuff because they want to discover things. I get calls 1154 01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,640 Speaker 1: from our editors basically saying, um, hey, hey, Troy, I 1155 01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,960 Speaker 1: found this record. Um, we gotta they gotta figure out 1156 01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,799 Speaker 1: to aggregator to put it through because there's no record label, 1157 01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,160 Speaker 1: and then this act will end up with fifty million 1158 01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:40,559 Speaker 1: streams and they'll end up with a record deal and 1159 01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,760 Speaker 1: then the labels that you know are are signing them. 1160 01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,719 Speaker 1: So that's not a lot of the rap caviare stuff 1161 01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,720 Speaker 1: is with stuff that our editors found. Even on the 1162 01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:54,600 Speaker 1: pop side, Mike Mike Baggage finds things and then he 1163 01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,200 Speaker 1: puts it into the pop playlist and then they end 1164 01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:01,720 Speaker 1: up getting signed. So if we what do you see 1165 01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,599 Speaker 1: the future? Because we can go on Spotify right now, 1166 01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,439 Speaker 1: we can see the Spotify Top fifty changes every day. 1167 01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:09,880 Speaker 1: We can see the number of streams and except for 1168 01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:14,040 Speaker 1: the Superstar of Superstars with one single radio is way behind. 1169 01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,639 Speaker 1: They won't add multiple tracks, they're off the months behind. 1170 01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,600 Speaker 1: What do you foresee the future there? You know, I 1171 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,599 Speaker 1: think I think radio's in trouble, you know readio radio 1172 01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:25,880 Speaker 1: as we know, it's in trouble, and I think it's 1173 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,960 Speaker 1: inevitable because the only way from radio that you make 1174 01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:37,000 Speaker 1: your business better is to build the uh an experience. 1175 01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,800 Speaker 1: That's worse for the consumer, meaning you know, you gotta 1176 01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:45,240 Speaker 1: put more ads into and into into the product. So 1177 01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, I even know when if I go and 1178 01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:50,320 Speaker 1: out and I turn on radio, is a high probability 1179 01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:52,360 Speaker 1: that is going to be commercials on so soon as 1180 01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:54,719 Speaker 1: soon as I turn it on. So that's one sort 1181 01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,200 Speaker 1: of friction point, you know, out of the gate. Then 1182 01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:01,640 Speaker 1: the second friction point is radio relies so much on 1183 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,200 Speaker 1: research because they want to do they need to de 1184 01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:07,200 Speaker 1: risk it or whatever. So you know, it's not like 1185 01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:12,960 Speaker 1: when uh DJs and programmers could make independent decisions before 1186 01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,360 Speaker 1: and they felt something and they could put it in, 1187 01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:17,840 Speaker 1: they could put it in right away. A lot of 1188 01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,880 Speaker 1: the radio stations are looking at Spotify data and kind 1189 01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,720 Speaker 1: of using that to decide which which records they're they're 1190 01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,759 Speaker 1: gonna put in. So by the time they hear that 1191 01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,800 Speaker 1: that record is old on Spotify. So you know, So 1192 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,160 Speaker 1: for my kids who get in the car and they're 1193 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, going on Spotify and YouTube to kind of 1194 01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,679 Speaker 1: consume their music, if they turn on Top forty radio, 1195 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,400 Speaker 1: whatever they're hearing is already months old by that time. 1196 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,599 Speaker 1: So I think you lose a consumer at that point, 1197 01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:49,839 Speaker 1: or it starts feeling like, um, almost like an adult 1198 01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,799 Speaker 1: Top forty because you know, you're you're planning old music. 1199 01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,240 Speaker 1: So I think that's a big I think this is 1200 01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:59,920 Speaker 1: a gap. And for us, we can't you know, and 1201 01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,120 Speaker 1: think this is a big you know sort of gap 1202 01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:05,400 Speaker 1: and friction point where you know, Spotify and and and 1203 01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:10,559 Speaker 1: frontline record labels, we can't keep your record in while 1204 01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,720 Speaker 1: you're going for your radio plan because our consumer has 1205 01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,840 Speaker 1: already moved on to your second or third single by 1206 01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,519 Speaker 1: the time you know you're getting added at at radio. 1207 01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,240 Speaker 1: So you know. So I think that's the part that 1208 01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,240 Speaker 1: from an industry perspective, I think on the label side, 1209 01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,120 Speaker 1: they have to figure out what's what's gonna be, what's 1210 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:34,360 Speaker 1: important to you, you know, being current with the consumers 1211 01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,720 Speaker 1: and being able to have you know, songs within the 1212 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:41,120 Speaker 1: within these playlists or you know, getting added at top forty. 1213 01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,360 Speaker 1: So we'll see how to and if we go on 1214 01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:47,120 Speaker 1: the US Top fifty, it is very much urban slash 1215 01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,559 Speaker 1: hip hop. So the question that's obviously illustrating demand, but 1216 01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:57,639 Speaker 1: to what degree does Spotify have a responsibility to give 1217 01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:00,479 Speaker 1: attention to other formats? Let me just say for myself, 1218 01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,439 Speaker 1: let me give an experience. I want to know what's 1219 01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,559 Speaker 1: going on, So I'll go to the Spotify Top fifty. 1220 01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,360 Speaker 1: I'll listen. Then if I think of all the other genres, country, electronic, 1221 01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,320 Speaker 1: it's a lot of work and there are a lot 1222 01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:13,120 Speaker 1: of acts today forget that you people don't teem to 1223 01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:15,800 Speaker 1: understand that you get paid based on whether people stream 1224 01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:19,520 Speaker 1: you or not. But is is are we purely speaking 1225 01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:23,080 Speaker 1: to the public's demand or is there any way or 1226 01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:28,080 Speaker 1: is there responsibility for Spotify to boost other formats? So so, 1227 01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,639 Speaker 1: and as a really really really good question, so where 1228 01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,920 Speaker 1: um so, But so we'll separate it for a second. 1229 01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:38,559 Speaker 1: So when you look at the top fifty, that's just demand, right, 1230 01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:43,880 Speaker 1: So that is that is the pulse of what people 1231 01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,200 Speaker 1: on our platform are are actually listening to. Because the 1232 01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:51,320 Speaker 1: difference with radio is push, the difference with Spotify is 1233 01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,280 Speaker 1: poll So that is consumers actually listening to that to 1234 01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,960 Speaker 1: that music because they can easily skip through it, right, 1235 01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,120 Speaker 1: So this is what this is. He so urban hip 1236 01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:05,040 Speaker 1: hop is really top forty right now in terms is 1237 01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:09,240 Speaker 1: pop music in terms of popularity UM if you look 1238 01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,560 Speaker 1: at you know, we talked last week we announced UM 1239 01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:16,400 Speaker 1: the new the new free app on on Spotify, and 1240 01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:20,120 Speaker 1: a lot of what we talked about was personalization because 1241 01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:24,160 Speaker 1: when the beauty of the beauty of of of data 1242 01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,000 Speaker 1: is being able to give everybody in this room or 1243 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:31,800 Speaker 1: personalized experience. So and and that's that that was a 1244 01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,759 Speaker 1: that's a big friction point because if you're a country 1245 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:38,080 Speaker 1: music fan and you show up and the first thing 1246 01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,559 Speaker 1: you see is is me goes, you know, and in 1247 01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:43,519 Speaker 1: the platform, you might churn out at that point, or 1248 01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,920 Speaker 1: if you can't, or if you feel sort of it's 1249 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,080 Speaker 1: almost like you're walking into a room and not feeling welcome, 1250 01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, So how do you make people feel welcome 1251 01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:55,200 Speaker 1: when they walk into that room. So a lot of 1252 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,360 Speaker 1: the stuff that we're working on right now is built 1253 01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:01,280 Speaker 1: around personalization. So I think what what what people see 1254 01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:04,400 Speaker 1: in the in the new free app from the onboarding 1255 01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,720 Speaker 1: we're gonna, we're gonna, you know, allow you to tell 1256 01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,640 Speaker 1: us about yourself and and so when you come to Spotify, 1257 01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:14,639 Speaker 1: how do we give you a personalized experience? And then um, 1258 01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:18,960 Speaker 1: but you know, it's almost like the personalized experience would 1259 01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:22,120 Speaker 1: be to a the A story and the B story 1260 01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:24,599 Speaker 1: is more to shared experience, you know. And I think 1261 01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,519 Speaker 1: right now it's a little bit of the opposite where 1262 01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,120 Speaker 1: it was in the past. It was the opposite where 1263 01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:33,840 Speaker 1: it was the shared story was for was out in front, 1264 01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:38,320 Speaker 1: and then the personalization was more in to discover weekly 1265 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:45,680 Speaker 1: product and and things like that. We'll plause here for 1266 01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,559 Speaker 1: a brief moment and get right back to the Director 1267 01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:54,559 Speaker 1: of Creative Services and Spotify, Troy Carter. As you probably know, 1268 01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm mainly a writer and you can read my work 1269 01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:59,920 Speaker 1: at left sets dot com. If you sign up for 1270 01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,679 Speaker 1: the newsletter, not only will you get my commentary on music, 1271 01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:06,200 Speaker 1: tech and my life in general, you'll be the first 1272 01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,240 Speaker 1: to find out when we publish a new conversation. Go 1273 01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:13,080 Speaker 1: to left steps dot com and sign up now more 1274 01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:16,000 Speaker 1: were the director of Creative Services, that's Spotify, Troy Carter, 1275 01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:21,240 Speaker 1: recorded live at the Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara, California. Okay, 1276 01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:24,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna open up the questions now. Two things, One 1277 01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:29,200 Speaker 1: wait for a mic, and to please ask a question 1278 01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,400 Speaker 1: as opposed to giving your opinion. We're certainly interested in 1279 01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,200 Speaker 1: your opinion, but everybody may not. It's certainly for dinner 1280 01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:38,000 Speaker 1: or other times. So I have Troy here, please make 1281 01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:44,599 Speaker 1: it a question. Since you're talking about personalization, so you're 1282 01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:50,520 Speaker 1: saying that you're getting receiving enough qualitative data to give somebody, 1283 01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,680 Speaker 1: uh human behavior personalization. That's that's how much data you 1284 01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:59,439 Speaker 1: guys are receiving too, to personalize your face for that person, 1285 01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:04,800 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. So just understanding how people listening to, how 1286 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:09,080 Speaker 1: how people listen to music and um, what types of 1287 01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:13,599 Speaker 1: people are listening to what types of music allows us 1288 01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:19,200 Speaker 1: to give a better listening experience. So in terms and 1289 01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:25,160 Speaker 1: in that you know, it's funny because when when you 1290 01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,040 Speaker 1: talk about data now because of the Facebook thing, you know, 1291 01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:32,439 Speaker 1: it kind of freaks people out right. Um, but data 1292 01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,120 Speaker 1: used in the right way can give you an incredible experience. 1293 01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:43,160 Speaker 1: So if you look at ten years of understanding the 1294 01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:48,479 Speaker 1: way tens and tens of millions, over a hundred million 1295 01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:52,240 Speaker 1: people listening listen to music. You really understand how to 1296 01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:55,200 Speaker 1: personalize and experience and that's how that's why I discover 1297 01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:59,519 Speaker 1: Weekly worked really well, Release Radar worked really well, and 1298 01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:04,120 Speaker 1: then um daily Mix worked really well. And now UM, 1299 01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,720 Speaker 1: I think we're we're we're we're able to dial it 1300 01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:13,280 Speaker 1: in even even better. Next question, Jim, we have to Mike, 1301 01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:17,720 Speaker 1: So if someone else get a Mike Jake. UM, I 1302 01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,120 Speaker 1: have a question, if you guys have ever looked at 1303 01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:25,160 Speaker 1: the genre of music against the free service versus the 1304 01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:28,960 Speaker 1: paid service? Can you? I think what he means is 1305 01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:32,519 Speaker 1: do people listen who are paying listen to different stuff 1306 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,400 Speaker 1: from the people who are not paying? Yeah, and and 1307 01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,200 Speaker 1: and do you have data on that? So the answer 1308 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,080 Speaker 1: would be, I'm a pent sure we have data data 1309 01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:47,760 Speaker 1: on that. Um. I wouldn't be able to break down specifically. 1310 01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,760 Speaker 1: I could say it broadly, you know, in terms of 1311 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:55,559 Speaker 1: like sort of premium premium versus free, but um not 1312 01:17:55,680 --> 01:18:00,479 Speaker 1: really specifically right right now, okay, general and right here, 1313 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:02,920 Speaker 1: Hey Trow, I'm here from Sweden. There's a lot of 1314 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:06,639 Speaker 1: debate um back where I'm from about the sort of 1315 01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,639 Speaker 1: payment models from Spotify little bit a little bit louder 1316 01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:13,280 Speaker 1: places the payment models from Spotify to the labels, and 1317 01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:15,960 Speaker 1: from the labels to the artists and the sort of 1318 01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:19,360 Speaker 1: royalty pool that's being built up. Do you know if 1319 01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:22,240 Speaker 1: Spotify is planning to change anything in the model in 1320 01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:25,360 Speaker 1: the nearest future or instead of discussion that happens in 1321 01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:30,840 Speaker 1: the office. Well, um, and this is is a is 1322 01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:34,240 Speaker 1: a good question. You know. The reality is, you know, 1323 01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:39,160 Speaker 1: you kind of we I think we've gone through the 1324 01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:45,080 Speaker 1: sort of in a very very beginning of Spotify when 1325 01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:49,280 Speaker 1: when people said Spotify doesn't pay pay out, they were 1326 01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,280 Speaker 1: right because it was no scale, right, So it's just, 1327 01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's only a certain amount of paying customers 1328 01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:00,599 Speaker 1: on the platform, So the royalty payments were We're smaller 1329 01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,439 Speaker 1: in the beginning. You fast forward, now we we paid 1330 01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:08,240 Speaker 1: out over eight billion euros you know, to to to 1331 01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:14,320 Speaker 1: the music industry, and but how that's distributed to artists 1332 01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:19,080 Speaker 1: and creators is based off of individual deals. So at 1333 01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:23,040 Speaker 1: that point, you know, it's we can't make um, rights 1334 01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:27,400 Speaker 1: holders pay out any specific way, you know, is their 1335 01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:31,720 Speaker 1: individual deals with individual artists. Um. But the reality is, 1336 01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:37,599 Speaker 1: I think quite naturally, UM, just what what I see 1337 01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:42,000 Speaker 1: happening generally in the industry the next ten years are 1338 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,439 Speaker 1: gonna look a lot different because you have a lot 1339 01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:51,080 Speaker 1: of are you got. I'm seeing artists that are um 1340 01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,040 Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna speak very candidly. I'm seeing a 1341 01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:57,240 Speaker 1: lot of artists that are opting to stay independent because 1342 01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,519 Speaker 1: they're seeing how much, you know, you can really make, 1343 01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:02,640 Speaker 1: you can really make a living and you get you 1344 01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,880 Speaker 1: get real cash flow in terms of not having to wait, 1345 01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,599 Speaker 1: you know, along along if you are independent, how often 1346 01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,000 Speaker 1: you get paid from Spotify, um you get. It depends 1347 01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,679 Speaker 1: on your aggregator and how your aggregator works. But let's 1348 01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,559 Speaker 1: say on average you get a monthly payment that trails. Right, 1349 01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,040 Speaker 1: So if I didn't mean to interrupt, do you get 1350 01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,760 Speaker 1: a monthly payment that that trails. But let's just talk 1351 01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:23,920 Speaker 1: about the future of the business. Right If we look 1352 01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:26,240 Speaker 1: at the future of the business, and we look at 1353 01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:29,720 Speaker 1: a cross and this isn't me predicting Spotify, I'm just 1354 01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,840 Speaker 1: talking specifically for the industry and looking at other types 1355 01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:37,280 Speaker 1: of industry, why shouldn't artists get paid If uber drivers 1356 01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:41,280 Speaker 1: and lift drivers now can say cash out after their 1357 01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:44,200 Speaker 1: drive and that and it goes directly into their bank 1358 01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:48,000 Speaker 1: account of PayPal account, my guess is artists in the future, 1359 01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:50,479 Speaker 1: are gonna be able to cash out after a day 1360 01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,479 Speaker 1: of streams, how whenever they meet, whenever they need that money. 1361 01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:56,519 Speaker 1: And cash flow is a big problem with artists. We 1362 01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:58,880 Speaker 1: know you might need to pay rent, you might need 1363 01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,400 Speaker 1: to buy gear, you might be going on tour, whatever, 1364 01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:03,439 Speaker 1: you might need to buy a car, whatever you need 1365 01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:08,760 Speaker 1: to do. Cash flows an issue. So when historically you 1366 01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,120 Speaker 1: know record labels have taken care of a cash flow problem, 1367 01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:17,360 Speaker 1: But in so I think UM, the question, the bigger 1368 01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:25,240 Speaker 1: question becomes value proposition. Well, the value proposition UM for 1369 01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:29,879 Speaker 1: of giving up eighty five of your of your revenue 1370 01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:37,400 Speaker 1: in exchange for marketing, promotion, cash advance, whatever is it 1371 01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:41,479 Speaker 1: gonna be worth it? And that's I think that's gonna 1372 01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,120 Speaker 1: be That's gonna be the biggest trick. But I think 1373 01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't think deals are gonna stay the same. I 1374 01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:50,559 Speaker 1: think that the whole value chain is gonna change. I 1375 01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:55,960 Speaker 1: think record labels are gonna um evolve their their value proposition. 1376 01:21:56,360 --> 01:21:59,720 Speaker 1: I think managers are gonna evolve their value proposition. I 1377 01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:03,720 Speaker 1: think UM those services are gonna start looking like each other. 1378 01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,600 Speaker 1: Management companies will look like labels, labels will look like 1379 01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:10,000 Speaker 1: management companies, and UM and then, But from there, I 1380 01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,760 Speaker 1: think it's going to be about the value that the 1381 01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,080 Speaker 1: artists feel like they can capture in the end. Does 1382 01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:18,920 Speaker 1: that answer? Does that help well? The other the other? 1383 01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,519 Speaker 1: But the other thing about I think you're addressing is 1384 01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,680 Speaker 1: at this point in time, is it's sixty seven or 1385 01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,799 Speaker 1: sixty eight percent of every dollar goes to right soldiers 1386 01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:30,720 Speaker 1: um from from Spotify. Yes, some somewhere in the area. Right, 1387 01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,640 Speaker 1: So what happened if you to deal with an aggregator 1388 01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:35,479 Speaker 1: like tune in, you pay, I mean the tune cord 1389 01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:37,800 Speaker 1: you paid once a year, all that money will be yours, 1390 01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,400 Speaker 1: assuming you both write the song and record the song. 1391 01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:43,320 Speaker 1: But if there's someone in between, like a label, assuming 1392 01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:46,639 Speaker 1: they're paying you at all, your deal maybe fifteen cents 1393 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:50,000 Speaker 1: on the dollar that they get. But the issue this 1394 01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:53,160 Speaker 1: is also an interesting issue because they don't really want 1395 01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:56,759 Speaker 1: Spotify if they really start talking about this and pointing 1396 01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,280 Speaker 1: at the labels, their partners. The labels don't like it 1397 01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,519 Speaker 1: to be talked about. And we don't have to point 1398 01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:03,840 Speaker 1: like it, I think, And that's the whole thing, Like 1399 01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:07,479 Speaker 1: it's you know where where it's it's we We are 1400 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:11,720 Speaker 1: a very transparent company and you know we don't. We 1401 01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,519 Speaker 1: don't play hide the ball with with with record labels. 1402 01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:19,479 Speaker 1: We talked very openly about the about our business to them. Um. 1403 01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,200 Speaker 1: We also talked to to to the record labels about 1404 01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:24,800 Speaker 1: what the future the business is gonna look like. And 1405 01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:29,840 Speaker 1: Daniels a guy who he lives ten years in the 1406 01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:33,799 Speaker 1: in in the future, like that's that's how he he thinks. 1407 01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:37,200 Speaker 1: And you know, my and you know and I laugh 1408 01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:39,519 Speaker 1: because at times I say, hold on you your ten 1409 01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:42,439 Speaker 1: years in the future. Sometimes I'm dealing with people who 1410 01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:45,240 Speaker 1: are ten years in the past. I gotta client of clothes. 1411 01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:53,680 Speaker 1: I gotta close the gap a little because mine very quickly. Okay, No, 1412 01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:55,800 Speaker 1: So I think Spotify is great, and I think that 1413 01:23:55,880 --> 01:24:01,240 Speaker 1: the okay and the payout is to rear to all distributions. 1414 01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:04,439 Speaker 1: So that's all great. I'm what part of my question 1415 01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,160 Speaker 1: was relating to the sort of pool what happens if 1416 01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:12,519 Speaker 1: I pay my I don't know what it's here not so, 1417 01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:15,320 Speaker 1: But what you're addressing is if I pay ten dollars 1418 01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,320 Speaker 1: and only listen to bandex, should be index get all 1419 01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:21,120 Speaker 1: of my ten dollars. About five years ago, somebody ran 1420 01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:24,080 Speaker 1: the numbers and they found that people were actually going 1421 01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:26,760 Speaker 1: to make less under that basis. I haven't seen the 1422 01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:30,080 Speaker 1: numbers run recently, but I would just go to the 1423 01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,679 Speaker 1: bottom line is but it goes to the pool, right Yeah. 1424 01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:37,200 Speaker 1: Spotify pays based on the listens, and every at least 1425 01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:39,519 Speaker 1: once a week somebody emails being something that's got fifty 1426 01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:41,800 Speaker 1: million streams that I have never heard of. It's not 1427 01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:44,920 Speaker 1: on a label. So people email me all the time 1428 01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:47,120 Speaker 1: that they're getting not even a million streams. Why are 1429 01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:50,280 Speaker 1: they not making money? The demand is not that high, 1430 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,759 Speaker 1: but interesting topics just want to gainst other people a chance. Gentlemen, 1431 01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,160 Speaker 1: when Lady back there in a million, a million streams 1432 01:24:56,240 --> 01:25:01,440 Speaker 1: isn't a lot on our platform, I'm gonna switch topics 1433 01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,559 Speaker 1: just very quickly. I've loved this so much. Thank you. 1434 01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:08,040 Speaker 1: My background, I'm a Silicon Valley nerd and worked in 1435 01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:11,800 Speaker 1: digital audio forever, started off at digit Design and I 1436 01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:15,240 Speaker 1: have to hear, uh, what the tip was that Jimmy 1437 01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:18,800 Speaker 1: Ivan gave you to make Lady Gagas sound better on tour. 1438 01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:22,639 Speaker 1: I've just been dying to know what that was. That 1439 01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:28,520 Speaker 1: was what we we fired our front of house guy. 1440 01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:30,920 Speaker 1: I worked with a lot of sound engineers, so I 1441 01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,720 Speaker 1: know Horace, so hopefully it wasn't well. By the way, 1442 01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,240 Speaker 1: I love Horrors. By the way Hars we were Horrors 1443 01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:38,400 Speaker 1: was out with us for a long time. He's great. 