WEBVTT - Jaws of the Giant Clam

0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.

0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:16.079
<v Speaker 2>name is Robert Lamb.

0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:17.239
<v Speaker 3>And I'm Joe McCormick.

0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.479
<v Speaker 2>And in this episode, we're gonna be diving deeper on

0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.960
<v Speaker 2>a topic that we first explored just a little bit

0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.520
<v Speaker 2>on an episode of Automilia Stupendium, which of course is

0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.479
<v Speaker 2>one of our shorties that airs on Wednesdays, and that

0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.800
<v Speaker 2>is the subject of the Giant Clam. I found this

0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.960
<v Speaker 2>to be a fascinating topic to explore because, on one hand,

0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.320
<v Speaker 2>the giant clam is just an amazing organism, notable not

0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.360
<v Speaker 2>only for its size but also for its unique symbiosis.

0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.400
<v Speaker 2>But in addition to this, it's an organism that has

0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:50.919
<v Speaker 2>continually invited creative but highly inaccurate ideas about how they

0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:51.800
<v Speaker 2>actually behave.

0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.880
<v Speaker 3>It's not hard to see why people might look at

0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.680
<v Speaker 3>this thing and think that it will bite you, because

0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.520
<v Speaker 3>it just looks like the whole thing is just a

0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.000
<v Speaker 3>pair of jaws like cartoon teeth.

0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Yeah, And as we'll be exploring, I think the

0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.760
<v Speaker 2>really interesting thing here is that you see this, this idea,

0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.280
<v Speaker 2>this interpretation resonating not only with people who don't know

0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.840
<v Speaker 2>any better. Who are you know, one or multiple degrees

0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.720
<v Speaker 2>away from this organism and its natural habitat, but also

0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.959
<v Speaker 2>people in close proximity to it, or just can be

0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.880
<v Speaker 2>overwhelmed by the fact that it looks like a big mouth.

0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.360
<v Speaker 2>What if it was like a big mouth? And what

0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.840
<v Speaker 2>would the consequences of that be. The most pervasive idea,

0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.600
<v Speaker 2>of course, is we're talking about the idea that a

0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:40.040
<v Speaker 2>giant clam might latch onto your leg while you were

0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.000
<v Speaker 2>diving or snorkeling, or even in a very cartoon sense,

0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.920
<v Speaker 2>swallow you whole. And to be clear, just to go

0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.560
<v Speaker 2>ahead and get this out at the top, this has

0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.640
<v Speaker 2>never happened. There's no recorded evidence of it ever happening,

0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.840
<v Speaker 2>and for reasons we'll discuss, very good reasons. It pretty

0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.160
<v Speaker 2>much never could happen. That's right.

0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:03.559
<v Speaker 3>There's like one real famous anecdote of a guy claiming

0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.720
<v Speaker 3>that it happened, and he was there and I saw

0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:08.320
<v Speaker 3>one of the babies and the baby looked at me.

0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.160
<v Speaker 3>There are strong reasons for thinking that this story is

0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:17.239
<v Speaker 3>not true, and other than that, it's mostly just vague

0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:22.680
<v Speaker 3>generalizations from people not citing any evidence or fictional storytelling.

0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, right, Ben. You know that there are all sorts

0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:26.320
<v Speaker 2>of things that can go wrong in the water, and

0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.760
<v Speaker 2>there are lots of ways you can become injured and

0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.120
<v Speaker 2>so forth, but this is not really one of them.

0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:33.720
<v Speaker 2>And I think if you were gonna, if you were

0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.080
<v Speaker 2>going to pin your death on a giant clam, it

0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.280
<v Speaker 2>would be like you would have to essentially like strap

0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:43.760
<v Speaker 2>yourself to the giant clam and die drown underwater. You

0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.520
<v Speaker 2>would have to frame it in a major, insignificant way.

0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.200
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, in some ways, this I think is reminiscent

0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.160
<v Speaker 2>of our recent look at manta rays in the ways

0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.320
<v Speaker 2>that European sailors in particular misinterpreted the great fish as

0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.440
<v Speaker 2>a threat. But again, the curious thing about the myth

0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.280
<v Speaker 2>of the man eating clam is that while you only

0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.520
<v Speaker 2>find it circulating in the nineteenth and twentieth century among

0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Europeans and Americans, the idea also exists among native peoples,

0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.600
<v Speaker 2>who would have had more hands on understanding of what

0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.320
<v Speaker 2>these creatures were all about. But again, we're susceptible to

0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.920
<v Speaker 2>on one level, the kind of creative thinking, like you know,

0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.000
<v Speaker 2>this can occur separate from a logical interpretation. You know,

0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:23.920
<v Speaker 2>the idea that you know it's not a mouth, but

0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.239
<v Speaker 2>what if it is a mouth? And I think we'll

0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe get into a little bit about how maybe we're

0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.799
<v Speaker 2>just hardwired to see the jaws that could consume us,

0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.480
<v Speaker 2>even if we know those are not jaws. So yeah,

0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.480
<v Speaker 2>it just I think it might just boil down to

0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the fact that a giant clam, especially just looks too

0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:43.560
<v Speaker 2>much like a big old mouth for us to move

0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:44.040
<v Speaker 2>past it.

0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.839
<v Speaker 3>And if you've never seen one of these, by the way,

0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.240
<v Speaker 3>you can look up a giant clam or tridacna clam

0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:57.560
<v Speaker 3>tridac na. These things have a waviness to their shells,

0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.520
<v Speaker 3>you know, the way the shell closes it. It is

0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.680
<v Speaker 3>not just a straight curved line across. It waves up

0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.320
<v Speaker 3>and down like a you know, oscillation of a sound

0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.960
<v Speaker 3>wave or something, which sort of suggests teeth and further

0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.200
<v Speaker 3>lends itself into the mouth interpretation.

0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Now, speaking of mouths, it's interesting that tridacna apparently stems

0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.680
<v Speaker 2>from the Latin for three bites, and this goes back

0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.640
<v Speaker 2>to the writings of Like Plenty of the Elder and

0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.159
<v Speaker 2>even the Conquest of Alexander the Great, where it was

0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.560
<v Speaker 2>said that these could supply such meat as to require

0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.200
<v Speaker 2>not one, not two, but three bites for you to

0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.720
<v Speaker 2>consume it all. So the name actually originates in us

0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.680
<v Speaker 2>eating them, rather than any fabulous reversal on that.

0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.640
<v Speaker 3>And people do eat them. By the way, A lot

0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.480
<v Speaker 3>of people believe the meat of this clam is a

0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.120
<v Speaker 3>is a delicacy. A lot of people think it's really delicious.

0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.960
<v Speaker 3>This has greatly harmed the clams. They are now in

0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.240
<v Speaker 3>a I believe, listed by the IUCN as a critically

0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.200
<v Speaker 3>endangered species, and there were efforts at combating this by

0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.159
<v Speaker 3>changing over some of the trade in their meat to

0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:11.279
<v Speaker 3>like farmed populations instead of wild populations, receding wild populations

0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.599
<v Speaker 3>and things like that. But yeah, people are definitely getting

0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:15.520
<v Speaker 3>some three bites in.

0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because they're an important part of coral reef environments,

0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.640
<v Speaker 2>the coral reef environments that they call home. Now, I

0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.120
<v Speaker 2>was excited to look into giant clams. I hadn't really

0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:28.120
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really have giant clams on my mind at all, because,

0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.520
<v Speaker 2>aside from maybe in the background, I had kind of

0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.279
<v Speaker 2>like a Looney Tunes idea of them, you know, swallowing

0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.479
<v Speaker 2>a diving bugs bunny or something to that effect. But

0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.440
<v Speaker 2>as I've previously mentioned on the show. Over the summer,

0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I had the privilege of visiting the islands of raja

0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Ampat in Indonesia, where rich diversity of marine life, and

0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>this included the giant Tradacna clams, and of course the

0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:56.200
<v Speaker 2>biggest of all Tradacna geigis, and a particularly large one

0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.920
<v Speaker 2>in the area was known informally as Wu Tang clam.

0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.960
<v Speaker 2>And so I didn't get to dive right down to

0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Wu Tang clam because Wu Tang clam was like a

0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.560
<v Speaker 2>little deeper than some of the other than many of

0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.440
<v Speaker 2>the other giant clams I was seeing, but it was

0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:15.360
<v Speaker 2>still substantially large. And I included a photograph of Wu

0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Tang clam for you here, Joe. I'm I'm like ninety

0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:20.680
<v Speaker 2>nine percent sure this is Wu Tang clam. But this

0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.479
<v Speaker 2>is a shot from down there at its level with

0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:25.320
<v Speaker 2>proper lighting.

0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, yeah, just looking at this one image here,

0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:33.520
<v Speaker 3>it is so crusty with life all over it.

