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Speaker 1: Y'all, welcome to Zone seven. This is a special that

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Speaker 1: we're doing on Nancy Guthrie. And here's the way we're

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Speaker 1: going to lay this out. Tom Smith is with me.

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Speaker 1: You know, Tom retired NYPD, Medal of Holor. He knows

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Speaker 1: what he's talking about. We just want to walk you

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Speaker 1: through what we believe should have happened day one, day two,

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Speaker 1: and then tell you what we think we're seeing and

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Speaker 1: try to just explain some things. So I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to get right into it with Tom Smith, detective.

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Speaker 2: How are you good, my good friend, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm like everybody else, I'm crazy over this thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's you're just like a pinball machine or just every direction.

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Speaker 1: Just it's over here, No, it's over here. No no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's over here, it's up, down, it's sideways. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's not like any investigation I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: And you and I have talked so many times, We've

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Speaker 1: talked with other people that we admire and respect that

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Speaker 1: are detectives and investigators and crime see people and prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: and everybody says the same thing to me, this is

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Speaker 1: so odd. I've never seen anything like it. That's what

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Speaker 1: I hear over and over and over, no doubt.

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Speaker 2: And it's the classic one step up, two steps back.

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Speaker 2: That is this case.

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Speaker 1: All right, So let's just do this thing and show

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Speaker 1: people the way we believe if it was you and

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Speaker 1: I how it would go down. If you're a detective

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Speaker 1: and I'm your crime scene person, here's what would happen.

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Speaker 1: I'd call you up, detective. We've got an eighty four

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Speaker 1: year old woman missing, there's blood at the scene. What

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Speaker 1: do you want me to do?

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Speaker 2: The very first thing you're doing is getting everyone who

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Speaker 2: doesn't need to be there out of that area. Lock

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Speaker 2: it down, shut the street down, shut the driveway down.

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Speaker 2: No one's allowed in a X amount of perimeter you know,

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Speaker 2: from that location, and freeze it until I get there

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Speaker 2: or the team gets there, and then we re evaluate

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Speaker 2: it and then we do our walkthrough through it, and

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Speaker 2: then the next steps take place of Now you expand

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Speaker 2: that area to the street. You start getting a team together.

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Speaker 2: And remember, and you know this just as well as

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Speaker 2: I do, this doesn't work without a team. So you're

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Speaker 2: getting your team out there. People are immediately going to

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Speaker 2: be tasked to do stuff. You have two guys who

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Speaker 2: are going to be knocking on every door in that

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Speaker 2: neighborhood looking for video. You got two more guys who

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Speaker 2: are driving around the area from that location looking for videos.

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Speaker 2: You're going to get crime scene there to methodically go

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Speaker 2: through every inch of that home, you know, from the blood,

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Speaker 2: and then you work you know inward outward however they

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Speaker 2: want to do with the other pros, and you let

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Speaker 2: them do their job, and then you have leads that

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Speaker 2: are going to come in, you know, and all that bubble.

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Speaker 2: I get that that's down the road, but that initially

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Speaker 2: is what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: And y'all, he's already reminded me right out of the gate,

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Speaker 1: lock it down. We're gonna work this as a team.

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Speaker 1: So the way I like to work, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: figure out where my crime scene is, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to put the tape up, and then I put a

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Speaker 1: secondary set of tape outward. I make a track, essentially.

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Speaker 1: So here's what will happen. If the sheriff of the

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Speaker 1: chief of police shows up. They can look great on

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Speaker 1: camera coming under the yellow tape the outside, but they're

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Speaker 1: not in my crime scene. But they can walk that

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Speaker 1: whole track. They can go all the way around the house.

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Speaker 1: But they're not in my crime scene. The integrity of

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Speaker 1: that scene is maintained. The next thing I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do is set up a place for the media just

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Speaker 1: for them. I'm going to rope it off for them.

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Speaker 1: But they're nowhere near my crime scene. They're at the

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Speaker 1: front of the commune unity. Then I'm going to set

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Speaker 1: up a command center at the opposite end of the

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Speaker 1: street so that my chief or my sheriff is nowhere

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Speaker 1: near the media. And that's on purpose. So again, they

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Speaker 1: can walk the scene, they can go to the command center.

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Speaker 1: I've got bottled water, I've got coke, I've got air

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Speaker 1: conditioning on. Y'all go sit in the RV, stay out

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Speaker 1: of my scene, stay away from the media. And that's

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Speaker 1: just how it should be built up. So again, part

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Speaker 1: of our job is to protect the sheriff and the

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Speaker 1: chief and the brass. It's also to protect that scene.

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Speaker 1: So you want everybody away. You don't want them across

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Speaker 1: the street. You don't want them to be able to

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Speaker 1: follow me with their phone camera walking side by side

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Speaker 1: with me. You don't want that. We need to be

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Speaker 1: able to talk. We need to be able to say, hey, Tom,

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Speaker 1: this looks odd to me. I've got some broken flowers.

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Speaker 1: What is that about. We need to be able to

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Speaker 1: talk long before we see the video because those broken flowers,

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Speaker 1: as y'all know, leaped out at me. They don't make

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Speaker 1: any sense. They're odd, it's unusual. You don't see it.

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Speaker 1: So if you can't explain it, you take it.

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Speaker 2: You brought up a great point, Mac because you know initially, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we know what the initial and let's capitalize that, put

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Speaker 2: quotes around it. Whatever initial crime scene is. We have

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Speaker 2: no idea where that crime scene is going to expand

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Speaker 2: to once until you get in there. So you keeping

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Speaker 2: everyone in separate areas and back is maintains the integrity

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Speaker 2: of the crime scene. Because I've said this so many

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Speaker 2: times and me and you have said it to each other.

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Speaker 2: Not only are we there to figure the crime out

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Speaker 2: and gather evidence and put this puzzle together, it is

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Speaker 2: also the beginning of the trial. If you screw up

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Speaker 2: in the beginning of this and down the line you

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Speaker 2: end up locking somebody up. You want to be comfortable

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Speaker 2: and prepared for that trial and getting the right guy.

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Speaker 2: If it starts off bad, it's going to end bad.

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Speaker 2: If you start off secure, then the prosecution of that

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Speaker 2: person is going to be just flow and that's the

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Speaker 2: other part of crime scenes, right yeah, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Now, let's get real. I'm gonna call you back. Hey, detective,

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Speaker 1: it's Savannah Guthries. Mom. What do you want me to do?

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Speaker 2: The first thing you do is calling the FBI. That's

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Speaker 2: the initial thing.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's stop right there. Let's stop right there,

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Speaker 1: because I want to be sure people heard exactly what

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Speaker 1: you said. Y'all. He's talking about day one, minute one

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Speaker 1: that he hears. This is a high profile child of the victim.

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Speaker 1: It's not somebody that works at your local grocery store.

