1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Bolthouse Farms has been around 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: for more than a hundred years, literally more than a century, 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: but since it's split off from Campbell it's sort of 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: been able to go its own way and do some 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: interesting things R and D wise, let's bring in the 11 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: CEO now, Jeff Don, to give us a rundown on 12 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: what exactly Bolthouse Farms is planning for the future. Jeff, 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: great to have you. We all know you for your 14 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: carrots and for all of those wonderful juices and so on. 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: But you have big plans for the plant based economy. 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: Talked us about those plans. Well, hey, Bonnie, thanks for 17 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: having me. So the plant based economy tasks is really 18 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: twofold one. At the consuming level, it's the shift that's 19 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: already happening towards a more flexitarian diet, and that flexitarian 20 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: diet is really grounded against people looking to eat less 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: animal proteins and just get more plants and into their diet, 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: because it's clear that's a great help outcome for people. 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: And the second piece is that you know, the produce industry, 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: we've been in carrots for a long time, and plant based, 25 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: which is more technology driven, are trying emerging into a 26 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: different kind of economy and I think that goes to 27 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: regenera agriculture. So when you talk about plant based economy, 28 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: it goes to consumer products, but it also goes to 29 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: a more sustainable future, and I think those two things 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: are what's really driving it across the globe. Jeff, can 31 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: you give us some examples of what you mean by 32 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: plant based? So you know, I think I think we 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: know some of the very obvious ones, but what I 34 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: what are some of the new ones you're developing. Yeah, 35 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: So for both House we're starting to leverage off our 36 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: care adheritage. So we're just in the process of launching 37 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: a hole new platform called one of Roots, uh and 38 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: wonder Roots is really about meat and and carb swaps. 39 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: We call them replacements. So three different product lines were launching. 40 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: The first is kind of carrot feta changing, which is 41 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, carrot sliced into fetic geney noodles. You've seen 42 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: things like you know, cauliflower rice and squashed noodles. These 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: we think and their meal kits. So this goes to 44 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: people homing. You know, what's happened post COVID is people 45 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: spending a lot more time at home and cooking. So 46 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: a feta chainey kit, a rice uh side kit, same thing, 47 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: flavored rice, but carrot based, not rice based. And then 48 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: probably the one that's most exciting the carrot hot dogs. 49 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: So carrot hot dogs is directly going at you know, 50 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: regular hot dogs. It's a whole carrot that's been brined 51 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: and seasoned and you cook it just like a hot dog. 52 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: And that's that's hard. Probably big spring introduction coming up. 53 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: That one is a lot of fun. That's amazing. Now, 54 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: do you need preservatives and things in there? What else 55 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: isn't there? Nope? Nope nothing. What we do is we 56 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: take whole carrots and we're shaved down with hot and 57 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: we rhynd them, you know, brianing, just put it in 58 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: a kind of liquid and spice for a while, and 59 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: then we use pressure high pressure pasteurization to you know, 60 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: make it to make it stable, right, so it has 61 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: some shelf life, but there's no preservatives. It's a fresh 62 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: product and we ship it out. And the thing about 63 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: it is you put it on a grill, you put 64 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: it in paying cooking, just like a hot dog, and 65 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: it bites like a hot dog. It's it's really funny. 66 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: One of our R and D guys came up with 67 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: this crazy idea of meat swaps and he said, I 68 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: think we can make carrots replace whole series of meat 69 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: ideas and he started with a hot dog. Uh. And 70 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: you know, we have a big plans across this because 71 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: the consumers telling us they want flexitarian options, you know, 72 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: they want to eat less meat, but they don't want 73 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: to give up the fun and the familiarity of things 74 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: like hot dogs and Ambergers, which is really the strength 75 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: of Beyond and impossible. It really played into that trend. Yeah. 76 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: I mean with this, I see baseball stadiums and games 77 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: becoming more healthy all over the colt. Can you imagine. 