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Speaker 1: for today's podcast also comes from Helix. It's been about

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Speaker 1: slash Therapy for Black Girls. Just go to Helix Sleep

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Speaker 1: Now let's get into the show. Welcome to the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health,

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Speaker 1: personal development, and all the small decisions we can make

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Speaker 1: to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: For more information or to find a therapist in your area,

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Speaker 1: visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com.

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Speaker 1: While I hope you love listening to and learning from

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Speaker 1: the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute

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Speaker 1: for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session one sixty

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Speaker 1: nine of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. We know

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Speaker 1: that our experiences of sexuality are as varied as we are,

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Speaker 1: and wanted to spend some time today digging into what

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Speaker 1: it means to affirm your identity as a queer person.

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Speaker 1: For this conversation, I was joined by Michelle Williams. Michelle

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Speaker 1: is a Fellow's avir Right, earning her bachelor's in psychology

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Speaker 1: as Zavia University of a Look, Indiana and her Masters

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Speaker 1: and Counseling Psychology at the Chicago School of Professional Psychology.

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Speaker 1: She's a licensed professional counselor in Washington, d C. She

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Speaker 1: has had experience serving and settings such as the prison system,

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Speaker 1: public and charter elementary and middle schools, and universities, all

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Speaker 1: before founding Therapy to a T, where she combined trauma

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Speaker 1: informed care, mindfulness, and advocacy for those that have marginalized identities.

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Speaker 1: She's passionate about making mental health services safe and accessible

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Speaker 1: to individuals and couples within the lgbt Q plus and

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Speaker 1: disabled community, and has launched a therapy fund to help

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Speaker 1: subsidize the cost of care and supporting resources for clients

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Speaker 1: interested in receiving services. At her practice, she also co

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Speaker 1: facilitates the Healing Circle, a trauma informed grief group that

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Speaker 1: promotes healing via mind, body communication, mindfulness, and community building.

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Speaker 1: Michelle and I chatted about what it looks like to

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Speaker 1: explore your sexuality, some of the challenges queer Black women

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Speaker 1: experience in relationships, and how to find or cultivate spaces

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Speaker 1: that are affirming of your identity. If there's something that

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Speaker 1: resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with

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Speaker 1: us on social media using the hashtag TBG in session.

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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today, Michelle,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited, always happy

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Speaker 1: to have a fellow Xavier right with us in the

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Speaker 1: guest chair. So I'm excited you're here. Yes, So can

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Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about your practice, Michelle,

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Speaker 1: So you specialize in working with queer individuals and couples.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit how you got

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Speaker 1: into that. Yes. What really catapulted me into this practice

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Speaker 1: was I was working in diversity and inclusion at a

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Speaker 1: university in and I was an advisor of some of

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Speaker 1: the student organizations. Their needs were overlapping, but they weren't

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Speaker 1: able to access like mental health care in a way

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Speaker 1: that was like accessible, and that was going to help

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Speaker 1: them navigate their graduate programs, and I was like, what

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Speaker 1: a niche. So I was like, well, maybe I should

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Speaker 1: go into, you know, working at a university setting. But

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be limited to the university setting

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Speaker 1: just because of funding and things like that. I really

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Speaker 1: was kind of over the whole higher ed setting. And

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Speaker 1: so my therapist actually encouraged me to open my own

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Speaker 1: practice and I was floored, like, wow, you think I

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Speaker 1: don't want practice? So I started marketing to initially graduate

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Speaker 1: students who had like a queer identity, who were individuals

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Speaker 1: and couples, and it just grew from there, like, they

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Speaker 1: give me the referrals, and it's been really fruitful so far. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it sounds very needed, and I love that that. It

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Speaker 1: is how a lot of successful practices kind of start, right,

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Speaker 1: is that you see the need and then you work

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Speaker 1: to try to feel it. So a question that often

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Speaker 1: comes up in our community is people who are kind

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Speaker 1: of questioning their sexual identity or gender identity and not

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Speaker 1: being sure like where do you even start? So we

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Speaker 1: know that we don't always get a lot of information

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Speaker 1: about this from school or from loved ones, and so

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Speaker 1: people I think are often very confused about like how

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Speaker 1: do I even know? So, do you have some suggestions

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Speaker 1: about how you might even start that conversation with yourself? Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's actually a really good question. So for people who

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Speaker 1: might be questioning or even questioning, if they're questioning, I

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Speaker 1: would encourage them to examine their like close intimate connections

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Speaker 1: that they already have and also the ones that they're

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Speaker 1: yearning for. A lot of people find themselves like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I just really want to be in the company of

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Speaker 1: this type of person or I'm yearning for this type

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Speaker 1: of connection, but they feel limited on like how to

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Speaker 1: pursue that or what it might mean for them. So

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Speaker 1: I would encourage them to think about, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: what kind of communities are you craving, what kind of

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Speaker 1: connections are you craving? And if you feel any personal

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Speaker 1: judgment around yourself around that, that might be a really

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Speaker 1: great place to start, Like when might you know that

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Speaker 1: working with a therapist to help you explore this might

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Speaker 1: be helpful if you are like questioning, like if your

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Speaker 1: identity or your sexuality and it's distrusting to you, or

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Speaker 1: you feel like you don't have anyone to process this way,

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Speaker 1: or you don't know where to start or you've had

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Speaker 1: experiences you want to go about it in the like,

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Speaker 1: I guess, like the safest way or the most productive way.

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Speaker 1: I would encourage them to reach out to a therapist

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Speaker 1: just so they can kind of get to know, like

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Speaker 1: what are their needs, where are they trying to accomplish,

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Speaker 1: what relationships do they already have that might be safe

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Speaker 1: or unsafe, so that they can practice navigating their identity

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Speaker 1: in places that's going to be encouraging them forward. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate that you share the spectrum of why you might

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Speaker 1: reach out for a therapist, right because again, I think

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Speaker 1: a common misconception is that you only go to a

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Speaker 1: therapist in crisis. But I appreciate you that you share

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Speaker 1: that if you don't feel like you have other people

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Speaker 1: in your life that you can talk about this with,

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Speaker 1: a therapist might be a good place to start. YEA.

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Speaker 1: So how might you identify a therapist who is going

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Speaker 1: to be a good fit for you, especially to talk

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Speaker 1: about some queer issues. Yes, So, actually, as I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about this, I realized that my clients really taught

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Speaker 1: me how to find how what type of questions to ask,

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Speaker 1: And so the first is just to look for a

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Speaker 1: therapist that like outwardly names that they are queer firming

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Speaker 1: in their bios or their website. That's a really great

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Speaker 1: place to start. But in that initial phone conversation, if

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Speaker 1: they do offer like a free phone concertation or like

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Speaker 1: a free first visit, so really ax them about their

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Speaker 1: politics and their frameworks. You know, have they treated anybody

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Speaker 1: who has a queer identity before, Like what's their mindset

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Speaker 1: or approach towards pharing for queer people? If they have,

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Speaker 1: if they employ anybody that's queer, do they have any

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Speaker 1: queer identities? Those are like some great places to start.

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Speaker 1: And then also what really might help move the conversation

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Speaker 1: a little bit further is asking the perspective therapist, like

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Speaker 1: if they're trauma informed, because a lot of the trauma

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Speaker 1: informed theories and modalities really helped set the therapist for

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Speaker 1: success to be able to care for somebody who does

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Speaker 1: have a queer identity. Can you say a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about what trauma informed means? Yes, So, trauma informed

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Speaker 1: care really lends itself to the way you engage with

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Speaker 1: a person. It really takes away from like demonizing any

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Speaker 1: part of you, any thought of you, any experience of you.

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Speaker 1: It really is an integrative whole body in my experience

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Speaker 1: and approach to therapy, And so it kind of has

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Speaker 1: the framework where anything that we could have experienced could

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Speaker 1: be trauma doesn't have to be anything big. And like,

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Speaker 1: how do we use language, tone, the relationship, the setting

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Speaker 1: to care for the person as a whole. Got it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And I want to go back a little bit because

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Speaker 1: something you mentioned about like wanting to make sure that

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Speaker 1: the therapist is queer affirmative, right, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: that is only recently has the field really moves towards

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Speaker 1: the language that stresses affirmative as opposed to supportive or tolerant,

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Speaker 1: because we know that that is not enough, right, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: the supportive and the tolerant. It really kind of stops

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Speaker 1: right when you are a queer affirming. What it means

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Speaker 1: is that you have taken the time to invest in

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Speaker 1: that community, learn about the language that's specific to that community,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be supportive, that's going to encourage them

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Speaker 1: and empower them, that's specific to them. So it's really

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Speaker 1: important that the queer affirming part is really uh kind

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Speaker 1: of like named and in the front. Mm hmmmmm. Got it.

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Speaker 1: So something else that comes up quite often for members

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Speaker 1: of our community is reconciling faith and religious practices with

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Speaker 1: a queer identity. And so that seems to be a

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Speaker 1: place where a lot of people are struggling. Can talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about, you know, maybe how you've worked

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Speaker 1: with clients or some things for people to kind of

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Speaker 1: keep in mind if that is something they're struggling with. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is a really big one. So with people who

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Speaker 1: are navigating their faith and their identity, sometimes they stray

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Speaker 1: away from their faith or they feel like both of

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Speaker 1: them can't exist in the same place, and so I

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Speaker 1: would encourage them to really examine who they are and

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Speaker 1: what their connection is to their faith practice. And again,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be so important to have safe people

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Speaker 1: around them, people who they can ask questions and explore with,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of the barrier is not even feeling

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Speaker 1: comfortable even exploring these questions that they may have. And

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Speaker 1: so there are actually some therapists, which I think is

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Speaker 1: a huge beautiful niche that are faith based, like trained,

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Speaker 1: specialized and also queer firming, so that they can have

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Speaker 1: really in depth discussions about like faith, maybe texts, maybe literature.

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Speaker 1: But if they are navigating that particular question. I would

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Speaker 1: encourage them to read, to find safe people that they

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Speaker 1: can ask these questions with, and to engage in their

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Speaker 1: identity in a way that is curious but also really compassionate,

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Speaker 1: and to focus their relationship with like their higher power

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Speaker 1: so that they can take, you know, I guess, like

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Speaker 1: glean from the practice what's helpful and not harmful for them,

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Speaker 1: so that they can move forward in a way that

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Speaker 1: might feel a little bit more meaningful. Mm hmmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I have also been encouraged to see now I

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Speaker 1: know that this doesn't exist on a huge scale, but

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Speaker 1: I have been encouraged to see either new faith practices

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Speaker 1: being developed or like separate congregations being developed, so that

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Speaker 1: the space already feels affirming, right, so that you don't

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Speaker 1: even have to question, like am I gonna be looked

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Speaker 1: at weird here? Or is this gonna be a space

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Speaker 1: where people are gonna demonize me and who I love? Yes,

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of like ministers or religious leaders

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Speaker 1: that are decolonizing the faith that they are working within.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's amazing because it really is

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Speaker 1: a decolonization around like the religion and how it may

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Speaker 1: be against or speak down on queer identities and sexuality.

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Speaker 1: M yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. Do you know of

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Speaker 1: any resources off hand, like for people who might be

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Speaker 1: looking for like different congregations like that. Do you know

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Speaker 1: of any like centralized resource. Oh, my goodness, not a

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Speaker 1: centralized resource. But just this weekend I started a healing

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Speaker 1: circle for grief. One of the members is a de

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Speaker 1: colonized minister, and so actually I've jumped at the chance

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Speaker 1: to grab their information so that I could share it.

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Speaker 1: But I'll definitely send you the resource so the community

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Speaker 1: can have it available to them. Oh. Perfect, We'll include

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Speaker 1: that in the show notes. Then after we wrap up. Perfect. So,

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Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about some of the

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Speaker 1: maybe relationship dynamics that may be specific to queer relationships

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Speaker 1: that you work with in your practice. Yes. So, one

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Speaker 1: of the relationship dynamics that is pretty prevalent and challenging

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Speaker 1: to navigate is the heteronormativity. It's everywhere, It's in the movies,

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Speaker 1: it's in songs, and so when people are in queer relationships,

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Speaker 1: and I want to clarify, like a queer relationship can

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Speaker 1: be defined as anything that does not fall within like

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Speaker 1: the hetero normative expectation. So it's a really really broad

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Speaker 1: way to describe the relationships. But anything that's not heteronormative,

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Speaker 1: like male female, straight monogamous, it can be defined as

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Speaker 1: a queer relationship. After that, the hetero normativity is a

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Speaker 1: barrier in the relationship sometimes because it is you know,

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Speaker 1: how do we show up? What's our role? How do

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Speaker 1: I find meaning? You know, what do I think my

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Speaker 1: worth is in this relationship? How do I show up

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Speaker 1: to society? What do I think I need to do

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Speaker 1: versus what I need to do or what I want

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Speaker 1: to do in this relationship. That's a really really big one.

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Speaker 1: It's just like how do we share the gender roles?

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Speaker 1: And if they do a spouse to us, how do

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Speaker 1: we reconcile them without feeling like we are buying into

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Speaker 1: some type of patriarchal system. Yeah, and I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that that is so difficult. I mean because so much

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Speaker 1: of what we like see in TV and reading news

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Speaker 1: and those kinds of things is heteronormative, right, And so

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Speaker 1: if that's the only model you have about what a

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Speaker 1: relationship looks like, then it may be really difficult to

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Speaker 1: figure out, Like, well, how can I deconstruct that and

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Speaker 1: make my own idea of what a relationship is, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean down to like, you know, how are we

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Speaker 1: splitting up the bills? How are we caring for that household?

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Speaker 1: You know, like who's treating for dinner? And you know,

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Speaker 1: like what are these conversations look like? Who should be

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Speaker 1: leading in certain types of activities? All of those things

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Speaker 1: that I guess are seemingly innocuous, which I really would

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Speaker 1: encourage people who are in sins hetero normative relationships to consider.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, what do these different roles

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Speaker 1: mean to me? And how do I want to show up? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That sounds like something for everybody to explore. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I'm also curious, and again this has come up

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Speaker 1: all out in the community, is how do you deal

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Speaker 1: with the relationship if you are maybe in a relationship

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Speaker 1: or interested in a partner who might not be out, Like,

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Speaker 1: how do you navigate that? Yeah? So that's a really, really,

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Speaker 1: really good question when you are even thinking about answering

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Speaker 1: in a relationship and this person may or may not

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Speaker 1: be out. You know, as we know, people may not

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Speaker 1: be out for a lot of different reasons, and namely

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Speaker 1: most of those are safety and so we really have

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Speaker 1: to be having open and honest and transparent conversations around

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Speaker 1: like do we have a game plan for how do

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Speaker 1: we access safety? What does being out mean for me?

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Speaker 1: What would my partner coming out? What would that mean

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Speaker 1: for us? And like how does that How do I

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Speaker 1: get to show up in the world if you're not out,

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Speaker 1: Like having those explicit conversations and being able to hold

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Speaker 1: space for your partner if they're not out but they

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Speaker 1: have a plan or they want to be out in

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Speaker 1: safety is a barrier. And then being honest about your limitations,

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Speaker 1: like if you want to be like out and open

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Speaker 1: and on so media and doing these outward facing things,

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Speaker 1: but your partner is not ready to yet, you have

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Speaker 1: to be honest about like what your limits are and

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Speaker 1: what your needs are. And maybe you all may not

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Speaker 1: be a good fit at that moment, or maybe it

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Speaker 1: is a matter of okay, Like how do I navigate

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Speaker 1: my personal needs for the greater needs of this relationship

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Speaker 1: if it means that my partner is going to be saved?

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, And I think backing up a little bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, we already talked briefly about like how do

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Speaker 1: you even begin to explore queer identity. But even after,

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Speaker 1: like there is the exploration phase if you do decide

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Speaker 1: to come out, what is that process even, like and

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Speaker 1: we know sometimes people are out in certain circumstances and

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Speaker 1: not in others. So what are some of the things

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Speaker 1: to even think about if you're thinking about having to

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Speaker 1: come out? Yeah, so the coming out process is often continual,

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Speaker 1: and I think that that's something important to highlight. So,

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Speaker 1: like you may come out to your friends, but if

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Speaker 1: you have a new set of friends or old friends,

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Speaker 1: work friends, you have to consistently like come out to

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Speaker 1: these people that you're meeting. If it's family and people

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Speaker 1: maybe are like distant family members or maybe they're not accepting,

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Speaker 1: then it's like the process of them coming to face

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Speaker 1: to face with your identity is a new coming out

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Speaker 1: process all over again. So just to think about that

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Speaker 1: that it's an ongoing process. You you're kind of like

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Speaker 1: constantly coming out and that's kind of you know, that's

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Speaker 1: exhausting for some people, that's daunt think for some people.

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Speaker 1: And so when you think about that, like what the

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Speaker 1: coming out processes of just naming like hey I'm queer,

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Speaker 1: or hey I'm Leslie and I'm bisexual, I'm paying sexual,

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Speaker 1: I'm trans, whatever those things are that you are experiencing,

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Speaker 1: you gotta think about, like what do I know about

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Speaker 1: this person who I'm trying to share this with or

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Speaker 1: who I want to share this with? What do I

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Speaker 1: know about their ideals or values? Again, this comes back

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Speaker 1: to safety, And I say safety a lot, but it

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Speaker 1: comes back to like how has this person handled like

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Speaker 1: personal matters before? And also I would say, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you don't want to, I don't think you necessarily

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Speaker 1: like have to write like I think it's amount a

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Speaker 1: matter of privilege because that's the very personal pieces. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And even as you're talking, Michelle, I'm thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: because even this idea of like having to come out right, like,

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Speaker 1: we don't have that expectation for since hetero normative people, right,

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Speaker 1: and so there you just show up at the company

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Speaker 1: picnic with your partner, right, So there is not this

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Speaker 1: this expectation that there's all this work that has to

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Speaker 1: be done. But to your point related to safety, we

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Speaker 1: do know why that can't always be as easy. But

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there is even some conversation around how

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Speaker 1: we can begin to even deconstruct that whole process. Of

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Speaker 1: like having to come out. Yes, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that the conversation. Of course, like people who are like

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Speaker 1: queer and trans, we have to come and face to

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Speaker 1: face with this every single day. But for people who aren't,

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Speaker 1: like the allies, the people who are sins hetero normative

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Speaker 1: and monogamous relationships, how are they creating that space for

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Speaker 1: like us to come in so you know, making sure

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Speaker 1: that they're leading a conversation with like gender pronouns, you know,

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Speaker 1: making sure that they are having inclusive conversations about non

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Speaker 1: federal normative you know, like type of relationships so that

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Speaker 1: the person who is queer doesn't have to be the

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Speaker 1: one to break the ice or test the waters and

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Speaker 1: see if it's safe or not. Mm yeah, So very

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Speaker 1: much like when we are having these conversations around racial justice, right,

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Speaker 1: how we are asking people who want to support us

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Speaker 1: as black people around them having to do some of

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Speaker 1: the work. It's the same expectation for those of us

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Speaker 1: who do not identify as queer. Absolutely, it would be

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Speaker 1: so helpful to just walk into a space and you know,

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Speaker 1: someone comes up and they addressed like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: like this is my name, these are my pronouns, this

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Speaker 1: is the type of relationship I'm in, so that that

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Speaker 1: conversation has already started and it's not so much news

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Speaker 1: when someone else comes up and they're like, hey, this

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Speaker 1: is my name, these are my pronouns. They them and

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Speaker 1: you know this type of relationship I'm in, And that's

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Speaker 1: the first time that we're even having to think about

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Speaker 1: our relationship type. And m m hmmm. Yeah. And something

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Speaker 1: that is such a small gesture I think goes a

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Speaker 1: very long way because it is not putting the burden

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Speaker 1: on the queer person. So something else that again comes

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Speaker 1: up in the community last. So this is why I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad you were able to talk with us today

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Speaker 1: because there have been lots of questions about people who

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Speaker 1: are exploring a queer identity and just not quite sure

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Speaker 1: where to start. So something else that has come up

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Speaker 1: is people may be wanting to like date a same

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Speaker 1: sex person or being open to maybe having an intimate

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Speaker 1: experience with somebody and feeling really nervous and not sure

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Speaker 1: where to start. So what suggestions would you have for that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that well, but right, the dating

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Speaker 1: apps are really a great place to start to build community,

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Speaker 1: get curious and connect with people. And start having those conversations.

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Speaker 1: I think at the dating naps are are fun for

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Speaker 1: that in light of COVID. But I know that once

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Speaker 1: we get through this and past this, there are certain

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Speaker 1: spaces in different cities where you know, like they have

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Speaker 1: like day parties, Like I know in Chicago there's this

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Speaker 1: collective called Party Noir and they have day parties for

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Speaker 1: like queer people, and it's just a really good time

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Speaker 1: for you to just go and just you know, see

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Speaker 1: meet people, look around, see what the scene is like,

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Speaker 1: see if you can make any friends. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: also that's a great place to know that, Okay, the

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Speaker 1: majority of people here are probably queer questioning, so this

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Speaker 1: is a safe space for me to kind of fill

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Speaker 1: it out, maybe even try to flirt or meet somebody,

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Speaker 1: make a new friend. And in the meantime, right before

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Speaker 1: we are able to gather safely, do you know of

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Speaker 1: online communities are resources that are helpful, particularly for queer

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Speaker 1: black women to gather and like do some exploration and

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Speaker 1: be in community with one another. Yes, so I'm not

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Speaker 1: paid by a part now air, but they they have

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Speaker 1: transitioned their platform to a digit the platform and have

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Speaker 1: been having events pretty regularly being room and all these

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Speaker 1: other platforms where they are you know, like building community

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Speaker 1: where you can have conversations and talk about like self

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Speaker 1: care and connect with the community, talk about identities, even

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Speaker 1: do something like dance stuff and just really have a

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Speaker 1: really good time. And they have a lot of events.

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Speaker 1: So that's a really great place, especially if you are

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Speaker 1: a black queer woman. That's a really great place this

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Speaker 1: in the digital space to kind of like you know,

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Speaker 1: like get out there and meet people, find your community

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Speaker 1: and start having those conversations. And then outside of that,

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Speaker 1: what some of my clients and I have really found

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Speaker 1: helpful is following some of the hashtags that queer black

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Speaker 1: women were using like their posts and so there's like

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Speaker 1: this instagram called me and Somebody's queer can And actually

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Speaker 1: that's like a beautiful place to just kind of like one,

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Speaker 1: fill your feet up with affirming images, but also to

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Speaker 1: build community. They often have like questions in their captions

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Speaker 1: that in another page that's called mrs and mrs and

433
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: mars and us and they do the same type of

434
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: thing online. So those are three places that you can

435
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: really get started and start building community around there. Yeah,

436
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, she said, filling your feed with like

437
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: going back to that word affirming, right, because I think

438
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: when you are kind of especially if you're in the

439
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: early stages of exploring and not feeling quite sure, it

440
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: can be really helpful to kind of see people who are,

441
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: you know, affirming their lives and kind of existing in

442
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: the world as who you think that you are as well,

443
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: so that it makes it feel a little bit easier

444
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: for you to kind of step into your truth as well. Yes,

445
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: so that you don't feel isolated or alone. Yeah, And

446
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: I think some of that goes to like really making

447
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: sure that you have to kind of unlearned some of

448
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: the maybe internalized homophobia and stuff that you have picked

449
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: up just because we live in they had a real

450
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: normative world. Like you said, are there some things that

451
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: you think people should be thinking about just in terms

452
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: of un learning some of that. Yes, And that's really

453
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: the biggest part of all of this. A lot of

454
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: us do have like the internalized homophobia, biphobia, transphobia, and

455
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: it's everywhere, and so to begin to start to address that,

456
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: it would be really helpful to just be honest about

457
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: where it is, like where does it exist for us,

458
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: like and really be honest around like, Okay, well this

459
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: is how I feel, this is some of the language

460
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: I've been using. These are some of the people I've

461
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: been hanging around, the kind of conversations I've been having,

462
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: and this is biphobic and naming it without the shame

463
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: and without the judgment, because you know, when you know better,

464
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: you do better. And there we're in a place of

465
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: knowing and having more information. So one just starting to

466
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: be really honest about like, Okay, what parts of me

467
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: or what parts of conversations in my participating in that

468
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: have been influenced by those phobias, And then how can

469
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: I begin to educate myself and surround myself with people

470
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: who are doing the work so that I can be

471
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: constantly learning and replacing that harmful language and those limiting

472
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: beliefs with some that are more they're paying a fuller picture,

473
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: that are more clues to better safer, so that we

474
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: can one just like start with us, but also like

475
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: educate others, check ourselves and become more open to those opportunities,

476
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 1: because a lot of barriers to even pursuing your identity

477
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: or your sexuality is that internalized phobias and how we feel,

478
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: how we may have judged or dismissed someone else for

479
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: the same identity. Then now we find ourselves exploring or

480
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: being curious about and feeling like we might not have

481
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: even the right to explore it because of those ideas

482
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: that we previously had. Mm hmmm. Yeah. And is there

483
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: any one place in particular that you feel like a

484
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: lots of people get stuck when they're trying to unlearn

485
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: some of this. Yes, I think that a lot of

486
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: people get stuck at the biphobia m m M. Can

487
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: you say more about that? Yeah, So, and this is

488
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: for people who are like federal normative, and also people

489
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: who are like maybe just lesbians are just gay, Like,

490
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: the bi phobia is a place that people really get

491
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: stuck because there's so much negative stigma about what it

492
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: means for someone to be bisexual. M And there's just

493
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: so much, just so many harmful narratives about promiscuity and

494
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: decisiveness and selfishness that it is, and it's still to

495
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: this day, even while information is still so pervasive, that

496
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: it's hard for people to like shed those ideas and

497
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: beliefs around people who might identify bisexual. And so a

498
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: lot of people don't they don't even name it because

499
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: they don't want to have to defend themselves and that,

500
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: you know, like defend that part of their sexuality. And

501
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: some people are scared to explore their sexuality excuse me,

502
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: or their identity because of how biphobia is really just

503
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: like pervasive. I think that that's a really big one.

504
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: M m m mmm. So any suggestions for somebody who

505
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: might find themselves there. Yeah, So when you think about

506
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 1: the bi phobia, along with the other phobias, but especially

507
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: the biphobia, really think about like what where did this

508
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: come from? Like getting curious about like where did this

509
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,239
Speaker 1: information come from? And how have I engaged with it,

510
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: maybe even passively or actively and really putting yourself in

511
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: those shoes. So if I was bisexual, what would this

512
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: mean for me? Like would this be true? Am I proriscuous? Like, No,

513
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: I'm not promiscuous? Maybe I just have like an interest

514
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: or an attraction in different ways, And of course there's

515
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways that you can even be

516
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: attracted to somebody. So really just for once, you know,

517
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: putting yourself in the shoe of those people and really

518
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: think about like, Okay, these are the negative stigmas that

519
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: have been attached to this, But where is this coming from?

520
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: How harmful has it been? And would it be true

521
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: for me if I was standing right there in those shoes.

522
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 1: That's a really helpful place to start. And I do

523
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: think that once people start to explore, or even be

524
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: open to exploring their identity, they'll realize like, oh, I

525
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: really just mothered this these group of people, when if

526
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: it was me, I would want to be nuanced if

527
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: I am promiscuous or and I really hate the word promiscuous,

528
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, but if I am out here doing whatever

529
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing and being really sexually liberated, then would that

530
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: make me so bad? Like? Why do I think that

531
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 1: this is such a bad label? And who am I

532
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: hanging around that's informing this or reinforcing this label? Mm

533
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: hmmm yeah. And I think when you get to the

534
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: bottom of all of those questions that you've encourage people

535
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: to be curious about, so much of it is just

536
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: what society has told us is the right way quote

537
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: unquote yes, yes, I think like another question to really

538
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: ask yourself is do I think that this is true

539
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: for one group of people and not true for another

540
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: group of people? Right? So, like a common misconception is

541
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: that like men can't be bisexual and it's so harmful

542
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: because I can't man be bisexual? Why can't men be

543
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: curious about their identities and you know, and about their sexuality.

544
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: It's it's so limiting for that area that I really,

545
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: I really encourage people to this really question, like, you know,

546
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: why do I think that? What? What have I learned?

547
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: Where did I get this information from? And how come?

548
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: It's so easy for me to accept that this group

549
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: of people can explore their sexual qality and get to

550
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: know for certain and other people cannot. So we talked

551
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier. Michelle is just about you know,

552
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: like how do you even learn what a relationship looks

553
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: like if you don't have any models for it? And

554
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: so I'm curious to hear from you if you feel

555
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: like there are any portrayals in like modern media that

556
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: do a good job of like representing queer people and

557
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: queer relationships. Oh my goodness, that's a good one. So

558
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: I attentionally seek out this type of content, which is

559
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: kind of difficult to find. Yeah, but there is a

560
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: show on Netflix called Black Mirror, and they have this

561
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: episode it's called Saying Junior peril, I think, and they

562
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: portray like a queer relationship and that was a really

563
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: interesting one. It was an interracial one, but that was

564
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: a really interesting one. I think like YouTube series have

565
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: a lot of great examples on like just different stories

566
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: being told on like queer people just having regular relationships

567
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: and it's not really centered around their queerness, but it's

568
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: just a centered around them being humans and also being queer.

569
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: And so YouTube had a lot of different series, like

570
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: Between Women TV was a really good one. And then

571
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: I just watched Tinder. Oh my goodness, it was so good.

572
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: I wish it was an hour. I know, right, What

573
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: did you find so affirming about Tinder? I just thought

574
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: it was so intimate. I thought it was so intimate

575
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: because it wasn't really like sexual lives, even though that's okay, yeah,

576
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: were about like the connection. And I think that they

577
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: did a really good job at just portraying like, Okay,

578
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: I'm internally processed and you can see my wheels turn it,

579
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: but I'm not really expressing everything. I'm still trying to

580
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: figure out what just happened? What am I doing here?

581
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: Just having to be really curious with each other and

582
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: encourage each other. It was easy for them to encourage

583
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: each other before they kind of took that into their own,

584
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: like how they were navigating their different ages in life.

585
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: M h yeah, And I feel like it was like

586
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: a balance of them kind of exploring like a queer

587
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: relationship or at least a queer interaction and just like

588
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: queer people living their lives, yes, like the navigated career

589
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: in dreams and stability and you know, like past betrayals

590
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: and all those things you know, are super relatable. And

591
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 1: then they were able to just really find like comfort

592
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: and connection with each other. And I thought that was

593
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: just so beautiful. Yea. So did you get a chance

594
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: to watch The L Word? You know? I never I

595
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: have only seen this and pieces of the L where

596
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: I'm so late to the L word, like it's so

597
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: many seasons, but a lot of my friends who are

598
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: like queer and who are lesbians recommend that I watch it,

599
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: and I just have been like this in piece in

600
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: the series, some of the clips that I've seen that

601
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: really helped me understand, like this, the intimacy, especially as

602
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: we talk about like queer relationships and women, is the

603
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: friendship aspect of like how intimate and close to friendships

604
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: can be and how that can be even a gateway

605
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: to like women feel uncomfortable about exploring their sexuality because

606
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: they've already had a strong level of intimate see established

607
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: with the woman they know they can have it. And

608
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: I thought that that was really important in all of

609
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: the shows that I mentioned or I'm curious about, I

610
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: know that there has been like a component of all

611
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: of them. M So do you think that that's necessary

612
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: or is that like a hallmark maybe of queer relationships,

613
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: like this intimacy that maybe looks different than like hetero

614
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: Norman relationships. I do think the intimacy looks different in

615
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: queer relationships. As people have described it. There is a

616
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: level of openness and safety that a lot of people

617
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: have been able to establish in queer relationships. I'm not

618
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: sure what that common threat is. If it is, like,

619
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, we have to be this intimate because this

620
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: part of our identity is very vulnerable and it's often

621
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: attacked or intolerant in other places in the world. I'm

622
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: not really sure, but I have noticed that across my

623
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: practice and my experiences the shows I've watched, the intimacy

624
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: is it's so high, it's it's such a high level

625
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: of intimacy, like emotional intimacy, intellectual intimacy, like really just

626
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: and curious about, like how do I define intimacy? Yeah? Yeah,

627
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: and I wonder too if it is because you don't

628
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: have these like ideas about who you're supposed to be

629
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: in relationship based on the media and stuff. It allows

630
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: you to be different, right, which maybe opens up a

631
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: different level of vulnerability that doesn't exist in non queer relationships. Yeah,

632
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: and that's what brings me back to friendship, because you

633
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: know what, your friendships. If you are fortunate and blessed

634
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: enough to have like a really really really really close friend,

635
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: then you get to be like you and you guys

636
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: are closed and maybe not even a lot of things

637
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: in common, but you have enough that you can share

638
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: openly and freely. And that's a really important aspect of

639
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: all relationships, but in the queer relationships especially, it's important

640
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: to have those types of connections. So something else that

641
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: has come up, and we've already talked about the importance

642
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: of you know, having queer farming spaces and getting a

643
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: support system to be curious about some of these things,

644
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: But something that has come up is what happens when

645
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: you maybe start dating within your queer support system and

646
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: then maybe there's a breakup or things get a little weird.

647
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: What kinds of suggestions do you maybe have for navigating that. Yes,

648
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: one of the things that I would this is for

649
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: people who haven't yet had to navigate this, but who might.

650
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: Being very candid about what the outcomes could look like

651
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: and having that conversation in the beginning will be so helpful, right, like, Okay,

652
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: what if this doesn't work out? What does that mean

653
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: for us? How important is our friendship? How do we

654
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: prioritize it? What does it mean for the other people

655
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: in our friend group? And havn't that be an ongoing

656
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: conversation because as time progresses, our feelings towards that could change,

657
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: and we want to be able to allow space for that.

658
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: But for the people who are currently navigating that, or

659
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: have navigated that, and they have dated within the friend group,

660
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: or somebody dated within the friend group and Nail maybe

661
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: there's a breakup or maybe there's friction, I would encourage

662
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: them to connect with people within the French group that

663
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: are safe, you know, to be able to like process

664
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: how they interpret it, what happened and then if it's

665
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: a matter of safety, then of course I want them

666
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: to prioritize their safety, but to really be able to

667
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: prioritize like what what really happened? Why did this end?

668
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: And is it something that could be solvageable so that

669
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: we can keep in community or at least be cordial,

670
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: and then stating your boundaries with the remaining friend group

671
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: around which your expectations are, and see if that's something

672
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: that they can adhere to or honor. M M. Yeah.

673
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: And it feels like that maybe a little different than

674
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: what happens in you know, non queer like breakups, right,

675
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: I mean, because that is my specialty is work on

676
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: people have to breakups. And usually it's like, Okay, you

677
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: gotta find a new support group and that kind of thing.

678
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: But in these kinds of circumstances where we know it

679
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: can be really difficult to find support, it sounds like

680
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: there may need to be some additional conversations about like

681
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: how can we work through this? Yes, you know, I'm

682
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 1: sitting here and I really wish that I could say,

683
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: like find a different group of right, but it's so

684
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: difficult yea to even find you know, like quote a

685
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: quote like your people, especially because you can't just look

686
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: at somebody and just be like, oh, like you're queer

687
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: and they could be a friend of mine and so

688
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, that's just like my soapbox that I just

689
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 1: hopped on. But with navigating those friendships, just really being

690
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: clear about like, am I honoring my boundaries by staying

691
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: within this particular aspect of our community. H I love that.

692
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: I think that would be something we kind of continue

693
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 1: to explore Baby in the community or in future episodes,

694
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: because I think there is something there. Yeah. Yeah, So

695
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Michelle if there are any other resources. So

696
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: you've already given us some great ideas for communities people

697
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: might be interested in getting involved with, but are there

698
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: other like books or podcasts or things that you think

699
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: would be really helpful for people to connect with. Honestly,

700
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: one of my favorite books that I think helps open

701
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: people up to the conversation is Pleasure Activism by Adrian

702
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: Mury Brown. Just to be able to to interact with

703
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: women and films that are queer and that shares spacebook,

704
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: queer people and trans people. That book really just prioritizes

705
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: pleasure and I do think that being able to connect

706
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: with pleasure in a different way helps us really be

707
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 1: a lot more open to any identity that we might have.

708
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: And then the books that I found really helpful to

709
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: help my clients are not around sexuality, but they're more

710
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: about like shame and and so there's a book called

711
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: The Gift of Imperfection. Yes, yes, yes, those two books

712
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: have really been helpful to just kind of like examine

713
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: shame and what that might mean for us. This book

714
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: might feel random. But there's this book called The Woman

715
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: Who Run with Wolves? Oh? Yes, have you finished that one? Yes?

716
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: I have tried to get into it like twice, and

717
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: for some reason I just cannot. I feel like I

718
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: need to try again because I have heard such great

719
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: things about it, but I have not been able to

720
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: really get into it for some reason. Yes, And you

721
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: know the reason why I was able to even get

722
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: into it is because I did it in a book club.

723
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: I get it in a book club, so we broke

724
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: it up into chunks and we're able to like talk

725
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: through it. It wasn't difficult for me to do it

726
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: the first time. So maybe that's the key. So what

727
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: do you love about that one in particular? Um, just

728
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,959
Speaker 1: examining the different archetypes that might like that make that

729
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: that contribute to our identity. I think that is really

730
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: important to just get curious around, like you know, you

731
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: don't have to fit into again, kind of like deconstructing

732
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 1: the binaries, like what do we think feminine even means?

733
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: What do we think womanhood even means? And she has

734
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: these stories like this collection of like poems in there

735
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: um and short stories that really help you understand like, oh,

736
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: this is how this type of archetype or this type

737
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: of personality type might like show up cannot connect with it,

738
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: and like how do I even hide behind some of

739
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: these identities that might hold valuable I thought was so fascinating,

740
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: especially when she talked about how important creativity is in

741
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: our self care and our well being. M hm dope, Like, Okay,

742
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: maybe I will try to arrange a little mini group

743
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: to try to explore some of this stuff. Yes, I

744
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: would read it again, I would. I would. Okay, I

745
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: might be emailing you about that, feeling out my notes

746
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: again because I have a couple more. There is this

747
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: therapist that I follow and they have this blog called

748
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: Queering Psychology. Oh yeah, and it is so good. I

749
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: think that that would be a really helpful resource for

750
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: anybody that's like wanting wanting to learn more, that's wanting

751
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: to connect with your identity more Like they really go

752
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: into how to like decolonize, like our thoughts and our

753
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: approach to this. The language is so affirmative, the tone

754
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: just feels really really compassionate. Called queerying psychology. And where

755
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: can we find you online? Michelle? What is your website

756
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: it as well as any social media handles you want

757
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: to share? Yes, so my website is Therapy to a

758
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: T dot com. And you can find me on Instagram

759
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: at Queer Black Therapists, and you can find me at

760
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls. Perfect. Well, Thank you so much, Michelle.

761
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you sharing with us today. Thank you.

762
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: I love talking to you. During the course of my

763
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: conversation with Michelle, a few themes kept coming up, but

764
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: particularly the ways in which media helps to shape our

765
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: models of relationships and the importance of seeking out queer

766
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: media and affirming images to assist in exploring identity and relationships.

767
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: It felt like the perfect way to round out this

768
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: conversation was by bringing in someone who has been intentional

769
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: in creating these types of affirming images. So I'm pleased

770
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: to have Felicia Pride join us to chat about her

771
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: new short film, Tender. Felicia is a ball some More

772
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: native and a film and TV writer and director. She

773
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: was a writer for two seasons on Ava Duvernaise Queen Sugar,

774
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: and has sold a drama pilot book adaptation to NBC's

775
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: Universal Cable Productions. She sold the feature Deeper to Universal

776
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: Pictures and is the co writer and executive producer of

777
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: the film Really Love, produced by Macro, which won a

778
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: special jewelry prize at south By Southwest. Felicia was a

779
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: Film Independent Screenwriting Lab Fellow and a graduate of NBC's

780
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 1: Writers on the Verge program as a comedy writer. Prior

781
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: to she worked as a film distribution executive and an

782
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: impact producer, and is the author of six books, including

783
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: The Message one hundred Life Lessons from Hip Hop's Greatest Songs.

784
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: Felicia holds an m A and writing from Emerson College

785
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: and runs the Create Daily, a resource for underrepresent the

786
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: storytellers that she found it in twenty twelve. Here's our conversation.

787
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us today, Felicia,

788
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Yes, I am a longtime fan,

789
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 1: so I am very excited that we'll have a chance

790
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: to chat today about your first short film. Well, I'm

791
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: not sure is it your first? This is my first

792
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: that I directed, Yes, that you directed, Okay, Tinder. So

793
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: for those of you who have not had a chance

794
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: to watch Tender, definitely check it out when we are

795
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: done with this conversation. But I want to hear Felicia,

796
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: what was your inspiration behind Tender? Yeah? I mean it

797
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: was twofold. I am primarily a writer, and directing was

798
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: all the ways something that seemed out of reach for me.

799
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: But then I learned quickly long in the business that

800
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: film is a director's medium, and I realized that I

801
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: had stories that I wanted to tell that I really

802
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: needed to be a part of the vision from start

803
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: to finish. Like, for instance, I'm working on a story

804
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: now that's inspired by my mother, my sister, my niece,

805
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: for three generations of black women, and I'm like, I

806
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: the director, Like who else is going to direct that?

807
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: So I had to get my directing skills up, took

808
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of classes, and then I was like you

809
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: know what, I'm ready to kind of get my feet

810
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: wet but in order to do that, I wanted to

811
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: do it with a story that was simple in terms

812
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: of like two actors, one location, one day, but also impactful.

813
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: And I also wanted the film to really represent the

814
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: things that I'm interested in exploring. And so, interestingly enough,

815
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: with Tender, two of the characters, Keiana Lulu come from

816
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: a pilot, a longer piece that I've written, and I

817
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: just fell in love with those characters, mainly because a

818
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: lot of me is in them. And so I wanted

819
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: to explore Black women's sexuality and desire. I wanted to

820
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: explore desire from professional means, the things that we desire professionally,

821
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: the things that we desire personally. I wanted to show

822
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: shades of sexuality that we don't see enough on screen.

823
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to show our queerness, our our our passion,

824
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: but also our vulnerability and our scars, and and then

825
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: do it in fifteen minutes. So, like these two characters,

826
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: I felt like I had a dynamic that I could

827
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: be able to explore a lot with a little mm hmmm,

828
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: so much of what you're talking about. It sounds like

829
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: such a big test to take on to do in

830
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. Yeah, I mean, but luckily, you know, when

831
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: the whole package comes together. I think the great thing

832
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: that I love about filmmaking is how collaborative it is.

833
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: So when you have amazing actors Pharrell Walker and Trishanna Clark,

834
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: you have amazing cinematographer Ludovica is a Dory, and you

835
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: have amazing crew, and the package comes together, the music

836
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: that was provided by Asha Sante and Boom Scat, when

837
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: it all comes together, it just I think the layers help, right,

838
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: So you have a very sort of simple story to

839
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: women who have a one night stand in the morning after,

840
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: But then when you add all the layers on top

841
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: of it, the performances, the cinematography, the music, productions and

842
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: all that, I think that's when you have something that

843
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: can be really lush. So I I thought it was

844
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: interesting that so much of the story takes place the

845
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: morning after. Can you tell me what was significant about

846
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: having it be set then? Yeah, I mean, I was

847
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: definitely interested in the idea of emotional intimacy, right, so

848
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: what does that look like, especially after you've had physical intimacy?

849
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: And I imagine that like it was on and popping

850
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: and between Kiana and Lilo, like the night before the

851
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: one night stand. I think it was hot and like

852
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, on and popping, but I was really really

853
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: interested in the idea of emotional intimacy between two black women.

854
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: And I think it's also because it's aspirational. Like number one,

855
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 1: I've never had a one night stand that the next

856
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: morning it's beautiful and we have this beautiful day that

857
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: we spent another So I think it was aspirational for me,

858
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: but also just to show the ways that black women

859
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: can be vulnerable with each other, the ways that we

860
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: can share an intimacy that I think it's hard to

861
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: find between other groups of people, at least for me.

862
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: I just I feel like I can be my most

863
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: vulnerable with black women, and I wanted to show that

864
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: on screen. I felt. I also found it interesting that

865
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: a part of what you did was allowed us to

866
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: explore something. So I don't quite remember, if you say it,

867
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: what age the characters were, but I assume that they

868
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: are maybe early thirties, and so the idea that you know,

869
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: society kind of tells us we should have all of

870
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: this stuff figured out by the time we're like early thirties,

871
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: but clearly there's this exploration that these characters are sharing

872
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: later in life. Yeah. And and also actually I've had

873
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: a little bit of an age difference between them, you know.

874
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: One of the things I was interested in and someone

875
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: picked this up that it. She asked me, is this

876
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: a conversation between you and your younger self? And I

877
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, Like, I think that there's something interesting

878
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: between you know, a woman who we have Keana, who's

879
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 1: an older character who just had this sort of very

880
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 1: very extensive surgery that has impacted her. She's very stable,

881
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: maybe also like sexually in a rut, you know what

882
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: I mean, but has a certain level of confidence. And

883
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: then you have Lulu who's younger, who has all this

884
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: energy and light, queer out and proud, very confident in

885
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 1: her sexuality, but not confident in other areas of her life.

886
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: And how can they pour into each other? How can

887
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 1: they learn from each other? Yeah, So I think that

888
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: had a lot to do with it, and also just

889
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: looking at my younger self and my older self and

890
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: the things that I can still get from each of them.

891
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: M hmmm. So what is it that you hope that

892
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: people leave feeling after they watched Tender? That's a good question.

893
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. If it's about feeling. I do know

894
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: that I want more of us to tell our stories.

895
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: I think because we weren't going to release Tender online

896
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: when we did, but because of the pandemic, it just

897
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: felt right. And so the reception to the film has

898
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: been amazing, and just like see reception and the field

899
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: reception in real time, I've never really had that with

900
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: my work. And what it showed me too is that woe.

901
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: Like we know theoretically that we need more Black women stories.

902
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: We need more and all types of Black women right,

903
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 1: queer black women, oh to black women, younger black women,

904
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: different levels of ability. But this project really showed me

905
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: that we really really made that. I just hope that

906
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: it continues to encourage those of us with stories inside

907
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: of us who maybe been holding back telling ourselves reasons

908
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: why we can. I told myself for many years I

909
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: couldn't direct and getting past that and telling these stories

910
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: because we need more stories about our vulnerability. We need

911
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 1: more stories about our pain, more stories about our joy

912
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: from our lens and from our perspective. Because this is

913
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: just one story, this is my perspective, This is one slice,

914
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: but there's so many more that need to be told.

915
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: I I completely agree. Do you have any suggestions for

916
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: people who are not quite sure where to even store it,

917
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: like to start telling their story? Yeah, I mean, I

918
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: think there's a range of because there's so many ways

919
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: that we can be storytellers, you know, whether we do

920
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: it through you know, writing, whether we do it through visual,

921
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: whether we do it through or like find art. I

922
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: think it's like finding a medium that works for you

923
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: in this moment, because you can always expand mediums. Finding

924
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: a medium that works and also that may be accessible

925
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 1: and quick, Like I'm all about what's the quickest way

926
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: to get something Now. It might be on your Instagram

927
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: where you're telling stories, you know, But I think that

928
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: finding a medium and doing it, I think the challenge

929
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: often is that we just don't take that step, and

930
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: that's fear. And I think that's where therapy comes in.

931
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: I am a huge proponent of therapy. I found my

932
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: therapist on therapy for Black girls because sometimes it's blocks

933
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: that we have that we have to work through and

934
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: and also ideas that we need to hide and shrink ourselves.

935
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: But one thing my therapist told me is that when

936
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: you hide, you deny your brilliant to the world. And

937
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us are doing just that,

938
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: but the world needs are brilliant Me. No, I would

939
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: say whatever it takes to get started, and even if

940
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: it's not in a public form, maybe it's just you

941
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: in a diary, you taping thoughts and ideas on your

942
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: phone and sharing it with the small group of people,

943
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: but just taking a step. And I know it sounds

944
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: like cliche, but literally that's kind of what it is. Yeah,

945
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: what kind of work did you feel like you had

946
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: to do personally just in preparation to give this to

947
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: the world? Who I had? Interesting enough, I had to

948
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: do self worth work because again I had I had

949
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: all these narratives in my head about what I couldn't do,

950
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: and that was a combination of you know, what the

951
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: world has told us what we can't do, and how

952
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: I internalized that. And I also had to work through

953
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: the idea that being scared of what people think. But

954
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: working through that is big because and that's always from

955
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: an artists. I mean, it is very very vulnerable state

956
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: to be in to release art to the world. So

957
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: that's something I think I'll just have to continue working through.

958
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: And then also I think what helped with like the

959
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: quote unquote like imposter syndrome um or I can't be

960
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: a director. Was taking classes and learning what the director

961
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: does and trying it out and going through that process.

962
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: The practicality of that was very very helpful. Yeah, and

963
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 1: then I and I also just surrounded myself with black women.

964
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: My producer, Regina Halls was just like, we don't set

965
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: a date for you to shoot this, and I was

966
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: like wow, but she was right. So also having people

967
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: accountability partners in that way who kind of push you

968
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: and challenge you so m so you share that you

969
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: feel like that we need just all kinds more black

970
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: women's stories. I'm curious if you have any suggestions for

971
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: non queer creators who maybe want to expand the narratives

972
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,479
Speaker 1: but include queer characters. Yeah. I mean, I think I've

973
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: had like fears around that because I don't identify as

974
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: queer of is this a story I should be telling

975
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: for me? It is my story in a lot of ways,

976
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: So that's where the permission I've given myself to do that.

977
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: But I also think then it's it's it's talking with

978
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: those who you want to center and actually centering them.

979
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean, because I think sometimes

980
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: when we want to center characters who are not us,

981
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: we actually end up centering ourselves. So being really clear

982
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: about those distinctions and centering them in your collaborative process.

983
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: So that's something that I'm looking to do, because I'm

984
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: going to be expanding Tender into a feature is really

985
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: making sure that, however far I take the narrative, that

986
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: I'm including the voices and the collaboration of queer black women.

987
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: So I think that's important. Have you seen other good

988
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,919
Speaker 1: examples or things that you have really enjoyed in terms

989
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: of queer representation in media. Yeah, I mean, well, mm hmm.

990
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: I think we're seeing a lot more queer representation. I

991
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: think there's definitely space for more. One documentary that I've

992
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: recently watched that I thought was really really eye opening

993
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 1: and that was informative was Disclosure about you know, just

994
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: trans representation in media and entertainment. I thought that was

995
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: really really eye opening and important and also shows that

996
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: we need more trans people telling their stories, and we

997
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: need more trans people who are centered, and then also

998
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: when we are writing trans stories, that we need to

999
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: be collaborative with trans people. So that was really really

1000
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: eye opening and something that that was really important and

1001
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 1: really well done. Yeah, I found myself really struck by

1002
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: the title of your film, tender, because I don't know

1003
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: that that it's always are often a word we here

1004
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: connected to black women. Can you share just a little

1005
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: bit about like the significance of even the title. Yeah,

1006
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: it's interesting because I'm not good at titles. Number one,

1007
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: so we had a working title called Couci that I

1008
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: actually was gonna go with it, and I was like, Okay,

1009
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 1: it might be too much. But I just remember being like,

1010
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: how to describe what this movie is, how to describe

1011
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: what we're going for in this film, and just working

1012
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: through tons and tons and tons and tons of titles

1013
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: with my home girl, and then I remember and our

1014
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 1: producer and I just remember coming across Tender, and I

1015
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: was just like, you know, I think titles sometimes it's

1016
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: one of those things where when you finally come across it,

1017
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: you're like, that's it, that's for one. Uh, and it

1018
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: just it It just I just felt like it captured

1019
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: what we were going for, you know. I also wanted

1020
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: to show like our hardness, right, but how we are

1021
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: defenses come down when we feel safe, um, and how

1022
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: our tenderness can come out when we feel safe. So yeah,

1023
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 1: that was that was, Oh, it was. I didn't think

1024
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: we were gonna get it because I remember just like

1025
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 1: coming down to the wires, I wanted to like launch

1026
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: the crowd funding campaign and still didn't have a title,

1027
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: and um, then it just came. It came. Yeah, were

1028
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 1: you worried at all about like some of the stigma

1029
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: really added to One night Stand? I think a lot

1030
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: of times there's a lot of shame around black women's sexuality.

1031
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: There's a lot of exploitation around our sexuality. So I

1032
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: just want to stab agency, you know. And yeah, I

1033
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 1: wanted us to have the agency and that and One

1034
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: night Stand and sort of normalizing that being something that

1035
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: black women can engage in, you know what I mean,

1036
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: because we do, yes, yes, yeah, And I know that

1037
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: you have ideas for expanding. But I also appreciated, at

1038
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: least in this short film version of it, that it

1039
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: really was just them, right, So it wasn't anybody else's opinions.