0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:34.160
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to.

0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.880
<v Speaker 3>See this as just one organism, as one clam with

0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:41.240
<v Speaker 3>its two valves, you know, slightly parted. It looks more

0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.760
<v Speaker 3>like a I don't know, a big piece of coral

0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:44.760
<v Speaker 3>reef for something.

0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, that that underscores the reality here that yeah, they

0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.720
<v Speaker 2>are reef builders in the long term, like you know,

0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.960
<v Speaker 2>they settle, they grow there in one spot, and when

0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.159
<v Speaker 2>they eventually pass on for one reason or another, you

0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.320
<v Speaker 2>know they will be the bone of future coral reefs.

0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.920
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that's one of the reasons they're so vitally

0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:06.240
<v Speaker 2>important to these environments.

0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.760
<v Speaker 3>Another reason, I think, Rob maybe you can confirm this

0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.080
<v Speaker 3>because I guess you have seen them up close. I

0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.120
<v Speaker 3>think sometimes people might not recognize they are looking at

0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:20.520
<v Speaker 3>a giant clam, especially if they're like looking down from above,

0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.800
<v Speaker 3>because it's not you don't obviously see the shell. You

0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.680
<v Speaker 3>might just see a kind of ripply looking sheet of

0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.760
<v Speaker 3>the inner flesh of the clam, like the mantle protruding

0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.640
<v Speaker 3>from out of the shell. Because in a lot of

0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.680
<v Speaker 3>cases they will be perched somewhere in a kind of

0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.800
<v Speaker 3>sunlit sea bottom and they're trying to spread out and

0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.960
<v Speaker 3>gather sunlight on the fleshy parts. And we can talk

0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.360
<v Speaker 3>about the reasons for that in just a minute here.

0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:46.800
<v Speaker 2>But you might not.

0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.960
<v Speaker 3>Actually see something that looks like a clam. You might say,

0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.080
<v Speaker 3>what is this a big kind of flat ripple a

0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.160
<v Speaker 3>sea cucumber or something. Because you're just seeing the mantle.

0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Right right, and the mantle tissue, it can be really

0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.240
<v Speaker 2>eye catching. Certainly saw this a lot with the various

0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.320
<v Speaker 2>giant clams that I was snorkling over. They almost feel

0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:09.120
<v Speaker 2>magical at times, seeming to pulsate with a strange energy,

0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:11.840
<v Speaker 2>and then they would as you would get near them,

0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.440
<v Speaker 2>they would sense you for reasons that I'll get into,

0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.920
<v Speaker 2>and the smaller varieties in particular would often kind of

0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.240
<v Speaker 2>like maybe not close all the way, but kind of tense. Yeah.

0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.720
<v Speaker 2>They were very vibrant to look at, and to your point, yeah,

0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:28.200
<v Speaker 2>they are. They are facing mouth up if you will,

0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.240
<v Speaker 2>because the mansle tissue needs to be, you know, have

0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.760
<v Speaker 2>maximum exposure to sunlight. Whereas the Looney Tunes version of

0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.400
<v Speaker 2>the giant clam that might eat bugs, bunny that you

0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:43.199
<v Speaker 2>tend to imagine it positioned less vertically and more horizontally.

0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.360
<v Speaker 3>You're right, because it's like a crocodile's mouth.

0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Yeah, So, as I was passing over these these clans,

0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the interesting thing is I still knew enough about clams

0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.040
<v Speaker 2>and giant clams to know that these things were not

0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.120
<v Speaker 2>a danger to me. They were not actually going to

0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.720
<v Speaker 2>try and bite me or anything to that effect. And

0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.000
<v Speaker 2>yet there is this undeniable resemblance to some sort of

0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:11.840
<v Speaker 2>a big fleshy mouth or secondary secondarily perhaps some sort

0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:16.560
<v Speaker 2>of yonic imagery. And so these associations I thought about

0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.880
<v Speaker 2>this fair amount as I was passing over them snorkeling, Like,

0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.520
<v Speaker 2>these associations connect with us, I think on a primal level,

0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.640
<v Speaker 2>and it's hard not to at least casually think of

0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:32.320
<v Speaker 2>what you're seeing in anthropomorphic terms, comparing them to basic

0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:36.480
<v Speaker 2>human physiological analogues and analogs that are like very closely

0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.120
<v Speaker 2>tied in to our survival and reproduction and so forth. Yeah,

0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.560
<v Speaker 2>mostly we're going to talk about giant clams as mouths.

0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.520
<v Speaker 2>But on the subject of yonic imagery, we do certainly

0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.400
<v Speaker 2>see interpretations of clamshells in general in the giant clamshell,

0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:57.080
<v Speaker 2>as well as vulva in its use as fertility emblems

0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.360
<v Speaker 2>as well as currency in some cultures in the past.

0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.120
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes you'll even see like Bodicelli's rendition of the Birth

0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.520
<v Speaker 2>of Venus sided in there as well, though the shell

0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.640
<v Speaker 2>that he depicts in that painting is a scallop shell,

0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I believe, and not actually a clamshell, but it is

0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.720
<v Speaker 2>presented on a scale that is more in keeping with

0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:18.719
<v Speaker 2>a giant clamshell.

0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.800
<v Speaker 3>Though I think actually in that that's also bigger than

0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.439
<v Speaker 3>any known giant clam.

0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as we'll discuss giant clamshells, I think about the

0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.280
<v Speaker 2>maximum you're going to get is like four feet.

0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.040
<v Speaker 3>Across, Yeah, which is very big, still very big.

0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:37.000
<v Speaker 2>It's still enormous. But you know, they can't fit a venus. Yeah,

0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:38.520
<v Speaker 2>you couldn't fit a whole venus in there. You'd have

0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.600
<v Speaker 2>to really scrunch your up. Still seashells in general, you know,

0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.280
<v Speaker 2>pop up and Renaissance paintings, paintings sometimes with erotic suggestions

0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.160
<v Speaker 2>and their usage. Though quite incidentally, there is a venus

0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.439
<v Speaker 2>genus of clam. I was reading about this recently. Eighteenth

0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:58.040
<v Speaker 2>century Swedish naturalist and father of modern taxonomy, Carl Linaeus

0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.640
<v Speaker 2>famously described the venus claim in quite sexual terms, which

0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.000
<v Speaker 2>was pretty controversial at the time. Critics charged that he

0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:10.440
<v Speaker 2>quote indulged in obscene illusions. Suffice to say, it seems

0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.160
<v Speaker 2>quite a common interpretation, second only to the view of

0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:15.400
<v Speaker 2>the clam as a mouth.

0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:19.600
<v Speaker 3>Was Linnaeus not otherwise really known for very expressive or

0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:21.080
<v Speaker 3>controversial descriptions.

0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Correct. That's my understanding is that this was kind of

0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.480
<v Speaker 2>an outlier where suddenly everyone was like, whoa, whoa, what

0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:31.599
<v Speaker 2>are you doing? But you know, I guess the controversy

0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:32.920
<v Speaker 2>died down after a while.

0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it does seem like a biology is a funny

0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:38.719
<v Speaker 3>domain to get upset about that in.

0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, all right, Well, speaking of biology, let's let's

0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.079
<v Speaker 2>let's go through some of the basics of the giant

0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 2>clam here, particularly so again we're talking about for the

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 2>most part, we're talking about Tridacna gaigis, and it can

0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.600
<v Speaker 2>be found in coral reefs of the South Pacific and

0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Indian Oceans. They can reach sizes of up to two

0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty kerls are five hundred and fifty pounds,

0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.679
<v Speaker 2>and they can grow to somewhere over four feet or

0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:09.480
<v Speaker 2>one point two meters long or across. So again, maybe

0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 2>not quite man swallowing size like we would see in

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.080
<v Speaker 2>our fiction, but still incredibly big. Like they still look

0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.840
<v Speaker 2>like a they can still look like a massive like

0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:24.480
<v Speaker 2>bio chest there on the seafloor. Yeah. Now, the giant clam,

0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.360
<v Speaker 2>to be sure here, doesn't really have a mouth, especially

0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.480
<v Speaker 2>in the way, you might read it as again the

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>bugs bunny swallowing mouth. Instead, we have the valves, and

0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.760
<v Speaker 2>they are bivalves. Remember, so we have the like the

0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:45.120
<v Speaker 2>two shells that essentially howls the organism, and inside they

0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 2>have a pair of siphons, one for drawing in food

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 2>and water and another for expelling waste. Furthermore, they are

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.280
<v Speaker 2>filter feeders and they have no need for any jaw

0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.040
<v Speaker 2>like mechanics. There's no chewing that takes place with the

0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.640
<v Speaker 2>two valve. They simply close, or in the case of

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 2>the giant clams, nearly close their shells for protection. The

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.760
<v Speaker 2>giant clams can't actually close them all the way for

0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.480
<v Speaker 2>a couple of reasons. And here's another big kicker. They

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:17.600
<v Speaker 2>close their shells exceedingly slowly. One of the main predators

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.960
<v Speaker 2>that they're closing their shells for protection against are sea stars,

0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 2>which you are quite a threat to a number of

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.079
<v Speaker 2>coral reef dwelling organisms. But they themselves are also slow

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:34.280
<v Speaker 2>moving creatures. So for this very specific encounter, the closing

0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 2>of the shell is actually pretty fast, but it's as

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.360
<v Speaker 2>fast as it needs to be, and it's not man

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:41.320
<v Speaker 2>catching fast.

