1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Welcome. Did it could happen? Here? A podcast that's being 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: done for the first time and not the second time 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: because we had bike problems. We did not just record 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: a very funny intro that is now completely lost. Yeah, 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: you'll you'll you'll never hear it. You'll you'll never you 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: never know what great fun we had. The joy was 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: in the creation. They're not none in this sharing Yeah, process, 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: not an event structure, etcetera, etcetera. So I'm I'm Mia, 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm gonna doing this episode. Also Garrison, this here, 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 1: hello Hi, and also James, Hi, I'm recording. So we're 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: good now. Yet the good news is stunning Lee, as 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: as as as much as it seems we are now 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: more prepared to record this episode when we're last time. 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, well what are we? What are we? What 15 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: are we talking about? We we were? We are talking 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: about the age of the genter bureaucrat. So as as 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: people are probably aware, there is a raft of anti 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: trans bill sweeping through state legislatures um. The latest of 19 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: these bills to pass as a time of recording is 20 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: the bill in Utah which is banned miners from getting 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: gender affirming care like hormone therapy, hormone blockers, and any 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of gender affirming surgery for anyone who's not already 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: receiving them. Does Does the Utah one also banned like 24 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: therapy like talk therapy. No, but they're there, so on 25 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: the one hand, doesn't band talk therapy. On the other hand, 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: there's a provision in there that I think might also 27 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: suggest that people do conversion therapy. So that's great. Um 28 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: it fucking sucks. Ass uh yeah, kid, kids are going 29 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: to die because of this bill. The people who are 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: writing and signing these bills know that kids are going 31 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: to die. We know this because Utah's Governor, Spencer Cox, 32 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: who is the guy who signed the bill, vetoed an 33 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: earlier ban on trans athletes participating in school sports, specifically 34 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: signing the risk of suicide. So she knows this is 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: going to kill kids. He signs this anyways, and we 36 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: are now living in what I call the age of 37 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: the gender beercrat um. We're gonna spend We're gonna have 38 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: another episode later on where we spend a lot of 39 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: time going through all of the individual bills and the 40 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: stuff Trump has been saying about this. Because Jesus Christ 41 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: pretty pretty pretty grim stuff that they're I mean, on 42 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: the one hand, making making trains people out to be 43 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: the boogeyman who did not work in their favor greatly 44 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: in the midterms. But it seems like they're not trying 45 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: to They're not trying to change their their tactics here. 46 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: They are still going all in based on Trump's speech 47 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: from a few days ago of of of using the 48 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: using the transgender menace as the as the greatest threats 49 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: to America and the and the and the nuclear family. 50 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: So we'll see how that goes for them, like electorally, 51 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: but it's pretty bad rhetoric to see flying around. I 52 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: think they it does really well with the people who 53 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: who allowed and like like you often see this in 54 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: like primaries, right, like people pushed to the limits of 55 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: their party, because that plays well with the most politicized people. 56 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: And for sure, if you're going to a Trump rally 57 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: like three years after he got kicked out, yeah you 58 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: are also bigot. Yeah. But before we do that, I 59 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: I want to, before we actually really do a NEPs 60 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: on this, I want to take a look at the 61 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: sort of bureaucratic grounding for this entire thing. And to 62 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: do that we need to look at gender bureaucrats and 63 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: the American gender bureaucracy. So I'm going to cite my 64 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,119 Speaker 1: sources a bit and say that I stole this from 65 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: a incredibly unlikely source, which is the Bowist review of 66 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: Shrek to what wait stop, never speak those words again. 67 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: This is the Mallist review of Strek two. Is is 68 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: one of the three great sort of text of American maoism. 69 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: There's this one, there's Torgeable Attractive People's War the Florida Everglades, 70 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: and then there's that time the the RCP got into 71 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: a fight with the PSL. They're both trying to grab 72 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: each other's signs. Amazing, amazing stuff. But unfortunately, you know, 73 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: having having come up with the term gender bureaucrat, which 74 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: is incredibly useful their maoists, so that they're constitutionally and 75 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: politically just unable to understand what a bureaucrat is. So 76 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: I have now stolen this term and I'm using it 77 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: for other purposes. Reappropriate. No, it's stealing their mauists us. 78 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: It's never wrong to steal from maoists. Okay, fine, So 79 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: all right, it's getting back sort of more serious stuff 80 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: to understand what this is. I want to talk about 81 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: sort of the term assigned gender at birth. Um, this 82 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: used to be a like, I used to be fairly 83 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: common kind of in in in circles to like refer 84 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: to people as like a MAB or a FABS, like 85 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: a side mail at birth or assigned female at birth. 