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Speaker 4: All right, good morning, welcome to the Counterpoints.
Speaker 5: I'm Ryan Graelm here in the studio by myself here
Speaker 5: Awshinsky out on the road, a working journalist, but joining
Speaker 5: us for the show and nonetheless deeply appreciated Emily.
Speaker 4: How you doing great.
Speaker 6: I'm here at Scenic LaGuardia, and now I actually mean
Speaker 6: that because they did a nice job Withlaguardia when they
Speaker 6: did their COVID renovations.
Speaker 4: America has made great again.
Speaker 5: So what we learned over the last two days is
Speaker 5: that the next four years is going to be nothing
Speaker 5: if not exciting.
Speaker 4: That's for sure.
Speaker 5: From the left, it might be utterly terrifying. Some parts
Speaker 5: of it might be invigorating, but there's I don't know
Speaker 5: when this guy is going to slow down. Uh, maybe
Speaker 5: he's going to plow right through his first hundred days.
Speaker 5: When when is Trump going to get a round of
Speaker 5: golf in? The guy must be shaking at this point.
Speaker 6: You just had to go for the golf r and
Speaker 6: if anything, you should be wanting him to golf.
Speaker 5: Relax as the guy. The guys on an absolute role.
Speaker 5: We're going to talk about more of the executive orders
Speaker 5: that he's been rolling. And he had a kind of
Speaker 5: wild press conference last night. Not wild, it's it's a
Speaker 5: it was a Trump press conference, That's what it was.
Speaker 1: It's not we have to stop calling them wild.
Speaker 4: It's not wild.
Speaker 5: At this point, there's a ton of news on the
Speaker 5: immigration front, you know, announcement that raids are starting, uh,
Speaker 5: a kind of backdoor Muslim band getting kicked in, fights
Speaker 5: about h one b visus kicking up inside the White House.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 5: And then we've uh, then we've got a five hundred
Speaker 5: billion dollar investment announced in Texas towards AI, which has
Speaker 5: an interesting through line with the immigration conversation.
Speaker 4: We can talk more about that.
Speaker 5: The South is blanketed with snow wild. The scenes out
Speaker 5: of New Orleans are pretty incredible. Probably a decent number
Speaker 5: of the people watching the show are experiencing just an
Speaker 5: extraordinary weather event right now. I know down here in
Speaker 5: DC it feels like it's getting close to zero.
Speaker 4: Awfully chilly down here.
Speaker 5: We're going to talk more about the fallout from elon musks.
Speaker 5: What do they call it, awkward hand gesture? You know,
Speaker 5: whenever somebody is out there supporting the far right wing
Speaker 5: in Germany and puts his hands straight up in the air.
Speaker 4: Everybody thinks it's a sea kail. It's quite outrightous.
Speaker 5: We're going to talk about some of their response to that,
Speaker 5: and also we're going to give an update on the
Speaker 5: Israeli raid on Janine, as well as the kind of
Speaker 5: ongoing attempts to keep the thees fire in Gaza together, as
Speaker 5: well as the possibility of an actual future deal with
Speaker 5: Iran that we may go from Trump ripping up the
Speaker 5: Obama nuclear deal to Trump having his own Trump Nuclear Deal.
Speaker 5: So Emily, let's start with Donald Trump's press conference yesterday
Speaker 5: and we can pick up.
Speaker 4: Let's pick up with this.
Speaker 5: Question where he gets asked about the brewing debate within
Speaker 5: the MAGA coalition about H one B Visas and HB one.
Speaker 1: I know the program very well.
Speaker 7: I use the program matred ds wine. You know experts,
Speaker 7: even waiters, high quality waiters. You got to get the
Speaker 7: best people. Now, then you go into people like Larry
Speaker 7: and he needs engineers, and Massa needs and this gentleman
Speaker 7: needs engineers like nobody's ever needed engineers. Right.
Speaker 5: So, so this puts Trump in a situation where I
Speaker 5: don't think he's quite comfortable emily basically being the defender
Speaker 5: of migrant labor and siding with the big tech barons
Speaker 5: who are literally in the room with him there saying
Speaker 5: that they need this cheaper labor from overseas. On the
Speaker 5: kind of the magaside, the argument is, show us, you know,
Speaker 5: show us who these major d's are that are so
Speaker 5: good at maj d ing that you have to bring
Speaker 5: them over and you have to replace somebody who's here
Speaker 5: in the United States. You have to take the job
Speaker 5: away from them and give it to somebody who you
Speaker 5: brought who you use this process to bring in from overseas.
Speaker 4: And what they say is no, Actually.
Speaker 5: What you like is that you can pay that Major
Speaker 5: D one third to a half less than you pay
Speaker 5: the American worker, and the Major D is not going
Speaker 5: to complain about sexual harassment by the manager, not going
Speaker 5: to make demands about wages, not going to organize with
Speaker 5: other people in the workplace, not going to file any
Speaker 5: complaints because the second you do, mar A Lago owns
Speaker 5: that visa and can just yank it, and the Major
Speaker 5: D is back to where the Major D came from.
Speaker 5: That is the reason that employers like like these programs,
Speaker 5: not because they can't find the skilled workers.
Speaker 4: That's that's the counter argument. So what I'm.
Speaker 5: Hearing is that this is this is really erupting inside
Speaker 5: the White House now. But you have the kind of
Speaker 5: big tech what I heard Steve Bannon calling them brologarchs,
Speaker 5: which is which is pretty funny that the brologarchs seem
Speaker 5: to be winning this argument so far.
Speaker 6: What are you hearing, Well, you know it's funny you
Speaker 6: say the broligarchs line, and that Steve Bannon says it
Speaker 6: because I had a source who was at the Bitcoin
Speaker 6: Ball last Friday and said, Snoop Dogg's line of the
Speaker 6: night was quote where my lady's at, because they're just
Speaker 6: where many ladies at the Bitcoin ball. But I'm sure
Speaker 6: someone will dispute it and say I was I was
Speaker 6: a woman who was there, and I'm sure there were
Speaker 6: many lovely ladies there. But it was so funny that
Speaker 6: Snoop Dogg at least picked up on it. And the
Speaker 6: way that Donald Trump just described his personal use of
Speaker 6: hwin B visas, at least to the extent he remembers
Speaker 6: it is exactly why people like Steven Miller and Steve
Speaker 6: Bannon are deeply against h twin b Visas Sager explains
Speaker 6: this over and over again. Bernie Sanders has explained this
Speaker 6: over and over again, and Ryan, you just explained it
Speaker 6: over and over again, and there was paus.
Speaker 4: He probably uses H two B which he said HB one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but he probably uses two which is which is
Speaker 5: a category for service workers, which sometimes which sometimes you
Speaker 5: actually do need. Let's you're a you're in a town
Speaker 5: that has a resort, and they're just literally aren't the
Speaker 5: people in this rural area in order to work in
Speaker 5: this like this giant resort that you've got in the
Speaker 5: middle of nowhere.
Speaker 4: And then okay, then you bring in people anyway, go.
Speaker 6: Ahead, Well, no, I mean one of the things I
Speaker 6: heard though that was interesting is he's saying, I've heard
Speaker 6: from X, Y, and Z, and this is the danger
Speaker 6: of sort of surrounding yourself with a literal circle of oligarchs.
Speaker 6: As we're seeing right now, is that they're the ones
Speaker 6: who have your ear over Bannon and Steven Miller. Maybe
Speaker 6: you don't like Bannon and Steven Miller, but there's sort
Speaker 6: of populist sensibilities, and their mission is actually not to
Speaker 6: mine as much money from the US government as is
Speaker 6: human as possible. It's you know, they have real ideological ends.
Speaker 6: And so the way that Donald Trump was just laid
Speaker 6: that out is going to maybe Steve Bannon would see
Speaker 6: it this way. His optimistic taste take would be that
Speaker 6: it heightens the contradictions, right, that it gets the oligarchs
Speaker 6: out faster because the sort of rupture happens earlier in
Speaker 6: the administration. But who's going to win out in the
Speaker 6: battle over Elon Musk Larry Ellison and Steve Bannon and
Speaker 6: Stephen Miller.
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't know.
Speaker 6: How those guys are going to deal with with these deep,
Speaker 6: deep ideological disruptions. When Steve Bannon has been calling Elon
Speaker 6: Musk literally evil. He has been calling him evil for
Speaker 6: a matter of days.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 5: It feels weird to be rooting for Steve Bannon in
Speaker 5: a fight. But these are the the you know, these
Speaker 5: are the teams on the field. So I'm gonna pull
Speaker 5: for Bannon in this.
Speaker 6: One's a jersey that says Bannon on the back.
Speaker 5: He made a comment, he made a comment on his
Speaker 5: podcast last night that that I found stunning because of
Speaker 5: how much it resonated with me. And I didn't know
Speaker 5: that that's that this particular sentiment that I'll describe actually
Speaker 5: existed on the right. But tell me if I'm just
Speaker 5: ignorant of kind of you know, the broader kind of
Speaker 5: intellectual universe. There he said, And it was almost on aside,
Speaker 5: but he but he said it, and he and he
Speaker 5: made a point of it. He said, another reason I'm
Speaker 5: against this kind of H one B program is because
Speaker 5: it creates a brain drain in these other countries. He
Speaker 5: called it intellectual imperialism. That you know, we as he said,
Speaker 5: we as nationalists want all nations to have sovereignty, in
Speaker 5: all nations to.
Speaker 4: Thrive like we thrive.
Speaker 5: And I had not heard nationalists to act as sort
Speaker 5: of internationalists before. Like the way that I've always conceptualized
Speaker 5: a right wing nationalism is that it's a zero sum
Speaker 5: competition against these other countries, and that if we drain
Speaker 5: the you know, the best and the brightest from India,
Speaker 5: from Mexico, from Canada, wherever we pull them from, you know,
Speaker 5: too bad for them. We have a better country and
Speaker 5: we're doing better. But his phrase intellectual imperialism, I find
Speaker 5: to be completely accurate, and I respect it from the
Speaker 5: perspective of, you know, somebody who has covered a bunch
Speaker 5: of these other countries that have experienced like legitimate brain drains,
Speaker 5: it is it, and from somebody who is from a
Speaker 5: rural area that experiences brain brain drain. You know, you
Speaker 5: pull out all the people after they graduate high school
Speaker 5: or because there just aren't any jobs for them, it
Speaker 5: does actually, you know, change the culture of that place.
Speaker 5: And to hear somebody say that that matters was to
Speaker 5: me kind of surprising. Should I be surprised by that?
Speaker 5: Or is that kind of a is he out on
Speaker 5: a ledge there?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 6: I mean I think he's out on a ledge, But
Speaker 6: it's not a particularly surprising ledge for him, as you
Speaker 6: know and from my fellow red blooded Americans. When Ryan
Speaker 6: says internationalist, it's sort of in the Marxist or maybe
Speaker 6: you would.
Speaker 5: Say, yes, like all, we're all humans around the world, we.
Speaker 4: Should all we should all value each other.
Speaker 1: Well, we've we've seen the.
Speaker 6: Issues that can crop up with those domestic disparities as
Speaker 6: you just mentioned, like world brain drain, the tensions that
Speaker 6: they can create, culturally, the disparities they can create. But
Speaker 6: on an international scale, there's a serious question to be
Speaker 6: asked as to whether the United States is safer and
Speaker 6: more stable if it is plucking the highest or the
Speaker 6: most ambitious people from different parts of the world. Does
Speaker 6: that destabilize other regions? And that's probably I mean, I
Speaker 6: don't know, Bannon is really deep into like Marxist Leninism,
Speaker 6: whether or not he agrees with it in full. He
Speaker 6: actually is, like he's very familiar with Hegel. So it
Speaker 6: wouldn't be entirely surprising to me if he is starting
Speaker 6: to see this through that lens. He's mostly alone in
Speaker 6: that respect, his small slice, But I don't think it's
Speaker 6: entirely surprising. I don't hear that argument a lot but
Speaker 6: I think it's a serious one.
Speaker 5: Well, speaking of Steve Vanner, let's talk about the January
Speaker 5: sixth pardons that he announced, I guess what, two nights ago,
Speaker 5: and then has been responding to question through throughout the day.
Speaker 5: He was asked about it at his press conference. Let's
Speaker 5: roll some of that.
Speaker 8: You would agree that.
Speaker 9: It's never acceptable to assaulid police officer. Sure, so then
Speaker 9: if I can't among those who pardon DJ Rodriguez, he
Speaker 9: drove a stun gun into the neck of a DC
Speaker 9: police officer who was adopted by the mob that day.
Speaker 9: He later can passed on video to the FBI and
Speaker 9: pleaded guilty for his crimes.
Speaker 4: Why does he deserve a part? Well, I don't know.
Speaker 7: Is it imparton? Because we're looking at commute, so we're
Speaker 7: looking at portons. Okay, well we'll take a look at everything.
Speaker 7: But I can say this, murderers today are not even charged.
Speaker 7: You have murderers that aren't charged all over you. Take
Speaker 7: look at what's gone on in Philadelphia, take a look
Speaker 7: at what's gone off in LA where people murder people
Speaker 7: and they don't get charged. These people have already served
Speaker 7: years in prison, and they've served them viciously. It's a
Speaker 7: disgusting prison. It's been horrible, it's inhumane, it's been a terrible,
Speaker 7: terrible thing. I also say this, You go to Portland
Speaker 7: where they did where they wrapped police offices, shot police offices,
Speaker 7: nothing happened to anybody. You go to Seattle where they
Speaker 7: took over a big chunk of the city and people died. Portland,
Speaker 7: a lot of people died. And you go also take
Speaker 7: a look at Minneapolis, because I was there and I
Speaker 7: watched it. If I didn't bring in the National Guard,
Speaker 7: that city wouldn't even exist today. People were killed and
Speaker 7: nobody went to jail. So these people have already served
Speaker 7: a long period of time, and I made a decision
Speaker 7: to give a pardon. Joe Biden gave a pardon yesterday
Speaker 7: to a lot of criminals.