0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.679
<v Speaker 3>Yes, And the other thing you mentioned is they often

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.480
<v Speaker 3>don't close their shells completely because you will still see

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.280
<v Speaker 3>some of the flesh of the clam kind of protruding,

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.560
<v Speaker 3>like they've got to both expel water and retract their

0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 3>tissues inside in order.

0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 2>To close exactly. Now, the varied colorization of the mantle

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:07.199
<v Speaker 2>tissues on the giant clam is due to ariticide cells

0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:14.240
<v Speaker 2>that feed light to symbiotic single celled dinoflagelet algae or zooxanthellae.

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.520
<v Speaker 2>And this is where we get into the really cool

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:21.280
<v Speaker 2>example of symbiosis going on here. The clam acquires these

0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 2>zooxanthellae via constant filter feeding in the water, it also

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 2>acquires basic basic plectonic organisms that it actually eats, and thus,

0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 2>during the day the clam is going to open wide

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 2>and extend its mantle tissue to absorb the sunlight necessary

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.400
<v Speaker 2>for the algae to conduct photosynthesis, and in return, the

0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.880
<v Speaker 2>algae produced sugars and proteins that the clam needs to

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 2>survive along with its more traditional filter diet, which it

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 2>requires less off. So the giant clam has a dual

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 2>feeding strategy and this is thought to have evolved some

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 2>sixty four million years ago.

0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, two different ways of eating. It is photosynthesizing with

0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.680
<v Speaker 3>the help of these organized that it has absorbed and

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 3>taken into itself. And then it's also filter feeding. It's

0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 3>sucking through water and filtering out little bits that it

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:07.840
<v Speaker 3>can eat.

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so that's that's one of the interesting like

0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>observations you can make as you like snorkel over them.

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Is like that mantle tissue is like it really seems engorged,

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.440
<v Speaker 2>uh and and very out there because because it is,

0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:26.680
<v Speaker 2>it is, you know, collecting sunlight, and yeah, so fascinating

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.840
<v Speaker 2>that it has this dual feeding strategy. The giant clam

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.520
<v Speaker 2>also boasts thousands of pinhole eye spots along the mantle's

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.960
<v Speaker 2>edge that allowed to detect changes in light, not only

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 2>the cycles of night and day, but also tailtale shadows

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.600
<v Speaker 2>of approaching predators. And so this gets into you know,

0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 2>the observation that I had as I was snorkeling over again,

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:52.360
<v Speaker 2>the smaller of the giants, they would sometimes like tense

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 2>up a little bit. They wouldn't close all the way,

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.280
<v Speaker 2>but there would be like a visual like rippling or

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>movement of the mantle tissue and even the valves. Yeah.

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I've seen video of the same thing happening.

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 3>If you say, you move your hand over the top

0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 3>of one and cast a shadow over it, sometimes it

0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 3>will kind of tense and partially close.

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.360
<v Speaker 2>Which, again the logical mind knows that, you know, it

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.880
<v Speaker 2>is just responding to the presence of another organism, which

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 2>may or may not be something that is a threat

0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 2>to it. But you also can't help but illogically read

0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.440
<v Speaker 2>it as like little mouths that are kind of going

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:30.640
<v Speaker 2>at you, you know. So again, I think it's almost

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.960
<v Speaker 2>impossible not to read them on additional levels as well.

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, I mean I think the way to think

0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.560
<v Speaker 3>of it is that what you're seeing there is a

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 3>retracting impulse, not a biting.

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Impulse, exactly. Yeah, it is a retracting not a biting

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Because yeah, I think the other way we tend to,

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, artificially think about them, and certainly in like

0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 2>modern looney tune sense, is to think of them as

0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.160
<v Speaker 2>a bear trap. Yes, and we'll turn to some actual

0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 2>examples from twentieth century cinema that depicts them essentially as

0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.160
<v Speaker 2>a bear trap just waiting down there for divers to

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 2>pass through it.

0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, before we get to twentieth century cinema, there are

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:22.400
<v Speaker 3>older stories of giant clams. As you know various forms

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 3>of monsters or man killers. The giant clam has appeared

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 3>in some myths and legends of various people's of the

0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.000
<v Speaker 3>Pacific Islands, sometimes as a benign creature, but sometimes as

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.840
<v Speaker 3>a dangerous or monstrous creature. One interesting example I found

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:45.000
<v Speaker 3>is in a to Amotuan version of the story of

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.399
<v Speaker 3>the Polynesian hero Rata. I can't remember if Rata's come

0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.280
<v Speaker 3>up on the show before, but Rata is basically a

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:57.119
<v Speaker 3>culture hero that you will find throughout Polynesian storytelling and

0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.280
<v Speaker 3>lots of different Pacific Island cultures. There are Rata stories

0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 3>among the Maori, among Tahitians, to Emotuans, and others, sometimes

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.320
<v Speaker 3>with a different name a slightly different name in different regions.

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.800
<v Speaker 3>The Rata stories differ in many details, but the most

0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:20.240
<v Speaker 3>common elements are that he is a young, brave, resourceful

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.320
<v Speaker 3>hero who has to go on a dangerous quest to

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 3>avenge the death of his father or to avenge some

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:32.760
<v Speaker 3>other kind of crime against his family, and in doing

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 3>so he has to build a mighty canoe, which involves

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.520
<v Speaker 3>felling a tree protected by spirits or magical beings of

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.640
<v Speaker 3>the forest. Sometimes in older English sources these beings are

0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:48.280
<v Speaker 3>translated as elves or goblins. More recent sources, I think,

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.359
<v Speaker 3>will call them things like forest spirits or something. But

0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.280
<v Speaker 3>once in this great canoe that he has made, Rada

0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 3>has to go on a journey, sometimes with companions, to

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.760
<v Speaker 3>avenge his family or avenge his father, and battle terrifying

0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.720
<v Speaker 3>monsters along the way. And so in one version of

0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.919
<v Speaker 3>the Rada journey, I found one of those monsters he

0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 3>fights is a giant clam.

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 2>So this is a.

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.359
<v Speaker 3>Telling of a version found among the Tuamotuan people of

0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.679
<v Speaker 3>the Tuamotu Islands and of Tahiti, told by a local

0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 3>scholar named Taroi to a Missus Walker, and compiled into

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 3>a book called Ancient Tahiti by the British Tahitian folkloristan

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 3>scholar Tearia Henry, who lived eighteen forty seven to nineteen fifteen.

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.520
<v Speaker 3>So I'm going to read the excerpt of the text,

0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.199
<v Speaker 3>and of course I have to apologize in advance for

0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:43.520
<v Speaker 3>any mispronunciations.

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I'll do my best.

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 3>Here they were sailing on their course when the great

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 3>au or swordfish came into sight, and Rata mistook it

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.359
<v Speaker 3>for land. But Tava said it was not land, but

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.480
<v Speaker 3>another foe. So Rada stood prepared again for battle, and

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.399
<v Speaker 3>when the monster approached the the canoe, intending to pierce it,

0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.439
<v Speaker 3>he killed it with his spear and presented the body

0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.520
<v Speaker 3>to the elves as before. Thus that demon was exterminated

0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.439
<v Speaker 3>and his flesh eaten by all. They sailed on, and

0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 3>they met the great Urua, the Kavala fish, which looked

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.879
<v Speaker 3>like land, but Tava told Rada it was the Kavala fish,

0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.120
<v Speaker 3>sent by King Puna to kill him. The fish darted

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.359
<v Speaker 3>forward to carry away Rada, but he stood ready, and

0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.840
<v Speaker 3>as soon as it approached him, he thrust his spear

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:32.479
<v Speaker 3>into its throat and killed it, and it was also

0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.840
<v Speaker 3>eaten by all. Next they met the great Pahua Tutahi,

0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.760
<v Speaker 3>a giant clam which appeared like a mountain looming up

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.000
<v Speaker 3>from the sea. But Tava said, it is not land.

0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.639
<v Speaker 3>It is the giant clam, and Rada prepared for the

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.880
<v Speaker 3>inevitable encounter. As his vessel was being drawn up into it.

