1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of iHeartRadio. Guess 2 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: what Will Ah, That's right, Will is not here today. Actually, 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: before this episode, Will told me he loves Teddy Ruxpin 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: and Teddy Pendergast, but he has zero interest in Teddy Roosevelt, 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: which is what today's episode is all about. So of 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: course I let him off the hook. But me, I 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: love Teddy Roosevelt, and one of the things I love 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: most about him is that every story you hear about 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: the man is better than the last. He gave the 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: White House its name, he invited the first black man 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: over for dinner there. He made things like national parks, 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: but he also tried to bring hippos to the US 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: as a meat source, like he actually wanted to farm 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: hippos in the Bayou and get people into hippo bacon. 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: He walked his pet bear around on a leash, and 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: one time in Montana this guy called him four Eyes, 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: and even though the dude had two loaded guns on him, 18 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: Teddy casually noted him out. I mean, the stories are insane, 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: but I have so many questions, from whether Roosevelt once 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: actually climbed a mountain out of Spie to what were 21 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: Teddy's productivity, life hacks and also what is big stick energy? 22 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: So we're diving into all of that. Let's dig in. 23 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: Hey that our podcast listeners, it's Mangashi Dealer. You're listening 24 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: to part time genius and my co founder, co host 25 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: Will Pearson, decide not to come in today. It is 26 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: such a mistake because Loel is wearing a shirt with 27 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: the words Emily Spinach on it. It's got a picture 28 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: of a cartoon garter snake, and I'm guessing it has 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: something to do with Teddy Roosevelt because he always plans 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: for these things. We'll have to ask our guests today 31 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: about that. But I am here with a wonderful Aaron McCarthy. 32 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: Aaron is the editor in chief of Mental Bloss, a 33 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: position I used to have years ago, and she's an 34 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: old friend. Some of her interviews and articles are still 35 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: some of my favorites on the site. She's the one 36 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: who told me all about jelly Belly's disastrous attempt to 37 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: make a pizza flavored jelly bean, and also the oral 38 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: history of Trafford Keepers. But today she's here to talk 39 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: exclusively about a different obsession, Teddy Roosevelt. Hey, Aaron. 40 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 2: Hi, So I want. 41 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: To get into your new podcast, History Versus, which is 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: all about Teddy Roosevelt. And I'm not sure if you 43 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: know this, but I years ago I desperately tried to 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: get Teddy Roosevelt on the cover of Mental Floss. 45 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: I did not know. 46 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: I mocked up a version of him cutting like karate 47 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: chopping aboard like in a judo up and no one 48 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: else dnug it. But it's still in. 49 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 2: The arts, I'm king. 50 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: So, tell me, how is it that you got so 51 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: obsessed with Teddy Roosevelt. 52 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: So so I feel like when you work at Mental Floss, 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: history is kind of your thing. It's just like, yeah, 54 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like it somehow becomes part of 55 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: everything that you do. And so, you know, I knew 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: a little bit about him. I was like, oh, yeah, 57 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: you know, the conservation president. He liked to hunt things, 58 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: and that was sort of where my knowledge ended. And 59 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: then I took a fateful trip to the Strand Bookstore 60 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: and I was just kind of wandering and looking at 61 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: the shelves as I want to do, and I saw 62 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: Colonel Roosevelt by Edmund Morris, and I was like, okay, 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: I'll just like pick this up and I'll read this, Like, 64 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: I don't know that much about Tart, it's going to 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: be interesting. I didn't know it was the third book 66 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: in a trilogy. So I read it and it was amazing. 67 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: I cried at the end on the subway, like a 68 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: real weirdo, and so then I had to go back 69 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: and read the others, and then it was just like, 70 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: you know, full speed ahead from there. I was just like, 71 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: did you know that Theodore Roosevelt did this? And did 72 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: you know that he did this? And now I just 73 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: can't stop talking about him ever and making a podcast 74 00:03:59,040 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: about it. So that's great. 75 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: And it didn't confuse you to start with the third one. 76 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: It was like starting with Back to the Future three 77 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: or something. 78 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I was just kind 79 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: of like, hmm, maybe I should have gone back to 80 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: get the other ones, but I just did, like it 81 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: just didn't even occur to me, and by then I 82 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: had bought it, so I was like, well, you know, 83 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: I'm just going to read this, Yeah, and then you know, 84 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: you go back and I actually I feel like I 85 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: read them. I read the third one, the first one, 86 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: and then the second one, so it was like, really weird, 87 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: but I came out of it knowing so much more 88 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 2: about him and just being totally obsessed. 89 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: So it's amazing how your series is structured, because it's 90 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: like history versus and then different aspects that Teddy Roosevelt's battling. 91 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: And I want to start with time because I have 92 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: no idea how he managed to get so much into 93 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: a day. 94 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: Oh me either, me either, And it's just baffling, baffling, 95 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 2: Like it makes you tired. Yeah, when you read about 96 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: how productive he was, I just strive for that energy 97 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: every single day. 98 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, every day. Well, I mean even as a college student. 99 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: You think like college students should be lethargic or whatever, 100 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: but like his schedule that you lay out is insane, right. 101 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean that's part of what made him 102 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: so productive was that he just had this devotion to 103 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 2: a schedule. And what he would do is he would 104 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: block out his time, which allowed him to be more productive. 105 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: You know, I spoke with productivity experts and they were like, 106 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 2: this is the key. Obviously he had a lot of energy, 107 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: which helped a lot, but you know, he was just 108 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: really really focused and he blocked out his time and 109 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: apparently all the super productive people in history. Well, maybe 110 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: not all of them, but many of them. Yeah, do that. 111 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: You know, they'll say, this block of time is for 112 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 2: reading my book. And you know, he had the schedule 113 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: from when he was on the campaign trail and it 114 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: was literally every hour and a half an hour was 115 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: blocked out. He had something else going on, and that 116 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: allowed him to be super focused and super productive. 117 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: Well, the other thing was that he was also like, 118 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: not only was he reading and doing all these things 119 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: and writing letters, but you're just giving speeches NonStop too, 120 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: all the time. It's insane. 121 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 2: I wonder if he ever got tired of the sound 122 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 2: of his own voice, because, like, I sometimes get tired 123 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: of this as I'm sitting in the studio podcasting, like ugh, I. 124 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: Read somewhere that he had a distinctive voice though too. 125 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: Right, he did. He spoke with this really distinctive style, 126 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 2: and some people actually think he had a speech impediment 127 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: as a kid. But he had this kind of high 128 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: pitched voice and he would distort words. So there's this 129 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: story that Edmond Marris tells about how when he was 130 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: in the New York State Assembly, he would just yell 131 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: mister speaker, mister speaker, like forty times, just over and 132 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: over until the speaker would acknowledge him. 133 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: You know. 134 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: So he was he was a weirdo. They always talk 135 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: about his teeth. One of my favorite things that I 136 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 2: learned from this podcast is that people talked about his 137 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 2: teeth all the time. And so when he was police 138 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: Commissioner of New York, Vendors Street Vendors used to make 139 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: these whistles and they were Roosevelt whistles and they had 140 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: his teeth on them. Yeah, And I mean, I'm assuming 141 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: they were really cheap because I can't find any of 142 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: them on eBay. I've looked, but yeah, like his teeth 143 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: were just so distinctive, you know, just like really white 144 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: and square, and he was always just like chomping on words. 145 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: That's funny because I I guess if you think about 146 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: like the caricatures of him, they do have that, but 147 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: it's not something that I picked up on. 148 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: Well, now you're gonna notice, Well. 149 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: He also used to put those teeth to good use 150 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: for meals, right, Like he was a big eater. 151 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: Oh, a big eater, huge eater. Yeah, and you know, 152 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: like pretty plain stuff. He wasn't like into super duper 153 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: fancy foods. But yeah, he ate a lot, so when 154 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: he wasn't being as active, he got kind of chunky 155 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,679 Speaker 2: and it made him sad. Yeah. 156 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: The other thing I didn't realize was how much coffee 157 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: he drank. 158 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: So much, so like a gallon a day. 159 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and what was his his son something 160 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: that said something like his coffee mugs resembled a bathtub. 161 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's more in the nature of a bathtub. And actually, 162 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: if you go to the birthplace in New York, they 163 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,239 Speaker 2: have like a tea cup of his and it's huge. 164 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: It's huge. Really, Yeah, it's really, it's really big. And 165 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: now at the gift shops in some places they actually 166 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: sell a bull Moose coffee mug that's like really big. 167 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: So I obviously bought one and I drink my coffee 168 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: out of it exclusively now because I too have a 169 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: bit of a caffeine problem. Not that badly, but pretty bad. 170 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: Well, tell me a little bit about his childhood, because 171 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: I feel like you think about Teddy Roosevelt and you 172 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: imagine him as this super rugged person, which he was. 173 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 1: But he grew up in New York City partially. 174 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was born in New York City in 175 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: eighteen fifty eight, and you know, he was born to 176 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: a very wealthy family. His father. The family business was 177 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: plate glass importing. Really but yeah, it's weird, right, And 178 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: I think his father was eighth generation Dutch New Yorker. 179 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: But his father, THEI was basically a professional philanthropist. He 180 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: gave money away like crazy, and he supported a lot 181 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: of causes like the Newsboys lodging house, and he would 182 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: bring the kids along to go down there. So service 183 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: was like a really big part of his life growing up. 184 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: His father also was part of the founding of the 185 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: American Museum of Natural History and the Metropolitan Museum of Art. 186 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 2: So like this guy was just give away money, making 187 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: it rain towards worthy causes all the time. So Tir 188 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: was born. He was the second child, first son. He 189 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: had his first asthma attack at age three, and he 190 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: had asthma so badly that he would have to sleep 191 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: sitting up. His parents really didn't think he was going 192 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: to live to see his fourth birthday. They would make 193 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: him drink black coffee and smoke cigars to try to 194 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: get him to like breathe, which makes no sense, but 195 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: you know, at that day it was or in that 196 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: day it was. You know, that was the cutting edge. 197 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: And you know, when your kid is sick, you're willing 198 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: to do basically anything that you think is going to help. 199 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: So you know, his father would put him in the 200 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: carriage and go for these wild rides down the road 201 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: trying to force air into TR's lungs, Yeah, to try 202 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: to get him to breathe. And you know back then, 203 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: I mean asthma is still it can be fatal today, 204 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: but back then it was it was really bad. So yeah, 205 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: he was this sickly little kid, but well traveled. So 206 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: you know, they lived in New York and the family 207 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: would go out. They would spend summers in New Jersey 208 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: or out on Long Island just to kind of get 209 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: the fresh air. Tir and his mother would go to 210 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 2: these like health spas where they would take the waters 211 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: or do whatever it is that you did in that 212 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: day to try to make yourself healthier. And they toured 213 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: Europe and they did the same sort of thing over there. 214 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: So yeah, he had this kind of crazy, crazy childhood 215 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: where he was all over the place and you know, 216 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: just like a sick, sick little kid. And then when 217 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: he was a teenager or just about to be a teenager. 218 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 2: His father said to him, you have the mind, but 219 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: not the body, and so you have to build your body. 220 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 2: And so now we think of him as this robust guy, 221 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: and he really built himself up to be that robust guy. 222 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 2: He basically they built a little gym out on the 223 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: piazza and he would be out there, like lifting weights 224 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 2: and pull ups and yeah, I mean, yeah, basically, like 225 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: that's kind of what it was like. Although I guess 226 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: there was like a beautiful garden in the back yard 227 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: or whatever, so he would be like lifting weights and 228 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 2: looking out over the garden. And then he took up 229 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 2: boxing because he actually took this trip up to I 230 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: want to say, Moosehead Lake in Maine. But he met 231 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 2: these kids on the stage coach on the way up there, 232 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: and they just beat the crap out of him, and 233 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: so you know, he's like, I've been lifting weights for 234 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: two years, why can't I like take on these kids. 235 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 2: And so then he was like, I'm going to take 236 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: up boxing. So he became a lifelong boxer at least 237 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 2: until he got punched in the eye and lost part 238 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: of the site in his eye. As President the White House, yeah, 239 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: just crazy, Yeah, and then it was like no more boxing, 240 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 2: so that's when he took up judo, anything to stay active. 241 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the Jersey Shore where like all 242 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: these people can't fight, but they lift weights to say, yeah, 243 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: but if you have that much focus towards any activity, 244 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure you just get great at it, right, Like 245 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: if you had that same focus as a child. 246 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 2: Well, and I mean like and he applied that same 247 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 2: focus to everything he did, like all throughout his life, 248 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: so you know, and I mean I think it helped 249 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: that his father was the one to kind of push him. 250 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 2: He worshiped his father, and you can sort of see 251 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: how that plays out throughout the rest of his life 252 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: in a lot of really interesting ways. But his father 253 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: told him weakness is a shame and often a sin. 254 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: And you can imagine if you worship your father and 255 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 2: your father tells you that, what would happen or how 256 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: you would act down the line to kind of not 257 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: be not show your weakness. So whenever he has any 258 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: kind of major tragedy in his life, he just is 259 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: like he doesn't show it, he doesn't talk about it, 260 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: he acts like it didn't happen. And I think you 261 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: can trace that back to not wanting to show weakness. 262 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: Ah, there's so much good stuff, but we need to 263 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: pause more with Aaron after the break. Okay, So we're 264 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: here with Aaron McCarthy and of Mental Floss talking about Teddy 265 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: Roosevelt as a child. I know from the podcast that 266 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: he had a snapping turtle that he like strapped to 267 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: a sink or something. Yeah, and he tried to train 268 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: a woodchuck is Yeah. 269 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was that possible. I mean, I don't 270 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 2: think it was, but you know he was going to try, 271 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 2: so he you know, growing up in New York, you 272 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: sort of feel like maybe you're not going to see 273 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: a lot of nature, but there's actually a lot of 274 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: nature all around you in New York, which I can 275 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: attest to. So one day he was walking down the street. 276 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 2: He was going to get strawberries from the market or something, 277 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: and he saw a dead seal at the market and 278 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: it just kind of like changed his whole life in 279 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: New York. Yeah, it had been swimming in the harbor 280 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: and somebody killed it and which poor seal. But you know, 281 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: they brought it up and they I guess we're trying 282 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: to sell it or something. Sure, And so he saw 283 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 2: it and he was like, I need to know everything 284 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: about this seal. So he was measuring it and he 285 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: really wanted to bring it home with him, which I 286 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: can only imagine what people would have thought at his house. 287 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: But he ended up bringing the skull home, and then 288 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: that sort of kicked off this obsession with nature, and 289 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: so he would just bring things home living dead. He 290 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 2: keep them in his room. He had the snapping turtle. 291 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: I feel like there was some squirrels that he raised 292 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: by hand or something. I mean, he was just obsessed 293 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: with obsessed with nature. And it's a funny thing too, 294 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: because you know, I think today we kind of think 295 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: to ourselves, like, well, how could someone who loved nature 296 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: so much go out and hunt like he did? As 297 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: someone told me, that's very like twenty first century attitude. 298 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: Back in the day, there wasn't a difference between being 299 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: a hunter and a scientist. You know, if you wanted 300 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: to know about animals, if you wanted to study them, 301 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: you kind of had to kill them and see what 302 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: made them work. And so he did that a lot. 303 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, so no, it's hard to reconcile those things. 304 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: Right it is now, yeah, but not back then. It 305 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 2: was just it was it was the thing. One thing 306 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: that I think is interesting that came up in the 307 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: course of researching this is that, you know, a lot 308 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: of hunters of that day were the first constan deists 309 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 2: because they could see, you know, that animal populations were depleting, 310 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: and so they said, you know, we need to take 311 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 2: care of these like if we want to still be 312 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: hunting them many years in the future, we need to 313 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: make sure that the populations are managed. And so you'll 314 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: see that, and you'll see that today. Like if you 315 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 2: are a hunter and you pay for a hunting license, 316 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: a lot of times that goes back to conserving animal populations. 317 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 2: Protecting animal populations, you know, so if you pay for 318 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: a permit to shoot a bear, which makes me sad, 319 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 2: but it's a thing that happens that goes back to 320 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: helping bears. So it's one of those things. I'm actually 321 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: surprised more people didn't yell at me about that Nature 322 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: episode because I'm a big believer in scientific collections. Yeah, 323 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 2: that's a thing that's kind of controversial these days. 324 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they inspire so much wonder you know, 325 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: and just being at the museums and stuff, and if 326 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: you couldn't have seen all these wonderful taxidermy things, right, Like, 327 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine being as interested in animal at 328 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: least for me. 329 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know they have in the back rooms 330 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: of museums they have just drawers and drawers filled with specimens. 331 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: For me, once we went to see like the hippos 332 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: hippos skulls, which was incredible. 333 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: They're so cool, They're massive, they're huge. It's like, how 334 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: can you figure out, for example, if mercury levels are 335 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: rising in the world's oceans. Well, you can go back 336 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: and you can look at the feathers of seabirds in 337 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: scientific collections and you can prove that mercury is rising 338 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: in the ocean. 339 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 340 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: If you didn't have those specimens, you couldn't make that discovery. 341 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: So that's kind of important. The way that scientists collect 342 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: today is not like it used to be. I mean, 343 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: I feel like, especially for tr he would go out 344 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 2: and he would just. 345 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: Be like, bag stuff. 346 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: I'm a bag everything I can bag science. 347 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: In high school, I saw Bill Clinton was going to 348 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: Africa and they were contrasting his trip there with like 349 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelts, and it just listed out all animals he shot. 350 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: Hundreds, like hundreds, five hundreds of animals. Yeah, yeah, And 351 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 2: they went to the Museum of Natural History, they went 352 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 2: to the Smithsonian. There are some like I guess ticks 353 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 2: that came from those animals are in a collection of 354 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: ticks down in Georgia or something. 355 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 356 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 2: Crazy, And I was like, I want to go there, 357 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 2: but maybe one day. 358 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: Well. The other thing that's interesting to me is that Roosevelt. 359 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: You think of him as such a collector, right he 360 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: has this like little museum in his house or in 361 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: his room or whatever, and and he's always contributing to 362 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: things and whatever. Jefferson also kind of had that inclination, right, 363 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: like he collected fossils and whatever. But Roosevelt did not 364 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: like Jefferson. 365 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: Hated him so much, hated him. 366 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: Why is that? 367 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: Well, one, Jefferson was a constitutionalist, right, so he really believed, 368 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: at least my understanding of it is he believed that 369 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: the president's powers were limited to what was written specifically 370 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: in the Constitution. And I think he kind of bent 371 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: the rules a little bit for the Louisiana purchase, but 372 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 2: otherwise it was basically like the Constitution is what it is. 373 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: And Tir was a Hamiltonian and he sort of thought, well, 374 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: you know, if it's not expressly forbidden by law or 375 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 2: the Constitution, I can kind of do what I want. 376 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: And he did so I think it has something to 377 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: do with that. He also had an issue with the 378 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: way that Jefferson dealt with George Washington, or like tried 379 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 2: to undermine George Washington, and Washington tr held up to 380 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: a pretty high He put him on a pedestal, not 381 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 2: as high as the pedestal he put Lincoln on, but 382 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 2: you know, he thought Washington was pretty great. 383 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: Well, that was a funny line in your show, was 384 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: talking about how, you know, he loved Lincoln but less 385 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: enamored with his neighbor Jefferson. 386 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 2: Jefferson hated Jefferson so much. And what's so funny is 387 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 2: that at Sagamore Hill, Roosevelt's Long Island estate, there is 388 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 2: a portrait of Jefferson hanging I think like on the 389 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: second or third floor. And as we were touring it, 390 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: I said to Tyler Coloberta, who's the education technician there, like, 391 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 2: what's what's this doing here? And he goes, you know, 392 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: I have no idea. 393 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: That's really funny. 394 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: He just needed some things, I know, I know it's 395 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: like somebody's fooling around here, somebody's playing a little trick. 396 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: That's pretty funny. So tell me about his obsession with Lincoln, 397 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: because it starts when he's pretty young, right. 398 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, so his father actually worked with Lincoln. 399 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: I get so confused about the times, like the fact 400 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: that he like his he kind of interacts with Lincoln 401 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: because of the lack of heir in some way, right, 402 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: But also like, doesn't he have like a Doctor Seuss 403 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: incident as well? 404 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 2: I feel like he does. 405 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: His trick is so strange in terms of how far it. 406 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: Expands, and basically it's like if something crazy happened in 407 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 2: the time when Theodore Roosevelt was alive, Theodore Roosevelt was 408 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: basically there or involved in some way. But start with 409 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 2: the Lincoln Lincoln. So his father worked with Lincoln on 410 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 2: this program that would okay, well, let me back up. 411 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: So Theodore Roosevelt's father did not go to war and 412 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 2: didn't sign up for the Civil War. He paid someone 413 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: to go in his place. Sure, and that is because yes, 414 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: or at least partially because well yes, but not really. 415 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: I think he probably still would have gone except that 416 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: his wife was a Southerner and her brothers were fighting 417 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: in the war, and she could not bear the idea 418 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: of her husband potentially fighting her brothers. And I think 419 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 2: she also did a little bit of the guilt trip, like, 420 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 2: you know, if you died, I've got all these kids, 421 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 2: and like, please don't go to war. So he didn't. 422 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 2: He paid someone to go in his place. You know, 423 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: there was probably a little bit of guilt there, sure, 424 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: And so what he ended up doing was working with 425 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: the Lincoln administration to create this program that would allow 426 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 2: soldiers to send money home to their families. And so 427 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 2: he actually traveled a lot during the war signing soldiers 428 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: up for that program. So he wasn't home a lot, 429 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 2: and when he wasn't home, TR's health took a nose dive, 430 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: which is a whole other thing. So he worked with 431 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 2: Lincoln in that capacity, and they even went to church 432 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: together one time. So Big Theodore and Little Theodore both 433 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: big Union guys not so much. And her mother and 434 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: sister were in the house as well, so it was 435 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 2: like a nation divided and a house divided. So it 436 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 2: was kind of a delicate time. So he really revered 437 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 2: Lincoln for that, and he also revered Lincoln for keeping 438 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: the country together in a time of great strife, and 439 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: so his when he was sworn in for the first time, 440 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: he was elected, so he assented to the presidency when 441 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 2: McKinley was assassinated, but then when he was elected of 442 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: his own right, his secretary of State, John Hay, gave 443 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 2: him a ring with Lincoln's hair in it. And John 444 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: Hay had been lincoln secretary of State as well, and 445 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: so he kept that his whole life, and it's at 446 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 2: Sagamore Hill, along with a portrait of Lincoln that's basically 447 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 2: looking down at his desk. So he really loved Lincoln. 448 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 2: He thought he was like the perfect person. 449 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: It is interesting to me that Teddy Roosevelt not only 450 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: took his presidency so seriously right, like he'd never take 451 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: a photo of himself in tennis whites, all these things. 452 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: But can you talk a little bit about how he 453 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: and Taft had a falling out because they were really 454 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: good friends. 455 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, they were extremely good friends, very very close, 456 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 2: and actually Taft was TIR's handpicked successor to the presidency, 457 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 2: and so as soon as they decided like Taft is 458 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 2: going to be the guy, taf didn't even want it. 459 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 2: Taft wanted to be a Supreme Court justice. It would 460 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 2: have been cool with that, but his wife was really 461 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: ambitious and she was like, you have to be president 462 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: and I was like fine, which I is kind of 463 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 2: indicative of how Taft was with everything, right. He kind 464 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: of let himself be bullied or pushed into things. And 465 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 2: so the minute that Tir decided this is going to 466 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,719 Speaker 2: be the guy, he starts sort of coaching him, you know, like, 467 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 2: don't let people see you golfing. It's bad form, you know. 468 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 2: I don't let people take a photo of me and 469 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 2: my tennis whites. And that's one of the things that 470 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 2: makes him a modern president was that he cared very 471 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 2: much about his image and the image he projected and 472 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 2: how people perceived him. And Taft didn't care. He just 473 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: wanted to golf and fish and do what he wanted 474 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: to do. And so he ascends to the presidency or 475 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: he's elected president. Tir goes off to hunt in Africa 476 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 2: for a year and he comes back and Taft is 477 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 2: sending him these letters where he's basically whining about how 478 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 2: he can't get anything done and he can't lose weight, 479 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: and you know, oh, Teddy come visit me, and Tir 480 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 2: is like, no, I don't think it's a good idea 481 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 2: for you know, a former president to come down, you 482 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: know and visit a current president or whatever. He's like, 483 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: it's just unseemly. Yeah, but I guess the real falling 484 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 2: out and there are people debate about why it happened, 485 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 2: but the people that the experts that I spoke with, 486 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 2: one of them at least thought that it was the 487 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: firing of Gifford Pinchot, who had been TR's chief of forestry, 488 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 2: that was the break. And then there were also issues 489 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: with US Steel and Taft went after US Steel, which 490 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: is a merger that Tier had approved, and it was 491 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 2: just like a whole mess, and then they were just 492 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: at each other's throats for the rest of TIR's life. Basically. 493 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 2: I feel like there was one time when they ran 494 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 2: into each other somewhere and they like shook hands and 495 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 2: kind of put on a show, but they were never 496 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: close again after that. 497 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: That's kind of crazy. Yeah, And I remember from the 498 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: show some of the like curses and man banter they 499 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: had for each other was kind of awful. 500 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 2: I mean awful but also awesome. 501 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like this old fangle, like. 502 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 2: There's nobody who's better at crafting an insult than Theodore Roosevelt. 503 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 2: And you know, Taft got some good ones. He called 504 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: him a puzzle whit and a fat head and brains 505 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 2: less than a guinea pig. And I mean he would 506 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: know because his children had so many guinea pigs. But 507 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 2: you know, his favorite or my favorite insult of his 508 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 2: is he called William Jennings Bryan, a professional yodeler, a 509 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: human trombone, which is like. 510 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: Human trombone's pretty great human trombone. 511 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 2: It's so good. So you know, I just look for 512 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 2: excuses to use that all the time. 513 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: There's so much good stuff there. We need to pause 514 00:24:45,720 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: more with Aaron after this break. So we're here with 515 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: Aaron McCarthy of Mental Floss talking about Teddy Roosevelt. So 516 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: I do want to talk about I'm sure you get 517 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: asked about the story all the time, the one about 518 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: the bear. But the thing I didn't realize was in 519 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: the chronology what had happened right before, right ca, Can 520 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: you talk a little. 521 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 2: Bit about that. Theodore Roosevelt went on this bear hunt, 522 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 2: and it was partially to sort of smooth feathers over 523 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 2: because he had had Booker T. Washington over to the 524 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: White House for dinner, and back then it was just 525 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 2: really not considered proper to have dinner with a black 526 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 2: man because it basically meant that you were saying that 527 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: this black man could marry your daughter. Tr just kind 528 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,239 Speaker 2: of didn't really care about that. Or when he went 529 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 2: out to send the invitation, he was like, he hesitated 530 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 2: for a minute, and then he was like, no, I 531 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: got to send it, like I'm ashamed. I can't believe 532 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 2: I hesitated. So he sends it. Booker T. Washington comes 533 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 2: for dinner. He has dinner with a whole Roosevelt family, 534 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: and it's like a working dinner too, but you know, 535 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: the kids are there and Edith is there, Tierre's wife. 536 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: And then the next day someone put it in the 537 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 2: paper and it was just chao chaos. I was gonna 538 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: I was going to use an expletive, but I was like, 539 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 2: what's the word that doesn't have give it? Yeah, it 540 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: was pretty bad. And actually it never died down, really, 541 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: I mean people kept bringing it up and bringing it 542 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: up and bringing it up long after Tir was out 543 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: of office, basically up until the day he died. 544 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: Did he feel like he'd made a mistake or how 545 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: did he know? 546 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: He was just comfortable with that. He never talked about 547 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 2: it again, and he never invited Booker T. Washington to 548 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 2: dinner ever again. So but you know, I afterwards, he 549 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 2: sent a letter that was basically like, I don't understand 550 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 2: why everyone's so upset, and you know, I'll have him 551 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: back to dinner anytime I want. And then he just 552 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 2: never did because I think he realized that politically it 553 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: was a little bit of a risky move. Sure, and 554 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: he was always very attuned to his image. Yeah, And 555 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 2: I mean, I I don't know if he cared so 556 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 2: much about his image, Like he was very progressive, you know, 557 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 2: like he fought against segregation in New York when he 558 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 2: was governor, and he certainly appointed a few African Americans 559 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: to prominent positions. But you know, it just became such 560 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: a thing that I think he was kind of like that. 561 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure it slowed policy and stuff. 562 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and you know he then had to go 563 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: smooth feathers is that a phrase? 564 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: I think? So? 565 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 2: And making things up for you know, So he went 566 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: down there to try to make amends a little bit. 567 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: So what do. He goes down to Mississippi. 568 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 2: He goes down to Mississippi on a bear hunt, and 569 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 2: they're led by this legendary bear hunter who supposedly has 570 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 2: killed thousands of bears. It's probably more like a few hundred, 571 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: but sure, thousands of bears, apparently. Tr from the start 572 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 2: was like, this is bad news because there are a 573 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 2: million people with us, and you know, this isn't really 574 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 2: a bear hunt. His perception of hunting was, you know, 575 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: you go out with a few dogs, or you go 576 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 2: out on your own, and and you know, you do 577 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: it that way. But there were a whole bunch of 578 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 2: people with them, and so he was like, this not 579 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 2: my version of it. But he went ahead and did 580 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 2: it anyway. It was at the invitation of the governor 581 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 2: of Mississippi or one of the senators. But so he 582 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 2: goes down there and he's everybody has shot a bear 583 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: but him. And so he comes back to the campsite 584 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 2: and they've tied up this kind of sickly bear that 585 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 2: has already killed some of the dogs, and they're like, 586 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 2: here's a bear for you to shoot, and Tierra was like, no, 587 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: I won't do it. Yeah, this isn't sportsmanlike and so 588 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 2: that's where the teddy bear comes from. Someone from a 589 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: toy company came to him and said, can we use 590 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: your name for this teddy bear? And he said sure, okay, 591 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 2: and then it became a thing. But I think what 592 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: most people don't necessarily realize is that it's not like 593 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: they let the bear go. Somebody else killed it with 594 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 2: a knife. Oh godd So I know it's like, oh. 595 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want to talk a little bit about 596 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: his family because I'm kind of fascinated by his sister 597 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: Baby and how he relied on her. Can can you 598 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that. 599 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: Basically, anytime he had a big decision to make, he 600 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: would bounce it off of her, which is wild, you know, 601 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: because he's the president and that was not really something 602 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 2: that was done at that time. But she was very 603 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 2: involved in his political career. She was always writing letters 604 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: for him and sort of making connections for him. And 605 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: I think his sister Karn also helped, but to a 606 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: lesser extent because Bamy was down in Washington and he 607 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 2: just relied on her and her judgment a lot, which 608 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 2: was rare for that time. 609 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think in the show you said he referred 610 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: to her as like the second White House. 611 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: Her house is the second White House, which is crazy. 612 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: Well, I want to hear just a few of the 613 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: fun stories that maybe you haven't gotten to talk about 614 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: on the show. 615 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's so much. Okay, So we've kind 616 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: of discussed a little bit about how the Roosevelts had 617 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 2: this insane menagerie of pets. So Emily Spinach obviously was 618 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: Alice's pet garter snake that she would carry around in 619 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: her purse. Yeah, low loves loves. But my absolute favorite 620 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: story about their pets is they had a bear, a 621 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 2: small black bear named Jonathan Edwards. The kids named it 622 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: Jonathan Edwards because of its calvinistic tendencies, but then also 623 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: I guess Edith was somehow related to Jonathan Edwards. But 624 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: they used to take it for walks. They had like 625 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: a leash, It was a chain basically, and they would 626 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: walk it with a club, which is a club. Yeah, 627 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 2: I mean I guess it would get out of hand, 628 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 2: you know, And I could see it getting out of 629 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 2: hand pretty quickly. And eventually they gave it to the 630 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: Bronx Zoo. And when they did, Tir was like the 631 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: whole household breathed a sigh of relief, except for the 632 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 2: dogs because the dogs love to chase it and it 633 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: would give them the thrill of the hunt. But yeah, 634 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 2: I mean they had so many, so many pets. He 635 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: got a hyena which he named Bill from some diplomat. 636 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: They had a hyena for a little while, so lion cubs, 637 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: a zebra, they had lion cubs. They had lion cubs 638 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 2: for a little bit. Yeah, it's crazy. A pig named Maud. 639 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: I know, the names are incredible, really good names. 640 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 2: They had a badger named Josiah. This was a gift 641 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: from a little girl who named it after her brother, 642 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: and they would just carry this badger around. And then 643 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: all the guinea pigs who had names like father O'Grady. 644 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: So they were really, really good at naming animals. And 645 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 2: I feel like if anybody out there needs an animal name, 646 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 2: just look up what tr named his pets and go 647 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 2: with it, because they were really good at naming animals. 648 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 2: So that's one story. 649 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: It's funny. I don't know if I told you this 650 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: or not, but my granddad was one of the heads 651 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: of forestry in India and he had a similar not 652 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: entirely similar, but also ended up shooting animals because yeah, 653 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: you do in the jungles. But but also there was 654 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: a bear that couldn't give milk and wish hot my grandfather, 655 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: but they found because it was attacking like villagers or something, 656 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: and they found the three cubs and so my granddad 657 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: brought him home. And so my mom has no fear 658 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: of animals because she had like a pet bear like 659 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: as a kid. They didn't have a club to walk 660 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: around with, but certainly played with the. 661 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 2: Fi Oh my god, I can't imagine, like cats are 662 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: about as wild as I can get. Yeah, it just 663 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 2: seems a little intense. Yeah. 664 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: One of the things I had no idea about until 665 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: I heard your podcast was that Roosevelt lived in North 666 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: Dakota for a while. So why does he end up there? 667 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he I believe in eighteen eighty three he 668 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: went out to the Dakotas to go hunting for bison. 669 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: So he basically had a list of big game animals 670 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: he wanted to hunt and get rid of of, you know, yeah, yolo, 671 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 2: And so he went out to the Dakotas to hunt 672 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 2: bison and he gets one. But while he's out there, 673 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: he is staying with these cattle ranchers, and so he's 674 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 2: having discussions with them and he decides he's going to 675 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: invest in a cattle ranch pretty impulsively. What does he 676 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: know about cattle ranching, literally nothing, but he's like, whatever, 677 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: I'll just throw some money at this and become an investor. 678 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: So he gets this cattle ranch, and then in eighteen 679 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 2: eighty four, his wife and his mother died on the 680 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 2: same day, which was horribly traumatic, as you might imagine 681 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: his first wife, Alice, who is Alice's mother. And so 682 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,959 Speaker 2: he goes back to the New York State Assembly and 683 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 2: he's got kind of like a rough last term because 684 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: the Mugwumps, which was a faction of the Republican Party, 685 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: wanted him to support the Democratic nominee for governor and 686 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 2: not the Republican nominee for governor because the Republican nominee 687 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: was super corrupt, and tr made some comment that ended 688 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 2: up getting out into the press and it was like 689 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: a whole big mess. And so after his term was done, 690 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: he was like, this isn't for me. I'm going to 691 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 2: move to the Dakotas and become a cattle rancher. And 692 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: so he just like up and moved to the Dakotas. 693 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 2: He bought another ranch that was more solitary. The first 694 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 2: ranch he invested in was called the Maltese Cross Ranch, 695 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: and it was sort of on a thoroughfare out of town. 696 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: I mean as much as a thoroughfare as you can 697 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: have in the Dakota's side time, but you know, it 698 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: was pretty People would come by, and you know, he 699 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to talk to anybody, you know, 700 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: kind of just want to be by myself. And so 701 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 2: he heard about this other parcel of land that was 702 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 2: thirty five miles away from Medoro, which was near where 703 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 2: his other cabin was, and so he bought the rights 704 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 2: to that land for four hundred bucks, built a cabin 705 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 2: out there, and he lived out there off and on 706 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: for a few years. He was never like fully fully 707 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: out there, but he did intend to go out there 708 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 2: and stay there permanently. It just didn't work out that 709 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 2: way because people were still pulling him back to New York. 710 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: You know. 711 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 2: Like when he moved to the Dakotas, he left his 712 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: daughter Alice with his sister baby, and so he would 713 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: go back to see her and sort of take part 714 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: in political things and then he met or reconnected with 715 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 2: his childhood sweetheart, Edith Kurmit Crow, who had become a 716 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 2: second wife, and so he was back and forth a lot. 717 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 2: So he didn't move out there permanently, but he was 718 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 2: out there for quite some time. And I think one 719 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 2: of the funniest stories he bought this buckskin suit, fringed 720 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: buckskin suit, and you know, I mean his thinking was, oh, 721 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 2: it's really soft and comfortable, and you know, you can 722 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 2: wear it and move through the brush and it's really quiet. 723 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 2: But people in the Dakota's didn't really wear that kind 724 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: of stage. And so he shows up in this get 725 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 2: up pretending to be a cowboy basically, and they're like, 726 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 2: this dude from New York. And he also had glasses, 727 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 2: which at that time people took as a sign of weakness, 728 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 2: so they would pick on him and then he would 729 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 2: just pop them right in the face and they would 730 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 2: realize like, oh, well, I shouldn't have done that. And 731 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 2: he was like a boss man out there, and so 732 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: he was never quite I think the cowboy that he 733 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: portray himself to be. But he also wasn't a person 734 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 2: who was afraid to get dirty. So he would spend 735 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: thirteen hours out in the saddle with the rest of 736 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 2: his men and work really hard, just like just like 737 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 2: you know, the men. So they really respected him. They 738 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: came to respect him, not at first, but well efectually. 739 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: That's one of the questions I had, is like where 740 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: does he feel most comfortable, because he's obviously like he 741 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: grows up with well, he goes to an ivyley school, 742 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: he's in the army, he's like, you know, like he's 743 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: in so many different scenes. Like where is he most 744 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: at home? 745 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 2: I mean, I think he always felt the most at 746 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 2: home in nature. You kind of see a pattern when 747 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 2: any tragedy occurs in his life where he works himself 748 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,879 Speaker 2: to the point of exhaustion, I think, basically trying to 749 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 2: keep himself from thinking, and then he just goes and 750 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 2: he retreats to nature and that kind of heals him 751 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 2: after every major death in his life. That's the pattern 752 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 2: he follows. So I think he always felt most at home, 753 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 2: you know, when he was like in the dirt and 754 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 2: the mud, you know, doing some kind of physical activity. 755 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: One of the questions gave throughout to me is he 756 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: wanted to know is it true that tr once climbed 757 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: the matterhorn out of spite? True, So what's that strue? 758 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: I saw that question, I was like, what. 759 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. So on his first honeymoon, tr heard some British 760 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 2: climbers in the lobby of the hotel he was staying in, 761 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: basically like bragging about it. And so he just decided 762 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 2: that he was going to summit the matterhorn to show 763 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 2: them that he could climb just as well as any 764 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 2: brit could. And he did it. And the matter horn 765 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 2: is like, is like a really difficult like many people 766 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 2: have died. And of course he had guides, but he 767 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 2: was pretty much an amateur, and he was just like, 768 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: I'm doing it force the personality exactly. And you know 769 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,720 Speaker 2: what's wild is that he was still having asthma attacks 770 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 2: at this time. I mean, he kind of created this 771 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 2: myth that he defeated his asthma, which is not true. 772 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 2: He suffered from asthma for the rest of his life, 773 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 2: for his whole life. But you know, he basically was 774 00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: just like, I'm not going to let this stop me. 775 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: I'm not going to show that I'm weak. Just the 776 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 2: stories of his physical exertion make me. It's inspiring and 777 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 2: also exhausting. He would go to Maine and just like 778 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 2: climb mountains and moccasins when he lost his boot in 779 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 2: a stream, which is like not an easy thing to do, 780 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,919 Speaker 2: you know, or they he'd hunt caribou for thirty six 781 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 2: miles in the snow with just like a blanket. He 782 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 2: was a crazy guy. Yeah, it's crazy. 783 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: Well. One of the things I always hear Doris Kurnce 784 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 1: Goodwin say about him is that like he wanted to 785 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: be the baby at every you know, risks or whatever, 786 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: and the you know, I feel like he was always 787 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: the center of attention. How did he fare with being 788 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 1: president and then not being president? 789 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 2: Oh? Not well, not well at all. One of the 790 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 2: experts that I spoke with, Clay Jenkinson, who's the founder 791 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 2: of the Theodore Roosevelt Center, was basically, just like after 792 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 2: he left the presidency, he was the most unpleasant guy 793 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 2: because he just he felt like he should be the guy. 794 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 2: What happened was in his second term, early on he said, 795 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 2: I'm not going to run for reelection for a third 796 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 2: term because people will be tired of me, and you know, 797 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 2: two terms is enough. And it's like a very stupid 798 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 2: thing to do, because people loved him and he could 799 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 2: have had a third term, but instead, you know, he 800 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 2: said early on that he wasn't going to run again, 801 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 2: and so at the end of it he was like, nope, 802 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 2: I said, I wasn't going to run again. I'm done. 803 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 2: And then you know, Taft kind of didn't keep up 804 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 2: his reforms in conservation, he went after us steel. I 805 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: think he also sort of apologized to the Colombian government 806 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 2: for helping Panama pull off a coup so that the 807 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 2: Panama Canal could happen. He was just furious, furious, and 808 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: he really hated Woodrow Wilson like so much. His entrance 809 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 2: into the nineteen twelve presidential race is what led to 810 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,720 Speaker 2: Woodrow Wilson becoming president. And then he just hated Woodrow 811 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 2: Wilson for being a pacifist. So you know, he just 812 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 2: was bitter, bitter, so bitter, so mad. Yeah, he just 813 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 2: really wanted to be president. You know, he always thought 814 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 2: that he could do a better job, and I mean 815 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 2: maybe he could have. 816 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I liked that you refer in one of 817 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: your shows to his political style is big stick energy, 818 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: which I thought was really funny. I feel like that 819 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:19,959 Speaker 1: belongs on a T shirt. 820 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't take credit for that. My researcher, Michael 821 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 2: Salgarolo came up with that and he was like, please 822 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 2: use that, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna so, 823 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 2: thanks Michael. 824 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: He wins a Nobel along the way, right. 825 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,240 Speaker 2: Yes, he was the first American to win a Nobel 826 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 2: prize of any kind, and it was partly for his 827 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 2: mediation between the Japanese and the Russians during the Russo 828 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 2: Japanese War, which some people call World War Zero because 829 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 2: it was like an early mechanized war and they were 830 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 2: killing each other in huge numbers. It had the potential 831 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 2: to really sort of unsettle things in the Pacific, and 832 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: so he stepped in and he was sort of a 833 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 2: neutral mediator, sort of not There's this one great scene 834 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 2: where he calls the Russian diplomat over to Sagamore Hill 835 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 2: to tell him how he thinks he should negotiate, and 836 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 2: he's playing tennis, and he doesn't stop playing tennis while 837 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 2: he's talking to this Russian diplomat, you know, like in 838 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 2: breaks from the game. He comes over and he says, well, 839 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 2: here's what I think you should do. Here's what I'd recommend, 840 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: and then he goes back to play. Some of the 841 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 2: tennis and then he comes back and this went on 842 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 2: for like ninety minutes, and I have to imagine what 843 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 2: the Russian diplomat was thinking. He was like, this guy's crazy. 844 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 2: That's amazing, But you know that was his style. 845 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I do want to hear it. Do you 846 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 1: know anything about that Doctor Sue's story. 847 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 2: I do so. I can't remember the exact date. I 848 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 2: feel like it was nineteen eighteen, but Theodore Roosevelt went 849 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 2: to this small town where he was going to hand 850 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 2: out awards to boy scouts who had sold one thousand 851 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 2: dollars worth of war bonds, and Theodore gaise El doctor Seuss, 852 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 2: was one of those boys. All the boys are standing 853 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,799 Speaker 2: up on stage, there are ten of them. Tier only 854 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 2: has nine medals. Somebody messed up, and so you know, 855 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 2: he's pinning medals on the lapels of all these kids 856 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 2: and he gets to Theodore guys all he doesn't have 857 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,959 Speaker 2: a medal, and he says, what's this boy doing here? 858 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 2: The boy scouts master, which is didn't say anything. He 859 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 2: just like ran guys all off stage. And then apparently 860 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 2: that gave doctor Seuss stage fright for the rest of 861 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 2: his life. 862 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: That's incredible. I know and horrifying. 863 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like it makes sense. It would be 864 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 2: so humiliating. And you know, it wasn't his fault, wasn't 865 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 2: TR's fault. It was just just a thing that happened, 866 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 2: and uh and there were there were implications. 867 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: So tell me, have you been inspired by Teddy Roosevelt 868 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: to change your life in any way or have you 869 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: taken any sort of uh inspiration from all these stories? 870 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 2: I really want to try to be more productive and 871 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,399 Speaker 2: sort of block out my time. Like I'm a big 872 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 2: believer in a to do list, but apparently that's not enough. 873 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 2: That doesn't help you be productive enough. So I think 874 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, I'm going to start blocking out my 875 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 2: time and seeing how how that goes. Or maybe I'll 876 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 2: take up Judo. We'll see. 877 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: I like that. But no carrying a badger around. 878 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 2: Or no, no, no, no, no, Chuck no. I mean 879 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 2: my cats they're about all I can handle. I mean, 880 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 2: Pearl kind of looks like a badger, So Pearl Woolfie, 881 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 2: it looks like a badger. 882 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: So Ada tell everyone where they can find the show 883 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: and what episode they should start with. 884 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,359 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I personally think you should start from 885 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 2: tir versus Weakness, which is the first one because it 886 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,479 Speaker 2: kind of lays the groundwork for everything that comes next. 887 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 2: But in terms of my favorite episode, Tier versus Time 888 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 2: is a big one. I like Tier versus Language just 889 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 2: because it gets into the whole simplified spelling debacle, which 890 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,959 Speaker 2: is one of my favorite stories of all time. Tear 891 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 2: versus Corruption is really fun because I think you get 892 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 2: a really good sense of the unusual style he used 893 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 2: to take on corruption. They're all kind of close to 894 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 2: my heart, to be honest, and. 895 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: It's crazy everything he's involved in, from like everything football, 896 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: and I. 897 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 2: Mean, like there's so much we couldn't even get into, 898 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 2: you know, like I could go forever. But you know, 899 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 2: every time I said, like let's add an episode, no, no, no, no, 900 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 2: Yler and Dylan were like, Aaron, you're crazy stuff. Tear 901 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 2: versus Nature is I don't know, they're all fun. They're 902 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 2: all fun in their own ways, and I mean, I think, 903 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 2: what's children. I can't to make the choos, But you know, 904 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 2: I think what's good about this is that you know, 905 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 2: you read the biography is about tr and everybody kind 906 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 2: of focuses on the thing that they want to focus 907 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,359 Speaker 2: on doing a podcast like this in this format has 908 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,800 Speaker 2: kind of allowed us to drop in and out of 909 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 2: his life, to feature different things, and I think it's 910 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 2: actually allowed us to get into some of the not 911 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 2: so great stuff, you know, and explore that in a 912 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 2: way that I hope is enlightening and thoughtful. So you know, 913 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 2: we'll see people respond. 914 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: It's a really excellent series and really really fun. And 915 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,919 Speaker 1: you can get History Versus for Mental Class everywhere from 916 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: iHeart to Spotify, the Stitcher to wherever you get your podcasts. 917 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,760 Speaker 1: But what's next for the series. 918 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 2: So we are looking at an explorer for the second season. 919 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 2: I don't want to say who, I don't want to 920 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 2: spoil it, but not the explorer you're probably thinking of. 921 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: Huh. 922 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 2: So that's fun. And then for the third season, I 923 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 2: have an author i'd like to feature. Awesome, and we'll see. 924 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 2: And there's kind of a Theodore Roosevelt connection to all 925 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,319 Speaker 2: to both of those nice I mean, of course there is. 926 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like he was involved in literally everything. 927 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: Well, Aaron McCarthy, thank you so much for being here. 928 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 1: That's it for Part Time Genius this week. We'll be 929 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: back next week with an episode on elevators. I think 930 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: it's going to be great, I promise, And in the 931 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: meantime from Will Gabe Lolami, thanks so much for listening. 932 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,239 Speaker 2: Part Time Genius is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 933 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 934 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite show.