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Speaker 1: The Michael Barry Show.

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Speaker 2: My favorites tend to change, and therefore I don't really

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Speaker 2: name favorites, but I would say right now, my favorite

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Speaker 2: comedian is Norm MacDonald. Norm McDonald is what I would

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Speaker 2: consider a fearless comic. He told jokes often, not only

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Speaker 2: knowing they would bomb, hoping they would bomb. He enjoyed

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Speaker 2: the discomfort. It was kind of an Andy Kaufman type

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Speaker 2: thing for him. It's an incredible show of power.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: But he also had had an insight into the way

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Speaker 2: we think, the way we process our hypocrisy, our peacocky,

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Speaker 2: and that I always found quite fascinating and wonderful. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: he was a comedian, writer, actor. He was Canadian, as

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Speaker 2: so many great comedians and singers have been.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He was known for what I would call a sharp

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Speaker 2: wit and a very dry delivery, and his humor was

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Speaker 2: shall we say, deadpan, And if it was a joke

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Speaker 2: that bombed, if it fell flat, he didn't address the

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Speaker 2: fact that it fell flat. He looked at you as

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Speaker 2: if to say, what are you going to do now?

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Speaker 2: It was a complete power move and I loved it.

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Speaker 2: You will remember him as rising to fame in the uh,

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Speaker 2: I guess that would have been the nineties. Yeah, early nineties,

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Speaker 2: because he's claimed to fame. Was was was his whole

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Speaker 2: OJ coverage. He was on Saturday Night Live, and he

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Speaker 2: was the anchor of Weekend Update, which has which has

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Speaker 2: launched some careers, starting of course with Chevy Chase. His

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Speaker 2: style was at that point biting. He was, he was,

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Speaker 2: he was really feeling his oats at that point. And

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Speaker 2: there was a guy named was it Norm Omeyer, Dave Olmeyer,

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Speaker 2: Ohmeyer's guy's name, and he was big buddies with OJ,

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Speaker 2: and he didn't want OJ to be talked about as

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Speaker 2: part of the jokes on Weekend Update. So Norm McDonald

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Speaker 2: would do it every week, sometimes multiple times, and they

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Speaker 2: finally called him in and said, look, you're gonna be

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Speaker 2: fired if you bring it up. And his point was

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Speaker 2: it has to be talked about, and he did and

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Speaker 2: they fired him.

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Speaker 4: By the way, you can now purchase a bronze statue

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Speaker 4: of the jokes for only three three hundred and ninety

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Speaker 4: five dollars, and for an even five grand you can

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Speaker 4: buy one that Al Collings has kissed the ass of

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Speaker 4: According to retailer, is the most popular Halloween mass This

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Speaker 4: year is OJ Simpson and the most popular Halloween greeting

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Speaker 4: is I'll kill you and that guy who's bringing over

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Speaker 4: your glasses or treats. And the Pope came out of

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Speaker 4: the book this week, which contains a series of essays

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Speaker 4: examining faith and morality in today's secular world and the

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Speaker 4: changing role of the Catholic Church as it approaches the

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Speaker 4: twenty first century. The book is entitled God Himself told

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Speaker 4: Me that OJ is Guilty. In other book news, Prince

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Speaker 4: Charles released an autobiography in which he states that he

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Speaker 4: never loved Princess Die and that his father pressured him

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Speaker 4: to marry her. The book is entitled of Course OJ

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Speaker 4: did it? I mean, come on. In his book, O. J.

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Speaker 4: Simpson says that he would have taken a bullet or

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Speaker 4: stood in front of a train for Nicole Man. I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna tell you, that is some bad luck. When the

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Speaker 4: one guy who would have died for you kills you.

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Speaker 5: That's part of.

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Speaker 3: You.

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Speaker 4: Don't get worse luck than that. And OJ announced this

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Speaker 4: week that he's coming out with a new book called

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Speaker 4: I Want to Tell You and if it's successful, OJ

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Speaker 4: will work on yet another book entitled From Football to

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Speaker 4: prison my twenty five years of showering with other men.

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Speaker 4: And finally, in honor of the fiftieth anniversary of their

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Speaker 4: first publication, Random House will be releasing special commemorative issues

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Speaker 4: of many Doctor Seuss classics. The first to hit the

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Speaker 4: bookshelves will be Green Eggs and Ham and oj is Guilty.

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Speaker 2: And what I love about this is didn't they bring

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Speaker 2: him back? A year? Year and a half later they

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Speaker 2: bring him back to guest host And instead of just

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Speaker 2: letting it go and pretending that they hadn't just fired him. No, no, no,

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Speaker 2: let me make this as awkward as possible for you.

