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Speaker 1: They're Happy Thursday, or should I call it Taco Thursday

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Speaker 1: For those of you who were a bit nervous about

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Speaker 1: what Trump is up to, the Taco Trump showed up

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Speaker 1: in Davos, and we can joke all we want about

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Speaker 1: the idea that Trump always chickens out. The fact of

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Speaker 1: the matter is he mostly always chickens out, and the

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Speaker 1: problem is we don't know when he is or isn't.

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Speaker 1: And the question is what do you take to the Bank.

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Speaker 1: It is interesting one of there are two things that

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Speaker 1: have happened in the last twenty four hours that easily

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Speaker 1: sway Donald Trump. One is the markets being the one

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Speaker 1: guard rail that has made him change course. The markets

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Speaker 1: collapsed on Tuesday due to fears of this trade war

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Speaker 1: with Europe, the trade deal by the way, that you

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Speaker 1: already suspended the ratification process of the larger deal that

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Speaker 1: was being negotiated, or one thought was already negotiated, just

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Speaker 1: waiting for the eyes to be dotted in the tees

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Speaker 1: to be crossed. But you had the massive move in

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Speaker 1: the markets. And then you have the fact that Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump doesn't want to let people down who he's speaking

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Speaker 1: to in person. And so if you're in Davos and

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Speaker 1: you heard Donald Trump say I'm not using force and

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Speaker 1: you know I'm dropping all the tariffs, well that's because

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Speaker 1: he wants to please the people who have his ear

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Speaker 1: in the moment. And it all will depend on who

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Speaker 1: has his ear at a given moment, at a given time,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes actually staff, when they're trying to manage his

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Speaker 1: crazy do try to put him within places or with

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Speaker 1: groups of people that they know will be a positive

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Speaker 1: influence on him. Versus a negative influence on him, right,

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Speaker 1: Like he's sort of in a weird way assimilates to

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Speaker 1: whatever the moment is. And he realized everything he was

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Speaker 1: doing was unpopular in Davos, so he wanted to lower

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Speaker 1: the temperature and then everybody would be happy with him,

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Speaker 1: because ultimately, he knows these people don't like him, so

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Speaker 1: the only way to make them like him is to

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Speaker 1: at least make them feel relief. So in that sense,

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Speaker 1: I think he made everybody at Davos feel relief, and

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Speaker 1: the European leaders can exhale a bit. But I will

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Speaker 1: tell you this, and it's why I spend so much

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Speaker 1: time on it in the previous episode, the Mark Carney

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Speaker 1: speech to Davos, really, I do think, is one that

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Speaker 1: isn't you know. It's not like he's going to retract

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Speaker 1: that sentiment. And Canada is already pursuing a go at

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Speaker 1: a loan strategy because they have no choice, and that's

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Speaker 1: the way they view this, and that's the way they

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Speaker 1: believe this. And I think, ultimately, you know, Donald Trump's

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Speaker 1: decision to pull back his rhetoric on Greenland, pull back

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Speaker 1: his threats on Greenland, doesn't mean he hasn't done with

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Speaker 1: that it. You know, it sounds like, you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the few European whisperers that can move Trump a

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Speaker 1: little bit is the current NATO head of NATO Secretary

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Speaker 1: General Mark Root, and he seemed to whatever he said

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Speaker 1: to Trump said we've got a great deal, and he

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Speaker 1: seems to imply it's a it. It's interesting as always,

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Speaker 1: you got to see the details. But it may be

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Speaker 1: that whatever it is, it's a it's it's just simply

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Speaker 1: granting the US the ability to do everything that they

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Speaker 1: already had the ability to do. But you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of like NAFTA, if you just change the name or

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Speaker 1: he gets to sign the agreement, then it looks like

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Speaker 1: he did something. So sometimes that gambit works. We've got

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Speaker 1: a great deal for you, and it's the same deal,

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Speaker 1: but you get to sign it, mister president. Right, that's

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Speaker 1: what the US MCA. It is just NAFTA three point zero,

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Speaker 1: except they change the name and gets it. It goes

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Speaker 1: to And this is where you know, he is both

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Speaker 1: an easy mark and a frustrating mark. Right, He's an

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Speaker 1: easy mark if you flatter him, and you you you know,

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Speaker 1: offer him a trinket or offer him naming rights. Or

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Speaker 1: offer him you will nobody's ever done this before type

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Speaker 1: of mindset, so uh, I can't wait to see the

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Speaker 1: details here. But this has the the whiff of they're

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Speaker 1: just cutting and pasting the exact same treaty that gave

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Speaker 1: the United States everything that they already had in their

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Speaker 1: abilities on greenlent. But this time Donald Trump signs the agreement,

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Speaker 1: so therefore it's a new agreement. That's the most likely

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Speaker 1: place we're headed there, but it is a longer you know,

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Speaker 1: you know who the biggest group of exhalers are here

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Speaker 1: are Senate Republicans because they're scared, you know what, in

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Speaker 1: having to exercise any sort of check on him. And

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Speaker 1: you know which is why Donald Trump is not backed

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Speaker 1: off on making sure he's going to endorse against anybody

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Speaker 1: that did him wrong. Right. That's why Bill Casts is

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Speaker 1: on the wrong end of a Trumpet endorsement in the

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Speaker 1: Louisiana Senate race. That's to send a message to the

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Speaker 1: other fifty two Republican elected US senators that at any

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Speaker 1: moment in time, he wants all of them to feel

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Speaker 1: as if they constantly owe him their political careers. Some

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Speaker 1: of them actually do right, some of them wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: United States senators wouldn't be I mean Tommy Tupperville, Right,

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Speaker 1: here's a guy that you would have no political career

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Speaker 1: without Donald Trump. And so that's the kind of loyalty

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Speaker 1: he's trying to instill so that they will do his bidding.

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Speaker 1: And so that's why in some ways he's got to

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Speaker 1: follow through on his threats to these other Republicans, no

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Speaker 1: matter if it weakens the Republican Party in the long term,

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Speaker 1: weakens their ability to be a government, to be seen

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Speaker 1: as a governing force if he wants to what he

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Speaker 1: really wants, which is loyalty here, So like with anything

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Speaker 1: with Trump, right, he escalates, he de escalates, but he

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Speaker 1: hasn't necessarily given up that ambition. And there's all sorts

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Speaker 1: of factors driving this ambition there, you know, ultimately leaving

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Speaker 1: a mark. He is desperate to be historically relevant. Well, congratulations,

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Speaker 1: you'res he's going to be historically relevant. Whether he's historically

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Speaker 1: relevant for the reasons he wants to be or if

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Speaker 1: he's historically relevant for other reasons is the open question here.

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Speaker 1: But he is that clearly is one of the drivers here.

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Speaker 1: And look, Greenland looks so big on a map, and

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Speaker 1: he wants to be able to you know, project strength,

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Speaker 1: right he he he sees some of this stuff as

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Speaker 1: symbolic and he needs that symbol in some ways to

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Speaker 1: make them to appease him on these things. But so

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Speaker 1: he's back down from this. But the longer term damage

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Speaker 1: has been done because of what we're already witnessing with Canada,

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Speaker 1: what we're already witnessing with the EU. They're going to

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Speaker 1: do their own trade deals now, They're not going to

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Speaker 1: worry about the United States. And some of you may say, well,

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Speaker 1: great Europe relied on the United States too much. There's

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Speaker 1: some in Europe that believe Europe relied on the United

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Speaker 1: States too much. I think in fifty years we're going

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Speaker 1: to look back and the EU is going to be

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Speaker 1: a real competitor on a number of things. And then

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Speaker 1: we're going to wonder, boy, why did we prop up?

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Speaker 1: You know, we made the EU fend for itself and

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Speaker 1: suddenly the EU is eating our lunch type of thing. Right,

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Speaker 1: if that happens in fifty years, but I think we

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Speaker 1: may make Europe great again. We may end up forcing

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Speaker 1: the EU to have a strong military. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think he cares whether NATO survives or not, And as

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Speaker 1: long as Donald Trump's calling the shots, I don't think

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Speaker 1: NATO is a relevant organization because he is not going

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Speaker 1: to I don't think he will abide by the terms

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Speaker 1: of the treaty if it's not something that he's leading

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Speaker 1: the charge on. If Estonia wants the US help in

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Speaker 1: dealing with Russia, I think Estonia realizes it's going to

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Speaker 1: have to talk to other NATO members. The United States

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Speaker 1: might not be the one that steps up. And that's

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Speaker 1: still a long term concern. So while we have a

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Speaker 1: been appeased short term, and some of you conspiracy theorists

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Speaker 1: out there, you know, maybe wondering, boy, who is it

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Speaker 1: that gets rich off of this stock market guard rail

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Speaker 1: stuff that takes place? Right Trump says something, Kaka Maimi

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Speaker 1: says something stupid, the markets react quickly. But there's always

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Speaker 1: you know, people that are making money off of this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and essentially by trading the crazy, right, by trading off

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Speaker 1: the crazy because maybe they have some inside information on

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Speaker 1: that stuff. So you may end up quewing some of

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Speaker 1: the conspiracy there because some of you may have seen

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Speaker 1: your four to one case. You know, we still lost

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Speaker 1: more money than we got back collectively in the stock

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Speaker 1: market on a one day note. But there's always somebody

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Speaker 1: making money when you see these wild swings, and it's

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Speaker 1: usually insiders that are making that kind of money. But

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Speaker 1: here we are. That's, you know, I guess pulling back

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Speaker 1: on this crisis. We will now see a little bit

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Speaker 1: of focus, probably on some other issues a bit. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think this changes the trajectory of whether other

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Speaker 1: countries want to do business with the United States. It

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Speaker 1: is he is making it very difficult to sign any

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Speaker 1: deal with the United States because he doesn't necessarily want

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Speaker 1: to abide by any agreement or be pinned down by

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Speaker 1: any agreement. But the big lesson still is the guardrail

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Speaker 1: that works, and the one that works the most consistently

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Speaker 1: is the stock market, for better or for worse. So

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Speaker 1: who knows, maybe the stock market there'll be some way

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Speaker 1: that the stock market reacts to one of these ice

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Speaker 1: raids in a way that gets his attention to realize

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Speaker 1: he's got a problem there. And speaking of that issue,

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Speaker 1: my guest today is the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fry

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Speaker 1: hopped on for about thirty minutes with me on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about everything about the current situation there,

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Speaker 1: the so called sanctuary city status, whether cooperation, what that means,

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Speaker 1: what it doesn't mean, and whether there's any sort of

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Speaker 1: dscal that can take place, the status of the investigation

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Speaker 1: in the state and local level into the death of

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Speaker 1: Renee Good, as well as whether he is asked for

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Speaker 1: the governor to call up the National Guard. So it

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Speaker 1: is amazing when you think about it, that there are

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Speaker 1: five times as many ICE agents in Minneapolis as there

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Speaker 1: are our local law enforcement. That strikes as excessive. And

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Speaker 1: it does feel as if Minneapolis is being targeted for

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Speaker 1: politics rather than being targeted because it is high in

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Speaker 1: the list. Right. You know, if this is a real

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Speaker 1: concern where the largest amount of undocumented immigrants are in

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Speaker 1: the country, it is not Minneapolis. It is nowhere close

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Speaker 1: to Minneapolis. This feels like this is about optics, and

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Speaker 1: this is about trying to weapony anger or skepticism about

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Speaker 1: Somali Americans. So we get into that conversation, I think

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Speaker 1: it's worth a listen, so I hope you will do that.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to Jacob Fry, you know, Trump's

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Speaker 1: been sort of putting us through the ringer, and I

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm still concerned that all of his actions,

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Speaker 1: these unilateral actions, are going to trigger you know, political

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Speaker 1: physics is a bitch because for every action, there is

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Speaker 1: going to be an equal and opposite reaction. And that

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Speaker 1: how concern should be that he stumbles stumbles us into

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Speaker 1: some sort of war, because trade wars turn into military

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Speaker 1: conflicts quicker than people realize. And it's still this is

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Speaker 1: still to me a top concern. And that's why my

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Speaker 1: friend I and Bremmer put the United States and in

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Speaker 1: some ways, Donald Trump's leadership in the United States as

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Speaker 1: the top risk for the globe in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: I think these first twenty two days of the year

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Speaker 1: have proven that that is a pretty prophetic decision by

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Speaker 1: putting the United States and Donald Trump's leadership is the

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Speaker 1: top risk for twenty twenty six. But hey, I'm a

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Speaker 1: political junkie at heart, which means and I know some

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Speaker 1: of you got to know me more as a campaign nerd,

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Speaker 1: whether it was at the Hotline or whether it was

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Speaker 1: the work I did at NBC. And we've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of we've had a lot of action. I devoted

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Speaker 1: my top five list to what's going on in Senate

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Speaker 1: races and sort of where do the Democrats' chances stand?

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Speaker 1: I think Democrats, I think, you know, it's funny. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those issues with the where if you look

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Speaker 1: at the political landscape from sixty thousand feet, you're like, boy,

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Speaker 1: a big wave is brewing. This is how this is

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Speaker 1: one of those times where the out party's going to

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Speaker 1: win everything. They're going to win the House in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: When you look at it race by race, I can't

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Speaker 1: get there, right, I have a hard time getting to

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Speaker 1: the net four seat pickup four Democrats to pick up

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Speaker 1: the Senate. And yet if you pull the lens back,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh wow, this national political environment says X.

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Speaker 1: So look, a lot of this is going to depend

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Speaker 1: on candidate recruitment. Some of this is going to depend

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Speaker 1: on what kind of primary results take place. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think in the same way that the so called

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Speaker 1: red wave that never happened in twenty twenty two, part

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Speaker 1: of that was a Donald Trump issue, right. He endorsed

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Speaker 1: unelectable candidates in a lot of places, including in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 1: What could have been a good Republican Knight turned into

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Speaker 1: basically barely acceptable Knights, and say narrowly got the House,

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Speaker 1: but they couldn't, you know, but they couldn't get everything.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's a possibility with the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: that they have primaries in Texas and Michigan and in Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: and I want to talk about it here in Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: where if the either wrong nominee or the atmosphere of

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Speaker 1: the primary creates a situation where no matter whoever comes

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Speaker 1: out of the primary, it's a divided party and they

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Speaker 1: have a hard time uniting. That could easily hold the

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Speaker 1: party back in its ability to win general elections because

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Speaker 1: simply they either had a messy primary or the wrong

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Speaker 1: candidate got the nomination. And that brings me to Minnesota

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Speaker 1: that I think the most interesting New Canada the last

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours if you're a sports fan, is Michelle Tafoya.

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Speaker 1: She's a former NBC sports reporter. Was on the original

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Speaker 1: I think Sunday Night football team there when it was

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Speaker 1: Michaels and Madden. I think even before collins Worth, it

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Speaker 1: was Michelle tafoyah And she's been thinking about ever since

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Speaker 1: she left esp left NBC and then I think she

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Speaker 1: worked at ESPN as well. She's been hinting at the

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Speaker 1: idea that she was open to running for office. She's been,

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Speaker 1: she is. She is certainly certainly expressed sort of more

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Speaker 1: on the on the conservative media side of things, skeptical

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Speaker 1: of sort of mainstream media a bit, and skeptical of

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Speaker 1: that more on the culture. Less on policy. We've not

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Speaker 1: I've not heard a lot from her own policy. I've

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Speaker 1: heard more on the woke vibe and that aspect of

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Speaker 1: conservative politics. So I will tell you that in Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: to win, you you got to also be a policy

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Speaker 1: nerd to the Minnesota voter. Minnesota turns out in big numbers,

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Speaker 1: number one, number two. It's just a very it's just

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Speaker 1: a it's a very educated electorate, and so you, no, Matt,

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Speaker 1: You've got to show up knowing your stuff. But they're

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Speaker 1: very open to outsiders. And I think in any other campaign, yere,

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Speaker 1: I think Michelle Tafoya would be we'd be talking about

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Senate as a hirrant. I just think in this

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Speaker 1: current national environment, she's swimming uphill. Minnesota is a.

