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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Richard. Sarah's sitting in for George Nori on

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM and we are approaching the seventy

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Speaker 1: fifth anniversary of the Kenneth Arnold sighting of flying saucers

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Speaker 1: near Mount Ranier, Washington, and Charles Lear is with us.

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Speaker 1: He is the author of The Flying Saucer Investigators. Some

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Speaker 1: people may not be aware that Arnold had another sighting

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Speaker 1: in late July of forty seven while he was flying

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Speaker 1: Toto Coma. Just tell us a little bit about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he saw some some something he thought possibly a flock

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Speaker 1: of ducks, but money landed. He checked, he checked, He

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Speaker 1: tried to find witnesses. He a passenger plane landed. He

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Speaker 1: asked the pilots and passengers. They couldn't corroborate it. So

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Speaker 1: after that he vowed to keep a camera with him

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Speaker 1: at all times. So he's on his way to Tacoma

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Speaker 1: to meet with someone named Harold Dall. First of all,

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Speaker 1: who was Doll and why did Arnold want to speak

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Speaker 1: with him? Ray Palmer wrote Arnold a letter asking if

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Speaker 1: he could investigate this. These guys Fred Christman and Harold Doll. Basically,

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Speaker 1: they claimed to have found some strange material on an

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Speaker 1: island called Maury Island near Tacoma, Washington. Arnold said, tell

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Speaker 1: me it's from a flying saucer. Basically, Oh yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: from a flying saucer. And he said, okay, great, we'll

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Speaker 1: look into it, and he wrote. Arnold wrote Arnold a

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Speaker 1: letter asking him to if he would be willing to

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Speaker 1: fly to Tacoma and look into it, and Arnold wrestled

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Speaker 1: with the idea, and then he agreed to. Palmer offered

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Speaker 1: him I think it was two hundred dollars, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, a good champ of change back then, and expenses,

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Speaker 1: and Arnold actually wrestled whether you know it was for

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Speaker 1: him to accept the money. His friend said yeah, So

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Speaker 1: off Arnold went to Tacoma, Washington to investigate this case, effectively,

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Speaker 1: as you point out, making him the first paid, privately

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Speaker 1: funded flying saucer investigator. Yes, yes, which I know. It's

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Speaker 1: absolutely fascinating because Arnold's story normally stops for people with

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Speaker 1: his sighting, right, so, uh, dolls sighting actually predates Arnold's,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it? According to them, Yes, they they They claim

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Speaker 1: the date after the fact. All right, So Doll, before

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Speaker 1: we get into Morey Island, Dall says something to Arnold

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Speaker 1: before he sort of opens up about what he witnessed

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Speaker 1: at Maury Island. What does Doll say to Kenneth Arnold

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Speaker 1: about this whole field of investigating flying saucers and give

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Speaker 1: it up, don't do it, cause you nothing but trouble.

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Speaker 1: Dall claimed all sorts of personal problems, and they were

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Speaker 1: salvage they salvaged logs. He and Christman together had a

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Speaker 1: business salvaging logs from their boat. And he claimed to

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Speaker 1: have lost I think it was a two thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: two thousand dollars worth of salvaged logs. And he blamed

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Speaker 1: all his problems on his sighting. He also lost his wife,

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Speaker 1: didn't he Did she leave him or something like that. No,

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Speaker 1: I never saw anything about that, but she was pretty

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Speaker 1: upset with him. Later that comes later. So Morey Island

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Speaker 1: there they see these what craft lights um and debris

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Speaker 1: starts falling down. Well they said they saw. The story

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Speaker 1: is that Doll saw it first, and he claimed to

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Speaker 1: have seen six donut shit objects and that one of

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Speaker 1: them was having trouble and the other five were hovering

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Speaker 1: around it, and then this thing just dumped a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of material, first black lava like material that was

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Speaker 1: hot and sizzled the ocean and killed Harold Doll's dog

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Speaker 1: and injured his son, broke his arm. And then it

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Speaker 1: dumped a whole bunch of white stuff and like newspaper

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Speaker 1: he described it, and then U they all apparently was better,

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Speaker 1: and then they all flew off. So Doll, according to

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Speaker 1: the story, according to Udall, reported this to Chrisman. Chrismin

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Speaker 1: didn't believe them. Also, the boat was damaged, um they

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Speaker 1: they said. So Dall reported this to Chrisman. Chrisman went

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Speaker 1: out to see it, uh, you know, see if there

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Speaker 1: was any evidence out there. He said he saw the

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Speaker 1: material and then said he saw another donut jap craft himself.

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Speaker 1: So Chrisman said that told Arnold that he was a

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Speaker 1: believer after that. So they they collected some of this.

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Speaker 1: I guess once it was, you know, had cooled down sufficiently,

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Speaker 1: they collected it. Did didn't Doll. Did Doll take Kenneth

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Speaker 1: Arnold to his secretary's house to to see this stuff. Yes, uh,

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's not real clear whose house.

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Speaker 1: It was I think it was supposed to be DAW's house,

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Speaker 1: but his secretary was brought some work home with her

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Speaker 1: and he introduced Arnold to his secretary, and then Arnold

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Speaker 1: asked for a piece of this material. Dog brought it out.

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Speaker 1: He had been using a piece that he had been

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Speaker 1: using as an ashtray, and Arnold in According to Arnold's account,

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Speaker 1: he actually wrote an account of this. He wrote an

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Speaker 1: account for Fate magazine, and then he and Palmer put

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Speaker 1: out together a book together and which also describes this.

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Speaker 1: So in the account, Arnold's response was, why Harold, this

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Speaker 1: is just a piece of lava and didn't he also

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Speaker 1: find some rivets and some of the pieces. There was

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Speaker 1: also some flag and what Arnold recognized as aluminum, and

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Speaker 1: he bought a friend in Um called Big Smithy who

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Speaker 1: would also had a sighting, and together they looked at

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Speaker 1: this material. They thought it was possibly airplane parts because

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Speaker 1: there were but there were square rivots in it, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't know of any square ribbots there would be

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Speaker 1: in airplane parts, so they were kind of mystified by it.

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Speaker 1: In what might be, I don't know, one of the

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Speaker 1: first documented cases of a man in black wasn't a

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Speaker 1: Doll taken to breakfast by someone, well, you described as

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Speaker 1: someone in a black suit. I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: would qualify as a man in black but didn't he

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Speaker 1: kind of warn Doll not to talk about this. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: according to Doll, he told Arnold that this guy took

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Speaker 1: him to breakfast and in a place it was common

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Speaker 1: for businessmen to meet up with these salvagers, take him

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Speaker 1: out to breakfast and negotiate deals for the logs. So

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Speaker 1: Dolls said he didn't see anything unusual about this, and

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Speaker 1: then Dall said that this man repeated Doll's experience to

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Speaker 1: him in great detail and then threatened him if you

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Speaker 1: don't want anything to happen to your family, and you

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Speaker 1: shut up about this. So, ultimately, does Kenneth Arnold believe

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Speaker 1: Doll and Chrisman's account. He wavered back and forth. So

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Speaker 1: in his account, sometimes he's believing it, sometimes he's thinking

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Speaker 1: they're hoaxing. He basically felt he was in over his

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Speaker 1: head and he called two Army Air Force officers I

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Speaker 1: think it was the Office of Special Intelligence, that would

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Speaker 1: be Davidson and Brown. Yes, yes, and he called they

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Speaker 1: said after his sighting, you know if you ever, did

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Speaker 1: any have any this. They gave him his number and

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Speaker 1: said contact us if you need to, so he he did,

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Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I'm involved in this case.

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Speaker 1: Could you guys come to to come and help me

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Speaker 1: out with it? So they did and they they met

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Speaker 1: with a rather mysterious ending, didn't they Davidson and Brown? Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: so what happened was they started losing interest in the

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Speaker 1: case and they had to be back. I think it

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Speaker 1: was in Ohio for the the Army Air Forces had

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Speaker 1: just become the Air Force as we know it now

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Speaker 1: and they were celebrating Air Force Day, so they had

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Speaker 1: to get back. So they lost interest and as they

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Speaker 1: were going to leave, they Arnold and smith Big Smithy

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Speaker 1: and Arnold invited them to stay. They said, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: We've got to get back for the Air Force Day

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Speaker 1: with Hamilton's Field, and so they started leaving. Chrisman said, well,

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Speaker 1: let me get you some of the material. Chrismin drove

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Speaker 1: back to his house and gathered up some of the

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Speaker 1: material and put it in a corn flakes box. As

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Speaker 1: they were getting into their car, Chrisman pulled up and said,

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Speaker 1: here take this. So they grabbed the material while on

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Speaker 1: the way back to Hamilton's Field, their plane crashed and

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Speaker 1: they both died. As they were going down. They got

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Speaker 1: passengers out, put parachutes on them and said jump and

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Speaker 1: then they went down with the plane and died. Wow,

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Speaker 1: which no doubt, just sort of, you know, added to

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Speaker 1: the you know, the whole mythos of the Morey Island case.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing you know, we're taking out as they knew

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Speaker 1: too much. What's really neat about this case is a

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Speaker 1: lot of the parts of the Flying Saucer UFO mythos

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Speaker 1: got its start right there. So you've got men in black,

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Speaker 1: you've got government conspiracy. Um. So, yeah, it's right from

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Speaker 1: the get come and and and so began the Summer

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Speaker 1: of the Saucers. Uh. And you had this newly created

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Speaker 1: Air Force taking up its own investigation in December of

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Speaker 1: that year as a classified code name sign. It became

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Speaker 1: Project blue Book in in nineteen fifty two and was

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Speaker 1: assigned to the Air Material commanded right Patterson Air Force based.

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Speaker 1: So it begins, now it begins. Um, I want to

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Speaker 1: move ahead now to uh nineteen fifty This is a

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Speaker 1: He's a fascinating character, James Moseley. This nineteen year old.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to call him a trust fund brat that

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Speaker 1: might be unkind, but just open up, quits quits Princeton

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Speaker 1: and decides to h he wants to become an explorer.

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Speaker 1: Tell me some of the people that he hooks up with. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing. He wrote a book describing all this called

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Speaker 1: The Shockingly Close to the Truth Confessions of a Great

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Speaker 1: Robbing Upologist. That's a recent book. I think it came

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Speaker 1: out maybe two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: But in any case, the book's amazing. It was a

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Speaker 1: gift to me as a writer because what he did

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Speaker 1: is he started off having to explore specifically as South America,

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Speaker 1: and he hooked up with a couple of guys. The

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Speaker 1: second guy hooked up with was Ken Krepine k R

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Speaker 1: I P P I n E. And Krepine came out

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Speaker 1: to Fort Lee, New Jersey, where he lived, and basically

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Speaker 1: used Arnold as a chauffeur in a cash machine. They

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Speaker 1: had an arrangement then you know, Arnold would pay I

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Speaker 1: think it was four hundred dollars to go down to

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Speaker 1: him go down to South America with him and Mosley.

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Speaker 1: When it got close to time, he said, look, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've essentially given you all this money. When we go,

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Speaker 1: it's on you. So but before they did that, they

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Speaker 1: had an idea to write a book, and Mosley wrote

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Speaker 1: in his book that the idea to write the book

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Speaker 1: was probably Krippines, and the idea of it would be

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Speaker 1: about flying saucers was probably mine. Mosley had an interest

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Speaker 1: in flying officers after hearing about the Thomas Mantell incident

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Speaker 1: from a neighbor. So that's just excuse me, just for

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Speaker 1: people that familiar for people not familiar with the Mantel case,

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Speaker 1: that's the Air National Guard pilot who Thomas Mantel. He

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Speaker 1: he died in a plane crash. I guess he was.

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Speaker 1: He was chasing some huge shiny craft right, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: most likely blocked out from lack of oxygen. That's what

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Speaker 1: the Army Air Forces report, even though it was the

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Speaker 1: Air Force at that time, they were using an Army

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Speaker 1: Air Force's document to write down the report because a

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Speaker 1: lot of them were left over. That's I got from

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Speaker 1: a couple of people, Kevin Kevin, Kevin Randall and Barry

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Speaker 1: Greenwood a boat include me into that's what probably happened.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more