78 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm a big Dodger fan right now. We've got a 79 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: big game tonight, and you know we're going to launch 80 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: in the spring and we might just show up at 81 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of baseball games next year and you know, 82 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: the season opens, it's a great opportunity to expose people 83 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 1: to this new product. Well, that's for sure. I'll take 84 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: my commission now, thank you. Is is immigration policy difficult 85 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: for you right now? The Trump administration obviously having an 86 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: impact on farm labor shortages? Has it been resolved? What 87 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: have you done? It's it's you know, in California, it's 88 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: very difficult. It's left difficult for us because we're pretty 89 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: highly automated, We're much less labor dependent, and a lot 90 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: of other commodities, you know, care it is. You know, 91 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: we use a lot of machines unless people, but across 92 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: the board with all of our farming partners, very very 93 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: difficult immigration issue combined with COVID so COVID you know, 94 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: difficult enough in a manufacturing environment. We've done a lot 95 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: of work to keep our our employees safe. But think 96 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: about a field environment people field harvesting it. You know, 97 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: you can spread them out, but those people live in 98 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: shared housing and it's just really really difficult. Yeah, it's um, 99 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: it's hard. It's very, very very hard. What what are 100 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: your plans for staffing up? Should it become you know, 101 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: I mean, say, say the current administration continues on, do 102 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: you then sort of have to you know, look at alternatives. 103 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: Do you have two base cases in mind for post election? Yeah, 104 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: we actually do, because we actually think it's such a 105 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: binary choice whatever your politics are, there different creations pretty clear, uh, 106 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: and you have to be prepared for either one now. 107 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: Now either way, we think automation and technology, which is 108 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: really part of you know, we brought this business back 109 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: from Camell's a year ago, stop for a year ago, 110 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: and so one of the things that you know makes 111 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: a plant based so interesting is obviously you're growing things 112 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: in the ground and our ability to have the right 113 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: kind of rotations where generative agriculture is a terminal here 114 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: a lot over the next ten years. And it's usual 115 00:05:55,040 --> 00:06:00,039 Speaker 1: really agriculture to sequester carbon back into the soil. And 116 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: and that is a function of you know, your farming 117 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: kind of practices and you know, no till farming, a 118 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: whole series of things. And so what I actually think 119 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: farming is going through a massive change right now. It's 120 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: going to become less people, you know in kind of 121 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: raw labor dependent and much more about machine learning and 122 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: ultimately robots. You know, it's it's all about automation because 123 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: to feed the growing population globally, you know, farming has 124 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: to evolve and really adopt a modern technology. And that's 125 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: happening at a very aggressive ray Jeff. A fascinating conversation 126 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: and a very very good luck to you for these 127 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: new products, and uh, you know, it's it's it's a 128 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: great time to be launching. And I suppose also a 129 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: difficult time with consumers under a little bit of pressure. 130 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: So do come back and tell us how it all goes. 131 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: Bolt House Farms CEO, Jeff done there. And my takeaway 132 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: from that was, I can't wait to taste this, uh 133 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: this hot carrots substitute for hot dog. This is Boomberg. 134 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: Well it is times were Bomberg Opinion and we have 135 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: a host of wonderful opinion columnists, none more so than 136 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: Brian Schapatta, who's our debt columnist here at Bloomberg Opinion. 137 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: And Bryan writes about debt markets, which are always fascinating. 138 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: But the column I want to look at today is 139 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: about the Goldman clawbacks. Yes you heard that right. Those 140 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: two words you don't very often hear in the same sentence. 141 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: There were massive clawbacks from some very top level Goldman 142 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: executives announced just this week, and Brian Chapatta is here 143 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: to tell us exactly why it has to do with 144 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: one MDB. And if you don't know, Bryan, would you 145 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: give us a little synopsis of what the one MDB 146 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: scandal was? Yeah, I mean it was. It was pretty 147 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: bad by even by Wall Street standards. Um. Goldman effectively 148 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to having a role in this scheme that 149 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: diverted billions of dollars that were supposed to go to 150 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: economic development in Malaysia into a whole variety of of 151 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: of frivolous things in a lot of ways, high end 152 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: our real estate, a super yacht, even the movie Wolf 153 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: of Wall Street. So it was a bad look and 154 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: it was Goldman's first guilty plea ever through the small 155 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: Malaysian unit um. And so what's interesting, I think is 156 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: the fact that actually some of the top executives were 157 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: held accountable to the tune of a hundred seventy four 158 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: million dollars. And the reason that's so