86 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: And it's a it kind of sucks as the term. 87 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: It's been replaced by other stuff. But I think there's 88 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: something important here, which is I want to go back 89 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: and look at the assigned part, and I want to 90 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: I want to look at the scifically the part about 91 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: the gender being assigned, because I think there's something that 92 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: gets lost in sort of popular discussions of this, which 93 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: is that when when people think about like the term 94 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: like the assignment of gender, right, they think about it 95 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: as something that's created socially. Right. They think about it 96 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: as you know, people being like pressured to perform one 97 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: kind of gender or another by the people around them, 98 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: sort of by their families, by just like people walking 99 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: down the street. And this is all true, but there's 100 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: also something else going on here. And that's something else 101 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: going on here is we need to ask ourselves when 102 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: we talk about someone's gender being assigned who is it 103 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: being assigned by? Because this is an actual specific person, right, 104 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: the person who actually assigns your gender is a doctor 105 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: or sometimes a nurse or a midwife. And this person 106 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: is the first gender bureaucrat. They're the first gender breacrat 107 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: because they are the person who sits down and puts 108 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: down what your gender is on a form. Now, Okay, 109 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: you may be asking yourself, right, Mia, why should anyone 110 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: care that your gender is now on a piece of paper? Well, 111 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: because it also maybe like they're they're also mainly, at 112 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: least now in like a like a medical scientific sense, 113 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: it's mainly like, oh, what parts do you have? Um, 114 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: and then using those parts as as a carryover for 115 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: gender as it's been modeled after ever since we stopped 116 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: dressing boys and girls and dresses and all the same clothing. Yeah, 117 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: and and well we'll get into sort of like how 118 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: this has sort of changed over time. But okay, so 119 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: to understand why this actually matters, I think what we 120 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: need to talk about what bureaucracy actually is, because this 121 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: is a thing that used to be fairly common talk 122 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: about on the left, and then people have stopped doing 123 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: over the past maybe like half decade. The anthropologist David 124 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: Graeber wrote extensively about bureaucracy throughout his career. Probably his 125 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: most famous book is one of his later worst, called 126 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: Bullshit Jobs. But I want to go back to an 127 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: earlier thing that he wrote, called The Utopia of Rules. 128 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna'm gonna I'm gonna read a little bit of 129 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: one of the first sections of it. Bureaucratic knowledge is 130 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: all about schematization. In practice, bureaucratic procedure invariably means ignoring 131 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: all the dutialties of real life existence and reducing everything 132 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: to preconceive mechanical or statistical formula. Whether it's a matter 133 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: of forms, rural statistics, or questionnaires, it is always a 134 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: matter of simplification. Typically, it's not very different from the 135 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: boss who walks into the kitchen to make an arbitrary 136 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: snap pocition as to what went wrong. In either case, 137 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: it is a matter of applying very simple, pre existing 138 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: templates to complex and often ambiguous situations. The result often 139 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: leaves those forced to deal with bureaucratic administration with the 140 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: impression that they are dealing with people who have, for 141 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: some arbitrary reason, decided to put on a set of 142 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: glasses that only allows them to see two percent of 143 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: what's in front of them. So, you know, we we 144 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: can see some of the the core aspects of bureaucracy here, right. 145 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: Bureaucracy inherently is an act of simplification. Um because of 146 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: sort of the tech like literally the technical systems of 147 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: what a bureaucracy is, and because of how it how 148 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: it stores information, how it moves information around, it can 149 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: only see the world in incredibly sort of simplified terms. Yeah, 150 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: it has to like abstract these things and make assumptions 151 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: based off those abstractions in order to have any type 152 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: of functionality. Yeah, so so great. Greb later says that 153 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: like this, you know, Okay, on the one hand, like 154 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: the sort of simplification and model making that goes on 155 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: into bureaucracy can be really really frustrating when you have 156 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: to interact with it. But on the other hand, you know, 157 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: so the reduction of the complex to the simple, it's 158 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: not just you know, a thing that's inherently evil in 159 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: its in and of itself. It's the basis of all 160 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: thoughts because you know, like we we we actually can't 161 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: and like in and our ourselves process the world by 162 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: immediately holding in our minds all of the information at 163 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: one time. Right, the way we understand the world is 164 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: simplfications and models. Yeah, and we we it's pattern recognition, 165 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: recreating recursive spot loops that give us the very concept 166 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: of meaning. And like that's how we know what words are. Yeah, 167 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: and so true. You know, you can you can, you 168 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: can look it's it's also possible to take a lot 169 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: of data and make sense out of it. And this 170 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: is this is this is a field called economics marketing. Yeah, 171 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, okay, so it's it's this is 172 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: also the basis of all social theory, right, Like, like 173 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: social theory is about taking a bunch of incredibly complicated 174 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: like in messy relationships and just statistical stuff and just 175 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: the noise of people doing doing things in everyday lives 176 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: and trying to establish sort of like ways of understanding them. 177 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: And you know, this in some sense is a kind 178 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: of violence, right, It's it's a violence of simplification. But 179 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: on the other hand, you know, the violence are during 180 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: to reality here bears more resemble to sort of like 181 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: Bacunian's creative destruction. Right, You're you know, you're imposing a 182 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: kind of violence on reality, you know, in in simplifying 183 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: and destroying a bunch of aspects of it so you 184 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: can understand just like one part of it at a time. 185 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: But you know this, this is a useful thing, right, 186 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: It's how we think, like we we literally couldn't do 187 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: anything without it. But as Graver puts it, the problem 188 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: of right the problems arise at the moment that violence 189 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: is no longer better oracle here, let me turn from 190 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: imaginary cops to real ones. Jim Cooper, a former l 191 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: A p D officer turned sociologist, has observed at the 192 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: overwhelming majority of those who end up getting beaten or 193 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: otherwise brutalized by police turned out to be innocent of 194 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: any crime. Cops don't beat up burglars, he writes. The reason, 195 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: he explained, is simple. The one thing most guaranteed to 196 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: provoke a violent reaction from police is a challenge to 197 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: their right to as he puts it, defined the situation. 