1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple, Coarclay, and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: Talks between the US and Ukraine are helping to advance 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: oil prices this morning. 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 3: Let's get some more insight now on this. 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: Another commodity moves with Miami Mike mcgloone, Senior Commodity Strategies, 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: a Bloomberg Intelligence located in Miami Beach. 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 3: Mike, talk to us about just I'm seeing. 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: You know, w chech crude oil fifty eight dollars of 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: barrets up a buck. 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 3: But this is really really low price for oil. 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: Are good friends in the oil patch in Odessa and Midland, Texas? 16 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 3: They are not happy, No. 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 4: They aren't, and unfortunately still producing more oil now that 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 4: is on decline. That should be it's responsive elasticity to 19 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 4: lower prices. 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 5: But what's happened in Russia Ukraine? 21 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 4: If there's dayton, if there's significant peace, the first thing 22 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 4: you should expect to go down is potentially gold and 23 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 4: natural gas natural gas. 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 5: Prices because we'll be bringing on more of that supply. 25 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 4: So it's not really a good reason unless there's some 26 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 4: kind of curtailment of supply for prices to go up. 27 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 5: It's an overall bear market. 28 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 4: But if you look over next year, I think the 29 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 4: range and crudel can be from around forty to seventy. 30 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 4: Now that's a normal first standard deviation move safely end 31 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 4: the year between fifty five and sixty. 32 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 5: But the bottom line, pol is the. 33 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 4: Average cost of production to break even costs in this 34 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 4: countries around. 35 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 5: Fifty five, so they can do pretty well. 36 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 4: In the point is you basically have to get below 37 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 4: those levels for an elongated period to offset these excesses 38 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 4: of global supply versus demand. So I'm still bears CRUDEIL, 39 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 4: but I wouldn't be surprised we'd get it, you know, 40 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 4: I think traders are looking for bounces to sell. 41 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 6: Okay, let's talk about where perhaps geopolitical anxiety has fed 42 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 6: into a rush to Haven's boy dof you see it 43 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 6: in the run up in gold in well, we're having 44 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 6: a little bit of is it profit taking happening right now? 45 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 7: Mike? 46 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 8: Where do you point. 47 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 6: Us towards in terms of buying the dips or selling 48 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 6: where we're at. I. 49 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 5: Caroline, I love how you went there. 50 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 4: The phrase that I keep thinking of is you're supposed 51 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 4: to be selling when you're they're yelling. Particular in silver, 52 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 4: silver is one of the most over blought commodities on 53 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 4: the planet. You have to go back to nineteen seventy 54 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 4: nine to get a similar stretch. Almost two times versus 55 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 4: is fifty week moving average, and that peak we put 56 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 4: in that we closed at thirty two dollars and thirty 57 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,839 Speaker 4: two cents that year. The next year that we close 58 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 4: above that level was this year. So that's what happens 59 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 4: when you get this stretch. So I'm very concerned about 60 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 4: things like silver. Yeah, it could get to one hundred, 61 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 4: but it typically will drop towards fifty. That's a full 62 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 4: normal range for next year. It's what I expect. It's 63 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 4: the number one metal expect to be down next year 64 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 4: because it's a short squeeze. Now, now gold's a little 65 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 4: different story, but gold's expensive too, So the whole precious 66 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 4: metals to market market looks to me like, yes, it's 67 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 4: been great for those of us who have been bullish forever, 68 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 4: but it never hurts, it takes and profits, and right 69 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 4: now I think we're seeing some of that. 70 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 2: Mike, twenty twenty six. What's kind of the play in 71 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: your world here? You're twenty twenty six out of look 72 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: in global commodities? Am I buying pork bellies or where 73 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: am I going? 74 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 5: Yeah? 75 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 4: I love how you always go to pork bellies plot 76 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: because I don't really try. I don't know much about 77 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 4: wyllies just to That's why you need to trip me off. 78 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 5: That's important. 79 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 4: The number one thing I'm worried about is this continued 80 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 4: deflation in the elastic commodities, the grains, energy, crude oil, 81 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 4: natural gas. 82 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 5: I fully expect those to continue. 83 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 4: So levels I'm looking for is crude oil to get 84 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 4: to their forty natural gas to get in there too. 85 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 4: That's not profound, It's what it's always happened. Corn corn 86 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 4: to dropped down like three dollars and fifty cents. 87 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 5: Those are break even costs. 