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Speaker 4: You know what, the people with the people here asked

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Speaker 4: me to do the show. You know, I got to say,

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Speaker 4: I felt kind of weird.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember this, but I used

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Speaker 4: to actually be on this show.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I used to do the weekend update news routine. You

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Speaker 4: remember that, and uh, yeah, that's where I did the

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Speaker 4: make believe news jokes. You know that was me?

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So, then a year and a half ago, right, I

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Speaker 4: had a sort of a disagreement with the management at

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Speaker 4: at the NBC.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to keep my job, right and they felt

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Speaker 4: the exact opposite. So so you see, they like they

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Speaker 4: fired me because they said that I wasn't funny. You

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Speaker 4: know now, now, with most jobs, I could have had

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Speaker 4: a hell of a lawsuit on my hands for that.

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Speaker 4: But but see, this is a comedy show, so they

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Speaker 4: got me, you know, you know, you know. But now

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Speaker 4: it was the weird part, right. It's only a year

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Speaker 4: and a half later, and now they asked me to

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Speaker 4: host the show. So I wondered, I go, hey, wait

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Speaker 4: a second here.

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Speaker 5: Hey, I know, how did I go in a year

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Speaker 5: and a half from being not funny enough to be

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Speaker 5: even allowed in the building.

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Speaker 4: To being so funny that I'm now hosting the show?

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Speaker 4: How did I suddenly get so damn funny? It was

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Speaker 4: inexplicable to me because a year and a half, let's face,

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Speaker 4: is not enough time for a dude to learn how

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Speaker 4: to be funny. Dan, it occurred to me, I haven't

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Speaker 4: gotten funnier. The show has gotten really bad. Yeah I'm

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Speaker 4: funny compared to you. Well you'll see later. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: let's recap. The bad news is I'm still not funny.

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Speaker 4: The good news is the show blows all right, folks,

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Speaker 4: we got a bad show for you tonight, doctor Dre Snook,

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Speaker 4: Doggy dog whatever.

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Speaker 2: If you don't understand why I love that and why

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Speaker 2: he did that, you never will. And that's okay. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't make you a bad person, doesn't make you just

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Speaker 2: you don't get it. But if you understand why he

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Speaker 2: had to do that, then you're probably similar to that.

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Speaker 2: And I am as well forcing that difficult moments. It's

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite moments in all of comedy and

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Speaker 2: then all of Saturday Night Live beyond Saturday Night Live.

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Speaker 2: Norm McDonald appeared in TV shows, films like Dirty Work

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Speaker 2: with Chevy Chase. If you if you have Netflix, there

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Speaker 2: is a show called Norm MacDonald has a show or

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Speaker 2: something like that, and his interview with Chevy Chase, they're

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Speaker 2: very similar, is extraordinarily awkward and extraordinarily glorious, and he

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Speaker 2: talks about not Chevy Chase, Dave Chappelle. He was in

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Speaker 2: a Dirty Work Dave Chappelle. He did stand up specials.

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Speaker 2: He had a he had a rather unique voice and delivery,

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Speaker 2: and he would often mis pronounce words on purpose, including

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Speaker 2: his own name, and you had to really get him

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Speaker 2: to get him, and if you did, you knew that

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Speaker 2: he was making jokes that not everyone would get. And

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Speaker 2: there's a certain kind of almost hipster element to that.

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Speaker 2: You know, we get the joke.

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Speaker 1: And I just said, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, which is which is one of his which was

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Speaker 2: one of his crutches. We get the joke.

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Speaker 1: Can I bet nobody else does? It makes you feel special.

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Speaker 2: One of the programs he appeared on was CTV News

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Speaker 2: with Joy Malboon, and I think she's his sister in law.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't even really sure when I first saw this

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Speaker 2: if this thing was a parody or not. But it's

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Speaker 2: a straight interview. He never does anything straight. Everything is

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Speaker 2: kind of a character on Letterman on Conan O'Brien. But

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Speaker 2: the reason he's the subject of our muse this Saturday

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Speaker 2: Bonus podcast is a because I love him and I've

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Speaker 2: been going deep into his body of work. But b

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Speaker 2: he says some really interesting things about the fact that

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Kimmels and the Fallon and all these folks who

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Speaker 2: are out there bashing Trump, that that's the weakest form

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Speaker 2: of comedy.

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Speaker 4: Trump is so bad at lying. He lets the public

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Speaker 4: immediately know you lie.

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Speaker 5: If Trump ever had to take a lie detector test,

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Speaker 5: he'd probably just draw the crazy himself.

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Speaker 4: I did not collude with Russia.

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Speaker 6: Since he announced his candidacy, Donald Trump has been fodder

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Speaker 6: for late night hosts and throw out his presidency. They

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Speaker 6: found new material in his policy and speeches and all

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Speaker 6: those tweets riffing off Trump has become a ratings bonanza,

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Speaker 6: and some are hitting the president pretty hard, infusing their

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Speaker 6: satire with objection and analysis. But is their comedy in

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Speaker 6: today's politics? Joining me now from Santa Monica, California, Norm

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Speaker 6: McDonald and now, full disclosure, we've shared many off camera laughs.

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Speaker 6: He's my brother in law. So hello, Norm, Welcome to

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Speaker 6: question period. So comedy in the time of Trump is

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Speaker 6: it more difficult than it was when you were on

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Speaker 6: Saturday Night Live.

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Speaker 3: It's more difficult in the time of Trump for good comedians,

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Speaker 3: and it's way easier for bad comedians. You know, have

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Speaker 3: a worldview by just saying you don't like Trump, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, that doesn't count. Like you can't

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Speaker 3: you can't just say I hate Trump and that makes

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Speaker 3: you a good person. And the Democrats just can't say

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Speaker 3: I hate Trump, and that means they have a position.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's no position. So for for idiots, it's

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Speaker 3: an easier time because you go, well, that guy's the idiot,

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Speaker 3: not me. But if you try to do smart comedy,

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Speaker 3: it's better to stay away from stay away from Trump.

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Speaker 6: You know you met Donald Trump when he was on

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Speaker 6: the Tonight Show, on Jimmy Fallon Show. Now, tell us

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Speaker 6: about that encounter you had with Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: Well, I met Donald Trump many many times in New

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Speaker 3: York City, just because when I was on the Saturday

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Speaker 3: Night Live, he was a fixture in New York City

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Speaker 3: and he come to a lot of the shows, and

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Speaker 3: he was just a local eccentric. You know that people

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Speaker 3: mostly loved in New York because he fixed the rink

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Speaker 3: in Central Park when the city couldn't. But you know

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Speaker 3: when I was on Jimmy Fallon, he was. That's when

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Speaker 3: he was. That's when Jimmy Fallon tussled his hair and

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Speaker 3: and got in trouble for it. And I was the

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Speaker 3: other guest. So I was just down in the hallway

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Speaker 3: and I said, Donald, can I have a picture? You

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Speaker 3: could call him Donald? Then, I guess you can still

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Speaker 3: call him Donald. We don't have to call him president apparently.

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Speaker 3: But I said, can I get a picture with you?

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Speaker 3: And he said, yeah, absolutely, Sure, Norham and then he

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Speaker 3: walked down the hall and got in the elevator with

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Speaker 3: a secret service guy. So, but he was just doing

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Speaker 3: it as a joke. A lot of times. The problem

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Speaker 3: with Kennedy, said our political candidate said, do comedy is

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Speaker 3: obviously comedy doesn't translate well to the page sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 3: sarcasm has lost obviously and things like that. So if

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Speaker 3: someone says something that's meant self disparagingly or satirically and

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Speaker 3: you want to take it out of context, you can.

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Speaker 3: That happened at a lot of times with Trump on

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Speaker 3: the campaign trail.

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Speaker 6: But you know he's being caricatured on Saturday Night Life,

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Speaker 6: like quite mercilessly by Alec Baldwin, Like is it funny

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Speaker 6: to you? Is that funny?

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Speaker 3: No? The only reason I don't find funny. When I

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Speaker 3: was there, Darryl Hammond did Donald Trump and then shows

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Speaker 3: how far back Trump goes because that was twenty years ago.

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Speaker 3: But Daryl did him then it was a softer Trump.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think it was a Trump was a

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Speaker 3: lot closer to his real self. But if you do

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Speaker 3: the problem that if you do an impression of someone,

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Speaker 3: you have to like that person, you know, because you're

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Speaker 3: playing the person, and people like themselves, so you can't

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Speaker 3: play someone and have contempt for them at the same time.

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Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't work as an impression. So I

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Speaker 3: don't like I don't like his impression, and I have

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Speaker 3: no political affiliation. I just mean from a comedy, from

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Speaker 3: a comedy.

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Speaker 6: Level, where is the funny in Donald Trump? Because he

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Speaker 6: does think he's funny, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but other people think he's funny too. I attended

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Speaker 3: one of his just to see, you know, because because

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Speaker 3: I wanted to see it for myself, his performances in

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Speaker 3: front of these grand halls, and he's enormously funny and entertaining.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know that there's normally with politicians. You know,

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Speaker 3: it takes you need to be humble, you know, to

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Speaker 3: be really funny. And I that's why Ronald Reagan was

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Speaker 3: the funniest president that IRIS saw, because he always had

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Speaker 3: this humility to him. I was kind of lost with

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Speaker 3: President Obama because people told me he was funny, but

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Speaker 3: to me, he was too self aware. And of course

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Speaker 3: Hillary couldn't have been more strident, you know. And I

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Speaker 3: think people don't vote on issues as much as they

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Speaker 3: just vote on who they'd like that old saw about

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Speaker 3: who you'd rather have a beer with, you know, and

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Speaker 3: nobody want to have a beer with Hillary Clinton. You know.

