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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: To the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast

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Speaker 1: with me, Tom Verducci and Joe Madden.

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Speaker 2: Joe, how is your holiday weekend?

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Speaker 3: It was wonderful, Tommy. I played every day Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday,

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Speaker 3: little picnic at the Lindy's last night. Yeah, the weather

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Speaker 3: was wormed up a little bit. Also air rating today

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Speaker 3: the back nine. How about that? So I only got

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Speaker 3: the front nine to play. But overall a really good time.

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Speaker 3: And how about yourself down there in Princeton.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, man, As you said, the weather was great, A

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Speaker 1: little golfing, a little biking, a little swimming in the pool.

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Speaker 1: It was perfect way to end or so unofficially in

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Speaker 1: the summer. And by the way, I capped the weekend

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Speaker 1: by doing the Orioles Angels game on FS one.

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Speaker 3: OK.

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Speaker 1: And we've got to start with that because these angels,

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Speaker 1: your angels, Joe Madden, keep giving us angel moments.

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Speaker 2: How about this? This is so angels.

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Speaker 1: They get back off a road trip and show Hey,

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Speaker 1: o'tani who like rarely, if ever, takes batting practice on

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Speaker 1: the field.

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Speaker 2: It's very unusual for him to hit on the field.

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Speaker 1: Decides, first day back at home, he's going to hit

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Speaker 1: on the field. The batting practice picture throws him a

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Speaker 1: nasty cutter down and end. He tries to hold up

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Speaker 1: his swing and there goes his oblique. He had to

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Speaker 1: walk out of the cage, off the field, scratched, not

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Speaker 1: in the lineup for the first time since May second.

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Speaker 1: And Joe, you know how these oblique things go. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we don't know yet the severity of the injury,

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Speaker 1: but there's a possibility because those things sometimes, if you

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Speaker 1: do it badly enough, can be weeks. That may be

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Speaker 1: the last time we see shoe hey Otani in an

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Speaker 1: angel's uniform. That to me is just such an angel's moment.

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Speaker 1: And of course this came basically minutes after his agent,

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Speaker 1: Nez Bolelo, talked about show Hayes elbow. Of course, he

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Speaker 1: has the tear in the UCL and nes to Nobody's surprised,

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Speaker 1: I don't think, said listen, it's inevitable he's going to

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Speaker 1: need some procedure on the elbow. But he's going to

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Speaker 1: hit and he's going to pitch again. So he painted

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Speaker 1: as optimistic a picture as you can about the injury,

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Speaker 1: but now you got to deal with oblique. I mean,

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Speaker 1: come on, you can't make this stuff up. What a season,

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Speaker 1: sixty two players the Angels have gone through this year

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Speaker 1: and now we'll have to see how long show Hey

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Speaker 1: o Tani is out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just going unpacking that whole thing. A the

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Speaker 3: fact that he was on the field, probably because he's

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Speaker 3: not pitching anymore, so he has all this extra time,

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Speaker 3: and he felt as though, I need to get out

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Speaker 3: on the field, to just go out there because I

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Speaker 3: don't want to sit inside all day. It's going to

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Speaker 3: drive me crazy. So I don't doubt that that was

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Speaker 3: part of it. And then maybe just having the fans

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Speaker 3: see him for the last time, possibly in Angel Stadium there, whatever,

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Speaker 3: whatever the the thoughts process was. But then to injure

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Speaker 3: himself like that, and if if in fact it isn't oblique,

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Speaker 3: and there's no reason to doubt that he probably is

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Speaker 3: done for the season. Those things do take a while

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Speaker 3: to heal, if anygether. There's different degrees or levels, but

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Speaker 3: even an average kind of an average oblique situation, he's

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Speaker 3: probably done for three weeks or whatever it's going to be,

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Speaker 3: and that would be so awkward the way he has

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Speaker 3: appeared in an Angel uniform for the very last time.

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Speaker 3: Moving it forward, I do believe Nez though. I do

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Speaker 3: believe that he will play and he's going to do

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Speaker 3: both things. I'm just curious as to their strategy with

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Speaker 3: the arm surgery, etc. And how that's going to play out.

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Speaker 3: I read something about a new technique or some kind

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Speaker 3: of a sleeve or something that they're wearing these days

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Speaker 3: to help the healing process. I think I read something

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Speaker 3: like that. But he's going to primarily be a hitter,

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Speaker 3: it sounds like next year, and then move back into

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Speaker 3: the pitching market. I don't doubt, knowing that his level

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Speaker 3: degree of professionalism and how badly he wants to both,

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Speaker 3: that he will do both. But I also believe the

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Speaker 3: hitting part will come back a little bit more readily.

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Speaker 3: I think the throwing part may take more time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen, and nes was optimistic, saying that the

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Speaker 1: injury in the UCL was not the same area that

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Speaker 1: was repaired back in twenty eighteen or whenever he had

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Speaker 1: the surgery. And you know, he had the surgery then

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Speaker 1: in October October first, and he missed the first month

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Speaker 1: of the next season. Came back in May of the

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Speaker 1: following season after Tommy John surgery, and Nez pretty much

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Speaker 1: guaranteed that show Hey will be in somebody's opening lineup

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Speaker 1: next year, that the recovery is at least he's implying,

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Speaker 1: will be a little bit quicker here.

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Speaker 2: And I'm with you, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I don't doubt that whoever signed Sho Hey o Tani,

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Speaker 1: they're going to get him as a two way player.

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Speaker 1: Maybe not for twenty twenty four, but you know how

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Speaker 1: much this guy loves to play baseball, and he's bound

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Speaker 1: and determined to keep doing this. And I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are saying, well, why not just have

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Speaker 1: the surgery now? Angels are out of it meaningless games,

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Speaker 1: They're not meaningless to show Hey, and you know that

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Speaker 1: this guy loves to play baseball, and is he chasing

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Speaker 1: the MVP, of course, and he's got some other numbers.

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Speaker 1: The Angels single season home run record is forty seven

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Speaker 1: by Troy Glass.

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Speaker 2: He's got a shot at that.

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Speaker 1: But it just comes down to the fact he loves

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Speaker 1: to play baseball and he can hit. Right now, there's

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Speaker 1: absolutely no limitation on him as a hitter right now.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not surprised he's continuing to play. He just

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Speaker 1: loves to play, and I think it really is that simple.

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Speaker 3: It is that simple. It's not complicated at all. I

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Speaker 3: just hearing about as long as there's an assurance kind

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Speaker 3: of that he's going to be able to hit at

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Speaker 3: an earlier month next baseball season, that he'll be able

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Speaker 3: to participate as a hitter for sure, that would be

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Speaker 3: all he needs to know. If he's getting those kind

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Speaker 3: of assurances, then he's going to want to play the

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Speaker 3: rest of the month. Maybe outside of the oblique right now,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, that's he is. I mean, yes, he wants

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Speaker 3: to have the Angels record from home runs, he wants

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Speaker 3: to win an MVP Award. He wants all that stuff,

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Speaker 3: absolutely does. That's how he's driven, and there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 3: with that. It's a part of the greatness as a

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Speaker 3: part of being driven, it's a part of being able

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Speaker 3: to perform annually at a level that maybe others can't perform.

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Speaker 3: Part of it is the fact that he is very talented.

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Speaker 3: The other part is that he's just not going to

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Speaker 3: be denied. I mean, you could go into other sports

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Speaker 3: primarily look Tom Brady or Michael Jordan or Larry Bird

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Speaker 3: in our sport, he'd have to. I mean more recently,

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Speaker 3: I think the Yankees run in general, which youeter in

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Speaker 3: that particular group, but it takes a different mental method

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Speaker 3: annually daily that causes or permits guys like this to

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Speaker 3: be that good day after day after day. It's not easy,

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Speaker 3: and then year after year after year, because once you've

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Speaker 3: achieved certain things, I think human nature almost causes you

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Speaker 3: to kind of step back a bit. It's not as

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Speaker 3: important as it had been. But then there's this other

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Speaker 3: group that it is as important to continue to be

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Speaker 3: that great, continued to perform at mv MVP caliber, and

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Speaker 3: to win championships. So that's that's him. He is Bird,

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Speaker 3: he is Michael Jordan, he is Tom Brady's all those

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Speaker 3: guys in a baseball uniform. And that's what sets him apart.

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Speaker 1: And think about when shohe was an international free agent.

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Speaker 1: First of all, he came over here at an age

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Speaker 1: where if he had waited a year or two, he

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Speaker 1: could have been an unrestricted free agent, but his earnings

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Speaker 1: were limited, so he basically gave up probably two hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars of earnings at that point to sign because

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Speaker 1: he wanted to come to Major League Baseball to be

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Speaker 1: a two way player, and he essentially fell into the

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Speaker 1: lapse of the Angels, right. I mean, one of the

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Speaker 1: first things he said was I don't want to play

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Speaker 1: on the East Coast at National League at the time

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Speaker 1: did not have.

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Speaker 2: The designated hitter.

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Speaker 1: It probably made him lean more towards an American League

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Speaker 1: team to be able to be a two way player.

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Speaker 1: And again, as I said, he pretty much fell into

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Speaker 1: the lapse of the of the Angels, and you got

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Speaker 1: him at somewhat of a bargain price. And now here

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Speaker 1: we are six years with the Angels, and he's played

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Speaker 1: on teams that have never finished closer than ten games

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Speaker 1: in first place, that over the course of the six

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Speaker 1: years are sixty two games under five hundred. And he

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Speaker 1: will not see a playoff game, at least if he

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Speaker 1: doesn't return with the Angels in an Angel's uniform. It's

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Speaker 1: just amazing to me and Joe, I'll go back to

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Speaker 1: and I know you won't bring this up, but when

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Speaker 1: you were let go as the Angels manager, the team

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Speaker 1: was just two games under five hundred. Since then, they're

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Speaker 1: twenty four games under five hundred. They're eight and twenty

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Speaker 1: three in their last thirty one games here. Once they

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Speaker 1: were all in at the deadline, and I was a

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Speaker 1: big fan of what they did because they still had

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Speaker 1: a winning record at that time. You had Otana, you

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Speaker 1: had Trout coming back. You don't punt a season when

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Speaker 1: you have a winning record, a positive run. Differentially, you

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Speaker 1: haven't been to the postseason in eight years. I get

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Speaker 1: all that, but man, it has just fallen part and

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Speaker 1: now this is just the latest. So I don't know, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I know that Mike Trout has talked about wanting to

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Speaker 1: talk to the front office at the end of the season.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of boiler played stuff.

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Speaker 1: When you're a franchise player like that, you've got seven

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Speaker 1: years on the contract with the organization. You want to

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Speaker 1: know what the future is, what the plans are. I

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Speaker 1: don't think Mike's got kind of guy who's go don't

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Speaker 1: force anything. You know him well, Joe, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what those conversations are going to be like. But man,

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Speaker 1: the Angels, and I'll say this, Mike Trout, they're at

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Speaker 1: a tough spot here and how they pivot out of

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Speaker 1: this position they're in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just compared Showy to some really iconic players,

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Speaker 3: but the difference was that they were on championship teams.

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Speaker 3: And that's the one thing that's been driving show. I mean,

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Speaker 3: physical talent wise, he is on par with those guys,

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Speaker 3: but when missing element is the most important element that's

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Speaker 3: to win championships. Yeah, with Michael, I read all that,

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Speaker 3: I just like Shuzer had done. I guess with the

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Speaker 3: Mets wants a meeting that The part that strikes me

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Speaker 3: about that is how foreign that is from back in

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Speaker 3: the day, where a player would ever never even ask

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Speaker 3: for a summit number or two B granted one. That's

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Speaker 3: that's kind of the difference in today's world compared to

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Speaker 3: the past. For Michael. I mean, he's got a pretty

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Speaker 3: ironclad contract, and I do believe he sees himself as

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Speaker 3: an angel now and forever. I do. I also believe

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Speaker 3: that he believes that somehow they're going to work through

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Speaker 3: this and it's gonna they're gonna get back on the

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Speaker 3: winning ways. So I'm curious. I mean, I don't see

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Speaker 3: Michael as being demanding. I don't see him that way.