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Speaker 1: This is somebody that just about most people in America

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Speaker 1: know who you're talking about, whether they watch the Today

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Speaker 1: Show or not. You've seen her, you know of her.

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Speaker 1: She's at a level in the media that is top tier.

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Speaker 1: So now we have a different situation, and he's telling

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Speaker 1: you right off the bat, without hesitation, call the FBI. Tom,

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Speaker 1: Why would you do that?

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Speaker 2: Explain it because of the resources, because of who they are.

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Speaker 2: And now you're getting into an area where it becomes

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Speaker 2: a different case. Having someone of a high profile magnitude

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Speaker 2: changes the complexity of this case. It changes the leads

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Speaker 2: that are going to come in. It changes the circumstances

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Speaker 2: of the crime which we will get into, but it

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Speaker 2: also opens up the resources that the FBI has a right.

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Speaker 2: No one has the resources or the reach that they

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Speaker 2: have from a tech thinkal standpoint to you know, crime

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Speaker 2: scene and evidence collection and you know setting up manpower

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Speaker 2: that can now backfill a smaller department like the one

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Speaker 2: that's there. So they open up a host of things

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Speaker 2: that can make the case better, any investigation stronger going forward.

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Speaker 1: Okay, to take to this more information, her hearing aids,

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Speaker 1: her cell phone, her medication, her wallet, they've all been

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Speaker 1: left behind. But we also know she has a pacemaker,

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Speaker 1: she's on blood thinner, and she can't walk very far

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Speaker 1: on her own.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So now it's it's somewhat of an immediacy that

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Speaker 2: has to get out there. So now you engage in

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Speaker 2: the public, You get her picture out there, you get

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Speaker 2: the circumstances of what we know at this moment out there.

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Speaker 2: Because the speed in which the public can be involved

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Speaker 2: in a case can make a break a case. I've

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Speaker 2: said this on so many shows. I've said it to you, Cheryl.

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Speaker 2: The police can't be everywhere, but the public can be

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Speaker 2: so the quicker you get this information out there and

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Speaker 2: pictures and as much as you have. Now you're not

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Speaker 2: giving up details of the investigation. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: you're getting particulars out about this victim, pictures, locations, possible

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Speaker 2: travel directions, all that out to the public because that

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Speaker 2: is immediate. A million people see that. As soon as

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Speaker 2: you hit click, you hit send, and that's what you need.

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Speaker 1: So you have already contacted the FBI. They're going to

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Speaker 1: be quick because they're right there in Tucson. They're going

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Speaker 1: to respond. How do you get everybody in a room

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Speaker 1: on the same page because this is still your case,

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Speaker 1: you're still lead, but you've asked for help. What said

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Speaker 1: in that room? The men, you get your deputies, your commands,

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Speaker 1: to have your media that you trust in the FBI

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Speaker 1: in the same room.

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Speaker 2: Well, then it becomes, you know, it's a team concept,

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Speaker 2: and then it gets broken up into okay, what can

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Speaker 2: you do? Like all right, for instance, if I'm standing

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Speaker 2: there and it's my case, it's my you know, it's

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Speaker 2: my scene. I'll get the representative from the FBI there

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Speaker 2: go what can you do? What can tell me? What

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Speaker 2: you guys can do, He'll explain everything they got. Okay, cool, great,

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Speaker 2: we need to coordinate A, B and C. It is communication.

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Speaker 2: It is a relationship you now start to build because

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Speaker 2: there's got to be trust there. There's got to be

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Speaker 2: communication there, there's got to be sharing of information there.

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Speaker 2: There's no this is my ball. I'm going to play

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Speaker 2: with it and be the hero. Okay. Egos have to

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Speaker 2: get thrown in a drawer if you want a successful case.

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Speaker 2: And I've worked cases on both ends. When you have

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Speaker 2: the egos and then you have everyone working as a team.

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Speaker 2: And if I'm running this, everyone's going to work as

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Speaker 2: a team. Or you're not going to be part of it,

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Speaker 2: I'll find someone else to do it. And that's got

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Speaker 2: to be the attitude of everyone going out there, because,

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Speaker 2: like I said, the fear with all her medical problems

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Speaker 2: becomes paramount.

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Speaker 1: How do you handle Savannah Guthrie and her siblings? Because

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have misunderstood what they're watching.

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Speaker 1: They keep saying, why it in the family? Outsearch it?

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Speaker 1: Why haven't they made more videos, why haven't they paid

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Speaker 1: I think they're misreading what's happening. And I'm gonna get

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Speaker 1: to most of that in just a little bit. But

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Speaker 1: right off the bat, you can't ignore who you have

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Speaker 1: in your office or who you're going to meet with

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Speaker 1: at whatever location. So you I know I would if

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Speaker 1: this was my scene, I would assign somebody to her.

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Speaker 1: She would have her own deputy assigned to her that

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Speaker 1: could explain things to her, that could drive her. That's

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Speaker 1: there for security that I could update in code and

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Speaker 1: she could explain, Hey, we're doing this type of search.

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Speaker 1: We're going over here, we're going to gun stores. Now

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Speaker 1: we are going to help you do this video to

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Speaker 1: respond to this person that's written this ransom. How would

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Speaker 1: you in this operation handle Savannah Guthrie.

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Speaker 2: I think what you just laid out is perfect because

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Speaker 2: she's part of the team. There's no one else that

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Speaker 2: can provide information about her mom, her feelings, her medical

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Speaker 2: her background, anything she's done on a daily basis, her

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Speaker 2: schedule like Savannah, So you need her to be comfortable

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Speaker 2: and part of the family. Now, listen, you have to

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Speaker 2: you have to corral her emotion which are going to

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Speaker 2: be all over the place and expected and rightfully so.

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Speaker 2: But she's the source of all the information of this victim,

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Speaker 2: and she has to be in the loop part of this.

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Speaker 2: And I think, like you said, assigning someone to her

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Speaker 2: is a perfect idea because she has to now build

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Speaker 2: a rapport with us with what's getting out there, because

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Speaker 2: not only because it's Savannah. Okay, let's take this to

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Speaker 2: one other extra level, which you'll understand. Now it's not

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Speaker 2: just her mom, now it's Savannah. So now you have

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Speaker 2: to dig into Savannah's back the threats, stalker's stories. She's

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Speaker 2: done feedback, she's gotten about stories. Does NBC have any

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Speaker 2: problems with people not liking their network or A, B

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Speaker 2: and C whatever. So now the extension of just the

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Speaker 2: victim gets bigger into Savannah.

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Speaker 1: Now and in the real world, you and I would

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Speaker 1: have that conversation with Savannah the target, but they couldn't

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Speaker 1: get to her. You got to thank Jodie Foster, right, right,

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Speaker 1: So you have to you can't get to her because

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Speaker 1: of the level of security you can get to her.

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Speaker 2: Mama, mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: That has to be a conversation. I agree, one hundred percent, right.

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Speaker 2: You have to, because it's that's you're not You can't

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Speaker 2: talk to the victim. You know, you can't get any

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Speaker 2: background to the victim, So you have to get who's

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Speaker 2: the closest to her, so that person has to be

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Speaker 2: part of this entire thing.

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Speaker 1: I want to jump forward for everybody, because y'all know

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Speaker 1: this case as well as Tom and I. But here's

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Speaker 1: what I keep hearing over and over and over and over.

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Speaker 1: It's odd, it's unusual, it's strange. I've never seen anything

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Speaker 1: like it. So I'm gonna throw my two cents in

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna let Tom take it. The behavior at

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Speaker 1: the front door on that video is odd. The way

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Speaker 1: he's dressed, the way he spends forty four seconds, the

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Speaker 1: way he doesn't use a rock but uses the flowers,

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Speaker 1: the holster, the backpack being filled. Everything is strange. Does

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Speaker 1: it make sense. It doesn't look like a burglary, doesn't

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Speaker 1: look like a kidnapping, doesn't look like anything we've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Very strange. If you go to the clothing, the holster,

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Speaker 1: of the flowers, the behavior, all you get is odd.

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Speaker 1: You get I've never seen it before. The ransom notes odd,

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Speaker 1: that you don't ransom somebody for three days, that you

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Speaker 1: give two deadlines, that you don't accept the money in returner.

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Speaker 1: Everything is strange. The six million dollars saying she's okay,

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Speaker 1: but scared. None of these things are checking out, none

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Speaker 1: of them. None of them are panning out to be

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Speaker 1: an authentic ransom. Then I go to the family. We

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Speaker 1: don't have missing person posters, we don't have volunteers that

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Speaker 1: have been asked to go out in the desert and search,

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Speaker 1: and Savannah Guthrie could get five thousand people to show up, y'all.

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Speaker 1: The family has not been seen at church or a vigil.

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Speaker 1: They are not doing what we think in our minds

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Speaker 1: they should be doing. So again, it's odd, it's odd,

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Speaker 1: it's strange. We've never seen it before. This is what

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Speaker 1: I think we're seeing this person. And I'm going to

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Speaker 1: say this assailant because she's bleeding. I think they are

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Speaker 1: mentally unwell. I think what we're looking at, quite possibly

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Speaker 1: is Savannah Guthrie is in hiding. You ain't seen her children,

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Speaker 1: you have not seen her husband with her. You have

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Speaker 1: seen her with her phone, putting things on Instagram. She

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Speaker 1: has not been with the sheriff, she has not been

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Speaker 1: with the FBI. She has not been unseen. They are

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Speaker 1: not riding around looking for her. I don't believe this

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Speaker 1: is an actual ransom. I think, no matter what avenue,

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Speaker 1: I go down, I get back to revenge and let

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Speaker 1: me explain revenge to y'all. I don't mean this person

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Speaker 1: even knows Nancy. I don't think they have a connection.

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Speaker 1: I mean revenge in their mind. How dare Savannah not

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Speaker 1: respond to me? How dare miss Nancy not let me

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Speaker 1: weed her garden? They feel slighted in some way that

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Speaker 1: they are going to revenge, Tom, what do you think?

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Speaker 2: Because none and you just laid it out, share none

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Speaker 2: of the other. If you want to put a checklist

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Speaker 2: together of this crime, none of it adds up until

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Speaker 2: you get to a point of a personal nature. Why

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Speaker 2: is this personal? There's got to be a stepping point

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Speaker 2: of the personal part of this and that's what you

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Speaker 2: need to go back for. And that's why you know,

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Speaker 2: like I said before, Savannah's engagement with this is so important.

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Speaker 2: But nothing in this makes sense. Listen, We've dealt with kidnappings.

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Speaker 2: The actions of the guy on the video does not

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Speaker 2: represent the normal kidnapping actions. Kidnappers don't take their time.

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Speaker 2: They don't just wander around a property and try to

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Speaker 2: cover you know, a camera with with weeds. The kidnappers

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Speaker 2: already know there's a camera there and that's the first

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Speaker 2: thing they're going to go and attack and rip off

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Speaker 2: a wall or cover. Not oh wow, there's a camera.

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Speaker 2: None of it is immediate, So it's just it's building

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Speaker 2: up to this whole why thing and the time frame.

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Speaker 2: The personal part that really gets me is if we

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Speaker 2: even even not to the exact numbers of what was

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Speaker 2: given because of the camera, of how long they may

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Speaker 2: have been in that house, takes them take a fraction

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Speaker 2: of that, and that's still as kidnappers. Too long. So

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Speaker 2: there's a conversation going on in that house with the

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Speaker 2: bad guys and Nancy something. There's a conversation going on there.

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Speaker 2: That is the interesting part of this whole thing, because

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Speaker 2: kidnappers do not get into a house if they have

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Speaker 2: a target and sit there for more than three minutes.

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Speaker 2: They just don't.

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Speaker 1: They spit way too much time in that house and

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Speaker 1: turn light zone right.

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Speaker 2: Home invaders are going to get in, tie the victim up,

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Speaker 2: ransack place, get what they already think is in there,

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Speaker 2: and they're gone. That's how home invasions would work. Now,

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Speaker 2: if they think they can get a little more, there

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Speaker 2: may be an extra step with an ATM machine with

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Speaker 2: a bank withdraw with you know, all stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But for the most part, they're there for one specific

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Speaker 2: reason as well. All of this isn't taking place. There's

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Speaker 2: no withdrawals from her bank account, there's you know, the

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Speaker 2: there's no immediacy because they're hanging out. So it's just

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Speaker 2: it's all of that. But all of that can also

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Speaker 2: lead to like you said, I think it's someone they know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's someone that everyone knows, you know, in

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Speaker 2: the family. Whatever may have taken place around that house.

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Speaker 2: But I think they do.

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Speaker 1: And that's part of what I'm trying to point out

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Speaker 1: to people. If you think stalker, some of it makes sense,

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Speaker 1: some of it doesn't. If you think botch burglary, some

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Speaker 1: of it makes sense, some of it doesn't. If you

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Speaker 1: go in there to burglarize, you're not taking her. Men

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Speaker 1: are a to b people. They are not going to

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Speaker 1: complicate their crime. They're not going to make it more difficult.

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Speaker 1: She couldn't hear, she couldn't walk, and now she's bleeding.

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Speaker 1: For what reason was she bleeding? Y'all? It ain't a

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Speaker 1: good one. And I'm telling you at that front door,

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Speaker 1: only when you have the broken flowers. I've heard tons

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Speaker 1: of experts talking about that blood and y'all, I do

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Speaker 1: this for a living. There are four separate patterns at

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Speaker 1: that front door. Four. Yes, there's the drops at the

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Speaker 1: ninety degree angle. Then you have a spray for lack

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Speaker 1: of a better word for y'all to understand what it

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Speaker 1: looks like. It's like if you had you know, cherry

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Speaker 1: kool aid in your mouth and spit as hard as

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Speaker 1: you could like it's going to make tiny droplets. We

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Speaker 1: call that medium to high velocities what you're looking at.

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Speaker 1: Then you have a transfer print a little down below.

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Speaker 1: Then you have what's called a swipe. There's four separate

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Speaker 1: things going on with her right there, and that shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be ignored. So again, if you're talking about a stalker

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Speaker 1: or a burglar or a kidnapper, what's going on at

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Speaker 1: that front door.

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Speaker 2: Right And here's again, here's the other part, which doesn't

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Speaker 2: get talked about a lot, but something you have to

360
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Speaker 2: look into. Who's at the back door, who might be

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Speaker 2: already in that house while that guy's trying to get

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Speaker 2: in the front door. You know, there's a whole host

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Speaker 2: of other questions that are going on with this. You know,

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Speaker 2: do I think he's alone. No, No, I never thought that.

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Speaker 2: I never thought he was by himself, because every crime

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Speaker 2: that you're talking about, that we've talked about for the

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Speaker 2: last you know, a few minutes, is very hard to

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Speaker 2: do by yourself. So I always thought there was someone

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Speaker 2: else involved in this. Now again, and you're looking at

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Speaker 2: one video. We don't know if they have video before that,

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Speaker 2: we don't know. If they have video after that, we

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Speaker 2: don't know. And that's half, you know, the investigative problem

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Speaker 2: with all of us, you know, in some sort of

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Speaker 2: the media role of not knowing what they know. But

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Speaker 2: there's more to this, you know, that back door, and

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Speaker 2: you know we've not even told if anything was missing.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that because one of the biggest issues

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Speaker 1: I have is when the sheriff says there's unknown male

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Speaker 1: DNA but won't tell us what category of DNA. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell y'all straight up. If it was

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Speaker 1: hair or blood, he would have already said it. If

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Speaker 1: it was sweat or salava, he had already say it.

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Speaker 1: My concern is it seminal fluid? Why is he not

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Speaker 1: telling us the origin of that unknown male DNA? Because

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Speaker 1: here's what's critical for me. Tom, I'm not going to

386
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Speaker 1: call you as my lead detective and say I've got

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Speaker 1: unknown male DNA without explaining two things to you, what

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Speaker 1: type of DNA it is and where I found it.

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Speaker 2: First of all, those are the first two questions I'm

390
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: going to ask you anyway, you know, those are the

391
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Speaker 2: first where you where'd you find it? Where was it? Ohways? Here?

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Speaker 2: What is it this? I mean that those are those

393
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Speaker 2: are you know, investigative crime scene one on one questions.

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Speaker 2: And you know, listen, I said, the beginning stages of

395
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Speaker 2: this when it came to the press conferences was a

396
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Speaker 2: circus and a disaster because of just how it was

397
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Speaker 2: done and what's done. But you're so right with with

398
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Speaker 2: the process of this is so key into where what

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Speaker 2: it was is an enormous part of.

400
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Speaker 1: This it is and keeping it from the public, y'all.

401
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: When Tom talked about communication, when you don't have it,

402
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Speaker 1: that's when people get paranoid. People have conspiracy theories. You

403
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 1: move from oh no, you know she's missing to the

404
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: cartail guider y'all, what are we doing? You know, you've

405
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: got to take the evidence that you have and follow

406
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Speaker 1: that and do not deviate. Of course, I'm telling you.

407
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Speaker 1: Tom would have told me, call the airport, call the border.

408
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Speaker 1: We would have had that conversation. That's what you do.

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Speaker 1: That's one oh one. Make sure nobody's taken her anywhere

410
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Speaker 1: else but from Tucson. You can't ignore geography. So obviously

411
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Speaker 1: that would have been a conversation. But then logic is

412
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Speaker 1: going to come into play. Why why are they taking

413
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Speaker 1: her to Mexico? She ain't being sex traffic. The cartel

414
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: did not come get Nancy Guthrie y'all. In order for

415
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Speaker 1: the cartail to come get you, they are going to

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Speaker 1: make an example. In order for you to be an example,

417
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: they got to take credit. They got to let you

418
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Speaker 1: show up dance somewhere. Well, that hadn't happened. It's most

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Speaker 1: likely not the cartel.

420
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Speaker 2: No, they want see listen. Part of the cartel's aura

421
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: is being intimidating. They want people to know what they're doing,

422
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Speaker 2: especially if they breach the United States and get into

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Speaker 2: the country and start an operation. They are going to

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Speaker 2: brag about that till no end. Look what we were

425
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Speaker 2: able to do. We able to walk into your country.

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Speaker 2: We took someone who's a kind of high priority target,

427
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: and we took her back with no one knowing. That

428
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: would be all over the place. And the other thing

429
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: that's important here, Cheryl, is if the cartel did this,

430
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: before they even drove a mile away from that area,

431
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 2: they'd be on the phone with NBC. This is what

432
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: we got, this is what we want, and he's how

433
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: we're going to do It. Would have been within an

434
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: hour of having her, NBC would.

435
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: Have got the court. I want you to explain this, Tom.

436
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: This is a wagon wheel. You've got the gun, You've

437
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: got the holster, you've got the blood, you've got the

438
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: unknown mail DNA. You've got this helicopter that's got a

439
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: sniffer that we've never heard of. You've got the FBI

440
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: doing searches. You've got the FBI doing warrants. You've got

441
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: people being detained. This is an active and ongoing investigation.

442
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: But Tom, talk about how those spokes work.

443
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're going to have you know, when you have

444
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: a like we used to have in the city, I'm

445
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: going to refer to the city because it's a point

446
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: of reference. We had a jock set up Joint Operations Command,

447
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: and in that command, you're going to have have every

448
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 2: group or every agency or department that's represented there, whether

449
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 2: it's ten guys, two twenty whatever, each person, each group

450
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: is going to be tasked to do something. So all right,

451
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: you five guys are doing LPRs. You five guys are

452
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: doing videos in the area. You ten people are knocking

453
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: on every single door that you can in that area.

454
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: You know, you four are doing threat streams. You know.

455
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: So it's all broken up. But here's the best part

456
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: about when you have something like that, Cheryl. When they're done,

457
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: it goes to one group, one person, one group, and

458
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: all the information gets Okay, we got this, we got this, Now,

459
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: we got this. Hey, we just found this out. Let's

460
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: go with this. Then you have another entire team doing

461
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: just leads and getting phone calls, you know, to sift through.

462
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: So that's how the spokes like you said, perfectly work.

463
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: When you have an investigation like this, it's an enormous tasking,

464
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: but if it's done the right way, it's kind of

465
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: a controlled chaos. It looks a mess, but everyone knows

466
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: exactly what they're doing exactly right.

467
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 1: So let's talk about part of my job as a

468
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: crime scene investigator, y'all, that scene belongs to me, the

469
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: chief of police, the sheriff, the lead detective, a major,

470
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: a captain. Nobody can dictate what happens to that scene.

471
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: It's mine. With that said, I have some concerns that

472
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: that scene was released way too soon. We are taught

473
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: you get one shot. Can you go back? Yes, even

474
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: on cold cases. Can you go back and find evidence? Yes,

475
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: that ain't what you want, though you want to get

476
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: it the first time.

477
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 2: Just because you're able to do it doesn't mean you

478
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: should do it.

479
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: Oh say that again.

480
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: To speakcause you're able to do it doesn't mean you

481
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: should be doing it.

482
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: It's a bad look, Yeah.

483
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: It is. It's horrible. And again, here's my other part

484
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: of this, Cheryl and I mentioned this too, what's the rush?

485
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: What is the rush?

486
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: Right? No one's living there. You're not, you know, putting

487
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 2: somebody out of living in their home. No one's there.

488
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: So to wrap it up and put a either yellow tape,

489
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: a rope, whatever you want, and find the two rookies

490
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: in that department. Sorry, that's rookie life. You're sitting in

491
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: a car for these twelve hours. You're sitting in a

492
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: car for these twelve hours until we figure all this out.

493
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: That's it, right, And listen part of my job is

494
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: to protect Tom and the department and the case. If

495
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: Tom comes to me and says, hey, have you checked

496
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: that sewer. If the answer is no, I hadn't checked

497
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: that yet, I'm gonna go get a tent. You hear me,

498
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: You are not going to see me with a twelve

499
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: foot stick digging around in some sewer to see whether

500
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 1: or not I can feel a body. I'm gonna tell

501
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: y'all again, she's got grandchildren and children watching this thing.

502
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: She also has an assailant watching this thing. So number one,

503
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, the assailant's laughing because I look ridiculous.

504
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 1: If I'm right, you have grandchildren that have just been

505
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: given a death notification and that's not fair. Get a tent.

506
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: Don't put that on Tom. Where Now Tom has to

507
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: go in front of the media and say, well, we

508
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, we checked digging around down there and we

509
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: didn't find her.

510
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: No, you're right, and again that's the here here. We're

511
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: going to go back again because it's so important. Coordination, communication,

512
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: that's why this is important. And leads are going to

513
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: come in. Listen, leads come in. They had thirty thousand,

514
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 2: you know, in a couple of days. You know, those

515
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: leads consist of everything you can think of from listen.

516
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: There's a lot of smart people out there who aren't

517
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: professional law enforcement officers, who have a great investigative mind.

518
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: There's people calling that tip like going, hey, I had

519
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: an idea. Do you guys look at this, And they're

520
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: going to go, oh, damn, no, it didn't Okay. If

521
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: the scene is secure, it's easy to get back to.

522
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: When you have the guy cleaning the pool of an

523
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: empty house, what are you doing? Like? Why why is

524
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: someone sitting there making the decision that that is necessary?

525
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: I know that blew my mind.

526
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: I almost several times during this thing have almost thrown

527
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: my phone because I just I can't look at it

528
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: and what I'm seeing is so asen on that I can't.

529
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: I have a sister sharing, and I will tell y'all

530
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: she is one of the best people I've ever met.

531
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: She is an extraordinary human being. So I was just

532
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: over it when I saw that, and she said to me, well,

533
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: now you know it could be that Savannah and her

534
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: sister said, when Mama comes home, we want the pool,

535
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: we want everything perfect. I love the way her heart works,

536
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: but in this world, in the crime scene world, in

537
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: an investigation world, that it's not what should happen in

538
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: any way. No shot anybody's coming on that scene at

539
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: all for these three weeks. And you know, Tom again,

540
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: I know people, they want the best, they're praying for

541
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: the best. They believe. Even the sheriff keeps saying he

542
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: believes she's still alive. But y'all, in this situation, my job,

543
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: Tom's job is worst case scenario. So if Tom and

544
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: I have a woman with a pacemaker and she can't walk,

545
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: she doesn't have her here an aid, and she's on

546
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: blood in her and I know she's bleeding, I'm working

547
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: this as a homicide. I'm working it as a homicide.

548
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: I'm not working it as she wandered off and she'll

549
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: be back in an hour. I'm not working it as

550
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: though she had a head injury and got disoriented. I'm

551
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: not working it as well. You know, maybe she went

552
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: to a neighbor's house and she had a head injury

553
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: and she's just laying down. That ain't what I'm doing.

554
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: I am working somebody came in, got her, killed her.

555
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: Drugger out of here until I know otherwise, Because if

556
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: I work it that way. I'm not going to miss

557
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: the broken flowers, y'all. They're broken. They're not just laying there,

558
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: they're snapped in two. There's blood there. We have a

559
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: situation that is die period. And I want to go

560
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: to the tips real quick, Tom, because when you say

561
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: call the FBI, let me tell you something they're great at.

562
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: They can give you an eight hundred number that's just

563
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: for your case, and they can put agents on those

564
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 1: phones to funnel all these calls that are coming in.

565
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: So when you Payma County, and I'm gonna talk directly

566
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: to you for a minute, put your tack. Put the

567
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: person that's over your dispatch on TV Big at Dallas

568
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: and tells the general public, don't call us unless it's viable, credible,

569
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: and actionable. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

570
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: And I don't know another word because my central chavern,

571
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: who I've already told you is a great person, told

572
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: me I can't cuss on TV or the podcast, so

573
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: that limits what I can say to y'all. So I'm

574
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: just telling you it ain't your job, America, to verify anything,

575
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: to understand whether or not it's credible, or understand whether

576
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: or not. Law enforcement can take action. That's their job.

577
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: Call them, for the love of all that is good.

578
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: Call them, because you've got a shriff sitting there telling

579
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: you we have no idea where she is, who took her,

580
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: what state she's in, how she's doing that medically. He

581
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw something, if you heard something,

582
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: If you thought you heard a scream but wasn't sure,

583
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: but it was at one forty seven because you looked

584
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: at the clock, call them and tell them. If you

585
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 1: saw a car, but everybody keeps talking about her van,

586
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: but you saw a jeep, call them. Call them, it's

587
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: their job. Tom, Please help me.

588
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 2: No, and the general public, first of all, is not

589
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: going to know what's viable or a good lead. They're

590
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 2: not going to know that. They have no idea about that.

591
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: Well they can do is report what they saw. Then

592
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 2: it's up to them to make it viable. Like you

593
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 2: just said, but that was just asked, and I you

594
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: know you're asking here. Here's what drives me nuts When

595
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 2: when I see stuff like this and you mentioned throw

596
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: on your phone, I just put my hands in my head.

597
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: You know, when I see things like this, because you're

598
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: you're asking the public for help, and then not asking

599
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 2: the public for help. You can't you can't help.

600
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: You mean like I'm not going to give any more interviews.

601
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: Here's my latest.

602
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: Interview, right, but we need your help. It none of

603
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: it makes sense, Listen, there's a way. And part of

604
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: this is by no fault of anybody, but part of

605
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: it is when you have smaller departments that don't do

606
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: this and don't have a PR team, but don't have

607
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: a information sharing mechanism in their department, you know, like

608
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: the bigger ones. Do you get things like this? You know,

609
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: when the NYPD, LAPD, you know, run meet cases. You

610
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: see how press conferences go. You can update the public

611
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: into what they need to know to help the case

612
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: without giving information about the investigation.

613
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: That's right.

614
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: It's actually not difficult. It's really not. It's not it's

615
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: forming questions and statements the right way to gear it

616
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: towards that neighborhood mom, that grocery store owner, that electrician

617
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: who might have been up on a pole that morning,

618
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: not to give up. Yeah, well this blood was found

619
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: with this blood type in this room at this time.

620
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: You don't need to tell them that they don't care

621
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: about that.

622
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: You mean, like unknown male DNA when you're not going

623
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 1: to tell them the origin, don't mention it, don't mention

624
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: that you have unknown mail DNA. They but they don't

625
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: need to know it yet. And here's another hint. The

626
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: assailant doesn't need to know it. Don't tell them you're

627
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: getting closer. And then, because once you do that, what

628
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: did they have to do? The FBI comes out and

629
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: they have a written statement. And in that written statement

630
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: they said, we've got preliminary results. Now, Tom, you know

631
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: good and well. In our world, preliminary results are like

632
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: a home pregnancy test. You already know the answer. You

633
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: can finish with the lab, you can go to the doctor,

634
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: you can get confirmation, but you already know that. And

635
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: then the shriff comes out and says, well, it wasn't

636
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: a match where we're square one. That should not happen.

637
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: Ever, absolutely not, absolutely not. And that's what I mean about.

638
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 2: There's things you talk about. Listen, let's go. Let's go

639
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: to the simplest term that the FBI always use, and

640
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 2: I worked with them for seventeen years. Need to know,

641
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: very simple. There's things people need to know. If they

642
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 2: don't need to know it, don't open your mouth.

643
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: That's right, that's all.

644
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: It's simple. It's really it's so simple.

645
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: And let's talk about optics. It's not just the stick

646
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: in the sewer. Let's talk about the basketball game, because

647
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: that keeps being brought up. And y'all, I'm just going

648
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: to tell you, I'll play both sides. I know he's exhausted.

649
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: I know it is overwhelming. I know that this is

650
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: going to be the biggest case because he's at the

651
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: end of his career. This is the biggest one he's

652
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: ever going to have, and this will be his swansong.

653
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: Did this crazy person tell him to go to the game?

654
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Was it pre planned? I don't know.

655
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: Is it something that he had a nephew playing. I

656
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 1: don't know. Is this something he did every single home game?

657
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. Here's the problem. We don't know, but

658
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: we know how it looks. So again, if Tom calls

659
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: me and goes, man, my wife is so crazy. She

660
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: keeps accusing me at having an affair. She knows I

661
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: go to the gym every morning. I'm not meeting some

662
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: one for coffee. But then he tells me, but you know,

663
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: I've got this friend from high school. We are going

664
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: to meet today for lunch.

665
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: Tom right right.

666
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: The optics are bad, brother, Don't go to lunch. Don't

667
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: be seen alone with a woman. If she's upset about

668
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: it or she's accusing you of something, You've got to

669
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: show where that's not what's going on. Come to the

670
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: gym with me, FaceTime me while I'm on the treadmill.

671
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: There's things you can do. But again, the optics of

672
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: him being at that game. I openly said, if I

673
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: was Savannah Guthrie, I'd be in jail.

674
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: I would have been that would have been a problem

675
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: if that was me in your role. It's all again,

676
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: it's decisions that aren't difficult. That's what blows my mind

677
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 2: the most. You know, I'm you know, I'm pretty simple.

678
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 2: But you have to every once in a while take

679
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 2: a breath and take a step back and go, okay,

680
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 2: maybe not, maybe not. You know, I me do this

681
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 2: every third at seven o'clock for the last twelve years.

682
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: But when you're in the middle of something like this, no,

683
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: you're not doing it. You're just not doing it. And

684
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: for the inner circle to not grab him by the

685
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: you know, his collar. Oh honey, you know you're not

686
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: going boss, No.

687
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: Preach, preach, preach. Let me tell y'all something. If you're

688
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: a young detective or you're a rookie, if you don't

689
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: hear another thing I say today, you better get some

690
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: friends because they won't let you do it. They will

691
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: pull your collar, they will explain to you. Let me

692
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: tell you how this is going to look and your

693
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: career at the end of your career is going to

694
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: become a meme. It's so pitiful, it's so bad. But

695
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: that's why I tell you you've got to have those friends.

696
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: And this is why Zone seven is so important. They

697
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: will tell you the truth. They will tell you, Hey man,

698
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 1: I'm cheering for you, but you've got to do these

699
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: three things immediately. To call this person, this organization right now,

700
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: you know. And it seems like either he's not getting

701
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: the right information or he's not accepting it. And I'm

702
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: just gonna say this, and I'm not talking about this

703
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: sheriff at all. I'm not talking about him. I am

704
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: talking in general. You cannot be arrogant and stupid. You

705
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: got to pick one, because if you are both, it's

706
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: going to be a disaster.

707
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: We're going to use one word, Cheryl to tell this

708
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 2: story of what we've been talking about the past couple

709
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: of minutes. Leadership, that's all it is. It's strong leadership.

710
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 2: When you're a leader and you're out there dictating what's

711
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 2: going on, you get more respect. People work harder for you.

712
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: The bad guys fear you, because now the bad guys

713
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: watch TV going, oh damn, what's he know? What did

714
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: they know? Right now? They're looking at this. It's a circus.

715
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: If you have bad guys who are involved in this

716
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 2: watching TV, they're, like you said, they're laughing. Whereas if

717
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: you have straight up guys women who project leadership of listen,

718
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: my man, and talk directly to the camera. It may

719
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: take a little while, but we're gonna get you. Make

720
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 2: no mistake about that. You know right now things are

721
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: what they are. But believe me, there's going to be

722
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: a day when you're gonna be in front of me

723
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: and Tom.

724
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: I've said it. Savannah doesn't need to do another video.

725
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: TMZ doesn't need to be sent another bogus fake con

726
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: artist ransom note. There needs to be somebody from that

727
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: department or the FBI that goes on TV and says

728
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: we're done, we will not entertain anymore. Cons swindles coming

729
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: after this family, trying to dupe them into sending you

730
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: bitcoin money. Nothing. We're gonna take that six million dollars

731
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: you want and put it on your head. That needs

732
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: to happen. And this is why y'all doctors don't work

733
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: on their own family. Savannah does not need to be

734
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: the one having to put the videos out, having to

735
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: read statements. She needs to have a law enforcement person

736
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: in her corner that understands what's going on and shuts

737
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: this down. Shut it down, because clearly, in three weeks

738
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: it ain't been about money. I've said from day one,

739
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: it ain't about money. No man is gonna wait three

740
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: days to ransom you. They're not gonna wait for the

741
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: FBI to get in place. They're not gonna tell you, hey,

742
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: give me that money by Thursday. If I don't get

743
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: it by Thursday, I'm gonna kill her. And if not

744
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: by Thursday, well I'll give you till Monday, but then

745
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: Monday for sure I'm gonna kill her. That ain't how

746
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: this works. That's what we call an empty threat. If

747
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: somebody told me in the jail, hey, I'm gonna you

748
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: know whoop your behind on Thursday and if not thursdayday Monday, baby,

749
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: jump to me right now, because you ain't gonna do

750
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: Jack Deadley. And the reason I know is because that

751
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: ain't a threat. And that's when again Tom would come

752
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: correctly and say, let's shut it down. They're being duped.

753
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: Do not put that poor family on video again. But

754
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: I want to ask you one thing, Tom, because again

755
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back around to was this a

756
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: stalker because one of the first things you said was

757
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: has Savannah gotten any threats? Two things real quick. In

758
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: the beginning of this thing, remember she called the Senator. Now,

759
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: I want y'all to hear me. Somebody took my mama.

760
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call everybody in my phone. I think she

761
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: did the right thing. You call the most powerful person

762
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: in your state. I get it. I love it. Number two,

763
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: she said, I'm not going to the Olympics. She made

764
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: the decision day one that she was not going to

765
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: do something six days later. That tells me whatever they

766
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: told her that was inside of that house was significant.

767
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: The fact her mama was missing. She understood. Has she

768
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: received a letter, an email, a phone call? Has there

769
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: been a threat to her? The third thing, and this

770
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: again the totality. Her co workers that were supposed to

771
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: go to the Olympics also did not. That to me

772
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: is critical. Why would this man that's already set to

773
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 1: go to the Olympics also not go? Why would NBC

774
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: increase security when Savannah's not there? That is concerning to me.

775
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: And I'm going to go back to do we have

776
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: a stalker like Hinckley.

777
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 2: You replay listen me and you have done god dozens

778
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: and dozens of interviews over the last twenty two days,

779
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: and that has come up in the beginning of this.

780
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: Like listen, there's a kind of checklist you go down

781
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: when you're doing these cases, and that's at the top

782
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: of the left, at the top the top. Who's pissed

783
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 2: off of you? Who's Maddy? You? Someone is you're in

784
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 2: the media? What has come into NBC or you personally

785
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: or on Instagram or any of these go through everyone.

786
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: I don't care if it's a veiled you know what,

787
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 2: I really hate your guts. That's got to get looked at.

788
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: You know, I don't like what you do on reporting

789
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: about A, B and C that you have to look

790
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 2: at because stalking starts somewhere. That's right, there's a tipping

791
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 2: point and an origin of stalking. And a lot of

792
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: times it's the most subtle nothing burger that begins and

793
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: then becomes this enormous animal. And that's what they have

794
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: to look at when it comes to that.

795
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: And y'all, when I was on Fox Friends, I told

796
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: them she's been taken. That we know, so no matter what,

797
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: if she was taking two inches, that's a kidnapping. I

798
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: don't believe it's a kidnapping for ransom because they're not

799
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: good at it. They have failed spectacularly. If this was

800
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: for money, so that leaves us with revenge, that's it.

801
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: And again revenge in their mind, it's their mission. That

802
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: person at that door, I'm telling you, was mission ready.

803
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: He had whatever tools in his backpack. He had the

804
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: mouth light, he had the mask, he had the gloves,

805
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: he had a weapon. It was all wrong. It looked wrong.

806
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's going to have a weapon right in

807
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: the middle of their waist. They're not going to do

808
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: it that way. It's weird. It's strange. He's weird and strange.

809
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: The only thing Tom and I disagree on I think

810
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: he worked alone, and the reason is this is his revenge.

811
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: If you watch him. The first thing he does, he

812
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: doesn't cover the camera. He makes like the letter see

813
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: with his hand. What is that You're not covering the

814
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: lens of the camera. I think he's a younger person

815
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: because I think he was blocking the infrared, which an

816
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: old person wouldn't even be thinking about. And then he

817
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: tries the doorknob, and then he knocks lights out all

818
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: around the house. So you're hanging out for how long?

819
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: But you've got a man that walks past one hundred

820
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: rocks to pick up flowers and to pull them weird

821
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 1: and to break them, and then to try to look

822
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: past them. You still ain't hiding yourself. It's the strangest

823
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen, and I cannot get away from

824
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: revenge and crazy and y'all. That is why this case

825
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: is so difficult, because there is no connection. They don't

826
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: know each other, and all of his behavior is so

827
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: odd it doesn't fit with anything we've ever seen. Going

828
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: to track him down the normal way. He has enough

829
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: intelligence to understand possibly the computer, the way the cameras work,

830
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: et cetera. But where is he What has he done

831
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: with her? We don't know because it doesn't make sense now,

832
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: Tom I'm gonna give you the last word so you

833
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: can explain to us why you think it's two people

834
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: and more importantly, what do we do going forward? Because

835
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: I've already said my page, everybody's already heard it, but

836
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: I'll say it again. They got to get on the

837
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: same page. I would not want to see another press

838
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: conference or press release that the three of them are

839
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 1: not a unit, a team, a cohesive force moving together.

840
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 1: And that's the family, the FBI and the Sheriff's Department.

841
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: Tom Smith take it away.

842
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the best part about Like everyone

843
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 2: right now is going to see and hear how things

844
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: should work. Mac just lead out her opinion about what

845
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: she thinks. Opinions are great when it comes to investigations

846
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 2: because too many investigations and investigators stay in that box

847
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: and they get drawn in that box and they're afraid

848
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: to step outside that box and start thinking about some things.

849
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: Where Mac just laid out her vision of it, and

850
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: I can, you know, not even disagree. I wouldn't even

851
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: use that word like, okay, cool, here's what I think,

852
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 2: and then teammates get together and work all that out

853
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 2: of Okay, that makes sense, Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Yeah,

854
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 2: you're right about that, but what about this. So the

855
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: only reason, here's my only reason of thinking it's more

856
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: than one person, because of what it takes to get

857
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 2: someone out of an area alone. If Nancy is in

858
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: any way shaken up mentally challenge which she is physically

859
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: challenged on mentally, I'm sorry, with the amount of distance

860
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: she can walk, Getting one person to get one person

861
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: in a vehicle is very difficult, is very hard to

862
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 2: do because the dead weight of someone is hard to maneuver.

863
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: I mean, look at we teach kids twelve thirteen, younger

864
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: kids too, if anyone comes near you drop to the

865
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 2: ground because it's hard to even get a twelve year

866
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 2: old up off the ground that doesn't want to much

867
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 2: less than eighty four year old woman. So that's it.

868
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 2: That's kind of the only reason and the only stance

869
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: I have with more than one person thing. There's no

870
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 2: other really evidence to support what I'm saying. You know that,

871
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: I know that anyone else doesn't know. It's just looking

872
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,959
Speaker 2: at it as at a bigger picture of a quote

873
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 2: unquote kidnapping, and that's all that is. But the best

874
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: part about what Mac and I just did is what

875
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: they should be doing. Just what do you got? What

876
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 2: you got? What do you got? And then you put

877
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: it all together and try to come up with a

878
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: common you know, theory, what I'd like to see, don

879
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 2: mac Here's one thing we've done. We used to do

880
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 2: a lot in the taskforce when we had a really

881
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 2: large case. You bring in a what we call clean team,

882
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: which is a group of people, group of investigators who

883
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 2: have nothing to do with this case. They haven't looked

884
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 2: at a piece of paper, they haven't looked at a report,

885
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 2: they haven't spoken to anyone in that area, and you

886
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: bring them in to get a new set of eyes

887
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: and a new set of ideas and a new set

888
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 2: of theories going in this case. Because once you start

889
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 2: looking at the same thing over and over and over again,

890
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: your thoughts can get clouded, Oh, we already looked at that.

891
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,959
Speaker 2: We already looked at that, Whereas if someone new looks

892
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 2: at it goes, yeah, you did, but what about this

893
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 2: because you miss that because you've been looking staring at

894
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 2: it for twenty some days. So clean teams, I think,

895
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 2: would be something really good to put out. The other

896
00:54:54,840 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 2: thing that baffles my mind, Sheryl, is with the technology

897
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: do we have today? Why hasn't there been a color

898
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 2: video enhanced and put out there, and they just stick

899
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 2: to this grainy black and white, nondescript, really hard to

900
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: determine things. Video make it. Color. Color brings out things,

901
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 2: color brings out eye color, lip color, the you know,

902
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 2: your sneaker laces, whatever it might be that might stand

903
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: out to people. And I, for the life of me,

904
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 2: don't understand why that hasn't been done. So that's I

905
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: would love to see done. And that's you know about it.

906
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 2: I mean, this is one of those cases that you

907
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 2: never want harm to be in someone, but when it

908
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: starts going down this road, you're like, man, I'd love

909
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: to be involved in this. You know, give me, give

910
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: me an hour, you know, give me, give me two days,

911
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: you know, in this room with all this information, see

912
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 2: what I can find. And I know me and you

913
00:55:58,440 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: have said that numerous times to each other.

914
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean you want to go. You want to

915
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: like you say, take our own clean team, let us

916
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,479
Speaker 1: help you. And you know, you know they're overwhelmed, y'all.

917
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: They still have a jail to run, they still have homicides,

918
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: they're working, they still have runaway young people. I mean,

919
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: they've got things they've still got to be doing every day.

920
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: But at the same time, this is going to take

921
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: priority and you need help and you need to be

922
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: able to accept it and take it.

923
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do. And listen, we've been in those rooms.

924
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 2: You know. We both run large cases. You start. You

925
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:47,240
Speaker 2: may not know anything about Nancy Guthrie, Savannah NBC whatever.

926
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 2: When you work on something this long, it becomes personal.

927
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 2: And now see the thing with me and I got

928
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: in trouble for my partners, you know, and Dan too,

929
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: you can understand about this.

930
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: Well at you I already know because you wouldn't take

931
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: a break.

932
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 2: Yep, right exactly one. I used to get yelled at

933
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 2: by my partners, by by Dan, by Carlos, like Tom,

934
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 2: we need to eat. We haven't eaten in it like

935
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 2: a day and a half. And I'm like, oh, yeah, okay,

936
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 2: because it becomes personal. Because my biggest factor when it

937
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 2: came to cases like this was the bad guy sitting

938
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: on a couch laughing at me. That was the vision

939
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: I had. And I guarantee you the reason I'm saying

940
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 2: that is those detectives and agents are feeling the same way.

941
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know, my son was a college athlete, and

942
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: he would often say on the days he didn't feel

943
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: like going to two a day's or going back to

944
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: the gym, he would always in his head, what is

945
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: my opponent doing? Yes, yes, yes, and yes that's your opponent.

946
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean you got to get up, you got to fight.

947
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand y'all want to go and have

948
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: lunch and relax them in it and talk about it.

949
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: But you do feel like we're wasting time. However, I

950
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: know what those meals are. The mills are just another

951
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: task force mating. That's all it is, right, So you're

952
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: not really stopping No, not at all. Tom. If you

953
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: could get the sheriff on the phone, what would you

954
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: tell him today?

955
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: Put some stuff out there, have the listen. Here's the thing,

956
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: and this is why I say this. Someone knows him.

957
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: Somebody out there knows who did this. You have to

958
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: get to that person. And the only way to get

959
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 2: to that person is to help them along with the information.

960
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 2: Not give up particulars about the investigation. But what can

961
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 2: the public know that's going to assist them? And you know, Cheryl,

962
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 2: without us even being there, there's a mounted of evidence

963
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 2: that could be put out there m h. There's a

964
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 2: mountain of I don't say evidence, information that could be

965
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 2: put out there to help people along this line, you know,

966
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 2: the enhancement of the video, a better timeline, a direction

967
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: of flight, whatever it might be. What would the what

968
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 2: were the interviews that were conducted? Don't get particulars about it.

969
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 2: What was said in those interviews of the three operations

970
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 2: that took place? You held someone for hours? What were

971
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 2: you talking about? What did you If someone's not involved

972
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 2: in something, you know pretty quick if they're not, you know,

973
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: you you can use your investigative deductive reasoning with the information.

974
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 2: You know, talking to someone. You're talking to someone for

975
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 2: eight hours, something's up. Something's up? What is that? You know?

976
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 2: So I would just be you know, you got to

977
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: be more. You got to be a leader. You got

978
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 2: to be a leader in this and you got to

979
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: show that you're the leader of this investigation. And the

980
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: more you don't, the more this is going to get

981
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 2: out of control.

982
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: Y'all. It's been three weeks. We pray for the gun

983
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 1: Stry family, We pray for law enforcement, We pray for answers.

984
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,439
Speaker 1: Tom Smith, retired NYPD, thank you so so much,