Speaker 5: So it's kind of wild to watch the Trump's ability
Speaker 5: to just be two things at once, Like, you know,
Speaker 5: he's this he's this tough on crime guy who's gonna,
Speaker 5: you know, talk about Philadelphia and talking about Portland every
Speaker 5: chance he gets, and then we're going to talk about
Speaker 5: ross Olverriche in a second. He'll you know, he's happy
Speaker 5: to talk about how drug dealers ought to be executed. Uh,
Speaker 5: and praise chairman she for his you know, the way
Speaker 5: that he cracks down on drug dealers and then the
Speaker 5: second and then he freezes ross at the in the
Speaker 5: next second or uh to be the greatest champion of
Speaker 5: the police and then to free somebody who you know,
Speaker 5: stuck a stun gun in a cops eye. How does
Speaker 5: how does he get away with this? Like, what's the
Speaker 5: what what is the trick that he's able to pull
Speaker 5: off here?
Speaker 6: Well, the obvious answer I think is, you know, the
Speaker 6: the level of corruption at the FBI. What has created
Speaker 6: the permission structure for him to feel like there's a
Speaker 6: real political license, if not, you know, demand for him
Speaker 6: to do what he did. And Washington really hates it.
Speaker 6: But the FBI in the cases of some January sixth years,
Speaker 6: I mean I was one of the first.
Speaker 1: People because I was covering January sixth, as I.
Speaker 6: Said many times, live on the West side of the Capitol,
Speaker 6: and I was one of the first Conservatives to come
Speaker 6: out and say this was not you know a lot
Speaker 6: of people were acting of their own volition, whether or
Speaker 6: not there were Feds in the crowd. This was a serious,
Speaker 6: you know riot by people who were really pissed off,
Speaker 6: and you know, conservatives Trump supporters who were really pissed off.
Speaker 6: And then the FBI wildly mistreated and abused the justice
Speaker 6: system in these just prosecutions of people who were beating cops,
Speaker 6: and so it created this ridiculous politicization of the situation
Speaker 6: and the same thing. I mean, I don't want to
Speaker 6: do a one to one with ross Albricht, but and
Speaker 6: the j sixers, but the FBI also wildly over prosecuted
Speaker 6: ross Albricht, who Trump obviously just pardoned, And so it
Speaker 6: makes it easier and Biden, obviously his pardons make it
Speaker 6: a lot easier for Donald Trump to feel like he
Speaker 6: can at least suppress or undermine the left's criticism of
Speaker 6: what he just did. So with a lot of voters,
Speaker 6: it just doesn't pack the punch that it did anymore
Speaker 6: because they don't necessarily buy the narrative that they're being
Speaker 6: fed by the media. It doesn't make it right, just
Speaker 6: makes it easier for Trump to do and.
Speaker 5: See and so when and when people say and when
Speaker 5: the people on the right say that the Justice Department
Speaker 5: abused the system and the prosecutions were abusive, and the
Speaker 5: conditions that were like Gulag conditions. You know, they're talking
Speaker 5: about the horrifying conditions that the people were kept under.
Speaker 5: I think what this shows is that they just weren't
Speaker 5: familiar with our justice system.
Speaker 1: Before this, And there's definitely true.
Speaker 5: And I like when conservatives go to prison, because they
Speaker 5: come out as criminal justice reformers, like almost almost universally,
Speaker 5: they go in and they go through this horrifically dehumanizing
Speaker 5: system that is for anything just six months or so,
Speaker 5: just a short stint and a medium security, but going
Speaker 5: through that dehumanizing process and experiencing that, they changes the
Speaker 5: way that you understand our quote unquote justice system, and
Speaker 5: you no longer laugh at people who want to.
Speaker 4: Who don't like using the term justice system, like you.
Speaker 5: No longer consider them to be like, you know, woke lunatics,
Speaker 5: but actually people who understand what's going on here. So
Speaker 5: I think that they are correct that the system was
Speaker 5: abusive and the conditions were horrible. What I don't think
Speaker 5: they're correct about is that it was any that they
Speaker 5: were treated any differently than anybody else that gets put
Speaker 5: through that system, except for you know, the point one
Speaker 5: percent when they when they wind up in there they
Speaker 5: get the kid glove treatment, but everyone else gets abused
Speaker 5: by our system. And I wish that they had come
Speaker 5: out of it with more of a universalist and I
Speaker 5: suspect some of them will the fact that somebody were
Speaker 5: segregated just among other j sex or I think will
Speaker 5: limit that capacity. But I wish that people would come
Speaker 5: out of it more a universalist kind of reform approach
Speaker 5: to the system than saying we were actually, you know, abused. Now,
Speaker 5: there could be cases where there were indeed actually like
Speaker 5: particular abuses And are.
Speaker 4: Is there anything you want.
Speaker 5: To add on that, any particular kind of abuses that
Speaker 5: were that gave the permission structure to be for the
Speaker 5: blanket pardon?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean there are a lot of examples, and
Speaker 6: they're hard to parse because some of them actually are
Speaker 6: kind of bs. And when you're getting into these like
Speaker 6: cop beating stories, it's easy that they end up getting
Speaker 6: conflated with the stories of people who were like, you know,
Speaker 6: not fed their vegetarian meals, or like Jacob Chansley is
Speaker 6: the really famous when he wasn't FEDI general vegetarian meals,
Speaker 6: they tried to hide the evidence of him being walked
Speaker 6: through the capital doesn't make any of it right. But
Speaker 6: there was this big conflation, and there were big like
Speaker 6: sentences that were just ridiculous, and there was like Enrique
Speaker 6: Tario is an interesting case. He was working, he was
Speaker 6: working as an FBI in format So all of that
Speaker 6: gets brought into the mix. And there are literally hundreds
Speaker 6: of these cases. There were raids on people's homes that
Speaker 6: seem insane. There were I mean, just crazy levels of
Speaker 6: intense prosecution and sometimes just sometimes very dubious. But I
Speaker 6: think to the point that you were making, Ryan, it's
Speaker 6: not entirely out of the sort of realm of plausibility
Speaker 6: for our justice system.
Speaker 1: But I think there was. I think we can all
Speaker 1: understand that there was a particular zeal for.
Speaker 6: Both just reasons like the capital was sacked, and politicized reasons.
Speaker 6: But to your point, you know, it doesn't mean that
Speaker 6: it's something other people don't experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which I think you couldn't separate, because it really
Speaker 5: was a political crime, like it just just by definition
Speaker 5: was so it was always going to be politicized. But
Speaker 5: let's control room, if you don't mind jumping to a five.
Speaker 5: Since we're talking about ross Son. Donald Trump announced that
Speaker 5: he's giving a pardon, full pardon to Ross Olbrich, which
Speaker 5: was the top demand of the Libertarian Party. And my
Speaker 5: old colleague KNK Clemstein made an interesting point. He's like,
Speaker 5: can you imagine the Democrats ever agreeing to any kind
Speaker 5: of demand made by the Green Party, Like you imagine
Speaker 5: like Democrats actually trying to get the votes of anybody
Speaker 5: other than like the Cheney family and their supporters. You know,
Speaker 5: if you were going to try to get the votes
Speaker 5: of the Green Party, you might say, look, we know
Speaker 5: that you have been trying to free Leonard Peltier from
Speaker 5: federal prison for decades.
Speaker 4: Now, like many decades.
Speaker 5: He's going to die in prison, probably at this point
Speaker 5: because Biden did not pardon him and just say we
Speaker 5: know this is important to the Green Party, and it
Speaker 5: was important to a lot of Native American groups.
Speaker 4: We win, We're gonna We're gonna pardon Leonard Peltier.
Speaker 5: It's like you cannot even like your brain breaks just
Speaker 5: trying to conceptualize the Democrats ever doing that.
Speaker 1: Didn't Biden pardon Leonard?
Speaker 4: No, No, I mean unless I unless I missed it,
Speaker 4: did it?
Speaker 5: If that came through in the last minute, that would
Speaker 5: be absolutely amazing, amazing, that's.
Speaker 4: So, that's amazing.
Speaker 5: But so can you imagine by doing that on day one,
Speaker 5: promising to do it.
Speaker 4: The day one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he commuted the sentence.
Speaker 4: Well great, so good commute, wonderful.
Speaker 5: But so if he's going to do it anyway, like,
Speaker 5: think about the way that Trump did it, which is
Speaker 5: so different than the way Democrats would ever do it.
Speaker 5: So Trump comes in and says.
Speaker 4: By the way, that's a that's such amazing news.
Speaker 5: Like in the nineteen nineties, I was making phone calls
Speaker 5: to Clinton White House asking them to commute his sentence
Speaker 5: or pardon him.
Speaker 6: I was going to say for viewers, like Brian has
Speaker 6: a ton going on right now. So I feel like
Speaker 6: it was kind of cool to see you watch that
Speaker 6: news in real time.
Speaker 1: It matters a lot.
Speaker 4: It's absolutely delightful.
Speaker 5: Like in two thousand, I went with a Green Party
Speaker 5: like caravan to the prison that he's in in Kansas
Speaker 5: and was part of like a candlelight vigil outside, like
Speaker 5: I'm so I'm so happy to hear that he's out.
Speaker 5: So setting that aside, think think about the way that
Speaker 5: Trump did it. Trump goes to the Libertarians transactionally says,
Speaker 5: aren't you tired of being losers, like support a winner
Speaker 5: and in exchange, I know you like Russ Olbridge and
Speaker 5: I will pardon him, like let's let's make a deal here.
Speaker 5: And then the Libertarian Party there was a you know,
Speaker 5: internal fight within the Libertarian Party. The faction that took
Speaker 5: it over wanted to make this the big thing that
Speaker 5: they asked for from Trump. They asked for it, they
Speaker 5: got it, and he and he does it now a
Speaker 5: side note, come on Libertarian Party, Like, good for Ross.
Speaker 5: I'm happy for him and his mother. The whole thing
Speaker 5: about him trying to kill people is kind of we
Speaker 5: can talk about that in a second. The fact that
Speaker 5: they went for him rather than Edward Snowden is curious,
Speaker 5: Like do you have any insight into why they did that?
Speaker 5: Because one of them is such a stronger kind of
Speaker 5: ideological case for libertarianism and for exposing government secrets, whereas
Speaker 5: Ross's an anrochocapitalist, like he's a hardcore libertarian identifies as one.
Speaker 5: He acted as a liberty anyway, Like why him over Snowden?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think Snowden is too much of a
Speaker 1: popular figure.
Speaker 6: It would rankle way too many establishment Republicans it would
Speaker 6: just be harder for Trump to get done without creating
Speaker 6: a firestorm.
Speaker 1: That ends up with negotiations over other things.
Speaker 6: Right, Like, I just don't think most establishment Republicans care
Speaker 6: that much. He's been in jail since what his arrest
Speaker 6: in twenty thirteen. He was charged. I think he was
Speaker 6: finally sentenced in twenty fifteen. So he's been in prison
Speaker 6: for a really long time. And the Internet has changed
Speaker 6: dramatically during that time, and a lot of people would
Speaker 6: argue dramatically for the worst.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that Silk Road is great.
Speaker 6: I feel a lot like Sager who posted on XT
Speaker 6: basically like, I'm not a big fan of Silk Road,
Speaker 6: but what you if you read about what happened to
Speaker 6: Russ Olbrich, it's one of the craziest things. It's not
Speaker 6: entirely surprising, again, but it's a it's an insane story.
Speaker 6: I think it was just less of a sort of
Speaker 6: explosive decision, you like, you know, if you pardon Snowed
Speaker 6: and that just goes off like a bomb.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's trying to get through.
Speaker 4: Yeah makes sense. But yeah, so Peltier pardoned.
Speaker 5: He's eighty and he will it's pardoned to home confinement,
Speaker 5: not pardoned, He's commuted to home confinement.
Speaker 4: So there he's he's an old man.
Speaker 5: He'sn't been held in you know, very difficult federal prison
Speaker 5: conditions for many decades, which is going to take a
Speaker 5: toll on you. Uh So, at least I guess he'll
Speaker 5: get to die at home anyway. Uh So. Uh So,
Speaker 5: what's been the reaction on the right to the Ross pardon?
Speaker 6: You know, Libertarians are obviously really pleased, but I think
Speaker 6: it just goes to what we were talking about a
Speaker 6: moment ago, which Republicans don't really care that much. You know,
Speaker 6: I've seen, i think the Free press published like dueling
Speaker 6: pieces on why it was good and why it was bad,
Speaker 6: when the why it was bad is from Charles Van
Speaker 6: Lehman at the Manhattan Institute. But they're just it didn't
Speaker 6: ruffle many feathers. Again, I think it's a lot of
Speaker 6: people just see it as sort of old news, and
Speaker 6: the Internet has kind of moved on during that time period,
Speaker 6: so it's not a scalp that people feel they need
Speaker 6: to cling to. So probably a very successful decision for Trump,
Speaker 6: sort of vindicating for mccardal and those folks in that
Speaker 6: wing of the Libertarian Party.
Speaker 5: And for people who don't know, we should have mentioned
Speaker 5: it off the top. He was the founder of the
Speaker 5: CEO of Silk Road, which was a place where you
Speaker 5: could buy and sell stuff. And you know, the main
Speaker 5: thing that people were buying and selling on there was
Speaker 5: or a main thing was drugs. They and they basically
Speaker 5: got him for that, some complicit city in that accused
Speaker 5: him of basically being a kingpin. Later after he was
Speaker 5: convicted of that, they put forward some evidence that he
Speaker 5: had tried to take out contracts to kill people that
Speaker 5: apparently did not exist, like.
Speaker 1: Somebody seemed like an entrapman.
Speaker 6: He claims that his supporters claim the FBI doctor emails
Speaker 6: right to make it look like.
Speaker 4: His supporters say none of those. His supporters say this
Speaker 4: is fake.
Speaker 1: He was never charged, which was just it probably didn't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, now they they argue on the other side, Uh,
Speaker 5: well we didn't charge Hi because he already had a
Speaker 5: life sentence, So what was the point. Also, there was
Speaker 5: so much corruption, like extra levels of corruption and his prosecution,
Speaker 5: like several of the like lead investigators were like caught
Speaker 5: like stealing bitcoin and drugs and like it. It was
Speaker 5: an absolutely gigantic mess, so they probably didn't want to
Speaker 5: kind of go back into that and kind of you know,
Speaker 5: peel back the layers of that onion and find.
Speaker 6: Well, the judge said, this life sentence, which again he
Speaker 6: was not convicted of any violent crime, was all nonviolent.