198 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: That is to say, yeah, that that that perfectly describes 199 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: any any physical interaction with police like this is one 200 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: of the things I like about Greater because I mean, 201 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: this is this is something that I noticed and I 202 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: was in academia. Is it is very very easy to 203 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: tell who, like when you're reading a theorist social theorist 204 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: talking about stuff like who has been to your gas 205 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: before it? Who hasn't. Yeah, I'm always reminded when we 206 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: talk about like academics who have a real life of 207 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: that picture of Edwards said throwing stones. Yeah, most based 208 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: academic thing anyone his death and like graver, graver, I 209 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: think I think it's been ture gas on five continents 210 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: or something like that, Like he's gotten around, He's used 211 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: on a lot of stuff. Yeah, it is. It is 212 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: always nice whenever you can whenever these types of theorists 213 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: who like, you know, they often will philosophize about like 214 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: the nature of power, in the nature of the state, 215 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: and sometimes it can get a little bit wishy washy, 216 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: and it's nice when there's people who do that. Also, 217 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: you know, like the material like the material reality of 218 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: like power and how that yeah like how how how 219 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: like the how like the philosophy of power transfers over 220 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: to street politics is always always an interesting difference to 221 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: to compare compare various theory too. In I was teaching 222 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: a world history course and obviously it's remote because of 223 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: a pandemic. Right, Um, so, like we would just log 224 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: in in the morning and like fully aware that I 225 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: had seen and been tear gassed with some of my 226 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: students a night before. I've just discussed like how the 227 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: state has a monopoly on violence. People are gonna Yeah, 228 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: all the fucking lines up. It's like you've got a 229 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: massive bruise again. Yeah, it was. It was very instructive 230 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: and everyone should do it in their history classes. Yeah, okay, 231 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna keep reading from this quote because there's 232 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: a couple more things I want. I want to get 233 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: out of this. So okay, So you know he's talking 234 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: about how, like you, you get a violent reaction from 235 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: challenging their right to define the situation. That is to say, no, 236 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: this isn't a possible crime situation. This is a citizen 237 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: who pays your salary of walking his dog situation. So 238 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: shove off. Let alone the invariably disastrous. Wait, why are 239 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: you handcuffing that guy? He didn't do anything. It's talking 240 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: back above all that inspires beat downs and means challenging 241 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: whatever administrative rubric and orderly a disorderly crowd, a properly 242 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: or improperly registered vehicle has been applied by the officers 243 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: discretionary judgments. The police truncheon is precisely the point where 244 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: the state's bureaucratic imperative for imposing simple administrative schema and 245 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: it's monopoly on coercive force come together. It only makes 246 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: sense then that bureaucratic violence should consist first and foremost 247 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: on a tacks on those who insist on alternative schemas 248 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: or interpretations. At the same time, if one accepts John 249 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: Page's famous definition of mature intelligence is the ability to 250 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: coordinate between multiple perspectives or multiple or possible perspectives, one 251 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: can see here precisely how bureaucratic power, at the moment 252 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: it turns to violence, becomes literally a form of infantile stupidity. Yeah, 253 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: it's it is this weird, like childlike sense that is 254 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: a that is an interesting combination of thoughts. That's a 255 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: fantastic I love it. I like literally read reading this 256 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: book is like one of the things that really sort 257 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: of like committed me to anarchism because you know, like 258 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a book that actually takes violence seriously, 259 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: and while talking about bureaucracy with something that really doesn't. 260 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a good critique, and we kind 261 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: of have lost it over the years. I feel like 262 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: we've gotten into arguments about this sort of thing when 263 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: discussing the usefulness of like a Fuco's theories of power 264 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: and like and like how power functions. You've definitely brought 265 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: up this passage before talking about how the extent of 266 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: that is always is always measured by where the truncheon 267 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: is hitting on, like the actual street level. Yeah, but 268 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: you know, okay, Graber isn't writing about gender here really, right, 269 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: He's he's mostly writing about sort of direct police violence. 