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Speaker 1: slash ft ball. All right, welcome to Hoops tonight here

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Speaker 1: at the Volume. Happy Friday, everybody. Hope all you guys

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Speaker 1: are having a great week. Well, the NBA GM Survey

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Speaker 1: Annual GM Survey came out out earlier this week, and

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Speaker 1: I have plenty of things that I'm kind of pissed

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Speaker 1: off about. So We're gonna bring my friend Claire to

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Speaker 1: Luna on the show. She also writes about the NBA

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Speaker 1: at the Guardian, Laker fan someone that we can talk

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Speaker 1: a little shit bit with as we try to sort

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Speaker 1: through this GM survey. Claire, how are you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to talk a little shit about this

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Speaker 3: GM survey with you. I also feel like, as a

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Speaker 3: Hoops Night fan, this is like very I feel like

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Speaker 3: I'm breaking the fourth wall. Like I watched Hoopsknit all

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Speaker 3: the time, so it's very surreal to have like entered

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Speaker 3: the Hoops Night universe.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited and we're gonna talk some basketball.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of fun. So by far,

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Speaker 1: the thing that pissed me off and you off the

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Speaker 1: most was and this has been kind of a theme

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Speaker 1: over the course of the last several years where I

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Speaker 1: feel like part of it is the Anthony Davis injury stuff.

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Speaker 1: Part of it is the Lakers don't have any good

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Speaker 1: defensive players aside from Anthony Davis, but he's been kind

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Speaker 1: of gen early is slipping to the bottom of a

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Speaker 1: lot of these like top defender discussions. But like I

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Speaker 1: understand that to a certain extent with it when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the Lakers, because I understand why the NBA

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Speaker 1: fan base at large kind of has some pushback with

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Speaker 1: Laker stuff because the Lakers get outsized coverage, they get

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Speaker 1: a ton of attention. They're always on the thumbnail, they're

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Speaker 1: always on the title, they're always on ESPN. Not in

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Speaker 1: a way that makes sense with how successful they are

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Speaker 1: in the league. So I understand that. But with the

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Speaker 1: GM survey in particular, I think that this would reflect

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Speaker 1: a little bit differently. And we had the who is

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Speaker 1: the best defensive player in the NBA category. The Jams

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Speaker 1: voted for Victor, which is not surprising, but Anthony Davis

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Speaker 1: received just two votes. Draymond Green receives zero votes. These

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Speaker 1: players all received votes. Drew Holliday got three votes, Herb

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Speaker 1: Jones two votes, Alex crusoe got to vote, Jada McDaniel's

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Speaker 1: got to vote, Marcus Smart got to vote for who

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Speaker 1: is the most versatile defender in the NBA. Ady and

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Speaker 1: Draymond to receive zero votes. The players that receive votes

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Speaker 1: O g n and Obe got four votes, and Ad

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Speaker 1: and Draymond got zero. Drew Holliday too, Jonathan Isaac too,

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Speaker 1: Herb Jones too, Jada McDaniels too, Alex crusoe, loudor Aaron Gordon,

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Speaker 1: Evan Mobley, Marcus Martin, and Jalen Williams all received one vote,

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Speaker 1: despite ad and Draymond receiving zero. Should Aid and Draymond

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Speaker 1: feel disrespected by how few of these NBA front offices

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Speaker 1: seem to actually value what they can do on a

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Speaker 1: basketball court?

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Speaker 2: Are you joking? I feel disrespected.

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Speaker 3: I'm not even Anthony Davis or Draymond Green, and I

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Speaker 3: feel like immensely disrespected by the Anthony Davis disrespect in particular,

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Speaker 3: Like it is unfathomable to me, Like I understand, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're both pretty clear I about this. As people who

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Speaker 3: generally root for Lebron and by proxy the Lakers, and

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Speaker 3: then you know, also are on the internet, we understand

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Speaker 3: that there's a very strong contingent of people who can't

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Speaker 3: stand the Lakers and Lakers fans. Sometimes they have a

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Speaker 3: good reason for that. Lakers fans can be pretty and

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Speaker 3: suffer boys and a lot of time with them, I'm familiar,

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Speaker 3: and they do get an outsized amount of coverage because

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Speaker 3: Lebron James is arguably the greatest player of all time

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Speaker 3: and he's still playing, and he plays for the Lakers,

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Speaker 3: and they have to sell commercial blocks on television, so

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Speaker 3: they're going to be talking about the Lakers quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: That being said, even keeping that.

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Speaker 3: Stuff in mind, it is mind boggling to me the

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Speaker 3: level of disrespect that Anthony Davis receives. He is, in

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Speaker 3: my you know, estimation, easily a top ten player in

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Speaker 3: the NBA on both ends of the ball, and of

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Speaker 3: all the you know, like defensive player of the Year

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Speaker 3: type candidates, he's got the biggest offensive load I think,

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Speaker 3: and has on the Lakers for his entire tenure. And

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Speaker 3: he's an incredibly versatile defender, and he is he's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: he's basically the Lakers defense. He is the defense. He's

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Speaker 3: a one man, you know, defensive machine. And all of

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Speaker 3: the other guys mentioned on this list have at least one,

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Speaker 3: if not several, really high level defenders around them, and

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Speaker 3: Anthony Davis is surrounded by minus defenders. I would say

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Speaker 3: Lebron has you know, a plus defensive upside. He wants

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Speaker 3: to when he wants to and when he can. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's turning forty this year. He can't do that every night.

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Speaker 3: So on any given night, in eighty two games, Anthony

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Speaker 3: Davis has essentially no help and still manages to, you know,

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Speaker 3: keep the Lakers. They should be a bottom if Anthony

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Speaker 3: Davis is the level that they are assessing him in

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Speaker 3: surveys like this, the Lakers should be like an absolutely

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Speaker 3: bottom of the league defense based on their personnel. But

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Speaker 3: they stay like around middle of the pack, a little

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Speaker 3: below middle of the pack generally speaking, which is a

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Speaker 3: goddamn miracle. And it's because Anthony Davis is their defense.

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Speaker 3: So it's just it's it's yeah, there's it defies explanation.

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Speaker 2: I would say, well, even with.

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Speaker 1: The starting lineup, that's Austin Reeves, who I think an

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Speaker 1: average to slightly above average defender, Dlo who's definitely below average,

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Speaker 1: Rue who's definitely below average, below average, and Lebron on

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Speaker 1: most nights it's like such an up and down thing

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Speaker 1: with his effort that I would just call him average.

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Speaker 1: And that team had a one to ten. That lineup

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Speaker 1: had a one to ten defensive rating in almost four

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Speaker 1: hundred minutes, which is a massive sample, and that's an

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Speaker 1: excellent defensive rating. Obviously they have their limitations, but that's

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Speaker 1: all Anthony Davis just anchoring all of that and putting

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Speaker 1: it together. The two things about this the way these

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Speaker 1: voting results came out that kind of irritate me. Is

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Speaker 1: one this like obsession with like the lanky wing or

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Speaker 1: like the three and d wing, and I like, I

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Speaker 1: get the importance of that type of player, the ability

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Speaker 1: to potentially guard multiple positions, just the length and how

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Speaker 1: that's valuable in rotation and defensive rebounding situations and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. But those defenders are so much more matchup dependent.

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Speaker 1: Like Jaden McDaniels, for instance, I think he's probably the

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Speaker 1: best perimeter defender in the league, and like Luca tossed

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Speaker 1: him around like a rag doll in the Western Conference

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Speaker 1: finals because he's two damn small. I like Herb Jones,

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Speaker 1: he can't guard some of these bigger forwards in the

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Speaker 1: league because they can just go right through them. I

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Speaker 1: like Drew Holliday and Lou Dort, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: the best pull up shooters in the league and just

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Speaker 1: shoot right over the top of him because they're too small.

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Speaker 1: I tend to think that like the big guys that

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Speaker 1: can also do other stuff are the most versatile. And

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Speaker 1: that's the part that blows my mind about the Draymond

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Speaker 1: and ad not receiving any votes, Like do people not

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Speaker 1: remember what Draymond did in the NBA Finals in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two. He can be this drop coverage big that

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Speaker 1: does all this stuff, but you can also plug him

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Speaker 1: in and helpside. I'm watching him in pre season ex

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Speaker 1: to tray Jackson Davis, and he's blowing everything up as

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Speaker 1: a low man, and then he switched on to Jalen

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Speaker 1: Brown for a good chunk of that series and guarded

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Speaker 1: him extremely well on the ball, like on the perimeter

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Speaker 1: Anthony Davis in the Lakers series, It's like, here's all

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Speaker 1: these different coverages we're trying to slow down Steph. And

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Speaker 1: then in Game four, the pivotal game of the series,

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Speaker 1: he switches on to Steph and gets back to back

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Speaker 1: stops on him, forces him into a one leg fade

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Speaker 1: away on the first possession, and the second one Steph

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Speaker 1: just chucked it up from like twenty seven feet because

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Speaker 1: he wasn't even gonna try to do something off the dribble.