0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.200
<v Speaker 3>The clam had opened its great valves and was sucking

0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 3>in the waves upon which the canoe. Tua Rata was sailing.

0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.480
<v Speaker 3>Stood at the bow with his spear, and as soon

0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:04.920
<v Speaker 3>as they reached the center of the clam, he pierced

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.199
<v Speaker 3>it through its vital part, severing its flesh from the

0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 3>shell so that it could not close upon him. He

0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 3>presented the clam to his spirit company to annihilate, and

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.680
<v Speaker 3>as soon as the canoe was safely away, the dead

0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:23.160
<v Speaker 3>clam sank into the deep sea. So several interesting things

0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.760
<v Speaker 3>here in the story. It sounds like he's talking about

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.119
<v Speaker 3>cutting the adductor muscle, which is something we see later

0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.480
<v Speaker 3>when people are talking about how to fight this clam.

0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.679
<v Speaker 3>In this case, it says that Rada, you know, he

0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.280
<v Speaker 3>stabbed it at its vital part with the spear. Severing

0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.879
<v Speaker 3>its flesh from the shell makes it sound, and that

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.119
<v Speaker 3>prevented the shell from closing. Right, So it sounds like

0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.440
<v Speaker 3>he is saying he attacked. He attacked the adductor muscle,

0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.239
<v Speaker 3>which the clam uses to close the shell. Another thing

0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.240
<v Speaker 3>I want to note here is that I think there

0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.359
<v Speaker 3>could be a temptation to take a story like this

0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 3>as evidence that the storyteller or the storyteller's audience would

0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 3>be expected to believe that giant clams are actually dangerous,

0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:10.040
<v Speaker 3>that you know, they will come in eat your boat

0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 3>or something. But I'm not sure that's actually right. In

0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.719
<v Speaker 3>this telling, the giant clam is not only a giant clam,

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:22.160
<v Speaker 3>as in a tridacta geigis. It is a giant giant

0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.560
<v Speaker 3>clam described as looming over the sea like a mountain

0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:30.000
<v Speaker 3>and capable of swallowing an entire canoe. So to me,

0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 3>that doesn't necessarily mean that the teller of the story

0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.639
<v Speaker 3>wanted to you to get the idea that a regular

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:41.640
<v Speaker 3>sized giant clam poses a threat to human beings, though

0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.840
<v Speaker 3>that belief does appear to be common enough around the

0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.120
<v Speaker 3>world at different times. Maybe you can't rule it out either.

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.119
<v Speaker 3>But it might well be that the clam in this

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.800
<v Speaker 3>story is only understood as threatening because it is supernatural

0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:59.800
<v Speaker 3>and monstrous and leviathan sized, not because regular giant clams

0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 3>are a threat. After all, the very next monster that

0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 3>ratafights in the story is a terrible demon bird that

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.239
<v Speaker 3>carried away Rada's parents and swallowed his father's head, and

0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.480
<v Speaker 3>this is presumably not an indication of what the storyteller

0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.879
<v Speaker 3>thought about the offensive capabilities of regular sea birds. So

0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't know that we can actually draw from this

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:24.359
<v Speaker 3>story a belief that giant clams would hurt you. It's

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 3>just like, this is a monster giant clam. It might

0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 3>be no different than when we have Knight of aleipis

0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.160
<v Speaker 3>a movie about monster bunnies.

0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, if if a bunny was that big, it would

0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:36.919
<v Speaker 2>it would be a threat to us just based on

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 2>its mass, similar to you know, we know that our

0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.879
<v Speaker 2>housecat is not actually a threat to our life in

0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:49.480
<v Speaker 2>a direct sense, but we can certainly engage in fantasies

0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:52.760
<v Speaker 2>where it is enlarged or we are shrunken, and then

0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:57.280
<v Speaker 2>that changes everything. Right, if a giant clam were supernaturally

0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.600
<v Speaker 2>giant enough, it could it could filter feed us exactly.

0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:04.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't want to be filter fed or filter eaten.

0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Now, why was this monster's flesh not eaten by all? Though?

0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 2>That seems like a missed opportunity.

0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:11.240
<v Speaker 3>That's a really good question. I don't know the answer.

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.919
<v Speaker 3>And anybody out there listening who's a scholar of toomotu

0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:18.240
<v Speaker 3>and folklore who knows more about the Rata hero cycle, Like,

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:20.359
<v Speaker 3>what do you have an idea? Why was the clam

0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:22.000
<v Speaker 3>not eaten like the other fish were?

0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I like a story where the people eat the monster

0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.680
<v Speaker 2>we've encountered these sorts of stories before, and they seem

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:31.200
<v Speaker 2>very practical. I mean, sometimes the monster's body is poisonous

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:34.320
<v Speaker 2>by nature, and therefore, you know, it is left alone.

0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.200
<v Speaker 2>But I like a story where they're like, okay, let's

0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:38.480
<v Speaker 2>make use of this flesh.

0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 3>And it's not just the hero. It's actually kind of heartwarming.

0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:43.320
<v Speaker 3>The hero kills the monster and then takes it back

0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:44.480
<v Speaker 3>and it's eaten by all.

0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know. And speaking of giant clams, I'll also

0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 2>refer listeners back to our episodes on the Fata Morgana,

0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:58.640
<v Speaker 2>this being a mirage, an optical illusion that is seen

0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.840
<v Speaker 2>at sea, which I did get to see an example

0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:06.280
<v Speaker 2>of when I was in Indonesia. In Indonesia, but we

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:11.240
<v Speaker 2>discussed the Chinese myths concerning the shin or chin, which

0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.040
<v Speaker 2>is a kind of giant clam, a giant giant clam,

0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:17.160
<v Speaker 2>to be sure, a supernaturally giant clam. And this one too,

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of emerges from the water like a mountain, but

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:25.879
<v Speaker 2>it also expels a fantastic phantasmagorical island, you know, that

0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:28.719
<v Speaker 2>throws sailors off and people sail towards it and then

0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:31.200
<v Speaker 2>they realize too late that this was not a real place.

0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:35.200
<v Speaker 2>At all, but just an illusion cast up by this giant,

0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:39.560
<v Speaker 2>this giant bivalve in the water. Yeah, but I don't

0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:43.200
<v Speaker 2>believe it ever, you know, latched on or ate anybody.

0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 2>So I kind of skipped over it otherwise for this episode. Yeah. Now,

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.439
<v Speaker 2>coming back to modern myths of giant clams eating people,

0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 2>I want to read an excerpt from Charles Frederick Holder.

0:25:57.240 --> 0:26:02.080
<v Speaker 2>He was an American naturalist and conservations and he had

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.719
<v Speaker 2>a book in eighteen eighty five title Elements of Zoology,

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and this is time to understand otherwise for the time period,

0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:11.199
<v Speaker 2>a very well regarded work. So this is again not

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:14.720
<v Speaker 2>an example of like outrageous fiction. It is not an

0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 2>example of mythology or folklore, just you know, an attempt

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:23.639
<v Speaker 2>to present biological facts about the natural world. And in

0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:27.240
<v Speaker 2>it he writes, quote, so powerful are they that large

0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 2>sharks and rays that have accidentally crossed them have been

0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:34.680
<v Speaker 2>seized and held. That already gives us a lot to play.

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.720
<v Speaker 2>First of all, I've crossed them, I think just means

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:39.639
<v Speaker 2>has come close to them. I don't think this is

0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:43.560
<v Speaker 2>like a Vendetta situation he's describing here, right. He goes

0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>on to state that the tradacna always harbors within its

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 2>shell several crabs. I actually couldn't find out out much

0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:53.720
<v Speaker 2>about this other than to say that, yeah, you will

0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:58.240
<v Speaker 2>find lots of animals living around and even among the

0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:01.280
<v Speaker 2>valves of a clam like this. And then he also

0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:05.280
<v Speaker 2>points out that the bisis this is the substance that

0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:10.520
<v Speaker 2>like sticks. The clam to the rock is quote so

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:12.920
<v Speaker 2>large that it can only be cut with a hatchet.

0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:14.640
<v Speaker 2>And then he goes on to point out that eight

0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:17.879
<v Speaker 2>species are known. So still the idea that the clam

0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:22.760
<v Speaker 2>will latch on to creatures in its vicinity, including sharks

0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:26.880
<v Speaker 2>and rays, which, as we've discussed, are very agile creatures

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:30.119
<v Speaker 2>that are not certain. I mean, it's one thing to

0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:33.880
<v Speaker 2>even make the claim, well that a flimsy human snorkeler

0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:36.120
<v Speaker 2>or diver might get trapped by one of these things,

0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:38.159
<v Speaker 2>but it's quite another to imagine a shark or a

0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:40.640
<v Speaker 2>ray being grabbed by something like this.