Speaker 6: He wasn't convicted of selling any of the drugs himself,
Speaker 6: It was just facilitating their sale. A life sentence for
Speaker 6: that is sort of mind boggling, So that that excuse
Speaker 6: for them not charging him with the alleged murder of
Speaker 6: a higher plot doesn't really pass the smell test.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and there were no people like so even even
Speaker 5: if you take the allegations completely at face value, they
Speaker 5: say that somebody was making up people that didn't exist
Speaker 5: that were harassing him and then extorting him to go
Speaker 5: and like kill those people that like, which is kind
Speaker 5: of bizarre and liked lends some credence to the claim
Speaker 5: that this that that that whole thing was made up.
Speaker 5: But yet, like, there are a lot of illegal substances
Speaker 5: and illegal things bought and sold on eBay and Amazon
Speaker 5: and and using lots of other platforms, and we haven't
Speaker 5: yet you know, arrested Jeff Bezos. So yeah, you can
Speaker 5: you can see why people feel like this is this
Speaker 5: was treated differently, although Silk is not exactly Amazon, although
Speaker 5: Amazon has become like this absolute cesspool of scams.
Speaker 1: It's rough.
Speaker 5: Like when we when we were doing the push to
Speaker 5: get people to buy Ray fat Olarreer's book If I
Speaker 5: Must Die, we ended up selling I think pushing like
Speaker 5: twenty thousand copies in a matter of a week, and
Speaker 5: the internet or somebody you know, picked up on that
Speaker 5: and started making fake versions of it. So within days
Speaker 5: Amazon was selling like fake copies of this book of
Speaker 5: poems and pros. And I heard from some people who
Speaker 5: who accidentally bought it, and it just shows up.
Speaker 4: It's like nothing, just totally.
Speaker 5: It's like and Bezos and and Lena kana is like,
Speaker 5: you know, looked very closely at this, like they could
Speaker 5: do something about this that they're not doing, you know,
Speaker 5: but it works for them, like they're making money out
Speaker 5: they're making money both ways.
Speaker 4: And speaking of scams, if we.
Speaker 5: Can go jump to a four, let's roll this from
Speaker 5: maybe you can explain some of this to me.
Speaker 4: But here's Trump and his meme coin benefited.
Speaker 10: I don't know where it is.
Speaker 7: I don't know much about it other than I launched it.
Speaker 7: I heard it was very successful.
Speaker 4: I haven't checked it.
Speaker 7: Where is it today?
Speaker 1: I may die a lot of money?
Speaker 4: How much.
Speaker 1: Several billion dollars, it seems like in the last several days.
Speaker 7: Several billion. That's peanuts for these guys.
Speaker 4: So Trump made a meme coin.
Speaker 5: And wound up making several billion dollars since getting elected president.
Speaker 5: Is that what I'm supposed to understand here?
Speaker 6: Yes, that is exactly what you're supposed to understand here,
Speaker 6: That he's at a joking behind the podium.
Speaker 1: That's peanuts for these guys.
Speaker 6: As he's surrounded by Larry Allison and Sam Altman at
Speaker 6: this one, you know, like you said, we tried to
Speaker 6: say it was wild. At the top of it was very
Speaker 6: much like vintage first Trump administration, very similar. He was
Speaker 6: really going back and forth with these journalists, like mixing
Speaker 6: it up with them for a long time, letting everybody
Speaker 6: ask as many questions as they wanted to, essentially, which
Speaker 6: has not happened over the course of the last several years.
Speaker 6: Binding Kamala Harris rarely ever mixed up with the press,
Speaker 6: let alone for this long. So it was a winding
Speaker 6: press conference and Yep, the meme coin came up, and
Speaker 6: it looks like that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Ryan and Trump is enjoying that.
Speaker 6: And for context, Brian and I are both on the
Speaker 6: crypto is a Ponzi scheme, So you can kind of
Speaker 6: see where we're coming from.
Speaker 1: I'd find it all to be rather gross.
Speaker 5: Yes, is that the incoming presence or the president is
Speaker 5: going to run a run, run a Pyramids game?
Speaker 4: Anyway? What? What on earth? I mean, where do we
Speaker 4: Where do you even go with that?
Speaker 1: I think we go to Ukraine?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is next?
Speaker 5: Uh yeah, So this was a quite poignant moment of
Speaker 5: the press conference where he's talking about Ukraine. Le let's
Speaker 5: roll him talking here about the extraordinary human toll.
Speaker 7: Vladimir Putin doesn't come to the table to negotiate with you.
Speaker 11: Will you put additional sanctions on Russia?
Speaker 1: It sounds likely. Do you think that the war should
Speaker 1: be frozen currently? Along?
Speaker 7: The war should have never started if you had a
Speaker 7: competent president, which you did, and the war wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 7: The war in Ukraine would have never happened if I
Speaker 7: were president. But that couldn't happen because the election was rigged.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, thanks, President, could.
Speaker 7: Be very soon.
Speaker 2: And you've talked a bit about Ukraine and Russia, but
Speaker 2: how long.
Speaker 8: Would you think it would take to end that conflict?
Speaker 7: And I have to speak to President Putin. We're going
Speaker 7: to have to find out. He can't be thrilled. He's
Speaker 7: not doing so well. I mean, he's grinding it out.
Speaker 7: But most people thought that war would have been over
Speaker 7: in about one week, and now you're into three years, right,
Speaker 7: So he can't be he can't be thrilled. It's not
Speaker 7: making him look very good. Now eventually, you know, I
Speaker 7: mean it's a big machine, so things will happen. But
Speaker 7: I think it'd be very well off to end the war.
Speaker 7: We have numbers that almost a million Russian soldiers have
Speaker 7: been killed, about seven hundred thousand Ukrainian soldiers are killed.
Speaker 7: Russia is bigger, they have more soldiers to lose, but
Speaker 7: that's no way to run a country.
Speaker 5: Presumably Trump is speaking there from the briefings that he's
Speaker 5: getting from our military, because those are bigger numbers than
Speaker 5: we're used to hearing from public officials.
Speaker 4: You know, nearly a million.
Speaker 5: Russians, what's six seven hundred thousand Ukrainians is an absolutely
Speaker 5: mind boggling and staggering death toll, like since twenty twenty two,
Speaker 5: thinking of nearly two million families, you.
Speaker 4: Know, who.
Speaker 5: Had a son or a father or brother in twenty
Speaker 5: twenty two and do not today because of this war,
Speaker 5: And you ask yourself for what, like, what what has
Speaker 5: been accomplished in the three years since then that would
Speaker 5: remotely justify the sacrifice of nearly nearly two million lives?
Speaker 4: Emily, what did you make of that? You know, I
Speaker 4: came from Trump.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's we've seen, you know, those hundreds and hundreds
Speaker 6: of thousands of numbers sneak into some press re folds.
Speaker 6: I think the Wall Street Journal had something like that,
Speaker 6: and it just we just gloss right over it in
Speaker 6: the political news cycle of we don't do that here,
Speaker 6: but most people just gloss right over it as though
Speaker 6: this isn't happening, that this isn't something that we have
Speaker 6: funded over and over again and seem to have no
Speaker 6: legitimate plan to end. And that's what Trump That's where
Speaker 6: Trump seemed to rankle some people who have previously been
Speaker 6: hopeful about his anti interventionist streak. They heard him speaking
Speaker 6: in a way that felt hawkish about Putin last night,
Speaker 6: But I also wanted to say, Ryan, I think people
Speaker 6: read a little bit too much into all of Trump's
Speaker 6: different point A, B C. D in his negotiations, because
Speaker 6: he'll say one thing, the next minute says something totally different,
Speaker 6: and it's him trying to like set the terms of
Speaker 6: the debate. And so obviously right now, behind closed doors,
Speaker 6: he feels like he needs to talk tough to Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 6: I don't know that that necessarily means hees all of
Speaker 6: a sudden, you know, on Zelenski's side, one hundred and
Speaker 6: ten percent, like going full Lindsey Graham. Hopefully, Ryan, what
Speaker 6: it means is that we're getting closer to an end
Speaker 6: of the conflict, because when you hear those numbers, apparently
Speaker 6: from his security briefings, it's no wonder they're having to
Speaker 6: yank men in.
Speaker 1: Their forties off the streets in Ukraine to.
Speaker 6: Fight this war because it's a death trap and it's
Speaker 6: miserable and there's been no end in sight, absolutely no
Speaker 6: end in sight.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is and this is very Trump like. He
Speaker 5: says the most belligerent thing he can. Yeah, I'm going
Speaker 5: to sanction Putin whatever you can come up with. And
Speaker 5: then he talks later about it, you know, being positioning
Speaker 5: for his his negotiation. We'll talk about John Bolton later,
Speaker 5: but even when it came to John Bolton, you know,
Speaker 5: he's the way he describes his hiring of John Bolton,
Speaker 5: his yes, he was an idiot and a warmonger, but
Speaker 5: I used him very well. And what Trump claims, now,
Speaker 5: whether this is ret conning or actual strategy, from the beginning,
Speaker 5: he claims that he brings in people like Bolton to
Speaker 5: be his his his yap dogs who are going to
Speaker 5: make a whole lot of noise. And then he's like,
Speaker 5: you know, you don't want me to let this guy
Speaker 5: off the leash, do you, And then hopefully then he
Speaker 5: gets a better deal from Iran, Like that's that's his claim.
Speaker 5: Whether it's particularly true in the Bolton case or not,
Speaker 5: that is generally kind of how he operates. And the
Speaker 5: and the problem with being so transparent about it is,
Speaker 5: you know you and I aren't the only ones that
Speaker 5: see it. It stops working, I would I would assume
Speaker 5: if you know, everybody can see it, and then in
Speaker 5: order for it to keep working, you have to ratchet
Speaker 5: it up higher and higher. And higher, and every time
Speaker 5: you do that, you're playing with a little bit of fire.
Speaker 4: But you know, we'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's sort of the thing.
Speaker 6: It's just very, very unpredictable, and I genuinely don't know
Speaker 6: how Trump behind closed doors is talking to bo Zolenski
Speaker 6: and putin how he's talking to other NATO countries.
Speaker 1: We'll hear more in the days ahead.
Speaker 6: Obviously we're literally like forty eight hours into this administration,
Speaker 6: less than that. At this point, Marco Rubio has been
Speaker 6: sworn in as Secretary of State, So I think we're
Speaker 6: going to start seeing a lot more that I'll tell
Speaker 6: us directionally what's to come in the days and weeks ahead,
Speaker 6: like in the next forty eight hours probably, Yeah.
Speaker 5: And was it interesting that Trump had to issue an
Speaker 5: executive order telling Marco Rubio not to be a crazy warmonger,
Speaker 5: Like there's an actual executive order that says instructions to
Speaker 5: the Secretary of State to make sure that you have
Speaker 5: in America first foreign policy agenda. That's kind of a
Speaker 5: did everybody got one of those or just Marco Rubio
Speaker 5: that was a little.
Speaker 6: He should give them everybody That would actually be just
Speaker 6: like his as almost like a Valentine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, to everyone. I don't know.
Speaker 6: I've never seen anyse people like that before, but I
Speaker 6: think they're more similar than they are different, to be honest,
Speaker 6: and I know that's not great for the non interventionists,
Speaker 6: but it's almost like Rubio's meant Trump in the middle.
Speaker 6: He has had some people who dismissed the sincerity of
Speaker 6: his changes ideologically are missing out on the real picture.
Speaker 6: That doesn't mean that he suddenly like Rand Paul, but
Speaker 6: it means that he is genuinely like meeting Trump kind
Speaker 6: of in the middle on a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 5: All right, Well, let's move on to the looming immigration
Speaker 5: rays around the country.
Speaker 4: Trump borders are.
Speaker 5: Tom Homan was on Fox News talking about some of
Speaker 5: this last night.
Speaker 4: Let's roll some of this.
Speaker 5: Based on your initial schedule that today roundups of criminal
Speaker 5: illegal aliens in the process of deporting them would begin.
Speaker 10: It seems to have been put on whole for a
Speaker 10: little while. When can we expect that to happen?
Speaker 4: Where will it begin?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: It started? Did I started?
Speaker 12: Ice teams are out there as of today. We gave
Speaker 12: them the in direction to prioritize public safety threats that
Speaker 12: we're looking for that. We've been working on the target list.
Speaker 12: There was some discussion about Chicago because a Pacific operational
Speaker 12: plan was released, so we had to look at and
Speaker 12: re evaluate does this raise after safety concerns? And it does,
Speaker 12: but we read dressed that and teams are all effective today.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so at dropsite, we had some people in
Speaker 5: Chicago and they they and there was they spoke to
Speaker 5: some undocumented folks who did actually said they had some
Speaker 5: encounters with ICE agents and they told them they were
Speaker 5: undocumented and ICE agents let them go.
Speaker 4: They were kind of.
Speaker 5: Going around parking lots basically looking for people who look
Speaker 5: like day laborers and just asking them for papers. There's
Speaker 5: a lot of confusion going around and we can actually
Speaker 5: put up B two.
Speaker 4: This is a good example.
Speaker 5: This is in it's you know, Chicago, like every city
Speaker 5: has a you know, a news outlet focused on the
Speaker 5: restaurants and the reporting there. It's that a lot of
Speaker 5: people are not showing up for work. There's a lot
Speaker 5: of skittishness. There's there's a lot of concern that that
Speaker 5: the raids are going to hit hit say kitchens, and
Speaker 5: drag everybody out. What Homan is saying there is that
Speaker 5: announcing it as Trump did that he's going to hit
Speaker 5: Chicago on Tuesday, you know, created that kind of panic
Speaker 5: and and may have then caused some officer safety issues.
Speaker 5: So I suppose what he's but on the one hand,
Speaker 5: I'm curious for your take on this. On the one hand,
Speaker 5: only they want, I believe, they want spectacular images of
Speaker 5: confrontations between We're not just confrontations, but they want they
Speaker 5: want images of booted up ice agents, you know, dragging
Speaker 5: migrants into the back of paddy wagons.
Speaker 4: They want those images on Fox News.
Speaker 5: In order to get those images, they've got to get
Speaker 5: the media out there, and they've got to announce ahead
Speaker 5: of time where they're going to do these raids. Announcing
Speaker 5: where they're going to do these raids ahead of time
Speaker 5: causes the problems that Holman laid out there.
Speaker 4: So the question view is, am I right?
Speaker 5: Does he just want spectacular images or is there is
Speaker 5: there a deeper kind of policy being rolled out here.