270 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: Although I mean it is worth noting that like all 271 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: of the stuff that he's writing is informed by sort 272 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: of like like by by actually specifically by by actual 273 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: critical race theory and by sort of like uh like 274 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: feminder standpoints theory stuff. Um, but you know, okay, if 275 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: if if you, if you, if you look back at 276 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: this right and you look back at sort of you know, 277 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: the point at which the state's bureaucratic impetue imperative for 278 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: imposing simple administrative ski seams and the monopoly and force 279 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: come together, or specifically the parts that are about right, Like, 280 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: the way you get a violent reaction is by being 281 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: something that being something that a bereacrat thinks you're not. Yeah, 282 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: that is it's challenging their their version of reality. It's 283 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: the challenge. It's challenging the validity of their perception of reality. Yeah. 284 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: And you know, and if you think about this about 285 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: five seconds, if you're a transperson, that's not good because someone, 286 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: a bureaucrat, has already assigned you a gender at birth 287 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: and if you're not that gender, things are going to 288 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: get really bad really quickly. Well, do you know what 289 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: bureaucracies are actually worthwhile and things that you should definitely 290 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: consider greatly is all of the breaucracies that support the 291 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: products and services that that fund this podcast. Well, I 292 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: hope you enjoy your your your your five new bars 293 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: of gold. Thank you for supporting the show. Um, we 294 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: are back. Uh, let's talk about gender and the bureaucracy 295 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: that seeks to contain it violence. So you know, if 296 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: if if you are, for example, intersects the point at 297 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: which the state's bureaucratic imperative for imposing simple administrative schema 298 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: and it's monopoly on course, if force comes together is 299 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: on the operating table of the hospital where you're born. Um, 300 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, first you a doctor assigns you a fucking gender, 301 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: which is never intersects by the way. The doctor just 302 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: decides whether you're male or female, and then you know, 303 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: puts that gender und your birth certificate. Um, it's technically 304 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: possible in some places to get it changed to intersect 305 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: later in life. But when I say it's technically possible, 306 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: I there might even more people who have done it. 307 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: The first person who we know ever change their gender 308 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: to intersect did it in So yeah, I'm sure there 309 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: were I mean, pre bureauqucy indigenous societies. I know that, yes, yeah, 310 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: but this is this is yeah, this is yeah. I 311 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: mean like yeah, like and and this is like the 312 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: way that like we treat intersext people also has gotten worse. 313 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: Like yeah, and we're gonna get into this, but it's 314 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: like it's like, you know, this is a very like 315 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: it's a very obvious thing where there's clearly more than 316 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: two genders. And how how society reacts to that, I 317 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: think says you know, A it's it's an enormous sort 318 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: of like it's something enormously impact intersect people, right, like 319 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: you know, you have like an incredible amount of violence 320 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: that has flicted onto them. And then secondly, the way 321 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: intersext people is dealt with, it's something that reveals a 322 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: lot about how this society is going to look at 323 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: gender and how society is going to look at the 324 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: enforcement of gender. I think on the point of how 325 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: it's in a lot of ways, the treatment of intertext 326 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: people has gotten has gotten worse in the past like 327 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: a few years. I feel like as the bureaucracy grows, 328 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: the amount of violence that is necessary to maintain it 329 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: also grows, and the bigger any any small thing threatens 330 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: the validity of the entire bureaucracy. So they have to 331 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: come down hard on anything that that is that is 332 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: like deviant from that because they need to maintain the 333 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: validity of the system that they have built. I think 334 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: that's definitely an aspect. And the other thing that's really 335 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: really bad is that, you know, we're going to talk 336 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: about bore this more a bit later, but like the 337 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: actual capacity of the bureaucracy to enforce this stuff has 338 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: increased so dramatically even in the last fifty years. It 339 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: is like like the the u S is a if 340 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: to someone to someone living in eight nine, right, the 341 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: modern US is an incomprehensibly bureaucratic society. It is like 342 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: like it may even like the even like the like 343 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, like like some people like yeah, like even 344 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: like the most sort of like totalitarian style and is 345 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: bureaucrat like looks at the u s and it's like, 346 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: what the funk guys, you guys are taking taking bureaucracy 347 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: too far? Like the surveillance capacities definitely would like you 348 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: would have loved that well, to to be to be fair, 349 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: to be fair, the East Germans did really well with 350 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: what they had, but I think it's really so. I 351 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: think also just in terms of how surveillance impacts the 352 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: way you're able to do gender when you're well and 353 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: when you're getting targeted advertisements for stuff based on your 354 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,959 Speaker 1: Internet searches, they're like that that that's one side of it, 355 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: and there's other sides of it in terms of like, 356 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: you know, people people seeking to make like different gender 357 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: presentations illegal, how the how how that type of surveillance 358 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: will eventually lead into pretty pretty druycon Ian well and 359 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: and I think I think in a lot of ways, 360 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: like the violence that has done to intersects kids is 361 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: sort of it's is one of the sort of origin 362 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: points of this. Right Um. I I do actually want 363 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: I want to sort of get into what what this 364 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: is a little bit um since the nice in sixties 365 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: and again that what I'm saying this like this stuff 366 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: is kind of recent, right um, doctors have started commonly 367 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: performing non consensual surgery and intersex kids to force them 368 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: to conform to a gender. Um, here's so much two 369 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: thousand and thirteen report from the United Nations Special Rapporteur 370 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: on Torture that's sited by Human Rights Watch. Children who 371 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: are born with atypical sex characteristics are often subject to 372 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: irreversible sex assignments, involuntary sterilization, involuntary genital normalization, surgery performed 373 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: without their informed consent or that of the parents in 374 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: an attempt quote, in an attempt to fix their sex, 375 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: leaving them with permanent, permanent, irreversible infertility and causing severe 376 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: mental suffering. And this is fucking horrible. It happens, it's 377 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: all the time, and on all of the people who 378 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: write these fucking laws that are like giving giving someone 379 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: gender affirming care is like mutilating them. Specifically carve out 380 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: sections so that doctors can keep sucking doing this intersex kids, 381 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: and it's horrible. It's really interesting how like, um, so 382 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: often the sports field is a terrain where they kind 383 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: of gets hashed out or like this brutality happens for 384 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: the first time, Like the sports governing authorities have been 385 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: fucking brutalizing intersect athletes for fifty years now, and every 386 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: time it's because yeah, they'll and they'll they'll put forth 387 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: an argument and then lose in court most of the 388 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: time because they'll they'll seek to advance like a very 389 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: narrow definition of gender based on chromosomeality or something or 390 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: testosterone levels or something, and then demonstrably this binary doesn't exist, right, 391 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: and then they'll lose, and they'll respond to losing by 392 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 1: fucking destroying that person. Yeah, it's there are plenty of 393 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: cases people can confined in history of that happening, and yeah, 394 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 1: it's sucked out. And I think the more I've been 395 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: thinking about this, the more I think that the sort 396 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: of like that a lot of what turfism is is 397 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: this kind of like it's it's attempting to take the 398 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: bureaucratic categories as literal truth but that doesn't work. It 399 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: doesn't It doesn't actually work on a sort of on 400 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: a scientific level or on a sort of more philosophical level, 401 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: because again, what what what what that sort of bureaucratic 402 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: assignment is is there is a radical simplification of reality 403 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: that destroys it destroys reality itself in order to create 404 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: a sort of like an m or and on a page. 405 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: And when you when you try to go back into 406 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: the real world that it doesn't work. It only works 407 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: when you can enforce it with violence. Test do be 408 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: loving to enforce gender with violence? Yeah? And you know, 409 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: I mean this is this entire thing is sort of 410 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: this this is the basis of the sort of of 411 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: the of the American gender bureaucracy. Right. It's inherently violent. 412 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: It's it's not just sort of a procedure for recording 413 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,239 Speaker 1: what your gender is. It is it always sort of 414 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: has been, and is increasingly more so now becoming a 415 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: system that imposes it imposes a gender on you. Um, 416 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: you know, and there's also a lot of ways that 417 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: this bureacracy you gets imposed on you that are you know, 418 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: less extreme. You know, if if if we go back 419 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: to the question of like, who are us signed a 420 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: gender for? Right? You're signed a gender for the state, 421 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: And you know, almost everything in your life depends on 422 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: these bureaucratic documents, because that's how the state understands you 423 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: as a person by by these bureacract documents, like specifically 424 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: birth certificates, like driver's licenses, social Security cards, and sports 425 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: ination papers. Yeah, I mean, like here here, here's the 426 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: American Bar Association talking about birth certificates. They are so 427 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: common that we might even overlook their significance. In the 428 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: United States, birth certificates serve as a proof of an 429 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: individual's age, citizenship status, and identity. They are necessary to 430 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: obtain social security, apply for a passport, in roll in schools, 431 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: get a driver's license, gain employment, or apply for other benefits. 432 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: Humanitarian Desmond too to describe the birth certificate as quote 433 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: a small paper, but it actually establishes who you are 434 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: and gives access to the rights and privileges and the 435 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: obligations of citizenship, you know, And I think that doesmen 436 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: too two as being enormously optimistic about sort of what 437 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: it means to be seen by the state here, because 438 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: the other thing that it does is it exposes you 439 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: to the state's violence in a way where you know 440 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: it now the state like this is this is the 441 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: mechanism with you which it now knows who you are, 442 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: so it is not having one like yeah, it's when 443 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: the soft sids try to not have birthtificates for their children, 444 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: gets real violent and this and this is the thing. 445 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: And one of one of the things hear about this 446 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: is that like, you know, okay, you used to be 447 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: able to, like get away with not having birth certificates, right, 448 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: like a lot of a lot of Americans used not 449 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: to used to like not. But one of one of 450 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: the things that happens over the course of World War 451 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: two is there's this enormous expansion in the state's bureaucratic capacity. 452 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: And there's an expansion the state's bureacratic capacity because it 453 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: has to you know, it has to go to war. 454 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: But simultaneously this and this is something that didn't have 455 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: to happen but did, is that you get the army 456 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: and you get employers starting to ask people's birthtificates. But 457 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: if people don't have them, because like I don't know, 458 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: I was, why why the fund do I need a 459 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: record of me being born? Right? Like this is this 460 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: this is only this is an every thing you need. 461 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: It's only a thing that's state needs. Yeah, it's interesting 462 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: to look at, Like I was thinking about how this 463 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: is also where the kind of front line of colonialism happens, 464 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: like the enforcement of a binary gender on indigenous people. 465 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: Like you can look at specific individuals um osh tissues. 466 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: One of them, they were a crow person in the 467 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: cronation who like for for the United States as a 468 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: scout what's what's called bad ay and then was like 469 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: in later life kind of forced to conform to a 470 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: binary gender with which they didn't identify and they hadn't 471 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: lived that way and because they had to, having being 472 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: assigned identity papers to live on a reservation, you have 473 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: to take one of the fucking boxes. Yeah, and you know, 474 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: and the thing about those sucking boxes, right is you know, 475 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: even like to this day, there are a lot of 476 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: states where you can't change your gender, like on on 477 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: you can't change what doesn't the card. You just can't. 478 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: And you know, if they've assigned you a gender that's 479 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: not your gender, then well tough luck. They have they 480 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 1: have an up, they have a monopoly and a legitimate 481 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 1: use of force. And you don't you know there's other 482 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: stage where you need a fucking court order saying that 483 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: you've had surgery in order to get the fucking you know, 484 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: in order to change your bureaucratic person. And again the 485 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: reason for this is and I kind of emphasize this enough, 486 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: fuck you. That is that. That is that, that is 487 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: the reason for this. Um, yeah, I want to I 488 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: want to go back also to you know, look to 489 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: to look a bit more about sort of bureaucratic effects. Um, 490 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna read from a n triple epiece about transguy 491 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: in the UK and the fifties. From the start, the 492 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: sensensialized press coverage or ferguson this transition focused on some 493 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,719 Speaker 1: surprisingly quote tition elements. Quote change of sex puts them 494 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: in a different employment category with a raisin salary, reported 495 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: one newspaper, underscoring the fact that being reclassified as male 496 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: in the eyes of his employer the British government tied 497 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: into a complex network of gendered economic and labor discrimination. 498 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: In fact, not only did his pay change, but his 499 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: whole job category changed, even though he was doing exactly 500 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: the same work under the same conditions. This was because 501 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: women workers were simply were not simply paid less, but 502 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: also kept in feminized job grades in the Civil Service, 503 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: despite the government's claims that service was a meritocracy. A question, 504 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: a question raised in Parliament by an MP who had 505 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: heard about Ferguson, demanded to know what form and number 506 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: of proofs other than a mirror announcement by the subject 507 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: they miss endered them a couple of times. All right, 508 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: it is required before a female quote like like civil Survey, 509 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: is permitted to obtain a higher salary in a different 510 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: employment category owing to a change in sex. By gaining 511 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: a quote official change, Jonathan Ferguson suddenly transformed himself, suddenly 512 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: suddenly transformed into chief Experimental Officer with a male breadwinner 513 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: salary large enough to support a family, rather than a 514 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: woman's lower wage that was expected to be supplements mental 515 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: to a family's earnings. For obvious reasons, noted the Treasury, 516 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: we should not have to say anything which would have 517 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: led to a request for the mail pay rate to 518 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: be applied from his data's entry to the Civil Service. 519 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: In other words, the Treasury wanted to ensure for that 520 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: Ferguson did not try to claim back wages in Turf 521 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: Island always been very normal, um, and there's I would 522 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: read a little bit more of this um. Conversely, a 523 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: different civil servant, this time a trans woman who was 524 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: working in the Admiral p Department and transitioning around the 525 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: same time, was advised it was in her quote interest 526 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: to delay official recognition of the change until at least 527 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: January nineteen sixty assuming full equal pay in the civil 528 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: services introduced by nineteen sixty one, Her employers wrote that 529 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: it was in her quote own interest in their opinion, 530 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: to continue wearing men's clothing for the time being in 531 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: order to avoid her significant reduction in pay. That's it's 532 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: funny because like I it's not funny. It's sucked up 533 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: and it's not stupid, isn't it. But uh, like I 534 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 1: knew trans people in Britain who would have grown up 535 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: around this time who like socially transitioned after retirement. Yeah, 536 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: or at least like openly to you know, we went 537 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: like BFF or anything. But it's absolutely fucking insane that 538 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: like that this argument was deployed. Yeah, and you know, 539 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: you can you can see what's sort of going on here, 540 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: which is that like, you know, it's more it's more 541 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: explicitly obvious and here that it is in a lot 542 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: of other cases. But your status in the gender bureaucracy 543 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: is a key element of how you're able to extract 544 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: resources from the state. And you know, sometimes that's literally 545 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: just an explicit pay gap, like it was based on 546 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: institutional sexism. But you know, I think I think the 547 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: second case in a lot of ways more revealing. Right, 548 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: the state and its gender bureaucracy is very explicitly saying 549 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: conform to what the jet the bureaucracy says your gender 550 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: is and you it'll you'll get paid more, and if 551 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: you don't, you'll get paid less. And if you look 552 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: at this more abstractly, right, in order to interface with 553 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: the state in order struct well for benefits, in order 554 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: to pay your fucking taxes, in order to drive, in 555 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: order to buy alcohol, apparently now in order to buy 556 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: the stupid cleaning bottles you of of compressed air but 557 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: you have to use to to clean out your computer keyboards. Uh, 558 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 1: in order to buy alcohol, in order to get on 559 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: an airplane, you have to conform to the state's bureaucratic 560 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: view of you. And if you don't, you can't do it. 561 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: And and you know this, this brings up the question 562 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: what right does the state have to assign my gender? 563 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: And you know, the state will spit out a variety 564 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: of sort of like pseudo medical and pseudo political explanations, 565 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: but the answer is that the state has no right 566 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: to tell you what your gender is except force. And 567 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, the the the extent to which the state 568 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: has actually been able to sort of do this kind 569 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: of stuff has changed over time. But we we've talked 570 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: about this a bit. But what like, you know, over 571 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: the course of sort of over the course of sort 572 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: of of the twentieth century, and you know, we can 573 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: also look at things like, uh, we can look at 574 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: the War on Terror, we can look at the liberalism 575 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: and David Graber's Iron Law of liberalism, which the Iron 576 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: law of liberalism states that any market reform, any government 577 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: initiative intended to reduce red tape and promote market forces, 578 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: will have the ultimate effect of increasing a total number 579 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: of regulations, the total amount of paperwork, and the total 580 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: number of bureaucrats, the government employees, which I always love. 581 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: But you know, like we we we've we've seen the 582 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: sort of consequences of this playing out over the course 583 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: of of you know, the last about a century. Right, 584 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: if you go back to the age nineties, it was 585 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: possible for basically private citizens to have just full on 586 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: wars with each other in parts of the US, and 587 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: that the government would just be like, sure, okay, whatever, 588 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: Like the people mining bird ship off of the coast 589 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: of California are shooting each other with cannons again, like whatever, Right, 590 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: Like it's it's not really until the twentieth century. And 591 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: really even in like the last fifty seventy years has 592 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: been a last expansion of this that like the state 593 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: actually has full territorial control over everywhere that it claims 594 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: to have control of. Right, we were like we we 595 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: are just now getting to a place where the police 596 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: can actually you know, like have like militarily hold the 597 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: entire country at one time. And even then they can 598 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: only do it as long as people sort of cooperate 599 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: with them. Um, but you know this, this is really 600 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: bad if you're a person who doesn't who who who 601 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: the bureaucracy has deemed to be something else or and 602 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: this is another you know, another sort of angle on this, right, Like, 603 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: if you're someone who does not have documentation, the state 604 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: very very quickly will just attempt to destroy you because 605 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, oh hey, you don't you don't know the 606 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: right papers. This means the government can fucking arrest you 607 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: and kick you out of the country. Yeah, and you 608 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: know this is fucking horrible. Um, there's a lot of stuff, Like, 609 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot of other angles you can look at 610 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: this from, right. I mean, like at some point we 611 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: probably will do an episode about like the process of 612 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: getting medical care and all of of people who you 613 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: have to convince that you are your gender. But yeah, 614 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: that that's another episode in tirely what I want to 615 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: get at here is that state bureacratic power is being 616 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: used by by just increasingly politicized gender bureaucrats not only 617 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: to force people to comply with their sort of state 618 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: mandated gender when they deal with the state, but also 619 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: to force them to inhabit that gender in their private lives, 620 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: which is constitutes nothing less than a form of full 621 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: scale genders hotel terrianism. Um. We talked about that fucking 622 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: Utah bill, which you know again prohibits miners from getting 623 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: gender affirming surgery people blockers are hormone treatment. That that 624 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: is a bill that forces people to live in their 625 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: state mandated gender In Florida, gender bureaucrats are allowed to 626 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: physically inspect athletes they suspect of being trans, which is 627 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: to say, not conforming to fucking state bureaucratic gender controls. 628 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: It's children, right, like, yeah, children, Like they are allowed 629 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: to molest your child because they think that because there 630 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: they think they're trans. The other aspect of this is, 631 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: obviously there is something we've talked about before that's something 632 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: that you're starting to see with these bills is they're 633 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: trying to make the bills UH age number go as 634 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: high as possible. Yes, there's bills for people, there's bills 635 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: proposing twenty five not so, it's trying to trying to 636 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: police and control the bodily autonomy of of complete adults, 637 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: which obviously is not not a new thing for the GOP, 638 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: specifically especially in the wake of the Roe v. Wade 639 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: overturning um. But another aspect of like this, this this 640 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: goes beyond just people who are younger than the age 641 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: of nineteen. This this this they're going to try to 642 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: keep raising this as much as as much as possible. 643 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: And this is where the types of surveillance that I 644 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: was talking about before it's gonna become a problem because 645 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: if you're if you're googling how to do d I 646 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: y h R T and get stuff shipped in from Brazil. Uh, 647 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: don't think that the surveillance stuff is not gonna not 648 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,399 Speaker 1: gonna impact your ability to do that. They had also 649 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: polices like the gender presentation of SIS people, specifically CIS woman. 650 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: I think like the people who are getting physically inspected 651 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: because of these laws are just girls who are good 652 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: at fucking sport. Like there's CIS girls that just they 653 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: might be like like taller or stronger or and like 654 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: it's some anyone has the power to just be like, 655 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: oh you're not you're not a girly enough girl. Uh 656 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: that's so fucking now you get to go to the 657 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: pervert room and get expected. You know, like in Texas. 658 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: Right the law right now is that if the state, 659 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: if the state thinks you're fucking child is not sufficiently 660 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: close to the gender, they can fucking take your child 661 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: from you and force them to be whatever fucking gender 662 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: the state wants them to be. Right, and you know, 663 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: any other period in history, if you walk into a 664 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: room and tell a bunch of people the state is 665 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: going to decide your fucking gender. Everyone would lose their 666 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: goddamn minds. This would be like this, This is a 667 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: this is a like unfathomable like even in sort of 668 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: like the depth of the sort of totalitarian like nightmarr 669 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: or states, this is like an unfathomable level of sort 670 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: of state bureaucratic like in position onto people's lives. And yeah, 671 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: you know it's the fucking us right, we have, we 672 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: have We are the most bureacratic society humanity has ever produced. 673 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: Nobody thinks that's the most bureacratic society has ever produced. 674 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: And you know we are right now every day seeing 675 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: the points at which bureaucracy meets violence. The last thing 676 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: I have to say is that you know, like this, this, 677 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: this is the future of gender. The future of gender 678 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 1: is government bureaucrats, whether they're cops, politicians, doctor's shop, protective service, 679 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: as a school board, administrators forcing you to be a 680 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 1: gendor that they're not. But fundamentally, they have no fucking 681 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: right to do this, right. What they have is power, 682 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: and their graspmant power is still right now tenuous. So 683 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: you know it is possible to stop them from going 684 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: any further than this. It is possible to beat back 685 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: the power of the state, and it is possible you 686 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: have a world that's not this. And we know it's 687 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: possible to have world is off this because it wasn't 688 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: like this like fifty years ago. So yeah, fuck him, 689 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: and that's that's. That's that that that's that's that's gender bureaucrats. 690 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: People should read David Gray. But learning about intersectionality for 691 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,919 Speaker 1: a fucking second. Another another another great resource to learn 692 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: about how you can like mix up gender stuff. There's 693 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: this new video game out right now which has a 694 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: pretty intense character creation selection you can It's called let 695 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: me See, It's called Hogwarts Legacy. Is that no I 696 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: thought you were going with side called but it has 697 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: it has It has a lot of different customizations that 698 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: you can do for your gender presentation and and and 699 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: your body parts. I've been refusing could do this on Twitter, 700 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: but I need, I need, I need to take fucking 701 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: one minute talk about the dumbest argument anyone has ever made, 702 00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: which is that I have to buy this game in 703 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: order support developers, which think about this five seconds, right, Okay, 704 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: if you have to buy this game to support the developers, 705 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: don't you have to buy every other game to support 706 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: their developers? In fact, are are you not morally obligated 707 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: to buy every single product on Earth? Because if you 708 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: don't buy every single product that's ever been made, you 709 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: those those will not be deployed. It's bullshit here. This 710 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: is such a weird like capitalism of a poison development 711 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: thinking you're obligated to consume lots of people on I 712 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 1: have been holding my tongue on Twitter about this from 713 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: monks now watching people watching people. Maybe the argument I 714 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: have to buy something to sport developers, which again buy 715 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: a different game, support those developers, buy fucking go on strike. 716 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: Fucking I don't know if you want, if you want 717 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: to want to support the develophy give you money to 718 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: someone who is in a fucking video game developer. Well 719 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad. Glad we could have that that 720 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: special bonding movement over the very inclusive gender settings inside 721 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: this new hit video game. So that's that's pretty cool. 722 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: I feel get an ad from them soon, but I hope, so, 723 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: I hope. So the worst Twitter day of my life 724 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: is the day we get the fucking ad gold presented 725 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: by Hogwarts. It could happen Here as a production of 726 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 727 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check 728 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 729 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 730 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: for It could happen here, updated monthly at cool zone 731 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.