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Speaker 3: I think more curious than anything, as he may, you know,

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Speaker 3: sit with Artie or John or or Perry whomever and

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Speaker 3: ask different questions about the future. I don't think it'll

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Speaker 3: get too heavy with him, I don't think so. Just

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Speaker 3: trying to find out exactly what everybody's thinking, and they

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Speaker 3: just try to move it forward. So I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's the monstrative situation. I don't think it's like he's

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Speaker 3: going to make any kind of demands or any kind

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Speaker 3: of threats. I don't see him doing that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: It's just a curiosity thing, I think, and just to

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Speaker 3: ameliorate his mind and find out or figure out what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Because I think back to original point. I think part

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Speaker 3: of why showhe wanted to be there the Angels were

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Speaker 3: on the West Coast, but they also had Mike Trapp.

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Speaker 3: I think maybe he thought being a part of that

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Speaker 3: dynamic would help propel this team to the point where

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Speaker 3: they would be a championship team. Yeah, I mean last point. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: When I left there, was gotten off to the best

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Speaker 3: start they had gotten off to in years years and

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Speaker 3: ran into a mad moment. We just like Showy stopped

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Speaker 3: hitting for a bit, Michael stopped hitting for a bit,

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Speaker 3: and the bullpen was struggling. That's pretty much what it happened,

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Speaker 3: and from that part, it was disappointing because I've always

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Speaker 3: saw myself as a California Angel, and I think we've

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Speaker 3: talked about this. I've never liked the moniker Los Angeles

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Speaker 3: Angels or Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, even Anaheim Angels,

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Speaker 3: even though we went a world series that way, saw

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Speaker 3: us as California Angels, and that was something that I

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Speaker 3: had near and dear to my heart. Was still wanted

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Speaker 3: to be part of that resurgence. But again, it's not

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Speaker 3: necessarily like that anymore. It's not disloyalty factor, traditions not

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Speaker 3: as important to different groups. So yeah, yeah, I was

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Speaker 3: disappointed to be able let go to being let go there.

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Speaker 3: I really there's a lot of unfinished work and I

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Speaker 3: do I love that organization, So that part was disappointing.

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Speaker 3: But moving it forward it's going to be hard, very hard.

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Speaker 3: It's going to take a while to get back on

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Speaker 3: the winning track.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I'm with you, Mike.

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Speaker 1: I think you said this well in the book that

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Speaker 1: Mike is the gun and gut kind of player, kind

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Speaker 1: of person who never wants to disappoint anybody, and I've

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Speaker 1: always felt like he is such a loyal soldier, if

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Speaker 1: you will, especially for a guy who was sitting there

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Speaker 1: through the first half of the draft and waiting for

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Speaker 1: someone to take him, and the Angels did, and they've

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Speaker 1: signed him to a couple of extensions in that contract,

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Speaker 1: and I think his loyalty is really strong to the

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Speaker 1: Angels in general, to Artie Moreno in particular. So I

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Speaker 1: you know, he's got what like seven years, two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty five million left on his contract. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: he's as frustrated as anybody about not being able to

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Speaker 1: get back to the postseason. But I have a hard

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Speaker 1: time thinking that Mike is going to say, hey, get

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Speaker 1: me out of here.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, who knows.

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Speaker 1: It might be tough to move Mike Trout because he

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Speaker 1: hasn't been healthy the last four years and with the

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Speaker 1: money left on the contract.

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Speaker 2: Listen, you can trade anybody. We all know that. And

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Speaker 2: he's still Mike Trout.

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Speaker 1: But he has questions Joe that I think everybody has

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Speaker 1: looking at the Angels, like where do you pivot from here?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you were basically all in with Mike and

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Speaker 1: with shohe on the same group. They've really been aggressive

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Speaker 1: promoting their young players to the big leagues. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure how many are going to be impact players. But man,

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Speaker 1: if you're Mike Trout or an Angels fan, you have

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Speaker 1: to wonder where do we go from here.

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Speaker 2: I look at teams like.

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Speaker 1: The Padres, the White Sox, even the Yankees, the Angels,

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Speaker 1: a lot of disappointing teams who are all in the Mets,

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Speaker 1: and it's hard to see where those teams pivot to

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Speaker 1: get really good again.

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Speaker 3: I can't disagree with that. You just can't go out

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Speaker 3: and buy yourself a whole new team. I have seen

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Speaker 3: some of the players. They've brought up, nice players, but

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Speaker 3: I don't see them as being like lead singers. I

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Speaker 3: see them being more part of the support group, a

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Speaker 3: nice support group. And yeah, it's just you just can't

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Speaker 3: there's nothing to trade. You can't really trade for guys

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Speaker 3: that all of a sudden are going to make it

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Speaker 3: all work. It's going to be difficult. There's no question

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Speaker 3: how they're going to do it. Probably an amalgam of

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Speaker 3: a lot of different things in an attempt. But it's

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Speaker 3: it's going to take a while. It's just gonna especially

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Speaker 3: after this blood letting right now, letting all putting all

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Speaker 3: those guys out on the irrevocable waivers and having them

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Speaker 3: all leave, I know most of them probably maybe we're

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Speaker 3: not going to be part of the future. However, had

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Speaker 3: they hit it, some of these guys might have stuck

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Speaker 3: around for a bit. They still have nice players. I

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Speaker 3: like Dreary a lot. I like Renfro. Renfro is like

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Speaker 3: one of those mercenaries over the last couple of years

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Speaker 3: that always ends up playing for a winning situation. Drury,

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Speaker 3: to me, is one of the better hitters that nobody

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Speaker 3: talks about. And I love these guy Mistokas. These are guys,

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Speaker 3: but you got to build it around them. Their pitching

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Speaker 3: staff has to be more productive consistently. They have something.

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Speaker 3: I know Sandy had a tough year and I'm a

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Speaker 3: big Patrick Sandoval fan. Huge. I love the fact that

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Speaker 3: Griff Canning has really made a nice comeback. I've watched

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Speaker 3: him pitch a couple of times, and I like what

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Speaker 3: he's doing stuff wise. I like his delivery, I like

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Speaker 3: the shape of his pitches. I like a lot of

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Speaker 3: that redebtmers. I still believe he's going to find his

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Speaker 3: confidence and once he does, he'll be a really solid

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Speaker 3: major league pitcher. They got some nice arms in the bullpen,

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Speaker 3: but then again they let them go, So this is

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Speaker 3: interesting to be able. Probably their goal would be to

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Speaker 3: be able to put together some kind of competitive team

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Speaker 3: next year, as opposed to a Pennant when he kind

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Speaker 3: of team next year. So it'll be very creative in

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Speaker 3: regards to the offseason trying to figure out the method,

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Speaker 3: the way we're going to go about this. And I

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Speaker 3: think finally you have to define exactly what are we

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Speaker 3: going to try to do, what do we want to

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Speaker 3: be going into the season, what is realistic and then

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Speaker 3: try to attempt to work around that thought.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not an easy answer to that.

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Speaker 1: I know that Ardie Moreno has never really been interested

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Speaker 1: in doing a full on rebuild. It's a great fan

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Speaker 1: base out there. He's very much into the entertainment side

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Speaker 1: of the business. Nothing wrong with that, because you know,

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Speaker 1: they do keep taking prices down. They do a pretty

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Speaker 1: good job of feeling that place. But man, everything this

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Speaker 1: year that could go wrong has gone wrong. Even you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought they made a brilliant move by putting those

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Speaker 1: veteran players on the waiver wire to try to get

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Speaker 1: under the luxury tax limit. I mean, the worst thing

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Speaker 1: to do is is you go over the luxury tax

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Speaker 1: threshold and you're not even a postseason team.

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Speaker 2: Right. That's what the Padres are doing, the Yankees are doing.

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Speaker 2: But for the.

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Speaker 1: Angels, you know, they were trying to limbo under that number.

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Speaker 1: And it looks like, and it's going to come down

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Speaker 1: to an eleventh hour accounting. It looks like by not

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Speaker 1: having someone take Randall Gritchick and what was left on

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Speaker 1: his contract, they wind up being.

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Speaker 2: A little bit over the threshold.

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Speaker 1: And man, it reminds me of the great Sparky Anderson

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Speaker 1: once said the three Detroit Tigers, they lost one hundred

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Speaker 1: and nineteen games, one short of the Mets one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty back in nineteen sixty two, and he said,

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Speaker 1: even when we were losing, we couldn't lose the right way.

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Speaker 2: You might as well break the record. That's been the

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Speaker 2: year for the Angels.

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Speaker 3: That's outstanding. Yeah, I was just curious too, like when

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Speaker 3: they went through the sole process of acquiring these guys

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Speaker 3: was the escape patch this particular strategy today, having the

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Speaker 3: back of their minds if it did not go well,

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Speaker 3: that we could still do this and come out kind

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Speaker 3: of being okay with the whole process or situation. I'm

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Speaker 3: just curious if it was something they thought of after

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Speaker 3: they made the acquisition. How could we write this and

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Speaker 3: then we put these guys out on waivers or going

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Speaker 3: into it. If they knew that this was part of

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Speaker 3: the potential process, that would be a great foresight on

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Speaker 3: their part.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, really good question.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just curious about that, because if you had

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Speaker 3: that thought out all the way, that's pretty solid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a brilliant move.

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Speaker 1: I got to give him credit for that, and it's

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Speaker 1: something I think you're going to see in future years

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Speaker 1: going forward at August thirty, first deadline, because veterans have

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Speaker 1: to be on your club at that point to be

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Speaker 1: postseason eligible.

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Speaker 2: So you put these players out on.

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Speaker 1: The curb, so to speak, where teams can acquire them

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Speaker 1: without giving up any prospect capital, no capital at all.

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Speaker 1: You're just assuming the contract. But you're going to see

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Speaker 1: that I think happened years four. We're going to call

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Speaker 1: that waiver day when these players are put out there

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Speaker 1: on the curve for other teams to pick up.

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Speaker 2: No such problem in Baltimore, Joe. I want to talk.

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Speaker 1: About Gunner Henderson and this class of rookies that we're

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Speaker 1: looking at this year.

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Speaker 2: He is just so impressive.

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Speaker 1: And I want to get your take on Gunner Henderson

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Speaker 1: and the rookie class of twenty twenty three when we

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Speaker 1: get back right.

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Speaker 2: After this.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. Hey Joe,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned Gunner Henderson and man, he is just so impressive.

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Speaker 2: Brandon Hyde's done a great job.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is a kid goes back and forth

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Speaker 1: between shortstop and third base.

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Speaker 2: He loses nothing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, generally you think for a young player, you

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Speaker 1: want to leave him at one position, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to bother this kid to me, he's the favorite

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Speaker 1: the American League for the Rookie of the Year. You've

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Speaker 1: got Corbyn Carroll in the America in the National League.

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Speaker 1: Very similar type player when you talk about a combination

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Speaker 1: of power and speed, just super athletic, high baseball IQs.

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Speaker 2: I was looking at this, Joe just the other day.

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Speaker 1: We have eight rookies this year who've already hit twenty

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Speaker 1: home runs, and the record for any one season most

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Speaker 1: rookies with twenty home runs is nine, and that was

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Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen. You had one of those in

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Speaker 1: Ian happ But Matn what a group you talked about

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Speaker 1: co Carol Gunner Henderson, Tristan Cassas, Josh Young, Jiner Diaz

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Speaker 1: with the Astros, Francisco Alvarez Young catcher with the Mets,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Volpi, Spencer Steer, and maybe Josh Autman with the

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Speaker 1: Dodgers is going to get there to tie that record.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Masataka Yoshida will get there as well. But man,

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Speaker 1: let's start with Gunner Henderson. You tell me you've watched him.

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Speaker 1: What do you like about this player for the Baltimore Orioles.