88 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 4: The key thing I'm worried about is this signals by 89 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 4: having gold having its best year ever versus crude oil 90 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 4: down that exceeded the extremely head in two thousand and eight, 91 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 4: I'm really worried about this stock market problem. So right now, 92 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 4: for industrumentals to go up, the stock market basically has 93 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 4: to go up. But when here's a key thing I 94 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 4: like to end with, we just never had this type 95 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 4: of high velocity rally in gold and silver and precious 96 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 4: metals with stock market volatilely this low. So typically it 97 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: means stock market volatile will go up next year and 98 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 4: that might be all that matters. 99 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 8: What about digital gold like going down? 100 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 5: It's still bear market. We peaked. I think we're gonna 101 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 5: look at bitcoin. Likely looked at silver in nineteen seventy nine. 102 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 5: This year it's a pretty significant peak. I think bitcoin's 103 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 5: more like the head towards fifty. 104 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 4: That's a normal correction, particularly if the stock market goes 105 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 4: down and the whole rest of the space to continue 106 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 4: that bear market. So good examples of Bloomberg Galaxy Crypto 107 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 4: index is down about twenty percent this year. 108 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 5: It's a key reversal. Was up about twenty percent this year. 109 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 5: It looks just like this US stock market did in 110 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 5: nineteen twenty nine. The difference is there's an unlimited supply 111 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 5: of cryptocurrencies. There's only one in two thousand and nine 112 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 5: that was Bigcoin. 113 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 7: Stay with us. 114 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 115 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligen in the podcast Catch 116 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: us Live weekdays at ten am. He's done on Applecarplay 117 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on 118 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us Live 119 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: on YouTube twenty five. 120 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 6: In many ways was not discerning. There were record highs, 121 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 6: there were sudden reversals, there was years of conviction trades, 122 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 6: there was costly comebacks, and it's all been written down 123 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 6: by our wonderful colleagues at Bloomberg News, and we can 124 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 6: sit down with one of them, Michael Reagan. Here's Bloomberg 125 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 6: Managing editor for US Equities, who drills into the AI 126 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 6: trade and whether now it's time for the big short. 127 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 6: We all know what that word play is pointing towards 128 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 6: and one Michael Berry. How did he really pour cold 129 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 6: water on some of the big AI hag. 130 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 9: Yeah, it was really interesting. I mean, you know, first, 131 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 9: let's you know, to be fair, it was a great 132 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 9: year to own AI SoC you know, as we get 133 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 9: to the end of the year in videos up forty percent, 134 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 9: pollunteers up one hundred and forty I think, but Burry 135 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 9: really did throw some cold water on the trade in 136 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 9: a very high profile matter in early November when he 137 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 9: disclosed put positions in Palenteer and in Vidia in his 138 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 9: hedgephund see on asset management. You know, since actually closed 139 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 9: the fund, but it really sort of landed like a 140 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 9: thud in the market. You know, both those stocks and 141 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 9: the NASDAC were really setting record high after record high. 142 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 9: You know, again, they're still going to have go into 143 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 9: the books as very good years for both stocks, but 144 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 9: they they haven't set a new high since then. 145 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 7: They both took took a big dip. 146 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 9: The Nasdaq hasn't set a new high since he disclosed 147 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 9: these puts. So to me it was like, you know, 148 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 9: he really sort of hit a raw nerve I think 149 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 9: in what people's concerns were about the AI trade that 150 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 9: you know, yes, there's a lot of promise there, much 151 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 9: like the dot com era, but the winners and losers, 152 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 9: you know, it's a. 153 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 7: Long way from knowing who they will all be. 154 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 9: I mean, obviously in Nvidia has a good case to 155 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 9: be you know, one of the main winners. So so 156 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 9: that was one of you know, to us, we love 157 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 9: writing about a good trarian call, especially one that sort 158 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 9: of hits the top of the market like that. 159 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 7: So that was one of our big trans of the year. 160 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 5: Mike. 161 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 2: There's a lot of people in this market that don't 162 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: recall a market where Tech was. 163 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: Not leading this. 164 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: That's true, I mean, and I'm quite frankly, I'm not 165 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: sure if you're telling me that Tech's not going to 166 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: be a driver in twenty twenty six. 167 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 3: You know, you got to be cautious there, if that's 168 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: kind of your belief. 