0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:43.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but that's not going to stop you from telling

0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:46.639
<v Speaker 3>a good story. I mean, so, there are lots of

0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:50.560
<v Speaker 3>perpetuators of the myth of the killer clam. In the

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:54.959
<v Speaker 3>twentieth century, it came across many many things here that

0:27:55.000 --> 0:27:58.720
<v Speaker 3>we can discuss. One great example of the idea that

0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 3>giant clams weregerous appears in a very short article that

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:07.760
<v Speaker 3>was reprinted throughout, you know, the publishing world, originally in

0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 3>the magazine Popular Mechanics in May nineteen twenty four. This

0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:15.719
<v Speaker 3>was volume forty one, number five. I saw a vague

0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:18.399
<v Speaker 3>reference to this in another article and I had to

0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:21.200
<v Speaker 3>go dig up the original text, and I'm glad I did,

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:24.720
<v Speaker 3>by the way, because this entire issue of Popular Mechanics

0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:29.240
<v Speaker 3>is hilarious. This is sort of a digression from the clams.

0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:32.240
<v Speaker 3>But I have to discuss a few highlights from this

0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:36.760
<v Speaker 3>nineteen twenty four pop mac one headline tear gas in

0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:43.760
<v Speaker 3>police clubs to foil bandits. What The article claims that

0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:46.920
<v Speaker 3>it is impossible to remain within ten feet after the

0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:49.800
<v Speaker 3>gas is released. So it says, you know, you hit

0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:53.160
<v Speaker 3>the bandit with your mace or billy and it releases

0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:56.000
<v Speaker 3>the tear gas. And I was like, what about the

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 3>person hitting with it? I guess they have to be

0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 3>wearing a gas.

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:01.880
<v Speaker 2>They just have to be gas masked up from the

0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:02.280
<v Speaker 2>get going.

0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:06.160
<v Speaker 3>What it's in the club? That was inside the club?

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:12.120
<v Speaker 3>The other thing is the headline baking as cure for

0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:16.240
<v Speaker 3>dog ills is tried in Germany and Rob here's an

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:18.520
<v Speaker 3>illustration for you to look at. Well, not a photo

0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 3>of a guy who's got a dog, and it's just

0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 3>labeled dog being baked in gas. Of Now, I have

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.200
<v Speaker 3>to c it's not saying that you bake it at

0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:31.040
<v Speaker 3>like cooking temperatures. I think it's just like kind of

0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:33.600
<v Speaker 3>like a steam bath. It's like very warm in there.

0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Like a cartoon steam bath where you would have a

0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 2>cartoon character get in and only their head sticking out.

0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:41.360
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what they're doing to this dog. That headline

0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:44.520
<v Speaker 2>really is a roller coaster because when I first read it,

0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:46.240
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, well, that's kind of nice. You're

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:49.240
<v Speaker 2>baking for the dog, you're making little cookies or you know,

0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:52.680
<v Speaker 2>little treats. But no, this dude has a metal contraption

0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:55.280
<v Speaker 2>that this dog's body is stuck in.

0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.800
<v Speaker 3>So this poor dog's just looking like I'm very hot.

0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:05.720
<v Speaker 3>Another one. Here's the headline. Forty pound cigar is valued

0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:09.520
<v Speaker 3>at seventy five dollars what is said to be one

0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:13.400
<v Speaker 3>of the largest cigars ever made. One of the largest

0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:17.920
<v Speaker 3>was shown at an Eastern Tobacco exposition and it goes

0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:20.800
<v Speaker 3>on to, yeah, not really say anything else except that

0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:23.240
<v Speaker 3>it's valued at seventy five dollars. It does not answer

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:28.280
<v Speaker 3>the question did anybody smoke it?

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:30.840
<v Speaker 2>And it's so weird looking at these because my grandfather

0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 2>in the I guess this is in the eighties and nineties,

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:36.160
<v Speaker 2>he always had he had always had copies of Popular

0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Mechanics and Popular Science sitting around and I would look

0:30:39.640 --> 0:30:42.680
<v Speaker 2>through them as a kid, and you know, these felt

0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:45.720
<v Speaker 2>like they were accurately depicting the future. There are always

0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:51.400
<v Speaker 2>articles about, you know, new gadgets, new upcoming technologies. So

0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:54.880
<v Speaker 2>it's quite a trip to explore these these previous stories

0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:56.080
<v Speaker 2>in Popular Mechanics.

0:30:56.360 --> 0:31:00.840
<v Speaker 3>Skeptical editorial standards might have been improving as the decades

0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:05.920
<v Speaker 3>went on. Maybe anyway, onto clams. So in this wacky

0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:11.000
<v Speaker 3>Popular Mechanics, there's one article titled Giant clams trap sea

0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 3>divers in Grip of Shells. It's a very short article,

0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 3>so I can read it in full. It says shells

0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:21.880
<v Speaker 3>of huge clams found off the coast of Papua often

0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:25.880
<v Speaker 3>weigh more than four hundred pounds. Divers who accidentally step

0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:29.600
<v Speaker 3>into the open lips of the monsters are not infrequently

0:31:29.640 --> 0:31:32.800
<v Speaker 3>held with such force that they cannot release themselves and

0:31:32.880 --> 0:31:36.720
<v Speaker 3>are drowned. The shells closed with such force that they

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:41.000
<v Speaker 3>serve as gigantic traps. That's the whole article, except for

0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:44.040
<v Speaker 3>there's a photo of a giant clam, and we see

0:31:44.040 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 3>the characteristic shell with the with the wavy line of

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:51.760
<v Speaker 3>the mouth, and the caption is giant clam and coral

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 3>reef off New Guinea, powerful crushing lips, partly open.

0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 2>The interesting thing here is, though it's described as partly open,

0:32:00.440 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 2>this is actually probably a situation where they're as closed

0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 2>as they are going to get. Yes, And they're describing

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 2>giant clams, by the way, in exactly the area that

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:11.040
<v Speaker 2>I was snorkling in.

0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:12.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's funny.

0:32:12.880 --> 0:32:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.479
<v Speaker 3>The text of this popular mechanics article seems to have

0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:21.120
<v Speaker 3>been reproduced in newspapers and other publications in the nineteen twenties,

0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:23.080
<v Speaker 3>so it seems kind of like this story really got

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:26.800
<v Speaker 3>around in the following decades, including in various bits of

0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 3>pop culture. This exact clam trap scenario is depicted in

0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:35.920
<v Speaker 3>a scene from a nineteen forty eight adventure film called

0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:39.640
<v Speaker 3>Wake of the Red Witch starring John Wayne himself and

0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:43.320
<v Speaker 3>Gail Russell rob I put in a link for you

0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:45.200
<v Speaker 3>to look at the scene if you want. It's actually,

0:32:45.240 --> 0:32:47.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it's not that remarkable as a scene,

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:48.920
<v Speaker 3>and it's really hard to see what's going on in

0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:52.960
<v Speaker 3>the underwater photography. It's very murky. Basically, the movie is

0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:56.280
<v Speaker 3>a revenge story about this deadly feud over a woman

0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.840
<v Speaker 3>between a bitter ship captain played by John Wayne and

0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:03.920
<v Speaker 3>a wealthy shipping company owner played by Luther Adler. I

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 3>haven't seen the movie in full, but yeah, I found

0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:09.760
<v Speaker 3>a clip of this clam scene. Basically, a kid goes diving.

0:33:09.920 --> 0:33:14.240
<v Speaker 3>He accidentally sticks his leg into a tritachna clamshell. The

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 3>shell slams shut and traps him by the ankle, and

0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:20.120
<v Speaker 3>then John Wayne has to dive down and do battle

0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:22.080
<v Speaker 3>with the clam to get it to release the kid.

0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:26.240
<v Speaker 3>He succeeds by with the kid's foot still inside the shell.

0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:29.160
<v Speaker 3>By the way, by John Wayne, he stabs into the

0:33:29.200 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 3>gap in the clam's shell with some kind of spear

0:33:32.080 --> 0:33:35.680
<v Speaker 3>almost looks like a glave, and I was like, he's

0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 3>gonna stab the foot, but the kid's okay.

0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 2>This shell in this movie, by the way, just it

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:43.080
<v Speaker 2>looks like a giant quarium clam. You know the kind

0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:46.920
<v Speaker 2>of little clamshell that opens and closes in your standard

0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:49.760
<v Speaker 2>a quar Yeah, it's like bubbles. Yeah, it looks like

0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:52.400
<v Speaker 2>it's made out of plastic or something like plastic. And

0:33:52.520 --> 0:33:54.840
<v Speaker 2>also like no visible or at least I didn't see

0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:57.320
<v Speaker 2>any visible mantle tissue either.

