1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy, we have an 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: episode that you're not in. 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 2: I know it was you asked me about whether it 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: would be okay to do this, and I was like absolutely, 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: even before you told me that the subject was Kurt Vonnegut, 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: And when you said that, I was like, I already 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 2: was on board with the idea of, you know, a 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: live episode with a guest host, because I will not 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: be at the event. But now that you've said Kurt 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: Vonnegut and that Brian Young is going to be the 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: co host, I am excited about it. 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Both Brian and I were penniless and guests Indiana 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Comic Con, and we talked a lot about Star Wars 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: things while we were there, but it occurred to us. 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: I think it was actually Brian's idea that kirv Vonneguet 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: is from Indianapolis and this kind of makes a lot 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: of sense, and so I was like, great, let's do that, 20 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: and we did. We also went to the Kur Vonneguet 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: Museum that morning before the show. Which was very moving 22 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: and wonderful. We'll talk about all that on behind the scenes. 23 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: Listen spoiler alert. I cried three times doing this episode. 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: Now is one of those times in life when I 25 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: really wish we had Kurt, and I'm also really glad 26 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: he's gone because I don't think he would enjoy the 27 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: world we're living in right now. But I'm really grateful 28 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: to Brian Young, who has been on our show before. 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: He was our first guest at a live show, so 30 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: this kind of felt very natural. And thank you to 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Indian a Comic Con as well for having us. There's 32 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: also a little heads up. There's what I didn't even 33 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: think of as a swear because my family didn't growing up, 34 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: but Tracy Flagg did as a swear because her family 35 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: would have, which was one of those great moments of like, oh, 36 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: how different worlds exist in the every day. It's pretty minor. 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: If you are a Kurt Vonnegut van, you probably already 38 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: know what the swear is. 39 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's from one of his famous quotes. It invokes 40 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 1: a deity, that's all. It's not not anything not anything big. 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: But if you are a parent or a teacher, you 42 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: may want to preview and make sure you know you're 43 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: cool with it or that you have a plan in 44 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: place to address that language with your kids. 45 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll also say that Kurt Vonnegut lived through 46 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: some pretty tough stuff. There are some real difficult moments 47 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: in this episode. 48 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, he for all his wit, that was clearly part 49 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: of how he coped with a lot of rough times 50 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: in his life. And be aware there is discussion not 51 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: only of some pretty horrific wartime events, but there are 52 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: also multiple discussions of suicide in it as well as 53 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: just incredible horrible loss. So just be aware of all 54 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: of that going in worthwhile in my opinion, to talk 55 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: about Kurt Vonnegut, who I will wax Rapsodic about on Friday. Hello, 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frye. 57 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 3: And I'm not Tracy V. 58 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: Wilson. 59 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 3: I'm Brian Young. 60 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Brian is a longtime friend of the show. He 61 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: was on our first live show ever ever about talking 62 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: about his book about Presidential Assassination for children, which is 63 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: pretty spectacular and I recommend you check it out if 64 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: it's still available. 65 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: It is, you can still get a children's illustrated History 66 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: of Presidential Assassination online or signed copies on my website 67 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: at swankmotron dot com. 68 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: Perfect, yeah, perfect, it is charming as I'll get out 69 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: so today because we're here in Indiana and in Indianapolis specifically, 70 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: Brian actually mentioned the idea of like, this is really 71 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: the time to talk about Kurt Vonnegut, who is someone 72 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: both he and I love and have bonded over over 73 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: the years, and he is, of course, you know, the 74 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: son of the city, as it were, we both grew 75 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: up with him. I think often when you hear people 76 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: talk about Vonnegutt and where they discovered him, it's usually 77 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: in their teenage years when they encounter an author, either 78 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: because it's recommended in school or because they just stumble 79 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: on it and it's finally an adult in the literature 80 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: space who is not feeding them bowl in any way. 81 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: It's very straightforward, and it is in some ways very 82 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: subversive in a way that's very appealing to teenagers. And 83 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: then if you're like me, you never mature and you 84 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: stick with it the whole time. Yeah. 85 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: Vonniguet was definitely someone I encountered as a teenager and 86 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 3: really latched onto. I found him in a banned books 87 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 3: club in high school, which seems so like you wouldn't 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 3: be able to get away with that today the way 89 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 3: you could, you know, twenty five more than twenty five 90 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 3: years sort of quaint now. And I've just always been 91 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: in love with his work, and for a long time 92 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 3: I was reading his entire life I library like every year, 93 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 3: and now revisiting it always feels like revisiting an old friend. 94 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: And I come to a lot of conventions here in Indiana, 95 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: Indianapolis specifically, and I always take that visit to the 96 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 3: Vonnegut Museum, which is within walking distance, And in fact, 97 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 3: Holly and I went this morning and took a visit 98 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 3: there and spent way too much to the museum. 99 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: Functionable amount of money in the museum shop chests. 100 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love. My favorite are the Kilgore Trout covers 101 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 3: that they have on the postcards. They're so lurid and ridiculous. 