169 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, And I wouldn't believe me. I would not 170 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 9: be the one to say that. Yeah, to buck with 171 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 9: the trend. 172 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: And I heard that from the street, because the street's 173 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: still very bold. 174 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I think you know, what we've seen in 175 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 9: the last couple of months is sort of this a 176 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 9: little bit of a rotation into some of the other, 177 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 9: you know, forgotten sectors, some of the more cyclical sectors. 178 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 9: And you know, obviously Tech will go into the books 179 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 9: as among the best gains of the year. 180 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 7: You're totally right, most years they are. 181 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 9: You know, you look at the NASDAQ one hundreds performance 182 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 9: versus the S and P, and it's just on any 183 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 9: given time frame, it's you know, I mean, that is 184 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 9: our economy, right, that's where the growth is, is that 185 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 9: that's where all the excitement is. You know, I'm not 186 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 9: sure anyone expects, you know, a big correction in tech stocks. 187 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 9: I think Alex has written about, you know, a lot 188 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 9: of strategies though, are wondering if this rotation into other 189 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 9: sort of least less loved pockets of the market could 190 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 9: continue next year. 191 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 6: Though, And at the moment, speaking to Mark how Marx's anxiety, 192 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 6: everyone seems to be one side of this trade and 193 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 6: the S and P five hundred is going to go higher, 194 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 6: but towards us through some of It's just such a 195 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 6: brilliant story that you've brought to us talking about all 196 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 6: the ways in which twenty twenty five was defined by 197 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 6: certain trades. 198 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 8: Crypto was another huge one, and if. 199 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 6: You look at me at Bitcoin, it's down on the year. 200 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 6: You could have booked some enormous gains if you'd sold 201 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 6: at the right time. Also, if you're training some of 202 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 6: these mean coins, particularly the Trump related ones, you've basically 203 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 6: lost endying gains if you'd held on to Yes. 204 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 7: Yes, mind you, these are the big trades of the year. 205 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 9: Not necessarily all winners, right, but they were sort of 206 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 9: the trades that captivated, defining the defining. 207 00:08:59,320 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 7: Trades of the year. 208 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 9: And here President Trump came in promising to be the 209 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 9: crypto president, you know, basically getting rid of all the 210 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 9: regulatory actions against the major crypto players, pardoning a bunch 211 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 9: of people who were in jail for crypto, launching his 212 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 9: own mean coins, you know, the Trump coin and the 213 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 9: Milania coin. 214 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 5: I think that. 215 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 9: Was pretty dramatically surprising to a lot of people to 216 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 9: think with the President the full power of the White 217 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 9: House behind digital assets that we wouldn't see just this 218 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 9: blockbuster year. But it, you know, it just goes to 219 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 9: show you markets are designed to surprise you and upset you. 220 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 9: And you know, Trump's mean coin had a huge rally 221 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 9: at the beginning. 222 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 7: It's down something like eighty some percent. 223 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 9: Now Malania is the same thing, down like I think 224 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 9: ninety nine percent. So you know, you don't need me 225 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 9: to tell you that crypto is risky. But you know 226 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 9: there's there's exhibit A. 227 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 3: Stay with us more from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 228 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 229 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android 230 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App, Listen on demand wherever 231 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 232 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: Just turn out to the Big Takes story. We love 233 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: the Big Takes stories that come out every day from 234 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News. Deeply sourced, just great, fascinating stories, really well done. 235 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: This one goes to Wall Street's balance of powers shifting. 236 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: Big banks are roaring back as as regulation eases, lending 237 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 2: surges and private credit giants lose some of their luster. 238 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: There Bloomber's Katherine Chiglinsky helps lead our investing coverage. She 239 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: is a pride of the Wayman Mary University, but she 240 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: leads our coverage on all that stuff and investing in banks. 241 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: She joins us for more talk to us about kind 242 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: of the big banks. Like when I graduated from business school, 243 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: went to the Chase Manhattan Bank, we did leverage lending, 244 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: we made a fortune, and to see private private credit 245 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: take some of that business away, it. 246 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: Really surprised me. Over the last fifteen years or so, 247 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 3: how's that balance of power these days? 248 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 8: Well, it was huge. 249 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 10: I mean it was a huge shift to see all 250 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 10: these private credit, private equity firms sort of really taking 251 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 10: all this market share away from the banks. As the banks, 252 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 10: you know, post financial crisis, we're sort of limited by 253 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 10: regulations and also we're arguably trying to be a lot 254 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 10: you know, safer overall. 