1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: All Media. Welcome to you kadapp here a podcast that 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: is groaning under the oppression of whoever keeps changing the 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: stupid zoom interface. It's different every time. It always gets worse. 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: It never gets better. Please stop. 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: We had trads for zoom zoom layout. 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Just get it, get it one time, put the recording 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: thing on the stupid panel on the bottom, and then 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: never change it. It simply never gets better. Yeah, this 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: is be a who's extremely annoyed at zoom with me? 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 3: Is James yep also extremely annoyed at zoom high just 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 3: in solidarity with Mia fuck him? 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and also also extremely annoyed. Right now is the 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: man stages the world's worst coup? Ask to report to prison. 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 3: I don't think we can call it the world's worst coup. Mia, 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 3: that's a bold claim. You're forgetting silver Core. 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: No, so okay, here's the thing about Silver Court, right, 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: The guys who defeated Silver Court had guns. 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: But Silver Corp didn't. They had b B guns. 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, but here's the thing, right they they those guys Again, 20 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: those guys did not have real guns, defeated by guys 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: with guns. These guys had guns. They had a lot 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: of guns. They were defeated by people with. 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,639 Speaker 3: Flags Yeah yeah, and a guy standing in a doorway 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 3: being like, no, you can't come in, go home. 25 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: You know, so we we are. 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: I genuinely believe this is the worst cup I've ever 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: seen in my entire life. 28 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: And you know, we lived in Venezuela. One. 29 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: I distinctly remember stepping out of a post office and 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: checking my phone and getting eighteen messages from my friends 31 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: that said, do. 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: You do you? 33 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: What do you know about the coup and Turkey? That 34 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: was a terrible coup. Was they they could have they 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: could have just saved us all this trouble of shot 36 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: aired wh douf a jet fighter, but they didn't. You know, 37 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: there's there's been plenty of bad ones. There was that 38 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: that coup recently in the Democratic public of the Congo 39 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: to the fiasco. Yeah, hilariously, This coup Oblivia recovering today 40 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: happened exactly one year and three days after the the 41 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: march of the Wagner Corp. 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've gotta forgot about that one. What if? Wow? Yeah, 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: well we wanted to try it. 44 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: Guys, if you believe you can achieve, give it a 45 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 3: go to a coup. If you want to why not 46 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 3: it's gonna trump paye try one did what very well? Yeah? 47 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we really I also, I mean, we 48 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: can't forget January ninth, even the. 49 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: The well, I don't. 50 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: I don't because January sixth was already farce, but like 51 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: we forgot the farceest, farst version of it in Brazil. 52 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: Yeah even there. Yeah, yeah, they owed a building coup. 53 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, lots of lots of very stupid cues, but this 54 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: this is probably the worst one. And so we're going 55 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: to be explaining sort of what happened. But the thing 56 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: about this coup is that in order to understand what's 57 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: happening with this coup, we have to get through, I 58 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: think a part of Bolivian history that has not been 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: really well understood or talked about on the left, which 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: is effectively what happened in Bolivia. 61 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: After the coup in twenty nineteen. 62 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: I think I think people sort of know that there 63 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: was a coup and that got overturned, but coma that 64 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: was sort of the point at which which the sort 65 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: of Anglo media and like the sort of press that 66 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: hits the left here kind of just took off. So 67 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: you have your sort of twenty nineteen coup. The place 68 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: where sort of everything getting lost kind of starts is 69 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: that so there's this coup. The left sort of response 70 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: to the coup is not very strong because the sort 71 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: of social movements have been hallowed out by the sort 72 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: of incorporation into the Bolivian state, so they sort of 73 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: just don't have the juice to really kind of you know, 74 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: roll this coup back. This is this is this is 75 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: makes basically this is the twenty nineteen coup, not the 76 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four coup. 77 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 78 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: And you know the thing about the twenty nineteen coup 79 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: that makes it very different from this one is that 80 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: that one was you know, there was a broad base 81 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: of support for this right in this sort of in 82 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: this sort of like far right out of Santa Cruz 83 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: and also out of sort of like like more moderate 84 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: center right factions. So you know, there there are sort 85 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: of large street with favor of this. This is not 86 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: true if those recent. 87 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 3: One yeah, absolutely not. 88 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know in by by by twenty twenty, 89 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: as twenty twenty is sort of progressing a Anya's's coup 90 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: government is a fiasco. Their management of COVID is just terrible. 91 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: Enormous numbers of deaths. I mean, actually I mean not 92 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: by American standards, I guess, but you know, really really mismanaged. 93 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,559 Speaker 1: I mean, my I have friends there who were talking 94 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: about how if you were going to the hospital and 95 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: you needed to use like a piece of medical equipment, 96 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: you had to buy the medical equipment or a part 97 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: to fix a machine and then show up to the 98 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: hospital with the part because they couldn't order it. 99 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 100 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 3: I've yeah, I've seen that in a few places in 101 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 3: the world. It's never, never a good time. 102 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not good. It was a real shit show. 103 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: And by by sort of I think about September early 104 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: September twenty ninth of twenty twenty, there are the left 105 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: has sort of gotten it shipped together and there are 106 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: these this massive set of roadblocks. Bolivian Blivion social politics 107 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: tends to sort of be about roadblocks because you know, country, 108 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: a lot of mountains, a lot of roads you can 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: very easily block off and then prevent anything from you know, 110 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: for example, entering a city, yep. Idea. So they're they're 111 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: able to just basically shut down the Blivion economy. The 112 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: government is once again on the Vergia collapse and once again, 113 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: and we'll get to the first time this happened, but 114 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: even Morallies once again sort of pulls the supporters off 115 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: of the barricade so you can go win an election 116 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: rather than you know, attempt to just bring down the 117 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: sort of coup government. So you know that eventually happens. 118 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: The government is forced to hold elections because you know, 119 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: they've they've lost control of the country, and them as Takes, 120 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: you know, wins this election by overwhelming margins. The MAS 121 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: is even Morales's party, it's the sort of like party. 122 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: Of the oblivion left. But yeah, the guy comes to 123 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: the power. As Lewis R. 124 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: Say, he's an interesting figure because he is kind of 125 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: We're going to get more into sort of what the 126 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: MS is in a bit, but he is from a 127 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: kind of right wing of the party that's not talked 128 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:36,559 Speaker 1: about very much. 129 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, he he is. 130 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: A you know, he's not a guy who comes from 131 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: the social movements in the way that sort of Morales did, 132 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: like he was. Even Morales was a guy from the 133 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: the he was like the president of the coca growers union. 134 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: Arsay is a banker. He's an an economist and a banker. 135 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: He comes out of the the Central Bank of Bolivia, 136 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: and he he has had been kind of the guy 137 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: running living economic policy. But but he is from the 138 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: developmentalist wing of the party, which means he is effectively 139 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: from the wing of the party that are the kind 140 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: of like center left capitalists that the social movements kind 141 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: of allied themselves to under Moralees in order to do 142 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: this sort of national economic development policy. So these are 143 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: a lot of these are a lot of minding sector guys. 144 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: These are a very specific sort of cadra of these 145 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: central bank guys, you know. 146 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: And and I think this is the part. 147 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: The thing about the MIAs that's kind of relevant here 148 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: is that it usually also has a base support among 149 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: people you wouldn't expect. I mean, there's a lot of 150 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: small business owners who support them, because, you know, the 151 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: Maas really did for most of the time they've been 152 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: in power preside over sort of astonishing economic growth. They 153 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: sort of did this by marrying these social movements to 154 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: this kind of national bourgeoisie developmentalist faction. 155 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 156 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: And the other thing that that the MAAS sort of 157 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: does in the period between when they come back to 158 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: power in late twenty twenty one and now is they 159 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: do they actually go after the people who did the coup? 160 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: Right? 161 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: And yes, who was the previous president is just in 162 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: prison for helping you do the coup. The the other 163 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: big person who's been arrested is Luis Fernando Camacho, who 164 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: is a man who, in one hundred percent complete seriousness 165 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: calls himself Bascho Camacho. So that's that's a sign, Yeah, 166 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: that that's an oication of who this guy is, which 167 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:34,359 Speaker 1: is he is a really fanatical, really fanatical Christian nationalist. 168 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: He's playing a very similar role to I mean, actually 169 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: I think even even in a lot of ways sort 170 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: of more radical role to what Bolsonaro played in Brazil, 171 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 1: where Camacho in Bolivia is this kind of he he's 172 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: the guy who's rallied both sort of Evangelicalism and Catholicism. 173 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: Althose rallied both of them into this sort of virulent 174 00:08:54,960 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: and and and specifically in Bolivia anti indigenous sort of 175 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: political force. The the twenty nineteen coup is seen in 176 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: very very explicitly is seen in religious terms. 177 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: Both ideas. 178 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: Kabacha talk about how like the Word of God is 179 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: back at the Capitol and the wheel, but like all 180 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: of the sort of indigenous various indigenous stuff is just 181 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: never going to come back. So Kabacho gets arrested in 182 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two for you know, doing this coup, and 183 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: this sets off so he, by the way, like is 184 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: the governor of the state of Santa Cruz. And this 185 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: sets off a bunch of like a right wing general strike, 186 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of riots, like hundreds of people are injured 187 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: in street fighting between his sort of fanatics and everyone 188 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: else in the country. It does an enormous amount of 189 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: economic damage. It sets off at a roadblocks the government, 190 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: I mean Kamacho I think also is still in prison, 191 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: but it kind of you know, the government's kind of 192 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: forced to make concessions. 193 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: To these people. 194 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: So, you know, the whole the whole sort of are say, 195 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: government is kind of on shaky footing from the beginning. 196 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: And all of this is before the Bolivian economy really 197 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: hits the ship. But before before we get to the 198 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: Bolivian economy. Do you know what else hits the ship? 199 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: Oh uh? 200 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 3: Is it the meal kit preparation delivery service that we 201 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 3: are not allowed to mention for legal reason. It is, yes, yeah, yes, yeah, 202 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 3: you'll be pooping your brains out, don't do it. 203 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: We are back. So let's talk about the other thing 204 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: that's popping in Bolithya. 205 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: Well, okay, see other. 206 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: Thing, the one of the four other things that's reppening 207 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,119 Speaker 1: in Bolivia, and that. 208 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 2: Is the real sort of collapse of the Bolivian economy. 209 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: So the Bolivion economy Oblivia has been kind of different 210 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: from the rest of the sort of kind of left wing, 211 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: pink tied governments that were elected in the in the 212 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: in the sort of two thousands era sort of anti 213 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: globalization politics. Most of those countries' economies imploded a long 214 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: time ago, like Venezuela sort of obviously the most famous case, 215 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: but all of these economies fell apart because these were 216 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: all economies based on the commodity boom. We've talked about 217 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: this in some of our Brazil episodes. But the very 218 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: short version is that a lot of a lot of 219 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: countries that produce sort of primary commodities, so like you know, 220 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: your copper, your sort of your natural gas, you know, 221 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: I mean things like soybeans to kind of fall in 222 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: this category, you know, so you're you're you're sort of 223 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: mining stuff or you're some some of some of your 224 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: farming stuff. All of these sort of industrial input primary 225 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: commodity stuff all got you know, massive price spikes in 226 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: early two thousands because the Chinese economy had integrated into 227 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: into the rest of the world economy fully by you know, 228 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: joining the joining the World Trade Organization, and this set 229 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: off this massive industrialization boom in China, and you know, 230 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: the Chinese. The levels of sort of demand that this 231 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: induces is unbelievable because Chinese economic growth in that period 232 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: is unreal, and it's it's economic growth that is unreal 233 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: in a country with a billion people in it. So 234 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: this produced a kind of shock of demand for all 235 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: of these sort of mineral resources that was not entirely 236 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: unprecedented but enormously large, and also allowed all of these 237 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: sort of social democratic economies to you know, kind of 238 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: paper over the inherent contradictions of their base being both 239 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: capitalist and also a bunch of like unions by there 240 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: just sort of being enough state revenue from all of 241 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: these all of these exports to just kind of buy 242 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: everyone off of paper everything. Clantalism, yeah, yeah, and that 243 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: stops working when the economy goes under. But Bolivia's economy 244 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: does a lot better than the rest of the economies 245 00:12:59,360 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: in the region. 246 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: There are There are a lot of reasons for this. 247 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: Part of it is that, you know, are say, who 248 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: is running the economy of Bolivia in the sort of 249 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: the period like post two thousand and eight period, when 250 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: everyone else economies are collapsing. He is genuinely doing some 251 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: pretty interesting macroeconomic stuff. Also, the other thing that's going 252 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: on is that Bolivia main expert and people. Okay, so 253 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: people in the US tend to think of Bolivia as 254 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: a country that produces lithium. That's not true. That might 255 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: be true maybe thirty years in the future that will 256 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: be Bolivia's primary export. But Bolivia's primary export for the 257 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: last two decades has been natural gas, and natural gas 258 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: prices didn't quite do the same thing that sort of 259 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: oil prices did that kind of imploded the Venezuelan economy. Yeah, 260 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: and so through through sort of like economic management and 261 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: these sort of political alliances and you know, the high 262 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: price in natural gas, the Bolivian economy has sort of 263 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: been fine. Unfortunately, what's happening right now is that Bolivia 264 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: is running out of natural gas. And because it's running 265 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: out of natural gas, and also because their economy is 266 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: an export based economy based on natural. 267 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: Gas, not so good nutsge good vibes. Yeah, it's very bad. 268 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: The entire economy is falling apart because you know, this 269 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: is this is a very very classic kind of economic crisis, 270 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, the economic crisis are having. I'm not seeing 271 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: it described as a balance of payments crisis, but that's 272 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: what it is, which is that the blivid economy works 273 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: on buying things with American dollars. So you know, like 274 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the businesses in the country involved are 275 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: sort of import businesses, right, you know, I mean I 276 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: know people who run businesses like this in Bolivia where 277 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: you know, you're importing shoes or like motors, yeah, stuff 278 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: like that, and you buy them with American dollars and 279 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: you sell them in Bolivia. But the thing is this 280 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: requires a constant supply of American dollars to go buy 281 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: good manufacture goods from other places. Because Bolivia's manufacturing economy 282 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: is effectively is a joke. And this is something that 283 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: was true of all of these economies. I mean, Bolivia 284 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: never they kind we've tried to industrialize in the seventies, 285 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: but they've never got as far along with it as 286 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: a country like Brazil or country like Venezuela. 287 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: Did in the seventies. 288 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: And the other thing about these all these sort of 289 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: pink Tai governments is they all took power in economies 290 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: that have been completely deindustrialized maneoliberalism. Right. 291 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: We talked about this with Brazil. 292 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: Brazil went from a country that was a kind of 293 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: like effectively a first not quite a first, right, but 294 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: maybe a second tier a large, a powerful second tier 295 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: industrial power to a country whose economy is almost entirely 296 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: based on sort of primary commodity production and farming bullshit. 297 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: So they've they've moved down that they've moved down the 298 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: value chain. They've been manufacturing less stuff. They're producing shit 299 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: that's on the bottom. They're getting less value from the 300 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: value added bullshit moving up the chain. And this is 301 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: this is also the problem with the Blivion economy. And 302 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: because the natural gases is drying up, they don't have 303 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: enough dollars coming into the economy for people to use 304 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: to buy things. And the Bolivian currency is also pegged 305 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: to the dollar, right, so there's supposed to be an 306 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: official exchange rate at which you know, x amount of 307 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: money worth x amount of dollars and that's all falling apart. 308 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: People are sort of running around in the streets trying 309 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: to find people who will exchange like their currency for dollars. 310 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: This is this is you know, so this is this 311 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: is a classic short of balance of payments. Yeah, well 312 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of because it's kind of like kind of 313 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: a balancing, but they're having a giant dollar shortage. This 314 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: is really really messing up. No, I mean not just 315 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: the economy, but the entire political system is really kind 316 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: of coming apart under this Now, okay, I I I 317 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: talked about things kind of coming apart there there there 318 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: is another thing that is coming apart in Bolivia, which 319 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: is the m A S is shattering, Yes, shattering, it's 320 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: it's it's splintering in two. So what is the m 321 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: A S. So the m AS is this part? Oh okay, 322 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: So it has a slightly weirder history, which is that 323 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: So the m A S was a completely random, actually 324 00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: kind of kind of right wing political party, but it 325 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: had electoral status. So it's a party that was taken 326 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: over by the social movements at the end of the 327 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: sort of stuff we're going to get to in order 328 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: to be able to run like in order to be 329 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: able to run candidates for office. But this means that 330 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: because again because it was literally it was an existing, legal, 331 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: registered party that was taken over from the outside, and 332 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: because of how it emerged, it's always been seen as 333 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: sort of a movement party, right, it's supposed to be 334 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: like the assembly of Oblivia, sort of left. 335 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: Wing social movements. 336 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: And these left wing social movements are the movements that 337 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: emerges isn't quite the right word, but there the movements 338 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: that solidified and began to sort of exert their power 339 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: from two thousand and two thousand and six and in 340 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: this enormous sequence of social uprising against sort of Bolivia 341 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: and neoliberalism. Of the most famous of these are the 342 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: water and gas wars, which are these fights against water 343 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: privatization and the sort of gas line. 344 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: And this alliance of. 345 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: Peasant unions sort of the traditional sort of urban urban 346 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: sort of proletariat like traditional sort of like urban left. 347 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: These these new street movements, coca growers unions, miners unions, 348 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: and a whole array of indigenous groups that we frankly 349 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: do you don't have time to get into here because 350 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: the politics there are extremely the philosophy is extremely complicated. 351 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if I've talked about this on the 352 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: show before, but one of the I mean we're talking 353 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: about like like they have like philosophical constructs that I 354 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: don't understand. It's this philosophical construct that's like a dialectic, 355 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: but there's three parts of it, and they don't it 356 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: doesn't resolve. They just all kind of grind intension with 357 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: each other, right, So like, Okay, we're not really going 358 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: to get into that. Yeah, yeah, it's outside the scope 359 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: of the show of If you're more interested in this, 360 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: read rhythms of the Patchacuti or get a doctorate. 361 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, yeah, we returned to grad school. Your 362 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: options are limited. 363 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: But you know, so there's this coalition of of all 364 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: of the kinds of unions, these rural unions, urban unions, 365 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: urban street moves, real straight movements, gathered together, gathered their strength, 366 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: set up a million roadblocks, and just. 367 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 2: Smash the neoliberal right. They are. 368 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: The Bolivia's right is basically completely destroyed from the period 369 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: of two thousand and six until twenty nineteen's that was 370 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: the first time they ever took power. They did it 371 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: in a coup and they held power for about one 372 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: year before they were kicked out of power again, so 373 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: they basically completely reshaped all of politics in Bolivia. Those 374 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: the second round of roadblocks very nearly destroyed the Bolivian 375 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: state until as I sort of allated to earlier even 376 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: where Allies pulled his supporters out the barricade in order 377 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: to get an election in two thousand and six. And 378 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: this is the election the MAAS one. And to understand 379 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: the kind of seismic change of this, right, the MAAS 380 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: is the first party in the history of Bolivia to 381 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: win a majority of the season of the Parliament by itself, 382 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: first party ever. It completely destroyed the existing sort of 383 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: political system. And again this this, this was supposed to 384 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: be a sort of a sort of new kind of party. Right. 385 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: The theory of the m AS is is the organization 386 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: of social movements. Former vice president and sometimes Marxist Garcia 387 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: Leneira described it as quote, there's a dialectical relationship between 388 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: the social movements and the party. Now this is a lie. 389 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: Or more precisely, if this is a dialectic, it is 390 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: not a Hegelian or a Marxist dialectic, where the subplation 391 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: of two parts creates a concrete totality or a whole 392 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: that is neither of the things that as for it. 393 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: This is a Maoist dialectic where two sides face off 394 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: each other with each other and one of them hits 395 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: the other side of the help with a hammer until 396 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: it dies. 397 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 2: It's just a conflict. 398 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 3: It's just there are two three people and they both 399 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 3: want to control the thing. 400 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 1: So it's just that's that's what ends up happening, right, 401 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: is so the social movements and the Indigenous movements in 402 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: particular have been fracturing for a decade. You know, they're 403 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: they're a whole series of large fights, even even in 404 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: sort of like the early twenty tens over sort of 405 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: over the NAS doing these infrastructure things that everyone else 406 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: in the country was like, why are you building a 407 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: road to indigenous land. 408 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: There's huge fights, many such cases. 409 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, you know, this is the kind of hollowing 410 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: out in the kind of conflict that had led to 411 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: the social movements being completely unable to overturn the coup 412 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, and it taking them until the end 413 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty to really pull their shit together and 414 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, overturn the coup and you know, you know 415 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: what else overturns coups. 416 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 2: That's a that's a fyrom. It is it arming the 417 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: working class. 418 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: It is ming the working class. 419 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 2: We are sponsored by yeah, or in the entire working class. 420 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: We're back. So okay, So now we get to the 421 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 2: present split of the social movements. 422 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: What has happened now is that you know, are Say 423 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: and and even Morales had always kind of gotten along usually, 424 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: but once you know, our Say took power, he instead 425 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: of he didn't want to sort of just be a 426 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: proxy for even Morales. He had his own sort of 427 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: actually like not great agenda either, a sort of more 428 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: technocratic agenda. Although you know, you have to sort of 429 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: ask Evil, like you're the one who brought these people 430 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: into the party, Like, I don't know what you were expecting. 431 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: He brought these people in that they weren't going to 432 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: as governed as a sort of center left technocratic capitalist government. 433 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: You know, you could have seen this coming. 434 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: But they they have been increasingly fighting, and the two 435 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: sides are now implacably hostile. They are saying evil fucking 436 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: hate each other. And this this divide has split every 437 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: single social movement in Bolivia from landless workers' movement, to 438 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: the co growers, to the indigenous federations, to the fucking 439 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: urban trade unions, to the miners unions. Every one of 440 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: these organizations either has officially split into two factions as 441 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: one's in EVO faction and ones in our Save faction, 442 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: or they are in the middle of the fight where 443 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're they're both sides are still fighting. 444 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: For control over over you know, their union federation. 445 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: And this is not a clean left right split, which 446 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: is this is actually, I mean, that was kind of 447 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: what I was expecting ish when this fight started, that 448 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: I was sort of expecting that this was going to 449 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: end up as a fight between sort of you know, 450 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: the left of social movements and the sort of center 451 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: right base. 452 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: But that's not really what happens. 453 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: It is kind of a left right split, but you know, 454 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: it's also a split over the person of EVO himself. 455 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: And because partially a split over EVO himself, there's a 456 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: lot of like sort of more left wing groups that 457 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: are kind of are kind of backing our say, because 458 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: they don't want even more allies to come back into 459 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: power and re solidify his control over all of these 460 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: all the solo social movements and they're you know, angry 461 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: at him for a whole series of attempts to sort 462 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: of co opt their movements. It's also you know, it's 463 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: also it's also split about sort of how autonomous the 464 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: social movement should be, should be able to be from 465 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: government policy. It's it's a it's you know, it's kind 466 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: of external to this. But one of the other thing 467 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: that's going on is that EVO has been really unpopular 468 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: with a lot of feminist groups in Blivia for a 469 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: very long time for a lot of reasons, including I mean, 470 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, one of the big ones is Bolivia's horrific 471 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: femicide crisis, which the MS has been in power for 472 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: almost twenty years and has done jack shit to actually 473 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: like deal with, right, you know, So there's there, there 474 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: are all of these sort of fractures breaking out. Partially also, 475 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: it's a war between for control of the maas, between 476 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: the coca goers unions and the miners unions. So this 477 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: is a shit show. It is a complete fiasca. And 478 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: then you know, the thing that makes it more with 479 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: fiasco is, you know, we talked about this sort of 480 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: with uh. We did an episode about kind of what's 481 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: been happening with with the sort of pink. 482 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 2: Tied governments a while back. 483 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things you talked about 484 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: in that episode was Ecuador, where Ecuador has this left 485 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: wing base that should win every single election until the 486 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: end of time, and they don't because they're constantly fighting 487 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,719 Speaker 1: each other. And this is effectively the beginning of hopefully 488 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't turn into that, but I mean, the ma 489 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: S if it is, if it is even sort of united, 490 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: is in unprecedented Bolivian political juggernaut. It should win every election, 491 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: like I mean, not till the end of time. They 492 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: probably probably should only win I don't know that they 493 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: have had demographic issues right now, but you know they 494 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: should still be winning effectively every every election and they're not. 495 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: And the reason that they're not is because of this 496 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: shit or loasion. They might not is because of because 497 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: of all of these, all all of these splits, and 498 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: these are very these this isn't a these are very 499 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: very serious political splits. I mean, uh, one of the 500 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: miners workers meetings, very famously, the two sides broke into 501 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: into fist fights. I think one hundred and forty people 502 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: were injured. So you know, this is this is the 503 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: these are the these are very serious fights. There's also 504 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: a whole disaster right now over who actually is the 505 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: candidate of the MAS. Because Evo held this Congress of 506 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: the NAS it was his supporters that Arsei was not 507 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: at and they said that because he didn't because Arsee 508 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: didn't show up, he was kicked out of the party. 509 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: Classic, so this is this whole thing. So he's typically 510 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: been expelled. 511 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: But like the courts got the electoral courts are now 512 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: involved because the electoral courts have to decide what like 513 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: you know that, they have to figure out what what 514 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: candidate their party's running. So it's this it's a complete catastrophe. 515 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,239 Speaker 1: And in the midst of this complete catastrophe there is 516 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: the worst coup of the twenty first century. So a 517 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: lot of let's get into finally this coup. So this 518 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: coup is run by a guy named Kwan Jose Zunjega 519 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: is the he's the commander of the Bolivian Army. He 520 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: is hand picked by Arsaye to run the army, to 521 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: be the guy who. 522 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: Yes, say dude, yeah. 523 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: And this is you know this, this this has sort 524 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: of shades of the fact that Pinochet was sort of 525 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: elevated by by all End in the Social Democrats. 526 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: But reminds me of Franco as well, that getting promoted 527 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 3: about yeah this was this, those were tragedy, This is farce. 528 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: So what happens is that on Tuesday of last week, 529 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: Sniega goes on TV and says, I am going to 530 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: like Louis evil Brallies cannot be allowed to take power again. 531 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: I will stop him from taking power. And our say 532 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: is like, dude, what the fuck? Just immediately fires him, 533 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: because you know you can't do that. 534 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like almost every every country with a codified constitution 535 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 3: has prohibitions on its military intervening and its politics, right, like, yeah, 536 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 3: the basics of democracy. 537 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: Bolivia has had a series of military governments and military 538 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: ques across the sort of twentieth century, including the god 539 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: the fucking cocaine coup that I've talked about at length 540 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: in Our World at the Communist League episodes that ends 541 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: with like Klaus Barbie fucking running around, right, So I mean, 542 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, like, this is a country that has had 543 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: military ques quite literally staffed by actual Nazis, right, So 544 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: you know this this is a place that take that 545 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: takes the threat of a military queue, very very seriously, 546 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: there hasn't been one, blessedly in a long time, but 547 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who are fucking alive for 548 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: the last one, and you know, and so this this 549 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: is you know, people are extremely unhappy, even people who 550 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: I think in theory would be okay with, you know, 551 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: the government being deposed, like absolutely, under no circumstances want 552 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: the fucking military running the country because again, right, everyone 553 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: fucking remembers how bad that shit was. But what appearstrauff 554 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: happened is that Zaninka realizes that so he's just been fired, right, 555 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: which means that he has a very short time window 556 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: in which he could try to pull some shit, which 557 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: means that whatever whatever he may have been planning, I 558 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: don't know what his actual plans were, he may have 559 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: been actually planning a coup, he may not have been 560 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: until here, and which just immediately like, well, I guess 561 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: we have to do it now. If it was planning, 562 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: been planning very well, yeah, yeah, what results from this 563 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: for this very I think results on this very short 564 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: timetable is the worst coup I've ever seen. So what 565 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: appears to have happened is that on Wednesday, he gathers 566 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: the troops that he's able to gather, which is not 567 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: that I mean we're talking like a hundred guys. Maybe 568 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: it was not a you know, they had a decent 569 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: number of armored vehicles, but it was not like a 570 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: lot of troops. 571 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 3: It does not pay that he even had the support 572 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 3: of a lot of troops, right. 573 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, a lot of the army suits have kind 574 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: of been sitting there going what the fuck is going on? 575 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: But it was you know, I was watching the videos 576 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: or were like the livestreams from journalism the ground of 577 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: these troops, and they're just they're just worth it, any 578 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: of them. 579 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 2: No, they really went like it was. 580 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 3: The whole thing was just really fucking shocking, like shocking bad. 581 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 2: They didn't even surround the building. They just went up 582 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 2: to one door. 583 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so so what happens is they used our vehicle 584 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: to ram the door of the presidential palace and they 585 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: try to take control of it. But the thing is right, 586 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: are saying, is it in the presidential palace? He and 587 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: his cabinet are in the next building over. 588 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: So they've taken the wrong building. 589 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: Things are going great, and again this this is not 590 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: a sort of you know, this is not a coupe 591 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: that follows the standard coup repertoire of I seize the 592 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: president's sees the radio station, sees the airport, sees the trains, right, yeah, 593 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: and have been tray control over the military barracks, which 594 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: is your short this is your sort of basic five 595 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: step plan to how to do a coup. 596 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 3: They will be doing that episode soon by the way. Yeah, yeah, 597 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 3: given today's to find court, we're in there. 598 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, we're in the yeah, planning to do a coup. 599 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: But you know, so they don't even receive a part one, 600 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: so they're they're kind of just kind of milling around 601 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: the front of the presidential palace and try to get 602 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: into the next building where the president actually is. So 603 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: it's also the demands are also very weird. So Nika 604 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: claims that he's not overthrowing the governments. He claims that 605 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: he's still loyal to our say, but he's going to 606 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: form a new cabinet. 607 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: Oh he's useful. Yeah, that's how you normally do that. Yeah. 608 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: So he's like yelling about the economic crisis, says he's 609 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: going to quote restored democracy and quote release political prisoners. 610 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 2: Which I kind of get. 611 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: Okay, So the political prisoner's thing, I think is about 612 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: the people who've been arrested for doing the twenty nineteen coup. 613 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: I have no idea what restored democracy means. I don't 614 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,479 Speaker 1: know if he had any idea what he meant by 615 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: restored democracy. Something was happening. But the thing is the 616 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: other thing about this coup is that he has no 617 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: backing at all. I mean, it doesn't even have back 618 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: in the army. But it has no It doesn't even 619 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: have backing among the right. Both Macho Camacho and Jeanine 620 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: on Ony you with people who did like the last one, 621 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: both condemned the coup. So people she is trying to 622 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: break out of prison condemned the coup. Right, this is 623 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: going nowhere. 624 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 2: Worst coup I've ever seen. 625 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: So meanwhile are say it is cabinet are in the 626 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: next building over appointing a new commander of the army, 627 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: so that the new commander of the army can go 628 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: outside and order them order the troops to go back 629 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: to their barracks. This is kind of what's happening. But 630 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: also meanwhile outside so that these troops have like taken 631 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: over the square in front of the presidential Palace and 632 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: that they have sort of successfully managed to take over 633 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: the square with a bunch of sort of military police 634 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: and riot gear. 635 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: But there's this sort of crowd who's. 636 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: Come to yell at the army, right, and it's just 637 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: very weird spectacle because it's there's all these soldiers who 638 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: all have long guns, right, being protected by a light 639 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: of cops with riot shields. 640 00:32:59,400 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 641 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, like if you open up on the crowd like like, oh, yeah, 642 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 3: I have enough numbers to get. 643 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: Every every single one of you is going to be 644 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: individually executed. 645 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, So they're all people are gonna have guns. 646 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: And unless they that that that you know, and when 647 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: I say execute, I mean they're they're gonna get executed 648 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: by the goverment. That that's assuming they live long enough 649 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: and are not just beaten to death by the crowd, 650 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: which is also a real possibility. But you know, so 651 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: this crowd is sort of approaching a lot of riot police. 652 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: They're getting tear gas a bit. But this is and 653 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: I kind of emphasize this enough, This is not a 654 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: kind of normal like highly organized Bolivian mass protest where 655 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, all of the union, the Union's college general. 656 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 2: Strike in the middle of this. 657 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, but again, this this whole thing lasts maybe two 658 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: and a half hours, so there's not time to do 659 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: the actual kind of sort of roadblocks and stuff like that. 660 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: There's not time to actually do the organization that you 661 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: would need to do. 662 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 2: Overturn this coup. 663 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: This coup falls apart so fast that people don't have 664 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: time to make protest signs only have our flags. They 665 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,479 Speaker 1: do not have time to write signs out. That is 666 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: that they don't have time to go up with chance. 667 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: I was watching the funniest part about this whole thing. 668 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: So I was watching a live stream of the protesters, 669 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: and the protesters had gotten this kind of I guess 670 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: you call it sort of a kind of metal gate. 671 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: I guess it was this big sort of it almost 672 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: looked like, you know how there's you get this those 673 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: white shelves that have like metal bars, and it was 674 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: kind of like that like cross hashed. 675 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: It was, you know, it was pretty big. 676 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: I was like bigger than a person, and like three 677 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: people are like carrying in front of them, like going 678 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: to the police lane, presumably to use it as a 679 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: battering ram. But the troops run away so fast that 680 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: these guys couldn't get their gate up to the police 681 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: line fast enough to use it. 682 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: That's how you know it's going. 683 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: Well, it was staggering, it was amazing. So you know, 684 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: the entire coup calls apart. Zuniga gets arrested on Life TV. 685 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: It's like giving a press conference and they just like 686 00:34:59,080 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: arrest them. 687 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 3: Amazing. 688 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: But at the end of this, as it's falling apart, 689 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: the one genuinely masterful stroke that Zunjinga pulls in this 690 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: entire I mean it missed a just a cavalcade of failure. 691 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 1: The one actual genius line that he does is as 692 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: as he started being arrested, he says, it's in prison too. 693 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 3: Uh. 694 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: He claims that he's been ordered by Arsay to do 695 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: this in order to bolst Arsey's poll numbers, which are dogshit. 696 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 2: Fake yeah yeah, now okay. 697 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: This, this whole scheme begs the question, what was Arsay 698 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: supposed to get out of this? Sorry not again, why what? 699 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: What? What is? What does he get out of it? 700 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: Right? 701 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: Because she's just going to prison. 702 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: It's like, why would he do it if it was 703 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: just under orders from the president Because this is a 704 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: lose lose for him, so none of it makes any sense. 705 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 2: But coma. This is immediately picked up by morell I supporters. 706 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: You fucking hate her, say, and they all immediately begin 707 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: sort of peting is. And now this has become sort 708 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: of the official line. I mean, even Moreeles has been 709 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: on TV on social media is just saying, yeah, this 710 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 1: was this was a fake coup. This was a coup 711 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: that are say did against himself to help his poll numbers, 712 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: and this is you know, this is a This has 713 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: turned into a real thing, and there's a lot of 714 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: people who are sort of like, I don't know, the 715 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: whole coup was really weird, right, And there's a lot 716 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: of people who believe this because they're you know, I mean, 717 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: either because they want to believe it, or because you know, 718 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: I mean it does look weird, or because they fucking 719 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: just hate our say from the beginning, right, this is 720 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: all you know, as funny as it sort of is, 721 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: this has had a sort of catastrophic effect on sort 722 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: of just like regular oblivion people, because people are fucking terrified, 723 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: you know, they're terrified that this is the beginning of 724 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: the Army coming back into politics. They're terrified that someone 725 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: else is going to do a coup. I mean even 726 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: Morales has been saying for a very long time. Actually, 727 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: both of them have been trading accusations that the other 728 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: one is going to do a cue against them. 729 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been banging the coup drum for a little while. 730 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone, everyone has sort of been claiming that there's 731 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: going to be CU's happening. And all of this is 732 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: creating this sort of cauldron of things that are extremely 733 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: bad for the Bolivian left. The economic boom that wielded 734 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: their coalition together is over. It's not clear anyone can 735 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: bring it back, because again, this is a this is 736 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: a natural gas based thing, right. And the other problem 737 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: that they have is, you know, the problem that all 738 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: social democracies have, which is that they've created a middle 739 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: class base of small business owners and people with middle 740 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: class salaries and professional jobs. And we talked about this 741 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: in the Brazilian context, and this is something that Garcia 742 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,399 Speaker 1: la n Earra has talked about too, which is that, well, 743 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: he doesn't say it in these words because he's a 744 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: coward and a capitalist, but social democracy produces its own 745 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: grave diggers by creating a middle class that despises them 746 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: and then eventually destroys everything. The social democrats thought to create, 747 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: and that this is very possible that what we are 748 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: in right now is the opening stages of of this 749 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: entire political project coming apart. Yeah. 750 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 2: I fucking hope it doesn't. 751 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: And I hope that, you know, but again, like the 752 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: the only, the only actual way to resolve the inherent 753 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: sort of political and social contradictions of attempting to have 754 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: a sort of left wing socialist political base and a 755 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: capitalist government is to eliminate the capitalist state. Yeah, so 756 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: either either you do that or you get another one 757 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: of these shitty fucking cues. 758 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're just constantly vulnerable to this ship, right, like 759 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 3: at any point, Yeah, yeah, you're creating the condition switch a. 760 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: Wealthy and I mean, and we've we've we've already seen 761 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: the coup that's capable of knocking them out of power, right, 762 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: it's the cue that actually has sort of a mass, 763 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: like a mass backing from the right. 764 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 2: And this was not that cue. This was this was 765 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 2: this was. 766 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: The comedian's cup, This was the joker coup, This was the. 767 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 2: This is the worst coup. 768 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, the next one, the next one 769 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:00,879 Speaker 1: might not. 770 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,959 Speaker 2: Be yes, and that's quite serious. 771 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, So until then, hopefully hopefully we don't reach there. 772 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 1: But until this has been naked, happen here yet, you 773 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: too can overturn a coup by yelling, not even particularly 774 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: menacing at a muns your troops. 775 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, practice practice at home in case do you 776 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 3: have a need to do it. 777 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 4: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 778 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from. 779 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 4: Cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, 780 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 4: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 781 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 782 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 4: for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zonemedia 783 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 4: dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.