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Speaker 3: Energy, enthusiasm. I just love the way he goes about

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Speaker 3: his business, very athletic, and the fact that you mentioned

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Speaker 3: the fact that he's going between two positions. I think

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Speaker 3: with Hydra season there is a little bit of Hobby

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Speaker 3: bias regarding athleticism. When we had Hobby with the Cubbies,

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Speaker 3: he was playing second base, then eventually shortstop whatever, and

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Speaker 3: third base when John Lester pitched. We liked him at

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Speaker 3: third base because he took all the pressure of Johnny

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Speaker 3: regarding bunts. KB worked his way into being a good

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Speaker 3: defensive third base. But Hobby was extraordinary. So when you

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Speaker 3: have a guy like this, athletically. You could whether it's

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Speaker 3: based on who's pitching that day for the opposition and

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Speaker 3: how you want to set up your lineup, or maybe

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00:21:14,438 --> 00:21:18,078
Speaker 3: it's a defensive situation based on a pitcher who lacks

435
00:21:18,078 --> 00:21:20,358
Speaker 3: some kind of fielding acumen where he might be challenged

436
00:21:20,398 --> 00:21:22,518
Speaker 3: during the course of the game. Because it was definitely

437
00:21:22,878 --> 00:21:27,118
Speaker 3: a safety net for John but Henderson, I'm watching the

438
00:21:27,158 --> 00:21:29,118
Speaker 3: ball comes off the bad hot I watched him. I

439
00:21:29,198 --> 00:21:31,798
Speaker 3: know early on he struggled. I'm just you know, listening

440
00:21:31,798 --> 00:21:34,118
Speaker 3: about him, hearing about his pedigree whatever. But I'm watching

441
00:21:34,198 --> 00:21:36,998
Speaker 3: him go dang. I mean, there's a lot to like there.

442
00:21:37,518 --> 00:21:40,758
Speaker 3: You can see why. And people liked him. And I

443
00:21:40,798 --> 00:21:43,758
Speaker 3: also liked that he did not seem to get easily

444
00:21:43,798 --> 00:21:45,958
Speaker 3: frustrated when things weren't going as way. I took that

445
00:21:45,998 --> 00:21:48,158
Speaker 3: as a good sign. Also, so I'm strike out a

446
00:21:48,158 --> 00:21:50,118
Speaker 3: little bit. Didn't see the bat getting flipped and thrown.

447
00:21:50,158 --> 00:21:52,838
Speaker 3: I didn't see him arguing with umpires things like that.

448
00:21:52,918 --> 00:21:54,958
Speaker 3: So these these are the kind of signs because you

449
00:21:55,038 --> 00:21:56,998
Speaker 3: know the guy's good. You know he's good. You're watching

450
00:21:57,118 --> 00:21:59,678
Speaker 3: in MVP. Look at his numbers in the minor leagues.

451
00:22:00,318 --> 00:22:02,318
Speaker 3: You hear all the instructors, what they say about them. Okay,

452
00:22:02,318 --> 00:22:05,118
Speaker 3: it's good, solid, but then you watch his demeanor and

453
00:22:05,158 --> 00:22:07,958
Speaker 3: how he approaches failure. Those are the kind of things

454
00:22:07,958 --> 00:22:10,838
Speaker 3: that set people apart really good players and athletes. So

455
00:22:11,478 --> 00:22:15,038
Speaker 3: that's my take on him. Watching from a distance, so athletic,

456
00:22:15,478 --> 00:22:19,158
Speaker 3: and you could actually play them based on defensively how

457
00:22:19,158 --> 00:22:21,918
Speaker 3: you want it set up, possibly rearrange your team to

458
00:22:21,958 --> 00:22:25,718
Speaker 3: get somebody else involved because he can do this. And

459
00:22:25,758 --> 00:22:28,358
Speaker 3: then again, just a live body and a live bat

460
00:22:28,678 --> 00:22:29,998
Speaker 3: that's going to keep getting better.

461
00:22:30,438 --> 00:22:30,678
Speaker 2: Yeah.

462
00:22:30,758 --> 00:22:33,158
Speaker 1: First one hundred and sixty games in the Big leagues,

463
00:22:33,678 --> 00:22:36,998
Speaker 1: twenty two homers, eighty eight RBIs, ninety three runs scored,

464
00:22:37,318 --> 00:22:40,358
Speaker 1: twenty two years old, middle infielder with speed and as

465
00:22:40,398 --> 00:22:43,758
Speaker 1: you mentioned power. I mean, that's a franchise player and

466
00:22:43,798 --> 00:22:46,398
Speaker 1: you've already got one behind a plate in Adlie Rushman.

467
00:22:47,078 --> 00:22:50,598
Speaker 1: And there was news this week about another I believe

468
00:22:50,638 --> 00:22:55,878
Speaker 1: franchise player for Baltimore, Jackson Holiday Joe. He's just nineteen

469
00:22:55,998 --> 00:23:00,838
Speaker 1: years old and he has absolutely torn up every single level.

470
00:23:00,878 --> 00:23:03,398
Speaker 1: He has shot through four levels this year the minor

471
00:23:03,478 --> 00:23:08,558
Speaker 1: leagues and the Orioles promoted him to Triple A. I

472
00:23:08,558 --> 00:23:11,198
Speaker 1: don't know how you feel about a teenager and pushing

473
00:23:11,198 --> 00:23:13,078
Speaker 1: a kid like that to the big leagues in a

474
00:23:13,118 --> 00:23:16,998
Speaker 1: pennant race, no less. But I'm of the mind, given

475
00:23:17,078 --> 00:23:21,358
Speaker 1: this kid's pedigree, how well he has succeeded at each level.

476
00:23:21,958 --> 00:23:23,798
Speaker 2: If I'm Brandon Hyde, I'm Micha.

477
00:23:23,598 --> 00:23:26,398
Speaker 1: Elias, the GM of the Baltimore Orioles, I'm not ruling

478
00:23:26,438 --> 00:23:30,598
Speaker 1: out the possibility and maybe even probability, that this kid

479
00:23:31,038 --> 00:23:34,238
Speaker 1: is on my playoff roster. Get him up in September,

480
00:23:35,038 --> 00:23:36,718
Speaker 1: give him at bats. I'm not saying he has to

481
00:23:36,718 --> 00:23:39,838
Speaker 1: be an everyday player, but if he's tearing up Triple

482
00:23:39,878 --> 00:23:42,558
Speaker 1: A like he's done every other level this year, and

483
00:23:42,598 --> 00:23:45,078
Speaker 1: you're the Baltimore Orioles and you get a chance to

484
00:23:45,118 --> 00:23:48,478
Speaker 1: win the American League pennant and you've got someone that talented,

485
00:23:49,198 --> 00:23:51,238
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter to me if he's nineteen years old.

486
00:23:51,318 --> 00:23:53,798
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll watched Andrew Jones walking the Yankee Stadium

487
00:23:53,798 --> 00:23:55,278
Speaker 1: in the World Series game at nineteen.

488
00:23:55,278 --> 00:23:58,238
Speaker 2: It hit two home runs. You know, talent plays.

489
00:23:58,478 --> 00:24:01,198
Speaker 1: So I don't know how aggressive the Orioles want to

490
00:24:01,198 --> 00:24:03,798
Speaker 1: be with Jackson Holliday, but I would not rule out

491
00:24:03,798 --> 00:24:06,838
Speaker 1: the possibility that Matt Holliday's kid will be in the

492
00:24:06,838 --> 00:24:08,718
Speaker 1: big leagues by the time this year is out, and

493
00:24:08,758 --> 00:24:09,958
Speaker 1: maybe on a playoff roster.

494
00:24:10,478 --> 00:24:12,318
Speaker 3: So that's where to me, like a good old fashioned

495
00:24:12,358 --> 00:24:14,798
Speaker 3: Scott he comes into play. There's always the anomaly guy.

496
00:24:15,638 --> 00:24:18,678
Speaker 3: Remember what the Rays were playing the Rangers in Texas

497
00:24:18,758 --> 00:24:22,558
Speaker 3: in a playoff game, and Matt Moore, who had been

498
00:24:22,638 --> 00:24:24,398
Speaker 3: up I think for a cup of coffee with us

499
00:24:25,518 --> 00:24:30,398
Speaker 3: Rocco Baldelli vehemently argued in the office in Texas that

500
00:24:30,518 --> 00:24:33,358
Speaker 3: he was ready to pitch that game and to be

501
00:24:33,398 --> 00:24:36,918
Speaker 3: the starting pitcher in Texas. I remember the first pitch

502
00:24:36,958 --> 00:24:39,638
Speaker 3: of the game, Ian Kinsler filed it off right over

503
00:24:39,678 --> 00:24:41,518
Speaker 3: their doug out. He was so late on the fastball.

504
00:24:41,878 --> 00:24:45,238
Speaker 3: But that was a situation that we thought that Matt

505
00:24:45,318 --> 00:24:48,198
Speaker 3: was ready to rock and roll, and the fact that

506
00:24:48,598 --> 00:24:51,478
Speaker 3: Rocco really promoted it made all the difference in the

507
00:24:51,478 --> 00:24:54,558
Speaker 3: world in regards to us giving him that opportunity. So

508
00:24:54,598 --> 00:24:59,238
Speaker 3: I do believe every situation has to be handled uniquely individually,

509
00:24:59,318 --> 00:25:02,318
Speaker 3: and I do believe this is where real scouting takes

510
00:25:02,318 --> 00:25:06,278
Speaker 3: shape or takes form. There's no way an analytical model

511
00:25:06,278 --> 00:25:07,878
Speaker 3: can tell you that Matt Moore is ready to pitch

512
00:25:07,918 --> 00:25:09,838
Speaker 3: that game, where Jackson's ready to play in the big

513
00:25:09,918 --> 00:25:12,758
Speaker 3: league game in this particular time of the year. This

514
00:25:12,798 --> 00:25:14,958
Speaker 3: is where eyeballs really mattered. This is where really true

515
00:25:14,998 --> 00:25:19,958
Speaker 3: scouting matters. Knowing your player really matters. Frankie Rodriguez another

516
00:25:19,998 --> 00:25:23,278
Speaker 3: guy with the Angels. That was wow. He came up

517
00:25:24,358 --> 00:25:26,798
Speaker 3: and you know, social was kind of reticent putting him

518
00:25:26,798 --> 00:25:28,798
Speaker 3: in the game, even though we had heard everything we

519
00:25:28,838 --> 00:25:31,318
Speaker 3: had heard, and then Fly popped him in the game,

520
00:25:31,358 --> 00:25:34,038
Speaker 3: and wow, it was electric. And then we ended up

521
00:25:34,038 --> 00:25:35,958
Speaker 3: going to the World Series and winning it. Probably could

522
00:25:35,998 --> 00:25:38,158
Speaker 3: not have done it without him. You know, we had

523
00:25:38,158 --> 00:25:41,158
Speaker 3: a nice bullpen and everything. Percy was our guy, but

524
00:25:41,358 --> 00:25:44,718
Speaker 3: Frankie came up at a young age and impacted that

525
00:25:44,718 --> 00:25:47,078
Speaker 3: that run in that series in a way that nobody

526
00:25:47,078 --> 00:25:50,558
Speaker 3: else could have. Real scouting, So I think when he

527
00:25:50,558 --> 00:25:52,198
Speaker 3: gets to this time of the year, if in fact

528
00:25:52,278 --> 00:25:54,198
Speaker 3: you want to take a shot at a kid like that,

529
00:25:54,878 --> 00:25:57,878
Speaker 3: you have to have some real strong opinions in a room.

530
00:25:58,158 --> 00:26:01,158
Speaker 3: Of course, the guys had to have done well, something

531
00:26:01,198 --> 00:26:04,518
Speaker 3: that's obvious to everybody. But makeup is a way that

532
00:26:04,598 --> 00:26:08,238
Speaker 3: gets bandied about a lot, and how he handles adversity,

533
00:26:08,278 --> 00:26:12,118
Speaker 3: how he handles failure will he be able to, you know,

534
00:26:12,198 --> 00:26:14,558
Speaker 3: process this moment and not become overwhelmed by it. Those

535
00:26:14,558 --> 00:26:17,318
Speaker 3: are the kind of that's the kind of commentary you

536
00:26:17,358 --> 00:26:19,958
Speaker 3: want to hear to feel confident to give somebody this

537
00:26:20,078 --> 00:26:20,958
Speaker 3: kind of opportunity.