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Speaker 6: You say that he has to be that one person

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Speaker 6: has to be humble to be funny, But I don't

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Speaker 6: think Donald Trump is very humble.

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Speaker 4: Is he.

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Speaker 3: No, there's no humility to Donald Trump. Donald Trump is

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Speaker 3: more funny in the way that a WWE wrestler is,

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Speaker 3: you know, so he is a different kind of funny,

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Speaker 3: which is a sort of a self deluded I don't

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Speaker 3: know if it's self delusion though, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: it's all I think it's just all an agg I

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Speaker 3: don't think really that Trump wanted to be president. I

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Speaker 3: think that he was always just playing to be president

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Speaker 3: or whatever that hall he was playing in was, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I've seen this happen with comedians too, that you

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Speaker 3: start thinking you're good because the people that come to

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Speaker 3: see you are all like you, you know, But the

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Speaker 3: reason they came to see is because they like you.

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Speaker 3: So politicians and comedians both that make that mistake of

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Speaker 3: thinking they're much better than they are because they're never

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Speaker 3: they're never criticized by the people that don't like them.

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Speaker 3: That's why social media is so good, because you can

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Speaker 3: see the people that don't like you at all.

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Speaker 6: I listened to an interview you gave Larry King, and

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Speaker 6: you said the ruin of Donald Trump will be his

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Speaker 6: addiction to playing the halls.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 6: So he's a great performer. He just wanted to be

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Speaker 6: you like he wanted to be a stand up comedian,

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Speaker 6: and he just accidentally became a president.

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Speaker 3: My guess would be that his plan was to to

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Speaker 3: make a big splash lose. Oh that's not good. What

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Speaker 3: should we do now, Joyce?

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Speaker 6: I just don't answer. Okay, if it's.

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Speaker 4: Should I start answering that question again? Sure?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think him becoming president surprised him. I think

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Speaker 3: you know, it's it's funny that people don't remember. But

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Speaker 3: back in the debates, uh, there was.

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Speaker 4: A big, big.

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Speaker 3: Issue with Donald Trump saying if he lost, it meant

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Speaker 3: the a Look, are you kidding me? I know I

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Speaker 3: that I did one second. Hello, Yes, oh I got

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Speaker 3: to call you back. I'm on the TV, man. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm on the TV right now.

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Speaker 4: But I'll call you right back.

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Speaker 6: Okay, I'm not gonna ask you the question again.

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Speaker 3: I feel that Trump person, I feel that he didn't

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Speaker 3: think he was going to become president. And interestingly, the

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Speaker 3: thing that people don't remember was that what I remember

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Speaker 3: was that during the debates, there was all this talk

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Speaker 3: of Donald Trump saying if he loses, it means the

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Speaker 3: election is rigged, and all the media were saying, no, no,

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Speaker 3: that's impossible. You know, take that back. You cannot say

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Speaker 3: that about the American Republic. No election here could ever

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Speaker 3: be rigged. That's impossible. And of course now they're saying

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Speaker 3: the exact opposite. But I think it was Trump's idea

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Speaker 3: at that point that he would say it was going

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Speaker 3: to be rigged, thinking he thought Hillary was going to win,

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Speaker 3: I think, and then he would start a you know,

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Speaker 3: a network or something like that where he could speak

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Speaker 3: and and be the loyal opposition of his own, you know,

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Speaker 3: something something different than Fox.

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Speaker 6: Let me ask you this, So you're you're your Bob

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Speaker 6: Dole imitation was pretty famous back in the day. So

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Speaker 6: would you do Donald Trump today? Would you do a

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump imitation?

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Speaker 3: I try to not do comedy about Donald Trump, because

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Speaker 3: I think I had one joke about Donald Trump that

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Speaker 3: I ever did, where I said that that that people

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Speaker 3: that Americans hated Hillary Clinton so much that they voted

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Speaker 3: for someone they hated more than Hillary Clinton to rub

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Speaker 3: it in. And that's the only time I ever made

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Speaker 3: a joke about Trump. But I try to stay away

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Speaker 3: from it because it's just, you know, it's low hanging fruit.

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Speaker 3: And and and also you know, Trump oftentimes is doing

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Speaker 3: self parody, and nothing looks a dumber then if your

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Speaker 3: parody self parody, you know, you really get caught not understanding.

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Speaker 6: Zora McDonald, Thanks so much for being with us today,

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Speaker 6: for spending this time with us.

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Speaker 4: It was great.

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Speaker 6: Great to see you.

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Speaker 4: Great to see you. I love you, Joyce, love you too.

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Speaker 6: Bye bye.

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