Speaker 6: I think there's something deeper because they again we were
Speaker 6: talking earlier in the show about Steve Bannon and Steven Miller,
Speaker 6: who we use kind of as representatives of this broader
Speaker 6: anti immigration coalition that is now in the administration and
Speaker 6: is powerful. They feel like they have a mandate to
Speaker 6: do a generational immigration crackdown. So I don't think it's
Speaker 6: just about the optics, and I don't think that you're
Speaker 6: necessarily saying that, right, But I think they also genuinely
Speaker 6: know they need those numbers in order to achieve.
Speaker 1: Their goal, and they feel it right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're talking.
Speaker 6: People in conservative circles, there's you know, like a absolute
Speaker 6: appetite for images that the media would have previously sort
Speaker 6: of weaponized genuinely like heart wrenching stuff. But like they're saying,
Speaker 6: we don't feel like I mean, the New York Times
Speaker 6: ran that story on Sunday that said public support for
Speaker 6: Trump's policies exceeds support for Trump, and one of those
Speaker 6: things was deportations. And it's possible that people overreach. So
Speaker 6: there's an announcement that people overreach and take that as
Speaker 6: a you know, a mandate when it was just a
Speaker 6: mandate to like make significant changes. But I don't know, Ryan, Like,
Speaker 6: I think they're pretty pretty serious about actually expelling a
Speaker 6: wide group of people. I don't think it'll have a
Speaker 6: huge effect on public opinion in the same way that
Speaker 6: it did back in like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, during
Speaker 6: the false kids in Cages narrative that said, you know,
Speaker 6: this was implied at least that this was a new
Speaker 6: Donald Trump policy and that it hadn't been happening under
Speaker 6: Obama and blah blah blah. I think conservatives just now
Speaker 6: feel bullish because they feel like they have disrupted that
Speaker 6: kind of legacy media narrative setting ability, and they're kind
Speaker 6: of ready for what they would see as like a
Speaker 6: generational crackdown.
Speaker 1: So it's I think it's totally serious.
Speaker 5: Well, the difference in defense of the hysterics around the
Speaker 5: kids in cages, and I covered Obama's kids in cages
Speaker 5: in twenty fourteen fifteen. Those were unaccompanied minors who were
Speaker 5: being held in bad conditions and that was exposed, and
Speaker 5: it was good that that was exposed, and it was
Speaker 5: wrong what Obama was doing, and he was doing it
Speaker 5: for the reasons doing an immigration crackdown. What the Trump
Speaker 5: administration did was a deliberate zero tolerance policy directed at
Speaker 5: families who were with children, and they said, if the
Speaker 5: family member is charged with illegal or entry or something
Speaker 5: else along those lines, they will separate the children from
Speaker 5: the parents, and they will and they will detain the
Speaker 5: children separately. And so that was an actual new policy,
Speaker 5: and when it was rolled out, it was rolled out
Speaker 5: specifically with the intent of creating images that would dissuade
Speaker 5: people from coming across the border. That's one of Miller's
Speaker 5: big ideas, that you need these images to scare people
Speaker 5: from coming in. So it was true that there had
Speaker 5: been kids in cages, but it was also a new
Speaker 5: policy related to child separation.
Speaker 1: Well, and yes, child separation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and Tom Homan, though actually comes out of the
Speaker 6: Obama administration, like the Obama Deporter and chief Line, Tom
Speaker 6: Homan was a part of that policy, although the Deporter
Speaker 6: in chief line didn't get much play outside of places
Speaker 6: like a huff Post on Huffington Post at the time,
Speaker 6: And so I think there was a lot of really
Speaker 6: dishonest coverage from places like Yeah, CBS, NBC, CNN who
Speaker 6: had not seen the previous policies as turrence or anything
Speaker 6: like that. So we don't have to get back into
Speaker 6: that debate necessarily.
Speaker 4: But I think to.
Speaker 5: Your point earlier about whether or not there will be
Speaker 5: a public outcry, I don't think there's going to be
Speaker 5: a kind of resistance liberal kind of outcry over the
Speaker 5: principle of it, but how he rolls it out may
Speaker 5: have an effect. If people keep if restaurants are shutting down,
Speaker 5: for instance, like like, as that article in Chicago suggested,
Speaker 5: there's some nervousness around what's going to happen there, and sorry,
Speaker 5: you control them to jump around. But if we could
Speaker 5: do befour here about the about the farm workers that
Speaker 5: this is this is relevant to this, whether or not
Speaker 5: this survey is accurate or not. Directionally, it seems powerfully
Speaker 5: in one direction, which is, you know, fine, if seventy
Speaker 5: five percent of says seventy five percent of immigrant farm
Speaker 5: workers didn't show up yesterday in Bakersfield because of fears
Speaker 5: of ice raids, America's rural and agricultural regions will be
Speaker 5: the hardest hit from Trump's immigration policies.
Speaker 4: Food prices are going to skyrock.
Speaker 5: So that's that's the kind of claim that you're going
Speaker 5: to get from from critics of this policy, that you
Speaker 5: actually need these people showing up for work to do
Speaker 5: the jobs that they're doing at work, and if they don't,
Speaker 5: you know, the food, food rots, and the vine restaurants
Speaker 5: don't open you know, all the all the obvious knock
Speaker 5: on effects that you'd have from you know, what they
Speaker 5: would call a labor shock, a shock to the labor
Speaker 5: supply all of a sudden, people. If people aren't showing
Speaker 5: up because they're nervous, now, people aren't going to stay
Speaker 5: home forever because they can't.
Speaker 4: They need they need to work.
Speaker 5: So it really depends on to me, you know, how
Speaker 5: this filters down to people and what the actual scale
Speaker 5: of it is is, is there any nervousness in Republican
Speaker 5: circles that they might create something that they can't control.
Speaker 6: No, And I've never actually, I mean I shouldn't say
Speaker 6: I've never seen anything like this, but it's a totally
Speaker 6: they feel like again it's a new age, like Trump
Speaker 6: has been saying the Golden era, Golden Age line, But
Speaker 6: that is more than just like this sort of this
Speaker 6: attempt at esthetic optimism. It's actually because they feel like
Speaker 6: there's a it is totally a new day, meaning they
Speaker 6: can be aggressive about policies they feel like they have
Speaker 6: a mandate on and not cower and do sort of
Speaker 6: Gang of Eight style immigration politics like they were forced
Speaker 6: to in you know, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: So I think they're actually eager for.
Speaker 6: The crackdowns because it'll create and I don't mean this callously.
Speaker 6: I think this is you know, there's a substance of
Speaker 6: conversation about this, but it creates on the.
Speaker 1: LIB moments right where people like.
Speaker 6: That before tweet that we had up on the screen
Speaker 6: about farm workers. I just think they realize that lands
Speaker 6: differently with the public.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 6: Doesn't mean that it's a substance of debate to be
Speaker 6: had about that, but I think they're like eager for
Speaker 6: this fight because they feel like immigration is a winning
Speaker 6: one in the same way that Democrats are eager to
Speaker 6: talk about abortion because they know that Republicans are on
Speaker 6: their back feet and it's a losing The more Republicans
Speaker 6: are talking about abortion, the worse off they are.
Speaker 1: And I think.
Speaker 6: Republicans say the more Democrats talk about abortion, the more
Speaker 6: the public is going to agree with Republicans because Democrats
Speaker 6: haven't moderated enough on it. So I think they're eager
Speaker 6: for the fight to be honest, and I you know,
Speaker 6: as I was saying earlier, I think that could create
Speaker 6: a real overreach. I don't know if it will, but
Speaker 6: I definitely think it could.
Speaker 4: You mean an immigration or abortion.
Speaker 6: No, it's immigration. It could end up with some like
Speaker 6: really bad overreaches.
Speaker 4: I see what you mean.
Speaker 5: Let's let's talk briefly about Trump announcing that he's in
Speaker 5: an executive order that he's ending birthrights citizenship, which I
Speaker 5: think as a news broadcastering correct me if you think
Speaker 5: I'm wrong, I should add immediately, you can't actually amend
Speaker 5: the Constitution with an executive orders.
Speaker 6: Just like Joe Biden declaring the equal rights of men, right,
Speaker 6: like Michael Scott declared bankruptcy.
Speaker 4: Yeah right, yeah, so right.
Speaker 5: Biden on his way out the door posted on Twitter
Speaker 5: at the twenty fifth Amendment was now ratified and the
Speaker 5: twenty fifth amn was this the Equal Rights Amendment and
Speaker 5: it needed to get you know, I had to get
Speaker 5: three quarters of the states, and Virginia ratified it after
Speaker 5: Democrats took over the state, and boom, that made three
Speaker 5: quarters of the states. But in the law that was
Speaker 5: passed to create the process to amend the Constitution and
Speaker 5: add the twenty fifth Amendment, it said you had to
Speaker 5: do it within a certain number of years, and it
Speaker 5: was very clean. Amendment twenty fifth is the one for
Speaker 5: crazy people like me who can't remember which the which
Speaker 5: amendments to twenty eighth Amendment the era, and they didn't
Speaker 5: reach the timeline. They missed it by I think several decades,
Speaker 5: and Biden just announced Okay, now, so apparently what Biden
Speaker 5: should have done is just said, by executive order, I
Speaker 5: have added the twenty eighth Amendment to the Constitution. Because
Speaker 5: that's basically what Trump is doing here. He's telling you,
Speaker 5: don't worry about what the Constitution says, don't worry about
Speaker 5: what Congress says either, Yeah, executive order. So the argument
Speaker 5: that he's making is that the fourteenth Amendment says that
Speaker 5: anybody born here and quote you know, subject to the
Speaker 5: laws thereof is a citizen. And his argument is that
Speaker 5: people who are here, whose parents are here without papers
Speaker 5: or without the right kind of papers. He's saying even
Speaker 5: if you're here on he's saying, if you're here on
Speaker 5: a student visa, that you are not subject to.
Speaker 4: The laws of the United States.
Speaker 5: That's just wrong, Like that's not even an interesting kind
Speaker 5: of legal argument to hash out. Like anybody who was
Speaker 5: watching this show who is here on a student visa,
Speaker 5: go ahead and try to rob a bank and find
Speaker 5: out whether or not you're subject to the laws of
Speaker 5: this country. Like people here on a student visa, people
Speaker 5: here completely illegally can be charged with crimes and in
Speaker 5: fact are charged with crimes when they're when they're arrested
Speaker 5: for them. So the idea that you're not subject to
Speaker 5: the laws only applies and this is and this is
Speaker 5: what they meant. It applies to diplomats. If you are
Speaker 5: an ambassador from Uruguay and you were here in Washington, DC,
Speaker 5: you are not actually subject to the laws of the
Speaker 5: United States. And it's it's controversial thing because you'll and
Speaker 5: sometimes you'll have some drunk ambassador. We'll run somebody over
Speaker 5: and kill them and go home, and that's it. Like
Speaker 5: they don't get charged with that because they have diplomatic
Speaker 5: community and what you've seeing le at the weapon knows
Speaker 5: how that works, or princes diaries or Princess diarist and
Speaker 5: so therefore their children are then not American citizens.
Speaker 4: Like that's that's the argument there.
Speaker 6: I actually think the Biden parallel is a really good
Speaker 6: one in this case, because what they were both saying
Speaker 6: is I'm using my executive authority to say this is
Speaker 6: now the official executive branch recognition of this legal interpretation
Speaker 6: of the Constitution. You know, I interpret the Constitution as
Speaker 6: President Joe Biden or President Ronald Trump. To say that
Speaker 6: for the birthright citizenship is you know, it wasn't actually
Speaker 6: intended to be interpreted the way it has been interpreted.
Speaker 6: And you can amend the Constitution even beyond the ratification deadline.
Speaker 6: It can be extended. It doesn't matter these states have
Speaker 6: rescinded the ratification. So, I mean, this is becoming a
Speaker 6: theme of the early Trump administration, and it's not entirely surprising,
Speaker 6: but eos like this are clearly overreached. That would have
Speaker 6: infuriated the conservative movement in the Republican Party under Obama
Speaker 6: because Obama did like governing with his pen, and his
Speaker 6: pen has pad and that was one of the biggest
Speaker 6: conservative arguments against Barack Obama. And in fairness, Trump is
Speaker 6: undoing some previous executive injections, but this is not one
Speaker 6: of them, and they're not they are not all like that,
Speaker 6: and this to me is very extra constitutional. But Ryan
Speaker 6: it is an attempt to move the goalposts in a
Speaker 6: way that sets the terms and sets the tone for
Speaker 6: the administration. They do see this as a generational immigration
Speaker 6: opportunity and if you.
Speaker 4: Can put up B three here.
Speaker 5: So twenty two Blue states have already sued the federal
Speaker 5: government saying that no, hey, actually this is ridiculous, this
Speaker 5: is this is not how the Constitution is written. So
Speaker 5: we will we'll see, you know, the constitution is in
Speaker 5: our current system. What the Supreme Court says it is
Speaker 5: not not what it actually is. So this remains to
Speaker 5: be determined. And and speaking of fighting out the constitutionality
Speaker 5: of executive orders, there's a new kind of attempt at
Speaker 5: a Muslim ban, and this was we can put up
Speaker 5: B five here. So this is the way that the
Speaker 5: Trump administration is kind of back during the Muslim ban
Speaker 5: is that they're saying, Okay, we're not going to do
Speaker 5: what we did the first time around, which is basically
Speaker 5: single out these Muslim countries. What we're going to do
Speaker 5: is give the bureaucrats thirty to ninety days to look
Speaker 5: at all of the countries around the world and then
Speaker 5: report back to us about the countries that they believe
Speaker 5: are particularly dangerous based on this objective set of criteria,
Speaker 5: and then some are all of the travelers from those
Speaker 5: countries will be banned.
Speaker 4: And the assumption and it seemed to be the driving motivation.
Speaker 5: Tell me what if you agree, Emily, is that the
Speaker 5: bureaucrats are basically being instructed to come back with a
Speaker 5: list of Muslim countries, which they then believe will qualify
Speaker 5: as some sort of objective enough process that it won't
Speaker 5: look arbitrary and racist and will be allowed to pass muster.
Speaker 6: Is that right, Emily, I mean, it's a clever workaround
Speaker 6: as far as they go. That's the difference between Trump
Speaker 6: one point zero and Trump two point zero is you
Speaker 6: have four years of and I say this seriously.
