WEBVTT - What Did Teddy Roosevelt Do to Dr. Seuss?! 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:11.879 Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of iHeartRadio. Guess 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:16.000 what Will Ah, That's right, Will is not here today. Actually, 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.840 before this episode, Will told me he loves Teddy Ruxpin 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.320 and Teddy Pendergast, but he has zero interest in Teddy Roosevelt, 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.760 which is what today's episode is all about. So of 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.360 course I let him off the hook. But me, I 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:31.640 love Teddy Roosevelt, and one of the things I love 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:33.920 most about him is that every story you hear about 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.120 the man is better than the last. He gave the 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.920 White House its name, he invited the first black man 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.640 over for dinner there. He made things like national parks, 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.000 but he also tried to bring hippos to the US 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.520 as a meat source, like he actually wanted to farm 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.519 hippos in the Bayou and get people into hippo bacon. 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.599 He walked his pet bear around on a leash, and 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.000 one time in Montana this guy called him four Eyes, 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.680 and even though the dude had two loaded guns on him, 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:03.440 Teddy casually noted him out. I mean, the stories are insane, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.240 but I have so many questions, from whether Roosevelt once 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.320 actually climbed a mountain out of Spie to what were 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.959 Teddy's productivity, life hacks and also what is big stick energy? 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:17.720 So we're diving into all of that. Let's dig in. 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.880 Hey that our podcast listeners, it's Mangashi Dealer. You're listening 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.560 to part time genius and my co founder, co host 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.440 Will Pearson, decide not to come in today. It is 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.160 such a mistake because Loel is wearing a shirt with 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.520 the words Emily Spinach on it. It's got a picture 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:56.840 of a cartoon garter snake, and I'm guessing it has 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.040 something to do with Teddy Roosevelt because he always plans 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.480 for these things. We'll have to ask our guests today 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.720 about that. But I am here with a wonderful Aaron McCarthy. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:07.880 Aaron is the editor in chief of Mental Bloss, a 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.120 position I used to have years ago, and she's an 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.919 old friend. Some of her interviews and articles are still 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.880 some of my favorites on the site. She's the one 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.600 who told me all about jelly Belly's disastrous attempt to 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:23.000 make a pizza flavored jelly bean, and also the oral 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.000 history of Trafford Keepers. But today she's here to talk 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.920 exclusively about a different obsession, Teddy Roosevelt. Hey, Aaron. 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:31.959 Hi, So I want. 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.280 To get into your new podcast, History Versus, which is 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.040 all about Teddy Roosevelt. And I'm not sure if you 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.800 know this, but I years ago I desperately tried to 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.240 get Teddy Roosevelt on the cover of Mental Floss. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:43.000 I did not know. 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.880 I mocked up a version of him cutting like karate 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.079 chopping aboard like in a judo up and no one 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.040 else dnug it. But it's still in. 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:54.079 The arts, I'm king. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.560 So, tell me, how is it that you got so 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:58.960 obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.800 So so I feel like when you work at Mental Floss, 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.320 history is kind of your thing. It's just like, yeah, 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.840 I mean, it's just like it somehow becomes part of 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:09.840 everything that you do. And so, you know, I knew 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:11.240 a little bit about him. I was like, oh, yeah, 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.040 you know, the conservation president. He liked to hunt things, 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.280 and that was sort of where my knowledge ended. And 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.960 then I took a fateful trip to the Strand Bookstore 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.160 and I was just kind of wandering and looking at 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.680 the shelves as I want to do, and I saw 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.680 Colonel Roosevelt by Edmund Morris, and I was like, okay, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.320 I'll just like pick this up and I'll read this, Like, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:32.200 I don't know that much about Tart, it's going to 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.480 be interesting. I didn't know it was the third book 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:42.080 in a trilogy. So I read it and it was amazing. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.040 I cried at the end on the subway, like a 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.280 real weirdo, and so then I had to go back 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.800 and read the others, and then it was just like, 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.200 you know, full speed ahead from there. I was just like, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.800 did you know that Theodore Roosevelt did this? And did 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:55.440 you know that he did this? And now I just 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.000 can't stop talking about him ever and making a podcast 0:03:59.040 --> 0:03:59.920 about it. So that's great. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.320 And it didn't confuse you to start with the third one. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:05.760 It was like starting with Back to the Future three 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:06.200 or something. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.000 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I was just kind 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.040 of like, hmm, maybe I should have gone back to 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:12.600 get the other ones, but I just did, like it 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.080 just didn't even occur to me, and by then I 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:15.440 had bought it, so I was like, well, you know, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.719 I'm just going to read this, Yeah, and then you know, 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:19.960 you go back and I actually I feel like I 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.960 read them. I read the third one, the first one, 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.599 and then the second one, so it was like, really weird, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:29.680 but I came out of it knowing so much more 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.440 about him and just being totally obsessed. 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.120 So it's amazing how your series is structured, because it's 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.600 like history versus and then different aspects that Teddy Roosevelt's battling. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.000 And I want to start with time because I have 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.040 no idea how he managed to get so much into 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:43.320 a day. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.680 Oh me either, me either, And it's just baffling, baffling, 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.799 Like it makes you tired. Yeah, when you read about 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.800 how productive he was, I just strive for that energy 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:54.719 every single day. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.440 Yeah, every day. Well, I mean even as a college student. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.960 You think like college students should be lethargic or whatever, 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.680 but like his schedule that you lay out is insane, right. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.480 Yeah, And I mean that's part of what made him 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.240 so productive was that he just had this devotion to 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.719 a schedule. And what he would do is he would 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.960 block out his time, which allowed him to be more productive. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:16.880 You know, I spoke with productivity experts and they were like, 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.480 this is the key. Obviously he had a lot of energy, 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.039 which helped a lot, but you know, he was just 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.960 really really focused and he blocked out his time and 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.440 apparently all the super productive people in history. Well, maybe 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.720 not all of them, but many of them. Yeah, do that. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:32.560 You know, they'll say, this block of time is for 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.279 reading my book. And you know, he had the schedule 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.080 from when he was on the campaign trail and it 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.040 was literally every hour and a half an hour was 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.000 blocked out. He had something else going on, and that 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.080 allowed him to be super focused and super productive. 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:44.960 Well, the other thing was that he was also like, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:46.960 not only was he reading and doing all these things 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.360 and writing letters, but you're just giving speeches NonStop too, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:51.960 all the time. It's insane. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:53.599 I wonder if he ever got tired of the sound 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.839 of his own voice, because, like, I sometimes get tired 0:05:55.839 --> 0:06:00.960 of this as I'm sitting in the studio podcasting, like ugh, I. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.400 Read somewhere that he had a distinctive voice though too. 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.000 Right, he did. He spoke with this really distinctive style, 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.280 and some people actually think he had a speech impediment 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.360 as a kid. But he had this kind of high 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.280 pitched voice and he would distort words. So there's this 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.040 story that Edmond Marris tells about how when he was 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.120 in the New York State Assembly, he would just yell 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.680 mister speaker, mister speaker, like forty times, just over and 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:25.880 over until the speaker would acknowledge him. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:26.599 You know. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.520 So he was he was a weirdo. They always talk 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.919 about his teeth. One of my favorite things that I 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.599 learned from this podcast is that people talked about his 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.720 teeth all the time. And so when he was police 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.120 Commissioner of New York, Vendors Street Vendors used to make 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.960 these whistles and they were Roosevelt whistles and they had 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:47.000 his teeth on them. Yeah, And I mean, I'm assuming 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:48.760 they were really cheap because I can't find any of 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.560 them on eBay. I've looked, but yeah, like his teeth 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.960 were just so distinctive, you know, just like really white 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.000 and square, and he was always just like chomping on words. 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.320 That's funny because I I guess if you think about 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.320 like the caricatures of him, they do have that, but 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.560 it's not something that I picked up on. 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.320 Well, now you're gonna notice, Well. 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.600 He also used to put those teeth to good use 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.120 for meals, right, Like he was a big eater. 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.360 Oh, a big eater, huge eater. Yeah, and you know, 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.160 like pretty plain stuff. He wasn't like into super duper 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.240 fancy foods. But yeah, he ate a lot, so when 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.400 he wasn't being as active, he got kind of chunky 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.679 and it made him sad. Yeah. 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.160 The other thing I didn't realize was how much coffee 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:34.720 he drank. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.400 So much, so like a gallon a day. 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.560 Yeah, I mean, and what was his his son something 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.920 that said something like his coffee mugs resembled a bathtub. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.520 Yeah, it's more in the nature of a bathtub. And actually, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.000 if you go to the birthplace in New York, they 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.239 have like a tea cup of his and it's huge. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.280 It's huge. Really, Yeah, it's really, it's really big. And 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.320 now at the gift shops in some places they actually 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.480 sell a bull Moose coffee mug that's like really big. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.000 So I obviously bought one and I drink my coffee 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.560 out of it exclusively now because I too have a 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.960 bit of a caffeine problem. Not that badly, but pretty bad. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.800 Well, tell me a little bit about his childhood, because 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.400 I feel like you think about Teddy Roosevelt and you 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.680 imagine him as this super rugged person, which he was. 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:20.679 But he grew up in New York City partially. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:22.640 Yeah, so he was born in New York City in 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.040 eighteen fifty eight, and you know, he was born to 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.720 a very wealthy family. His father. The family business was 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.880 plate glass importing. Really but yeah, it's weird, right, And 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.800 I think his father was eighth generation Dutch New Yorker. 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.600 But his father, THEI was basically a professional philanthropist. He 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.760 gave money away like crazy, and he supported a lot 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.480 of causes like the Newsboys lodging house, and he would 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.360 bring the kids along to go down there. So service 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.760 was like a really big part of his life growing up. 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.040 His father also was part of the founding of the 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.280 American Museum of Natural History and the Metropolitan Museum of Art. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.319 So like this guy was just give away money, making 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.200 it rain towards worthy causes all the time. So Tir 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.880 was born. He was the second child, first son. He 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.040 had his first asthma attack at age three, and he 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.840 had asthma so badly that he would have to sleep 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.360 sitting up. His parents really didn't think he was going 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.440 to live to see his fourth birthday. They would make 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.000 him drink black coffee and smoke cigars to try to 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.520 get him to like breathe, which makes no sense, but 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.600 you know, at that day it was or in that 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.160 day it was. You know, that was the cutting edge. 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.400 And you know, when your kid is sick, you're willing 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.120 to do basically anything that you think is going to help. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.240 So you know, his father would put him in the 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.280 carriage and go for these wild rides down the road 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.640 trying to force air into TR's lungs, Yeah, to try 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.360 to get him to breathe. And you know back then, 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.520 I mean asthma is still it can be fatal today, 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.880 but back then it was it was really bad. So yeah, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.200 he was this sickly little kid, but well traveled. So 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.000 you know, they lived in New York and the family 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.400 would go out. They would spend summers in New Jersey 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.400 or out on Long Island just to kind of get 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.680 the fresh air. Tir and his mother would go to 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.960 these like health spas where they would take the waters 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:12.520 or do whatever it is that you did in that 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.440 day to try to make yourself healthier. And they toured 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.040 Europe and they did the same sort of thing over there. 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.160 So yeah, he had this kind of crazy, crazy childhood 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.400 where he was all over the place and you know, 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.480 just like a sick, sick little kid. And then when 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.400 he was a teenager or just about to be a teenager. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.719 His father said to him, you have the mind, but 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.720 not the body, and so you have to build your body. 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.360 And so now we think of him as this robust guy, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.480 and he really built himself up to be that robust guy. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.199 He basically they built a little gym out on the 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.400 piazza and he would be out there, like lifting weights 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.560 and pull ups and yeah, I mean, yeah, basically, like 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.800 that's kind of what it was like. Although I guess 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.760 there was like a beautiful garden in the back yard 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:58.680 or whatever, so he would be like lifting weights and 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.280 looking out over the garden. And then he took up 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.960 boxing because he actually took this trip up to I 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.520 want to say, Moosehead Lake in Maine. But he met 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.840 these kids on the stage coach on the way up there, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:12.920 and they just beat the crap out of him, and 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:14.840 so you know, he's like, I've been lifting weights for 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.040 two years, why can't I like take on these kids. 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:19.320 And so then he was like, I'm going to take 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:23.760 up boxing. So he became a lifelong boxer at least 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.439 until he got punched in the eye and lost part 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.600 of the site in his eye. As President the White House, yeah, 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:31.800 just crazy, Yeah, and then it was like no more boxing, 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.840 so that's when he took up judo, anything to stay active. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.040 It reminds me of the Jersey Shore where like all 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:44.760 these people can't fight, but they lift weights to say, yeah, 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.640 but if you have that much focus towards any activity, 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.480 I'm sure you just get great at it, right, Like 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.520 if you had that same focus as a child. 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.319 Well, and I mean like and he applied that same 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.679 focus to everything he did, like all throughout his life, 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.000 so you know, and I mean I think it helped 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.600 that his father was the one to kind of push him. 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.560 He worshiped his father, and you can sort of see 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.760 how that plays out throughout the rest of his life 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.600 in a lot of really interesting ways. But his father 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.120 told him weakness is a shame and often a sin. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.160 And you can imagine if you worship your father and 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.120 your father tells you that, what would happen or how 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.280 you would act down the line to kind of not 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.160 be not show your weakness. So whenever he has any 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.040 kind of major tragedy in his life, he just is 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.360 like he doesn't show it, he doesn't talk about it, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.480 he acts like it didn't happen. And I think you 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:35.600 can trace that back to not wanting to show weakness. 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.880 Ah, there's so much good stuff, but we need to 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:54.680 pause more with Aaron after the break. Okay, So we're 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.400 here with Aaron McCarthy and of Mental Floss talking about Teddy 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.800 Roosevelt as a child. I know from the podcast that 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.160 he had a snapping turtle that he like strapped to 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.200 a sink or something. Yeah, and he tried to train 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.640 a woodchuck is Yeah. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.520 Yeah, so he was that possible. I mean, I don't 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.680 think it was, but you know he was going to try, 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.320 so he you know, growing up in New York, you 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.680 sort of feel like maybe you're not going to see 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.240 a lot of nature, but there's actually a lot of 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.920 nature all around you in New York, which I can 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.240 attest to. So one day he was walking down the street. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.440 He was going to get strawberries from the market or something, 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.120 and he saw a dead seal at the market and 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.120 it just kind of like changed his whole life in 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.000 New York. Yeah, it had been swimming in the harbor 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:41.160 and somebody killed it and which poor seal. But you know, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.000 they brought it up and they I guess we're trying 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.280 to sell it or something. Sure, And so he saw 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.199 it and he was like, I need to know everything 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.120 about this seal. So he was measuring it and he 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.520 really wanted to bring it home with him, which I 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.760 can only imagine what people would have thought at his house. 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.160 But he ended up bringing the skull home, and then 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.640 that sort of kicked off this obsession with nature, and 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.520 so he would just bring things home living dead. He 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.560 keep them in his room. He had the snapping turtle. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.000 I feel like there was some squirrels that he raised 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.760 by hand or something. I mean, he was just obsessed 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.280 with obsessed with nature. And it's a funny thing too, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.000 because you know, I think today we kind of think 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.200 to ourselves, like, well, how could someone who loved nature 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.080 so much go out and hunt like he did? As 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.120 someone told me, that's very like twenty first century attitude. 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.240 Back in the day, there wasn't a difference between being 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.840 a hunter and a scientist. You know, if you wanted 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.440 to know about animals, if you wanted to study them, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.520 you kind of had to kill them and see what 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.400 made them work. And so he did that a lot. 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.760 Yeah, so no, it's hard to reconcile those things. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.200 Right it is now, yeah, but not back then. It 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.120 was just it was it was the thing. One thing 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.880 that I think is interesting that came up in the 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.040 course of researching this is that, you know, a lot 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.720 of hunters of that day were the first constan deists 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.520 because they could see, you know, that animal populations were depleting, 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.440 and so they said, you know, we need to take 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:08.800 care of these like if we want to still be 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.880 hunting them many years in the future, we need to 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.320 make sure that the populations are managed. And so you'll 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.440 see that, and you'll see that today. Like if you 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.840 are a hunter and you pay for a hunting license, 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.640 a lot of times that goes back to conserving animal populations. 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.560 Protecting animal populations, you know, so if you pay for 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.960 a permit to shoot a bear, which makes me sad, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.400 but it's a thing that happens that goes back to 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.720 helping bears. So it's one of those things. I'm actually 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.440 surprised more people didn't yell at me about that Nature 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:43.280 episode because I'm a big believer in scientific collections. Yeah, 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.480 that's a thing that's kind of controversial these days. 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.920 Yeah, I mean, they inspire so much wonder you know, 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.360 and just being at the museums and stuff, and if 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:56.880 you couldn't have seen all these wonderful taxidermy things, right, Like, 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.280 it's hard to imagine being as interested in animal at 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:00.760 least for me. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.800 Yeah, and you know they have in the back rooms 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.080 of museums they have just drawers and drawers filled with specimens. 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.800 For me, once we went to see like the hippos 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.000 hippos skulls, which was incredible. 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.840 They're so cool, They're massive, they're huge. It's like, how 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.080 can you figure out, for example, if mercury levels are 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.320 rising in the world's oceans. Well, you can go back 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.560 and you can look at the feathers of seabirds in 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.840 scientific collections and you can prove that mercury is rising 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:29.520 in the ocean. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:30.080 Yeah. 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.040 If you didn't have those specimens, you couldn't make that discovery. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.800 So that's kind of important. The way that scientists collect 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.000 today is not like it used to be. I mean, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.920 I feel like, especially for tr he would go out 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:44.920 and he would just. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:45.880 Be like, bag stuff. 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.200 I'm a bag everything I can bag science. 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.120 In high school, I saw Bill Clinton was going to 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.880 Africa and they were contrasting his trip there with like 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.080 Teddy Roosevelts, and it just listed out all animals he shot. 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.879 Hundreds, like hundreds, five hundreds of animals. Yeah, yeah, And 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:06.959 they went to the Museum of Natural History, they went 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.160 to the Smithsonian. There are some like I guess ticks 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.679 that came from those animals are in a collection of 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.240 ticks down in Georgia or something. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:15.520 Yeah. 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.400 Crazy, And I was like, I want to go there, 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:19.720 but maybe one day. 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.680 Well. The other thing that's interesting to me is that Roosevelt. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:25.800 You think of him as such a collector, right he 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.479 has this like little museum in his house or in 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.320 his room or whatever, and and he's always contributing to 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.760 things and whatever. Jefferson also kind of had that inclination, right, 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.439 like he collected fossils and whatever. But Roosevelt did not 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:40.480 like Jefferson. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.560 Hated him so much, hated him. 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:43.320 Why is that? 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.920 Well, one, Jefferson was a constitutionalist, right, so he really believed, 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.280 at least my understanding of it is he believed that 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.879 the president's powers were limited to what was written specifically 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.240 in the Constitution. And I think he kind of bent 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.560 the rules a little bit for the Louisiana purchase, but 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.719 otherwise it was basically like the Constitution is what it is. 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.359 And Tir was a Hamiltonian and he sort of thought, well, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.040 you know, if it's not expressly forbidden by law or 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.119 the Constitution, I can kind of do what I want. 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.480 And he did so I think it has something to 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.000 do with that. He also had an issue with the 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:24.600 way that Jefferson dealt with George Washington, or like tried 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.960 to undermine George Washington, and Washington tr held up to 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.840 a pretty high He put him on a pedestal, not 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.760 as high as the pedestal he put Lincoln on, but 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:36.520 you know, he thought Washington was pretty great. 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.280 Well, that was a funny line in your show, was 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.600 talking about how, you know, he loved Lincoln but less 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.280 enamored with his neighbor Jefferson. 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.679 Jefferson hated Jefferson so much. And what's so funny is 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.119 that at Sagamore Hill, Roosevelt's Long Island estate, there is 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.879 a portrait of Jefferson hanging I think like on the 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.919 second or third floor. And as we were touring it, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.159 I said to Tyler Coloberta, who's the education technician there, like, 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.480 what's what's this doing here? And he goes, you know, 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:02.560 I have no idea. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:03.480 That's really funny. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.560 He just needed some things, I know, I know it's 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.359 like somebody's fooling around here, somebody's playing a little trick. 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.359 That's pretty funny. So tell me about his obsession with Lincoln, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.359 because it starts when he's pretty young, right. 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.720 Yeah, well, so his father actually worked with Lincoln. 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.840 I get so confused about the times, like the fact 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.800 that he like his he kind of interacts with Lincoln 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:26.760