102 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: I love them. 103 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,119 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, without further ado, we are going to talk 104 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: about this amazing writer who we all love and his 105 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: life story. So, Brian, you want to kick it off, 106 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: I would love to so. 107 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: Vonnagut was born on November eleventh, nineteen twenty two, in Indianapolis, Indiana. 108 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: His father Kurt Senior was an architect, and the German 109 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: American Vonnegut family had been prosperous. Their fortunes shift though 110 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: when Kurt Junior was a teenager, as the Great Depression 111 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: played out, architecture projects were few and far between, and 112 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 3: the other family businesses faltered. The Vonneguts had sent Kurt 113 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 3: Junior's older brother and sister to private schools, but for him, 114 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 3: public school was the only option. His mother, Edith, who'd 115 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: been a high society debutante from a very wealthy family, 116 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 3: was deeply dismayed by their loss of financial stability, so 117 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 3: she tried to supplement the family's income by writing short stories, 118 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: mostly romances. Sadly that effort was for not as no 119 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 3: one was willing to buy them. 120 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, Kurt, Kurt Junior, that is, wrote for the high 121 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: school newspaper, and he actually credited that time as really 122 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: teaching him the basics of journalism and how to convey 123 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: stories and ideas very quickly and succinctly and incredibly clearly. 124 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: Ironically thinks that he would be kind of dinged for 125 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: later in life as not being florid enough as a writer. 126 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: But that's why I think young audiences really gravitate to him. 127 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: After high school, Vonneguet enrolled at Cornell University in Ithaca, 128 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: New York. In what may seem like a bit of 129 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: a surprising move, he majored in biochemistry. That was a 130 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: bad choice for him. He did not excel. 131 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: In nineteen forty three, Vonnegutt left school to enlist in 132 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 3: the Army. He'd been struggling at school. His journalism efforts 133 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 3: at the Cornell Sun were good, though they often caused controversy. 134 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: He ran criticism of the ROTC, of which he was 135 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: a member, which got him kicked out. He also wrote 136 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: articles suggesting that the school paper, in publishing patriotic writing, 137 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: was sharing propaganda. Then when he started school in his 138 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: junior year, as the editor of the Sun, he ran 139 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 3: a headline welcoming the classes of forty four and two thirds, 140 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: forty five and a fourth or whatever. The US had 141 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 3: joined the war in December nineteen forty one, following the 142 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: bombing of Pearl Harbor, and Vonnigut was making a nod 143 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: to the fact that many of his classmates were likely 144 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: to be called into service and die before finishing their 145 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 3: college careers. He got pneumonia in late nineteen forty two, 146 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: and that gave him a good excuse to leave school, 147 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: and so he did, and then he enlisted. 148 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: And he went to Fort Bragg for training. He brought 149 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: his typewriter with him to basic training, but it was stolen. 150 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: He was really good with weapons, so he got some 151 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: artillery training. But his aptitude tests got him more attention 152 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: because he was clearly very smart, and he was selected 153 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: to enter a mechanical engineering program that was supposed to 154 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: end up with him getting a degree and an officer's commission. 155 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: His grades in this program were kind of mixed, but 156 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: ultimately that did not matter because the program was shut 157 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: down before he could finish. 158 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 3: Kurt Junior decided to visit his parents in their new 159 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: place for Mother's Day nineteen forty four, and it was 160 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: a trip that would really change the family forever. Kurt Senior, 161 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: thanks to the war, had a steady income again working 162 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: in materials at various bases and facilities, and he designed 163 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 3: a new home from So and Edith and this home 164 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: in a quaint development in Marion County, Indiana. It was 165 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: contemporary and smaller than their previous home, but Edith did 166 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 3: not love it. It felt small and not just in size. 167 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: She was keenly aware of how her fortunes in life 168 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 3: had changed, going from an aristocratic it girl in Europe 169 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 3: to an unknown Midwestern housewife, and she was also very 170 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 3: unhappy about her son's choice to join the service. 171 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: On Mother's Day morning, during that visit, Edith was found 172 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: dead by Kurt's sister, Alice, who then went and got Kurt. 173 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: Edith had taken an overdose of sleeping pills. This was 174 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: not recorded officially as an intentional act. The coroner wrote 175 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: it up as an accident to avoid the stigma that 176 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: naturally goes along with death by suicide, but the family knew, 177 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: although there have over the years been some debates over 178 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: whether or not they were going to acknowledge this or not, 179 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: and Kurt Sr. Actually asked the paper to run his 180 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: wife's obituary. 181 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 3: This death really became a focal point for Vonnegut in 182 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: his writing and in his personal interactions. Biographer Charles J. 183 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 3: Shields noted of the writer, for the rest of his life, 184 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 3: he directed people's attention to the manner of his mother's death, 185 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 3: as if it were something they should know about him. 186 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 3: In Vonnegut's books, it's fairly easy to trace a line 187 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: from his own family tragedy to the way he writes 188 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 3: about mother's mothers occupy a strange narrative space for him 189 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 3: and tend to always be grappling with mental health issues. 