0:33:57.840 --> 0:34:00.920
<v Speaker 3>Another great example I found from popular our culture is

0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:06.400
<v Speaker 3>Superman versus giant clam. There are actually several instances of this.

0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:10.480
<v Speaker 3>The theme that is usually emphasized is like, wow, Superman

0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:13.520
<v Speaker 3>is so strong he can even pry apart the jaws

0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:17.520
<v Speaker 3>of the killer clam. That would take a mightiness born

0:34:17.680 --> 0:34:21.239
<v Speaker 3>only of his Kryptonian blood interacting with our yellow sun.

0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:25.200
<v Speaker 3>So the main example I came across is that Superman

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.800
<v Speaker 3>fights giant clams in one arc of the Adventures of

0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:32.560
<v Speaker 3>Superman radio serial. This was a I think it was

0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:35.600
<v Speaker 3>a six episode series called The Curse of dead Man's

0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:39.600
<v Speaker 3>Island which ran from September to October nineteen forty and

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:43.880
<v Speaker 3>in this encounter, they're on a mysterious island and Jimmy

0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:47.160
<v Speaker 3>Olsen and another character are swimming to shore after their

0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:50.560
<v Speaker 3>motor boat has been wrecked, and they get attacked by

0:34:50.640 --> 0:34:55.440
<v Speaker 3>a swarm of fast moving giant clams. Yeah, these clams

0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:58.239
<v Speaker 3>they not only clamp down and trap you, they actively

0:34:58.360 --> 0:35:00.560
<v Speaker 3>chase you, is what it sounds like. Don't remember the

0:35:00.560 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 3>exact wording, but it's like they're coming right for us.

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:04.200
<v Speaker 2>They're like wind up chattery teeth.

0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:06.719
<v Speaker 3>Can we get a can we get a sample of

0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:15.000
<v Speaker 3>this jjuting.

0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:11.680
<v Speaker 1>The waters clear?

0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:14.160
<v Speaker 3>I've got to work fast before I would drown.

0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Wally shells apart and fleet these things are powerful.

0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:24.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, only the Man of Steel has hands strong

0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 3>enough to wrench apart the deadly molluscian grip. And I

0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:30.120
<v Speaker 3>love how you can hear Superman like grunting and groaning

0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:30.799
<v Speaker 3>and saying.

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Great Scott.

0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:36.080
<v Speaker 3>These things are powerful. And then there are also some

0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:39.239
<v Speaker 3>some visual like Superman comics where he has to fight

0:35:39.280 --> 0:35:42.040
<v Speaker 3>a giant clam. There's one. I actually was not able

0:35:42.080 --> 0:35:44.840
<v Speaker 3>to figure out what issue this is from, so I

0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:47.000
<v Speaker 3>can't say, but I found it just like a clip

0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:49.239
<v Speaker 3>on Google image searches, where it looks like it's a

0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:52.520
<v Speaker 3>silver age Superman who's having to he gets his own

0:35:52.600 --> 0:35:54.839
<v Speaker 3>foot stuck in a giant clam's mouth and he has

0:35:54.960 --> 0:35:57.040
<v Speaker 3>to like shoot it with his eye lasers.

0:35:57.680 --> 0:36:00.440
<v Speaker 2>And this is another example of the comic book giant

0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:05.400
<v Speaker 2>clam is more horizontal, yeah, positioning as opposed to vertical. Yeah,

0:36:05.440 --> 0:36:09.319
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned that film from nineteen forty eight. I ran

0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:12.600
<v Speaker 2>across another film from nineteen forty eight that also features

0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:16.200
<v Speaker 2>pretty much the same giant clam gag, and that's the

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:21.080
<v Speaker 2>film sixteen Fathoms Deep. This one starred Lloyd Bridges as

0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:23.000
<v Speaker 2>well as Lawn Cheney Jr.

0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:25.480
<v Speaker 3>This one has a lot of narration. I don't know

0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:27.759
<v Speaker 3>who's narrating, but I watched the scene you sent me,

0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:30.280
<v Speaker 3>and like, it's the exact same thing. A kid goes swimming,

0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 3>clam bites his leg, somebody has to swim down and

0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:35.959
<v Speaker 3>rescue him, though it looks a lot easier this time.

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:38.680
<v Speaker 3>The person who swims down and rescues the kid and

0:36:38.680 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 3>the clam just kind of pulls him out.

0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:42.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he just goes down and negotiates the situation. That's

0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:53.720
<v Speaker 2>right now.

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:57.759
<v Speaker 3>All this twentieth century killer clam stuff, when you look

0:36:57.800 --> 0:37:02.920
<v Speaker 3>into it, it's not like really claims based on anything specific.

0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 3>There are claims that are supposed to be authentic, but

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:10.440
<v Speaker 3>they're just vague generalizations. And then there's also pop culture.

0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:14.960
<v Speaker 3>But are there any actual, specific, first hand accounts of

0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:20.480
<v Speaker 3>giant clam attacks in the twentieth century. There's one main one,

0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:24.239
<v Speaker 3>though it will come with some major caveats. So a

0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:28.000
<v Speaker 3>lot of these stories seem to trace back to a

0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:32.360
<v Speaker 3>figure named Wilburn Dowell Cobb, an American who wrote an

0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:36.480
<v Speaker 3>article called the Pearl of a Llah in the November

0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 3>nineteen thirty nine edition of Natural History magazine. Cobb was

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:44.920
<v Speaker 3>at the time he wrote this article the owner of

0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:50.319
<v Speaker 3>a massive clam pearl. And I'm not fully up on

0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 3>this distinction, but I know gemologists make some kind of

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 3>distinction between clam pearls and some other kind of pearls.

0:37:56.440 --> 0:37:58.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm to understand that this thing is huge enough to

0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:02.920
<v Speaker 3>be considered really, you know, notable and valuable, but that

0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:06.040
<v Speaker 3>generally clam pearls are not as prized as like the

0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:09.319
<v Speaker 3>iridescent kinds of pearls you might get from pearl oysters.

0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, that's my understanding as well. The basic the composition

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:13.040
<v Speaker 2>is different.

0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but Cob was the owner of this gigantic clam pearl.

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.880
<v Speaker 3>He originally called it the Pearl of Allah. He later

0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:25.279
<v Speaker 3>renamed it the Pearl of laod Zoo. Which at the

0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:28.319
<v Speaker 3>time this article was written, this pearl was advertised as

0:38:28.400 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 3>the largest pearl ever found in nature. Cobb claimed that

0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:36.400
<v Speaker 3>he acquired it as a gift from a pearl diving

0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:40.600
<v Speaker 3>family in the Philippine province of Palawan in nineteen thirty four,

0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:45.600
<v Speaker 3>and so his story goes like this again. After this,

0:38:45.680 --> 0:38:47.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to come back with some reasons for doubting this,

0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:50.080
<v Speaker 3>but this is what he says. He says that he

0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:55.160
<v Speaker 3>was visiting a small diac fishing village on an archaeological

0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:58.800
<v Speaker 3>expedition with some companions. Now, I was a little confused

0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:01.320
<v Speaker 3>about the terminal he was using to refer to the

0:39:01.360 --> 0:39:04.480
<v Speaker 3>people here, because from what I understand, the term Diek

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:07.600
<v Speaker 3>is usually used to refer to the largest ethnic group

0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:11.880
<v Speaker 3>in Borneo, not to the people of Palawan. I'm not

0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:15.640
<v Speaker 3>sure what accounts for this, but anyway, he says, one

0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:19.680
<v Speaker 3>night he was awakened by a great commotion and it

0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:23.680
<v Speaker 3>seemed to be a funeral. Dirge Cobb's guide explained that

0:39:23.800 --> 0:39:27.080
<v Speaker 3>his own son, who was the village chief, bog Tong,

0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:31.440
<v Speaker 3>had organized a dive to collect conk shells, which the

0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:35.720
<v Speaker 3>villagers planned to trade at market for some much needed

0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:40.000
<v Speaker 3>new fishing equipment. But after several dives, bog Tong realized

0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:44.240
<v Speaker 3>one of his best divers, a man named Etim, was missing.

0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:47.680
<v Speaker 3>And then here I'm going to read from Cobb's article,

0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:52.120
<v Speaker 3>he writes quote, Suspecting a giant octopus, they unsheathed their

0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:55.399
<v Speaker 3>knives and as one dove down in search of their

0:39:55.440 --> 0:39:59.720
<v Speaker 3>missing comrade. On the fourth dive, they found Etem already dead.

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:02.840
<v Speaker 3>In his search for conk shells, he had failed to

0:40:02.880 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 3>see the giant tridacna clam, which was partly hidden by

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:10.640
<v Speaker 3>coral rocks, its huge jaws held open ready to clamp

0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:15.279
<v Speaker 3>shut with the strength of a bear trap. Attim accidentally

0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:19.279
<v Speaker 3>got his hand between the shells, which snapped shut, and

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.560
<v Speaker 3>thus he met his death. With the aid of ropes,

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:26.040
<v Speaker 3>the men hoisted their dead comrade and his deep sea

0:40:26.200 --> 0:40:28.520
<v Speaker 3>murderer into one of their canoes.

0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Deep sea murder. Again, these are generally found in coral

0:40:32.719 --> 0:40:33.480
<v Speaker 2>reef environments.

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Right, So Cobb claims that this clam, which was brought ashore,

0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:43.319
<v Speaker 3>was later revealed to contain a gigantic pearl, and it

0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:47.080
<v Speaker 3>was The pearl was first claimed by a local Muslim chieftain,

0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:50.560
<v Speaker 3>but then given to Cob as a gift after Cob

0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:54.760
<v Speaker 3>managed to save the chief's son from a deadly illness. Again,

0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:59.640
<v Speaker 3>this is all his own account, so there is at

0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:04.080
<v Speaker 3>least a first hand account of a giant clam snapping

0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:07.320
<v Speaker 3>down on somebody and drowning them, and the pearl itself

0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.479
<v Speaker 3>is actually real, but the story of where it came

0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:14.640
<v Speaker 3>from that has met with intense scrutiny from later reviewers.

0:41:15.280 --> 0:41:17.520
<v Speaker 3>I didn't have time to chase down all of the

0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 3>different investigations of this. There have been several, but it

0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:26.000
<v Speaker 3>seems that multiple later articles point out serious reasons for

0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:30.240
<v Speaker 3>doubting the story, including the fact that Cobb changed major

0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:34.279
<v Speaker 3>details of the story over time. There was no corroborating

0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:38.480
<v Speaker 3>evidence or documentation of this from the Philippines, and Frankly,

0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:41.359
<v Speaker 3>while well this is just subjective and doesn't really bear

0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:44.840
<v Speaker 3>any evidential weight, I have to say just because I

0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:48.399
<v Speaker 3>noticed it myself. If you read Cobb's article, it has

0:41:48.520 --> 0:41:52.560
<v Speaker 3>a fabulous texture in the pros it reads like a

0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.560
<v Speaker 3>guy making up a story to make himself sound cool.

0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:59.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it sounds a little carney. It sounds very much

0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:02.319
<v Speaker 2>like someone selling the lore of the thing he is

0:42:02.440 --> 0:42:03.280
<v Speaker 2>literally selling.

0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:05.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if you want to read more, about this. There's

0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:08.440
<v Speaker 3>an article in the Atlantic called The Pearl of Laosu

0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:11.359
<v Speaker 3>by Michael LaPoint from twenty eighteen, and that gets into

0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:15.760
<v Speaker 3>the whole history of this pearl and also what happened

0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:19.000
<v Speaker 3>to it, because there was also some ownership controversy after Cobb.

0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:24.239
<v Speaker 3>Another commonly repeated claim when people are writing about this

0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:28.160
<v Speaker 3>idea that giant clams will attack people or clamp onto

0:42:28.239 --> 0:42:31.560
<v Speaker 3>them and trap them underwater is the claim that US

0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:37.000
<v Speaker 3>Navy diving manuals of the twentieth century portrayed the grip

0:42:37.120 --> 0:42:39.920
<v Speaker 3>of the giant clam as one of the perils of

0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:44.040
<v Speaker 3>working on the bottom. For example, there's an article that

0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:46.560
<v Speaker 3>I think you referred me to rob that was in

0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 3>Atlas Obscura. It's about giant clams, but it's actually it's

0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 3>an excerpt from a book by an author named Cynthia Barnett.

0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:55.799
<v Speaker 3>The book came out in twenty twenty two and it's

0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:59.080
<v Speaker 3>called The Sound of the Sea, Seashells and the Fate

0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:03.120
<v Speaker 3>of the Ocean. In this excerpt of the author rights quote,

0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:06.399
<v Speaker 3>the stories captured the imagination of the US Navy during

0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:09.200
<v Speaker 3>World War Two, when soldiers fighting in the Pacific were

0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:13.319
<v Speaker 3>briefed on the man eating clams and large sharks known

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.160
<v Speaker 3>to inhabit the reefs. The man eater myth was so

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:21.200
<v Speaker 3>persistent that decades later, navy diving manuals still advised frogmen

0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 3>how to free themselves if caught in the vice like

0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:27.840
<v Speaker 3>grip of a giant clam, by inserting a knife between

0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:30.800
<v Speaker 3>the valves and severing the animal's a ductor muscle.

0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I ran across this tidbit and a couple other

0:43:34.520 --> 0:43:37.840
<v Speaker 2>sources I was looking at as well. But again, but

0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:41.320
<v Speaker 2>in terms of finding the original material, I couldn't couldn't

0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:42.160
<v Speaker 2>really find anything.

0:43:42.360 --> 0:43:44.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I have no reason to doubt Barnett. I'm sure

0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:47.200
<v Speaker 3>it is out there somewhere, But unfortunately I wasted a

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:50.120
<v Speaker 3>lot of time searching in vain for the primary text here.

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:53.920
<v Speaker 3>I was looking through navy diving manuals of the forties, fifties,

0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:57.040
<v Speaker 3>and seventies, and I never found any references to clams.

0:43:57.080 --> 0:44:00.400
<v Speaker 3>In fact, I couldn't find anything at all really about

0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:05.440
<v Speaker 3>dealing with wildlife. The sections on dealing with hazards and

0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:10.920
<v Speaker 3>working on the bottom are highly concerned with various forms

0:44:10.920 --> 0:44:13.719
<v Speaker 3>of entrapment underwater, But it looks to me like the

0:44:13.760 --> 0:44:17.680
<v Speaker 3>most pressing concern is what's called fouling, which is when

0:44:17.760 --> 0:44:22.400
<v Speaker 3>the diver's lifeline or air hose gets caught or tangled

0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.799
<v Speaker 3>on something on the bottom, like rocks or wreckage, and

0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:28.640
<v Speaker 3>this is very dangerous because it prevents the diver from

0:44:28.719 --> 0:44:32.760
<v Speaker 3>safely ascending. I found very little about the diver themself

0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:37.279
<v Speaker 3>being caught bodily, though in terms of threats to your

0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:41.240
<v Speaker 3>own body orientation, there are concerns about getting knocked over

0:44:41.520 --> 0:44:44.799
<v Speaker 3>or tripping and falling on a dive because in this era,

0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:50.280
<v Speaker 3>divers would wear a heavy metal helmet applied at the surface,

0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:53.200
<v Speaker 3>kind of like what you see in BioShock, and you

0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:57.399
<v Speaker 3>had to remain upright during a dive or you could

0:44:57.480 --> 0:45:00.680
<v Speaker 3>risk the possibility of flooding the helmet, which was very,

0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:05.040
<v Speaker 3>very bad. So for divers of this period, the real

0:45:05.080 --> 0:45:08.160
<v Speaker 3>monster you have to fear is not a creature that

0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:12.360
<v Speaker 3>lives in the sea. It's hydrostatic pressure, yeah, pressure and

0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:14.920
<v Speaker 3>equipment failures. That's like the main thing to worry about.

0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:17.520
<v Speaker 3>So not only did I not find any references to clams,

0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:20.640
<v Speaker 3>it just seems like wildlife is like so far down

0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:23.200
<v Speaker 3>the list of concerns, like the thing that they're really

0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:26.560
<v Speaker 3>getting into the the diver's heads here has to do

0:45:26.880 --> 0:45:30.720
<v Speaker 3>with with dealing with pressure and using your equipment properly.

0:45:31.239 --> 0:45:36.120
<v Speaker 2>That's right, Yeah, yeah, pressure equipment issues, the threats posed

0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:39.680
<v Speaker 2>potentially by other boats if they're not aware of your presence,

0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:43.759
<v Speaker 2>things like that. Yeah, you know, to be clear, I mean,

0:45:43.800 --> 0:45:49.560
<v Speaker 2>there are various threats in the water posed by organisms,

0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:54.120
<v Speaker 2>but a certainly the giant clam doesn't really rank highly

0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:56.640
<v Speaker 2>among them. And I mean there's even a case to

0:45:56.640 --> 0:46:00.800
<v Speaker 2>be made this references here. I'll point outs in reef

0:46:00.920 --> 0:46:05.200
<v Speaker 2>environments and you know, when I was in reef environments

0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:08.520
<v Speaker 2>in raja Ampat, there are sharks around, but they were

0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:12.319
<v Speaker 2>not interested in us at all. So it does make

0:46:12.400 --> 0:46:16.799
<v Speaker 2>me wonder. Okay, if playing Devil's advocate, let's assume that

0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:21.319
<v Speaker 2>there actually was reference to this in US Navy dive

0:46:21.360 --> 0:46:24.360
<v Speaker 2>manuals of the time period. You could look at it

0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:28.200
<v Speaker 2>in one of two ways. Either, Okay, there this idea

0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:31.840
<v Speaker 2>was taken up that these organisms were potentially a threat

0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:33.920
<v Speaker 2>and therefore you needed some sort of a plan of

0:46:33.960 --> 0:46:38.600
<v Speaker 2>action should the threat arise. But maybe also a part

0:46:38.600 --> 0:46:40.719
<v Speaker 2>of it could have been Okay, we're training up a

0:46:40.719 --> 0:46:44.239
<v Speaker 2>lot of a lot of landsmen here to go into

0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:47.040
<v Speaker 2>the water and do things for the Navy. They're going

0:46:47.120 --> 0:46:50.399
<v Speaker 2>to have concerns about organisms in the water because they've

0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:52.840
<v Speaker 2>been watching movies or reading comic books or listening to

0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:56.520
<v Speaker 2>radio programs, and or we just have a natural aversion

0:46:56.680 --> 0:47:01.240
<v Speaker 2>to large, strange creatures in the water. Understandable. And maybe

0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:04.960
<v Speaker 2>part of that was like, Okay, there's no reason that

0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:08.160
<v Speaker 2>the giant clam is actually a threat. There's no reason

0:47:08.200 --> 0:47:10.759
<v Speaker 2>that even some of these sharks are necessarily a threat.

0:47:10.800 --> 0:47:13.239
<v Speaker 2>But we need to have give them a plan of

0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:15.960
<v Speaker 2>action so they'll feel more at ease in the water

0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:18.759
<v Speaker 2>knowing that there is something they can do if this,

0:47:19.600 --> 0:47:21.239
<v Speaker 2>if this event were to transpire.

0:47:21.960 --> 0:47:24.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, you know, I wouldn't say, based on what

0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:28.640
<v Speaker 3>I was reading, that a giant clam would never be

0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:31.200
<v Speaker 3>a threat. But I would say that it doesn't appear

0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:33.160
<v Speaker 3>to me that the main threat would be that it

0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:35.720
<v Speaker 3>would close upon you. It would be that you would

0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:37.799
<v Speaker 3>It would be the same threat as like a rock

0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:40.120
<v Speaker 3>or a reef on the ground, which is fouling you

0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:42.439
<v Speaker 3>would get your lines tangled on it.

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I would. I would agree with that, treating

0:47:45.840 --> 0:47:51.959
<v Speaker 2>it essentially like like any other large structure or rock

0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:53.799
<v Speaker 2>or piece of coral in the water.

0:47:54.200 --> 0:47:56.880
<v Speaker 3>So beyond all this, I checked around, and from what

0:47:56.960 --> 0:48:01.960
<v Speaker 3>I can tell, the killer clam story is universally agreed

0:48:02.080 --> 0:48:05.319
<v Speaker 3>among experts a marine biologists to be without merit. There

0:48:05.360 --> 0:48:08.640
<v Speaker 3>is no solid evidence anywhere of a single example of

0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:12.200
<v Speaker 3>a person ever being killed, seriously injured, or trapped by

0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:17.239
<v Speaker 3>a tridachna lam. Marine biology resources stress again and again that,

0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 3>like you were saying earlier, Rob, the clamshell can close defensively,

0:48:21.520 --> 0:48:24.640
<v Speaker 3>but it tends to close slowly. It has to expel

0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:27.520
<v Speaker 3>water to do so, and it has to retract its

0:48:27.600 --> 0:48:30.879
<v Speaker 3>own flesh, which tends to protrude out of the gap

0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:35.879
<v Speaker 3>in the shell. So apart from Cobb's story, which there

0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:40.000
<v Speaker 3>are serious reasons for doubting, there's no documented account anywhere

0:48:40.000 --> 0:48:42.280
<v Speaker 3>of a giant clam actually harming anyone.

0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you'd really have to, like Homer sense in your

0:48:45.120 --> 0:48:49.080
<v Speaker 2>arm in there, Like Sarah, you just just holding on

0:48:49.280 --> 0:48:51.640
<v Speaker 2>to the inside of the clam. You're just holding on

0:48:51.719 --> 0:48:54.319
<v Speaker 2>to the mantle tissue, and you say, yes, actually that's

0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:54.960
<v Speaker 2>what I'm doing.

0:48:55.120 --> 0:48:56.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, I mean, I guess the other thing to

0:48:56.880 --> 0:49:00.279
<v Speaker 3>say is that it has never actually happened that we

0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:04.520
<v Speaker 3>know about in any verifiable way. Is different from saying

0:49:04.840 --> 0:49:08.640
<v Speaker 3>it couldn't happen if you did something really stupid right

0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:10.719
<v Speaker 3>like I don't know, if you like, maybe if you

0:49:10.960 --> 0:49:13.880
<v Speaker 3>really like shoved a boot down in there and you

0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:17.040
<v Speaker 3>forced it to stay inside while the clam was closing,

0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:19.960
<v Speaker 3>and until the clam had closed around you, it might

0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:21.160
<v Speaker 3>be hard to get it back out.

0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:22.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but that.

0:49:24.239 --> 0:49:28.960
<v Speaker 3>We have no examples that are verifiable that this has happened.

0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Don't try to be the first. I feel like you'd

0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:35.319
<v Speaker 2>really have to try. You'd really have to get in

0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:38.160
<v Speaker 2>there and really tempt fate and try to make this

0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:40.839
<v Speaker 2>happen for yourself. And you know, I guess there's one

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.200
<v Speaker 2>way to go down in the history books, but surely

0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:47.320
<v Speaker 2>there's a better option. You'd have to again, essentially frame

0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:50.319
<v Speaker 2>a giant clam for murder, which I don't think is fair.

0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:53.680
<v Speaker 3>They don't need any more trouble there. I mean, they're

0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:55.960
<v Speaker 3>having a hard time, they take a long time to grow,

0:49:56.480 --> 0:50:00.280
<v Speaker 3>they've been over harvested. Giant giant clams need a break.

0:50:00.400 --> 0:50:04.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, leave them be, keep a respect respectful distance, but

0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:06.680
<v Speaker 2>by all means observe them if you get the chance.

0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Like I say, it was it beautiful and weird to

0:50:10.120 --> 0:50:13.320
<v Speaker 2>be in their presence. I can't stress both enough. Again,

0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:17.040
<v Speaker 2>their mantle tissue is beautiful, their size alone can be

0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:19.880
<v Speaker 2>quite a spectacle. But there is also something kind of weird,

0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:23.799
<v Speaker 2>because again we can't help but read them as analogs

0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:27.400
<v Speaker 2>of human physiology, and it's, you know, weird that they're

0:50:27.520 --> 0:50:30.640
<v Speaker 2>kind of like smiling up at us from the from

0:50:30.719 --> 0:50:31.360
<v Speaker 2>the seafloor.

0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:35.879
<v Speaker 3>Smile back, yes, get out of their light.

0:50:37.120 --> 0:50:38.840
<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, I think that's going to do it

0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:40.600
<v Speaker 2>for this episode. But of course we'd love to hear

0:50:40.640 --> 0:50:43.719
<v Speaker 2>from everyone out there. We've heard in the past from

0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:48.160
<v Speaker 2>snorkelers and divers, you know, with lots of experience. So

0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I know we have some snorkelers and divers out there

0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:53.440
<v Speaker 2>who have more experience with giant clams or clams in general,

0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:58.160
<v Speaker 2>and might want to chime in with their own expertise, observations,

0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:02.240
<v Speaker 2>or you know lore that you've heard from maybe fellow

0:51:02.680 --> 0:51:07.520
<v Speaker 2>older divers and snorkelers about giant clams, whether it's pure

0:51:07.560 --> 0:51:10.719
<v Speaker 2>mythology or fact base. We'd love to hear about you,

0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:12.839
<v Speaker 2>So write in just a reminder that stuff to Blow

0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast, with

0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:17.799
<v Speaker 2>core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We have short form

0:51:17.840 --> 0:51:19.880
<v Speaker 2>episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set us like

0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:22.120
<v Speaker 2>most serious concerns, to just talk about a weird film

0:51:22.160 --> 0:51:23.320
<v Speaker 2>on Weird House Cinema.

0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:27.640
<v Speaker 3>Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:29.520
<v Speaker 3>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:32.040
<v Speaker 3>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:34.080
<v Speaker 3>a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:37.040
<v Speaker 3>you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

0:51:37.080 --> 0:51:45.840
<v Speaker 3>your Mind dot com.

0:51:46.000 --> 0:51:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:51:49.000 --> 0:51:51.800
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:51:51.960 --> 0:52:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.