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 6: I don't think Donald Trump is like he doesn't have
Speaker 6: the book in front of him. But there that's a
Speaker 6: stand in sort of for the broader plans that were
Speaker 6: made in the conservative movement.
Speaker 1: And that's that's what's happening.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's you know, when you have four
Speaker 6: years to go back and say, if we come in
Speaker 6: with a mandate, here's what we're we're going to do.
Speaker 6: It's almost like historically unusual that they said we have
Speaker 6: this guy in Donald Trump who's actually going to do what.
Speaker 6: In some cases we didn't feel Ronald Reagan did George W.
Speaker 6: Bush certainly certainly didn't. But even though Donald Trump isn't
Speaker 6: of the conservative movement, he's someone who can be used
Speaker 6: to advance.
Speaker 1: The cause of the conservative.
Speaker 6: Movement because he's that like Nixonian madman.
Speaker 1: He's against the deep state.
Speaker 6: He wants to drain the swamp and he doesn't care
Speaker 6: and he sort of broke in politics in the paradigm
Speaker 6: and he can be the vehicle for.
Speaker 1: Like radical change.
Speaker 6: And that's you know, so far in the first couple
Speaker 6: of days, we're seeing all of this get tested.
Speaker 4: Moving over the artificial intelligence news.
Speaker 5: Yesterday at the White House, the main theme coming out
Speaker 5: of the first couple of days of the Trump administration
Speaker 5: is this immigration crackdown. But interestingly, he also held an
Speaker 5: event with some with some brolog arcs announcing a five
Speaker 5: hundred billion dollars worth of an investment into a Texas
Speaker 5: data center to power AI. Let's let's roll a little
Speaker 5: bit of sam Altman from the White House to.
Speaker 13: Create one hundreds of thousands of jobs, to create a
Speaker 13: new industry centered here. We wouldn't be able to do
Speaker 13: this without you, mister President, and I'm thrilled that we
Speaker 13: get to.
Speaker 1: I think it'll be an exciting project. I think we'll be.
Speaker 13: Able to do all of the wonderful things these guys
Speaker 13: talked about, but the fact that we get to do
Speaker 13: this in the United States is I think wonderful.
Speaker 4: So thank you very much.
Speaker 10: First, let me talk to you Sam about what this
Speaker 10: means for AI and the future for the US investment.
Speaker 7: Here.
Speaker 14: This means we can create AI and AGI in the
Speaker 14: United States. In America wouldn't have been obvious that this
Speaker 14: was possible, but I think that the different president might
Speaker 14: not have been possible. But we are thrilled to get
Speaker 14: to do this, and I think it'll be great for Americans,
Speaker 14: great for the whole world.
Speaker 4: Tim, So this has been in the work. We can
Speaker 4: put up a two here. This has been the works
Speaker 4: for almost a year so at this point. But what
Speaker 4: you saw at the White House was.
Speaker 5: These CEOs kind of slabbering over Trump and making sure
Speaker 5: that he felt like he was getting the credit for this,
Speaker 5: for this rolling out.
Speaker 4: And it is the case that the.
Speaker 5: Trump administration is going to be extraordinarily friendly towards AI.
Speaker 5: I think that's not even in doubt. We can put
Speaker 5: up C three here. You know, one of the executive
Speaker 5: orders that Trump rolled out was called, you know, unleashing
Speaker 5: American energy, and he basically declared that the United States
Speaker 5: was in an energy crisis.
Speaker 4: The previous energy.
Speaker 5: Crisis that y'all would remember from the nineteen seventies was
Speaker 5: a crisis so supply. It was when the OPEC countries,
Speaker 5: you know, cracked down on supply of oil, people had
Speaker 5: to ration it. They created this American energy crisis. This
Speaker 5: one is described by Trump in his executive order as
Speaker 5: a crisis of demand. And the reason he says that
Speaker 5: it's a crisis of demand is, on the one hand,
Speaker 5: all of the kind of electricity needs that have been
Speaker 5: produced by the Biden administrations, you know mandate so, you know,
Speaker 5: around climate change. So he nods to that, But importantly,
Speaker 5: he says that the AI data centers are going to
Speaker 5: need just absolutely explosive amounts of American energy, and so
Speaker 5: that has created a crisis, and so he's going to
Speaker 5: sweep away a lot of regulations in order to drive
Speaker 5: down the crisis so that you can have these five
Speaker 5: hundred billion dollar data centers. And what I found kind
Speaker 5: of interesting about the timing here is that on the
Speaker 5: one hand, Trump is talking about an immigration crackdown, which
Speaker 5: from the populist right perspective is aimed at protecting American workers.
Speaker 5: With the other hand, he's doing everything he can to
Speaker 5: boost AI, which many American workers see as in direct
Speaker 5: competition with them, as aimed at creating a tech feudalism
Speaker 5: that is going to basically impoverish huge sectors of the
Speaker 5: American workforce.
Speaker 4: Emily, what did you make.
Speaker 1: No wonder this roll out? I was gonna say, it's
Speaker 1: no wonder.
Speaker 6: He's listening to what Larry Ellison tells him on H
Speaker 6: one B visus when he's working as we talked about
Speaker 6: earlier in the show, on this five hundred billion dollars investment.
Speaker 1: And Ryan, you know this.
Speaker 6: We often see public private partnerships like this touted at
Speaker 6: big ceremonies and then jobs don't materialize. One of the
Speaker 6: most notable recent examples of this actually comes from the
Speaker 6: first Trump administration in my home state of Wisconsin with
Speaker 6: Fox Con that never panned out to be anywhere near
Speaker 6: what it was promised in southeastern Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: And you'll remember they were out.
Speaker 6: There with the shovels, right, it's previous Donald Trump, Paul Ryan,
Speaker 6: you know they were shoveling the dirt to break ground
Speaker 6: and so these things are not always done deals. You know,
Speaker 6: that's that can change pretty significantly, and it can always
Speaker 6: underwhelm people. It could always end up underwhelming people. But
Speaker 6: I think the sentiment, I mean, if you went to
Speaker 6: and you probably remember this too, Seapac in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 6: all of these companies, Google and Facebook had fancy events
Speaker 6: and they had you know, suites that were had the
Speaker 6: nicest champagne and you know, amazing food, and conservatives in
Speaker 6: the first Trump administration looked back on that as a
Speaker 6: world really gross thing. Like the conservative movement felt badly
Speaker 6: about itself because all of those they felt, all of
Speaker 6: those oligarchs turned on their cultural values and detested them
Speaker 6: and looked down on them.
Speaker 1: And this is I'm curious.
Speaker 6: I think it's it's pretty clearly ushering in a new era,
Speaker 6: and it's beckoning the conservative movement to open back the doors.
Speaker 6: I mean, I remember I used to go to all
Speaker 6: of these meetings with conservative news and Facebook.
Speaker 1: Like Nick Clegg and a Facebook.
Speaker 6: Conference room saying, you know, here's how you know we
Speaker 6: didn't suppress this. We didn't suppress that. Tell me what
Speaker 6: your concerns are. And you know, it seems like that's.
Speaker 1: Just back like it was, like it never went away.
Speaker 6: And it isn't to say that some like the religious
Speaker 6: skepticism towards AI in conservative spaces is so generative AI,
Speaker 6: I should say, is so profound that I don't think
Speaker 6: it's clear yet how this is going to pan out.
Speaker 6: But if if history I passed this prologue, and it
Speaker 6: usually is, it looks like that moment is just going
Speaker 6: to fade away like it never happened.
Speaker 5: Basically, yeah, it does feel like we as a public
Speaker 5: have kind of lost control of this situation here in
Speaker 5: the United States and that the only thing that the
Speaker 5: arks need to do is to kind of lavish, like
Speaker 5: you said, you know, money at the right places, but
Speaker 5: also then praise and in this case on Trump Larry
Speaker 5: Allison of Oracle who along with soft Bank, which is
Speaker 5: interesting from an America first perspective, like this is.
Speaker 6: From an Elon Musk perspective. Musk isn't Musk in an
Speaker 6: antitrust suit against Sam Altman?
Speaker 4: Oh yes, big time.
Speaker 5: Yes, they're they're at war with each other. And also
Speaker 5: soft Bank foreign that's that's a foreign investment fund. But
Speaker 5: here's here's Larry Allison of Oracle doing the same as
Speaker 5: Altman kind of lavishing Trump with praise.
Speaker 4: This is C five.
Speaker 10: Once we gene sequence, Once we gene sequence that cancer tumor,
Speaker 10: you can then vaccinate the person, design a vaccine for
Speaker 10: every individual person to vaccinate them against that cancer. And
Speaker 10: you can make that vaccine, that mr NA vaccine. You
Speaker 10: can make that robot again using AI in about forty
Speaker 10: eight hours. So imagine early cancer detection, the development of
Speaker 10: a cancer vaccine for the for your particular cancer aimed
Speaker 10: at you, and have have that vaccine available in forty
Speaker 10: eight hours. This is the promise of AI and the
Speaker 10: promise of the future.
Speaker 5: Ooh, sorry that that was a different clip that I expected,
Speaker 5: But that's fine because that's actually kind of an even
Speaker 5: more important one, which is this is this is what
Speaker 5: the kind of AI gurus are using to sell the
Speaker 5: idea of AI as as utterly virtuous and making the
Speaker 5: world a better place. And of course, if they proved
Speaker 5: to be correct and they they could actually do that, wonderful.
Speaker 5: We all we'd all love to have a vaccine that
Speaker 5: prevents us from getting cancer, cancers, the absolute worst.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure he was reading the room right there by.
Speaker 5: Bringing up mr NA vaccines inside the Trump White House.
Speaker 4: What did you make of that?
Speaker 1: Or maybe he was because this is the White House.
Speaker 6: This is the continuation of the first White House that
Speaker 6: spearheaded the Yeah, the pioneering mRNA vaccine is vaccine through
Speaker 6: Operation warp Speed, which was itself a public private partnership,
Speaker 6: if you can really even call it that, to be honest,
Speaker 6: it was just all melded together. So if anything like
Speaker 6: Mary maybe Larry Ellison is singing from the exact right
Speaker 6: him book. No, I mean, obviously, I think it does
Speaker 6: highlight the the what seemed to be ideological barriers between
Speaker 6: again the Steve Bannons, the ideological populists and the libertarian
Speaker 6: I should say, the the quote unquote America First populists
Speaker 6: and the libertarian populist, the tech populists and the sort
Speaker 6: of middle American populists that now form Trump's coalition. It's
Speaker 6: a really uncomfortable marriage. And so far it's sticking together.
Speaker 6: But when you put all of these billionaires so deeply
Speaker 6: into your own coalition, your own inner circle, just the
Speaker 6: feuding between Musk and Altman, I mean, they all have
Speaker 6: a lot on the line, like their futures, their freedom,
Speaker 6: their businesses that's all on the line relationship with Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: So they have intense scrutiny, or they have intense, you know,
Speaker 6: incentives to get along with each other and to continue
Speaker 6: getting along.
Speaker 1: With Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: But right it is so fragile among them, and then
Speaker 6: among the broader public, unbelievably fragile.
Speaker 5: And this, of course is a global competition which China
Speaker 5: is participating in, and not coincidentally, on Monday, on Inauguration Day,
Speaker 5: the Chinese company deep Seek, which is a competitor of
Speaker 5: open ai, published a peer reviewed paper that announced that
Speaker 5: effectively they had been able to produce this AI application
Speaker 5: that uses much less energy and is much more efficient,
Speaker 5: and is wide open and and could be decentralized. And
Speaker 5: so for people that are just listening to this, this
Speaker 5: is just one tweet from a guy pointing out the irony.
Speaker 5: He says, quote, we are living in a timeline where
Speaker 5: a non US company is keeping the original mission of
Speaker 5: open ai alive, truly open frontier research that empowers all.
Speaker 4: It makes no sense.
Speaker 5: The most entertaining outcome is the most likely unquote. In
Speaker 5: other words, open ai was started as a as a
Speaker 5: nonprofit intended to be open Obviously as open is right
Speaker 5: there in the name and decentralized and aimed at making
Speaker 5: the world a better place. It has since been legally
Speaker 5: dubiously converted to a for profit company. That's what Musk's
Speaker 5: fight with Altman is about. Musk wanted to keep it
Speaker 5: as a nonprofit, and they are going for a centralized
Speaker 5: approach where they are going to spend at least five
Speaker 5: hundred billion dollars, you know, on the on on these
Speaker 5: data centers, and with the idea being that they are
Speaker 5: going to just build so much computing power that nobody's
Speaker 5: going to be able to keep up with them, Whereas
Speaker 5: the Chinese are taking the original open AI version and
Speaker 5: saying we're going to everything's going to be open. It's
Speaker 5: going to be as cheap as possible's gonna use as
Speaker 5: little electricity as as possible, and it's going to be available,
Speaker 5: you know, to basically anybody who wants to use it
Speaker 5: for a very nominal fee. And that decentralized approach is
Speaker 5: going to be what allows it to get to get everywhere.
Speaker 5: So we'll see who's able to win at that, but it,
Speaker 5: you know, at least from the from China, from the
Speaker 5: Chinese perspective, they're not. It's interesting they're not having their
Speaker 5: policy dictated by oligarchs like we are the We are
Speaker 5: the democracy where you know, we have elections, local elections,
Speaker 5: we have midterms, we got presidential elections. I have a
Speaker 5: voter registration card.
Speaker 4: I can go down to my elementary school and I
Speaker 4: can cast a ballot.
Speaker 5: Yet our AI policy is not made by me as
Speaker 5: a voter. Our AI policy is made by Sam Altman
Speaker 5: and our oligarchs. In China, nobody there can vote. Yet
Speaker 5: the the Chinese public seems to have much more say
Speaker 5: over what their AI policy is than we do here.
Speaker 5: How do we explain that and how do we understand
Speaker 5: democracy if we're less democratic? I mean in the sense
Speaker 5: that we have control over our government.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know that I agree with that, but
Speaker 6: I do think we lose a lot of our credibility.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's just more of.
Speaker 6: The marriage between It's almost like you can't call Chinese
Speaker 6: business people oligarchs because the distinction between public and private
Speaker 6: just doesn't really exist. And I think things like this,
Speaker 6: especially when they're not successful and when they're cronius, which
Speaker 6: is you know, that's what Mark Andresen is trying to
Speaker 6: say the Biden administration did with AI by the way
Speaker 6: that they said it was so dangerous. We need to
Speaker 6: just let the big guys do it, and they need
Speaker 6: to listen to us. And I think Sam Altman seems
Speaker 6: to have said, all right, well, that's the policy that
Speaker 6: we Then we can you know, basically stamp out any competition.