fascinating is because 159 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: you really don't see this ever. Usually the bank pays 160 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: of fine and the top executives may or may not 161 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, issue a Mayo copa. But they don't have, 162 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, monetary penalties. They certainly don't go to jail 163 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: in this case, at least what a dozen top current 164 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: and former executives, including CEO David Solomon and the previous 165 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: CEO Lloyd Blank Fine have to pay up to the 166 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: tune of Walpine exactly. Um. I mean when the news 167 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: first came out, there was this, uh, there was this 168 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: thing called the deferred prosecution Agreement, um, which basically was 169 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,359 Speaker 1: a win for Goldman Sachs because if they had been convicted, 170 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: they would have risked losing some institutional aliance. UM. So 171 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: they really haven't lost any business from this. But the 172 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: question is going to be how do you save face? 173 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: How do you show to share Hold that we are 174 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: keeping some accountability here, And that ultimately came in the 175 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: form of digging David Sullivan, like Blank Blank find as 176 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: you said, um of millions of dollars. Half of the 177 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: total of the one seventy four million is going to 178 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: be from three people who were directly implicated in the 179 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: actual one and one MDB scheme. But but yeah, actually 180 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: going after Solomon and Blank Find was was pretty significant. Right, 181 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: because David Solomon continues to lead Goldman sax salary is 182 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: what about twenty seven million dollars, So presumably if half 183 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: of the four is spread out between him and a 184 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: few more that that's going to hurt. Yeah, exactly. And 185 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: I think what's going to be interesting going forward, um, 186 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: because one of my colleagues over in London wrote this 187 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: week about the Morgan Stanley departures because they had issues 188 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: with WhatsApp, I think, um. And so it's gonna be 189 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: interesting to see because there has been this whole question 190 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: about how much oversight bankers can have UM during this 191 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: work from Home era over the past several months. If 192 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 1: there is more wrongdoing that comes out, is this going 193 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: to set a precedent that you have to you have 194 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: to keep the top level accountable? Um? And if so, 195 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: what does that mean for mean for Wall Street? But 196 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: I think there is this lingering effect from the financial 197 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: crisis where bankers were seen as running rampant and doing 198 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: things that ultimately hurt the little guy in this you know, 199 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: in some cases it was it was people who are 200 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: buying homes. In this case it's Malaysia. But either way, 201 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: I think there is a perception on wall streets that 202 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: they have to at least outwardly show some sort of 203 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: remorse above and beyond just saying sorry. It's interesting because 204 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: we saw after the financial crisis just how difficult it 205 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: is to actually, you know, prosecute or hold accountable executives 206 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: of a corporation. I remember one of the you know 207 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: justices in in New York wrote a long article explaining 208 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: it's just really really difficult, in uh in the lower 209 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: worlds to actually have this happen. So what happened here? 210 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: Did Goldman just pony up itself or or did somebody 211 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: legally make Goldman do this? Right? Well, I I my 212 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: understanding is that it's basically Goldman saying that we that 213 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: that we're holding our executives accountable. I mean effectively they're 214 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: paying um various regulators these massive billion dollar fines. And ultimately, 215 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: what who that hurts is it hurts the shareholders, right 216 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: because that's what's money at the company to pay out, 217 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: and it's less profitability for Goldman um. But if you 218 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: call back the money from top executives, that actually benefits 219 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: shareholders ultimately, because that's money that they're that they're taking 220 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: back putting back into the business rather than paying it 221 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: out to the likes of of its Solomon or Voyd 222 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: Fline Finn. Now, given that it's Goldman, Pang and Goldman 223 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: saying that it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to 224 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: see more of this in the future, does it. No? Yeah, 225 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean it basically comes down to what banks think 226 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: is the right move. Um. And I'd want to be 227 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: interested to see if this is the start of something 228 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: or if it's just kind of This was such a big, 229 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: one off, huge global scandal from regulators across multiple countries 230 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: that Goldman felt that it was just such a there 231 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: was such a stain on on their reputation that they 232 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: had to go above and beyond what what was typical. Um. 233 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: It's hard to