255 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 8: But now we're actually seeing it change a little bit. 256 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 10: And I'm not trying to say, you know, banks are 257 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 10: going hog wild on everything, but like they've been involved 258 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 10: in a lot of the leverage loan deals this year, 259 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,239 Speaker 10: We've seen them in some of the major acquisition financing. 260 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 10: And it's been a good year for the banks. I mean, 261 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 10: regulations have pulled back. JP Morgan's on track to have 262 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 10: its highest annual profit, so it's actually been a pretty 263 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 10: good time now to be a bank. Yeah, the balance 264 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 10: is really shifted. 265 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 6: It's revenge of the banks, is how Mike Mayo, well 266 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 6: known analyst Bank panast Over at Wells Fargo put it. 267 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 6: These non banks, though, do they in return perform less, 268 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 6: well have less of the pie? How does ultimately and 269 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 6: distribute itself? Because so just the shist scale of non 270 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 6: non usual assets so well turn into acets has just 271 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 6: grown exponentially to like sixteen trillion. 272 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 8: Grown exponentially. 273 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 10: So obviously I still think those firms will be fine overall, 274 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 10: but you're really seeing the stock price talk a little bit, 275 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 10: so like the bank stock prices are up quite a bit. 276 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 10: I mean, City Group we had their price to book 277 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 10: ratio climb above one percent for all the time in 278 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 10: a very long time. Like, I think you're starting to 279 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 10: see them sort of get their mojo back a little 280 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 10: bit and really find the groove and the businesses that 281 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 10: they're you know, digging deeper into investment, banking, trading, et cetera. 282 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 8: But I also think you're. 283 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 10: Seeing you know, I think you'll still see these credit 284 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 10: private credit firms you know, work really hard and like 285 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 10: you know, find different deals. 286 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 8: But I do think it's more challenging. 287 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 10: I mean we've had that whole you know. I feel 288 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 10: like this year it was the credit cockroach debate. Yeah, 289 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 10: that really rained for a long time and involved some 290 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 10: of the banks were involved in some of those cockroaches, 291 00:12:58,880 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 10: like first brands. 292 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 8: You know, I think there is. 293 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 10: This growing sense that like, maybe we should be a 294 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 10: little more, we should scrutinize a little bit more of 295 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 10: these deals. And obviously the alternative asset managers got so 296 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 10: big in the private credit space for so long that 297 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 10: I think there's a little bit more of a scrutinizing 298 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 10: eye on those well. 299 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: I mean, even in a Warner Brothers Discovery deal, there's 300 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 2: a lot of big banks bridge loans bring back terms 301 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: we haven't heard in a while. 302 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 3: You know, a bridge loan which will be refinanced with 303 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: a you know, a bond deal or something like that. 304 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: Some of the traditional MNA financing seems to be coming back. 305 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: But these private credit folks, they're not going away because 306 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: the money continues to flow into that asset. 307 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 9: Last. 308 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 8: Yeah, the money continues to flow. 309 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 10: And I think, you know, I think every competitor of 310 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 10: a private credit firm really understands that, you know, they're 311 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 10: not going away, Like you should be very careful. 312 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 8: You are. 313 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 10: You know, if you're a bank for these financing deals, 314 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 10: you're going up against a lot. I mean, yeah, you 315 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 10: look at the Warner Brothers situation. I mean, the amount 316 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 10: of firms that were involved in each of those bids. 317 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 10: It's kind of crazy to say, you know, it was banks, 318 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 10: but it was also private cat at firms and alternative 319 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 10: asset managers. 320 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 5: Stay with us. 321 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 322 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us Live 323 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Otto 324 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App, Listen on demand wherever you 325 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 326 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 6: I want to know who out there of our listeners 327 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 6: and viewers was gifted an AI hardware product. Now many 328 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 6: people already wear perhaps an AI ring or an or ring, 329 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 6: but how is it starting to integrate more within your life? 330 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 8: What options are. 331 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 6: There at the moment, we're going to have a discussion 332 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 6: about AI wearables, the promise and the hype. Is it 333 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 6: living up to reality? We can ask Sandbar's CEO about 334 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 6: his new smart ring because it's certainly on pre order already. 