538
00:26:21,318 --> 00:26:25,638
Speaker 1: That's interesting, Joe, because that assumes that there's people in

539
00:26:25,678 --> 00:26:28,198
Speaker 1: the front office who have that kind of sway, who

540
00:26:28,278 --> 00:26:31,078
Speaker 1: have that kind of eye for talent, right, because what

541
00:26:31,118 --> 00:26:33,718
Speaker 1: you're saying is that no matter what his numbers are,

542
00:26:33,838 --> 00:26:36,478
Speaker 1: no matter what his ex velocity is and his launch angle,

543
00:26:36,998 --> 00:26:39,518
Speaker 1: you need someone with wisdom and experience to look at

544
00:26:39,558 --> 00:26:42,078
Speaker 1: the kid playing and say, you know what, he's major

545
00:26:42,198 --> 00:26:45,078
Speaker 1: league ready, and we don't worry about him falling on

546
00:26:45,198 --> 00:26:48,158
Speaker 1: his face, how he might handle, say a slow start.

547
00:26:49,158 --> 00:26:51,478
Speaker 1: You need people in your organization then who are in

548
00:26:51,558 --> 00:26:53,838
Speaker 1: position to make those kind of judgments. I don't know

549
00:26:53,838 --> 00:26:56,518
Speaker 1: whether that's Michaelias the GM, whether he's got people that

550
00:26:56,558 --> 00:26:59,438
Speaker 1: he trusted in that position, but you're making a good

551
00:26:59,478 --> 00:27:04,518
Speaker 1: case of having people who have the baseball acumen besides

552
00:27:04,558 --> 00:27:07,998
Speaker 1: the technology to make those kind of determinations.

553
00:27:08,438 --> 00:27:10,558
Speaker 3: That's all about balance. We talk about that all the time.

554
00:27:10,678 --> 00:27:14,398
Speaker 3: I do believe it's good and necessary when you have

555
00:27:14,518 --> 00:27:17,918
Speaker 3: that when you have people that have seen like a

556
00:27:17,998 --> 00:27:22,078
Speaker 3: Frankie Rodriguez show up or whomever. That the night we

557
00:27:22,118 --> 00:27:25,158
Speaker 3: put Kevin Kiermeyer in center field in the latter part

558
00:27:25,198 --> 00:27:27,398
Speaker 3: of the game in Texas, it was his first appearance.

559
00:27:27,478 --> 00:27:29,358
Speaker 3: This was the I think it was the one game

560
00:27:29,358 --> 00:27:32,438
Speaker 3: playoff against the Rangers before we went on and played Cleveland,

561
00:27:32,478 --> 00:27:35,278
Speaker 3: and Cleveland it was like a pre wild card game

562
00:27:35,318 --> 00:27:40,678
Speaker 3: because we have been tied. But the again Andrew Andrew Friedman,

563
00:27:41,438 --> 00:27:43,918
Speaker 3: who I consider a really good scout. Andrew and I

564
00:27:44,038 --> 00:27:46,758
Speaker 3: used to talk about We've talked about this before, but

565
00:27:46,838 --> 00:27:49,598
Speaker 3: there was other minor league personnel in that group that

566
00:27:49,798 --> 00:27:53,238
Speaker 3: was adamant. Yeah, put him out there. He's not gonna

567
00:27:53,238 --> 00:27:54,838
Speaker 3: have any problems. You're gonna love this. He could run

568
00:27:54,878 --> 00:27:57,278
Speaker 3: anything down. He's better than what you have. You hear

569
00:27:57,318 --> 00:28:00,118
Speaker 3: all those kind of phrases, and then you feel confident

570
00:28:00,198 --> 00:28:04,118
Speaker 3: doing it. And the other part is everybody being on

571
00:28:04,158 --> 00:28:07,558
Speaker 3: the same page, just in just in fact, if something

572
00:28:07,598 --> 00:28:10,238
Speaker 3: were to go wrong, and it's not the point, fingers,

573
00:28:10,638 --> 00:28:13,638
Speaker 3: it's just that if it doesn't play out, the whole

574
00:28:13,678 --> 00:28:17,638
Speaker 3: group was on the same page philosophically, and that is

575
00:28:17,678 --> 00:28:21,078
Speaker 3: the proverbial having one another's back, and that's really a

576
00:28:21,158 --> 00:28:23,558
Speaker 3: wonderful place to be, and it makes your decision making

577
00:28:24,798 --> 00:28:27,798
Speaker 3: feel more accurate and sure when you have that kind

578
00:28:27,838 --> 00:28:31,118
Speaker 3: of support. So that was it too with KK put

579
00:28:31,158 --> 00:28:32,838
Speaker 3: a minute about the seventh or eighth inning and text,

580
00:28:32,918 --> 00:28:35,718
Speaker 3: I remember running out there. The old Texas Ballpark was

581
00:28:35,798 --> 00:28:38,398
Speaker 3: kind of dark in the outfield from the dugout and

582
00:28:38,438 --> 00:28:40,718
Speaker 3: there is out there like nothing like APPS like he

583
00:28:40,798 --> 00:28:44,758
Speaker 3: was shagging balls and BP. But again, that was the

584
00:28:44,838 --> 00:28:47,598
Speaker 3: assurance of minor league personnel that had been around him.

585
00:28:47,998 --> 00:28:49,998
Speaker 3: So this is the kind of stuff that I don't

586
00:28:50,038 --> 00:28:55,038
Speaker 3: know to what level organizations really rely on this kind

587
00:28:55,078 --> 00:28:58,758
Speaker 3: of stuff anymore. To me running an organization, I want

588
00:28:58,838 --> 00:29:01,358
Speaker 3: all of that I want again because a manager, I

589
00:29:01,358 --> 00:29:03,878
Speaker 3: want all of that. I want power. I want power pitching.

590
00:29:03,958 --> 00:29:06,158
Speaker 3: I want guys to throw under armed. I want guys

591
00:29:06,198 --> 00:29:08,518
Speaker 3: that are good against lefties. I want guys they're not

592
00:29:08,598 --> 00:29:10,438
Speaker 3: to steal base, guys who know how to make contact

593
00:29:10,558 --> 00:29:13,358
Speaker 3: ladder part of the game when it's necessary. I want

594
00:29:13,438 --> 00:29:15,598
Speaker 3: all of that. So I want to be able to

595
00:29:15,598 --> 00:29:19,198
Speaker 3: balance whether my data and eyeballs come together. I need that.

596
00:29:19,358 --> 00:29:21,758
Speaker 3: I need to hear both. I need to hear the

597
00:29:21,878 --> 00:29:26,478
Speaker 3: analytical side of the numerical side, what what plays, what

598
00:29:26,678 --> 00:29:29,518
Speaker 3: you think plays with this person brings to bear that

599
00:29:29,558 --> 00:29:32,598
Speaker 3: I also need. I always use the term Larry Bow,

600
00:29:32,678 --> 00:29:35,518
Speaker 3: but Larry Boat type looking out in the minor league system,

601
00:29:36,398 --> 00:29:38,358
Speaker 3: walk in the fields and seeing them during the year,

602
00:29:38,918 --> 00:29:42,518
Speaker 3: reporting back and telling me what they see also really

603
00:29:42,518 --> 00:29:46,398
Speaker 3: important to me. So again, balance is the key word here. Yeah.

604
00:29:46,438 --> 00:29:49,718
Speaker 1: I love hearing those examples about deciding when someone is

605
00:29:49,758 --> 00:29:53,118
Speaker 1: ready for the big leagues. So the Orioles may be

606
00:29:53,238 --> 00:29:55,558
Speaker 1: up against that decision. Hey, hey, Joe, I want to

607
00:29:55,598 --> 00:29:59,718
Speaker 1: get your take and pick your manager brain. On a

608
00:29:59,718 --> 00:30:02,678
Speaker 1: big announcement, I think it was big for Major League

609
00:30:02,678 --> 00:30:05,038
Speaker 1: Baseball the past week where they decided they will not

610
00:30:05,318 --> 00:30:09,238
Speaker 1: change the playing rules, specifically the pitch timer for postseason play.

611
00:30:09,798 --> 00:30:13,518
Speaker 1: There had been some chatter among players that, hey, postseason games,

612
00:30:13,518 --> 00:30:16,158
Speaker 1: they're more important. Slow the game down. We need more

613
00:30:16,198 --> 00:30:19,038
Speaker 1: time because there's more on the line. Penance and history

614
00:30:19,038 --> 00:30:21,518
Speaker 1: are decided, and some people thought maybe we can add

615
00:30:21,558 --> 00:30:22,398
Speaker 1: some time to the clock.

616
00:30:22,678 --> 00:30:24,078
Speaker 2: Uh uh, not happening.

617
00:30:24,478 --> 00:30:27,238
Speaker 1: I am a big proponent of playing the game the

618
00:30:27,278 --> 00:30:29,918
Speaker 1: same way we've been playing it for six months, and

619
00:30:29,958 --> 00:30:33,038
Speaker 1: the numbers back it up. We're now, at a point

620
00:30:33,078 --> 00:30:36,398
Speaker 1: where seventy five percent of Major League games are played

621
00:30:36,438 --> 00:30:40,638
Speaker 1: with no violations at all, it's rare to see a

622
00:30:40,958 --> 00:30:44,798
Speaker 1: pitch timer violation. And major League Baseball looked at the numbers,

623
00:30:44,838 --> 00:30:46,878
Speaker 1: and of course, with the bass is empty, that pitch

624
00:30:46,918 --> 00:30:50,998
Speaker 1: timer is fifteen seconds. The average time remaining on the

625
00:30:51,038 --> 00:30:53,238
Speaker 1: timer when a pitch is thrown with the bases empty

626
00:30:54,118 --> 00:30:57,798
Speaker 1: is six point five seconds. And when there's someone on

627
00:30:57,878 --> 00:31:01,238
Speaker 1: base and the timer goes to twenty seconds, the average

628
00:31:01,518 --> 00:31:03,718
Speaker 1: time remaining on the timer when the pitch is thrown

629
00:31:04,078 --> 00:31:05,998
Speaker 1: is seven point four seconds.

630
00:31:06,638 --> 00:31:08,518
Speaker 2: So these guys are not up.

631
00:31:08,558 --> 00:31:12,838
Speaker 1: Against this you know timer that's far too fast, and

632
00:31:12,878 --> 00:31:16,198
Speaker 1: they're down to the last second every single time. The

633
00:31:16,238 --> 00:31:20,318
Speaker 1: players have done a great job adjusting to life with

634
00:31:20,358 --> 00:31:22,558
Speaker 1: a pitch timer, and I think it's second nature to them.

635
00:31:22,598 --> 00:31:25,238
Speaker 1: Now why would you change it? And the example that

636
00:31:25,278 --> 00:31:27,758
Speaker 1: I use Joe when people say, well, listen, it's more

637
00:31:27,838 --> 00:31:31,398
Speaker 1: dramatic to have these long moments, these battles between the

638
00:31:31,438 --> 00:31:35,158
Speaker 1: pitcher and the hitter. Well, I tell people you will

639
00:31:35,198 --> 00:31:38,958
Speaker 1: not find a more dramatic at bet in postseason history

640
00:31:39,718 --> 00:31:43,078
Speaker 1: than Kirk Gibson against Dennis Acresley in nineteen eighty eight,

641
00:31:43,478 --> 00:31:45,718
Speaker 1: and I went back and looked at that game in

642
00:31:45,758 --> 00:31:49,798
Speaker 1: real time and assume there was a timer in place,

643
00:31:50,598 --> 00:31:53,638
Speaker 1: and other than Eckrousley picking at first base with Mike

644
00:31:53,718 --> 00:31:56,558
Speaker 1: Davis over there more than two times, which would have

645
00:31:56,558 --> 00:32:00,638
Speaker 1: been a violation under the pitch timer, there would have

646
00:32:00,678 --> 00:32:04,838
Speaker 1: been no violations, including the one timeout that Kirk Gibson

647
00:32:04,878 --> 00:32:07,438
Speaker 1: took before he hit that three to.