it's hard to think of anything that 234 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: that that could amount to something similar to this, But 235 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: we'll have to see. And just for anybody interested, I 236 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: want to make clear that that article I was referring 237 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: to was from U S. District Judge jed Rakoff of 238 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: New York and it was at the very end of 239 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen and it appeared in the New York 240 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: Review of Books on The essential essay question was why 241 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: haven't the financial egs, I could have been prosecuted, and 242 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: his point was, well, it's really just bleep hard. So Brian, 243 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: what are you working on today and what corners of 244 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: the dead markets are you looking at? Well, I'm interested 245 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: in uh in treasuries right now. Obviously it's a big 246 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: potential trade ahead of the election. UM expectations that if 247 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: there is in fact Democratic sweep, that that would usher 248 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: in a wave of fiscal stimulus and yields would go 249 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: up quite significantly. UM. Right now, the tenure yield, the 250 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: benchmark is right at its two day moving average and 251 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: is not breaking through, which is interesting because it raises 252 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: the question of our bond traders just skittish ahead of 253 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: the election, or are they maybe you know, holding back 254 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: on bets for Democrats taking both the White House and 255 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: the Senate in addition to holding the House. So a 256 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of positioning ahead of the election, 257 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: I think is what a lot of markets are entirely 258 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: focused on right now. I was speaking with Edi Ardny yesterday. 259 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: Of course, widely known on Mall Street were his bond calls. 260 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: He says roughly the same thing, that we could see 261 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: the ten years help one percent if that happens, but 262 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: he's looking for the Federal Reserve to actually put in 263 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: a yield curve control range of a half percent to 264 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: three quarters of a percent. What do you make of that, Bryan, Yeah, 265 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean I think that's kind of the feeling out 266 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: there right now, that that the FED is going to 267 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: cap long and yields if they start to rise to 268 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: dramatically for the wrong reasons. Um. But I do wonder 269 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: to the extent that if it's basically bond traders are 270 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: betting that there's going to be fiscal stimulus and it's 271 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: going to get to a lower income, unemployed people who 272 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: will spend it into the economy and kind of revitalize 273 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: US economic growth. I'm not necessarily sure that FED would 274 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: push back on that. I'm sure they'd like to do that. Yeah, absolutely, Brian. 275 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: Thank you. Brian Schapatta Bloomberg Opinion, Dead columnist Currency, but 276 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: also writes on many many things will Street related for 277 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion. All right, it's time for all we can 278 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: check in with Laurence Sower JOHNS. Hompkins University, Assistant Professor 279 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: of Emergency Medicine. Laurence, thank you so much for joining 280 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: once again, always wonderful to speak with you. I guess 281 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: let's first take the temperature of where we're at. We 282 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: just had a record number in once again from Italy. 283 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: It seems like cases that are going up all around 284 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: the world. Where is it most concerning? Yeah, I think 285 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: UM in the US, especially in rural communities and across 286 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: the Midwest, that's very concerning. It is concerning in many 287 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: places in Europe UM, and we are starting to seek 288 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: places closed down. I believe France just the sheet another 289 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: lots and as well. UM. So I think when you 290 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: adjust for the population, the coronavirus infections in the European 291 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: Union and UK are are have surpassed the US. I 292 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: think both areas are particularly concerning. UM. You know, I 293 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: think as we enter into blue season, UM, we have 294 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: a lot to be worried about. Presumably people will be 295 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: getting there for shots all over the country. Is there 296 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: anything that you would like to say to help convince 297 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: people that yes they should. Yeah, flu shots are really important. 298 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: They're always really important, but never more than this flu season. UM. 299 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: We've heard a lot in the media and in scientific 300 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: reports about UM the southern hemisphere is flu season being 301 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: sort of suppressed and possibly because of the control measures 302 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: of COVID, but all the more reason to make sure 303 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: you go out, you get that flu shot. You protect 304 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: yourself here um. As we enter into flu season in 305 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: the northern hemisphere, you know, we may not see that 306 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: same dampening of cases. We may see a strong flu season, 307 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: and you want to protect yourself both from the flu 308 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: um and reduce your likelihood of needing to be in 309 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: the hospital, so you reduce your exposure to COVID nineteen, 310 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: but also to say that space in the hospital for 311 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: people with COVID nineteen who may need it, may need 312 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: that same you know, respiratory care that a really bad 313 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: case of flu could could cause, and we're seeing some 314 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: states have difficulty with that at the moment in the Midwest. 315 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: My colleagues and Hagarl allerged to me did this study 316 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: showing that universal masking could save some one and thirty 317 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: thousand lives by the end of February. This is an 318 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: analysis which appeared today actually in the journal Nature Medicine. 319 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: Without masks, half a million people could die, according to researchers. 320 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 1: I mean, Lauren, is there anything you can say about that. 321 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: I know you may not have been involved in this 322 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: particular research project, but there's no reason to disbelieve it 323 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: is there. No, absolutely not. I mean I haven't seen 324 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 1: this particular study, but I think as we get more 325 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: and more information and more and more research being conducted 326 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: on the use of masks, what we're learning is that 327 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: they're very effective. Um. There are low cost, low risk impact, 328 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: and they can have a potential to reduce a lot 329 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: of spread and protect the most vulnerable community. Is because remember, 330 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, we like to say my mask is for you, 331 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: your mask is for me. So really what you're doing 332 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: is um putting that protection out into the community. Whenever 333 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: you wear a mask with very little um pretend to 334 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: risk to yourself. We've you know, there are many scientists, 335 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: myself included, who were somewhat dubious in the beginning of 336 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: the pandemic about the impact that masks may have on 337 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: on spread. But we have learned so much and there's 338 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: so much rigorous research conducted around their efficacy. So now 339 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: it's definitely the time to mask up. What does it 340 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: mean to you that Ramdasa here now has the fd A. No, 341 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: this is the guilliad drug that President Tom used. Yeah, 342 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: so um, right now, I think there's a lot of 343 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: conversations happening around whether or not that FDA appogal was appropriate. UM. 344 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: I think everyone sort of felt like the FBA Emergency 345 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: use authorization was appropriate. UM. There's a lot of questions 346 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: around whether or not the data as a whole UM 347 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: sort of indicate that that act that m M deserve 348 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: is effective. But I think one of the takeaways for 349 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: me is that that ACT study, the very first UM 350 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: major drug in that act, an aged trial included remdzevir 351 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 1: with a placebo arms. The study was blinded, and and 352 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: that is strong evidence that remdzevir actually works. UM. It's 353 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: shortened the duration of symptoms UH in people in those 354 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: requiring oxygen. So we know that for a certain subset 355 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: of the population. We see in a very rigorous scientific 356 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: study that remdes of your work. So I think you know, 357 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: when you think about it, together with the with some 358 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: of the other trials that weren't his UH that didn't 359 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: have a strength of study design, UM, it makes sense 360 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: to move it forward to approval. UM. I think overall 361 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: will continue to gather evidence on remdesivie, particularly UM now 362 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: that it will be standard of care in a lot 363 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: of places UM, But I think it's I think it 364 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: was the right move here. What will be next? Lauren? 365 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: And we've had some some bad news about a trial 366 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: being stopped the other day, but now it looks like 367 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: the person who died was that to be given the placebo, 368 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: so it may have had nothing at all to do 369 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: with the actual trial and so on. This is the 370 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: Oxford Astra Zeneca. Any reason to believe that we're not 371 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: proceeding full speed ahead with everything that's out there already, No, 372 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we're going to see these adverse events, 373 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: and it is important to understand UM and for the 374 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: companies to be forthcoming about whether or not the UM 375 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: participants were in the placebo or the study, drug arm 376 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: or vaccine arm UM. The evidence right now is being 377 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: gathered right so, so we can't make visions on the 378 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: safety or the efficacy from these single events UM. And 379 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: there are entire data safety monitoring boards put in place 380 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: to do these interim analyzes to assess whether stopping is appropriate, 381 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: to look at these adverse events and make sure that 382 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: the study can continue or not depending on what that 383 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: they find, and so we have to trust that process. Now, 384 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: I think we will see that as more and more 385 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: evidences gathered um that they'll make decisions on it. But 386 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: for now, seeing these events happen is what we want 387 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: to see the process working. Lauren, Thank you as always 388 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: or weekly check in with Lauren Sower Johns Hopkins University, 389 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine. Very very grateful. It's a 390 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: fantastic interactive article slash old platform read if you like. 391 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: The author is David Yaffi Belonie and it's on the 392 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: big legal threats Trump will face if he loses the election. 393 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: It's out today and you really need to read this. 394 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: David joins us now, David, thank you for joining. Pleasure 395 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: to have you, thank you for having me. So there's 396 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: a list in this of you know, the types of 397 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: things that President Trump could face, including, let's begin at 398 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: the beginning, possible criminal charges for obstruction of justice, campaign 399 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: finance violations, federal tax charges, New York state tax charges. 400 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't end. Yeah, I think that the 401 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: issues that most people are familiar with from the you know, 402 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: roughly year and a half we spent talking about Robert 403 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: Mueller's investigation into the President's contacts with Russia. Are these 404 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: possible obstruction of justice charges. Um. The actions that might 405 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: lead to those types of charges were laid out pretty 406 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: clearly in the Mueller Report. UM. And as president Trump 407 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: was immune from any actual criminal prosecution stemming from that, 408 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: it's a long standing Justice Department policy not to charge 409 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: the president with a criminal offense. But when he leaves office, 410 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: he becomes potentially vulnerable to those charges. Presumably there are 411 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: teams of people and all sorts of law firms and 412 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: projects and especially formed groups ready to do just that. 413 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: Give us a list or a lineup of the types 414 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: of people we might see doing it. So, to some extent, 415 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: it will depend on who President Joe Biden puts in 416 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: his Justice Department. UM, the attorney General. The new attorney 417 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: General would be certainly largely possible for making the decision 418 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: about whether to pursue federal criminal charges against the president. 419 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that's something that Biden himself would certainly weigh 420 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: in on as well. And there are major reasons to 421 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: think that a Biden administration might not want to do that, 422 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: even if they have the evidence and the ability to 423 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: do it, just because it would be uh such a 424 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: major political event. UM that would continue to divide the 425 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: country at a time when Lue suspects the next president 426 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: would want to unify the country. UM, but other other 427 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: figures outside the federal government. Sidance is the district attorney 428 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: in Manhattan who has been investigating Trump's finances his tax 429 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: practices for a couple of years now. Of course, he 430 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: went to the Supreme Court in an effort to force 431 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: Trump to turn over his tax returns. Won that battle, 432 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: Um is sort of continuing to fight it in the 433 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: lower courts as expected at some point soon to get 434 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: ahold of Trump's taxes, and that will factor into the 435 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: state level investigation that sith Ance in New York is doing. 436 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: Um Latitia James, who is the Attorney General of the 437 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: state of New York, is doing a separate civil investigation 438 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: into Trump's real estate practices. Because it's a civil inquiry 439 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: that wouldn't involve criminal charges, the penalties would be economic 440 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: if she found something as part of that investigation, there's 441 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: some people have speculated that, you know, it could turn 442 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: into a criminal inquiry if if she turns up something 443 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: that that warrants it. So those are some of the 444 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: key figures who will be involved in these types of decisions. 445 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: If Trump loses, and is there any reason to suggest 446 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: that some of these people might team up or will 447 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: they all want to go their own separate way. So 448 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: these are all separate jurisdictions, but there's I mean, these 449 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: people will certainly all be communicating. Um, the Biden Justice 450 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: Department would I'm sure to get on the film with 451 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: scith Ance in New York and find out what he's 452 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: looking at, whether there are leads they can share, you know, 453 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: whether their investigations are overlapping in various ways. I'm sure 454 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: there'd be a similar level of communication between the teacher 455 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: James and cive ants. So yes, I mean these investigations 456 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: or potential prosecutions you know, you know, could continue along 457 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: separate path, but I certainly imagine will be communication among 458 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: the decision makers. What about private people taking cases against 459 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: the president? Will that happen? Yeah, I mean that's that's 460 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: already been happening. One of the one of the cases 461 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: that we looked at, Um, there's a group of an 462 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: anonymous group of investors who are basically arguing that Trump 463 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: encouraged them to invest in a multi tier marketing scheme 464 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: that eventually went bust and they lost a lot of money. 