190 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: He makes what certainly seems to be a reference to 191 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 3: his own mother's death in his nineteen seventy three book 192 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 3: Breakfast of Champions. This book, which we'll talk more about 193 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: in a moment, is told from the point of view 194 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 3: kil Or Trout, who's often described as being Vonnegut's fictional 195 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 3: alter ego, and in chapter seventeen, Kilbort Trout notes of 196 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 3: another character. Listen, Bunny's mother and mother were different sorts 197 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 3: of human beings, but they were both beautiful in exotic ways, 198 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 3: and they both boiled over with chaotic talk about love 199 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 3: and peace and wars and evil and desperation of better 200 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 3: days coming by and by, of worse days coming by 201 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: and by. And both our mothers committed suicide. Bunny's mother 202 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: ate Durino and my mother ate sleeping pills, which wasn't 203 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 3: nearly as horrible. 204 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: Vonnegut actually had very little time to mourn his mother. 205 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: The beaches of Normandy were stormed just a few weeks 206 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: after her death, and Kurt was called to active duty 207 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: shortly thereafter. Before he left, he proposed to his high 208 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: school sweetheart, who did not really give him any kind 209 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: of reply. That was Jane, and then that autumn he 210 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: was on a ship headed to Belgium. After two weeks 211 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: in Cheltenham, England, he and his Division one hundred and 212 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: sixth traveled across the English Channel by boat to La 213 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: Havre and then by truck into Belgium, where they were 214 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: brought to replace the second division that had been holding 215 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: the line against Germany's push. 216 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 3: Almost immediately, Vonnegut's division was subjected to the opening of 217 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 3: Hitler's Operation herbs Nabel or Operation Autumn Mist, which targeted 218 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 3: the Allies in Luxembourg and eastern Belgium. There was a 219 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: near constant mirage of fire. It was during this time 220 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: that Vonnegut realized, to his disillusionment, that the scouting reconnaissance 221 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 3: squad he was a part of was really just being 222 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 3: thrown into areas that might contain mines or hidden Nazi strongholds, 223 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 3: so they were totally expendable. During one of these scouting missions, 224 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: on December nineteenth, he was taken as a prisoner of 225 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 3: war He and his fellow prisoners walked for two days 226 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: under German guards until they were loaded into a box car, 227 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: which then traveled for another two days. It was one 228 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,479 Speaker 3: of several box cars carrying POWs. 229 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: As they moved deeper and deeper into German territory. The 230 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: box car and the others that it was connected to 231 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: were caught up in Allied bombing. The first instance of 232 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: this was at Limburg, which was heavily bombed by the 233 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: Allies right after the box car that Vonnegut and his 234 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: fellow soldiers were in was disco conted from its engine 235 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: and left behind. There were scores of fatalities among the 236 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: POWs as some fled the cars, only to run right 237 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: into the Allies line of fire. Over the next several days, 238 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: Vonnegut's group was moved along until finally reaching Muhlberg, where 239 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: they were processed. 240 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 3: The entire experience was horror after horror. Many of the 241 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 3: men were ill by this time, suffering from dysentery, malnourishment, 242 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: and frostbite. They don't witnessed more death in just a 243 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 3: few days than they can really even fathom, and many 244 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 3: were near death when they arrived at Muhlberg. But when 245 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 3: Vonnegut was given a postcard to send home, he told 246 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 3: his family his life is not bad at all and 247 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: asked them to send cigarettes. Meanwhile, his family had been 248 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: told Kurt Junior was Mia, and they presumed the worst. 249 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: Vonnegut was selected to be part of a work that 250 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: was going to be sent to Dresden to clear the 251 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: streets of rubble and do various factory work. Vonnegut was 252 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: also given the job of translator and foreman in this group, 253 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: as he spoke enough German to do so. These men 254 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: were housed in a converted slaughterhouse, and at one point 255 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: Vonnegut was actually court martialed by the Germans for insulting 256 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: a Nazi officer after he had abused a six pow. 257 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: Vonnegut was beaten and his foreman role was immediately taken away. 258 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 3: If you read his letter home that he wrote, he 259 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 3: talked about he was overheard telling the foreman what he'd 260 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 3: like to do to him in German. 261 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it was. 262 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 3: It was not pleasant. 263 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: No. 264 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 3: So on the night of February thirteenth, nineteen forty five, 265 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 3: the Allies began their bombing of Dresden. The POWs housed 266 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 3: in the slaughterhouse were moved into a basement as the 267 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 3: bombing destroyed the city in the morning. The one hundred 268 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: and fifty men one was a part of We're in 269 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: an odd situation. They'd survived, but much of Dresden had not, 270 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 3: and tens of thousands of casualties littered the streets of 271 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 3: the destroyed city. Vonnegut's work crew was tasked with clearing 272 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 3: the dead and cleaning up the city, salvaging what they could. 273 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: It was made clear that if anyone took anything for themselves, 274 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: they would be shot, so Vonnegut and his fellow POW's 275 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: had to dig graves and in some cases stack bodies 276 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 3: and set them ablaze. 277 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: As the war came to a close in the spring, 278 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: Vonnegut and his fellow POWs were eventually abandoned by their 279 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: German captors and left to sort of fend for themselves. 280 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: Kurt and several others were eventually traded for Soviet prisoners 281 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: that the Allies had captured, and Vonnegut, at this point, 282 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: like all of the men who had been captured, was 283 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: in really rough shape, not just mentally, but also he 284 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: was physically a mess. He was malnourished, and he was sickly, 285 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: but he did make it home. He got through the 286 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: forms that established him as no longer missing an action, 287 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: which was apparently a little bit of an ordeal, and 288 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: he was promoted to corporal. He also received a purple heart, 289 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: which sort of funnily enough, was for frostbite. And it's 290 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: just funny, given all of the things that he lived through, 291 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: that that's what he got his purple heart for. 292 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: You can go see it at the museum. They have 293 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 3: it on display at the museum. 294 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: He had started writing to his high school sweetheart Jane 295 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: again as soon as he was back in the US. 296 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: Jane had dated other people when the two of them 297 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: went to different colleges, and she was still sort of 298 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: playing the field. In his letters, Kurt was so cautious 299 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: to not assume that Jane was unmarried or single or 300 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: available to him, but she was, and they met up 301 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: in Washington, where Jane was living, and then they both 302 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: just by happenstance of scheduling, traveled to Indianapolis at the 303 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: same time, and once they were back home, Kurt proposed again, 304 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: and at that point the two were engaged. 305 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: Kurt always claimed that his war experience hadn't been that bad. 306 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 3: He was fine that family and friends shouldn't get emotional 307 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 3: over it, but it did eventually come out as writing. 308 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 3: Of course. In the interviews, his daughter said that they 309 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 3: never knew what he'd been through until they read Slaughterhouse Five. 310 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 3: He was only twenty two when he returned home. 311 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot to process if you think about it, right. 312 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: Your prefrontal cortex is not finished forming when you're in 313 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: your early twenties, and he had gone through an extraordinary 314 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: amount of trauma. But then in the post war nineteen forties, 315 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: Vonnegut tried to move on. He focused on his future 316 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: with Jane. They were married on September fourteenth, nineteen forty five, 317 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: and from the moment they became a married couple, Jane 318 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: really became the driving force of his writing career. She 319 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: was older than he was by a couple of years, 320 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: and she had finished college and she had a job 321 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: in the Office of Strategic Services before she accepted Kurt's proposal, 322 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: because women generally resigned from their work once they were 323 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: getting married, and that's what she did. Kurt was not 324 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: always the warmest spouse, but Jane supported him, and she 325 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: encouraged him to read more, starting with the Brothers Karamazov, 326 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: which she presented him during their honeymoon. The two of 327 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: them discussed literature and that was a big part of 328 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: their relationship, and while Kurt finished out his time in 329 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: the service, she also urged him to write, and he 330 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: would send all of the work that he did back 331 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: home and let her edit it. And he was very, 332 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: very deferential to her. He was like, do whatever you 333 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: want with it. You know better than I do. 334 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: The two of them also applied to the University of 335 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: Chicago and both were accepted. Kurt's school was paid for 336 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 3: by the GI bill and he was already writing short 337 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 3: stories with Jane's encouragement, but he also signed on for 338 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 3: an anthropology program that would take him right through to 339 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 3: a master's degree. The following year, Jane got pregnant dropped 340 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 3: out of her fellowship program. Vonnie get dropped out of 341 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 3: his anthropology program that summer after his thesis proposal was rejected, 342 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: and their son Mark arrived on May eleventh, nineteen forty seven. 343 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 3: His thesis proposal was really fascinating and I'm still mad 344 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: that they rejected it. His thesis for anthropology was that 345 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 3: he thought that the shapes of stories were as equally 346 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 3: interesting as the shards of pottery of any civilization. And 347 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 3: he created a method where you could chart the shape 348 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: of culture's stories. And I teach a lot of writing 349 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 3: classes and I use that a lot to help people 350 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 3: visualize how stories work. But he didn't end up getting 351 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 3: his degree until they accepted Cat's Cradle as his thesis 352 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 3: years years and years later. 353 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. After he left his program, he wrote for the 354 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: Chicago City News Bureau, which is something that he had 355 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: actually started while he was still in school, and he 356 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: started to think finally about getting his fiction published and 357 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: really focus on it. Money was really tight, though, and 358 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: soon it became very apparent that he was going to 359 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: need something dependable to bring in money to support Jane 360 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: and they're soon to be born son. So he turned 361 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: to his brother, Bernard, who was extremely famous in science circles. 362 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,239 Speaker 1: He was an accomplished atmospheric and environmental scientist and he 363 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: worked with General Electric. Bernard was able to get Kurt 364 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: a job as a publicist with the company. There's actually 365 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 1: a pretty interesting story here where during the interview, the 366 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: person that Kurt was interviewing with read on his application 367 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: in his resume that he had been in Dresden during 368 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: the bombing, and the man just looked up and said, 369 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I was one of those bombers, and he 370 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: got the job on the spot. I'm a little choked 371 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: up that job. Though he did not like it. He 372 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: had a moral issue with PR work, which I love, 373 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: because he just thought it was inherently deceitful and that 374 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: was not something he really liked. He also thought that 375 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: the field of science, which he had been excited to 376 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: write about the things that people were doing a ge 377 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: because a lot of scientists got to just kind of experiment, 378 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: was not being handled in a responsible way and it 379 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily for the betterment of mankind. 380 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: And its that discomfort with PR with GE that really 381 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 3: led him to pursue fiction writing as his full time job. 382 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 3: He started producing short stories and submitting them to publishers, 383 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 3: but there were a lot of rejections. Still, Jane was 384 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: his champion the whole time, and even wrote to publishers 385 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 3: herself to promote his work. The late nineteen forties were 386 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 3: very lean times, and then finally, not long after the 387 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 3: birth of their daughter Edith, in nineteen fifty, Collier's Weekly 388 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 3: published his short story report on the Barnhouse effect, but 389 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 3: a college professor who develops a sort of telekinesis and 390 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: is used by the government as a weapon. The story 391 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 3: is told by one of Professor Barnhouse's former students. Colliers 392 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 3: and other magazines needed short stories. They were very popular 393 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: with readers in the era before television became ubiquitous, so 394 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 3: he soon had a lot more work and started to 395 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 3: make good money. He'd promised himself that after he sold 396 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 3: five stories, he'd quit his GE job, which he did. 397 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 3: He and Jane then moved to Cape Cod in nineteen 398 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 3: fifty one. 399 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, he had this moment where he marveled that in 400 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: the course of just a couple months he had made 401 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: more money as a writer than he would make in 402 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: an entire year at GE. So he felt really bolstered 403 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: by his decision. 404 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: There was this interesting moment too, where he also felt 405 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 3: some shame because some of those were like he was 406 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 3: writing stuff for like Ladies home Journal, like I know 407 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 3: the one story that sort of based in his life, 408 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 3: Long Walk to Forever, Yeah, which was terrific. It's a 409 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 3: great story, and it's about that time he went back 410 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 3: home to sort of talk to Jane before he shipped 411 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 3: off to the war. He felt a lot shame about 412 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 3: that story and it being like that he'd lived a 413 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 3: moment in his life that would be in a lady's 414 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 3: glossy magazine. But it paid him well. 415 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Vonnegutt continued to turn out fiction and make 416 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: really good money for the first time in his life. 417 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: He published his first novel, Player Piano, in nineteen fifty two, 418 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: and this was a book that was informed by his 419 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: time at GE. It was something he could not have 420 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: written and published while he was there, or he would 421 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: have gotten fired. The plot is set in a mechanized 422 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: society where most human labor has been replaced by machines, 423 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: and society has split into the out of work laboring 424 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: class and the overseeing engineers, and it examines, among other things, 425 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: what happens to people when they have no immediate use 426 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: and no contribution of value to society. He got labeled 427 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: because of this as a science fiction writer, but that 428 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: was not a pigeonhole he especially liked, just because while 429 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: he had nothing against science fiction, he knew that other 430 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: people did not take it seriously as literature. 431 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 3: So there was a seven year gap between Claire Piano 432 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 3: and Vonnagut's second novel, The Sirens of Titan, which came 433 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 3: out in nineteen fifty nine, and during those seven years 434 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 3: there were a lot of changes in Vonnagautt's life. First, 435 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: his daughter, Nanette, was born in nineteen fifty four, than 436 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 3: his father, Kurt's died in the autumn of nineteen fifty seven, 437 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: And then in nineteen fifty eight, Kurt's sister, Alice, to 438 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 3: whom he was extremely close, was diagnosed with late stage 439 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: breast cancer. While she was in the hospital, her husband 440 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: Jim died suddenly in a train accident. Then, while the 441 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 3: family tried to shield Alice from this news, she found out. 442 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 3: Though there's a couple of different accounts about how she 443 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 3: found out. One is that a nurse gave her a 444 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 3: newspaper which mentioned the accident, and then the other is 445 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 3: that the family friend accidentally blurted it out. But regardless, 446 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: Alice was heartbroken, and she died two days after learning 447 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 3: about her husband's death. Kurt later said of his sister, quote, 448 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: she was the person I'd always written for. She was 449 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 3: the secret of whatever artistic unity I'd ever achieved. He'd 450 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 3: promised Alice that he would keep her four sons together, 451 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 3: and he moved all of them into the house with him, 452 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 3: Jane and their three kids. It became a wild and 453 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 3: boisterous home and the kids, as adults would note, the 454 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 3: Kurt was often grouchy with them and a little scary 455 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 3: at times, but he could be fun, but he was moody. 