1444 01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,880 Speaker 1: By the way, he did some of our best tours. Okay, 1445 01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,439 Speaker 1: we probably got hard right over here on the left, 1446 01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:46,920 Speaker 1: just to show we have interest over here. While he's standing, 1447 01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:50,400 Speaker 1: he can get it. We'll get next. Hi. Try great. 1448 01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,760 Speaker 1: This was a great discussion, moderation aside. I thought it 1449 01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:59,800 Speaker 1: was fantastic. Um. I mean talking ten years down down 1450 01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:02,519 Speaker 1: the road, the way Daniel seems to look at things. Um, 1451 01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:05,439 Speaker 1: some of us also try to look that way in 1452 01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:07,720 Speaker 1: terms of you know, you you mentioned a lot of 1453 01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:10,759 Speaker 1: strategic partnerships that you've had in your other business dealings. 1454 01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:15,679 Speaker 1: What about in terms of touring. Has Spotify looked towards 1455 01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:20,599 Speaker 1: strategic partnerships in that respect? You know, I talked we 1456 01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:23,240 Speaker 1: we talked about touring a lot, just because you know, 1457 01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:29,799 Speaker 1: it's it's an industry that we feel is it's it's broken, 1458 01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:34,519 Speaker 1: you know. Um. I was talking to one of our 1459 01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:38,480 Speaker 1: engineers about you know, product, and I was telling them 1460 01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:43,080 Speaker 1: it was I think it was with Gaga we sold out. 1461 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:46,040 Speaker 1: We would put a tour up and I got a 1462 01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:49,360 Speaker 1: call from the promoter and they said, hey, we sold 1463 01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:53,200 Speaker 1: out four gardens and X amount of time, and you 1464 01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,559 Speaker 1: know we had we we had another two or three 1465 01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:59,840 Speaker 1: in the queue. I'm thinking, I'm like, that's not good news. 1466 01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:03,639 Speaker 1: Somebody should have known that it was you know, enough, 1467 01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:07,120 Speaker 1: we could have done three more gardens instead of us 1468 01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:11,320 Speaker 1: having to go to fucking Jersey after New York. Because 1469 01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:16,040 Speaker 1: to be able to monetize not have to pack up 1470 01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:20,400 Speaker 1: and move your show, not have to be hard on 1471 01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:23,879 Speaker 1: the artist's physical body by having to move them around 1472 01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:28,040 Speaker 1: is so many inefficiencies and in touring, and so the 1473 01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:31,280 Speaker 1: way towards around it right now is not through data, 1474 01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,920 Speaker 1: is basically through guys who have been out on the road, 1475 01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:40,759 Speaker 1: through booking agents, um, through hey, uh, this pop act 1476 01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,600 Speaker 1: did this amount of O two so you should be 1477 01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:45,599 Speaker 1: able to do this amount of O twos or whatever. 1478 01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:50,280 Speaker 1: There's no data. The merchandise business is the same exact thing. 1479 01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:53,720 Speaker 1: It's no it's no data. So we feel like, you know, 1480 01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:57,080 Speaker 1: there's enough data at least that we have where we 1481 01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:01,400 Speaker 1: can identify super fans on on the platform and specific markets, 1482 01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:05,880 Speaker 1: and if with access to other types of data be 1483 01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:10,559 Speaker 1: at venue data pollstar data, you know, the artists, you know, UM, 1484 01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:14,519 Speaker 1: their their fan site data, some other things. You can 1485 01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:20,400 Speaker 1: really make well informed decisions on touring, but not even 1486 01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:31,960 Speaker 1: the getta getta my. But I think even the product 1487 01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:36,840 Speaker 1: now though, to me, is remedial in terms of what's available. 1488 01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:39,920 Speaker 1: Like to be honest with you, I like routing the 1489 01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:46,559 Speaker 1: tour is the easiest part, right, but understanding who is 1490 01:28:56,360 --> 01:29:00,760 Speaker 1: I'm doing that now? I'm doing it now. I did 1491 01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:04,640 Speaker 1: three hundred of them last year probably, so we you know, 1492 01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:07,280 Speaker 1: we probably sold close to a hundred million and tickets 1493 01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:11,200 Speaker 1: for people, so we we Well, so it's supposed to 1494 01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:13,439 Speaker 1: be clear. I get that email who's playing in my 1495 01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:18,240 Speaker 1: neighborhood from Spotify, but not not that okay, so I'm 1496 01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:20,839 Speaker 1: aware of that. Tell me about selling the super fans. 1497 01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:25,960 Speaker 1: So so basically yes, So basically what happens is UM 1498 01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,360 Speaker 1: booking agents come to us or managers that come to us, 1499 01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:33,000 Speaker 1: and we do two things. So we either can help 1500 01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:37,080 Speaker 1: UM a lot of like superstars that come to us, 1501 01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:41,160 Speaker 1: and they'll say, we only want our super fans and 1502 01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:45,479 Speaker 1: x amount in the first few rows throughout the entire tour. 1503 01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,160 Speaker 1: So can you market the show with this? With the 1504 01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:52,840 Speaker 1: with this ticket allocation to our super fans. So that's 1505 01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:55,400 Speaker 1: one one part of it, so where we'll market the 1506 01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:58,240 Speaker 1: show to the super fans on our through our platform 1507 01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:01,040 Speaker 1: essentially through our data. And then the other piece of 1508 01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:04,599 Speaker 1: it is distressed inventory, So for shows that aren't selling, 1509 01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:09,120 Speaker 1: being able to identify those super fans and those markets 1510 01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:12,240 Speaker 1: who may not know that the show's coming through and 1511 01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:15,400 Speaker 1: being able to to sell the distressed inventory as well. 1512 01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:18,439 Speaker 1: So what you'll see and by the way, even with 1513 01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:21,719 Speaker 1: the amount of tickets that we sold through there, um, 1514 01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:25,760 Speaker 1: we still think it's remedial. So the products that you 1515 01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:27,840 Speaker 1: know we're working on right now, we feel like it's 1516 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:30,200 Speaker 1: gonna get better and better. So one like one of 1517 01:30:30,240 --> 01:30:34,680 Speaker 1: the things Daniel talked about on our investor relations day, um, 1518 01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:37,360 Speaker 1: you know a couple of months ago, was this idea 1519 01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:41,600 Speaker 1: about a mark building out a marketplace. So essentially spotify 1520 01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,840 Speaker 1: is is will evolve into a marketplace where artists don't 1521 01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:47,920 Speaker 1: need us to do it. They'll be able to come 1522 01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:50,880 Speaker 1: on there and reach their fans directly, sell their tickets 1523 01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:54,760 Speaker 1: to their fans, directly merchandise message their fans, and to 1524 01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,840 Speaker 1: kind of build this relationship. Okay, who has the mic 1525 01:30:57,960 --> 01:30:59,720 Speaker 1: right now, I got I got one over here. I 1526 01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:04,960 Speaker 1: just round it. Thank you, thank you. UM. You brought 1527 01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:08,720 Speaker 1: up India verses or artists wanting to stay indy. I 1528 01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:11,160 Speaker 1: think one of the biggest points of that is to 1529 01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:14,559 Speaker 1: have control. How many artists have recorded records and are 1530 01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:16,800 Speaker 1: just sitting there. So I think the biggest factor and 1531 01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:20,120 Speaker 1: staying independent is to have that control of of doing 1532 01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:23,160 Speaker 1: your career the way you wanted to. UM. I've been 1533 01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:25,960 Speaker 1: on both sides of the majors in the Indies. I 1534 01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:29,719 Speaker 1: spent my first fifty or sixty decades at a major 1535 01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:33,160 Speaker 1: and my last sixty decades on the indie side. UM. 1536 01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:35,960 Speaker 1: I think right now, you know the answer is. I 1537 01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:40,560 Speaker 1: don't think it's radio or Spotify or TV or festivals 1538 01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:43,240 Speaker 1: or it's almost like what you did with Gaga is 1539 01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:45,840 Speaker 1: you ran around and did everything. You know. I think 1540 01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,919 Speaker 1: the future kind of is the past. I was preceded 1541 01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:52,360 Speaker 1: by a guy named Juggie Gayles, and Juggie was like 1542 01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:54,679 Speaker 1: a song he was. He was a plugger. They called 1543 01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:57,640 Speaker 1: him song Fluggers, and they just went everywhere they went, 1544 01:31:57,760 --> 01:31:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, and you go everywhere. You have this intuition 1545 01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:02,880 Speaker 1: and you navigate it and try to you know fan 1546 01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:05,479 Speaker 1: the flames. I I think you know you brought up 1547 01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:09,400 Speaker 1: research and radio's research. I don't think the concept of 1548 01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:13,080 Speaker 1: research isn't incorrect. Like I look at the research on Spotify, 1549 01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:15,760 Speaker 1: you look at what people are really doing. I think 1550 01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:20,200 Speaker 1: radio built this archaic, um call out research paradigm where 1551 01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:22,880 Speaker 1: they feel they can look in the rear view mirror 1552 01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:24,640 Speaker 1: or as those are the people who are listening to 1553 01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:27,439 Speaker 1: their stations. And that's that's what the problem is. It's 1554 01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:31,599 Speaker 1: it's they're so entrenched in that system and that's what's 1555 01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:35,560 Speaker 1: hurting them to, you know, to move to towards the future. Um. 1556 01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:40,360 Speaker 1: I was um thinking about Spotify. I was thinking about consumption. 1557 01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:42,920 Speaker 1: Everything is about you know you when you look at 1558 01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:45,439 Speaker 1: the numbers on wrap or Wrap Cavy or a hip hop, 1559 01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:49,280 Speaker 1: there tend to one right oh and yet where you 1560 01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:51,800 Speaker 1: may tend to one in terms of like I look 1561 01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:54,880 Speaker 1: at the amount of followers, the amount of listeners, the 1562 01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:58,479 Speaker 1: amount how how huge hip hop is right now? And 1563 01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,400 Speaker 1: I was thinking about the live business, about about these 1564 01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:06,559 Speaker 1: festivals where I'm getting to the question, um, when when 1565 01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:10,680 Speaker 1: you're looking at these festivals now Lallapalooza, bonar ruays here 1566 01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:13,680 Speaker 1: every day, there's more and more festivals and what's driving them, 1567 01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:17,240 Speaker 1: and it's it's um. The irony is that it's a 1568 01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:19,720 Speaker 1: time when people can be alone, they can sit in 1569 01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:22,920 Speaker 1: their house and be on the internet. They're all going 1570 01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:26,200 Speaker 1: out to these festivals and all you know, it's it's 1571 01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:29,679 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me. And when I look at these 1572 01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:31,720 Speaker 1: festivals and I look at again, I'm not in the 1573 01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:34,000 Speaker 1: touring side. I'm on the record of music side, but 1574 01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:38,559 Speaker 1: that that's being driven a lot by alternative and rock 1575 01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:40,519 Speaker 1: more than I think, you know, on the hip hop side. 1576 01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:43,040 Speaker 1: And my question to you is, why do you think 1577 01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:47,719 Speaker 1: there's such a disparity between you know, the recorded music side, 1578 01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:50,080 Speaker 1: the hip hop and the wrap and the live business 1579 01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:52,760 Speaker 1: where these people are coming out in droves. Why is 1580 01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,360 Speaker 1: the recorded music and have such a higher demand, you know, 1581 01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:59,400 Speaker 1: on the hip hop side compared to I don't think 1582 01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:02,599 Speaker 1: it's a already at all. Like you know, you see 1583 01:34:04,360 --> 01:34:07,599 Speaker 1: hip hop acts that are selling you know, arenas out 1584 01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:10,240 Speaker 1: every every single night of a week, So I like, 1585 01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:12,360 Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's a disparity. 1586 01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:14,920 Speaker 1: And then when you look at you know, I think 1587 01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,959 Speaker 1: they're especially with the younger consumer like a Cachella consumer 1588 01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:22,559 Speaker 1: or or lollapalooza. You know, you look at the festival 1589 01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:26,800 Speaker 1: lineups and is diverse, you know, and I think the diversity, Yeah, 1590 01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:30,040 Speaker 1: I think the diversity and and um, even with this 1591 01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:34,120 Speaker 1: past Catchella is a reflection of the way you know, 1592 01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:36,840 Speaker 1: kids are listening to music, so where they are listening 1593 01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:41,000 Speaker 1: to all different all different types. Huh it was Mike 1594 01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:43,080 Speaker 1: right here. I don't, I don't. It's not that it's 1595 01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:46,519 Speaker 1: catching up. I don't think it was ever behind. Actually 1596 01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:47,880 Speaker 1: I think it was behind. I think a lot of 1597 01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:50,920 Speaker 1: the festivals were booked by old white guys. But but 1598 01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:54,240 Speaker 1: when you say live, live and festivals are two different things. 1599 01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:56,880 Speaker 1: The lot, the lot, the live business has never been, 1600 01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:01,040 Speaker 1: never been behind. But like I think festival realized they 1601 01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:03,240 Speaker 1: had to wake up and diversify the business if they 1602 01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:19,800 Speaker 1: wanted to keep with the with the consumer. Okay, gentlemen here, Okay, yeah, um, 1603 01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:22,240 Speaker 1: going back, I think Bob, you're you actually asked a 1604 01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:26,479 Speaker 1: question about uh, possibly labels controlling too much of what 1605 01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:31,200 Speaker 1: gets to the list. Um, you made a comment about hype. 1606 01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:33,439 Speaker 1: Is you know there's no hype, it's the numbers don't lie, 1607 01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:40,320 Speaker 1: which list though well, because it's paylists right, right, So 1608 01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:44,080 Speaker 1: here's my question is of those how many how many 1609 01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:46,920 Speaker 1: editors are there? And then sort of the part two is, 1610 01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:50,200 Speaker 1: let's take an act that has no touring base, right, 1611 01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:53,040 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna use some old terms, but you can 1612 01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:55,599 Speaker 1: never get to call out without having the ad, right, 1613 01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:57,519 Speaker 1: So you've got to have that initial ad before you 1614 01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:00,720 Speaker 1: can get the call out. So before you can get 1615 01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:02,800 Speaker 1: to numbers, there have to be some amount of hype 1616 01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:05,400 Speaker 1: or some amount of connection to those editors, right, No, 1617 01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:07,720 Speaker 1: not at all, like it's it's just a it's a 1618 01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:12,320 Speaker 1: handful like so to answer, I'll answer if you your questions. 1619 01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:17,240 Speaker 1: So is is a few hundred editors globally at Spotify, 1620 01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:23,720 Speaker 1: across the across the different genres. Our editors especially and 1621 01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:28,800 Speaker 1: in certain specific genres, they pride like part of their 1622 01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:33,720 Speaker 1: culture is you got to find stuff before everybody else 1623 01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:36,200 Speaker 1: finds it. That's like that's part of hip hop culture, 1624 01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:39,240 Speaker 1: by the way, and part of Latin culture is as well. 1625 01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:42,479 Speaker 1: You want to get there early before anybody gets it. 1626 01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:46,480 Speaker 1: So they're looking for and they're competing with other services 1627 01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:49,080 Speaker 1: as well trying to find stuff. So a lot of 1628 01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:54,320 Speaker 1: the stuff that um our editors are finding like record 1629 01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:58,719 Speaker 1: companies call me every single day of the week trying 1630 01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:02,479 Speaker 1: to sign acts that are independent on on on Spotify. 1631 01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:04,960 Speaker 1: They're trying to sign these records that are that that 1632 01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:08,160 Speaker 1: are doing well. And then you know, in the reality 1633 01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:11,840 Speaker 1: and just when we look at some of the big categories, 1634 01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:16,800 Speaker 1: major labels are over index and a hit records you got, 1635 01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, so you know, when we talk about you know, 1636 01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:25,760 Speaker 1: certain name like certain categories that people come to me 1637 01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:29,240 Speaker 1: sort of complaining about, they can't name me any big 1638 01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:31,639 Speaker 1: acts in that in that category in the first place. 1639 01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:34,680 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, I think major labels do 1640 01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:39,080 Speaker 1: an incredible job at making big top forty records, so 1641 01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:43,400 Speaker 1: that quite naturally they're gonna control a big portion of 1642 01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:47,840 Speaker 1: big top forty playlists. You know. When it comes to 1643 01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:51,760 Speaker 1: jazz music, maybe not so much. It comes to some 1644 01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:54,920 Speaker 1: of the categories, maybe maybe not so much. But I 1645 01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,920 Speaker 1: think it's um I think it's one of those things 1646 01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:02,360 Speaker 1: that people have started talking about so much that people 1647 01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:05,640 Speaker 1: start believing that that that's actually the case. And I 1648 01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:11,200 Speaker 1: just come from I come from a school of hit 1649 01:38:11,320 --> 01:38:18,080 Speaker 1: records work, hit records work. Doug Morris, I remember going 1650 01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:21,559 Speaker 1: into Doug Morris's office after he left Universal and right 1651 01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:24,760 Speaker 1: before he went into Sony and UM, and he was 1652 01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:29,000 Speaker 1: asking me about, um, what a record that that we 1653 01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:31,639 Speaker 1: that that I put out on one of our acts, 1654 01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:33,800 Speaker 1: and you know, and I said, you know what, the 1655 01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:36,519 Speaker 1: video was too dark? You know, I kind of saw this, 1656 01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, just change with the consumer. And you know 1657 01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't popping up. He said, no, it wasn't a hit. 1658 01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:48,040 Speaker 1: He said, it wasn't a hit. And that's the reality. 1659 01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,800 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to admit when their records aren't hits. So 1660 01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:55,479 Speaker 1: most of the complaints I get from people don't they 1661 01:38:55,520 --> 01:39:04,000 Speaker 1: don't have hit records over here. You mentioned that streaming 1662 01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:06,120 Speaker 1: is in its infancy. What does it look like when 1663 01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:09,719 Speaker 1: it's matured? And also based on the data, what emerging 1664 01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:12,400 Speaker 1: genres are there that you guys are seeing. Well, you know, 1665 01:39:12,479 --> 01:39:14,439 Speaker 1: I think you know when you talk about when when 1666 01:39:14,479 --> 01:39:16,840 Speaker 1: it's matured, you know, and this is where I think 1667 01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:21,720 Speaker 1: we underestimate, you know, the size of of what the 1668 01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:25,840 Speaker 1: global recorded music market is going to be. So everybody 1669 01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:30,000 Speaker 1: talks about the sort of heyday of the record business 1670 01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:32,280 Speaker 1: at its height, and you know, when we were selling 1671 01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:35,400 Speaker 1: selling a lot of C D s more people are 1672 01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:38,360 Speaker 1: on on this planet are gonna have mobile phones than 1673 01:39:38,439 --> 01:39:41,479 Speaker 1: they had CD players. So and when you look at 1674 01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:48,240 Speaker 1: the amount of youth, the youth population that's rising in 1675 01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:52,439 Speaker 1: Africa and in India, you look at China that you 1676 01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:55,920 Speaker 1: know that's never been a factor. And how and the 1677 01:39:56,120 --> 01:40:00,519 Speaker 1: and the paid music market I think is gonna. I 1678 01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:05,040 Speaker 1: think the music industry is gonna undergo exponential growth like 1679 01:40:05,200 --> 01:40:08,080 Speaker 1: we've never seen before. I think what we have to 1680 01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:14,000 Speaker 1: adjust to, you know, we are I think as and 1681 01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:18,439 Speaker 1: I'm just saying is just generally speaking the music industry 1682 01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:22,679 Speaker 1: we operate as elite like, as elitists. So where we're 1683 01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:26,520 Speaker 1: under this impression that everybody is gonna buy a subscription 1684 01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:30,640 Speaker 1: and everybody in the world can afford. And if you 1685 01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:34,280 Speaker 1: look at the price of gas this week, people can't 1686 01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:37,080 Speaker 1: afford to put gas in their tank. People are barely 1687 01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:41,800 Speaker 1: making it in this country. People are struggling. And I 1688 01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:46,840 Speaker 1: think it's finding ways where Okay, whether it's through uh, 1689 01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, advertising subsidies or whatever. I think there's ways 1690 01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:56,080 Speaker 1: to monetize you know, a billion plus consumer base across 1691 01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, the the entire music industry. Um, I think 1692 01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,000 Speaker 1: day the plans you know, and that's one of the 1693 01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:04,120 Speaker 1: things we talked about last week with the new free 1694 01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:06,880 Speaker 1: tier was being able to you know, we built you know, 1695 01:41:07,040 --> 01:41:10,000 Speaker 1: lighter data plans because you know, so on on your phone, 1696 01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:12,599 Speaker 1: it's not eating up your data plan. So I think 1697 01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:17,400 Speaker 1: what's ahead of us is gonna is it's gonna. I 1698 01:41:17,479 --> 01:41:20,160 Speaker 1: think we're gonna see something like we we've never seen before. 1699 01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:26,560 Speaker 1: But but the market is UM. I don't want to 1700 01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:28,639 Speaker 1: say a number, but I think it's way, way bigger 1701 01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:31,120 Speaker 1: than what we've ever seen. Young lady right here, you've 1702 01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:35,920 Speaker 1: been waiting. I UM. What about the role um of 1703 01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:40,599 Speaker 1: curators on the platform and independent curators. Is Spotify developing 1704 01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:44,760 Speaker 1: a program even for example radio stations, blogs, um, just 1705 01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:47,840 Speaker 1: independent curators. What I don't see anything being done for 1706 01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:52,520 Speaker 1: profiles for those entities and people. You you have independent 1707 01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:56,360 Speaker 1: curators that um, that are on the platform where you 1708 01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:59,320 Speaker 1: know where they and some people do a really good 1709 01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:01,360 Speaker 1: job at promo in their playlists and they you know, 1710 01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:05,439 Speaker 1: built followers. UM. You know, for us, our priority had 1711 01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:09,080 Speaker 1: to be our own and operated playlists, you know, because 1712 01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:12,160 Speaker 1: I think we were able to control the integrity of 1713 01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:15,120 Speaker 1: those playlists. And what I mean by that is just 1714 01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:18,960 Speaker 1: making sure it doesn't turn to a place where people 1715 01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:22,200 Speaker 1: can pay people to get on playlist and you know 1716 01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:25,640 Speaker 1: so and I think you know, when that ecosystem was 1717 01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:28,280 Speaker 1: open in the in the beginning, a lot of you know, 1718 01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:31,040 Speaker 1: we had to change the terms of services because you 1719 01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:34,160 Speaker 1: had a lot of people paying to get on playlists 1720 01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:37,840 Speaker 1: or you know, exchanging favors to get on to get 1721 01:42:37,880 --> 01:42:40,840 Speaker 1: on playlists. And the only thing that does is makes 1722 01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:47,559 Speaker 1: for uh a terrible consumer experience versus best song wins. 1723 01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:51,080 Speaker 1: So essentially, if we can program in a way where 1724 01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:54,519 Speaker 1: where best song wins is a better experience for the 1725 01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:57,920 Speaker 1: for the consumer. But we're not like there are a 1726 01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:00,320 Speaker 1: lot of brands and people who are built than their 1727 01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:04,280 Speaker 1: their profiles. But our priority is is owned and operated. 1728 01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:08,599 Speaker 1: Who has the mic? Now? Yeah, right here, I try 1729 01:43:08,920 --> 01:43:12,560 Speaker 1: just going back to the future of streaming, UM, we 1730 01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:17,120 Speaker 1: see pricing differentiation for hires players like COB's entitle UM. 1731 01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:19,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that's sustainable? And my second question is, 1732 01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:24,760 Speaker 1: UM there's new UM streaming platforms like prime Phonic, which 1733 01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:27,240 Speaker 1: are focused on classical music. Do you think the future 1734 01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:30,040 Speaker 1: will be sort of based on differentiation by genre or 1735 01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:33,360 Speaker 1: do you think the hardware ecosystem will dominate. You know, 1736 01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:36,519 Speaker 1: I think, you know, just in my my opinion, I 1737 01:43:36,640 --> 01:43:41,120 Speaker 1: think UM, having a niche UM a knee service is 1738 01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:44,360 Speaker 1: deaf is difficult, right, you know, because when you can 1739 01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:49,920 Speaker 1: get and and everything essentially that you pretty much want 1740 01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:53,400 Speaker 1: to listen to and in one place, UM, you gotta 1741 01:43:53,439 --> 01:43:57,400 Speaker 1: have a compelling value proposition to drive somebody to pay 1742 01:43:57,479 --> 01:44:01,360 Speaker 1: specifically for that niche service and in UM this sort 1743 01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:04,360 Speaker 1: of financial models to operate as a business around that, 1744 01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:07,080 Speaker 1: and my I just think would be and it would 1745 01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:10,600 Speaker 1: be challenging, you know, especially as you're competing against you know, 1746 01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:13,280 Speaker 1: some some of the some of the larger players UM 1747 01:44:13,320 --> 01:44:18,120 Speaker 1: in terms of you know, fidelity you know you got 1748 01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:21,639 Speaker 1: I'm one of the the niche consumers that cares about 1749 01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, sound and and for me, its specifically for 1750 01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:29,120 Speaker 1: jazz music, Like when I listen to jazz and UM, 1751 01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, I got high fidelity speakers. I want to 1752 01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:34,880 Speaker 1: listen to it and and and and high fidelity UM. 1753 01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,160 Speaker 1: But for a lot of the other records, is like 1754 01:44:40,040 --> 01:44:42,200 Speaker 1: you don't need to listen to it in high fidelity, right, 1755 01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:45,000 Speaker 1: but you got to find a big enough audience that's 1756 01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:49,080 Speaker 1: willing to pay for it. Um, I'd love to get 1757 01:44:49,120 --> 01:44:52,120 Speaker 1: to a place where everybody cares about how how records 1758 01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, were intended to sound. But you know, I 1759 01:44:55,240 --> 01:44:58,640 Speaker 1: don't know if the general population, uh if that if 1760 01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:02,479 Speaker 1: that's something that they really genuinely care about, and I 1761 01:45:02,560 --> 01:45:09,840 Speaker 1: don't think we've been able to, um how like, so 1762 01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:14,640 Speaker 1: when the jump from cassette to c D was so 1763 01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:19,120 Speaker 1: exponential in terms of sound, and the jump from VHS too, 1764 01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, DVD was so was was exponential in terms 1765 01:45:23,439 --> 01:45:27,120 Speaker 1: of you know, a visual and sound, we haven't been 1766 01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:30,759 Speaker 1: able to kind of give any sort of exponential jump 1767 01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,400 Speaker 1: yet to make people want to leap from from this 1768 01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:49,559 Speaker 1: to that. Ye just talking about Yeah, I don't okay, Jamie, Jamie, 1769 01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:55,760 Speaker 1: you have a question. I probably good to see. Yeah, Um, 1770 01:45:56,160 --> 01:45:57,760 Speaker 1: I have two questions and I want to I'll cut 1771 01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:01,280 Speaker 1: it down to one. And so I'm Lars Maria used 1772 01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:03,240 Speaker 1: to be at Pandora. The question that I have that 1773 01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:05,799 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's asked you, what is the lowest 1774 01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:09,519 Speaker 1: hanging fruit that you think people are not picking off 1775 01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:11,880 Speaker 1: of Spotify right now? Used to drive me crazy that 1776 01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:14,800 Speaker 1: there were things I couldn't explain or I could explain, 1777 01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:16,680 Speaker 1: and people just wouldn't do it, Like, what are they 1778 01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:18,439 Speaker 1: not doing? I mean, I think going back to what 1779 01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:20,960 Speaker 1: market you say, people, and it's just I'm talking about 1780 01:46:21,120 --> 01:46:24,080 Speaker 1: the the industry, you know. Um, you know, Mark was 1781 01:46:24,120 --> 01:46:25,720 Speaker 1: talking about how are you selling tickets? And you're like, 1782 01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:28,200 Speaker 1: we just sold a hundred million dollars worth of tickets? 1783 01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:31,200 Speaker 1: Like what what across the board is the thing that 1784 01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:34,840 Speaker 1: people should be thinking about that they're not. I don't know, 1785 01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:38,840 Speaker 1: you know, um, I think I don't know if I 1786 01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:41,240 Speaker 1: have an answer for the low hanging fruit, but I 1787 01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:46,280 Speaker 1: do think the industry one of the biggest problems that 1788 01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:51,960 Speaker 1: I see is this sort of people haven't been able 1789 01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:56,320 Speaker 1: to differentiate. People haven't been able to fully move into 1790 01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:59,360 Speaker 1: a new model yet because people still think we're a 1791 01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:04,040 Speaker 1: retail were not a retailer. Um, people still think we're 1792 01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:07,599 Speaker 1: like radio, where we're not radio like. So even down 1793 01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:11,000 Speaker 1: to the point where the people still haven't figured out 1794 01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:13,800 Speaker 1: who at the company should really interface with us yet. 1795 01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:16,679 Speaker 1: Should it be a promo guy? Is that the sales team? 1796 01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:19,479 Speaker 1: Is it marketing? Like? So I think it's kind of 1797 01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:26,120 Speaker 1: understanding that this is a totally new system. The way 1798 01:47:26,200 --> 01:47:29,200 Speaker 1: the old system work doesn't work with with with with this, 1799 01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:32,760 Speaker 1: with this new system, and then so so and even 1800 01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:36,000 Speaker 1: down to going back to I get so many calls 1801 01:47:36,120 --> 01:47:39,640 Speaker 1: from people that say, I'm at a million streams and 1802 01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:42,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, a million streams is nothing, Like it's not 1803 01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:45,760 Speaker 1: there yet. You gotta get there, like it's um but 1804 01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:48,879 Speaker 1: because people in the record business think a million records 1805 01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:53,360 Speaker 1: your platinum, a million streams isn't platinum, you know. So 1806 01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:56,960 Speaker 1: it's like, so it's this sort of uh chasm you 1807 01:47:57,040 --> 01:47:59,040 Speaker 1: got that that hasn't been crossed yet. So if I 1808 01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:01,760 Speaker 1: can steal a quick follow up on that, cycles, how 1809 01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:06,479 Speaker 1: do you do you have insight to tell everybody about cycles? 1810 01:48:06,520 --> 01:48:09,320 Speaker 1: And how I mean cycles are different now in a stream? 1811 01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:14,240 Speaker 1: What types of cycles? Song cycles? Uh, career cycles, album cycles, 1812 01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:17,160 Speaker 1: all of that. Who's doing it? Right? So? So the 1813 01:48:17,240 --> 01:48:20,080 Speaker 1: way so I look at it as perpetual cycles, right, 1814 01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:22,880 Speaker 1: So it's not it's no more on on on and off. 1815 01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:27,400 Speaker 1: And you know what what we see now is you 1816 01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:31,720 Speaker 1: know you look at um you know two good examples 1817 01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:35,599 Speaker 1: of like a Bruno Mars or at Sharon where their 1818 01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:40,560 Speaker 1: former albums just continue to kind of perform well. And 1819 01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:47,080 Speaker 1: chain Smokers there, you know, I think Adam and and 1820 01:48:47,280 --> 01:48:50,320 Speaker 1: and those guys are are really brilliant in terms of 1821 01:48:50,680 --> 01:48:53,040 Speaker 1: how they they're They're just innovative in their approach to 1822 01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:56,759 Speaker 1: to release the music, the hip hop game in general. 1823 01:48:57,320 --> 01:49:00,720 Speaker 1: I would just say, you know, they win loose. You know, 1824 01:49:00,840 --> 01:49:04,479 Speaker 1: they went gold star in terms of being able to um, 1825 01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:09,200 Speaker 1: to cater to new conc to the way consumers consume 1826 01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:14,080 Speaker 1: and um. And it's just it bugs me out because 1827 01:49:14,120 --> 01:49:18,560 Speaker 1: the record business we used to be so forward and 1828 01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:26,120 Speaker 1: how like when we we turned Tuesdays into events right 1829 01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:30,200 Speaker 1: where it was, you know, when we put out albums, 1830 01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:33,880 Speaker 1: the way we set up set up albums, film studios 1831 01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:36,400 Speaker 1: were envied away. You know that that that we did it, 1832 01:49:37,040 --> 01:49:43,840 Speaker 1: and but yet Netflix is kicking our ass and innovation 1833 01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:50,840 Speaker 1: of releases. You know, so when you released you know, 1834 01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:54,120 Speaker 1: I was telling I was at one of the record 1835 01:49:54,200 --> 01:49:57,040 Speaker 1: labels and they were talking about all of their new 1836 01:49:57,160 --> 01:50:00,280 Speaker 1: acts that broke on you know, because I I was 1837 01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:04,719 Speaker 1: complaining about artists development, and I'm like, you gotta build stars, 1838 01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:08,000 Speaker 1: Like just because they're getting streams don't mean that their stars. 1839 01:50:08,439 --> 01:50:10,720 Speaker 1: And they're telling me what we broke this act this year, 1840 01:50:10,840 --> 01:50:12,720 Speaker 1: this act, this year, this act this year, and this 1841 01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:16,280 Speaker 1: act this year. I said I'll tell you what if 1842 01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:20,800 Speaker 1: you took those four artists right now and they got 1843 01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:22,960 Speaker 1: out of their car in front of the school that's 1844 01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:26,559 Speaker 1: across the street, and you took the kids from Stranger 1845 01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:30,519 Speaker 1: Things and they got out of the car, every kid's 1846 01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:34,320 Speaker 1: gonna run to the kids from Stranger Things. Like that's 1847 01:50:34,479 --> 01:50:37,799 Speaker 1: this year's one direction. We don't have a one direction 1848 01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:41,120 Speaker 1: right now. That's one direction right now. You look at 1849 01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:47,519 Speaker 1: how we're still releasing single single, single album. You're releasing 1850 01:50:47,680 --> 01:50:51,400 Speaker 1: three singles before album, and Netflix is dropping the whole 1851 01:50:51,560 --> 01:50:55,800 Speaker 1: season on you day day one because everybody wants it there. 1852 01:50:56,080 --> 01:50:58,040 Speaker 1: And I asked the record I asked the record label, 1853 01:50:58,040 --> 01:50:59,439 Speaker 1: I said, why are you still doing it like that? 1854 01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:03,080 Speaker 1: But as a radio you want to build up a 1855 01:51:03,160 --> 01:51:07,639 Speaker 1: certain audience first, because the first week, first week means zero, 1856 01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:12,000 Speaker 1: first week means nothing anymore. So, so it's kind of 1857 01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:14,439 Speaker 1: just getting people to cross over to the new world. 1858 01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:18,519 Speaker 1: And and and I'm seeing some younger labels and some 1859 01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:22,599 Speaker 1: younger artists right now, and that has no historical baggage. 1860 01:51:23,080 --> 01:51:26,200 Speaker 1: That are, you know, plowing their way into into into 1861 01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:31,439 Speaker 1: the new world very quickly. Single album. If you're a 1862 01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:34,200 Speaker 1: new artist, should people even bother to make albums or 1863 01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:36,680 Speaker 1: continue to put out a continuous dreament product. If if 1864 01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:39,160 Speaker 1: you can make a great album, make an album. The 1865 01:51:39,280 --> 01:51:43,400 Speaker 1: problem is, you know, making a great album. That's a 1866 01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:49,240 Speaker 1: big challenge. Jamie, you said something, uh that really kind 1867 01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:54,519 Speaker 1: of perked my ears up a bit. Um. You said 1868 01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:57,960 Speaker 1: that radio is in trouble, and I absolutely agree. And 1869 01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:02,160 Speaker 1: I think that you're that Spotify as integration into automobiles 1870 01:52:02,479 --> 01:52:05,040 Speaker 1: is going to even put another nail in that coffin. 1871 01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:08,519 Speaker 1: But we aren't there yet. We aren't. Radio is not 1872 01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:12,760 Speaker 1: dead yet. So you had said something that you did 1873 01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:18,200 Speaker 1: with Gaga where it was um social media and YouTube 1874 01:52:18,439 --> 01:52:20,400 Speaker 1: and getting the music out there so that by the 1875 01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:23,759 Speaker 1: time it went to radio and they were doing their testing, 1876 01:52:24,320 --> 01:52:27,040 Speaker 1: that everybody was already familiar with it, so it tested 1877 01:52:27,080 --> 01:52:32,000 Speaker 1: really well. Later you said that labels kind of have 1878 01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:35,599 Speaker 1: to pick. Are you going to go the radio route 1879 01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:37,719 Speaker 1: where you put a half million dollars behind a track 1880 01:52:38,479 --> 01:52:42,560 Speaker 1: or are you going to go the Spotify route? And like, 1881 01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:46,679 Speaker 1: I does a label really have to choose or should 1882 01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:48,760 Speaker 1: they just be working it back? So let me let 1883 01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:51,160 Speaker 1: me clarify it. So so I don't think you have 1884 01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:54,080 Speaker 1: to choose between going to Spotify or going to radio. 1885 01:52:55,080 --> 01:52:58,000 Speaker 1: Um So, I was talking specifically around if you have 1886 01:52:58,080 --> 01:53:04,440 Speaker 1: a single and you start the single off on Spotify, 1887 01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:08,519 Speaker 1: by the time you build up that big enough story 1888 01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:11,640 Speaker 1: for radio, chances are it is gonna be Oh, that 1889 01:53:11,800 --> 01:53:15,720 Speaker 1: single is gonna be over on our platform. Yes, so so, 1890 01:53:15,880 --> 01:53:19,240 Speaker 1: but what we get a lot is complaints that we're 1891 01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:22,360 Speaker 1: not hanging in there long enough on the single because 1892 01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:25,880 Speaker 1: it's not building, it's not uh linking in uh, it's 1893 01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:29,800 Speaker 1: not fused with their radio stories essentially, And I think 1894 01:53:29,880 --> 01:53:33,559 Speaker 1: for us it's not our that that's just not our 1895 01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:38,200 Speaker 1: problem because because only we gotta we gotta do. We 1896 01:53:38,439 --> 01:53:41,720 Speaker 1: have to build the great experience for the consumer. That's 1897 01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:43,880 Speaker 1: the like, that's our number one thing. It has to 1898 01:53:43,960 --> 01:53:47,000 Speaker 1: be a great experience for the consumer. And um so, 1899 01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:49,599 Speaker 1: so that's where that's the sort of catch twenty two 1900 01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:53,519 Speaker 1: that we're finding, you know, some some of the labels 1901 01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:56,400 Speaker 1: in Okay, this gentleman, this is the last question for now, 1902 01:53:57,960 --> 01:54:02,120 Speaker 1: my Troy um bit of a tech nerd question, because 1903 01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:05,800 Speaker 1: you were saying you're building out a marketplace and then 1904 01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:10,560 Speaker 1: Daniel living ten years ahead of us, how much is 1905 01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:18,960 Speaker 1: which extent is AI and blockchain part of the discussion. UM. 1906 01:54:19,280 --> 01:54:22,360 Speaker 1: You know, UM, some I can comment on, some I 1907 01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:25,639 Speaker 1: can't comment on. UM. I think it's just AI in general. 1908 01:54:26,640 --> 01:54:32,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's the future, you know. I think, you know, 1909 01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:34,920 Speaker 1: machine learning as part of what we already do in 1910 01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:37,680 Speaker 1: terms off you look at Discover weekly, Discover weekly as 1911 01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:43,800 Speaker 1: machine learning and UM and I think the more data 1912 01:54:43,880 --> 01:54:46,640 Speaker 1: that you get, the better than machines get. Right. So 1913 01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:50,360 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna play a huge role. And I 1914 01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:52,840 Speaker 1: don't think it necessarily has as much to do with 1915 01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:56,400 Speaker 1: marketplace as much as it has to do with the 1916 01:54:56,520 --> 01:54:59,840 Speaker 1: personalization that that that that we're talking about, and just 1917 01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:02,600 Speaker 1: being able to make the experience better for you when 1918 01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:05,080 Speaker 1: you when you come up come on the platform. But 1919 01:55:05,200 --> 01:55:07,880 Speaker 1: I just don't think, you know, when we kind of 1920 01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:10,080 Speaker 1: got a sense of where machine learning is gonna gonna 1921 01:55:10,160 --> 01:55:13,920 Speaker 1: take us, the marketplace was more directed towards the block chain. 1922 01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:17,920 Speaker 1: I can't calm it. Thank you, But you've been very 1923 01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:20,560 Speaker 1: open and honest. We've put you through the rigger for 1924 01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:30,520 Speaker 1: two hours. And by the way, I love Bob and 1925 01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:34,040 Speaker 1: Aga had these conversations. I got so many questions in 1926 01:55:34,120 --> 01:55:36,400 Speaker 1: my head, and I mean, we're off the audience. But 1927 01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:38,960 Speaker 1: when I say on some level, we only scratched the surface. 1928 01:55:39,240 --> 01:55:41,720 Speaker 1: That's supposed to Howard Stern saying you said everything, You've 1929 01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:45,240 Speaker 1: only said a little bit. But it's been so wonderful 1930 01:55:45,280 --> 01:55:48,800 Speaker 1: that you've come here and uh endured this for two hours. Troy, 1931 01:55:48,880 --> 01:56:01,960 Speaker 1: thanks again, thank you, thank you. Hey. This week we 1932 01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:05,480 Speaker 1: have a very special episode my interview with Troy Carter 1933 01:56:05,880 --> 01:56:10,959 Speaker 1: at the Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara, California. Yes. Today, 1934 01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:15,480 Speaker 1: Troy is director of Creative Services that Spotify really spearheading 1935 01:56:15,640 --> 01:56:19,080 Speaker 1: change in the music business. But before that he was 1936 01:56:19,160 --> 01:56:23,640 Speaker 1: a manager. He managed Lady Gaga, Broke Lady Gaga what 1937 01:56:23,880 --> 01:56:27,280 Speaker 1: John legend Back has done so many things with acts. 1938 01:56:27,560 --> 01:56:30,880 Speaker 1: You're gonna hear about his ups and his downs. Troy 1939 01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:42,000 Speaker 1: is completely honest. I know you'll love this. So, Troy, 1940 01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:46,520 Speaker 1: how'd you get into this crazy business? I started off 1941 01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:50,760 Speaker 1: just as a kid in West Philly. Uh grew up 1942 01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:55,040 Speaker 1: loving hip hop music and hip hop culture. Um. I 1943 01:56:55,160 --> 01:56:58,320 Speaker 1: wanted to be a rapper. I wanted to write graffiti. 1944 01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:01,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a breakdancer. So anything that was 1945 01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:04,880 Speaker 1: immersive and hip hop culture, you know, I just wanted 1946 01:57:04,920 --> 01:57:07,440 Speaker 1: to be around it. So you're not a woman, I 1947 01:57:07,480 --> 01:57:10,400 Speaker 1: can ask this question, how old are you today? Forty five? 1948 01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:16,040 Speaker 1: So when you get into it, MTV ruled, okay, but 1949 01:57:16,160 --> 01:57:19,600 Speaker 1: Philadelphia always had a heavy soul culture. So how did 1950 01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:22,440 Speaker 1: you first get infected by music? We didn't we didn't 1951 01:57:22,480 --> 01:57:27,360 Speaker 1: have cable. We only had the five channels and um 1952 01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:32,920 Speaker 1: and we have Friday Night videos and the USA Networkers 1953 01:57:33,080 --> 01:57:36,280 Speaker 1: on NBC. It was I forget which network it was. 1954 01:57:36,520 --> 01:57:39,600 Speaker 1: It might have been NBC. David Benjamin ran that I remember, 1955 01:57:39,800 --> 01:57:42,000 Speaker 1: but it was like, um, you know, it would come 1956 01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:45,760 Speaker 1: on late at night, and it was before music was segregated, 1957 01:57:46,200 --> 01:57:49,760 Speaker 1: so you would watch Rundy m C. You would watch Blondie, 1958 01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:53,880 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Prince, you know, so it was all types 1959 01:57:53,960 --> 01:57:56,240 Speaker 1: of music there. So it kind of exposed me to 1960 01:57:56,920 --> 01:57:59,560 Speaker 1: pop music, rock music. But and you know, and and 1961 01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:02,600 Speaker 1: like I said, and I love hip hop. So but 1962 01:58:02,720 --> 01:58:04,760 Speaker 1: it made me well round it from from a music 1963 01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:06,800 Speaker 1: was there music in your house growing up? It's a 1964 01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:09,640 Speaker 1: ton of music in my house growing up. So um. 1965 01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:12,200 Speaker 1: It was a station in Philly called w d A 1966 01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:15,720 Speaker 1: S and UM, which it was a local station. A 1967 01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:18,760 Speaker 1: guy named butter Ball ran the station and um, but 1968 01:58:18,880 --> 01:58:22,080 Speaker 1: it was a lot of the Philly International records, Um 1969 01:58:22,440 --> 01:58:26,360 Speaker 1: a lot, everything from Uh, Marvin Gaye was big in 1970 01:58:26,440 --> 01:58:30,240 Speaker 1: our house. Earth Wind and Fire was big. Um she 1971 01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:33,880 Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder. So I grew up on a lot of souls. 1972 01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:36,600 Speaker 1: Did you play an instrument growing up? Nope, didn't play 1973 01:58:36,600 --> 01:58:39,400 Speaker 1: an didn't play an instrument. Okay, so you're listening to 1974 01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:43,000 Speaker 1: music and you're watching Friday Night videos. At what point 1975 01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:45,360 Speaker 1: do you say I can do that? You know what? 1976 01:58:45,520 --> 01:58:47,960 Speaker 1: My my, my brother and my cousin they used to 1977 01:58:48,200 --> 01:58:51,840 Speaker 1: DJ and UM. So I tried DJ and and I 1978 01:58:51,960 --> 01:58:54,840 Speaker 1: was terrible. And then I said, um, well, maybe you 1979 01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:57,120 Speaker 1: know I'm gonna try to be a rapper. So I 1980 01:58:57,360 --> 01:59:00,400 Speaker 1: so I started rapping. And in ninth grade, me and 1981 01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:03,640 Speaker 1: my best friend had this idea. We met in English 1982 01:59:03,720 --> 01:59:05,920 Speaker 1: class and we said, you know, if if we ever 1983 01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:08,880 Speaker 1: meet Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince, they're gonna give us 1984 01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:11,720 Speaker 1: a record deal. So we used to go and and 1985 01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:14,800 Speaker 1: try to hang out at Jazzy Jeff's studio, go down 1986 01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:18,520 Speaker 1: there almost every single day. Um, Jeff never would let 1987 01:59:18,600 --> 01:59:21,080 Speaker 1: us into the studio. How many other people are hanging 1988 01:59:21,120 --> 01:59:22,600 Speaker 1: out other than the two of you? It just it 1989 01:59:22,720 --> 01:59:24,520 Speaker 1: was three. It was three of us. The group was 1990 01:59:24,560 --> 01:59:27,960 Speaker 1: called too too many, and um we called ourselves to 1991 01:59:28,120 --> 01:59:30,760 Speaker 1: too many because we only used to have enough money 1992 01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:35,520 Speaker 1: for one of us. So so it was three of 1993 01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:36,920 Speaker 1: us that used to hang out in front of it. 1994 01:59:36,920 --> 01:59:39,320 Speaker 1: But when you were hanging out, uh where there are 1995 01:59:39,360 --> 01:59:41,800 Speaker 1: also a lot of other people want to be hanging 1996 01:59:41,840 --> 01:59:44,280 Speaker 1: out at the studio. No, so they were all inside 1997 01:59:44,360 --> 01:59:46,320 Speaker 1: the studio, So we were trying to get in, and 1998 01:59:46,440 --> 01:59:49,680 Speaker 1: so we would only want to bees and um so so, 1999 01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:52,880 Speaker 1: and we sincerely had this idea like we were that 2000 01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:56,200 Speaker 1: naive that we were gonna meet Jazzy Jeff and Fresh 2001 01:59:56,240 --> 01:59:58,040 Speaker 1: Prince and they were going to give us a record deal. 2002 01:59:58,360 --> 02:00:00,360 Speaker 1: And my best friend he used to always he say, 2003 02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:04,520 Speaker 1: thoughts become things. You gotta think positive, you gotta think positive. 2004 02:00:04,880 --> 02:00:06,800 Speaker 1: And one day they let us in and we auditioned 2005 02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:09,680 Speaker 1: for him, and what happened. They gave us a record 2006 02:00:09,760 --> 02:00:15,840 Speaker 1: deal with a lot of experience under your belt. This 2007 02:00:16,000 --> 02:00:18,920 Speaker 1: is not the way the story usually goes. Do you 2008 02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:21,600 Speaker 1: think you were deserving of a record deal? Yes? But 2009 02:00:21,800 --> 02:00:24,280 Speaker 1: you know what what we found out though that we sucked, 2010 02:00:24,480 --> 02:00:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, so I think you know will what will 2011 02:00:27,480 --> 02:00:32,879 Speaker 1: we met will uh DJ Jazzy Jeff and his manager 2012 02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:35,200 Speaker 1: James Lasseter. It was like a whole crew of guys 2013 02:00:35,240 --> 02:00:37,160 Speaker 1: hanging out in the studio and we popped in our 2014 02:00:37,240 --> 02:00:40,520 Speaker 1: demo and you know, um and Will said, how are 2015 02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:42,280 Speaker 1: you guys getting home? And we said we don't know. 2016 02:00:42,920 --> 02:00:44,600 Speaker 1: So he said, okay, I'll give you guys a ride 2017 02:00:44,680 --> 02:00:46,600 Speaker 1: home and he drove drove us home that night, and 2018 02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:49,040 Speaker 1: he told our families, you know, dropped us off, and 2019 02:00:49,120 --> 02:00:51,640 Speaker 1: he said, you know, I got them and um, but 2020 02:00:52,280 --> 02:00:55,840 Speaker 1: we I think more than anything else, more than even 2021 02:00:55,880 --> 02:00:59,200 Speaker 1: the music. He respected our hustle and you know, we 2022 02:00:59,320 --> 02:01:01,800 Speaker 1: were silly kids and you know, so I think he 2023 02:01:02,480 --> 02:01:05,000 Speaker 1: liked us. So what happened? Maybe you gave you a 2024 02:01:05,080 --> 02:01:07,640 Speaker 1: record deal? Yes, and we signed. We signed the Jive 2025 02:01:07,720 --> 02:01:11,200 Speaker 1: Records through Will's production company, and we put out a 2026 02:01:11,280 --> 02:01:13,400 Speaker 1: record and got dropped. It was like all within, like 2027 02:01:16,400 --> 02:01:18,240 Speaker 1: all within like a year and a half is like 2028 02:01:18,360 --> 02:01:21,640 Speaker 1: the super this kind of whirl and uh, oh my god, 2029 02:01:21,800 --> 02:01:24,320 Speaker 1: our dreams came true to oh my god, this is 2030 02:01:24,360 --> 02:01:26,960 Speaker 1: the biggest disaster. My life is over. Did you get 2031 02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:29,720 Speaker 1: an advance? Did you get any money? Got in advance? 2032 02:01:29,800 --> 02:01:32,520 Speaker 1: I think we we got in advance of about I 2033 02:01:32,600 --> 02:01:36,120 Speaker 1: think it was like thirty five thousand dollars, which might 2034 02:01:36,160 --> 02:01:39,240 Speaker 1: have been thirty five million dollars. And um, you know, 2035 02:01:39,400 --> 02:01:42,000 Speaker 1: because we had never gotten any money like you know before, 2036 02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:45,640 Speaker 1: and um, and we divided it up amongst the three 2037 02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:48,160 Speaker 1: of us. And what did you do with your twelve 2038 02:01:48,280 --> 02:01:52,960 Speaker 1: grand I went straight to the car dealership like every 2039 02:01:53,080 --> 02:01:57,960 Speaker 1: rapper and uh and I bought a used Autie five 2040 02:01:58,080 --> 02:02:00,760 Speaker 1: thousand that was a stick ship if and I had 2041 02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:04,480 Speaker 1: never driven a stick shift before, but I wanted that car. 2042 02:02:04,720 --> 02:02:06,600 Speaker 1: And I think I burned out the clutch by the 2043 02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:10,160 Speaker 1: time I got home. So I burned through the money 2044 02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:13,480 Speaker 1: in the clutch within like weeks, just because you told 2045 02:02:13,480 --> 02:02:14,880 Speaker 1: me the story, and I don't want to forget it. 2046 02:02:15,320 --> 02:02:18,280 Speaker 1: You do tell a story of buying a Lexus use 2047 02:02:18,400 --> 02:02:22,720 Speaker 1: Lexus and getting stopped for driving while black. How long 2048 02:02:22,920 --> 02:02:26,520 Speaker 1: after this was? That? That was? That was after? That was? 2049 02:02:26,920 --> 02:02:31,560 Speaker 1: That was years later? And Um, I started promoting shows 2050 02:02:31,640 --> 02:02:35,040 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, so I would promote these concerts. Um so 2051 02:02:35,200 --> 02:02:38,720 Speaker 1: like Notorious b I, G. Jay Z, Foxy Brown, a 2052 02:02:38,800 --> 02:02:40,680 Speaker 1: bunch of the New Woutang clan, a bunch of the 2053 02:02:40,720 --> 02:02:44,320 Speaker 1: New York rappers, and um and I bought a car 2054 02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,880 Speaker 1: off of Foxy Brown's manager, a guy named Don Poo, 2055 02:02:48,680 --> 02:02:51,080 Speaker 1: and um, and you know I drove the car back 2056 02:02:51,160 --> 02:02:54,320 Speaker 1: to Philly and that next week, no, with no exaggeration, 2057 02:02:54,880 --> 02:02:57,600 Speaker 1: within one week, I had gotten pulled over by the 2058 02:02:57,680 --> 02:03:02,080 Speaker 1: police six times within one week. But you know it 2059 02:03:02,240 --> 02:03:04,920 Speaker 1: was one time. You know, it was a Saturday afternoon 2060 02:03:05,360 --> 02:03:08,680 Speaker 1: and um, I had bags like luggage and the trunk 2061 02:03:09,280 --> 02:03:11,600 Speaker 1: and I pull up and up and up at Derby 2062 02:03:11,680 --> 02:03:14,720 Speaker 1: and I get pulled over by the police and they 2063 02:03:14,800 --> 02:03:16,720 Speaker 1: make me get out of the car sit on the 2064 02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:19,280 Speaker 1: side of the curb while they throw all of my 2065 02:03:19,400 --> 02:03:21,840 Speaker 1: stuff out on the street. And so where I was 2066 02:03:21,880 --> 02:03:24,760 Speaker 1: at it was like a shopping district. So it's a 2067 02:03:24,840 --> 02:03:29,400 Speaker 1: Saturday afternoon in front of the movie theater, hundreds of people. 2068 02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:31,520 Speaker 1: You know, it was it was the most it was 2069 02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:34,280 Speaker 1: probably one of the most belittling things. And then once 2070 02:03:34,360 --> 02:03:37,000 Speaker 1: everything checked out, you know, the cops said, you know, 2071 02:03:37,240 --> 02:03:39,160 Speaker 1: put your ship back in the car, and just you know, 2072 02:03:39,280 --> 02:03:42,600 Speaker 1: they they pull off and I'm left putting my underwear 2073 02:03:42,800 --> 02:03:45,640 Speaker 1: and everything else back into the you know, into into 2074 02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:49,280 Speaker 1: the into into my car. So you know, it's so 2075 02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:52,920 Speaker 1: you have an experience like that, where does that many 2076 02:03:53,040 --> 02:03:56,200 Speaker 1: experiences like And that's where I was going. But that 2077 02:03:56,400 --> 02:03:58,240 Speaker 1: was a peak experience before I was gonna ask you 2078 02:03:58,280 --> 02:04:00,960 Speaker 1: about previous growing up. How does that what where does 2079 02:04:01,000 --> 02:04:04,800 Speaker 1: that leave your viewpoint in terms of race relations? Um, 2080 02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:08,800 Speaker 1: you know it's complicated, right because I think you know, 2081 02:04:09,040 --> 02:04:13,760 Speaker 1: I think you got so it was more police relations 2082 02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:16,840 Speaker 1: than race relations where where where I grew up, because 2083 02:04:16,880 --> 02:04:20,120 Speaker 1: it was only black people where where I grew up, 2084 02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:23,760 Speaker 1: So it wasn't really any real racial issues. But there 2085 02:04:23,800 --> 02:04:27,120 Speaker 1: were the cops black or white both, so blue is 2086 02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:31,920 Speaker 1: what they were, right and um and and so we 2087 02:04:32,080 --> 02:04:37,800 Speaker 1: were harassed and and and profiled and we didn't have 2088 02:04:37,960 --> 02:04:41,160 Speaker 1: It wasn't a thing where when things happened in your 2089 02:04:41,160 --> 02:04:44,840 Speaker 1: neighborhood you called the police, you know. So, um and 2090 02:04:44,920 --> 02:04:47,680 Speaker 1: that and that was the that was the relationship and 2091 02:04:47,920 --> 02:04:52,800 Speaker 1: um so So I didn't really learn about race relations 2092 02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:55,720 Speaker 1: until I really started traveling to a lot of places, 2093 02:04:56,120 --> 02:04:59,560 Speaker 1: you know, through throughout throughout the country. And um and 2094 02:04:59,640 --> 02:05:04,040 Speaker 1: then that's when I really started, you know, seeing Philly 2095 02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:07,800 Speaker 1: is very segregated, but it was very segregated, gated by 2096 02:05:07,840 --> 02:05:10,839 Speaker 1: the way. So Italians lived in a certain area, Blacks 2097 02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:12,960 Speaker 1: lived in a certain area. Of Puerto Ricans lived in 2098 02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:16,400 Speaker 1: a certain area Jews lived in a certain area and 2099 02:05:16,480 --> 02:05:20,440 Speaker 1: it wasn't a thing where it was any real I 2100 02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:25,600 Speaker 1: never felt that sort of tension because everybody stayed in 2101 02:05:25,680 --> 02:05:28,880 Speaker 1: their own pockets for the most part, almost kind of 2102 02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:31,960 Speaker 1: like l a Alas racially segregated too. But when you 2103 02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:36,640 Speaker 1: were making the deal with DJ Jazzy Jeff and Will Smith, 2104 02:05:37,200 --> 02:05:39,760 Speaker 1: are you still in high school? Yeah? I dropped out 2105 02:05:39,800 --> 02:05:42,720 Speaker 1: of high school and then um, I dropped out in 2106 02:05:42,760 --> 02:05:47,520 Speaker 1: eleventh grade and my mom she put me in a 2107 02:05:47,640 --> 02:05:52,640 Speaker 1: program called job Corps, which is like jail meets college 2108 02:05:52,920 --> 02:05:57,320 Speaker 1: and um and it's and it was Import Deposit Maryland. 2109 02:05:57,800 --> 02:05:59,840 Speaker 1: So basically she said, if you want to do this 2110 02:06:00,120 --> 02:06:02,680 Speaker 1: music thing, you better come home with a piece of paper. 2111 02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:05,920 Speaker 1: And you know, because I just wanted to pursue music. 2112 02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:09,000 Speaker 1: And at eleventh grade, I quit school. Just stopping there 2113 02:06:09,000 --> 02:06:11,120 Speaker 1: for a second. You quit school because you were that 2114 02:06:11,240 --> 02:06:14,080 Speaker 1: excited about music, or you're also a poor student or 2115 02:06:14,200 --> 02:06:18,560 Speaker 1: an attentive student. It was I just was bored. Like 2116 02:06:18,720 --> 02:06:21,120 Speaker 1: I would I would go to school, check in with 2117 02:06:21,280 --> 02:06:23,680 Speaker 1: my advisor, hang out with my friends, and then we 2118 02:06:24,040 --> 02:06:27,400 Speaker 1: would go on these adventures, you know, sometimes like for 2119 02:06:27,560 --> 02:06:30,920 Speaker 1: me is crazy. I would end up I would end 2120 02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:34,680 Speaker 1: up at a library some days and just studying subjects 2121 02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:37,480 Speaker 1: that I wanted to study. We would have or we 2122 02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:40,400 Speaker 1: would have hooky parties, you know, until my mom got 2123 02:06:40,480 --> 02:06:42,520 Speaker 1: home from work and then we would clear the house 2124 02:06:42,600 --> 02:06:46,080 Speaker 1: out and um, but we every day was this sort 2125 02:06:46,120 --> 02:06:52,000 Speaker 1: of adventure. But school, I just I was curious about learning, 2126 02:06:52,120 --> 02:06:54,000 Speaker 1: but not what they would teach me in school. So 2127 02:06:54,040 --> 02:06:56,480 Speaker 1: how long did the job Corps program last? I stayed 2128 02:06:56,480 --> 02:06:59,720 Speaker 1: in job Corps for a little. I got my I 2129 02:06:59,800 --> 02:07:02,200 Speaker 1: got my g D and record time. It was like 2130 02:07:02,320 --> 02:07:04,160 Speaker 1: I was trying to get out of this place as 2131 02:07:04,320 --> 02:07:06,560 Speaker 1: fast as you could. How fast did you get the 2132 02:07:07,000 --> 02:07:10,960 Speaker 1: probably I think a little under a year maybe, And 2133 02:07:11,040 --> 02:07:14,160 Speaker 1: it was like, because it's the worst. This is where 2134 02:07:14,240 --> 02:07:20,120 Speaker 1: the courts appoint juvenile delinquents, so Virginia, New York, d C. 2135 02:07:20,960 --> 02:07:23,120 Speaker 1: You know, so they just put you all in one 2136 02:07:23,200 --> 02:07:26,320 Speaker 1: place essentially, and um, and you want to get out 2137 02:07:26,360 --> 02:07:29,840 Speaker 1: as fast as you can. But isn't that the place 2138 02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:32,040 Speaker 1: that would tend you know? Their theory on jail is 2139 02:07:32,360 --> 02:07:34,320 Speaker 1: you got to jail, you learn how to become a criminal. 2140 02:07:34,760 --> 02:07:36,600 Speaker 1: When you were in this program, did you learn how 2141 02:07:36,640 --> 02:07:41,440 Speaker 1: to act bad? Yes? So so job Corps it was Um, 2142 02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:46,240 Speaker 1: it was. It was definitely a place where you had 2143 02:07:46,360 --> 02:07:50,360 Speaker 1: it was many sort of many criminal imprise enterprises and 2144 02:07:50,560 --> 02:07:53,920 Speaker 1: clicks built around and you know, you had gang members 2145 02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:57,400 Speaker 1: on campus from different gangs, you know, through throughout you know, 2146 02:07:57,520 --> 02:08:02,920 Speaker 1: the Northeast corridor. And I think because I was always small, 2147 02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, and I didn't get 2148 02:08:06,840 --> 02:08:09,840 Speaker 1: caught up and being just with the guys from Philly. 2149 02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:11,720 Speaker 1: So I would hang out with the New York guys, 2150 02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:17,640 Speaker 1: the Virginia guys and kind of stay away from any 2151 02:08:17,760 --> 02:08:21,320 Speaker 1: sort of the the the warring factions with with within 2152 02:08:21,480 --> 02:08:24,160 Speaker 1: within within job Corps. And so how long were you 2153 02:08:24,200 --> 02:08:26,840 Speaker 1: in job Corps overall? For for almost a year? Okay, 2154 02:08:26,880 --> 02:08:28,240 Speaker 1: So when you got your g D you were out. 2155 02:08:28,400 --> 02:08:30,400 Speaker 1: I was out. And the deal, the record deal was 2156 02:08:30,480 --> 02:08:33,360 Speaker 1: after you. That was after okay. So the act fails, 2157 02:08:34,080 --> 02:08:38,080 Speaker 1: you've blown the money, then what? Um. You know, I 2158 02:08:38,240 --> 02:08:41,280 Speaker 1: remember being at my grandmother's house when I got the 2159 02:08:41,360 --> 02:08:44,120 Speaker 1: call that they were dropping us from from the record label. 2160 02:08:44,760 --> 02:08:48,240 Speaker 1: And um, and I and I was in her in 2161 02:08:48,400 --> 02:08:51,520 Speaker 1: my grandmother's room and because I was on the phone, 2162 02:08:51,640 --> 02:08:55,320 Speaker 1: I got the call and it broke my heart because 2163 02:08:55,520 --> 02:08:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, it was something I felt like we worked 2164 02:08:57,440 --> 02:09:00,600 Speaker 1: really hard for UM. I really we didn't have a 2165 02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:02,760 Speaker 1: plan B of what I was gonna do. I was 2166 02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:05,960 Speaker 1: embarrassed that, you know, we had gotten this far and 2167 02:09:06,160 --> 02:09:10,200 Speaker 1: and and now you know, how do we tell people this? UM? 2168 02:09:10,520 --> 02:09:16,080 Speaker 1: And from there, I just I started. I learned a 2169 02:09:16,160 --> 02:09:21,320 Speaker 1: lot about the business from that. From that experience and 2170 02:09:21,560 --> 02:09:24,800 Speaker 1: UM and I asked James Lasseter, who was Will Smith's manager, 2171 02:09:25,240 --> 02:09:28,240 Speaker 1: UM could I start working with him? And I started 2172 02:09:28,280 --> 02:09:31,040 Speaker 1: working at the recording studio and I was his assistant. 2173 02:09:31,120 --> 02:09:35,160 Speaker 1: Was it pretty much just that fast? It was probably over, 2174 02:09:35,680 --> 02:09:38,080 Speaker 1: if I had to guess, maybe over a six month 2175 02:09:38,280 --> 02:09:42,640 Speaker 1: time period where I sort of transitioned into more of 2176 02:09:42,720 --> 02:09:45,840 Speaker 1: the business, because we ever have a straight job working 2177 02:09:45,880 --> 02:09:48,920 Speaker 1: at the supermarket? Any of that? Did I while I 2178 02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:52,720 Speaker 1: was a kid? No, While in this interim between UH 2179 02:09:52,840 --> 02:09:54,400 Speaker 1: getting dropped from the label and going to work for 2180 02:09:54,440 --> 02:09:58,839 Speaker 1: the management, I had one period where I couldn't find 2181 02:09:59,440 --> 02:10:02,560 Speaker 1: It was as sort of and I don't know if 2182 02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:05,160 Speaker 1: I even if I ever told this this story before, 2183 02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:09,760 Speaker 1: but UM, I remember I couldn't find a job, and 2184 02:10:10,160 --> 02:10:12,920 Speaker 1: I didn't have any money. I had kind of given 2185 02:10:13,040 --> 02:10:17,040 Speaker 1: up on on the on the record business. And at 2186 02:10:17,120 --> 02:10:21,400 Speaker 1: one point I've I've filed for uh for for welfare 2187 02:10:21,640 --> 02:10:26,000 Speaker 1: and I got I had gotten one check, and I 2188 02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:29,280 Speaker 1: remember giving the money from my check to my aunt 2189 02:10:29,360 --> 02:10:32,200 Speaker 1: because my younger cousin had just gotten killed and you know, 2190 02:10:32,280 --> 02:10:34,720 Speaker 1: they were doing this funeral or whatever. And then I'm like, 2191 02:10:34,880 --> 02:10:37,880 Speaker 1: it's just, uh that was it was just like a 2192 02:10:38,040 --> 02:10:40,320 Speaker 1: low point and I'm like, this isn't what I want 2193 02:10:40,360 --> 02:10:43,960 Speaker 1: my my life to be. And um, but as a kid, 2194 02:10:44,040 --> 02:10:46,560 Speaker 1: I worked at McDonald's, I worked at Burger King. I 2195 02:10:46,680 --> 02:10:51,240 Speaker 1: worked at um uh Olga's Kitchen, which was like a restaurant, 2196 02:10:51,480 --> 02:10:54,280 Speaker 1: and so I had all types of ide jobs here 2197 02:10:54,360 --> 02:10:56,360 Speaker 1: here and there. And so you go to work in 2198 02:10:56,400 --> 02:10:59,440 Speaker 1: the recording studio and for your the manager lasseter or 2199 02:10:59,480 --> 02:11:02,960 Speaker 1: what do you do, Um everything car getting car wash, 2200 02:11:03,160 --> 02:11:07,920 Speaker 1: booking sessions for DJ Jazz Jeff, carrying records for Jazz Jeff. Um. 2201 02:11:08,320 --> 02:11:10,960 Speaker 1: But you know, with James, when I was James's assistant, 2202 02:11:11,120 --> 02:11:13,520 Speaker 1: the best part of it was I used to have 2203 02:11:13,640 --> 02:11:16,240 Speaker 1: to run his phone calls, So I had to listen 2204 02:11:16,320 --> 02:11:18,920 Speaker 1: in on every phone call that he did by rolling 2205 02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:21,760 Speaker 1: his calls. So it kind of taught me the sort 2206 02:11:21,800 --> 02:11:25,600 Speaker 1: of vernacular and and sort of cadence how people talk 2207 02:11:25,680 --> 02:11:28,760 Speaker 1: to each other on on the phone, you know. And 2208 02:11:29,200 --> 02:11:32,240 Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest things was, you know, 2209 02:11:32,360 --> 02:11:35,560 Speaker 1: I thought everything was all business with people, but you know, 2210 02:11:35,720 --> 02:11:38,680 Speaker 1: just hearing them talk about people's families and kids and 2211 02:11:38,800 --> 02:11:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, people they would talk for ten fifteen minutes 2212 02:11:41,400 --> 02:11:44,080 Speaker 1: about everything else before they kind of got into this. 2213 02:11:44,480 --> 02:11:46,680 Speaker 1: I know, people, you're so hungry when you get into 2214 02:11:46,680 --> 02:11:49,200 Speaker 1: the business. You have meetings, immediately started the sales pitch. 2215 02:11:49,440 --> 02:11:51,040 Speaker 1: They don't really people want to know who are you, 2216 02:11:51,480 --> 02:11:53,720 Speaker 1: what's going on? You are a reasonable person. So so 2217 02:11:53,880 --> 02:11:56,840 Speaker 1: that that was good for me to learn very early 2218 02:11:57,080 --> 02:11:59,680 Speaker 1: because um and and James and he and I are 2219 02:11:59,680 --> 02:12:03,400 Speaker 1: still really really close to this day. But he he 2220 02:12:03,600 --> 02:12:07,320 Speaker 1: was a guy who we grew up eight blocks away 2221 02:12:07,360 --> 02:12:09,960 Speaker 1: from each other, like and what we didn't know My 2222 02:12:10,120 --> 02:12:12,520 Speaker 1: mom and his mom used to catch the bus together. 2223 02:12:13,080 --> 02:12:16,040 Speaker 1: And you know, he had become Jazzy Jeff and Fresh 2224 02:12:16,120 --> 02:12:18,520 Speaker 1: Prince's manager because he was the only guy in the 2225 02:12:18,520 --> 02:12:21,920 Speaker 1: neighborhood with a car, like you know, because back back 2226 02:12:22,000 --> 02:12:24,880 Speaker 1: then you used to have to put you know, turntables 2227 02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:27,200 Speaker 1: and everything and load the cars up or whatever. He 2228 02:12:27,520 --> 02:12:30,120 Speaker 1: was the only guy with a car, so um so 2229 02:12:30,600 --> 02:12:33,120 Speaker 1: seeing a guy who grew up, you know, right in 2230 02:12:33,160 --> 02:12:37,240 Speaker 1: our neighborhood. It kind of showed me like, okay, if 2231 02:12:37,400 --> 02:12:40,760 Speaker 1: James can do it and talk to like studio executives 2232 02:12:40,800 --> 02:12:43,920 Speaker 1: and record company heads, and it just made it less 2233 02:12:43,960 --> 02:12:46,600 Speaker 1: than a little less in timidity and for me. And 2234 02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:50,160 Speaker 1: so what was your breakthrough from being consistent gopher to 2235 02:12:50,240 --> 02:12:55,080 Speaker 1: the next level? Um, James? Uh So, So like in 2236 02:12:55,200 --> 02:12:58,440 Speaker 1: between that time, you know, I was promoting these shows 2237 02:12:58,720 --> 02:13:01,760 Speaker 1: and Philly and okay, just a little bit slow. You're 2238 02:13:01,800 --> 02:13:05,560 Speaker 1: promoting him yourself or with James. So so James h 2239 02:13:05,720 --> 02:13:07,800 Speaker 1: ended up moving to l A and he was doing 2240 02:13:07,880 --> 02:13:10,720 Speaker 1: he started during Fresh Prince of bel Air. I had 2241 02:13:10,800 --> 02:13:12,480 Speaker 1: come out to l A for a little bit. I 2242 02:13:12,560 --> 02:13:15,680 Speaker 1: went back to Philly and I was from promoting. I 2243 02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:19,000 Speaker 1: started off promoting like clubs, and then I would get 2244 02:13:19,040 --> 02:13:22,000 Speaker 1: acts to perform in the in the clubs and um, 2245 02:13:22,520 --> 02:13:26,160 Speaker 1: and I would collect money from guys in my neighborhood essentially, 2246 02:13:26,320 --> 02:13:30,240 Speaker 1: so it would be guys who have money. I said, 2247 02:13:30,400 --> 02:13:31,880 Speaker 1: you know, at that time, I didn't know it was 2248 02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:35,160 Speaker 1: called money laundering, because guys would give me money like hey, 2249 02:13:35,240 --> 02:13:39,280 Speaker 1: this is great. And so in reality you were money laundering. 2250 02:13:39,320 --> 02:13:41,240 Speaker 1: You were just unaware. I just was unaware. Now, no 2251 02:13:41,360 --> 02:13:45,440 Speaker 1: statue and all those guys are probably in jail. Um. 2252 02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:50,320 Speaker 1: But I would do these do these shows with all 2253 02:13:50,400 --> 02:13:54,360 Speaker 1: of the rappers. And this is before it was Live 2254 02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:57,240 Speaker 1: Nation and all of the big conglomerates. And it was 2255 02:13:57,320 --> 02:14:00,320 Speaker 1: a local guy in Philly named Larry Maggott. We used 2256 02:14:00,320 --> 02:14:03,320 Speaker 1: to promote the concerts in Philly if the Spectrum where 2257 02:14:03,320 --> 02:14:06,520 Speaker 1: the roof blew exactly and um, but they didn't do 2258 02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:09,160 Speaker 1: hip hop because hip hop shows, you know, and then 2259 02:14:09,280 --> 02:14:14,120 Speaker 1: fights and shootings and couldn't get insured. And and I 2260 02:14:14,240 --> 02:14:16,000 Speaker 1: was one of the crazy guys who would do it. 2261 02:14:16,600 --> 02:14:21,800 Speaker 1: And I've started meeting all of these people through these relationships. 2262 02:14:21,840 --> 02:14:25,040 Speaker 1: And I met Puffy through promoteing a notorious b I 2263 02:14:25,320 --> 02:14:28,600 Speaker 1: bit slower. Being a promoter is a license to go 2264 02:14:28,680 --> 02:14:32,240 Speaker 1: out of business, Okay, people usually like even Lior, he 2265 02:14:32,280 --> 02:14:34,840 Speaker 1: had one successful gig and then he lost all that 2266 02:14:34,920 --> 02:14:36,680 Speaker 1: money and more on the next gig. So in your 2267 02:14:36,680 --> 02:14:39,680 Speaker 1: a particular case, every gig I didn't think would be 2268 02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:44,240 Speaker 1: in the black. No, it's you know, you had really 2269 02:14:44,400 --> 02:14:47,680 Speaker 1: really really great nights and you had some really really 2270 02:14:47,760 --> 02:14:50,840 Speaker 1: really bad nights, and you know it was it was 2271 02:14:51,040 --> 02:14:53,160 Speaker 1: I remember It was a rap group on Jive called 2272 02:14:53,200 --> 02:14:56,640 Speaker 1: Foosh Nickens and Um and I used to love their music, 2273 02:14:56,880 --> 02:14:58,520 Speaker 1: and I think I might have been the only person 2274 02:14:58,640 --> 02:15:02,040 Speaker 1: that loved the music because literally, no exaggeration, I had 2275 02:15:02,240 --> 02:15:05,560 Speaker 1: five people show up, but I still paid him a 2276 02:15:05,640 --> 02:15:09,960 Speaker 1: hundred percent of the money built the relationship. It was 2277 02:15:10,200 --> 02:15:15,360 Speaker 1: bad shows where we were down, but every single act 2278 02:15:15,440 --> 02:15:18,640 Speaker 1: got paid. So but wasn't it the money of the 2279 02:15:18,840 --> 02:15:22,120 Speaker 1: so called criminals that was paying them? Yeah, and what 2280 02:15:22,240 --> 02:15:24,600 Speaker 1: of the criminals? What are the criminals say when they 2281 02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:27,160 Speaker 1: were losing money? They were happy to be there. It's 2282 02:15:27,240 --> 02:15:30,720 Speaker 1: like you're hanging out with Biggie, Okay, So it's like 2283 02:15:34,240 --> 02:15:37,640 Speaker 1: hanging your hanging out. So so everybody everybody and and 2284 02:15:38,320 --> 02:15:43,800 Speaker 1: was funny about hip hop as the streets and music. 2285 02:15:44,000 --> 02:15:48,440 Speaker 1: We were all contemporaries, So J and Dame and their 2286 02:15:48,520 --> 02:15:52,400 Speaker 1: whole crew. They were street guys from New York coming 2287 02:15:52,440 --> 02:15:55,960 Speaker 1: to hang out with us Big and Don Poo and 2288 02:15:56,080 --> 02:15:58,640 Speaker 1: Mark Pitts and all of those guys. They were street 2289 02:15:58,680 --> 02:16:02,360 Speaker 1: guys coming out the with us Wu Tang from Staten Island. 2290 02:16:02,480 --> 02:16:06,040 Speaker 1: So it was it was a thing where everybody felt 2291 02:16:07,280 --> 02:16:12,000 Speaker 1: it was. Everybody was really respectful of of of each 2292 02:16:12,040 --> 02:16:15,080 Speaker 1: other in that way because we knew what it took 2293 02:16:15,160 --> 02:16:17,480 Speaker 1: to get there, and and it was almost a thing 2294 02:16:17,640 --> 02:16:21,280 Speaker 1: where you couldn't go out the back door. It's just 2295 02:16:21,440 --> 02:16:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, just from a street code perspective, you can't 2296 02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:27,000 Speaker 1: leave out of the back door. So you got these 2297 02:16:27,080 --> 02:16:29,880 Speaker 1: guys to come, and this is before it was like 2298 02:16:30,120 --> 02:16:33,199 Speaker 1: bank wiring and all of that stuff. So you would 2299 02:16:33,240 --> 02:16:36,320 Speaker 1: pay them that money up front, the first pent up front, 2300 02:16:36,680 --> 02:16:38,760 Speaker 1: but when they showed up, you better have you know, 2301 02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:41,959 Speaker 1: you had to have the rest of that. You're talking 2302 02:16:42,000 --> 02:16:44,520 Speaker 1: about the street you know, cred and the similarity, but 2303 02:16:44,640 --> 02:16:49,320 Speaker 1: getting people from different communities was there also friction. Never 2304 02:16:49,400 --> 02:16:51,600 Speaker 1: mind the money, you know what, most of the most 2305 02:16:51,640 --> 02:16:54,760 Speaker 1: of the friction sort of came from just the nature 2306 02:16:54,800 --> 02:16:58,000 Speaker 1: of the beast of doing these type of shows and 2307 02:16:59,360 --> 02:17:02,720 Speaker 1: the these type of neighborhoods. Right, so it's you got 2308 02:17:02,879 --> 02:17:07,039 Speaker 1: rival factions that are gonna are gonna show up, and um, 2309 02:17:07,760 --> 02:17:10,360 Speaker 1: it could be a bad night when somebody steps on 2310 02:17:10,520 --> 02:17:15,080 Speaker 1: somebody's shoe and they don't say, you know, excuse me 2311 02:17:15,200 --> 02:17:17,200 Speaker 1: or I'm sorry, and that could end up in something 2312 02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:21,360 Speaker 1: or it might have been something that happened weeks before that. 2313 02:17:21,600 --> 02:17:24,480 Speaker 1: You know, people just happened to to to see each other. 2314 02:17:25,080 --> 02:17:30,560 Speaker 1: So you and um, it's par for the course. Okay. 2315 02:17:30,600 --> 02:17:34,240 Speaker 1: So we didn't know, to be honest though, we didn't 2316 02:17:34,280 --> 02:17:37,760 Speaker 1: know any different. So it wasn't you know, sort of 2317 02:17:37,920 --> 02:17:40,440 Speaker 1: and it wasn't strange. It wasn't like it's kind of 2318 02:17:40,520 --> 02:17:43,840 Speaker 1: like that movie Hoop Dreams when they celebrate the kids 2319 02:17:43,879 --> 02:17:46,760 Speaker 1: sixteenth birthday and they said, we're thrilled he just made 2320 02:17:46,800 --> 02:17:50,560 Speaker 1: it to sixty and when when I said, it took 2321 02:17:50,600 --> 02:17:53,520 Speaker 1: to me eighteen and twenty one in my mind with 2322 02:17:53,720 --> 02:17:56,120 Speaker 1: what were the ages in my mind that that I 2323 02:17:56,200 --> 02:17:58,080 Speaker 1: made it to eighteen and that that I made it 2324 02:17:58,160 --> 02:18:01,440 Speaker 1: to one And my closest cousin, he and I grew 2325 02:18:01,520 --> 02:18:04,480 Speaker 1: up together and we were like this. Um, he got 2326 02:18:04,600 --> 02:18:06,800 Speaker 1: killed when he was when he was seventeen years seventeen. 2327 02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:11,040 Speaker 1: What was what precipitated his death? He was out at 2328 02:18:11,120 --> 02:18:15,840 Speaker 1: the Chinese restaurant, Chinese Takeout, getting chicken wings, and somebody 2329 02:18:16,000 --> 02:18:18,840 Speaker 1: decided that they were going to rob the restaurant, drobed 2330 02:18:19,120 --> 02:18:21,440 Speaker 1: the guys who were at the restaurant that night, and 2331 02:18:21,520 --> 02:18:24,240 Speaker 1: I ended up The guy who killed them was a 2332 02:18:24,320 --> 02:18:26,760 Speaker 1: guy who I grew up with, and we went to 2333 02:18:26,800 --> 02:18:29,280 Speaker 1: school with and everything else. He didn't even know it 2334 02:18:29,400 --> 02:18:32,960 Speaker 1: was my cousin. So um and yeah, ended up killing him. 2335 02:18:33,560 --> 02:18:36,120 Speaker 1: Did that guy go to jail? Yeah, they went to jail. Okay, 2336 02:18:36,200 --> 02:18:41,560 Speaker 1: So in your pursuits you meet Puffy and how do 2337 02:18:41,600 --> 02:18:45,840 Speaker 1: you maximize that relationship? Well, Puff, Um, it was. It 2338 02:18:45,959 --> 02:18:48,960 Speaker 1: was a concert that I was throwing with Notorious b 2339 02:18:49,080 --> 02:18:52,000 Speaker 1: I g Um and Wootang and a few other acts 2340 02:18:52,120 --> 02:18:55,240 Speaker 1: on Penn's campus and um, and I got a call 2341 02:18:55,480 --> 02:19:00,520 Speaker 1: that Notorious Notorious b I g was Um, he wasn't 2342 02:19:00,520 --> 02:19:02,440 Speaker 1: gonna make it down in time for the show because 2343 02:19:02,440 --> 02:19:05,119 Speaker 1: he was shooting the video for Big Papa at that time. 2344 02:19:05,840 --> 02:19:08,760 Speaker 1: And I get into an argument with Mark Pitts on 2345 02:19:08,800 --> 02:19:11,720 Speaker 1: the phone, that turns into an argument with Puffy on 2346 02:19:11,800 --> 02:19:15,720 Speaker 1: the phone and m and but yet they still came down. 2347 02:19:16,080 --> 02:19:18,720 Speaker 1: The show was over. You know, we had to refund 2348 02:19:18,800 --> 02:19:22,200 Speaker 1: a few people, but he didn't make it. And but 2349 02:19:22,320 --> 02:19:26,640 Speaker 1: they told Biggs manager and make sure Troy gets his 2350 02:19:26,720 --> 02:19:30,000 Speaker 1: money back. Um, we'll give you another show. And we 2351 02:19:30,080 --> 02:19:32,480 Speaker 1: were hanging out that night. I was having an after 2352 02:19:32,600 --> 02:19:35,760 Speaker 1: party and Puff was holding court and you know, v 2353 02:19:35,879 --> 02:19:38,800 Speaker 1: I p section and you know I'm talking and I said, 2354 02:19:38,879 --> 02:19:40,480 Speaker 1: you know what you know, I want to come work 2355 02:19:40,560 --> 02:19:43,000 Speaker 1: for you. And he said, all right, well your first 2356 02:19:43,120 --> 02:19:45,039 Speaker 1: job is get me that girl from behind the bar 2357 02:19:48,080 --> 02:19:50,320 Speaker 1: and um, and I got puffed the girl from behind 2358 02:19:50,360 --> 02:19:52,600 Speaker 1: the bar. And then a couple of weeks later I 2359 02:19:52,720 --> 02:19:56,360 Speaker 1: was interning that bad Boy. Then he moved to New York. No, 2360 02:19:56,560 --> 02:19:59,400 Speaker 1: I would commute three days a week. I would commute 2361 02:19:59,480 --> 02:20:04,520 Speaker 1: on p there Pan trailways. Um seven do I think 2362 02:20:04,560 --> 02:20:08,320 Speaker 1: it was seven dollars each way Peter Pan trailways from 2363 02:20:08,440 --> 02:20:12,080 Speaker 1: Philly to uh to uh To to New York. And 2364 02:20:12,280 --> 02:20:15,959 Speaker 1: so you're interning, you're obviously, you know, doing your best 2365 02:20:16,000 --> 02:20:18,880 Speaker 1: to do a good job. What's your break a bad boy? 2366 02:20:19,400 --> 02:20:22,879 Speaker 1: You know. I didn't get a break at Bad Boy, Um, 2367 02:20:23,040 --> 02:20:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, but what I did get was an education, 2368 02:20:26,959 --> 02:20:29,480 Speaker 1: you know Puff and even still to this day, you 2369 02:20:29,600 --> 02:20:32,640 Speaker 1: get a sort of master class and hustle and just 2370 02:20:32,879 --> 02:20:39,040 Speaker 1: seeing this guy operate that company just off of like 2371 02:20:39,160 --> 02:20:44,080 Speaker 1: I would see Puff at the club at night, and 2372 02:20:44,200 --> 02:20:47,360 Speaker 1: then I would see Puff in the office in the morning, 2373 02:20:47,879 --> 02:20:51,400 Speaker 1: and then at he had his recording studio called Daddy's House, 2374 02:20:51,480 --> 02:20:53,640 Speaker 1: where he you know, would be where he would make records. 2375 02:20:54,080 --> 02:20:56,760 Speaker 1: So you know, it just it was this sort of 2376 02:20:56,920 --> 02:21:02,160 Speaker 1: NonStop thing, but this sort of of masterful dance of 2377 02:21:02,280 --> 02:21:06,160 Speaker 1: being able to navigate sort of hip hop culture in 2378 02:21:06,240 --> 02:21:10,440 Speaker 1: the streets with corporate America and uh so that it 2379 02:21:10,560 --> 02:21:12,560 Speaker 1: just was that master class. So I didn't get a 2380 02:21:12,680 --> 02:21:16,600 Speaker 1: break in terms of uh, you know, I made it. 2381 02:21:16,840 --> 02:21:23,440 Speaker 1: It was you got cursed out, you got um worked 2382 02:21:24,000 --> 02:21:27,040 Speaker 1: to death, and you just wanted more of it, like 2383 02:21:27,280 --> 02:21:28,960 Speaker 1: you know, I just I couldn't get enough of it? 2384 02:21:29,760 --> 02:21:34,720 Speaker 1: And what was your next journey after that? Um? Afterwards, 2385 02:21:34,800 --> 02:21:37,440 Speaker 1: I started, UM. I went back to work for James 2386 02:21:37,560 --> 02:21:41,160 Speaker 1: Lasseter in in l a And UM, he and Will 2387 02:21:41,240 --> 02:21:45,000 Speaker 1: started a movie production company called Overbrook Entertainment, and UM 2388 02:21:45,040 --> 02:21:48,600 Speaker 1: so I was James's assistant and I did that and 2389 02:21:48,800 --> 02:21:51,640 Speaker 1: UM and James ended up firing me. I think after 2390 02:21:51,760 --> 02:21:53,720 Speaker 1: like a year and a half he ended up firing 2391 02:21:53,800 --> 02:21:57,039 Speaker 1: me and um sending me back to Philly. And then 2392 02:21:57,120 --> 02:21:59,440 Speaker 1: that's when my that was my big break when he 2393 02:21:59,600 --> 02:22:01,640 Speaker 1: fired did you because you've done a good job? I 2394 02:22:01,680 --> 02:22:04,000 Speaker 1: didn't you do? Or he said I'm colding you back, 2395 02:22:04,120 --> 02:22:07,240 Speaker 1: keeping you here. Um I wish I wish he was 2396 02:22:07,320 --> 02:22:10,280 Speaker 1: holding me back, keeping me there. I was arrogant as 2397 02:22:10,360 --> 02:22:13,760 Speaker 1: you can you could get. UM, I thought I knew everything, 2398 02:22:14,640 --> 02:22:19,320 Speaker 1: and James like it was no humility. And I remember, 2399 02:22:19,640 --> 02:22:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't have a I didn't have a 2400 02:22:21,240 --> 02:22:23,400 Speaker 1: car when I living in l A. And if you 2401 02:22:23,520 --> 02:22:25,040 Speaker 1: live in l A, you know how hard it is 2402 02:22:25,120 --> 02:22:27,600 Speaker 1: not to have a car. And um, and at one 2403 02:22:27,640 --> 02:22:30,200 Speaker 1: point I was dating this girl and um, and I 2404 02:22:30,240 --> 02:22:33,959 Speaker 1: would take the car service to go visit this girl. 2405 02:22:34,440 --> 02:22:36,400 Speaker 1: But and at the end of the week, I would 2406 02:22:36,440 --> 02:22:39,160 Speaker 1: just pay the general manager of the company when I 2407 02:22:39,240 --> 02:22:41,920 Speaker 1: got my check, here's the car service, you know, here's 2408 02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:44,440 Speaker 1: the money for the car service. And for some reason, 2409 02:22:44,680 --> 02:22:48,440 Speaker 1: she told James Troy has been using the car service. 2410 02:22:49,320 --> 02:22:53,760 Speaker 1: And he came in the office and aired me out 2411 02:22:53,959 --> 02:22:56,960 Speaker 1: and you know, in front of everybody, and told me, 2412 02:22:57,520 --> 02:23:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, he kicked me out of California. And he said, 2413 02:23:00,480 --> 02:23:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, he fired me on the spot, kicked me 2414 02:23:02,879 --> 02:23:05,280 Speaker 1: out of California. Me and him get into this huge 2415 02:23:05,280 --> 02:23:09,240 Speaker 1: shouting match in his office, and Will and Jada actually 2416 02:23:09,360 --> 02:23:13,640 Speaker 1: walked in like right after, and um, and Will said, 2417 02:23:13,720 --> 02:23:17,080 Speaker 1: you know what, go back to Philly. You know, we 2418 02:23:17,280 --> 02:23:20,000 Speaker 1: we'll give you a severance, but go back to Philly, 2419 02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:23,119 Speaker 1: and you know, get get yourself together. And I went 2420 02:23:23,200 --> 02:23:26,200 Speaker 1: back to Philly with my tail between my legs and 2421 02:23:26,320 --> 02:23:29,320 Speaker 1: what would would you start up in Philly? UM? I 2422 02:23:29,800 --> 02:23:32,520 Speaker 1: started up UM. It was it was a company called 2423 02:23:32,600 --> 02:23:36,320 Speaker 1: Black Friday that guys from my neighborhood that I knew. 2424 02:23:36,560 --> 02:23:42,880 Speaker 1: They basically UM started this management company. It was like 2425 02:23:42,920 --> 02:23:47,039 Speaker 1: a management production company. And they asked if I would 2426 02:23:47,160 --> 02:23:50,000 Speaker 1: come and basically run the company for him? Can I could? 2427 02:23:50,000 --> 02:23:51,959 Speaker 1: I could? I build it and started up for him 2428 02:23:52,520 --> 02:23:57,080 Speaker 1: and Eve was even Beanie Seagull where the clients there. 2429 02:23:57,840 --> 02:24:04,320 Speaker 1: And it was a hot mess and I ended up. 2430 02:24:04,560 --> 02:24:06,600 Speaker 1: You know, after a while, I'm like, I can't do 2431 02:24:06,720 --> 02:24:11,320 Speaker 1: this anymore. It was a lot of disorganization. One one 2432 02:24:11,440 --> 02:24:14,600 Speaker 1: client UM came into the office. One day, I got 2433 02:24:14,720 --> 02:24:17,880 Speaker 1: a call that the client got into an argument with 2434 02:24:18,160 --> 02:24:21,039 Speaker 1: one of the guys who owned the company and start 2435 02:24:21,120 --> 02:24:24,000 Speaker 1: shooting at him in the office. And that was it 2436 02:24:24,160 --> 02:24:26,600 Speaker 1: for me and I and I ended up that and 2437 02:24:27,240 --> 02:24:30,200 Speaker 1: I left at that point, and Eve was leaving and 2438 02:24:30,360 --> 02:24:32,840 Speaker 1: she had enough and she asked if I would help 2439 02:24:32,879 --> 02:24:34,840 Speaker 1: her find the manager. I took her to meet with 2440 02:24:35,440 --> 02:24:38,480 Speaker 1: Chris Lighty a few other managers, and then she asked 2441 02:24:38,520 --> 02:24:41,280 Speaker 1: if I would do it. Okay, so you do it 2442 02:24:42,200 --> 02:24:44,960 Speaker 1: and tell me how you ultimately get to there to 2443 02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:49,520 Speaker 1: making your deal with Sanctuary. So I started managing eve UM. 2444 02:24:50,560 --> 02:24:53,080 Speaker 1: I ended up signing a few other clients, me and 2445 02:24:53,280 --> 02:24:56,680 Speaker 1: up my partner at that time, Jay Irving. We built 2446 02:24:56,720 --> 02:24:59,480 Speaker 1: this company called Irving Wonder in Philadelphia, which was like 2447 02:24:59,600 --> 02:25:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, utique management company and UM. And we got 2448 02:25:03,720 --> 02:25:07,279 Speaker 1: a call from Matthew Knowles one day and Matthew asked 2449 02:25:07,440 --> 02:25:11,120 Speaker 1: if we would I want to sell our company to Sanctuary. 2450 02:25:11,200 --> 02:25:13,760 Speaker 1: He had just sold this company to Sanctuary. They were 2451 02:25:13,800 --> 02:25:18,640 Speaker 1: looking to build their urban music division and and he 2452 02:25:20,760 --> 02:25:23,600 Speaker 1: basically told me how much money? And I said, when 2453 02:25:23,720 --> 02:25:27,480 Speaker 1: where do I sign? Because I never, like, I had 2454 02:25:27,520 --> 02:25:29,360 Speaker 1: never seen that type of money in my life. So 2455 02:25:30,000 --> 02:25:32,119 Speaker 1: you know, without asking, I'm like, let's go, let's get 2456 02:25:32,160 --> 02:25:35,039 Speaker 1: this done. And how did it end with Sanctuary? Terrible? 2457 02:25:36,080 --> 02:25:37,920 Speaker 1: But you kept the money right? Yeah? But you know 2458 02:25:38,040 --> 02:25:40,320 Speaker 1: the thing is what I what I learned about Sanctuary. 2459 02:25:40,400 --> 02:25:44,200 Speaker 1: Like with the Sanctuary situation, I was so focused on 2460 02:25:44,760 --> 02:25:48,160 Speaker 1: the exit and the money that I was that it 2461 02:25:48,360 --> 02:25:52,240 Speaker 1: blinded me from all of the red flags that I 2462 02:25:52,320 --> 02:25:55,800 Speaker 1: should have noticed as they were doing their diligence on us. 2463 02:25:56,200 --> 02:25:58,240 Speaker 1: We should have been doing there our diligence on them, 2464 02:25:58,640 --> 02:26:03,040 Speaker 1: on them and um. And it just wasn't that. We 2465 02:26:03,160 --> 02:26:06,160 Speaker 1: went from a really cool culture at our company, like 2466 02:26:06,320 --> 02:26:09,880 Speaker 1: actually Jay Irvan and and his wife. UM, that's who 2467 02:26:09,920 --> 02:26:12,320 Speaker 1: I'm up here in Santa Barbara with this weekend. You know. 2468 02:26:12,480 --> 02:26:16,080 Speaker 1: It was me and my best friend. We built this company. 2469 02:26:16,200 --> 02:26:19,160 Speaker 1: We hung out every day, We hung out with our employees, 2470 02:26:19,200 --> 02:26:21,360 Speaker 1: we hung out with our artists. And then we sold 2471 02:26:21,440 --> 02:26:25,640 Speaker 1: this company the Sanctuary and the culture it just with 2472 02:26:25,840 --> 02:26:30,360 Speaker 1: the culture was terrible and um and the leadership wasn't great. 2473 02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:35,200 Speaker 1: Um and I'm just being honesty. They were terrible people. 2474 02:26:35,840 --> 02:26:37,760 Speaker 1: The you know, the guy running the company was a 2475 02:26:37,879 --> 02:26:42,000 Speaker 1: terrible person and he ended up we you know, we 2476 02:26:42,160 --> 02:26:46,680 Speaker 1: were trying to buy our company back. And because you know, I, 2477 02:26:46,959 --> 02:26:49,160 Speaker 1: like I said, I grew up like I love the 2478 02:26:49,280 --> 02:26:52,280 Speaker 1: music business. I love what I do. Um, I grew 2479 02:26:52,400 --> 02:26:54,680 Speaker 1: up loving this business. I grew up loving the music. 2480 02:26:55,200 --> 02:26:57,440 Speaker 1: And then it felt like I didn't want to go 2481 02:26:57,520 --> 02:26:59,240 Speaker 1: to work in the morning. I didn't want to go 2482 02:26:59,320 --> 02:27:01,520 Speaker 1: into the office is and I wanted to buy the 2483 02:27:01,600 --> 02:27:05,200 Speaker 1: company back. And so I started this negotiation to buy 2484 02:27:05,280 --> 02:27:09,680 Speaker 1: the company back, and we couldn't reach a deal. And 2485 02:27:09,800 --> 02:27:12,720 Speaker 1: then somebody told me, who works in finance. They said, 2486 02:27:14,800 --> 02:27:17,360 Speaker 1: hold out for a little bit longer, because if you 2487 02:27:17,520 --> 02:27:19,560 Speaker 1: hold out, I don't even think they're gonna be able 2488 02:27:19,600 --> 02:27:22,280 Speaker 1: to make salary. They're not even gonna make your your 2489 02:27:22,440 --> 02:27:27,960 Speaker 1: your uh, your paycheck. So I'm walking into a restaurant 2490 02:27:28,000 --> 02:27:31,600 Speaker 1: and I never forget it's on my birthday. I'm walking 2491 02:27:31,640 --> 02:27:35,760 Speaker 1: into a restaurant, and my attorney at that time, David Landy, 2492 02:27:35,840 --> 02:27:37,520 Speaker 1: calls me up and he said, you know, are you 2493 02:27:37,640 --> 02:27:39,760 Speaker 1: by yourself? I said no, but I can walk out. 2494 02:27:40,040 --> 02:27:42,760 Speaker 1: I said, what's up? He said, Sanctuary. I just got 2495 02:27:42,879 --> 02:27:46,600 Speaker 1: a fact from Sanctuary and they're suing you and Jay 2496 02:27:47,080 --> 02:27:50,720 Speaker 1: for calls. I said, what's the calls? He said, they 2497 02:27:50,760 --> 02:27:54,480 Speaker 1: don't have a cause. And what we found out was 2498 02:27:54,600 --> 02:27:57,640 Speaker 1: the cause was they couldn't make our paychecks and they 2499 02:27:57,680 --> 02:28:00,680 Speaker 1: didn't want to pay us out. And and you know, 2500 02:28:00,800 --> 02:28:04,640 Speaker 1: our business is very rare when anybody in our business 2501 02:28:04,680 --> 02:28:11,000 Speaker 1: gets suit for calls. And to have that on the 2502 02:28:11,240 --> 02:28:14,880 Speaker 1: front cover of a variety, you know, magazine or whatever, 2503 02:28:15,640 --> 02:28:19,080 Speaker 1: and to know that, like it just was they just 2504 02:28:19,200 --> 02:28:22,480 Speaker 1: with terrible people, and we ended up being able to 2505 02:28:23,040 --> 02:28:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, they ended up having to pay us out. 2506 02:28:25,440 --> 02:28:27,720 Speaker 1: And you know, I, you know, I ended up starting 2507 02:28:27,760 --> 02:28:30,400 Speaker 1: a new company, but it was a valuable lesson and 2508 02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:36,760 Speaker 1: culture and people and that the new company is atom Factory. 2509 02:28:36,840 --> 02:28:39,360 Speaker 1: Was Adom Factory until the audience Why you named it 2510 02:28:39,440 --> 02:28:43,080 Speaker 1: atom Factory? Um? The idea what Adom Factory was? You know? 2511 02:28:43,360 --> 02:28:46,080 Speaker 1: Thinking about it was something I wanted to do, something 2512 02:28:46,320 --> 02:28:49,400 Speaker 1: small but yet powerful, and you know, and and and 2513 02:28:49,480 --> 02:28:52,440 Speaker 1: the name Adam just kind of some summarized it for me, 2514 02:28:52,600 --> 02:28:56,360 Speaker 1: like you know, um, you know, because I never wanted, 2515 02:28:56,520 --> 02:28:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, a talent roster with a hundred people on 2516 02:28:59,440 --> 02:29:03,119 Speaker 1: the roster. But how can I build a small company 2517 02:29:03,200 --> 02:29:07,680 Speaker 1: but that still has some gravitizing importance? So how do 2518 02:29:07,760 --> 02:29:11,560 Speaker 1: you sign Leady Gaga? Um? Got guy I met Gay 2519 02:29:11,640 --> 02:29:14,879 Speaker 1: got through a guy named Vincent Herbert and Vincent Um 2520 02:29:14,959 --> 02:29:17,520 Speaker 1: I had known since I was coming up in the business. 2521 02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:19,800 Speaker 1: And he caught me up one day and he said, 2522 02:29:19,959 --> 02:29:23,200 Speaker 1: I got this girl who you have to meet. Um, 2523 02:29:23,480 --> 02:29:26,119 Speaker 1: I'm flying her from New York tomorrow and I'm gonna 2524 02:29:26,160 --> 02:29:29,520 Speaker 1: bring her by. And you know, he showed up and 2525 02:29:30,280 --> 02:29:32,960 Speaker 1: she walked in with you know, these big sunglasses on 2526 02:29:33,200 --> 02:29:38,040 Speaker 1: and you know, no pants and fishnet stockings and played 2527 02:29:39,480 --> 02:29:44,280 Speaker 1: hit after hit. Um, it was what what I loved. 2528 02:29:44,320 --> 02:29:48,080 Speaker 1: What I loved was it looked like she landed from 2529 02:29:48,120 --> 02:29:54,280 Speaker 1: another planet. But she owned it. And I told Vince, 2530 02:29:54,280 --> 02:29:56,800 Speaker 1: I said, you gotta bring her back, like just promised 2531 02:29:56,840 --> 02:29:59,160 Speaker 1: me you'll you'll bring her back. And a few months 2532 02:29:59,240 --> 02:30:02,080 Speaker 1: later he he actually he lived up to that promise 2533 02:30:02,120 --> 02:30:04,600 Speaker 1: and he bought her back. Now, when you signed or 2534 02:30:04,680 --> 02:30:07,520 Speaker 1: did anybody else want her? No, she had she had 2535 02:30:07,600 --> 02:30:12,360 Speaker 1: just gotten dropped from deaf Jam. Um, probably a few 2536 02:30:12,400 --> 02:30:15,400 Speaker 1: months prioritized meeting, she had gotten dropped from deaf Jam 2537 02:30:16,160 --> 02:30:19,200 Speaker 1: and um, you know she kind of I went to 2538 02:30:19,280 --> 02:30:22,200 Speaker 1: West Virginia for a while and like spent some time 2539 02:30:22,240 --> 02:30:26,280 Speaker 1: with a grandmother and um, and so she was like, 2540 02:30:26,440 --> 02:30:28,720 Speaker 1: you know, it was one of those things with where 2541 02:30:28,760 --> 02:30:31,040 Speaker 1: you had nothing to lose, like you know I had. 2542 02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:34,840 Speaker 1: I was going through a terrible time financially. You know, 2543 02:30:34,959 --> 02:30:37,800 Speaker 1: this was like two thousand and seven when we met, 2544 02:30:38,000 --> 02:30:41,520 Speaker 1: going like so right, you know, I had invested everything 2545 02:30:41,600 --> 02:30:45,320 Speaker 1: into this new company, even fired me right before that, 2546 02:30:45,760 --> 02:30:49,400 Speaker 1: and um, and you know my wife and I, you know, 2547 02:30:49,480 --> 02:30:51,640 Speaker 1: we were losing our house. You know, her and my 2548 02:30:51,760 --> 02:30:55,000 Speaker 1: mother in law literally pawned their wedding rings that to 2549 02:30:55,120 --> 02:30:59,480 Speaker 1: save our house. They you know, our kids were getting kicked. 2550 02:30:59,520 --> 02:31:02,440 Speaker 1: You know, we couldn't pay school tuition or anything like that, 2551 02:31:03,160 --> 02:31:09,920 Speaker 1: so financially I was completely wiped. Um and when Gaga came, 2552 02:31:10,160 --> 02:31:13,280 Speaker 1: that was like the only thing I had to work 2553 02:31:13,360 --> 02:31:18,840 Speaker 1: on essentially, and she had just gotten dropped. And I 2554 02:31:18,920 --> 02:31:21,200 Speaker 1: think it was one of those things where is you 2555 02:31:21,360 --> 02:31:24,880 Speaker 1: have nothing to lose, and like you gotta make it work. 2556 02:31:25,440 --> 02:31:28,360 Speaker 1: And we both really really had to make it work. 2557 02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:30,080 Speaker 1: And what did you tell her to get her to 2558 02:31:30,160 --> 02:31:33,440 Speaker 1: sign with you? You know, I took her to a 2559 02:31:33,560 --> 02:31:41,000 Speaker 1: fancy restaurant called Spaghetti Warehouse. We went to Spaghetti Warehouse, 2560 02:31:44,400 --> 02:31:48,640 Speaker 1: I swear to you, and um and uh, and we 2561 02:31:48,800 --> 02:31:51,120 Speaker 1: just talked. I think we spent like a couple of 2562 02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:56,360 Speaker 1: hours together. And then I remember I think it was 2563 02:31:57,440 --> 02:32:00,560 Speaker 1: I think it was. Wasn't it Layla's birthday? Baby? Yeah, 2564 02:32:00,959 --> 02:32:04,920 Speaker 1: and because I remember it was my daughter's birthday and um, 2565 02:32:05,320 --> 02:32:08,560 Speaker 1: and it's and I had to stop for cupcakes on 2566 02:32:08,680 --> 02:32:12,400 Speaker 1: the way home. So it's literally me and Gaga standing 2567 02:32:12,480 --> 02:32:16,800 Speaker 1: on um little Santa monicat like sprinkles cupcakes. Remember it 2568 02:32:16,879 --> 02:32:19,600 Speaker 1: used to be like a line outside the door, and like, 2569 02:32:19,800 --> 02:32:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, she's you know, looking like Gaga on like 2570 02:32:24,480 --> 02:32:29,160 Speaker 1: in front at Sprinkles and we're but we hit it 2571 02:32:29,240 --> 02:32:33,080 Speaker 1: off right away, like we like it was. We got 2572 02:32:33,160 --> 02:32:37,200 Speaker 1: each other right away. And um, I believed in in 2573 02:32:37,360 --> 02:32:42,520 Speaker 1: her vision and she trusted me with everything, and we 2574 02:32:42,920 --> 02:32:46,680 Speaker 1: we you know, and and but a few things like 2575 02:32:47,840 --> 02:32:54,800 Speaker 1: this is what's interesting, Like like a lot of times, 2576 02:32:54,879 --> 02:32:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, you you you hear, you know, the sort 2577 02:32:57,840 --> 02:33:00,840 Speaker 1: of romantic stories about you know, how every thing happened 2578 02:33:00,920 --> 02:33:06,440 Speaker 1: or whatever. But you know, Vincent Herbert had just walked 2579 02:33:06,480 --> 02:33:10,640 Speaker 1: away from his record label, UM that he had with 2580 02:33:10,720 --> 02:33:13,160 Speaker 1: a guy Barry Hankerson. So Vincent kind of left his 2581 02:33:13,240 --> 02:33:16,320 Speaker 1: record label behind. So this was his new thing and 2582 02:33:16,400 --> 02:33:20,040 Speaker 1: Goga was the only thing he had. Jimmy was in 2583 02:33:20,120 --> 02:33:23,960 Speaker 1: the middle of his divorce at that time, UM, and 2584 02:33:24,560 --> 02:33:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, Interscope was probably this was probably one of 2585 02:33:28,240 --> 02:33:31,080 Speaker 1: Interscope's tough as years, you know, during during that time 2586 02:33:31,160 --> 02:33:36,160 Speaker 1: period or whatever. And so Jimmy was kind of doing 2587 02:33:36,280 --> 02:33:40,160 Speaker 1: his thing and left us alone on the guy got projects, 2588 02:33:40,320 --> 02:33:43,840 Speaker 1: so basically kind of gave us carte blanche. So we 2589 02:33:43,959 --> 02:33:46,800 Speaker 1: were kind of running doing our own thing. So she 2590 02:33:47,000 --> 02:33:50,320 Speaker 1: was making these records and he was focused on Pussycat Dolls. 2591 02:33:50,800 --> 02:33:54,560 Speaker 1: So every record that she would make Jimmy was taking 2592 02:33:54,600 --> 02:33:57,080 Speaker 1: the records like you know, and she would give records 2593 02:33:57,120 --> 02:34:01,000 Speaker 1: to Pussycat Dolls or Rodney jerk And I remember one 2594 02:34:01,120 --> 02:34:04,720 Speaker 1: record that you know, uh, she had written with Rodney 2595 02:34:04,800 --> 02:34:08,520 Speaker 1: Jerkins and she wanted it for herself and Rodney's like, no, 2596 02:34:08,840 --> 02:34:11,000 Speaker 1: she's a new artist. I'm not giving her this record. 2597 02:34:11,120 --> 02:34:13,960 Speaker 1: I need to get this record to Britney Spears. Brittany 2598 02:34:14,080 --> 02:34:16,199 Speaker 1: is you know, she's a superstar. We're giving this record 2599 02:34:16,280 --> 02:34:20,920 Speaker 1: the Britney Spears and Goga was pissed. Um. The record 2600 02:34:21,040 --> 02:34:27,360 Speaker 1: was called Telephone, so of course, you know, Gaga becomes 2601 02:34:27,440 --> 02:34:29,840 Speaker 1: gay guy. And Brittany had recorded the record as a 2602 02:34:29,920 --> 02:34:33,640 Speaker 1: demo and she's like, nope, get that record back. And 2603 02:34:33,800 --> 02:34:36,280 Speaker 1: she put Beyonce on that record, and that record became, 2604 02:34:36,720 --> 02:34:39,039 Speaker 1: you know, a number one hit. But she couldn't keep 2605 02:34:39,040 --> 02:34:41,600 Speaker 1: a record because everybody would take it because she wasn't 2606 02:34:41,640 --> 02:34:44,640 Speaker 1: a big star. But I started keeping making sure we 2607 02:34:44,680 --> 02:34:48,600 Speaker 1: could keep those records. So just Dance we kept, which 2608 02:34:48,720 --> 02:34:51,920 Speaker 1: became a number one record. Um, Love Game we kept 2609 02:34:52,000 --> 02:34:54,760 Speaker 1: became a number one run record. Poker Face we kept 2610 02:34:54,840 --> 02:34:57,800 Speaker 1: that one became a number one record, and um so 2611 02:34:58,000 --> 02:35:00,640 Speaker 1: it just was really fighting and and sort of a 2612 02:35:00,760 --> 02:35:07,720 Speaker 1: blocking and tackling. We'll take a quick break and come 2613 02:35:07,760 --> 02:35:10,560 Speaker 1: back with more of my conversation with director of Creative 2614 02:35:10,600 --> 02:35:14,800 Speaker 1: Services that Spotify, Troy Carter, recorded live at the Music 2615 02:35:14,920 --> 02:35:20,160 Speaker 1: Media Summit in Santa Barbara, California. This week, I'm speaking 2616 02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:24,400 Speaker 1: with Troy Carter. Recently I interviewed Brian Fogel, who created 2617 02:35:24,480 --> 02:35:28,440 Speaker 1: Oscar winning documentary LUs. Be the first to hear next 2618 02:35:28,480 --> 02:35:31,960 Speaker 1: week's episode by subscribing to the podcast I'm tuned in 2619 02:35:32,320 --> 02:35:36,080 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast or your podcast Apple Troys. While you're there, 2620 02:35:36,600 --> 02:35:40,000 Speaker 1: be sure to rate and review the podcast. Okay, let's 2621 02:35:40,040 --> 02:35:43,960 Speaker 1: get back to my conversation with Troy Carter. Now. The 2622 02:35:44,080 --> 02:35:47,200 Speaker 1: story is she was making dance music at a time 2623 02:35:47,280 --> 02:35:50,200 Speaker 1: dance music was not on the chart or on the radio, 2624 02:35:50,640 --> 02:35:53,440 Speaker 1: and the interscope went to the wall for you. Is 2625 02:35:53,520 --> 02:35:56,320 Speaker 1: that true? Yeah, it was. We were getting a lot 2626 02:35:56,400 --> 02:35:59,400 Speaker 1: of pushback from Top forty radio because they thought that 2627 02:35:59,520 --> 02:36:02,119 Speaker 1: it was to electronic because it was sort of four 2628 02:36:02,160 --> 02:36:04,680 Speaker 1: on the floor and read one who was the music 2629 02:36:04,760 --> 02:36:08,480 Speaker 1: producer was just um, you know, he came out of Sweden, 2630 02:36:08,640 --> 02:36:10,840 Speaker 1: so it was you know, sort of Swedish sound at 2631 02:36:10,879 --> 02:36:15,240 Speaker 1: that time, and we didn't take no fin answer, but 2632 02:36:15,440 --> 02:36:19,160 Speaker 1: neither did Brenda Romano, who was working Top forty radio 2633 02:36:19,240 --> 02:36:22,360 Speaker 1: at that time, and so she just kept knocking on 2634 02:36:22,480 --> 02:36:27,040 Speaker 1: those doors. And but the Internet and being able to 2635 02:36:27,200 --> 02:36:29,760 Speaker 1: kind of build that story and come back to radio 2636 02:36:30,440 --> 02:36:34,720 Speaker 1: was really important. So we were building audiences um on 2637 02:36:35,080 --> 02:36:38,279 Speaker 1: YouTube and you know, and building this sort of international 2638 02:36:38,400 --> 02:36:41,879 Speaker 1: following on YouTube. We were doing the same thing on Twitter, 2639 02:36:42,080 --> 02:36:44,880 Speaker 1: We were doing the same thing um on a couple 2640 02:36:45,000 --> 02:36:48,560 Speaker 1: other platforms. And then NAT started translating into call out 2641 02:36:48,640 --> 02:36:51,000 Speaker 1: at radio so they would put the record on and 2642 02:36:51,080 --> 02:36:53,440 Speaker 1: kids already knew the record. You know, the radio was 2643 02:36:53,600 --> 02:36:56,480 Speaker 1: late at that time because kids were already familiar with 2644 02:36:56,560 --> 02:36:59,040 Speaker 1: the record. Sort of what's happening with Spotify now, but 2645 02:36:59,400 --> 02:37:03,440 Speaker 1: saving that for a little bit later. Okay, Gaga blows up. 2646 02:37:04,920 --> 02:37:08,760 Speaker 1: It must be an amazing learning experience for you. Yeah, 2647 02:37:08,959 --> 02:37:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, it's It's what I realized was, you know, 2648 02:37:11,879 --> 02:37:15,920 Speaker 1: it's levels you know, and the business and its levels 2649 02:37:15,959 --> 02:37:19,640 Speaker 1: in life, you know, um, because with Eve, Eve had 2650 02:37:19,680 --> 02:37:25,640 Speaker 1: a wildly successful career for hip hop artists, you know, 2651 02:37:25,800 --> 02:37:28,320 Speaker 1: and and even you know, we did her TV show 2652 02:37:28,360 --> 02:37:30,840 Speaker 1: and it lasted for you know a few years, but 2653 02:37:31,000 --> 02:37:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, that was primarily you know, it was African 2654 02:37:33,840 --> 02:37:39,000 Speaker 1: American audiences that was consuming you know, the the TV show, 2655 02:37:39,600 --> 02:37:42,280 Speaker 1: So we weren't We didn't have that level of pop 2656 02:37:42,360 --> 02:37:46,280 Speaker 1: exposure at at at that time. So and I had 2657 02:37:46,360 --> 02:37:49,960 Speaker 1: glimpses of it through Sanctuary because Destiny's Child was you know, 2658 02:37:50,120 --> 02:37:53,040 Speaker 1: managed by Sanctuary and a few other pop acts, but 2659 02:37:53,160 --> 02:37:57,199 Speaker 1: I wasn't personally exposed to it. So with Gaga, only 2660 02:37:57,320 --> 02:38:00,879 Speaker 1: had experience as a hip hop manager, so I kind 2661 02:38:00,920 --> 02:38:03,200 Speaker 1: of managed her like a hip hop act. So we 2662 02:38:03,320 --> 02:38:06,640 Speaker 1: were doing three shows a night. Um, you know, the 2663 02:38:06,760 --> 02:38:10,040 Speaker 1: sound was terrible half the time. You know, you know rappers, 2664 02:38:10,120 --> 02:38:12,039 Speaker 1: you know they're holding the micro like this or whatever, 2665 02:38:12,640 --> 02:38:15,440 Speaker 1: and um, so we didn't know sound. And um, you 2666 02:38:15,520 --> 02:38:19,160 Speaker 1: know Jimmy Iveen. She was opening for New Kids on 2667 02:38:19,240 --> 02:38:21,680 Speaker 1: the Block. And I remember Jimmy pulling me to the 2668 02:38:21,800 --> 02:38:25,120 Speaker 1: side after the first show at Staples Center and he said, 2669 02:38:25,959 --> 02:38:29,160 Speaker 1: the show was great, sound was terrible. This is what 2670 02:38:29,280 --> 02:38:31,360 Speaker 1: you need to do to fix the sound. You know, 2671 02:38:31,560 --> 02:38:33,280 Speaker 1: this is the guy you need to call to fix 2672 02:38:33,360 --> 02:38:36,760 Speaker 1: the sound. And he taught me, you know, sort of 2673 02:38:37,320 --> 02:38:40,320 Speaker 1: sonically with pop acts as supposed to sound like. And 2674 02:38:40,400 --> 02:38:44,320 Speaker 1: then I met Arthur Fogel and Michael Rapino, and they 2675 02:38:44,440 --> 02:38:47,160 Speaker 1: taught me what pop acts as supposed to tour like, 2676 02:38:47,840 --> 02:38:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, So it was it was I was I 2677 02:38:49,959 --> 02:38:52,760 Speaker 1: felt like I was in school learning a lot of 2678 02:38:52,800 --> 02:38:56,160 Speaker 1: this stuff. So where I knew this sort of basic 2679 02:38:56,800 --> 02:39:01,960 Speaker 1: um fundamentals of protect your client with everything you have. 2680 02:39:03,000 --> 02:39:07,480 Speaker 1: And so my instincts were worked, you know, in terms 2681 02:39:07,600 --> 02:39:12,039 Speaker 1: of of protecting a client, but in terms of global 2682 02:39:12,200 --> 02:39:16,400 Speaker 1: touring and making and building a global superstar. I've gone 2683 02:39:16,440 --> 02:39:19,280 Speaker 1: to countries I had never gone to, and you know, 2684 02:39:19,440 --> 02:39:22,560 Speaker 1: it just was a whole new experience. And at any 2685 02:39:22,640 --> 02:39:25,240 Speaker 1: time in the height of her career did another manager 2686 02:39:25,280 --> 02:39:27,640 Speaker 1: try to steal your act all the time? You know. 2687 02:39:27,720 --> 02:39:31,240 Speaker 1: I remember I remember getting a call from UM just 2688 02:39:31,480 --> 02:39:34,520 Speaker 1: this is as she was really this is as the 2689 02:39:34,600 --> 02:39:39,160 Speaker 1: first single was taken off, and her lawyer, Um, her 2690 02:39:39,240 --> 02:39:47,320 Speaker 1: first lawyer called up and and said, um, uh, I'm 2691 02:39:47,360 --> 02:39:50,960 Speaker 1: not even gonna mention him. Uh big, big, big manager 2692 02:39:51,120 --> 02:39:53,720 Speaker 1: calls calls up and he wants to take a meeting 2693 02:39:54,520 --> 02:39:57,280 Speaker 1: uh with with with uh And this is why I 2694 02:39:57,400 --> 02:40:01,680 Speaker 1: love her. By the way, big manager called up the 2695 02:40:01,840 --> 02:40:06,680 Speaker 1: lawyer tried to set the meeting up and and like 2696 02:40:06,840 --> 02:40:12,480 Speaker 1: around me and she called me, Wow, she called me, 2697 02:40:13,480 --> 02:40:20,320 Speaker 1: and um, she said fire him the lawyer. Yeah, that's great, 2698 02:40:20,600 --> 02:40:24,920 Speaker 1: But eventually it does end with Stephanie. Now we've talked 2699 02:40:24,959 --> 02:40:26,560 Speaker 1: about that. But for the people who don't know the 2700 02:40:26,640 --> 02:40:29,800 Speaker 1: story in retrospect, I know there was an issue she 2701 02:40:29,879 --> 02:40:33,680 Speaker 1: had to do boyfriend, etcetera. Did you see it coming? No, 2702 02:40:33,920 --> 02:40:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think you ever see that ce 2703 02:40:36,480 --> 02:40:40,640 Speaker 1: C C that type of thing coming. And um, and 2704 02:40:40,760 --> 02:40:43,160 Speaker 1: you know, and and of course you know I can't 2705 02:40:43,200 --> 02:40:46,040 Speaker 1: get into any of the specifics or anything like that, 2706 02:40:46,360 --> 02:40:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, Um, but and I and I don't want 2707 02:40:49,440 --> 02:40:53,480 Speaker 1: to sit here and bullsit you and and and you know, 2708 02:40:53,840 --> 02:40:56,520 Speaker 1: say any sort of fake story. But you know, the 2709 02:40:56,640 --> 02:41:01,439 Speaker 1: reality is, you know, she and I had a credible relationship, 2710 02:41:01,640 --> 02:41:04,320 Speaker 1: like and even to this day, I still I still 2711 02:41:04,440 --> 02:41:07,760 Speaker 1: love her despite anything that's happened with her. H No, 2712 02:41:08,000 --> 02:41:10,920 Speaker 1: we don't we know contact with her right now. And um, 2713 02:41:11,080 --> 02:41:16,119 Speaker 1: but you know, I think it's hard to go through 2714 02:41:16,879 --> 02:41:20,119 Speaker 1: that sort of period of time and and where you're 2715 02:41:20,440 --> 02:41:23,160 Speaker 1: pretty much living on a bus together. You know, you're 2716 02:41:23,200 --> 02:41:28,040 Speaker 1: traveling the world together. You know, UM, just down to 2717 02:41:28,440 --> 02:41:31,760 Speaker 1: like you know, birth of kids and you know everything, 2718 02:41:32,600 --> 02:41:36,600 Speaker 1: so where and and it's not like I had a 2719 02:41:36,680 --> 02:41:39,520 Speaker 1: big roster, you know, for the first when I was 2720 02:41:39,600 --> 02:41:41,760 Speaker 1: managing GOG. I think for the at least for the 2721 02:41:41,800 --> 02:41:44,800 Speaker 1: first couple of years, she was really the only client 2722 02:41:44,920 --> 02:41:46,560 Speaker 1: that I was that I was focused on, So she 2723 02:41:46,640 --> 02:41:52,560 Speaker 1: and I were really tight. So I wouldn't yet So 2724 02:41:53,120 --> 02:41:55,840 Speaker 1: when when it when it comes, I don't think you've 2725 02:41:55,840 --> 02:41:59,680 Speaker 1: ever prepared for it, you know, so and and it's emotional. 2726 02:42:00,440 --> 02:42:04,240 Speaker 1: You go through the sort of the motions of hurt 2727 02:42:04,360 --> 02:42:07,280 Speaker 1: and anger, and and and and everything else or whatever. 2728 02:42:07,720 --> 02:42:10,680 Speaker 1: But the reality is, you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't 2729 02:42:11,040 --> 02:42:12,960 Speaker 1: give it back for the world because I think it 2730 02:42:13,040 --> 02:42:17,000 Speaker 1: was an incredible experience. She helped my career just as 2731 02:42:17,080 --> 02:42:19,520 Speaker 1: much as I helped her career. We both came up 2732 02:42:19,560 --> 02:42:25,280 Speaker 1: and in the business together, and um, and life happens, 2733 02:42:25,400 --> 02:42:28,200 Speaker 1: man like you know, life, life happened. Now, since you've 2734 02:42:28,280 --> 02:42:31,440 Speaker 1: managed her, stop manager, she has not had a hit. 2735 02:42:32,080 --> 02:42:36,000 Speaker 1: She's had very successful road business. First with Tony Bennet, 2736 02:42:36,360 --> 02:42:39,720 Speaker 1: she's brought If you were to manager again, what do 2737 02:42:39,800 --> 02:42:43,640 Speaker 1: you think she should do to sustain and build her career. 2738 02:42:44,440 --> 02:42:47,800 Speaker 1: The good thing is, you know we're talking about and 2739 02:42:47,879 --> 02:42:53,360 Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this. She's probably one of the most. 2740 02:42:54,080 --> 02:42:55,680 Speaker 1: And when I say one of the most, I'm not 2741 02:42:55,760 --> 02:42:59,760 Speaker 1: even saying broadly. I'm talking, you know, top five most 2742 02:43:00,080 --> 02:43:07,440 Speaker 1: talented artists and in the business. And it's very hard. 2743 02:43:09,280 --> 02:43:12,280 Speaker 1: You know, probably you know when you look at her 2744 02:43:12,440 --> 02:43:17,360 Speaker 1: live show, it's probably only a couple of artists you 2745 02:43:17,440 --> 02:43:20,080 Speaker 1: know that that is up on that level in terms 2746 02:43:20,120 --> 02:43:26,680 Speaker 1: of live live concert performances, playing like piano is you know, 2747 02:43:26,800 --> 02:43:31,360 Speaker 1: it's vocalists, like you know, performance artists, top top top, top, 2748 02:43:31,480 --> 02:43:37,440 Speaker 1: top level. Find it's just getting the records. That's all 2749 02:43:37,480 --> 02:43:40,760 Speaker 1: it boils down to. It's like you know, if if, who, 2750 02:43:40,879 --> 02:43:44,480 Speaker 1: who are you collaborating with? And and the reality is 2751 02:43:45,840 --> 02:43:55,560 Speaker 1: finding making making great records with superstars is hard and 2752 02:43:56,080 --> 02:44:02,120 Speaker 1: it's a village because you got have to have incredibly 2753 02:44:02,400 --> 02:44:08,800 Speaker 1: strong producers in the room who can push back. You 2754 02:44:08,959 --> 02:44:13,680 Speaker 1: have to have an incredibly strong person at the top 2755 02:44:13,720 --> 02:44:17,320 Speaker 1: of that record label because Jimmy, basically Jimmy was tough. 2756 02:44:18,000 --> 02:44:21,240 Speaker 1: Like you know, you bring records in. Jimmy's a record producer, 2757 02:44:21,640 --> 02:44:24,400 Speaker 1: so Jimmy's gonna tell you how that record sounds or whatever. 2758 02:44:24,959 --> 02:44:27,640 Speaker 1: Vincent was a record producer and a songwriter, so Vince 2759 02:44:27,800 --> 02:44:29,680 Speaker 1: is going to tell you how to how that record 2760 02:44:29,760 --> 02:44:33,080 Speaker 1: sounds or whatever. And so it's a filter that it 2761 02:44:33,160 --> 02:44:35,160 Speaker 1: goes through, so it's not just the people in the 2762 02:44:35,280 --> 02:44:37,840 Speaker 1: room that are that are collaborating. And you put the 2763 02:44:37,879 --> 02:44:40,880 Speaker 1: record out, you gotta beat you gotta beat that record up, 2764 02:44:40,920 --> 02:44:43,080 Speaker 1: and you gotta be tough on tough on that record. 