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Speaker 1: And like, I think, like we've reached a point here

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Speaker 1: where it's almost like wishful thinking. It's like people are

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Speaker 1: hoping that Ad and Draymond will fall off, and yet

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Speaker 1: they're still here. They keep messing everybody's offense up. I

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Speaker 1: do think a big part of it is just that

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Speaker 1: like kind of anti California, anti warrior like er bias,

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Speaker 1: which I totally understand. But again, this is extending into

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Speaker 1: the front offices. So do you think that we're starting

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Speaker 1: to overvalue these like kind of versatile perimeter defenders when

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Speaker 1: we're having these discussions.

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Speaker 2: I think absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And I think you know, other things are coming into

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Speaker 3: play when people are making evaluations about A D and Draymond,

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Speaker 3: and Draymond's case, it's the off the court stuffer in

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Speaker 3: some cases, the on the court off the court stuff,

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Speaker 3: and with Ad it's this weird obsession people have with

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Speaker 3: his health and his tenacity and how much you can

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Speaker 3: stay on the court, which I mean, you know, several

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Speaker 3: years of his career, including last year, we're not an issue.

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Speaker 3: And so I think that is kind of of also

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Speaker 3: informing this bias, like people have preconceived notions about who

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Speaker 3: these players are and that impacts their estimation of them.

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Speaker 3: In Draymond's case, I find it a little bit more

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Speaker 3: understandable because it's it almost feels like people have kind

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Speaker 3: of just had it with him.

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Speaker 2: They've just like had it with.

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Speaker 3: The Shenanigans, and we're like, we're not going to give

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Speaker 3: you credit for what you're good at, while you're like

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Speaker 3: making it so hard to root for you. I don't

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Speaker 3: agree with that line of thinking, but I do understand it. However, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: with Ad, I think it's like, oh, he can't you know,

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Speaker 3: street close, Like he can't stay on the floor. He's

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Speaker 3: pretty much debunked bad at this point. You know, obviously

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Speaker 3: he hasn't put back to back seventy something plus game

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Speaker 3: seasons together in a while. But I think the hyperbole

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Speaker 3: is so outsized when you look at even this other

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Speaker 3: defensive Player of the Year or like best defender class,

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Speaker 3: you look at how many games those guys have played,

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Speaker 3: Like I was looking at this. He played the same

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Speaker 3: number of games as Rudy Gobert last year, seventy six games.

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Speaker 3: He played three more games than Yannis, five more games

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Speaker 3: than Bam and Victor, and seven more games than Drew Holliday.

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Speaker 3: So he played more games than everybody except for Rudy

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Speaker 3: Gobert in those that caliber of player last year. And

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Speaker 3: we're not sitting here being like, I don't know, can

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Speaker 3: Victor stay healthy for eighty two games? Like I'm that's

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Speaker 3: a concern of mine. He's like seven to six, Kenny,

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Speaker 3: stay healthy. We have almost no proof of that. We

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Speaker 3: have one year's worth of proof. So I just think

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Speaker 3: a lot of it is sort of self determined narratives

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Speaker 3: about who these guys are versus on the court production,

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Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people just genuinely don't

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Speaker 3: watch the Lakers. I think that's something that I've learned

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Speaker 3: from talking to a lot of people around the league

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Speaker 3: and trying to understand what this anti Anthony Davis bias

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Speaker 3: is about. I think a lot of people watch segments

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Speaker 3: on First Take about the Lakers, but they don't actually

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Speaker 3: watch the games, the regular season games, so they're not

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Speaker 3: seeing what we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Lakers had that bad stretch and it put

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Speaker 1: them below I think they got down below the eight seed.

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Speaker 1: I think at one point they dropped down to like

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Speaker 1: nine or ten in the standings, and then it was

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Speaker 1: like everyone just automatically wrote them off and it just

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Speaker 1: didn't matter what they did the rest of the year.

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Speaker 1: We weren't even halfway through the season when that.

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Speaker 3: Happened, and they're like, oh, there was a plan team,

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Speaker 3: They're a play in team, and what I've you know,

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Speaker 3: the conversation that I appreciate that you have on this

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Speaker 3: podcast as well, is like what constitutes a play in

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Speaker 3: team in the Western Conference and in the Eastern Conference

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Speaker 3: are just worlds apart, and I feel like that never

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Speaker 3: factors into the conversation. I believe they won forty seven

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Speaker 3: games last year. That's a lot of games, you know,

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Speaker 3: that's comfortably over five hundred, not to mention the fact

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Speaker 3: that they ended the year as a seventh seed, which

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Speaker 3: pre play in tournament. Is just in the playoffs, they're

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Speaker 3: just a playoff team. They're one through eight, best eight

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Speaker 3: teams in the conference. And that's with the margin for

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Speaker 3: air being I think it was like maybe three games

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Speaker 3: between the four seed and the ten seed, so it

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Speaker 3: was just a ridiculous margin for air.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that sort of well, they're in

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Speaker 2: the playing tournament every year.

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Speaker 3: That's the That's the sort of start and end of

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Speaker 3: the conversation. When really there's as many things on the

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Speaker 3: internet a lot more nuanced to.

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Speaker 2: It than that.

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Speaker 3: But why include nuance when you could just truncate a conversation.

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Speaker 1: Would you could talk shit? Yeah, The easiest way I

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Speaker 1: can explain it is there will be three play in

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Speaker 1: teams this year in the Eastern Conference that are bad teams.

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Speaker 1: There will be three teams in the Western Conference that

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Speaker 1: completely miss the play in that are good teams. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like that that's the difference between that there are thirteen

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Speaker 1: good teams in the West and there are seven in

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Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference. Like that is that is going to

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Speaker 1: be like, like, I like, who's going to be a

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Speaker 1: more It'll be really interesting to see. But who will

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Speaker 1: be like a more scary team to play night and

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Speaker 1: night out this year? The Atlanta Hawks, who are got

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Speaker 1: like kind of like the eight team in the East,

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Speaker 1: or the San Antonio Spurs, who most teams view as

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Speaker 1: like most people view as like the thirteenth team out west.

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Speaker 1: Like the Spurs are honestly with Wenmby a little scarier

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Speaker 1: to me for sure to play on a night in

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Speaker 1: and it's Wenby Harrison Barnes, Chris Paul Like that's a

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Speaker 1: lot to deal with compared to Trey Young and Jalen Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Like it's just yah, I like the Hawks, but like that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just that's the difference in talent level that we're

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Speaker 1: working at with here. So yeah, the next I had

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Speaker 1: five total that I took out of the survey that

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Speaker 1: I thought were fascinating among NBA gms or whoever it

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Speaker 1: is that works in their front office that they allow

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Speaker 1: to fill out these surveys. SGA received forty percent of

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Speaker 1: the votes for who will win MVP, with Luca right

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Speaker 1: behind him at thirty percent. I actually was looking at

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Speaker 1: this and I was like, is SGA just the obvious

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Speaker 1: MVP front runner this season? With how things are shaken

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Speaker 1: out for Oklahoma City?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think he's an obvious MVP front runner.

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Speaker 3: I would I will caution that Luca was the MVP

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Speaker 3: front runner going into I think the last five seasons

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Speaker 3: in a row. So there's just so much that can

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Speaker 3: happen and change. And I do think obviously they love

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Speaker 3: to reward a team Oklahoma City where like they did

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Speaker 3: it the right way, they built the right way, they

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Speaker 3: worked to the top conference. But they're also a very

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Speaker 3: even balanced, you know, well staffed team at the end

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Speaker 3: of the day, Like they have a lot of talent,

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Speaker 3: and they have a lot of the right talent, and

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Speaker 3: when there can be like a single solitary savior of

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Speaker 3: a team, I think that that ends up helping players more,

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Speaker 3: I don't see a candidate for that role as far

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Speaker 3: as like that MVP narrative emerging, but you never know.

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Speaker 3: I'm more of the opinion that it's going to be

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Speaker 3: Luca this year as long as Dallas is like top four,

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Speaker 3: top three in the West, because I think they like

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Speaker 3: to course correct, the voters do a little bit, and

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, shy of the defensive performance in

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Speaker 3: the conference finals, which I think everyone is still has

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Speaker 3: a bad taste in their mouth from that, Lucas showed

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Speaker 3: that he's like right there in the conversation for the

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Speaker 3: best player in the league right now, and I think

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Speaker 3: that you know, he's been up or in the top

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Speaker 3: three in voting several years, so it might just he

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Speaker 3: might just be kind of due by the voters estimation,

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Speaker 3: whereas Shae last year was his first year as an

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Speaker 3: MVP candidate, and it usually takes like a couple of

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Speaker 3: years of being a finalist before people actually break through

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Speaker 3: and win the award. I mean, I don't even know

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Speaker 3: how many years Joel Embiid was a finalist before he

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Speaker 3: won it. So if I had, if I was like betting,

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Speaker 3: I would choose Luca this year probably, But I think

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Speaker 3: Shaye is right there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on Luca to where if they

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Speaker 1: finish high up in the standings, he will get it

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Speaker 1: because it's like you said, it's like that solo savior

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Speaker 1: kind of concept. I think I had Dallas outside of

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Speaker 1: my top tier of contenders going into the season because

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Speaker 1: I just don't think they have as much talent as

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Speaker 1: a team like Oklahoma City or like the New York

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Speaker 1: Micks or some of the teams that I have above them.

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Speaker 1: And so that's where it gets tricky, is like if

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Speaker 1: Luca doesn't play like an absolute MVP, like just to

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Speaker 1: just kicks ass every single night, I don't think they're

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Speaker 1: going to get in the top two or three seeds

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Speaker 1: because the West is so stacked. Like you got you

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Speaker 1: gotta think like Oklahoma City, I think is gonna run

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Speaker 1: away with the one seed. And we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: them here in just a second a little more detail.

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Speaker 1: But like Memphis is younger and bigger, and like they're

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Speaker 1: gonna play harder on a night and night out basis,

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Speaker 1: like they're a team that could end up very close

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Speaker 1: to the top of the conference. Obviously, Minnesota with Anthony

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Speaker 1: Edwards is like this young ball of energy kind of

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Speaker 1: carrying things. So like if Dallas drops to four or five,

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Speaker 1: that's where I just I think it could get tricky

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Speaker 1: with Luca getting enough MVP consideration because that's the thing,

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Speaker 1: Like what holds Luke out of the MVP voting every

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Speaker 1: year is he hasn't had a dominant regular season in

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Speaker 1: the standings. Yeah, that's the reason why, Like it inevitably

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Speaker 1: kind of skews that way when I look at like

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Speaker 1: I look at Shae as like I like at Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: City is like Boston West, meaning like they have a

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Speaker 1: talent advantage, and I think that that could work against Shae.

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Speaker 1: But it's a little different because I think Boston has

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of like an equal opportunity, we're

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Speaker 1: all playing together, drive and kick kind of thing, whereas

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City kind of weirdly takes on a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of a heliocentric shay Ball kind of style. So

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Speaker 1: like I could see a universe where the Thunder wins

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Speaker 1: sixty games and Shay averages his you know, typical thirty

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Speaker 1: eight and five or whatever it is that he gets

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Speaker 1: to on efficiency, and like I just like I don't

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Speaker 1: think Tatum's going to get to thirty points per game

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Speaker 1: because of how much of an equal opportunity system it

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Speaker 1: is in Boston. I don't think that Dallas is going

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Speaker 1: to win enough games potentially, like so Giannis and the Bucks.

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Speaker 1: I think they're going to be a team that kind

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Speaker 1: of drops down the standings a little bit in the

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Speaker 1: Eastern Conference potentially. And so that just kind of it

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Speaker 1: just kind of feels to me, like that makes sense

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Speaker 1: to me that forty percent to thirty percent, because there's

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Speaker 1: always that chance that Dallas just has a really good

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Speaker 1: regular season, in which case Luca gets it like you,

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Speaker 1: I'm blinking on the phrase you use. But it's almost

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Speaker 1: like a continuation of what happened in the postseason. Like

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Speaker 1: it's like you carry a team to the finals and

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Speaker 1: then you have this dominant regular season. People add legitimacy

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Speaker 1: to it based on what they've seen you do at

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Speaker 1: the higher stages. That ends up getting you more leeway

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Speaker 1: with the voters. So it definitely feels like between those

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Speaker 1: two I would get I would say like, let's just

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Speaker 1: do let's do this. This is a last little question

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Speaker 1: in this topic. If you had to choose between Shay

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Speaker 1: and Luca or the field for MVP, who would you take?

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Speaker 2: I would I would choose either Shay or Luca or

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Speaker 2: you mean, like if I had to pick one, or

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Speaker 2: pick the field.

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Speaker 1: Those two or the field.

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Speaker 2: That's really tough.

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Speaker 3: Because I was going to say, there's a there's a

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Speaker 3: good Anthony Edwards argument as well, because I think that,

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Speaker 3: again from a narrative perspective, like that would be really

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Speaker 3: beneficial for the league if he has like a break,

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Speaker 3: like an ascendant like I'm the best player in the

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Speaker 3: league type of season. And I would say if the

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Speaker 3: Timberwolves by some miracle, I don't think this is going

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Speaker 3: to happen, but if they end up as the one

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Speaker 3: seed in the West, I think that the Anthony Edwards

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Speaker 3: noise will be very loud for MVP, especially because I

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Speaker 3: think everyone pretty much agrees they got worse. So I

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Speaker 3: think his case would be even stronger this year. But

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Speaker 3: I think i'd probably take Shay over the Field just

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Speaker 3: because I think, barring some really unforeseen plot twist, I

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Speaker 3: don't see anyone else being the number one seed in

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Speaker 3: the West.

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Speaker 2: I really I just don't see it happening.

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Speaker 3: I would say I would give Memphis a better chance

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Speaker 3: than Minnesota just because I think they're hungry or for

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Speaker 3: that distinct honor versus I think Minnesota has now had

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Speaker 3: a really healthy taste of the postseason, and that's more

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Speaker 3: they're ready and they have some bets. So I think

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Speaker 3: they're going to be focused on like staying healthy, staying

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Speaker 3: ready for staying in that one through four seed if possible,

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Speaker 3: that home court advantage, seating, But like, I don't think

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Speaker 3: they're going to be prioritizing having people take them seriously

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Speaker 3: and thus getting the one seed. I think Memphis is

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Speaker 3: really on like a revenge tour, like you forgot about us,

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Speaker 3: but we're back kind of season. So I think I

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Speaker 3: would take Shay just from that seating perspective.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I agree that. The simplest way that

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Speaker 1: I could put it is like that he's going to

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Speaker 1: have a very good MVP case under any circumstances, barring

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Speaker 1: it an injury, so like it's really somebody else has

433
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 1: to come up with a better case than best player

434
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: on the best team in the Western Conference. Like that,

435
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: that's just kind of the way I think it's naturally

436
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: going to shake out this one. I'm I think you're

437
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 1: going to be surprised at the stance that I take,

438
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 1: But Jason Tatum was the runaway best small forward in

439
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: the NBA, receiving forty seven percent of the votes, well

440
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: ahead of Lebron James and Kevin Durant. Do you think

441
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum is the best small forward in the NBA?

442
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 3: I like, really, I hemmed in hod over this one

443
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 3: because it really defined, like it calls into question like

444
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 3: what is best and what do you prioritize and best?

445
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 2: And is best?

446
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 3: Like you need a guy who's going to play eighty

447
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 3: two games and who has a really really high floor

448
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 3: and who at worst is probably going to get you

449
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 3: like fifteen and fat, you know what I mean, Like

450
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 3: on his worst, like disaster of a night, he's still

451
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 3: going to be very productive. Like yeah, I don't think

452
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 3: there's anyone in the league I would take over him

453
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 3: in that respect. My personal definition of best is like

454
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: the highest ceiling, and I don't think he has that,

455
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 3: So that's what's tough for me. I would say my

456
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 3: cop out answer is I would pick Luca because I

457
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: don't consider Luca a point guard. I consider him a

458
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 3: small forward. So that would be my cop out version

459
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 3: of the answer. The second caveat would be in a

460
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 3: series or in a single game. I still think Lebron

461
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 3: is the best in the league, and I don't think

462
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 3: it's particularly close in a vacuum like we saw in

463
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 3: one Olympic game or in one postseason series. Taking into

464
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 3: consideration four playoff rounds and eighty two games, you'd probably

465
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 3: want Jason Tatum over anyone else if you don't consider

466
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 3: Luca down to is a small forward. So that's my

467
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 3: long rambling very a lot of qualifications.

468
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: Answer to that question, Well, most basketball coaches would tell

469
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: you your position is who you can guard, and Luca

470
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,239
Speaker 1: can't guard point guards, so that would mean he's more

471
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 1: of a forward. So on that front, most coaches would

472
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: agree with you. I you know, it's funny. I'm with you,

473
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 1: like one game tomorrow, one series tomorrow. The only guys

474
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: I'm taking over Lebron are Luca and Jokic right now,

475
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: and I think he's pretty close to those guys if

476
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: he's healthy and he's ready to go for that two weeks.

477
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: Like that two week battle, I want Lebron, Katie and Tatum.

478
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: It's a little bit more of a toss up for me,

479
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: but I might lean slightly towards Katie that said, like

480
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: to start a season. I just think it's clearly Tatum. Yeah,

481
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: I think that. I think that his motor at this

482
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: point in his career as a twenty six year old

483
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 1: six foot ten just beast of an athlete that can

484
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: guard all these different positions. And like the Celtics, there

485
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: are all these looks that teams will use as like

486
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: trump cards in specific like tight spots where it's like

487
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: even when he was younger, remember it'd be like, Okay,

488
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: we're gonna put Lebron in the point guard, or we're

489
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: gonna put Lebron on the center. We're gonna do this

490
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: or whatever we're gonna do. But like Jason Tatum guards

491
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: centers for the Celtics regularly throughout the regular season. That's

492
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: such an insane value add in terms of like just

493
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: a card that you can go to. I have a

494
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: feeling too, similar to what we talked about with Draymond

495
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: and ad where like a lot of people are using

496
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: some surrounding circumstances to kind of diminish who they are.

497
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: Tatum had a bad couple of months there, Yeah, in

498
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: the playoffs into Team USA, and I think it caused

499
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: a lot of people to kind of get off his

500
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: scent a little bit. Yeah, And I do think that

501
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: he's a much better a shooter than he's let on.

502
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: I do think that he's gonna continue to get better

503
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: as he gets into his late twenties. So, like, to me,

504
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: that made sense, Like if I was a GM and

505
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: I was starting a franchise today for this entire season,

506
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: I do think that Jason Tatum gives me a better shot,

507
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: just because he's got a little bit better chance of

508
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: making it through all of that basketball traffic between here

509
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: and June. But yeah, there's no doubt that if it's

510
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: a big game tomorrow, I want Lebron, a big series tomorrow.

511
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: I want Lebron. And like, one of the things that

512
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: I thought was fascinating too, I'm not sure if you

513
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: noticed this, but did you see how they had like

514
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: the like the regardless of position votes.

515
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't notice those.

516
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: So at the end of the positions, they just took

517
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: everyone's votes regardless of position and just stacked them. Okay,

518
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: And there were two things that were fascinating to that

519
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: to me about that Jokis was number one. The top

520
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: four matched my top fours Jokic, Yannis Luca and Shay.

521
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: They did have Janis over Luca, though, which I thought

522
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: was fascinating, and then they had Tatum at five. So

523
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: I interpreted that as like, these front offices view Tatum

524
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: as the fifth best player in the league, which I

525
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: think is a defensible place to put them. I think

526
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: there's the top four and I think there's a little gap.

527
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: And if you wanted to tell me Tatum was the

528
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: top of the next tier of players, I could totally

529
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: get behind that. Where do you have where do you

530
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: have Jannis and Luca? Do you have Janis over Luca

531
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: or vice versa?

532
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: I have Luca over Jannis right now.

533
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 3: I think Jannis, you know, is he is an incredible

534
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 3: athlete and he's a psycho competitor, and those are two

535
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 3: things that are like truly invaluable.

536
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: In the NBA.

537
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 3: I do think it's interesting that, like, if you actually

538
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 3: look at the totality of their careers, Yiannis has had

539
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 3: more injury issues than Luca has. That's shocking if you

540
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: just look at a what they look like objectively and

541
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 3: be like, who you would imagine takes better care of

542
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 3: their bodies. It's kind of crazy. But Jannis is an

543
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: injury risk at this point of his career, it's it's

544
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: not objectable, like when you've gotten too the playoffs. Even

545
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 3: the year that they won the championship, he had to

546
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: have a herculean effort to overcome an injury that I

547
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: thought was for sure a series ending injury. I mean,

548
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: he looked like an piece of origami that bent the

549
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: wrong way. I was like, that was to me, the

550
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 3: most impressive thing of his career was the way that

551
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 3: he came back for that injury. To you know, come

552
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: back and win four games in a row in the finals.

553
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 3: It's just like unfathomable. But I just feel like a Luca,

554
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: you know, as shocking as it may be, based on

555
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 3: the empirical evidence, you can count on him for longer

556
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: to be there through four playoffs series, which again makes

557
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: no sense, but that's just the truth of it. And

558
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 3: b like ball in his hands, game on the line.

559
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: Maybe that's not a metric that like matters to everyone,

560
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 3: but it is a metric that matters to me.

561
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: And I can't really think.

562
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: Of anyone in the league right now that would be

563
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: scarier for the other team in that scenario than Luca,

564
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: you know, So that matters a.

565
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: Lot to me.

566
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 3: Like, however, whatever internet cliche you want to use to

567
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 3: describe it, he's got that dog in him, He's got

568
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: that mom of mentality, whatever you want to use to

569
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: describe that phenomenon. Like Luca has it in spades, and

570
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 3: not that Yannis doesn't have it, but he's just not

571
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: someone who's going to like create his own shot in

572
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 3: that way.

573
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, the I always look at it from

574
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: the standpoint of team building, like, yeah, Jannis obviously brings

575
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: all of these motor things and this transition scoring and

576
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: this defensive kind of like help responsibility that he does

577
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: so well. And it's just that I can replicate most

578
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: of that through good roster building and attention to detail

579
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: with my coaching staff. Whereas whereas with Luca and his superpower,

580
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: which is the ability to create shots against elite defenses

581
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: in a half court, that is the thing that cannot

582
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: be replicated. I can't you can't. I can't drop a

583
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: set to get up an easy shot against an elite

584
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: defense in a five minute stretch at the end of

585
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: a game, Like, it's going to be really, really difficult.

586
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: That superpower is so valuable. One thing that I thought

587
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: was really interesting, did you notice that Janis was getting

588
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: a lot of votes in these defense categories, and like

589
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: Giannis is a very good help defender. When he's the

590
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: low man, he's very good. But in ball screens he's okay,

591
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: not great, And on the ball on the primitive he's okay,

592
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: not great. Like johannest to me, has the reputation around

593
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: the league. Yes, guys like Draymond and Anthony Davis should

594
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: have thought that.

595
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think here's what here's my hot, hottest take

596
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: on the GM survey and on a lot of these

597
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: kind of polling people don't watch games like that's such

598
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: a simple thing to say, but like so much of

599
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 3: this is so clearly based on narratives and hearsay, and

600
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: like a playoff series here and there, or like a

601
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 3: high profile Saturday night game here and there, as far

602
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: as like the eighty two games, these gms are watching

603
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: what's directly relevant to what's directly in front of them

604
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: for their own team.

605
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: Makes sense. They're pretty busy. They have a lot going on.

606
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: They're planning for the future, they're scouting for talent right now,

607
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: they're thinking about trades, they're trying to keep their superstars happy.

608
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: Like they have a lot going on.

609
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: So not to say that their opinions don't matter, but

610
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 3: I think that like people like us whose job it

611
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: is to actually watch the games, consume them, process them,

612
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: analyze them, have a lot clearer vision of what these

613
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: guys actually do and what they look like than somebody

614
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 3: in a you know, like front office position for a

615
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: specific team that doesn't maybe have the bandwidth or interest

616
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: in like consuming that many regular season games. So I

617
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 3: think that was a theme I saw throughout this GM

618
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 3: survey and that I see throughout a lot of these

619
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 3: types of surveys is like you guys aren't watching quite frankly,

620
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: because a lot of it is like a lot of

621
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 3: it feels like an echo chamber for like preconceived determinations

622
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 3: about these players that have existed for years, seasons on end. Now,

623
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 3: you know, like we've been hearing that Herb Jones is

624
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: like such an impressive cool defender for.

625
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: Years and it's not wrong. Did I he's good? He's good?

626
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 3: Did I feel like his season in New Orleans last

627
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: year made me feel like he deserves to be in

628
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: the same conversation even as like a bamm outa Bio

629
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: or Anthony Davis absolutely not but three years ago when

630
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: he actually blew people away as this role player who

631
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 3: ended up having a super high defensive ceiling, he cultivated

632
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: a reputation as a really good defender, and that reputation

633
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: carried through GM survey after GM survey when they're like,

634
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: oh shit, my GM surveys do again, Well, I need

635
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: to fill this thing out. So I just I take

636
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: all this stuff with a grain of salt, and I

637
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: think at the end of the day, you know, as

638
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 3: painful as it must be for guys who do get

639
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: kind of the short end of the stick in these surveys, like.

640
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: The Valario O'Brien is the best.

641
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 3: Way to shut people up at the end of the day, Like,

642
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: that's that's what they're everyone's after, and that's worth more

643
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: than any survey answer.

644
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: Is anybody gonna actually, with a straight face sit there

645
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: and say like, yeah, Herb Jones did more to anchor

646
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: the Pelicans defense last year than Anthony Davis did for

647
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: the Lakers. Like, I just I just don't get it.

648
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: I clear too. Like with Giannis in particular, I think

649
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: Yiannis is an awesome defender. I think he's in the

650
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: top tier of most versatile defenders in the league. My

651
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: thing is that, like, it doesn't make any sense to

652
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: me that he gets that respect, but guys like Anthony

653
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: Davis and Draymond who are just in that tier, but

654
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: I think both of them are better than Yannis. Yeah,

655
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: that those two guys don't get that reputation and that's

656
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: their job. Like Giannis, that's like something he does in

657
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: addition to everything he brings to the table. It's like

658
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: there is very much like a there's very much like

659
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: a culture that surrounds especially in NBA Twitter, where it's

660
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 1: like everyone's almost like trying to be out there with

661
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: their pick, like, oh, you know who I think is

662
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: the most versatile defender in the league, Jalen Williams in

663
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City.

664
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: And it's like, oh god, yeah for sure.

665
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is what it is, But I just

666
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: get annoyed. All right, we got two more for you, okay,

667
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: for who is the best international player in the NBA.

668
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: I was really fascinated by this one because I noticed

669
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of kind of like Luka momentum surrounding last year,

670
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people wishing on Yokic's downfall two and

671
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: kind of celebrating his loss in that second round series,

672
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: but eighty seven percent of the front offices voted Nikola

673
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: Jokic as the best international player in the NBA. So

674
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: kind of a dominant, you know, or I should say,

675
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: a clear sign that they view them as better than him,

676
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: as better than Luca. So do you agree that jokicch

677
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: is clearly the best player in the league over Luca?

678
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.

679
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 3: I think what happened in the playoffs though, that's really

680
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 3: interesting is Luca showed flashes of his ceiling, and Jokic

681
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 3: showed flashes of a floor that we haven't really seen before.

682
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: So he showed that.

683
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: He's he's beatable, which we haven't really seen from him

684
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: in a couple of years, because he's been operating his ceiling,

685
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 3: I think, and he's been making. The thing about Jokic

686
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: that I think made people so taken with him, and

687
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 3: myself included, is he would hit these shots Like I

688
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 3: had a tweet once that was like, Jokic looks like

689
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: a kid in a Disney movie.

690
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: Made a wish to.

691
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: Get the powers to play basketball because like, nothing he

692
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 3: does looks right and then it just goes in every time,

693
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 3: like he'll like the behind the head.

694
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 2: Like there was one there.

695
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 3: There's one really famous, you know shot of Anthony Davis

696
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: just like walking back in transition and shaking his head

697
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 3: after he hit that crazy shot over him and the

698
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: Conference finals a couple of years ago. But so, I

699
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 3: think Jokic has been operating at this like incredible ceiling,

700
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 3: and we saw flashes of what it could look like

701
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 3: when he's a little bit more vulnerable. Whereas Luca, we

702
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: knew that he had this theoretical ceiling, we hadn't really

703
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: seen it, and we really saw it, I feel like,

704
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 3: especially in like the Conference finals, he just dominated a

705
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: team that we had all pretty much been like, could.

706
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 2: They win it all? They could win it all, like

707
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: they could be.

708
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 3: Boston, and then he went in there and he said

709
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 3: absolutely not, not on my watch. And I think that's

710
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 3: what we were all waiting for from him. So yeah,

711
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: so I think there was definitely it was called into question. However,

712
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: we have a very large sample size at this point

713
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 3: that Jokic is the best player in the NBA, and

714
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 3: it's going to take a lot more than like one

715
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: kind of crappy playoff series, you know, or one and

716
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: a half kind of crappy playoff series for me to

717
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: hand that crown over to somebody else.

718
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: The way you put it, I think is super fascinating. Like,

719
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: we saw a glimpse of Yokic's floor in a way

720
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: that we haven't seen in a while, which was one

721
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: he wasn't as good defensively as he was in the

722
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: previous season. I think some of it was fatigue, but

723
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: like he looked pretty bad towards the end of that

724
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: well both series. I mean, the Lakers cut him up

725
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: to pieces too, didn't have a very good defensive postseason,

726
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: and then he can't shoot threes. That was the That

727
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: was the thing after he shot like forty six percent

728
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: on threes previous year, and it was a huge part

729
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 1: of his game, was like picking and popping, hitting those

730
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: threes and driving closeouts. And then against Minnesota, like they're

731
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, go ahead, shoot it, We're not worried

732
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: about you. So there definitely was like a little bit

733
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: of like Yokic's floor that we saw, and that is

734
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: completely worth acknowledging. But we also like his Game five

735
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: against the Timberwolves was one of the best games I've

736
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: ever seen any player ever play. Yeah, like that, like

737
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: that when he was just barbecuing Gobart on an island

738
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: one on one time and time again. We know that

739
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: he's capable of being at a higher level defensively, And

740
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: in spite of everything that went wrong, they were up

741
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: twenty in Game seven and a couple of things go differently,

742
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: they go on to Dallas, and I would have picked

743
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: them against Dallas. Yeah, And to your point, we got

744
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: to see a glimpse of Luca's ceiling. And what's interesting

745
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: with Luca too, is like his efficiency wasn't as good

746
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: as it typically isn't that postseason run. He was really

747
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: bad defensively. There were specific defensive matchups where he really struggled,

748
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: like lou Dort was causing him all sorts of issues

749
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: over the course of that Thunder series. So I agree

750
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: with you there's even like another level that he can

751
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: get to there.

752
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

753
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: But for me, the main thing with Jokic that I

754
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: think makes him better than Luca right now is I

755
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: think he can be deployed on a basketball team in

756
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: more ways. It can change the way he plays in

757
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: more ways. So for instance, on offense, like you can

758
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: force feed him in the post and he can go

759
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: to work on Gobert all night long. But he can

760
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: also be this like devastating five out folkrum where you're

761
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: running all these like screening options around him, and he

762
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: can make Michael Porter Junior a useful offensive player and

763
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 1: Contavious Cabo Pope a useful offensive player, and Aaron Gordon

764
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: even a useful offensive player. Like you couldn't play Aaron

765
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: Gordon in Dallas next to Derek Lively. It wouldn't work

766
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: in their system to have those two non shooters on

767
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: the floor at the same time with the way that

768
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: they play right and then on the defensive end of

769
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: the floor, like with Jokic, I feel like I can

770
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 1: construct a pick and roll defense with him with four

771
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: players around him and reach the status of elite defense.

772
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: I mean, hell Denver was a top ten defense last year. Yeah,

773
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: with Luca, like I can't hedge and recover with him

774
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: because he's too slow, I pretty much have to switch

775
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: him onto any ball screen, and in those situations he

776
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: gets beat off the dribble consistently, like any team that

777
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: can really space him out can look to attack him

778
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: in space. And so even though I think Luca has

779
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: like maybe even a tiny bit higher upside on offense

780
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: because he brings the ball up the floor, so he's

781
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: less prone to some of the stuff that big guys

782
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: can run into, like fronting the post or double teaming

783
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: post ups and things like that. Like even with that,

784
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: there's just so much more versatility that comes to the

785
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: table with Jokic, And like, I do think that's the

786
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: right decision. And of all the things that I disagreed

787
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: with these NBA front offices, that was one that we

788
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: were on the same page for.

789
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I totally agree.

790
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: And I think the other thing with Jokic that makes

791
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: him so incredibly special that to me is one of

792
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 3: the other things that makes Lebron so special is like

793
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: you know, this postseason is or I guess this year

794
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 3: his three point percentage is kind of bad like all

795
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: this last past season, but historically, like you said, he

796
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 3: has this crazy of forty percent from three.

797
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: That's his absolutely last resort.

798
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: That's if he can't facilitate a single other guy on

799
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: the floor first, you know what I mean, or get

800
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 3: to or get to the to the post or whatever

801
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 3: it is, Like he doesn't want to take that shot

802
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 3: that's like three seconds left on the shot clock, Like

803
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna shoot it, and I know I can

804
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 3: make it. That's devastating, Like how do you guard that,

805
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: you know, like you you try and turn him off.

806
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 3: He's one of the best passers, if not currently the

807
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 3: best passer in the league, So you're trying to turn

808
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 3: off the rest of the offense and make him take

809
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: his own shot. And he says, fine, I shoot forty

810
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 3: something percent from three. I can get to the post,

811
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 3: like nobody can guard me. So that's what makes them

812
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: so devastating. And I totally agree with you there that

813
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: Luca he doesn't have that entire tool set. He has

814
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 3: a lot of tools and he's they're very good. So

815
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: I think their neck and neck, and I think this

816
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: season will be like really telling as far as who

817
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: gets to like hold that distinction as the best player

818
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 3: in the league, because I don't think Yoka has.

819
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 2: It locked up by any means.

820
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: I agree that the three point shooting to me is

821
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: just a ceiling razor to your point, Like he doesn't

822
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: want to do that. He wants to roll because he's

823
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: so good with that floater in the role, Like, and

824
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: he shoots damn near seventy percent on it, right, and

825
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: that's actually worth you know, damn near one point four

826
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: points per shot, which you'd have to shoot an insane

827
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: percentage from three to hit that efficiency. He always likes

828
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: to do it as like a kind of like a

829
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: way to save energy. Yeah, and that's what I thought

830
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: was fascinating about that Game seven against Minnesota. In the

831
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: second half, he started popping because he was fucking tired.

832
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: He was tired, he was worn out, and so instead

833
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: of rolling, he was popping up out there and he

834
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: just couldn't knock the shot down. And so I said

835
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: this last year, but like, when he's hitting forty five

836
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: percent of his threes, he's far and away the best

837
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: player in the league and it's not close. And like

838
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: that's where it's like, what do you do with this

839
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: guy eighties walking down the floor shaking his head. There's

840
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: nothing you can do with this guy. It's with the

841
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: lack of the shot and the slight decline on defense,

842
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: he's come down to the pack. And I agree with you.

843
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: I think that that Jokic is surpassable now in a

844
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: way that he didn't used to be unless he somehow

845
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: regains a shot, and we'll see what goes on. I

846
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: know he's been dealing with some wrist stuff. There might

847
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: be an injury involved there as well. But yeah, I

848
00:40:52,960 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: agree this year is going to be very telling Dallas fans,

849
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: in particular, judging by my YouTube comments, I think that

850
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: Dallas is a better team than Denver, and so if

851
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: that's the case, let's see it manifest, and if it does,

852
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: maybe that will will come to fruition.

853
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 3: I think I'm someone who's pretty who's lower than the

854
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: pack on Denver this year. I don't think they're going

855
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 3: to be bad by any means. I think they're solidly

856
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 3: a playoff team. I don't think they're going to be dominant, though.

857
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of internal discord and turmoil

858
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: happening there. I think how long it took to get

859
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 3: Jamal Murray that extension was very telling, and I don't

860
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 3: think it was a coincidence. I think they desperately needed

861
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 3: a backup big, they drafted a great one, and he

862
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 3: got a season ending injury in NBA Summer League. I

863
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 3: think they've one by one lost some like really fundamental

864
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: players to that championship run and are counting on replacing

865
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: them with young guys who have definitely like shown flashes

866
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 3: of really high ceilings and like they can be really good.

867
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 3: But you saw the Warriors try and take that approach

868
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 3: of like that's cool, we'll just develop our young guys

869
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: internally and become you know, back to back champions that way,

870
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 3: and it's it is a riskier approach. And then I've

871
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 3: heard also rumblings that like Mike Malone in the front office,

872
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: the rest of the front office, there's been some headbutting there.

873
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 3: So I don't know that's maybe that's my hot take,

874
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 3: but my hot take for the season is that I

875
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 3: think Denvers might not have a great year.

876
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to be dominant, just simply

877
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 1: because the young teams at the top of the West

878
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: are going to play so much harder than them on

879
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: a night in, a night out basis. I think people

880
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: are underrating how exhausted they were just by the long

881
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: playoff round the year before. And they've got like some

882
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: guys too that like Cacp's a little older now, gets

883
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: a little banged up. Jamal Murray had that calf injury

884
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: against the Lakers, and it's like everything seemed to go

885
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: wrong and then they were up twenty in Game seven.

886
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: You know, it could have gone it could have gone

887
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: a different way. I do agree with you that I

888
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: don't expect them to be dominant. I do think they're

889
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: a better team than Dallas, though, and I think that

890
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: that will show throughout the season. Also, Christian Brown getting

891
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: plugged into the starting lineup in a weird way. He's

892
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: a bigger, better athlete than KCP, than a higher motor guy.

893
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: And the discord you're talking about the front office or

894
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: within the organization, one of the big things that I've

895
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: been hearing is just in general, the front office is

896
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: desperate for Mike Malone to play more the younger guys,

897
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: and Mike Malone is is very much like a veteran guy.

898
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: He wants to play his vets. All you have to

899
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: do is go look at how much Peyton Watson was

900
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: playing in the regular season in the playoffs. It is

901
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: it was super, super confusing, and it's like that that

902
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: could be a big swing for Denver and the standings

903
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: this year. Is like, if they play their young guys more,

904
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: I think they might actually win more regular season games

905
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: because guys like Peyton Watson, they're like immensely valuable in

906
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: regular season NBA basketball, because like, nothing's worse for a

907
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: thirty two year old NBA VET in February on a Tuesday.

908
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: Then the six foot nine freaky athlete that's playing super

909
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: hard and like that could be such a pain in

910
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: the ass to deal with, and so like I I think,

911
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: I think, I think I'm a little higher on him

912
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: than you. I'm really high on him as a playoff team.

913
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: Like I think, let me just let's actually just put

914
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: you on the spot real quick. Okay, I think Denver's

915
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: might pick to come out of the West. Who's your

916
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 1: pick to come out of the worst?

917
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 2: Woo, that's it.

918
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 3: I mean I like that take cause I think Jokic

919
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 3: I don't think he as much as people are, like,

920
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 3: he doesn't care about basketball, Like dude cares about basketball.

921
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: It's like it's a little bit of a bit at

922
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: this point that he like is like I don't care

923
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: whatever he Nobody nobody gets that good if they don't live.

924
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: And breathe it, period.

925
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 3: Like exactly, you can get maybe make the NBA if

926
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 3: you're over seven feet, like by not really being that

927
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 3: passionate about it, just based on the fact that there

928
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: just aren't that many people over seven feet in the world.

929
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 3: You can't become a multi time MVP if you're not

930
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 3: obsessed with basketball, It's just not possible.

931
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: So did I that right now? Like Yokiic cares about basketball,

932
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: I think I'd still pick Okay. See.

933
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 3: I just think there it's like such a confluence of

934
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: great things. They got the perfect off season acquisitions.

935
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: I think.

936
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 3: I think Shay is like right at the right age

937
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 3: to kind of crest at that peak. I think they

938
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 3: have a really good coach, and they seem to have

939
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 3: a really great locker room that really gets along. I

940
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: think that the guys they added are guys that are

941
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: very additive to a locker room environment. Like I think

942
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 3: Alex Caruso and Isaiah Hartenstein are two guys who are

943
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 3: going to come in, put their egos aside, get to work,

944
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: do it needs to be done. I think that's super

945
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 3: just pros, just pros who've never been the guy and

946
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 3: have no interest in being the guy, but can play

947
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 3: their role extremely well. And I think that that's something

948
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 3: that's maybe the most underrated thing to have on a

949
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 3: championship team. It's just guys who are like, I'm not

950
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: trying to like work my way up the corporate ladder

951
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 3: of this basketball company, Like I am really happy with

952
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 3: the job that I have and I just want to

953
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 3: do a really good job at it. I've gotten paid

954
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 3: well enough for it, and I think Shae is a superstar.

955
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 3: You know, we talked about he's probably an MVP front runner,

956
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 3: and at the end of the day, when it's not

957
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: cringing time in the playoffs, it's like, do you have

958
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: the guy?

959
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: You know?

960
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 3: And if we both kind of agree that Dallas is

961
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: likely not going to get far enough to even have

962
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 3: Luca be that in that conversation as far as like

963
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 3: who's the guy coming out of the West.

964
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: I think Shaye is going to be the guy.

965
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 3: I know Jokic is the best player in the league,

966
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: but I just think with all the other factors at play,

967
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 3: I would still pick okay See.

968
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to be clear. I have okay See very

969
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: very close behind them. I think it's kind of a

970
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: tricky matchup. It's different now than it was last year.

971
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 1: I would have picked Denver to run through Oklahoma City

972
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: last year.

973
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure too.

974
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: So obvious they're going to go with the heart and

975
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 1: sign on Jokich with Chet and help type of look

976
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: with like lou Dort just being a pain in the

977
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: ass on Jamal Murray, and it's going to be a

978
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: tough matchup. And and I do think that that I

979
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: think a Western Conference finals between Denver and Oksee would

980
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: be an absolute like just a just a legendary series.

981
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just I just keep coming down to

982
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: I think I think people are a little bit wishful

983
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 1: in there thinking about Denver's decline. And I think that

984
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: people are, like we talked about earlier with the GM survey,

985
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: just a little bit quick to want to jump on

986
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: the next new thing. And so I leaned just ever

987
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: so slightly towards Denver. This last question that I had

988
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: for you, by the way, I loved to the point

989
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,479
Speaker 1: you made about Jokic. I was talking with Adam mar

990
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: Is once and he told me that like Jokic like

991
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: went home over the summer and took like a coaching

992
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: clinic online. Yeah, And I was literally I was literally

993
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: sitting there thinking of like, oh, yeah, he's running home

994
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: to go see his horses so that he can go

995
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: sit in a coaching clinic when he because he hates basketball,

996
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: Like of course, the dude loves basketball, Like, yeah, I

997
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: think that's so ridiculous. Or like the video of him

998
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: playing pick up with a bunch of random dudes on

999
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: an outdoor court in survey, I'm like, this dude is

1000
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: clearly obsessed. There's no version of this that that that

1001
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: would be a me to think otherwise.

1002
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: Can I actually real quick off what you said about

1003
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 3: picking Denver, because like, hearing you talk about it, I'm like,

1004
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 3: you're kind of talking me into it. Something that you

1005
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: said that was like really kind of ring true. This

1006
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: is the formula where the Golden State Warriors won the

1007
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 3: championship a couple of years ago, which is like people

1008
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 3: were ready to move on from Staph. People were like,

1009
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 3: what's the next thing, Who's the next team coming out

1010
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 3: of the West, and stuff was like not so fast

1011
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: basically like Steff single handedly was like not so fast

1012
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 3: and kind of willed that into existence.

1013
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 2: And I could definitely see.

1014
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 3: Yokic having a run like that, like a not so

1015
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 3: fast I'm still a Nigali Jokic type run.

1016
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: So I love that and I felt for that too,

1017
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,760
Speaker 1: Like I ended up picking Dallas and that wasn't Conference

1018
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: final series. That was wrong. I learned my lesson because

1019
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 1: I ended up picking them over Boston, but the same.

1020
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 3: They beat the breaks off the Phoenix Suns, who were

1021
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 3: like the best team in basketball with a bullet.

1022
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: All year long. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a para call.

1023
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: It was yeah, yeah, Like that's the thing. It's like, actually,

1024
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: you just put really good role players around one of

1025
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: the best players in the league, and they're just still

1026
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: really difficult to beat four times out of seven. And

1027
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: so I think I think too, Like I'm gonna be

1028
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: keeping an eye on that Yolks jump shot. I was

1029
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: screaming from the mountaintops all year. I'm like, hey, guys,

1030
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: Jokic can't shoot. I don't know what's going on, but

1031
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: like this is different than last year. And every Nuggets

1032
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: fan was like, no, it's not a big deal, it's

1033
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: not a big deal. He's fine, he's fine, he's fine.

1034
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: Ended up being a big thing, and so like, we'll

1035
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: keep an eye on that and we'll see how it goes.

1036
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: But I lean at this point in time, I leaned

1037
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: slightly towards Denver. So one last topic that I wanted

1038
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: to hit sure, and this one I think is fascinating

1039
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: in light of the Karl Anthony Towns trade.

1040
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1041
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: General managers voted that the rule that most needs to

1042
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: change was apron rules slash trade math too restrictive or

1043
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 1: should be indexed to a team's market. Do you agree

1044
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: that we've gotten too restrictive with team building?

1045
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, absolutely, But it's their fault. I mean,

1046
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 3: I think I texted you about this earlier, but I

1047
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 3: was like, it's like the hot dog meme or it's

1048
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 3: like we're all looking for the guy who did this. Like,

1049
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,959
Speaker 3: let's put it very plainly. NBA owners want to spend

1050
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 3: as little money as possible to get the best possible result.

1051
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 2: They are capitalists at their core.

1052
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 3: That's how they got to the position where they could

1053
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: own an NBA team, And they don't want to have.

1054
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: To compete with the Joe Lacobs of the world.

1055
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 3: They want to spend as little money as possible, so

1056
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: they've been looking for a way to put a hard

1057
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 3: cap on salaries and circumvent that for years. This is

1058
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: what they've been after, This is what they've wanted. They

1059
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 3: basically did it. They basically somehow convinced the players' association

1060
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 3: to agree to this, which like CJ. McCollum, you will

1061
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 3: pay for your sins, Like how did this ever happen?

1062
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 3: But like they got the NBA players association to agree

1063
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 3: to essentially a hard cap.

1064
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: That's what it is.

1065
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 3: I mean, you can call it aprons to confuse people

1066
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 3: and make it seem kind of obtuse, but it's just like,

1067
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 3: you're only allowed to spend so much money on your team,

1068
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 3: and there are really punitive outcomes if you go over

1069
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: that that make it basically impossible to get better. So,

1070
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I think they're absolutely correct that it's really

1071
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 3: restrictive and it was a horrible idea, but it was

1072
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 3: their horrible idea, so they're gonna have to deal with

1073
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: the consequences of that.

1074
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's so funny to me because like

1075
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: the as as is the case with so many bad

1076
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: decisions that get made in society, Like a lot of

1077
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 1: times there's like a good kind of like motivator behind

1078
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: the decision, but then the actual tactic that they go

1079
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: about doesn't accomplish that purpose. Like, yeah, you want to

1080
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 1: make it so that these big market teams can't just

1081
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: buy their way to a title, right, that I totally understand.

1082
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: But like, we just saw a small market team in

1083
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: Minnesota trade away a player that was home drafted and

1084
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: homegrown simply even though it did not like here's the thing,

1085
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: Julius Randall and Dante Devencenzo might make the Minnesota Timberwolves better. Like,

1086
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: there is upside. I'm not I'm not keyed in on that,

1087
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: but there is upside there. But they took a massive risk.

1088
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: There's a chance that their team is worse, and I

1089
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,439
Speaker 1: know that their front office is aware of the fact

1090
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: that there is a chance that their team is worse,

1091
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: and they traded away a homegrown, home drafted superstar because

1092
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: they can't afford it. Yeah, that's that a small market

1093
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: team just did that. Yeah, So that is the reality

1094
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: of how this whole process has come to fruition with

1095
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: the behaviors of these teams. Meanwhile, the Boston Celtics are like,

1096
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: we got all these super expensive players. Hell, we'll just

1097
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: sell the team and let some super rich dudes come

1098
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: in here and pay this payroll. So and who knows

1099
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: if it ends up being some you know, one of

1100
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 1: these crazy billionaires that ends up being able to foot

1101
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: the bill for it. But it's like it ended up

1102
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: not solving the problem. And here's the thing, Like this,

1103
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: all they need to do, in my opinion, is take

1104
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: the time to make sure through these rules that teams

1105
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: can afford to keep their own homegrown players exactly. It's

1106
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: really not any more complicated than that to me. So,

1107
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: like there are different things you'd have to account for, right, So,

1108
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: like let's say, for instance, a team makes an aggressive

1109
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: trade for a player that's on the last year of

1110
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: a deal that's discounted where they can match salaries easily,

1111
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: but then they get the players birds right bird rights

1112
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: and they can extend them or whatever. There are different

1113
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 1: You just need to add constraints to where any team

1114
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: can easily go over the cap anytime to sign that

1115
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: they drafted, like that, plain and simple, that that needs

1116
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: to be accounted for. Yeah, Like outside of that, totally

1117
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: understand the restrictions. Like, but like there's no version of

1118
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: this where Oklahoma City should have to just literally get

1119
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: rid of players simply because it's impossible to pay all

1120
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 1: these players that they drafted.

1121
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, or try and get convinced guys to sign for

1122
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 3: less than their worth to stay in a situation that

1123
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 3: they like and stay loyal to a team because you're

1124
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 3: all so disincentivizing players from staying on one team. Because

1125
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 3: you take in Isaiah Hartenstein, for example, who had a

1126
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 3: huge breakout season with the Knicks, wanted to stay with

1127
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 3: the Knicks.

1128
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 2: The Knicks quite frankly, could not afford to keep him.

1129
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City could pay.

1130
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 3: Him more than the Knicks could, even though the Knicks

1131
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 3: wanted to keep them and they would have matched if

1132
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 3: they could have, but they couldn't.

1133
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: Make that make sense.

1134
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 3: And then these are the same people who are complaining like, oh,

1135
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 3: players just hop around, they're not loyal to teams anymore.

1136
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, if there's a ten million dollar

1137
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 3: difference per year, it's pretty prudent to go move to

1138
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 3: Oklahoma City.

1139
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: So I think there's multiple things wrong.

1140
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 3: The main thing that's wrong is what you address, which

1141
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 3: is that there has to be some sort of exception

1142
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 3: for if a player was drafted by an organization or

1143
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 3: if they've spent a certain number of years with an

1144
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 3: organization like that needs to be incentivized.

1145
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 2: They need to be incentivized to keep homegrown players.

1146
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 3: And I also think there should be something in there

1147
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 3: where players have a reason or are.

1148
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 2: Incentivized to stay.

1149
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 3: You know. So, like I think something I've always thought

1150
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 3: would be cool was I know this would be complicated

1151
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 3: because you would have to safeguard players from teams like

1152
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 3: keeping them right up until the point where this would

1153
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 3: happen and then trading them away. So there would have

1154
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 3: to be some sort of safeguard there. But if they

1155
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: could get equity in a team if they spent a

1156
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 3: certain number of years of service with the team. So

1157
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 3: it's like, if you've played for a team for ten

1158
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 3: fifteen years, you should then get equity in the team

1159
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: in addition to your yearly salary.

1160
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 2: And that would.

1161
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 3: Incentivize guys to have careers like Steph Curry or like Dirk. Again,

1162
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 3: you'd have to safeguard against these owners having incentive to

1163
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 3: trade a guy away after fourteen.

1164
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 2: Years of service or after nine years of service.

1165
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, like I've always thought the league would be

1166
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 3: better on both sides if players were incentivized and if

1167
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 3: teams were incentivized to just keep the same guys, because

1168
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 3: a lot of what we get compelled by and a

1169
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 3: lot of the storylines that we love in the postseason

1170
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 3: are battles that happened year after year, and like rivalries,

1171
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 3: and it's really like rivalries don't hit the same if

1172
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 3: the teams look different every year. So but you can't

1173
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 3: expect guys to just stay on teams if a you're

1174
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 3: making it impossible with a hard cap, or be if

1175
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 3: they can make way more money somewhere else, or if

1176
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 3: they're unhappy in their situation.

1177
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: So I think that's something that needs to be addressed.

1178
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: And I appreciate that Adam Silver has been something of

1179
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 3: a maverick and his tenure about trying new things, But

1180
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,919
Speaker 3: I think sometimes the new things he's trying are more

1181
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 3: pie in the sky like flashy things versus like just

1182
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 3: really like nuts and bolts, things that need to be

1183
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 3: fixed to make the league better in ways that are

1184
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 3: maybe a little less glamorous than like an nd season tournament.

1185
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, when we when we talk about like TV

1186
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: ratings and like the long term health of the league,

1187
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: I think one of the most underdiscussed elements of it

1188
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: is regional fan bases. And you know, I sympathize with

1189
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: player empowerment. I totally get it. Like if in corporate America,

1190
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: if you like, if you have a talent in a

1191
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: specific field, generally speaking, you can find a company in

1192
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: a part of the country that you want to work

1193
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: and you can go there. Obviously, though there are certain

1194
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: companies that require you to go to certain places, but

1195
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of flexibility, and it kind of

1196
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: sucks that like that a player that you could reach

1197
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: the peak of your profession and be stuck in you know, Memphis,

1198
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, or something like that. Like I understand that,

1199
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: I sympathize with it. I just think that it's important

1200
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: to have the nuance in the conversation to say there

1201
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: is fallout, and that fallout is so much player and

1202
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: roster turnover that local fan bases aren't as invested as

1203
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: they typically are, and there isn't that like love that

1204
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: builds for the core right, Like the Warriors' fan base

1205
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: is big and ravenous, partially because they've won a lot,

1206
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 1: but also because they've kind of had the same core

1207
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: players forever until you know, until this year exactly. They

1208
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: build like a certain it builds like in like a

1209
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: resonance locally when you have that sort of thing, And

1210
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: like part of me wants to be like, hey, like, guys,

1211
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,439
Speaker 1: if we put a little bit more restriction on player movement, yes,

1212
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: you guys will lose some of that freedom, But I

1213
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: believe in five to ten years the league will benefit

1214
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: with more revenue by virtue of better viewership, which will

1215
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: lead to you guys all making more money and at

1216
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: least kind of have that conversation, and to your point,

1217
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: just add incentives make it incentivize. So like, yeah, you

1218
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: can leave if you want to, but you're gonna make

1219
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: less money. No different than if you choose to work

1220
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: for a specific company to live in a certain place,

1221
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: they may not be able to pay as much as

1222
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: Google does. Whoever, it is, right, And then as far

1223
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: as like the actual CBA rules go, it's complicated. I

1224
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: want to be clear, Like what you and I are

1225
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: talking about is not a thing that can be solved

1226
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: in a two minute conversation, right, Like for instance, like

1227
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: one of the things that I would bring up is like, okay,

1228
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: so you can pay your own draft picks. What about

1229
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City is hoarding damn draft picks? Cause like, at

1230
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: a certain point, a first round pick would become super

1231
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: valuable in a trade. If that first round pick also

1232
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: was a player, I could pay as much as I

1233
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: wanted without any repercussions in the on the salary cap sheet.

1234
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: So like, there's a lot of different loopholes that have

1235
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 1: to be closed, Like it probably would have to be

1236
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: literally only your draft picks, like your team's original draft

1237
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: picks that you can pay. Yeah, that like, like you mentioned,

1238
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 1: want to like, how do you quantify something like Okay,

1239
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: I brought in this role player and he's been here

1240
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: five years, Like, I really prefer to not lose him.

1241
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: He's a fan favorite, you know that sort of thing.

1242
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: Bottom line is, but you can't have is a small

1243
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: market team ditching a hometown superstar that they drafted and

1244
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: is literally like just an integral part of that franchise

1245
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: simply because they can't afford to pay him. Right after

1246
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: they made a Western Conference Finals run and every Wolves

1247
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: fan wanted to see them run it back.

1248
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 3: I mean to be clear, it's broken. It is, It's

1249
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 3: very broken. I would say the elephant in the room

1250
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 3: is that the Rudy Gobert trade is a huge reason

1251
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 3: why they had to make that choice. Then if they

1252
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 3: had I still think that's a bad trade, but it

1253
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 3: was really a question of they had on the books.

1254
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 3: Nasried is going to get paid a lot of money

1255
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 3: and he deserves it. Rudy Gobert is already earning an

1256
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 3: incredible amount of money and Karl Anthony Town's on a

1257
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 3: max contract as well, and they can't afford to keep

1258
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 3: all three, and they could get more for Carl on

1259
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 3: the trade market than they could for Rudy Gobert, and

1260
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 3: that was the bargain that they made. But like if

1261
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: they hadn't traded for Rudy Gobert, who knows where they

1262
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 3: would be. But they definitely could have kept Carl Town.

1263
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 3: So was that's part of it. But yeah, I would say,

1264
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 3: like to me, years of service. I think just rewarding

1265
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 3: that for the team and rewarding it for the player

1266
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 3: fixes a lot of things on both ends. You just

1267
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 3: want to reward teams for being the kind of place

1268
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 3: someone wants to stay, and you want to reward a

1269
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 3: player for being loyal and staying with a team. That

1270
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 3: would benefit everybody greatly. Everybody would make more money, every

1271
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 3: fan would have more fun.

1272
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: It's just so clear.

1273
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 3: And the only thing they've done in the past few

1274
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 3: years is make that harder to do. So it boggles

1275
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 3: the mind. That's the theme of this episode. Mind boddeling

1276
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 3: things exactly.

1277
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: To the point that you made earlier in the show.

1278
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: I would I would imagine the front offices that have

1279
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: lots of people that actually watch the games are going

1280
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: to make a certain amount of you know, high quality

1281
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: decisions that are going to lead to because good basketball

1282
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: players cost money. They just do yeah, and so it's

1283
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: inevitable that like a front office that drafts well is

1284
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: going to have a fat payroll, and that's something that

1285
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: they need to be able to account for. But it

1286
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: is what it is. Claire, tell us about where we

1287
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: can find you and your work.

1288
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 2: You can find me.

1289
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 3: I write for The Guardian about the NBA and I

1290
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 3: also just yell into the void about it on Twitter

1291
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 3: slash x at Claire mpls.

1292
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: So either way, well, I sincerely appreciate you coming on

1293
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: the show today. That was fun, lots of interesting stuff

1294
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: to get to with the GM survey. Guys, that's all

1295
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: we have for today. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

1296
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: We'll be back for one more week of preseason basketball

1297
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: before we get into the real thing. I will see

1298
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: you guys on Monday.

1299
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: The volume.

1300
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 3: What's Up?

1301
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: Guys. As always, I appreciate you for listening to and

1302
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: supporting hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for

1303
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: us if you guys would take a second and leave

1304
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: a rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you

1305
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: guys supporting us, but if you could take a minute

1306
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: to do that, I'd really appreciate it.