335 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 6: The stream mena Famy is with us joining us, and look, 336 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 6: you're talking about the stream ring in particular, that lives 337 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 6: beyond the well your screen. More broadly, this is all 338 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 6: about audio, all about speaking to your ring. Just talk 339 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 6: us first through what exactly the stream ring is. 340 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 5: Absolutely, thanks so much for having me. 341 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 11: So stream has two parts. There's the stream app, which 342 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 11: is kind of like a conversational notes app that will 343 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 11: take notes silently, that will respond to questions in a 344 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 11: voice that sounds a bit like your own, and you 345 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 11: primarily interact with it using the stream ring. So it's 346 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 11: this little device here with a touchpad on the side 347 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 11: and a mic on top, and you just hold speak 348 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 11: into it and release and it will vibrate to let 349 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 11: you know that it heard you, and if you have 350 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 11: earbuds in you can then hear a response. 351 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: I'm seeing people wearing all kinds of rings here, So 352 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: it's obviously that the market is ready for this type 353 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: of hardware. Here, what we need, what problem does it solve? 354 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: What does it really do for the user here? What 355 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: are you trying to capture? 356 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 11: Definitely? So Sandbar is based in New York City, and 357 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 11: while on the go often ideas will pop up where 358 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 11: you'll want to take a note of something for later, 359 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 11: or you'll want to get a little bit of information 360 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 11: like hey, tell me what's new in the markets today, 361 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 11: and have that beam straight into your headphones while you're 362 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 11: on your way into work. And being able to be 363 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 11: in the moment and tap into those instances of flow 364 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 11: without stopping and pulling out your phone makes a big 365 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 11: difference to actually performing that interaction versus it getting lost 366 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 11: in the moment. 367 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 6: Davely All, Bloomberg opinion columnist, had the joy of using 368 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 6: your ring and I did as well. I've played with 369 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 6: it a little bit already, and he sort of described 370 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 6: how it basically is not un drawing unwanted attention, and 371 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 6: also key doesn't make others feel uncomfortable. For me, I'm 372 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 6: an avid cyclist, Paul, and I get to in from 373 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 6: the office with that. The amount of times I've wanted 374 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 6: Siri to just answer something about biking docs or about 375 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 6: where I'm doing, or the meeting I'm about to go to, 376 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 6: and it just doesn't work. 377 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 8: And I'm interested, meaning from. 378 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 6: Your perspective, how much, given it's coming out I think 379 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 6: in the summer of twenty twenty six, how much is 380 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 6: this predicated on the fact that Apple doesn't get his 381 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 6: act together. 382 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 11: I think that there's a lot of opportunity for new 383 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 11: companies to demonstrate new products that are focused on I guess, 384 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 11: very specific applications to start that hopefully grow over time. 385 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 11: A big limitation of existing AI products, especially those built 386 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 11: into devices, is they'll give you a single response to 387 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 11: a single query. But if I want to do a 388 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 11: really fast back and forth, not only do I need 389 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 11: great hardware, but I also need great software that's capable 390 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 11: of a thoughtful response that's really high intelligence, that's emotionally aware, 391 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 11: and solving all of those difficult personality challenges and hardware 392 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 11: challenges is something we're excited to dedicate ourselves to and 393 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 11: something we really haven't seen anyone do before. 394 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 2: Some people with just devices in general, me to have 395 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: a concern of it's always listening to me, and I'm 396 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: not sure I like that from a security perspective. 397 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 11: Address that issue absolutely so at Sandbar, we love thinking 398 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 11: of the bar test, which is what would you wear 399 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 11: at a bar and feel comfortable wearing and the people 400 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 11: around you it also feel comfortable wearing. So the really 401 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 11: nice thing about the stream ring is it only listens 402 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 11: when this touch pad is held, and the mic only 403 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 11: picks up basically what's right in front of it, So 404 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 11: you really have to whisper into it. 405 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 7: And that's great if you're on the subway. 406 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 11: And it's really loud and you want to take a note, 407 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 11: or that's great if you're walking on the street or 408 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 11: you're driving and you don't want to disturb the people 409 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 11: around you and mention something quietly. But it's really not 410 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 11: designed for up what's around you or recording everything. 411 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 6: What's so interesting is about where You've come from and 412 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 6: a lot of work academically done, but also you were 413 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 6: inside Meta. Meta bought your previous startup Control Labs, and 414 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 6: in many ways, Meta's gone all in on the future 415 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 6: of eyewear and the idea that you can have these 416 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 6: ray bands that will interact with your surroundings visually and 417 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 6: be able to talk to you as well. People have 418 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 6: loved that product with you and the focus on audio. 419 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 6: What I'm really interested in is that it speaks to 420 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 6: you in your own voice, or like your voice. Why 421 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 6: do people like that rather than an unfamiliar voice that 422 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 6: perhaps they currently are using, whether it's a Google Home 423 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 6: or an Amazon Alexa or indeed with Siri definitely so. 424 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 11: Our core design philosophy is that we want stream to 425 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 11: feel like an extension of your own thinking. And if 426 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 11: we look at how the public and consumers are beginning 427 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 11: to view AI, people are I think excited by the 428 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 11: benefits that it brings, but they're also nervous about whether 429 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 11: AI will replace their relationships or replace their jobs. And 430 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 11: something nice about this extension framing is that the AI 431 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 11: is always in your control. It only listens when you want. 432 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 11: You know, you can tap to interrupt it. Really quickly. 433 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 11: It responds when you ask things of it, and that 434 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 11: changes the relationship from one of replacement to one of 435 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 11: extending your own ability to think and answer questions. And remember, 436 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 11: and when we were testing out different voices, one day 437 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 11: my co founder Careoc suggest said, well, hey, why don't 438 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 11: we just try a version of your own voice? And 439 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 11: initially it was a bit strange, but quite quickly it 440 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 11: feels much more natural than anything we had tried before, 441 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 11: and so that became a surprising, really nice finish to 442 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 11: that design philosophy. 443 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: Mean it to what extent is AI in your here 444 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: and where do you think it can take you? As 445 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 2: more and more people get more and more comfortable in 446 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 2: trusting some functionality to AI. 447 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 11: Absolutely, I mean basically none of this product would be 448 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 11: possible without all of the incredible advancements and models. Models 449 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 11: handle creating notes and organizing them and providing the response 450 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 11: and creating memories that your stream can draw on to 451 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 11: continue conversations over time, and as those models get more 452 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 11: intelligent and more useful, you could imagine this is becoming 453 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 11: a portal to all kinds of things you're querying off 454 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 11: your prepping, So you know, you could imagine saying, hey, 455 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 11: give me a podcast of all of the things I 456 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 11: have to get done today, and by the way, can 457 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 11: you draft some of those so they're ready at my 458 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 11: computer when I get to work, and then you sit 459 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 11: down and things are basically already there for you. And 460 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 11: those kinds of deeper action and sequential processing will require 461 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 11: advancements beyond what we have today, but that'll just add 462 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 11: to the experience over time. 463 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 6: I'm not thinking it's two hundred and forty nine dollars, 464 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 6: is that the asking price? 465 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 11: That's right, two forty nine for the silver and then 466 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 11: it'll be two ninety nine for gold. 467 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 6: Well, I've got so I'm already wearing an Ora ring 468 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 6: and I've already got some rings on some other things, 469 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 6: luckily thanks to my husband and sister. And they're like, so, 470 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 6: is your competition Aura and the health device or do 471 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 6: you encompass. 472 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 8: That space too. 473 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 6: Is your competition really what some Altman's now building with 474 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 6: Johnny Ive and the idea of future AI hardware. 475 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 11: It's a good question, and I think that what we're 476 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 11: offering today is pretty different than anything that exists so far. 477 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 11: It's really an input focused wearable device that's centered around 478 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 11: providing you control, and so I think that if you're 479 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 11: looking for that kind of an experience, hopefully we're providing 480 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 11: something special in the market. And in the same way 481 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 11: that I continue to, you know, use my iPhone and 482 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 11: I continue to use a lap top, we hope that 483 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 11: other devices will coexist with their own philosophies of how 484 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 11: humans and technology can relate. 485 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 486 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each 487 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 488 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 489 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 490 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal.