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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jameel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard

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Speaker 2: podcast and unbothered production.

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Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.

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Speaker 3: Picture.

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Speaker 1: South Africa twenty.

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Speaker 2: Ten, a youngest girl from Detroit is spending over a

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Speaker 2: month in South Africa covering the World Cup. On top

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Speaker 2: of covering one of the world's biggest sporting events, she

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Speaker 2: is drinking amazing wine and even playing with and prison

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Speaker 2: posing with lions.

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Speaker 1: Now, black folks already know which y'all I think, and

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Speaker 1: I get it.

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Speaker 2: But as I was living my best life overseas, the

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Speaker 2: biggest move of free agency history is happening in America.

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Speaker 3: The answer to the question everybody wants to know, Lebron,

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Speaker 3: what's your decision.

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Speaker 1: In this fall?

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Speaker 3: Man?

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Speaker 4: Very tough and this farm will take my talents to

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Speaker 4: South Beach and joining Miamileague.

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Speaker 2: Fifteen years ago this week, Lebron James shocked a lot

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Speaker 2: of people with his decision to go to Miami, which

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Speaker 2: subsequently kickstarted an unforeseen player empowerment movement and also represented

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Speaker 2: one of the rare times in Lebron's career where he

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Speaker 2: made a major misstep. The decision, in hindsight, is no

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Speaker 2: less crazy than it was fifteen years ago there was

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Speaker 2: Lebron at this boys and girls club in Greenwich, Connecticut,

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Speaker 2: which didn't really make a whole lot of sense. Sure,

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Speaker 2: the decision raised approximately two million for that boys and

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Speaker 2: girls club, but it feels like it's worth pointing out

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Speaker 2: that the median yearly household income for Greenwich is one

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Speaker 2: hundred and thirty six thousand dollars a year, as it

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Speaker 2: is one of the wealthiest cities in America. Now I'm

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Speaker 2: saying that every kid there is growing up like old

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Speaker 2: boy in Silver Spoons. Google if you don't get that reference.

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Speaker 2: But let's just say you couldn't exactly call Greenwich and

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Speaker 2: underserved community. If you think I'm being a hater. Even

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Speaker 2: Lebron eventually admitted that his turning his free agency destination

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Speaker 2: into a made for television drama probably wasn't the best.

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Speaker 1: Did you know?

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Speaker 4: If I could look back on it, I would probably

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Speaker 4: change a lot of it. You know, the fact that

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Speaker 4: having the whole TV special and people getting opportunity to

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Speaker 4: watch me make a decision on where I want to play,

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Speaker 4: I would probably change that, you know, you know, because

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Speaker 4: I can now look and see if I if the

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Speaker 4: shoe was on the other foot, and I was a fan,

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Speaker 4: and I was very passionate about one player and he

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Speaker 4: decided to leave, you know, I would be upset to,

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Speaker 4: you know, by the way that he handled it.

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Speaker 2: That aside, Lebron leaving Cleveland looks even better through today's lens.

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Speaker 2: Lebron was a mere twenty five years old then, and

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Speaker 2: at that stage of his career, Lebron was fighting for

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Speaker 2: his life in the Eastern Conference against the Celtics and

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Speaker 2: also the Orlando Magic. Despite winning the MVP consecutive season,

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Speaker 2: that playoff series against the Celtics in twenty ten was jarring.

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Speaker 2: In Game five against the Celtics in the playoffs, Lebron

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Speaker 2: had fifteen points and missed eleven of fourteen shots from

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Speaker 2: the field. In Game six, Lebron had twenty seven, but

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Speaker 2: he missed thirteen of his twenty one shots, and Boston

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Speaker 2: took the series convincingly, But they also sent the message

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Speaker 2: that the pathway to.

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Speaker 1: The finals went through Boston.

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Speaker 2: Now, there was no way that Lebron was going to

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Speaker 2: get past the Celtics without some major help. And let's

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Speaker 2: be honest, that major help wasn't coming to Cleveland. Lebron

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Speaker 2: created a sweepstakes for his services. Unlike any we've ever

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Speaker 2: seen in NBA history. Lebron interviewed multiple teams that summer

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Speaker 2: of twenty ten. Teams were clearing cap space, selling fish

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Speaker 2: dinners in the church basement, doing whatever they had to

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Speaker 2: do to get it right for the king. One of

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Speaker 2: Lebron's most notable suitors was the New York Knicks. After

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Speaker 2: nine straight losing seasons, they decided to go all in

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Speaker 2: on landing Lebron. They tanked, they cleared cap space, and

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Speaker 2: according to reports, they even went so far as to

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Speaker 2: solicit the services of Carmela and Tony soprano Tony.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad we moved to New York.

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Speaker 3: Life.

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Speaker 1: It's so much better now. Yeah. Here if you have

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Speaker 1: a witness protection program. Now, we just got to find

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Speaker 1: a place for your friend Lebron to live. What's he like?

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Speaker 1: Who is a modern guy? What he respects tradition?

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Speaker 3: Do something classy on the East Side.

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Speaker 1: Was it big enough gonna be entertaining a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: In New York?

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Speaker 1: It's very expensive. Oh, that's not going to be a problem.

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Speaker 3: You gotta find something magnificent.

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Speaker 1: Something There's nothing in the world like in one of

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Speaker 1: a kind like he is. Well, here's a place, he says,

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Speaker 1: it gets really loud. Then take a look. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's you.

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Speaker 5: That's gonna be perfect for Allow me to reintroduce myself.

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Speaker 6: My name is.

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Speaker 3: I.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to my friend Pablo Torre for unearthing this

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Speaker 2: video of James Gandelfeti and Edie Falco trying to recruit

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Speaker 2: Lebron on behalf of James Dolan and the Knicks, who

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Speaker 2: supposedly presented this to Lebron during his interview with the team.

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Speaker 2: Yet this is how the Knicks wound up with Amars

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Speaker 2: Stotttermeier instead. The last thing legacy of the decision is

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Speaker 2: that it gave other star players a blueprint for how

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Speaker 2: to best use their leverage. Now, granted, not every star

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Speaker 2: has Lebron's power, but his decision seemed to give many

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Speaker 2: of them who did have some leverage the courage to

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Speaker 2: orchestrate which teams they wanted to play for and most importantly,

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Speaker 2: who they wanted to play with. Now, this is something

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Speaker 2: that the owners never wanted to see. Cleveland owner Dan

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Speaker 2: Gilbert gave us one of the great sports crashouts of

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Speaker 2: all time when he penned a letter in comic says

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Speaker 2: vowing to win a championship before Lebron did, which didn't happen,

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Speaker 2: by the way, and he essentially channeled his inner Sealy

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Speaker 2: from the color Purple and Maximus Decimus Meridius old two

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Speaker 2: finger pointing until you do right by me, I shall

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Speaker 2: have vengeance in this life or the next.

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Speaker 1: Head asked.

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Speaker 2: The NBA's most recent collective bargaining agreement shows the owners

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Speaker 2: never forgot nor forgave Lebron's power move. Now it is

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Speaker 2: it's harder for superstars to link up like the Avengers,

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Speaker 2: and on the off chance that they do, it's now

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Speaker 2: difficult for them to keep superstar heavy teams together without

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Speaker 2: a significant financial penalty. The decision, though, should be remembered

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Speaker 2: as a shape shifter. After Lebron went to Miami, Carmelo

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Speaker 2: Anthony maneuvered his way to the Knicks. Kevin Durant left

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Speaker 2: ok See for Gonda State and has since pulled similar

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Speaker 2: moves to get to Brooklyn, Phoenix and now Houston. Kyrie

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Speaker 2: Irving asked for a trade and went to the Celtics.

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Speaker 2: Kawhi left San Antonio for the Clippers and put the

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Speaker 2: pressure on the Clippers, who also signed Paul George. Lebron's

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Speaker 2: decision gave every superstar in the league something very powerful,

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Speaker 2: the audacity.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jamel Hill and I approved this message.

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited for my guest today as she is

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Speaker 2: a friend and someone I can say that from the

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Speaker 2: first time I saw her, I knew she was going

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Speaker 2: to be a star. We worked together at ESPN and

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Speaker 2: she's probably one of the leading voices when it comes

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Speaker 2: to women's sports. When she was at ESPN and she

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Speaker 2: uncovered one of the most heartwarming, gut wrenching and vulnerable

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Speaker 2: stories ever in sports. She has since turned it into

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Speaker 2: a book and there are rumblings it could be a movie.

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Speaker 2: She's smart, ferocious, and one of the funniest people that

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Speaker 2: I know. Coming up on politics, the incredible and wonderful

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Speaker 2: Sarah's thang, Sarah, I really appreciate you joining me here

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Speaker 2: on Spolitics. Going to start the podcast with a question

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Speaker 2: I ask every guest that appears on politics and that

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Speaker 2: is named an athlete or a moment that made you

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Speaker 2: love sports.

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Speaker 6: I knew this was coming, and even if I didn't

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Speaker 6: know what was coming, I would already have my answer

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Speaker 6: ready because it's of course Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in the Bulls.

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Speaker 6: I grew up in Chicago in the nineties when the

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Speaker 6: Bulls were literally everything, and I talk about it a lot, actually,

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Speaker 6: because my parents aren't really into sports, and that's surprising

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Speaker 6: for a lot of people. They always assumed that I

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Speaker 6: had a dad or a grand bookcause everyone sexist about it.

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Speaker 6: And my mom definitely likes sports more than my dad does,

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Speaker 6: but neither of them watch much of anything except for tennis.

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Speaker 6: We were a big tennis family. My sister I both

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Speaker 6: played Usta. We all read Tennis magazine, so we would

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Speaker 6: watch tennis at home and other than that nothing. And

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Speaker 6: so if not from my obsession with basketball and Jordan

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Speaker 6: and then the Bulls taking over Chicago back then when

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Speaker 6: I was just a kid, I don't think I would

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Speaker 6: have this job.

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Speaker 3: I really don't.

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Speaker 2: So how did you get the sports bug if it

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Speaker 2: wasn't really a family project?

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Speaker 6: Being an athlete, being six feet tall when I was twelve,

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Speaker 6: and being awkward in every way except for when it

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Speaker 6: came to sports. Yeah, my sister and I just started

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Speaker 6: playing in the backyard from a very young age any

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Speaker 6: sport possible. And the nice thing is my parents are

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Speaker 6: really into playing sports and being active.

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Speaker 3: They just didn't care about watching it.

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Speaker 6: So we played tennis, we played golf, we played softball,

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Speaker 6: baseball in the backyard, whatever.

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Speaker 7: We could do.

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Speaker 3: And I mean it was a lot easier back then, Jameel.

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Speaker 6: They couldn't just, you know, put us in front of

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Speaker 6: a TV or a phone and assume that we would

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Speaker 6: keep ourselves busy video gaming or something. We actually had

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Speaker 6: to go outside and make something of ourselves, find adventure.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and look at you. Let me guess you had

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Speaker 2: to walk ten miles of the mill in the snow.

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Speaker 3: No, not so much.

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Speaker 1: You can grow up in Chicago, so snow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure a part of some of your escapades

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Speaker 2: outside at some point. You know, obviously this has all

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Speaker 2: lved you to have this wonderful career in sports. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you ever saw author on the table

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Speaker 2: for you, but you are an author. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: hold up your book, your new book which is called

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Speaker 2: Runs in the Family. You and Delon McCullough have collaborated

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Speaker 2: to do this book and this is based off a

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Speaker 2: story that you worked on at ESPN. I have read

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Speaker 2: the book. It's really phenomenal and just very touching, you know,

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Speaker 2: get you get plenty of feels and so many ups

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Speaker 2: and downs that you take us through through the journey

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Speaker 2: through this family and the search for identity.

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Speaker 1: But you know, this is actually going to be a

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Speaker 1: really tricky interview for.

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Speaker 2: Me because there is such a great plot twist in

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Speaker 2: this book that I'm going to try not to talk

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Speaker 2: about it, because.

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Speaker 3: Most people do talk about it.

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Speaker 6: And so we're kind of okay with that because it

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Speaker 6: did come out, yeah, like during the E sixty and

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Speaker 6: the story a couple of years ago. It was out

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Speaker 6: there enough that we're not trying to be too precious

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Speaker 6: about it. And in part because I think there's so

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Speaker 6: much to the book beyond just the twist that if

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Speaker 6: it's out, I'm like, there's still a million reasons to

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Speaker 6: read it. Even but like if you do, you know,

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Speaker 6: want to warn your listeners about spoilers, there's certainly some

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Speaker 6: people that want to protect themselves from knowing the twists

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Speaker 6: before they read it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean the plot twist that You're right, it

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Speaker 2: is so much larger than that, as I mentioned, family, identity,

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Speaker 2: chosen family, like all these other themes that are part

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Speaker 2: of this book. But it's such a great plot twist

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Speaker 2: because it gives you even more of the feels that

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Speaker 2: you already have. So that I'm going to try, even

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Speaker 2: though it is I don't care. I'm going to try

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Speaker 2: not to totally spoil it, even though I have so

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Speaker 2: many questions about that. But we're just gonna start really

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Speaker 2: at the genesis of this. How did you come across

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Speaker 2: this story and what was it about it that made

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Speaker 2: you say that's the one.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, my friend Skip Tremontana actually played football with Dylan

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Speaker 6: at MIAMIV, Ohio, and a handful of years ago, we

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Speaker 6: were having a beer and he was like, man, I

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Speaker 6: just heard from this old teammate of mine with the

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Speaker 6: craziest story. And Skip told me the story in less

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Speaker 6: than five minutes and I already had chills and was

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Speaker 6: like on the verge of tears, and I was like WHOA.

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Speaker 3: Like, first of all, is this real? Are we sure

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Speaker 3: that this is real?

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Speaker 6: And brought it to ESPN and it was like an

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Speaker 6: instant Yes, they did want proof that it was real.

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Speaker 6: We did have to make sure that there was actual

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Speaker 6: tests and what not to make sure that the twist

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Speaker 6: was real.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean it was a no brainer for me.

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Speaker 6: It really does sound like a made up story, and

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Speaker 6: telling it the first time for the E sixty and

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Speaker 6: the written piece was such a joy. I had so

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Speaker 6: many nerves about whether I was going to screw it

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Speaker 6: up because it is such a good story.

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Speaker 3: I was like, if it doesn't do well, it's my fault,

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Speaker 3: it's not the story's ball.

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Speaker 6: And then it went viral and it had such a

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Speaker 6: great response that it gave me a more confidence to

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Speaker 6: take on the book.

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Speaker 3: Because to your point about being an.

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Speaker 6: Author, I actually would have believed you way more if

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Speaker 6: you said that when I was a kid than sports reporter,

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Speaker 6: because I didn't decide to get into sports until my twenties.

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Speaker 3: I went to Cornell as an English major.

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Speaker 6: I always wanted to be an actress or comedian or writer,

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Speaker 6: and so I grew up always writing. I have like

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Speaker 6: stacks of these little fake white books at home where

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Speaker 6: you could draw your own cover and then write a

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Speaker 6: story inside, and so I've been writing since I was

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Speaker 6: a kid. It's the sports stuff that was the real

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Speaker 6: twist in my early twenties.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I have always wanted.

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Speaker 6: To write a book, and when the opportunity to write

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Speaker 6: this one came up, I had to sort of put

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Speaker 6: aside the imposter syndrome of like, am I an author

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Speaker 6: and get after it and I'm so glad I did.

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Speaker 2: And to give people the bare bones of the story,

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Speaker 2: the shell of it, it is that Dylan McCullough, as

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Speaker 2: you said, he was a standout at Miami of Ohio,

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Speaker 2: grew up. You know, he had a bit of a

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Speaker 2: loving childhood, but a rough one, you know, let's be

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Speaker 2: honest about that.

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Speaker 1: And he was adopted.

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Speaker 2: And even though his mother kind of drops this bombshell,

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Speaker 2: don't have to tell him he's adopted when he was

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Speaker 2: what six seven years old? Yeah, he was seven years old,

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Speaker 2: and she tells him that he's adopted, and because of

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Speaker 2: the kind of family they come.

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Speaker 1: From, this is not something that they openly discussed.

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Speaker 2: And years and years later, like thirty years later, you know,

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Speaker 2: the subject kind of arises again of him trying to

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Speaker 2: find out who his birth mother is. And so there

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Speaker 2: is a considerable portion of this book about him finding

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Speaker 2: his birth mother. He does, and one of the surprises

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Speaker 2: is who his father is because he finally is able

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Speaker 2: to fill in that gap. Now, because this story is involving,

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Speaker 2: you know, adoption and these emotional issues, how did you

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Speaker 2: go about winning Delan's trust.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I had to win it the first

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Speaker 6: time around, But there was a big leap between the

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Speaker 6: research and the conversations I had for the first story,

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Speaker 6: which was only about five thousand words, and then the

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Speaker 6: second time around, which is ninety five thousand words or

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Speaker 6: whatever it is, right, the depth of conversation that we

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Speaker 6: have to have to really tell a complete story was

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Speaker 6: way different. And then talking to all of his family members.

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Speaker 6: We spoke to a few for the first story, but

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Speaker 6: really getting more of his friends and family to speak

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Speaker 6: to me and kind of be able to have enough

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Speaker 6: of the anecdotes and stories and timeline to tell his

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Speaker 6: whole life. I think the first time around, I proved

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Speaker 6: to them that I wanted to write the story with

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Speaker 6: the intention of bringing out the joy in it, while

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Speaker 6: also acknowledging that there were challenges along the way, And

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Speaker 6: I think in the writing of the book and over

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Speaker 6: the course of the process, I made it clear that

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Speaker 6: it wasn't about sensationalizing their lives. It was about humanizing

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Speaker 6: every person in the story, even folks that might come

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Speaker 6: across a little bit villainous. They're multi dimensional. There are

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Speaker 6: reasons for their decision making. There are reasons how they

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Speaker 6: got to be who they are. And that's the big

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Speaker 6: theme of the book is what a tremendous opportunity deal

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Speaker 6: and affords us to look hard at nature versus nurture,

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Speaker 6: DNA and blood versus emotional DNA, the lessons and messages

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Speaker 6: that our family passes on by choice, because we don't

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Speaker 6: get to choose our DNA and our blood, but we

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Speaker 6: certainly can decide if we want to carry on things

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Speaker 6: that our family has perpetuated for generations, or if we

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Speaker 6: think something should end with us, whether that's generational trauma

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Speaker 6: or that's the kind of thing you mentioned, which is

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Speaker 6: we don't talk about that sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: If you decide to be a.

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Speaker 6: Family that doesn't talk about tough things, what does that

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Speaker 6: mean for the next generation and the generations after that?

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Speaker 3: Or can you be someone who says, I think it.

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Speaker 6: Ends with me, and I want to be open with

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Speaker 6: my kids, and I want to talk about things and

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Speaker 6: process things and deal with trauma in a different way.

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Speaker 6: And so having that opportunity to look at someone that

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Speaker 6: so clearly illustrates to us what he got from blood

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Speaker 6: and DNA and what he got from the people who

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Speaker 6: raised him and the family who chose him for me

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Speaker 6: meant that I wanted to do a lot of research.

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Speaker 3: So I read a lot of books about adoption.

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Speaker 6: Generational trauma, psychology, epigenetics, emotional DNA, all these things, and

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Speaker 6: I think it became clear to them in our conversations

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Speaker 6: that I wanted to truly understand every one of them

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Speaker 6: and how they got to be who they are and

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Speaker 6: what made them Because Javell, I'm sure you remember this

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Speaker 6: from writing your book, and I thought about you a

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Speaker 6: lot as I was working on this, because I finally

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Speaker 6: really better understood because I had you on my show

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Speaker 6: back to talk about your book, and I remember asking

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Speaker 6: you about what it felt like to write about your

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Speaker 6: family and the tough stuff and both getting permission and

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Speaker 6: getting grace from them, and wanting to share your life

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Speaker 6: in a way that might be hard for some of

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Speaker 6: them to receive. And I had to have those same

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Speaker 6: conversations with some of Dylan's family members, and I needed

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Speaker 6: to make it clear to them I'm doing the work

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Speaker 6: to really understand how the things that came before you

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Speaker 6: and around you made you who you are and affected

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Speaker 6: the decisions that you made in the choices that you

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Speaker 6: made and to reflect them without judgment and to tell

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Speaker 6: the story about them with grace. And that was really

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Speaker 6: important to me, because it's not as interesting of a

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Speaker 6: story and it's not as useful of a story for

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Speaker 6: people reading it if it's very.

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Speaker 3: Black and white. This is good, this is bad. Judge

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Speaker 3: this judge that I wanted to tell his story while

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Speaker 3: allowing everyone else to read it and ask themselves how

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Speaker 3: am I handling what I've been handed both genetically and otherwise,

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Speaker 3: and how am I deciding what ends with me and

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Speaker 3: what goes forward.

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Speaker 2: So that's a very difficult thing to pull off as

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Speaker 2: a writer, is that each character that you write about, you,

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Speaker 2: I think successfully wrote them without judgment, which allows the

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Speaker 2: audience even though at times you are frustrated with some

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Speaker 2: of the decisions they might make and say.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh, why did you do this? And I found.

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Speaker 2: Myself coming back to that, particularly with Delan's mother, Adele,

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Speaker 2: who is a fascinating character, fascinating person I won't call

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Speaker 2: our character because she's a human being, right yeah, he

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Speaker 2: said his mom is very complex and fascinating, And as.

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Speaker 1: A black woman, I have to be honest.

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Speaker 2: You don't really get to see black way, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: presented in that way is see they're fitting some kind

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Speaker 2: of trope. But she has all the complexities because she

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Speaker 2: dealt with a lot of abuse. You know, she also

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Speaker 2: kind of had that sort of emotional stoicism that is

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Speaker 2: not conducive to when you're dealing with tough things. So

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Speaker 2: when it came to speaking and understanding and writing her,

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Speaker 2: what went into that especially, I'm assuming that you had

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Speaker 2: a lot of conversations with her.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, she's a tough nut to crack. She's very proud

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Speaker 6: and especially very proud of her sons and how they

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Speaker 6: turned out. And her desire to sometimes rewrite the past

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Speaker 6: because the future turned out okay is something I understand.

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Speaker 3: But isn't what the book needs to be.

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Speaker 6: And Delan had a lot of conversations with her about like,

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Speaker 6: hey Ma, like if I was telling you this story

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Speaker 6: from cell block C, that'd be a very different thing.

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Speaker 6: But we can talk about the hard times because it

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Speaker 6: worked out still, you know, emphasized education. You still loved

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Speaker 6: me and raised me and cared for me in a

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Speaker 6: way that made me feel safe enough to put myself

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Speaker 6: out in the world and become as successful as I have.

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Speaker 3: And I think.

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Speaker 6: Adele probably does have the hardest time reconciling some of

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Speaker 6: the choices she's made with the intentions she had. You know,

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Speaker 6: she did have the best intentions at all time, but

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Speaker 6: she never gave herself any sort of moment to grieve

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Speaker 6: the things that had happened to her, the ways she

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Speaker 6: had been mistreated, the choices that the men around her

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Speaker 6: made that left her always hold in the bag. She

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Speaker 6: never really had any empathy for herself, and as a result,

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Speaker 6: some of the choices she made in some of the

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Speaker 6: ways that she raised the boys kept them from processing things.

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Speaker 6: And I think for Dylan, writing the book became therapeutic.

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Speaker 6: And we've done a couple interviews while they'll ask him like, oh, like,

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Speaker 6: how did you process this or what kind of work

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Speaker 6: have you done? And he's like, the book like basically,

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Speaker 6: Sarah's my therapist. She read like nine books and did

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Speaker 6: all the work of like understanding all this, And in

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Speaker 6: the process of writing, he's had to think about the

422
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Speaker 6: questions I've asked him and sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Say, oh, I never thought about that. Oh I didn't

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Speaker 3: know that.

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Speaker 6: And especially the stuff in the book, the science stuff,

426
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Speaker 6: and I really wanted that in there because again, I

427
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Speaker 6: wanted it to be his story, and I wanted to

428
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Speaker 6: be so much more For everyone reading it, they really

429
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Speaker 6: understood a lot of the reasons why people might choose

430
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Speaker 6: trauma again, or why they might, you know, bring something

431
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Speaker 6: to a family and find it almost fact like and

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Speaker 6: irrefutable until they take a moment to say, hold on,

433
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Speaker 6: just because my family's always said this, does that mean

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Speaker 6: it's true? Or can I decide to approach things differently?

435
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Speaker 6: And so in bringing that science, he learned a lot

436
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Speaker 6: from it and he gets to be someone who both

437
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Speaker 6: heals backwards and forwards. He doesn't carry on the abuse

438
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Speaker 6: that was in his household, and he can go back

439
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 6: toward his mom and say, you did a great job.

440
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Speaker 6: It's okay that not everything was perfect all the time.

441
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Speaker 6: It's okay that people didn't give you the tools that

442
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 6: you needed, but now I'm going to help you get them,

443
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 6: which is hard for a lot of people, I think,

444
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 6: going backwards in their family trying to do that.

445
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.

446
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 2: That was interesting, the sort of scientific background that you provided,

447
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 2: As you mentioned a moment ago that nature versus nurture

448
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 2: thing like what you know, especially if you come from

449
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 2: these kinds of circumstances, you know, poverty, abused, you know,

450
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 2: all the fun subjects to deal with. What did you

451
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,239
Speaker 2: learn about your own nature in writing this book and

452
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: studying so much about this?

453
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 6: Well, I will say not just this book, but the

454
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 6: last five or ten years, I've just gotten really interested

455
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 6: in like psychology and sociology and why people are the

456
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 6: way they are. I think it's always been a curiosity

457
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 6: for me, but I sort of started to pursue it

458
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 6: more just in the podcast I read, in the books

459
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 6: I read, and so that combined with writing the book,

460
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 6: has led to a lot of texts to my parents

461
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 6: just thanking them over and over for.

462
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 3: Just not just doing such a good job.

463
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 6: And I think for me, part of it is I

464
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 6: was a lot more judgmental in my late twenties early

465
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 6: thirties about my decision making as the best choices and

466
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 6: why do people choose to do X or do why

467
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 6: it's so self sabotaging, it's dangerous. It's you know, judgmental

468
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 6: about the way people self soothe, the way people decided

469
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 6: to numb things. And that's because I had it so good,

470
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 6: Like I didn't get it right. I thought that people

471
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 6: were making these quote unquote bad decisions because they just

472
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 6: didn't have the right approach to life, or they were dumb,

473
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 6: or they were you know. And the more I read

474
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 6: about the way our childhoods can impact our decision making,

475
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 6: our impulse control, our attitudes, our gratitude, all of that,

476
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 6: the less judgmental I'm about everybody because I understand that

477
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 6: I was not saddled with a million things that other

478
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 6: people were. And for me, it's very easy to wake

479
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 6: up every day and be like, Wow, life's amazing. We

480
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 6: get dolphins and rainbows and ice cream and sunshine, and

481
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 6: why would you ever want to take drugs?

482
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: Why would you ever numb it out?

483
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 6: And then I know that there are other people that

484
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 6: wake up and every day it's how can I be

485
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 6: expected to do.

486
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 3: Another day of this?

487
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 6: And I used to judge them for that as a choice,

488
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 6: And what I understand now is that's not a choice.

489
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 6: That is mental health privilege that I have as a

490
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 6: result of having a great family, a great upbringing, parents

491
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 6: who really hit it out of the park. And so

492
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 6: that turned me into someone who was much more understanding

493
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 6: of other people's struggles and also then much more generous

494
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 6: and graceful with the folks that I was writing about

495
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 6: and talking to in this book, And I think and

496
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 6: hope that when people read it, they will also read

497
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 6: it with that mindset of wow, I don't know what

498
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 6: I would do in that situation.

499
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: It's very different from mine. So instead of judging it,

500
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to read with this open heart and open mind.

501
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I can't think of off the

502
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: top of my head. I don't know of anyone. Oh,

503
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: actually I do. I thought about it. I was like,

504
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: do I know anybody who's adopted? But there were some

505
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 2: issues that you surfaced with adoption that frankly I had

506
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: never thought about. And it may be you know, especially

507
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: I know friends I know at this point more friends

508
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: who have adopted than people I know that actually are adopted,

509
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: and just talking to them about sort of you really

510
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: take us inside the insecurity that being adopted left dealing with.

511
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: And I thought that was really transformative to see that, like, Wow,

512
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: he was insecure in environments because he wondered if people

513
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 2: were judging him or looking down on him because he

514
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: did not come from a traditional family, you know model,

515
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: And just in your extensive conversations and working with him,

516
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 2: what for him has been kind of the key to

517
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: unlocking and sort of being able to to see that

518
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: the problem was never him, it was you know, it

519
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: was these other things that you're dealing with.

520
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 6: I think it's a lifelong struggle because I don't think

521
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 6: it's an easy fix.

522
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to the.

523
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 6: Science about attachment theory, and essentially, as a kid, the

524
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 6: relationship you have with your primary caregiver can indicate over

525
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 6: the rest of your life your reaction to things. You

526
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 6: can have avoidant attachment, you can have secure attachment, and

527
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 6: all of those things can be about how often and

528
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 6: regularly your caregiver reaches out when you are struggling or

529
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 6: crying or need something, how often they're not available.

530
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: And what I.

531
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 6: Learned in this book, which was really informative, is you

532
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 6: can have a child of adoption who the day after

533
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 6: they're born, is immediately placed in someone else's care and

534
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 6: is cared for as lovingly as anyone else, but there

535
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 6: is still an inherent detachment from the body of the

536
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 6: mother to whom they were born. They were in that

537
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 6: body for nine months and we know now, of course,

538
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 6: you know, they tell you, they can tell what music

539
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 6: you're listening to, They can tell what food you're eating.

540
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 6: They can hear you if you're yelling, they feel your stress.

541
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 6: Like we love to separate our brains from our bodies.

542
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 6: And what I learned over the course of research for

543
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 6: this book, particularly from this amazing book, The Body Keeps

544
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 6: the Score, is how connected our bodies and nervous systems

545
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 6: and brains and emotions and feelings are. And so when

546
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 6: you think you're burying trauma or not acknowledging something, that

547
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 6: doesn't mean your body isn't still holding onto it. And

548
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 6: so for a child of adoption, that doesn't mean that

549
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 6: they won't ever be happy or secure. It just means

550
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 6: you have to work harder because that detachment from that

551
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 6: original mother and body that they were in feels like

552
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 6: a chasm, even if they can't put that in words.

553
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 6: And so for Dylan, his success in life, finding his

554
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 6: wife and having his sons and feeling like he's, you know,

555
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 6: accomplished all these things that he never could have imagined

556
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 6: and certainly helps with his confidence. But that deep down

557
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 6: feeling of doubt that other people have in him or

558
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 6: insecurity is still a part of who he is. It's

559
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 6: still a part of his shyness and the way he interacts,

560
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 6: and I don't know if he even would know how

561
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 6: to put it into words.

562
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 3: It's just a feeling.

563
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 6: And that comes from presumably that detachment, where for the

564
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 6: month or so that he was in the orphanage he

565
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 6: didn't have a regular caregiver attending to every single need,

566
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 6: and then had to sort of process that. Now that's subconscious.

567
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 6: Then he becomes a child and his adoptive dad leaves,

568
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 6: and now it's reinforced by the actions of others. So

569
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 6: now you're consciously also wondering about whether you're enough and

570
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 6: whether you're wanted, And so he then has processed a

571
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 6: lot of those feelings better, But it's all a jumble.

572
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 3: Like Jelle is like.

573
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 6: Really fascinating for me to really read about all this stuff,

574
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 6: and particularly to learn about the things that are very

575
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 6: clearly decided early in our lives. And it doesn't mean

576
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 6: we're you know, at the behest of those things or

577
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 6: that were incapable of moving past them. It just means

578
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 6: we have to be intentional about it. It's probably not

579
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 6: going to happen naturally. It's probably going to come by

580
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 6: deciding to look at the things that you struggle with

581
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 6: or look at the things that you're caring from your

582
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 6: parents and your youth, and be thoughtful about how you

583
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 6: want to change them.

584
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was.

585
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 2: You read my memoir, so there was a lot in

586
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: this book I could personally relate to, especially making those

587
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 2: choices of like.

588
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: What you don't want to be.

589
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: And you know, my mother, much like his mother, used

590
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: to say that same thing is that you can learn

591
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: I can teach you what not to be too. And

592
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: I certainly learned that seeing my mother go through substance

593
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: abuse and just us sort of growing up in poverty, Like,

594
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: I don't want that instability for my life. I don't

595
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: want these substance abuse issues for my life. I have

596
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: to make some conscious choices. I don't want to be

597
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: at the mercy of other people all the time, because

598
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: those situations leave you so vulnerable. Now, of course, inevitably,

599
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 2: when you write a book, especially one that is giving

600
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: us this range of emotion, this much detail being revealed,

601
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: very personal traumas.

602
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: Not everybody likes it. All right, Yeah, that has.

603
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: Been the response from his family about this book.

604
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 6: Thankfully, it has been really good. And I will tell

605
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 6: you Dylan was very worried. Worried to the point of

606
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 6: like year plus into the process.

607
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: Do you think we should just not do the book?

608
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I'm going to kill you. We're doing it.

609
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: We've been working on it. It's gonna be okay. But

610
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: let's talk about why you're worried. Let's talk about what

611
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: you're nervous about.

612
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 6: Let's figure out if we can take things out or

613
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 6: edit things or add things that'll make you feel better.

614
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 6: And what's been really great to hear both directly from

615
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 6: his family members to me, who have been so wonderful

616
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 6: throughout but sent me the kindest messages when they got

617
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 6: the final draft and read the book, but also in

618
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 6: talking to him, he sent it to a handful of

619
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 6: cousins and other family members, and he was just waiting

620
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 6: for what he thought was going to be the inevitable Oh,

621
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 6: chapter fifteen, Oh that's going to be a mess or

622
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 6: chapter five on.

623
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 3: Like he said, he didn't hear it at all. All

624
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 3: he heard was the bigger picture of what this book

625
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 3: might do for a lot of people, and particularly for

626
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: their family, the conversations it was going to start among

627
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: them and their families and the larger family of which

628
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: he exists.

629
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 6: And that's what I was reassuring him throughout was I

630
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 6: really think this book is going to make a difference

631
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 6: for people. I really think people are going to get

632
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 6: to see you as this multi dimensional person. And when

633
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 6: you make a mistake, like you'd steal a Gi Joe

634
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 6: or whatever else, like, that's not because he was most

635
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 6: worried about those moments that showed him struggling or taking

636
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 6: a faltering in a way that you know, and that's

637
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 6: life writing a like I'm not going to name a name,

638
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 6: but I had a real famous athlete on my show

639
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 6: who pitched me her book and I read it and

640
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 6: had her and then I thought, this, ain't it? Like

641
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 6: this book is missing the parts where I believe you

642
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 6: that this is your story. This book is missing the

643
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 6: challenges and the struggles and your mistakes, not just things

644
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 6: that happened to us that aren't ideal, but the choices

645
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 6: we make that we later learned from. And I told Dylan,

646
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 6: we need those moments to fully appreciate just how much

647
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 6: you got through and passed to become who you are.

648
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 6: And so I'm really glad that that's how everyone seems

649
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 6: to be responding to it. Adele did say at one

650
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 6: but I'm gonna write my own book. I was like, okay,

651
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 6: but she also, you know, she said to him she

652
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 6: wanted to explain to him why she did things, and

653
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 6: he said, listen, I get that, but like when I

654
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 6: was a kid, I didn't know that. So the book

655
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 6: has to be what I thought and felt and saw

656
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 6: when it happened, not what I learned forty five years

657
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 6: later about why you did that. And that's hard, I

658
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 6: think for people. And I imagine when you wrote your book,

659
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 6: you felt the same. It's like everybody remembers things differently,

660
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 6: and everybody wants to process them differently. But the real

661
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 6: magic is in telling it honestly and truthfully, so that

662
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 6: when other people read it, they see themselves and their

663
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 6: own mistakes and their own families.

664
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: Well, I can say this is my mother was amazing

665
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: and me talking to her about the book because I

666
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: was revealing all this stuff, you know, the really the

667
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: the very hard parts about her substance abuse, and she

668
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: told me a bunch of stories I'd never heard before,

669
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god, I might need

670
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: a moment because I saw that it certainly was very

671
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: difficult asking her about you know, what was the worst

672
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: moment of her life when she was you know, raped

673
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: and assaulted.

674
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: So it's just that that was very, very hard.

675
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: But that fallout part, as I said about people not

676
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: always being happy, is that it you know, I probably

677
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: never say this publicly, but it basically put a huge

678
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: wedge between.

679
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: Me and my father.

680
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: And so that's why I asked you about, like, was

681
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: how did everybody receive this?

682
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: Because you know, people, it's hard. One thing, I'm sorry

683
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: to hear that. Well, I appreciate you saying that, and

684
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'll be honest, I'm.

685
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: Not sure if our relationship will ever recover from it,

686
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: but I will say that, like I do understand for people,

687
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: when you read it in print.

688
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: They see it there feels different. It feels a lot different.

689
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 6: And also sometimes it might be the first time you

690
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 6: really hear that that's how someone felt. Yeah, And they

691
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 6: might say I told you that, but like maybe you didn't.

692
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: Probably get it that way, maybe you never really said it.

693
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, I will say a couple of the

694
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 6: people in the book who are the most poorly probably

695
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 6: received are no longer with us, okay, okay, which does

696
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 6: make it a little bit easier to not have to

697
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 6: wonder maybe their family members won't like seeing some things.

698
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, I think.

699
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 6: One of the most remarkable things about this story is

700
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 6: the incredible grace shown by all the people in it.

701
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 6: And that's part of why it feels the way it

702
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 6: does to read it, because it's not just like whoa serendipitous,

703
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 6: that's wild, but it's like, wow, look at how this

704
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 6: person chose to receive this news. Look at how this

705
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 6: person chose to embrace the people around them after receiving

706
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 6: this news, And that's not how it always works. I'm

707
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 6: just really amazed by the people in Delan's life. He

708
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 6: really looked out on both his birth family and his

709
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 6: chosen family and even all those guardian angels that I

710
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 6: mentioned around him. And you know, I'm sorry to hear

711
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 6: that about your dad. I know it's really tough to read,

712
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 6: but I wonder if eventually he'll find the grace too

713
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 6: to want to have the right conversations to figure out

714
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 6: why it was meaningful you for you and necessary for

715
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 6: you to write it.

716
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 2: And well, Sarah, that's that's to be unpacked for another episode.

717
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: Because the issue wasn't what I wrote. The issue was

718
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: that I didn't write about him enough.

719
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 2: So that's to be that's something that we will have

720
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: to unpack maybe maybe a.

721
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 3: Book, book book. Maybe this is a perfect way.

722
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 6: It's a perfect way to get that second book book advance,

723
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 6: unpack it then but until start a bigger fight and

724
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 6: then you'll have more to write about and then tie.

725
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: Up at the end with a nice ball, you know,

726
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: maybe sont b.

727
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: Uh. You know, I'm glad that everybody received it in

728
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: which the spirit and in which you and which you

729
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: meant it. But it uh, this apparently will be bigger

730
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: than just a book, because you will have a movie

731
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: about this, hopefully hopefully what's what's holding on with the

732
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: potential of Runs in the Family maybe being a movie.

733
00:35:59,719 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

734
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 6: So when we first did the story for E sixty

735
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 6: and the written story for ESPN, it really went viral.

736
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 6: It was pretty wild, some of the people posting about it,

737
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 6: writing about it. Allegedly. I was told both Denzel and

738
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 6: Jamie Fox went to their agents and we're like, if

739
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 6: this is a movie like I wanted and so yeah,

740
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 6: so when in the aftermath we did get some calls

741
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 6: about potential movie rights and book. At the time, I

742
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 6: had fifty eleven jobs, as you would say, at ESPN.

743
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 6: So I wasn't ready for the book side, but the

744
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 6: movie was of interest, and it wasn't my story yet.

745
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: It's just a five thousand word piece.

746
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 6: It was Delan's life story that they were really optioning,

747
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 6: but Dylan wanted to bring me along as an executive

748
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 6: producer and a script supervisor, having worked with the family

749
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 6: to tell the story.

750
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 3: So CIA is my agency.

751
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 6: They ended up working with a company called Macro. They've

752
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 6: done a lot of African American folks.

753
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, Charles and Poppy and everyone was there.

754
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, And they've done Fences and Sorry to Bother You

755
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 6: and mud Bound, all these really great award nominated African

756
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 6: American driven stories that felt like the kind of story

757
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 6: we wanted to tell, And so they ended up kind

758
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 6: of winning the rights, and then Russell Wilson and Sierra's

759
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 6: company was among the other folks trying to get it,

760
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 6: and when they didn't get it, they came back and said,

761
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 6: can we still be involved?

762
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 3: So they came on as executive producers.

763
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 6: Now, up until literally last week, I thought that deal

764
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 6: was really still in place because we had pitched primarily

765
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 6: during COVID and then during the writers strike, so it

766
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 6: was like I guess we'll take a pause and a hiatus.

767
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 6: We'll wait for now the book to come out, and

768
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 6: we'll revisit. But as it turns out, there was a

769
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 6: deadline on that that expired, so a new deal would

770
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 6: have to be negotiated. So those two will come back,

771
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 6: and anybody else who's pitching right now will come to us,

772
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 6: and perhaps we'll work with the same people, maybe we'll

773
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,479
Speaker 6: work with someone else, but that's all yet to be seen.

774
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 6: The cool thing about it now is it is my

775
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 6: story and the book that Dylan and I wrote more

776
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 6: than just his life. There is enough of source material

777
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 6: now that it would be a movie with the book

778
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 6: at the center, which is great for me in terms of,

779
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 6: you know, being involved, and also great for having proof

780
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 6: of the larger, bigger story to tell beyond just the

781
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 6: original short one that we did. And I think that's

782
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 6: driving even more interest in it. So I told Pablo

783
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 6: they were still in That was incorrect information.

784
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: They might still be in the future though, and they

785
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: do seem interested.

786
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 6: So you know, first we'll have hopefully like a I

787
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 6: don't think it's a bidding war because you don't really

788
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 6: pay for the rights. It's more like you have the

789
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 6: opportunity to shepherd it towards studios and then and then

790
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 6: the stuff happens.

791
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: But well, I would not be surprised.

792
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: I'm sure that we will see this on the big

793
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: screen one day because it's like such a rich story.

794
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, like you know, I mean I love to

795
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: see you mentioned Jamie and Gazil, like.

796
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: Is there a role for one of them?

797
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: It's like right, right, Well.

798
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 6: It's like what age and what part of the story, right,

799
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 6: And also it was like Gazel would have to be

800
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 6: people have to biological Dan, Yeah, exactly exactly at this age, at.

801
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: This age, so it might might be a little different.

802
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: And just to give people an idea about where Dylan

803
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 2: is now, he's an assistant with the Las Vegas Raiders.

804
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: He's running backs, coming backs coach, and you know he's

805
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 2: been around the league Seattle. And in fact, that was

806
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: one of the treats for me in reading the book

807
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: and him talking some of those coaches I covered that

808
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 2: he talked about, like Dodtreill, like I covered dodtree Will

809
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: when he.

810
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 6: I loved that, So, like, well, what was cool for

811
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 6: me as like a couple of the coaches that came

812
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 6: to visit him in high school when he was getting recruited,

813
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 6: were up and comers like Bob Stoops and Jim Dressel. Right, yeah,

814
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 6: So he was at Notre Dame just before this, helped

815
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 6: them to a national title game. He won a Super

816
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 6: Bowl with the Chiefs. He was at USC Indiana, Miami

817
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 6: of Ohio, and he did do a coaching internship at

818
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 6: Seattle too.

819
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 3: You mentioned that.

820
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 6: But yeah, he's been a bunch of places, and it's

821
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 6: always fun. And when I read a book that's a

822
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 6: true story, I love when they pepper in some stuff

823
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 6: about the time and place. I knew I wanted to

824
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 6: make Youngstown essentially a character. It felt like Youngstown was

825
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 6: almost another parent, and so that needed to be really rich.

826
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 6: But I also wanted to throw in stuff about the

827
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 6: things that were happening in pop culture.

828
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, time growing in the public enemy reference, the

829
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 2: public enemy references.

830
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 3: You know.

831
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 6: So I at the beginning, I remember sending a long

832
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 6: list of stuff to Dylan and his brother Damon, of

833
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 6: like did you watch this?

834
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: Did you play with this? Did you read this? Have

835
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 3: you ever heard of this?

836
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 6: And it'd be funny the things where he'd be like, nah,

837
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 6: I don't know what that is and then oh, yeah,

838
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 6: we watch this all the time, or we did this

839
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 6: because I wanted it to be really authentic, and I

840
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 6: wanted to spur some memories that they could tell me,

841
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 6: like you know, he was in class when the Challenger

842
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 6: exploded and things like that. But also I just love

843
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 6: being reminded that the story is in real life by

844
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 6: having things like the car is, sir, mix a lots

845
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 6: and you know those little links to this story. Yeah,

846
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 6: and those little stories like that, and then the moments

847
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 6: when players and coaches intersect with him where you're like, oh, yeah,

848
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 6: that was the draft where this player went first, and

849
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 6: things like that.

850
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

851
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: No, the references were all good. They made me feel

852
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: two thousand years old, but they were good.

853
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 3: Well, Dealing's older than both of us, so at least

854
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: at least he is.

855
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a little close to do them than

856
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: you are, but I feel you all right. Well, Sarah's

857
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: a lot more I want to ask you about, not

858
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: just with this book, but also some other things, especially

859
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: your experience now as a owner. So I want to

860
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 2: ask you about that and some other things. But we're

861
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: going to take a quick break and we'll be back

862
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: with more of a Sarah Spain. You know, I was thinking, Sarah, like,

863
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 2: was there a person in the book I didn't like?

864
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: And then I was like, because I think you did

865
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: a really good job of humanizing everybody. But then I remembered.

866
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: I was like, it was the first real girlfriend.

867
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 2: Wasn't a fan, wasn't feeling it. She was young, So

868
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 2: I like, you've given her all the grace of being.

869
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: Hopefully she grew out of it.

870
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: Hopefully she grew out of it she needs to be.

871
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: Was not a fan of hers at all.

872
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 6: I feel like Dylan was like very worried about the

873
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 6: different girlfriends in the book. I'm like, you've been married forever,

874
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 6: you have four kids, everybody dated someone before. There's she's

875
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 6: gonna be okay Darnelle' school, She's gonna be okay with it.

876
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that was like that that was probably it.

877
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: But I get that that one very early in the process.

878
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: You know, you had made this joke about you having

879
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: fifty eleven jobs, because you know that is kind of

880
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: what happens when you essentially you are the product and

881
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: you basically become the business. So you know, with this

882
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 2: book out with a lot of the other stuff that

883
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: you're doing. You have your own podcasts, your award winning

884
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: podcast Thank You. So, how would you describe this season

885
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: of your career.

886
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 6: It's interesting, you know, I am a person who seems

887
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 6: sort of fearless, except usually when I'm in control, if

888
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 6: that makes sense. I get settled and I like a place,

889
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 6: and then I like to work within the construct of

890
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 6: that place. So it was really jarring for me when

891
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 6: just working at ESPN and having all those jobs ended

892
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 6: and I became part time there. I'm still doing work

893
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 6: for espnW, but ESPN's the top of the ladder, and

894
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 6: so when you aren't there anymore, you look around and

895
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 6: you're like, what's the goal?

896
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: Where do I want to be?

897
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 6: And also, I think unfortunately in the sports space, you

898
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 6: and I are both you know, thoughtful, progressive voices.

899
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 3: There are just places that I'm not going to work.

900
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 6: There's just a lot of places I'm not going to

901
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 6: work and they're not going to want me and I'm

902
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 6: not going to want.

903
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: To be there.

904
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 6: And so looking around at that time and figuring out

905
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 6: what else I wanted to do was both really useful

906
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 6: for me because I had to actually think about it

907
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 6: for the first time in thirteen years' you know, like

908
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 6: I went from starting at ESPN when I was like can.

909
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 3: I even do this business? Will I ever make any money?

910
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 6: Will anyone ever want to listen to me, to like, Oh,

911
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 6: I'm never leaving here, this is great, And then all

912
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 6: of a sudden, it's like, oh, I got to like

913
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 6: figure something out at a completely different stage in my

914
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 6: life with completely different expectations for the money I want

915
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 6: to make in the place I'm going to live versus

916
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 6: when I started in my twenties, and so that was.

917
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: Really hard for me.

918
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 6: But I got the really incredible gift of having started

919
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 6: a podcast at ESPN that I kind of carved out

920
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 6: some space to talk to anyone I wanted about anything

921
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 6: I wanted. I had started to feel really one note

922
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 6: at ESPN doing radio for thirteen years, where it was

923
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 6: like every day I needed to know everything about everything

924
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 6: all the time, and that was fine, except for I

925
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 6: have so many interests outside of sports and so on

926
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 6: my podcast, I started having a lot of guests from

927
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 6: a lot of backgrounds, and oftentimes what they'd talk about

928
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 6: or something would come up would be a real challenge

929
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 6: that they faced, whether that was surprise, medical diagnosis and accident,

930
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 6: a firing, a life change, and as I would listen,

931
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 6: I would think, man, I've had it real good, Like

932
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 6: what would I do if I was in that position?

933
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 6: And that included talking to some folks that had left

934
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 6: ESPN by choice or had been let go and were

935
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 6: surprised by the decision and hearing them talk about life

936
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 6: after he has been you know that I called you

937
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 6: like the week that he who shall not be named

938
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 6: tried to get my ass out of there and then

939
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 6: was thwarted in his efforts because I'm.

940
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 3: Still in there.

941
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 6: But he did have some effect that really minimizing the

942
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 6: work I was doing. And I was like, all right,

943
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 6: you're making it look good. You're showing us how to

944
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 6: do it, Like tell me everything, you know, Calm me down,

945
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 6: because this is like a scary thing. And having had

946
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 6: those conversations with folks like you and others, I had

947
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 6: prepared myself for the moment that my life would take

948
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 6: a turn. I didn't know that it would be that,

949
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,959
Speaker 6: but I had asked myself questions when people had talked

950
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 6: about these challenges, how would I have handled that? And

951
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 6: I thought to myself, pretty shitty, pretty shitty. You've had

952
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 6: it real good. You've never had knock on wood, any

953
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 6: like major tragedies or traumas, and you're just riding along

954
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 6: feeling good. And if something comes and knox you opside

955
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 6: the head, whether it's disease or actually or otherwise, like,

956
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 6: you're going to be bad at handling it. So start

957
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 6: thinking about it now, Start giving yourself the tools now,

958
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 6: start listening to and reading the things that are going

959
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 6: to help you be better.

960
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 3: And that was a real gift.

961
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 6: So that when it did happen, I gave myself a

962
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 6: couple of days to be angry and sad, and then

963
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 6: I was like, all right, well, this is an opportunity.

964
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 6: How can I use this to like calibrate what I

965
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 6: want to do and what's next? And I was really

966
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 6: thoughtful about it. I got offered a couple jobs that

967
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 6: were things that I just really didn't want, and they

968
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 6: paid well and they were high profile, and I was like, wait,

969
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 6: this is an opportunity to be thoughtful about what I want,

970
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 6: not just be scared and jump into the next thing.

971
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: And so.

972
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 6: I love my show that I'm doing. It's a lot

973
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 6: of work you'd be shocked to hear. But the year

974
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 6: and a half or so that I mostly wrote the

975
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 6: book and had a couple other jobs. Writing a book

976
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 6: is but it was like the first time in thirteen

977
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 6: years that I could just be like, oh, someone invited

978
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 6: me to the Cubs game, all right, I'll go to

979
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 6: that and I'll write more tomorrow. Meanwhile, every other day

980
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 6: for fifteen years now, I've had a show every day.

981
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 6: And you know that that's great and it's good stability,

982
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 6: but that means every day the light turns on and

983
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 6: that's it. That's where you are, and that's what you're

984
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 6: doing and that's what you're thinking about. And so I'm

985
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 6: back to the daily schedule, but a daily podcast, so

986
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 6: then you can always be working on it. There isn't

987
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 6: even a light that turns out and then goes off.

988
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 6: It's like at any moment, you could be doing an interview,

989
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 6: writing a script, adding something, editing something. So it's been

990
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 6: a lot of work, but it doesn't exist. There's no

991
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 6: other daily women's sports show of any kind on TV

992
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 6: radio podcast, so being something that people want and new

993
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 6: is missing.

994
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 3: Is awesome.

995
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 6: Writing a book, which is something I've always wanted to do,

996
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 6: and actually having the time and the gift of the

997
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 6: editor who wanted it years ago, coming back around literally

998
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 6: right when I was like what am I going to

999
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 6: do with my life and being like I'm back with

1000
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 6: the book, but now I'm in Simon and Schuster. Would

1001
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 6: you'd be interested? I was like, yeah, great timing, let's

1002
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 6: do that. And then being in spaces I want to

1003
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 6: be in. You know, Jabelle, I think you and I

1004
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 6: both are built to swim upstream.

1005
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: We can do it. We have the spine for it,

1006
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: but that doesn't mean we always want to.

1007
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 6: And so going from many years of arguing with people

1008
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 6: about the value of women, arguing people.

1009
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 3: About the product being.

1010
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 6: Good, but needing to fix the infrastructure around it, the marketing,

1011
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 6: the advertising, the storytelling, and getting into the space now

1012
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 6: where predominantly I'm surrounded by other people who agree, and

1013
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 6: by women and badass women and successful women and a

1014
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 6: lot fewer creepy men.

1015
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, this is nice, So I think it's

1016
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 3: a good season.

1017
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 6: It feels tenuous because I'm not on the same kind

1018
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 6: of four or five year contracts and that was a

1019
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 6: nice feeling to know. But I'm trying to teach myself

1020
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 6: to be more comfortable with not knowing. It's part of

1021
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 6: my lessons I'm learning about myself and my control issues.

1022
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know many successful people who are not

1023
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: also control freaks.

1024
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,919
Speaker 2: And it's really control has kind of a negative connotation, right,

1025
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: It's not really control. It's just that there is a

1026
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 2: vision and a purpose you have for yourself and you're

1027
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: thinking about how am I going to best execute that?

1028
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: And yes, it is much easier to execute that when

1029
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: you have a four or five year teal, like a

1030
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: lot easier, you know, And.

1031
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: So I hear you, it's like I think you probably have.

1032
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: You unfortunately are cursed with the with the thing where

1033
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: you make it look easier than it is because I

1034
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 2: know how much.

1035
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 3: It's nice, thank you.

1036
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's people assume just because you used to

1037
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 2: battling that that's what you want to do. It's like, no,

1038
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 2: I would love for every two weeks there to be

1039
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 2: a patcheock that's quite large. Just setting about bank account

1040
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 2: that I don't have to work two hours in the

1041
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: day to get.

1042
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: That would be yeah, my life. But that's okay.

1043
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like hard to decide. Am I am I

1044
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 6: someone who loves working hard? Or am I someone who

1045
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 6: will only accept the results of working hard if I

1046
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 6: could get those results.

1047
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: Without working hard.

1048
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: I would.

1049
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 6: I would damn sure figure out how to relax more

1050
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 6: would Oh you know what, Jamal, You know how people

1051
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 6: think my husband's a billionairecause they're fucking morons. So the

1052
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 6: internet says my husband is a billionaire. Do you think

1053
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 6: I would be here no offense? Because I love you

1054
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 6: so much? Do you think I would be here and

1055
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 6: working a daily podcast and busting my ass as much

1056
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 6: as I have if I was a billionaire. Yeah, you

1057
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 6: would never see or hear for me, especially right now

1058
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 6: in this country.

1059
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: How would it be here?

1060
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 3: Why are you kidding me?

1061
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 6: I would live in the sickest house in New Zealand,

1062
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 6: maybe Australia, because there's more animals there and my real

1063
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 6: goal in life, especially now, is to get off the

1064
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 6: grid and just hang out with animals all day. I

1065
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 6: would live in a sick house somewhere with animals everywhere

1066
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 6: and the occasional human stopping.

1067
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 3: But that's the dream right now.

1068
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: I I overstand this dream. I do the animal part.

1069
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 2: You know.

1070
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: I might pick someplace a little bit, you know.

1071
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, you like you like a bougie beach.

1072
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 6: I like I like a lake in mountains, and like

1073
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 6: just animals, like I'm truly I am starting the mapping

1074
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 6: out of like.

1075
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 3: A small little farm.

1076
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 6: I need this book to do well so I can

1077
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 6: become a writer, get off the grid, not have to

1078
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 6: be on the internet, not have to interact with everyone,

1079
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 6: and just like hang out with my animals and write

1080
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 6: all day.

1081
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: So yeah, that is I.

1082
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: Think most people who love writing, that is your dream

1083
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 2: is to find a secluded place and just be there.

1084
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 2: And just for me, it's just it's just beach and water.

1085
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 2: That's it was the same.

1086
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 3: We can visit each other totally.

1087
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: I was like, I'll get some animal timing.

1088
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, give you a couple of weeks, like a time shirt.

1089
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 6: It's like that movie The Holiday. You can be camera Diaz.

1090
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 3: We can't.

1091
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: Well, we have our own jew laws, so we don't

1092
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: have to perfect. Yeah, so it'd be perfect.

1093
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 2: So you know, as you mentioned, you think that you're

1094
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 2: in a good season in your career now, but given

1095
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: the climate of the country, does it feel more tenuous?

1096
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: Because that is what I'm struggling with to some degree now,

1097
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 2: is like where do I fit in explimit that looks

1098
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: like this?

1099
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 6: So first of all, I have to hope that it

1100
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 6: can't last forever. First I have to hope that term

1101
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 6: limits and the Constitution have any meaning anymore, and that

1102
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 6: at the very worst, we have a couple more years.

1103
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: I have to hope that.

1104
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 6: All the smartest people in the world and the best

1105
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 6: intentioned people in the world still believe that. You know,

1106
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 6: I'm going to mess up the quote, but in the

1107
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 6: long arc of history, justice bending.

1108
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that.

1109
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 6: It can't like we can't all be watching this and

1110
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 6: understanding how awful it is and then just have it

1111
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 6: stay that way. But I just sat down with aspiring

1112
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 6: journalist for about two hours yesterday, and I really struggled

1113
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 6: to tell her where the industry would be, how people

1114
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,919
Speaker 6: would be digesting content. I'm deeply troubled by AI. I'm

1115
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 6: deeply troubled by people, young people, especially not training their

1116
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 6: brains correctly to be able to see when something is

1117
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 6: very clearly chat GBT, not being able to use critical

1118
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 6: thinking and digital literacy to understand the truth versus very

1119
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 6: clear lies, not being able to vet and source content

1120
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 6: and information to know if it's real or not. We've

1121
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 6: already seen the impact that's had on democracy and decision

1122
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 6: making before the real onslaught of fake videos, fake you know,

1123
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 6: voice fake everything, and I think the ways that will

1124
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 6: impact the industry are I don't even think we can

1125
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 6: understand or know all of them yet, and so I

1126
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 6: think that uncertainty is really scary. I think it will

1127
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 6: never be complete, letely useless to be who we are.

1128
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 6: And unfortunately, sometimes when things are at their very worst,

1129
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 6: that's when voices of opposition are most needed.

1130
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 5: You know.

1131
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 6: They talk about that sometimes during times of like good

1132
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 6: progressive activism, like people get a little quieter and a

1133
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 6: little more comfortable because they're like, yeah, things are pretty good,

1134
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 6: but I do worry about places making enough money to

1135
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 6: keep employing people that care about the truth and want

1136
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 6: to do good work. I look around and see how

1137
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 6: few places are spending on real journalism, and also how

1138
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 6: few people understand and get that you need.

1139
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 3: To pay for it.

1140
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 6: You know, the Internet is just convinced people that everything

1141
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 6: can be free. But what they don't understand is that

1142
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 6: quality content that's accurate and well sourced and reported costs something.

1143
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 3: So instead they just settle.

1144
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 6: For trash that's not true, or is poorly done or

1145
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 6: is written by a robot. And that I I think,

1146
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 6: I hope there's a tipping point on that I'd like

1147
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 6: to believe there is, but we do feel like we're

1148
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 6: getting really progressively dumber, and the studies actually show that

1149
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 6: for the first time in history in hundreds of years,

1150
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 6: we are getting dumber as a country. And I don't

1151
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 6: think that's going to be helped by everyone using chat

1152
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 6: GPT to write all their sentences.

1153
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 2: That's for Yeah, well as you know how offensive that

1154
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 2: he is to writers, and we can tell.

1155
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: And that's the problem.

1156
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 6: I'm like, some of y'all are too stupid to even

1157
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 6: know that this damn world's word salad over here is

1158
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 6: very clearly written by a computer.

1159
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 3: But we know, and we're like, I get a lot

1160
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: of emails from people where I'm like, oh, you think

1161
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 3: you got me on that? Huh? You think you real slick?

1162
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 3: That is the most dumb the chat gp looking set

1163
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 3: of paragraphs. Oh, this is what we're going to send

1164
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 3: over jeveny fixes. Yeah, a lot of them, because this

1165
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 3: isn't written by a human and I'm not sending this

1166
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 3: over as my work. God damn.

1167
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 2: And I'm trying not to be oh woman yelling at

1168
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: cloud though, So you know that's how I feel like,

1169
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 2: way to embrace some of it. So I have recently

1170
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: started using at GPT, but very limited scope. Okay, like

1171
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: good for recipes, good for recipes, Like if you're like

1172
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 2: you just use Google and then it doesn't just use

1173
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:11,240
Speaker 2: as much.

1174
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: Get familiar with.

1175
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 3: Bad for the environment. It uses so much water to

1176
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 3: train it. It's bad energy. I just I don't want

1177
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 3: to run fight the urge. Use it when you really

1178
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 3: need it.

1179
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 2: Well, you bring up a great point, especially about the environment,

1180
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: which is crucial you know, to it to its success. Unfortunately,

1181
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 2: ruining the environment, much like.

1182
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:33,439
Speaker 1: A lot of things are.

1183
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,439
Speaker 2: I guess it's scared me. I saw a video of

1184
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 2: like someone far older than me. They were trying to

1185
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: like learn how to do something that is very basic

1186
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: to us, and they just are so horrible trying to

1187
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: do this.

1188
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh my god, that's gonna be me.

1189
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: That's gonna be yeah.

1190
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 3: Can I tell you that after this?

1191
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,720
Speaker 6: I have a TikTok session with a Cornell student who

1192
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,240
Speaker 6: called me for advice on her career and on her resume.

1193
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 6: Was talking about being a social media superstar, and I'm like,

1194
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 6: can I pay you to teach me some more tricks

1195
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 6: on the TikTok? I'm never good at tiktoks here, I've

1196
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 6: only made like four and I like.

1197
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 3: Basically made a video and then just moved it over there.

1198
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 6: But like so much of the content on my show

1199
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 6: would be good on TikTok, but I don't know how

1200
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 6: to like make my little floaty face above something at.

1201
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: This point to it when you find out, let me teach,

1202
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: you teach.

1203
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 3: Okay, just you know my rate is going to be

1204
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 3: way higher than this college kids, but you can afford it.

1205
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: You're good, not the way these beals cover.

1206
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 6: Girl. You know that don't stop going to those beach vacations.

1207
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: So you know obviously you're you're still working part time

1208
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: with ESPN. ESPN w T be very specific like a

1209
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 2: lot of us, you cut your teeth on around the horn.

1210
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: What did it feel like for you seeing that show?

1211
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 6: And it was sad and frustrating and ultimately, in some ways,

1212
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 6: I think, really beautiful and validating. There are a lot

1213
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 6: of shows that don't get that kind of ending. And

1214
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 6: as painful as it was for some of the people

1215
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 6: involved to have this sort of long slow walk toward

1216
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 6: the funeral, it meant that there were so many folks

1217
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 6: expressing really just how much it meant to them. And

1218
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 6: I think by the time all the thing pieces were

1219
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 6: written and Tony had done eight bajillion podcasts podcasts podcasts

1220
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 6: and all of the podcasts and all of us had

1221
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 6: done our appearances and everyone it made their return. I

1222
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 6: think it's not that they felt good, because I think

1223
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 6: there's still so many unanswered questions about why they're canceling it.

1224
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 6: They don't have a replacement. That's you know, pushing it out.

1225
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 6: It wasn't getting old and stale. The ratings were still good,

1226
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 6: blah blah blah. But I do think they had this

1227
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 6: recognition of like, wow, most shows don't get twenty three years,

1228
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 6: you know, and then recognizing how many people really got

1229
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 6: something out of it, both in terms of their careers

1230
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 6: being made by it like some of us and viewers.

1231
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 6: And I think that was really cool at least that

1232
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 6: it went out in style. It went out with so

1233
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 6: many people expressing what it meant to them. But yeah,

1234
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't want to again, don't want to

1235
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 6: be old woman yelling at a cloud. But to me

1236
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 6: it felt almost too on the nose to have a

1237
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 6: show that's rooted in the value of journalism and of

1238
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 6: being there in person to tell the story and of

1239
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 6: using the words of the people who are there to

1240
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 6: form opinions and talk about something, saying goodbye to that

1241
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 6: in favor of what's.

1242
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 3: Really prevalent now, which is just who can be.

1243
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 6: The most salacious, who's got the most followers, influencers, former athletes,

1244
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 6: all those that have a place.

1245
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 3: But they can't be the only thing.

1246
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 6: And if we're pushing out all the journalists in favor

1247
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 6: of folks like that, it's just again dumbing down the

1248
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 6: product and making.

1249
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 3: The truth less important and less central.

1250
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 6: And I think with aggregation already on the Internet, it's

1251
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 6: so hard to give the credit to the person who

1252
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 6: does the work in the first place. But now with

1253
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 6: fewer people even doing that work, we really just end

1254
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 6: up with so much garbage content that's rooted in Like

1255
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 6: I watched a video and she rolled her eyes and

1256
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 6: now I think they're fighting. Or I watched a video

1257
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 6: and I think he did this, so that guy farted

1258
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 6: on the bench next to him. That's our top story today,

1259
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 6: Like it's you know, and I'm not an old school

1260
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 6: journalism with a Jay person. I you know, Tony and

1261
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 6: I would go back and forth quoting white snake and

1262
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 6: animal house, like we made it really fun, but it

1263
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 6: was also rooted in the truth. And I think that's

1264
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 6: the main thing. When I go talk to young people

1265
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 6: now about journalism, I'm like, more than anything, you have

1266
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 6: to be fair and you have to be honest, because

1267
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 6: the idea of like I'm going to get more TikTok

1268
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 6: views or my video is going to go around the

1269
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 6: world twice. If it's as loud and salacious as possible, that's.

1270
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: Not that's not it.

1271
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 6: Like you might be popular first around of time. But

1272
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:57,959
Speaker 6: if what you said is untrue, if what you said

1273
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 6: is damaging, if what you said is unfair to the

1274
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 6: people you're covering, that's not the job you're signing up for.

1275
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 3: And don't get caught doing that.

1276
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to tell them now.

1277
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: I'll be honest because my career path does not mirror

1278
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: anything out and.

1279
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: You and I had to borrow cameras.

1280
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 6: I mean I had to burn DVDs and mail them

1281
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 6: list places to try to get an interview.

1282
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: Listen.

1283
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 2: I still because again I'm ancient. I really remember going

1284
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: to truck stops and having to send my stories in

1285
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: to what I was covering high schools, getting paid thirty

1286
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: bucks a story, and I had to go to a

1287
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 2: truck stop and use a suction cup on a pay

1288
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: phone to send a story because I had the tent.

1289
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: It was literally caught the t one thousand. It was

1290
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: a common door. You never want to see this machine

1291
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: it is.

1292
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 3: You are ancient.

1293
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: I am. I was like seven thousand, like seriously, And so.

1294
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 3: I did use microfiche in high school.

1295
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: I used microfish.

1296
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 6: I was talking to the girl that I was chatting

1297
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 6: about the journalism freshman, and I was trying to explain

1298
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 6: to her. I'm like, just the amount of time you

1299
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 6: say home with the Internet, I had to walk to

1300
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 6: a library, look up where something is, go to like

1301
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 6: a microfiche, or go to a shelf, find the book,

1302
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 6: find the page, go to the copy machine, copy the pages.

1303
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: Bring them home.

1304
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 3: I look at them.

1305
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: You just Google.

1306
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these kids will never know that Dewey

1307
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 2: decimal system.

1308
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: No, they will never know this. No, No, it's amazing.

1309
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: We got anything accomplished, like just sending your resumes out

1310
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 2: like before I went to a job there. Oh my god,

1311
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 2: it's like happening to floppy disk and yulting it and

1312
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 2: getting something from Kiko's that we are so old, I

1313
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,479
Speaker 2: know so, but it builds character there though, you have

1314
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 2: gone beyond just supporting women's sports with your commentary and coverage,

1315
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 2: and also as a former athlete, you are investing in

1316
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 2: women's sports with your money, not just you, but also

1317
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 2: the community that you have built around your podcast.

1318
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: So tell me how that came about.

1319
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 3: Well, you may recall it a couple of years ago.

1320
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 6: I now so that I was part of the ownership

1321
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 6: group for the Chicago then Red Stars now Neutral Colored Stars,

1322
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 6: just the Chicago Stars now of the NWSL, and I

1323
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 6: learned a ton from that. I wouldn't say it was

1324
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 6: necessarily a positive experience, unfortunately, because ultimately our majority owner

1325
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 6: was forced to sell, our coaches banned from the league.

1326
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 6: There was a lot of internal fighting about how to

1327
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 6: handle reports about the coach, and unfortunately it played out

1328
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 6: the way a lot of things do, where a whole

1329
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 6: bunch of marginalized folk, women, people of color, LGBTQ plus

1330
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 6: people in the ownership group wanted to center the players

1331
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 6: and act accordingly from the start, and a lot of

1332
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 6: others wanted to cover their asses and see if they

1333
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 6: could make it go away, and ultimately it didn't and

1334
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 6: we were all forced out, and I didn't get what

1335
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 6: I wanted out of that ownership, but it taught me

1336
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 6: a lot about understanding the gaps in communication between the

1337
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 6: people at the highest levels of sport and the rich

1338
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 6: owners and the athletes themselves, and particularly in women's sports.

1339
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 6: Meryrett Matthias was on my show Good Game. She's a

1340
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 6: former NWSL player who recently retired, and said very specific

1341
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 6: that if you look at the pyramid of sports, in

1342
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 6: the men's side, the players are at the top and

1343
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 6: it trickles down from there, and in the women's side,

1344
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 6: the players are probably in the middle, if not near

1345
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 6: the bottom. They are not valued, they are not heard,

1346
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 6: they're not prioritized, they're considered more interchangeable because they're not

1347
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 6: paid enough for them to have the leverage that the

1348
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 6: men do in their sports. And so in order to

1349
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 6: fix that, there needs to be better communication from the

1350
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 6: players to the ownership side. And having learned that, I

1351
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 6: wanted to find a way to get back in somehow

1352
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 6: and continue to give my expertise. Having covered women's sports

1353
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 6: for as long as I have and feeling like this

1354
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 6: connector between these super rich ownership people that I was

1355
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 6: in a lot of rooms with, and then the players

1356
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 6: that I was in a lot of rooms with. And

1357
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 6: so the Minnesota Aurora FC is a community owned soccer team.

1358
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 6: It's Egan Minnesota, which is right outside Minneapolis, and they

1359
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 6: just rush it for a pre professional team they eventually

1360
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 6: would like to be in the NWSL. The team puts

1361
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 6: together sort of the product with the hopes of eventually

1362
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 6: getting afforded a bid for expansion and becoming a part

1363
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 6: of the NWSL, but for now they're pre profession professional.

1364
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 6: A lot of the players end up going on to

1365
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 6: play professionally, or it's in a place for them to

1366
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 6: play post collegiately as they work to get to a

1367
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 6: pro league. And they've got sick merch, they've got a

1368
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 6: sick fan base. They've been undefeated for three plus years

1369
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 6: and in the regular season, and so when they reached

1370
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 6: out to me, I thought, this is a way to

1371
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 6: get my community of people who listened to a good game.

1372
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 6: We call them the slices, our listeners to understand and

1373
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 6: invest beyond just listening and watching, and if they wanted

1374
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 6: to feel like they were part of something, they could

1375
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 6: buy a little piece. And so it's not like the

1376
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 6: Packers where you get a little piece of paper on

1377
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 6: your wall. It is an actual investment where you're going

1378
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 6: through the full tax proceedings and everything else. But yeah,

1379
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 6: within the two weeks or so of us telling our

1380
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 6: listeners this is going to be our show side, get

1381
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 6: on board if you want, and the closing of their

1382
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 6: most recent campaign raise, we raised over two hundred thousand

1383
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 6: dollars and it wasn't just slices, but a lot of

1384
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 6: it was our listeners. And so I'm actually going to

1385
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 6: get out to my first ORFC game in person and

1386
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 6: bewaring the merch that we made. And yeah, just I

1387
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 6: think it's really important, particularly for women's sports. Now that

1388
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 6: it's getting popular, a lot of people are trying to

1389
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 6: attach themselves to it. Great, I love you know, I'm

1390
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 6: not going to be a hipster. I'm not going to

1391
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 6: be someone who's you know, guarding against joining the fun.

1392
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 6: But put your money where your mouth is, buy the merch,

1393
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 6: go to the games.

1394
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 3: Don't call the.

1395
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 6: People and ask them to put your front row for free.

1396
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 6: My fellow media people who are always sitting front row

1397
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 6: and I'm like, did you pay for that? Because they're

1398
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 6: trying to make money. So I'm spending my money there.

1399
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 6: I'm not asking for favors. I'll ask for favors on

1400
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 6: the men's teams. Those guys can afford it. I want

1401
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 6: the ladies to make money. But yeah, so it's important

1402
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 6: to me to always have some skin in the game,

1403
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 6: not just talk about it, you.

1404
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 1: Know now, I mean listen.

1405
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 2: It's especially doubly important because as women's sports gets more popular.

1406
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: You know, what tends to happen is.

1407
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,919
Speaker 2: That the women that were there building the product get

1408
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 2: pushed out because now these cool people have come along.

1409
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: It's like a.

1410
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 3: Rich, light, middle aged dude with all the money.

1411
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: That gentrification of money starts to happen.

1412
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 2: And so you you certainly I love that, not just you,

1413
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 2: but like so many women I've seen across different women's sports,

1414
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 2: are you know, from Serena to like Cocoa GoF are

1415
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 2: getting invested in this? Before I get to the final

1416
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 2: messy question, what is happening with the Chicago Sky.

1417
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: What is that? I don't know.

1418
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 6: If you saw that Kennedy Carter, I don't know if

1419
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 6: it was sure seemed like she was sending some side

1420
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 6: eye from Afar was one of the Sky's leading scores

1421
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 6: last year. Obviously has a checkered past in the league

1422
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 6: in a couple different stops, is no longer in the league.

1423
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 3: But after they lost again.

1424
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 6: By a record I think close to a record margin,

1425
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 6: Courtney Vanderslot went down with the n ACL tear. She's

1426
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 6: done for the year. Kennedy had some words on threads

1427
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 6: about you know, it all comes back to bite you

1428
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 6: and karme's a bitch and whatever. I'm like, all right,

1429
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 6: let's not let's not celebrate other people's injuries and losses.

1430
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 6: But yeah, it's not looking good, Jamel. And you know

1431
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 6: what's really frustrating is I've been telling everyone to watch

1432
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 6: women's sports for years and now everyone's finally arrived, and

1433
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 6: my teams are sucking. The Chicago Stars suck, Chicago Sky suck.

1434
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 6: I'm like, guys, this is the time we need you

1435
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 6: to be showing up and people can bandwagon because you're

1436
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,200
Speaker 6: winning and it's fun.

1437
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you.

1438
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 6: I think I'm really I'm really bummed about Slute because

1439
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 6: I thought a facilitator to help them really use their

1440
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 6: inside presence with Camilla cardos So and Angel Reese was

1441
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 6: going to be a big game changer this season and

1442
01:08:56,400 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 6: now it's like they have pieces, but they can't make

1443
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 6: them work together.

1444
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm trying to remember what game of Theirs I

1445
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 1: watched in full.

1446
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 2: It was in the in the last week, and I

1447
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 2: was struck by the fact that everybody just looked out

1448
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:10,799
Speaker 2: of place.

1449
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 6: Their decision making is terrible. And I don't want to

1450
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 6: judge their coach. I don't know him at all, and

1451
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 6: he has a good background in a really places reputation. Yeah,

1452
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 6: but I'm like, like just basic stuff where I'm like

1453
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 6: got to call time out there, or like why are

1454
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 6: you putting the ball on the floor, like, and you

1455
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 6: know with Angel Reach, she can be so effective and

1456
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 6: then she makes mistakes that you feel like at this

1457
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 6: point she needs to have learned, including bringing the ball

1458
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 6: down inside. It feels like including she's regress. Yeah, and

1459
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 6: I expected more out of Camilla, to be honest with you,

1460
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 6: But also, she's not going to make her own shots,

1461
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 6: so you have to have the right offense set up.

1462
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 6: They needed three point shooting last year to be able

1463
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 6: to take advantage of their inside presence, and it doesn't

1464
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 6: seem like they've really fixed it in a meaningful way.

1465
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 6: So Yeah, to your point, what I've watched this year.

1466
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 6: They have just not ready or in sync at all,

1467
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:06,600
Speaker 6: and that's frustrating.

1468
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:07,560
Speaker 3: It's frustrating.

1469
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: Man.

1470
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 6: I'm like, we're getting all these people to show up,

1471
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 6: and we got nineteen thousand plus of the United States

1472
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 6: are getting the breaks, beat off and pull it together.

1473
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 2: You're gonna be retiring Candae Parker's jersey soon. Do some exciting,

1474
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 2: show some respect. That was like, oh, you know, listen,

1475
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,839
Speaker 2: always always tell dejective sports fans. It's like, you remember

1476
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 2: these moments because when it turns around me.

1477
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could be like listen, you're talking to a

1478
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 3: Cubs fan.

1479
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you already.

1480
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 3: No one felt it better than us. When it finally happened.

1481
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 3: We were like one hundred and eight years.

1482
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: So you should have in patients that infinite, infinite pas,

1483
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 2: that's for sure.

1484
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 3: But I deserve better to mel Yeah, I deserve I

1485
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:47,680
Speaker 3: deserve It builds character. Notice I can't tell someone from

1486
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 3: Detroit you know how it is?

1487
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 2: Right, exactly exactly, all right, the messy question. That is

1488
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 2: how we did every interview here on politics. This is

1489
01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 2: where we make some blogs, This is where we make

1490
01:10:59,680 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 2: some cock.

1491
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, because we.

1492
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 1: Haven't done enough of that.

1493
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So Sarah, I know you have a

1494
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:07,679
Speaker 2: comedy background.

1495
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:09,520
Speaker 1: You love improv.

1496
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 2: This is you know, something that you have experienced with,

1497
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:14,759
Speaker 2: So I will ask you this.

1498
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: This is start bench cut.

1499
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:23,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Bill Murray, Jim Belushi, Kathy Griffin, start bench cut.

1500
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 1: Those are three very famous Chicago comedians.

1501
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 3: Kathy Griffin's from Chicago.

1502
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,679
Speaker 1: She is from Chicago, that is what I read.

1503
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 3: We never claim her. I don't know if I believe that.

1504
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 3: Are you sure?

1505
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 1: I am pretty sure she is from.

1506
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 3: She might have just like come up in like Second

1507
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 3: City or something.

1508
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: But she's give you another word just in case this

1509
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 1: turns out not to be.

1510
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 3: True Old Park, Illinois.

1511
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 2: Yes, well, yes, she is from Chicago though, but weirdly

1512
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 2: that we don't claim her.

1513
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 3: I wonder if she doesn't come around much and doesn't

1514
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 3: feel us connected.

1515
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: Would you prefer I put Bob Newhart in there, because I.

1516
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,559
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, I mean that's before my time.

1517
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 1: That fucked a little dating. Yeah, what about Bernie Meck Gosh?

1518
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, these are all either deceased or I I'll.

1519
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:13,759
Speaker 3: Stick with your original.

1520
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 6: Okay, And we're talking about their careers and comedy, correct,

1521
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 6: not who they are as human.

1522
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 3: Beings or anything.

1523
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: Not who they are as human beings.

1524
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 6: That's very important, because I know it's hard and I

1525
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 6: don't know all the answers for all the people. So

1526
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 6: I don't want to get myself canceled for supporting someone

1527
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 6: who I didn't realize.

1528
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: Some people have some mixed families about Bill Murray, but

1529
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 1: this is hardly.

1530
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 6: And I have met him a handful of times and

1531
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 6: I've experienced every personality.

1532
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 3: Okay, some of them are great. I'm starting Bill Murray.

1533
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 1: Okay.

1534
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 6: Caddyshack is one of my all time favorite movies. I

1535
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 6: have a Caddyshack themed party in the past. I there

1536
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 6: are infinite spaces of Bill Murray that have brought me joy,

1537
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,560
Speaker 6: including the entire best of Bill Murray, Saturday.

1538
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 3: Live, all that stuff. So Bill Murray is a start.

1539
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 6: I'm in a bench Belushi because again, SNL is just

1540
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 6: my dream job.

1541
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 3: It brought me up.

1542
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 6: I did make a name for myself on Around the Horn,

1543
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:12,839
Speaker 6: repeatedly saying.

1544
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: Yep, over was it over?

1545
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 6: When the Germans bumbling, and then all the young folks

1546
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,799
Speaker 6: would get momenties and'd be like, it wasn't the Germans.

1547
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,679
Speaker 6: I'm like, get some culture, watch a movie, YadA, YadA,

1548
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 6: repeat Prince repeat.

1549
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it.

1550
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 6: I messaged the whole around the Horn crew after my

1551
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 6: final appearance, and I was like, God, damn.

1552
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,040
Speaker 3: How did I forget to say one last time it's

1553
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 3: not over? Was it over? On the last time I

1554
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 3: was on?

1555
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: What it really was over?

1556
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:38,440
Speaker 3: I missed opportunity.

1557
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 6: And then I gotta I gotta cut Kathy. Like Kathy

1558
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,680
Speaker 6: has done some great work. Kathy has been an outspoken

1559
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 6: comedian on the right side of history. But Kathy wasn't

1560
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 6: on SNL and yeah.

1561
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,520
Speaker 2: Oh, poor poor Bob Newhart couldn't.

1562
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 3: And now I'm just gonna go down as women aren't funny.

1563
01:13:58,000 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: Look at me.

1564
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 3: Just pick the two men. See this Strea elevating the men?

1565
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, you're a woman's sports again.

1566
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 3: Or that's right? And I don't know, don't get me

1567
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 3: started on trans inclusion. I'm a real There you go.

1568
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,560
Speaker 3: Now you got your aggregated content.

1569
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 2: And I will piss you off this way before I

1570
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 2: say goodbye. I think the two most overrated comedies.

1571
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 3: Of all time don't take Caddy Sheck.

1572
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 2: Slapshot Okay and Caddy Sheck the two most overrated.

1573
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:33,679
Speaker 6: Slap Shot is Okay, It's got some moments, but it's

1574
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 6: not my favorite.

1575
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 1: But Caddy Sho and I love Stupid.

1576
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 6: You know, how could there's endless avable moments from that?

1577
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 2: That literally the number of times I have tried to

1578
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 2: watch Caddy check and like like it.

1579
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,760
Speaker 3: So let me ask you an important question. What age

1580
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 3: were you when you first watched it?

1581
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 1: Okay?

1582
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 2: I was an adult, but I wasn't a deep adult,

1583
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 2: a deep adult, so like, okay, because I.

1584
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 6: Do think, for instance, like the first time I watched

1585
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 6: Spaceballs early twenties, and I was like, it's fine, people

1586
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 6: like what I'm like. I think some of them you

1587
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 6: have to have the nostalgia of watching it for the

1588
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 6: first time during its time.

1589
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 2: But it's other movies, Like I didn't watch Airplane during

1590
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 2: its time.

1591
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, airplanes classic icking love airplanes.

1592
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 6: That's so weird because I feel like Airplane and Caddyshack

1593
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 6: are very so sympatico.

1594
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 3: Like they've got a vibe. You would think, what do

1595
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 3: you hate gophers?

1596
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 2: And I've taken up golf, so I can't even blame

1597
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 2: That's so weird. Yeah, it's very bizarre. I don't know

1598
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 2: what like the two the probably the two comedies I've

1599
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,919
Speaker 2: been unable to get are that when in Napoleon Dynamite.

1600
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 2: I just don't think Dynamite is funny.

1601
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 6: Napoleon Dynamite's funny, but it's not on the level of Caddyshack.

1602
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 6: I mean, Caddy Shak is literally one of my all

1603
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 6: time favorite movies.

1604
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 3: That's so weird. I'm gonna give such bad taste.

1605
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it a go. I've gotta like this movie.

1606
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 6: It's how do you not like the chocolate bar in

1607
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 6: the pool? How do you not like Rodney Dangerfield's little

1608
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 6: set of golf clubs plays music and pours some madrin

1609
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 6: and I love that you get a free bowl of

1610
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 6: soup with that.

1611
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 1: There's just like, so many good lines. I know it

1612
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 1: is the one.

1613
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 6: And Chevy Chase reportedly problematic human but perfection in that film.

1614
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 1: Uh.

1615
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 2: I love The National like I just it has people

1616
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,560
Speaker 2: in it that I love, Okay, And is that the

1617
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 2: problem there's not any black people. It's not that because

1618
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 2: there's where there's no black people and I like them.

1619
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 6: I gotta get to the root of this. It's just

1620
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 6: it's so good. We got to pull in a pond.

1621
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 6: Pond's good for you. There's so many good lines. It's

1622
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 6: so good.

1623
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get to the root of this era and

1624
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 2: hopefully one day I will report back I finally like

1625
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 2: it after the fifteenth time, it finally fought.

1626
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 6: So you know what'll I'll make you feel better by

1627
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 6: saying something that's gonna piss you off.

1628
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 3: I don't like donuts. I think donuts are bad. You

1629
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 3: know what, Oh you're good.

1630
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:00,639
Speaker 8: Okay, sorry with that one. Like I'm donuts, but I don't.

1631
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 8: I don't crave them like I'm special, all right, And

1632
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 8: I live in the most donut eating ass city and

1633
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 8: like LA is a donut place?

1634
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 6: That didn't sound good? Yeah, you're right crazing, all right. See,

1635
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:16,320
Speaker 6: they probably do do that in La.

1636
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying that Randy's. They got donut places

1637
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 1: in like every quarter. It's a thing.

1638
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 2: But I don't really partake. It's not it's not my jam.

1639
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:29,679
Speaker 2: So I'm fine with that food take.

1640
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: Good, all right. So we won't try to piss any

1641
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:34,480
Speaker 1: more people off. If going to brustas.

1642
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 3: Process just existing. Yes, does the job just fine?

1643
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, Well, thank you Sarah and everybody else. Go

1644
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: buy it Runs in the Family. Yes, it is a

1645
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,680
Speaker 2: great book. I'm sure it'll be a fantastic movie. I

1646
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 2: wish you all the best, all the success to you both.

1647
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 2: You really should be proud of this when you put

1648
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 2: something in here that is going to stay with people

1649
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:55,599
Speaker 2: a long time.

1650
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 1: So good luck with everything. Good luck and appreciate you.

1651
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 3: Thanks Frian.

1652
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 1: One more segment to go coming up next, the Final Spin.

1653
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: Time now for the Final Spin.

1654
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 2: The headline this year's Essence Festival was a dumpster fire.

1655
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 2: The spin yet another example of black people daring one

1656
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 2: another down and holding black organizations to a standard that

1657
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 2: they never hold other organizations to. The truth, some of

1658
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 2: the criticisms of Essence are deserved, and I had a

1659
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 2: feeling that people were going to go into Essence Fest

1660
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 2: being less forgiving because Target is the presenting sponsor for Essence.

1661
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,719
Speaker 2: Though Essence has a multi year partnership with Target, Essence

1662
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 2: was in an impossible spot because a lot of Black folks,

1663
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,600
Speaker 2: especially their core demographic of Black women, are boycotting Target.

1664
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: Over their DEI rollbacks, their.

1665
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 2: Capitulation of Donald Trump and deprioritizing black business. While Essence

1666
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 2: likely would have been in breach of contract had they

1667
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 2: terminated their contract with Target, I kind of raised my

1668
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:08,799
Speaker 2: eyebrow a bit at sn CEO Caroline Winga's recent comments

1669
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 2: about Target.

1670
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I have you here, Caroline, let me ask

1671
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,600
Speaker 5: you about a Target. You were there at Target for

1672
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,800
Speaker 5: I'm not mistaken about fifteen years. At one point I'm

1673
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 5: Chief Diversity Officer. Target has become one of several companies

1674
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 5: in this country that's decided to roll back DEI initiatives.

1675
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 5: What are your thoughts on that?

1676
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 7: So this is going to feel funny because it's going

1677
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 7: to sound like a book plug, but it actually is

1678
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:32,799
Speaker 7: the answer, which is there's a chapter in the book

1679
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 7: called this Ain't Scrabble, and that chapter is tied to

1680
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 7: my perspective as a DEI practitioner. Yes, I did some

1681
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 7: work at Target, but just it became an extension of

1682
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 7: who I was, and the point that I made there

1683
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:47,599
Speaker 7: was too. The first one was it doesn't matter what

1684
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 7: or you order. You put the letters in id D

1685
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:51,520
Speaker 7: and IDP whatever.

1686
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 1: The work is.

1687
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 7: The work Number one, do the work, leave the letters.

1688
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 7: Number two. If you do this thing right, you create

1689
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 7: a way that gives goals that can be measured to

1690
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 7: incent people into the behavior. Eventually the goal goes away

1691
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 7: because the behavior is embedded and you pick the next thing. Sure,

1692
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 7: Target embedded and took away the goal. They didn't walk

1693
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 7: away from Dei. They trained it right. And so for

1694
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:18,680
Speaker 7: me as a practitioner, getting this ain't scrabble if you

1695
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 7: want to know more. But my point is this, I

1696
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 7: think we get caught up in the mechanics, like the

1697
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:26,600
Speaker 7: letters of DEI. Now you want to be belonging. The

1698
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:28,600
Speaker 7: work is still the same, right like, and so I

1699
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 7: think we allow ourselves.

1700
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 3: To be distracted.

1701
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 7: And the things that are easy to argue about, it's

1702
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 7: not because the work is harder.

1703
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 6: It's the goal.

1704
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 3: It's the goal and the.

1705
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,879
Speaker 7: Expectation that you do the goal. Well, you don't need.

1706
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:39,679
Speaker 3: The goal for that anymore.

1707
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 1: Now.

1708
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 2: I didn't expect her or anyone else at Essence to

1709
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 2: just take off on Target or its cowardly capitulation, But

1710
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 2: putting a cape over the puddle for them was ton that.

1711
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 2: The reason Target partnered with Essence is because they have

1712
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,680
Speaker 2: the same demo. The Aunties love them some Target, but

1713
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 2: this year a lot of the Aunties weren't feeling Essence

1714
01:20:56,479 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 2: or targeted, and they have let it be known. Across

1715
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 2: social media were widespread complaints about costs the concerts lasted

1716
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 2: until damn near sunrise because of poor planning and too

1717
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 2: many performers, the decrease in vendors, and just a general

1718
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 2: lack of organization and professionalism. Now, I've been to Essence

1719
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:15,679
Speaker 2: multiple times and some of these things are just things

1720
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:17,920
Speaker 2: that happen every year. But I think because of the

1721
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,679
Speaker 2: polarizing partnership with Target and the unwillingness to at least

1722
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:25,200
Speaker 2: indicate a displeasure with how Target was moving, that led

1723
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 2: people to be far less forgiving of Essence than they

1724
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 2: normally are. This concludes another episode of Politics. Get at

1725
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 2: me on social media or email. I'm at Jamail Hill

1726
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 2: across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram, fan Base, Blue

1727
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 2: Scott Athris, Please use the hashtags politics. You also have

1728
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 2: the option of emailing me as Politics twenty twenty four

1729
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. You can also video me your question,

1730
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 2: but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less. Don't

1731
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 2: forget to follow and subscribe to Politics on iHeart and follows,

1732
01:21:55,560 --> 01:22:00,759
Speaker 2: Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled sbo Rits.

1733
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,720
Speaker 2: A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart Podcasts,

1734
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:09,640
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics,

1735
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 2: where sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Politics

1736
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 2: is the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network.

1737
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:25,839
Speaker 2: I'm Your Host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne.

1738
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 2: Lucas Hymen is Head of Audio and executive producer. Original

1739
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:33,919
Speaker 2: music for Spolitics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz FX