1040
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: There was no talking to the best friend the next

1041
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: day about what happened, and like it really was just

1042
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: their little world. Yeah, yeah, thank you. So can you

1043
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: give us any ideas or steak in terms of what

1044
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,439
Speaker 1: you're thinking in terms of expansion. I wish I could,

1045
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: because I don't even know. I am circling around this film.

1046
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is the feature? I just know I

1047
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: have to do it, Like it feels like I'm like

1048
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: called to do this, jerk. This was going to be

1049
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: a standalone project. Tender was going to be its own

1050
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: little thing. But just the reception of the project and

1051
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: people like we need to see more, we need to

1052
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: see more, I'm like, Okay, I need to expand it.

1053
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 1: So I'm circling around it. I mean, there are some

1054
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: things from the pilot that I think could be interesting

1055
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 1: for the future, like seeing them in the workplace because

1056
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: they work together, so actually seeing the lead up to

1057
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: the one that I stand, seeing the one night stand,

1058
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: seeing the more. So that's kind of where I'm at

1059
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: right now. But I don't know, it could completely be different.

1060
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm in the writing stage where I'm thinking, I'm not

1061
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: writing nothing. It's just like my head is like, where

1062
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,439
Speaker 1: what is the what is the story? Yeah? And I've

1063
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: heard other writers talk about, you know, like how they

1064
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 1: like will sometimes live with the characters and the characters

1065
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: will just you know, speak to them. And kind of

1066
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: lead you in terms of where the story will go.

1067
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about your process. Yeah,

1068
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm hoping they will talk to me. You know, I

1069
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: definitely have a more I think practical process because Tender

1070
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: doesn't have a deadline and attached to it, right, because

1071
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 1: you know a lot of my work has deadlines attached

1072
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: to it, so I have to kind of systematize it.

1073
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: Because Tedder doesn't have a deadline attached to what even

1074
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: though I have thoughts around when I would love to

1075
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: shoot it, I do have some time to be in

1076
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: my head more and to kind of find the story.

1077
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: And then what I've started is just like what I

1078
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: call a beat sheet is plot points that are really

1079
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: interesting to me. And then I also have like a

1080
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: character sheet, like what what do I want these characters

1081
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: too experience and go through? What do they want that

1082
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: will color what they go through and experience? And what

1083
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: do they need? What do I kind of see as

1084
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: their arc and where do they start and where do

1085
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: they end? And that really helps a lot. And then

1086
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: what do I want to really hone in as a theme.

1087
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,479
Speaker 1: Those are the things that I started start with because

1088
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: the theme helps me to map out the emotional journey

1089
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: of the characters and as well as like the plot

1090
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: points of that. So that usually how I start from

1091
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: a thinking standpoint. I put that down on paper. Then

1092
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: I go into a bee sheet, which is just the

1093
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: major plot points, and then I expand that beach sheet

1094
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: into an outline. And I tend to spend the most

1095
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: of my time and outlining because I like to work

1096
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: out story problems, and I get feedback on my outline,

1097
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: and then I go to draft because I try to

1098
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: write that draft as fast as humanly possible, because I

1099
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 1: think a lot of us get stuck in the writing

1100
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,919
Speaker 1: process and we don't finish. So I try to write

1101
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: that as fast as possible so I can get into rewriting,

1102
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: which is our friend, and that's where I spent a

1103
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: lot of my time as well as getting it right.

1104
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: But at least I have the bones there. Yeah, so

1105
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: I would imagine that again. You know we I think

1106
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: we already talked about how parts can be sensitive about

1107
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: their stuff. How do you manage like the idea of

1108
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: needing to get feedback but also not you know, maybe

1109
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: internalizing some of the feedback. Yeah, Well, I have trusted

1110
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: people that I go to, so I'm in two writer's

1111
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: groups right now, So I have a writer's group, but

1112
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: I trust and even sometimes then depending on the project,

1113
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: I picked the people who I want to get feedback from,

1114
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: and I just don't go wide with feedback. I have

1115
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: friends who get a lot a lot of feedback For me,

1116
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: it then starts to just become too much and overwhelming

1117
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: and confusing. So I keep my feedback circle pretty small

1118
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: for projects. Even for tender like the rough Cut, I

1119
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: sent it to like three friends and then like you know,

1120
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: key crew, but I kept it really really small. So yeah,

1121
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: I just go to trusted people, so I don't internalize

1122
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 1: that when you get notes from other people, like when

1123
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: you're working on you know, studio jobs, that can be

1124
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 1: a little bit more challenging. And so what I do

1125
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: is I let myself just like be mad at the

1126
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: notes for a day and be like, they don't know

1127
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: what they're talking about, and then you know, get over

1128
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: it and get back to my job. Of my job

1129
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 1: and you know, is addressing their notes and then finding

1130
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: a way creatively to do that and also again realizing

1131
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: and affirming my creativity and my power as a writer.

1132
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: And reason why they chose me was because I'll be

1133
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: able to pull this off. So I just kind of

1134
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: affirmed that for myself. M So, what else can we

1135
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: look forward to from you, Felicia besides the longer version

1136
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: of Tinder and maybe a year or so. Yeah, that's

1137
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: not funny for the years, so thank you for that. Yeah. Well,

1138
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm currently working on Erotic Romance with Bill Pack of

1139
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: Productions producing that we sold to Universal, so I'm really

1140
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: excited about that. I also have the Indie feature, another

1141
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: indie feature that I hope to direct that is inspired

1142
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: by my mother, my sister, and my niece, so I'm

1143
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: really excited about that. And then I just have some

1144
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: other things that are kind of cooking, so we'll see

1145
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: where they go. Very exciting. When where can we stick

1146
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: in it with you so we can find out about

1147
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: all the updates. Absolutely, you can follow me on Instagram

1148
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: and Twitter at Felicia Pride. You can also watch Tender

1149
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: at Tender movie dot com. We have playlists there if

1150
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: you like the music in there. Asha Santi who was

1151
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: out of the group Boom Scat together they did all

1152
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: the music in the film, so there's a playlist there.

1153
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 1: There's behind the scenes stuff so everything you can find

1154
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: at tender movie dot com and then my website is

1155
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: Felicia product dot com. Perfect. Well, thank you so much

1156
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: for sharing with us today, Felicia, I appreciate it. Thank

1157
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: you for having me, and thank you for all the

1158
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: work that you do. It is so important and it's

1159
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: it's valuable and also it's it's changing live. So thank you,

1160
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm so thrilled we got to hear from

1161
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: both Michelle and Felicia today. To learn more about them

1162
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: and their work, be sure to visit the show notes

1163
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session one.

1164
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 1: S don't forget to share your takeaways with us on

1165
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag tv G in session, and

1166
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: please text two sisters in your circle right now and

1167
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: encourage them to check out the episode as well. If

1168
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure

1169
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,439
Speaker 1: to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black

1170
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: Girls dot calm slash directory. And if you want to

1171
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic and connect with some other

1172
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: sisters in your area, come on over and join us

1173
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: in the Yellow College Collective, where we take a deeper

1174
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: dive into the topics from the podcast and just about

1175
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: everything else, you can join us at Therapy for Black

1176
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash y c C. Don't forget that.

1177
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a way to end summer on

1178
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: a high note, Cricket Wireless has got just the thing.

1179
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:31,400
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1180
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Speaker 1: lines of unlimited data for a hundred dollars a month.

1181
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for joining me again this week.

1182
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: I look forward to continue in this conversation with you

1183
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: all real soon. Take good care,