456 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 3: Jane was the one who kept it all together and 457 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 3: served as a primary caretaker for their huge crew. 458 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: Seven Kids is a lot of kids. Sirens of Titan, 459 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: which examines space and time travel, free will, and what 460 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: it means to try to outrun your destiny, was really 461 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: pretty well received by critics. It was a Hugo Award 462 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: finalist for nineteen sixty His follow up in nineteen sixty 463 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: one was his book Mother Night. And this is a 464 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: step away from science fiction, which he was becoming known for, 465 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: so it's a little risky. This is a fictional memoir 466 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: written by a Nazi propagandist while he awaits his trial 467 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: for war crimes. There's a spy twist in the work. 468 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: I almost don't want to say more because it's a 469 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: really fun narrative as it unfolds. And this story would 470 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: eventually be adapted into stage and screen, Like a lot 471 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: of Vonaget's subsequent work, including the nineteen ninety six films 472 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: starring Nick Nolty, which vonni Gett has a really beautiful 473 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: cameo in Is. 474 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 3: Really Good To See It. Nineteen sixty three saw the 475 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 3: release of Cat's Cradle, and this was inspired by the 476 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 3: Lab at ge where scientists had been allowed to experiment 477 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 3: for the sake of pure science. There's a frequently told 478 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 3: story that one of the scientists there suggested the idea 479 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 3: of water that solidified at room temperature to author H. G. 480 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 3: Wells when he visited the lab, but Wells never used 481 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 3: the idea. Vonnie get decided it was okay to use 482 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 3: it himself. He uses it as the concept of ice 483 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 3: nine to examine the ways that science can be weaponized. 484 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 3: He also introduced a fictional religion in the book called Bocanonism, 485 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 3: which involved a number of absurd practices. Some of the 486 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 3: vocabulary of this faux religion would also be used a 487 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,719 Speaker 3: decade later to name a collection of short story writings 488 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 3: by Vonnegut called Wampeters, Foma, and Grand Falloons. 489 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: The novel God Bless You, Mister Rosewater was released in 490 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, and it's in this book that Vonnegutt 491 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: introduces what has become known as his fictional alter ego, 492 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: Kilgore Trout. The name was a play on the name 493 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: of the science fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon. Trout appeared in 494 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: numerous books after this time. While he changed personality a 495 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: little bit and details give from book to book, he 496 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: was always a writer. And in Rosewater, Vonnegut wrote one 497 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: of his oftend quotes, which has spoken, this also gets 498 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: me choked up. I'm very weepy about kir Vonnagut this week, 499 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: you guys. This also gets me choked up. And it's 500 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: spoken in the book to a pair of infants by 501 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: the titular character, mister Rosewater, and he says, hello, babies, 502 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold 503 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded on 504 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: the outside. Babies, you've got one hundred years here. There's 505 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: only one rule that I know of babies, God damn it, 506 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: you gotta be kind. 507 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 3: After Rosewater, Vonneguant, who needed more money than his books 508 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 3: were making, he took a job teaching at the Iowa 509 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: Writers Workshop. This turned out to be a pivotal move 510 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 3: in his life. For the first time. He wasn't a 511 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 3: solitary writer typing out his books at home. He was 512 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: in the middle of a community of fellow writers, many 513 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 3: of whom would become lifelong friends. He published a collection 514 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 3: of short fiction titled Welcome to the Monkey House in 515 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, but the project he'd been working on 516 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 3: since his return from the war, finally after many, many, 517 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 3: many many drafts, was published as a result of the 518 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 3: work he did on it while in Iowa. 519 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, the outcome of Iowa is also one of those 520 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: kind of funny things in his life. Because he didn't 521 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: want to take a teaching job. He thought that was 522 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: like admitting defeat as a writer. But it turned out 523 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: to be really, really good for him, and that's why. 524 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty nine he published slaughter House Five, or 525 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: The Children Crusade, which took his already impressive status in 526 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: contemporary fiction to an absolutely new level. It was a 527 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller, it won a National Book Award 528 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: for Fiction, and it also made Kurt Vonneguet very famous, 529 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: very quickly. 530 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 3: Slaughterhouse Five was incredibly popular, but it was also incredibly 531 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 3: personal for Vonnegut. It's very clearly Vonnegult working through his 532 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 3: experiences in World War II. The narrative jumps around through 533 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 3: time and involves an alien race from the planet Charles Falmador, 534 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 3: but in its heart, it's Vonnaguet sharing his experiences in Dresden. 535 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: Even his main character, Billy Pilgrim, who he describes as 536 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 3: unstuck in time, is born the same year as Vonnegut 537 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 3: nineteen twenty two. He's also captured by the Germans in 538 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 3: World War two and survives the bombing of Dresden. Vonnegut's 539 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 3: nonlinear storytelling, which has Billy Pilgrim jumping from moment to 540 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 3: moment in his life, gives away all the details that 541 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 3: would normally be in a novel's final chapters. In the 542 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 3: early pages of the book. The narratives message is anti war, 543 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 3: and many of the characters are inspired by people he 544 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 3: knew during his time in service. All of the things 545 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: he could never talk about with family and friends, including 546 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: the trauma he felt, came out in the book. He 547 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 3: even has an appearance in the book. He's in the 548 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 3: box cars and is watching some of these horrors play out, 549 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 3: and it's interesting reading the book and seeing him watch 550 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 3: all of these horrors play out in third person, almost 551 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 3: like he's disassociating out of it. Well, Vonaguein always insisted 552 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 3: he was fine as these events were playing out in 553 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 3: his actual life. Billy's story shows how deeply they haunted 554 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 3: him decades later. 555 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. There's a moment in a documentary about 556 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: him where he talks about trying to share some of it, 557 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: like he had written some of it in his letter home, 558 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: but he tries to tell his family about one of 559 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: the things that happened, and he couldn't finish, and he 560 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: was like, I never talked about it again. Slaughterhouse five, 561 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: of course, made Vonneguet a critical and media darling and 562 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: a household name. There's a Great Life magazine feature on 563 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: him and his family. It's this full spread with pictures, 564 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: and it includes photos of his family and their home 565 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: and their beautiful pictures. Some of them are really really fun. 566 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: But all of that fame, ultimately, as fame often does, 567 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: led to his life blowing up. He moved from Cape 568 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: Cod to New York. The family stayed in Cape Cod, 569 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: and he and Jane split up. They had some fundamental differences, 570 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: including religion, that had come into sharp focus once their 571 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: kids were grown. And moved out, but he had also 572 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: met someone else. On the heels of his critically acclaimed novel, 573 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: Vonnaguet wrote a play titled Happy Birthday One to June, 574 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: and it was released in nineteen seventy one, and while 575 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: that play was in production, photographer Jill Krementz was assigned 576 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: to take pictures of him. 577 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 3: The end of Jane and Kurt's marriage was somewhat unusual. 578 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 3: They stayed in touch. Jane remained, according to her children, 579 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 3: very proud of Kurt's accomplishments and accolades. While she could 580 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: have easily become bitter over how played out, she seemed 581 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 3: to accept it move on, eventually remarrying. 582 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: Slaughterhouse five was optioned for film rights very soon after 583 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: its release because of its popularity, and the movie version 584 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: came out in nineteen seventy two, starring Michael Sachs as 585 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: Billy Pilgrim. The follow up to Slaughterhouse Five was greeted 586 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: with less enthusiasm. His nineteen seventy three book Breakfast of 587 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: Champions or Goodbye Blue Monday also has roots in Vonnaget's 588 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: real life, as he examined what it is to be 589 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: famous as a writer. In a world where cultural norms 590 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: and values are rapidly shifting. Kil Gore Trout is a 591 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: main character in this book, and it also echoes some 592 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: of his earlier themes of free will and social inequity. 593 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: Vonnegut also refers to himself in this book as a 594 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: writer narrator, sharing with the reader why he's doing some 595 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,239 Speaker 1: of the things he's doing with the story. This was, 596 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: despite its critical reception, actually a bestseller because at this 597 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: point the public adore Vonna Guet, but some of the 598 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: critics were really really harsh in the way they received it. 599 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 3: Slapstick or Lonesome No More was released in nineteen seventy six. 600 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 3: He dedicated the book to Laurel and Hardy, two men 601 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 3: that he felt had taught him that laughter was okay 602 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 3: even when things were tough those Slaughterhouse five is very 603 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 3: much considered to be as loose biography. He states in 604 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 3: the opening of Slapstick quote, this is the closest I'll 605 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 3: ever come to writing an autobiography. It's an autobiography of 606 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 3: his main character, doctor Wilbert Daffodil eleven Swain. Swain has 607 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 3: a sister, Eliza, and the siblings have been cut off 608 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 3: from the world because they are, according to Swain's account, 609 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 3: hideously ugly, but they're also uniquely powerful as a duo, 610 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: and they wish to help people form extended families to 611 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 3: eradicate loneliness. Critics didn't like it, and to be honest, 612 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 3: Vonnegaue did neither. In his book Palm Sunday, he sort 613 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 3: of gives as signs letter grades to all of his books, 614 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 3: and this is the only one he gave an F two. 615 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 3: And the movie adaptation that Jerry Lewis made is probably 616 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 3: one of the worst movies. I've ever seen it. 617 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: My entire life. 618 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 3: If you can find it, I had to buy a 619 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 3: bootleg from Australia and then and then make my computer 620 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 3: think it was Australian to watch it. It was a 621 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 3: big rigamarole because I couldn't find it in the US 622 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 3: at all. 623 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: That's the universe telling you not to watch that film. 624 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: That's actually you are not the first person who told 625 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 3: me that. But if you can find it, watch it 626 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 3: because it is it is a horror show. 627 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: Watch it because it's so bad. In nineteen seventy nine, 628 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: Kurt married Jill and they adopted an infant daughter named 629 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: Lily together and That pair stayed together for the rest 630 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: of Kirk Vonaget's life, although like any long term marriage, 631 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: it was not always smooth. That same year, Kurt published 632 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: the book Jail Bird, a memoir of a man recently 633 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: released from prison. It did better than Slapstick did with critics, 634 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: but it also marked the start of a run of 635 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: books that were seen as kind of okay rather than 636 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: brilliant in most critics eyes. So this includes that group 637 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: of books that are have Dead Eye Dick in nineteen 638 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: eighty two, Galapagos in nineteen eighty five, and another fictional 639 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: autobiography in nineteen eighty seven titled Bluebeard. 