648
00:32:07,438 --> 00:32:08,838
Speaker 2: Two slider out for the home run.

649
00:32:09,038 --> 00:32:12,598
Speaker 1: So don't tell me we need thirty five forty seconds

650
00:32:12,638 --> 00:32:16,878
Speaker 1: between pitches to be more dramatic. So I love the

651
00:32:16,918 --> 00:32:19,438
Speaker 1: fact that we're playing by the same rules. Nothing changes,

652
00:32:19,598 --> 00:32:22,638
Speaker 1: the game will still be dramatic. I want to get

653
00:32:22,678 --> 00:32:25,198
Speaker 1: your take as a manager, Joe, and whether you think

654
00:32:25,278 --> 00:32:28,958
Speaker 1: players deserve more time because the games are quote unquote

655
00:32:28,958 --> 00:32:29,678
Speaker 1: more meaningful.

656
00:32:30,518 --> 00:32:34,118
Speaker 3: I thought earlier in the year we talked it wasn't

657
00:32:34,118 --> 00:32:37,278
Speaker 3: based on meaningful games. Let's talk about meaningful innings. I

658
00:32:37,278 --> 00:32:39,758
Speaker 3: thought earlier in the year and again just when it

659
00:32:39,878 --> 00:32:44,878
Speaker 3: was fresh, that it might be wise to consider the latters.

660
00:32:44,918 --> 00:32:46,718
Speaker 3: A couple of innings of a game like the eighth

661
00:32:46,718 --> 00:32:48,278
Speaker 3: and ninth inning possible. It was just at least the

662
00:32:48,398 --> 00:32:51,318
Speaker 3: ninth inning to permit a couple more seconds, just for

663
00:32:51,398 --> 00:32:54,598
Speaker 3: the like you're talking about the strategy. I thought that

664
00:32:54,678 --> 00:32:57,878
Speaker 3: at that time, I never that was as deep as

665
00:32:57,878 --> 00:32:59,838
Speaker 3: I got with that. But now that we're talking about it,

666
00:32:59,878 --> 00:33:04,118
Speaker 3: now that you're saying all this stuff accurately, I think

667
00:33:04,158 --> 00:33:07,718
Speaker 3: what happen, what would happen, is that you would you

668
00:33:07,758 --> 00:33:10,638
Speaker 3: would you would mess with the tempo. Uh, these guys,

669
00:33:10,678 --> 00:33:12,638
Speaker 3: it's no different than a good golf swing right where

670
00:33:12,638 --> 00:33:14,198
Speaker 3: you have tempo in it. When you have tempo and

671
00:33:14,238 --> 00:33:17,318
Speaker 3: a good golf swing, normally your ball striking ability increases.

672
00:33:17,358 --> 00:33:20,598
Speaker 3: I think these pictures and even the hitters have gotten

673
00:33:20,598 --> 00:33:22,198
Speaker 3: to do a tempo now. I think if you gave

674
00:33:22,238 --> 00:33:23,758
Speaker 3: them more time, they wouldn't know what to do with it.

675
00:33:24,478 --> 00:33:28,318
Speaker 3: I in the beginning was uncomfortable only because they were

676
00:33:28,438 --> 00:33:30,878
Speaker 3: accustomed to different habits. But now the habit's been made

677
00:33:31,478 --> 00:33:33,398
Speaker 3: that to get in the box, get ready and swing

678
00:33:33,438 --> 00:33:35,958
Speaker 3: the bat, and let's go from the hitting perspective and

679
00:33:36,038 --> 00:33:39,398
Speaker 3: the pitching perspective. So I think if you permitted more time,

680
00:33:40,358 --> 00:33:42,438
Speaker 3: the potential to destroy temp would be there. Number one.

681
00:33:42,518 --> 00:33:44,678
Speaker 3: Number two, I don't think it would change. I think,

682
00:33:44,758 --> 00:33:46,838
Speaker 3: for the most part, even if you permitted more time,

683
00:33:47,278 --> 00:33:49,718
Speaker 3: it would be rare that guys would take more time

684
00:33:49,798 --> 00:33:54,398
Speaker 3: on either side. So yeah, I don't I would not

685
00:33:54,478 --> 00:33:56,038
Speaker 3: do it, as I guess in my conclusion, I would

686
00:33:56,078 --> 00:33:58,558
Speaker 3: not add any more time. I don't think it's necessary.

687
00:33:58,598 --> 00:34:02,758
Speaker 3: I think they've learned how to construct their strategy within

688
00:34:02,798 --> 00:34:06,518
Speaker 3: the parameters right now, and I don't if anything, you'd

689
00:34:06,518 --> 00:34:10,198
Speaker 3: become even more creative regarding getting your strategy across, whether

690
00:34:10,198 --> 00:34:11,838
Speaker 3: it's a sign from the bench or something you do

691
00:34:11,878 --> 00:34:14,878
Speaker 3: before the game, in regards to staying within this temple

692
00:34:14,918 --> 00:34:17,478
Speaker 3: that you've created, and again, I think it would be

693
00:34:17,518 --> 00:34:21,238
Speaker 3: actually detrimental. Last point, now that you've brought that up.

694
00:34:21,718 --> 00:34:23,278
Speaker 3: The one role I don't like is a throw over.

695
00:34:23,358 --> 00:34:25,318
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, base dealing is base even that throws

696
00:34:25,358 --> 00:34:29,158
Speaker 3: over to first base to permit it at two say,

697
00:34:29,158 --> 00:34:32,038
Speaker 3: I don't agree with that. The bigger bases, I don't

698
00:34:32,078 --> 00:34:34,918
Speaker 3: think I've been impactful more still on bases are primarily

699
00:34:34,998 --> 00:34:38,038
Speaker 3: because of the fact that you can't throw over more

700
00:34:38,038 --> 00:34:40,838
Speaker 3: than two times. If we've remedied the fact that the

701
00:34:40,838 --> 00:34:43,998
Speaker 3: pace of the game has been accelerated just based on

702
00:34:44,238 --> 00:34:50,158
Speaker 3: the clock, there's different things that can be revisited, as

703
00:34:50,198 --> 00:34:53,878
Speaker 3: for example, throwing over to first space not being as

704
00:34:53,958 --> 00:34:56,998
Speaker 3: pertinent now, so in other words, permitting the third or

705
00:34:56,998 --> 00:34:59,238
Speaker 3: the fourth time to be thrown over because in fact

706
00:34:59,278 --> 00:35:01,478
Speaker 3: we're getting the ball to the plate more quickly in

707
00:35:01,518 --> 00:35:04,758
Speaker 3: between pitches, and then thus strategic lee being able to

708
00:35:04,758 --> 00:35:08,878
Speaker 3: control the running game better as a manager. Managers today

709
00:35:08,998 --> 00:35:12,718
Speaker 3: have I think less and less potential impact on the

710
00:35:12,718 --> 00:35:14,958
Speaker 3: game because what they're able to do is being mitigated

711
00:35:14,998 --> 00:35:19,198
Speaker 3: by rules. Whether it's how to use your bullpen. You

712
00:35:19,198 --> 00:35:20,878
Speaker 3: know the fact that how many times you could throw

713
00:35:20,878 --> 00:35:23,958
Speaker 3: over and try to control running game. We talked about

714
00:35:23,958 --> 00:35:26,038
Speaker 3: the acceleration of pitch outs. You know that better than

715
00:35:26,078 --> 00:35:28,998
Speaker 3: me if that's actually occurred. But the more we include

716
00:35:29,038 --> 00:35:31,518
Speaker 3: these new rules in the game, run around second base

717
00:35:31,998 --> 00:35:35,798
Speaker 3: and a tenth inning, it really mitigates the importance of

718
00:35:36,238 --> 00:35:39,358
Speaker 3: a creative manager in a dugout because again, you're making

719
00:35:39,358 --> 00:35:42,678
Speaker 3: everything the same, where people that are more creative and

720
00:35:42,718 --> 00:35:46,158
Speaker 3: there thinking, more willing to take chances can't because there's

721
00:35:46,398 --> 00:35:48,918
Speaker 3: no chance to be taken. It's all the same stuff.

722
00:35:48,958 --> 00:35:53,678
Speaker 3: But even when the national leagueslad national league rules and

723
00:35:53,718 --> 00:35:55,558
Speaker 3: we different things. I was thinking about the game where

724
00:35:55,558 --> 00:35:59,278
Speaker 3: we popped Travis Wooden left field because we had to

725
00:35:59,398 --> 00:36:03,038
Speaker 3: based on number of relief pitchers available to us that night.

726
00:36:04,638 --> 00:36:07,518
Speaker 3: Things like that you take advantage of the situation as

727
00:36:07,598 --> 00:36:10,438
Speaker 3: it is and actually have to be creative and manage

728
00:36:10,438 --> 00:36:14,678
Speaker 3: the game that's no longer as necessary. And maybe that

729
00:36:14,838 --> 00:36:18,518
Speaker 3: partly speaks to the trend to going towards a middle

730
00:36:18,558 --> 00:36:22,598
Speaker 3: management situation as opposed to management situation. So again, this

731
00:36:22,678 --> 00:36:24,998
Speaker 3: is a long answer to your question, but I think

732
00:36:25,038 --> 00:36:28,238
Speaker 3: temple is important. I think throwing over the first space argument,

733
00:36:28,278 --> 00:36:30,998
Speaker 3: if in fact the temple has been impacted in a

734
00:36:31,038 --> 00:36:33,798
Speaker 3: positive way, should then get rid of the two over

735
00:36:33,838 --> 00:36:37,958
Speaker 3: throwover rule completely, and even to the point where runn

736
00:36:37,958 --> 00:36:39,518
Speaker 3: around second base and x R innings. And I know

737
00:36:39,558 --> 00:36:42,518
Speaker 3: you kind of like that, but I think we continually

738
00:36:42,558 --> 00:36:48,598
Speaker 3: take away strategical analysis from the manager's perspective, where a

739
00:36:48,598 --> 00:36:51,278
Speaker 3: team could actually have an edge because somebody's creative in

740
00:36:51,318 --> 00:36:51,798
Speaker 3: the dugout.

741
00:36:52,158 --> 00:36:53,998
Speaker 1: Now, I would not argue that, Joe, And that's one

742
00:36:54,038 --> 00:36:56,518
Speaker 1: reason why I didn't like the three batter minimum rule.

743
00:36:57,318 --> 00:37:00,078
Speaker 1: You're tying the hands of the manager, and I definitely

744
00:37:00,158 --> 00:37:04,318
Speaker 1: agree that the manager's input has been mitigate by a

745
00:37:04,358 --> 00:37:08,878
Speaker 1: lot of reasons, but even from a strategy standpoint, But

746
00:37:08,958 --> 00:37:12,758
Speaker 1: I will say that these new rules have allowed the

747
00:37:12,838 --> 00:37:16,278
Speaker 1: style of the game to be better, and I think

748
00:37:16,318 --> 00:37:19,638
Speaker 1: about Brandon Hydes. Orioles is my number one example. The

749
00:37:19,678 --> 00:37:22,238
Speaker 1: team is six in the major leagues and runs per game,

750
00:37:22,918 --> 00:37:25,678
Speaker 1: but they're nowhere near the top in terms of slugging

751
00:37:25,918 --> 00:37:29,358
Speaker 1: and home runs. You look at how they win baseball games,

752
00:37:30,038 --> 00:37:33,398
Speaker 1: and they take the extra base more than any team in.

753
00:37:33,398 --> 00:37:34,718
Speaker 2: Baseball except the Braves.