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Speaker 2: State that.

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Speaker 1: Is a lean blue state that wants to be a

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Speaker 1: swing state, and it's certainly been, you know, and Republicans

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Speaker 1: have been. It's a little bit of Lucy with the football.

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Speaker 1: You know, they've occasionally won a governor's race, they occasionally

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Speaker 1: win a Senate race, but you know, it's been Richard

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Speaker 1: Nixon's the last presidential candidate to carry the state in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. Even in the forty nine state landslide

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Speaker 1: of Ronald Reagan, Minnesota Walter Mondale's home state was the

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Speaker 1: loan holdout for Ronald Reagan in eighty f for so

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Speaker 1: Nixon McGovern was the last time Minnesota voted voted Republicans. So,

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Speaker 1: but there's a pretty messy primary in the Minnesota Senate

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Speaker 1: race between the Lieutenant governor, Peggy Flanagan, who's been endorsed

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Speaker 1: on the progressive side of things. You've got Angie Craig,

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Speaker 1: who is I think the preference of sort of the

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Speaker 1: establishment wing of the party, the Schumer wing of the party.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we'll see how that plays out. Primaries

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Speaker 1: in Minnesota have tended to favor base candidates both left

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Speaker 1: and right. They've historically had convention processes that have that

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Speaker 1: have actually hamstrung Republicans in the past because their convention

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Speaker 1: process will nominate somebody that's too conservative to win. But

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Speaker 1: they do both you can go through an endorsement process

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Speaker 1: through the state party, and then you can also end

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Speaker 1: up on the ballot. And you know, when you look

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Speaker 1: at the candidates Tim Peleni, Norm Coleman who have won

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Speaker 1: statewide races, they have been sort of center somewhere, not

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Speaker 1: on every issue, but seen as close to the center

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Speaker 1: on something. Norm Coleman was definitely more centrist on social issues.

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Speaker 1: I think Tim Plenny on economic issues he was the

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Speaker 1: original sort of he was. There was something called a

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Speaker 1: Walmart I think he was starting Walmart Conservatism. He was

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Speaker 1: sort of talking about this before Donald Trump came along,

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Speaker 1: talking about, Hey, we've got to we've got to change

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Speaker 1: our talking about the Republican Party, change our connections to

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Speaker 1: corporate America because there's a working voter here is culturally

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Speaker 1: conservative who doesn't feel like we're looking out for them economically.

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Speaker 1: So the point being is conventional conservative Republican doesn't win

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Speaker 1: in Minnesota. You got to be a little bit different somewhere.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to be curious to see there. But look,

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Speaker 1: she's got high name ID and in a neutral political environment,

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Speaker 1: I think we'd be talking about this as a really

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Speaker 1: you know, hey, Republicans have put Minnesota in play. I'm

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Speaker 1: a bit skeptical, especially with what's going on right now

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Speaker 1: with the political environment there that it's polarized things Ice

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Speaker 1: is very unpopular. How this has been done is very unpopular.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see. But I think she's banking on when

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Speaker 1: you see her announcement video, I think she's banking on

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Speaker 1: unpopularity of Tim Wall's unpopularity of the state leadership that

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Speaker 1: she hopes can help her in there. But it's a look.

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Speaker 1: Minnesota is one of those it sort of I've talked about.

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Speaker 1: There are states that Democrats are hoping to move from

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Speaker 1: red to purple, like Texas or a Kansas or maybe

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Speaker 1: in Iowa again, and then there are states that Republicans

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Speaker 1: are trying to get from blue to purple, right, and

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Speaker 1: that's Minnesota. New Mexico's on that list. I think they're gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the post Trump era, Virginia and Colorado

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Speaker 1: may get put back on that list. So I'd put

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Speaker 1: Minnesota in there as sort of you know, in the

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Speaker 1: same way. I still think the Republicans got to be

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Speaker 1: in a net positive national environment to then do well

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Speaker 1: in Minnesota. But there's got to be some real money

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Speaker 1: and if the Democratic primary gets messy, we'll see. But

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Speaker 1: she's got to go up against the candidate that got

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Speaker 1: the nomination last time, which was a former basketball player

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Speaker 1: named Royce White, who is a little bit out there.

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Speaker 1: In fact, his candidacy was so out there in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four when he was challenging Amyklobashar that National Republicans

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Speaker 1: didn't want to get near him, didn't want to touch him.

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Speaker 1: But he's you know, he's he kind of has played

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Speaker 1: the MAGA influencer game a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's got his own deep, it may not

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Speaker 1: be broad, but deep support among some parts of the

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Speaker 1: Minnesota conservative movement. And he's still running. But Tafoya's got

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Speaker 1: the endorsement of all the establishment. I would assume Trump

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Speaker 1: comes in. He loves stars, right, especially that are adjacent

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Speaker 1: to sports. So I'm sure she'll get the Trump endorsement

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Speaker 1: at some point, which should get him there. So in general,

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Speaker 1: look the Senate battlefield right now. You know every cycle

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Speaker 1: that eventually expands somewhere in the ten to twelve seat arena, right,

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Speaker 1: You've got we know, we know North Carolina, Maine, those

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Speaker 1: are no matter what, those are going to be close

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Speaker 1: unless Susan Collins chooses not to run. It's interesting. I've

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Speaker 1: made a big deal about the fact that we haven't

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Speaker 1: gotten to the filing deadline. It's not lost on me

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Speaker 1: that the the big Republican super pac that John Thune,

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Speaker 1: the Senate Republican leader controls, went public to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: look at all this money we're putting together to defend Maine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost like we're going to go public

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Speaker 1: to rear their do everything they can to reassure her

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Speaker 1: that they're in because guess what if she doesn't run,

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Speaker 1: Maine is off the board. So there's a part of

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Speaker 1: me that views the big pr announcement about their dedication

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Speaker 1: of nearly fifty million dollars that they're ready to spend

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Speaker 1: already of outside money to help Susan Collins is as

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Speaker 1: much about trying to make sure she files. Because in

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Speaker 1: this political environment, I go back, I look at her numbers,

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Speaker 1: it would not shock me if she chose to say,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm out. I can't do this, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially if just as she gets close, somehow Trump pulls

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Speaker 1: the rug out from under her. And that's the part

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Speaker 1: of the seat. It's tough when you want to run

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Speaker 1: your own campaign when you know you probably aren't able

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Speaker 1: to run your own campaign. This episode of the Chuck

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435
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437
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Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. Speaking of Trump, Julia let Low,

438
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: I've talked about the Cassidy race in in Louisiana, Julia

439
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: let Low officially announce and I have to say, and

440
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: a few things jumped out at me about both the

441
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: announcement and then the immediate non announcement from the NRSC

442
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: and the Senate Republican LEADERSHI team. The first thing is

443
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: what Julia Letlow said in her announcement video, which included

444
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: the following line, a state as conservative as ours, we

445
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to wonder how our senator will vote when

446
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: the pressure is on. Huh. This is basically saying we

447
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: shouldn't have a senator think for themselves. We should know

448
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: that whatever the president wants, is this how this senator

449
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: is going to vote. She didn't quite say it, but

450
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: she kind of said it, right. It's her way of

451
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: trying to remind Republican voters. Hey, Bill Cassidy wasn't there

452
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: for Trump when Trump needed him. Now, look, Louisiana's not

453
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: a swing state. There is no you know, Democrats did

454
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: not get John Bell Edwards. That was what Schumer was

455
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: trying to do. The former governor, the last Democrat to

456
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: be able to show that he could win statewide. Was

457
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: trying to get him to consider maybe he's trying one

458
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: more time to do this, but with no fear of

459
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: a Democratic challenge here. The Senate Republican Leadership Fund right

460
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: SLF has said they're not getting involved, So they're not

461
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: going to help Bill Cassidy. Right, they're going They're they're

462
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: doing everything they can to help John Cornyn in his primary.

463
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: They have said they are not going to get involved

464
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: in helping Bill Cassidy. What kind of message does that

465
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: send to other Senate Republicans. I was stunned when I

466
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: saw that that right now, I mean, this is what

467
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: punch Bowl reported the Republican leaders have been quiet since

468
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: Trump's endorsement, and that the NSC Senate battlefield doesn't include

469
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: Louisiana and SLF isn't expected to get involved in the race.

470
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: That is a totally Bill Cassidy, You're on your own.

471
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: We are cutting you loose, Which brings me to a

472
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: decision that I think he's he claims he's going to

473
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: stay in the race. We'll see. I think if he

474
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: wants to win this Senate seat, there's only one path

475
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: to winning Senate seat, and it's to run as an independent.

476
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: It is to pull a Lisa Murkowski and just say hey,

477
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: I ain't running in the primary, but I want all

478
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: voters because the state, you know, again, this used to

479
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: be Louisiana used to hold very small d democratic primary elections.

480
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: Everybody voted in the primary. Top two if nobody received

481
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: fifty percent, would meet in a runoff. If you will,

482
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: it was basically an all party general election. They changed

483
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: the rules specifically to make sure Cassidy had to face

484
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: Republicans only in a primary. This was all done since

485
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: he voted to convict Trump after January sixth. You know,

486
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: it was the same thing that was essentially orchestrated to

487
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: do with Lisa Murkowski. And I'll go ahead and run

488
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: as a ride in. And I've always said, you know,

489
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: you know how how untouchable she is m u r Kowski.

490
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: She won as a ride in, and her last name's Murkowski.

491
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: It won't smith, right, that's how politically powerful she is

492
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: in her own in the state of Alaska. So we'll

493
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: see what happens there. There's been no hints I've like,

494
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: I've told you the only hints I've ever gotten about

495
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: Cassidy being intrigued about running as independent is when he

496
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: flirted a bit with the no Labels crowd when they

497
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: were looking for a presidential candidate in twenty four I

498
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: think he took a call. I don't necessarily think he

499
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: reached out to ask questions. I think he just accepted

500
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: an outreach and certainly heard some people out. But if

501
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: there are a lot of Senate Republican incumbents I think

502
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: who quietly hope Cassidy doesn't back down and that he

503
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: doesn't just allow himself to be the the Washington Generals

504
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: to the Harlem Globe trouters in a primary, but instead

505
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: really do that. And it's look, his only chance is

506
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: if he can expand the electorate. And the only way

507
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: he can expand the voting electorate is if he gets

508
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: out of the of the Republican primary. So we shall see.

509
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: There a few other campaign notes. I think our friend

510
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: Paul Finebaum, mister Alabama SEC promo, the unofficial promoter of

511
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: SEC football for ESPN, I kid Paul if he's still

512
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: considering running for the US Senate in Alabama, he just

513
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: he's in trouble because Donald Trump has now picked the candidate.

514
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: So with Donald Trump's decision to endorse Barry Moore, the

515
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: congressman in that primary, even though a recent poll actually

516
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: had him in second, not in first, I you know,

517
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: I wonder if that if that changes. I think fine

518
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: Baum thought that again a little bit of a sports celebrity,

519
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: that that might get the President's attention. Maybe he did

520
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: do some outreach and they weren't interested. It was, you know,

521
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: in that in that brief period where fine Bomb was

522
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: trying to establish his credentials as a conservative Republican, he

523
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: said he claimed he voted for Trump and then he

524
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: was a Trump supporter, So clearly he was putting up

525
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: the trial balloon to see if he would get any

526
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: sort of feedback the other way. We'll find out filing

527
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: deadline soon, so we'll get there. But it's interesting that

528
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: Trump's already endorsed. Fine Bomb's not even being tested anymore.

529
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: So I know he hasn't officially announced that he's out

530
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: because calshe still has his has the You can still

531
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: trade on whether fine bamb is going to run or not.

532
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: But if you just.

533
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: Look at the inaction, fine Baum himself had said he

534
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: would wait till after the college football playoff and his

535
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: ESPN duties were done for this season before fully contemplating this,

536
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: So we'll see if that has changed at all. Two

537
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: other notes that I've been wanting to get to but haven't.

538
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: Twelve states applied to be first in the nation for

539
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: the Democrats in twenty twenty eight, and I thought I'd

540
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: quickly go through them. Out of the West, it was

541
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 1: Nevada and New Mexico out of the South, Georgia, North Carolina,

542
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: South Carolina, Tennessee, in Virginia, out of the midwest, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan,

543
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: and out of the east, New Hampshire and Delaware all

544
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: want to be part of the first four, the early

545
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: early process to get into the early window where you

546
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: would get a variety of candidates. Here, look, it's not

547
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: looking good for Iowa. As many of you know, I'm

548
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: a huge proponent that Iowa of all of the potential

549
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: first in the nation states that want to get back

550
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: that they ought to just go back to Iowa, that Iowa.

551
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: Last time I checked, Iowa was the launching pad for

552
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: Barack Obama. So I've always thought the dumbest argument against

553
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: Iowa is that Iowa's too white, and considering all of

554
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: the problems the Democratic Party has in reaching out to

555
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: rural America, because what rural America is white. So if

556
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: you are immediately sending the message to oh, you know,

557
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: we don't want a rural state that's too white, well

558
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: you're you're basically just sent a message to all of

559
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: rural America outside of the rural blacks in the South

560
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: and rural Hispanics in the Southwest, that you're not interested

561
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: in their vote, And I just think it's a it's

562
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: a it's been a terrible way this has been messaged.

563
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: The Time story that had it, it's like just a

564
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: they have they have got to recalibrate. Uh, if you

565
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: say you don't want caucus systems, say that, but you

566
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: better come up with a better reason than Iowa's just

567
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: too white. Because if you're a political party and you've

568
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: decided that, you know, you can't participate in certain regions

569
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: because of demographic makeup, then you're just conceding defeat and

570
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: you don't want to be a national political party. So look,

571
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: do I think Iowa's uphill? I do, even though the

572
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: irony is that Iowa. You know, if you're progressive, if

573
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: it wasn't for Iowa, Bernie Sanders wouldn't be relevant. If

574
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: you're a Barack Obama fan, if it wasn't for Iowa,

575
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: Barack Obama might not have been President of the United States.

576
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: Iowa's been pretty good to the Democratic Party. Without Iowa,

577
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have, you know, had a Jimmy Carter. So

578
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: it's a head scratcher to me, the anger at Iowa

579
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: that's there. I think it's just a if you want

580
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: my opinion, there's a lot of former Clinton staffers ias

581
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: never been good to the Clintons. Right when Bill Clinton

582
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: ran in ninety two, an Iowa Democrat named Tom Harkin

583
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: was running, so he skipped Iowa. When Hillary Clinton, obviously

584
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: her candidacy got up ended in two thousand and eight

585
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: because she lost Iowa and then she almost you know,

586
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: it all depends on who you talk to in twenty sixteen,

587
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: did she win Iowa lose Iowa? Fact is, we're not

588
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure. But again Iowa put Bernie Sanders

589
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: on the map. So I've always thought the residual anger

590
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: at Iowa is due to UH staffers and strategists who

591
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: were all with who were all working for Clinton, who

592
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: also are our big have a lot of influence inside

593
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: the d n C, who are just mad that Iowa

594
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: didn't go the way they wanted to go. But it's

595
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: been surprising to me that some of the Obama era

596
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: folks haven't fought harder to defend Iowa or to promote Iowa.

597
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: But if you're not going to do Iowa, you're going

598
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: to need a rural state to be first, And you know,

599
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: you start to look at this list, New Mexico jumps

600
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: out at me as I think a fascinating potential. First

601
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: in the nation, there's a there's a I do think

602
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: there's actually some ideological diversity. Rural New Mexico definitely has

603
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: a red lean to it. The second congressional district, which

604
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: is the most rural part rural district of the three districts,

605
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: there is a swing district, and so yeah, I think

606
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 1: there's something. You know, My only concern about New Mexico's

607
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: first is that, you know, if you can and win Albuquerque,

608
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: you can win the state. Right. I don't think it's

609
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: ever good, you know. I think that's the knock on

610
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: Nevada that ultimately, if you can win Vegas, you win

611
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: the you win the caucuses. You don't want to. I

612
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: don't know if that's a good test, right. You know,

613
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: the way the Iowa system works is you can't just

614
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: win to Moine and win the state. Trust me, Hillary

615
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: Clinton tried it twice and it didn't work, and that's

616
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: what I think made it a bit more of a

617
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: better test. But that jumps out at me. I think

618
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: the fact that Georgia, it's interesting that Georgia North Carolina

619
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: and Virginia. Right, these are two swing states and one

620
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: former swing state that is now leaning blue. I think

621
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: the downside of Virginia's Northern Virginia right, too many professional

622
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: voters in that it might get a little insidery and

623
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: all of that. So that probably is a knock on Virginia.

624
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: And North Carolina might simply be too expensive, although I

625
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: like the diverse city the geographic diversity of North Carolina.

626
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: That could be intriguing and both it has demographic diversity,

627
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: geographic diversity, socioeconomic diversity. But it's a big state. And

628
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: do you want a big state a top ten state? Right?

629
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: I think that's the knock on Michigan, you know, the

630
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: first four being you know, frankly five congressional districts or

631
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: less strikes me as sort of what should be the

632
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: cap because the whole idea of having a small state

633
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: go first is that it means a guy like Howard

634
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: Dean in two thousand and four, who didn't have a

635
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: national fundraising base could raise enough money to be competitive

636
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: on Iowa. If he could be competitive Iowa, then that

637
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 1: could serve as a launching pad. So having small states

638
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 1: right the barrier to entry is simply lower and allows

639
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: a former mayor of South Bend to try to jump

640
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: in and things like that. Where if you have a Michigan,

641
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: a North Carolina, a Georgia, one of the growing one

642
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: of the larger states or growing states, big super pac

643
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: money can just overwhelm right. I'm not saying big money

644
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,479
Speaker 1: doesn't matter in Iowa, but in some ways you don't.

645
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: It isn't. It doesn't cinch the game the way it

646
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: might in a larger state there. So look, I'd love

647
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: to hear from you. What what what states? You know,

648
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: as I've said, I'm I'm this is where I dork out.

649
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: I always thought that we had a pretty good I

650
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: thought the first three were perfect. I you know, I

651
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: don't want to get my friend John Ralston Matt. You

652
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: know I would. If you're asking me which western small

653
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: state should go first. Should it be Nevada, Should it

654
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: be Oregon? Should it be New Mexico. Maybe you could

655
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: make an argument for Utah. I like New Mexico the best.

656
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: I think it. You want to have a Hispanic popular,

657
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: you know, a state with a large Hispanic population. That

658
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: was one of the one of the rationales for Nevada.

659
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: But there's also you know, it's not just sort of

660
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: a two city you know, it's a two county state

661
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 1: in Nevada essentially, and that's less so in New Mexico.

662
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: It's still you know, it's still Albuquerque is still a

663
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: big chunk, but there's some there. I think it might

664
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: be an interesting Western test. I'm sorry to see Kansas

665
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: not put there, not apply here. I think Kansas could

666
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: have been an interesting first in the nation. I think

667
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: it's kind of a growing state. And if I had been,

668
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: see this is the way. If I were the running

669
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: a political party, I would also want to use my

670
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: first in the nation calendar as a way to grow

671
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: in a state. Right, I've always believed that Iowa being

672
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: first in the nation made it a swing state that

673
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: naturally demographically Iowa without it, without being first in the nation,

674
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: without the national attention, you know, it's going to lean

675
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: in the direction of where most rural voters will lean

676
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: on a given time. Right, it was populous Democrat at

677
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: the time that it can become populis Republican. But there's

678
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: something about putting a national spotlight on a state that

679
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: actually has voters behave more like swing voters. And I

680
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: think you saw that with Iowa being in the national

681
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: spotlight for that sort of thirty to forty year period

682
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: between sort of seventy six and twenty sixteen, that really

683
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: did sort of change the nature of the voter in

684
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: Iowa and made them realize, hey, they took their vote

685
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 1: a little extra seriously and really ended up hearing hearing

686
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: about politics in stereo in a way that many many

687
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 1: state residents don't. So if I were the DNC, I'd

688
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: be trying to figure out in my calendar, is this

689
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: what is a first in the nation state where having

690
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: a lot of Democrats run around and organize will actually

691
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: help you in the future. Well, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska all

692
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: fall into that category. There are potentially states Democrats could

693
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: improve their standard if you had a lot of if

694
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: you had a first, if it was one of the

695
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: first four, you'd have a lot more organizing take place,

696
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: You'd have a lot more resources being put into the state,

697
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, you might have a more competitive

698
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: landscape in midterm elections in those states. So that would

699
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: be one way I think about this. And then the South,

700
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: that's where I would I you know, I'm sorry to

701
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: see Mississippi not apply for something like this. I'd be

702
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: looking at a Mississippi or a South Carolina on that

703
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: front as a way to do that. Of course, one

704
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: could argue push back on me and say, well, South

705
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: Carolina has been in the first four and it's not

706
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: like Democrats have improved their standing in South Carolina. It'd

707
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: be a fair tenner point. But in general, getting national

708
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: Democrats to spend more time in some of these red

709
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: leaning states I think would help them. And it should

710
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: be the same mindset for Republicans. You know, if I

711
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: were them and they're trying to get Minnesota, I'd be

712
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: leaning in on maybe get Minnesota your first four if

713
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 1: they want to try to improve I think the reason

714
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: they've done better in Nevada is that Nevada is in

715
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: there first for and if New Mexico gets part of

716
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: the first four and Republican. If I were Republicans, I

717
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: jump on that in a heartbeat to help their presidential

718
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: candidates talk to Latino voters better. So it all depends.

719
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,479
Speaker 1: If you're a party leader and you're trying to build

720
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: your party, I think you should use your primary calendar

721
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: as a way to grow your party. I have a

722
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: feeling that the DNC may use their primary calendar just

723
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: simply to try to figure out what's the best way

724
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: to find the most electable nominee, which is also a

725
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: very viable rationale. Don't get me wrong, but that's trading

726
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: sort of long term future for short term ism. That

727
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: would be the one thing there. All right, I've gone

728
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: on long enough. Let me sneak at a break. Here.

729
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: There's my little political update again. I'm going to try

730
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: to make thursdays. I said that before. A lot of

731
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: times news gets in the way, but most Thursdays I

732
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: will try to, especially as the campaign midterm campaigns keeps

733
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: kicking up, dig in a little bit in the more

734
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: state based political stories on that front. So with that,

735
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: sneaking a break, when we come back to the mayor

736
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: of Minneapolis, Jack and Fry. Having good life insurance is

737
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: incredibly important. I know from personal experience. I was sixteen

738
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 1: when my father passed away. We didn't have any money.

739
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: He didn't leave us in the best shape. My mother,

740
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: single mother, now widow, myself sixteen trying to figure out

741
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: how am I going to pay for college? And lo

742
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: and behold, my dad had one life insurance policy that

743
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: we found wasn't a lot, but it was important at

744
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 1: the time, and it's why I was able to go

745
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: to college. Little did he know how important that would

746
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: be in that moment. Well, guess what. That's why I

747
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: am here to tell you about Etho's life. They can

748
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: provide you with peace of mind knowing your family is

749
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: protected even if the worst comes to pass. Ethos is

750
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: an online platform that makes getting life insurance fast and easy,

751
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: all designed to protect your family's future in minutes, not months.

752
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Speaker 1: There's no complicated process, and it's one hundred percent online.

753
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: There's no medical exam require you just answer a few

754
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: health questions online. You can get a quote in as

755
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 1: little as ten minutes, and you can get same day

756
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Speaker 1: coverage without ever leaving your home. You can get up

757
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 1: to three million dollars in coverage, and some policies start

758
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: as low as two dollars a day that would be

759
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: billed monthly. As of March twenty twenty five, Business Insider

760
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life

761
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: insurance provider. So protect your family with life insurance from Ethos.

762
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: Get your free quot at ethos dot com slash chuck

763
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Speaker 1: so again, that's ethos dot com slash chuck. Application times

764
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: may vary, and the rates themselves may vary as well,

765
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: but trust me, life insurance is something you should really

766
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: think about it, especially if you've got a growing family. Well,

767
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: joining me now is the mayor of Minneapolis. It's Jacob Prime,

768
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: mister mayor. Appreciate you taking a few minutes with me.

769
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.

770
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: So, I mean, just we get a few you know.

771
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: One of the things that why I appreciate the longer

772
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: form is that we can put some context. So just

773
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: in a quick summary, because a lot of people don't

774
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: know what is the what powers individual mayors have. Right

775
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: in some cities it's a strong mayor. Some cities, it's

776
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: a weak mayor. Some cities it's up to the mayor

777
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: who the police chief is. Others it is not. So

778
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: give me the quick structure on law enforcement in your

779
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: authority over law enforcement. How much it's you, how much

780
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: it's the city council.

781
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, we began officially shifting our structure

782
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: of government to what is known as a strong mayor system.

783
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: I just call it a regular mayor system of Innneapolis

784
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 2: and Saint Paul and Duluth and New York City. Chicago

785
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 2: is a strong mayor's system where the executive runs the

786
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: day to day operations and the council is like the Congress.

787
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: Day laws or more of a legislature, also participating in

788
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: the executive functions.

789
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So the police, for instance, report up

790
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 2: through the commissioner.

791
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: Ultimately, so you appoint the police commissioner or does the

792
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: city council have a saying that.

793
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 2: I appoint the Commissioner of Safety and the police of

794
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: chief the chief of police. Our council then confirms the appointment.

795
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: Gotcha? So I say this because when it comes to okay,

796
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: so let's take the so called phrasing of sanctuary city, right,

797
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: And I know you at first it was an executive order.

798
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: Now it's been codified in the city law. And I

799
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 1: guess where what is the line between city and state?

800
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: And then what is the line between city and federal

801
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: in this sanctuary.

802
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: Well, you're asking all the right questions. So we have

803
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: had what is called a separation ordinance in place well

804
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: before my time, right with.

805
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: That order on some twenty plus years, right, it's been

806
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: quite some and.

807
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: It's virtually been the same throughout that entire time period.

808
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: The council lamented it a little bit recently, but it's

809
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: virtually the same thing, and the basis of it is

810
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: this is that our police officers, our officials at the

811
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: City of Minneapolis, do not coordinate with any federal agency

812
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: around immigration enforcement work. So, in other words, we will

813
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 2: not work with ICE or any other federal agency that

814
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: has been deputized around immigration enforcement work. We do work

815
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: with them around general safety, crime prevention, driving down, homicides,

816
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And we also won't ask people

817
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 2: at to their documentation status. And so when we haven't

818
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: asked somebody their documentation status, we haven't gathered any information.

819
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: And because we haven't gathered any information, when Donald Trump

820
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 2: or anybody else asks us for all of our information,

821
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: our answer is quite simple, which is we don't have

822
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: it right.

823
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: What is the line of when you think somebody's immigration

824
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: status matters when you have a interaction with a resident

825
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: of your city for.

826
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: Purposes of safety, It doesn't for purposes of calling nine

827
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 2: to one one, it doesn't. You know, I want our

828
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: police officers spending their limited and valuable time keeping people safe,

829
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: driving down murders, arresting carjackers, doing all the basic stuff

830
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 2: that any police officer would need to do on a

831
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: daily basis. I don't want them spending a single second

832
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: hunting down some father who just dropped his kids off

833
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 2: at daycares about to go work a twelve hour shift

834
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: who happens to be from Ecuador. Like that guy makes

835
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: our city a better place as far as you know,

836
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 2: what is the line. Look, I don't know if you

837
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 2: committed a murder or you shot a gun. I don't

838
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 2: care where you're from. I don't care who your parents were.

839
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: You know there are consequences for that. But I don't

840
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: get the sense of spending limited resources on immigration.

841
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: If ICE comes to the city of Minneapolis and says,

842
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: we believe you have a criminal in custody, will you

843
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: release that criminal to us if they have proof that

844
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: this this individual is a criminal, what is the policy

845
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: of the police force at that point.

846
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 2: So there's parts where we are involved and there's parts

847
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 2: where we are not arresting that criminal. We are involved,

848
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: and we will work with federal agencies to arrest that criminal. Now,

849
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 2: remember the whole concept of deportation is on the civil side.

850
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 2: But we will work with federal agencies to a guy

851
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 2: that has done bad dates, murders, carjackings, whatever it might be.

852
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: We at the city, however, don't control the jail. So

853
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 2: the whole concept of.

854
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: The interesting that is that is the Canneban County and

855
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: now he.

856
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: Runs the jail. That is the jail. And then the state,

857
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 2: who has provided quite a bit of information recently about

858
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: how they actually do work with Immigration and ICE to

859
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 2: provide you know, to you know, not let murderers back

860
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: on the street. That's through the state.

861
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: Like any situation, I assume you tried diplomacy first, meaning

862
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, you knew a new administration was coming in

863
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. What were those conversations like before

864
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: this escalated to what it has become today. Walk me

865
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: through your interactions you had with DHS or with ICE,

866
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 1: or with any part of the federal government before it

867
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: got to where we're what you're having to deal with

868
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: in the moment.

869
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: With this administration, it was a pretty quick zero to

870
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 2: one hundred, not as far as this operation goes, but

871
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 2: as the general mentality of what they were doing. And look,

872
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: you always expect different ideologies and values with a new administration,

873
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 2: especially a new administration that is of a different party,

874
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 2: But this is something entirely different even from the first

875
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: Trump administration. We did not see this kind of conduct

876
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: to this degree with the first Trump administration. And I

877
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 2: think it was probably twenty or thirty days or something

878
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 2: like that, maybe even less after Trump was sworn into

879
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 2: this term. I got a letter on my desk from

880
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 2: I believe the Office of Management Budget that quite literally

881
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 2: said that all grants that were provided to the City

882
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 2: of Minneapolis totally somewhere in the range of seventy million

883
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 2: dollars would be cut off. And the basic lever that

884
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 2: they were trying to pull was, you will lose this

885
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: money if you don't get rid of all diversity work

886
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: and stop the separation.

887
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: Which I want to put up, which federal governments have

888
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: tried to do with cities and states for decades. Right

889
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: is always the first threat is usually financial.

890
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: Right it is, And there's a ton of legal dictum

891
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 2: on this particular issue of how much can you know

892
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: the federal government influence or coerce cities based on some

893
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 2: alternate policy that has nothing to do with that right,

894
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 2: And so they've taken a pretty extreme line on how

895
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: they're doing it.

896
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 1: So you now this wasn't a case of I mean,

897
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: have you had a meeting with Christino and said, hey,

898
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: what are you trying to truly accomplish here, that's in

899
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: the interest of public safety, we'd like to help. Have you.

900
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: Have you been able to have that conversation with the

901
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: Secretary of d J.

902
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 2: I have not had that conversation because the way they're

903
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 2: framing this up, sadly is not about I don't even

904
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 2: think it's about immigration. I think this is political retribution.

905
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,479
Speaker 1: I think do you feel like it's all about George Floyd.

906
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 2: I don't know George Floyd. I think it's about Tim Walls.

907
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 2: It's it's you know, the vice presidential candidate ran against

908
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, and I think there's a I think perhaps

909
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is unhappy that for three elections in a row,

910
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 2: Minnesota did not support his candidacy. I believe that he's

911
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 2: trying to make a point here.

912
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: And well, when you look at the data, it's not

913
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 1: like it's not as if Minneapolis stands out compared to Chicago, Denver,

914
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: New York. We could go through the cities here. So

915
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: it does feel as if you're you I think you

916
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: have said this that you feel as if you're a

917
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: petri dish political petritish right now.

918
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 2: You know, it feels a little bit as if there

919
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 2: were multiple things that were occurring in rapid succession that

920
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 2: don't necessarily have anything to do with one another, you

921
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It almost feels like you remember

922
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: you like post nine to eleven. I remember, you know

923
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: you reporting on that, you know, nine to eleven, And

924
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 2: then you had going after the Taliban. Then it was

925
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: looking at Afghanistan. Suddenly we're in Iraq again, and so

926
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 2: it was these things that, like if you weren't paying

927
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 2: a lot of attention, were seemingly linked, but they weren't

928
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 2: at all. And so we had an issue in our

929
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 2: state around fraud and look, it's real, it is a

930
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: real issue. And then there were these racist attacks on

931
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 2: entire communities, most notably are Somali community based on that,

932
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: and then from there it was let's I believe and

933
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 2: this is not based on personal information. I speculate that

934
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: somebody from relatively high up in the Trump administration said,

935
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 2: go to Minneapolis, go toport a bunch of Somalis, and

936
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 2: whoever gave that directive didn't get the necessary pushback, and

937
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 2: then suddenly you got a bunch of ICE agents. They're

938
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis trying to deport Somalis, only to find out

939
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 2: they're from here. They're American citizens. They got here on

940
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 2: a plane, they're here legally.

941
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: When were the first Somalian settle settlements. It was in

942
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: the mid to late nineties.

943
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,919
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, I would say, men, we.

944
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: Were accepting refugees from a war torn country. This was

945
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: a country. So this is what America has done for decades,

946
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: that's right, refugees from a war torn country.

947
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been here longer than I've been here. They're

948
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 2: very Minneapolis and at this point, you know, multiple generations

949
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: they have been and so it's it's it's not like

950
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 2: there's a location where you can go to get a

951
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 2: bunch of undocumented Somalis. Those locations don't exist because again,

952
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 2: for the most part, they're citizens.

953
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: So basically, you have this fraud issue that really has

954
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: nothing to do with undocumented immigrants.

955
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: Right right, It's a completely separate issue.

956
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean the irony is whatever fraud

957
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: was committed was likely committed by American citizens, right.

958
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: Likely? Yeah, Yeah, I mean I don't break down, but yes,

959
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: you know, and when somebody commits fraud, You investigate, you prosecute,

960
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: you charge, you get a conviction, and yeah, you put

961
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: the person in jail as an individual. You don't hold

962
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 2: an entire community accountable. You hold the person accountable as

963
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: an individual. It's just a very basic American value in

964
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: law enforcement value, and it's shocking and concerning that we're

965
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 2: getting so far straight from that.

966
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: Well, I'm old enough to remember when part of the

967
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: anti woke mindset was to not was to not try

968
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: to attack an entire group of people for one person, right,

969
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: I thought that was one of the complaints. Yeah, I

970
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: mean that was coming from the right. But here, here

971
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: we are. Let me ask about dealing with the safety

972
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: of your community. Nine to one one response times have

973
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: gotten worse in the last few months. Do you believe

974
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: that's directly the result of the chaos that you believe

975
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: ICE is creating in your city.

976
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 2: I'm certain that's part of it. With anything law enforcement related,

977
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 2: there's always more than one causal factor. But look, we

978
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 2: got six hundred cops in the city. We have fewer

979
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 2: officers per capita than virtually any major city in the country.

980
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: Are you short of cops? I mean, and an ideal world,

981
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: do you wish you had more. Yes, yeah, I mean

982
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: I've yet to meet a mayor that is not frustrated

983
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:45,439
Speaker 1: by this. I'm pretty friendly with maryol Bowser, mayor of DC,

984
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: and she's literally, I swear almost wearing a sign, you know,

985
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: call please apply.

986
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: You know, I wear the same sign, and I would argue,

987
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 2: I would argue we need them even more, just for

988
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 2: on a per capita basis, we are very low. So

989
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 2: we hemorrhaged officers following twenty two and we are at

990
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 2: the point where we're netting positive. More and more officers

991
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 2: are coming on, but we don't have enough. Now, juxtapose

992
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: that six hundred number versus the three or four thousand

993
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, ICE agents and border control. There

994
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 2: is a massive imbalance here, and our police officers have

995
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 2: got to do the day to day work of being

996
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 2: a cop. And you know, on top of that, we've

997
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 2: got all of these calls coming in, all of these

998
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, ICE instigated events that are taking place that

999
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 2: requires some form of our police officers to do even

1000
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 2: more work on top.

1001
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: T So what happened? So if somebody calls in and says, hey,

1002
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm being harassed, I'm I'm a Minneapolis resident. I'm an

1003
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: American citizen and I feel as if I'm being harassed

1004
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: by these ICE agents. What are your what's your police

1005
01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: force supposed to do?

1006
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: Well? It all depends on the nature of the call.

1007
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 2: Of course, we respond to calls regarding kidnappings, and so

1008
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 2: if somebody says my son is getting kidnapped, we go.

1009
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: If there is a protest taking place in an ambulance

1010
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 2: needs to get in to help somebody, we escort the

1011
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 2: ambulance in. If property damage is taking place, we deal

1012
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 2: with the property damage. And yes, we intervene if there

1013
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 2: is some form of misconduct or unlawful behavior that is

1014
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 2: part of our officer's jobs. And obviously this gets very

1015
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 2: difficult when you're also trying to determine whether the conduct

1016
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 2: that is taking place is within the roles and responsibilities

1017
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: provided delegated to ICE other agencies, or if it's outside

1018
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 2: that scope of a criminal nature. This is a very

1019
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 2: tenuous and difficult place for officers to be.

1020
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: And let me guess most of your police officers don't

1021
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: travel with legal counsel.

1022
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: Now do they believe it or not? They don't.

1023
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I I just so what is

1024
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: I mean? I get that each circumstance is unique. But

1025
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: you know what, what advice are your police officers getting

1026
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: and dealing with these situations. Their their goal is to

1027
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: keep the peace, their goal to keep pizza, de escalate

1028
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: whatever it is. They're just trying to de escalate.

1029
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they try to de escalate the situation. They try

1030
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 2: to keep the peace. They do not and will not

1031
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: cooperate with ICE or any federal agency on immigration enforcement work.

1032
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 2: That's not our job, that's not what we do. And yeah,

1033
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 2: they're trying to keep people from getting hurt or injured.

1034
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 2: And the way that ICE is conducting this, I'm telling

1035
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 2: you it's I've never seen anything like this before.

1036
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: Do you think this is designed to provoke a response?

1037
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? Perhaps, I don't. I mean, look, I don't. I'm

1038
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 2: not in the mind of either these federal agents nor

1039
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 2: this administration. I think a lot of what is happening

1040
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: is designed to create some form of response. I mean,

1041
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 2: we don't have that many undocumented immigrants here. What they're

1042
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 2: doing is not based on safety. We have partnered with

1043
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 2: them based on safety. This seems to me like, you know,

1044
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 2: they are trying to whip people up into a frenzy.

1045
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 2: And I mean, thankfully, and for the vast majority of

1046
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: people in our city and the tens of thousands of protesters,

1047
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 2: they're not taking de bait. They're not countering Donald Trump's

1048
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 2: chaos with our own brand of chaos here. And you

1049
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 2: know that's that seems like what they're looking to do.

1050
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 2: And they've got fifteen hundred militarized troops that are presently

1051
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 2: on standby.

1052
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: What legal avenues do you think you have to sort

1053
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: of at least limit ICE's ability to roam the city.

1054
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: I mean this sort of five to one ratio, right

1055
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: being outnumbered by Ice and Border patrol versus your local police.

1056
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: That seems excessive. Is there a court? Is there a

1057
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: legal avenue, a court order you could get this says?

1058
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: You know, this is this is outside the bounds of

1059
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: what's necessary. This is an excessive et cetera. Is there

1060
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: is there any legal avenue here?

1061
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 2: There is a legal avenue. I am hopeful that we

1062
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: will succeed in the litigation that is presently underway. We

1063
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,919
Speaker 2: have a judge. I think we're working towards a hearing.

1064
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 2: Dat I was hoping that it was going to be

1065
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 2: this Friday, and I'm optimistic.

1066
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: And what do you want that judge to do. What's

1067
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: the specific ask?

1068
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 2: The specific I mean, there's several asks within the complaint itself,

1069
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 2: but the basic one is to stop the operation, pure

1070
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 2: and simple. Yes, to stop the operation that is presently

1071
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 2: taking place, which is the huge influx of federal agents.

1072
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 2: I mean, look, you know, ICE has existed now for decades.

1073
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 2: Immigration enforcement exists. We're we're not talking about like just

1074
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 2: ICE doing ICE stuff. We're talking about constitutional violations which

1075
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 2: have gone way beyond anything I could imagine it. This

1076
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 2: is targeting of Somali and Latino people.

1077
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:35,479
Speaker 1: This is.

1078
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 2: I mean, this is actually happening. Do you look Somali?

1079
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 2: Do you look Latino? Dragging people off the street, give

1080
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 2: me your passport or else we're detaining you. That is

1081
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: actually happening.

1082
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 1: You know, mister, this is the hardest thing to convey.

1083
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: I think these days, especially in the world of deep fakes,

1084
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: nothing you believe, nothing online feels like it's on the

1085
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 1: up and up. Obviously, we live we've been sort of

1086
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: poisoned by these algorithms and all of that. I find

1087
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: this to be the hardest thing to convey to people

1088
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: who are not seeing it firsthand. And I imagine you

1089
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: feel this frustration as well. There was a Brooklyn Park

1090
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: police chief when viral yesterday with some comments he made

1091
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: about what has happened to off duty officers who just

1092
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: don't happen to look like you and me? What kind

1093
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: of experiences have you heard on that front? And if

1094
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: you talk to any of these off duty cops, have

1095
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 1: they shared their experiences with ice with you?

1096
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've heard countless instances very similar, almost identical to

1097
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: what you heard from that. I believe it was Brooklyn Park, Yeah,

1098
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:49,479
Speaker 2: police chief.

1099
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 1: For those of you that are in Brooklyn Park, I

1100
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: believe that's where Jesse Ventura was mayor.

1101
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken. Back in the day, I often

1102
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,959
Speaker 2: get the who if it's from Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center,

1103
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: which are right next to eather But I do.

1104
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: Think you were one of them. Was where Jesse Ventur

1105
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 1: got to start, right? Yeah? For those outside of Minnesota

1106
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: keeping score at home, anyway, go ahead, sorry, I am all.

1107
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: I am, after all a political Juggie pot page.

1108
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 2: I am impressed. Yes, No, Minnesota has gone a long

1109
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 2: a long history of interesting and fascinating and politicians.

1110
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: One of my favorite states, you know, because of that,

1111
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 1: I love the characters and personalities and what I use

1112
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: what Hubert Humphrey once called the politics of joy that

1113
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: was Minnesota.

1114
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: He's of Minneapolis.

1115
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: Actually not a lot of joy these days, but oh

1116
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: my gosh.

1117
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the kind of dynamic that we're hearing

1118
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 2: about constantly. And apart from, of course, the unlawfully detaining

1119
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 2: people to the United States citizens, apart from the gimme

1120
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: your passport and your identification based on nothing more than

1121
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: you being a being a person of color. I mean

1122
01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 2: we've seen we've seen our own city employees in city uniforms,

1123
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 2: by the way, in city vests. You know, there'll be

1124
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 2: four public works employees out there filling potholes and the

1125
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 2: three that are brown or black get id and the

1126
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 2: one guy's white. Doesn't mean you can't do that. Uh,

1127
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 2: they're filling potholes. This ain't America. The other thing that

1128
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 2: we're seeing is just just really dumb, just dumb anti

1129
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 2: safety conduct taking place.

1130
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: Do you think get they were better trained, this might

1131
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 1: be going better.

1132
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:44,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, better trained, a better direction, better moral authority,

1133
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 2: some some form of moral compass. You know, the over

1134
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 2: on Third Avenue, which is the street that we are

1135
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:58,919
Speaker 2: right off, right now it's a pretty significant street. They detained,

1136
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 2: they ice detain. Somebody yanked him out of the car,

1137
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 2: kept the car in drive. There's nobody in the car.

1138
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 2: Car is just rolling down the street with nobody in it.

1139
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 2: I mean, that could have hit my parents, you know,

1140
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 2: that could have injured somebody. We've got other instances where

1141
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 2: they detained the person and then suddenly you got a

1142
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 2: stray dog and the dog is just roaming around the city.

1143
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 2: It's cold out right now. We got a call in,

1144
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 2: you know, the other day from a five year old

1145
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 2: kid who was speaking Spanish saying, I don't know where

1146
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 2: my parents are. They haven't come home. I mean, this

1147
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: is the kind of heartbreaking stuff that we're hearing about

1148
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 2: right now. And again, it's not about catching criminals. I'm

1149
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 2: just sick of this narrative. I'll take the most the

1150
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 2: simplest position that I have maybe ever taken as mayor,

1151
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 2: which is in minneapols were anti murder in Minneapolis, were

1152
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 2: anti rape. If you want to catch a murder or rapist,

1153
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 2: we're on board. Let's do it. That's not what this

1154
01:09:59,600 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 2: is about.

1155
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 1: Though. How concerned are you that residents are going to

1156
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 1: take matters into their own hands.

1157
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 2: I mean, of course that is a concern, but for

1158
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 2: the most part, I mean I'm inspired. I have been

1159
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 2: watching people go source their local food bank and get

1160
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 2: people groceries and escorting people on their walk or their

1161
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 2: drive to work. I mean, you have tens of thousands

1162
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 2: of people showing the world exactly who Minneapolis is and

1163
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: what we stand for and our core convictions and values.

1164
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 2: And by the way, people from different ideological perspectives as well,

1165
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 2: all saying, you know what, I love our neighbor, we

1166
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 2: stand by them, we support our local business or local restaurants.

1167
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it's something that is truly magnificent. I've never

1168
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 2: been more proud to be from Minneapolis.

1169
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: I want to go back to the decision not to

1170
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 1: let Ice use city property. I understand the symbolic nature

1171
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 1: of that. It hasn't deterred Ice from arguably causing even

1172
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 1: more chaos by getting using private property, being disruptive using

1173
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,719
Speaker 1: federal property. Is that policy workable?

1174
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: I think it's a fair question to ask. I mean,

1175
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 2: we want to make it clear that we will not

1176
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 2: cooperate with them and allow them to do this really

1177
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 2: unconstitutional conduct with our resources, and that includes our parking lots. Look,

1178
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 2: is it like some big monumental measure. No, no, I'm

1179
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 2: certainly not arguing that. But it was a tool that

1180
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 2: we had and it's a tool that we're going to use.

1181
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 1: Do you need more resources from the state?

1182
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,600
Speaker 2: I mean always we're always asking for sure.

1183
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 1: On this particular issue. I mean, i mean, look, this

1184
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:00,160
Speaker 1: seems like a far fetch question. But and I and

1185
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I've I've not wanted to go down

1186
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: this road because of the of the implications of it.

1187
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: But if you thought about asking the governor to call

1188
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: up the National Guard to help deal with ice in

1189
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 1: your community.

1190
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 2: Uh, we have talked with the governor about calling up

1191
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 2: the National Guard and what that would look like and

1192
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:24,560
Speaker 2: where they would where and how they would be utilized. Importantly,

1193
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 2: the governor has the authority over the National Guard, not

1194
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 2: the president. The governor. Governor has the authority of when, where,

1195
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,799
Speaker 2: how and if to implement the National Guard, and he has.

1196
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: Now he has authority over the National Guard within the

1197
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: state of Minnesota. Correct, Yes, right, I mean there is

1198
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: a like he couldn't tell this Minnesota National Guard go

1199
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: into Wisconsin.

1200
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 2: Correct, I should have been a distinction.

1201
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, no, no, no, Well, I just I was just

1202
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: doing the sort of for the list everybody.

1203
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 2: Else, and he has called them up to have them

1204
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 2: on standby on the number of occasions all ready. And

1205
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 2: that's a very important move one because we've got the

1206
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 2: additional resources if in fact we need them. We haven't.

1207
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: But what it also does is show Governor Wallas has

1208
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 2: got it. You know, he's on And I think that's

1209
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 2: a very important point.

1210
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: What do you have an understanding what the subpoena was

1211
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:23,799
Speaker 1: about that you received? I know it wasn't you personally,

1212
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 1: it was I guess the Was it the City of

1213
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: Minneapolis or the office of the mayor.

1214
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 2: That got in the office of the mayor?

1215
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 1: And what was subpoena?

1216
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 2: I mean, all sorts of stuff. I think generally these

1217
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:40,759
Speaker 2: subpoena processes, especially through Grand jurior're supposed to be secret,

1218
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,959
Speaker 2: but they're clearly trying to make a big public fiasco

1219
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 2: out of it. I don't have the thing in front

1220
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 2: of me. I mean, what I'll say is it should

1221
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 2: be deeply concerning to everyone that the Department of Justice

1222
01:13:53,760 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 2: is being weaponized to go after political leaders that disagree

1223
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 2: with the president. I mean, the thing in essence that

1224
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 2: I would be getting targeted for is doing one of

1225
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 2: my most core and critical jobs that I have as mayor,

1226
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 2: and that's to speak on behalf of my constituents. It's frivolous.

1227
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 2: I almost don't like saying that because it's so obvious.

1228
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 2: And then this kind of this is problematic for everybody.

1229
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 2: We should all be very well.

1230
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: Look, I've often said a bit in jest that if

1231
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: the FBI came knocking on my door and showed up

1232
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: with some sort of charge, I wouldn't believe him. I'd

1233
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: tell them, I don't think you're the FBI. I don't

1234
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 1: believe you. I mean, I say, there, you know, being

1235
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,679
Speaker 1: a little like I said, it's a tad bit tongue

1236
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 1: in cheap, but you know, the level of credibility that

1237
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: the federal law enforcement agencies have with a large share

1238
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: of the public is quite low right now. I mean,

1239
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: do you trust the the current Department of Justice?

1240
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 2: No? No, I mean, And that's a crazy it's not

1241
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 2: a crazy thing to say right now, but it should be.

1242
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:21,600
Speaker 2: It should be. My mentality. My mentality right throughout my

1243
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:25,640
Speaker 2: life has been of a whole lot of faith and

1244
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 2: trust in not just the federal government, but specifically the

1245
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 2: Department of Justice of these kind of legal supposedly quasi

1246
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 2: independent entities that are able to enforce and carry out

1247
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 2: the law. I mean. And part of that faith stems

1248
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 2: from the fact that you've got these long term bureaucrats.

1249
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:49,680
Speaker 2: Bureaucrats often have a negative connotation to them, but they

1250
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 2: are these people that span beyond administration. They were there

1251
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 2: for Bush and Clinton, they were there for Obama.

1252
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:59,919
Speaker 1: The career is I wish we wouldn't call them bureaucrats.

1253
01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: Their career is, which frankly, you know, was something that

1254
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: was actually a civil service reform that goes back if

1255
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: you I think people got a mini education on it,

1256
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:15,919
Speaker 1: if they binged to death by lightning on Netflix recently.

1257
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 1: It was sort of the hallmark of the Garfield, Chester

1258
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:26,919
Speaker 1: Arthur presidencies was this to create this nonpartisan government worker protection.

1259
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 2: And there's so much value to that one because you've

1260
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 2: got this institutional knowledge and memory that spans between your

1261
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: administrations into the conviction and the loyalty is not to

1262
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:45,280
Speaker 2: some guy, it's to America. And you talk to so

1263
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 2: many of these people and they're like, they're very much

1264
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 2: sure they vote, but they are very much postpartisan I mean,

1265
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 2: and they believe in command and control and the order

1266
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 2: that they bring. And they also very much believe in

1267
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:01,719
Speaker 2: the Constitution, and that so many of these career would

1268
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 2: you call them careerists, uh, these professionals, Yeah, that so

1269
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 2: many of them have said that's it, We've had enough

1270
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 2: work out, we can't do this anymore. Both I give

1271
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 2: them a lot of credit for, you know, leaving their

1272
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 2: job because there's not going to do this horrible thing.

1273
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 2: And at the same time, it's it's really problematic because

1274
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 2: what does that leave you with. It leaves you with.

1275
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 2: I don'm a loyalists who are just going to do

1276
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 2: whatever the president tells you to.

1277
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 1: Let me. I know you're busy. I want to get

1278
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: you out of here on this, which is given the

1279
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 1: experience now you're feeling of this weaponized federal government, right.

1280
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 1: I look, it looks like you've been targeted. This looks

1281
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 1: like it's an attempt to spark a response. This was

1282
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 1: a this was a specific let's go to here, there's

1283
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,839
Speaker 1: a blue city activist we can that won't be popular

1284
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: with centrist You know, you can see the sort of

1285
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 1: political design in the heads of these folks. Do you

1286
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 1: think people didn't stand up to Trump enough? Has there

1287
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 1: been too much appeasement? Do you think do you have

1288
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: any advice or told you so's to eddy democratic leaders

1289
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: when it comes to Trump that you'd like to express

1290
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: or do you feel as if that, hey, guess what

1291
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:17,639
Speaker 1: you know? Failure of imagination is basically the only sin

1292
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:19,639
Speaker 1: people have committed when it comes to Donald Trump.

1293
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 2: Failure of imagination, perhaps failure of believing that he's going

1294
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 2: to do the things that he says he's going to do.

1295
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 1: Well, we're used to politicians not doing that, right, so

1296
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,640
Speaker 1: we just assume he's full of it. And the thing is,

1297
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 1: he is full of it until he's not full.

1298
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 2: Of it, right. I mean, some of these horrific things

1299
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:43,639
Speaker 2: he has told people that he was going to do them,

1300
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 2: And you know, I could probably count myself in with

1301
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 2: those that should have believed that he was going to

1302
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 2: do some of this crazy stuff, because at least initially

1303
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,559
Speaker 2: back in twenty sixteen, I kind of shoved it off, like,

1304
01:18:55,600 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 2: oh my god, come on, that's ridiculous. But now we're

1305
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,680
Speaker 2: in a second term here and he's carrying some of

1306
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 2: it out and it's terrifying, and it's reached a whole

1307
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 2: new level than anything that we saw in that first term.

1308
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 1: Well, do you think there's any end in sight to

1309
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 1: this or is it it's going to your last is

1310
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 1: the court the sort of the last place you can go.

1311
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 2: Well, we are accessing every single channel that we have. Yes,

1312
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:29,040
Speaker 2: we are litigating preemptively. We are litigating in response to

1313
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 2: what's taking place. I am very optimistic that we're going

1314
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,759
Speaker 2: to win. And at the same time, we are also

1315
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 2: accessing other channels in the federal government, in the White

1316
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:42,559
Speaker 2: House to try to get this to change, you know,

1317
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 2: pushing out to business leaders and CEOs to have them

1318
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 2: utilize their connections.

1319
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 1: This has been bad politics for the Republicans. This has

1320
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 1: not been good for them. Just if you just look

1321
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 1: at it, it's been bad politics. So one would assume

1322
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: that they would change. By the way, are you going

1323
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 1: to be able to do a real investigation on other

1324
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 1: Renee Good was murdered?

1325
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 2: We need to do a real investigation. The investigations should

1326
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 2: run through the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which is the

1327
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:13,760
Speaker 2: state based agency that has done these investigations on use

1328
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,640
Speaker 2: of force repeatedly. They've run investigations that have come to

1329
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:20,640
Speaker 2: both charging decisions and a lack of charge. This is

1330
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 2: not some radical organization. This is largely you know, lawyers

1331
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 2: and police officers that are part of this group, and

1332
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 2: that's where it needs to go.

1333
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:33,719
Speaker 1: Has there been an investigation opened and they just can't

1334
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: get cooperation or you're waiting to see if you get

1335
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 1: cooperation before you can open an investigation.

1336
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 2: There, well, the federal government has My understanding is that

1337
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 2: they have blocked out the BCA from getting critical and

1338
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 2: important evidence that we have allowed them to run this

1339
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:55,600
Speaker 2: investigation side by side with the FBI, sure and the

1340
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 2: PIE side.

1341
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:57,799
Speaker 1: It would have been a normal way to do business

1342
01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 1: back in the normal way.

1343
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 2: Very normal way. I mean it has it has done

1344
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 2: that before. That's the way we have operated for But

1345
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 2: but and you know, barring that, yeah, I would like

1346
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 2: to see it do the investigation themselves, and of course

1347
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 2: there will be support.

1348
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 1: How much of your job is dominated by this current crisis, I.

1349
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 2: Mean much of it obviously, But we're you know, we're

1350
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 2: going to keep providing important constituent services. We do the

1351
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,640
Speaker 2: work of the city. You know, city governments were the

1352
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 2: ones that don't shut down, So we keep rolling. We're

1353
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 2: not quitting. We're not going to get intimidated by what's

1354
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 2: going on, mister mayor.

1355
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 1: I appreciate the time. Like I said, I know you're busy,

1356
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 1: so when going forty five minute or one hour podcast

1357
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:42,160
Speaker 1: is a lot to ask. So I appreciate you giving.

1358
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 2: Me thirty honored to be here with you. I be

1359
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 2: watching a lot as a kid, so I've watched me

1360
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 2: for a long time.

1361
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: Well, i appreciate you making me feel a little that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, thanks,

1362
01:21:50,840 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 1: all right, thank you, mister Beck. Well you enjoyed that interview.

1363
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: And again, just for timestamp purposes, we spoke about lunchtime

1364
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, January twenty first in that interview, so when

1365
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 1: you're you know, just just so you know what was

1366
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,520
Speaker 1: just so you could put that correctly in your timeline.

1367
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,679
Speaker 1: So with that, let's dive into some questions.

1368
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 2: Ask Chuck.

1369
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: Then I'm going to start on the issue of Greenland.

1370
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:35,599
Speaker 1: And let me start here with Chase from Little Rock,

1371
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:39,760
Speaker 1: who is hashtag's ash Chuck five timer Club. I love it,

1372
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 1: and he writes this, he said, and he included a

1373
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: letter he got from Senator Cotton. He says, Chuck, I'm

1374
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 1: forwarding you the response I received from Senator Tom Cotton.

1375
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 1: I had written to him objecting to Trump's provocations towards

1376
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: Greenland and our NATO allies. His reply doesn't address NATO

1377
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: or the issue of provoking sovereign ally at all. Instead,

1378
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:04,439
Speaker 1: he pivots into a strange history lesson about shipping lanes

1379
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 1: in the US purchase of the Virgin Islands from Denmark.

1380
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 1: Why are so many senators unwilling to challenge Trump even

1381
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 1: on matters of foreign policy? Whether stakes are so high?

1382
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 1: It's interesting. That's a very specific answer that he gave.

1383
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:20,599
Speaker 1: Let me read you. You included the letter, so I'm

1384
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: going to read it, and it says, Dear Chase, thank

1385
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 1: you for contacting me about President Trump's interest in acquiring

1386
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 1: Greenland from Denmark. It's good to hear from you as always,

1387
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:33,160
Speaker 1: as if I'm wondering if you guys are frequent frequent

1388
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 1: do frequent correspondence, And he adds this, I've long believed

1389
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 1: that a Greenland closely aligned with the United States and

1390
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:42,559
Speaker 1: closed off to Russian in China is a vital national interest.

1391
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:45,680
Speaker 1: Period I'm going to annotate the letter as we go.

1392
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 1: That's already the case. Greenland is closely aligned with the

1393
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 1: United States, and it is closed off to Russian in China.

1394
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 1: This view is consistent with a long history of American statesmen,

1395
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 1: including President Truman, who in the nineteen forties advocated for

1396
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: purchasing the territory. Fact check true. I also have publicly

1397
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:06,840
Speaker 1: advocated for the purchase of Greenland since twenty nineteen, which

1398
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: I explained at the time in a New York Times

1399
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,320
Speaker 1: O bet wouldn't be the first time that we've acquired

1400
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 1: territory from Denmark either. President Wilson bought the Danish West

1401
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:16,960
Speaker 1: Indies more than a century ago. We now know them

1402
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:19,599
Speaker 1: today as the US Virgin Islands. Greenland is very attractive

1403
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: to Russian China for several reasons. Its location in the Arctic,

1404
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 1: its importance to our missile defense systems, it's access to

1405
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,679
Speaker 1: the crucial sea routes, and its wealth of rare earth

1406
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:32,719
Speaker 1: minerals necessary for our defense industry, among others. China's attempted

1407
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: to gain influence in the territory, for example, by trying

1408
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:38,599
Speaker 1: to acquire an old US naval base. Similarly, Russian presence

1409
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 1: in the Arctic continues to grow and present a challenge

1410
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 1: to our nation. We must not allow our adversaries to

1411
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,600
Speaker 1: exercise control in such a crucial region. I understand the

1412
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: concern among some people about President Trump's comments about Greenland,

1413
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:50,439
Speaker 1: but I would observe that he never rules out any

1414
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 1: option related to any foreign policy issue, a common practice

1415
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 1: among past presidents too. I'm simply pleased to see the

1416
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,840
Speaker 1: administration officials are engaging on this issue with proper concern

1417
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: for our national security. Look, I think he gave you

1418
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: a thoughtful answer, Chase, and I do think he believes

1419
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:12,080
Speaker 1: what he wrote in there. I think it's interesting what

1420
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:14,960
Speaker 1: he wrote and what he didn't. Right, he's basically saying,

1421
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: don't believe everything you hear from Trump, but he's trying

1422
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:21,639
Speaker 1: to do it in the most polite way possible, which

1423
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 1: is kind of how Cotton has operated. You're right, I think. Look,

1424
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:31,000
Speaker 1: Tom Cotton is the senator from Arkansas, so in his

1425
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 1: voters I think like Donald Trump more than they like

1426
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: Tom Cotton. One thing Tom Cotton is is self aware,

1427
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 1: and I think he enjoys being a US Senator. I

1428
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: think he'd like to run for president someday, so I

1429
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 1: don't think he wants to be on the outside of

1430
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:48,560
Speaker 1: wherever the Republican Party is today. So he is consistently

1431
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:50,640
Speaker 1: I think more so than even Lindsay Graham tried to

1432
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 1: find ways to look authentically supportive of Trump rather than

1433
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:57,760
Speaker 1: coming across frankly like Lindsay Graham, which is a bit

1434
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 1: inauthentic in how he is, you know, sort of shifted

1435
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: his alliances over the years when it comes to Trump.

1436
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,640
Speaker 1: But I do want to pick out that you know,

1437
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 1: China has attempted, but China didn't do it because of

1438
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 1: our relationship with Denmark and because of our relationship with Greenland,

1439
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:21,720
Speaker 1: and because of NATO. That's why it didn't happen. So

1440
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:26,840
Speaker 1: it it is everything he says in here is true,

1441
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 1: except it's already the case, right, We already have that

1442
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 1: kind of near autonomy on Greenland on that front. So yes,

1443
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:43,800
Speaker 1: it's true. With the melting, with the melting ice thanks

1444
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,400
Speaker 1: to climate change, the Arctic is being navigated and there

1445
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:48,320
Speaker 1: is a real fight for it. And I think it's

1446
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:51,080
Speaker 1: you know in this, you know, supremacy in the Arctic.

1447
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: This is one of the great one of the great

1448
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 1: powers issues. I hope the United States plays the role

1449
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: of Our job is to make sure no country dominates

1450
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 1: the Arctics so that there are open shipping lanes and

1451
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 1: maybe this becomes an easier way to move goods and services.

1452
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:14,000
Speaker 1: Maybe there are some, but you know, the right now

1453
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,760
Speaker 1: it feels like a land grab that everybody is the

1454
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 1: way they're talking about it, rather than protecting it from

1455
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:27,640
Speaker 1: nefarious adversaries. So anyway, I I'm very impressed with the

1456
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 1: tone of the letter. It is. It is to me

1457
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:38,799
Speaker 1: very thoughtful, nothing that would get him in political trouble

1458
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 1: with the base of the Republican Party, and it certainly

1459
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 1: comes across us as something that that that Cotton would

1460
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: be for. So in that sense, but I you know,

1461
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 1: I think I think cotton situation is different than others,

1462
01:27:56,240 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 1: and I do think he's in a state that is

1463
01:28:03,160 --> 01:28:09,760
Speaker 1: probably much more pro I think Cotton is a bit

1464
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:11,760
Speaker 1: more of an institutionalist than he's going to let on

1465
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:21,120
Speaker 1: because of the Arkansas constituency. Next question, also on Greenland.

1466
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:23,280
Speaker 1: The situation with Greenland seems like a prime example of

1467
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,599
Speaker 1: Trump being driven by personal pathologies. I know, foreign governments

1468
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:29,720
Speaker 1: build psychological profiles of leaders. Do US political teams ever

1469
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: work with psychologists in this way? Especially given how a

1470
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 1: typical Trump is. Everyone says he can't be treated like

1471
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 1: a traditional politician, Yet most responses still seem to ignore

1472
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:42,400
Speaker 1: the underlying patterns and his behavior. Darren in San Francisco. Actually, Darren,

1473
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be very careful here. I know

1474
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:49,840
Speaker 1: an extraordinarily prominent leader in the Republican Party who, after

1475
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 1: Donald Trump got elected, was given by a prominent supporter

1476
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 1: of this person a detailed paper on narcissistic personality disorder,

1477
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 1: and from the gift go said, look, just absorb this

1478
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:18,800
Speaker 1: and understand this is who you're dealing with, and use methods.

1479
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 1: And in some ways, I this is where I actually,

1480
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:25,480
Speaker 1: I do think these countries have done their psychological profiles.

1481
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:30,560
Speaker 1: I do think they're all using if you look at

1482
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, how to how to manage somebody with narcissistic

1483
01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 1: personality disorder. So for instance, some of the suggestions and

1484
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 1: how do you deal with somebody with narcissistic personality disorder? Now,

1485
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 1: I would argue that you know that there's been a

1486
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: lot more and there's one recommendation that says use the

1487
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 1: gray Rock method, meaning be as uninteresting as a gray

1488
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 1: sont don't be emotion don't react emotionally to something that

1489
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: they're demanding or declaring. And if you notice, that's probably

1490
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:13,559
Speaker 1: the one recommendation everybody does too much because I think

1491
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:17,760
Speaker 1: it comes across as appeasement. He hears it when somebody says, oh,

1492
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,360
Speaker 1: that's interesting, which is a way to sort of be

1493
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 1: non committal in your answer. He may hear then what

1494
01:30:23,439 --> 01:30:30,120
Speaker 1: he wants to hear on that stuff. You know, look

1495
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 1: at One of the other recommendations is communicate via biff,

1496
01:30:34,040 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: meaning keep it brief, informative, firm, and friendly when you're

1497
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:44,639
Speaker 1: corresponding with said individuals, particularly in writing, which is keep

1498
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:48,640
Speaker 1: it short, stick to the facts, set a clear conclusion

1499
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 1: or request, and maintain a neutral, polite tone to avoid

1500
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 1: giving them a reason to claim you are the aggressor.

1501
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,760
Speaker 1: So the point being is, when you go and look

1502
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:01,640
Speaker 1: up how to deal with with somebody who has narcissistic

1503
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 1: personality disorder, what are some recommendations? Go take a look,

1504
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 1: because in many ways I think it actually answers your question.

1505
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:16,559
Speaker 1: The answer is, Darren, yes, governments do this. Yes, they've

1506
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 1: done it with him. And if you see how certain

1507
01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:24,799
Speaker 1: I mean, look at a Claudia Shinbaum, right, she never

1508
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: takes the bait right away, right, and she is you know,

1509
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 1: somebody who's very much she's a scientist or she is

1510
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 1: going to do that kind of research. She is going

1511
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:44,599
Speaker 1: to be somebody who accepts the premise of a psychological profile.

1512
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,920
Speaker 1: We know that's the way Putin operates. We know that's

1513
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:52,160
Speaker 1: the way. I think quite a few governments do that.

1514
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:55,840
Speaker 1: Certainly the Chinese do this, And so if you look,

1515
01:31:56,040 --> 01:32:05,240
Speaker 1: I actually think that quite a few countries are handling

1516
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 1: him as if they have been briefed by somebody by saying,

1517
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:13,680
Speaker 1: how do you handle somebody with narcissistic personality disorder? So

1518
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:16,320
Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's good or bad. It just is.

1519
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:20,439
Speaker 1: I think it's probably been more bad than good because

1520
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:24,679
Speaker 1: it's come across as appeasement, and when he gets appeased,

1521
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 1: he takes that as a green light, not a yellow light.

1522
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Zach and he writes Trump's student

1523
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:35,719
Speaker 1: loan policy hasn't gotten much attention, but repayment is starting,

1524
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 1: is restarting soon, possibly at higher rates, and there still

1525
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 1: seems to be no real plan. Sure loans should be

1526
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 1: paid back, but why not make payments more reasonable, lower

1527
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 1: college costs, or expand forgiveness and credit programs. We're underinvesting

1528
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 1: at every level of education, from K to twelve to

1529
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 1: graduate school. Take the doctor shortage for example. How can

1530
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:53,720
Speaker 1: people feel that need when med school can leave them

1531
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:56,360
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand in debt. Look, I completely agree, and

1532
01:32:56,439 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 1: I think that I think this is going to become

1533
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 1: a more explain issue because look, I've got a graduating

1534
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 1: senior this year and finding a job her and her peers.

1535
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,200
Speaker 1: This is not an easy environment. There's a lot of

1536
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 1: them already panicking. I'm trying to keep my daughter from

1537
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 1: panicking on this. But you know, these are for people

1538
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: looking for jobs in their field, right, even if it's

1539
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:26,639
Speaker 1: entry level jobs, and so that's it's been hard. Part

1540
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:28,760
Speaker 1: of it is AI. Part of it is sort of

1541
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 1: economic paralysis right now because of the international situation that

1542
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 1: Trump has created. We have a lot of businesses are

1543
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: afraid to do too much investment in one way or

1544
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 1: the other because nobody's quite sure which way the wind's blowing.

1545
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 1: So all of it has led to what feels like

1546
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 1: an employment pullback, right. A little bit of its AI

1547
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 1: contributed a little bit as the current sort of weak economy,

1548
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:57,519
Speaker 1: unstable international environment, mostly due to the American to US leadership.

1549
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:03,320
Speaker 1: That's a toxic mix here, and you're going to think

1550
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 1: have some angry young voters, and it should trigger some

1551
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,800
Speaker 1: policy ideas like the ones you're suggesting, whether it's you know,

1552
01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 1: I wish and this is where I thought Biden. Biden's

1553
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:19,000
Speaker 1: student loan policy was just terrible. There should have been

1554
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:29,880
Speaker 1: some sort of national service, uh contribution in exchange for

1555
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:32,080
Speaker 1: for getting some of your daddy raised. You know that

1556
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 1: it's a you know, a contribution to the public good

1557
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:39,559
Speaker 1: in some form or another. Volunteering, maybe it's a public

1558
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 1: works job. Maybe it's getting a medical education because we

1559
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 1: need more not just doctor's physician assistants for your nurses,

1560
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 1: et cetera. There's all sorts of ways that it could

1561
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 1: have been done in a way, and I think, frankly

1562
01:34:56,920 --> 01:34:59,200
Speaker 1: because of the of of what we're going to see,

1563
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 1: which is rising you unemployment, especially with folks under the

1564
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 1: age of thirty, that you know, the better presidential candidates

1565
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:12,840
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty eight will likely be thinking this way

1566
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 1: and making proposals on this. I know Wes Moore, if

1567
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,799
Speaker 1: he runs for president, he's a big advocate of national service.

1568
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:22,600
Speaker 1: He has started basically a pilot program that he'd like

1569
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 1: to take national in the state of Maryland. And it

1570
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:30,000
Speaker 1: is also tuition assistance and debt forgiveness is a part

1571
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 1: of it. So I think I suspect that this will

1572
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:39,160
Speaker 1: this will become more prominent more as the presidential primary

1573
01:35:39,160 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 1: campaign begins less so I think in the midterm elections.

1574
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 1: All right, next question comes from a school one of

1575
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:55,479
Speaker 1: the four the four c's I guess is Pomona anyway?

1576
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:58,320
Speaker 1: Ben from Colorado here originally from California. I was surprised

1577
01:35:58,360 --> 01:36:01,599
Speaker 1: to hear John Slavint Suggestsnia could become a swing state

1578
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 1: based on recent voter trends and pandemic migration. That feels

1579
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:06,680
Speaker 1: unlikely to me. Am I missing something? Also explained to

1580
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:09,280
Speaker 1: cancel high speed rail seems short sighted given its economic

1581
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:11,800
Speaker 1: impact on the Central Valley and continued public support. Thanks

1582
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:17,160
Speaker 1: and go Broncos both Denver and cal Poly Pomona. Well,

1583
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:21,360
Speaker 1: my producer Lauren is happy to hear a go Broncos.

1584
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: He's a big time Bronco fan. It is the Broncos

1585
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:27,400
Speaker 1: still being in the playoffs, is you know, getting in

1586
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 1: the way of our timing on certain tapics here? But

1587
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:39,760
Speaker 1: I kid, yeah, I think that's I never rule out

1588
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:47,599
Speaker 1: any state swinging a bit, but California seems I mean

1589
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:51,799
Speaker 1: the California Republican brand is terrible, right, Their current national

1590
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:56,640
Speaker 1: Republican brand does not play in California. If the Republican

1591
01:36:56,640 --> 01:37:00,439
Speaker 1: Party's brand were more Arnold Schwarzenegger, unless Donald Trump, and yeah,

1592
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:05,080
Speaker 1: California could get swinging, right, you know, But Arnold Swarzenegger

1593
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 1: was no ordinary Republican. If the Republican brand became more centrist,

1594
01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:14,880
Speaker 1: was seen as sort of the party of Silicon Valley

1595
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 1: and business in a way, but sort of wasn't antagonistic

1596
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 1: on immigration, and wasn't you know, I mean, Silicon Valley

1597
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:24,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't be half as powerful as it was without immigration,

1598
01:37:24,200 --> 01:37:27,559
Speaker 1: so it would be a natural place for a pro

1599
01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:31,800
Speaker 1: business party to go. Except nationally, this Republican party's pretty

1600
01:37:31,800 --> 01:37:38,680
Speaker 1: anti immigrant. So I think you're right right now. But

1601
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, look, I think any time you have a

1602
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 1: one party state, there's always a vacuum somewhere that's going

1603
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:49,760
Speaker 1: to get filled. I think it's still more likely we'll

1604
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:52,840
Speaker 1: get an independent kind of like you know, I've always

1605
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 1: viewed Schwarzenegger as kind of a quasi independent more than

1606
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:58,599
Speaker 1: he was a Republican, And he probably would have won

1607
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:01,599
Speaker 1: whether he ran as an eye or an not next

1608
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:02,920
Speaker 1: to his name, Shoot, he might have been able to

1609
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 1: win as a D next to his name. I still

1610
01:38:06,200 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 1: think if California doesn't elect a Democrat statewide in a

1611
01:38:11,360 --> 01:38:14,280
Speaker 1: race over the next ten years, it's because somebody won

1612
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 1: as an I I think, not because somebody won as R.

1613
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 1: That's my opinion, and I may be proven wrong on

1614
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:27,120
Speaker 1: that front. Look, the high speed railed situation in California.

1615
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:31,320
Speaker 1: I agree with you about the economic impact for the

1616
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:38,040
Speaker 1: Central Valley, but it has been a symbol of It

1617
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 1: is a negative symbol I think for the left, and

1618
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:43,400
Speaker 1: the inability goes it goes to why the abundance movement

1619
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:47,080
Speaker 1: has caught fire among some liberals when they're like, you know,

1620
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:51,400
Speaker 1: we can't just keep proposing ideas that take ten or

1621
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:54,519
Speaker 1: fifteen years. We've got to be able to bring these

1622
01:38:56,280 --> 01:39:02,840
Speaker 1: ideas to voters quicker and sooner. And how they do

1623
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,479
Speaker 1: that is I think, you know, if they'd done that,

1624
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 1: we might already have some high speed rail in California

1625
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:13,640
Speaker 1: that people would be happy with, right you know. You

1626
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:16,960
Speaker 1: know it's funny the Florida program got you know, it

1627
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:19,360
Speaker 1: never really took off, but then we got some private

1628
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 1: sector there's a thing called bright Line. It's actually starting

1629
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:31,599
Speaker 1: to get some consumer uptake, if you will, because hey,

1630
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:33,919
Speaker 1: it's great to be able to train from Miami to Orlando.

1631
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:37,880
Speaker 1: It's a heck of a lot easier than driving. And so,

1632
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, we still I think the concept of high

1633
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:45,599
Speaker 1: speed rail is still a popular idea, but I think

1634
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:50,040
Speaker 1: this was about how hard and how how poor the

1635
01:39:50,080 --> 01:39:54,599
Speaker 1: implementation process has been. All right. Last question comes from

1636
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:56,800
Speaker 1: David P. And Scottsdale. He says, you recently outlined three

1637
01:39:56,840 --> 01:39:59,160
Speaker 1: likely midterm outcomes, but I think the most probable is

1638
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:03,120
Speaker 1: a constitutional crist where Magoline leaders, led by the speaker

1639
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:05,360
Speaker 1: refuse to certify new members from blue districts. Trump has

1640
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:07,880
Speaker 1: shown he'll do anything to hold power, and dismissing this

1641
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:10,040
Speaker 1: as overblown seems naive. What's your take? Love the show,

1642
01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:14,160
Speaker 1: David P. Scottsdale. Here's the thing, you know, I had

1643
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:15,880
Speaker 1: a friend of mine say to me once he goes,

1644
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest mistake we make with Trump failure

1645
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 1: of imagination. January six is one of those that's failure

1646
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 1: of imagination. But then again, what did I begin this

1647
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:32,679
Speaker 1: podcast with Taco Thursday? Trump always chickens out. Well. January

1648
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 1: six is a perfect example of a way that he

1649
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 1: both does and doesn't. Right, Trump chickened out on January sixth.

1650
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 1: You know, I've always that the next interview I ever

1651
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:43,840
Speaker 1: do with Donald Trump, if I do another interview with

1652
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:48,120
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, miss President, love to sit down with you.

1653
01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 1: But one of the questions I'd ask about January six

1654
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:55,960
Speaker 1: is why you didn't follow through? Why'd you choke? Why

1655
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:58,519
Speaker 1: didn't you fire the attorney general? Why didn't you fire

1656
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:02,439
Speaker 1: the Defense secretary? Why you vote the Insurrection Act? All

1657
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:04,720
Speaker 1: the things he said he could have done? Why did

1658
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:09,599
Speaker 1: he do it? Now? I've heard him recently somebody kind

1659
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:11,000
Speaker 1: of you know, he said, well, I guess I should

1660
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:13,599
Speaker 1: have seized the voting machines. You're like, oh boy, Right,

1661
01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 1: So I say all that because he simultaneously usually chickens

1662
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 1: out and is willing to touch the hot stove too long. Right,

1663
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 1: That's sort of his I guess that's his great superpower

1664
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:28,920
Speaker 1: is is he is convinced people.

1665
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 2: He he.

1666
01:41:31,320 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: That he's all words and no action, and he's convinced people. Well,

1667
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:40,439
Speaker 1: there's nothing he wouldn't be willing to try either. But

1668
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:45,720
Speaker 1: I don't dismiss it. I don't think it's likely a

1669
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:52,439
Speaker 1: lot of it will depend on on what the people

1670
01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:58,479
Speaker 1: around him do. Right, A lot of this will be

1671
01:41:58,479 --> 01:42:03,160
Speaker 1: on Susie Wild's right. Mark Meadows, let every looney tuned

1672
01:42:03,160 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 1: person get into the president's here after the election in

1673
01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 1: twenty twenty and got him whipped up and got him

1674
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:14,360
Speaker 1: thinking all these conspiracies, and he'd borrow from it and

1675
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:18,280
Speaker 1: he'd go crazy. Do Susie Wilds have the same open

1676
01:42:18,280 --> 01:42:23,920
Speaker 1: door policy after the midterms, where he'll get looney tuned

1677
01:42:23,960 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 1: lawyers who will come in and say, you know what

1678
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:28,479
Speaker 1: you ought to do. Convince Mike Johnson not to accept this,

1679
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:33,559
Speaker 1: accept that, et cetera, et cetera. So I think we're

1680
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:37,400
Speaker 1: only in the situation you describe. If the battle for

1681
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 1: the House is under five seats, right, the Democrats have

1682
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:45,720
Speaker 1: a majority, that's five seats are less, then I'd be

1683
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:49,680
Speaker 1: worried about them not seating everybody and trying to do that.

1684
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 1: If it's a twenty to thirty seat pickup, I don't

1685
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:57,200
Speaker 1: know how you do it, you know, because it states that, yes,

1686
01:42:57,479 --> 01:43:00,639
Speaker 1: look the House of Representatives, you know, they they ultimately

1687
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:04,240
Speaker 1: can decide who's in and who's out. But it takes

1688
01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:08,640
Speaker 1: a majority. They barely have a working majority right now,

1689
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 1: and it isn't you know, the percentages aren't zero that

1690
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:19,400
Speaker 1: there are more Democrats in the House come November one,

1691
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:24,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty sixth than there are living Republicans right between

1692
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:30,840
Speaker 1: Actuary tables. Accidents, things we haven't thought about. You know,

1693
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:34,439
Speaker 1: somebody out of nowhere dropped out of a heart attack

1694
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:39,360
Speaker 1: in California's first congressional district. Suddenly they're short another member

1695
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:42,519
Speaker 1: of Congress. That could happen as easily on the Democratic side.

1696
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:50,679
Speaker 1: So I'm not dismissive and going to call I'm done,

1697
01:43:51,479 --> 01:43:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, to me after January sixth, we shouldn't have

1698
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:00,679
Speaker 1: a failure to imagine anymore with Trump, And I think

1699
01:44:00,720 --> 01:44:05,640
Speaker 1: that's why nobody was just dismissive of him talking about

1700
01:44:06,439 --> 01:44:11,880
Speaker 1: Greenland this time, as they were when he mused about

1701
01:44:11,920 --> 01:44:17,599
Speaker 1: Greenland during his first term. So I don't think it's likely.

1702
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:22,559
Speaker 1: I don't, but I think your scenario would concern me

1703
01:44:22,680 --> 01:44:29,639
Speaker 1: more if the margin, you know, is somewhere five seats

1704
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:33,280
Speaker 1: or less, and say in one seat in the in

1705
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 1: the SEC. All right, with that, I will put a

1706
01:44:42,520 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 1: pin in it. I feel like it's Thursday. I should

1707
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 1: do a little bit of sports. I can't, you know,

1708
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:53,920
Speaker 1: it's been in college football for umpteen weeks. But I

1709
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:57,639
Speaker 1: think I teased then I was gonna have some strong

1710
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:00,479
Speaker 1: opinions about the Baseball Hall of Fame. And it's not

1711
01:45:00,640 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 1: new to have sort of a hot take on the

1712
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:06,639
Speaker 1: Baseball Hall of Fame. And there's plenty of smart people

1713
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 1: and dumb people have made different proposals about what should

1714
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:16,160
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame do. And you know, us baseball

1715
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:18,840
Speaker 1: fans were weirdly more protective of the Baseball Hall of

1716
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 1: Fame than basketball fans are of the Basketball Hall of Fame. Which, man,

1717
01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:25,439
Speaker 1: you know, if you have a if you have a

1718
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:27,400
Speaker 1: ten year career and go to three All Star Games,

1719
01:45:27,400 --> 01:45:30,559
Speaker 1: you're going to make the Basketball Hall of Fame. In baseball,

1720
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:36,240
Speaker 1: that's never you know, that's you know, we expect something

1721
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:41,719
Speaker 1: more than that right there there. It feels always felt

1722
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:44,559
Speaker 1: a bit more lenient for the Basketball Hall of Fame

1723
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:50,920
Speaker 1: than with the Baseball Hall of Fame. And then the

1724
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:55,880
Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame is is they've they have

1725
01:45:56,000 --> 01:45:58,840
Speaker 1: a they sort of the criteria is a mess. Who

1726
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:02,720
Speaker 1: votes as a mess. There's sort of this committee that rotates.

1727
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:06,479
Speaker 1: You don't quite know who it is. Some sports writers

1728
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:10,479
Speaker 1: are a part of it, but they're not a biggest,

1729
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:15,280
Speaker 1: a bigger part of it. They have acknowledged that they've

1730
01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:19,160
Speaker 1: sort of there were times where they sort of undervalued

1731
01:46:19,439 --> 01:46:22,880
Speaker 1: certain positions. I think the Baseball Hall of Fame is

1732
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:26,360
Speaker 1: is much better about acknowledging every position and making sure

1733
01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:30,479
Speaker 1: that there are Hall of Famers on all levels. It

1734
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:33,160
Speaker 1: took a while for the for the prof Again, it's

1735
01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 1: not necessity technically an NFL Hall of Fame. It's a

1736
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:38,400
Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame. You know, they've been a

1737
01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:44,240
Speaker 1: little slow on the on punters and kickers. I was

1738
01:46:44,280 --> 01:46:47,320
Speaker 1: impressed that Devin Hester made it into the NFL Hall

1739
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 1: of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, where he was

1740
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:52,799
Speaker 1: primarily got there because he's considered the greatest kick returner

1741
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:57,920
Speaker 1: of all time. You know that is not it it is.

1742
01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:01,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of like if I think, you kick,

1743
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:03,120
Speaker 1: the best kick returner ought to be in the Hall

1744
01:47:03,160 --> 01:47:06,559
Speaker 1: of Fame, but there are you know, did he contribute

1745
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:09,719
Speaker 1: enough as a receiver to you know, he never would

1746
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:10,920
Speaker 1: have made it the Hall of Fame if you just

1747
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:14,840
Speaker 1: looked at him as a wide receiver. It's kind of

1748
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:17,400
Speaker 1: like the argument that gets made about relief pictures, and

1749
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:21,599
Speaker 1: I think the entire conversation about pictures and the Hall

1750
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:25,680
Speaker 1: of Fame is going to change because you know, you know,

1751
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:28,400
Speaker 1: most starting pitchers are only asked to go five or

1752
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:31,760
Speaker 1: six innings. So now the win, you know, first of all,

1753
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:33,840
Speaker 1: three hundred wins isn't going to happen, and even two

1754
01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 1: point fifty is probably going to be a rarity. Two

1755
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:38,760
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five wins is probably going to be

1756
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 1: the new marker, right, everybody with two twenty five or

1757
01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:45,400
Speaker 1: north will probably starting in the twenty first century, if

1758
01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 1: you will, we'll probably definitely get in. But wins in

1759
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:51,360
Speaker 1: general are seen is not as telling of a statistic

1760
01:47:51,400 --> 01:47:54,639
Speaker 1: as all these other stats that you have. I think

1761
01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:56,559
Speaker 1: the frustration with all of these Hall of Fames is

1762
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:59,800
Speaker 1: that there's no specific metric, right, you just sort of

1763
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:03,280
Speaker 1: know when you see it. It's always been ultimately for me,

1764
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:05,760
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame as a pornography is the old

1765
01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,120
Speaker 1: Supreme Court pornography test. You know when you see it,

1766
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:15,479
Speaker 1: which is why I struggled with the two inductees this week,

1767
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 1: Carlos Beltran and Andrew Jones. I'm a bigger proponent of

1768
01:48:21,240 --> 01:48:22,800
Speaker 1: Jones into the Hall of Fame than I would be

1769
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:29,080
Speaker 1: Beltran and it's just one of those things. Andrew Jones

1770
01:48:29,320 --> 01:48:33,280
Speaker 1: was might be the best defensive center fielder ever. And

1771
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 1: I think when you're ever known as the best of

1772
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:39,240
Speaker 1: something ever, Devin Hester kick returner, you know, you got

1773
01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:40,640
Speaker 1: to figure out how to get that person in the

1774
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:45,720
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. But then I think, you know, the

1775
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 1: more data we have now about baseball, the more data

1776
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:50,479
Speaker 1: that we use to determine who's good at this and

1777
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 1: who's good at that, it is it has increased the

1778
01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:56,240
Speaker 1: odds that the Hall of Fame is turning into the

1779
01:48:56,240 --> 01:49:01,320
Speaker 1: Hall of the incredibly good, but not necessarcessarily the best.

1780
01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 1: And I say that because and I think it goes

1781
01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:07,800
Speaker 1: to I don't know, I'm the Baseball Hall of Fame.

1782
01:49:07,840 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 1: I think has been devalued unintentionally by the decision by

1783
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:17,960
Speaker 1: sports writers to punish the known steroids guys. And the

1784
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:21,679
Speaker 1: decision to do that was done out of moral conviction

1785
01:49:21,800 --> 01:49:24,240
Speaker 1: that I respect, which was, hey, we got to the

1786
01:49:24,280 --> 01:49:27,360
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame should be reserved. No cheaters allowed, right,

1787
01:49:27,439 --> 01:49:33,160
Speaker 1: that's bottom line, right, no cheaters allowed. The question is

1788
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:38,120
Speaker 1: what's the definition of cheating? Right, And that's you know,

1789
01:49:38,360 --> 01:49:41,439
Speaker 1: if you took amphetamines with coffee. You know, they're in

1790
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:44,080
Speaker 1: the sixties, and I remember, I think this was in

1791
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:49,720
Speaker 1: the Ken Burns Baseball documentary. You know, there was a

1792
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 1: special coffee, right, and it was essentially emphetamines mixed with

1793
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:58,280
Speaker 1: caffeine that players took because it was a long season

1794
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:01,680
Speaker 1: and he needed a jolt of energy. Is that a

1795
01:50:01,720 --> 01:50:05,679
Speaker 1: performance enhancing drug? Right? Where do you draw the line

1796
01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:09,639
Speaker 1: on that, you know? And that's where I think there's

1797
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:15,120
Speaker 1: always been more gray area with this. I think if

1798
01:50:15,120 --> 01:50:17,640
Speaker 1: you cheat after the league puts in a rule that

1799
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:20,960
Speaker 1: it's cheating, then that's one thing. But when you had

1800
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:26,439
Speaker 1: this gray area for so long and these guys sort of,

1801
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:36,839
Speaker 1: you know, found ways around it again, it obviously created

1802
01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:38,840
Speaker 1: a bit of a crisis. So we have all these

1803
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:41,680
Speaker 1: famous players from the nineties not in the Hall of Fame, right,

1804
01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:48,559
Speaker 1: Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palm, Merrow, Mark McGuire, who

1805
01:50:48,600 --> 01:50:51,360
Speaker 1: were the most famous baseball players of the nineteen nineties.

1806
01:50:54,720 --> 01:50:56,519
Speaker 1: And it gets to the other part of the name

1807
01:50:56,600 --> 01:51:01,479
Speaker 1: of the thing. It's called the Hall of Fame, not

1808
01:51:01,640 --> 01:51:09,120
Speaker 1: the Hall of purity. And I wonder if we are

1809
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:12,160
Speaker 1: in some ways going out of our way to reward

1810
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:15,120
Speaker 1: collectively and I say we, I mean sort of the

1811
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:18,639
Speaker 1: baseball community. I'd love to get a vote. I'd love

1812
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:22,720
Speaker 1: to but my late great friend Tim Russard was on

1813
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:26,840
Speaker 1: the was on the Cooperstown Committee of some form or another. Man,

1814
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:28,920
Speaker 1: sign me up if I could ever get a piece,

1815
01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:36,880
Speaker 1: get on that. But it you know, there's a I

1816
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:39,600
Speaker 1: think what's fun about the Hall of Fame is twofold

1817
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:45,120
Speaker 1: and it's something that I wish more of these leagues

1818
01:51:45,120 --> 01:51:49,240
Speaker 1: would embrace. And it at its root it goes to

1819
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:52,040
Speaker 1: an idea that Bill Simmons I think once did out

1820
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:54,880
Speaker 1: of page two way back when when he he wanted

1821
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:57,519
Speaker 1: to do these pyramids or I think levels, Right, you're

1822
01:51:57,560 --> 01:51:59,840
Speaker 1: a top of the pyramid or you know you could

1823
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:02,600
Speaker 1: I'm up with it is five star right, Like you

1824
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:07,720
Speaker 1: know you're a Hall of Famer, But are you a

1825
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:11,439
Speaker 1: are you in the Silver Diamond Club wing of the

1826
01:52:11,479 --> 01:52:14,040
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame or are you just in the regular

1827
01:52:14,120 --> 01:52:15,439
Speaker 1: wing of the Hall of Fame?

1828
01:52:15,720 --> 01:52:15,960
Speaker 2: Right?

1829
01:52:16,760 --> 01:52:19,920
Speaker 1: And it would be fun to debate, Hey does so

1830
01:52:20,080 --> 01:52:24,400
Speaker 1: and so belong in this upper tier, the middle tier

1831
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:29,240
Speaker 1: or the lower tier? Right? And you can and you know,

1832
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:32,880
Speaker 1: to me, if you want to make the Hall of

1833
01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:38,479
Speaker 1: Fame relevant to fans today and fans of yesteryear. What

1834
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:41,880
Speaker 1: is great about it are the debates. It's having the debate.

1835
01:52:42,320 --> 01:52:45,280
Speaker 1: So on one hand, I'm glad that we can have

1836
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 1: a debate about Beltran and Jones. And you know, look,

1837
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:50,679
Speaker 1: it looks like Chase Utley is on the way there.

1838
01:52:50,760 --> 01:52:55,400
Speaker 1: Andy Pettitt, adding, Pettit is close to getting fifty percent

1839
01:52:55,439 --> 01:52:59,040
Speaker 1: of the vote this time. Does he have a chance.

1840
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 1: It was interesting reading and Rosenthal about Andy Pettitt because

1841
01:53:02,240 --> 01:53:04,400
Speaker 1: there's always been this question with Pettit. One is there's

1842
01:53:04,400 --> 01:53:06,920
Speaker 1: always been a little bit of association, you know, did

1843
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:10,599
Speaker 1: he did he? Did he take whatever Clemens was doing?

1844
01:53:13,040 --> 01:53:15,400
Speaker 1: But I think the bigger question mark on Pettitt is

1845
01:53:15,439 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 1: the same question you could have about Kurt Shilling, although

1846
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:22,760
Speaker 1: I think politics is why Shilling isn't in, which is

1847
01:53:22,760 --> 01:53:27,120
Speaker 1: how much should the postseason matter when you make it,

1848
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:29,960
Speaker 1: when you decide whether somebody's Hall of Fame worthy. Andy

1849
01:53:29,960 --> 01:53:36,479
Speaker 1: Pettitt's postseason record is unbelievable, and it's and so's Kurt Shilling, right,

1850
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:41,280
Speaker 1: and so should that? You know, not every player like

1851
01:53:41,280 --> 01:53:43,320
Speaker 1: a Ted Williams never got to play in the postseason,

1852
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, so is it is it fair. Is it unfair?

1853
01:53:49,160 --> 01:53:51,640
Speaker 1: Is it unfair to those that don't get to the postseasons?

1854
01:53:51,680 --> 01:53:52,840
Speaker 1: It's not everybody gets there.

1855
01:53:55,320 --> 01:53:55,519
Speaker 2: Two.

1856
01:53:55,880 --> 01:53:57,920
Speaker 1: You know that that a player that happens to be

1857
01:53:57,960 --> 01:54:00,640
Speaker 1: playing for the Dodgers or the Yankees, who frequently make

1858
01:54:00,680 --> 01:54:04,280
Speaker 1: the postseason, they have a better chance at getting opportunities

1859
01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:07,840
Speaker 1: for postseason immortality, which then, of course gives them a

1860
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:11,240
Speaker 1: better chance at getting into the Hall. Well, if you're

1861
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:14,720
Speaker 1: you know, I guess as a player, it's on you

1862
01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:17,800
Speaker 1: to help lead your team to the playoffs, right, So I,

1863
01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of think the postseason ought to

1864
01:54:21,200 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 1: get there. But what was interesting about the Ken Rosenthal

1865
01:54:25,160 --> 01:54:28,920
Speaker 1: column in The Athletic this week explaining his ballot, explaining

1866
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:33,360
Speaker 1: his rationale, Like, for instance, he suddenly decided, you know,

1867
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:36,240
Speaker 1: the Felix Hernandez, Right, Felix Hernandez is one of those

1868
01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:38,760
Speaker 1: Did he have a long enough career? Right? There was

1869
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:41,160
Speaker 1: no doubt for about six years, it was a given

1870
01:54:41,200 --> 01:54:42,880
Speaker 1: he was the best pitcher in baseball. You're like, man,

1871
01:54:43,080 --> 01:54:45,520
Speaker 1: poor Seattle. But he was in Seattle, Right, had he

1872
01:54:45,600 --> 01:54:47,720
Speaker 1: been in Boston or New York, he'd probably already be

1873
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:51,240
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. Right, He's who would you

1874
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:55,640
Speaker 1: rather have pitching CC, Sabbathi or Felix Hernandez in their prime?

1875
01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:58,360
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a it's not even a it's

1876
01:54:58,640 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 1: to me, it's not even close. Look, I love CC,

1877
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:06,640
Speaker 1: He's one of my favorite players. I enjoy CEC, I

1878
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:11,920
Speaker 1: enjoy hearing him, I love his story. But man, kim

1879
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:18,320
Speaker 1: me Felix right that I'd have definitely gotten him. And

1880
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:21,480
Speaker 1: I think CC benefited from being Yankee right and having

1881
01:55:21,520 --> 01:55:25,200
Speaker 1: more opportunities in the postseason. But what was interesting is

1882
01:55:25,200 --> 01:55:28,360
Speaker 1: is as we reassess what pictures get in, right, when

1883
01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:34,680
Speaker 1: the markers of three thousand innings or three thousand strikeouts

1884
01:55:35,080 --> 01:55:37,959
Speaker 1: or I guess it's two thousand innings, three thousand strikeouts,

1885
01:55:38,000 --> 01:55:41,320
Speaker 1: three hundred wins, when those markers are sort of less relevant,

1886
01:55:41,400 --> 01:55:44,760
Speaker 1: less likely because we now have five man rotations, we

1887
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 1: now have specialty relief pictures. And what are we going

1888
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:50,640
Speaker 1: to do about that? It took us forever to decide

1889
01:55:51,040 --> 01:55:54,800
Speaker 1: should closers get in? And then we've seen over time

1890
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:57,880
Speaker 1: the best closers of every decade find their way into

1891
01:55:57,880 --> 01:56:02,000
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. What do you do about the

1892
01:56:02,080 --> 01:56:06,600
Speaker 1: guys in between? The great hold guys? Right? Are they

1893
01:56:06,600 --> 01:56:10,920
Speaker 1: going to get some consideration, you know, or are you

1894
01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:12,600
Speaker 1: going to have to be a closer. Are you're going

1895
01:56:12,640 --> 01:56:16,400
Speaker 1: to have to have saves in order to get there?

1896
01:56:17,760 --> 01:56:19,160
Speaker 1: Because I do think the Hall of Fame ought to

1897
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:23,520
Speaker 1: reflect the game that is played in that era and

1898
01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:26,760
Speaker 1: how it was played in these days, bullpens matter more

1899
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:32,240
Speaker 1: than they ever have before, and specially pitching certainly matters there.

1900
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:36,440
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is how Rosenthal admitted it's made him

1901
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:40,240
Speaker 1: rethink certain guys that he dismissed as Hall of famers before,

1902
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 1: and pictures that he singled out were Mark Burley longtime

1903
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:50,480
Speaker 1: Chicago White Sox and Cole Hamill's Who's somebody who's when

1904
01:56:50,480 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 1: you look at him through a different prism, and particularly

1905
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:55,480
Speaker 1: with the postseason as well, you're like, hey, wait a minute,

1906
01:56:55,960 --> 01:56:59,360
Speaker 1: you know Hamil's is much closer to Hall of Fame

1907
01:56:59,400 --> 01:57:03,320
Speaker 1: worthy then you realize. But then there's another part of

1908
01:57:03,360 --> 01:57:05,320
Speaker 1: this that I don't know how you measure, but I

1909
01:57:05,320 --> 01:57:07,080
Speaker 1: think that matters in the Hall of Fame, which is

1910
01:57:07,120 --> 01:57:11,360
Speaker 1: really like did people want their baseball card? Were they

1911
01:57:11,400 --> 01:57:14,440
Speaker 1: considered where you were like, oh my god, we're facing

1912
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:19,480
Speaker 1: who tonight? You got to pitch around that guy? Or

1913
01:57:19,840 --> 01:57:22,040
Speaker 1: oh boy, so and so on to not ought to

1914
01:57:22,040 --> 01:57:24,240
Speaker 1: be further down the lineup because so and so is pitching.

1915
01:57:25,000 --> 01:57:28,760
Speaker 1: You know it is. And that's the pornography test, if

1916
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:32,480
Speaker 1: you will, uh to that that that's missing. So look,

1917
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:37,720
Speaker 1: I I think we're I think the all of the

1918
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:42,920
Speaker 1: Hall of Fames need a reboot. I think somebody ought

1919
01:57:42,920 --> 01:57:45,200
Speaker 1: to give Simmon some credit and that the idea of

1920
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:51,520
Speaker 1: creating different wings within the Hall of Fame would only

1921
01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:54,520
Speaker 1: spark more interest in the Hall of Fame. And you

1922
01:57:54,560 --> 01:57:57,320
Speaker 1: know what's more entertaining than a good debate, since we

1923
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:01,440
Speaker 1: if we're not going to debate who's in or who's out,

1924
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:04,120
Speaker 1: let's debate where do they belong? Do they belong in

1925
01:58:04,160 --> 01:58:06,800
Speaker 1: the top tier? And then you would get look, Bonds

1926
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:10,320
Speaker 1: and Clemens, they need to be in, but maybe you

1927
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:11,960
Speaker 1: don't put them. Well I don't know, am I going

1928
01:58:12,040 --> 01:58:14,360
Speaker 1: to put Clemens in the all time? You know in

1929
01:58:14,840 --> 01:58:18,680
Speaker 1: the sort of the the upper upper wing, you know,

1930
01:58:18,720 --> 01:58:21,960
Speaker 1: the ten you know that where maybe you only allow

1931
01:58:22,200 --> 01:58:24,480
Speaker 1: ten pictures at any one time in the in the

1932
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:26,800
Speaker 1: top ring of the Hall of Fame. You say, well,

1933
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:28,840
Speaker 1: we don't know how much how you know we know

1934
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:33,200
Speaker 1: he was Hall of fame worthy, but you know, then

1935
01:58:33,320 --> 01:58:35,680
Speaker 1: you use the steroid rumors as a way to not

1936
01:58:35,760 --> 01:58:38,160
Speaker 1: give him the top spot. Maybe you do the same

1937
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:43,120
Speaker 1: with bonds or with gambling with Rose, you do that.

1938
01:58:44,520 --> 01:58:46,160
Speaker 1: But I do think all of the Hall of Fames

1939
01:58:46,200 --> 01:58:51,720
Speaker 1: need a reboot. And I have to say, I think

1940
01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 1: I would also try to figure out how to have

1941
01:58:55,080 --> 01:59:02,480
Speaker 1: fans plus writers, plus executives plus current players to all

1942
01:59:02,600 --> 01:59:06,440
Speaker 1: have some say. I wouldn't want any entity to be

1943
01:59:06,560 --> 01:59:11,760
Speaker 1: the dominant portion of the electorate, but I'd love that

1944
01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:15,800
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame electorate should be twenty five percent fans,

1945
01:59:16,360 --> 01:59:17,920
Speaker 1: and it should be some sort of maybe you've got

1946
01:59:17,920 --> 01:59:20,800
Speaker 1: to pass certain baseball quizzes to qualify as a voter. Yes,

1947
01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:23,000
Speaker 1: I would have a poll tax for this. Maybe it's

1948
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:27,600
Speaker 1: twenty five percent baseball reporters, baseball writers, it's twenty five

1949
01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:33,160
Speaker 1: percent scouts and executives, and it's twenty five percent active players.

1950
01:59:34,840 --> 01:59:37,800
Speaker 1: And then maybe you you would have the committee former

1951
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:40,040
Speaker 1: Hall of famers be part of the different eras committees.

1952
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:43,480
Speaker 1: But all of these and I think about it in

1953
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:45,040
Speaker 1: the same way for basketball, and think about it the

1954
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:49,200
Speaker 1: same way for football. But in general, I think all

1955
01:59:49,200 --> 01:59:52,800
Speaker 1: of these need some reanimation, because I think it would

1956
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:56,280
Speaker 1: just bring more life into them. And the more debate

1957
01:59:56,360 --> 01:59:58,800
Speaker 1: you have about the Hall of Fame, the more interested

1958
01:59:59,400 --> 02:00:04,040
Speaker 1: people will in visiting the Hall of Fames, because guess what,

1959
02:00:04,680 --> 02:00:06,920
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, they're businesses and you

1960
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:10,480
Speaker 1: need more interest in your business. And in an odd way,

1961
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:15,800
Speaker 1: I think Baseball's made Cooper's Town less interesting because of

1962
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:21,280
Speaker 1: how they've kept certain people out and how they've it's like,

1963
02:00:21,320 --> 02:00:23,320
Speaker 1: it's weirdly, it's like they raised the barrier for some

1964
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:27,080
Speaker 1: and then lowered the barrier to entry for others. I

1965
02:00:27,160 --> 02:00:29,480
Speaker 1: think it's sent a weird message and it's just made

1966
02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:34,360
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame generally less relevant than I wish

1967
02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:38,680
Speaker 1: it were. All right, old man, sports rant is over

1968
02:00:39,280 --> 02:00:43,840
Speaker 1: with that. I hope you enjoy your weekend. Let's hope

1969
02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:48,040
Speaker 1: we don't stumble into any sort of geopolitical nightmares over

1970
02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:52,560
Speaker 1: the next ninety six hours. Please. I have my new

1971
02:00:52,600 --> 02:00:54,880
Speaker 1: Sphere show coming up this weekend. You can always check

1972
02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:56,480
Speaker 1: that out on the new Sphere app. I know I

1973
02:00:56,520 --> 02:00:58,840
Speaker 1: haven't promoted that a lot. I don't mean to not

1974
02:00:58,920 --> 02:01:01,320
Speaker 1: promote it here. I hope you've already checked it out.

1975
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 1: I know I get some questions based on that, so

1976
02:01:04,280 --> 02:01:08,000
Speaker 1: please do That'll be posting as always on Sunday night,

1977
02:01:08,360 --> 02:01:10,840
Speaker 1: so with that, I'll see you next week.