2765 02:44:43,400 --> 02:44:46,400 Speaker 1: But I think she I'm not worried about her, to 2766 02:44:46,440 --> 02:44:49,440 Speaker 1: be honest with you. It's like, you know, artists like she, 2767 02:44:50,280 --> 02:44:52,680 Speaker 1: She's just one of those artists. She's gonna be around 2768 02:44:52,840 --> 02:44:58,000 Speaker 1: for fifty years. It certainly seems like that. So while 2769 02:44:58,120 --> 02:45:00,840 Speaker 1: she's at the peak of her success, you meet a 2770 02:45:00,959 --> 02:45:06,000 Speaker 1: guy who guide you into the investment tech world. Can 2771 02:45:06,080 --> 02:45:09,680 Speaker 1: you tell the simple multitude about that? Yeah, it was um. 2772 02:45:09,840 --> 02:45:11,360 Speaker 1: You know, we were doing we were doing a lot 2773 02:45:11,440 --> 02:45:15,280 Speaker 1: of experimenting, UM with social media and I and I've 2774 02:45:15,360 --> 02:45:20,400 Speaker 1: always been curious around other businesses, you know, so that's 2775 02:45:20,440 --> 02:45:23,000 Speaker 1: been a thing where I just want to learn everything 2776 02:45:23,120 --> 02:45:25,920 Speaker 1: I can about what you do. Like so if I'm curious, 2777 02:45:26,320 --> 02:45:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm going down the rabbit hole. And UM, and we started. 2778 02:45:31,280 --> 02:45:35,039 Speaker 1: I remember I got invited to do a day trip 2779 02:45:35,720 --> 02:45:38,520 Speaker 1: to Silicon Valley and I never gone to the valley 2780 02:45:38,600 --> 02:45:41,879 Speaker 1: before and never gone to Palo altoo before and UM 2781 02:45:42,160 --> 02:45:44,760 Speaker 1: and I flew in in the morning and my first 2782 02:45:44,840 --> 02:45:47,400 Speaker 1: meeting was with I think it was David simmon off 2783 02:45:47,600 --> 02:45:51,360 Speaker 1: from Yahoo, like at a coffee shop at like eight 2784 02:45:51,400 --> 02:45:54,400 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning and you know, and just he's 2785 02:45:54,480 --> 02:45:57,360 Speaker 1: telling me about the valley and you know, and just 2786 02:45:57,640 --> 02:46:01,720 Speaker 1: his history and everything and very very interesting. And then 2787 02:46:01,800 --> 02:46:06,520 Speaker 1: my second meeting was at Palentteer and UM and if 2788 02:46:06,560 --> 02:46:14,000 Speaker 1: you if if Palentteer is probably the most sophisticated technology 2789 02:46:14,120 --> 02:46:18,200 Speaker 1: company in Silicon Valley. And it was founded by a 2790 02:46:18,240 --> 02:46:23,519 Speaker 1: guy named Joe Lonsdale who was Peter Tiel's like you know, protege, 2791 02:46:24,080 --> 02:46:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, as Peter was coming out of PayPal, and 2792 02:46:27,200 --> 02:46:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, I go into their offices and it's like 2793 02:46:29,920 --> 02:46:34,520 Speaker 1: the TV show twenty four And what Palentteer basically does 2794 02:46:34,720 --> 02:46:41,000 Speaker 1: is they track um, terroristic algorithms on the Internet. So 2795 02:46:41,520 --> 02:46:46,200 Speaker 1: and so when after nine eleven, when the FBI was 2796 02:46:46,320 --> 02:46:49,840 Speaker 1: building air thing and CIA was building air thing, the 2797 02:46:50,000 --> 02:46:53,240 Speaker 1: d A was building air thing, none of the technology 2798 02:46:53,640 --> 02:46:57,360 Speaker 1: talked to each other and you know, and really worked 2799 02:46:57,400 --> 02:47:00,200 Speaker 1: in a way to and Palenteer figured it out. So 2800 02:47:01,959 --> 02:47:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm seeing this with my own I'm like, am I 2801 02:47:03,760 --> 02:47:06,160 Speaker 1: even you know, it's like, you know, some serious stuff. 2802 02:47:06,720 --> 02:47:09,400 Speaker 1: And then we went to Facebook and all of these companies, 2803 02:47:09,600 --> 02:47:11,760 Speaker 1: and then and that night they threw me a barbecue 2804 02:47:11,800 --> 02:47:16,560 Speaker 1: at Joe Linsdale's house and and I'm talking to all 2805 02:47:16,600 --> 02:47:19,680 Speaker 1: of these guys and you know, people could barely look 2806 02:47:19,720 --> 02:47:22,080 Speaker 1: you in the face. And you know, there's like as 2807 02:47:22,240 --> 02:47:28,520 Speaker 1: Berger's Convention. I told my wife, I'm like, I'm doing 2808 02:47:28,600 --> 02:47:31,240 Speaker 1: this wrong in l A right now. Like it's like 2809 02:47:31,400 --> 02:47:35,080 Speaker 1: everybody's driving I'm driving a Rolls Royce and these billionaires 2810 02:47:35,080 --> 02:47:38,400 Speaker 1: are driving prius Is and uh and this is revenge 2811 02:47:38,440 --> 02:47:43,360 Speaker 1: in the nerds and the nerds one big and um. 2812 02:47:44,000 --> 02:47:47,440 Speaker 1: And then they started inviting me into into deals and said, 2813 02:47:47,480 --> 02:47:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, you want to invest here. And I started 2814 02:47:49,720 --> 02:47:57,000 Speaker 1: investing here and then invest in there. You're listening to 2815 02:47:57,080 --> 02:48:00,240 Speaker 1: my conversation with Director of Creative Services and spot By 2816 02:48:00,600 --> 02:48:03,600 Speaker 1: Troy Carter, recorded live at the Music Media Summit in 2817 02:48:03,640 --> 02:48:08,840 Speaker 1: Santa Barbara, California. I hope you're enjoying listening to this 2818 02:48:09,000 --> 02:48:11,920 Speaker 1: episode of the Bob Left Sets podcast. If you want 2819 02:48:11,959 --> 02:48:14,200 Speaker 1: to listen to sound bites from the interviews and see 2820 02:48:14,280 --> 02:48:16,840 Speaker 1: some of my guests, check it out it at tuned 2821 02:48:16,879 --> 02:48:20,160 Speaker 1: in on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Now we're of my 2822 02:48:20,280 --> 02:48:23,920 Speaker 1: conversation with the director of Creative Services at Spotify, Troy 2823 02:48:24,040 --> 02:48:27,240 Speaker 1: Carter on the Bob Left Sets podcast. You were pretty 2824 02:48:27,320 --> 02:48:29,520 Speaker 1: much the first person, certainly in the music business who 2825 02:48:29,680 --> 02:48:33,120 Speaker 1: was investing. You know what, because I went in and 2826 02:48:34,680 --> 02:48:39,160 Speaker 1: I would probably go to the valley at least twice 2827 02:48:39,200 --> 02:48:43,160 Speaker 1: a week, so I would be in l A three 2828 02:48:43,240 --> 02:48:45,800 Speaker 1: days a week, and i'd be in San Francisco and 2829 02:48:45,840 --> 02:48:48,760 Speaker 1: Palo Alto two days a week, and I would start 2830 02:48:48,840 --> 02:48:52,480 Speaker 1: parking myself and people's offices and setting up shop in 2831 02:48:52,520 --> 02:48:55,400 Speaker 1: their offices during the day and um. And then when 2832 02:48:55,440 --> 02:48:58,840 Speaker 1: I remembered it was one of the guys I met 2833 02:48:59,080 --> 02:49:02,680 Speaker 1: was it was a guy named Shervin Pishavar and Shervin 2834 02:49:03,240 --> 02:49:06,879 Speaker 1: Um he had just sold his business and he started 2835 02:49:07,520 --> 02:49:10,560 Speaker 1: um investing at a firm called Menlo. And he caught 2836 02:49:10,600 --> 02:49:12,160 Speaker 1: me up and he said, I want to do this 2837 02:49:12,360 --> 02:49:15,240 Speaker 1: thing like this sort of uh, we're gonna be like this, 2838 02:49:15,480 --> 02:49:18,000 Speaker 1: this sort of Jedi investment group, and I just want 2839 02:49:18,040 --> 02:49:21,280 Speaker 1: you to be one of the Jedis and um, and 2840 02:49:21,400 --> 02:49:24,640 Speaker 1: he caught me up about I think Warby Parker was 2841 02:49:24,720 --> 02:49:26,840 Speaker 1: one of the was it the first deal that Shervin 2842 02:49:27,160 --> 02:49:30,800 Speaker 1: Um asked me about and then um the second deal 2843 02:49:31,240 --> 02:49:34,360 Speaker 1: was was Uber. But then he said, well, you know 2844 02:49:34,440 --> 02:49:36,200 Speaker 1: I want to do I want to start putting l 2845 02:49:36,280 --> 02:49:39,880 Speaker 1: A people into into the deals. Can you help introduce 2846 02:49:40,000 --> 02:49:42,600 Speaker 1: me to some people in in l A. And Um, 2847 02:49:42,720 --> 02:49:45,440 Speaker 1: so I started introducing them to to some people in 2848 02:49:45,680 --> 02:49:47,560 Speaker 1: l A. And we put some l A people into 2849 02:49:47,640 --> 02:49:50,120 Speaker 1: the Uber deal and then kind of started building this 2850 02:49:50,280 --> 02:49:54,560 Speaker 1: thing that sort of bridge between San Francisco and and 2851 02:49:54,760 --> 02:49:58,760 Speaker 1: in l A. Did you get compensated for establishing those relationships? Uh, 2852 02:49:59,160 --> 02:50:02,360 Speaker 1: just as an invest or, so so just from my 2853 02:50:02,640 --> 02:50:08,800 Speaker 1: my my compensation was Shervan would put me into he 2854 02:50:09,400 --> 02:50:12,520 Speaker 1: people would put me into more deals, and then the 2855 02:50:12,640 --> 02:50:14,840 Speaker 1: way And this is the other thing I loved about 2856 02:50:14,879 --> 02:50:17,720 Speaker 1: the valley that was so different from the music business. 2857 02:50:18,320 --> 02:50:22,200 Speaker 1: The music business is zero sum. It's like some in 2858 02:50:22,400 --> 02:50:25,360 Speaker 1: order for you to win, somebody has to lose. And 2859 02:50:25,480 --> 02:50:30,160 Speaker 1: then when and then the structure of a record label, um, 2860 02:50:30,400 --> 02:50:33,880 Speaker 1: whenever there's sort of a windfall, only the people at 2861 02:50:33,920 --> 02:50:37,160 Speaker 1: the very very top of the pyramid get get wealthy 2862 02:50:37,760 --> 02:50:42,160 Speaker 1: and nobody else gets gets wealthy essentially, and um and 2863 02:50:42,280 --> 02:50:45,760 Speaker 1: in technology and an investment. The way it works is 2864 02:50:45,840 --> 02:50:50,199 Speaker 1: the opposite, because you you you want the healthiest syndicate 2865 02:50:50,360 --> 02:50:53,920 Speaker 1: around the deal so that the entrepreneur and the company 2866 02:50:54,000 --> 02:50:58,640 Speaker 1: has the best chance of success. So if I know 2867 02:50:58,959 --> 02:51:03,360 Speaker 1: that this person here and this person here and this 2868 02:51:03,520 --> 02:51:06,280 Speaker 1: person here could be very helpful, I want them, then 2869 02:51:06,400 --> 02:51:09,199 Speaker 1: I want them in the deal because I'm gonna do better. 2870 02:51:09,640 --> 02:51:12,160 Speaker 1: And so that's how that's how this sort of is 2871 02:51:12,160 --> 02:51:15,879 Speaker 1: a network effect. So like you know, Rocking, I would 2872 02:51:15,920 --> 02:51:18,800 Speaker 1: put rock Nation into deals, then they would put me 2873 02:51:18,840 --> 02:51:22,080 Speaker 1: into deals. Um you know, Scooter and I start putting 2874 02:51:22,240 --> 02:51:24,760 Speaker 1: each other into deals. Gayo, Siri and I started putting 2875 02:51:24,800 --> 02:51:27,720 Speaker 1: each other into deals. Um you know, I remember it 2876 02:51:27,800 --> 02:51:30,480 Speaker 1: is funny enough. One of our companies, one of the 2877 02:51:30,560 --> 02:51:33,760 Speaker 1: first companies I invested in um it was a company 2878 02:51:33,840 --> 02:51:37,440 Speaker 1: called zim Ride that came to my office and we 2879 02:51:37,640 --> 02:51:40,920 Speaker 1: invested and they would calm work out of our offices 2880 02:51:41,080 --> 02:51:45,480 Speaker 1: in l A and then um after Uber launch, the 2881 02:51:45,600 --> 02:51:48,440 Speaker 1: founder caught me up and he's and he said, I 2882 02:51:48,560 --> 02:51:51,080 Speaker 1: want to see can you connect me with Live Nation 2883 02:51:51,640 --> 02:51:54,040 Speaker 1: because they have these festivals and we have this our 2884 02:51:54,120 --> 02:51:55,920 Speaker 1: car pooling business. I want to see if we can 2885 02:51:56,000 --> 02:51:59,080 Speaker 1: car pool people back and forth so I called up 2886 02:51:59,120 --> 02:52:02,960 Speaker 1: micro Rapino UM. Michael was great, he did the deal 2887 02:52:03,440 --> 02:52:05,880 Speaker 1: and Michael put you know, put some money into the company. 2888 02:52:06,360 --> 02:52:08,960 Speaker 1: And fast forward, that company went from zim Ride to 2889 02:52:09,000 --> 02:52:11,879 Speaker 1: become in Lift. So you know, and this is eight 2890 02:52:12,000 --> 02:52:14,520 Speaker 1: years ago. So in terms of that that sort of 2891 02:52:14,680 --> 02:52:18,920 Speaker 1: value at that particular time seven or eight years ago 2892 02:52:19,520 --> 02:52:22,320 Speaker 1: and when it becomes now, that's how you That's so 2893 02:52:22,400 --> 02:52:25,400 Speaker 1: when you say the compensation, is that sort of flow 2894 02:52:25,600 --> 02:52:28,520 Speaker 1: that that that that happens. But I'm not asking anybody 2895 02:52:28,640 --> 02:52:32,080 Speaker 1: for money or anything in return. In your office, you 2896 02:52:32,160 --> 02:52:34,360 Speaker 1: have a whole wall of the companies you've invested in 2897 02:52:34,760 --> 02:52:36,640 Speaker 1: at this point in time. How many companies do you 2898 02:52:36,680 --> 02:52:40,240 Speaker 1: think you've invested in? UM is probably about a hundred 2899 02:52:40,320 --> 02:52:43,400 Speaker 1: and twenty. And if a hundred and twenty, how many 2900 02:52:43,480 --> 02:52:51,240 Speaker 1: went completely bust? Uh, completely bust? Probably thirty or forty? 2901 02:52:51,400 --> 02:52:54,480 Speaker 1: Probably third about thirty I would say, are completely bust, 2902 02:52:57,280 --> 02:53:03,600 Speaker 1: probably forty. I would put him in in and a 2903 02:53:03,760 --> 02:53:07,320 Speaker 1: third a third and a third. You got you got winner, 2904 02:53:07,400 --> 02:53:13,800 Speaker 1: you got winners, neutral and and dogs. Okay, so you're 2905 02:53:13,840 --> 02:53:16,720 Speaker 1: doing this, You're done with Gaga, and then you'd like 2906 02:53:16,800 --> 02:53:19,240 Speaker 1: record label. I might just have a record label, right, 2907 02:53:19,760 --> 02:53:23,200 Speaker 1: and then you have Making Trainer. Okay, the interesting thing 2908 02:53:23,280 --> 02:53:26,199 Speaker 1: from the outside observer, when you're involved with Making Trainer, 2909 02:53:26,680 --> 02:53:30,680 Speaker 1: she's everywhere and successful, and since you've been gone, she 2910 02:53:30,800 --> 02:53:34,400 Speaker 1: has not achieved that level of success, showing that your ability. 2911 02:53:34,720 --> 02:53:36,879 Speaker 1: But at what point do you you were an investor 2912 02:53:37,000 --> 02:53:39,600 Speaker 1: in Spotify, at what point do you wake up and say, 2913 02:53:40,000 --> 02:53:42,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna cross the street from being a manager to 2914 02:53:42,959 --> 02:53:47,840 Speaker 1: working for Spotify. So I invested in Spotify, and I 2915 02:53:47,879 --> 02:53:50,600 Speaker 1: think it was like two thousand and eleven, two thousand eleven, 2916 02:53:51,280 --> 02:53:55,320 Speaker 1: and UM and Daniel and I we we ended up. 2917 02:53:57,640 --> 02:54:01,080 Speaker 1: We we didn't initially meet when I'm used it and 2918 02:54:01,160 --> 02:54:03,320 Speaker 1: then I think it had to be about six or 2919 02:54:03,400 --> 02:54:07,600 Speaker 1: seven months later. UM as a group called called Charity 2920 02:54:07,640 --> 02:54:10,600 Speaker 1: Water out of New York, a guy named Scott Harrison. 2921 02:54:10,800 --> 02:54:14,160 Speaker 1: He put together a group of probably fifteen or twenty 2922 02:54:14,240 --> 02:54:17,400 Speaker 1: founders to go to spend a week and a half 2923 02:54:17,520 --> 02:54:22,879 Speaker 1: in Ethiopia and UM and basically you you build um 2924 02:54:23,280 --> 02:54:27,560 Speaker 1: wells and different villages through throughout Ethiopia. And Daniel was 2925 02:54:27,640 --> 02:54:35,040 Speaker 1: on that trip. And when you when you're in uh 2926 02:54:35,160 --> 02:54:39,680 Speaker 1: and and suv for four hours with somebody going through 2927 02:54:39,800 --> 02:54:43,760 Speaker 1: villages and you know, you're you're seeing you know some 2928 02:54:45,400 --> 02:54:48,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's incredible. It is very emotional, 2929 02:54:49,440 --> 02:54:52,040 Speaker 1: you know, kind of visiting these different places like just 2930 02:54:52,440 --> 02:54:56,480 Speaker 1: in but like if not even in a sad way, 2931 02:54:56,640 --> 02:55:00,640 Speaker 1: but it's like the people they are fa tastic. But 2932 02:55:02,080 --> 02:55:04,320 Speaker 1: he and I didn't meet sitting across the desk from 2933 02:55:04,360 --> 02:55:08,080 Speaker 1: each other, and I think that connected us in a 2934 02:55:08,160 --> 02:55:11,720 Speaker 1: way where we got to know each other personally before 2935 02:55:11,800 --> 02:55:15,640 Speaker 1: we did any sort of business together. And so when 2936 02:55:16,480 --> 02:55:19,840 Speaker 1: Spotify was, you know, had come to America, I would, 2937 02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:22,400 Speaker 1: you know, he and I would talk strategy, whether it 2938 02:55:22,680 --> 02:55:25,880 Speaker 1: was people who were holding back albums from you know, 2939 02:55:26,200 --> 02:55:29,959 Speaker 1: from the from the service, you know, some communication strategy, 2940 02:55:30,240 --> 02:55:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, some introductions to managers and things like that. 2941 02:55:33,560 --> 02:55:35,440 Speaker 1: But every time he would come to l A, he 2942 02:55:35,520 --> 02:55:37,440 Speaker 1: and I would spend a bunch of time together. And 2943 02:55:38,120 --> 02:55:40,560 Speaker 1: he had just become one of my favorite, my favorite people. 2944 02:55:41,160 --> 02:55:43,600 Speaker 1: And then, you know, a couple of years ago, you know, 2945 02:55:44,080 --> 02:55:48,119 Speaker 1: I was, I was so burned out from being a manager. 2946 02:55:48,520 --> 02:55:51,200 Speaker 1: And I've done it. I've done it for seventeen years 2947 02:55:52,000 --> 02:55:54,720 Speaker 1: and um and like you said, you know, Megan Trainer, 2948 02:55:54,840 --> 02:55:57,280 Speaker 1: Charlie Pooth and a few other clients you know where 2949 02:55:57,440 --> 02:56:00,160 Speaker 1: like my my the last clients on the roster or 2950 02:56:00,920 --> 02:56:04,040 Speaker 1: and I saw, you know, I get I get signs 2951 02:56:04,080 --> 02:56:06,960 Speaker 1: in my life. It's almost like gott to pull the 2952 02:56:07,080 --> 02:56:09,840 Speaker 1: rug up from under me sometimes, like you know, but 2953 02:56:09,959 --> 02:56:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, if if I don't want to make the 2954 02:56:11,600 --> 02:56:15,960 Speaker 1: decision myself, and I saw I started to see some 2955 02:56:16,120 --> 02:56:20,120 Speaker 1: of the cracks and Adam Factory's business. Um, I started 2956 02:56:20,160 --> 02:56:23,360 Speaker 1: to look at the future of like the management business 2957 02:56:23,440 --> 02:56:26,440 Speaker 1: for myself. And I I wasn't getting up in the 2958 02:56:26,560 --> 02:56:34,000 Speaker 1: morning excited. Um and you know, to to the amount 2959 02:56:34,120 --> 02:56:39,360 Speaker 1: of I don't I don't phone it in, Like I 2960 02:56:39,520 --> 02:56:41,360 Speaker 1: just don't have the thing where I can phone it in. 2961 02:56:41,720 --> 02:56:45,640 Speaker 1: And if I'm working for a client, I'm putting my 2962 02:56:46,080 --> 02:56:50,000 Speaker 1: soul into it. And when you put your soul into something, 2963 02:56:50,280 --> 02:56:53,080 Speaker 1: and you know, you get punched in the gut and 2964 02:56:53,200 --> 02:56:56,400 Speaker 1: it's like you know, you're not appreciated, and you know 2965 02:56:56,560 --> 02:57:00,080 Speaker 1: it's like you know, sometimes you know, some clients to 2966 02:57:00,160 --> 02:57:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, you you you got to drag them across 2967 02:57:02,600 --> 02:57:05,680 Speaker 1: the finish line and you gotta explain to him why 2968 02:57:05,879 --> 02:57:09,080 Speaker 1: should you shouldn't cancel a show, or you should you 2969 02:57:09,160 --> 02:57:11,200 Speaker 1: should show up one time, or you should do that 2970 02:57:11,840 --> 02:57:15,080 Speaker 1: I just was ready to do something different. And Daniel 2971 02:57:15,120 --> 02:57:18,600 Speaker 1: and I started having these conversations. And I remember I 2972 02:57:18,600 --> 02:57:20,800 Speaker 1: was sitting at the Soho house. He and I were 2973 02:57:20,840 --> 02:57:24,160 Speaker 1: working on a project together. Um I was. I was 2974 02:57:24,240 --> 02:57:27,120 Speaker 1: testing something out for him on on the Spotify platform. 2975 02:57:27,840 --> 02:57:32,280 Speaker 1: And we were at the Soho house and we started 2976 02:57:32,360 --> 02:57:36,199 Speaker 1: talking about what this sort of creator services thing would 2977 02:57:36,240 --> 02:57:38,720 Speaker 1: look would look like, you know, sort of from the 2978 02:57:38,760 --> 02:57:43,480 Speaker 1: outside end, and um, and we started having one of 2979 02:57:43,560 --> 02:57:49,120 Speaker 1: those what ifs conversations, and I remember, you know, I 2980 02:57:49,840 --> 02:57:52,320 Speaker 1: talked to my wife about it. I got cold feet. 2981 02:57:52,400 --> 02:57:54,480 Speaker 1: Like I had agreed to it, then I got cold 2982 02:57:54,520 --> 02:57:56,039 Speaker 1: feet and I told him, you know, I don't think 2983 02:57:56,040 --> 02:57:58,119 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it, And you know, we went back 2984 02:57:58,200 --> 02:58:03,000 Speaker 1: and forth and no saggeration. Within a six week period, 2985 02:58:03,760 --> 02:58:07,840 Speaker 1: I had wound you know, I had wound down Atom 2986 02:58:07,920 --> 02:58:12,760 Speaker 1: Factory and was in Spotify about six six I've lived 2987 02:58:12,760 --> 02:58:14,880 Speaker 1: with you through a lot of challenges of Spotify, but 2988 02:58:15,000 --> 02:58:19,000 Speaker 1: now streaming is one. Revenues are up. What you are 2989 02:58:19,040 --> 02:58:24,000 Speaker 1: the major challenges you're facing now. Um, you know, I 2990 02:58:24,120 --> 02:58:27,360 Speaker 1: think so you know this the streaming business. I think 2991 02:58:27,400 --> 02:58:30,160 Speaker 1: we're still in its infancy right now. So you know, 2992 02:58:30,240 --> 02:58:33,920 Speaker 1: I think you have some markets that are mature, like 2993 02:58:34,080 --> 02:58:39,040 Speaker 1: Sweden's very like a very mature market. Um. America to 2994 02:58:39,160 --> 02:58:42,640 Speaker 1: me is still a young streaming market. Um. You look 2995 02:58:42,720 --> 02:58:46,160 Speaker 1: at places like India that's still you know, young, and 2996 02:58:46,440 --> 02:58:49,760 Speaker 1: what's gonna happen in and sort of Africa, um, and 2997 02:58:49,920 --> 02:58:52,400 Speaker 1: you know some of the other markets as well. I 2998 02:58:52,560 --> 02:58:56,640 Speaker 1: think it's I think in terms, I think what we 2999 02:58:56,760 --> 02:58:59,800 Speaker 1: had this is more of an industry thing. It's so 3000 02:59:00,000 --> 02:59:08,800 Speaker 1: out of defining as companies what our relationship is with 3001 02:59:09,720 --> 02:59:11,880 Speaker 1: the rest of the with with the rest of the industry, 3002 02:59:12,400 --> 02:59:16,920 Speaker 1: because you know, I definitely foresee you know what, what 3003 02:59:18,240 --> 02:59:21,560 Speaker 1: what all of our roles are right now are gonna 3004 02:59:21,600 --> 02:59:25,800 Speaker 1: look much much different over the next ten years, meaning 3005 02:59:26,480 --> 02:59:28,840 Speaker 1: what it is to be a record label, what it 3006 02:59:28,959 --> 02:59:31,880 Speaker 1: is to be a talent manager, what it means to 3007 02:59:31,920 --> 02:59:34,440 Speaker 1: be a promoter, you know, and what it means to 3008 02:59:34,480 --> 02:59:36,800 Speaker 1: be an artist by the way, so all of this 3009 02:59:37,000 --> 02:59:40,160 Speaker 1: is gonna look different. So I think just the thing 3010 02:59:40,360 --> 02:59:46,680 Speaker 1: is being able to um get who gets to the future, 3011 02:59:46,720 --> 02:59:52,200 Speaker 1: Who gets to the future the fastest? Okay, um, I 3012 02:59:52,280 --> 02:59:54,879 Speaker 1: got a number of questions. Let me think of the one. 3013 02:59:55,280 --> 02:59:58,840 Speaker 1: Let's go to the one that everybody is concerned about playlists. 3014 02:59:59,240 --> 03:00:01,360 Speaker 1: What are we here in the street. We hear the 3015 03:00:01,440 --> 03:00:05,359 Speaker 1: individual playlist or is being squeezed out by the major labels. 3016 03:00:05,840 --> 03:00:07,840 Speaker 1: We hear that what do you mean by that when 3017 03:00:07,840 --> 03:00:10,560 Speaker 1: you say that? They were saying that, you know that 3018 03:00:10,680 --> 03:00:14,760 Speaker 1: it's the major label playlists who are major labels playlists, 3019 03:00:14,800 --> 03:00:18,080 Speaker 1: and the Spotify playlists are getting most of the streams, 3020 03:00:18,600 --> 03:00:22,760 Speaker 1: and that the the major labels have power on Spotify 3021 03:00:23,080 --> 03:00:26,959 Speaker 1: akin to their power at radio with their promotion teams. 3022 03:00:27,520 --> 03:00:30,000 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't agree at all, because 3023 03:00:30,080 --> 03:00:32,080 Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm not saying that. This is 3024 03:00:32,160 --> 03:00:34,400 Speaker 1: my point. That was what people say, yeah, yeah, and 3025 03:00:34,560 --> 03:00:37,039 Speaker 1: which I which I don't, I don't agree, And um, 3026 03:00:37,240 --> 03:00:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, and I talked to the indie labels all 3027 03:00:39,240 --> 03:00:42,720 Speaker 1: the time, and you know, it's it's funny because you know, 3028 03:00:43,200 --> 03:00:46,760 Speaker 1: the indies like people that have this sort of big 3029 03:00:46,920 --> 03:00:49,760 Speaker 1: narrative out there. And then you know, and then I 3030 03:00:49,840 --> 03:00:53,280 Speaker 1: asked him a simple question, are the indie labels doing 3031 03:00:53,360 --> 03:00:55,920 Speaker 1: better you know now that that Spotify is here than 3032 03:00:56,080 --> 03:00:59,840 Speaker 1: than they were before? And and uh, unanimously to answers, 3033 03:01:00,240 --> 03:01:03,160 Speaker 1: s you know, because the indies are doing are doing 3034 03:01:03,280 --> 03:01:06,360 Speaker 1: much better now. Um, I think, and as as far 3035 03:01:06,440 --> 03:01:11,959 Speaker 1: as playlists are concerned, So just we we have forty 3036 03:01:12,680 --> 03:01:19,560 Speaker 1: playlists owned and operated by Spotify, all different types of 3037 03:01:19,879 --> 03:01:23,560 Speaker 1: niche like niche playlists as well. So we do have 3038 03:01:23,760 --> 03:01:27,279 Speaker 1: the sort of flagships to you know, Today's top Pits, 3039 03:01:27,400 --> 03:01:31,400 Speaker 1: Hot Country, Viva Latino, Rap, Caviare, R and B like 3040 03:01:31,560 --> 03:01:34,360 Speaker 1: all of those flagships, but then you've got a ton 3041 03:01:34,520 --> 03:01:37,640 Speaker 1: of other sort of mid tier and feeder playlists that 3042 03:01:37,720 --> 03:01:43,320 Speaker 1: kind of feed up into them for most of the 3043 03:01:43,520 --> 03:01:47,240 Speaker 1: artists that that that we're talking about, we're talking about 3044 03:01:47,360 --> 03:01:50,400 Speaker 1: artists who will who would never get on radio. By 3045 03:01:50,440 --> 03:01:53,520 Speaker 1: the way, like we know how Top forty works, you 3046 03:01:53,640 --> 03:01:56,119 Speaker 1: better have a huge budget if you want to get 3047 03:01:56,160 --> 03:01:58,720 Speaker 1: if you want to take a record all formats, be 3048 03:01:58,879 --> 03:02:01,720 Speaker 1: prepared to have a half a million dollars to to 3049 03:02:01,840 --> 03:02:04,640 Speaker 1: go all formats to get a top ten record at 3050 03:02:04,760 --> 03:02:07,720 Speaker 1: radio um and so, and you need you need a 3051 03:02:07,800 --> 03:02:10,120 Speaker 1: real system to be to be able to be able 3052 03:02:10,160 --> 03:02:12,760 Speaker 1: to to to to do that. And then you have 3053 03:02:12,879 --> 03:02:14,960 Speaker 1: to have a certain type of record with a certain 3054 03:02:15,040 --> 03:02:19,119 Speaker 1: type of sound. And so if you're looking at Top 3055 03:02:19,240 --> 03:02:24,440 Speaker 1: forties specifically, you figure it's let's call it twenty five 3056 03:02:24,560 --> 03:02:28,720 Speaker 1: slots and then let's call it twenty artists that are 3057 03:02:28,720 --> 03:02:32,400 Speaker 1: gonna fulfill those those twenty those twenty slots, and you know, 3058 03:02:32,480 --> 03:02:34,640 Speaker 1: because of the artists who are gonna have multiple songs 3059 03:02:34,800 --> 03:02:40,560 Speaker 1: and in those slots. So you got uh one tenth 3060 03:02:40,680 --> 03:02:43,320 Speaker 1: of a percent, and then you got the one percent, 3061 03:02:43,480 --> 03:02:45,560 Speaker 1: and you know, then then then it kind of breaks 3062 03:02:45,600 --> 03:02:49,120 Speaker 1: down from there. So I think the sort of ecosystem 3063 03:02:49,200 --> 03:02:53,680 Speaker 1: of our playlist gives a fair shot to the entire 3064 03:02:53,800 --> 03:02:56,280 Speaker 1: industry at that at that point. And what what I 3065 03:02:56,400 --> 03:02:58,800 Speaker 1: the the one thing I like what I love about 3066 03:02:59,280 --> 03:03:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, spot if I is that people can't figure 3067 03:03:03,560 --> 03:03:08,080 Speaker 1: it out. You can't. There's no it's no hype. So 3068 03:03:08,200 --> 03:03:11,000 Speaker 1: it's not you can't come in there and and and 3069 03:03:11,200 --> 03:03:14,440 Speaker 1: sort of hype your record to get us to put 3070 03:03:14,520 --> 03:03:18,240 Speaker 1: it on on on on a playlist. The data doesn't lie. 3071 03:03:18,879 --> 03:03:21,160 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, okay, but if you talk 3072 03:03:21,240 --> 03:03:22,840 Speaker 1: to like Daniel Glass, he comes to l A, you'll 3073 03:03:22,840 --> 03:03:25,120 Speaker 1: hang out at Apple Music, will go to Spotify. To 3074 03:03:25,240 --> 03:03:29,880 Speaker 1: what degree is the personal relationship important? Per Personal relationships 3075 03:03:29,920 --> 03:03:32,480 Speaker 1: are always going to be important, right, but they're only 3076 03:03:32,520 --> 03:03:36,879 Speaker 1: gonna be important to a certain extent. Because as much 3077 03:03:36,920 --> 03:03:40,400 Speaker 1: as I love Daniel and if Daniel doesn't walk in 3078 03:03:40,440 --> 03:03:43,039 Speaker 1: the door with a great record, Daniel's record is gonna 3079 03:03:43,040 --> 03:03:47,000 Speaker 1: be treated like everybody else's record. Essentially lucky enough, you know, 3080 03:03:47,280 --> 03:03:50,240 Speaker 1: Daniel walks in with Jade Bird and she becomes one 3081 03:03:50,280 --> 03:03:53,360 Speaker 1: of my favorite artists and we're carrying a jay Bird 3082 03:03:53,400 --> 03:03:56,320 Speaker 1: flag throughout throughout the building or whatever. But with that 3083 03:03:56,440 --> 03:04:01,039 Speaker 1: being said, a lot of the stuff that major labels 3084 03:04:01,080 --> 03:04:05,320 Speaker 1: are signing right now aren't coming through any label. They're 3085 03:04:05,360 --> 03:04:10,160 Speaker 1: coming through Spotify. So it's we were it's between our editors, 3086 03:04:10,920 --> 03:04:15,440 Speaker 1: um sort of looking at blogs, living on SoundCloud, you know, 3087 03:04:15,680 --> 03:04:17,959 Speaker 1: sort of digging in the crates, kind of finding new 3088 03:04:18,040 --> 03:04:21,160 Speaker 1: stuff because they want to discover things. I get calls 3089 03:04:21,240 --> 03:04:25,360 Speaker 1: from our editors basically saying, um, hey hey, Troy, I 3090 03:04:25,440 --> 03:04:28,720 Speaker 1: found this record. Um, we gotta they gotta figure out 3091 03:04:28,760 --> 03:04:31,560 Speaker 1: to aggregator to put it through because there's no record label, 3092 03:04:31,879 --> 03:04:34,959 Speaker 1: and then this act will end up with fifty million 3093 03:04:35,040 --> 03:04:37,280 Speaker 1: streams and they'll end up with a record deal and 3094 03:04:37,400 --> 03:04:39,920 Speaker 1: then the labels you know, are are signing them. So 3095 03:04:40,640 --> 03:04:43,640 Speaker 1: that's not a lot of the rap caviare stuff is 3096 03:04:43,800 --> 03:04:47,120 Speaker 1: with stuff that our editors found. Even on the pop side. 3097 03:04:47,520 --> 03:04:51,800 Speaker 1: Mike Mike baggage finds things and then he puts it 3098 03:04:51,879 --> 03:04:54,760 Speaker 1: into the pop playlist and then they end up getting signed. 3099 03:04:55,480 --> 03:04:59,840 Speaker 1: So if we what do you see the future, Because 3100 03:05:00,000 --> 03:05:01,800 Speaker 1: we can go on Spotify right now, we can see 3101 03:05:01,840 --> 03:05:04,640 Speaker 1: the Spotify Top fifty changes every day. We can see 3102 03:05:04,640 --> 03:05:07,560 Speaker 1: the number of streams and except for the Superstar of 3103 03:05:07,600 --> 03:05:11,720 Speaker 1: superstars with one single, radio is way behind. They won't 3104 03:05:11,760 --> 03:05:14,840 Speaker 1: add multiple tracks, they're off the months. Find what do 3105 03:05:14,920 --> 03:05:17,680 Speaker 1: you foresee the future? There? You know, I think I 3106 03:05:17,800 --> 03:05:20,800 Speaker 1: think radio's in trouble, you know readio radio as we know, 3107 03:05:20,920 --> 03:05:24,400 Speaker 1: it's in trouble, and I think it's inevitable because the 3108 03:05:24,560 --> 03:05:28,720 Speaker 1: only way from radio that you make your business better 3109 03:05:29,680 --> 03:05:34,720 Speaker 1: is to build the uh an experience that's worse for 3110 03:05:34,800 --> 03:05:38,959 Speaker 1: the consumer, meaning you know, you gotta put more ads 3111 03:05:39,480 --> 03:05:42,440 Speaker 1: into and into into the product. So you know, I 3112 03:05:42,560 --> 03:05:44,320 Speaker 1: even know when if I go and out and I 3113 03:05:44,440 --> 03:05:47,520 Speaker 1: turn on radio, is a high probability that is going 3114 03:05:47,560 --> 03:05:49,520 Speaker 1: to be commercials on so soon as soon as I 3115 03:05:49,640 --> 03:05:52,280 Speaker 1: turn it on. So that's one sort of friction point, 3116 03:05:52,440 --> 03:05:54,920 Speaker 1: you know, out of the gate. Then the second friction 3117 03:05:55,040 --> 03:05:59,520 Speaker 1: point is radio relies so much on research because they 3118 03:05:59,600 --> 03:06:02,040 Speaker 1: want to do they need to de risk it or whatever. 3119 03:06:02,560 --> 03:06:06,520 Speaker 1: So you know, it's not like when uh DJs and 3120 03:06:06,600 --> 03:06:11,200 Speaker 1: programmers could make independent decisions before, and they felt something 3121 03:06:11,240 --> 03:06:12,760 Speaker 1: and they could put it in, they could put it 3122 03:06:12,840 --> 03:06:15,720 Speaker 1: in right away. A lot of the radio stations are 3123 03:06:15,720 --> 03:06:18,360 Speaker 1: looking at Spotify data and kind of using that to 3124 03:06:18,520 --> 03:06:21,600 Speaker 1: decide which which records they're they're gonna put in, So 3125 03:06:21,760 --> 03:06:25,400 Speaker 1: by the time they hear that, that record is old 3126 03:06:25,480 --> 03:06:29,360 Speaker 1: on Spotify. So, you know, so for my kids who 3127 03:06:29,560 --> 03:06:31,720 Speaker 1: get in the car and they're you know, going on 3128 03:06:31,840 --> 03:06:34,840 Speaker 1: Spotify and YouTube to kind of consume their music, if 3129 03:06:34,879 --> 03:06:37,560 Speaker 1: they turn on Top forty radio, whatever they're hearing is 3130 03:06:37,560 --> 03:06:40,200 Speaker 1: already months old by that time. So I think you 3131 03:06:40,440 --> 03:06:44,520 Speaker 1: lose a consumer at that point or it starts feeling like, um, 3132 03:06:45,080 --> 03:06:48,200 Speaker 1: almost like an adult Top forty because you know, you're 3133 03:06:48,360 --> 03:06:51,080 Speaker 1: you're playing old music. So I think that's a big 3134 03:06:51,240 --> 03:06:55,320 Speaker 1: I think this is a gap and for us, we 3135 03:06:55,560 --> 03:06:57,720 Speaker 1: can't you know, and I think this is a big, 3136 03:06:57,959 --> 03:07:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, sort of gap and friction point it you know, 3137 03:07:00,680 --> 03:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Spotify and and and frontline record labels, we can't keep 3138 03:07:06,200 --> 03:07:08,720 Speaker 1: your record in while you're going for your radio plan 3139 03:07:09,160 --> 03:07:13,000 Speaker 1: because our consumer has already moved on to your second 3140 03:07:13,080 --> 03:07:16,040 Speaker 1: or third single. By the time you know, you're getting 3141 03:07:16,080 --> 03:07:18,920 Speaker 1: added at at radio, so you know, so I think 3142 03:07:19,000 --> 03:07:22,879 Speaker 1: that's the part that from an industry perspective, I think 3143 03:07:23,040 --> 03:07:25,800 Speaker 1: on the label side, they have to figure out what's 3144 03:07:25,800 --> 03:07:30,080 Speaker 1: gonna be what's important to you, you know, being current 3145 03:07:30,160 --> 03:07:32,400 Speaker 1: with the consumers and being able to have you know, 3146 03:07:32,560 --> 03:07:36,720 Speaker 1: songs within the within these playlists, or you know, getting 3147 03:07:36,760 --> 03:07:39,480 Speaker 1: added at top forty. So we'll see how to and 3148 03:07:39,560 --> 03:07:42,280 Speaker 1: if we go on the US Top fifty, it is 3149 03:07:42,520 --> 03:07:45,760 Speaker 1: very much urban slash hip hop. So the question that's 3150 03:07:45,800 --> 03:07:52,760 Speaker 1: obviously illustrating demand, but to what degree does Spotify have 3151 03:07:52,840 --> 03:07:56,440 Speaker 1: a responsibility to give attention to other formats? Let me 3152 03:07:56,520 --> 03:07:58,520 Speaker 1: just say for myself, let me give an experience. I 3153 03:07:58,600 --> 03:07:59,920 Speaker 1: want to know what's going on, So I'll go to 3154 03:08:00,080 --> 03:08:02,760 Speaker 1: Spotify Top fifty. I'll listen. Then if I think of 3155 03:08:02,800 --> 03:08:05,840 Speaker 1: all the other genres, country, electronic, it's a lot of 3156 03:08:05,959 --> 03:08:08,600 Speaker 1: work and there are a lot of acts today forget that. 3157 03:08:08,959 --> 03:08:11,040 Speaker 1: You know, people don't seem to understand that you get 3158 03:08:11,080 --> 03:08:13,640 Speaker 1: paid based on whether people stream you or not. But 3159 03:08:13,920 --> 03:08:17,720 Speaker 1: is is are we purely speaking to the public's demand, 3160 03:08:18,280 --> 03:08:21,600 Speaker 1: or is there any way or is there responsibility for 3161 03:08:21,840 --> 03:08:25,480 Speaker 1: Spotify to boost other formats. So so and as a 3162 03:08:25,800 --> 03:08:29,760 Speaker 1: really really really good question, so where um so, But 3163 03:08:29,959 --> 03:08:32,240 Speaker 1: so we'll separate it for a second. So when you 3164 03:08:32,280 --> 03:08:35,440 Speaker 1: look at the top fifty, that's just demand, right, So 3165 03:08:36,320 --> 03:08:40,760 Speaker 1: that is that is the pulse of what people on 3166 03:08:40,879 --> 03:08:44,320 Speaker 1: our platform are are actually listening to. Because the difference 3167 03:08:44,360 --> 03:08:48,440 Speaker 1: with radio is push, the difference with Spotify is pull. 3168 03:08:48,840 --> 03:08:52,200 Speaker 1: So that is consumers actually listening to that to that 3169 03:08:52,360 --> 03:08:55,080 Speaker 1: music because they can easily skip through it. Right, So 3170 03:08:55,240 --> 03:08:58,080 Speaker 1: this is what this is urban. So urban hip hop 3171 03:08:58,720 --> 03:09:02,080 Speaker 1: is lead top forty right now in terms is pop 3172 03:09:02,200 --> 03:09:06,160 Speaker 1: music in terms of popularity UM if you look at 3173 03:09:06,240 --> 03:09:09,520 Speaker 1: you know, we talked last week we announced UM the 3174 03:09:10,280 --> 03:09:13,280 Speaker 1: new the new free app on on Spotify, and a 3175 03:09:13,360 --> 03:09:17,200 Speaker 1: lot of what we talked about was personalization because when 3176 03:09:18,480 --> 03:09:21,160 Speaker 1: the beauty of the beauty of of of data is 3177 03:09:21,240 --> 03:09:25,400 Speaker 1: being able to give everybody in this room a personalized experience. 3178 03:09:25,520 --> 03:09:28,960 Speaker 1: So and and that's that that was a that's a 3179 03:09:29,040 --> 03:09:32,240 Speaker 1: big friction point because if you're a country music fan 3180 03:09:32,920 --> 03:09:35,280 Speaker 1: and you show up and the first thing you see 3181 03:09:35,480 --> 03:09:38,640 Speaker 1: is is me goes you know in the platform, you 3182 03:09:38,760 --> 03:09:40,959 Speaker 1: might churn out at that point, or if you can't, 3183 03:09:41,560 --> 03:09:44,480 Speaker 1: or if you feel sort of it's almost like you're 3184 03:09:44,520 --> 03:09:47,280 Speaker 1: walking into a room and not feeling welcome, you know, 3185 03:09:47,520 --> 03:09:50,160 Speaker 1: So how do you make people feel welcome when they 3186 03:09:50,240 --> 03:09:52,320 Speaker 1: walk into that room. So a lot of the stuff 3187 03:09:52,360 --> 03:09:55,440 Speaker 1: that we're working on right now is built around personalization. 3188 03:09:56,000 --> 03:09:58,200 Speaker 1: So I think, what you what what people see in 3189 03:09:58,280 --> 03:10:01,520 Speaker 1: the in the new free app from the onboarding, we're gonna, 3190 03:10:01,560 --> 03:10:03,960 Speaker 1: we're gonna, you know, allow you to tell us about 3191 03:10:04,000 --> 03:10:07,680 Speaker 1: yourself and and so when you come to Spotify, how 3192 03:10:07,720 --> 03:10:11,240 Speaker 1: do we give you a personalized experience? And then um, 3193 03:10:11,440 --> 03:10:15,760 Speaker 1: but you know, it's almost like the personalized experience would 3194 03:10:15,760 --> 03:10:18,840 Speaker 1: be to a the A story and the B story 3195 03:10:19,040 --> 03:10:21,320 Speaker 1: is more to shared experience, you know. And I think 3196 03:10:21,480 --> 03:10:24,240 Speaker 1: right now it's a little bit of the opposite where 3197 03:10:24,680 --> 03:10:26,880 Speaker 1: it was in the past. It was the opposite where 3198 03:10:26,879 --> 03:10:30,600 Speaker 1: it was the shared story was for was out in front, 3199 03:10:31,040 --> 03:10:35,039 Speaker 1: and then the personalization was more in to discover weekly 3200 03:10:35,160 --> 03:10:42,400 Speaker 1: product and and things like that. We'll pause here for 3201 03:10:42,520 --> 03:10:45,320 Speaker 1: a brief moment and get right back to the director 3202 03:10:45,320 --> 03:10:51,280 Speaker 1: of Creative Services and Spotify, Troy Carter. As you probably know, 3203 03:10:52,000 --> 03:10:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm mainly a writer and you can read my work 3204 03:10:53,920 --> 03:10:56,720 Speaker 1: at left sets dot com if you sign up for 3205 03:10:56,760 --> 03:10:59,440 Speaker 1: the newsletter not only will you get my commentary, i'm music, 3206 03:10:59,520 --> 03:11:02,959 Speaker 1: tech and my life in general. You'll be the first 3207 03:11:03,000 --> 03:11:05,960 Speaker 1: to find out when we publish a new conversation. Go 3208 03:11:06,080 --> 03:11:09,800 Speaker 1: to left steps dot com and sign up now more. 3209 03:11:09,879 --> 03:11:12,760 Speaker 1: Were the director of creative services that Spotify. Troy Carter 3210 03:11:13,280 --> 03:11:17,959 Speaker 1: recorded live at the Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara, California. Okay, 3211 03:11:18,360 --> 03:11:21,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna open up to questions. Now. Two things, One 3212 03:11:21,120 --> 03:11:25,920 Speaker 1: wait for a mic, and to please ask a question 3213 03:11:26,000 --> 03:11:28,120 Speaker 1: as opposed to giving your opinion. We're certainly interested in 3214 03:11:28,160 --> 03:11:30,920 Speaker 1: your opinion, but everybody may not. It's certainly for dinner 3215 03:11:31,240 --> 03:11:34,720 Speaker 1: or other times. So I have Troy here, please make 3216 03:11:34,800 --> 03:11:41,360 Speaker 1: it a question. Since you're talking about personalization, so you're 3217 03:11:41,400 --> 03:11:46,760 Speaker 1: saying that you're getting receiving enough qualitative data to give somebody, 3218 03:11:47,400 --> 03:11:51,440 Speaker 1: uh human behavior personalization. That's that's how much data you 3219 03:11:51,480 --> 03:11:55,640 Speaker 1: guys are receiving too, to personalize get your face for 3220 03:11:55,800 --> 03:12:01,000 Speaker 1: that person exactly, exactly. So just understanding how people listening to, 3221 03:12:01,360 --> 03:12:05,680 Speaker 1: how how people listen to music, and um, what types 3222 03:12:05,720 --> 03:12:10,080 Speaker 1: of people are listening to, what types of music allows 3223 03:12:10,240 --> 03:12:15,680 Speaker 1: us to give a better listening experience. So in terms 3224 03:12:15,760 --> 03:12:21,760 Speaker 1: and in that you know it's funny because when when 3225 03:12:21,840 --> 03:12:24,320 Speaker 1: you talk about data now because of the Facebook thing, 3226 03:12:24,640 --> 03:12:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, it kind of freaks people out right. Um, 3227 03:12:28,360 --> 03:12:31,360 Speaker 1: but data used in the right way can give you 3228 03:12:31,480 --> 03:12:37,320 Speaker 1: an incredible experience. So if you look at ten years 3229 03:12:37,879 --> 03:12:44,360 Speaker 1: of understanding the way tens and tens of millions over 3230 03:12:44,360 --> 03:12:48,160 Speaker 1: a hundred million people listening listen to music, you really 3231 03:12:48,280 --> 03:12:51,280 Speaker 1: understand how to personalize and experience. And that's how That's 3232 03:12:51,320 --> 03:12:55,160 Speaker 1: why I discover Weekly worked really well, release Radar worked 3233 03:12:55,200 --> 03:12:58,960 Speaker 1: really well, and then um daily Mix worked really well. 3234 03:12:59,440 --> 03:13:02,400 Speaker 1: And now know, UM, I think we're we're we're we're 3235 03:13:02,480 --> 03:13:07,200 Speaker 1: able to dial it in even even better. Next question, Jim, 3236 03:13:09,280 --> 03:13:11,640 Speaker 1: we have to Mike, So if someone else get a 3237 03:13:11,720 --> 03:13:15,800 Speaker 1: Mike Jake. UM, I have a question, if you guys 3238 03:13:15,879 --> 03:13:19,760 Speaker 1: have ever looked at the genre of music against the 3239 03:13:19,920 --> 03:13:24,920 Speaker 1: free service versus the paid service? Can you I think 3240 03:13:24,959 --> 03:13:27,879 Speaker 1: what he means is do people listen who are paying 3241 03:13:28,280 --> 03:13:31,640 Speaker 1: listen to different stuff from the people who are not paying? Yeah, 3242 03:13:32,680 --> 03:13:35,400 Speaker 1: and and and do you have data on that? So 3243 03:13:35,560 --> 03:13:38,040 Speaker 1: the answer would be I'm add percent sure we have 3244 03:13:38,200 --> 03:13:41,560 Speaker 1: data data on that. UM. I wouldn't be able to 3245 03:13:41,800 --> 03:13:47,600 Speaker 1: break down specifically, I could say it broadly, you know, 3246 03:13:47,840 --> 03:13:50,640 Speaker 1: in terms of like sort of premium premium versus free, 3247 03:13:51,080 --> 03:13:56,840 Speaker 1: but um, not really specifically right right now, okay, gentlemen, 3248 03:13:56,959 --> 03:13:59,360 Speaker 1: right here, hey Troy, I'm here from Sweden. There's a 3249 03:13:59,400 --> 03:14:02,680 Speaker 1: lot of debate eight um back where I'm from about 3250 03:14:02,840 --> 03:14:05,760 Speaker 1: the sort of payment models from Spotify little bit a 3251 03:14:05,800 --> 03:14:09,080 Speaker 1: little bit louder place, the payment models from Spotify to 3252 03:14:09,360 --> 03:14:12,120 Speaker 1: the labels and from the labels to the artists, and 3253 03:14:12,240 --> 03:14:15,280 Speaker 1: the sort of royalty pool that's being built up. Do 3254 03:14:15,520 --> 03:14:18,360 Speaker 1: you know if Spotify is planning to change anything in 3255 03:14:18,400 --> 03:14:21,560 Speaker 1: the model in the nearest future or instead of discussion 3256 03:14:21,600 --> 03:14:26,680 Speaker 1: that happens in the office. Well, well, um, and this 3257 03:14:26,920 --> 03:14:28,840 Speaker 1: is is a is a good question. You know. The 3258 03:14:29,240 --> 03:14:32,879 Speaker 1: reality is, you know you kind of we I think 3259 03:14:32,920 --> 03:14:37,880 Speaker 1: we've gone through this sort of in a very very 3260 03:14:37,959 --> 03:14:44,080 Speaker 1: beginning of Spotify, when when people said Spotify doesn't pay 3261 03:14:44,240 --> 03:14:48,320 Speaker 1: pay out, they were right because it was no scale, right, 3262 03:14:48,480 --> 03:14:51,840 Speaker 1: So it's just you know, it's only a certain amount 3263 03:14:51,920 --> 03:14:56,560 Speaker 1: of paying customers on the platform, So the royalty payments 3264 03:14:56,600 --> 03:15:00,200 Speaker 1: were smaller in the beginning. You fast forward and out 3265 03:15:00,440 --> 03:15:04,480 Speaker 1: we paid out over eight billion euros, you know, to 3266 03:15:04,680 --> 03:15:09,599 Speaker 1: to to the music industry. And but how that's distributed 3267 03:15:10,000 --> 03:15:14,800 Speaker 1: to artists and creators is based off of individual deals. 3268 03:15:15,480 --> 03:15:18,240 Speaker 1: So at that point, you know, it's we can't make 3269 03:15:19,040 --> 03:15:23,240 Speaker 1: UM rights holders pay out any specific way you know 3270 03:15:23,360 --> 03:15:27,520 Speaker 1: is their individual deals with individual artists. UM. But the 3271 03:15:27,640 --> 03:15:33,280 Speaker 1: reality is, I think quite naturally, UM, just what what 3272 03:15:33,959 --> 03:15:38,360 Speaker 1: I see happening generally in the industry. The next ten 3273 03:15:38,440 --> 03:15:40,680 Speaker 1: years are gonna look a lot different because you have 3274 03:15:41,879 --> 03:15:45,080 Speaker 1: a lot of are you got I'm seeing artists that 3275 03:15:45,440 --> 03:15:50,440 Speaker 1: are UM and I'm just gonna speak very candidly, I'm 3276 03:15:50,440 --> 03:15:52,480 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of artists that are opting to stay 3277 03:15:52,520 --> 03:15:56,640 Speaker 1: independent because they're seeing how much, you know, you can 3278 03:15:56,720 --> 03:15:58,960 Speaker 1: really make, you can really make a living and you 3279 03:15:59,040 --> 03:16:01,680 Speaker 1: get you get real hash flow in terms of not 3280 03:16:01,879 --> 03:16:04,959 Speaker 1: having to wait you know, along along if you are independent, 3281 03:16:05,000 --> 03:16:07,240 Speaker 1: how often you get paid from Spotify um you get 3282 03:16:07,280 --> 03:16:10,080 Speaker 1: It depends on your aggregator and how your aggregator works. 3283 03:16:10,120 --> 03:16:12,240 Speaker 1: But let's say on average you get a monthly payment 3284 03:16:12,360 --> 03:16:15,600 Speaker 1: that trails. Right, So if I didn't interrupt, do you 3285 03:16:15,640 --> 03:16:18,280 Speaker 1: get a monthly payment that that trails. But let's just 3286 03:16:18,320 --> 03:16:20,440 Speaker 1: talk about the future of the business. Right, If we 3287 03:16:20,520 --> 03:16:22,760 Speaker 1: look at the future of the business, and we look 3288 03:16:22,840 --> 03:16:26,360 Speaker 1: at a cross and this isn't me predicting Spotify. I'm 3289 03:16:26,440 --> 03:16:29,240 Speaker 1: just talking specifically for the industry and looking at other 3290 03:16:29,320 --> 03:16:33,480 Speaker 1: types of industry. Why shouldn't artists get paid If uber 3291 03:16:33,600 --> 03:16:37,720 Speaker 1: drivers and lift drivers now can say cash out after 3292 03:16:37,840 --> 03:16:40,760 Speaker 1: their drive and that and it goes directly into their 3293 03:16:40,760 --> 03:16:44,360 Speaker 1: bank account of PayPal account, my guess is artists in 3294 03:16:44,400 --> 03:16:46,560 Speaker 1: the future are gonna be able to cash out after 3295 03:16:46,840 --> 03:16:49,480 Speaker 1: a day of streams how whenever they need, whenever they 3296 03:16:49,560 --> 03:16:52,400 Speaker 1: need that money. And cash flow is a big problem 3297 03:16:52,440 --> 03:16:55,039 Speaker 1: with artists. We know you might need to pay rent, 3298 03:16:55,160 --> 03:16:56,959 Speaker 1: you might need to buy gear, you might be going 3299 03:16:57,000 --> 03:16:59,200 Speaker 1: on tour, whatever, you might need to buy a car, 3300 03:16:59,360 --> 03:17:02,520 Speaker 1: whatever you need to do. Cash flows an issue. So 3301 03:17:02,760 --> 03:17:07,320 Speaker 1: when historically you know, record labels have taken care of 3302 03:17:07,360 --> 03:17:11,920 Speaker 1: a cash flow problem. But in so I think, um, 3303 03:17:12,760 --> 03:17:18,160 Speaker 1: the question, the bigger question becomes value proposition. Well, the 3304 03:17:18,320 --> 03:17:25,200 Speaker 1: value proposition um for of giving up eighty five of 3305 03:17:25,440 --> 03:17:32,439 Speaker 1: your of your revenue and exchange for marketing promotion, cash advanced, 3306 03:17:32,480 --> 03:17:37,480 Speaker 1: whatever is it gonna be worth it? And that's I 3307 03:17:37,560 --> 03:17:39,959 Speaker 1: think that's gonna be That's gonna be the biggest trick. 3308 03:17:40,280 --> 03:17:42,920 Speaker 1: But I think I don't think deals are gonna stay 3309 03:17:42,959 --> 03:17:46,000 Speaker 1: the same I think that the whole value chain is 3310 03:17:46,040 --> 03:17:50,760 Speaker 1: gonna change. I think record labels are gonna um evolve 3311 03:17:50,840 --> 03:17:54,680 Speaker 1: their their value proposition. I think managers are gonna evolve 3312 03:17:54,760 --> 03:17:58,840 Speaker 1: their value proposition. I think UM those services are gonna 3313 03:17:58,879 --> 03:18:01,920 Speaker 1: start looking very like each other. Management companies will look 3314 03:18:01,959 --> 03:18:05,320 Speaker 1: like labels, labels will look like management companies and UM 3315 03:18:05,680 --> 03:18:07,280 Speaker 1: and then but from there, I think it's going to 3316 03:18:07,360 --> 03:18:10,560 Speaker 1: be about the value that the artists feel like they 3317 03:18:10,600 --> 03:18:14,840 Speaker 1: can capture. In the end, does that answer? Does that help? Well? 3318 03:18:14,879 --> 03:18:16,960 Speaker 1: The other? The other? But the other thing about I 3319 03:18:17,000 --> 03:18:19,400 Speaker 1: think you're addressing is at this point in time, is 3320 03:18:19,440 --> 03:18:22,199 Speaker 1: it's sixty seven or sixty eight percent of every dollar 3321 03:18:22,400 --> 03:18:26,280 Speaker 1: goes to right soldiers, UM from from Spotify, Yes, some 3322 03:18:26,440 --> 03:18:29,039 Speaker 1: somewhere in the area. Right, So what happened If you've 3323 03:18:29,040 --> 03:18:31,200 Speaker 1: had to deal with an aggregator like tune in you pay, 3324 03:18:31,400 --> 03:18:33,039 Speaker 1: I mean the tune corret you paid once a year. 3325 03:18:33,240 --> 03:18:35,560 Speaker 1: All that money will be yours, assuming you both write 3326 03:18:35,600 --> 03:18:38,120 Speaker 1: the song and record the song. But if there's someone 3327 03:18:38,160 --> 03:18:41,119 Speaker 1: in between, like a label, assuming they're paying you at all, 3328 03:18:41,720 --> 03:18:44,680 Speaker 1: your deal maybe fifteen cents on the dollar that they get. 3329 03:18:45,400 --> 03:18:48,480 Speaker 1: But the issue this is also an interesting issue because 3330 03:18:48,920 --> 03:18:52,640 Speaker 1: they don't really want Spotify if they really start talking 3331 03:18:52,680 --> 03:18:55,280 Speaker 1: about this and pointing at the labels their partners, the 3332 03:18:55,360 --> 03:18:57,360 Speaker 1: labels don't like it to be talked about. And we 3333 03:18:57,440 --> 03:18:59,720 Speaker 1: don't have to point like it, I think. And that's 3334 03:18:59,760 --> 03:19:03,119 Speaker 1: the thing, like it's you know where we're it's it's 3335 03:19:03,640 --> 03:19:07,840 Speaker 1: we We are a very transparent company and you know 3336 03:19:07,959 --> 03:19:10,000 Speaker 1: we don't we don't play hide the ball with with 3337 03:19:10,320 --> 03:19:13,920 Speaker 1: with record labels. We talked very openly about the about 3338 03:19:14,320 --> 03:19:17,440 Speaker 1: our business to them. Um. We also talked to to 3339 03:19:17,680 --> 03:19:20,080 Speaker 1: to the record labels about what the future the business 3340 03:19:20,200 --> 03:19:25,120 Speaker 1: is gonna look like. And Daniels a guy who he 3341 03:19:25,320 --> 03:19:28,280 Speaker 1: lives ten years in the in in the future, like 3342 03:19:28,440 --> 03:19:32,040 Speaker 1: that's that's how he he thinks. And you know, my 3343 03:19:32,280 --> 03:19:35,200 Speaker 1: and you know and I laugh because at times I say, 3344 03:19:35,280 --> 03:19:38,039 Speaker 1: hold on you your ten years in the future. Sometimes 3345 03:19:38,080 --> 03:19:40,400 Speaker 1: I'm dealing with people who are ten years in the past. 3346 03:19:40,840 --> 03:19:43,200 Speaker 1: I gotta client of clothes. I gotta close the gap 3347 03:19:43,280 --> 03:19:50,880 Speaker 1: a little because mine very quickly. Okay, No, So I 3348 03:19:50,959 --> 03:19:55,199 Speaker 1: think Spotify is great, and I think that the okay 3349 03:19:55,520 --> 03:19:58,360 Speaker 1: and the payout is similar to own distributions. So that's 3350 03:19:58,440 --> 03:20:01,800 Speaker 1: all great. I'm what part of my question was relating 3351 03:20:01,840 --> 03:20:04,360 Speaker 1: to the sort of pool. What happens if I pay 3352 03:20:04,600 --> 03:20:09,360 Speaker 1: my I don't know what it's here not. So what 3353 03:20:09,680 --> 03:20:12,440 Speaker 1: you're addressing is if I pay ten dollars and only 3354 03:20:12,480 --> 03:20:15,240 Speaker 1: listen to bandex, should be index get all of my 3355 03:20:15,360 --> 03:20:18,840 Speaker 1: ten dollars. About five years ago somebody ran the numbers 3356 03:20:19,040 --> 03:20:21,160 Speaker 1: and they found that people were actually going to make 3357 03:20:21,280 --> 03:20:24,680 Speaker 1: less under that basis. I haven't seen the numbers run recently, 3358 03:20:25,280 --> 03:20:27,680 Speaker 1: but I would just go to the bottom line is 3359 03:20:27,840 --> 03:20:30,680 Speaker 1: but it goes to the pool, right Yeah. Spotify pays 3360 03:20:31,280 --> 03:20:34,200 Speaker 1: based on the listens, and every at least once a 3361 03:20:34,240 --> 03:20:37,000 Speaker 1: week somebody emails being something that's got fifty million streams 3362 03:20:37,200 --> 03:20:39,200 Speaker 1: that I've never heard of. It's not on a label. 3363 03:20:39,560 --> 03:20:42,280 Speaker 1: So people email me all the time that they're getting 3364 03:20:42,520 --> 03:20:44,760 Speaker 1: not even a million streams. Why are they not making money? 3365 03:20:45,600 --> 03:20:48,440 Speaker 1: The demand is not that high, but interesting topics just 3366 03:20:48,480 --> 03:20:51,320 Speaker 1: want to gainst other people a chance. Gentlemen, lady back 3367 03:20:51,320 --> 03:20:53,520 Speaker 1: there in a million. A million streams isn't a lot 3368 03:20:53,640 --> 03:20:59,199 Speaker 1: on our platform. I'm gonna switch topics just very quickly. 3369 03:20:59,480 --> 03:21:02,119 Speaker 1: I've loved to this so much. Thank you. My background 3370 03:21:02,200 --> 03:21:05,560 Speaker 1: I'm a Silicon Valley nerd and worked in digital audio 3371 03:21:05,640 --> 03:21:09,360 Speaker 1: forever started off at digit Design, and I have to hear, 3372 03:21:09,760 --> 03:21:12,960 Speaker 1: uh what the tip was that Jimmy Ivan gave you 3373 03:21:13,240 --> 03:21:16,200 Speaker 1: to make Lady Gagas sound better on tour. I've just 3374 03:21:16,320 --> 03:21:20,280 Speaker 1: been dying to know what that was. That was what 3375 03:21:20,480 --> 03:21:25,480 Speaker 1: we fired. We fired our front of house guy. I've 3376 03:21:25,520 --> 03:21:28,560 Speaker 1: worked with a lot of sound engineers, so I know Horace. 3377 03:21:28,920 --> 03:21:31,119 Speaker 1: So hopefully it wasn't well. By the way, I love Horrors. 3378 03:21:31,200 --> 03:21:33,400 Speaker 1: By the way Harors we were. Horrors was out with 3379 03:21:33,520 --> 03:21:35,600 Speaker 1: us for a long time. He's great. By the way, 3380 03:21:35,680 --> 03:21:39,200 Speaker 1: he did some of our best tours. Okay, we probably 3381 03:21:39,240 --> 03:21:41,400 Speaker 1: got hard right over here on the left, just to 3382 03:21:41,400 --> 03:21:43,760 Speaker 1: show we have interest over here while he's standing, he 3383 03:21:43,800 --> 03:21:47,640 Speaker 1: can get it. We'll get next. Hi. Try great. This 3384 03:21:47,840 --> 03:21:52,000 Speaker 1: was a great discussion, moderation aside. I thought it was fantastic. Um, 3385 03:21:54,400 --> 03:21:57,120 Speaker 1: I mean talking ten years down down the road, the 3386 03:21:57,200 --> 03:21:59,640 Speaker 1: way Daniel seems to look at things. Um, some of 3387 03:21:59,760 --> 03:22:02,920 Speaker 1: us also try to look that way. In terms of 3388 03:22:03,240 --> 03:22:05,680 Speaker 1: you know you, you mentioned a lot of strategic partnerships 3389 03:22:05,760 --> 03:22:08,800 Speaker 1: that you've had in your other business dealings. What about 3390 03:22:08,879 --> 03:22:14,519 Speaker 1: in terms of touring. Has Spotify looked towards strategic partnerships 3391 03:22:15,400 --> 03:22:17,959 Speaker 1: in that respect? You know, I talked, we we talked 3392 03:22:17,959 --> 03:22:20,760 Speaker 1: about touring a lot just because you know, it's it's 3393 03:22:20,800 --> 03:22:28,040 Speaker 1: an industry that we feel is it's it's broken, you know. Um. 3394 03:22:29,920 --> 03:22:33,360 Speaker 1: I was talking to one of our engineers about you know, product, 3395 03:22:33,840 --> 03:22:36,480 Speaker 1: and I was telling them it was I think it 3396 03:22:36,640 --> 03:22:41,320 Speaker 1: was with Gaga, we sold out we would put a 3397 03:22:41,400 --> 03:22:44,440 Speaker 1: tour up. And I got a call from the promoter 3398 03:22:44,720 --> 03:22:48,080 Speaker 1: and they said, hey, we sold out for gardens and 3399 03:22:48,680 --> 03:22:50,520 Speaker 1: X amount of time and you know we had we 3400 03:22:50,959 --> 03:22:54,280 Speaker 1: we had another two or three in the queue. Said 3401 03:22:54,760 --> 03:22:57,640 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm like, that's not good news. Somebody should 3402 03:22:57,640 --> 03:23:00,879 Speaker 1: have known that it was you know enough, we could 3403 03:23:00,920 --> 03:23:04,200 Speaker 1: have done three more gardens instead of us having to 3404 03:23:04,280 --> 03:23:09,440 Speaker 1: go to fucking Jersey after New York. Because to be 3405 03:23:09,560 --> 03:23:13,160 Speaker 1: able to monetize not have to pack up and move 3406 03:23:13,280 --> 03:23:17,840 Speaker 1: your show, not have to be hard on the artist's 3407 03:23:18,120 --> 03:23:21,440 Speaker 1: physical body by having to move them around is so 3408 03:23:21,640 --> 03:23:25,400 Speaker 1: many inefficiencies and in touring, and so the way towards 3409 03:23:25,400 --> 03:23:29,119 Speaker 1: around it right now is not through data. Is basically 3410 03:23:29,280 --> 03:23:31,879 Speaker 1: through guys who have been out on the road, through 3411 03:23:31,920 --> 03:23:37,840 Speaker 1: booking agents. UM, through hey, uh this pop act did 3412 03:23:38,080 --> 03:23:40,600 Speaker 1: this amount of O two so you should be able 3413 03:23:40,600 --> 03:23:42,840 Speaker 1: to do this amount of O twos or whatever. There's 3414 03:23:42,920 --> 03:23:47,000 Speaker 1: no data. The merchandise business is the same exact thing. 3415 03:23:47,080 --> 03:23:50,440 Speaker 1: It's no, it's no data. So we feel like, you know, 3416 03:23:50,600 --> 03:23:53,800 Speaker 1: there's enough data at least that we have where we 3417 03:23:53,920 --> 03:23:58,119 Speaker 1: can identify super fans on on the platform and specific markets. 3418 03:23:58,680 --> 03:24:02,640 Speaker 1: And if with access to other types of data be 3419 03:24:02,800 --> 03:24:06,400 Speaker 1: at venue data, poll Star data, you know, the artists 3420 03:24:06,480 --> 03:24:10,320 Speaker 1: you know, um, their their fan site data some other things, 3421 03:24:10,920 --> 03:24:16,600 Speaker 1: you can really make well informed decisions on touring. But 3422 03:24:16,760 --> 03:24:28,240 Speaker 1: not even the Getta Getta. But I think even the 3423 03:24:28,360 --> 03:24:31,600 Speaker 1: product now though to me, is remedial in terms of 3424 03:24:32,600 --> 03:24:35,480 Speaker 1: what's available. Like, to be honest with you, I like 3425 03:24:36,240 --> 03:24:42,720 Speaker 1: routing the tour is the easiest part, right, but understanding 3426 03:24:42,840 --> 03:24:56,640 Speaker 1: who is I'm doing that now? I'm doing it now. 3427 03:24:56,879 --> 03:25:00,760 Speaker 1: I did three hundred of them last year probably, so 3428 03:25:00,959 --> 03:25:03,200 Speaker 1: we you know, we probably sold close to a hundred 3429 03:25:03,240 --> 03:25:07,120 Speaker 1: million and tickets for people, so we we Well, so 3430 03:25:07,400 --> 03:25:09,720 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be clear. I get that email who's 3431 03:25:09,760 --> 03:25:14,240 Speaker 1: playing in my neighborhood from Spotify, but not not that okay, 3432 03:25:14,400 --> 03:25:16,440 Speaker 1: so but I'm aware of that, tell me about the 3433 03:25:16,840 --> 03:25:20,840 Speaker 1: super fans. So so basically, yes, so basically what happens 3434 03:25:20,959 --> 03:25:25,400 Speaker 1: is UM booking agents come to us or managers that 3435 03:25:25,520 --> 03:25:28,680 Speaker 1: come to us, and we do two things. So we 3436 03:25:28,879 --> 03:25:33,160 Speaker 1: either can help UM a lot of like superstars that 3437 03:25:33,280 --> 03:25:36,200 Speaker 1: come to us and they'll say, we only want our 3438 03:25:36,320 --> 03:25:40,640 Speaker 1: super fans and x amount in the first few rows 3439 03:25:40,959 --> 03:25:44,160 Speaker 1: throughout the entire tour, So can you market the show 3440 03:25:44,800 --> 03:25:47,760 Speaker 1: with this with the with this ticket allocation to our 3441 03:25:47,840 --> 03:25:51,240 Speaker 1: super fans. So that's one one part of it, so 3442 03:25:51,360 --> 03:25:53,560 Speaker 1: where we'll market the show to the super fans on 3443 03:25:53,680 --> 03:25:56,960 Speaker 1: our through our platform essentially through our data. And then 3444 03:25:57,000 --> 03:26:00,120 Speaker 1: the other piece of it is distressed inventory, So for 3445 03:26:00,200 --> 03:26:04,720 Speaker 1: shows that aren't selling, being able to identify those super 3446 03:26:04,800 --> 03:26:06,960 Speaker 1: fans and those markets who may not know that the 3447 03:26:07,000 --> 03:26:10,440 Speaker 1: show's coming through and being able to to sell the 3448 03:26:10,560 --> 03:26:14,320 Speaker 1: distressed inventory as well. So what you'll see and by 3449 03:26:14,360 --> 03:26:16,520 Speaker 1: the way, even with the amount of tickets that we 3450 03:26:16,640 --> 03:26:21,400 Speaker 1: sold through their UM, we still think it's remedial. So 3451 03:26:21,600 --> 03:26:23,760 Speaker 1: the products that you know we're working on right now, 3452 03:26:23,879 --> 03:26:26,120 Speaker 1: we feel like it's gonna get better and better. So 3453 03:26:26,240 --> 03:26:28,640 Speaker 1: one like one of the things Daniel talked about on 3454 03:26:28,720 --> 03:26:32,120 Speaker 1: our investor relations day UM you know a couple of 3455 03:26:32,160 --> 03:26:35,960 Speaker 1: months ago, was this idea about a building out a marketplace. 3456 03:26:36,400 --> 03:26:41,599 Speaker 1: So essentially Spotify is is will evolve into a marketplace 3457 03:26:41,680 --> 03:26:44,080 Speaker 1: where artists don't need us to do it. They'll be 3458 03:26:44,160 --> 03:26:46,359 Speaker 1: able to come on there and reach their fans directly, 3459 03:26:46,840 --> 03:26:51,000 Speaker 1: sell their tickets to their fans, directly, merchandise, message their fans, 3460 03:26:51,240 --> 03:26:54,240 Speaker 1: and to kind of build this relationship. Okay, who has 3461 03:26:54,320 --> 03:26:56,400 Speaker 1: the mic right now? I got I got one over here. 3462 03:26:56,440 --> 03:27:01,280 Speaker 1: I just found it. Thank you, thank you. UM. You 3463 03:27:01,480 --> 03:27:05,200 Speaker 1: brought up India verses or artists wanting to stay Indy. 3464 03:27:05,400 --> 03:27:07,760 Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest points of that is 3465 03:27:07,840 --> 03:27:11,120 Speaker 1: to have control. How many artists have recorded records and 3466 03:27:11,160 --> 03:27:13,440 Speaker 1: they're just sitting there. So I think the biggest factor 3467 03:27:13,520 --> 03:27:16,280 Speaker 1: and staying independent is to have that control of of 3468 03:27:16,680 --> 03:27:19,760 Speaker 1: doing your career the way you wanted to. UM. I've 3469 03:27:19,800 --> 03:27:22,600 Speaker 1: been on both sides of the majors in the Indies. 3470 03:27:22,640 --> 03:27:25,920 Speaker 1: I spent my first fifty or sixty decades at a 3471 03:27:26,040 --> 03:27:29,880 Speaker 1: major and my last sixty decades on the indie side. UM. 3472 03:27:29,959 --> 03:27:32,680 Speaker 1: I think right now you know the answer is. I 3473 03:27:32,760 --> 03:27:37,320 Speaker 1: don't think it's radio or Spotify or TV or festivals 3474 03:27:37,400 --> 03:27:39,960 Speaker 1: or it's almost like what you did with Gaga is 3475 03:27:40,000 --> 03:27:42,600 Speaker 1: you ran around and did everything you know, I think 3476 03:27:42,640 --> 03:27:45,680 Speaker 1: the future kind of is the past. I was preceded 3477 03:27:45,720 --> 03:27:49,040 Speaker 1: by a guy named Juggie Gayles, and Juggie was like 3478 03:27:49,160 --> 03:27:51,440 Speaker 1: a song he was he was a plugger. They called 3479 03:27:51,480 --> 03:27:54,400 Speaker 1: him song Fluggers and they just went everywhere they went, 3480 03:27:54,520 --> 03:27:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, and you go everywhere. You have this intuition 3481 03:27:57,040 --> 03:27:59,640 Speaker 1: and you navigate it and try to you know, fan 3482 03:27:59,720 --> 03:28:02,240 Speaker 1: the aims. I I think, you know, you brought up 3483 03:28:02,280 --> 03:28:06,120 Speaker 1: research and radio's research. I don't think the concept of 3484 03:28:06,200 --> 03:28:09,840 Speaker 1: research isn't incorrect. Like I look at the research on Spotify. 3485 03:28:10,000 --> 03:28:12,480 Speaker 1: You're looking at what people are really doing. I think 3486 03:28:12,640 --> 03:28:17,080 Speaker 1: radio buildings archaic um call out research paradigm where they 3487 03:28:17,200 --> 03:28:19,840 Speaker 1: feel they can look in the rear view mirror or 3488 03:28:19,840 --> 03:28:22,120 Speaker 1: as those are the people who are listening to their stations. 3489 03:28:22,360 --> 03:28:25,199 Speaker 1: And that's that's what the problem is. It's it's they're 3490 03:28:25,280 --> 03:28:29,040 Speaker 1: so entrenched in that system and that's what's hurting them to, 3491 03:28:29,320 --> 03:28:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, to move to towards the future. Um. I 3492 03:28:32,680 --> 03:28:37,160 Speaker 1: was um thinking about Spotify. I was thinking about consumption. 3493 03:28:37,240 --> 03:28:39,640 Speaker 1: Everything is about you know, you when you look at 3494 03:28:39,680 --> 03:28:42,160 Speaker 1: the numbers on wrap or Wrap Cavy or a hip hop, 3495 03:28:42,480 --> 03:28:45,960 Speaker 1: there tend to one right. Oh and yet where you 3496 03:28:46,040 --> 03:28:48,560 Speaker 1: may tend to one in terms of like I look 3497 03:28:48,640 --> 03:28:51,959 Speaker 1: at the amount of followers, the amount of listeners, the amount, 3498 03:28:52,240 --> 03:28:55,760 Speaker 1: how how huge hip hop is right now, And I 3499 03:28:55,920 --> 03:28:59,760 Speaker 1: was thinking about the live business, about about these festivals. 