Speaker 6: We can do the best big guy, and we can
Speaker 6: you know, try to mold the government to our preference.
Speaker 6: We'll give Donald Trump money for his inauguration. We will
Speaker 6: be there, we will say nice things, and I bet
Speaker 6: it'll give us what we want, especially if it makes
Speaker 6: it look like this is America first, bringing lots of
Speaker 6: investments in, so you know that they're playing Donald Trump
Speaker 6: and they're playing the system. They're playing the game in
Speaker 6: the way that they have for a really long time.
Speaker 6: But the point about voter control over AI is really
Speaker 6: interesting because that is the I think probably one of
Speaker 6: the clearest examples that and probably some of our defense
Speaker 6: policy of like the actual definition of oligarchy, which I
Speaker 6: used to blanch at and you know, criticize Bernie Sanders
Speaker 6: for using in the United States, But that's oligarchy that's
Speaker 6: literally what it is.
Speaker 1: It's when people have so much money.
Speaker 6: That they can circumvent democratic control and change people's daily
Speaker 6: lives with the flip of a switch. And that's what's
Speaker 6: happening in AI. So no doubt about that. I totally agree.
Speaker 5: Let's move over to a weather update, and I feel
Speaker 5: like we're going to be increasingly covering the weather over
Speaker 5: here at counterpoints and breaking points as it gets more
Speaker 5: more and more just extreme. If you live in the
Speaker 5: South right now, you're getting absolutely walloped in Florida, they're
Speaker 5: seeing something they almost never see. Let's roll a one here,
Speaker 5: which also covers some of the other.
Speaker 4: So this, yeah, here's like when was the last time.
Speaker 5: Anybody in Florida has experienced like this level of snowfall?
Speaker 5: You know, you'll you'll sometimes get get a few flakes
Speaker 5: here and there all across the Gulf Gulf of America.
Speaker 4: If if Donald Trump prefers, you go across the Gulf.
Speaker 5: Of America over to New Orleans, you're seeing just absolutely
Speaker 5: extraordinary amounts of snow. I mean that, I don't I
Speaker 5: don't think that thing's designed to be doing that, but
Speaker 5: looks actually kind of fun. So I think I would
Speaker 5: love to hear from people who were down there. I
Speaker 5: think this would be one of the segments where you know,
Speaker 5: if you're if you're watching this from the south, go
Speaker 5: down in the comment section, like like, let us let
Speaker 5: us know what what what you're experiencing down there and
Speaker 5: how people are, how people are responding to it. H
Speaker 5: that that you know, that amount of snow in a
Speaker 5: place that's you know, familiar with snow used to getting
Speaker 5: it isn't isn't the problem at all. But we can
Speaker 5: put up this this next element here you can see
Speaker 5: how uh deep and vast this this snowstorm is like
Speaker 5: covering not you know, New Orleans, all across the Panhandle
Speaker 5: into into Georgia.
Speaker 4: Uh, just truly truly like.
Speaker 5: Unusual amounts of snow and colder in places that just
Speaker 5: aren't aren't prepped for it. Now obviously, because you know
Speaker 5: this is the timeline we live in, everyone immediately starts
Speaker 5: making making this political uh the political link here of course,
Speaker 5: you can put up D three here. Uh Trump aside
Speaker 5: from announcing an energy emergency and saying that he's gonna
Speaker 5: you know, lift, you know, lift any restrictions you can
Speaker 5: find on drilling, baby drilling drilling in Alaska, drilling off
Speaker 5: the coastline, whatever you find.
Speaker 4: He announced, you can put up D.
Speaker 5: Three here that he, uh, the US is going to
Speaker 5: pull out of, uh, the Paris Accords, which, on the
Speaker 5: one hand, doesn't matter. The Paris Accords are you know,
Speaker 5: voluntary commitments.
Speaker 4: And if if oh, D.
Speaker 5: Three is a stot here, let's let's let's roll Trump
Speaker 5: talking about withdrawing from the Paris Climate courts.
Speaker 8: Next item here is the withdrawal from the Paris Climate Treaty.
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, we're.
Speaker 8: Going to save over a trillion dollars by withdrawing from
Speaker 8: that treat.
Speaker 5: So they say, there, we're going to You heard the
Speaker 5: announcer at the end say we're going to save over
Speaker 5: a trillion dollars withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accords. That
Speaker 5: is just complete absurdity. You know, the cost of dealing
Speaker 5: with the climate crisis, I think is far less than
Speaker 5: the cost of not dealing with it. Ask ask anybody
Speaker 5: who's dealing with any of the you know, knock on
Speaker 5: effects of the of the climate crisis. And like I
Speaker 5: was saying, it's a it's a voluntary accord, so the
Speaker 5: costs are zero, Like it's just we signed, I would
Speaker 5: say we're going to try to do X. We're also
Speaker 5: getting to a place where it's very difficult for.
Speaker 4: Us to use the arguments that we used to use.
Speaker 5: We used to say, it's just not fair that, you know,
Speaker 5: we're being asked to, you know, deal with the burden
Speaker 5: of reducing our emissions when you've got countries like China
Speaker 5: over here who are just blasting away with their emissions.
Speaker 5: That was always a specious argument, because you know, China
Speaker 5: was blasting away, creating emissions to produce junk that they
Speaker 5: would put on barges and send over here for us
Speaker 5: to use. So if really, you know, the one responsible
Speaker 5: for the emissions is to me, the one that's enjoying
Speaker 5: the kind of you know, product of it, rather than
Speaker 5: the one that's making it. But setting that aside, China
Speaker 5: is has either peaked already or is set to peak
Speaker 5: very soon when it comes to its emissions, and it
Speaker 5: is on the way down, and is also producing virtually
Speaker 5: all of say, the components for the solar industry, wind turbines,
Speaker 5: et cetera. So we are going to be complaining about
Speaker 5: bearing the soul burden of addressing the climate crisis for
Speaker 5: an eternity, while China actually goes and addresses the climate crisis.
Speaker 1: And this show is sponsored by Byteedance.
Speaker 4: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 5: So anyway, first of all, are you hearing from anybody
Speaker 5: down in the South dealing with this?
Speaker 6: You know, I've heard from people enjoying it. If you're
Speaker 6: not in an emergency situation, you can see how kids
Speaker 6: are just loving this. They're kind of this a once
Speaker 6: in a generation storm. Across these Gulf States, there are emergencies.
Speaker 6: There have been emergencies issued across I believe the Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Florida,
Speaker 6: and Mississippi. They're getting snow in Texas, significant snow in Texas.
Speaker 1: Actually.
Speaker 6: The other thing I just want to mention Ryan is
Speaker 6: that as evacuations are happening down in San Diego now
Speaker 6: from another wildfire, and there have been lots of deaths
Speaker 6: in the state of California just in the last couple
Speaker 6: of weeks. The death toll we shouldn't forget from Hurricane
Speaker 6: Helene was I think about two hundred and thirty as
Speaker 6: of what we know right now, there's already there are
Speaker 6: already where people are waking up this morning too. I
Speaker 6: think news that ten people have passed aways as axios
Speaker 6: historics know, and icy conditions have been linked to at
Speaker 6: least ten deaths as it disrupts travel across the southern
Speaker 6: United States. So this is you know, it's depending on
Speaker 6: how you're experiencing it, obviously affecting people differently. But this
Speaker 6: this stuff is no joke, no joke at all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So be safe out there, and yeah, enjoy yourself.
Speaker 5: See if you can find a sled, I doubt many
Speaker 5: people have them.
Speaker 6: You can use cardboard, by the way, that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 6: that's a tip. You can if you don't have a
Speaker 6: sled and they don't sell it at a wind Dixie,
Speaker 6: just get some cardboard.
Speaker 5: Everybody's everybody's got cardboard, and yeah, it'll last for a
Speaker 5: half hour, forty five minutes.
Speaker 4: Then go get another piece of cardboard.
Speaker 1: You have a lot of it because of Jeff Bezos.
Speaker 4: Yes, you absolutely do.
Speaker 8: Well.
Speaker 6: Obviously, it's Donald Trump's first week in office, and the
Speaker 6: media is reacting about.
Speaker 1: As you would expect.
Speaker 6: Now, there's raging debate over Elon Musk's alleged Nazi salute,
Speaker 6: and I know Crystal and Zager covered that yesterday, but
Speaker 6: we wanted to bring this clip of Rachel Mattow reacting
Speaker 6: to the moment that Elon Musk. He says, you gave
Speaker 6: his heart out to the audience. That was the line
Speaker 6: he followed up the salute with. But here's what Rachel
Speaker 6: Mattow had to say, and then we'll bring you a
Speaker 6: fun clip from the view, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 4: My heart goes out to you.
Speaker 1: He does it twice.
Speaker 4: And again. Maybe that's not what he meant. Maybe he
Speaker 4: doesn't know what that is that happened today.
Speaker 15: What we're seeing here with the January sixth pardons, this
Speaker 15: kind of thing does have the benefit of novelty, right,
Speaker 15: we've never quite seen something like this before. But like
Speaker 15: with the corruption, the boring thing about it is that
Speaker 15: we know exactly what this leads to. Authoritarian rulers all
Speaker 15: over the world have always liked to have pair military
Speaker 15: loyal but unofficial perpetrators of violence and menace to work
Speaker 15: on their behalf, to intimidate and hurt anyone in opposition,
Speaker 15: to make it too scary for normal people to participate
Speaker 15: in politics or civic life, to make everybody who might
Speaker 15: oppost Trump in any way worry about the thugs that
Speaker 15: might turn up at their door. Trump pardoning and releasing
Speaker 15: from prison the January sixth defendants, including the paramilitaries, means
Speaker 15: he is effectively immunizing his followers from committing violence in
Speaker 15: his name. He's making clear, you know, if you support me,
Speaker 15: the law.
Speaker 4: Doesn't apply to you.
Speaker 15: We've had political violence before, we've had civil war, but
Speaker 15: before each of those things has been treated as a
Speaker 15: calamity and a scandal.
Speaker 4: This time it's a platform.
Speaker 1: Okay, rain.
Speaker 6: So what she did there was make this case that
Speaker 6: Elon Musk, and if people were listening to this, they
Speaker 6: didn't see on the screen what her chiron. What wasn't
Speaker 6: the chiren, It was a picture on the screen said
Speaker 6: was all caps.
Speaker 1: This is not a drill.
Speaker 6: And so she's making the case that Elon Musk's what
Speaker 6: she seemed to believe was a suggestion or a gesture
Speaker 6: towards metaphorically and literally that that kind of fascist, right
Speaker 6: wing and maybe even Nazi history. What she's saying is
Speaker 6: that ties into the j six pardons, because it's this
Speaker 6: nudging of paramilitary groups that support Trump to to kind
Speaker 6: of mobilize and rally behind him. So what did you
Speaker 6: make of that that's a that's an argument that actually
Speaker 6: I can see it being sort of a sendant. What
Speaker 6: do you make of it?
Speaker 5: I mean in general, Yeah, And I think a guy
Speaker 5: like Elon Musk, who is currently out supporting the far
Speaker 5: right in Germany, doesn't get a whole lot of benefit
Speaker 5: of the doubt when he does this this gesture twice,
Speaker 5: you know, one time, ok, whoops, then he does it
Speaker 5: another time.
Speaker 4: I mean, I also think, and Musk has said.
Speaker 5: Many times that he is at heart a troll, and
Speaker 5: the like the troll kind of meme world that he
Speaker 5: comes out of loves to flirt.
Speaker 4: With this kind of stuff like that.
Speaker 5: That's one of their main trolls, Like, they love to
Speaker 5: get the libs upset about something like this.
Speaker 4: And so.
Speaker 5: I could see him having done it deliberately with some
Speaker 5: type of deniability, just to create this spectacle, because the
Speaker 5: far right people absolutely saw it for what they believe
Speaker 5: it was. They loved it, like they thought it was
Speaker 5: directed right at them, like look what he's doing. And
Speaker 5: it's not as if he was like, oh wow, sorry
Speaker 5: about that, I can't believe I did that. You know,
Speaker 5: he's just kind of laughing along with it, which is
Speaker 5: what you would do if you were deliberately doing it
Speaker 5: as a troll.
Speaker 6: So although it's also what you would do if you
Speaker 6: were like if you see everybody just totally overthinking your attempt,
Speaker 6: and I'm just taking his charitable explanation, I'm taking his
Speaker 6: explanation here charitably he was he He says that he
Speaker 6: was giving his heart to the audience, So when he
Speaker 6: patted his chest, he was patting his heart, and then
Speaker 6: when he extended his arm, he was extending it up
Speaker 6: to the audience.
Speaker 4: So the charitable you did it like this right, that's how.
Speaker 1: You would also smacked my computer, But that's.
Speaker 5: How you would do that he did with the sprinkling
Speaker 5: his heart on people like, how do you go from
Speaker 5: how do you go that way unless you're deliberately like
Speaker 5: come on, Like.
Speaker 6: You're giving him way more credit for being a well
Speaker 6: adjusted sort of adult human being, I think, but even.
Speaker 4: More work to do that than than the normal Like,
Speaker 4: but I.
Speaker 6: Was just saying, like, it's also like going along with
Speaker 6: it and joking about it, and it is I think
Speaker 6: also how you would react to it if you're like,
Speaker 6: oh my gosh, people are overthinking the stupid gesture that
Speaker 6: I made with my arm, So I don't know if
Speaker 6: the reaction itself is any like vindication of the point
Speaker 6: that this was a Nazi salute. And I also, I
Speaker 6: mean a f D is that's what you're referencing support
Speaker 6: for in Germany. I mean, Elon Musk says that he
Speaker 6: supports a f D for like similar reasons that he
Speaker 6: supports Donald Trump, meaning the borders, immigration, refugees, asylum, Uh,
Speaker 6: that sort of thing, and a f D is it's
Speaker 6: just so wild and German politics are wild.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't think there, I don't.
Speaker 6: I don't think there are you know, at least not yet,
Speaker 6: shades of early Hitler in Elon Musk. So to that extent,
Speaker 6: I just feel like I'll freak out when he says
Speaker 6: something that makes him sound like a Nazi and gestures
Speaker 6: like this. To me, it just looks like Elon Musk
Speaker 6: being a weirdo.