640 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 3: In his nineteen ninety book hocus Pocus, it offered up 641 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 3: the idea of a book crafted from scraps of paper 642 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: that had been found assembled according to the numbers written 643 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 3: on them by their author. Vonnegut said that he wanted 644 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 3: to prove that books could be written by anyone, and 645 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 3: so he alleged, and I've always wondered if this is 646 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 3: actually true, and he was handing like receipts and things 647 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 3: to his editor or not, but that anybody could write something, 648 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 3: and he was writing it on the backs of you know, 649 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 3: grocery bags and things like that, but who knows. It 650 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 3: features a recurrence of the trel Fammadorians. In nineteen ninety one, 651 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 3: Vonaget published a collection of essays titled Fates Worse Than Death, 652 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,919 Speaker 3: and in it he confessed that he'd tried to die 653 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 3: by suicide in nineteen eighty four. 654 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: Vonnegut's nineteen ninety seven book Timequake invokes the trouble that 655 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: he often had when grappling with a narrative and makes 656 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: it essential to the plot of the book. The conceit 657 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: of the story is that in two thousand and one, 658 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: everybody gets thrust backwards ten years to nineteen ninety one, 659 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: and they have to repeat those years all over again, 660 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: but exactly as they played out the first time. 661 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 3: The medicine to fix that book is great is just 662 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 3: Kilgore Trout running around yelling at people. You were sick, 663 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 3: but now you're well again. There's work to do. Vonnegut's 664 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 3: fiction offered political commentary often, but in two thousand and 665 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 3: five he produced a very overtly political book titled A 666 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 3: Man Without a Country, a Memoir of life in George W. 667 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 3: Bush's America. And this book was a surprise hit. I 668 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 3: don't know why. I was a surprise. I bought a copy, 669 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 3: and Vonnegut made the rounds of TV talk shows talking 670 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 3: about his disdain for the war in the Middle East. 671 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 3: He noted that when he saw images of young Iraqi 672 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 3: soldiers being marched with their hands on their heads as 673 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,399 Speaker 3: prisoners of war or he recognized the exact thing he'd 674 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 3: lived through in Germany, and he felt a brotherhood with them. 675 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: Even into his eighties, Bonneget retained his wonderful dark humor 676 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: In a lecture he gave it Case Western Reserve. In 677 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, he made an announcement, here's the 678 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 1: big news. I am suing Brown and Williamson Tobacco Company 679 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: of Louisville, Kentucky for billions. I hope and you lawyers 680 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: here those in law school will be interested in this case. 681 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: I think I have never smoked anything but Paul Mall 682 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,439 Speaker 1: since I was eleven years old. This is a Brown 683 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: and Williamson product on their package. For several years now. 684 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: They've promised to kill me, but I'm still alive eighty 685 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: one years old. Thanks a lot, you dirty rats. He 686 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: told this story on numerous occasions, including in an interview 687 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: with Rolling Stone a couple years later. I think that 688 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: came out in two thousand and six, and in that 689 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: version he claimed that he started smoking as a teenager 690 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: rather than at eleven. I don't know why he changed 691 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: that detail. He probably thought it was funnier that he 692 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 1: started working his later. I don't know, Like it's. 693 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 3: Interesting when you see his genesis of how he tells 694 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 3: stories in person. Yeah, it's always because he thinks he's 695 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 3: getting a funnier punch line out of it. 696 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 697 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: Something. It wasn't cigarettes that caused Vonnegut's death. It was 698 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 3: simply a fall. He'd fallen in his home in two 699 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 3: thousand and seven, sustained brain injuries, and he died on 700 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 3: April eleventh, two thousand and seven. 701 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: After his death, a renewed demand for his work led 702 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: to several new releases. In two thousand and eight, Armageddon 703 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: in Retrospect was released by his son Mark, and this 704 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: brings together both fiction and non fiction short form pieces 705 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: that examined the human propensity for war. 706 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 3: Two more books of previously unpublished short fiction came out 707 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 3: in the next several years. The first was Look at 708 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 3: the Birdie in two thousand and nine, and the second 709 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 3: was while Mortal's Sleep released two years later. 710 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: His final writing, which was an unfinished novel and only 711 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: a very small portion of one that he was working 712 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: on when he died, was published in twenty twelve in 713 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 1: a book that also included another novella that had never 714 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: been published. These two works together were titled We Are 715 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: What We Pretend to be. 716 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 3: Pertinent to where we are today. Vonnegut often said he 717 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 3: trusted his writing best when he sounded like a person 718 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 3: from Indianapolis. He also said of his body of work quote, 719 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 3: if you were to bother to read my books to 720 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 3: behave as educated persons would, you'd learn that they're not 721 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 3: sexy and do not argue in favor of wildness of 722 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,439 Speaker 3: any kind. They beg that people be kinder and more 723 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 3: responsible than they often are. 724 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: And that is Kurt Vonnegut, who we both clearly love. Yeah, 725 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: and I'd still get choked up over. Thank you once 726 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: again to Brian Young for doing that episode with me. 727 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: It was really really lovely to have him by my 728 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: side for it. He loves Kurt Vonneguet in much the 729 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: same way I do, and he is a wealth of 730 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: knowledge about him, so it was a perfect fit. 731 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 2: Do you have any listener mail before we wrap up. 732 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: No, all right, I will even say, since that was 733 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: kind of a juicy live show, I'm going to forego 734 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: listener mail this time around, and we will have some 735 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: next time around, I promise. Alrighty. If you would like 736 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: to write to the show though in the meantime so 737 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: you could potentially be a future listener mail, you can 738 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: do that at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You 739 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 1: can also subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app 740 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,919 Speaker 1: or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows. 741 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 2: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 742 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 743 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.