754
00:37:35,198 --> 00:37:37,758
Speaker 1: They are second in the major leagues to Tampa Bay

755
00:37:38,038 --> 00:37:42,678
Speaker 1: hitting with runners in scoring position, and their defense because

756
00:37:42,718 --> 00:37:46,038
Speaker 1: they have athletes all over the field, is exceptional. So

757
00:37:46,198 --> 00:37:49,758
Speaker 1: this style of play, and Brandon Hyde said, listen, I

758
00:37:49,758 --> 00:37:52,158
Speaker 1: can hit and run, I can bunt, I can move

759
00:37:52,238 --> 00:37:55,158
Speaker 1: players to different positions. I've got a lot of flexibility.

760
00:37:55,878 --> 00:37:57,918
Speaker 1: You know, the game wasn't played like that for the

761
00:37:57,998 --> 00:38:01,518
Speaker 1: last decade. So I'm glad to see that not only

762
00:38:01,598 --> 00:38:04,318
Speaker 1: can you play that way, but you can win. This

763
00:38:04,398 --> 00:38:07,318
Speaker 1: is a team that doesn't win with slugging. It wins

764
00:38:07,358 --> 00:38:11,558
Speaker 1: with athleticism speed. As Brandon Hyde told me, we play

765
00:38:11,718 --> 00:38:14,798
Speaker 1: faster than other teams. And it's literally true. When I

766
00:38:14,838 --> 00:38:18,198
Speaker 1: watched the Orioles play teams like the Yankees. Man, it's

767
00:38:18,238 --> 00:38:21,918
Speaker 1: a mismatch, you know, it is a Formula one race

768
00:38:21,958 --> 00:38:25,638
Speaker 1: car going against a jalape because one team is playing

769
00:38:25,678 --> 00:38:27,038
Speaker 1: a completely different speed.

770
00:38:27,118 --> 00:38:27,998
Speaker 2: So I like that.

771
00:38:28,478 --> 00:38:31,158
Speaker 1: As far as the base running and the stolen base,

772
00:38:31,238 --> 00:38:33,758
Speaker 1: I'll give you some numbers, Joe, because the impact really

773
00:38:33,798 --> 00:38:36,638
Speaker 1: hasn't been as great as you might think. In terms

774
00:38:36,678 --> 00:38:41,198
Speaker 1: of limits on throwing over, pickoff attempts per game is

775
00:38:41,238 --> 00:38:42,718
Speaker 1: down by one point two.

776
00:38:43,158 --> 00:38:44,918
Speaker 2: That's it, okay.

777
00:38:45,438 --> 00:38:50,078
Speaker 1: Stolen base percentage is in terms of stolen based attempts,

778
00:38:50,118 --> 00:38:52,718
Speaker 1: it's gone from one point four per game to one

779
00:38:52,758 --> 00:38:55,838
Speaker 1: point eight, so that's gone up a bit. Stolen based

780
00:38:55,838 --> 00:38:58,678
Speaker 1: success rate is the highest of all time, eighty percent.

781
00:38:58,878 --> 00:39:01,758
Speaker 1: It was seventy five percent last year. That's not a

782
00:39:01,918 --> 00:39:05,358
Speaker 1: lot in my book. And as far as disengaged, I

783
00:39:05,558 --> 00:39:07,318
Speaker 1: was really shocked to hear these.

784
00:39:07,198 --> 00:39:09,078
Speaker 2: Numbers the stolen base percentage.

785
00:39:09,118 --> 00:39:12,118
Speaker 1: You would think that after a guy's picked twice, the

786
00:39:12,158 --> 00:39:15,358
Speaker 1: stolen base percentage would be just astronomical right in the

787
00:39:15,438 --> 00:39:18,958
Speaker 1: high nineties, because now you can't throw over a third time.

788
00:39:18,998 --> 00:39:21,358
Speaker 1: If you do and you don't get the runner, that's

789
00:39:21,358 --> 00:39:25,758
Speaker 1: a buck and the guy moves up disengagements without any

790
00:39:25,878 --> 00:39:28,878
Speaker 1: being made. The stolen base rate is eighty point seven

791
00:39:28,998 --> 00:39:33,678
Speaker 1: percent after one disengagement, it actually goes down slightly to

792
00:39:33,718 --> 00:39:37,518
Speaker 1: seventy nine point eight and after two this is really weird.

793
00:39:37,598 --> 00:39:41,598
Speaker 1: It goes down to seventy six percent. This success rate

794
00:39:41,718 --> 00:39:45,318
Speaker 1: is actually lowest after two disengagements. I guess that means

795
00:39:45,358 --> 00:39:47,918
Speaker 1: the pitcher has kept the guy close. So I get

796
00:39:47,918 --> 00:39:50,758
Speaker 1: what you're saying that. I would not disagree. There are

797
00:39:50,758 --> 00:39:53,078
Speaker 1: more governors on a guy running a game in today's

798
00:39:53,078 --> 00:39:55,798
Speaker 1: game than I think there's ever been. It's probably one

799
00:39:55,838 --> 00:39:58,958
Speaker 1: reason why no manager has been fired at all this year, and.

800
00:39:58,918 --> 00:40:01,118
Speaker 2: We were just loaded with disappointing teams.

801
00:40:01,478 --> 00:40:05,038
Speaker 1: Correct, But I don't think that the gagement rule has

802
00:40:05,158 --> 00:40:08,398
Speaker 1: really changed the game that much. And I like to

803
00:40:08,438 --> 00:40:11,198
Speaker 1: see more stolen bases and even the threat of stolen bases.

804
00:40:11,198 --> 00:40:12,198
Speaker 2: I think it's more exciting.

805
00:40:12,638 --> 00:40:17,198
Speaker 3: Well, you've kind of put to bed the thought I thought,

806
00:40:17,198 --> 00:40:21,478
Speaker 3: maybe by the thought of the third throwover has actually

807
00:40:21,478 --> 00:40:24,038
Speaker 3: increased stolen bases. But you're telling me that it has not,

808
00:40:24,558 --> 00:40:26,758
Speaker 3: So I accept that. But I don't even know if

809
00:40:26,798 --> 00:40:29,038
Speaker 3: that means the balls being put in play like earlier

810
00:40:29,038 --> 00:40:31,718
Speaker 3: in the account. Who knows. There's different things with that,

811
00:40:32,478 --> 00:40:34,798
Speaker 3: But that's kind of interesting to me. Any role that

812
00:40:34,838 --> 00:40:37,878
Speaker 3: had been put in play in order to implement or

813
00:40:38,278 --> 00:40:41,118
Speaker 3: create a better pace of the game. Again, I think

814
00:40:41,238 --> 00:40:44,918
Speaker 3: has is not as necessary as it once was thought

815
00:40:44,918 --> 00:40:48,158
Speaker 3: to be because the one and only rule that's been

816
00:40:48,918 --> 00:40:52,158
Speaker 3: implemented that has made the change or has created to

817
00:40:52,198 --> 00:40:54,598
Speaker 3: the desired result is the pitch clock. I mean I

818
00:40:54,958 --> 00:40:57,678
Speaker 3: said that from the beginning, I thought that all these

819
00:40:57,718 --> 00:40:59,918
Speaker 3: other things are being bandied about or thought about her

820
00:41:00,078 --> 00:41:02,678
Speaker 3: and implement it. But the last thing that we put

821
00:41:02,718 --> 00:41:05,038
Speaker 3: in play was the one thing that has changed the game,

822
00:41:05,358 --> 00:41:06,758
Speaker 3: and that is the fact that you have to throw

823
00:41:06,758 --> 00:41:09,918
Speaker 3: the ball within so many seconds. With that, all this

824
00:41:09,998 --> 00:41:13,198
Speaker 3: other stuff, to me, should is not necessary. And if

825
00:41:13,198 --> 00:41:14,638
Speaker 3: you can get rid of that some of that stuff,

826
00:41:14,638 --> 00:41:17,318
Speaker 3: then that puts the game back more into the hands

827
00:41:17,398 --> 00:41:24,398
Speaker 3: mentally of the manager and is being able to utilize

828
00:41:24,398 --> 00:41:27,958
Speaker 3: his own devices to try to help influence the game

829
00:41:27,958 --> 00:41:30,838
Speaker 3: in the favor of his team. Final point that you're saying, agreed,

830
00:41:31,238 --> 00:41:35,718
Speaker 3: no managerial firings actually points directly to the point or

831
00:41:35,758 --> 00:41:40,038
Speaker 3: fact that these guys are definitely kind of the middle

832
00:41:40,118 --> 00:41:43,558
Speaker 3: manager that we've talked about because they're basically implementing what

833
00:41:43,598 --> 00:41:47,318
Speaker 3: they've been told to implement before the game begins and

834
00:41:47,598 --> 00:41:51,038
Speaker 3: it's kind of a passive method where it's easily deniable

835
00:41:51,078 --> 00:41:53,318
Speaker 3: that no, I didn't tell this manager to do whatever,

836
00:41:53,518 --> 00:41:57,038
Speaker 3: But in fact, the way these meetings are run and

837
00:41:58,718 --> 00:42:01,198
Speaker 3: how the day is set up anymore, and the fact

838
00:42:01,198 --> 00:42:03,478
Speaker 3: that you could be horrible on the field and not

839
00:42:03,558 --> 00:42:06,718
Speaker 3: feel the pain of it regarding being retained or not.

840
00:42:07,438 --> 00:42:10,878
Speaker 3: It just proves how much the front offices are involved

841
00:42:10,878 --> 00:42:13,278
Speaker 3: in the daily running of the team on the field. Because,

842
00:42:13,598 --> 00:42:15,558
Speaker 3: after all, if you fired somebody after you've told them

843
00:42:15,558 --> 00:42:19,398
Speaker 3: what to do constantly, there'd be a good argument for

844
00:42:19,438 --> 00:42:20,998
Speaker 3: that manager to come back and say, listen, I was

845
00:42:20,998 --> 00:42:22,918
Speaker 3: just doing what they told me to do, and that

846
00:42:22,958 --> 00:42:25,198
Speaker 3: in fact is true. I mean, anybody, they could argue

847
00:42:25,198 --> 00:42:26,718
Speaker 3: it as much as they want, but it is true.

848
00:42:26,998 --> 00:42:31,838
Speaker 3: So all these things are again interrelated and interconnected. End

849
00:42:31,878 --> 00:42:35,318
Speaker 3: of the day, pace, clock, love it, everything else. Go

850
00:42:35,358 --> 00:42:37,358
Speaker 3: back to playing baseball and that and the last point

851
00:42:37,438 --> 00:42:40,718
Speaker 3: what you were saying about the Orioles, they're pretty much

852
00:42:40,758 --> 00:42:43,358
Speaker 3: the latter day race. That's exactly what we did in

853
00:42:43,358 --> 00:42:45,558
Speaker 3: two thousand and six, seven and eight to become pertinent.

854
00:42:45,598 --> 00:42:48,478
Speaker 3: We played that style of baseball. We have the right

855
00:42:48,558 --> 00:42:50,278
Speaker 3: kind of athletes, we had the pitching and defense to

856
00:42:50,318 --> 00:42:52,678
Speaker 3: back it up, and we developed the method of style

857
00:42:53,278 --> 00:42:56,798
Speaker 3: that catapulted us and it's still being utilized today in

858
00:42:56,918 --> 00:42:59,238
Speaker 3: Tapa base I like to believe what hiders doing there

859
00:42:59,238 --> 00:43:03,078
Speaker 3: in Baltimore should be able to would permit this team

860
00:43:03,118 --> 00:43:05,558
Speaker 3: to be that or that kind of a team for

861
00:43:05,638 --> 00:43:09,238
Speaker 3: years to come, because obviously, look, this is what Beta's great.

862
00:43:09,278 --> 00:43:11,318
Speaker 3: I think the Rays got away from that for wabbly.

863
00:43:11,678 --> 00:43:13,478
Speaker 3: They got away from their pitching and defense and try

864
00:43:13,518 --> 00:43:16,558
Speaker 3: to become more offensive oriented and they found out didn't work.

865
00:43:17,118 --> 00:43:19,278
Speaker 3: I just try to get home runs, the three true outcomes.

866
00:43:20,198 --> 00:43:22,918
Speaker 3: But the Ools are doing again copycat situation. More groups

867
00:43:22,958 --> 00:43:24,918
Speaker 3: are going to want to do that next year and

868
00:43:24,958 --> 00:43:28,598
Speaker 3: again I think hopefully they're learning their lesson there when

869
00:43:28,598 --> 00:43:31,398
Speaker 3: it comes to playing baseball on an annual basis, to

870
00:43:31,438 --> 00:43:32,718
Speaker 3: be pertinent, this is the way.

871
00:43:32,558 --> 00:43:36,038
Speaker 1: To do it, as always, Joe, great discussion, great insight,

872
00:43:36,638 --> 00:43:39,598
Speaker 1: And after that deep dive, we need to take a

873
00:43:39,638 --> 00:43:42,998
Speaker 1: break and when we get back, we deserve a little

874
00:43:43,198 --> 00:43:47,918
Speaker 1: getaway and we are going to Margueriteville right after this,

875
00:43:57,878 --> 00:44:01,438
Speaker 1: all right, Joe, Jimmy Buffett, we lost the great Jimmy Buffett,

876
00:44:01,478 --> 00:44:04,038
Speaker 1: and I got a great story to tell. You and

877
00:44:04,038 --> 00:44:06,998
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you probably cross paths at some point

878
00:44:07,078 --> 00:44:12,398
Speaker 1: because the connection is to Chicago and Wrigley Field. Okay,

879
00:44:12,438 --> 00:44:16,718
Speaker 1: back in the early nineteen seventies, before Margaritaville even was

880
00:44:16,758 --> 00:44:21,158
Speaker 1: a thing, Jimmy Buffett would play a place called the

881
00:44:21,278 --> 00:44:24,998
Speaker 1: Quiet Night, that's with a K, Quiet Night on Belmont Avenue.

882
00:44:25,478 --> 00:44:28,678
Speaker 1: He was just one of the many singers, songwriters trapesing

883
00:44:28,758 --> 00:44:33,718
Speaker 1: around Chicago, and he fell into a friendship with a

884
00:44:33,758 --> 00:44:38,038
Speaker 1: guy named Steve Goodman. He was the headliner at Earl

885
00:44:38,078 --> 00:44:42,238
Speaker 1: of Old Town Daga Friendly collaborate on some albums. Actually,

886
00:44:42,798 --> 00:44:46,118
Speaker 1: one of Steve Goodman's albums, Jimmy Buffett is on the

887
00:44:46,158 --> 00:44:48,078
Speaker 1: cover sitting next to John Prine.

888
00:44:48,118 --> 00:44:48,678
Speaker 2: How about that?

889
00:44:49,598 --> 00:44:51,198
Speaker 3: And you know.

890
00:44:51,198 --> 00:44:53,238
Speaker 2: They played on each other's albums.

891
00:44:53,598 --> 00:44:56,478
Speaker 1: They shared love of music obviously, and a love of

892
00:44:56,518 --> 00:44:59,598
Speaker 1: baseball too. Both of them would sit in the Rayfield

893
00:44:59,598 --> 00:45:01,518
Speaker 1: bleachers at Wrigley.

894
00:45:01,718 --> 00:45:03,918
Speaker 2: And take in those afternoon games. Nothing better.

895
00:45:04,078 --> 00:45:05,838
Speaker 1: By the way, if you go to Wrigley, I always

896
00:45:05,878 --> 00:45:08,318
Speaker 1: recommend you go to a day game first because the

897
00:45:08,398 --> 00:45:14,518
Speaker 1: vibe is just it's unbelievable. So Steve Goodman, Actually, in

898
00:45:14,598 --> 00:45:18,798
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, he was asked by the radio station

899
00:45:18,878 --> 00:45:23,718
Speaker 1: there to write a song about the Cubs, and he did,

900
00:45:24,078 --> 00:45:28,678
Speaker 1: and that is Go Cubs Go. And unfortunately, Steve Goodman

901
00:45:28,798 --> 00:45:34,238
Speaker 1: passed away later that year from leukemia. And Jimmy Buffett,

902
00:45:34,318 --> 00:45:37,278
Speaker 1: obviously he wound up playing he was a Cubs fan,

903
00:45:37,798 --> 00:45:41,238
Speaker 1: wound up playing the first concert ever at Wrigley Field

904
00:45:41,518 --> 00:45:45,078
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and five, wearing his Cubs jersey,

905
00:45:45,358 --> 00:45:48,598
Speaker 1: and he promised if the Cubs won the World Series

906
00:45:49,438 --> 00:45:52,278
Speaker 1: that he would come back and play Wrigley again, and

907
00:45:52,318 --> 00:45:54,598
Speaker 1: he did. He came back twice, and I think it

908
00:45:54,678 --> 00:45:58,958
Speaker 1: was twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen. So Jimmy Buffett has

909
00:45:58,998 --> 00:46:02,478
Speaker 1: a strong connection or had a strong connection to Wrigley

910
00:46:03,038 --> 00:46:06,758
Speaker 1: Go Cubs Go. Oh and the first concert at Wrigley

911
00:46:06,798 --> 00:46:09,358
Speaker 1: Field was played by Jimmy Buffett. I'm not sure if

912
00:46:09,358 --> 00:46:12,518
Speaker 1: you ever ran across or maybe even you went to

913
00:46:12,678 --> 00:46:14,878
Speaker 1: one of these concerts after you won the World Series

914
00:46:14,878 --> 00:46:18,598
Speaker 1: with Chicago, Joe, but one of a kind a true

915
00:46:18,638 --> 00:46:21,758
Speaker 1: baseball fan. If you're sitting in a bleachers Rayfield bleachers

916
00:46:21,758 --> 00:46:25,518
Speaker 1: at Wrigley on an afternoon playing a gig that night

917
00:46:25,598 --> 00:46:28,598
Speaker 1: at the Quiet Night Man, you're a true baseball fan.

918
00:46:28,998 --> 00:46:32,638
Speaker 3: Well, let me unpack that a little bit too. For years,

919
00:46:32,678 --> 00:46:38,078
Speaker 3: the Red Sox Sweet Caroline came on, and there's nothing

920
00:46:38,118 --> 00:46:41,118
Speaker 3: I love more than to be leading that ballgame whenever

921
00:46:41,158 --> 00:46:45,678
Speaker 3: that song came on, and after the game, I could

922
00:46:45,718 --> 00:46:49,758
Speaker 3: get kind of vicious and how I yelled out towards

923
00:46:49,838 --> 00:46:52,918
Speaker 3: the crowd after a victory walking off the mound and

924
00:46:52,998 --> 00:46:55,558
Speaker 3: tell them what to do with Sweet Caroline what I

925
00:46:55,598 --> 00:46:58,078
Speaker 3: wanted with the Rays. If you ever looked at you've

926
00:46:58,078 --> 00:47:01,398
Speaker 3: seen Tropicana Field, of course I always still had it

927
00:47:01,398 --> 00:47:04,918
Speaker 3: looked like a big cheeseburger, and I wanted us to

928
00:47:04,958 --> 00:47:08,398
Speaker 3: do the same thing. Cheeseburger in Paradise. I thought that'd

929
00:47:08,438 --> 00:47:11,758
Speaker 3: be a great middle inning song down there with the Rays.

930
00:47:12,198 --> 00:47:14,998
Speaker 3: They get the all ten thousand fans involved, there's seven

931
00:47:15,038 --> 00:47:16,558
Speaker 3: thousand fans involved.

932
00:47:16,238 --> 00:47:18,678
Speaker 2: Great sing along tune, absolutely right.

933
00:47:18,718 --> 00:47:20,718
Speaker 3: So I thought it'd be like the and I brought

934
00:47:20,758 --> 00:47:24,318
Speaker 3: it up, and of course it never did happen. But yeah,

935
00:47:24,358 --> 00:47:28,198
Speaker 3: the Sweet Caroline thing caused me to promote the idea

936
00:47:28,198 --> 00:47:31,238
Speaker 3: of Cheeseburger in Paradise for the trot because I've also

937
00:47:31,318 --> 00:47:33,958
Speaker 3: thought McDonald or somebody should have just bought the building

938
00:47:34,038 --> 00:47:35,278
Speaker 3: or put their name on it, and they made it

939
00:47:35,318 --> 00:47:37,598
Speaker 3: look like a cheeseburger from the outside, you know, put

940
00:47:37,598 --> 00:47:39,438
Speaker 3: it make the top look like a bun, the middle

941
00:47:39,438 --> 00:47:41,758
Speaker 3: looked like a burger, et cetera. It was perfect, perfect

942
00:47:41,798 --> 00:47:45,878
Speaker 3: advertising situation. Last thing with him, Yeah, I did meet him.

943
00:47:46,398 --> 00:47:50,078
Speaker 3: I met him at the White House with the Cubs

944
00:47:50,478 --> 00:47:52,398
Speaker 3: after the World Series when we went there to see

945
00:47:52,438 --> 00:47:56,438
Speaker 3: President Obama and he was sitting down in a chair.

946
00:47:56,438 --> 00:47:59,518
Speaker 3: He came up introduced himself to I didn't know, sorry, man,

947
00:47:59,678 --> 00:48:01,718
Speaker 3: I didn't you know. You got so much going on,

948
00:48:01,758 --> 00:48:06,278
Speaker 3: but it came up. Great conversation, sweet man, A totally

949
00:48:06,918 --> 00:48:10,838
Speaker 3: total Cub fan. So that was my one moment with

950
00:48:10,878 --> 00:48:14,798
Speaker 3: greatness there meeting Jimmy Buffett. I can't remember specifically what

951
00:48:14,918 --> 00:48:17,598
Speaker 3: rumor was in the White House and him relating to

952
00:48:17,638 --> 00:48:21,078
Speaker 3: me how excited he was for us and the team

953
00:48:21,598 --> 00:48:23,678
Speaker 3: and how much of a diehard Cup fan that he was.

954
00:48:23,798 --> 00:48:25,758
Speaker 3: So that's why I got to know all that about

955
00:48:25,798 --> 00:48:26,518
Speaker 3: mister Buffett.

956
00:48:26,838 --> 00:48:27,678
Speaker 2: That is so cool.

957
00:48:27,798 --> 00:48:30,038
Speaker 1: And by the way, after he won the World Series

958
00:48:30,038 --> 00:48:33,518
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, Go Cubs Go actually went up to

959
00:48:33,598 --> 00:48:38,318
Speaker 1: number three on the Billboard chart. How many years after

960
00:48:38,358 --> 00:48:42,078
Speaker 1: Steve Goodman wrote that in nineteen eighty four, got a

961
00:48:42,118 --> 00:48:44,798
Speaker 1: lot of airtime and a lot of play in twenty sixteen,

962
00:48:45,198 --> 00:48:46,078
Speaker 1: and it's back again.

963
00:48:46,158 --> 00:48:48,358
Speaker 3: By the way, I'll be a Homer a little bit because, yes,

964
00:48:48,398 --> 00:48:50,118
Speaker 3: after we won a game at home when that song

965
00:48:50,198 --> 00:48:53,358
Speaker 3: came on, that's pretty cool feeling. It's pretty cool feeling.

966
00:48:53,398 --> 00:48:57,278
Speaker 3: Everybody there, all the fans are pretty much singing the refrain,

967
00:48:57,838 --> 00:49:00,998
Speaker 3: everybody standing up. It's the biggest fraternity party on the

968
00:49:00,998 --> 00:49:04,478
Speaker 3: planet every home game. It's wonderful. That's what it is.

969
00:49:04,518 --> 00:49:06,758
Speaker 3: It's a frat house. It's beautiful. I love the place,

970
00:49:07,238 --> 00:49:09,598
Speaker 3: absolutely loved that place. Was the best time five years

971
00:49:09,598 --> 00:49:13,158
Speaker 3: of my life. And that song was perfectly written. The

972
00:49:13,358 --> 00:49:16,758
Speaker 3: w flag is a tremendous tradition and that fan base

973
00:49:16,838 --> 00:49:19,558
Speaker 3: there is there's nothing like it. Nobody liked them.

974
00:49:19,638 --> 00:49:21,758
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, that vibe is starting to come back.

975
00:49:21,918 --> 00:49:22,078
Speaker 3: Yeah.

976
00:49:22,398 --> 00:49:25,998
Speaker 1: Cubs under David Ross look like they're playing again, a

977
00:49:26,078 --> 00:49:28,638
Speaker 1: very active style of baseball. I watched that team play

978
00:49:28,638 --> 00:49:32,598
Speaker 1: offensive baseball, Joe, and they're moving the baseball. Cody Bellinger

979
00:49:32,878 --> 00:49:37,038
Speaker 1: is become a pure hitter, not a slugger. You've got

980
00:49:37,078 --> 00:49:39,758
Speaker 1: Madrigall and Horner and all these guys putting the ball

981
00:49:39,798 --> 00:49:42,638
Speaker 1: in play again. They run the bases aggressively, a great

982
00:49:42,678 --> 00:49:46,718
Speaker 1: defensive team. They're sort of a National League version of

983
00:49:46,758 --> 00:49:47,838
Speaker 1: the Baltimore Orioles.

984
00:49:47,958 --> 00:49:49,518
Speaker 2: They are a fun watch.

985
00:49:50,198 --> 00:49:52,438
Speaker 3: I think their middle infield is just throwback as you

986
00:49:52,518 --> 00:49:55,718
Speaker 3: get it. I mean, those two guys together could have

987
00:49:55,718 --> 00:50:00,598
Speaker 3: played in any Irran baseball once in Horner. I was

988
00:50:00,638 --> 00:50:02,318
Speaker 3: with Horner for a bit when I was there. I

989
00:50:02,438 --> 00:50:05,518
Speaker 3: love the guy znercom Swamp. I just like the way

990
00:50:05,558 --> 00:50:08,758
Speaker 3: they interact, the way they played baseball. It's contagious to

991
00:50:08,798 --> 00:50:11,398
Speaker 3: the rest of the group. Bellinger with the renaissance he's

992
00:50:11,438 --> 00:50:15,238
Speaker 3: experiencing right now, Ian and leftfield looks outstanding. You mentioned Madrigal,

993
00:50:15,518 --> 00:50:17,718
Speaker 3: and I like games John Gomes. I liked that when

994
00:50:17,718 --> 00:50:19,758
Speaker 3: he was with Cleveland. Behind the plate. I liked that

995
00:50:19,838 --> 00:50:22,718
Speaker 3: part of it too. The kids steal that pitched yesterday.

996
00:50:23,358 --> 00:50:24,958
Speaker 3: I never saw him before, but I watched it a

997
00:50:24,998 --> 00:50:27,238
Speaker 3: little bit. I didn't realize not a high velocity guy,

998
00:50:27,878 --> 00:50:30,078
Speaker 3: but my god, his fastball gets on the hitter. It's

999
00:50:30,118 --> 00:50:33,078
Speaker 3: kind of like Andrew Heeny esque in the American League.

1000
00:50:33,078 --> 00:50:34,478
Speaker 3: It's just that this guy might be a little bit

1001
00:50:34,478 --> 00:50:37,758
Speaker 3: more demonstrative and how he feels about himself when he's pitching,

1002
00:50:38,278 --> 00:50:42,478
Speaker 3: but that was that was interesting. And then as Ole Adbert,

1003
00:50:42,518 --> 00:50:45,198
Speaker 3: I mean I saw him as a starter, but he

1004
00:50:45,238 --> 00:50:47,638
Speaker 3: all of a sudden he's developed his front hip comebacker

1005
00:50:47,678 --> 00:50:50,398
Speaker 3: to lefties and did the writings from the back door

1006
00:50:50,718 --> 00:50:54,078
Speaker 3: really interesting? So yeah, I wish them well. Love ROSSI

1007
00:50:54,158 --> 00:50:56,918
Speaker 3: loved that whole group. There's a lot of coaches left there,

1008
00:50:56,958 --> 00:50:59,758
Speaker 3: like guys inside the building, and of course Vja, the

1009
00:50:59,878 --> 00:51:02,038
Speaker 3: traveling secretary of the whole group. Wonderful.

1010
00:51:02,118 --> 00:51:03,158
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good vibe.

1011
00:51:03,278 --> 00:51:05,558
Speaker 1: And speaking of good vibes, I don't know whether the

1012
00:51:05,638 --> 00:51:09,038
Speaker 1: Quiet Night is still there on Belmont Avenue. But in

1013
00:51:09,078 --> 00:51:12,358
Speaker 1: honor of Jimmy Buffett, you have something to take us

1014
00:51:12,358 --> 00:51:14,758
Speaker 1: out here, this latest edition of the Book of Joe.

1015
00:51:15,038 --> 00:51:17,558
Speaker 3: Well, I don't have a Jimmy by just gave you

1016
00:51:17,638 --> 00:51:20,358
Speaker 3: my Jimmy Buffett. Cheezburger in Paradise got him.

1017
00:51:20,398 --> 00:51:23,238
Speaker 1: So, by the way, the Rays have to follow up

1018
00:51:23,278 --> 00:51:25,558
Speaker 1: on that, because I'm with you. That place does look

1019
00:51:25,678 --> 00:51:28,798
Speaker 1: like a burger at a box from the outside, So

1020
00:51:29,158 --> 00:51:31,158
Speaker 1: a little bit of paint, a little bit of ingenuity,

1021
00:51:31,238 --> 00:51:32,638
Speaker 1: I can definitely see that happening.

1022
00:51:32,798 --> 00:51:35,638
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that I could see them staying there

1023
00:51:35,638 --> 00:51:37,598
Speaker 3: for the next fifty years if they did something like that.

1024
00:51:38,758 --> 00:51:41,118
Speaker 3: But I was going a different direction. Gosh, I should

1025
00:51:41,118 --> 00:51:44,718
Speaker 3: have gotten mister Buffet. But I just based on everything

1026
00:51:44,718 --> 00:51:48,038
Speaker 3: else we're talking about, and because it does come. I mean,

1027
00:51:48,078 --> 00:51:51,998
Speaker 3: I had this thing about energy plus enthusiasm that's where

1028
00:51:52,078 --> 00:51:56,598
Speaker 3: victory or success occurs. But knowledge is power, but enthusiasm

1029
00:51:56,678 --> 00:51:59,558
Speaker 3: pulls the switch. Oh like that, you know, because we

1030
00:51:59,638 --> 00:52:02,318
Speaker 3: all be like every organization, right, every one of them,

1031
00:52:02,758 --> 00:52:05,398
Speaker 3: they're working from the same to music. There's a lot

1032
00:52:05,438 --> 00:52:07,638
Speaker 3: of parody in the game. And there's a lot teams

1033
00:52:07,638 --> 00:52:10,438
Speaker 3: that are considered good teams, that are playoff caliber, teams

1034
00:52:10,438 --> 00:52:13,518
Speaker 3: that are just a couple games over five hundred. I mean,

1035
00:52:15,758 --> 00:52:18,678
Speaker 3: fifteen we came. We're the second wildcard team with ninety

1036
00:52:18,718 --> 00:52:21,878
Speaker 3: seven wins behind. Then there's Pittsburgh and then there was

1037
00:52:21,958 --> 00:52:25,198
Speaker 3: the Cardinals went into the division. So I'm looking at that.

1038
00:52:25,278 --> 00:52:27,798
Speaker 3: I mean, it's kind of interesting the teams that are

1039
00:52:27,798 --> 00:52:30,358
Speaker 3: barely above five hundred. Even the Twins who are leading

1040
00:52:30,358 --> 00:52:35,278
Speaker 3: their division are just what there are six games over,

1041
00:52:35,318 --> 00:52:38,598
Speaker 3: I think, and the Indians are six under. So there's

1042
00:52:38,918 --> 00:52:42,438
Speaker 3: this is part of it, the sameness of what's going on.

1043
00:52:42,518 --> 00:52:45,518
Speaker 3: Everybody's trying to play from the same sheet of music.

1044
00:52:45,558 --> 00:52:47,598
Speaker 3: And then you got the Orioles who are listening to

1045
00:52:47,678 --> 00:52:49,158
Speaker 3: a little bit of a different tune right now. Look

1046
00:52:49,158 --> 00:52:52,638
Speaker 3: where they're sitting as an example. So anyway, knowledge is power.

1047
00:52:52,678 --> 00:52:56,798
Speaker 3: Everybody's got that. But enthusiasm pulls the switch. Creativity pulls

1048
00:52:56,838 --> 00:52:59,318
Speaker 3: the switch. Not being afraid to go out on the

1049
00:52:59,358 --> 00:53:02,038
Speaker 3: limb because that's where the fruit is. That's the difference.

1050
00:53:02,078 --> 00:53:03,878
Speaker 3: Those are the difference makers, and that's what I love.

1051
00:53:04,238 --> 00:53:06,878
Speaker 1: I love that, Joe, and that does capture the Orioles

1052
00:53:06,918 --> 00:53:11,158
Speaker 1: because you watch them play, they smile. I love to

1053
00:53:11,158 --> 00:53:13,678
Speaker 1: see that. Listen, this game is hard. You have to

1054
00:53:13,678 --> 00:53:16,758
Speaker 1: be intense to play it. But what you just described there,

1055
00:53:16,758 --> 00:53:20,398
Speaker 1: that enthusiasm they have. That it's a younger team, yes,

1056
00:53:21,038 --> 00:53:25,198
Speaker 1: but I like the fact that they enjoy competing intensity

1057
00:53:25,478 --> 00:53:26,438
Speaker 1: with enthusiasm.

1058
00:53:26,598 --> 00:53:27,118
Speaker 2: Tough to beat.

1059
00:53:27,398 --> 00:53:29,558
Speaker 3: Well, that's part of why I think some teams have

1060
00:53:29,918 --> 00:53:32,598
Speaker 3: maybe hit their waterloo a bit based a lot of

1061
00:53:32,998 --> 00:53:34,838
Speaker 3: if you just want to go with agism, like you

1062
00:53:35,038 --> 00:53:38,678
Speaker 3: just go with older experienced players, which I like a

1063
00:53:38,758 --> 00:53:40,878
Speaker 3: smattering of them, but you have to be able to

1064
00:53:40,918 --> 00:53:44,558
Speaker 3: get normally. The youth is who brings the enthusiasm daily.

1065
00:53:45,478 --> 00:53:47,758
Speaker 3: After all, everybody fell in love with the Cincinnati Reds.

1066
00:53:47,758 --> 00:53:51,558
Speaker 3: This year, justifiably everybody's falling with the Orioles in love

1067
00:53:51,558 --> 00:53:54,678
Speaker 3: with the Ools, although that began last year. I still

1068
00:53:54,678 --> 00:53:58,558
Speaker 3: think that the Rays capture that kind of vibe and

1069
00:53:58,598 --> 00:54:01,878
Speaker 3: people glom onto them, Whereas, like the Padres, we keep

1070
00:54:01,918 --> 00:54:04,358
Speaker 3: asking what's wrong with the Padres? I don't think you

1071
00:54:04,438 --> 00:54:08,998
Speaker 3: see the same kind of enthusiasm generated this method of play.

1072
00:54:09,038 --> 00:54:12,958
Speaker 3: That's just kind of like hair on fire stuff. If

1073
00:54:12,998 --> 00:54:14,638
Speaker 3: you're talented and play with your hair on fire, you

1074
00:54:14,678 --> 00:54:16,118
Speaker 3: have a pretty good chance of doing well.

1075
00:54:16,278 --> 00:54:18,558
Speaker 1: Now that sounds like a whole nother episode What's wrong

1076
00:54:18,598 --> 00:54:21,038
Speaker 1: with the Padres? But in the meantime, this has been

1077
00:54:21,038 --> 00:54:23,878
Speaker 1: a blast. And have a toast, have a margarita in

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Speaker 1: honor of Jimmy Buffet as you call them.

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Speaker 3: I just mind today, brother, Thanks man.

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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.