WEBVTT - The Gender Bureaucracy And Trans Extermination 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.520 Welcome. Did it could happen? Here? A podcast that's being 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:09.319 done for the first time and not the second time 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.640 because we had bike problems. We did not just record 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.920 a very funny intro that is now completely lost. Yeah, 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:17.840 you'll you'll you'll never hear it. You'll you'll never you 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:24.400 never know what great fun we had. The joy was 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.880 in the creation. They're not none in this sharing Yeah, process, 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.120 not an event structure, etcetera, etcetera. So I'm I'm Mia, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.120 I'm a I'm gonna doing this episode. Also Garrison, this here, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:41.279 hello Hi, and also James, Hi, I'm recording. So we're 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:46.840 good now. Yet the good news is stunning Lee, as 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:48.519 as as as much as it seems we are now 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:50.920 more prepared to record this episode when we're last time. 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.760 So yeah, well what are we? What are we? What 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.920 are we talking about? We we were? We are talking 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.720 about the age of the genter bureaucrat. So as as 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.080 people are probably aware, there is a raft of anti 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.440 trans bill sweeping through state legislatures um. The latest of 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.480 these bills to pass as a time of recording is 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:10.720 the bill in Utah which is banned miners from getting 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.080 gender affirming care like hormone therapy, hormone blockers, and any 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.480 kind of gender affirming surgery for anyone who's not already 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.160 receiving them. Does Does the Utah one also banned like 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:25.679 therapy like talk therapy. No, but they're there, so on 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:27.400 the one hand, doesn't band talk therapy. On the other hand, 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:29.640 there's a provision in there that I think might also 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:34.960 suggest that people do conversion therapy. So that's great. Um 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:39.000 it fucking sucks. Ass uh yeah, kid, kids are going 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.440 to die because of this bill. The people who are 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.600 writing and signing these bills know that kids are going 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.520 to die. We know this because Utah's Governor, Spencer Cox, 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.280 who is the guy who signed the bill, vetoed an 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.120 earlier ban on trans athletes participating in school sports, specifically 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.800 signing the risk of suicide. So she knows this is 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.880 going to kill kids. He signs this anyways, and we 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:00.880 are now living in what I call the age of 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.360 the gender beercrat um. We're gonna spend We're gonna have 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.720 another episode later on where we spend a lot of 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.959 time going through all of the individual bills and the 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.680 stuff Trump has been saying about this. Because Jesus Christ 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.239 pretty pretty pretty grim stuff that they're I mean, on 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.720 the one hand, making making trains people out to be 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.160 the boogeyman who did not work in their favor greatly 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.160 in the midterms. But it seems like they're not trying 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:30.080 to They're not trying to change their their tactics here. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.640 They are still going all in based on Trump's speech 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.560 from a few days ago of of of using the 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.959 using the transgender menace as the as the greatest threats 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.840 to America and the and the and the nuclear family. 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.760 So we'll see how that goes for them, like electorally, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.400 but it's pretty bad rhetoric to see flying around. I 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.280 think they it does really well with the people who 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.960 who allowed and like like you often see this in 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.760 like primaries, right, like people pushed to the limits of 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.600 their party, because that plays well with the most politicized people. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.560 And for sure, if you're going to a Trump rally 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.000 like three years after he got kicked out, yeah you 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:10.919 are also bigot. Yeah. But before we do that, I 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:12.800 I want to, before we actually really do a NEPs 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:14.600 on this, I want to take a look at the 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.800 sort of bureaucratic grounding for this entire thing. And to 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:19.919 do that we need to look at gender bureaucrats and 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.400 the American gender bureaucracy. So I'm going to cite my 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.119 sources a bit and say that I stole this from 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.000 a incredibly unlikely source, which is the Bowist review of 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:36.680 Shrek to what wait stop, never speak those words again. 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.880 This is the Mallist review of Strek two. Is is 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.160 one of the three great sort of text of American maoism. 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.760 There's this one, there's Torgeable Attractive People's War the Florida Everglades, 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.680 and then there's that time the the RCP got into 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.640 a fight with the PSL. They're both trying to grab 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.680 each other's signs. Amazing, amazing stuff. But unfortunately, you know, 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.640 having having come up with the term gender bureaucrat, which 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:03.240 is incredibly useful their maoists, so that they're constitutionally and 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.960 politically just unable to understand what a bureaucrat is. So 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.240 I have now stolen this term and I'm using it 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:15.400 for other purposes. Reappropriate. No, it's stealing their mauists us. 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:20.440 It's never wrong to steal from maoists. Okay, fine, So 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.520 all right, it's getting back sort of more serious stuff 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.680 to understand what this is. I want to talk about 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.960 sort of the term assigned gender at birth. Um, this 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:31.760 used to be a like, I used to be fairly 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.039 common kind of in in in circles to like refer 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.640 to people as like a MAB or a FABS, like 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:39.719 a side mail at birth or assigned female at birth. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.680 And it's a it kind of sucks as the term. 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.640 It's been replaced by other stuff. But I think there's 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.159 something important here, which is I want to go back 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.479 and look at the assigned part, and I want to 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.080 I want to look at the scifically the part about 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:56.960 the gender being assigned, because I think there's something that 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.200 gets lost in sort of popular discussions of this, which 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.200 is that when when people think about like the term 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.280 like the assignment of gender, right, they think about it 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.560 as something that's created socially. Right. They think about it 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.960 as you know, people being like pressured to perform one 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.000 kind of gender or another by the people around them, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.320 sort of by their families, by just like people walking 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.120 down the street. And this is all true, but there's 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.279 also something else going on here. And that's something else 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.840 going on here is we need to ask ourselves when 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.479 we talk about someone's gender being assigned who is it 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:31.240 being assigned by? Because this is an actual specific person, right, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.120 the person who actually assigns your gender is a doctor 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.640 or sometimes a nurse or a midwife. And this person 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.080 is the first gender bureaucrat. They're the first gender breacrat 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.039 because they are the person who sits down and puts 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:48.600 down what your gender is on a form. Now, Okay, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.840 you may be asking yourself, right, Mia, why should anyone 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.920 care that your gender is now on a piece of paper? Well, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.400 because it also maybe like they're they're also mainly, at 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.120 least now in like a like a medical scientific sense, 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.719 it's mainly like, oh, what parts do you have? Um, 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.360 and then using those parts as as a carryover for 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.080 gender as it's been modeled after ever since we stopped 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:18.440 dressing boys and girls and dresses and all the same clothing. Yeah, 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.440 and and well we'll get into sort of like how 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.040 this has sort of changed over time. But okay, so 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.479 to understand why this actually matters, I think what we 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.920 need to talk about what bureaucracy actually is, because this 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:31.880 is a thing that used to be fairly common talk 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:33.719 about on the left, and then people have stopped doing 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.440 over the past maybe like half decade. The anthropologist David 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.719 Graeber wrote extensively about bureaucracy throughout his career. Probably his 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.880 most famous book is one of his later worst, called 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.280 Bullshit Jobs. But I want to go back to an 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.880 earlier thing that he wrote, called The Utopia of Rules. 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.080 I'm gonna'm gonna I'm gonna read a little bit of 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.800 one of the first sections of it. Bureaucratic knowledge is 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:59.520 all about schematization. In practice, bureaucratic procedure invariably means ignoring 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.160 all the dutialties of real life existence and reducing everything 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:07.520 to preconceive mechanical or statistical formula. Whether it's a matter 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.800 of forms, rural statistics, or questionnaires, it is always a 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.360 matter of simplification. Typically, it's not very different from the 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.600 boss who walks into the kitchen to make an arbitrary 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.440 snap pocition as to what went wrong. In either case, 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.560 it is a matter of applying very simple, pre existing 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:27.800 templates to complex and often ambiguous situations. The result often 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.000 leaves those forced to deal with bureaucratic administration with the 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.960 impression that they are dealing with people who have, for 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.240 some arbitrary reason, decided to put on a set of 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.280 glasses that only allows them to see two percent of 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.960 what's in front of them. So, you know, we we 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.360 can see some of the the core aspects of bureaucracy here, right. 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.560 Bureaucracy inherently is an act of simplification. Um because of 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.960 sort of the tech like literally the technical systems of 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.640 what a bureaucracy is, and because of how it how 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.520 it stores information, how it moves information around, it can 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.880 only see the world in incredibly sort of simplified terms. Yeah, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.840 it has to like abstract these things and make assumptions 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.240 based off those abstractions in order to have any type 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.720 of functionality. Yeah, so so great. Greb later says that 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:12.960 like this, you know, Okay, on the one hand, like 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.200 the sort of simplification and model making that goes on 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.520 into bureaucracy can be really really frustrating when you have 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.440 to interact with it. But on the other hand, you know, 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.840 so the reduction of the complex to the simple, it's 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.680 not just you know, a thing that's inherently evil in 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.840 its in and of itself. It's the basis of all 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.440 thoughts because you know, like we we we actually can't 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.160 and like in and our ourselves process the world by 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.560 immediately holding in our minds all of the information at 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.079 one time. Right, the way we understand the world is 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:44.720 simplfications and models. Yeah, and we we it's pattern recognition, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.880 recreating recursive spot loops that give us the very concept 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.360 of meaning. And like that's how we know what words are. Yeah, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.760 and so true. You know, you can you can, you 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.160 can look it's it's also possible to take a lot 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.400 of data and make sense out of it. And this 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:08.280 is this is this is a field called economics marketing. Yeah, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.200 but yeah, you know, okay, so it's it's this is 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.520 also the basis of all social theory, right, Like, like 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.040 social theory is about taking a bunch of incredibly complicated 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.240 like in messy relationships and just statistical stuff and just 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.720 the noise of people doing doing things in everyday lives 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.440 and trying to establish sort of like ways of understanding them. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.560 And you know, this in some sense is a kind 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.480 of violence, right, It's it's a violence of simplification. But 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.760 on the other hand, you know, the violence are during 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.880 to reality here bears more resemble to sort of like 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.800 Bacunian's creative destruction. Right, You're you know, you're imposing a 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.440 kind of violence on reality, you know, in in simplifying 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.000 and destroying a bunch of aspects of it so you 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.040 can understand just like one part of it at a time. 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.240 But you know this, this is a useful thing, right, 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.240 It's how we think, like we we literally couldn't do 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:55.880 anything without it. But as Graver puts it, the problem 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.080 of right the problems arise at the moment that violence 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.959 is no longer better oracle here, let me turn from 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.800 imaginary cops to real ones. Jim Cooper, a former l 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.839 A p D officer turned sociologist, has observed at the 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.560 overwhelming majority of those who end up getting beaten or 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.080 otherwise brutalized by police turned out to be innocent of 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.040 any crime. Cops don't beat up burglars, he writes. The reason, 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.440 he explained, is simple. The one thing most guaranteed to 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.480 provoke a violent reaction from police is a challenge to 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.679 their right to as he puts it, defined the situation. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.000 That is to say, yeah, that that that perfectly describes 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.400 any any physical interaction with police like this is one 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:37.840 of the things I like about Greater because I mean, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.040 this is this is something that I noticed and I 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.320 was in academia. Is it is very very easy to 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.320 tell who, like when you're reading a theorist social theorist 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.480 talking about stuff like who has been to your gas 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:53.439 before it? Who hasn't. Yeah, I'm always reminded when we 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.000 talk about like academics who have a real life of 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:01.400 that picture of Edwards said throwing stones. Yeah, most based 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.400 academic thing anyone his death and like graver, graver, I 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.440 think I think it's been ture gas on five continents 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.760 or something like that, Like he's gotten around, He's used 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.439 on a lot of stuff. Yeah, it is. It is 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.839 always nice whenever you can whenever these types of theorists 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.360 who like, you know, they often will philosophize about like 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.320 the nature of power, in the nature of the state, 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:24.760 and sometimes it can get a little bit wishy washy, 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.079 and it's nice when there's people who do that. Also, 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.320 you know, like the material like the material reality of 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:35.600 like power and how that yeah like how how how 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.360 like the how like the philosophy of power transfers over 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.400 to street politics is always always an interesting difference to 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:47.439 to compare compare various theory too. In I was teaching 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.720 a world history course and obviously it's remote because of 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.440 a pandemic. Right, Um, so, like we would just log 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.640 in in the morning and like fully aware that I 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.000 had seen and been tear gassed with some of my 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.160 students a night before. I've just discussed like how the 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.439 state has a monopoly on violence. People are gonna Yeah, 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:05.800 all the fucking lines up. It's like you've got a 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:10.640 massive bruise again. Yeah, it was. It was very instructive 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.440 and everyone should do it in their history classes. Yeah, okay, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.080 So I'm gonna keep reading from this quote because there's 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:18.320 a couple more things I want. I want to get 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.680 out of this. So okay, So you know he's talking 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.720 about how, like you, you get a violent reaction from 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:27.240 challenging their right to define the situation. That is to say, no, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.200 this isn't a possible crime situation. This is a citizen 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.679 who pays your salary of walking his dog situation. So 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.480 shove off. Let alone the invariably disastrous. Wait, why are 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.840 you handcuffing that guy? He didn't do anything. It's talking 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.800 back above all that inspires beat downs and means challenging 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:48.960 whatever administrative rubric and orderly a disorderly crowd, a properly 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.719 or improperly registered vehicle has been applied by the officers 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:57.400 discretionary judgments. The police truncheon is precisely the point where 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.000 the state's bureaucratic imperative for imposing simple administrative schema and 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.680 it's monopoly on coercive force come together. It only makes 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.960 sense then that bureaucratic violence should consist first and foremost 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.680 on a tacks on those who insist on alternative schemas 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.319 or interpretations. At the same time, if one accepts John 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.880 Page's famous definition of mature intelligence is the ability to 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:26.040 coordinate between multiple perspectives or multiple or possible perspectives, one 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.400 can see here precisely how bureaucratic power, at the moment 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:34.400 it turns to violence, becomes literally a form of infantile stupidity. Yeah, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.560 it's it is this weird, like childlike sense that is 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.400 a that is an interesting combination of thoughts. That's a 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:47.280 fantastic I love it. I like literally read reading this 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.520 book is like one of the things that really sort 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.560 of like committed me to anarchism because you know, like 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.760 it's it's a it's a book that actually takes violence seriously, 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.000 and while talking about bureaucracy with something that really doesn't. 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:03.280 I don't know. It's a good critique, and we kind 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.240 of have lost it over the years. I feel like 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.600 we've gotten into arguments about this sort of thing when 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:13.160 discussing the usefulness of like a Fuco's theories of power 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.800 and like and like how power functions. You've definitely brought 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.160 up this passage before talking about how the extent of 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.800 that is always is always measured by where the truncheon 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.920 is hitting on, like the actual street level. Yeah, but 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.040 you know, okay, Graber isn't writing about gender here really, right, 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.720 He's he's mostly writing about sort of direct police violence. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.480 Although I mean it is worth noting that like all 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.480 of the stuff that he's writing is informed by sort 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.920 of like like by by actually specifically by by actual 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.480 critical race theory and by sort of like uh like 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:48.240 feminder standpoints theory stuff. Um, but you know, okay, if 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:49.920 if if you, if you, if you look back at 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:54.000 this right and you look back at sort of you know, 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.440 the point at which the state's bureaucratic impetue imperative for 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.120 imposing simple administrative ski seams and the monopoly and force 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.640 come together, or specifically the parts that are about right, Like, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.800 the way you get a violent reaction is by being 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.280 something that being something that a bereacrat thinks you're not. Yeah, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:17.280 that is it's challenging their their version of reality. It's 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:22.440 the challenge. It's challenging the validity of their perception of reality. Yeah. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.680 And you know, and if you think about this about 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.240 five seconds, if you're a transperson, that's not good because someone, 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.560 a bureaucrat, has already assigned you a gender at birth 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.760 and if you're not that gender, things are going to 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.040 get really bad really quickly. Well, do you know what 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.480 bureaucracies are actually worthwhile and things that you should definitely 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.880 consider greatly is all of the breaucracies that support the 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:59.160 products and services that that fund this podcast. Well, I 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.200 hope you enjoy your your your your five new bars 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.320 of gold. Thank you for supporting the show. Um, we 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.520 are back. Uh, let's talk about gender and the bureaucracy 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.680 that seeks to contain it violence. So you know, if 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.520 if if you are, for example, intersects the point at 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.320 which the state's bureaucratic imperative for imposing simple administrative schema 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.440 and it's monopoly on course, if force comes together is 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.360 on the operating table of the hospital where you're born. Um, 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.560 you know, first you a doctor assigns you a fucking gender, 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.800 which is never intersects by the way. The doctor just 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.880 decides whether you're male or female, and then you know, 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.640 puts that gender und your birth certificate. Um, it's technically 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.040 possible in some places to get it changed to intersect 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.160 later in life. But when I say it's technically possible, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.920 I there might even more people who have done it. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.400 The first person who we know ever change their gender 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:55.680 to intersect did it in So yeah, I'm sure there 0:16:55.760 --> 0:17:01.160 were I mean, pre bureauqucy indigenous societies. I know that, yes, yeah, 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:02.480 but this is this is yeah, this is yeah. I 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.879 mean like yeah, like and and this is like the 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.800 way that like we treat intersext people also has gotten worse. 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.000 Like yeah, and we're gonna get into this, but it's 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.720 like it's like, you know, this is a very like 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.080 it's a very obvious thing where there's clearly more than 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.480 two genders. And how how society reacts to that, I 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.080 think says you know, A it's it's an enormous sort 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.000 of like it's something enormously impact intersect people, right, like 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.159 you know, you have like an incredible amount of violence 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:40.000 that has flicted onto them. And then secondly, the way 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.600 intersext people is dealt with, it's something that reveals a 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.639 lot about how this society is going to look at 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.159 gender and how society is going to look at the 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.160 enforcement of gender. I think on the point of how 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.280 it's in a lot of ways, the treatment of intertext 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.080 people has gotten has gotten worse in the past like 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.960 a few years. I feel like as the bureaucracy grows, 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.320 the amount of violence that is necessary to maintain it 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:08.520 also grows, and the bigger any any small thing threatens 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.760 the validity of the entire bureaucracy. So they have to 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.480 come down hard on anything that that is that is 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.280 like deviant from that because they need to maintain the 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.200 validity of the system that they have built. I think 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.600 that's definitely an aspect. And the other thing that's really 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.560 really bad is that, you know, we're going to talk 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.600 about bore this more a bit later, but like the 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.280 actual capacity of the bureaucracy to enforce this stuff has 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.320 increased so dramatically even in the last fifty years. It 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.680 is like like the the u S is a if 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.480 to someone to someone living in eight nine, right, the 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.560 modern US is an incomprehensibly bureaucratic society. It is like 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.439 like it may even like the even like the like 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.320 you know, like like some people like yeah, like even 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.000 like the most sort of like totalitarian style and is 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.879 bureaucrat like looks at the u s and it's like, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.399 what the funk guys, you guys are taking taking bureaucracy 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.240 too far? Like the surveillance capacities definitely would like you 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.080 would have loved that well, to to be to be fair, 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.919 to be fair, the East Germans did really well with 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:11.240 what they had, but I think it's really so. I 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.600 think also just in terms of how surveillance impacts the 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.359 way you're able to do gender when you're well and 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.080 when you're getting targeted advertisements for stuff based on your 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.959 Internet searches, they're like that that that's one side of it, 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.560 and there's other sides of it in terms of like, 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.600 you know, people people seeking to make like different gender 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.000 presentations illegal, how the how how that type of surveillance 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:37.119 will eventually lead into pretty pretty druycon Ian well and 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.000 and I think I think in a lot of ways, 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.639 like the violence that has done to intersects kids is 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.240 sort of it's is one of the sort of origin 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.280 points of this. Right Um. I I do actually want 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.160 I want to sort of get into what what this 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.520 is a little bit um since the nice in sixties 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.679 and again that what I'm saying this like this stuff 0:19:55.720 --> 0:20:00.400 is kind of recent, right um, doctors have started commonly 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.600 performing non consensual surgery and intersex kids to force them 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.160 to conform to a gender. Um, here's so much two 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.240 thousand and thirteen report from the United Nations Special Rapporteur 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.920 on Torture that's sited by Human Rights Watch. Children who 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.159 are born with atypical sex characteristics are often subject to 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:23.120 irreversible sex assignments, involuntary sterilization, involuntary genital normalization, surgery performed 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.679 without their informed consent or that of the parents in 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.760 an attempt quote, in an attempt to fix their sex, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:33.560 leaving them with permanent, permanent, irreversible infertility and causing severe 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:40.400 mental suffering. And this is fucking horrible. It happens, it's 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.480 all the time, and on all of the people who 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.200 write these fucking laws that are like giving giving someone 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.520 gender affirming care is like mutilating them. Specifically carve out 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.920 sections so that doctors can keep sucking doing this intersex kids, 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:57.520 and it's horrible. It's really interesting how like, um, so 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.320 often the sports field is a terrain where they kind 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.280 of gets hashed out or like this brutality happens for 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:07.400 the first time, Like the sports governing authorities have been 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:13.520 fucking brutalizing intersect athletes for fifty years now, and every 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.120 time it's because yeah, they'll and they'll they'll put forth 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.320 an argument and then lose in court most of the 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.919 time because they'll they'll seek to advance like a very 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.199 narrow definition of gender based on chromosomeality or something or 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:31.640 testosterone levels or something, and then demonstrably this binary doesn't exist, right, 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.680 and then they'll lose, and they'll respond to losing by 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:39.679 fucking destroying that person. Yeah, it's there are plenty of 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.000 cases people can confined in history of that happening, and yeah, 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.479 it's sucked out. And I think the more I've been 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.440 thinking about this, the more I think that the sort 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.480 of like that a lot of what turfism is is 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.159 this kind of like it's it's attempting to take the 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.840 bureaucratic categories as literal truth but that doesn't work. It 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.080 doesn't It doesn't actually work on a sort of on 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.600 a scientific level or on a sort of more philosophical level, 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.720