Speaker 4: Anyway, The View responded to it. You know, let's let's
Speaker 4: hear the view.
Speaker 6: The View has been having a week. They've been talking
Speaker 6: in general about Trump reacting to his speech, and they
Speaker 6: had an interesting take.
Speaker 11: A sick listen the speech itself. I remember when it
Speaker 11: was done. My first reaction was you know, what is
Speaker 11: this country he speaks of, because I immediately couldn't reconcile
Speaker 11: the way I see the country and the people and
Speaker 11: how it is right now and where he saw it
Speaker 11: it was. He didn't say carnage, but he said carnage
Speaker 11: pretty much in everything else. Do you remember the reference
Speaker 11: from his first inauguration he said carnage. I just kind
Speaker 11: of felt this dark feeling, and then he had this
Speaker 11: kind of martyr like like, you guys are downtrodden and
Speaker 11: almost irrep you can't save this place, but I can,
Speaker 11: and like it had this like godlike complex without any
Speaker 11: Jesus qualities, Like it was kind of like a juxtaposition.
Speaker 11: But I was really disappointed, not surprised, just to be clear,
Speaker 11: but disappointed that there wasn't one kind thing to say
Speaker 11: about the outgoing administration.
Speaker 1: My postures this, you.
Speaker 16: Guys know, my criticisms of Donald Trump, they remain. I'm
Speaker 16: going to pay pray for the president. I'm going to
Speaker 16: thank him when he does things that are good, like
Speaker 16: the hostage deal. I commend him. I'm grateful for that,
Speaker 16: and I'm going to call it out when he does
Speaker 16: things that are recklessly.
Speaker 4: And I'm gonna call it out when you.
Speaker 11: Talking about Trump, who's been negotiating.
Speaker 4: Love to see our old rising hosts over at the View.
Speaker 1: Now everyone's having fun. I mean the other thing.
Speaker 5: For people who don't know, like she was briefly a
Speaker 5: rising co host before she got snatched up by the
Speaker 5: by the ladies of the.
Speaker 6: View, snatched up by the Lady's View a memoir, the
Speaker 6: great memoir title, But yeah, I mean they it's interesting
Speaker 6: because just one more point on the Elon must thing.
Speaker 6: I just remember when I was at the Federal List.
Speaker 6: I think the right is kind of sensitive to this
Speaker 6: and hopefully it doesn't lead to something that gets taken
Speaker 6: advantage of by genuine bad people who have awful, like racist,
Speaker 6: bigoted intentions. But uh, the when I worked at the Federalists,
Speaker 6: there was like a many news cycle. You might remember
Speaker 6: this Ryan about the Federalist eagle being a crypto, a cryptic.
Speaker 1: Nazi symbol, and it just like, to me.
Speaker 6: This feels like it was plucked from that era of
Speaker 6: like twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen, of like finding Nazi
Speaker 6: stuff in everything. But maybe it's also just sort of
Speaker 6: a roar test. I don't know, but I think the
Speaker 6: View also that clip. The reason I wanted to include
Speaker 6: it here is just that this this these differing reactions
Speaker 6: to Trump two point zero, there's some people who and
Speaker 6: I think this is the views example. I mean, when
Speaker 6: Trump one point zero started, Alyssa was working for Donald Trump,
Speaker 6: and now it's twenty twenty five, enthusiastically working for Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: And now it's twenty twenty five, and I feel like
Speaker 6: the view is sort of stuck in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,
Speaker 6: whereas we're starting to hear I guess, smarter criticisms of
Speaker 6: Trump from different corners of the media. I don't know
Speaker 6: if you've noticed that, or like evolved criticisms of Trump
Speaker 6: that don't feel quite as hysterical as I would say
Speaker 6: that the Matto clip did just now or the view,
Speaker 6: I don't know, do you agree with that that it
Speaker 6: was evolution.
Speaker 5: The entire resistance liberal architecture is gone, like it's it has,
Speaker 5: It has not reappeared at all like the last eight
Speaker 5: years ago. On January twenty first, there were five roughly
Speaker 5: five million people in the streets. It was the largest
Speaker 5: single day demonstration in American history. Hundreds of thousands, maybe
Speaker 5: half a million in Washington, d C. And then another
Speaker 5: some you know, four plus million in cities all across
Speaker 5: the country, Alaska, like you name it. Everybody who was
Speaker 5: who had been kind of just passively involved in politics
Speaker 5: on the Democratic side and did not think that Donald
Speaker 5: Trump was going to win, was kind of shocked into action.
Speaker 5: A lot of them ended up running for office a lot,
Speaker 5: but they came out and protested the Muslim band shortly
Speaker 5: after that.
Speaker 6: And.
Speaker 5: That, like that kind of changed what Trump was able
Speaker 5: to get done.
Speaker 7: It.
Speaker 4: It did create a political counterbalance.
Speaker 5: It's not even it's not even remotely there this time,
Speaker 5: like nobody's even trying to pull that together.
Speaker 6: The protests happened unless you were on the national mall
Speaker 6: over the course of the inauguration weekend, and that was
Speaker 6: so different from the Women's March, where you know, you
Speaker 6: could it was it bled into everywhere.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's it's just a completely different world, which
Speaker 5: which then creates space for some different kind of criticism
Speaker 5: and reaction which is still taking form and shape, and
Speaker 5: we'll see what that ends up looking like. Following the
Speaker 5: cease firing Gaza, Israel launched a massive raid into Janine,
Speaker 5: which is a resistance foot stronghold in the West Bank.
Speaker 4: We can put up this.
Speaker 5: Article here by Sharif Abdel Cadus and Mariam Barghuti in
Speaker 5: drop site News.
Speaker 4: We'll just want to read from a little bit about this.
Speaker 4: They write.
Speaker 5: Isral launch a major military operation in the occupied West
Speaker 5: Bank on Tuesday, raiding the city with troops, military vehicles,
Speaker 5: and bulldozers, backed by airstrikes, drones and Apache helicopters. At
Speaker 5: least nine Palestinians have been killed and more than forty
Speaker 5: wounded in the ongoing operation, according to the Ramla based
Speaker 5: Palestinian Health Ministry. Prime Minister Benjamin Netyah, who said the
Speaker 5: goal of the quote large scale and significant military operation
Speaker 5: was to eradicate terrorism in Janine. Netnyahu wrote on Twitter,
Speaker 5: we are acting systematically and decisively against the Iranian access
Speaker 5: axis wherever it extends its reach. Now this is coming
Speaker 5: as at the same time that there have been riots
Speaker 5: in Jerusalem.
Speaker 4: We can put up some of this footage over there.
Speaker 5: Because after some of the captive the Palestinian captives were
Speaker 5: released by Israel as part of the ceasefire deal, settlers,
Speaker 5: Israeli settlers then kind of stormed into a refugee camp
Speaker 5: to try to take revenge over that. The IDF or
Speaker 5: the Israeli police showed up and saw massed men with
Speaker 5: guns and believed them to be Palestinians, shot at them,
Speaker 5: not realizing that they were Israeli extremist settlers, and critically
Speaker 5: wounded two of them. And the result that the result
Speaker 5: of that shooting has been these these riots that from
Speaker 5: the Israeli public saying, you know, condemning the Israeli government
Speaker 5: for accidentally mistaking Israelis for Palestinians and shooting at them.
Speaker 5: And so while so far nine, you know, roughly ninety
Speaker 5: Palestinians were released as part of the hostage deal, already
Speaker 5: Israel has detained more than ninety Palestinians in the West Bank,
Speaker 5: giving a real kind of spinning the wheels feel to
Speaker 5: the attempts to reach some type of peace agreement here.
Speaker 5: At the same time, Uh the the Trump's Middle East envoy,
Speaker 5: the man you know, Wikoff, who was able to kind
Speaker 5: of browbeat Yahoo into agreeing to this ceasefire deal. Uh
Speaker 5: said a couple of days ago that he was considering
Speaker 5: a trip to Gaza to see for himself what the
Speaker 5: destruction has been like.
Speaker 4: There.
Speaker 5: That was followed yesterday with and we can put up
Speaker 5: F four here with an explicit invitation from Hamas to
Speaker 5: say that that Witkoff is is welcome to come and
Speaker 5: engage in direct talks with Hamasti, to to see for
Speaker 5: himself what the situation is to he and to hear
Speaker 5: directly from Palestinians and from Palestinian leadership, you know where
Speaker 5: they are on the the unfolding UH ceasefire.
Speaker 4: H Emily Uh.
Speaker 5: Witkoff's intervention into this you at Trump's behest into into
Speaker 5: this conflict has seemed to change the tenor of it.
Speaker 5: But what Yahoo is showing here, it seems, is that
Speaker 5: he is intent on ratcheting up violence, you know, wherever
Speaker 5: and whenever he can.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: Besil Smotrich was quoted as saying that this raid in
Speaker 5: Janine was authorized by the war cabinet as a new
Speaker 5: kind of war aim in exchange for Smotrich and his
Speaker 5: party agreeing to the ceasefire in Gaza. So, in other words,
Speaker 5: if we're gonna, if we're gonna sign on to this ceasefire,
Speaker 5: you have to launch that this incursion into Janine and
Speaker 5: make this not just a police actions as sometimes happens
Speaker 5: in Janine, but a full scale invasion. So Uhahu agreed
Speaker 5: to that and is and is also saying that he.
Speaker 4: Holds open the.
Speaker 5: Possibility of not just possibility, but almost the certainty of
Speaker 5: resuming the war in Gaza.
Speaker 4: But then enter whitcough.
Speaker 5: Do you think that uh witcough or Trump kind of
Speaker 5: have the will to intervene here, because it seems like
Speaker 5: they'd have to just constantly befending this off, like that
Speaker 5: this is the kind of thing you can do once
Speaker 5: and that it's done. They have to be there with
Speaker 5: their foot in the door keeping it from closing at
Speaker 5: all times.
Speaker 6: And basically no Republican president other than Donald Trump would
Speaker 6: have agreed to this particular ceasefire deal. This is another
Speaker 6: way in which he totally confuses the boundaries, where he
Speaker 6: totally like sort of explodes the boundaries of acceptable policy
Speaker 6: maneuvering on the right. And so I don't know that
Speaker 6: people in Trump's orbit expected what you just laid out run,
Speaker 6: which I think is totally correct, because we know one
Speaker 6: thing Donald Trump is more sensitive about than just about
Speaker 6: anything else is looking a fool, being made to look
Speaker 6: a fool. He doesn't seem to particularly like Benjamin Yahoo
Speaker 6: we've mentioned before, but he posted the reposted that Jeffrey
Speaker 6: Sachs video about a month ago, and.
Speaker 1: He's had plenty of criticism for netyah who in the past.
Speaker 6: So I don't think he wants to put up with
Speaker 6: Netnyah who's or what he sees is net Yah who's bullshit.
Speaker 6: He doesn't want to look like he's being you know,
Speaker 6: steered by Benjamin NETANYAHUO and that he is not fully
Speaker 6: in control.
Speaker 1: As Donald Trump.
Speaker 6: And that's the dynamic I think that's going to unfold
Speaker 6: with alongside this new ideological component to the point about
Speaker 6: no Republican president, you know, agreeing to this deal other
Speaker 6: than Donald Trump. But I don't think most Republicans in
Speaker 6: Congress would have agreed to this deal, and maybe not
Speaker 6: even in his own cabinet.
Speaker 1: And so at least a phonic as she was.
Speaker 4: Before we get to hurt.
Speaker 5: One other piece that private people have probably seen. Trump
Speaker 5: was asked about whether he thought the cease fire and
Speaker 5: guys that would hold at his one of his overal
Speaker 5: office press conferences, and he said, I doubt it now
Speaker 5: and it's not as you know, he said, it's it's
Speaker 5: their war, which I'm sure was caused for celebration in
Speaker 5: Tel Aviv among the Yahoo circle.
Speaker 6: Great, but what does that mean in terms of US
Speaker 6: support you? So is that what's on the table with
Speaker 6: Donald Trump? This is your war?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: Is it our weapons and their war? Because that right exactly?
Speaker 5: And what makes it their war rather than our war?
Speaker 5: So that seems to be his his wish, like I
Speaker 5: think that's what Donald Trump wishes, that it.
Speaker 4: Was their war and not ours.
Speaker 6: But it is ours well, And a big reason for
Speaker 6: that is because the sort of ideological convictions of the
Speaker 6: sort of coalition that's been part of the Republican Party
Speaker 6: for a long time that we'll see on display here
Speaker 6: is E five. This is a least stephonic getting asked.
Speaker 6: And remember Trump's ambassador to Israel is Mike Hugabye as well.
Speaker 6: So when you hear a least to phonics the answer
Speaker 6: to answer to this question, just bear in mind that
Speaker 6: this is.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously, we all know this. You don't even
Speaker 1: need to be reminded of.
Speaker 6: This a fairly consensus position among the sort of intellectual
Speaker 6: class of the Republican Party. Maybe not the Median Republican voter,
Speaker 6: although I'm sure many would say yes. But here's how
Speaker 6: at least Stephanic Handa handled a question about the kind
Speaker 6: of ideological underpinnings of her position.
Speaker 4: Here answers in my office.
Speaker 17: But I did ask you whether you subscribe to the
Speaker 17: views of Finance Minister Smotrich.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Mo Trich.
Speaker 17: This is Israeli Finance Minister Smotrich and the former National
Speaker 17: Security Minister Benivier, who believe that Israel has a biblical
Speaker 17: right to the entire West Bank. And in that conversation
Speaker 17: you told me that, yes, you shared that view.
Speaker 4: Is that your view today?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 17: I think when it comes to this very difficult issue,
Speaker 17: if the President is going to succeed at bringing peace
Speaker 17: and stability to the Middle East, we're going to have
Speaker 17: to look at the UN Security Council resolutions, not just
Speaker 17: the ones on Lebanon, which we should enforce, but other
Speaker 17: UN Security Council resolutions, and it's going to be very
Speaker 17: difficult to achieve that if you continue to hold the
Speaker 17: view that you just expressed, which is a view that
Speaker 17: was not held by the founders of the State of Israel,
Speaker 17: who were secular Zionists, not religious.
Speaker 6: Hiis oh great, So she's being confirmed for ambassadors to
Speaker 6: the United Niche. And you could parse that in a
Speaker 6: bunch of different ways. I'm sure she could, or a
Speaker 6: defender of hers could argue that when she says she
Speaker 6: believes that there's a biblical claim to those lands, they
Speaker 6: just mean it in terms of like the Bible laying
Speaker 6: out the history of the Jewish people having a claim
Speaker 6: to being the indigenous people. Quite different, right, But oh yeah,
Speaker 6: I mean so I think the the obvious and that
Speaker 6: you know, an evangelical Christian like a Mike Hakabee would
Speaker 6: say that biblical Israel and the way that it's sort
Speaker 6: of described not just in the Old Testament, but the
Speaker 6: New Testament is referring to the modern political state of Israel.
Speaker 6: And that's not an uncommon belief in evangelical circles. It's
Speaker 6: not an uncommon belief in uh many religious circles. So
Speaker 6: I think that's that's likely, uh the interpretation that's correct
Speaker 6: in this case. In her case, it takes to explain
Speaker 6: how why a least defind answer the question that way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the word Israel is in the Bible, Like, Okay,
Speaker 5: that's true, but what that what that has to do
Speaker 5: with UN security resolutions is like nothing.
Speaker 6: It definitely makes any two state solution, which is like
Speaker 6: the point that US politicians push on Israel and who
Speaker 6: says he doesn't believe in a two state solution. That's
Speaker 6: the ideological position of the secular, even secular Zionists, even
Speaker 6: somebody like who.
Speaker 1: And that's a pretty.
Speaker 6: Hard square to circle if you're if you're trying to
Speaker 6: deal with the West Bank.
Speaker 5: And so it's such a convoluted mess because of like
Speaker 5: you like that uh, out of control ideology, ideological like
Speaker 5: a relationship to Zionism that you're that you're describing there,
Speaker 5: coupled with some other developments that we're seeing not just this,
Speaker 5: not just the ceasefire that we have so far, but
Speaker 5: also we can put up this next element up on
Speaker 5: the screen here.
Speaker 11: Uh.
Speaker 5: Trump in one of his first actions, UH, stripped John
Speaker 5: Bolton of the security detail.
Speaker 1: That's a great tweet though, by the way, you should
Speaker 1: read it on the screen.
Speaker 4: Matthew Petty.
Speaker 5: Matthew Petty tweeted the Iran deal two point zero will
Speaker 5: be offering John Bolton as a blood sacrifice in exchange
Speaker 5: for building Trump Tower Tehran.
Speaker 4: Which is like everything in this era.
Speaker 5: Uh, a joke, but also not a joke like.
Speaker 4: These are the these are the times we're living in.
Speaker 5: Like Trump just yesterday was talking about how North Korea
Speaker 5: has incredible condo opportunities because of the seafront, you know,
Speaker 5: so much seafront property. He talked about how spectacular you
Speaker 5: could do a kind of kind of condo rebuild in Gaza.
Speaker 5: So the idea of Trump Tower Tehran is not ridiculous.
Speaker 6: And they are literally in Arabia, no, I mean they
Speaker 6: literally announced, the Trump organization literally recently announced they're doing
Speaker 6: a second Saudi Arabia and tower. Like it's it's to
Speaker 6: your point, Ryan, like, yes, but they're also like literally
Speaker 6: holding these towers and with countries that we do these
Speaker 6: like extremely important form relations with and Trump is technically
Speaker 6: divested from Trump Organization at all of that. But we
Speaker 6: don't need to open up the can of worms to
Speaker 6: say that the joke has some legs.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And my view on the Bolton cure is for
Speaker 5: your take on this. My view on the Bolton decision
Speaker 5: to not give him this twenty four hour security anymore
Speaker 5: is you know, bold, like I don't you know, I
Speaker 5: don't want anybody killed, but you know, Bolton has made
Speaker 5: his choices Bolton, as you know, decided to live by
Speaker 5: the sword, like the most militaristic kind of policy career
Speaker 5: that you could really conjure up in twentieth and twenty
Speaker 5: first century America. Like the body count that trails behind
Speaker 5: him is just completely countless. So he got to do
Speaker 5: that with his career. The public does not then have
Speaker 5: some special obligation.
Speaker 4: To him because he made those decisions.
Speaker 5: Uh, security details are insanely expensive, like you know, million
Speaker 5: could you know who? Like I don't, we don't know
Speaker 5: what it cost, but like millions and millions of dollars,
Speaker 5: like this is not a it's not a small amount
Speaker 5: of money to have a security detail on a on
Speaker 5: a single person like this.
Speaker 1: And so correct me if I'm wrong. R.
Speaker 6: This was he was the subject of an alleged Iranian
Speaker 6: assassination plot and that's.
Speaker 5: Right, and related related presumably to his U push to
Speaker 5: assassinate cost some solemney who who was an Iranian official
Speaker 5: who was killed in Baghdad after landing you know, in
Speaker 5: the airport and then getting into a car with with
Speaker 5: some other Iranian officials wearing a suit you know he
Speaker 5: was he was he ran the IRGC and and you
Speaker 5: know he you know, UH, so you know, he had
Speaker 5: himself a huge trail of bodies behind him. He made,
Speaker 5: you know, he made his choices, but assassinating him with
Speaker 5: a drone in another country was it was a huge
Speaker 5: break with norms uh and and and I believe that's
Speaker 5: the main thing that that Iran UH has said that
Speaker 5: they're you know, angry at Bolton. For for Trump to
Speaker 5: so quickly strip the security detail from him does to
Speaker 5: me suggest that he's serious about actually some type of
Speaker 5: Iran reproachmont which he himself blew up by walking out
Speaker 5: of the UH the Iran Nuclear Deal and then and
Speaker 5: then entering into the Abraham Accords in an attempt to
Speaker 5: kind of uh but you know, combat and counteract UH
Speaker 5: Iran you through you know, a combination of you know,
Speaker 5: an alliance between you A Israel and Saudi Arabia. What's
Speaker 5: fascinating is that, you know, while we're inaugury and new
Speaker 5: president here over in Davos, the World Economic Forum, Joe's
Speaker 5: our meeting, so of course the Saudis are there as well.
Speaker 4: You can put up F seven there.
Speaker 5: So the Saudi Foreign Minister at Davos gave a speech
Speaker 5: basically it's very strongly encouraging Trump to continue pursuing warm
Speaker 5: relations with Iran. And you know, so Israel's you know,
Speaker 5: assault on Gaz over the last fifteen months has created
Speaker 5: the kind of kind of political pressure in the region
Speaker 5: that has pushed paradoxically Saudi Arabia and Iran closer together.
Speaker 5: China has actually helped to broker or approachment between them,
Speaker 5: And what the Saudi Foreign Minister is saying is keep
Speaker 5: keep that going, like we don't actually need to be
Speaker 5: adversaries in the way that we are with Iran. And
Speaker 5: so if this is some kind of blood sacrifice fig leaf,
Speaker 5: maybe maybe that joke of a tweet was not reading
Speaker 5: too much into it, and go to this last element
Speaker 5: and then we get your.
Speaker 4: Response to it.
Speaker 5: This is f eight yesterday, So the headline here in
Speaker 5: the Jewish Jewish Insider is pro Israel Republicans alarmed over
Speaker 5: Trump's Defense Department appoint e.
Speaker 4: And it's actually kind of plural.
Speaker 5: The yeah, yesterday, the Trump administration announced a whole slew
Speaker 5: of top political appointees over at at the Pentagon, a
Speaker 5: dozen or more names, and not a single Neocon on
Speaker 5: that list, not a single iron Hawk on the list.
Speaker 5: They also announced that they were firing Brian Hook, who
Speaker 5: we reported on here, who was He was one of
Speaker 5: the hard hardest core iron hawks in the previous Trump
Speaker 5: administration and was brought in to be the a chair
Speaker 5: of the State Department Transition. And when when he was
Speaker 5: appointed to that, a lot of people like, oh, yikes,
Speaker 5: like this is this is bad news, Like if you've
Speaker 5: got him in there, this seems like you're going to
Speaker 5: be organizing for a confrontation with Iran. The first thing
Speaker 5: he tried to do was try to get Mike Pompeo
Speaker 5: as Secretary of State. That failed, and now Hook himself
Speaker 5: has has been fired and Trump fired him.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you noticed this in a hilarious
Speaker 4: way he said I have.
Speaker 5: He basically he said, I have fired a bunch of
Speaker 5: idiots from the previous administration, and he put him on
Speaker 5: the list of those idiots who worked for the previous administration.
Speaker 5: What he was implying is that he worked for Biden,
Speaker 5: but he actually worked for Trump and was the chair
Speaker 5: of Trump's State Department transition. So just a classic Trump
Speaker 5: of like hiring the guy and then when he fires
Speaker 5: him saying he didn't even know him, and he's like
Speaker 5: pretending he wasn't the chair of the transition, and hey,
Speaker 5: I'm not going to call him out because good because
Speaker 5: you know, get that guy out of here. I think
Speaker 5: Sager posted something on Twitter yesterday saying, like the list
Speaker 5: of names that were at the Trump depart was just
Speaker 5: you know, banger after banger, like these are kind of
Speaker 5: anti interventionists. You know these folks better than I do.
Speaker 5: But from my people in these in this world, they
Speaker 5: were thrilled at this. And the fact that Jewish Insider,
Speaker 5: which is a very strong reflection of the kind of
Speaker 5: a pack lacud wing is is alarmed, suggests that the excitement,
Speaker 5: you know, has the merit to it.
Speaker 4: What what's what? What's your assessment? Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did this as well. I forget which publication
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 6: It was a conservative publication and it was a I
Speaker 6: think a relatively pro interventionist publication that did this, with
Speaker 6: Bridge Colby at the kind of gun. Yeah, Soccer's probably
Speaker 6: right that like this is again we were talking earlier
Speaker 6: in the show about the immigration hawks seeing this as
Speaker 6: a generational moment for a crackdown because they had these
Speaker 6: kind of four Biden interim years to plot a potential
Speaker 6: Trump return and potential with a popular vote win that
Speaker 6: they feel like is a mandate and the wind.
Speaker 1: At their back.
Speaker 6: And they got basically exactly what they were looking for.
Speaker 6: And that'll have some interesting ramifications. But one place where
Speaker 6: it could be really positive is on foreign policy, where
Speaker 6: the conservative movements has made.
Speaker 1: A genuine shift.
Speaker 6: Not everyone, of course, but you know Donald Trump, you know,
Speaker 6: out with Bolton and in with these guys, in with
Speaker 6: the quote banger after banger list that you referenced from soccer.
Speaker 6: Taking a look at who's at the Pentagon, you could
Speaker 6: say the same thing over at the State Department. It's
Speaker 6: shaping up from what I'm hearing to look really similar.
Speaker 6: So that's obviously not to say that this is going
Speaker 6: to be like Rand Paul's Pentagon and State Department or
Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders Pentagon and State Department. But just about anything
Speaker 6: is better than the status quo we've been experiencing and
Speaker 6: you know for the last how many decades, and whatever
Speaker 6: you think about Donald Trump, he is very good at
Speaker 6: disrupting the status quo. And if it's going to get disrupted,
Speaker 6: please please disrupt our foreign policy because it desperately needs new,
Speaker 6: fresh voices. And Trump is sincerely bringing them in, so
Speaker 6: we'll see where that goes.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Israel. He seems very happy with Steve
Speaker 1: Wickcough so far.
Speaker 6: He seems very happy with the deal so far, even
Speaker 6: if a lot of his Republican allies are not. But
Speaker 6: this can all I mean, obviously, this is we were
Speaker 6: talking about. This is the theme of the show. Is
Speaker 6: his coalition of personnel is so fragile, his coalition of
Speaker 6: personnel worth, his coalition of supporters is fragile in and
Speaker 6: of itself. So this is just a lot that can
Speaker 6: change very quickly. But he's at least setting himself up
Speaker 6: in a much better position in terms of positive foreign
Speaker 6: policy outcomes than he did in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And the reason we wanted to do all this
Speaker 5: in one segment is because all of those things are related.
Speaker 5: If Trump only cared about the Gaza sees fire deal
Speaker 5: because of Gaza per se it would fall apart because
Speaker 5: he doesn't really care about that. But the Saudi Iran
Speaker 5: an Israel relationship is key to that. Trump very much
Speaker 5: wants a Saudi Israel normalization deal like that. He desperately
Speaker 5: wants that, and he wants that to be one of
Speaker 5: the things he does in order to get that. Gaza
Speaker 5: can't be in a conflagration. There cannot be in genocide
Speaker 5: still going on in Gaza. To get that Nobel Peace
Speaker 5: Prize that we were talking about on the show last
Speaker 5: week would require an Iran Saudi Israel. You know, you're
Speaker 5: not going to get Iran in Israel. But if you
Speaker 5: can get Iran and Saudi Arabia, Iran in the US,
Speaker 5: Israel and Saudi Arabia together and deal that is that's
Speaker 5: like Peace Prize worthy. And none of that can happen
Speaker 5: if Gaza is still undergoing the genocide like that.
Speaker 4: So that would be the structural reason that.
Speaker 5: He would actually kind of push back on net Yahoo's
Speaker 5: effort to keep this going. The article you're talking about,
Speaker 5: by the way, it also was in Jewish Insider, and
Speaker 5: the headline was rumored for a Trump posting Elbridge Colby's
Speaker 5: dubvish views on Iran stand out.
Speaker 6: And then it's just absolutely stupid. It's complete nonsense. He's
Speaker 6: he's a realist, he's anyway, we don't need to get into.
Speaker 5: It, but it is just he steamroll He's steamrolled through.
Speaker 5: Albertge Gubli is in there, and.
Speaker 6: People are very excited about it. In the sort of d. C.
Speaker 6: Magot world, they're very excited about it.
Speaker 5: So all right, we'll see where that goes. Anyway, Emily,
Speaker 5: thanks for thanks for bearing with us.
Speaker 4: No, thank you on the road.
Speaker 1: Thanks for thanks for bearing with me for sure. No.
Speaker 6: Ryan and I obviously both have full time day jobs,
Speaker 6: so sometimes his life takes us on the road. But
Speaker 6: just great to be here with you, Ryan, and hope
Speaker 6: you have a great rest of your week.
Speaker 4: We'll see who back here next week. I see everybody