3500 03:29:00,520 --> 03:29:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm getting to the question, um, when when you're looking 3501 03:29:03,840 --> 03:29:08,240 Speaker 1: at these festivals now, Lallapalooza, bonar Ruaisia. Every day there's 3502 03:29:08,280 --> 03:29:12,039 Speaker 1: more and more festivals and what's driving them and it's it's, Um, 3503 03:29:12,640 --> 03:29:15,040 Speaker 1: the irony is that it's a time when people can 3504 03:29:15,080 --> 03:29:17,640 Speaker 1: be alone, they can sit in their house and be 3505 03:29:17,840 --> 03:29:20,840 Speaker 1: on the internet. They're all going out to these festivals 3506 03:29:20,920 --> 03:29:24,640 Speaker 1: and all you know, it's it's it's fascinating to me. 3507 03:29:25,320 --> 03:29:27,560 Speaker 1: And when I look at these festivals and I look 3508 03:29:27,600 --> 03:29:29,240 Speaker 1: at again, I'm not in the touring side. I'm on 3509 03:29:29,280 --> 03:29:33,320 Speaker 1: the recorded music side, but that that's being driven a 3510 03:29:33,360 --> 03:29:36,320 Speaker 1: lot by alternative and rock more than I think, you know, 3511 03:29:36,400 --> 03:29:39,200 Speaker 1: on the hip hop side. And my question to you is, 3512 03:29:39,240 --> 03:29:42,920 Speaker 1: why do you think there's such a disparity between you know, 3513 03:29:43,160 --> 03:29:45,480 Speaker 1: the recorded music side, the hip hop and the wrap 3514 03:29:45,800 --> 03:29:48,160 Speaker 1: and the live business where these people are coming out 3515 03:29:48,200 --> 03:29:51,760 Speaker 1: in droves. Why is the recorded music and have such 3516 03:29:51,800 --> 03:29:54,200 Speaker 1: a higher demand, you know, on the hip hop side 3517 03:29:54,600 --> 03:29:58,080 Speaker 1: compared to I don't think it's a disparity at all. Like, 3518 03:29:58,640 --> 03:30:02,680 Speaker 1: you know, you see hip hop acts that are selling 3519 03:30:03,040 --> 03:30:06,240 Speaker 1: you know, arenas out every every single night of the week. 3520 03:30:06,400 --> 03:30:08,280 Speaker 1: So I like, I don't think it's I don't think 3521 03:30:08,280 --> 03:30:11,280 Speaker 1: it's a disparity. And then when you look at you know, 3522 03:30:11,360 --> 03:30:14,680 Speaker 1: I think they're especially with the younger consumer like a 3523 03:30:14,720 --> 03:30:18,680 Speaker 1: Cachella consumer or or Lollapalooza. You know, you look at 3524 03:30:18,760 --> 03:30:21,640 Speaker 1: the festival lineups and its diverse, you know, and I 3525 03:30:21,720 --> 03:30:25,640 Speaker 1: think the diversity, yeah, I think the diversity and and um, 3526 03:30:26,360 --> 03:30:29,480 Speaker 1: even with this past Catchella is a reflection of the 3527 03:30:29,640 --> 03:30:32,960 Speaker 1: way you know, kids are listening to music, so where 3528 03:30:33,000 --> 03:30:37,120 Speaker 1: they are listening to all different all different types. Huh, 3529 03:30:37,280 --> 03:30:39,360 Speaker 1: it was Mike right here. I don't, I don't. It's 3530 03:30:39,400 --> 03:30:41,200 Speaker 1: not that it's catching up. I don't think it was 3531 03:30:41,320 --> 03:30:44,360 Speaker 1: ever behind. Actually I think it was behind. I think 3532 03:30:44,360 --> 03:30:47,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the festivals were booked by old white guys. 3533 03:30:47,360 --> 03:30:50,200 Speaker 1: But but when you say live, live and festivals are 3534 03:30:50,240 --> 03:30:53,000 Speaker 1: two different things. The lot, the lot, the live business 3535 03:30:53,080 --> 03:30:56,080 Speaker 1: has never been, never been behind. But like I think 3536 03:30:56,200 --> 03:30:59,680 Speaker 1: festivals realized they had to wake up and diversify the business. 3537 03:30:59,720 --> 03:31:12,400 Speaker 1: If they wanted to keep with the with the consumer. Okay, 3538 03:31:12,440 --> 03:31:17,879 Speaker 1: gentlemen here, Okay, yeah, um, going back, I think Bob, 3539 03:31:17,959 --> 03:31:22,160 Speaker 1: you're you actually asked a question about uh, possibly labels 3540 03:31:22,200 --> 03:31:25,039 Speaker 1: controlling too much of what gets to the list. Um 3541 03:31:25,120 --> 03:31:28,360 Speaker 1: you made a comment about the hype. Is you know 3542 03:31:28,480 --> 03:31:32,120 Speaker 1: there's no hype, it's the numbers don't lie? Um which 3543 03:31:32,240 --> 03:31:37,360 Speaker 1: list though? Well, because it's fortylists right, right, So here's 3544 03:31:37,400 --> 03:31:41,320 Speaker 1: my question is of those how many? How many editors 3545 03:31:41,360 --> 03:31:43,720 Speaker 1: are there? And then sort of the part two is, 3546 03:31:44,360 --> 03:31:46,959 Speaker 1: let's take an act that has no touring base, right, 3547 03:31:47,280 --> 03:31:49,800 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna use some old terms, but you can 3548 03:31:49,840 --> 03:31:52,360 Speaker 1: never get to call out without having the ad, right, 3549 03:31:52,440 --> 03:31:54,280 Speaker 1: So you've got to have that initial ad before you 3550 03:31:54,280 --> 03:31:57,480 Speaker 1: can get to call out. So before you can get 3551 03:31:57,520 --> 03:31:59,560 Speaker 1: the numbers, there has to be some amount of hype 3552 03:31:59,640 --> 03:32:02,160 Speaker 1: or some amount of connection to those editors, right, No, 3553 03:32:02,480 --> 03:32:04,480 Speaker 1: not at all, Like it's it's just a it's a 3554 03:32:04,640 --> 03:32:09,080 Speaker 1: handful like So to answer, I'll answer if you your questions. 3555 03:32:09,160 --> 03:32:14,040 Speaker 1: So is is a few hundred editors globally at Spotify, 3556 03:32:14,280 --> 03:32:20,240 Speaker 1: across the across the different genres. Our editors especially and 3557 03:32:20,480 --> 03:32:25,560 Speaker 1: in certain specific genres, they pride like part of their 3558 03:32:26,360 --> 03:32:30,520 Speaker 1: culture is you got to find stuff before everybody else 3559 03:32:30,640 --> 03:32:32,959 Speaker 1: finds it. That's like that's part of hip hop culture, 3560 03:32:33,000 --> 03:32:36,000 Speaker 1: by the way, and part of Latin culture is as well. 3561 03:32:36,520 --> 03:32:39,280 Speaker 1: You want to get there early before anybody gets it. 3562 03:32:39,760 --> 03:32:43,240 Speaker 1: So they're looking for and they're competing with other services 3563 03:32:43,360 --> 03:32:45,840 Speaker 1: as well trying to find stuff. So a lot of 3564 03:32:45,879 --> 03:32:51,119 Speaker 1: the stuff that um Our editors are finding, like record 3565 03:32:51,160 --> 03:32:55,480 Speaker 1: companies call me every single day of the week trying 3566 03:32:55,520 --> 03:32:59,280 Speaker 1: to sign acts that are independent on on on Spotify. 3567 03:32:59,400 --> 03:33:01,720 Speaker 1: They're trying to nine these records that are that that 3568 03:33:01,840 --> 03:33:04,920 Speaker 1: are doing well. And then you know, in the reality 3569 03:33:05,200 --> 03:33:08,599 Speaker 1: and just when we look at some of the big categories, 3570 03:33:09,840 --> 03:33:13,560 Speaker 1: major labels are over index and all hit records you got, 3571 03:33:13,800 --> 03:33:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, so you know, when we talk about you know, 3572 03:33:15,800 --> 03:33:22,520 Speaker 1: certain name like certain categories that people come to me 3573 03:33:22,680 --> 03:33:26,000 Speaker 1: sort of complaining about, they can't name me any big 3574 03:33:26,080 --> 03:33:28,440 Speaker 1: acts in that in that category in the first place. 3575 03:33:28,879 --> 03:33:31,440 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, I think major labels do 3576 03:33:31,560 --> 03:33:35,840 Speaker 1: an incredible job at making big top forty records, so 3577 03:33:35,959 --> 03:33:40,200 Speaker 1: that quite naturally they're gonna control a big portion of 3578 03:33:40,800 --> 03:33:44,600 Speaker 1: big top forty playlists. You know, when it comes to 3579 03:33:45,280 --> 03:33:48,520 Speaker 1: jazz music, maybe not so much. It comes to some 3580 03:33:48,680 --> 03:33:52,040 Speaker 1: other categories maybe maybe not so much, but I think 3581 03:33:52,160 --> 03:33:54,800 Speaker 1: it's um. I think it's one of those things that 3582 03:33:54,959 --> 03:33:59,480 Speaker 1: people have started talking about so much that people start 3583 03:33:59,560 --> 03:34:02,640 Speaker 1: believing that that that's actually the case. And I just 3584 03:34:02,840 --> 03:34:08,840 Speaker 1: come from I come from a school of hit records work, 3585 03:34:10,320 --> 03:34:15,360 Speaker 1: hit records work, Doug Morris. I remember going into Doug 3586 03:34:15,440 --> 03:34:18,680 Speaker 1: Morris's office after he left Universal and right before he 3587 03:34:18,720 --> 03:34:23,920 Speaker 1: went into Sony and UM, and he was asking me about, UM, 3588 03:34:24,480 --> 03:34:27,160 Speaker 1: what a record that that we that that I put 3589 03:34:27,200 --> 03:34:29,440 Speaker 1: out on one of our acts, and you know, and 3590 03:34:29,480 --> 03:34:31,800 Speaker 1: I said, you know what, the video was too dark? 3591 03:34:32,200 --> 03:34:33,760 Speaker 1: You know, I kind of saw this, you know, just 3592 03:34:34,000 --> 03:34:37,240 Speaker 1: change with the consumer, and you know it wasn't popping up. 3593 03:34:37,480 --> 03:34:42,440 Speaker 1: He said, no, it wasn't a hit. He said, it 3594 03:34:42,600 --> 03:34:46,880 Speaker 1: wasn't a hit. And that's the reality. Nobody wants to 3595 03:34:46,959 --> 03:34:50,120 Speaker 1: admit when their records aren't hits. So most of the 3596 03:34:50,200 --> 03:34:53,439 Speaker 1: complaints I get from people they don't have hit records. 3597 03:34:58,280 --> 03:35:01,879 Speaker 1: Over here. You mentioned that streaming is in its infancy. 3598 03:35:02,080 --> 03:35:04,039 Speaker 1: What does it look like when it's matured? And also 3599 03:35:04,080 --> 03:35:07,440 Speaker 1: based on the data, what emerging genres are there that 3600 03:35:07,520 --> 03:35:09,880 Speaker 1: you guys are seeing, Well, you know, I think you know, 3601 03:35:09,959 --> 03:35:12,320 Speaker 1: when you talk about when when it's mature, you know, 3602 03:35:12,520 --> 03:35:16,200 Speaker 1: and this is where I think we underestimate, you know, 3603 03:35:16,840 --> 03:35:20,800 Speaker 1: the size of of what the global recorded music market 3604 03:35:20,920 --> 03:35:23,840 Speaker 1: is going to be. So everybody talks about the sort 3605 03:35:23,879 --> 03:35:28,000 Speaker 1: of heyday of the record business at its height. And 3606 03:35:28,120 --> 03:35:30,439 Speaker 1: you know when we were selling selling a lot of CDs. 3607 03:35:31,240 --> 03:35:33,880 Speaker 1: More people are on on this planet are gonna have 3608 03:35:34,120 --> 03:35:37,560 Speaker 1: mobile phones than they had CD players. So and when 3609 03:35:37,600 --> 03:35:43,199 Speaker 1: you look at the amount of youth, the youth population 3610 03:35:43,959 --> 03:35:48,120 Speaker 1: that's rising in Africa and in India, you look at 3611 03:35:48,240 --> 03:35:51,520 Speaker 1: China that you know that's never been a factor, and 3612 03:35:51,920 --> 03:35:56,680 Speaker 1: how and the and the paid music market, I think 3613 03:35:56,720 --> 03:36:00,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna I think the music industry is gonna to 3614 03:36:00,240 --> 03:36:04,000 Speaker 1: go exponential growth like we've never seen before. I think 3615 03:36:04,080 --> 03:36:07,160 Speaker 1: what we have to adjust to, you know, we are 3616 03:36:07,640 --> 03:36:12,120 Speaker 1: I think as and I'm just saying is and just 3617 03:36:12,320 --> 03:36:17,200 Speaker 1: generally speaking the music industry we operate as elite like 3618 03:36:17,360 --> 03:36:21,480 Speaker 1: as elitists. So where we're under this impression that everybody 3619 03:36:21,800 --> 03:36:24,960 Speaker 1: is gonna buy a subscription, and everybody in the world 3620 03:36:25,040 --> 03:36:28,240 Speaker 1: in a ford. And if you look at the price 3621 03:36:28,320 --> 03:36:32,040 Speaker 1: of gas this week, people can't afford to put gas 3622 03:36:32,120 --> 03:36:35,080 Speaker 1: in their tank. People are barely making it in this country. 3623 03:36:35,160 --> 03:36:41,080 Speaker 1: People are struggling, and I think it's finding ways where Okay, 3624 03:36:41,920 --> 03:36:46,240 Speaker 1: whether it's through uh, you know, advertising subsidies or whatever. 3625 03:36:46,640 --> 03:36:51,240 Speaker 1: I think there's ways to monetize you know, a billion 3626 03:36:51,320 --> 03:36:55,760 Speaker 1: plus consumer base across you know, the the entire music industry. UM. 3627 03:36:56,160 --> 03:36:58,640 Speaker 1: I think data plans, you know, And that's one of 3628 03:36:58,720 --> 03:37:00,600 Speaker 1: the things we talked about last week with the new 3629 03:37:00,720 --> 03:37:03,440 Speaker 1: free tier was being able to you know, we built 3630 03:37:03,520 --> 03:37:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, lighter data plans because you know, so on 3631 03:37:06,120 --> 03:37:08,480 Speaker 1: on your phone, it's not eating up your data plan. 3632 03:37:08,879 --> 03:37:12,280 Speaker 1: So I think what's ahead of us is gonna is 3633 03:37:13,560 --> 03:37:15,680 Speaker 1: it's gonna. I think we're gonna see something like we 3634 03:37:15,879 --> 03:37:19,560 Speaker 1: we've never seen before. But but the market is um. 3635 03:37:22,840 --> 03:37:24,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to say a number, but I think 3636 03:37:24,400 --> 03:37:27,119 Speaker 1: it's way, way bigger than what we've ever seen. Young lady, 3637 03:37:27,320 --> 03:37:31,000 Speaker 1: right here, have you been waiting? I? UM? What about 3638 03:37:31,040 --> 03:37:35,920 Speaker 1: the role um of curators on the platform and independent curators. 3639 03:37:36,320 --> 03:37:41,119 Speaker 1: Is Spotify developing a program even for example radio stations, blogs, um, 3640 03:37:41,520 --> 03:37:44,400 Speaker 1: just independent curators. What I don't see anything being done 3641 03:37:44,600 --> 03:37:48,560 Speaker 1: for profiles for those entities and people. You you have 3642 03:37:48,760 --> 03:37:53,000 Speaker 1: independent curators that um, that are on the platform where 3643 03:37:53,080 --> 03:37:55,879 Speaker 1: you know where they and some people do a really 3644 03:37:55,920 --> 03:37:58,160 Speaker 1: good job at promoting their playlists and they you know, 3645 03:37:58,280 --> 03:38:01,880 Speaker 1: built followers. Uh um. You know, for us, our priority 3646 03:38:02,000 --> 03:38:05,440 Speaker 1: had to be our own and operated playlists, you know, 3647 03:38:05,560 --> 03:38:08,680 Speaker 1: because I think we were able to control the integrity 3648 03:38:08,879 --> 03:38:11,760 Speaker 1: of those playlists. And what I mean by that is 3649 03:38:11,840 --> 03:38:15,320 Speaker 1: just making sure it doesn't turn to a place where 3650 03:38:15,480 --> 03:38:18,840 Speaker 1: people can pay people to get on playlist and you 3651 03:38:18,920 --> 03:38:22,279 Speaker 1: know so and I think you know, when that ecosystem 3652 03:38:22,360 --> 03:38:24,760 Speaker 1: was open in the in the beginning, a lot of 3653 03:38:24,879 --> 03:38:27,039 Speaker 1: you know, we had to change the terms of services 3654 03:38:27,440 --> 03:38:30,200 Speaker 1: because you had a lot of people paying to get 3655 03:38:30,240 --> 03:38:33,960 Speaker 1: on playlists or you know, exchanging favors to get on 3656 03:38:34,360 --> 03:38:37,040 Speaker 1: to get on playlists. And the only thing that does 3657 03:38:37,200 --> 03:38:43,600 Speaker 1: is makes for uh a terrible consumer experience versus best 3658 03:38:43,640 --> 03:38:47,200 Speaker 1: song wins. So essentially, if we can program in a 3659 03:38:47,320 --> 03:38:51,040 Speaker 1: way where where best song wins is a better experience 3660 03:38:51,080 --> 03:38:54,400 Speaker 1: for the for the consumer. But we're not like there 3661 03:38:54,480 --> 03:38:56,879 Speaker 1: are a lot of brands and people who are building 3662 03:38:56,920 --> 03:39:00,360 Speaker 1: their their profiles. But our priority is is is owned 3663 03:39:00,360 --> 03:39:04,080 Speaker 1: and operated. Who has the mic? Now? Ye right here? 3664 03:39:04,959 --> 03:39:08,280 Speaker 1: I try just going back to the future of streaming UM, 3665 03:39:09,280 --> 03:39:13,080 Speaker 1: we see pricing differentiation for hires players like COB's entitle. 3666 03:39:13,760 --> 03:39:17,320 Speaker 1: UM do you think that's sustainable? And my second question is, UM, 3667 03:39:17,680 --> 03:39:21,680 Speaker 1: there's new UM streaming platforms like Prime Phonic, which are 3668 03:39:21,680 --> 03:39:24,200 Speaker 1: focused on classical music. Do you think the future will 3669 03:39:24,240 --> 03:39:27,320 Speaker 1: be sort of based on differentiation by genre or do 3670 03:39:27,360 --> 03:39:30,320 Speaker 1: you think the hardware ecosystem will dominate? You know, I 3671 03:39:30,400 --> 03:39:34,000 Speaker 1: think you know, just in my my opinion, I think UM, 3672 03:39:34,160 --> 03:39:39,720 Speaker 1: having a niche UM a knee service is deaf is difficult, right, 3673 03:39:39,879 --> 03:39:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, because when you can get and and everything 3674 03:39:44,440 --> 03:39:47,480 Speaker 1: essentially that you pretty much want to listen to him 3675 03:39:47,760 --> 03:39:51,760 Speaker 1: in one place, UM, you gotta have a compelling value 3676 03:39:51,840 --> 03:39:55,520 Speaker 1: proposition to drive somebody to pay specifically for that niche 3677 03:39:55,560 --> 03:39:59,400 Speaker 1: service and then UM this sort of financial models to 3678 03:39:59,520 --> 03:40:01,920 Speaker 1: operate as a business around that. And my I just 3679 03:40:02,080 --> 03:40:05,000 Speaker 1: think would be and it would be challenging, you know, 3680 03:40:05,240 --> 03:40:08,040 Speaker 1: especially as you're competing against you know, some some of 3681 03:40:08,120 --> 03:40:10,720 Speaker 1: the some of the larger players UM in terms of 3682 03:40:10,920 --> 03:40:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, fidelity you know you got I'm one of 3683 03:40:15,760 --> 03:40:19,560 Speaker 1: the the niche consumers that cares about you know, sound 3684 03:40:20,040 --> 03:40:23,760 Speaker 1: and and for me it's specifically for jazz music. Like 3685 03:40:23,879 --> 03:40:26,520 Speaker 1: when I listen to jazz and um, you know, I 3686 03:40:26,600 --> 03:40:29,080 Speaker 1: got high fidelity speakers. I want to listen to it 3687 03:40:29,160 --> 03:40:33,240 Speaker 1: and and and high fidelity. Um. But for a lot 3688 03:40:33,360 --> 03:40:37,360 Speaker 1: of the other records, is like, you don't need to 3689 03:40:37,400 --> 03:40:39,760 Speaker 1: listen to it in high fidelity, right, but you got 3690 03:40:39,920 --> 03:40:43,680 Speaker 1: to find a big enough audience that's willing to pay 3691 03:40:43,800 --> 03:40:46,360 Speaker 1: for it. Um. I'd love to get to a place 3692 03:40:46,400 --> 03:40:49,400 Speaker 1: where everybody cares about how how records you know, were 3693 03:40:49,760 --> 03:40:52,600 Speaker 1: intended to sound. But you know, I don't know if 3694 03:40:52,640 --> 03:40:56,200 Speaker 1: the general population, uh if that if that's something that 3695 03:40:56,520 --> 03:41:00,160 Speaker 1: they really genuinely care about. And I don't think you've 3696 03:41:00,200 --> 03:41:08,240 Speaker 1: been able to, um, how like, so when the jump 3697 03:41:08,440 --> 03:41:13,320 Speaker 1: from cassette to CD was so exponential in terms of sound, 3698 03:41:13,879 --> 03:41:17,800 Speaker 1: and the jump from vhs too, you know, DVD was 3699 03:41:17,920 --> 03:41:21,000 Speaker 1: so was was exponential in terms of you know, a 3700 03:41:21,200 --> 03:41:24,840 Speaker 1: visual and sound, we haven't been able to kind of 3701 03:41:24,920 --> 03:41:28,520 Speaker 1: give any sort of exponential jump yet to make people 3702 03:41:28,640 --> 03:41:38,080 Speaker 1: want to leap from from this to that. Ye just 3703 03:41:38,240 --> 03:41:46,879 Speaker 1: talk Yeah, I don't okay, Jamie, Jamie, you have a question. 3704 03:41:50,080 --> 03:41:53,320 Speaker 1: I probably good to see. Yeah, Um, I have two 3705 03:41:53,400 --> 03:41:55,320 Speaker 1: questions and I want to I'll cut it down to one. 3706 03:41:55,560 --> 03:41:58,680 Speaker 1: And so I'm large. Maria used to be at Pandora. 3707 03:41:58,959 --> 03:42:01,279 Speaker 1: The question that I have that I don't think anybody's 3708 03:42:01,280 --> 03:42:04,160 Speaker 1: asked you, what is the lowest hanging fruit that you 3709 03:42:04,600 --> 03:42:07,280 Speaker 1: think people are not picking off of Spotify right now? 3710 03:42:07,440 --> 03:42:09,480 Speaker 1: Used to drive me crazy that there were things I 3711 03:42:09,520 --> 03:42:12,520 Speaker 1: couldn't explain or I could explain, and people just wouldn't 3712 03:42:12,600 --> 03:42:14,160 Speaker 1: do it, Like what are they not doing? I mean, 3713 03:42:14,200 --> 03:42:16,440 Speaker 1: I think going back to what you say, People and 3714 03:42:16,560 --> 03:42:20,040 Speaker 1: lois just I'm talking about the the industry, you know, Um, 3715 03:42:20,320 --> 03:42:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, Mark was talking about how are you selling tickets? 3716 03:42:22,240 --> 03:42:24,480 Speaker 1: You're like, we just sold a hundred million dollars worth 3717 03:42:24,480 --> 03:42:27,640 Speaker 1: of tickets? Like what what across the board is the 3718 03:42:27,720 --> 03:42:29,560 Speaker 1: thing that people should be thinking about that they're not. 3719 03:42:31,200 --> 03:42:34,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, Um, I think I don't 3720 03:42:34,959 --> 03:42:37,600 Speaker 1: know if I have an answer for the low hanging fruit, 3721 03:42:37,760 --> 03:42:42,480 Speaker 1: but I do think the industry one of the biggest 3722 03:42:42,560 --> 03:42:48,279 Speaker 1: problems that I see is this sort of people haven't 3723 03:42:48,320 --> 03:42:52,280 Speaker 1: been able to differentiate. People haven't been able to fully 3724 03:42:52,400 --> 03:42:55,840 Speaker 1: move into a new model yet because people still think 3725 03:42:55,879 --> 03:43:00,080 Speaker 1: we're a retailer. We're not a retailer. Um. People's to 3726 03:43:00,280 --> 03:43:03,760 Speaker 1: think we're like radio, where we're not radio like so 3727 03:43:03,920 --> 03:43:07,160 Speaker 1: even down to the point where the people still haven't 3728 03:43:07,200 --> 03:43:10,080 Speaker 1: figured out who at the company should really interface with 3729 03:43:10,240 --> 03:43:12,480 Speaker 1: us yet. Should it be a promo guy, is that 3730 03:43:12,600 --> 03:43:15,680 Speaker 1: the sales team? Is it marketing? Like? So, I think 3731 03:43:15,760 --> 03:43:21,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of understanding that this is a totally new system. 3732 03:43:22,600 --> 03:43:25,200 Speaker 1: The way the old system work doesn't work with with 3733 03:43:25,400 --> 03:43:28,160 Speaker 1: with with this, with this new system. And then so 3734 03:43:28,720 --> 03:43:31,840 Speaker 1: so and even down to going back to I get 3735 03:43:31,959 --> 03:43:34,880 Speaker 1: so many calls from people that say, I'm at a 3736 03:43:34,959 --> 03:43:39,240 Speaker 1: million streams and I'm like, a million streams is nothing, Like, 3737 03:43:39,360 --> 03:43:42,000 Speaker 1: it's not there yet. You gotta get there, like it's 3738 03:43:42,200 --> 03:43:44,760 Speaker 1: um but because people in the record business think a 3739 03:43:44,840 --> 03:43:49,920 Speaker 1: million records your platinum, a million streams isn't platinum, you know. 3740 03:43:50,080 --> 03:43:53,560 Speaker 1: So it's like, so it's this sort of uh chasm 3741 03:43:53,680 --> 03:43:55,760 Speaker 1: you got that that hasn't been crossed yet. So if 3742 03:43:55,760 --> 03:43:58,160 Speaker 1: I can steal a quick follow up on that. Cycles, 3743 03:43:58,400 --> 03:44:02,480 Speaker 1: how do you do you have insight to tell everybody 3744 03:44:02,520 --> 03:44:05,600 Speaker 1: about cycles? And how I mean cycles are different now 3745 03:44:05,680 --> 03:44:09,000 Speaker 1: in a streaming with types of cycles, song cycles, uh, 3746 03:44:09,280 --> 03:44:13,400 Speaker 1: career cycles, album cycles, all of that, who's doing it? Right? So? 3747 03:44:13,680 --> 03:44:16,840 Speaker 1: So the way so I look at it as perpetual cycles, right, 3748 03:44:16,959 --> 03:44:19,640 Speaker 1: so it's not there's no more on on on and off. 3749 03:44:20,400 --> 03:44:24,320 Speaker 1: And you know what what we see now is, you know, 3750 03:44:24,640 --> 03:44:28,560 Speaker 1: you look at Um you know, two good examples of 3751 03:44:28,680 --> 03:44:33,000 Speaker 1: like a Bruno Mars or at Sharon where their former 3752 03:44:33,080 --> 03:44:40,960 Speaker 1: albums just continue to kind of perform well. And Chain 3753 03:44:41,040 --> 03:44:44,080 Speaker 1: Smokers there. You know, I think Adam and And and 3754 03:44:44,200 --> 03:44:47,600 Speaker 1: those guys are are really brilliant in terms of how 3755 03:44:47,680 --> 03:44:50,200 Speaker 1: they they're They're just innovative in their approach to to 3756 03:44:50,560 --> 03:44:54,120 Speaker 1: release the music, the hip hop game in general. I 3757 03:44:54,160 --> 03:44:57,480 Speaker 1: would just say, you know, they win blue you know, 3758 03:44:57,640 --> 03:45:01,280 Speaker 1: they win gold Star in terms of being able to um, 3759 03:45:02,040 --> 03:45:05,959 Speaker 1: to cater to new concert to the way consumers consume 3760 03:45:06,680 --> 03:45:10,840 Speaker 1: and um. And it's just it bugs me out because 3761 03:45:10,879 --> 03:45:15,320 Speaker 1: the record business we used to be so forward and 3762 03:45:17,560 --> 03:45:22,879 Speaker 1: how like when we we turned Tuesdays into events right 3763 03:45:23,040 --> 03:45:27,000 Speaker 1: where it was, you know, when we put out albums, 3764 03:45:27,080 --> 03:45:30,640 Speaker 1: the way we set up set up albums, film studios 3765 03:45:30,680 --> 03:45:33,160 Speaker 1: were envied away. You know that that that we did it. 3766 03:45:33,800 --> 03:45:40,600 Speaker 1: And but yet Netflix is kicking our ass and innovation 3767 03:45:41,040 --> 03:45:47,600 Speaker 1: of releases. You know, so when you released you know, 3768 03:45:48,680 --> 03:45:50,880 Speaker 1: I was telling I was at one of the record 3769 03:45:50,959 --> 03:45:53,840 Speaker 1: labels and they were talking about all of their new 3770 03:45:53,920 --> 03:45:57,640 Speaker 1: acts that broke on, you know, because I was complaining 3771 03:45:57,720 --> 03:46:01,480 Speaker 1: about artists development, and I'm like, you gotta build stars, 3772 03:46:01,720 --> 03:46:04,760 Speaker 1: Like just because they're getting streams don't mean that their stars. 3773 03:46:05,200 --> 03:46:07,520 Speaker 1: And they're telling me what we broke this act this year, 3774 03:46:07,640 --> 03:46:09,480 Speaker 1: this act, this year, this act this year, and this 3775 03:46:09,640 --> 03:46:13,080 Speaker 1: act this year. I said, I'll tell you what if 3776 03:46:14,200 --> 03:46:17,560 Speaker 1: you took those four artists right now and they got 3777 03:46:17,600 --> 03:46:19,720 Speaker 1: out of their car in front of the school that's 3778 03:46:19,760 --> 03:46:23,320 Speaker 1: across the street, and you took the kids from Stranger 3779 03:46:23,440 --> 03:46:27,320 Speaker 1: Things and they got out of the car, every kid's 3780 03:46:27,320 --> 03:46:31,080 Speaker 1: gonna run to the kids from Stranger things. Like that's 3781 03:46:31,240 --> 03:46:34,560 Speaker 1: this year's one direction. We don't have a one direction 3782 03:46:34,720 --> 03:46:37,880 Speaker 1: right now. That's one direction right now. You look at 3783 03:46:37,959 --> 03:46:44,279 Speaker 1: how we're still releasing single single, single album. You're releasing 3784 03:46:44,440 --> 03:46:48,199 Speaker 1: three singles before album, and Netflix is dropping the whole 3785 03:46:48,320 --> 03:46:52,560 Speaker 1: season on you day day one because everybody wants it there. 3786 03:46:52,840 --> 03:46:54,800 Speaker 1: And I asked the record I asked the record label, 3787 03:46:54,800 --> 03:46:56,240 Speaker 1: I said, why are you still doing it like that? 3788 03:46:56,560 --> 03:47:00,240 Speaker 1: Because the radio, you want to build up a an 3789 03:47:00,240 --> 03:47:04,400 Speaker 1: audience first, because the first week, first week means zero, 3790 03:47:05,400 --> 03:47:08,760 Speaker 1: first week means nothing anymore. So, so it's kind of 3791 03:47:08,840 --> 03:47:11,199 Speaker 1: just getting people to cross over to the new world. 3792 03:47:11,680 --> 03:47:15,320 Speaker 1: And and and I'm seeing some younger labels and some 3793 03:47:15,480 --> 03:47:19,359 Speaker 1: younger artists right now and that has no historical baggage. 3794 03:47:19,840 --> 03:47:22,959 Speaker 1: That are you know, plowing their way into into into 3795 03:47:23,040 --> 03:47:28,200 Speaker 1: the new world very quickly. Single album? If you're a 3796 03:47:28,280 --> 03:47:30,920 Speaker 1: new artist, should people even bother to make albums or 3797 03:47:30,959 --> 03:47:33,480 Speaker 1: continue to put out a continuous dreament product? If if 3798 03:47:33,520 --> 03:47:35,960 Speaker 1: you can make a great album, make an album. The 3799 03:47:36,040 --> 03:47:40,160 Speaker 1: problem is, you know, making a great album. That's a 3800 03:47:40,240 --> 03:47:46,000 Speaker 1: big challenge. Jamie. You said something, uh that really kind 3801 03:47:46,080 --> 03:47:51,280 Speaker 1: of perked my ears up a bit. Um. You said 3802 03:47:51,360 --> 03:47:54,760 Speaker 1: that radio is in trouble, and I absolutely agree. And 3803 03:47:54,840 --> 03:47:59,280 Speaker 1: I think that you're that Spotify's integration into automobiles is 3804 03:47:59,480 --> 03:48:02,560 Speaker 1: going to even put another nail in that coffin. But 3805 03:48:02,760 --> 03:48:05,959 Speaker 1: we aren't there yet. We aren't. Radio is not dead yet. 3806 03:48:06,600 --> 03:48:10,119 Speaker 1: So you had said something that you did with Gaga 3807 03:48:10,320 --> 03:48:15,760 Speaker 1: where it was um social media and YouTube and getting 3808 03:48:15,800 --> 03:48:17,520 Speaker 1: the music out there so that by the time it 3809 03:48:17,600 --> 03:48:21,120 Speaker 1: went to radio and they were doing their testing, that 3810 03:48:21,560 --> 03:48:24,280 Speaker 1: everybody was already familiar with it, so it tested really well. 3811 03:48:25,560 --> 03:48:29,280 Speaker 1: Later you said that labels kind of have to pick. 3812 03:48:29,840 --> 03:48:32,640 Speaker 1: Are you going to go the radio route where you 3813 03:48:32,720 --> 03:48:35,800 Speaker 1: put a half million dollars behind a track, or are 3814 03:48:35,920 --> 03:48:39,960 Speaker 1: you going to go the Spotify route? And like, I 3815 03:48:40,920 --> 03:48:43,600 Speaker 1: does a label really have to choose or should they 3816 03:48:43,760 --> 03:48:45,640 Speaker 1: just be working it back? So let me let me 3817 03:48:45,680 --> 03:48:48,120 Speaker 1: clarify it. So so I don't think you have to 3818 03:48:48,200 --> 03:48:52,040 Speaker 1: choose between going to Spotify or going to radio. So 3819 03:48:52,160 --> 03:48:55,320 Speaker 1: I was talking specifically around if you have a single 3820 03:48:56,280 --> 03:49:02,400 Speaker 1: and you start the single off and Spotify, by the 3821 03:49:02,600 --> 03:49:05,920 Speaker 1: time you build up that big enough story for radio, 3822 03:49:06,600 --> 03:49:09,200 Speaker 1: chances are it's gonna be old. That single is gonna 3823 03:49:09,240 --> 03:49:12,880 Speaker 1: be over on our platform. Yes, so so, but what 3824 03:49:13,000 --> 03:49:16,560 Speaker 1: we get a lot is complaints that we're not hanging 3825 03:49:16,600 --> 03:49:19,840 Speaker 1: in there long enough on the single because it's not building, 3826 03:49:19,920 --> 03:49:23,280 Speaker 1: it's not uh linking in uh, it's not fused with 3827 03:49:23,320 --> 03:49:28,400 Speaker 1: their radio stories essentially. And I think for us, it's 3828 03:49:28,440 --> 03:49:32,160 Speaker 1: not our that that's just not our problem because because 3829 03:49:32,240 --> 03:49:36,120 Speaker 1: only we gotta we gotta do we have to build 3830 03:49:36,160 --> 03:49:39,040 Speaker 1: the great experience for the consumer. That's the like, that's 3831 03:49:39,080 --> 03:49:41,120 Speaker 1: our number one thing. It has to be a great 3832 03:49:41,160 --> 03:49:44,640 Speaker 1: experience for the consumer. And um so so that's where 3833 03:49:44,800 --> 03:49:47,600 Speaker 1: that's the sort of catch twenty two that we're finding. 3834 03:49:48,360 --> 03:49:51,880 Speaker 1: You know, some some of the labels in Okay, this gentleman, 3835 03:49:51,880 --> 03:49:56,000 Speaker 1: this is the last question for now, my Troy. UM 3836 03:49:56,680 --> 03:49:59,400 Speaker 1: a bit of a tech nerd question because you were 3837 03:49:59,440 --> 03:50:04,080 Speaker 1: saying you've building out a marketplace and then Daniel living 3838 03:50:04,400 --> 03:50:08,160 Speaker 1: ten years ahead of us. How much is which extent 3839 03:50:08,680 --> 03:50:16,760 Speaker 1: is AI and blockchain part of the discussion? UM? You know, UM, 3840 03:50:17,880 --> 03:50:20,320 Speaker 1: some I can comment on, some I can't comment on. UM. 3841 03:50:20,480 --> 03:50:24,320 Speaker 1: I think it's just AI in general. You know, it's 3842 03:50:27,160 --> 03:50:30,200 Speaker 1: the future, you know, I think, you know, machine learning 3843 03:50:30,240 --> 03:50:32,240 Speaker 1: as part of what we already do in terms if 3844 03:50:32,280 --> 03:50:35,280 Speaker 1: you look at Discover weekly, Discover weekly as machine learning 3845 03:50:35,880 --> 03:50:40,840 Speaker 1: and UM, and I think the more data that you 3846 03:50:40,960 --> 03:50:43,840 Speaker 1: get the better than machines get. Right, So I think 3847 03:50:43,880 --> 03:50:47,560 Speaker 1: it's gonna play a huge role. And I don't think 3848 03:50:47,600 --> 03:50:51,320 Speaker 1: it necessarily has as much to do with marketplace as 3849 03:50:51,440 --> 03:50:54,360 Speaker 1: much as it has to do with the personalization that 3850 03:50:54,560 --> 03:50:57,240 Speaker 1: that that that we're talking about and just being able 3851 03:50:57,280 --> 03:50:59,720 Speaker 1: to make the experience better for you when you when 3852 03:50:59,720 --> 03:51:02,680 Speaker 1: you up come on the platform. But I just don't think, 3853 03:51:02,760 --> 03:51:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, we we kind of got a sense that 3854 03:51:05,360 --> 03:51:07,920 Speaker 1: where machine learning is gonna gonna take us, the marketplace 3855 03:51:08,120 --> 03:51:12,120 Speaker 1: was more directed towards the block chain. I can't comment, 3856 03:51:13,280 --> 03:51:16,240 Speaker 1: thank you, but you've been very open and honest. We've 3857 03:51:16,280 --> 03:51:26,280 Speaker 1: put you through the rigger for two hours. And by 3858 03:51:26,320 --> 03:51:29,360 Speaker 1: the way, I love Bob and Aga Hattie's conversations. I say, 3859 03:51:29,640 --> 03:51:31,480 Speaker 1: I got so many questions in my head, and I mean, 3860 03:51:31,560 --> 03:51:34,440 Speaker 1: we're off the audience. But when I say, on some level, 3861 03:51:34,480 --> 03:51:37,160 Speaker 1: we only scratched the surface. That's supposed to Howard Stern 3862 03:51:37,240 --> 03:51:39,640 Speaker 1: saying you said everything, You've only said a little bit. 3863 03:51:40,360 --> 03:51:42,760 Speaker 1: But it's been so wonderful that you've come here and 3864 03:51:43,120 --> 03:51:46,560 Speaker 1: uh endured this for two hours. Troy, thanks again, thank you, 3865 03:51:46,720 --> 03:51:56,840 Speaker 1: thank you. I'm sure you dug that I loved. Troy 3866 03:51:56,920 --> 03:52:00,800 Speaker 1: is such an animated character, whether he's telling stories working 3867 03:52:00,840 --> 03:52:04,000 Speaker 1: in Spotify now, are hustling back in the early days 3868 03:52:04,320 --> 03:52:10,520 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and in California. So once again you're listening 3869 03:52:10,600 --> 03:52:14,640 Speaker 1: to the Bob left Sex Podcast Troy Carter, recorded live 3870 03:52:15,000 --> 03:52:18,720 Speaker 1: at the Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara, California. I 3871 03:52:18,920 --> 03:52:22,240 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this conversation. I know you love Troy 3872 03:52:22,440 --> 03:52:25,880 Speaker 1: just like me. Until next time, I'm Bob left Sez 3873 03:52:30,880 --> 03:52:36,240 Speaker 1: Meta