465 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: And are blaming, blaming Trump and a few of his 466 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: children for that. So that's the that's an example of 467 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: the type of lawsuit that we might continue to see 468 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: or maybe see see more of. Obviously, it's possible to 469 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: bring those lawsuits even when he's still president, um, but 470 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: when he's no longer president, he loses all sorts of 471 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: legal arguments that allow him to drag these things out 472 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: to avoid handing over evidence or sitting deposition or testifying 473 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: a potential trial trial down the line. So the obstacles 474 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: that would face people, you know, hoping to bring those 475 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: sorts of lawsuits would sort of begin to dissipate. You 476 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: also in your article talk about where things stand and 477 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: what happens if if President Trump, who by then may 478 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: or may not still be president, loses these different suits. 479 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: So one of them is Summers or was his defamation suits, 480 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: the eating Carol deformation suits, the Mary Trump fraud suit, 481 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: and then there's also the multiple level of marketing fraud suits, 482 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: so that the president could be locked up in these 483 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:42,239 Speaker 1: in these suits for decades to come. I mean, right, yeah, well, 484 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: I mean with these with these existing suits, I don't 485 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: know about a decade, but you know, certainly years. And 486 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: then if more litigation emerges, then obviously that could you know, 487 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: stretch on and on. I mean, I think that one 488 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: of the main threats that he faces in the in 489 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: the two defamation suits is that in the eating Carol case, 490 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: you could Justice the part is attempting to substitute for 491 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: him as the defendant in the case, which would essentially 492 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: cause the case to to disappear because you can't actually 493 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: sue the government for for defamation. You know, if if 494 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: he if he loses the election, then you know, it's 495 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: unlikely the Justice Department would continue kind of fighting for 496 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: him in that way. So he loses, he loses that defense. 497 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: And then in the in the Summer Servs case, his 498 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: big argument has been that the president is immune from 499 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: state level civil suits. And obviously if he's no longer 500 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: president and that doesn't apply anymore. So in both those cases, 501 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, relatively soon he could be in a position 502 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: where he has to give DNA evidence, he has to 503 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: fit for a deposition. Um. You know, that's not the 504 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: same as going to jail, but um it's embarrassing and 505 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: it could lead to two revelations that could be harmful 506 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: to him or the financial penalties down the line. Briefly, 507 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: will there be I mean there will be obviously, you know, 508 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: any amount of groups that are ready to back the president. 509 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: But if he's not president anymore, will they be as 510 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: likely to you know, I mean, he'll lose the resources 511 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: of the Justice Department because he'll no longer be the 512 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: head of the executive branch. Um. But he'll still be 513 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: able to hire expensive law firms to represent him in 514 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: all these cases. Um. You know, in some of these 515 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: cases is already being represented by his private lawyers. You 516 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: know nothing about those relationships. But change if he loses, 517 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: but he loses legal arguments. You know, I'm the president. 518 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: Therefore I don't have time to deal with this litigation. 519 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: I'm the president. I'm immune to this kind of investigation. 520 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: He loses all that, and he loses the resources of 521 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: the Justice Department. So those are those are major blows, 522 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: even if they don't mean that he'll be out in 523 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: the cold on his own, um, you know, on on January. Yes, 524 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: by the end of January's called the opening nine of 525 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: your article. President Trump has more at stake in this 526 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: election than whether he remains in the pointe House. Are 527 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: Thanks to David Yuffy Belany, who has this story out 528 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Today. It's it's essentially that the big 529 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: legal threats Trump will face if he loses the election. 530 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe 531 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast 532 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on Twitter at 533 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: Bonnie Quinn. And Paul Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. 534 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at 535 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio