WEBVTT - Citizen Elon, Episode 2: Doomscaping 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.720 I distinctly remember it being a Saturday night in November 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.680 of twenty twenty two, and I was around some friends 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:09.680 and we were having some wine and stuff, and I 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:14.079 look at Twitter. Elon tweets something like that out and 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:16.640 I knew right away what was actually happening. 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.759 This is Katie Harbeth. For a decade, she worked at Facebook. 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.160 Her job there was public Policy director for Global Elections, 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.840 which means she understands the dilemma that Twitter, YouTube, every 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.520 other social media site faced on January sixth. It also 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.680 means she was at Facebook when they banned Donald Trump. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.680 Facebook had removed Trump's post before, like when he claimed 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.879 that COVID was quote less lethal than the flu, but 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.680 January sixth was different. That's because after losing the election, 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.400 he kept saying it had been stolen, that he was 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.960 the rifle winner, and then he encouraged his followers in 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.320 vague terms, to get in the way of certifying the 0:00:55.360 --> 0:01:00.160 election by showing up at the capitol. Katie remembers it 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.160 was a tough decision. Suddenly they were having these precedented 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:09.240 conversations about truth, democracy and text role in all of that. 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.760 Elon Musk had a different approach. He tweeted a poll 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.759 quote reinstate former President Trump and a Latin phrase Vox 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.679 Popular Vox day, the voice of the people is the 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.720 voice of the gods. Yes, fifteen million people voted yes 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:26.320 is one, and then. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.760 The Trump account was back by the next Sunday afternoon. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.000 Facebook, on the other hand, was so anxious about what 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.480 to do with Trump they took their decision to an 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:41.280 oversight board. Elon, he just tweeted it. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:42.200 For me. 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:47.200 It was just like it was another indication of just, frankly, 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:51.160 how reckless he is around this and the naivete that 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.600 I felt like he had around trust and safety and 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.440 content moderation and what it means to actually have a 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:58.440 healthy town square. 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.240 Elon kept going. He didn't just bring back Trump's Twitter. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.600 He brought back a live streamer who goes by Baked Alaska, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:10.280 who'd been banned for anti semitism, Kanye West also anti semitism, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.720 Nick Fuentes, who, among a litany of other things, was 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:14.720 being anti Semitic. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.080 I think Elon has this ethos like I can just 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.640 do better, Like this isn't that hard, Like you know, 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:23.640 I can figure this out. 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.240 When he bought Twitter, when he announced he was going 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.480 to take Twitter and make it a free speech platform. 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.520 What did you think when you when you. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:30.880 Heard that. 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.560 That he doesn't know what the heck he's getting into 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:36.320 and what that actually means. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:47.079 I'm Max Chafkin. This is Citizen Elon. On episode one, 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.720 we looked at what radicalized Elon Musk and led him 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.760 to buy Twitter today, why that matters, and how it's 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.560 affecting the election. The early days of Twitter, which Elon 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.639 later renamed x, were crazy. He tried to back out 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.200 of the purchase, then a judge forced her to buy it. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.160 Then he took over. He immediately fired a huge chunk 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.200 of the staff, which led to chaos and lawsuits. He 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.480 was leaking documents about his own company. He named his 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:15.920 own leak the Twitter Files. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.799 How and what he did to purchase Twitter is pretty 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:21.720 astounding here. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.480 Joan Donovan is a journalism professor at BU. We talked 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:26.560 to her last episode. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.240 He was able to bring about billions of dollars in 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:36.120 loans that are now troubling major banks in order to 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:40.440 overpay for something that he would never be able to 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:45.760 recoup his losses on That's not smart for us. Twitter 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:53.120 really represented the beating heart of centrist media. And the 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:54.760 mainstream media in general. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.480 In other words, this was not business as usual, and 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.360 he kept making decisions that's the company's value plummeting. He 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.280 started charging for the blue check which used to mean 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.000 you were verified like you are who you say you are. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.720 The only people who had them were journalists, politicians and celebrities. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.680 Now you can just buy one, which whatever, right it 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:19.919 seemed to lead us in the first place. But the 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.240 difference between say, Joe Biden and someone who says he's 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.760 Joe Biden, it really does matter. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:30.600 And so you saw this massive exodus of high value 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:36.360 users along with also the advertisers. Right at the beginning 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:41.680 of his purchase, his attitude was, you know, goodbye. And 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.560 then of course he brought back in all of the 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.880 folks that had been removed previously. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:54.200 Many of whom paid to be verified, paid for check marks. Suddenly, 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:58.560 trending accounts had names like end Wokeness, hat Turn, and 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.520 also accounts belong to far right influencers like Mike Cernovich 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:08.680 and Glenn Greenwald and Elon. He was right there with them, liking, retweeting, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.400 commenting on those same accounts, and anyway, the most important 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.120 influencer on the right, Donald Trump he wanted nothing to 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.200 do with Elon Musk, maybe because he'd built his own 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.000 free speech platform and wanted his followers to use that 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:24.159 one instead. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.839 And go out by the way while I'm here and 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.279 sign up now for truth Social It's hot is a pistol, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.359 and you stop left wing censorship and restore free speech 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:35.280 in America. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.080 This is from a rally in twenty twenty two, basically 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.080 Trump saying he gets to wear the free speech crown. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.200 He's the guy bringing a public square back to the web. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:52.720 I tell you what, Elon, Elon is not going to 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:53.360 buy Twitter. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:54.760 Nah. 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:55.960 He's a bullshit artist. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.359 He's got himself a mess, but he's not gonna be 0:05:58.400 --> 0:05:58.760 buying it. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:00.960 He'm not going to be buying it. 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.640 Sign up for truth. We love the Truth. 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.440 For almost a year after Elon lennonim back on Twitter, 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.960 Trump's account was silent, but then August twenty fifth, twenty 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.760 twenty three, Trump makes his comeback. It's a photo of 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:23.640 his mugshot. Elon knows Trump tweeting again is very good 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.359 for business. He retweets it. Quote next level. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.080 You recently met with Donald Trump in Florida. What did 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:31.960 you guys talk about? 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.080 I was at a I was not done. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.240 I was at a breakfast at a friend's place and 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:38.279 Donald Trump came by. 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:38.880 That's it. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.360 Eight months later, Elon interviewed by Don Lemon. 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.560 So you didn't go there to meet him? 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:49.160 No, I went to a friend of mine's house and said, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:50.760 Donald Trump's coming by for breakfast? 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:51.120 Is that. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:53.200 Just so you know? 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:53.400 Like? 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.440 Okay? Fine? By the way, at this point, Trump was 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.480 way behind Biden in the money race. She Elon had 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:05.240 plenty of Now Trump needed Elon too. Here's the thing. 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.640 Elon may be rich, but he's also cheap. And nobody 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:14.400 in Washington was expecting him to give money to anyone really. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.320 And that's what really matters to Republicans in Washington. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.720 Josh Green, my colleague at Bloomberg BusinessWeek, he covers politics. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.559 If you're a big capitalist, are you willing to stroke 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.600 a big check to Republicans? And Elon never was. Elon 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.240 Musk talks a big game, but he's never going to 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:39.960 stroke a check, and therefore nobody really cared about him. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:40.920 Good afternoon. 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.280 Then everything changed. 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.240 Last night I spoke with Donald Trump. I'm so surely 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:52.040 grateful that he's doing well and recovering an assassination attempt 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.400 is contrary to everything we stand for as a nation. Everything. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.120 Elon experienced the attempt on Donald Trump's life pretty much 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.520 like the rest of us. Online, he saw the photos 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.080 on social media Trump at the rally, Trump bleeding, or 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:11.160 Trump's fist in the air shouting fight, fight fight. Thirty 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:15.680 minutes later, Elon tweets quote, I fully endorse President Trump 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.920 and hope for his rapid recovery. Soon after, Elon announces 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.120 he's creating his own super pack for Trump, meaning a great, 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:29.440 big check just like that. Elon's a player in Washington, DC. 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:33.960 And you know Elon. 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.079 I love Elon MUNKK do we love him? 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:37.880 I love Elon. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:40.520 Endorsed me at the end of the day, and I 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.559 read I didn't even know this, he didn't even tell 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:47.600 me about it. But he gives me forty five million 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:48.559 dollars a month. 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:54.360 A month, not forty five million. Gives me forty five 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:55.320 million a month. 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.120 And I talked to him just a little while ago 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.920 to say I was coming here, how you doing? And 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.120 he didn't even mention it. He didn't mention. I mean, 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.000 other guys, they give you two dollars and you got 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.120 to take them to lunch. You gotta wind up Diamond. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.000 That's from a Trump rally in July. And if you 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.600 think this feels like a departure from Nah, he's artist 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:23.520 will buckle up to start Elon's tweets. They've gone from 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.600 I fully endorse Trump to saying that there won't be 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.200 in America if Trump loses, to saying that humanity will 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.720 never reach the stars without having a president Donald Trump 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.520 a second time. Then there was Elon's two hour live 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:38.839 interview of Trump on. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.440 X you have definitely got a fertile mind. 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:43.840 We can talk about. 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:45.520 Tuddles and rockets, so many things. 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.559 Then the ads paid for by Elon's pack. 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.040 Trump is the American badass, will stop this nonsense. 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.120 When Trump returned to Butler, Pennsylvania, where the summer's assassination 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.680 attempt happened, Elon went there too. He jumped up and 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.400 down like a kid in a bouncy castle and then 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.920 delivered this kind of halting speech with sentences like bye bye. 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.160 Bute and blood coming down the place. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.960 Two days later, he offered actual payouts to anyone willing 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.480 to refer potential voters in swing states. At first, he 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.040 said he'd pay forty seven dollars because Trump would be 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.520 the forty seven president. Then he up to two one 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.800 hundred dollars. There was no good reason for that. It's 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.400 just a bigger number. And then. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:34.680 I have a surprise for you, which is that we 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:41.200 are going to be awarding a million dollars to randomly 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.839 to people who have signed signed the petition. 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:45.920 Every day. 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.040 From now until the election. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:54.360 What Elon's doing here, it's probably illegal. The government bans 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.880 vote buying, including by way of lottery, But for Elon, 0:10:58.320 --> 0:10:59.199 that's sort of the point. 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.440 You know. One of the challenges we're having is like, well, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.760 how do we get people to know about this petition? 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.480 Because the legacy media is one to report on it, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.640 you know, not everyone's on X So So I figure, 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:14.959 how do we get people to know about it? Well, 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.360 this news, I think is going to really fly. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.600 It's easy to see this as a gimmick or a 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.760 marketing stunt, but by now the money that Elon is 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.320 throwing around is starting to add up. Actually in every way, 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.079 these two guys kind of hated each other before are 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:32.240 now on the same team. 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.120 I mean, to me, the reason that I always thought 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.160 that Elon and Trump would never get together, and to 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.400 be clear, I was very wrong about this was that 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:46.000 they're both these kind of alpha male narcissists who always 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.400 want all the attention to be about them. 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.520 Josh Green again, it just didn't seem like it could happen, 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:52.320 and yet it has. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.080 I think the two of them kind of vibe off 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.520 each other in the sense that they both feel persecuted 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.920 by mainstream media and the popular culture. They're mad, They're 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.040 not going to take it anymore. They're going to gleefully 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:05.120 attack their enemies. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.520 Suddenly, Elon, who just to remind you, world's riches man 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.680 two hundred million Twitter followers, becomes one of the most 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.680 important political actors, a guy who actually might swing an election. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.920 You have donors that just want to give money, they 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:20.960 care about a cause. They will cut the check. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.079 Matt Askowski is a political marketer. He worked on the 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:25.280 last two Trump campaigns. 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:27.280 They will give it to a group or a cause 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.760 they support, and what happens to the money kind of 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.079 becomes irrelevant to them because they supported the cause. I 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.400 would say Elon looks to be on the opposite side 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.439 of the spectrum where he's giving means, but he's also 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.079 activist where he's actually involved with how the money is 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:42.480 spent and it's being deployed. 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.360 What Matt's good at is using data, especially to reach 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.240 people on the Internet. Elon is, of course on Matt's radar. 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:55.320 His world runs on campaign contributions, specifically the big checks. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.959 As of the middle of October, Elon's given one hundred 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.320 and thirty two million dollar, most of it to his 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.200 America Pack. He's undeniably one of the biggest donors. 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.280 It seems like America Pack is largely focused on the 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:13.160 political operation canvassing, door knocking, phone calls, phone baking, those 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.079 types of things, GOOTV and turnout GOOTV. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:17.600 That's get out the vote. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.240 Usually the pack model is use soft dollars to raise 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.199 a bunch of big checks to be able to buy media. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.760 It's we're gonna buy TV, We're gonna buy digitalized and 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:27.000 buy mail and things like that. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:27.959 But this is. 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:29.680 Almost like a quasi campaign. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:34.000 Outside of the campaign, Elon micromanages. He's proud of it. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.840 So that's how he's running his pack. At the start, 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.959 he hired a few hundred canvassers, folks who go door 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.520 to door trying to convince regular people to vote for 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.360 their candidate. Then something happened that annoyed Elon, so he 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.679 fired a bunch of them. Then he brought on an 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.400 entirely new team and fired a bunch of them too. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.960 Still it seems to be working. Matt says. Most canvassing 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.839 operations take years to assemble, built one in just a 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:05.160 few months. His specific target younger men in swing states. 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.480 Now he's got an office set up in Pennsylvania, the 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.440 swing state he said he's specifically focusing his attention on. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.280 He's even sort of stumping, traveling from town to town 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.960 giving talks to voters. By the way, whatever his politics 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:25.160 were before, Elon's politics right now largely mirror Trumps across 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:31.560 the board, immigration, gender, voter rights, the environment. In those 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:36.440 ways and so many others, he's fallen in line. Let's 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.840 step back for a second and answer the question at 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.800 the heart of this Why Why is Elon, who has 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.960 six companies and at least twelve kids, spending all of 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.360 this time and money on Trump? What does he stand? Again? 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.760 Elon's a defense contractor SpaceX his rocket company. They already 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:02.760 have huge contracts with the US government. Elon wants more. Specifically, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.280 he's gunning for NASA to spend tens of billions of 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:06.800 dollars on his Mars colony. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.320 Elon get those rocket ships going because we want to 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.280 reach Mars before the end of my term. We want 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.680 to do it, and we want to have also great 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.000 military protection in space because that's where it's going to 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:20.440 be at. 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.880 Right now, the government's likely to spread the workout across 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:29.440 a bunch of different defense contractors Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.240 But Trump could decide to throw a bunch of business 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:37.160 to SpaceX instead. Also, SpaceX has this side business it's 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.120 called Starlink. Elon's long wanted the government to pay Starlink 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.640 to provide internet to rural areas, to get subsidies that 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.600 the government already has, but to direct them to him. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.800 Starlink has struck out so far, but under another Trump presidency, 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:56.200 maybe we'ld have more of a chance. Second, Tesla's trying 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:00.960 to develop these autonomous cars driverless robotaxis. Trump could help 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.800 get those approved and potentially block Tesla's Chinese competitors from 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:07.880 offering their robotaxis in the US. 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:14.120 I will stop Chinese and other countries produced audible, bial 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.480 and autonomous vehicles. Do you like autonomous? Does anybody like 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:19.760 an autonomous vehicle. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.840 Third, Trump could give Elon a job, and not just 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:24.480 any job. 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.400 I mean, I think it would be great to just 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.760 have a government efficiency commission that ensures that the taxpayer money, 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.840 the taxpayers are harder money, is spent in a good way. 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.120 And I'd be happy to help out on such a commission. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:38.800 I'd love it. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.040 Well, you you're the greatest cutter. I mean, I look 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:42.640 at what you do. 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.520 You walk in during the Twitter spaces interview, and I'm 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.640 the stump. Trump said Elon will be in charge of 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.960 streamlining the government, which, among other things, means he'll be 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.120 the one to decide which government programs get cut in 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.440 which stay. I don't think Elon wants another job, but 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.520 there are lots of federal agencies that are investigating him 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.359 right now, and the simplest way to resist some of 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.960 these investigations would probably just be to defund those agencies. 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:14.720 In short, it'd be the most powerful guy in the 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.560 world in the pocket of the richest guy in the world. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.959 I can't express enough what a big deal that would be. 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.240 Fuck, dude, if you lose. 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:30.200 It does seem that way. You can't just be like like, yeah, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.639 I'm like, how long do you think my prison sentence 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.600 is going to be well, I see my children. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.160 I don't know, because it's not like you can say, well, yeah, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:39.080 I maxed out to him. 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:43.720 But you know, I get This is from an interview 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.119 Elon did with Tucker Carlson in October. It made me 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.719 think maybe Elon's got no choice now that he's back Trump. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.760 Maybe he's afraid that if Kamala Harris wins, she would 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:02.240 have him punished. At the same time, skeptical for starters, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:07.000 nobody's talking about retribution or about Elon's rifle place in jail. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.879 I think maybe he's trying to distract folks from what 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.680 Trump's actually saying and raise himself up as a Maga martyr. 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:20.520 But no matter what, if Trump loses the election, so 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:28.560 does Elon. We've been talking a lot about traditional politics, money, speeches, 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.639 canvassing ads, But there's another way Elon's helped Trump that 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.240 I'd argue is a lot more important. I keep thinking 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.959 about something Joan said about the aftermath of Elon buying Twitter, 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.399 a bunch of users leaving the platform, advertisers cutting ties. 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.639 His attitude was, you know, goodbye, and then of course 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.360 he brought back in all of the folks that had 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.480 been removed previously. 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.520 The thing is, just because Elon's era of Twitter is 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:02.000 less successful in business to doesn't mean it's not still 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:03.560 powerful or dangerous. 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:05.840 You know, we're not going to code it as a 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:11.560 campaign contribution to Trump, but it certainly was. He understood, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:20.160 perhaps more than most, that communication tools are weapons of war, 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:27.359 and he has now the largest psychological weapon that the 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.120 world may have ever known. You can really change how 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.560 an entire society sees itself. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.840 Time and again, Twitter has proven to be a massively 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:42.600 effective tool of communication and organization. Just because advertisers don't 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.480 want any part of it, or because there are fewer 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.960 people tweeting, doesn't mean it's not still happening. It doesn't 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:48.840 mean it doesn't matter. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.000 In my world. I have to do what I call 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:57.080 doom scaping. I have to think about every possible outcome 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:02.800 there is, including Musk pulling a Trump. This is the 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.000 type of guy who if he starts to feel as 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.960 if something has gone wrong. Imagine if he believes the 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.920 twenty twenty four election is rigged, he could start a 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.879 civil war. And you know, we're loading up the flame throwers. 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.360 We're going mad Max style to the Capitol. 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.159 Since leaving Facebook, Katie Harbeth told me she's been a 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.640 consultant basically advising tech companies on how to avoid accidentally 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.120 promoting disinformation or political violence. 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.720 One of the scenarios that we've been thinking through is like, 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.359 you know what if somebody has this video part AI 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:43.720 generated of something nefarious is happening at a polling place, 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.080 whether it's around the counting of votes or something like that. 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.240 One example, at the last presidential debate, Trump made a 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:55.639 debunked claim about Haitians eating people's pets, and just before 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.359 the debate, Elon had tweeted out the same thing to 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.000 his two hundred million followers. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.439 We saw the Haitian immigrants eating dogs in Ohio. It 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.800 doesn't take very long for that to get amplified by others. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.000 The thing I am most worried about, and I think 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.920 is most important, is us protecting trust in the actual 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:17.120 process of conducting elections and people trusting that their vote 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.879 counted and that those votes were counted fairly, even if 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.800 they disagree with the outcome. 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:26.080 This isn't some theoretical issue. It's a thing that's already happened, 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.760 that is happening now in some of the most closely 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.960 contested precincts in America. Neil mckijah chairs the Board of 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:38.160 Elections in Montgomery County in Pennsylvania. It's not far from Philadelphia, 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.560 Neil says, the most important message he wants out there 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.080 the thing he wishes more people understood and believed. 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:51.560 People don't realize how safe, how secure our elections actually are, but. 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.560 The amount of miss and disinformation it's hard to keep 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.679 up with. Back in twenty twenty one, right after the 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.200 attacks on the capital, the local Democratic Party committee received 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.919 a letter from somebody complaining the election had been stolen. 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.119 The letter made it clear something bad was going to happen. 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.240 Then two weeks later, three shots were fired through a 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.239 window at the party's office just across the street from 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.040 where Neil works today. 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:19.919 Thankfully no one was in the office when the shots 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:26.360 were fired into it, but it showed us that disinformation 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:30.000 can lead to violence. You may have clear moments like that, 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.560 you know, essentially a redocs of January sixth, where people 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.959 tried to disrupt the process, and that could be at 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.720 the polling places, it could be at the transition of power. 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:43.080 I think. 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.280 Neil seemed nervous throughout our call. That popping sound in 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:53.640 the background it was him clicking his pen over and over, 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:54.679 faster and faster. 0:22:55.840 --> 0:23:01.680